Ed Hedges (2:55)

Thank you for having me. This is a treat. How are you?

Heather McDonald (2:59)

Well, and you're very cute. So everyone subscribe to YouTube so you can see how cute Ed is. He's not just a funny guy, he's a pretty face too.

Ed Hedges (3:08)

It's angles. It's all angles. Yeah. Zoom is very kind to me, fortunately.

Heather McDonald (3:15)

So, Ed, this is. You're the perfect person for my show because you're funny and you lived a true crime situation. Just to get a little background on you, I love that you got into standup so young that you had the bravery to do it and you won the so you think you're funny competition in the UK when you were just 19. Can you just tell me a little bit about your childhood and what made you be into doing stand up yourself?

Ed Hedges (3:46)

Yeah.

Ed Hedges (3:48)

I think I was. Well, I was always really into comedy, right? Like stand up and stuff. Always really liked it.

Ed Hedges (3:56)

I don't know why. There's probably something mentally wrong with me. But when it was like the last day of school of like, high school, our version of high school, I got into a college to do something, zoology, like veterinary science and things like that, and my heart wasn't really in it. And teachers kept coming up to me and talking to me about how exciting the future was. I was like, yeah, I kind of just. I really want to do comedy badly. And I kind of confided in one of my teachers. This is like the last dev school. I was like, I'd like to do comedy one day, but I just don't know how. And he went, oh, I don't know, go to London and put your name down from an open mic comedy show. I was like, oh, crap, it's that easy. I can just turn up and do it and then I'm doing it. So I went and did it. And honestly, it went really well early on, like you say, I sort of. Everything kind of happened quite well for me. I don't think if I'd have had a few really bad gigs early on, I don't think I would have stuck at it. But everything went well. Got invited to Edinburgh Comedy Festival, which is like a huge arts festival in Scotland. Did that competition that you mentioned, so funny. And I managed to win that. And yeah, from there, everything sort of snowballed. It's all like quite a happy accident, really.

Heather McDonald (5:05)

It's really funny that Your, your origin story is kind of similar to mine.

Ed Hedges (5:11)

What's yours?

Heather McDonald (5:12)

So I'm the youngest of five and my key. But we did grow up in the LA area. And so as a kid I had an agent with my sisters to just do commercials and stuff. But then it didn't like one of them, but it didn't last past like puberty. Like, it didn't last past like 10. We, my mom was like selling real estate. She didn't have time to take us. But my parents were like, they'd watch A and E evening at the Improv, which was like, if you had good cable, you could see it. And they were like, one day that's going to be you. So also, unlike most comedians, my parents weren't like against me pursuing it. And in college I got accepted to usc, but I was going to do like business communications and I had a music teacher say, why are you going to college? You should just be a standup. And then I said to him, I don't understand how people would find me funny. And if they don't know the teacher that I'm imitating, like, I didn't get how you could set up a joke for a broader audience. And so he was, you know, so then I didn't really do it in college. And then right after college is when I took like an actual class. And after six weeks there was a little like, show and I too had some. All my first times were very, very positive. And I say the same thing, like, if I had had a horrible, uncomfortable bombing situation, I don't know if I would have continued. So what? When people ask me about it, I go kind. I, I say do all you can to ensure that you actually will have a good first time. You really work on it, practice it on people, have your friends and family come, you know, that type of thing.

Ed Hedges (6:50)

I was so young, I think people, people kind of gave me the benefit of the doubt a little bit, you know, like how like a really young. I don't know, this is a bit of a bad comparison. But if you've got like a really young athlete on a sports team and they have like a 4 out of 10 game, people go, oh yeah, but they're young, you know, they're figuring it out. I, I don't, I think if people actually sat down and went, jon, this guy's just crap, I would have, I would have jacked it in. But it's quite, I got, I got really lucky. I got really lucky and everything kind of happened nicely and, and I did a Bit of hard work as well. And it worked. It, it worked itself out a little bit, I guess.

Heather McDonald (7:24)

So did you end up not going to college at all?

Ed Hedges (7:27)

I went for like two, three months.

Heather McDonald (7:30)

Okay.

