← Juicy Crimes with Heather McDonald
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Foreign.
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Hello and welcome to Juicy Crimes. You've been begging for it. Your favorite sister, attorney and yellow flower, Shannon McDonald Goldstein is here with me in beautiful La Quinta, the greater Palm Springs area, to talk some juicy crimes. Welcome back, Shannon.
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Wow, what an introduction.
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So happy to be back. Well, I'm very excited to talk to you about a few crimes we have going on that some we're gonna revisit, but others are new. I think the juiciest one, let's get into it. We covered this one a couple years ago when we were just doing Juicy Crimes on Patreon. But it's crazy and it involves. Should I just walk through this? I think I should just like walk through the story, what the story is of what happened. And then. So it was a very tragic situation. This guy who is an IRS officer in Virginia, he had a young daughter with his wife Christina, his name's Brendan. And then a young four year old daughter. So they had a au pair living with them, happened to be born and raised in Brazil. A lot of people get a foreign au pair. What they through the system. I remember my friend Stacy had one from Columbia and it would always be like one year and then they'd get you somebody else. Part of that is like so that your child doesn't get too attached to them. But I think it's also part of whatever the agency is. So they seem to be happy with it. And he came in the house one night because the au pair called him in a panic that someone had broken in and was attacking Christina, his wife, while she was in bed. He came into a room and attacked her and he was stabbing her. And luckily the IRS agent got there just in time to shoot him dead. And after that, so sad she died. But how great that at that point he realized actually this au pair doesn't have to go to another family because we're in love. And isn't that convenient that the au pair slash nanny, whatever, who knows your 4 year old daughter is ready to become full blown 90 day fiance and also take care of the house and home. So that didn't that work out nice. Well, not so. Not so fast. Close your eyes. Exhale. Feel your body relax and let go
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of whatever you're carrying today.
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Well, I'm letting go of the worry that I wouldn't get my new contacts
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in time for this class.
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I got them delivered free from 1, 800 contacts. Oh my gosh, they're so fast. And breathe. Oh, sorry.
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I almost couldn't breathe when I saw the discount they gave Me on my first order.
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Oh, sorry. Namaste. Visit 1-800-contacts.com today to save on your first order.
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1-800-contacts with its two juicy beef patties and three slices of melted cheese topped with tangy Big Arch sauce. The Big Arch is what happens when you start making a McDonald's burger and never stop. The Big Arch, the most McDonald's McDonald's burger yet for a limited time.
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Turns out he is now on trial for her murder. Because the prosecution looked into things, which you will get into.
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Right.
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And they believe right now the trial is currently happening.
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Right.
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They believe that he and Christina were not having a good marriage. And once he fell in love with the Juliana who is the au pair, once they started having an affair, he decided the best way to get on with their lives is not to go through a messy divorce. Okay? Not to put the child through a custody battle when you already have another mom waiting in the wings that can teach you Spanish. Okay? Why would we do that? Why don't we make my wife's last day fun and kinky? And they went on and to a kink website, sexual kink website, so people could find each other named FetLife. I assume that fetish. Fetish life is what it's short for. Fetish life. Fetlife. Kind of like MetLife or something.
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I know.
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Yeah. It's literally. And created a profile as if it was Christina, right? Saying that it's her hot fantasy to have someone come over with ropes and restraints and a knife and some type of gag mechanism because, you know, so that she could really experience that. That fantasy of hers and, like, leave the door. I don't know if she left the door open, but, like, come upstairs and just do that. So this guy named Joseph Ryan is like, great. I always had a fantasy about being a rapist.
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Well, I think that's.
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I don't know. Whatever. It's a fantasy.
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But that's the point of these websites, right? Is these people that have these fetishes
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can find each other.
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Correct.
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Can each other. There's. What's that dating site for farmers to find a wife. There's like, farmers.
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There's farmers only.
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There's farmers only. There's J Date for. For successful Jews.
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Well, J Date's been tried.
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I don't even know at the time. I don't even. I say successful Jews. Everyone always just thinks that. But I remember my friend Martha, she wasn't Jewish, and she said, I go on JDate because they are I actually better catches.
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I actually recommend that to a Lot of. I've heard that. It's the best one. So when people want to go. And I go, I have a girlfriend I work with, and she's single. And I go, have you tried J Date? She's not Jewish. I go, I would give it a shot.
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I know there's, like, the Christian mingle and there's Catholic whatever. But anyway, so they found each other, and then there's Fet. Life. FetLife. And so this guy is, like, all excited, and he goes over there, does what he thinks he's supposed to be doing, starts having sex with her while she was on the bed. And I'm sure acting scared because this is what he thinks is happening. And so it turned out that Brendan and the nanny are the ones that set up the website, acting like they were Christina. He wasn't there. They had the whole thing planned. The nanny would call in distress, someone has broken into the house. He would come in, not only kill the guy, but he then did. The guy was not stabbing her. That was not part of the fantasy. My fantasy was not. And I want to die in the end. Right?
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So.
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But I guess the thing was bring a knife. So then he used that knife and stabbed her to make it look like the guy was stabbing her. And that he got in there and saved the day, saved the family, but couldn't save her. And of course, they, you know, with digital. There's so much digital evidence. They have arrested him. He is saying he's innocent.
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Of course, she.
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The nanny, she was arrested as well. Or held, but she was, you know, saying she was innocent, too. She finally pleaded to manslaughter in October 2024. She is being held, and then she'll be sentenced after his trial because she is cooperating with the prosecution.
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Wow. I mean, there's a lot to talk about.
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And he's an FBI agent.
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Well, he's an irs. Oh, I.
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Sorry. Irs.
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He's an irs.
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Not FBI. Irs.
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IRS investigator. And by the way, whatever you would. Government and IRS investigator would look like, this is what this man looks like. Yes.
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Not cute, nerdy. Probably so excited that he got this, you know, nanny, which, again, we all watch 90 Day Fiance. And I've said this before. Say what you want to say about America, but there's people all over the world that will come and fuck our ugliest citizens to become. To become a citizen themselves. And you have to be the nanny. So you have to not only do the nanny work, but you have to screw him, too. And now, of course, her defense is probably Like I got sucked into this. His defense is saying you purposely arrested her so that she would turn on him and you could get him. Because I guess his defense is that they're both innocent.
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I mean, we will see. Because right now the case has just started.
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It just started. They said it'll be several. They assume it will be several weeks.
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Right. And I mean, I can't imagine this guy's gonna take the stand, but oh boy, I hope he does. Cause this could be good. So I'm familiar with the facts. Cause we talked about it before and so I just, I had to watch the testimony because it's interestingly enough, they are starting out with their cooperating or witness, which is the nanny.
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Juliana.
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Juliana. And so typically in these cases, you typically start out, they kind of set the groundwork, they go straight to the criminal scene. And it's usually a police officer, but right off the bat they're going straight with Juliana. And I actually had a chance to. And maybe some of your listeners.
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And when you say that, they go straight to the police officer because they get that they're walking you through it. Like the first day the call was made, I was the first officer, are on set. But they're like, fuck it, let's get to the juice.
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Right?
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So it. Okay.
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And. And actually because you did a very good job explaining the story, Juliana tells her story and kind of gives you a whole litany. When she came, when she.
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Well, let's hear about that.
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When she first met Brandon and the Brendan and their whole relationship. Oh, is it Brendan, not Brandon?
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Well, I don't know that juice. So tell me what she says.
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Okay, so she's 25 now and there has been a vast difference in appearance in the last few years. And they also oftentimes if she's trying to come off as more of a victim, which she is, they're gonna make her look a little more dowdy and not quite the way she looked in the last couple of years, which was the long kind of highlighted hair and big lips and just a little more attractive.
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Well, we've talked about how you think inflated lips is two steps closer to a guilty. Right.
