B (2:55)

The conversation, I think, and hopefully, if you're listening, this is true. I think they enjoyed it. My. I did ask a colleague who was in the audience for some feedback, and she agreed with my assessment that I was trying to cram in a lot of information in 45 minutes. So that is partially. And Scott had this idea for us to do this series and really kind of take the time to process and think through a lot of the terms and the stages and the application.

A (3:28)

Awesome. So we'll jump into it.

B (3:29)

Yes.

A (3:29)

Yeah. Tell me about the book.

B (3:31)

Okay, so Body Grief is actually. The book is called this is Body Grief by the author is Jane Mattingley. And she has gone through her own journey of chronic illness and disability and so through her life story. And she's also, I believe she was a social worker and maybe also a therap psychologist. I actually can't remember her credentials, but has worked with clients and patients. So through her own personal journey and working with clients, she created these stages of body grief. And so we, over the next, we're going to be introducing the ideas and concepts today and then over the next few series going through the stages that she has coined and created. And then we will be applying those terms and stages and definitions and looking at them through the lens of living with diabetes.

A (4:30)

Awesome. How did you find her book?

B (4:34)

Well, actually, I was talking in my own therapy and my therapist recommended this book.

A (4:41)

Interesting. Because of your type one.

B (4:44)

Yes. She said, have you heard of this new book? I think it came out last March or April. So that's thanks to my therapist. I was introduced to this book.

A (4:53)

You found it helpful?

B (4:55)

I did. If you do decide to read, takes a long time to get through. It's kind of a. You pick it up and read it and there's some reflections in it. Journaling. So it's. It's a book that you can kind of take your time and read through.

A (5:12)

Awesome. Okay, well, jump right in. I'm going to probably, for people listening, be a little more of a. More of a fly on the wall. Like, oh, I have a question person in this. In this conversation. So you're going to hear a lot from Erica and I want to let her get going, so.

B (5:28)

Okay.

A (5:28)

All right.

B (5:29)

Thanks, Scott. I. In our world, in life, you. We hear these thoughts and you might have had these thoughts yourself, like, why me? Why did this happen, or if only I had eaten something, something different, then this thing would have happened or done something different. So that's the if only I had then mindset. Or my body failed me again, or my pancreas failed me, or who am I without a working pancreas, or who am I without? You could fill in the blank with anything within your body. So those types of thoughts are what we are going to be kind of thinking about. That kind of encapsulates body grief. And so the actual definition of body grief from the book is the sense of loss and mourning that comes with living in an ever changing body. So the sense of loss and mourning that comes with living in an ever changing body. So to start off with body grief is something that every human experiences because we all are living in bodies. And it also can be very personal as we get into kind of, you know, the. The nuts and bolts of it all. So body grief can occur when our body changes in ways that feel like it's out of our control. It feels like we can't go back to the way things were. It feels like it's no longer our own. You might have that experience of feeling like, oh, I won't be able to go back to the way it functioned, the way it looked, the way it felt. And with that sense of loss comes this unraveling of your identity and your sense of self. So this can happen when you get a cold. Right. It's not a big. It can be a big sense of body grief and a small body grief. Right. So when you get a cold or you get an illness or you have a physical injury or surgery, pregnancy, pregnancy, loss, infertility, perimenopause, menopause. I'm acknowledging those are a lot of, maybe more kind of issues that, that women face. But also men go through their own sense of body grief, loss too, with changes in their systems.

A (7:59)

Can it. So can I ask, can it be as. Can it go from functional to just the way you see yourself? Like, you know what I mean? Like, could it. For a guy, could it. Could it go from the range of like erectile dysfunction down to. I just. I'm not as strong as I used to be?

B (8:15)

Yes.

A (8:16)

Really? Okay.

B (8:16)

Yes, yes. While it can be something actual, actually physical, it can be. The way I interpret it is that it can be also a kind of this mindset around your body and what you think it feels, you felt like it could do, but can no longer do.

A (8:36)

Okay, thank you.

