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- [00:00]
A
Hello friends and welcome back to another episode of the Juice Box Podcast.
- [00:14]
B
Hi, I'm Laurel. My 14 year old son was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes about a year and a half ago, so we're still pretty new in the journey.
- [00:25]
A
If this is your first time listening to the Juice Box Podcast and you'd like to hear more, download Apple Podcasts or Spotify, really any audio app at all. Look for the Juice Box Podcast and follow or subscribe. We put out new content every day that you'll enjoy. Want to learn more about your diabetes management? Go to juiceboxpodcast.com up in the menu and look for Bold Beginnings, the Diabetes Pro Tip Series and much more. This podcast is full of collections and series of information that will help you to live better with insulin. If you're looking for community around type 1 diabetes, check out the Juice Box Podcast. Private Facebook group juicebox podcast type 1 diabetes but everybody is welcome. Type 1, type 2 gestational loved ones it doesn't matter to me. If you're impacted by diabetes and you're looking for support, comfort or community, check out Juice Box podcast type 1 diabetes on Facebook. Nothing you hear on the Juice Box Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise. Always consult a physician before making any changes to your healthcare plan. This episode of the Juice Box Podcast is sponsored by Omnipod5. Omnipod5 is a tube free automated insulin delivery system that's been shown to significantly improve A1C and time and range for people with type 1 diabetes when they've switched from daily injections. Learn more and get started today@ omnipod.com juicebox@ my link you can get a free starter kit right now. Terms and conditions apply and eligibility may vary. Full terms and conditions can be found@ omnipod.com juicebox the podcast is also sponsored today by USMED usmed.com juicebox or call 888-721-1514. Get your supplies the same way we do from US MED.
- [02:16]
B
Okay, you just want me to say hi, I'm Laurel.
- [02:21]
A
That's it. You did it, Laurel. That was awesome. Thank you.
- [02:24]
B
Perfect.
- [02:25]
A
Laurel. Why am I talking to you today? What do you have? What do you have? You have a thing. Did something in your body attack something else? Do you have a kid who had a problem? Why are we doing this?
- [02:34]
B
I have a kid. My 14 year old son was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes about a year and a half ago. So we're still pretty new in the journey.
- [02:44]
A
Your 14 year old son. Now the photo of you on this machine yeah. Makes me think that you got pregnant when you were seven. Is that correct?
- [02:54]
B
Not quite. I was 25.
- [02:56]
A
Wait, no. You're 39.
- [02:59]
B
I'm 42.
- [03:00]
A
Is that a recent photo?
- [03:02]
B
That's. It's about five or six years old. It's an older photo, but not that. Not that old.
- [03:10]
A
Oh, my gosh. Good for you. Thank you. Yeah. You must be thrilled, right?
- [03:16]
B
Thanks. I appreciate it. Yeah.
- [03:18]
A
Do you not look in the mirror and just go, oh, things are going my way?
- [03:23]
B
I mean, I. I don't feel bad about myself in any way, but I definitely feel like when you're looking at yourself, you. You notice all of the things I always have people say, like, oh, you. You look so young. Like, I thought you were in your twenties. And I'm like. Like, I can see all my wrinkles and stuff, but it's fine.
- [03:41]
A
If the woman in this photo brought me a lunch at a restaurant, I'd be like, let's tip her a little extra so she can get, like. That's. That's how you listen. Talk about the way you see yourself and being old. May I? Can we digress in the first two minutes? Let's do that.
- [03:54]
B
Sure.
- [03:55]
A
Also, for everybody listening, Laurel got a great story, so just hang on. Okay. I'm in the. The grocer yesterday, wandering about, picking up a thing or two that I want, to be honest, Kelly made me go get, so. But I don't mind, because my day's kind of interesting. Like, I can kind of go out for a little bit in the middle of the day sometimes, and I like getting up and moving around. So I'm out. I'm walking around. I think I'm coming from the vegetables, headed over towards where the breads are. This lady is walking towards me. I don't know how to put this exactly. She looked. Oh, God, I am embarrassed. She looked me up and down and then gave me the face. Do you know what I mean, Laurel? Like, yeah, like, maybe if we ended up having sex in her car behind a dumpster behind the grocery store, that'd be a good way for her to spend her afternoon. Now, this is not a thing that happens to me a lot, but it happens once in a bit, so I know what it looks like. Here's the problem, Laura. Hold on. No one get upset when I say this, okay? She was too old to look at me that way, and it made me feel really bad about myself.
- [05:04]
B
Oh, no.
- [05:07]
A
I was like, what is happening right now? Why does grandma want me to come with her? And so. So Arden well, first things first is I immediately text my family in a group chat and I say I've just been hit on by a woman so much older than me that I, I really. I'm just. I feel sad for myself right now because either I look her age to her, or I'm what passes for young and hot in her world. And that's not true either. Oh, God, I felt. So Arden responded back. She said, dad's got the raisins hitting on him. Which I didn't know was. Did you know that? Did people. Do people call older people raisins?
- [05:48]
B
I knew what she meant. I haven't heard that, like, as a.
- [05:51]
A
General term, but maybe she made it up. I have no idea. And I thought, okay, I'll get by on this. But no. Like, four hours later, I found myself on the phone talking with Isabel about something for the Facebook group. And the last 10 minutes of our conversation were me complaining about this older lady hitting on me in the grocery store.
- [06:07]
B
Oh, my goodness.
- [06:08]
A
I felt. I. Listen, first of all, thank you, anybody who finds you attractive. I'm very appreciative of that, et cetera and so on.
- [06:15]
B
Yeah.