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So the lips are not inflated right now. In fact, she has a tendency to do this with her mouth as she testifies a lot.
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Like put her two lips together, kind of.
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Two. Yeah.
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And she also added a pair of glasses.
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These glasses are what you would expect every 75 year old woman that has a serious. What is that?
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Degenerate.
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Yeah, they look like a cataract. They look Like a magnifying glass. You actually almost. Her eyeballs look like they're magnified in them. So that's interesting. Very large and very, very thick. These kind of. I forget the word I'm using, but a very thick glass. So she gets up on the stand and she goes, yes, I'm from Brazil. And the first time I met Brendan. Brendan. Brendan and Christina, they were the home I was to take care of as an au pair. And I was about August of 20, I want to say August of 20, 21. And I think she's 21 then. And, you know, they start taking care of their child or I think it might be October or something by the next year, maybe within nine months or something, she starts to say that she has a relationship with.
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With.
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With Brandon. And, you know.
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And did she get into the details of, like, the first time?
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No.
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They got intimate?
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No, she didn't get into the details of that because that's not really. But the point is she. She's, you know, a woman of not too many words. So she says, yeah, well, because English
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is her second language.
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Correct, Correct. And there are some people that might feel like, you know, could she have used an interpreter? Was this proper? Although I think she does a pretty good job answering the questions, which is. It's a direct examination. So she's doing a pretty good job just answering the questions. And she, you know, she indicates that she's, you know, nine months later. Now, he's a secretive about the affair, but she posts, and apparently they throw some posts on. She tells some of her friends. Yes.
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Oh, really?
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Now, I guess these are posts to maybe her friends in Brazil, and they're not necessarily going to the whole party, but there are some friends that she did say she is seeing her, you know, her boss and doesn't seem to be very remorseful about that. Let's just start there. And I think that even some of the exhibits are of her doing karaoke with him, which I. Now, unfortunately, when you're watching on tv, you can't see the exhibits. That would be a lot of fun to be able to see the exhibits. But at least what I was seeing was not. I couldn't see the exhibits.
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So they're going out to a public place to do karaoke.
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Yeah. I mean, now, maybe they weren't touching each other. Maybe it was just like, oh, we're gonna blow off steam. But I don't know if Christina's there. I'm just saying that this is some of the stuff they had put forward. So now Christina I'm trying to remember a lot about her, but I will say that there's a reason she got an au pair. Because she's a full time RN nurse.
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So this, I mean, this even makes it worse.
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It does. It makes it worse.
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Like, so you're working your ass off in like one of the hardest professions.
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Correct. And it was around Covid, it was hard to get.
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Become an rn.
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Yeah.
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Finally become an rn, and then you have to, you know, work this difficult job.
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Right.
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Can't even be with your daughter as much as you'd want because your husband, Whatever. Okay, so Christina, she says. What about Christina?
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She says that she's kind of lazy. He's not in a very good marriage.
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Lazy as the rn?
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Yeah. Lazy as the rn.
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Yeah.
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And would you. You know, I'd like to get rid of her, I think is the word he uses. I don't really know what he means. But the next thing you know, she says, he starts to take me to the shooting range. He wants me to learn how to shoot. And it seems like the way she testifies is everything is, brendan, Brendan did this. Brendan told me to do this. Brendan did this. Brendan tells me what to do. This is what's happening. And I'm learning how to shoot. And why did you learn how to shoot? Well, I learned how to shoot just in case. Just in case what? So then as they proceed as an investigator, he comes up with a plan and they go, well, why did he come up with this plan? Well, he always knew there was going to be an investigation. So as you're hearing her testifying, so
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as he, because he's an IRS investigator, he planned it knowing there would be an investigation and he was trying to cover the tracks.
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Correct.
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And actually instead of just killing her himself somehow.
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And if you really think about it, and as I explained, we'll kind of go into detail. And you kind of did with the whole FetLife thing. It's actually not a bad plan. I mean, he really does kind of COVID all of his tracks.
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Okay.
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He really does. Because the first thing that they talk about is he finds this FetLife thing where he sings all. Somebody that's aggressive, they'll think they're coming to see Christine. He probably will hurt her, or he'll at least put her in a compromising enough position so that when we get there, we can finish the job.
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Oh, also, the Joseph Ryan guy who came pretending to be the rapist, there was a peach in his bag or something, so they thought that might have been for a gag Oh, a ball gag. But instead just brought a peach.
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I don't know. All I know.
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Anyway, go on.
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All I know is while Christina, they start this website. They do this name so it looks like it's from Christina. They're on Christina's computer. So they're making it so all the evidence would pin back there. What I thought was so crazy is that every time when they're reaching out and finding someone to have a fetlife relationship with, they're always doing it in the house on Christina's computer while Christina is there.
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Oh. So they are kind of covering their tracks. Totally.
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And they're doing it so that if the phones come back and it's pinning, Christine will show that she's there because that's the best they're going to do. They're not going to be able to pin. What room were you on and were you typing this?
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B
Right.
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And she'll always say. Juliana will always say Brendan. You know, he's the one that was. He's the one that typed it. He's the one that said this. But apparently she knows all about this and she's. They're setting it up. They're setting it up perfectly to the point where they orchestrate this date. They say the door is going to be open.
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Oh, that's what they say.
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Okay. He starts to change his routine. So it doesn't look like Brendan does. Yeah. So it doesn't look like he just happened to be not there when this happened, just to kind of show. Well, now I'm doing something else at this particular hour. So at. On the day that this is supposed to happen. So they start having this relationship. I want to say October. Ish. Fallish.
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B
You mean the au pair and Brendan. October of.
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I want to say, 22.
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Okay.
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Okay. By February 20th, I believe it's February 24th is their magic day. So from the time there's three or four months in this relationship, they have picked this, chosen this day because that's the day that he's going to come and he's, you know, this guy Joseph Ryan is. I'm really excited to meet you. Of course. In the meantime, Christina's just working her ass off and then going to sleep.
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It's like drawing blood.
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It's just hoping that one of her
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patients doesn't have to enter hospice. She's trying to get squeeze in a play date with her daughter. So they orchestrate this, thanking the au pair profusely for taking care of her daughter.
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I mean, as I go on, it gets even more Infuriating, I feel. So she. Julieta goes with the child into the car, like she's planning on going to the zoo. Okay.
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The day of.
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The day of, Brandon is away, and they work out this situation so that she sets up a little thing on the iPad. So the daughter's distracted. And then when she sees Ryan come.
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Like, through the. Through the cameras at the house?
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No, she's outside, kind of parked, like, in a certain way. Okay. So Ryan comes.
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B
Wait, hold on. So she. So this is daytime? No.
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Yeah.
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Oh, because the mom sleeps during the day because of her.
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I believe it is daytime. Yeah, because they're ready to do, like, an. Like a zoo.
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She must be, like, a night shift person.
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Yeah. And they're, like, doing an act. And so they.
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She. So the nanny takes the daughter out
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like they're going on a.
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On a trip, but she's sitting in the car, surveilling the place. Okay.
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Went. And she's got very explicit directions from Brandon. Brandon says, brendan. Brendan, sorry.
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He doesn't need to be the same name as my son.
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Brendan. I will not mess that up again. Heather.
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Yeah.
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Brendan basically says, let me know. Call me to tell me when you see him enter. Him enter. And then she calls and she leaves a message saying, brendan, I'm. I'm. I was gonna leave, but I look up and there's something. Somebody very odd coming into your house. So it's all acting. Yeah, all kind of, you know, orchestrated. Oh, okay. And then she gives instructions that as soon as he leaves and goes into the house or is about to go, she then calls 911 and says, I called my employer. I saw somebody strange come in. Then all three of them, apparently, they wait a while because they obviously want something not good to happen. All three. And when I say three, I mean the daughter who's four. Who's four, go down into, like, the basement. Then they leave the daughter in the basement, I guess, with her iPad. Then he goes inside, up and up the stairs, you know, and they both have guns. By this time, I just want you to know that both he and Juliana have guns.