Ed Hedges (7:30)

And then around the two month mark, someone said to me, so around the two month mark, I was doing these little open mics with like 12 people in, in London, grimy pubs. Like, it felt. All of my early gigs felt like they were in the captain's quarter of an old school pirate ship. Really low, low wooden ceilings, tiny little windows, lots of candlelight, you know what I mean? Like, everything's swinging. Whenever I think back to my first gigs, everything was like swinging and it was grimy. So I did one of these gigs and a comedian, an Australian professional comedian came by to do a gig and all the open mic were like, oh my God, she gets paid money to do it for a living. And then she came up to specifically and went, oh, you're quite good. You should keep doing this. You should just crack on. And the next day I went into college and I was like, yeah, I'm probably gonna be famous, so I don't need to come here anymore. And then I struggled for like three years to get a single pay gift.

Heather McDonald (8:24)

But that's, that's so funny because I had certain. I had a very good comedian, Caroline Ray. Tell me when we were doing like an all girl night and we ran into her and we're like, would you be our headliner? And she didn't need to do that for us. And she was just super generous. She was probably like 10 years older than us or whatever. And she said, you're really good at this. You get it, you should keep going. And it's really nice when somebody that's ahead of you, you know, is not at all threatened and actually encouraging because you get so much discouragement along the way that you just need a couple people to be like, you're on the right track. Like, you, you know, you got it, you, you get what's funny. You have a point of view, you know.

Ed Hedges (9:13)

Yeah, totally.

Heather McDonald (9:14)

Yeah. So that's really cool. Okay, so then, so then things start crack a lacking and you like, do you have an agent or what?

Ed Hedges (9:23)

So I get an agent. This is around. So I started in 2013 and this is around 2014, 15. I get an agent, I start gigging all over the place. I do Australian festivals, I go to Montreal just for laughs, all over Europe. People in America, I've realized, get quite impressed. Like, they seem impressed when English comedians are like, oh, I'm Gigging in Amsterdam or Lisbon. Honestly, it's the English equivalent of a comedian in Charleston doing a gig in Denver. Like it's, it's not with. Amsterdam is a 45 minute plane ride from London. So I naturally just did all of Europe, did Australia, did America, went really well.

Ed Hedges (10:07)

And yeah, it's. I'm kind of at the stage at this point where I'm like, I'm surviving with comedy, I'm not living an extravagant life, but I don't really need to go on holidays because I'm flying around, everything's going nicely.

Ed Hedges (10:22)

And yeah, that takes us to, I think the crimey part.

Heather McDonald (10:28)

So now how old are you at this point?

Ed Hedges (10:30)

I think so this is 2000 and I think this is when I, when I start doing the show is 2016, I believe.

Ed Hedges (10:43)

So I'm like 23, 24 at this point. I think I'm really, I've got dyscalcula and adhd. So whenever people are like specific dates, I'm like, oh mate.

Ed Hedges (10:57)

I don't need specific.

Heather McDonald (10:58)

I'm just like, I'm always someone that's in my interviewing. I'm always like, okay, what year was this and what age was it? Just so I could kind of get a perspective. But it, you don't need to be exact, don't worry.

Ed Hedges (11:07)

This. I've learned that Crimes, as fans of like any genre crime is a very detailed. They want to know what color socks you were wearing, what time of night, what the, what the wind temperature was. And I'm more of a vibes guy. So I'll be like, I think it was June and I was wearing shoes maybe. And they're like, we really need more. So like I've had to. I did. Yeah, right.

Heather McDonald (11:28)

I like that, I like that expression Crimes. I haven't heard that.

Ed Hedges (11:31)

Yeah, I went, I like that in Denver and they, they chose the name Crimes and like, yeah, I love the crimes. The crimes are really good.

Ed Hedges (11:41)

So I'm like 23 at this stage.

Ed Hedges (11:45)

And I, I'm living in London. I've moved away from my village where I grew up because I'm like super bullied there. I was a really bullied kid. I was obese, I had dyslexia, dyscalculia, adhd. And because I lived in such a small village, there was like one kid and one popular kid and one like hot girl and one sports guy. Like, it wasn't like a big town where there's different groups of people that was just like, we had the goth, we had the jock, we had the one nerd we had the one, like, popular girl. And I was the, I was the kind of. I was a dork, but I wasn't clever enough to be a nerd. So that's where I'm at. And so when I, when I turn 18, I leave the village, I never come back. I go to London and I'm being a comedian, traveling around.