- [06:15]
A
But I looked at her and I thought, she's a lot older than I am. And it pushed into a part of the, like, I don't know, like, part of me was like, hey, good for her. You know what I mean? And like. And the other part of me was like, oh, God, this is. My life's over. That's exactly how I felt.
- [06:33]
B
Listen, women have been out here being hit on by men 40 years older than us for. Since the beginning of time. Yeah.
- [06:41]
A
I mean, like, so I was all for feminism. I didn't realize this is what it meant that I'm. That I've got to go outside and feel like, oh, why does this old lady want to touch me? And like, and. But that's what it feels like, huh? Oh, gosh, I didn't even think of it this way.
- [06:57]
B
There you go.
- [06:58]
A
Is this what happens when I say hi to a 30 year old girl? They're like, no, I'm not doing it with you, you old. Like, you think, even if I'm being.
- [07:07]
B
Nice, being creepy about it.
- [07:09]
A
Listen, I try not to. I don't imagine I'm being creepy, but, like. Right, but do you think, oh, maybe she wasn't being creepy. Maybe she had gas. Maybe that was the look on her face. Or maybe maybe she was, like, looking at me and then like, her brain was like, oh, I think our dependence needs to be changed. And like, and then it made her make a face, and I mistook it for. For lust. Is that possible?
- [07:31]
B
Anything's possible.
- [07:33]
A
Okay. All right, that's enough of me. By the way, this is the last time I talk. Wait till you guys hear what happened to Laurel. We'll get back to your kid with the diabetes later.
- [07:43]
B
Oh, really?
- [07:44]
A
Okay. Oh, yeah.
- [07:45]
B
That's not the most interesting part. That's, like, the most normal part of the story.
- [07:48]
A
No kidding. Let's, like, I. Usually. I. I'd backload your story, but I love this too much, so. And sorry about your life, but why don't you tell me how old you were when. When what happened happened to you, and walk me through it a little bit.
- [08:04]
B
Okay. So I was actually born into a cult. I. My parents joined the Unification church in the 70s. Have you ever heard of us? Known as the Moonies.
- [08:17]
A
Oh, my God.
- [08:19]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [08:20]
A
Your parents. How old were they when you were born?
- [08:23]
B
I think my mom was, like, 30, in her early 30s. But my parents both joined in the 70s, like, in their 20s. And then they were, you know, fundraising around the country, selling flowers and all kinds of things on the side of the road and living in vans. And then. Then they were matched by Reverend Moon, who was the leader, where he basically. He. He's famous for the mass weddings for people who don't know.
- [08:55]
A
Sunmong Moon. Is that right?
- [08:57]
B
Sun. My moon.
- [08:58]
A
Yes, Sun Man Moon. Okay, go ahead.
- [08:59]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So. And he would just basically, like, match people up. My parents literally were in a giant ballroom, and he, like, pointed to my mom and then point to my dad and was like, you two. And that was it. And so then they were technically, like, engaged for about three years. And then they, you know, got married in a big mass wedding at Madison Square Garden in 1982. And then I was born in 1983. So.
- [09:33]
A
Do you think they played that music? Dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun. Hey, da. Like, when they all came out, like, you know, at the basketball games. Great.
- [09:42]
B
No, I don't think so.
- [09:43]
A
Okay, so let's see if. I'm gonna ask you a question. We'll see if you have the answer to it.
- [09:47]
B
Okay.
- [09:48]
A
What was wrong with your parents? How did they end up in that situation?
- [09:51]
B
So my dad was. He had gotten married, like, right out of high school. He was really, really young. He had had a kid. So I have an older brother who's, like, 11 years older than me. And then they very quickly, like, got divorced. And so he was kind of, like, wandering and lost, and he was out Hunting in Montana. And then, you know, some, you know, ended up meeting some people that, like, invited him to a thing.
- [10:22]
A
And, you know, your half brother went with the mom.
- [10:26]
B
Yeah.
- [10:26]
A
We call him Lucky, Right?
- [10:28]
B
Yeah. Yes and no. You know, it's. Yeah. Different circumstances. But he for sure did not grow up in. In the cult.
- [10:36]
A
So tell everybody why are you comfortable calling it a cult?
- [10:40]
B
Sure, sure. Yeah, Yeah. I mean, that wasn't always the case. Obviously, growing up, it was. It was really difficult. Even, like, hearing the word I felt like, was painful because it was sort of this reminder of, like, how other people viewed us. And, you know, as a kid, I didn't know that it was a cult. It was just, you know, you believe your parents, you believe everybody around you that tells you that this is normal and this is good and everybody else is wrong.
- [11:11]
A
Okay.
- [11:12]
B
So hearing that word was like, you know, accusatory and felt really bad. It took several years after I had really left and processed it to start using the word. And part of that was really going through the process of deconstructing all of the things that I had grown up with and learning about how cults work and learning about other types of coercive control and things like that, and looking at sort of the different scholarly writings about it and stuff, and sort of.
- [11:53]
A
Understanding that accusations, like, ran the gamut with him. Right. Like authoritarianism being brainwashing people, like.
- [12:01]
B
Yeah.
- [12:01]
A
Taking money. Right. There was like financial exploitation.
- [12:04]
B
Yeah.
- [12:05]
A
He ended up. He landed in jail in the.
- [12:08]
B
In the 80s. Yeah.
- [12:09]
A
Okay. For, you know, tax evasion. Tax evasion. Okay.
- [12:13]
B
And. And some sort of misappropriation of funds and stuff. I mean, my parents, along with all of the other, you know, first generation members, were fundraising on the streets and all of that money was going back to him, going back up to the top.