B (8:37)

Yes, that's a good question. One of the important things I think to Note is that body grief doesn't go away simply because we don't want to feel it. And we, we might try and ignore it, we might try and fix it. But this, I think the concept that our body grief can't be fixed, it must be felt can be a challenging one. I think if we think about the normal or the grief stages that you might be familiar with already around, for instance, a death which is, they're either five or seven. So denial, shock, depression, anger and acceptance. Those are usually kind of the five grief stages. And these will feel a little bit similar to those we often, I think when we think about grief, we think we're like, well, I just got to go through the grief stages and then I'll be okay.

A (9:39)

Yeah, then you pop out the other side of it, if that's what they tell you.

B (9:43)

Right, right. That's what we want to believe that. Right. Just work the stages. But with body grief and sometimes that might feel true, but we also know that with grief around the death of a loved one, the intensity might change, but it's still, it's still felt that loss.

A (10:01)

Right?

B (10:02)

And so with body grief, and as we think about with diabetes, it's, it is always there. We are always going to be experiencing these little micro moments of loss which we'll get to. So the, we want to think that we can fix it, but we can't. And we, we try and tell ourselves. And you might hear other people say things like, oh, just, you know, just go ahead and eat, like bolus later. Love your body. You are beautiful at any size. Time heals all. At least it's not cancer. Or you are a warrior. You are a T1D or T2D warrior. Right? Like, so we hear these things and now those are all beautiful statements. Those are aphorisms. It's a new vocabulary word. I actually just learned that art. They're, they're, they're well intentioned, they are true. Those are all true statements, right? Like, we can be grateful that at least it's not cancer. But when we hear that or we tell ourselves that we're trying to kind of fix or avoid the feeling of that body grief in that moment.

A (11:14)

Okay. Is it possible that the harsher those statements feel to you, maybe the more intertwined you still are in that grief and that you haven't been able to process it or found a way through it? Because I, I do see people really rub up against some of those. You know what I mean? Like some people who, you know, call somebody a warrior and there's A group of people think it's awesome and then there's somebody in there. It's like, I, I didn't want to be a warrior. I wasn't looking for this. You know, you always hear like different sides of the argument. I wonder if your reaction has a lot to do with where you are in maybe the process that we're talking about today. I know it's kind of an open ended question, but it's what I was wondering while you were, while you were going through that list.

B (11:59)

That's a, that's a really great point.

A (12:01)

Yeah.

B (12:02)

I think the, the intensity of your response might vary, but yes. Based on where you are, how close you are to the, that grief. But it also can hit just like because we aren't going to go through the stages and be done. It can affect you in ways that you might be surprised. You're like, wow, I thought that didn't bother me anymore. And then all of a sudden, right. This person is telling me, you can't eat that or can you? Or can you eat that or gosh, you have type one, but it's not cancer. I'm like, well, actually, you know.

A (12:39)

Yeah. And you get a reoccurrence of that feeling again, right?

B (12:42)

Yes. I think that, I think it's important to bring up these types of statements because instead of giving, allowing ourselves to feel what we're actually feeling, we're trying to hold on to some of these truths. But they also don't give you any room to feel the intensity of the, whatever the emotion is. And I think that the T1D warrior slogan I think is, is, yes, so beautiful. But also doesn't. Depending on the time. Right. Like we. I will share, you know, as I've shared before growing up, it was like, okay, you can do all things. Don't let diabetes stop you. You're going to achieve all your goals. And we hear that narrative and there's nothing wrong with that. That's a beautiful narrative. But when your child or yourself, you actually don't want it, or you're feeling angry or you're feeling really sad about having it, if that's the only thing that you're allowed to feel or think or say, it pushes down these other feelings, but they're still there.

A (13:52)

You have to be ready to accept the idea. Right. You can't just, it's not a thing someone just says to you, oh, you know, if you just blah, blah, blah, then it'll all be okay. You have to, there has to be a. I would imagine Amount of time and consideration. You have to be in the right head space. You're making me think a lot about a gentleman that I interviewed the other day who is blind. He's not just legally blind. He put it as I'm in the dark blind. And I don't think I've spoken to anybody with a better attitude in a long time. And I just asked him, I was like, how do you get to this? And his answer was, his answer was his faith, honestly. But I would imagine it doesn't matter how you get there as long as you can, I mean, transcend the moment and ascend to that idea. I don't know. I want you to keep going. It was making me thinking about him a lot because he just was. He had described so many of these different grieving processes and things that he lost along the way. But then his attitude, what he was saying, how he actually felt, didn't, didn't carry any of the, what you would think was obvious anger or sadness that you could have in that situation. So anyway, I don't that why I brought that up.

