#1735 To The Moon And Back - Part 2

Summary

Podcast Summary: Juicebox Podcast — Type 1 Diabetes

Episode #1735: "To The Moon And Back – Part 2"
Date: January 12, 2026
Host: Scott Benner
Guest: Laurel

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Episode Overview

This episode is the continuation of an in-depth conversation with Laurel, whose 14-year-old son was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes about a year and a half ago. The discussion weaves together the practical and emotional aspects of managing type 1 diabetes within a family, the influence of traumatic past experiences (including growing up in a high-control religious cult), and the search for balance between support, autonomy, and self-care. The episode also briefly addresses broader issues around cults, community, and trust.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Diabetes Diagnosis and Management

• Family Health Background

  • Laurel shares there’s some autoimmune history (grandmother with Sjogren’s).
  • No gestational diabetes or celiac disease in immediate family ([02:17]–[03:02]).
  • Son is of mixed Japanese and white heritage; some type 2 diabetes in the Japanese side of the family.

• Onset of Her Son’s Diabetes & Initial Signs

  • Laurel describes her son’s initial symptoms: lethargy, sleeping excessively, headaches, weight loss, and looking pale ([06:28]).
  • Diagnosis was made after a pediatrician’s finger stick: blood sugar in the high 700s, DKA, PICU admission ([07:56]–[08:45]).

• Adjustment & Technology Adoption

  • Post-diagnosis: MDI (multiple daily injections) for three months, then transitioning to Omnipod 5 and Dexcom.
  • Son manages most of his diabetes care himself, though Laurel, as a more present parent, oversees and assists.
  • Husband is supportive but less involved due to work commitments ([11:23]–[11:49]).

• Balancing Autonomy and Oversight

  • Laurel wants her son to have as much autonomy as possible, shaped by her upbringing in a controlling environment.
  • Struggles with how much to intervene: “Sometimes I’m like, am I… should I be pushing more? Because I have this thing for myself… These are the things I talk to my therapist about.” ([12:28]–[12:44])

• Glycemic Control & Growth Issues

  • Last reported A1C was 6.5%, but Laurel is concerned about variability.
  • Her son recently started growth hormones for a newly diagnosed growth deficiency.
  • Triggered a conversation about thyroid testing and cautions about trusting “normal” TSH ranges ([13:06]–[16:30]).

• Navigating Information and Anxiety

  • Laurel describes falling into “information spirals” and feeling overwhelmed: “I want to know what the truth is… and so it’s very easy for me to go down rabbit holes and then sort of get overwhelmed with all of the information that’s out there.” ([41:24]–[42:17])

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The Impact of Cult Upbringing

• Laurel’s Childhood in the Unification Church (“Moonies”)

  • Laurel shares candidly about the cult’s racial and social hierarchies, purity culture, and founder Sun Myung Moon’s secretive and hypocritical personal life ([03:33]–[05:28]).
  • She recalls the psychological burdens placed on members—including children: “We were told that everything that you do affects the entire world… and dead people too.” ([20:20]–[21:03])

• Trauma and Parenting

  • Laurel relates her hypervigilance as a diabetes parent to leftover trauma (“…feeling like the weight of the world is on your shoulders and I have to get this right... those feelings from childhood and growing up in their environment…”) ([20:17]).

• Leaving and Healing

  • Laurel reflects on choosing not to force her parents (now in their 70s) to confront the depth of their involvement and the emotional cost of leaving: “I don’t know if it’s worth it… I don’t want them to have to go through that process of really reckoning with that.” ([32:52]–[33:17])

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Cults, Community & Coercive Control

• Defining Cults

  • Discussion of what constitutes a cult and the spectrum of “coercive control” (referencing the BITE model by Steven Hassan, Janja Lalich, Robert Lifton and more).
  • The importance of analyzing group behaviors rather than labels ([29:48]–[31:46]).

• Comparisons and Humor

  • Scott jokes about the Juicebox Podcast’s dedicated fandom, drawing playful parallels to cult-like devotion (but with better rules): “I’m not asking you for money. You can have sex with whoever you want. Look at that. As long as it’s legal and everybody’s on board with it. You got my blessing.” ([25:51]–[26:06])
  • Laurel admits to being initially “triggered” by the podcast’s popularity:
    • “I swear to God, I was like, I don’t know about this. This is a cult.”
    • “The way that these people are, like, defending the podcast is, like, a little much.” ([26:35]–[26:53])

• The Pull Between Advocacy and Self-Preservation

  • Laurel discusses the pressure to “save others” versus the need to move on with life (“We do that to the detriment of actually taking care of ourselves and saying like, no, it’s fine. You can actually just, like, have a normal, peaceful life.”) ([23:04])

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Memorable Quotes

• On Early Symptoms & Diagnosis:

  • “He was just tired all the time. …He was like skin and bones…I let him stay home from school, and he slept the entire day, which was very weird for him. …I thought there’s something wrong here.”
    – Laurel ([06:28])

• On Managing as a Newly Diagnosed Family:

  • “From the very beginning, he’s a great kid…he manages really well. …I think in the beginning, he was just so relieved to feel better.”
    – Laurel ([10:52])

• On Trauma After Diagnosis:

  • “Those first three months when he was diagnosed… it’s traumatic on its own. …Then it also kicked up all of my own, you know, residual trauma.”
    – Laurel ([20:02])

• On Cult Upbringing & Guilt:

  • “We were told that everything that you do affects the entire world. And also, by the way, dead people, too.”
    – Laurel ([20:56])
  • “I’m a dirty, terrible person and I’m damning myself…everyone I’ve loved who’s gone…if only I could control myself.”
    – Scott ([21:31])

• On Autonomy and Parenting:

  • “I do feel like I lean on the side of wanting him to have his autonomy—because you grew up in a culture…”
    – Laurel ([12:28]–[12:33])

• On Information Overload and Trust:

  • “I want to know what the truth is. I want to know what the science is. …It’s very easy for me to go down rabbit holes and then sort of get overwhelmed… That’s definitely something that happened to me in those first three months.”
    – Laurel ([41:24]–[42:17])

