#1716 Bolus 4 - Christmas Snacks

Summary

Juicebox Podcast: Episode #1716 “Bolus 4 – Christmas Snacks”

Host: Scott Benner
Guest: Jenny Smith
Air Date: December 22, 2025

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Episode Overview

Scott Benner and recurring cohost Jenny Smith tackle the chaos of Christmas snacking with type 1 diabetes, focusing on practical, real-world strategies for bolusing (dosing insulin) for a variety of classic holiday treats. This approachable and unscripted episode uses the “Meal BOLT” method (Measure, Evaluate, Add, Layer, Build, Offset, Look, Tweak) as a mental roadmap—even if not every step is explicitly discussed for each food. The conversation blends humor, nostalgia, and deep insight, helping listeners confidently handle festive foods without unnecessary stress or guilt.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The "Meal BOLT" Framework (00:41, Recap at 41:00)

• Scott and Jenny keep the Meal BOLT acronym in mind as their loose way to think about each food:
  • Measure: Figure out carb, fat, protein, glycemic impact.
  • Evaluate: Assess your blood sugar, insulin on board, upcoming activity, sickness, stress, etc.
  • Add: Base insulin calculation (carbs ÷ carb ratio).
  • Layer: Correction for current glucose or anticipated rise.
  • Build: Decide on bolus shape—pre-bolus, extended, combo bolus.
  • Offset: Time your insulin intentionally.
  • Look and Tweak: Watch CGM data, adjust for next time.
• Scott (41:07): “I probably don’t need Scott and Jenny to talk about every food on the planet. I could probably figure this out on my own.”

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2. Christmas Snacks: Deep Dive by Food

A. Puppy Chow / Muddy Buddies (03:17)

• What is Puppy Chow?
  • Midwest staple: Crispix or Rice Chex cereal, peanut butter, chocolate, covered in powdered sugar.
  • “It’s all sugar. … Start with Crispix, peanut butter and chocolate, then roll in powdered sugar.” – Jenny (03:28)
• Nutritional Breakdown:
  • For full batch: 21g fiber, 302g carbs, 115g fat, 56g protein.
  • Cut in 16 bars: ~31g carbs per piece (but served loose, not in bars).
• Bolusing Challenge:
  • Estimating portions is tough; best guess is a “woman’s palm-sized scoop” ≈ one bar (07:05).
  • Jenny: “Each coated cereal square is about 1.4 to 1.9 carbs.” (09:10)
  • Strategy: Pre-bolus hard! Immediate sugar spike, with delayed “fat tail” from peanut butter and fat.
  • Scott (09:33): "You hear three beeps, your Dexcom is screaming in pain—have some Puppy Chow! Everything will be fine.”
  • Plan for a fast initial spike, then lingering high due to delayed digestion of fat.

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B. Chocolate Fudge (10:29)

• Ingredients: Mainly sugar, cocoa, butter; sometimes includes marshmallow fluff.
• 1-inch square: 70-100 cals, 14g sugar, 2-4g fat, ~13g protein (likely an error; real fudge is mostly carbs).
• Jenny: “It’s packed. …My favorite was always her peanut butter fudge.” (11:02)
• Bolusing: Hits fast due to sugar, small fat delay. Pre-bolus, but watch for prolonged elevated sugars if eaten after heavy/fatty meals.

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C. Divinity (11:48)

• An old-fashioned, marshmallowy, nougat-like candy, made mostly from sugar and corn syrup.
• One piece (out of 24): 26.5g carbs, 137 cals, ~no protein, little fat (14:27).
• Jenny (14:37): “You’re bolusing like you’re bolusing for the sugar bowl, really. 100% all up front, real like…”
• Use: Great for fixing a low—dangerous at other times!

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D. Gingerbread Cookies (20:28)

• One medium (uniced): 160 cals, 27g carbs, 6g fat.
• Jenny notes general cookie principle: “A cookie is a cookie is a cookie… usually about 25 to 30 grams of carb (per palm-sized serving).” (21:21)
• Bolus up front for quick hit; portion control important due to tendency to ignore snacking quantities.

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E. Eggnog (24:04)

• Homemade: 250 cals/cup, 20g carbs, 19g sugar, 15g fat, 9g protein.
• Jenny: “It’s liquid…it’s going to hit pretty fast. Liquids usually hit a little faster in terms of the carbs. I would say you still need a pre-bolus, but then in the aftermath, really need to pay attention for the fat and protein hit.” (25:32)
• Alcohol content (if any) does not significantly change carb/fat burden.

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F. Fruitcake (26:26)

• Heavy hitter: 325 cals/slice, 56g carbs, 32g sugar, high fat.
• Scott: “That’s gonna hit you like a truck. You might wanna bolus yesterday for that.” (26:46)
• Loaded with candied fruit and molasses for double whammy.

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G. Potato Latkes (27:44)

• Made with russet potatoes, matzo meal, onions, fried in oil.
• Raw mixture per serving: ~12g carbs, adds about 3-8g fat during frying (if properly cooked at high temp).
• Jenny: “A tablespoon of oil is around 10 grams of fat.” (28:17)
• Insight: If fried at lower temps, absorbs more oil—so watch fat estimates.

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H. Chocolate Babka (30:38)

• “Seinfeld” reference! (31:09)
• 1 slice: 250-280 cals, 35g carbs, 12g fat.
• Scott: “All this stuff is really the same, isn’t it? The way you’re going to bolus for it…get ahead, stay ahead. Once you lose the high ground, you’re in trouble…Look for lows at the end of the day.” (32:04)

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I. Candy Canes (33:14)

• Pure sugar: 14g carbs, 50-60 cals per standard cane, zero fat/protein.
• Commercial ones use additives like titanium dioxide for that bright white color (explained in detail at 36:37).
• Jenny: “Please let me have a low blood sugar…” (35:47)
• Fun Fact: Jenny worked in a traditional candy shop making candy canes and ribbon candy—shares nostalgia of the handmade process and why industrial candy canes taste chewier (38:11).