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Okay.
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Okay. Goes upstairs. He's. Joseph Ryan is on top of Christina and maybe screaming and everything, too. I'm. You know, I don't know what's happening, but he kind of having sex with her, right? He rushes in. Well, we're not even sure really exactly what's happening, but he's on top of her, okay. Doing something. And what they say, or what Juliana says is Christina goes. Looks out and goes. He has a Knife. He has a knife. Like, just be aware he has a knife, right? And at that particular point in time, he has a gun. So he shoots him dead, rolls off, proceeds to jump on his wife. His wife's going, oh, thank God. Saving him.
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B
Thank God. My hero.
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A
Then he takes the crazy knife that the guy has and just starts, according to Juliana, slashing her all up. Okay, if you're tackling a home project, check out angie.com. from roofing to remodels and everything in between, Angie connects you with skilled pros who do such a good job, you might trust them to do other things, like pull out your tooth or be your kid's godfather. Don't actually ask them to do those things. Just let them get the job done. Well, Angie, the one you trust to find the ones you trust, find a pro for your projects@angie.com. that's a n g I dot com.
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B
Why have I asked my electrician I found on Angie.com to bury my pet hamster, Nibbles, in our yard for me? Because I was so moved by how carefully he buried my electrical wires, I
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C
knew I could trust him to bury
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B
my sweet Nibbles after his untimely end. Huh? Nibbles gone too soon. May he scurry in peace.
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C
Hey, sorry about your pet, but I just wire stuff.
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B
Nibbles would have loved you like a brother.
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C
Connecting homeowners with skilled pros for over 30 years. Angie, the one you trust to find the ones you trust. Find pros for all your home projects@angie.com.
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B
why have we asked our contractor we found on angie.com to be our kid's legal guardian? Because he took such good care when
- [21:16]
A
redoing our basement that we knew we
- [21:18]
B
could trust him to care for our kids, all eight of them, should something happen to us. Are you my dad now?
- [21:26]
C
No, sorry. I do basements. Connecting homeowners with skilled pros for over 30 years. Angie, the one you trust to find the ones you trust. Find pros for all your home projects@angie.com.
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B
and Juliana's, like, in the hallway?
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A
No. Now Juliana's come up, and at that point in time, once she appears to be dead, he's looking at her and he says, go in the safe, because I guess it's a money thing. So now, before the investigators would come, because they're gonna obviously call the police, right? They've already called 911. Get everything out of the safe. Because I guess the idea would be we have this money that nobody can track because we've gotten the money and he couldn't. From what?
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B
Where's the money from? Anything.
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A
Any money in the. So let's say it was rings or it was any kind of jewelry. They couldn't take it out of the safe before this happened because the wife would be onto them. Oh, so now they're taking it. Or. And she might have, you know, I don't know. But they take. I don't even know. But anyway, that's what Juliana said. Okay, go in the safe or whatever. Now, at this particular point in time, Ryan moves, and she goes, brendan. Brendan, Ryan's moving. And he's, of course, busy killing his wife and doesn't say anything, doesn't really care. So then she. She doesn't need an instruction now. She fires and does the final shot. So now on the.
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B
Joseph Ryan. Yeah.
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A
Joseph's dead, Mom. The wife does not make it. Ultimately, they call 911, and they explain exactly the way you explained it. Oh, my God. Some guy got in our house. I don't even know. But let's just say for a second that the police officers do not see the bullshit. Not only did he kill his wife, but he ruined her reputation.
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B
Right.
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A
I don't know what bothers me more. I mean. I mean. I mean, I know you're not only
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B
a cheater, but you're into this kinky shit, bdsm, that you'd bring a stranger into your home, where he might then go next door and rape your daughter.
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A
I mean, the calculation, the way she testifies, which is, yes, it could be a cultural difference or whatever, but zero remorse. He's sitting there. You know, of course, I would always tell my client not to have any emotion, either, but it's just kind of weird to actually see just a story like you're telling a story. And I find it very interesting that her kind of defense is, oh, I was just so wrapped up into this. I was young. I was, you know, au pair from Brazil. You know, I just told He. I just did what he told me to do. I didn't have any choice, because I'm assuming that's going to be ultimately her story. She had no problem shooting him. So now, for whatever reason, and I think there's a lot of forensic evidence, but as time goes on, the prosecutor goes, I don't really care about the nanny. I care about this guy who was an IRS investigator, which is a position of power, in my opinion. And, you know, this. This horrific crime, the calculation, the clearly, the planning, the first degree, everything. We're going to give this woman what we Call a break. Immunity. So my understanding is she was charged with murder.
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B
Manslaughter.
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A
She was charged with murder. Charged with murder.
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B
But then they. Yeah, settled on the murders.
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A
Charged with murder. They settle with manslaughter. Which manslaughter can be a variety of different things. Clearly what she did was not manslaughter.
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B
I mean, yeah, she did the final blow of this stranger, like with her own. I mean, I could see getting wrapped up into something and maybe covering up, but I mean, she actively partook in the murder.
- [25:03]
A
Yes, she did. And I don't even. I don't see any self defense. The guy wasn't moving around lunging at her. There's no evidence of that. So she, you know, so they offered. This is the deal. As I understand, this is the deal. The deal is you testify for us as our primary witness, you lay the groundwork and. And you will be, you know, you'll plead to manslaughter. She's been in custody now for three years or something like that, and will give you credit for time served and then you go back to Brazil. I would say anything to get that deal. Of course, that's a crazy deal.
- [25:41]
B
So as a defense attorney, then you've got to poke holes and all of that. To say they're just so obsessed with my client and this insane story that they are using this poor girl who is an immigrant who, you know, was beholden to this family. She. English is a second language. If she loses this job, she gets thrown back. If she, you know, this is her. Where she lives as well as where she works. She's essentially an indentured servant. And now she has to. Now she thinks she has to fuck this guy, you know, or whatever. There could be that and then there could be, you know, that.
- [26:25]
A
That she orchestrated the whole thing.
- [26:26]
B
That she orchestrated the whole thing because she didn't want to just be the nanny anymore.
- [26:31]
A
Well, I think. And I haven't gone into the cross,
- [26:33]
B
but if you're saying he's totally innocent, then the defense has to be. She's just being manipulated to say these things.
- [26:40]
A
Well, it's interesting because I didn't get a chance to really get into the details of the cross examination that has just begun.
- [26:46]
B
But in the story of. If we're to believe your initial story of a stranger came into the house, we put the daughter in the basement to protect her. But because I, the nanny had my own gun and I've been trained with a gun. And I love this family so much and I love Christina so much. I didn't hide in the basement with the little girl. I came to help my employee. Just like, I take out the trash. Which would be a great story if
- [27:15]
A
that was her testimony. But that's not her testimony.
- [27:18]
B
But when I'm saying, do you know if. When the cops first came on the scene, was it her saying, yes, and then I took the final. I took the final shot to kill this guy.
- [27:29]
A
Probably more than likely. Okay.
- [27:31]
B
Yeah.
- [27:31]
A
Cause I'm trying to remember when we
- [27:32]
B
talked from that perspective of like, I didn't want to just hide in the basement because it was so bad. I felt like, I have a gun, too. Let me help you, boss.
- [27:42]
A
And I mean, and that.
- [27:43]
B
And at that time where they. And then at the time that they. Right when she died, I saw there was testimony that, you know, the cop on the scene said already there was her. The nanny's clothing and lingerie moved into Christina's closet.
- [27:59]
A
Oh, my goodness.
- [28:01]
B
The photos have already been changed with the two of them.