B (15:13)

So he's on his own journey of processing and getting to a place at peace.

A (15:21)

Yeah. And he got there, you know, but by his description, in my opinion, he's there. So. Okay, I'm sorry, please.

B (15:29)

Oh, that's good.

A (15:30)

Yeah.

B (15:31)

So as we remember, you know that the definition of body grief, the sense of loss and mourning that comes with living in an ever changing body, as we layer that definition over the lens of diabetes, we experience loss, these micro moments of loss. And again, this might feel really insignificant or a lot bigger to you based on the moment or the day or as a caregiver, how you're bolusing, you know, with the loss around that for yourself.

A (16:03)

Right.

B (16:04)

So the loss of being able to eat, exercise, sleep and live without thinking about the blood sugar, do you. And do loss of even time as we think about it too around do I have my insulin, my blood sugar kit, my carbs? And then we also might experience loss as we think about all the unseen aspects of managing diabetes. We are probably familiar with these stats around the 180 plus decisions a day, the 40 plus variables that we're considering every time we bolus the device management, you know, every time you have a pump or CGM malfunction or it's sight change day, or maybe you even receive a comment about your devices, you beep in class or in a meeting and the heads turn, you have the constant, you know, the, the stigma. And again we'll get into a lot of these topics throughout the series, but there's the stigma and misconception. So every time someone says something that feels like they're trying to be they're trying to be compassionate and encouraging, but it just kind of lands is ignorant. You might be experiencing that micro moment of grief, of body grief, right?

A (17:38)

Anytime any of these things happen, it's as if there's a small megaphone in the back of your head reminding you like something doesn't work right and it's.

B (17:46)

It's.

A (17:46)

And it's you. Your body doesn't work right. And even if you can separate yourself from you in your thoughts and you in your shell, it's still you, right? So by my pancreas isn't working correctly and therefore this happened. That's not my fault. I didn't do anything to oh that that does give I've I've long I've long wondered a number of things that people fight against. One of them is how vociferously you'll hear type ones make the argument make sure you understand that type 1 diabetes wasn't like a dietary or a lifestyle choice. And I always think why do they care? But this is why they care. Because then these other impacts come in from the outside and then those what probably feel like attacks, whether they're meant that way or not, are felt as a reminder that my body doesn't do a thing it's supposed to do. Contour next.com juicebox that's the link you'll use to find out more about the Contour Next Gen Blood glucose Meter when you get there, there's a little bit at the top you can click right on. Blood glucose monitoring. I'll do it with you. Go to meters. Click on any of the meters. I'll click on the next gen and you're going to get more information. It's easy to use and highly accurate. Smart Light provides a simple understanding of your blood glucose levels. And of course, with Second Chance sampling technology, you can save money with fewer wasted test strips. As if all that wasn't enough, the Contour Next Gen also has a compatible app for an easy way to share and see your blood glucose results. Contornext.com juicebox and if you scroll down at that link, you're going to see things like a Buy now button. You could register your meter after you purchase it or what is this? Download a coupon? Oh, receive a free contour Next Gen blood glucose meter? Do tell. Contour next.com juicebox Head over there. Now get the same accurate and reliable meter that we use. Today's episode is sponsored by Medtronic Diabetes, who is making life with diabetes easier with the MiniMed 780G system. The MiniMed 780G automated insulin delivery system anticipates, adjusts and corrects every five minutes. Real world results show people achieving up to 80% time and range with recommended settings without increasing lows. But of course individual results may vary. The 780G works around the clock so you can focus on what matters. Have you heard about Medtronic's extended Infusion set? It's the first and only infusion set labeled for up to a seven day wear. This feature is repeatedly asked for and Medtronic has delivered. 97% of people using the 780G reported that they could manage their diabetes without major disruptions of sleep. They felt more free to eat what they wanted and they felt less stress with fewer alarms and alerts. You can't beat that. Learn more about how you can spend less time and effort managing your diabetes by visiting medtronicdiabetes.com juicebox yes, and then.