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3. General Strategies & Holiday Advice

• All featured treats (puppy chow, fudge, divinity, cookies, eggnog, fruitcake, babka, latkes, candy canes) share:
  • High sugar, moderate to high fat profiles → risk for rapid spikes, then delayed “fat tails.”
  • Portion estimation is tough, especially with snack mixes.
  • Pre-bolus is crucial: Get insulin working BEFORE the rapid carbs hit. Anticipate need for follow-up action as fat/protein slows digestion.
  • Jenny: “With the ease of … looking up information … I use this strategy, which has really improved teaching people because the resources are right at your fingertips.” (32:21)
• Jenny recommends using AI tools (ChatGPT, Gemini) to break down recipe nutrition and get realistic carb counts (41:07).
• Don’t let carb-counting fear kill the joy: You can “figure it out,” and each time you try, you’ll get better.
• Family & nostalgia matter—enjoy the food, adjust your insulin boldly, but knowledgeably.
• Holiday curveballs: Most people under-estimate carbs, leading to mismatch and persistent highs (18:36).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Portioning Puppy Chow:
  Jenny (07:05): “If you’re trying to envision a scoop or a handful out of a bowl, you could say probably whatever fits in the palm of a woman size adult hand would be approximate to what you’d get in one of these bars.”

• On Snack Food Realities:
  Scott (09:33): “You hear three beeps, your Dexcom is screaming in pain—have some Puppy Chow! Everything will be fine.”

• Holiday Foods & Memory:
  Jenny (21:58): “You eat the way you were taught… to some degree. I mean, I have definitely adjusted things, especially with the education I have and the information I have at hand. But I learned to eat a balanced plate to begin with.”

• The Pot Roast Story:
  Scott (22:42): “…and the old lady, she thinks and thinks and thinks. She goes, oh, I know—I had a very short pan. And I just think that a lot of things happen for those reasons.”

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• 00:41 – Intro to Meal BOLT strategy
• 03:17 – Discussion of Puppy Chow/Muddy Buddies and midwestern snacks
• 10:29 – Chocolate fudge & Divinity: recipe review, bolus implications, nostalgia
• 20:28 – Gingerbread and Christmas cookies: general cookie bolusing
• 24:04 – Eggnog and bolusing for high-fat, high-carb holiday drinks
• 26:26 – Fruitcake and other heavy desserts
• 27:44 – Potato latkes & the science of fried holiday foods
• 30:38 – Chocolate Babka, Seinfeld, and bolus patterns for rich, bready desserts
• 33:14 – Candy canes: pure sugar, food additives, and a behind-the-scenes look at traditional candy making
• 41:00 – Recap of using technology (AI chatbots, nutrition trackers) to assess foods on the fly

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Tone & Takeaways

The episode is friendly, encouraging, genuinely funny, and grounded in lived experience. Scott and Jenny blend practical know-how with family stories and pop culture, helping demystify the process of eating—and enjoying—Christmas treats as someone living with type 1 diabetes.

Key Message:
Don’t let the fear of food rob you of joy this season. With some pre-bolus planning, realistic carb estimation (use tech!), and a willingness to “tweak for next time,” enjoying holiday snacks isn’t just possible—it’s part of living boldly with insulin.

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For detailed “Meal BOLT” steps, visit juiceboxpodcast.com/meal-bolt.
For the Thanksgiving bolus episode (turkey, potatoes, stuffing), check out episode #1692.

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Transcript

[A]

Hello friends. Welcome to the Juice Box Podcast. Happy holidays to everyone juggling carbs, cookies and the chaos of this season. In every episode of Bolas4, Jenny Smith and I are going to take a few minutes to talk through how to Bolus four For a single item of food. Jenny and I are going to follow a little bit of a roadmap called Meal Bolt. Measure the meal, evaluate yourself, add the base units, layer a correction, build the bolus shape, offset the timing, look at the CGM tweak for next time. Having said that, these episodes are going to be very conversational and not incredibly technical. We want you to hear how we think about it before, but we also would like you to know that this is kind of the pathway we're considering while we're talking about it. So while you might not hear us say every letter of Meal Bolt in every episode, we will be thinking about it while we're talking. If you want to learn more, go to juiceboxpodcast.com forward/meal bolt. But for now, we'll find out how to bolus for today's subject. While you're listening, please remember that nothing you hear on the Juice Box Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise. Always consult a physician before making any changes to your healthcare plan or becoming bold with insulin. This episode of the Juice Box Podcast is sponsored by the Contour Next Gen Blood Glucose Meter. Learn more and get started today [e-mail] Juicebox Today's episode is also sponsored by Medtronic Diabetes, who is making life with diabetes easier with the MiniMed 780G system and their new sensor options, which include the Instinct sensor made by Abbott. Would you like to unleash the full potential of the MiniMed 780G system? You can do that at my link medtronicdiabetes.com juicebox Jennifer Christmas is coming. The goose is getting fat. Pleased to put a penny in the old man's hat. We are going to Talk today on Bolas4.

[B]

Where's he going to get his penny from?

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

They don't make pennies anymore.

[A]

Oh, that's right. They stopped making pennies. I got to change that whole thing then I guess Christmas is coming.

[B]

Put a nickel.

[A]

I mean, I don't know. How about a bitcoin? Sit a bitcoin in your hat.

[B]

A bitcoin.

[A]

Oh, you couldn't even do that. You couldn't even do it. It's not a real thing.

[B]

A gold coin would be even better. Gold, man.

[A]

You remember that old News story about the guy who had his bitcoin key on a computer, and the computer got thr spent. Like he spent his entire life going through a dump piece by piece looking for the hard drive. It's a true story.

[B]

I may have never heard that.

[A]

Look it up. It'll make you want to jump out a window. He was wealthy on the hard drive. Couldn't remember. Sure he was. Can you imagine? Anyway, I went out and talked to people.

[B]

You always do.