- [12:28]
A
You know, he wasn't donating that to a higher situation, I don't imagine.
- [12:32]
B
No, he was building. He was like, buying mansions and running businesses. And also a lot of those businesses were, you know, employed. The church members, they called it the. I always called it the church growing up. So if I say the church, the cult, I use it interchangeably, but that's what that is.
- [12:49]
A
So tell me how old you were when you left and then explained to me what it was like growing up there.
- [12:57]
B
Sure. It's hard to pinpoint an exact time of when I left because it was. It was a really. Some people have like a. A really sort of drastic cutoff where they just say, like, no, I'm done, and leave. For me, it was much more of like as I grew up and kind of gradually, little by yeah, little by little, it was like, yeah, it was like, you know, death by a thousand cuts, sort of like chipping away at things. But for sure there was a major shift when my kids were born.
- [13:32]
A
Oh, wow. Went that far? Okay.
- [13:34]
B
Yeah. I was actually married in the church as well. Like, my husband grew up in the same. And so we were married and had kids, were still like part of the community, but not kind of. I guess you would call it like if it was like a cultural Catholic type of thing. If you were, you know, it was like, oh, we still hang out with the community, but we're not like super into all of the dogma and stuff. But yeah, when, when my kids were born. So I have an older son too, and my younger ones, the one with type diabetes. But yeah, when my kids were growing up, it really just switched of like, oh, I don't want to put my kids through the things that I went through. I don't want them to grow up the same way that I did.
- [14:18]
A
What would you say are some of the, I guess, lowlights of what you mean by that, how you grew up? I used to hate ordering my daughter's diabetes supplies. I never had a good experience and it was frustrating. But it hasn't been that way for a while. Actually for about three years now because that's how long we've been using usmed usmed.com juicebox or call 888-721-1514. US Med is the number one distributor for Freestyle Libre systems nationwide. They are the number one specialty distributor for Omnipod Dash, the number one fastest growing tandem distributor nationwide. The number one rated distributor in Dexcom and customer satisfaction surveys. They have served over 1 million people with diabetes since 1996 and they always provide 90 days worth of supplies and fast and free shipping. USMED carries everything from insulin pumps and diabetes testing supplies to the latest CGMs like the Libre 3 and Dexcom G7. They accept Medicare nationwide and over 800 private insurers. Find out why USMED has an A rating with a Better business bureau@usmed.com juicebox or just call them at 888-721-1514. Get started right now and you'll be getting your supplies the same way we do. Today's episode is brought to you by Omnipod. We talk a lot about ways to lower your A1C on this podcast. Did you know that the Omnipod 5 was shown to lower A1C that's right. Omnipod 5 is a tube free automated insulin delivery system and it was shown to significantly improve A1C and time and range for people with type 1 diabetes when they switched from daily injections. My daughter is about to turn 21 years old and she has been wearing an Omnipod every day since she was four. It has been a friend to our family and I think it could be a friend to yours. If you're ready to try Omnipod 5 for yourself or your family, use my link now to get started. Omnipod.com juicebox get that free Omnipod 5 starter kit today. Terms and conditions apply. Eligibility may vary. Full terms and conditions can be found@ omnipod.com juicebox I grew up, I went.
- [16:44]
B
To public school, which is, there's a huge range of people. Some kids were, you know, did homeschooling and other. There's a huge gamut. But I actually went to public school and there was nobody else in my town. My parents, we lived in like a really small town rural area and there were no other like church families around. So I had this really weird experience of sort of like having this split personality of where I was in school. I had to like, I felt like I had to like lie about all of the church stuff and like pretend to be and fit in there. And then when I would go to church events, I would have to like pretend to be what they needed to be and not associate with sort of the way that I was with my friends there. And so like, I had this really sort of split sense of identity where I didn't feel safe in either place.
- [17:46]
A
Right.
- [17:47]
B
And then, you know, there were also, you know, as I got older too, the demands of the cult itself. You know, I grew up in really strict purity culture which a lot of other people in sort of fundamentalist religions grew up with. I wasn't allowed to date at all. I wasn't, you know, allowed to have premarital sex, any of that. There was also a really toxic sort of relationship with sort of like mind and body stuff. Part of the theology was like that it's mind over body, right? So your body is evil and you should be able to like suppress your body's needs and stuff. And so a lot of like I went to camp as a kid. They, they used to do summer camps. We would have to do things like wake up at 6 o' clock in the morning and go do exercises before breakfast. And they would have us do these exercises where we had to do everything exactly the Same like a military type of drill. And if anybody messed up, we'd have to start all over again until we got it right. And this was all before breakfast. Like, we weren't allowed to have breakfast until we got these drills right.
- [19:07]
A
You know, your parents are all in the whole time, or did you ever feel them waning or were they.
- [19:14]
B
So my parents are interesting.
- [19:16]
A
They.
- [19:17]
B
They've always been all in on, like, believing in the theology and stuff and. And in Reverend Moon and all of that, but they haven't always agreed with sort of how things are run or, like, what's happening with the organization. And because my parents live. Because we grew up, like, a little bit outside of the central area where Moon was living at the time and where there was a lot of members, they could sort of, like, get away with stuff without anybody really caring. So there were plenty of times where my parents would just be like, you know, some sort of order would come down of like, oh, all the families have to go do this, or all of the parents have to. So one example is. So this was right before I was born. My mom worked at a church nursery school, but the nursery schools, basically. Reverend Moon at one point said, all of the moms have to leave and go on foreign missions and go to other countries. So they would leave their babies in these nursery schools and basically they became, like, orphanages.