B (20:58)

You can get stuck in that stage of my body failed me and you kind of bounce and again right. You're queuing up really well these great stages and themes around how do we what happens when we get stuck in that my body failed me mindset. So as we're kind of we you, you guys know all of the, the details of managing whether it's for yourself or your child, all of these micro moments of perceive of loss, it's not even perceived loss, it can be felt as real loss. They this whole mental load can contribute and become the terms that we've defined before diabetes distress and diabetes burnout. And I thought it would be interesting just to pause here and kind of review the definitions of distress and burnout. And one and I just kind of want to think about is that our. Is diabetes distress and burnout our version of body grief or because of that do we experience body grief? And that might sound confusing as I kind of introduce it, but the you know, diabetes distress is the emotional response to living with diabetes, right? The burden of the relentless. This is from the ADA definition the relentless daily self management, the prospect of or reality of its long term complications, the social impact which is the stigma, discrimination, unhelpful, you know, reactions from people, the financial implications of from you know, insurance treatment, et cetera. So that's distress is like this emotional response to living with diabetes that every single person living with diabetes has experienced once if not many times. It is very normal. And also the caregiver can have diabetes distress versus diabetes burnout, which is oftentimes just described as distress can lead to burnout, but doesn't have to go that way. And this is more that the state right. In which this is From Beyond Type 1, in which someone with diabetes grows tired of managing their condition and they just simply ignore it and for a period of time or forever. And this can look like having strong negative feelings, you're overwhelmed, you're frustrated, you have these thoughts that you're being controlled by diabetes, you feel really alone. You're either isolating because of the burnout or vice versa. And you're avoiding doctor's appointments, other planned things that are helpful for you. So as we think about distress and burnout, again, I just wonder how much of this, of these two terms do we experience because we're trying to fix or ignore or push down the body grief stages and feelings? Or is it all, is it all? Maybe it's not even important to understand which comes first or are they intertwined? And I'm not posing these questions to incite shame. Like if you don't, if you don't go through the body grief stages and feel your feelings, that's why you're in burnout. That's not at all what I'm suggesting. But I just wonder to kind of just hold that question for us to kind of mull over as we work through the stages. Does that make sense?

A (24:38)

It does. I am also really enjoying how you've taken this, this book that was introduced to you for personal reasons and found the through lines to diabetes. This is really, this is lovely what you've done here. Thank you.

B (24:52)

Well, thank you. It's been helpful for, for me personally because I think one of the other things, as you asked in the beginning, when we hear those types of thoughts or comments, are they going to hit us differently or land us, you know, land for us differently based on where we are in our journey. I think that's one of the beautiful things to have. The reason why I really appreciate these terms and stages, not only does it give us vocabulary to normalize what we're going through because we can feel like. I've lived with type one for 35 plus years now, but when something happens, whether it's diabetes related or not or a new complication or a new physical injury, you absolutely can go through and experience body grief in a separate way. So I guess I'm just bringing that up that it's yes, we can, we're going to be talking about through diabetes. But it's also really helpful as we think about our universal experience.

A (25:56)

And do you think this is a kind of an exploded view because the diabetes is so I guess, ever present. But this is. If you've been no contact with diabetes or chronic illness, you're still experiencing this stuff. Probably just not at the same rate. But you said something earlier that probably sounded so simple. But I took it deeper when you said we all have a body and everyone's body is changing and slowly failing or falling apart or however you want to put it as you go. And it could be something as simple as like, I can't believe my heel hurts every time I walk. And you know, like, and then that's. I guess that gives you a little bit of the. I'm not right where I was before. You hear people talk about all the time. They joke about like, well, I'm getting older so my back hurts now. And then they just. Your back doesn't stop hurting, but you just give a. Give up the fight on it. I guess you go, okay, I accept that. But I guess there's that maybe not seen by everybody impact of that, of that process of having the thing that fails you, having to get over the idea that it's ever going to go back to the way it was before. And these are for small things. They're still difficult for people. So when I stop and I think about them on something big like this, my kids pancreas stopped working. I now see why people are so intent, some of them, on figuring out why it happened. I don't know if they think they're going to fix it once they figure out why. But some people are very intent on like, why did this happen? I need to understand why this happened. And the word normal that gets brought up all the time like people are always like, my life's never going to be normal again. That, that, that, that really hurts them. And I guess it's because of the finite nature of it. I don't know. I'm just, I'm just listening. I didn't get to hear your talk in Orlando, so I'm having a lot of fun learning about it now. And you see, I know we're not done, but you see this going forward as a series where we break these ideas down into smaller episodes. Is that right?