[A]

And they eat some funky stuff at Christmas I didn't know about. I'm starting strong here. We're going to do a little list like we did at Thanksgiving. So first of all, basic stuff. Turkey, stuffing, potatoes. If you're doing that stuff on Christmas, just go find the bowls for Thanksgiving episode. It'll cover that. Today, Jenny and I are going to talk about the little things sitting around the house at Christmas. Do you know what Puppy Chow is by any chance?

[B]

I do.

[A]

Do you really?

[B]

It's all sugar.

[A]

Somebody had to tell me what it was.

[B]

You've never heard of Puppy Chow?

[A]

I had no idea, really. Also, apparently some people call it Muddy Buddies.

[B]

Yeah. I was going to ask if you knew it by another name. Compared.

[A]

Never in my life. Like, just looking at this, I was like, oh, what is. I must sound like such a healthy eater, but I just eat different junk.

[B]

When I eat junk, it's really just sugar on top of carbohydrates on top of. It's essentially, you start with like, usually it's Crispix cereal.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And then there's peanut butter and chocolate. And then you roll it in powdered sugar.

[A]

Essentially, I'm looking at it right now. Cup of semi sweet chocolate chips, a half a cup of pean butter, 9 cups of crispy rice cereal squares, and a cup and a half of confectioner's sugar.

[B]

See, I had all the ingredients.

[A]

Jenny's like, I've heard this. Well, you're from the Midwest. There's no way this didn't exist in somebody's home that you know about 100%.

[B]

It was on, I would say, most tables at Christmas time. Just like Cheez Whiz and Ritz crackers. I don't know why. Cheese, Riz. Right. I mean, we got all the good cheese here in the canned cheese. And it was like, although my mom always made her really good. Do you know what summer sausage is?

[A]

I only know because my brother lives in Wisconsin.

[B]

That's right, yeah. So summer sausage and sliced cheese and various types of crackers.

[A]

I hope not to throw her under the bus here. But my sister in law, the first time she visited here at Christmas time, she came from your part of the country. She brought with her something that she was calling caramel corn, but it wasn't real popcorn with caramel over top of it. It was that the puffed. Yeah, the puffed popcorn. And she brought so much of it. And she was so. By the way, I want to say something here and I think this is kind of important here. She was so proud of it. It was a thing that she had done with her mom growing up. And it was a real like Christmas tradition for her. And she brought it in a bag and like. And I looked at it and I thought, we're all gonna die if we eat that. And. But it was just sugar melted through Styrofoam is what it looked like to me.

[B]

Pretty much.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. All right. If you break down puppy Chow, you're going to get 21 grams of fiber, 302 grams for the whole concoction. Cup of semi sweet chocolate, half a cup of peanut butter, 9 cups of crispy rice, cup and a half of confectioner's sugar. Right. But in this whole thing, just in case you lost your mind and ate all the puppy chow by yourself, you'd get 21 grams of fiber, 3, 302 grams of sugar, 115 grams of fat, and 56 grams of protein. If you cut it up into 16 bars, a bar would be 32 carbs, 1.3 fibers, 19 sugars, 30.9 net carbs, 7.2 grams of fat and 3.5 grams of protein. That would be in 16 bars.

[B]

Now let me tell you, that would at least be measurable.

[A]

But that's not because it's all like pickpocket.

[B]

It is not a bar.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

It's kind of like popcorn in a bowl.

[A]

But it's loose, right?

[B]

It's loose, yeah.

[A]

I guess what people are asking because this popped up a number of times, like, how am I bolusing for this?

[B]

My expectation would be that a bar. How many? You said 18 or 16.

[A]

Said you could cut. You could cut this concoction into 16 or 24. If you cut it into 24 bars, it would be 21 cars, barbs total for a bar. But how do you. I wonder if it can.

[B]

Well, that's what I'm looking at, like portion, 16 bars. My expectation is that it would be like a third of a cup portion. So if you're trying to envision a scoop or a handful out of a bowl, you could say probably whatever fits in the palm of a woman size adult hand would be approximate to what you'd get in one of these bars.

[A]

I'm trying to see if the Internet can do this. I mean, they, they.

[B]

The other way to break it down would be if the Internet can take it.

[A]

Well, I'm. I want to know one piece.

[B]

Portion.

[A]

I want piece. I want to know like, because we all know like a skittle is this, this is that like if you had a puppy chow, right?

[B]

Hi, Graham. Is that. That puppy chow is more than a.

[A]

Skittle because brands differ. The only way to do this is by estimating how many squares are in a cup. Most crispy rice cereal, like rice Chex, have 30 or 40 pieces per cup. We're going to get this typical labeled for crispy rice squares. 1 cup, 100 calories, 23 carbs, 3 sugar, 2 protein. So one cereal square should be 0.6 to 0.8 carbs. And. Okay. Okay. So then put the chocolate, sugar and peanut butter on a piece and estimate carbs again. Maybe we can get close here or just don't eat. So Jenny, the other. I got feedback the other day. Somebody said, hey, can you do a bolus for something healthy? And. And I said, hey, I just asked people what they want to know how to bolus for. No one asked for a ribbon, a baked potato. I gave it to chatgpt this time. Each coated cereal square is about 1.4 to 1.9 carbs, so I would have.

[B]

Guessed two or three.

[A]

Okay, so there you go. Two or three carbs. But per piece it's going to hit like a truck, right, with that powdered sugar. It is.

[B]

Yeah, absolutely. Even though there are fat and protein parts to it. Absolutely. You need to be falling before you start to eat this.

[A]

Jenny's like you're 90 Eubolis. You hear three beeps. Your Dexcom is screaming in pain. Have some puppy chow. Everything will be fine.

[B]

Well, the other back end of the. This is the fat and the protein or more the fat.

[A]

It is going to hit you again, right?

[B]

It'll hit you later.

[A]

Yeah. So it's going to be boom, big pop up. And you're probably not going to get ahead of it unless you pre bolus the hell out of it. And then you know what ends up happening. And then you see a big number. You put insulin on it and then you end up riding 250 for four hours afterwards. That is what probably happens with this thing, right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. All right, guys, so look you can, all of you. By the way, you don't need me and Jenny Chat GPT. I just, you know, Gemini. I don't care which one you use. I've been messing with Gemini a little bit lately. I think Chat GPT knows. I think it knows I'm cheating on it.