- [20:36]
A
Where was he sending the women to?
- [20:38]
B
To other countries to go witnessing and fundraising and, like, spread the providence and. And my mom worked at one of these places, and she was, like, taking care of all of the babies and stuff. And then from that experience, she was like, I don't wanna. I don't wanna do that with my own kids, you know, so she, like, had a friend or something. When she was pregnant with me, she had a friend, like, in, like, the head office, and that helped her, like, get her name off of some list or something. And then she was able to, like, avoid it somehow. So, like, you know, she's done stuff like that.
- [21:17]
A
Yeah, for me. For you. You. She did it.
- [21:20]
B
Yeah.
- [21:20]
A
Are they in still or are they alive? I'm sorry.
- [21:23]
B
They are. They are, and they're, you know, as.
- [21:26]
A
Cause didn't, like, parts of, like, he maintained some control from prison, but his family kind of took over the family business at some point. Right.
- [21:34]
B
Well, he was only in prison for about 18 months.
- [21:38]
A
Oh, that's not bad.
- [21:39]
B
Yeah. And then he got released and then, you know, continued on for years after that. You know, the prison thing only really made everybody double down and actually got a lot of, oh.
- [21:51]
A
Cause he's being persecuted, they thought.
- [21:53]
B
Yeah, exactly, exactly.
- [21:54]
A
Gotcha.
- [21:56]
B
And he even got a lot of like, other Christian ministers and stuff rallying around him saying, like, this is religious persecution, you know, and, you know, he's built up business empires. He bought the Washington Times. A lot of people don't know that the Unification Church owns the Washington Times newspaper. True World Food, which is like the Americas. That's where like all the sushi restaurants get their fish is True World Foods. That's a Mooney owned business as well. Oh, yeah. So it's a huge empire now, though. There's so much stuff that's happening. I could go down so many rabbit holes with you.
- [22:36]
A
Whatever you think is interesting, you're fine.
- [22:38]
B
I mean, after. So he. So Reverend Moon actually died in 2012, and then after he died, the church splintered into a few different groups. So two of his sons are like splinter groups now. One of whom is. Has been in the news before as well. He's in Pennsylvania. It's like the gun church called Sanctuary Church. Sean Moon is his name.
- [23:07]
A
Huh.
- [23:08]
B
And they, like, they got in the news because they had like a blessing ceremony with AR15s and it happened right after the Parkland shooting, I believe.
- [23:18]
A
Okay.
- [23:19]
B
And so they ended up in like national newspapers after that.
- [23:23]
A
The wrong kind of attention, actually.
- [23:25]
B
That when that happened in God, that was probably 2017, 2018 somewhere around there, that was like my final straw. So I had for years and years sort of just been like, receding into the background and like, you know, stop going to church on Sundays and slowly sort of talking to myself and being like, I don't believe in this anymore and I don't want to do this. And, you know, and just sort of going through that process on my own. And then during that, when that all happened and that blew up in the news, I was like, I don't even want to be in any way associated. Like, that's when I started being loud and saying, like, I am out and telling other people, I am out.
- [24:12]
A
So how do you. Well, how do you decide to do that when your husband. Well, actually, let me ask one other question, because it's been getting away from me, I think because of my Life. Growing up watching 80s television, I assumed you all lived on a piece of ground somewhere where you were doing farming. But people had their own homes and then they come together just for church.
- [24:32]
B
Yeah. In the 70s when people joined, they were. Most people were living in, like, they dropped out of school or from wherever they would live in, like, church centers. And stuff.
- [24:43]
A
Okay.
- [24:44]
B
There were maybe some places where they were on farms, but mostly not. They were in, like, old, old, you know, buildings that they would convert into, like, a church center.
- [24:55]
A
Okay. I mean, because when I start my cult, I wanted to know, do I have to have a big piece of property or can I make people pay for their own house? Because what a scam. Like, you're in my cult, but you have to pay for your own house.
- [25:06]
B
I know, I know. Well, so what happened was. Yeah, there was a lot of communal living when people first joined because they were all like, you know, teenagers or 20s. They were, yeah, hippies in the 70s. Then once he started matching people up and people getting married and having families, then it's harder to do that. So was there any.
- [25:29]
A
I'm sorry, is there weird sex stuff in this cult or. No. Like, does he get to have sex with your mom or, like, that kind of stuff?
- [25:35]
B
For sure there's weird sex stuff.
- [25:37]
A
Did this touch you ever? The weird sex stuff?
- [25:40]
B
Only in the sense that we knew about it. And, like, I was exposed to some of those ideas and things at, like, an early age that I probably shouldn't have been known about. I definitely know your friends. My friends? Yeah. Yeah.
- [25:59]
A
Well, high level. What's that look like? Did they just pass you around or did you not get to say no if somebody tells you you hooking up with somebody? Or what's it look like functionally?
- [26:10]
B
Well, so it's. You know, sex cults are. There's like two sides of the same coin, right? So there's like a sex cult where it's like, totally free and open and it's like, everyone have sex with everyone. Right. And then the other side is the purity culture side where it's like, we are going to control your sexuality no matter what. But it's still an obsession on sex. So for us growing up, it was. It was that intense control. So we were told that any. Any kind of sexual desire at all was sinful. Like, even just having a crush on somebody was bad. So we learned how to suppress those things. And then when we had to go, when we had to. I remember. And a lot of people had to do this. So. So when my husband and I, we had an interesting process. So when I was older, all of our parents were matched by Moon. But then as my generation kind of grew up, Moon was like, I'm not gonna do this anymore. Parents, you do it for yourselves. So it was more kind of like a family, parent matching sort of situation. It was a little more casual. My kids around my age, that was, like, the first time they were doing it. So my parents just didn't really know. They were like, I don't know how to do this. So they're just like, who do you. Like, like, who are you friends with?