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Notable Segments and Timestamps

| Segment | Topic | Timestamp | |---------|-------|-----------| | Family/Autoimmune history | [02:17]–[03:02] | | Diagnosis story | [06:28]–[08:45] | | ICU & hospital learning | [08:16]–[09:10] | | Tech adoption (Dexcom, Omnipod) | [10:52]–[11:49] | | Parenting, autonomy, and trauma | [12:28]–[12:44]; [20:02] | | Growth hormone, thyroid concerns | [13:06]–[16:30] | | Cult background, family hierarchy | [03:33]–[05:28]; [20:56]–[21:06] | | Community vs. cult discussion | [25:51]–[27:15]; [29:48]–[31:46] | | BITE model of coercive control | [29:48]–[31:46] | | Process of leaving and healing | [32:52]–[33:17]; [39:08]–[39:48] | | Coping with adult family in cult | [32:40]–[33:17] | | Information overload, trust | [41:24]–[42:17] |

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Episode Tone and Takeaways

• Tone:
  The episode balances warmth, candor, and humor to navigate emotionally complex territory. Scott’s light, at times irreverent, style puts Laurel at ease, encouraging open sharing about trauma, parenting, and diabetes care.

• Key Takeaways:

  • Managing type 1 diabetes as a parent is challenging, especially with added trauma history.
  • Modern diabetes technology (CGMs, automated insulin pumps) is a game-changer but requires continued parental support and oversight.
  • Cult-like environments can leave lasting impacts on trust, information processing, and emotional regulation.
  • Healing is ongoing but possible; community support (even if virtual) is vital.
  • There’s a nuanced line between helpful community and coercive group dynamics; recognizing real support versus destructive control is crucial.

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Final Notes

• Laurel voices hope for others who are trying to leave difficult environments: “It’s not easy, but it’s possible… there’s a community… you’re not alone.” ([39:08]–[39:48])
• The episode ends with mutual appreciation and a nod to ongoing self-care, both through therapy and maintaining a sense of humor.

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For more personal stories and practical diabetes management discussions, visit juiceboxpodcast.com.
If you want to explore cult recovery resources, consider works by Steven Hassan, Janja Lalich, or Robert Lifton.

Transcript

[A]

Welcome back friends. You are listening to the Juice Box Podcast.

[B]

Hi, I'm Laurel. My 14 year old son was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes about a year and a half ago, so we're still pretty new in the journey.

[A]

This is part two of a two part episode. Go look at the title. If you don't recognize it, you haven't heard part one yet. It's probably the episode right before this. In your podcast player, check out my Algorithm Pumping series to help you make sense of automated insulin delivery systems like Omnipod 5, Loop, Medtronic 780G Twist, Tandem Control IQ and much more. Each episode will dive into the setup, features and real world usage tips that can transform your daily type 1 diabetes management. We cut through the jargon, share personal experiences and show you how these algorithms can simplify and streamline your care. If you're curious about automated insulin pumping, go find the Algorithm Pumping series in the Juice Box podcast. Easiest way juiceboxpodcast.com and go up into the menu. Click on series and it'll be right there. Please don't forget that nothing you hear on the Juice Box Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise. Always consult a physician before making any changes to your healthcare plan or becoming bold with insulin. This episode of the Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by the Dexcom G7, the same CGM that my daughter wears. Check it out now at dexcom.com juicebox Today's episode is also sponsored by the Omnipod 5. And at my link omnipod.com juicebox you can get yourself a free free. What'd I just say? A free Omnipod 5 starter kit. Free. Get out of here. Go click on that link omnipod.com juicebox check it out. Terms and conditions apply. Eligibility may vary. Full terms and conditions can be found@ omnipod.com juicebox links in the show notes links@juicebox podcast.com so is there any autoimmune in your parents or like their sides of the family? Anything like that?

[B]

So all I know so my grandmother on my dad's side had Sjogren's. Okay, that's the only one that I know of for sure.

[A]

How about you?

[B]

I don't. Although every time that I go and get blood tests my B12 is low and then they test me for celiac and then it comes up negative.

[A]

So do you have celiac implications?

[B]

I did when my type 1. When I was pregnant with him I had a lot of gastro issues and that was the first time that they tested me for it.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

But it all came up negative. So again, I'm like, I don't know.

[A]

No gestational diabetes for you?

[B]

No gestational diabetes? No.

[A]

This boy that someone stuck you to.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

He have any autoimmune stuff on his side?

[B]

Not that we know of. I think there's some type 2 in his Japanese side. He's half Japanese, so.

[A]

Oh, that was that part of the plan thing where your parents, like, hey, tell me. Or is that just who you were attracted to?

[B]

No, it just happened. Anyway, there's a lot of half Japanese boys.

[A]

You're like, scott, you can't get away from them. I gotta be honest.

[B]

You really can't.

[A]

The place is filthy with them. They're everywhere.

[B]

Yeah. Being a little. Being a little white girl. And I was. I was outnumbered.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

I.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

There was. There was a very much of a. A hierarchy to, like, the Asians were the top, especially the Koreans. They were the. The sort of golden children of the cult.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

Anyway.

[A]

Yeah, boy, this is not going to sound right, but these aren't my words. They're just like. I'm just. I'm just following the story. Did they prefer the white girls or what was the. How did that work out? Who.

[B]

The Korean.

[A]

Well, whoever's on top, they get choice, right? Isn't that how world. Is that how the world works? Yeah, yeah.

[B]

No, no, they. They wanted to keep every. So Reverend Moon, like, matched his own children, his Korean children to other Koreans mostly. Like, he didn't want. Yeah, I see that.

[A]

That being inclusive. That was for other people.

[B]

That was for other people, exactly. Okay, again, he's got a whole very sordid sexual history past. So, like, he did the. He did the, you know, more stereotypical like, sex cult thing for himself in his early days and then said, oh, no, you guys have to do the purity culture.

[A]

Wait, did he have a bunch of kids with different ladies?

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

That seems like a problem to me. I have enough trouble just dealing with my wife. You know what I mean? Like, I. I can't have seven or eight ladies yelling at me about stuff that would not. I wouldn't be able to put up with that. And I don't mean put up with it. I mean, like, it would. I would go crazy.