[B]

I've never clicked on the Gemini. I know it sits on my chrome corner. It looks at me.

[A]

They just did a nice update. It's coming along. All right, let's see what's next. Homemade chocolate fudge. Yeah. Oh, I got it here as granulated sugar, cocoa powder, milk, butter, vanilla extract, salt. Calories for a 1 inch square piece, 70 to 100 fat for that same piece. 2 to 4 carbs, 14, 14 sugar, 13 protein.

[B]

And my guess is it. Is it like a 1 inch by 1 inch square?

[A]

Yeah. Oh, my God.

[B]

Yeah, it's packed.

[A]

Oh, I love fudge. I do want to be honest, if it's refrigerated. You know what I mean? Like, I just want to.

[B]

I prefer. My mom always made fudge. It was the thing that she and my dad made together in the days before Christmas.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

And it's a great childhood memory. My favorite was always her peanut butter fudge.

[A]

My mother in law makes it with fluff or something in it too. Like, you know the fluff and udder Marshmallow. The marshmallow stuff? Yeah, yeah. And I gotta tell you, it's like crack. And then she'll bring it, she'll be like, I made fudge. And I'm like, uh, don't leave that here.

[B]

I wonder, does she make it chocolate?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Oh, okay. Cause I wonder if what she was trying to make was. My mom makes something similar. It's called divinity. Divinity is a really difficult recipe to make because it takes temperature and timing to get it to fluff the right way. But it's white, just like a marshmallow.

[A]

Oh, I don't know.

[B]

You mix in like chopped walnuts or chopped pecans.

[A]

Oh, I do know that. I've never had it.

[B]

I say it is delicious.

[A]

But it's sugar.

[B]

But it's all sugar.

[A]

Does it sound right? Granulated sugar, light corn syrup. We'll get back to the fudge. Water, two large egg whites. Vanilla. Chopped pecans.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

A pinch of salt. Yeah. Cook the syrup, bring it to a hard boil, hard ball stage. Oh, this is like you're making candy.

[B]

It is.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Your mom and my mom had it down. It was her grandmother's recipe.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And they always made it.

[A]

All right, you want to do it for the people. And then we'll go back to the fudge.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

I have an old fashioned divinity recipe right here in front of me. See, you people are out there.

[B]

You want to fix a low blood sugar.

[A]

That'll take care of it.

[B]

Take care of the divinity.

[A]

All right, where's this at these websites? Okay. There's not a lot in it, but it's all sugar. There's not much else in it, I guess, but sugar. Okay, so let me go back to my little thing here. Break down. Does the cooking of the sugar change?

[B]

Does. So it's not. If you've done it right, it is no longer granular.

[A]

Right.

[B]

It's like, it's like a marshmallow texture.

[A]

Really. Okay.

[B]

It's not pulley.

[A]

No.

[B]

Like a marshmallow. But it's got that squish consistency when you actually bite into it. It's like fluff. It's great.

[A]

So I gave it. I gave it that recipe that I just told you. Two and a half cups granulated sugar, water, corn syrup, just in case you're wondering on the ingredients. Two and a half cups of granulated sugar. Wow. Has 500 grams of carbs in it.

[B]

And corn syrup.

[A]

Corn syrup is 100. This. It's only a half a cup of corn syrup. 120 grams of carbs. Then the egg whites, the pecan. It is just corn syrup and sugar. Wow. That's. So it's about how it's cooked. Estimate per piece. If you make 24 pieces with this concoction, you're getting. If you make. Wow. If you make 24 pieces per piece, 137 calories and most.

[B]

It's all sugar.

[A]

26 and a half grams of carbs, fat, 3.3 protein. Under 1. You're bolsting like you're bolsting for the sugar bowl. Really?

[B]

100%?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

All up front. Real like.

[B]

Like at Christmas time. I would wish for low blood sugars.

[A]

Look at you. Look at you being human on this thing. I mean, if we look at the fudge recipe, are we just gonna see the same thing? Is it just gonna be sugar? Quick hit and you know, some fat on the end. Contournext.com juicebox that's the link you'll use to find out more about the contour. Next gen blood glucose meter. When you get there, there's a little bit at the top you can click right on. Blood glucose monitoring. I'll do it with you. Go to meters. Click on any of the meters. I'll click on the next gen and you're going to get more information. It's easy to use and highly accurate. Smart Light provides a simple understanding of your blood glucose levels. And of course, with Second Chance sampling technology, you can save money with fewer wasted test strips. As if all that wasn't enough, the Contour Next Gen also has a compatible app for an easy way to share and see your blood glucose results. Contour next.com juicebox and if you scroll down at that link, you're going to see things like a Buy now button. You could register your meter after you purchase it or what is this? Download a coupon? Oh, receive a free Contour Next Gen blood glucose meter? Do tell. Contornext.com juicebox head over there now get the same accurate and reliable meter that we use. Unlike other systems that will wait until your blood sugar is 180 before delivering corrections, the MiniMed 780G system is the only system with meal detection technology that automatically detects rising sugar levels and delivers more insulin as needed to help keep your sugar levels in range and even if you're not a perfect carb counter. Today's episode of the Juice Box podcast is sponsored by Medtronic diabetes and their MiniMed 780G system, which gives you real choices because the MiniMed 780G system works with the Instinct sensor made by Avid as well as the Simplera Sync and Guardian 4 sensors, giving you options. The Instinct sensor is the longest wear Sensor yet, lasting 15 days and designed exclusively for the Mini Med 780G. And don't forget, Medtronic Diabetes makes technology accessible for you with comprehensive insurance support programs to help you with your out of pocket costs. We're switching from other pump and CGM systems. Learn more and get started today with my link. Medtronicdiabetes.com Juicebox Fudge is mostly just sugar.