Ed Hedges (12:36)

And then I guess I get invited. One night I just got back from a festival in Australia. I'm sitting in my apartment in London with my suitcases and all my stuff around me, haven't unpacked yet, and I get this phone call from someone from my village who's like, do you want to come and do a gig for us? And I've not been back there in like ages. In, in, in years and years and years. Whenever I'd meet with my parents who still live there, I would always do it two villages away in like a restaurant or they come to my place. I would never go back.

Heather McDonald (13:10)

And, and you didn't want to go back because you had such a horrible childhood with the mean other people.

Ed Hedges (13:16)

Yeah, it was that, but it was also, it was, it was kind of like a pseudo spiritual thing, right? Because I left the village and I became a new person. And in my head I was like, if I go back into that village, then I'm, I'm like acknowledging who I was and accepting that I am that person. So for me, it was like a superstition. I never wanted to go back to the place where that I, I wasn't who I was now. Do you know what I mean? It's like you make new friends, you don't want them to meet your old friends who call you like.

Ed Hedges (13:47)

Nicknames that you don't want your new friends to know. So I was trying to keep clean slate.

Ed Hedges (13:53)

But I, I agree because as you know, when you're a comedian, if someone offers you a gig and you're not gigging, you take the gig. If it's money and it's stage time you take, you take it. So I agree to it. This guy calls me, he, he talks me through it. There's a charity gig happening just outside the village I grew up in. He wants me to headline it because I've been on a few newspapers, I've done a little bit of tv, and I agreed, I went back there. The village from where I live in London is probably about a two and a half hour drive, which doesn't sound like a lot, but in England you can probably drive across the whole thing. In about seven hours. So that's a huge amount of the country to travel.

Ed Hedges (14:32)

And I go back there. I get back to the village at like. Do you want me to. Am I. Am I going too slow a little bit?

Heather McDonald (14:39)

No, no.

Ed Hedges (14:40)

I think this is good because I can. I could take ages. I go back to the village. I get there like a. Like midday. The gig's not until 8. But I'm so nervous of being in the village. I get there like, midday and I'm just. I just drive around this tiny village, like, seeing who I recognize. The village is covered in, like, posters of my face because I'm doing the gig, which is trippy.

Heather McDonald (15:02)

But if they were mean to you, wasn't it kind of great? Like, fuck you. Look at me now.

Ed Hedges (15:06)

A little. Yeah, there is definitely that. And I'm getting a little bit of that, like, now. Like, my secondary school that I went to where I was bullied, they've asked me to come back and I was like, yourself, I'm not coming back to that hellhole. Yeah.

Ed Hedges (15:19)

And they were.

Heather McDonald (15:20)

And they bullied you because you. Because what? Because you were the chubby geek or what?

Heather McDonald (15:27)

Wait, I just lost you. Hold on.

Heather McDonald (15:31)

Say it again.

Ed Hedges (15:32)

Can you hear me now?

Heather McDonald (15:33)

I can hear you. Just say why you were bullied.

Ed Hedges (15:35)

I was the chubby, not smart guy, right? So I just got a notification saying the connection is unstable, so if I freeze, just let me know and I'll pause. Okay. I was the chubby, not smart guy. And because I was so shy, people didn't realize that I wasn't just not good at school. They thought that I was just an idiot. Like, I was like Forrest Gump. That kind of vibe.

Ed Hedges (16:00)

And.

Ed Hedges (16:03)

Yeah, it was like, different levels. So the. The teachers thought I was an idiot, that my students thought I was like.

Ed Hedges (16:11)

Just like. I think they thought I was a bit of a troll because I was. I was overweight, quiet kid who didn't have, like, nice clothes, didn't play sport, didn't go to any parties.

Ed Hedges (16:22)

Just very, very, I would say, like, very alone in a very little village. And when you're very alone and everyone in the village knows each other, it, like, extrapolates the loneliness. You feel even more kind of deserted.

Heather McDonald (16:34)

What was your parents? Were they concerned that you, you know, weren't doing sports or had friends and that you were just kind of hanging out by yourself?