B (28:08)

Yes. And the questions and points that you're bringing up, what is exciting for me is that even though this woman wrote this book, kind of in general, the concepts are so applicable to the. You Know, even the question of normal. Like, what is normal? Why do we even have that concept that there's normal and not normal? The why me? Who can I blame? How can I fix this? Who's at fault? And I think before we go into these last two points, I thought it might be maybe helpful to just review the stages of body grief, please. So dismissal. And again, she, these are not like any grief stages. They are not linear, but we're going to talk about them as you might experience them. But you can always go back and forth. So there's dismissal, shock, apology, fault, fight, and then hopelessness and hope. So within those kind of seven stages, I think it's important for us to kind of review these two key concepts that she talks about and the first one that are kind of applied and discussed through each stage. The first one is called perceived body betrayal. And this is the narrative that somehow our body has betrayed us, that we, and we have all felt this, whether it's with our pancreas or something else. Just gave examples. My back, my heel, my eyesight, you know, maybe it's even your voice. You get it, you lost your voice and you have a sore throat, right? So, and we live in this narrative because it's our effort to control what's happening. It's our effort to control our body. And she says that this perceived body betrayal is the core driver of body grief because it, it then places us and catapults us into this deep disconnect between our body and ourselves. So we're pitting ourselves against our bodies when we have this kind of language that my body failed me, my body gave out, my pancreas failed me. And it makes it seem like you were just kind of saying earlier that we're, it's us against our bodies when, when it's not. But that's what it actually really feels like.

A (30:36)

Right?

B (30:37)

And we'll go into all the reasons why.

A (30:41)

Well, I guess it could also feel like you against you. Right? Like, like almost like another version of you attacking yourself. Like, because I, I, I am going to get stuck on this idea a couple of times. I do hear what you're saying about. It's, it's my body is failing me. But there's another connect. I mean, you are your body, right? Like, I know you're not, but you, but you. I mean, in the context of like reality and the way you think about it, I don't know how you're supposed to separate those two things. I'm sure you can. I would imagine that people who Fight with things like cancer or people who have had type 1 diabetes for a long time and appear to be on the other side of it now. I imagine at some point they have to find a separation between me and it. I don't know if that makes. I might be wrong, but it's striking me that way.

B (31:32)

So the. This concept of perceived body betrayal. Yeah. Is a natural response, but the way it's kind of understood and articulated is that if we. It drives the grief and then we do. But we don't want to get stuck in that because we're always then going to be trying to find, well, why did this happen? Who can I blame? This is unfair. Those are all really normal and healthy responses.

A (32:01)

Yeah.

B (32:02)

To a perceived loss. Right. Or mourning and a change in your body. But you're kind of. What I want to understand, your reflection is it's natural to stay kind of differentiated.

A (32:18)

Well, it seems to me that, like, if. If you're feeling like your body failed you, I don't know how you're. I don't know how I could separate, like, the feelings of the body being me. Do you know what I mean by that? Like, how. How am I not going to get to the point where I feel like I failed myself? I guess is. Is my statement. Meanwhile, you're not in any control of the. The physical attributes that you have don't have. How well things work or don't. How long they last or don't. But I don't know how it. It's almost like when you see an athlete get hurt and they're so angry. Like, are they angry at their leg or are they ang. Like, that's what I'm wondering if we'll get through and find. Through the conversation. Also, I'll tell you that this. I feel like very hopeful about this conversation because I do know a number of people who've had significant illnesses or have lived with type one for a long time, who, when you meet them, they really. I would bet my life that they're on the other side of this problem somehow. And if they got there, I would imagine that understanding the process could help other people get there maybe even more quickly. Right. Because if we're all really going through this thing, I often think that diabetes is just like a mirror held up to your face that feels like it's fast forwarded. Because we all get sick and get older and have more health issues as we go. Diabetes just speeds the whole thing up a little bit and it gives it. I think it gives more or all of it. To you in a short amount of time instead of the way that I guess nature intends it is for you to slowly experience these things. And I just think that maybe once you see them all, know them all, if you could process them all, maybe you could leave them all behind at least as much as possible. Anyway, I think this is going to be great.