[B]

It does have a little bit more fat, but in general, yeah, it's a quick hit.

[A]

Yeah. So everything on this list so far is pre bolus ahead of time. Try to get your blood sugar moving in the right direction before you tax the insulin with this food.

[B]

Or like we talked about for Thanksgiving, it's the fact that you may also have a heavier meal or something else along with it like the cheese and crackers or a charcuterie board or something.

[A]

I had, by the way, a French person yelled at me the other day for how we said that. Don't worry, she's listening.

[B]

I don't speak French.

[A]

Yeah, we're. We're way off apparently.

[B]

How did she say to Say, I.

[A]

Don'T remember, she's French. I can't, I can't estimate.

[B]

You probably ask Google Translate to say it for you.

[A]

I'm just saying I don't think it's charcuterie is what I'm getting at. The fudge. I've got three quarters of a cup of butter, two and a half cups of granulated sugar, two thirds of a cup of evaporated milk, a little salt. Estimated total for this, wow, it's a lot for the whole thing. Cut it into servings. You guys could be doing this at home though. And I think you should be, to be perfectly honest. Like, I mean, think about for all the years that Ardent's had diabetes and I've been around people with type one and they're out there with a scale and they're measuring and some scales are like giving them. Just take the recipe, copy it, drop it into any, you know, any one of these things like Gemini or Chachi PD or whatever and just say, break this down for nutrition for me and whoa. Comes right back like, you know, and it really should help you. I was having a conversation with a person in the medical field the other day who's not particularly diabetes related, but adjacent to it, and they said, you know, from their perspective, the biggest problem they think people with diabetes end up having is they don't count their carbs correctly. And I think what that person was saying was they don't use the right amount of insulin. That was the kind of the roundabout way of like. But it was interesting because from their perspective it just looked like, oh, if they counted their carbs better, they'd be okay. Obviously that ignores a lot of things, but it was a, a slightly medical, still layman's view of the situation. But all these foods point this out exactly. Like where people are probably going wrong is they're probably just misestimating what it is they're taking in if they're lucky enough to.

[B]

Which then leads to not enough insulin.

[A]

Yeah. And you're just there. Fudge poured in 8 by 8 inch pan gives you 641 inch squares. 8. Wow. 8 grams of carbs for the 1 inch square.

[B]

2.3 fat, which isn't bad compared to the divinity.

[A]

No, not at all. A calorie is 53. 53 for a little one by one.

[B]

It's like an apple really.

[A]

Is that how many calories in an apple?

[B]

Most fruit is about 50ish calories per portion.

[A]

No kidding. They're just learning stuff. What's next?

[B]

I like this list by the way.

[A]

This list is just like this list is meant to kill you. Gingerbread cookies. Oh. Flour, molasses, brown sugar, butter, eggs, spices, baking soda. Let's see, what do we get out of this? It looks like one medium cookie, uniced, 160 calories, 6 grams of fat, 27 carbs, 15 sugar to protein.

[B]

And what I will say, while gingerbread cookies were the note here. A cookie is a cookie is a cookie.

[A]

It all kind of hits the same.

[B]

In terms of portion. I'm not talking about the cookie that could serve six people.

[A]

Yeah, sure, right.

[B]

Your typical gingerbread size cookie. Or for. Again, a quick eyeball. It's about the size the. Just the palm of your hand.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Usually about 25 to 30 grams of carb.

[A]

I'm looking at this, and y' all just don't make a chocolate chip cookie at Christmas and a. And a. And a butter cookie and you're done. There's more than that. That's all we do. Little butter cookie. And by the way, we throw them away. By the end, we bake these cookies like there's more people living in here than there are. And, like, two or three of us aren't on a GLP medication. And then, like, there's, like, a big thing of cookies. And then, you know, a week later, everybody's like, these cookies are in the. We throw them out. How much of eating do you think is that Is about the. Well, this is what I do. This is how I remember it. You know what I mean?

[B]

That's a good question.

[A]

Yeah. You eat the way you were taught.

[B]

To eat to some degree. I mean, I have definitely adjusted things, especially with the education I have and the information I have at hand. But I learned to eat a balanced plate to begin with.

[A]

Yeah. There are just times where I realize that I'm doing things because that's what we do. And I hate that, because as far back as when I wrote a book, I put the pot roast story in my book. Right. Like, you know the pot roast story.

[B]

I don't. I've never read your book.

[A]

Jenny, did I not give you a copy of the book? That's not.

[B]

No, I've never. I never. I would read it if I had it.

[A]

No, you wouldn't. Don't lie to me.

[B]

Listen, I would.

[A]

I like reading a lady and her and her daughter, her young daughter are making a pot roast. The woman pulls the pot roast out of the refrigerator. She cuts both ends off of it, puts it in the pan, and sticks it in the oven. And the girl Goes, why'd you cut the ends off the pot roast? And the mother, without hesitating, says to the little girl, that's how my mom makes it, so you're gonna have to ask Grandma. So the little girl does, the next time she sees her grandmother, she says, how come you cut the ends off the pot roast? And the woman says, I don't know. That's how my mom made it. Next time we're at the home, ask great Grandma. So they get to the home, Great grandmom's a thousand years old. Methuselah, you know. And the little girl goes, Grant, you know, tells her the whole story about the pot roast and everything. And the old lady, she thinks and thinks and thinks. She goes, oh, I know I had a very short pan. And I just think that a lot of things happen for those reasons.

[B]

100%.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

There's not a true cooking strategy or reason that the end pieces were bad and you didn't want to eat them. My thought was the pan wasn't big enough, so they just cut it off.

[A]

And generationally, you end up doing something over and over and over again for no good reason, like making divinity. For an example, eggnog, Jenny. Egg yolks. By the way, I've known Jenny so long now, there's no way in hell you would drink eggnog, right?

[B]

I don't. I have had a eggnog.

[A]

Was it.

[B]

I do not prefer it, no.