- [27:34]
A
Do you turn into something? It turned into normal right away.
- [27:37]
B
It turned a little bit.
- [27:39]
A
A little more normal.
- [27:40]
B
A little bit more normal? Yeah, because. So my husband and I had known each other. We were friends for, like, a year and knew each other, so. And. And then we sort of, like, dated for two years before we did, like, the church ceremony, like, blessing and everything. So it.
- [27:53]
A
It.
- [27:54]
B
It was more normal than, like, what my parents went through, other people went through. That's my dog. Sorry.
- [28:01]
A
No. A dog? Are you serious? I didn't know. So wait, can you explain to me, please? Like, what does it mean to, like, quell your desires? Like, how you said. You said it? Like, it was obvious. You just do the stuff. Like, what's the stuff?
- [28:13]
B
Oh, I mean, like, you're.
- [28:15]
A
I mean, at some point, you're 16, 17, 18 years old, you see a boy and you're like, that kid's cute. Then how do you make that go away?
- [28:22]
B
Okay, well, when I was a teenager, I for sure started, like, pushing back and sort of testing the limits. And I, of course, I had crushes. And I also just wanted to, like, be normal and, you know, go out with people the way my friends did or even just talk about it the way my friends did. And so I would sometimes, like, have a boyfriend in quotes for, like, about a week. And then I would feel so guilty and so horrible, like, I'm the worst person ever. And this is terrible because we were told this was not just bad for us, but we believed that all of Spirit World, all of, like, our ancestors, were, like, counting on us to, like, be perfect and then, like, restore them so that they could have a higher place in Spirit World.
- [29:15]
A
And so Spirit World was the real name of it.
- [29:17]
B
Yeah, that's what. That's what they called it. Spirit World.
- [29:19]
A
I gotta tell everybody. Just so you know, in my cult, I'm gonna do much better with the naming struct. Thanks. Okay. Yeah. Don't you worry. Don't you worry.
- [29:27]
B
Pick a more fanciful, like, interesting name.
- [29:30]
A
We're going to make it sound more believable, that's for sure. Okay. Yeah.
- [29:35]
B
No, Spirit World is. It was very. It was.
- [29:37]
A
Don't they sell Halloween costumes? Is that what am I thinking of? I mean, that might be Spirit Halloween.
- [29:44]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [29:46]
A
I mean, come on.
- [29:47]
B
So we believed in spirit world. And so, like, if you were having these desires, it was like you were being attacked by evil spirits or Satan or whatever. And you would. There were things called conditions. So if. If you were doing something bad or some, you know, you were struggling, that was like a. A term like this person's struggling. You know, you could do certain things to, like, make up for it or like to, you know, do that mind over body thing. So we were told to take cold showers because anytime that your body is uncomfortable, then the evil spirits don't like it and then they, like, fly away or whatever. So you take cold showers or you would do bowing conditions. So we learned how to do, like, the Asian full bows at a very young age. We would wake up at five o' clock in the morning every Sunday and, like, do a bow to Reverend Moon and his wife's picture and say, like a pledge and everything that was part of, like, the family traditions. So you could do, like, bowing conditions where you would do 100 bows in a row.
- [30:51]
A
That'll take the horny right out of you. That'll tire you right out for sure. I was thinking of flicking my bean, but I'm just. I gotta give up. I'm so. I'm exhausted from the bowing.
- [31:03]
B
Yeah, your knees start to hurt. You're just. Yeah, it's not good. And then there's the more extreme cases of, like, kids being sent to Chungpyeong, which is the place in Korea which was sort of like the Mecca, the spiritual place. And back when I was growing up, it was just like this out in the Korean countryside. And they would do this thing called ansu, like basically ritualistic beating. Like, you'd be in a circle with other people, and you'd have somebody behind you and somebody in front of you, and they'd be like, tapping on you really hard and to a drum beat and over and over and over and over again and again. This was like getting the evil spirits out. And you would do it all over your body. You'd move down all over your body. Yeah. And you would. Usually there were certain periods of time that you would go to Chung Piang. It was like 21 days or 40 days or 120 days. He was very into numbers. So there was a lot of, like, numerology, number stuff involved with everything we did.
- [32:16]
A
Yeah, well, I mean, you've gotta. You've gotta use your time somehow once you're bored with breeding people to see what. What colors their hair come out at, like, I mean, Because, I mean, honestly, that the pairing people really did make me feel like he's like, you know, if I took this puppy and put it with this puppy, I wonder if we get.
- [32:32]
B
And he was not. I mean, he was very obvious about that. Like, he put. He wrapped it up into this thing of saying, like, oh, the excuse that he gave or the thing that you would say as a church member is like, oh, he wants world peace. And so he's doing that through marriage, like, uniting people from different cultures that used to fight with each other. So a lot of couples would be Japanese and American or German and Jewish, Korean and Japanese. Like these cultures that have, you know, famously sort of. Yeah.
- [33:12]
A
You all fight with each other. Marry each other instead.
- [33:16]
B
Yeah. So, like, if you all marry each other, then you can't, you know, not love your family. So that'll fix everything.
- [33:25]
A
So in my cult, I could make like a. I could make like an Omnipod wear. Marry like a. Like a tandem wear. Right. Yeah. And then the. And a medtronic person with a pump, they'd have to. They'd have to wear a Dexcom. That's how I would. That's how I would throw them together, make them do their thing. Oh, my gosh. But it's interesting to me.