- [28:04]
A
Well, that's stupid. I mean, when people do that, that's just incredibly stupid. If that's your story, like, you gotta kind of stick to the plan. But I do find it very interesting. Your theory of this was her original story. And the only reason she's testifying is, as I would say, you made a deal that I had to take. So. But then that makes her incredibly. Then what do we believe? I mean, you'd have to believe her at the time of. And not believe her later.
- [28:31]
B
And.
- [28:31]
A
But I just think my understanding is the forensic evidence does come out and it's pretty overwhelming as far as their
- [28:38]
B
communication and everything and planning it.
- [28:40]
A
Their communication. I'm curious about the forensic evidence of, like, obviously he had blood all over himself. And I'm talking about Brendan, but that Bren. But that could also. You could also have blood all over yourself because you're. You put it. You're literally putting your hands to stop the blood wound. I mean, there could be different areas. So then. But then you'd have to. If his. If all of it was on the knife, if his stuff was on. If his DNA was on the knife and the weapon, that would be harder to explain because he.
- [29:07]
B
If he's claiming to be innocent, he's still sticking with. When I walked in, she was already bleeding out. Right. And this weirdo. Right. Joseph Ryan. So we're also rooting Joseph Ryan, poor little freak's life.
- [29:20]
A
No, he's.
- [29:21]
B
And reputation and his memory.
- [29:23]
A
Absolutely. Right. Absolutely. The biggest scapegoat situation, which really, you know, that another thing that really angers me is like you somehow believe that someone, just because they have a fetish, just is somehow not worthy of human dignity and human life. I mean, it's disgusting. Everything on so many levels is just gross. It's just the dismissiveness of all of it. And. Yeah, but I think there probably were some mistakes maybe with the forensic. As far as there was some indication that when he.
- [29:55]
B
They brought him.
- [29:56]
A
And obviously everybody acted very alarmed when they brought him to the police department. They allowed him to wash his hands. Not great. But most murderers wash their hands before they're arrested. And they still have enough DNA either in the house or on clothes or in various different elements of the weapons or whatever. So I do think there's elements of it. He's right.
- [30:15]
B
When you walk in, no one would think that off the bat. Wait a minute. I think you're fucking this nanny and the two of you put this together and you got online and you made it look like she really want. I mean, yeah, originally when they came, when the cops came, they probably really did think an intruder came in the house. Then they're like, oh, my God, it's crazier. She was into kinky stuff and was on FetLife. And the kinky guy she chose just turned out to take it too far and was a freak. Then they're like, wait a minute, there's more here. The nanny and the husband are a couple. Maybe they were a couple prior to her death. Then they start investigating it more and put this all together.
- [30:58]
A
So both of them, ultimately, then they have enough suspicions, they put them both in. They're both in jail. Then apparently there are a lot of letters and everything between them. So now they have those letters and they have to dissect them. In addition, I guess while she's waiting, she's talking to reporters and media.
- [31:17]
B
Julian is, yeah.
- [31:18]
A
And they're offering her $10,000 when this is all over to tell her story. So now the defense attorney.
- [31:24]
B
But before they. Before they realized she was involved or they were offering her to tell her story when they just thought she was a hero, too.
- [31:33]
A
No, this is when she was arrested and already the deal had come forward. So now they're saying, not only now we know you're lying about this whole thing because now they've given you this deal, you're like, I'll agree to tell the story, and now I'm going to get money. Because, you know, and then they're trying to say. Prosecutors trying to say kind of like, well, she's just. She's going to go back to Brazil. She's not going to have any money. She has a right to tell her story. But what story is that? Is it absolute lies? Was the first story real? Was none of the stories real? So I really think it does come. But it is interesting because everything that people, everything about the FET life is really from her testimony. Because if he doesn't take the stand.
- [32:14]
B
Julianna's testimony.
- [32:14]
A
Yeah. Because if he doesn't take the stand and all they can do is show that it was a Christina account on her computer when she was home, who's to say that it wasn't? It didn't come from Christina.
- [32:25]
B
Right.
- [32:27]
A
So that's where I think. I hate to say it, but that was good planning. It really was good planning until they got stupid and sloppy and all the rest of the. So we'll be curious. I mean, as we're talking about this now, I'm thinking, well, you listen to her story. This guy's the grossest thing in the world. It's a slam dunk.
- [32:42]
B
But it's gonna be. Yeah. Will the jury be without a doubt that maybe Christina was into this weird shit and knew that she had a, you know, a window of time to get freaky while her au pair took the kid down the street to the park. So after she gets off of a 12 hour shift to the hospital and she has a small window of sleep for six hours, she was like, let me just schedule this. Two in the afternoon. Sexy time with a stranger.
- [33:21]
A
Yeah. Bdsm.
- [33:23]
B
Yeah. I'm just gonna tell him to leave the door open, you know, and then after that I have to get up and do another shift. So let me just get my rape fantasy in.
- [33:31]
A
So we obviously have. We're gonna be hearing from various people that knew her. That's not coming from him. And then I'm sure we'll have people talking about him. But I mean, but I think, you know, there's so many different ways you could just kind of say, like, I don't think either one of them. The defendant or the au pair who's like kind of the defendant. I don't think either one of them are of clean hands. I don't think either one of them. I think they're both pretty gross and scummy. And there's just no way in hell that Joseph, Ryan and Christine were the real culprits in this. I just don't.
- [34:03]
B
And there's so many bigger things. Like already, you know, it's so interesting because, like, lately I've Been going down this rabbit hole of like, feminism was sold to us so that, you know, this is one theory. Feminists are sold to us so that women would work under the guise of, don't you want your own money? But you then trapped to also be a mom, work, do the cooking and the cleaning, not be with your kids and be taxed 50% of your income. So maybe that was why this was all pushed, for women to work so that there would be double income homes. Then you have to get a nanny. And so then you have these children, you can't even be home with them. And then this can happen. Like, my God, I want to just. Could I not relax for a minute? And of course, the story of the nanny becoming the wife is a very old tale. I believe that even Robin Williams married one of his nannies, who I think she was the last one, unfortunately, before he died. And she became a producer, a movie producer and everything else on all of his films. And of course, Ben Affleck has, I believe there was a. That was an accusation that he got with the nanny when he was Jennifer Garner, Jude Law, also Gwen Stefani before Blake Shelton, Gavin Rossdale with the nanny, of course, the greatest scandal of all time. Our governor Arnold Schwarzenegger got with the maid who not only had to have sex with him and had his child, but she had to have the abuela watch the trial while she still folded the clothes and still went there every day. She didn't even be able to go, all right, here's a million bucks. Scoot along and whatever hit me up when he's ready to work out with me. Like, nothing. I mean, it was just like. And then it's just weird to also be watching like 90 Day Fiance and Seeking sister wife. Because there's a whole storyline with seeking sister wife, which is basically sister wife meets 90 day fiance. Because there's this one awful guy. His name's like Gareth or something. It's some weird name. Garrick. It's not. It's like Garrick. It's not Garrett. It's something weird.
- [36:25]
A
Oh, G, A, R, R, I, C. It's just like. Yeah.
- [36:29]
B
And they're on like their fourth round of trying to find a third wife, right? And the wife is like, I just wanted a friend. She has like this weird face. And they found some Brazilian girl who then he had sex with and they were getting married. She took off. Then there was another one that was like, hope they're still looking. I don't know if they're doing it all for tv or what. But it's a similar thing where it's like, are you just looking for a sister wife to also help watch your kids? Because that was a lot of the storylines when they're looking for sister wife's, like, we just need, like, live and help. And I don't care if you fuck my husband. And I also have no friends. And I don't know if you heard about Ashley Tisdale, but she has no friends either.
- [37:09]
A
I only know from you.