[A]

Okay. All right. I think there's something about the consistency of it you wouldn't like. Granulated sugar, heavy cream, whole milk. Heavy cream and whole milk. And nutmeg. Vanilla extract. Alcohol is optional. Calories for a cup, 250. 15 grams of fat, 20 carbs, 19 sugar, protein, 9. Is that the eggs?

[B]

It's the eggs.

[A]

Okay, well.

[B]

And it's made with milk. Okay, so that has.

[A]

How do I bolus for eggnog?

[B]

It's a good question. How much fat is in there?

[A]

Fat? 15. 15.

[B]

That's pretty high. Fat in liquid, fairly high protein.

[A]

Like drinking gravy that made Jenny wretch so gross.

[B]

It's like wet bread. Do you know how many people. Oh.

[A]

Said wet bread to you after the Thanksgiving bolus?

[B]

They were like, I hope you enjoyed your Thanksgiving even if you didn't have wet bread. Like, thank you. I did not make wet bread.

[A]

I think we have struck an amazing balance where you sometimes say insulting things about food people like. And yet they don't or they aren't insulted. And we have such a nice thing going on for the people Listening. So I don't know how to.

[B]

It's because I say you like what you like and we just want you to know how to navigate it, that's all.

[A]

But Jenny's not going to pretend she would have gravy in a. In a lifetime. I don't know. How do we bolus for. It's a lot of carbs and a lot of sugar and a lot of fat all at the same time, so.

[B]

And it's liquid.

[A]

Yeah. It's going to hit pretty fast. Right.

[B]

And liquids usually hit a little faster in terms of the carbs. It's a good question. I would say you still need a pre bolus for it, but then in the aftermath, you really need to pay attention for the fat and the protein hit.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's almost like the puppy chow. Not quite as fast.

[A]

You think it'll be longer tail?

[B]

I would expect it might be a longer tail also.

[A]

You're not going to just have eggnog, right? And does the boo. If you put booze in it, would that change it a shot?

[B]

I mean, maybe a capful?

[A]

Not gonna be a big change to the.

[B]

Gonna be major, but yeah, I'd expect a pre bolus and then to pay attention to the aftermath.

[A]

Okay. Okay. Fruitcake. I'm. I forget what's in it. Butter, eggs, spice. It's cake with fruit and rum and Brandy, et cetera. 325 calories a slice, 10 grams of fat, 56 carbs, 32 sugar, 5 protein. That's gonna hit you like a truck. You might wanna bolus yesterday for that.

[B]

Well, and what's in it besides the carbs from the bready part? But you've got candied fruit.

[A]

Yeah. And dark brown sugar or molasses, right? Yeah. I put molasses on pumpkin pie.

[B]

Oh, really?

[A]

Yeah. It's like my grandmother was Pennsylvania Dutch and she would always put karo syrup or molasses over pumpkin pieces. And I can't. I can't eat it without like a tablespoon of it over top of it.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Yeah, I made my own pies at Thanksgiving. They were awesome. In case you're wondering, it's really more about the. It's more about the pie crust.

[B]

Oh, I like crust.

[A]

Yeah. Who doesn't love that? All right. Anyway, you guys also asked about potato latkes. Oh, this is interesting because there's matzo meal. Matzah's hard to bolus for, like real matzo. It's tough. I have some experience with, like, real, like traditional matzah. Yeah, it's so good it hits your stomach like a lead brick after it's in there like it's crazy, but man, is it good while you're eating it.

[B]

And are we talking about latkes that.

[A]

Are fried russet potatoes, shredded onions, grated eggs, binders, matzo meal, flour or potato starch, salt, pepper, High heat. Oil for frying.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yeah. Fat, 4 to 6 carbs, 12. Sugar, 1. But this is the ingredients, not the frying. It doesn't include the frying. How much oil does something pick up when you fry it?

[B]

That's a great question.

[A]

Yeah, I wonder if we can figure that out.

[B]

Actually, I would expect it picks up at least a tablespoon. Let's say the portion is the size of the palm of your hand and a tablespoon of oil is around 10 grams of fat.

[A]

Yeah. Are we doing that thing together this year? Because if we are, you're going to need to know this or you're not sure if you're coming yet.

[B]

I'm not sure yet.

[A]

Oh, okay.

[B]

I will know by the end of the day today.

[A]

Really? Oh, let's say this. If you come, then you and I will do a bolus for. For that. And I don't think it's going to get a ton of downloads, but I do think people would find it incredibly interesting because the foods are. They are challenging. Let's see. Frying is the primary contributor to fat content in latkes, the raw potato, blah, blah, blah. Therefore, frying typically adds 3 to 8 grams of fat per medium. Okay. So that means that the concoction as made has 4 to 6 grams of fat in it, but as cooked, more like eight. So it does. It picks up a couple more grams of fat. If you were to bake them, you'd have about 2 grams fewer. But oh, hot oil sears the outside immediately, creating a crust to prevents the oil from soaking in the center at a temperature.

[B]

Doesn't soak.

[A]

Is. This is interesting. So if you're deep frying it at the correct temperature, the oil, 350 to 375 because it sears, it stops some of the oil from coming in. But if you use. If your oil is too cool, then the potato will actually absorb more and you'll end up with much more fat in it. So it's a lot about the. You have to get the cooking process right too. That's interesting. Okay.

[B]

It was one of. I think I've told you before, in college, one of my favorite classes was food science and it really was all food chemistry. Yeah, it was the reasoning between temperatures and adding certain ingredients at certain times. It was very interesting.

[A]

There's a lot of little things. I love a poached egg, Jenny. And, you know, if you put a splash of white vinegar in the water, it helps the eggs stay together. When you poach the eggs, that's a thing. Somebody. Yeah, yeah, somebody told me that one time and I was like, oh. And it changes everything because they come out so nice and uniformed and it's. There's a lot of stuff you would know. Let's do a chocolate babka before we do the last thing. Okay.

[B]

Oh, that so reminds me of Seinfeld.

[A]

Oh, is that. Do you know the episode name?