Ed Hedges (16:43)

My mom and dad had their hands full, so my oldest brother was really sick as a kid, and my middle brother was super smart to the point where he got a scholarship to A very prestigious school. But with that came a lot of paperwork, a lot of school trips to Europe and different, like, exotic places. As a family, we didn't really go on holiday much, but my middle brother Jack would go and stay in like old Romanian dictators houses on history trips with his posh school. Yeah, like, he sent us photos of the bed he was sleeping in. There were bullet holes above him from where the, this dictator's house got stormed. And we, we didn't go on holidays, he did. So my parents had three kids. One of them was sick. One of them was hyper intelligent and not being challenged enough. The other one was just quiet and not trouble. And I think when you're a parent doing your best, it's very easy to be like, well, Edward's not a worry. We'll worry about Edward when he has to join the workforce. That was, I think, their kind of vibe. It kind of felt like until I got a bit of confidence, people didn't realize that I had like a brain in my head.

Monet X Change (17:44)

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Heather McDonald (19:25)

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Ed Hedges (19:28)

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Heather McDonald (19:32)

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Ed Hedges (19:36)

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Heather McDonald (20:09)

The confidence come and how did it come about? I'm just thinking for, you know, anybody that's maybe has a child that's struggling like this, it's just, it's hard. You know, you worry. Even as a parent, you never stop worrying. But, like, h. How could, like, what happen?

Heather McDonald (20:26)

Someone like, what do you say to someone that's kind of in this stage of life and they have to go to school? You know, they don't.

Ed Hedges (20:32)

They.

Heather McDonald (20:32)

You don't have the luxury of sending them to a boarding school or doing homeschooling.

Ed Hedges (20:37)

If I had a child, like, if I had a child like the child that I was when I was a kid, it's really easy to say, and I'm sure, like loads of parenting books say I'm sure, but I would, the first thing I would do is listen intently, but not listen to what the kid's saying. I would listen as in, I'd watch where he goes, watch what he shows an interest in, watch what he's. So if I was, if I was watching me as a kid, I would be like, this kid is staying up late to watch, like, Comedy Central at Gotham Comedy Club on ITV4. This kid's interested in comedy. I'm going to take him to a live comedy show. I'm going to take him to, like, all these things. There are always signs on what someone's passion is. And it doesn't need to be like a cool thing. It can be gardening, it can be like little painting figurines, it can be writing stories. But for me, the confidence came when I identified the thing that I was passionate about, which was the first thing that I wanted to work hard at. And then I went out on my own and achieved something. I think my confidence came from the fact that I, as a very sheltered kid said to my Parents. I'm gonna go and do this comedy thing. I'm gonna get the train into London on my own. You're not gonna help me at all. You're not gonna know how it goes. And I got this. Independence. I think independence followed by achievement is a recipe to build resilience and confidence in a child. Let him do what he wants, let him do it on his own, let him up and then let him win something. And the maths in his head will be like, I must be good because I did this on my own. I put this together on my own and I won it on my own. Therefore, I'm capable of winning. I can just copy and paste that the rest of my life. The way, the way that I'm talking to you right now. I would never talk to someone before I was like 16, ever. I would never talk to anyone. But I did comedy. It went well. And I guess that's when my confidence came from. I guess.

Heather McDonald (22:29)

Yeah. And that's very interesting. Okay, so now let's jump back. You're, you're, you've got the gig that night in your old town. You're doing well, you're in your early 20s.

Ed Hedges (22:39)

Yep.

Heather McDonald (22:40)

Okay, so what happens?

Ed Hedges (22:42)

So I'm, I'm kind of floating around this, this town, looking at who's coming in the gig. Like, I've literally parked like an old school police stakeout near this little village hall, watching who comes into the gig and who, who's doing what.

Ed Hedges (22:56)

And I go in and I do the gig. I'm the headliner, I'm the last act on. And it goes brilliant. It goes really great. I had loads of material that I, I prepared about growing up in the villages and, and like going to school and it was really cathartic. It was a great experience for me. And after the gig, I hung around for like maybe 10, 15 minutes. I don't drink too much. At the time I didn't drink a lot. Now I don't drink at all. But I had a drink with everyone.