- [37:09]
B
So maybe, you know, maybe some moms are like, you know what? Let me. Let me get my husband a sister wife. Hopefully she won't want to kill me because I'll be like, you can stay in the house, you can watch the kids. We're not going to send you back to your native country. And, you know, just. Just do what you need to do to.
- [37:28]
A
You know what also is kind of upsetting is that she basically, and I'm talking about the nanny here, she basically ruined the whole idea of the a pair system, which is actually pretty good for these girls from different countries that want to come here, learn about our, you know, our country and have an opportunity, it's a great opportunity to do something temporary to see if this is some.
- [37:48]
B
And also the service, like, what if you were the one that they used to find her? Now you're the lady that has done this for 20 years, finding girls for homes and whatnot.
- [38:00]
A
And it's not like she had any criminal history. She was 21 when she got there. But now, yeah, it makes me. Anybody would be like, well, I don't want to hire an au pair and I don't want to use this service.
- [38:11]
B
So it's not like she would have become a murderer had she not gotten wrapped up in this weirdness.
- [38:17]
A
We hope not.
- [38:18]
B
Of course, you know, with. In our family, Richard Paulson, the famed fertility doctor, their nanny that they had for a while did end up marrying one of the other Czech cousins.
- [38:34]
A
Yeah, that's right.
- [38:35]
B
Yeah. But I mean, it wasn't in the same house. It was like, do you want to come to this Czech party? And the cousin then fell in love with the nanny and he was checked, too. So then they all lived and they're still married and now they're grandparents. But. But I do can be a nice story. It doesn't have to be a Lifetime movie. This is a lifetime. This is. This is. This is too dark for a Lifetime movie, right? This is too dark for a real movie, like, for any kind of.
- [38:59]
A
This is just.
- [39:00]
B
This is too dark for a porn like, this is the worst story ever.
- [39:04]
A
It's really kind of unbelievable. And. But it's interesting, too, though, because when you said about, you know, you could. The idea of being. Having an opportunity to become an au pair from a different country, I think she probably did have a goal to maybe meet a nice American boy. And I do think there's this feeling where you're sort of like, oh, but maybe it is my employer. And I'm sure that she's had friends that have had that. That's probably why she told her friends, I'm dating my employer. Oh, and he's got a good job. And. And the little girl's so cute, and she loves me, and she calls me Mommy. And I mean, it's just. I'm sure it's happened before. It just hasn't resulted in a murder. So it's kind of crazy. The whole thing is very. Well, I'm definitely gonna be staying housemaid.
- [39:50]
B
I've talked about it. This is not the storyline, but it's a surprising, juicy storyline about. But it starts off your typical lifetime nanny. A little too much flirting's happening with the husband. Something's weird with the wife. Is the wife insecure, or is the nanny a vixen? Like, it's. It's juicy.
- [40:12]
A
I still have not seen that.
- [40:13]
B
I want to see it before I forget. I was watching, like, some special on the Menendez brothers, you know, trying to get out, and I just. This just struck me, and I was like, I've talked about with Shannon, you know, of course, the people that want them out are like, they are no threat to society at all. They have been such great model citizens. They have helped other, you know, prisoners with education. They even graduated from UC Irvine. Look at them, you know, getting their degree at 50 or whatever. And they help with the dogs, you know, trading dogs. So there is no reason that they should stay in there. And I'm just like, you know what? Why wouldn't they be model citizens?
- [41:04]
A
What?
- [41:05]
B
You're.
- [41:05]
A
What else is there for life?
- [41:07]
B
Like, what are you gonna get? Fighting every week so you can be in solitaire. Of course you're gonna fucking, like, try to do them. And, yeah, I want to be with the dogs, too. Like, of course you want to work in the dog section. And then I'm like, you should be able to graduate from UC Irvine when you've got nothing to do but study. When one of you got into Princeton and the other one was accepted to UCLA before you got together and decided to kill your parents. So I'm Just saying there's literally, it shouldn't be a big challenge to get a BA from UC Irvine while you're in prison. I don't think there's that big of a coup.
- [41:39]
A
There's literally no distractions. I mean, there's none. Like when you're normally in school, there's lots of distractions. You might be married, you might have a family. You might have, you know, you might have issues with, with your three jobs or your clubs or your athletics or your relationship. Nothing.
- [41:53]
B
Husbands make such great husbands. They're there. You know where they are. You don't have to track them on 360 you they call it when they say they're going to call you on Sunday. They're going to call you on Sunday when you go to visit them. They're excited to see you.
- [42:08]
A
Yes.
- [42:08]
B
And they have time to write you letters.
- [42:11]
A
Lots of letters.
- [42:11]
B
But the Mendendez brothers, Lyle especially has cheated on numerous wives. More than two wives he's cheated on. Why have I asked my h vac guy I found on angie.com to change my grandpa's trachea tube? Because I was so amazed by how quickly he replaced our air ducts. I knew I could trust him to change Pop Pop's tube while I was on vacation.
- [42:31]
A
Make it quick, young man. Aw. See, Pop Pop trusts you.
- [42:37]
C
I think we should call a doctor. Connecting homeowners with skilled pros for over 30 years. Angie, the one you trust to find the ones you trust. Find pros for all your home projects@angie.com
- [42:48]
B
Weight Watchers now offers access to affordable GLP1s.
- [42:52]
A
Weight Watchers has everything I need from weight loss medications to nutrition support and help with my side effects. With our program, our members are losing more weight with expert nutrition and side effect support.
- [43:03]
B
Weight watchers prescribing GLP1 medications.
- [43:06]
A
It's been life changing. Better results, expert support, lose more weight,
- [43:10]
B
make it last, get started. For as low as $25 at weightwatchers.com
- [43:14]
A
all medications require eligibility and prescription first month as low as 25 for the 12 month plus plan does not include the cost of GLP1 medications. I mean I'm just so confused by this. So he's with a wife and then
- [43:22]
B
he starts to pen pal to another girl.
- [43:25]
A
Okay.
- [43:25]
B
Having the other girl visit the latest one he that he had for 20 years. So he had Anna Menendez, who's a story I've told numerous times that she came out here with her actor boyfriend from Chicago who was actually a regular in the Jenny McCarthy series. Co starring Heather Dubrow.
- [43:47]
A
Such a small world and so weird.
- [43:49]
B
He'd come home from before he got the part, auditioning after auditioning, and she would be at home all day watching Court tv. And then one day the phone rang and it was, do you accept a call from blah, blah, blah, blah, Lyle Menendez? And he's like, what? And he's like, who is this? And Lyle said, get my fucking girlfriend on the phone. He was, like, really aggressive. The guy himself told me this. Oh, we're hanging out at Chateau Marmont one night. And I was like, my God. You know, it is. No girl wants to be with a struggling actor. That's why she picked a regular on Court tv. He was a regular. He was beloved. He had. If there was social media, he would have had 3 million followers.
- [44:33]
A
He was a little less beloved on the second trial.
- [44:36]
B
Second trial for sure. And, you know, listen, taking everything that their defense is away, okay, I'm just, you know, of the abuse and all that. I'm just saying this other person said, if this weren't the Lyle, if this wasn't Erica Lyle Menendez, we didn't know their whole story. They weren't white and cute and charming and rich. And of course, they're well spoken. Of course he knows how to speak to Rosie o'. Donnell. He grew up in Beverly Hills. Of course he's well read. What the fuck else was he doing for 35 years? Like, you know what I mean? Like, if it was two, you know, lower income guys that ended up killing their abusive parents, do you think people would be like, they're. No, they play with the dogs. They have trained mean pit bulls into being nice puppies. Like, yeah, so anyway. But no, Lyle then got another wife, and then he has since got caught. She's there getting divorced and now he's with some like, 21 year old from England. And then Eric, there's probably so many. Eric has been with his wife very
- [45:39]
A
long, but there's probably so many guys out there that are going like, God, you know, it's like, it's tough out there. I can't meet a nice girl. I can't even get, like anything going on. And then maybe I should murder my parents and go to prison.