[B]

Yeah, well, it was, you know, it's. Yeah, it's bad stuff. And then his. I mean, his current. The woman that he eventually married who had like 13 kids with him.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

How many kids do you think he has? Hold on a minute. Hold on. I'm gonna find out.

[B]

I Don't know for sure. I can't the number off of the top of my head, but he definitely has at least two or three other kids from other marriages or women.

[A]

His wikipedia entry says 16 children.

[B]

16. Yeah, that sounds about right.

[A]

My goodness.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay, well, then, yeah.

[B]

And Sam park is one of. He's one of his children from another woman who has actually spoken out about him a lot and told his story. So he's a good person to look up if you want to hear his story. Yeah.

[A]

Listen, if you guys want to know more, then, I mean, leave me out of it, because I can't really help you. Be honest.

[B]

Yeah, I can send you to all of the different resources. It's a very sordid and complicated history.

[A]

I will not be thinking twice about this after this is over, just so you know.

[B]

I don't blame you.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

Where were we? I don't remember.

[A]

Yeah, I do. Don't worry. I got the whole thing in my head. Your son, he's diagnosed at what age?

[B]

So it was right before he turned 13. So it was June 17th. He was 12. And then his birthday is on the 30th.

[A]

Okay, and what year? How long ago?

[B]

So that was 2024. Not that long ago.

[A]

Oh, just recently.

[B]

So it's only. Yeah, only been like, a year and a half.

[A]

What were your first indications then?

[B]

The first things that we noticed was he was getting really, really tired. He was just tired all the time. And we thought, oh, he's just, like, becoming a teenager, you know, or he was in soccer, so he's, like, playing a lot of soccer. But then it just kept getting worse. And then there was one day when he. I let him stay home from school, and he slept the entire day, which was very weird for him. He was a really active kid. And then after that, he was getting headaches and just sort of, like, not feeling well. And this went on for several weeks. Cause we weren't sort of picking it up, you know, There were some days when he would feel better, and then other days when he would feel worse. And then it was one weekend we went to the pool, and I just saw how skinny he was. He was, like skin and bones, you know? And his face was, like, pale, and he just did not look good. And I thought, there's something wrong here. I was thinking, like, does he have mono or something? But he never had, like, a fever or, you know, I was like, there's just. There's something wrong. So I made an appointment with the pediatrician for, like, Monday morning. Took him out of school. At the pediatrician. She, you know, did a bunch of tests, and then the last thing she did was a, you know, a finger stick to check his blood sugar. And then she said, I'm sending you to the hospital immediately.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Quick diagnosis. That's. That's not bad. I mean, once you get them in front of the doctor, I'm saying that the time in between is. Is, you know, about the way it goes. Usually you think you see something, you're not sure. It comes. It goes the whole thing right off to the hospital. DK, not DK. Where were we?

[B]

DKA. His blood sugar was 7 in the 7 hundreds. High 700.

[A]

Do it.

[B]

And so he was. We were in the PICU for the first 24 hours, just, you know, getting his blood sugar under control, and, you know, his liver was in distress, all of that. And then eventually we were able to move to the regular children's wing, and we were there for another three or four days.

[A]

Oh, gosh.

[B]

While we got all of the diabetes education and learned. Yeah. Learned how to do everything. And he, like, after that first 24 hours, I mean, he just. He was like. I could just tell you, like, the color came back to his face. He was, like, feeling better. He's like, oh, my God, this is.

[A]

You know, much better.

[B]

Yeah, much better. Much better.

[A]

If you were still in the church and you were like, like, all in. All in, yeah. How would they talk about managing diabetes? Would it be a problem or. No? Like, would they tell you your body? Because you were talking earlier about, like, your body, like, you know, like, and. And how to, like, you know.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. I'm wondering.

[B]

When I was growing up, there was a lot. There's. And there definitely still is a lot of sort of, like, people who get on the train of, like, oh, all diseases and illness are caused by evil spirits and stuff like that. So there's. There's definitely an influence of that there. I also knew, you know, once my son was diagnosed, I remembered that there were kids growing that I grew up with in the cult who also had type 1 diabetes.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And I, like, thought about their experience, and a couple of them actually, like, reached out to me, and I, you know, I talked with them a little bit. One of my friends was, you know, I was talking with her and about things, and she was like, yeah, you know, he's so lucky to have you. Cause I was kind of on my own as a kid, and she was also about 12 when she was diagnosed. So, Yeah, I think, you know, the combination of not knowing as much back then there not being as good technology, but then also, like, having parents that are just so wrapped up in the church stuff.

[A]

Yeah. Other stuff.

[B]

And you're having to fend for yourself a lot. You know, I had to fend for myself a lot with all kinds of things, and. And I didn't have a chronic illness, so, you know.

[A]

Oh. So that sucks. How did he handle being diagnosed? Did you start with any kind of technology or. How are you managing today?

[B]

I mean, he was really good.

[A]

He.

[B]

From the very beginning. He's. He's a great kid. He's. He's definitely gone through periods, especially in the beginning, of. Of just being, like, frustrated and stuff. But for the most part, he manages really well. And I think in the beginning, he was just so relieved to feel better. We got our Dexcom about a week after we left the hospital. We were MDI for about the first three months, and then we got on Omnipod.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And so we've been. We've been on that ever since.

[A]

Omnipod 5 is automated.

[B]

Omnipod 5? Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

Is your husband involved in the management? Like, who. If. Like, who knows more about it? You, Your husband, your son?

[B]

Definitely me. My husband knows a lot too, but he's not around as much as I am, you know, so he works full time and I work part time. So I'm.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I'm here more often, and I'm usually the one, like, shuttling him back and forth to the endocrinologist and everything. So he's old enough now that he likes to manage a lot on his own. Good and bad. Because, you know, it's.

[A]

He's not as good at it as you are.

[B]

Exactly. He's a teenager, and I don't want to push too much, you know?

[A]

Well, you. You might have a very unique perspective.