[B]

Oh, it's. I don't know the name of the episode, but both Elaine and Jerry, I think Jerry, they end up going to, like, a bakery and they have to get the chocolate babka.

[A]

They have to. And this is the whole thing.

[B]

And it ends up, like, being hilarious, just like all the Seinfeld episodes do. But that reminded me.

[A]

Do you watch Curb youb Enthusiasm?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Curb is awesome. Seinfeld Season 5, Episode 13, the Dinner Party. There you go. Features chocolate babka in the title. Hmm. There we go. The conflict. Jerry and Elaine forget to take a number at the bakery counter. As a result, a couple ahead of them buys the very last chocolate babka. That's it.

[B]

And then she, like, I think she chases her down the street and like, it's a whole. It's so funny.

[A]

What's that? She made a show later in life called Veep. And if you like biting, harsh comedy, it's awesome. It's.

[B]

I don't know that I've ever seen that.

[A]

Veep is awesome. Chocolate Babka has 250 to 280 calories per slice. 12 grams of fat, 35 grams of carbs, 15 sugar, 5 protein. This stuff's all the same, really, isn't it? The way you're going to bolus for it. Plus, you brought it up earlier and it probably should be said again. It's not like you're just going to have babka and that's it.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

You're going to have all this other stuff going on. You just. I, I'm going to say again, it's going to sound overly simplified on days like this. Get ahead, stay ahead. Once you lose the high ground, you're in trouble. So. And then look for lows at the end of the day. Right? I mean, that's really what you got to do.

[B]

It really is and with the ease of even what you're showing, the ability to look up information. And I use this strategy which in the past year has really improved in teaching people because the resources are right at your fingertips.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

These days it's silly to say, well, I can't go over to Uncle Bob's house.

[A]

I can't figure it out.

[B]

Because I can't figure it out. No, no. You type it in to chat. GPT.

[A]

Yeah. Or whatever. Listen. I also, I do this like this live on purpose so that people listening get the idea of, like, I probably don't need Scott and Jenny to talk about every food on the planet. I could probably figure this out on my own. Because seriously, when we sat down, all I had was the list of things that people gave me. These like 10. I don't know if we got through all 10 of them or not.

[B]

You know, the one that is it on the list. And I'd be surprised if it wasn't. Which are candy canes on the list?

[A]

I just brought candy canes up because they weren't on the list. I'm going to tell you a story that I'm embarrassed by. Oh, I think a year or two ago I saw a guy on Instagram making candy canes in his candy shop out in California. And they were huge. They were like, I don't know, a foot and a half long and like the diameter of, I don't know, maybe an inch and a half across. And they were expensive. And I was like, oh my God, I'm buying these. And I bought them and I had them shipped to me and it was very expensive. And they really weren't any better than any other candy can I ever had.

[B]

I'm sorry.

[A]

But they were huge and lovely and they made nice ornaments. Candy canes are sugar, corn syrup, peppermint oil, Red 40. Are we still allowed to have that? Commercial additive titanium dioxide for bright white color and water.

[B]

A lot of foods is it thing? Yes.

[A]

That doesn't sound like food at all. But calories, 50 to 60 for a standard 5 to 6 inch candy cane. Fat, 0 carbs, 14. Holy Hannah. Really? Sugar, 11 to 12. It is just sugar. Huh? It's sponge sugar.

[B]

It's just sugar. And like you. Although I didn't order them from some person way across the country, by the way.

[A]

They were lovely. I ain't doing it again.

[B]

So I would say that you would have noticed the difference in the candy canes at the candy shop. Yes. I worked at a candy shop.

[A]

Wait, is that why I didn't like the candy cane as much. Wait, I'm sorry. Keep going. You worked in a candy shop in high school?

[B]

I worked in a candy shop in high school. I can't believe I've never told you this.

[A]

I don't know this.

[B]

I did. It was an old candy shop from, like the 1930s.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And the third generation owner was my boss. And all of the candy, the chocolates, everything were handmade. And I got to help make Christmas candy.

[A]

The stretching and the pulling and all that.

[B]

The stretching and the pulling and the belt that it goes down and the heating elements that keep it just the right temperature to be able to mold.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

And there were like. To make the candy canes or the candy cane wreath or the. Have you ever seen ribbon candy?

[A]

Yeah. Yeah, he makes that too.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I wish I knew the guy's name.

[B]

It was a beautiful process.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And those candy canes again, please let me have a low blood sugar because.

[A]

That'S what you're looking for.

[B]

They were good. Like, really, really good. In fact, they made what were called cherries.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And they sold them in bags, and they're about an inch in diameter. And when we sold them, we gave the purchasing person a thing of green wire. And so what you do when you take it home is you heat the end of the wire in a flame, you put it into the cherry, you put another cherry on the other end, and then you hang them on the tree. And they're beautiful.

[A]

It's lovely.

[B]

They're also really tasty.

[A]

Yeah, I imagine they are. I've done a little picking around while you've been talking.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

First of all, titanium dioxide, often listed as TiO2 or Food Additive E171, is a naturally occurring mineral used primarily as vivid white pigment. It is sourced from the earth, processed and refined into a fine white powder. What does it do? It primary function is to whiten and add opacity. Commonly used in candy canes, powdered donuts, coffee creamers, cake frosting, and other colored candies like skittles. Creates a white base layer so the outer color shell looks vibrant rather than dull. It is a physical UV blocker. It reflects UVs away from the skin. In cosmetics, it's used in toothpaste. Industrial uses primary pigment in almost all white paints, plastics and papers. It is a bit controversial because the concern revolves around nanoparticles, extremely small particles of titanium dioxide. Some suggest these nanoparticles can accumulate in the body and potentially damage DNA or genotoxicity if ingested over long periods. It is the Ban in the eu. Due to these concerns, the European Union banned titanium dioxide as a food item in 2022. In the US the FDA is still considering it safe for consumption. Interesting. And I asked afterwards would a handmade candy cane. Because I now realize the reason I didn't like the handmade candy cane as much as I like the store bought one is the store bought ones are chewier. Does that make sense? Oh yeah. See, you suck on a candy cane, right? Like that's how most people do it.