- [45:51]
B
They need a wife. And so they need a wife, you know, to not only visit them, to put money on the books and all those things.
- [45:56]
A
Oh, yeah, you need a kid.
- [45:57]
B
And then many of them have several. But it was funny because Drake was working with me, setting up this stuff with this, and he said, what was your question? Drake, he said, he asked me something.
- [46:08]
A
And
- [46:11]
B
like, if you kill your parents, like I said, well, if you kill your parents, like the dictators Reiner situation, you cannot inherit the money. Because I was saying, well, the Menendez brothers were using the money, right? Because until the little one told the therapist he fucked it up for the two of them. I'm like, drake, just imagine, like, Brandon, like, fucking ruined something again. Like a brand. I told you, Brandon, like, sorry. And so before then, you know, they were spending the money. They were going to Cheesecake Factory and buying Rolex.
- [46:41]
A
They probably were, because they probably knew that the gig was going to be up someday. They probably did.
- [46:46]
B
But this is the funny part, so that I said, drake, just ask ChatGPT, like, how, you know, when did the law come into effect in California that you couldn't inherit money after you kill your parents? Because I didn't know if it was like, after the Menendez brother. What? And Drake's like, I do not want that history on my phone. He's like, you ask it on your own phone. And I'm like, oh, my God, you're right.
- [47:12]
A
Oh, my God.
- [47:12]
B
Anyway, the law was all the way back from the early 1900s.
- [47:16]
A
Yeah.
- [47:16]
B
And then we did ask it. Does it matter? No, it doesn't matter what state you kill them in. It's not just specific to California because.
- [47:22]
A
Well, I mean, the idea is, is you shouldn't be benefiting from your own crime. That's the. That's the.
- [47:27]
B
So since we're talking about Nick Griner, you know, I. We've talked about this before. He did have schizophrenia, and he had schizophrenia medication, which, according to People magazine, just popped up before he came. Right. It was just switched just a month ago. Right. Which I assume that would be pretty compelling evidence for a defense of insanity.
- [47:51]
A
Correct? I do agree with that. I mean, particularly since he was actually diagnosed with schizophrenia. And that medication is everything or nothing for a person that's so deep in the throes of a mental illness that's been diagnosed. So it is weird that the medication was changed, but it can happen because sometimes the medication doesn't agree with you or something else is happening or there's something happening with your physical body that doesn't agree with you.
- [48:19]
B
Well, one thing he said he was very depressed because he gained a lot of weight. So oftentimes a medication, a mental medication, can cause you to gain weight or lose weight or not sleep, right?
- [48:32]
A
Yeah, it can. But I'm also kind of wondering, the medication was changed. I don't even know if it was just the medication that was changed, my feeling is, if the medication was changed and that was causing him to gain the weight, who's to say he didn't just stop taking it all together?
- [48:44]
B
Right.
- [48:45]
A
And then if he stopped taking it all together, well, then, yeah, it's gonna change. It could change almost like overnight. And it did seem like there was. It was happening very quickly. It's a little bothersome to me that if people were seeing this, particularly the Reiners, where they have all this connection, that it wouldn't immediately be brought to the connection of the doctor or the hospital. But maybe he hadn't risen to the level of a 5150. I mean, I don't know. It's very sad because obviously they do their best.
- [49:14]
B
They've been back and forth. How many rehabs did he go into? He recently, you know, these podcast episodes are pulling up about him. And, you know, one of the things was that he was at some facility and he wanted this medication that they said, no, you're not ready for it today or you have to wait longer. So he said, so I just had to act crazy.
- [49:39]
A
Right.
- [49:39]
B
I threw a brick through the window and then they gave it to me. So now that would be fuel to the prosecution saying he can act crazy.
- [49:49]
A
Right.
- [49:49]
B
So who's to say he's not acting at this point and that he really did want to kill them? And I mean, if you're saying that it is premeditated, right. You know, did he. I wonder if prosecution has enough evidence that we're not aware of in which they're gonna build a case that he was trying to make it look again, like an intruder. There's been so much crime in LA. Brazen crime, LA. Brazen crime. There was that. Very successful. Oh, it was just horrible. Very successful black entertainment on the executive side. And his wife, she'd like, just lost her husband. She was like, big in the charity world. And some just random went into her Beverly Hills mansion and killed her. And, you know, housewives are being robbed. Non famous. Are people being robbed? So I'm saying, if I'm the prosecutor, I wonder if that's going to be something where they say, hey, look, yeah, this guy was in and out of rehabs and things like that. Yes, he had a drug addiction problem and who knows what caused that. But he, you know, got pissed at the dad, left the party. That's when he planned it out, went to the house when he knew they'd be asleep, so they couldn't put up a fight. Did it. And maybe they're going to put out a case to say he made it look like an intruder or something.
- [51:19]
A
Well, I think we really need the timeline, which I think we're still working on, and I don't think it's because obviously there's the hotel. Did he get the hotel ahead of time? Because that would show evidence of, of premeditation. Now, I know, and you've talked about it, that he was apparently did not come with the Reiners, but he came ahead of time. Why did he come ahead of time? I mean, it does kind of make you wonder.
- [51:38]
B
I do think, like, he had a beef, like, he was like, pissed, like, I'm going to show up to that fucking party, like.
- [51:43]
A
But I think the question is when we talk about premeditation, it's. But if you're in a mind that's spiraling because of lack of medication or you haven't, or you take a wrong medication, it's really interesting that it all changed within a month. Because, you know, my understanding of it through working on some cases like this and everything is that that's about what you have and it's, it's. You notice, family members notice, but you don't know. You don't really understand exactly what's happening, but you notice that there's changes. You're noticing the paranoia. It's making you uncomfortable. You certainly are not anticipating it's going to end in this kind of disastrous, but it's going to ultimately end in some very impulsive behavior. And the question is, do they have the capacity to plan when all they have the capacity to do is impulsive behavior? Like, has, has the capacity already been diminished? That's clearly, clearly it's diminished. Diminishing capacity. Diminished capacity is. It's not a full blown, like, insanity defense, but it is a mitigating defense. It can be a mitigating defense. I see. I definitely see diminished capacity.
- [52:54]
B
Well, we talked a little, I talked a little bit about you and I shared your opinion on my other shows about Alan Jackson stepping down. And he says, I'm still, you know, committed to the fact that I believe he is not guilty, but there were some mitigating circumstances that has caused me to step down. And I don't want anyone speculating. And he was like, on some podcast, and I don't know if it was TMZ or whatever, but the person's like, well, that's what we do. We do speculate. Like, of course we're going to speculate that a. You weren't going to get paid.
- [53:28]
A
Right.
- [53:28]
B
And maybe you thought that you were, maybe you thought he had enough of his own funds and a trust fund that he could pay you if the brother and sister didn't want to participate or what. But, you know, I think he had
- [53:41]
A
actually said something kind of vaguely, which would make sense. Just saying circumstances have arisen where I'm not in a position to be able to represent him. And I want to say, I don't know if you use the word conflict or something, but I read that as there was some sort of issue where I cannot represent him. And I think when I was talking to you, and I don't know if this is the case at all because he is still adamant about he's not guilty. And that could mean many things. That could mean he was never there, he never committed the crime, or it could mean he's not guilty because of diminished capacity or an insanity defense. It could mean anything. But I think something has come out and it could also be funds, but something has come out where it's compromising his ability to adequately represent him. And that's usually when you, you're just ability, your ability to, to, to present evidence is, is, is, is compromised by me. There may be what you know or what the evidence is in fact in front of you, whether that means I can't win, I don't know if it's like I can't win, but I can't present what I need to present because I maybe have been brought some information that now I can't divulge. And so that can mean a lot of different things. But he knows some, something's going on. You know, he, there's something there and that's, that's fine. But he has to be super duper, duper vague because I get the feeling that it's, it's, it's teetering on an attorney client privilege issue. And you, you know, unless you want to lose your law license, you really don't want to mess with that.