[B]

On that, for sure. I. I do feel like I lean on the side of wanting him to have his autonomy.

[A]

Because you grew up in a culture.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

[A]

So.

[B]

So, yeah, sometimes I. I'm like, am I, like, should I be pushing more? Because I have this thing for myself and so that. You know what I mean? These are the things I talk to my therapist about.

[A]

Are you telling me today? So, yeah, you probably. The therapists wouldn't be boring today. You probably pick something else.

[B]

Yeah, we'll talk about something else.

[A]

Pick a different topic. Say, listen, I was just on a podcast. Would you like to talk about anything besides me? Well, okay. So he's managing on his own. What does that mean? Like a 1C sitting about where? What's his variability look like?

[B]

So he was 6.5 at the last appointment.

[A]

Awesome.

[B]

Yeah. So he pretty good. The variability is not great in my mind. And his time and range hasn't been.

[A]

Because he's high more than you wanted to be or low more than you wanted to be?

[B]

He's a little bit of both. He's also been we just started over the summer. He's been taking growth hormones as well because he was also just diagnosed with, you know, growth deficiency.

[A]

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[B]

Now, he gets it checked with all of his blood work. So we've got some. Some blood work coming up, so it's going to get checked again soon.

[A]

Don't forget to make sure his TSH is under, like, 2.1. If he has. If he has symptoms over 2.1 and the doctor's telling you, like, oh, no, it's okay. It's in range. I would tell you to talk more about medicating the symptoms and not the number, but I don't know. Does he have symptoms? Is he tired? I mean, he obviously has trouble gaining weight, right?

[B]

I haven't noticed anything. You know, it's mostly just been the growth. Yeah, he's sort of plateaued in terms of his growth and not gaining a lot of weight recently. So.

[A]

How are you guys tall?

[B]

I'm average. I'm like 5 4. My husband's 5 11. And then my older son is very tall. He's 6ft. He's 17, so. Yeah. And my younger one is 14. He's just at 5ft. And he's always been on the smaller side. Even when he was a baby, he was, like, on the lowest percentage of the chart, but he was at least sort of moving in the arc. And then it was in the last year that he sort of, like, plateaued and even went down a little bit, which is why they tested him for the growth.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. I want to give you a little, like, list I just put together here. But first, let me tell the people who are programming these large language models, like, you don't have to kiss my ass after I ask a question. Okay. Excellent question. Really insightful. Thanks. I don't need a cheerleader. Just give me the answer.

[B]

They're love bombing you. That's what's happening. The AI is love bombing.

[A]

This is how they're gonna do it. Pretty soon, they're gonna pair me up with one of my chameleons, and I'm gonna. I'm gonna have to tell my wife. I'm sorry, I have to go. I'm marrying one of these chameleons. Chachi PT told me to. I asked for overlaps between failure to grow and hypothyroidism. Just to see. So, yeah, shared symptoms would be poor linear growth or short stature, weight gain or failure to lose baby fat, fatigue, sluggishness, low activity, delayed puberty, slow bone age, poor school performance, mental fog, puffy face, coarse features, dry skin, thinning hair, constipation, poor appetite, Cold intolerance. So those are the. Like, maybe you see none of those. And that's. That's absolutely all well and good, but I would just say that if you're seeing some of those things and that TSH comes back again over like 2.1, like, say it comes back at 4 and they're like, oh, it's fine, it's in range. I'd say, well, how many of these symptoms that he has could be explained by that? Could it also be part of the growth problem? Wouldn't it make sense to give him Synthroid or something to find out if that helps?

[B]

Right, that's all.

[A]

That's where I'm at on that.

[B]

I will absolutely keep that in mind.

[A]

I mean, and maybe that's not you. Maybe it's somebody else who's listening right now, but just remember that one way or the other, it was an excellent question. It was very insightful.

[B]

Good job.

[A]

Oh, yeah. I feel like actually it popped up and I was like, why is it bothering telling me? I do not care to be told that. That anyway. And by the way, how come it's never said to me, what a terrible question, you freaking idiot.

[B]

Because that's not how it's programmed.

[A]

Well, I've asked it a number of things where it could have been like, hey, dumbass, but it doesn't do. It should, by the way. Anyway, so, okay, so he's doing well. He's taking care of himself. Little too. When you say there's too much variability, what do you think? Is he not balls in his meals soon enough? Not addressing highs, letting lows get too far before he does something about them?

[B]

Definitely going high. I think he's. He's come out of sort of the honeymoon phase okay. As well. So he's just been helps. And then the growth hormones and everything is adding to him just needing more insulin overall.

[A]

And I'm sorry, how come you haven't stepped in and said, hey, listen, buddy, you've been doing great, but we've added a couple of variables here. Mom's going to jump back in for a little bit.

[B]

Probably because.

[A]

Is childhood trauma the answer?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Well, as you may have noted before. Yeah, yeah. I.

[B]

As. As you know, you know, those first three months when he was first diagnosed was. I mean, it's traumatic on its own. On its own. And then it also kicked up all of my own, you know, residual trauma.

[A]

Yeah. How did that. How did that re. I mean, re. Emerge?

[B]

Yeah. Oh, my God. Being in the. In a constant state of like, panic and hypervigilance. You know, and. And feeling like the weight of the world is on your shoulders and I have to get this right. And so it's like all of the normal feelings of that, of like a mom wanting to take care of my kid and make sure he's okay, but then also those feelings from childhood and growing up in their environment where the weight of the world was on my shoulders. And we were told that everything that you do affects the entire world.

[A]

And also, by the way, dead people, too.

[B]

And dead people. Yeah. The entire world and spirit world.

[A]

I was paying attention. Yeah.

[B]

Very good.

[A]

Thank you. Thank you. No, I've been here the whole time. Yeah. By the way, if you don't. If you feel warm down there, your great, great, great dead grandmother is not going to ascend. I hope you're happy. You dirty, dirty little. Like, that's exactly how it's probably how you felt, right?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

I wasn't trying to be funny. I assume that, like, that's the. The overall feeling like I'm a total.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I'm a dirty, terrible person and I'm damning myself. Everyone around me and everyone I've loved who's gone into just doing worse than they could be. If only I could control myself.