Ed Hedges (23:23)

And because I had like one or two beers, I, I leave my car parked in the, in the village hall car park, 20 minute walk from my front door, tops. I leave the village tour and I walk down these long countryside like lanes and into the village. And it's the middle of kind of June, July time. It's a really warm night. And because it's such a small village, you can hear like everything for miles. There's no big highways super near.

Ed Hedges (23:54)

And I'm walking down like all these little places. I Used to go at the cricket club, the. The tennis club. Walking past the shops. And I go into my little street. I walk into the kind of cul de sac where my parents live. I was staying with them that night. Walk up to my front door.

Ed Hedges (24:13)

I go in the house, I go up the stairs, I go into my childhood bedroom. And I fall asleep. And I'm asleep for maybe.

Ed Hedges (24:22)

10, 20 minutes tops.

Ed Hedges (24:26)

And then I wake up and there's someone standing, like right at the end of my bed. They're standing in complete silence. They don't say anything to me, they don't look at me. And I'm quite delirious at the time.

Ed Hedges (24:39)

My eyes kind of focus and I find out that it's my mum standing at the end of my bed. And I can see from the way the moonlight's hitting her face, she's staring out the window and she looks terrified. She looks so scared.

Ed Hedges (24:51)

And I must have cleared my throat. I must have given her some kind of indication that I was awake. I didn't say anything, but she, without looking at me, says, whatever you do, don't turn on the lights. And I was like, okay, Carol, this is a bit weird.

Ed Hedges (25:07)

So I get out of my bed, I walk out onto the landing and the whole thing, and this is the main thing I remember about this night, the whole thing feels like a movie. Like, it feels like a very cinematic thing. Everything's lit by moonlight, all the curtains are wide open. Because it's summer, we don't have AC in the uk. You just bang open the windows, try and get a draft through the house. Then when I get onto the landing, I see my dad. My dad's standing at the front of the house. This bit of the story confuses a lot of people because I'm not super clear. So I'll try and be as clear as I can. My dad is standing on the. On the top floor of our house. It's a two story house. My dad's standing on the top floor and he's standing at a window that overlooks the front garden and looks down onto the front door and doesn't turn around to look at me. But when I see him, I hear a banging coming from the front door. It's a very loud banging and it's not a knocking, it's like a severe hammering.

Ed Hedges (26:09)

And in about three or four seconds I try and put together what's going on in my head. And I realize that what's probably happened here is someone from the gig has followed me home and wants to tell Me how good I've done. They want to tell me, like, oh, we missed you. You should come back and do more comedy. We're really proud of you. Something like that. Either that or it's just someone that's from. From the pub that has gone confused about where they live. So I decide I'll go downstairs. Obviously my parents are very scared, but I think I know what's actually happening here. I go to walk downstairs, my dad puts his hand over like sort of a banister. There's like a banister here. The stairs go downstairs. He comes over the banister, grabs me by the neck and like, lifts me up, pins me against the wall. And he effectively says the same things that my mum said. She said like, don't move, don't go downstairs. Whatever you do, don't. Don't do anything.

Ed Hedges (26:59)

And the night plays out.

Ed Hedges (27:03)

And I'm not sure, I'm not sure how far do you want me to just finish telling the story?

Heather McDonald (27:08)

Yeah, I mean, yeah, I wanna. I. Yes, that's fine.

Ed Hedges (27:11)

Okay.

Heather McDonald (27:12)

They'll still listen to your podcast. I just, we.

Ed Hedges (27:14)

No, no, no. Yeah, yeah, No, I mean, it's the podcast. It's. The podcast isn't really a who done it? So we know who did it. So, yeah.

Ed Hedges (27:23)

So.

Ed Hedges (27:26)

Things kind of transpire and there's a lot of very near misses in total. What happened that night on the hallway with me and my mom and my dad probably lost. Lasted about like 5, 10 minutes max. @ the time, it felt like it was going on for like half an hour.

Ed Hedges (27:48)

And the person outside went around my house and.

Ed Hedges (27:53)

Kind of nearly got in a few times.

Ed Hedges (27:59)

And then we heard a helicopter and police sirens. And in the village where I grew up, where I grew up, there's never really more than one police car. You kind of sometimes hear fire engines, but not often. We don't have a police station really there that operates. So do you.

Heather McDonald (28:13)

Have. Do you have an ability to call like 91.