B (34:18)

Yes. And there is hope because there has to be. And that's, you know, why, why I do what I do and why I'm bringing this, this into our kind of hopefully our mindfulness, our awareness that. And I know you said kind of get on the other side of it and I know what you mean, but you are always kind of in these stages.

A (34:44)

It's not going to stop. Right?

B (34:45)

It's not going to stop, but you're going to have maybe more awareness and more tool so that it doesn't, maybe.

A (34:51)

It doesn't hit you as hard in the moment or you're able to process it.

B (34:55)

Yes.

A (34:55)

More, more judiciously maybe.

B (34:58)

Yeah. Or, and process it and not try and ignore it or fix it.

A (35:02)

Right?

B (35:02)

Yes.

A (35:03)

Yeah.

B (35:04)

So kind of conversely from this perceived body betrayal concept, the other important one is called body trust.

A (35:14)

Okay.

B (35:14)

And this is important because the, our body and this might, this is kind of hard to understand without kind of going through all the stages which we will get there, that our body actually does not fail us. And so she talks about body trust as this kind of reciprocal concept. Right. So body trust is defined as a two way street. In order to trust our bodies, our body needs to trust us, to take care of it, to be kind to it and to nourish it in all ways. Right. So there's this kind of back and forth between. In order to trust our bodies, our body needs to trust us. And this, this concept like takes some time to understand what that actually looks like, feels like. And, and in practice, um, but underneath it is this mindset that our body is not against us. It's not like, oh, I'm going to go, I'm going to, I'm going to shut down this thing and see what she can do with it. Right, right. That our bodies are always on our side. And when we work through these stages and engaging in the body grief, it means that we get to meet our body where it's at right now instead of trying to ignore it or push it down or say I'm fine, I'll be fine. But to, that's part of the body trust process is saying, okay, where, where am I hurting right now? Or where am I not Hurting physically or emotionally and just being present with that in the. In the moment.

A (37:02)

Well, you're making me think of all the people that I've interviewed who have, like, what you would consider to be, like, significant extra things to. To work through. Kate, who's been on the show a couple of times, you know, who's in a chair, and, you know, even the gentleman the other day who's, you know, he's completely blind. He was even able to, like, forgive. Like, he was diagnosed at a time where, you know, the insulin regimen wasn't great. He didn't really know what he was doing. He was misdiagnosed for a long time. So he was living probably with Lada and being treated for type two, you know, and then, you know, one day looks up and sees, like, spots in his eyes, and the next thing you know, it's, you know, it's 35 years later, and he's been blind for decades. And he even told me that he had initially, after seeing the spots, had a surgery, and he's not even sure if the surgeon didn't maybe make things worse for him. And he still wasn't mad. I was really like, the guy, somebody should study him. But, you know, and thinking about Kate brim and like, her talking about. I'll never forget when she told me about the worst thing that could happen is getting in bed and realizing you left a light on when you're a paraplegic.

B (38:17)

Yes.

A (38:18)

And I thought, wow, what a simple little thing. Like, we've all. All jumped in bed and thought, oh, I left the light on in the hallway. And, you know, and the worst thing that happens to you is, oh, I got to get out, and it's going to be chilly. And she's got to go through an entire process if she wants to go put that light back off again. And yet there she was with maybe one of the best attitudes I ever heard in my life. And I've been trying to tell those people stories in the hopes that somebody can, you know, I don't know, take something from it and try to apply it back to their own life. And again, I'm just. I'm very happy today because I think this is really going to maybe help that for a lot of people. I can't help, but that keeps going over my head while you're talking, that maybe this thing that I've been hoping, which is I'll just keep telling stories till somebody goes, hey, you know what? That makes a lot of sense. I'm going to try to adopt a Little bit of that. Maybe there's actually a process of adoption that would be helpful. I'm sorry, I'm talking over. I apologize.