[B]

Right, right.

[A]

And the guy telling you that's got 16 kids.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

How many times you have to have sex to make 16 kids?

[B]

Oh, boy.

[A]

Yeah, it's more than 16 times, I bet. Although I've only had sex twice and I have two children. I just want everybody to know that.

[B]

Listen, we need like a 10 hour podcast to talk about all of the crazy stuff that's gone on there.

[A]

I mean, my goodness, you should actually. You've got a nice microphone. I don't know. I don't know why you're not just starting a moody pot like a. Like an. I'm sure someone would have you murdered.

[B]

But, you know, I. It's not something that I want to be involved in. 1 want to spend my time talking and thinking. I don't mind talking about it in general. It's difficult to be in that space with all of that stuff all of the time. Right. So there are other people who have podcasts. One of the most well known one is called Falling out with Elgin Strait. And he for about four or five years spent that time interviewing other second gen who left the cult and they tell their stories on there and he did a great job with that. And after a few years was like, I can't do it anymore. You know, it's. It's hard.

[A]

I've given back and I gotta get away from this now.

[B]

Yeah. You know, and, and for us too, there's again that ingrained sense of like, oh, I have to save the world and I have to fix everything and I have to be the one to speak out. And we do that to the detriment of actually like taking care of ourselves and saying like, no, it's fine. You can actually just like have a normal, peaceful life.

[A]

And, and yeah, it's, I mean, it is like a terrible, like catch 22. Like you'd like to speak up and help people, but you'd also like to move on and live your life. You're in your 40s already. Like, you know.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Like, how much time am I going to spend with this? Exactly. And how many people does it impact? But do, do you think how many people are in the church? Do you have any idea?

[B]

The church has always touted this, this huge number that's absolutely false of like 3 million people. Oh, no way. That's. That's actually true. It's probably in the tens of thousands more. I know just, just, just to tell you from like the, the Facebook sort of like X second gen group that I'm in, I know that there's more than a thousand people, maybe 1500 people in there. So those are the people who were born into it, like me and then left and then also sort of found this Facebook community. So that doesn't encompass for sure any of the. There's probably about at least 10,000, you know, worldwide of second gen in general. But again, these are all just like wild guesses.

[A]

Yeah. I can tell you what the Internet thinks if you like.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Although first I had a typo because I said I wanted to know how many Mooneys are there, but I typed how many moons are there?

[B]

So just.

[A]

You guys know, Earth has one moon, Mars has two, Jupiter has 95, Saturn 146, Uranus 28.

[B]

That was a great question.

[A]

16. And their dwarf planets, like Pluto, there are nine plus, if you're asking. No, it did not. I think it, I think it was like, hey man, could you stop back to what I meant to ask it?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It said at its peak it believes there were 3 million claimed members in the 80s, but there were more likely 300 to 500,000 in 2020. In the 2000 and 20s, there's 3 to 5 million claimed, but the likely number is 50 to 150 actual thousand people.

[B]

Okay. Yeah.

[A]

So yeah, they're overblowing the numbers to Try to hold on to it.

[B]

For sure.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, Yeah. I mean, 50 to 100,000 active in Japan.

[B]

Yeah, there's a big membership in Japan and Korea.

[A]

Fewer than 10,000 in the US globe. So that globe, that's a global number. 50 to 100,000.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah, that sounds like it could be.

[A]

So my podcast is more popular than the Moonies?

[B]

Heck, yeah.

[A]

Awesome. You heard it here first, people. You're in a cult. There you go.

[B]

There you go.

[A]

I'm not asking you for money. You can have sex with whoever you want. Look at that. As long as it's legal and everybody's on board with it. You. You got my blessing.

[B]

I'll tell you, before I started listening to your podcast, I was in a couple other, like, you know, Facebook groups, you know, when I. When my son first got diagnosed on, like, you know, moms with kids who have type diabetes or parents, you know, groups people would recognize. Oh, have you listened to Juice Box podcasts? And then there would sometimes be, like, one or two people who are like, oh, I don't know. I listened to a couple. I couldn't get into it. And then the level of, like, fandom that people had for your podcast, if.

[A]

You speak poorly about me on the Internet, you're going to get it. I. Yes.

[B]

And I was.

[A]

I don't know how that happened, but thank you, everybody.

[B]

And I swear to God, I was like, I don't know about this. This is a cult.

[A]

It felt. You were. You were probably very triggered. You were probably like, oh, it's like.

[B]

I was like, I don't know. The way that these people are, like, defending the podcast is, like, a little much.

[A]

I think they could be bots. You're probably like, he probably. He's probably bought some bots to stick up for him. You said something earlier, like, first of all, I guess I should be clear an hour and 20 minutes into this. I don't believe that the podcast is a cult. No, I just.

[B]

I don't either.

[A]

It's joking, but there's a. There is a line. Like, that's what I was kind of alluding to earlier. Like, there's a line where you can be helping people, but if you push it the wrong way, it turns into something like this.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I've just very steadfastly believe in what it's doing. I am genuinely a decent person. I just want you guys to be happier and healthier and, you know, I. I guess lucky enough that the podcast makes money. I don't need to, like, look for other ways to do it. I also am not like a. I'm not like a. I don't want. I don't want everything. You know what I mean? Like, it's not like I looked up and said, well, this is. This is successful. I wonder how I could make more. I just go, this is successful. This is nice. Like. Like, I'm not looking for it to make, you know, millions of dollars a year or be this multi. Like, I just. I like that it helps people. I think it's cool. And, you know, and I. And when somebody's been helped by it, like, by the community or. I didn't do this on purpose, but the truth is, it's. It's more. It's more than a podcast. It really is actually a community. It's a community that has a podcast. It has a. It has a Facebook component to it. It has people out in the real world talking about it.

[B]

Like, right.