- [55:15]
B
Could it ever be that he was all excited thinking this would be like another juicy one where he could be in the limelight and when he really thought about how dark it was and there's, it's not going to be, no one's going to be on your side, unlike Karen Reed defending this person that he just decided this just wasn't something he wanted to slap his name on?
- [55:35]
A
Of course. Because the nice thing about being a successful defense attorney is you don't have to take every case because you are making money other ways, right? Yeah.
- [55:43]
B
Okay.
- [55:44]
A
There are cases that are just like I remember there was a certain time in a long time ago, but I had a case where I just after the case was over, I just said, I just don't think I can do these cases anymore. And luckily I never really had to. So I think there are people, I think there are cases that people, if you have the, you know, the luxury of not taking as a private attorney, you don't have to take it. Yeah, there's some things that just don't work.
- [56:10]
B
Kim. Will Green, who is the public defender that got it, she just said, yeah, I spoke to him for 3, 30 seconds. I'm the new attorney. I just found out. Yeah. Spoke to him for 30 seconds. She was able to get an extension or whatever until like February 20th, something, of course, before we put in the plea.
- [56:28]
A
Yeah. Or, and, and she has to, I mean, look, she's going to have a lot of cases. Obviously her, her caseload is going to be sent to other public defenders because this is going to take all of her time and she's going to have all eyes on her and everything like that. But there's no way, you're not going to get, she's going to have to fully divulge this, obviously have a lot of psychiatric evaluations. There's going to have to be all of these things to see which way she needs to go. I'm sure the evidence is just reams and reams and reams of it. She's going to have to go through forensic evidence. I mean, you might not have to go through all of that to do a plea. But if you're going to do a plea which is out of arraignment, a plea of not guilty by reason of insanity. Yes. There's some work that has to be done to enter that plea. Yeah.
- [57:09]
B
So last thing I want to talk about this was a 48 hour mystery. That's how we found out about it. It was on last week and it was very, I mean it wasn't, it was kind of like as far as, like a 48 hour mystery. It wasn't that great.
- [57:23]
A
Agreed.
- [57:24]
B
But someone sent it to me and was just like, I'd love to hear your opinion on this. So it's pretty, pretty brief story. Not as intricate as the one that we just talked about. But there was a young girl named Hannah. She was only 18 when she, you know, graduated from high school and started living on her own. And she met this 29 year old chiropractor student. He was almost out. They fall in love. They start dating in November. By February she's pregnant and they get married, right? And then they have one child and then a couple years later they have another. And during that time her mother, Nicole, just. The husband just never wants the mom around. So when she does visit her daughter or see her daughter, she does it when he's, you know, cracking backs, right? Anyway, she starts getting really sick. This young, like 24 year old, blonde, cute girl, right? Just so sick, like she can't even stand up. It's hard to take care of her kids. Loses weight. Losing so much weight, she doesn't know what do to going on. She finally like calls her mom one day and it's just like, oh my God, you got to take me to the hospital. Take her to the hospital. It's so bad. They don't know what's going on with her. They. She's has a stroke from what's wrong with her.
- [58:44]
A
I think she had a seizure.
- [58:44]
B
A seizure? Seizure, sorry, A seizure. Nicole tells the husband because they have this estranged relationship. She kind of writes with strange text, like, hey. Very strange.
- [58:55]
A
The way she wrote it was very unemotional.
- [58:57]
B
Yeah, it was like. Hey, hey, Brian, it's Nicole. I just wanted you to know that Hannah had a seizure. She's in the hospital. She cannot talk because they put her in a coma. But she probably so therefore she won't be home tonight. It was like so strange. I was like, oh my God.
- [59:15]
A
I'll tell you the one thing I didn't understand about the whole thing was the timeline on when she started to get sick to the time that she went to the hospital. It was very unclear whether it was like.
- [59:23]
B
Yeah, that was kind of unclear. But you know, it's a TV show, so we'd have to.
- [59:26]
A
But I would really like to know
- [59:27]
B
because I think it was within a few months. That's what I remember. It was like four months.
- [59:32]
A
But then it is really bothersome.
- [59:33]
B
It was never. I remember it was. It was like three to four months.
- [59:35]
A
And the husband has never brought her to the hospital before the mom did. That's weird.
- [59:39]
B
Well, no. So then he, the husband is like saying, I think it was the mother because mother used to come over every day and bring her a shake and maybe. Oh, because. Oh, sorry. They say they find out there's lead. Lead throughout her body so much that her colon is impacted, like she couldn't gain weight. She. They're like, she's gonna die. They basically said she was gonna die. They put her in a coma to like whatever Try to clean her out. And then they're like, what was she taking? And then the mom's like, well, I know that the chiropractor was always giving her these vitamins. I assume they sold it. Cause one thing I did learn about chiropractors recently is that, like. Cause this girl said, I found this girl on TikTok, of course, who's like, I used to be a chiropractor, and it sucks. Like, physically, my body was, like, so tired because I had to, like, lean. And it's all about getting people to, like, buy these supplements. Like, that's really how they make their money, according to her.
- [60:37]
A
Wow.
- [60:38]
B
That. You know, it's just not the career she thought it was going to be. So the whole thing was like, think twice. Because I thought this would be more fun or more interesting than being, like, a doctor or nurse or whatever. So anyway, maybe not as supplements.
- [60:50]
A
Yeah.
- [60:51]
B
So they're like, what are the supplements? And he never. He just, like, takes a photo of, like, vitamin C gummies and, like, something else, and she's like, I don't think that was it. But I was not there at night when he would give it. Right. Just that I remember her telling me that. And she can't say, you know, get the supplement. So he never comes. He never brings the supplements, whatever. And then they find that this guy sees something on the news about it, and he was like, oh, I helped that guy create an X ray room. And in order to do that, you need to put, like, lead within the wall so that the X ray doesn't hurt people outside of the X ray room. And I said, oh, here's the extra lead. Do you want me to dispose of it? And he said, no, I'll keep it. And then they go. And this is. You know how easily you could do it. You could just shave these lead pieces and put it in little capsules. And we're watching. And I'm like, well, now you've also told everybody how to, like, kill their wife. Like, you've just literally told people how you could poison somebody.
- [61:51]
A
I know.
- [61:52]
B
And say it's a supplement. And I mean.
- [61:54]
A
And literally shaves. Shaves it off. So it's like, almost like, you know, like pencil shavings.
- [61:58]
B
They said, like, like, you're sharpening.
- [61:59]
A
What it reminded me of is when Haley was in fourth grade and we went gold panning. Okay. So when, you know, you get those Knott's Berry Farm. Yeah. You get those weird goal. And they put. Put it in something that looks like. Almost like you know.
- [62:10]
B
Yeah. A little necklace. Yeah.
- [62:11]
A
And then they put in here. They put in, like, what you would.
- [62:13]
B
Yeah.
- [62:13]
A
You know, you take out the contact and you have, like a little plastic.
- [62:16]
B
Right.
- [62:16]
A
And then you put the little gold. Pebbles. Lead pebbles in.
- [62:19]
B
Yeah.
- [62:20]
A
And then they take it because it's wrapped in that.
- [62:22]
B
That plastic.
- [62:24]
A
Plastic container. She's not going to taste it. She's just going to. That was the idea. Was that how you hide it?
- [62:30]
B
Even when she was feeling sick, he was like, well, maybe it's because you forgot to take your supplement today.
- [62:35]
A
You know, like, it was just controlling.