- [33:43]
B
Yeah.
- [33:44]
A
The transition for you out of it is.
- [33:47]
B
Yeah.
- [33:48]
A
More recent than I thought it would be. Like, there was part of me that when you started talking, I thought, like, you're gonna tell me, like, you know, you were 18, somebody gave you weed. You're like, I had sex in a car and left the cult. But that's not like you got put together with somebody, married somebody there, made kids. And how. And your kids were born in. Into it as. As well. Right.
- [34:06]
B
Yeah. Yeah.
- [34:08]
A
Okay, technically, but. But you boogied pretty quick after that. Yeah, I.
- [34:13]
B
Again, once my kids were born, it was sort of this. Yeah. This light switch of like, oh, I don't wanna expose my kids to that.
- [34:21]
A
Yeah.
- [34:22]
B
Yeah. And I have to. And I have to figure this out.
- [34:25]
A
The husband went along with this.
- [34:26]
B
Yeah. You know, it's been a different process for him, but he's very supportive. We've talked about it a lot over the years, you know, and we've always agreed on, like, how we wanna raise the boys and stuff. And it's complicated because we're never going to be able to completely sort of separate ourselves.
- [34:50]
A
Why?
- [34:51]
B
Because our. If we want to stay in contact with all of our family members, you know. Oh, his parents, my parents, brothers. Well, my sister is out. She left way before I did. She was the more typical, sort of. She left, like, right after college and was like, yeah, no.
- [35:13]
A
I'm gonna go to college. I'll be never coming back. Thank you.
- [35:16]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Basically. Basically.
- [35:18]
A
Do your parents not talk to her?
- [35:20]
B
They do.
- [35:21]
A
They do. Okay.
- [35:22]
B
And they've come a long way. But it was very hard for them in the beginning with her. And I was always sort of the middle. I was always sort of in the middle. I would, you know, talk to them on the phone, and they would be crying and talking to me about her. And then I would talk to my sister, and she would. Crying and talking to me about my parents.
- [35:43]
A
You ever sit with your parents and go, hey, we're in a cult.
- [35:47]
B
Yeah.
- [35:47]
A
And then what. What's the response?
- [35:51]
B
Not that direct. I've. I've brought up, you know, I've brought up things like my. My mom working at the nursery school and sort of talking to her. I've talked to her about that and said, like, you know, I have friends who were left there for three years. They didn't even recognize or know their parents when their parents came back to pick them up, you know, because they were left there as babies.
- [36:21]
A
You say to your mom, does that seem right to you? And she says, right.
- [36:24]
B
And my mom. Yeah, she. She gets this pained look on her face. She feels sad about it, but also she sort of feels like, well, that's what we had to do, and it was a sacrifice, and that's what we were told to do.
- [36:41]
A
Can I ask a difficult question? It might be difficult for you to answer, and sure it's not. Some people are gonna think I'm judgmental, but I'm trying. I'm just trying to get to the court. And I mean this. Yeah. Are your parents. Are they dumb? No, I'm being serious. Like, are you. Like, do you look at them and go, wow, they're challenged. They have trouble. Like, they're getting through the rest of life, too. Like, does that. Do other things fool them? I guess.
- [37:04]
B
No, not at all. My parents are very smart, you know, growing up. They listen to npr. They're very, like, intelligent people. They're engaged politically. Like, they're not dumb people. And most people who join cults are not dumb people. That's like a very. That's a very stereotypical sort of thing.
- [37:23]
A
I'm trying to get to it. So then what happens? How does. How does an otherwise bright person get. I was going to say hornswoggled, but I'm not. It's not 1850, so I'm not sure why I would say.
- [37:32]
B
I know. So a lot of the research has shown that the most common reason that people sort of fall for cults is because they are at a point in their lives where either something has happened or they're in a state where they're vulnerable. Right. So this is why cults recruit on college campuses, because it's the first time that people are away from their homes. They're out on their own. They're, like, in a new environment. They're trying to figure out life for themselves for the first time. My mom was dealing with depression before she joined. Like, there's a lot of stories of people who are dealing with addiction before they joined and then joining that cult, that community. Because another thing a lot of people in the ex cult world say is people don't join cults. They join a community. You join something that you think is a good thing. And so it's like, wow, this thing helped me get sober. Or this thing helped me, like, gave me some meaning and gave me some community.
- [38:34]
A
Oh, I'm already running a cult then.
- [38:37]
B
Oh, you absolutely are.
- [38:38]
A
Oh, I just haven't paired you all up yet. Well, something to look forward to in season 15 when I get. I run out of ideas. Don't you worry.
- [38:47]
B
No, if you. If you wanted to. I mean, it's all about group dynamics, right? Yeah. If you. If you wanted to, you could. I have total faith in you. You could. Absolutely.
- [38:56]
A
Listen, I. Let me stop you for a second, Laurel. I'm gonna give myself a lot of. I'm not giving myself any credit here, because it's just not a thing I would do, but I could definitely do this. Like, I. You're all. I've said it before. I'll say it again. You're all just lucky. I'm a decent person, and I wanted to help people with diabetes because if I wanted to make a bunch of money and buy property and get. Get myself into the raw fish business, I could have done that too.
- [39:18]
B
Yeah.
- [39:19]
A
So it's just a person who kind of sees how the world works.
- [39:22]
B
Yeah.