Ed Hedges (28:15)

1? We have. We have. We haven't. We have 999 which gets you through to a bigger police station outside of our village. But where our villages we have like rural police officers that do like agriculturally farmery things. But we are near a lot of big kind of towns. Like, we're not super farmer either. There are police around. But to get like six police cars into one village at one time, that's how you know something's up. You would never normally need anything like that.

Ed Hedges (28:48)

So we're on the hallway, the banging is coming from outside, and then we hear these helicopters and police cars and because all the windows are open, all the curtains are open, we see that all the trees around the house turn, like, blue and green from the. The flashing lights from the police cars. And the banging stops. And my parents go downstairs. And the weird thing for me is I.

Ed Hedges (29:12)

I just went back to bed that night and it's still a question mark on why I didn't go downstairs with my parents. The two things I've thought of, of why I didn't do that, why I didn't go downstairs with my parents and find out what had gone on that night. The first one was towards the end of the banging. I kind of figured out that this was serious and it kind of scared me a little bit and so I just wanted to leave it. I just wanted whatever the situation was outside to stop being a situation and then I'd find about it tomorrow.

Ed Hedges (29:46)

The other thing I thought was I had a gig the next day on the other side of the country. I had to get sleep because I had to get my car from the Village hall, drive to London, have a shower, get changed and get back in my car and drive four hours to Manchester.

Ed Hedges (30:01)

I don't know why I didn't go downstairs with my parents that night.

Ed Hedges (30:05)

I just.

Heather McDonald (30:06)

Didn'T. So once the police came, you're like, all right, good night. And then they went down and talked to the.

Ed Hedges (30:13)

Police. I think the police had their hands full and I think the police had a whole street to keep under control because this was like a big thing. The police, when they arrived after the banging, they had to deal with the immediate situation. And the immediate situation.

Ed Hedges (30:35)

Was that we did know who was at the door that night. We knew, me, my mom and my dad knew the person at the door quite well. The person at the door that night was my childhood bully, who bullied me every day from when I was about 10 to when I left the village when I was about 17.

Ed Hedges (30:54)

And he had killed his mum and his mum's good friend, stabbed them both, a combined total of over 110 times.

Ed Hedges (31:03)

He was identified by his shoe print on the side of his mum's friend's head. Guy called David.

Ed Hedges (31:13)

He'D had a complete and heartbreak down.

Ed Hedges (31:16)

And he had called the police. I later found out on himself when he was picked up, he was found laughing with a plastic bag with his mom's underwear in.

Heather McDonald (31:30)

He. So he killed the mom and the mom's friend the night of your comedy gig that same.

Ed Hedges (31:35)

Night?

Heather McDonald (31:36)

Yeah. So he freaked out, killed them, killed his mom and his mom's friend, and then decided he was gonna go and possibly kill.

Ed Hedges (31:46)

You. There's the question mark.

Heather McDonald (31:51)

I. Did he go to your comedy show that.

Ed Hedges (31:53)

Night? He didn't, I don't think. No, I don't think he did. And in fact, I'm gonna go on record and say, like, I'm certain he didn't go to the comedy show. I, I, for a long time avoided thinking about this.

Ed Hedges (32:06)

Especially when I was talking to a lady called Jody today who looked into all of this and did the research and came to the village for the wisecraft podcast. And.

Ed Hedges (32:17)

When she used to say, oh, do you think he knew you were in the village that night? I'd just be like, no, he didn't. And then one day, Jody had to sit me down and be like, your face was all over this village for a week, saying exactly when and where you were going to be. And he chose that night and then came to a house by coincidence. And that's when I was like, okay, cool. I kind of have to say that he. He did know all that stuff. Whether he came to attack or for help. There's a question mark there, the really scary thing. And people talk about, like, talk to me about trauma a lot. They, like, want to know how I'm dealing with it and all that. And. And to answer that question, I can do it straight off the bat. I'm fine. I'm all right. The only thing that to this day scares me.

Ed Hedges (33:07)

Takes about five minutes for me to drink a drink. Takes about 20 minutes to walk home. If I'd have had two more drinks at the gig and then walked home, I would have met a murderer at my front door.

Ed Hedges (33:23)

And that's the thing that scares me. That's the thing that really freaks me out, because I hadn't seen it last time I saw him, he was bullying me. And.