- [62:37]
B
Yeah, she said he was controlling and everything else. So then finally she gets home and they're like, hey, like, we're pretty sure it's your husband that did this to you. But, you know. And she's like, oh, my God. So she files for divorce, and then she decides to go back to him. And the detective's like, okay, but I need you to sign this paper that once he kills you, you can't. Your family can't come and sue the department because we are not done investigating your weird husband. And we definitely think he tried to kill you. So if you go back to him, don't think you're on your own. Don't think your family's gonna get $5 million once you're dead. And then she was like, oh, well, then maybe I shouldn't get back with him.
- [63:17]
A
Maybe I shouldn't sign it.
- [63:18]
B
Yeah, maybe I shouldn't sign with it. Maybe I shouldn't sign it right now. But then at the same time, there was moments, whatever. So then she decides, okay, I guess I should go through the divorce. And they did then arrest him. And when he was doing all the interviews, who knows how many years this is going on? He's walking around looking confident, and then they finally like, shit. Because I was like, is it him or.
- [63:42]
A
Yeah, where's the orange juice?
- [63:43]
B
How are they getting him out of prison? But he hadn't been arrested yet, so this was all filmed before he was arrested. And of course, he had an ankle bracelet or maybe he was arrested, but they were letting him out, right. So that he could, like, you know, twist your neck or whatever. And then he. Now he's cracking backs in prison. He's a totally changed person now. We should let him out. You have no idea. He has realigned so many hardened criminals backs. He does twisties. He has created a whole stretching program, and he's doing chiropractic work for the pit bulls, the dogs.
- [64:22]
A
So one thing, one thing I thought that was so funny. Was he immediately tried to pit it against the mother.
- [64:28]
B
Right.
- [64:28]
A
Now, it was interesting because it shows them all really happy at the wedding. But then after that, she can never see her daughter when he's around. But what he says, he goes, oh, my God. She was just terrible to her daughter. She would tell her, you need to wear makeup.
- [64:41]
B
I go, oh, my God. Yeah. He goes, she would say things like, have you thought about putting on some lipstick or something? And he's like, just really, really cruel things. And like, that's why she left when she was 18. I'm like, first of all, most people leave at 18.
- [64:55]
A
Yeah.
- [64:56]
B
A lot of mothers say, you know, throw some stick on, throw some lipstick on, you might feel a little better. You know, like.
- [65:01]
A
I know, I know, I know. Our mother did to me.
- [65:04]
B
And obviously she wouldn't keep having her come around if. If she really didn't like. And they said that. The friend said that she. And the mom said that she had, like, you know, a lot of second thoughts a day of the wedding. But she's pregnant, too. Like, she's pregnant when she got married.
- [65:20]
A
And he's a chiropractor. He's cute. He's 29, but he did. I think there was one. What was. That was weird. They were at the hospital and she. She had to go to the hospital because she had some bleeding when she was pregnant. And he comes in like some tyrant and says, you know, you caused the walking, the bleeding. It's your fault. To the point enough. To the point where there was witnesses and the nurses are saying. Who are mandated, you know, somewhat of reporters saying, let us know, just give us a safe word. Well, she doesn't give us a safe word. And then she goes, well, then it got really better. Then he was really, really sweet. I mean, it's just a very difficult.
- [65:51]
B
No, she said, he was really nice to me when I was buckled over with the lead.
- [65:55]
A
Yeah.
- [65:56]
B
Because he thought she was going to die. Then we find out that not only did he have a couple million dollars in life insurance on her while she was in the hospital, he attempted to get upwards of 5.5 million, by the way.
- [66:08]
A
How would you do that? I mean.
- [66:09]
B
Well, that's why he didn't succeed.
- [66:10]
A
I mean, when you.
- [66:11]
B
This guy's really dumb.
- [66:11]
A
I mean, you have to report that my wife is on her deathbed. What insurance company is going to get you more life insurance?
- [66:16]
B
And also, before she died, millions of dollars. Like, she. She's not, you know, she's not pulling in millions of Dollars. First of all, she's a young person, so, like, you didn't think that she would die. Also, in his defense, when you're that young, it's not that expensive to get a lot of. Get a couple million.
- [66:33]
A
Yeah, it's very cheap.
- [66:34]
B
It was really him trying to get more while she was currently in the hospital.
- [66:38]
A
Yeah, there was a very.
- [66:39]
B
And he definitely was not down for visiting her anything. And then they were like, well, now we can't, like, leave you alone with him, you know, because we think, oh, and then if he does come to find.
- [66:49]
A
And when all is going on and he's arrested and he's on an ankle monitor for attempted murder, no less, he has. He's brazen enough to say, yeah, well, my kids should never been taken away from me. I'm gonna see my kids again. And I'm like, well, that's a real low burden of proof. And you're really. You've been arrested for attempted murder.
- [67:06]
B
It was just such a weird thing. Like, so you have this cute girl. You're obviously having sex because you had another kid. She's just like a stay at home mom. Like, what's the problem? How awful was it that you felt like, I have got to get rid of her, and then get rid of her in a way that's so painful. But then also, obviously he did it that way versus, like, smothering her because then he would be an immediate suspect. But also I was like, and you did this to just get insurance money? Like, like, it was just there.
- [67:39]
A
I feel like there had to be something more. That's where I kind of feel like 48 hours was a little weak because I'm like, where is the girlfriend? I mean, is this. And the guy comes.
- [67:47]
B
There really wasn't anything.
- [67:48]
A
The guy comes off as, you know, somewhat standoffish.
- [67:51]
B
Maybe he saw a 48 hour mystery a few years ago about how to do the lead poisoning. And he was like, wait, I've got the perfect way to get that lead. I'll just do a X ray thing and get it and then put it in the vitamins. And she does whatever I say, so she'll take the vitamins.
- [68:04]
A
And there was just like, no back on. Like, her. I mean, there was a little bit of her friends. We talked to her friends, but there was no background on, like. I think it was the one guy that said, but you known her for four months. I mean, to me, it almost sounded like, this girl is young and stupid and this is my plan from the moment.
- [68:19]
B
Maybe it was because she said, I didn't really feel like he was, like, really in love with me. And I didn't even know if I loved him. And then I fell in love with him once I had my child. So it's like, yeah, you're right.
- [68:28]
A
I mean, and it was a very short romance.
- [68:30]
B
And again, it was a big age difference. 29 to 18 is huge. That's like almost, you know, because it's such a vulnerable age. Like, she. Her brain isn't even done, you know, forming till she's like, 25, 26. So for her, probably her first boyfriend,
- [68:46]
A
you know, I think also let's assume that obviously he was doing this, putting in the capsules. I think there might have been a thing that kind of said, you know, I just, you know, he might have just wanted her to get. No, because it was the insurance money. I was thinking just sick enough for her to leave him. No, that's not the case. But I do kind of wonder, did he realize how. How much pain she would be in going, like, what a slow death this could have been?
- [69:11]
B
Obviously, he didn't care. Right. Well, Shannon McDonald Goldstein, attorney at law, tell everybody where they can find you if they need a legal help, either by you or your husband, Michael Goldstein.
- [69:24]
A
Our website is michaelgoldstein.net and I am on Instagram, as you guys know, and so you can always find me there. And I.
- [69:34]
B
Under Shannon McDonald. No, Shannon Goldstein. Yes.
- [69:37]
A
Yes, Shannon Goldstein. And, yeah, Michael Goldstein. We're out here in the desert, and we do all criminal. And then, of course, I do juvenile dependency, but we do a variety of things.
- [69:50]
B
So thank you. And Remember, I'm@HeatherMcDall.net, and if you're listening to Juicy Crimes and you have not left a review on Apple, would you please. Would you also subscribe to Apple as Well as our YouTube page? Like it, Share it, spread the word, and tell me what you think. Thank you so much.
- [70:11]
A
Bye. Sa.