- [39:22]
A
Says to themselves, what do these people need? What can I offer to them? And then. Then the. Then the. Then the. The disruption there is then. Right. That person goes, and I'll just be like, you know, I'll be cruel. I'll be. I'll be worried about money before people, and I'm just like. I just would like to see people with diabetes feel better.
- [39:39]
B
Yeah. And it's exploiting. It's exploiting people's genuine need for community and idealism. Like, you know, my parents were told, like, we want peace. Like, this was right after the Vietnam War and all of these things. So they were like, we want to love people, we want to bring peace, we want to make a better world. These are the things that they were told. And once there's a thing called love bombing that actually the Moonies coined that term, and it's something that's used widely throughout cultic system and just in culture in general now is love bombing. And that's when a new person comes. You love bomb them. All of the people know that this is the new person, all of the members, and they just. You are the most interesting person in the world. We're so happy to have you here. You just feel amazing. It feels amazing. You join a cult in the beginning.
- [40:38]
A
So you sort of take common decency and then rev it up to a thousand and then overwhelm people's senses so that they feel like, oh, I have finally found this thing I've been looking for. I've been addicted, I've been ignored, I was molested. And now I found people who are just going to accept me. And then you suck them in, get them feeling that, and then make them have sex with, like, a monkey and then take their money.
- [41:05]
B
And then. And then. Well, sorry, there's a longer process until you get to the monkeys.
- [41:11]
A
But, you know, get to the monkeys, Scott, that's not day one, my friend.
- [41:17]
B
It's not day one. You know, it's. It's little by little, and then, you know, sort of by the time you're down to like, oh, yeah, I'm going to let this person pick my spouse, you're already so deep in it that.
- [41:29]
A
It all makes sense.
- [41:30]
B
You're all in. You're all in at that point.
- [41:32]
A
Also, pot committed, right?
- [41:34]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [41:35]
A
They. They say that's a real common, like, human thing. Like nobody, once you. Once somebody said out loud, I'm for a thing, they have a lot of trouble, like, publicly backing out of it again.
- [41:47]
B
Yes. And so then all of those sort of psychological processes like cognitive dissonance kick in, where your belief is so rooted to your identity that if somebody challenges it, it's like they're challenging your whole identity. And you cannot handle that. And so you have to. Your. Your brain can't hold sort of these two opposing views at the same time. And so politics find a way to rationalize it. Yes, Politics.
- [42:17]
A
Politics is a cult then.
- [42:19]
B
Yeah, absolutely right.
- [42:20]
A
Because then it describes when, by the way, I've seen These, these little interview videos on like all sides of like belief. So don't, don't think I'm talking about yours or the other one. But yeah, you know when you get somebody together and they say, you say like, why are you here? And they go, I'm here for A, B and C. And then somebody goes, well, actually that's wrong. And here, here's the, and you can see them, like, see the, the, I don't know, the, the proof in front of them. And you can watch in their eyes as they go, oh hell, I'm wrong about this. And, and then they double down.
- [42:50]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay. That's very common. That's, that's why it's. A lot of studies have been done. It doesn't work to present somebody with facts or to say, hey, you're in a cult because they're not going to see it. They're not going to see it. They're not able to. There, there's that cognitive dissonance. There's that defense. Also cults and other, they build up these walls to sort of prepare you for the persecution. And they're like, oh, these people, this is what they're going. And so that feeling of like, oh, if they say this, it's just because they want to persecute us.
- [43:27]
A
Or there's all of these reasons they pre prep you so that when the common sense comes at you, you go, I was told, I was told the devil would come and be dressed like this. Yes, right. Like that feeling.
- [43:36]
B
Oh, yes. And also when somebody confronts you and you get that horrible feeling and it feels unsafe, it's that idea of persecution. Right. And you want to run back to where it's safe and where people don't judge you or confron. And that's the cult.
- [43:53]
A
How great are your kids? You were able to push through all this just for them. I mean, these are very handsome children or what's going on here?
- [44:01]
B
I think so. I think they're great. Yeah.
- [44:03]
A
No, but seriously, like, what have you, you must have thought about this. Like what? I mean, it's nice to say, like, I didn't want my kids to be there, but I'm sure there are plenty of people who, you know, for example, left their kids in that orphanage for the lack of a better term, didn't want to live their kids there, but did it anyway. So. Yeah, what is it just happenstances that you went to a public school, you tried dating a little bit, did you have just enough of the outside world in you to be Like, I. This smells wrong to me. Or like, are you special? Like, you know what I mean?
- [44:32]
B
Right? Yeah, I think. I think it's a lot of those things. The fact that I was born into it is also a different experience. I know. And not always the case because there's definitely people who were born into it who have stayed, and I stayed a lot longer than I should have. You know, people leave when. When they can, when they're ready to leave. Yeah. It's different when it's something that you didn't choose.
- [44:57]
A
What are the things you're getting from it? Because you're an adult, you have your own home, you're making your own babies, all that stuff. Like, why do you. Is it just. Is. Is in your mind? Is it just church or. No, you see, it's something bigger.
- [45:09]
B
So when I was younger, I absolutely believed in all of the things I was being taught. Right. And as a child, you know, that's sort of like part of the psychological process is, like, to trust your parents. Cause you have to. Because that. For safety reasons. You know, again, it was like I was in. I had sort of this split personality of, like, part of me knew that certain things were wrong or that certain things didn't feel good, something didn't smell good. Yeah.
- [45:40]
A
It might have been the sushi.
- [45:42]
B
It was definitely the sushi. Yeah.
- [45:44]
A
Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you, everybody. Thank you. If I was on stage right now, this is when I'd be waving while you're all laughing. Thank you. Sorry. Go ahead.