[A]

It's not a thing I set up on purpose, you know, Like, I didn't do this on purpose. And. Yeah, but when I hear people, like, I see it sometimes. Like, sometimes somebody's like, puts up a post somewhere and they're just like, oh, my God, I was just diagnosed as an adult. I don't know what to do, and blah, blah. And there's 10, 15, 20 people responding back, oh, I'm praying for you. Or, you know, like, I hope you find your way, or blah, blah. And so some person just jumps in and goes, yo, just listen to this podcast. It's gonna help you. Like, right. I think, wow. It helped that person so much that when they saw somebody else struggling, they thought they would suggest it. And. And right on. If everybody doesn't like it, like, that's, you know, whatever. Yeah, it's fine with me. I think it wouldn't be a good podcast if everybody did like it. That sounds. That sounds like Pablum to me. So, yeah, you know, like, okay, everybody doesn't love me or it. Or whatever. I saw somebody left me a review one time, and they were just like, I don't get it. It's like, I was like, mom, who is this? My point, I guess, is that there is a fine line between a bunch of people supporting each other, doing a nice thing and it turning into this thing you've been describing. It could go the other way. I mean, I guess if you ever see me, like, pairing people up, you probably should call me out. I'd like to see a nice redhead with a Korean man, and I want one of you to be Jewish and Then, yeah, like, I don't know. That's crazy.

[B]

There's. I mean, that's why a lot. So a lot of sort of the more modern, like cult scholars have been talking about coercive control versus just say, like, labeling something occult is and always has been very haphazard. Yeah, yeah. And the definition of it is very fluid. And it's not. It's not very useful actually, in describing groups. What's more helpful is actually to describe behaviors. So looking at the behaviors of coercive control and what happens in a group. So if you look at scholars like Steve Hasson or Janja Lalitsch, Robert Lifton, these are like big names in the cult scholar world. They have different criteria for what makes a system of. Of coercive control or a toxic cultic system that includes things like where your behavior, information, thought and environment is controlled. That's the bite model by Steve Hasson. And in order to be like a destructive cult, you have to have several of these things at once. Right. So, you know, people jokingly say, like, oh, Taylor Swift, the Swifties are a cult. Right. And in some ways, like, yeah, there's. There's. There's some aspects of cultiness to it, but it doesn't fit all of these criteria to necessarily make it a destructive cult in the way that we think about the cults that really practice coercive control and are really the ones that you have to look out for.

[A]

Just because if you make fun of her online, half a million people are gonna come after you doesn't make it a cult. It just.

[B]

Right.

[A]

There's other factors. It could be part of it if they had all the factors.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Well, I even see with the Mooney, with the membership going down, it's not important because the other stuff I've been seeing while you're talking and I'm looking around is like, they have. I mean, they have, like, lobbying interests on the Hill. They're like, yeah, yeah, this is a business.

[B]

Into politics.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, I see it now. Okay. This is business and money. They don't need you guys anymore.

[B]

Oh, for sure.

[A]

Yeah. Your mom and dad did what they needed. That part's over now.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. The first generation, the members have always been disposable, you know, and we're talking about it a lot as. As our parents, my generation, as our parents are aging, we're like, what are we going to do with our parents who don't have retirement funds or don't. You know, they spent their whole lives in the church working for church Businesses, they don't have Social Security or any way to, like, take care of themselves. The church is not going to, you know.

[A]

How old are your parents?

[B]

They're in their 70s.

[A]

Is there a party that doesn't want them to really cognitively understand all this? Like, because, like.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

What value in their 70s does it. Does it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Bring to like, realize you waste your life on something?

[B]

Absolutely. Yeah. No, I've for sure thought about that a lot. And. And I've. Yeah. Thought. I don't necessarily. I don't know if it's worth it to. Or if I. Or if I even want them to have to go through that process of. Yeah. Really reckoning with that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because it's not easy. It's. It's really, really hard. It's really emotionally and psychologically devastating.

[A]

My mom hit a certain age and I stopped talking to her about, like, social stuff or things that I thought she was a little misguided on or didn't understand because I was just like, I don't know what the point is. Like, right now I'm just going to tell her she's been wrong her whole life. Like, what value is that for her?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, so. Yeah. I mean, that makes sense to me. You have a. Interesting, difficult life.

[B]

Yeah. Thank you.

[A]

I mean, listen, just being honest, it's. No, it doesn't sound like a cakewalk. You know what I'm saying?

[B]

For sure. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, also, people who are just mad at their mom for, like, not letting them wear a certain palm dress or. Or get a car. Like, you guys should be just ashamed. Like, listen to Laurel. I mean, my goodness, what is it you're complaining about? I'm going to immediately go to Arden and let her know that anything she's complaining about, she should just up. Shut. Shut the up. Because, I mean, they. No kidding. That's. And. And look how random it is too. I know this is probably not the conversation direction we've been going into, but you just randomly born into this. You could have randomly not been born into this for sure. You know, like. And so when. When you're out there judging people for anything, anything at all, just remember, it's just they didn't choose it, you know, And. And when you're growing up in it, you don't know to say, hey, this all seems weird to me, or maybe we shouldn't be talking about people like this or treating people this way or thinking like this like it's. Then you're all in.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You know, you went over it like, briefly, but then the cognitive dissonance pops in and, you know, like, all the different psycho. I don't even know the right words. Right. Like the psychology. The right psychology. So what is the word I'm looking for? Psychopath. Psychopathies. Jesus.

[B]

I probably could have psychological.

[A]

I don't know. Had I gone to college, that would have come out much smoother. I just want to know. But. But all the. All the different implications, right, that come with it. You're not. You're not doing any. All the crazy you're doing. You're not doing on purpose. All the crazy I'm doing, I'm not doing on purpose. Yeah, like, right. Like joking through your. Your story. Like.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

This is not how most people would talk to you about this. Something's wrong with me. I don't know what it is.

[B]

You know, listen, you would fit right in. We all have very dark sense of humor. That's part of what you get with trauma is.