[B]

Like I don't. If it's chewy, it goes in the garbage.

[A]

Ah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So the texture is different. So it says here around the corn syrup. Commercially they rely heavily on high fructose corn sirup and often preservatives or stabilizers to ensure the candy cane stays hard for months sitting on a shelf. Handmade ones use regular corn syrup, not necessarily high fructose or glucose syrup to prevent crystallization. However, you can find an all natural handmade recipe using cream of tartar, vinegar or lemon juice to stabilize. I didn't dislike it. I guess it was just different. And now I'm realizing it was different because it was probably, oddly enough, better for me than the one I would have bought in the store. Now I got to buy it again. Damn it.

[B]

Is that your research?

[A]

I mean, listen, I'm not doing it. I just won't eat another candy cane. I'll be good. Do you hang candy canes on your. On your tree?

[B]

We don't hang candy canes.

[A]

No.

[B]

On the tree.

[A]

I didn't grow up with that, but I got married and I was told that that had to be done. Oh yes. Christmas Eve, Santa hangs candy canes on the tree when he comes.

[B]

Yeah, we never did that.

[A]

I didn't do that one either. Anyway, Jenny, we've done it again. Obviously.

[B]

Yay.

[A]

People are going to be thrilled. Juicebox podcast.com meal-bolt if you want to look at the way Jenny and I think about, you know, setting up a bolus. But for the most part, these things that you guys asked about for Christmas, good luck. And if you want to know any of the holidays. Yeah. And go find out. Go find the Thanksgiving bolus for. You want me to tell you I should tell them what episode it is before we go. Thanksgiving bolas for. For the meal we went over turkey, potatoes, stuffing, all the stuff and how to bolus for that big meal. It looks like that was episode. Hold on a second. 1692 bowl is for Thanksgiving. I was talking about Logan's candies. On Instagram. They have nearly a million followers.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

And they're in Ontario, California. And now that we sit and had this conversation, I realized that their candy cane actually tasted probably like what a candy cane supposed to taste like to taste like and not what I get when I'm in the source. So I'm now going to apologize and tell you should go check them out. Even if you just go to their Instagram to watch them make candy, it is just like Jenny was explaining in her experience, absolutely fascinating to watch them make it. It is so really cool. All right, sorry. Logan's candies on Instagram. All right, guys. Merry Christmas, Happy New Year, Happy Hanukkah. And Jenny and I might be back with a. Well, we'll see. We'll see what?

[B]

We're back with something.

[A]

Yeah, something. All right, see you guys.

[B]

Bye.

[A]

I'd like to remind you again about the MiniMed 780G automated insulin delivery system, which of course anticipates, adjusts and corrects every five minutes 24 7. It works around the clock so you can focus on what matters. The Juicebox community knows the importance importance of using technology to simplify managing diabetes. To learn more about how you can spend less time and effort managing your diabetes, Visit my link medtronicdiabetes.com Juicebox Having an easy to use and accurate blood glucose meter is just one click away. Contour next.com juicebox that's right. Today's episode is sponsored by the Contour Next gen blood glucose meter. Okay, well, here we are at the end of the episode. You're still with me. Thank you. I really do appreciate that. What else could you do for me? Why don't you tell a friend about the show or leave a five star review. Maybe you could make sure you're following or subscribed in your podcast app. Go to YouTube and follow me. Or Instagram TikTok oh gosh, here's one. Make sure you're following the podcast in the private Facebook group as well as the public Facebook page. You don't want to miss, please. Do you not know about the private group? You have to join the private group. As of this recording, it has 74,000 members. They're active, talking about diabetes. Whatever you need to know. There's a conversation happening in there right now and I'm there all the time. Tag me. I'll say hi. Foreign. Series. Jenny Smith and I are going to pick one food and talk through the bolusing for that food. We hope you find it valuable. Generally speaking, we're Going to follow a bit of a formula, the meal bolt formula. M, E, A, L, B, O, L, T. You can learn more about [e-mail] or. But here's what it is. Step 1. M Measure the meal. E evaluate yourself. A, add the base units. L layer a correction. B build the bolus shape. O offset the timing. L, look at the CGM&T tweak for next time. In a nutshell, we measure our meal. Total carbohydrates, protein, fat, consider the glycemic index and the glycemic load. And then we evaluate yourself. What's your current blood sugar, how much insulin is on board, and what kind of activity are you going to be involved in or not involved in? Do you have any stress hormones, illness, what's going on with you? Then A, we add the base units, your carbs divided by insulin to carb ratio. Just a simple bolus. L layer of correction, right? Do you have to add or subtract insulin based on your current blood sugar? Build the bolus shape. Are we going to give it all upfront 100% for a fast digesting meal? Or is there going to be like a combo or a square wave bolus? Does it have to be extended? I'll set the timing. This is about pre bolusing. Does it take a couple of minutes this meal or maybe 20 minutes? Are we going to have to Again, consider combo, square wave boluses and meals, Figure out the timing of that meal and then L look at the cgm. An hour later, was there a fast spike? Three hours later, was there a delayed rise? Five hours later, is there any lingering effect from fat and protein? Tweak, tweak for next time. T. What did you eat? How much insulin and when? What did your blood sugar curve look like? What would you do next time? This is what we're going to talk about in every episode of Bolus 4. Measure the meal, evaluate yourself, add the base units, layer a correction, build the bolus shape, offset the timing, look at the cgm, tweak for next time. But it's not going to be that confusing and we're not going to ask you to remember all of that stuff. But that's the pathway that Jenny and I are going to use to speak about each bolus. And if you have a podcast and you need a fantastic editor, you want Rob from Wrong way recording. Listen, truth be told, I'm like 20% smarter. When Rob edits me, he takes out all the like gaps of time. And when I go and stuff like that. And it just. I don't know, man. Like, I listen back and I'm like, why do I sound smarter? And then I remember because I did one smart thing. I hired [e-mail].