- [45:52]
B
And then part of me was like, this is the community that I'm in. There's. You're surrounded by other adults and other kids and other people who all believe, or you think they all believe the same thing and they're telling you this is true?
- [46:07]
A
And, you know, is that true? Do you think. Do you think they all believe it, or do you think everybody's just there going, like, it's too late now?
- [46:14]
B
I think it's a mix. I think there's. I think there's a lot of people who are true believers. I really do. And then there's other people who are sort of just hanging on because it's their whole. They gave up everything else, and this is their whole life. This is their whole community. To leave is. Is much harder than it seems because there's such a huge cost in leaving. Like, you lose all of your friends, maybe.
- [46:41]
A
Do you think there are people who are just completely thrilled with being involved and have absolutely not one regret or argument and that. And it's not because they're. They're. They've been hornswoggled, which, by the way, I looked up and it's crazy that I know this word. I mean, unbelievably odd in my head. Yeah. Like, do you think. Do you think there are people who are genuinely happy?
- [47:05]
B
You know, I think there are. And I think for the most part, those are the people who are not sort of in the inner circles or higher levels of leadership. They're just sort of like normal members living their lives and like maybe going to their local church and being part of their community, but they're not like doing sort of all of the big level things or sort of in the inner circle where they know.
- [47:33]
A
So no different, Lind. Like, if I was Catholic and I went to church, but I wasn't like, all in on everything. I just showed up on Sunday, looked nice to. Just threw in a couple shekels, and I was on my way. Like that kind of.
- [47:43]
B
I definitely think there are. There are members that. That feel that way, and that's how I felt. That's how I felt for many years that I was in that place, you know, before.
- [47:52]
A
Parents are in at a formative time in the, in the. I don't know what to call it. The cult, the church. Like, they're, They're. Yeah, so they're. They're dug in, right? They're. That's before social media, before the Internet, before, like they heard something and they were like that. Well, that's what you say it is, and that's what it is. And then that's. And then you're in before anything gets thrown in your face. You. You're younger, right? You have actual, like, you know, like normal, like, childhood rebellion that probably got. Probably got pointed at your parents and at the church at points and times. Maybe you didn't make it to the cold shower once or twice and so you had a little too much time to think that kind of thing. Okay. Yeah, I see it. All right. By the way, it's possible I heard it from Yosemite Sam and Looney Tunes is what. Is what the Internet tells me.
- [48:38]
B
Oren Spagel.
- [48:39]
A
Yeah. Yeah. Apparently that maybe is where I got that from.
- [48:42]
B
So that sound.
- [48:44]
A
Oh, my God, I felt so. You know how I felt? I felt as old as that lady at the grocery store yesterday when I said that, I was like, maybe she was right to hit on me. I give off. I give off horn swaggled energy. Apparently she's like, this guy looks younger than me, but he might Just be a dye job. Yeah. Cuz. Yeah, that's might have a nice dark head of hair. It's the secret to life, if I'm being honest. Everybody's gotta. Yeah, whatever you believe in keeps your hair dark. Say thank you.
- [49:14]
B
Yeah. You know, I actually feel like I have an interesting relationship with aging because when I fully left and then sort of. So also leaving and then like leaving in your mind are like two different things. Like leaving.
- [49:31]
A
Yeah.
- [49:32]
B
Physically and then. And then like healing from that is different. I've been in therapy for many years. Yeah, and so you must have taken.
- [49:43]
A
A belt and tied yourself to your therapist.
- [49:45]
B
I mean, listen, you can't go. I've got an appointment with her this afternoon.
- [49:52]
A
You're damn right you do. So your parents, any autoimmune stuff with your parents? Watch me pivot this into a beautiful two parter. Go ahead.
- [49:59]
B
I was like, how are we gonna get down?
- [50:00]
A
Don't you worry. It's not my first day. Laurel, I'm gonna have you paired up in 10 minutes. Making me money, by the way. Also, when we're done here, I'm gonna need you to go across the ocean and tell people about the podcast for me.
- [50:14]
B
Okay.
- [50:18]
A
So is there any autoimmune in your parents or like their sides of the family, anything like that? This episode was too good to cut anything out of, but too long to make just one episode. So this is part one. Make sure you go find part two right now. It's going to be the next episode in your feed. This episode of the Juice Box podcast is sponsored by Omnipod5. Omnipod5 is a tube free automated insulin delivery system that's been shown to significantly improve A1C and time and range for for people with type 1 diabetes when they've switched from daily injections. Learn more and get started today@ omnipod.com juicebox at my link. You can get a free starter kit right now. Terms and conditions apply. Eligibility may vary. Full terms and conditions can be found@ omnipod.com juicebox usmed sponsored this episode of the Juicebox podcast. Check them out@usmed.com juicebox or by calling 888-721-1514, get your free benefits check and get started today with us Med. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of the Juice Box Podcast. If you're not already subscribed or following the podcast in your favorite audio app like Spotify or Apple Podcasts, please do that now. Seriously, just to hit follow or subscribe will really help the show. If you go a little further in Apple Podcasts and set it up so that it downloads all new episodes, I'll be your best friend. And if you leave a five star review, ooh, I'll probably send you a Christmas card. Would you like a Christmas card? If you're living with type 1 diabetes, the after Dark collection from the Juice Box Podcast is the only place to hear the stories that no one else talks about, from drugs to depression, self harm, trauma, addiction, and so much more. Go to juiceboxpodcast.com up in the menu and click on After Dark. There you'll see a full list of all of the After Dark episodes.