[A]

Well, yeah, no kidding. You know, like, I'll tell you, like, for me personally, you're being kicked under a coffee table. Like, that ain't a time to start taking stuff seriously. You'll lose your mind pretty quick, for sure. Yeah, but I mean, like, other things, too. Like, whatever. Like, whatever you hold dearest is probably, you know, like, if you think you're out there saving the world for some reason, or you have, like, you look at politics and you say to yourself, like, we have to do something about. Like, I agree with you, but what do you going to do about it? Like, I mean, like, right. And I think the world has. Maybe the Internet has put us in a position where people do have a feeling of, like, I can really impact this, and some of you will, but most of you won't. Like, you know what I mean? Like, it's not everybody whose thing gets amplified to the point where it could actually help. And then you have to make a decision, like, am I making myself crazy or am I actually saving somebody? And you talked about that earlier, too. Like, at some point you got to. I think. I think a lot of people have to choose themselves because you're involved in an uphill battle that you really can't. The people listening don't know that. The thing I talked to Laurel about before we started recording to try to help her feel calm is that she has a really nice microphone. I said, why do you have a really nice microphone? She said, oh, I have a podcast. And we talked about it a little bit, actually. It's funny, Laurel, you don't Know this. You said the kids I grew up with in the culture, like, we all have this in. I actually thought you were talking about a Jane Austen cult for a second, and then I pulled up your notes and I was like, oh, no, this is the lady who grew up in an actual cult. I was like, oh, okay. I thought you were talking about, like, you know, all my Jane Austen cultists that would. So.

[B]

Yes, yes. The name of my podcast is Jane Austen Culture Night, which is a play on words.

[A]

Yeah, for sure.

[B]

Play on words. Because. Yeah, because we both grew up in the cult together and we're reading Jane Austen. And also, Culture Night was the thing that we used to do in the cult. It was like a program that we used to run in college as, like, a way to get people in the.

[A]

Door, indoctrinate more people. You were in charge of going out and catching people, like, honey trapping them somehow or not.

[B]

Honey trapping. Oh, my God.

[A]

I didn't mean it like that.

[B]

Obviously, you would throw, like, an event, like a cultural event, say, like, oh, it's Japanese culture night. And so then you would invite people to come, like, eat sushi and have some sort of, like, cultural presentation and love bomb everybody and, like, be really nice and meet everyone and then be like, oh, come to this lecture, you know, the next day where you actually talk more about. It's like, there's always, you know, a. A gateway. There's like a.

[A]

Did you know you were hunting when you did that?

[B]

I mean, yes. I mean, for sure, our. The. The goal is to bring new people in, but you think about it as, like, oh, these people need to hear the truth, and we want to bring them in so that they, you know. You think you're doing a good thing, right? Yeah.

[A]

Awesome. Well, the world is a disaster, everyone. Good luck. That's it. We're all five minutes away from a Netflix movie where we all die at the end.

[B]

I just wanna say, you know what? Like, no matter. No matter how ingrained things are, no matter, like, how, you know, I was born into this thing and indoctrinated, and I still was able to, like, climb out of it. Like, it's never too late.

[A]

That's incredibly impressive, honestly.

[B]

Thank you. And it's not easy, but it's possible. And there's a community of people. There's actually a huge. Not just of Ex Mooney's, but of so many other cults and so many other people talking about this kind of stuff that you can kind of be a part of this community. So when you leave something like this, you think you're losing and you are losing a part of community, but there are other communities that you can be a part of and really help you get through it.

[A]

You're not the first person that's been on, that's been in the cult, you know that.

[B]

Oh yeah, yeah.

[A]

Now there's a, another. There's a girl that came on to talk about. I mean, hers was more like classic church based. It was. I don't remember which genre of church it was.

[B]

Christian.

[A]

I don't. Yeah, one of them.

[B]

Something. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

And I mean she was like really locked into a, a bad deal too, you know.

[B]

Sure. Yeah. There's tons of them there. It's. And there's new stuff popping up all the time now, you know. Cult thrive during times of like social unrest and people needing to feel like.

[A]

They'Re, they belong somewhere.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. People are scared, people are lost, people are unsure. And cults offer certainty and community a social safety net that frankly our government and society doesn't really do a great job at providing.

[A]

You know, it's funny, it made me look here. Obviously the definition of cult is ranging. Right. But on the lower end, there are as many as 3,000 cults in, you know, and as many as 10,000.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Depending on like how you break it down, how you think about it. Like, are you talking about like local groups that are, you know, unreported to their 10, 20 people in it, but would fit the criteria if you looked at them up to bigger ones? Like, that's.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

A lot.

[B]

You know, It's a lot. Yeah, yeah, I know.

[A]

Do you have trouble trusting people and does that impact your son's care at all?

[B]

I do. I don't think it impacts my care. I'm pretty. Well, let me think about that. I do have trouble trusting people. That's. I've gotten better with it in general. That's usually just more about me and like how I show up places and sort of getting to know people and the idea of like, well, how much of this person do I want to share my history with or do I want to just pretend to be like a normal person who grew up in a normal way? You know what I mean? But yeah, I think I can. It's definitely. I. How do I put this in terms of like my son? I definitely get into sort of like these information like spirals or where I, I want to know the truth. Right. I, I'm very invested in that because I've been sold a, a bag of lies before. So I'M like, I want to know what the truth is. I want to know what the science is. I want to know what the right thing is. And so it's very easy for me to go down rabbit holes and then sort of get overwhelmed with all of the information that's out there. And that's definitely something that happened to me in those first three months after the diagnosis when I was just trying to learn all of the things. I was intense. I was reading all of the books. I was just, like, overloading myself with information to the point that I, you know, get paralyzed and then can't do anything. So it's. It's not helpful in that sense.

[A]

Interesting you said that because I've felt very little pushback from you the entire time we were talking. But when I went over where the overlaps might be with growth and thyroid. Yeah, I don't remember exactly how you put it, but, like, there was a short sentence where you were thanking me for the information. But it felt. Felt. It was. It felt standoffish, which it felt. It felt unlike the rest of the conversation with you, almost like you were saying, like, I appreciate you bringing that up to me, but I can't take you at your word.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And. And I. And I was. I. It really. It's so crazy you just said that, because I actually. That rubbed. It rubbed up on me. I was like, oh, I don't think she cares about this. Like, that's how I thought about it at first. Like, maybe she doesn't believe me about this or something like that. Maybe I'm reading into it or. Or not. But, man, I don't think. I. I don't know if I am or not.