B (39:14)

No, no, that's good. I think that's a great way to pause our. To conclude our intro with those hopeful stories. Yeah.

A (39:25)

Well, I really appreciate this. I can't wait to get back together and go on to the next part. Do you have the rest of it laid out? Can you tease it here a little bit or do you want to just let them find out they see an episode?

B (39:37)

Yes, I think we can review from this kind of introduction around what is body grief? How can we discuss it and think about it through the lens of diabetes? These concepts of perceived body betrayal and body trust. We then will move into the stages that I can say again, our dismissal, which is, I mean, should I just.

A (40:00)

Roll through them real quick so people know what's coming? Yeah.

B (40:03)

Okay. Okay. So, yeah, so these are the stages again. So dismissal, which can feel like denial. Right. In the normal or the kind of traditional grief series, dismissal shock, which is actually another stage in the grief stages. Apology, fault, fight, hopelessness and hope.

A (40:29)

Okay.

B (40:30)

And so we will move and kind of discuss, move through those stages and discuss them and then apply them to the, to our, you know, life with diabetes.

A (40:39)

Awesome. So. So this one will be called probably body grief introduction or something. And then you'll look for those other topics moving forward. And I really appreciate this. Thank you so much.

B (40:51)

Yes, you're welcome. Thank you.

A (40:59)

Thanks for tuning in today and thanks to Medtronic Diabetes for sponsoring this episode. We've been talking About Medtronic's mini med 780G system today, an automated insulin delivery system that helps make diabetes management easier day and night. Whether it's their meal detection technology or the Medtronic extended infusion set, it all comes together to simplify life with diabetes. Go find out more at my link medtronicdiabetes.com juicebox I'd like to thank the blood glucose meter that my daughter carries, the Contour Next gen blood glucose meter. Learn more and get started today@contornext.com juicebox and don't forget, you may be paying more through your insurance right now for the meter you have than you would pay for the Contour Next gen in cash. There are links in the show, notes of the audio app you're listening in right now and links@juicebox podcast.com to contour and all of the sponsors. Hey, I'm dropping in to tell you about a small change being made to the Juice Cruise 2026 schedule. This adjustment was made by Celebrity Cruise Lines, not by me. Anyway, we're still going out on the Celebrity beyond cruise ship, which is awesome. Check out the walkthrough video@juicebox podcast.com JuiceCruise the ship is awesome. Still a seven night cruise. It still leaves out of Miami on June 21st. Actually, most of this is the same. We leave Miami June 21, head to CocoCay in the Bahamas, but then we're going to San Juan, Puerto rico instead of St. Thomas after that. Bastirie I think I'm saying that wrong. St. Kitts and Nevis. This place is gorgeous. Google it. I mean, you're probably gonna have to go to my link to get the correct spelling because my pronunciation is so bad. But once you get the St. Kitts and you google it, you're gonna look and see a photo that says to you, oh, I want to go there. Come meet other people living with type 1 diabetes, from caregivers to children to adults. Last year we had a hundred people on our cruise and it was fabulous. You can see pictures again at my link juiceboxpodcast.com juicecruise you can see those pictures from last year there. The link also gives you an opportunity to register for the cruise or to contact Suzanne from Cruise Planners. She takes care of all the logistics. I'm just excited that I might see you there. It's a beautiful event for families, for singles. A wonderful opportunity to meet people, swap stories, make friendships and learn. If you're looking for community around type 1 diabetes, check out the Juice Box Podcast. Private Facebook Group juice box podcast type 1 diabetes but everybody is welcome. Type 1 type 2 gestational loved ones it doesn't matter to me. If you're impacted by diabetes and you're looking for support, comfort or community, check out Juice Box podcast type 1 diabetes on Facebook. I can't thank you enough for listening. Please make sure you're subscribed or following in your audio app. I'll be back tomorrow with another episode of the Juice Box Podcast.