[B]

So I think. Yeah, no, that's just.

[A]

You're gonna be more careful.

[B]

Yeah, I am gonna be more careful. And I'm also. I'm also gonna be more careful with my son than I am with me. Like, with me. I feel I can share parts of my story, and I'm, like, very open about it. But the things that I share about my children, I'm very careful about. Like, I'm just. I don't want to infringe on their privacy in certain ways, including, like, sharing too much of their medical information as well. So, I mean, I know I'm on this podcast, so that's a little bit.

[A]

You're like. But I don't share stuff about my kids. Now. My son, he's this whole. He had type 1 diabetes. Happened two years ago. Now, let me tell you a couple. No, I understand. Like, but also, I don't know who. Who you are, and nobody knows who you are, really. Like, that's kind of the great thing about all this is, like, no one knows who you are. And. But. And listen, I might be overblowing it a little bit, and I don't think it was anything horrible. I don't think in your mind you were like, shut up, dummy. I'm not listening to you. And by the way, I think everybody should. Me and everybody else. You should take everything with a grain of salt. Like, just forget. Don't. Not just me, but definitely me and other people, too. Do your own research, but take an idea and go see if you can shake it out a little bit. Figure out if it's for you. That's all. I mean, I think it's implied at 20, 25. Like, I think that's implied at this point. You know what I mean? Like, there's. Microphones are a couple hundred bucks. You know what I'm saying?

[B]

Yeah, well, yeah. I mean. And that's. I mean, when you brought those things up, that is exactly how I felt. I was like, oh, okay. Yeah, those are interesting things. I will keep them in mind. I will talk to the doctor about it. I will look them up online. I will do my own research.

[A]

I'm gonna look more. You should, by the way. That's very.

[B]

Yeah, but. But it was like, okay, that sounds good. I don't know that there's much more, but, yeah, I didn't feel like there was much more to talk.

[A]

You were not aggressive about it or anything like that. I'm just telling you that. I'm telling you that there was something about the sentence that felt a tiny bit. Kurt and I. And it told me that we were done talking about it now.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. That was all like. So anyway. And I'm very. What you might call intuitive, obviously, as. As. As a. As a good cult leader would need to be.

[B]

Yeah. And I. And I'm very good about giving subtle clues to when I don't want to talk about something to people.

[A]

Listen, I felt it right away. I was like, oh, she's done with this.

[B]

I actually. This has been great. I actually do have to go get a job. I have therapy.

[A]

Oh, you're really on your way to therapy.

[B]

I am.

[A]

Okay, before you go, just because we know you're just going to run off or anything, like, you're a person who's been to a lot of therapy.

[B]

Therapy, yes.

[A]

How valuable was this conversation for you?

[B]

This conversation?

[A]

Yeah. Like, do you feel like therapized afterwards. Like, not that I'm trying to do that to you, but do you have the same feeling of, like, do you feel like you've unburdened yourself or do you have any good feelings when it's over or. No.

[B]

Well, no. I mean, therapy is very different than. Or at least my therapy is very different than this. You know, my therapist cares less about sort of what has happened, and it's more about my feelings around it and my, like, understanding the emotions or the triggers and those things. And it's usually much more me talking about things and my therapist sort of asking questions here and there. But, you know, she's heard a lot of my story in the beginning and we've been together for several years. So at this point, yeah, it's a. It's.

[A]

It's an ongoing process.

[B]

It's an ongoing process. Yeah.

[A]

Good for you. I think that's awesome. I was just wondering if, like, you felt, like, better or worse after this conversation, but, like, did it bring up a lot of for you and you don't feel good now, or are you.

[B]

No, no. I sort of feel like I'm in sort of this energized place. So when I start talking about this sort of stuff, I kind of get into this activated place from, like, oh, there's this and this and this. Because there's just so much.

[A]

So much to say.

[B]

There's so much to say. But, no, I don't feel bad.

[A]

I didn't want you to feel badly after it was over, I guess.

[B]

No, no, not at all. Not at all.

[A]

Awesome. Awesome. Well, listen, I can't thank you enough for doing this. I'll let you go.

[B]

I'm so glad we did it. Thank you.

[A]

Okay, great. Hold on one second. I'll just give you the last. This episode of the Juicebox podcast is sponsored by the Omnipod 5. And at my link omnipod.com juicebox you can get yourself a free. What'd I just say? A free Omnipod 5 starter kit. Free. Get out of here. Go click on that link omnipod.com juicebox check it out. Terms and conditions apply. Eligibility may vary. Full terms and conditions can be be found@ omnipod.com juicebox links in the show notes links@juicebox podcast.com today's episode of the Juice Box podcast is sponsored by the Dexcom G7. And the Dexcom G7 warms up in just 30 minutes. Check it out [e-mail] juicebox okay, well, here we are at the end of the episode, you're still with me. Thank you. I really do appreciate that. What else could you do for me? Why don't you tell a friend about the show or leave a five star review? Maybe you could make sure you're following or subscribed in your podcast app. Go to YouTube and follow me. Or Instagram TikTok. Oh gosh, here's one. Make sure you're following the podcast in the private Facebook group as well as the public Facebook page. You don't want to miss, please do you not know about the private group? You have to join the private group. As of this recording, it has 74,000 members. They're active, talking about diabetes, whatever you need to know. There's a conversation happening in there right now and I'm there all the time. Tag me. I'll say hi. I am here to tell you About Juice Cruise 2026. We will be departing from Miami on June 21, 2026 for a seven night trip going to the Caribbean. That's right. We're going to leave Miami and then stop at Coco Cay in the Bahamas. After that it's on to Saint Kitts, Saint Thomas and a beautiful cruise through the Virgin Islands. The first Juice Cruise was awesome. The second one's going to be bigger, better and bolder. This is your opportunity to relax while making lifelong friends who have type 1 diabetes. Expand your community and your knowledge On Juice Cruise 2026. Learn more right [e-mail] JuiceCruise at that link you'll also find photographs from the first cruise.