Heather McDonald (33:33)

Then. And, and how old were you was. When was the last time you'd seen.

Ed Hedges (33:37)

Him? I mean, the bullying got worse and worse, slowly and progressively, but I think the last thing that he did to bully me was flick lit cigarette butts at me at a train.

Heather McDonald (33:47)

Station. How old are you.

Ed Hedges (33:50)

Then?

Ed Hedges (33:51)

15, 16.

Heather McDonald (33:52)

Maybe. And he started bullying you when you were.

Ed Hedges (33:56)

10? Yeah, because he knew my brother, my oldest brother, Sam. And when I was still in primary school, him and Sam would hang out and. Or I should say his older brother would hang out with my older brother. And he kind of tagged along with them. So to kind of make himself look a bit more like. Of the boys, I was the easy target to Pick.

Heather McDonald (34:17)

On.

Heather McDonald (34:21)

And this is your older brother who was the really smart one or the sick.

Ed Hedges (34:25)

One? Sick.

Heather McDonald (34:26)

One. Well, can you tell me what he was sick.

Ed Hedges (34:28)

With? Yeah, he had quite a few tumors. He had a cancer.

Ed Hedges (34:34)

But it was, it was. He was really lucky. And it was fairly quickly sorted out. It wasn't one of those ones where it's like a really huge in depth one. It was a. It was a case where things kind of got fixed relatively first goie. But then it was a long period of checking and watching and seeing if it returned, which I think took a lot of my parents emotional energy to an.

Heather McDonald (34:58)

Extent.

Heather McDonald (35:01)

So was the bully guy when you were a kid, was he bullying other people or you were the only.

Ed Hedges (35:09)

Target? This is what's crazy. I thought I was the only target for years. And then since this podcast came out, the people that lived across the street from me.

Ed Hedges (35:20)

Messaged me and were like, oh, he used to put rocks in snowballs and throw them at us in winter. And he used to pick on people in this school. Like he would bully people in this school. But it's kind of crazy because looking into it with Jody, the more we've looked into it, the more we found that like, he was bullied and because he was bullied, he bullied people. But when you're a kid, like I was, you don't see any of that context. You just see there's a bully and there's me and, and it's a, it's an a B connection. You don't see the web of, you know, how society kind of failed him. So he's doing stuff to me. And yeah, what's crazy is that he had all of the same conditions I had like word, mirror for mirror. He had dyslexia, ADHD, dyspraxia. I have dyslexia, ADHD.

Heather McDonald (36:08)

Dyspurraxia. What's dyslexic? Wait, what's.

Ed Hedges (36:11)

Dyspraxia? So dyspraxia is like, imagine dyslexia for motor skills. Bad at catching, Bad. When I was a kid, I used to spill a lot of things because if there's a cup on the table, my brain couldn't say, okay, open your hand and now close your hand. So I would just flick things off a lot. It's just being not coordinated, which in turn makes you really shit at sport. So you.

Heather McDonald (36:36)

Can'T. Someone that you know was not good at sports. And back in my day at my private school, they would have the kids pick the.

Ed Hedges (36:46)

Teams. No, that's.

Heather McDonald (36:48)

Horrible. Yes, that sucks. I was never, like, dead last, but I'd be like the, you know, the last four or whatever, out of like 30, you know, or 15, whatever, 20. And only if I was the team captain, I could escape that. But even I would go and pick the four best people first, and then I'd pick my friend. And then. And then there'd always be those people that were even less coordinator than I, that looking back, they probably were like, on the spectrum or something. And we just didn't know that in the 80s. And it sticks with you for so long. And there was a case where my son.

Heather McDonald (37:37)

You know, wasn't great at sports. My younger son, and he was like, your story kind of reminds me of him. He's in college now, he's doing better. But he definitely didn't have, like, a fun childhood. Not as bad as yours, but, like, I want to say he would say it was fun, but I'm just saying there wasn't a ton of friends. It wasn't a ton of a social life. He wasn't on a team. And I, as the mom, was like, I literally, when it was the end of his eighth coming up on his eighth grade year, I was praying. I go, I want something to happen where we don't have to. I don't have to worry about it. Who's going to sit on the bus with him to Disneyland if he's going to be invited to these parties. I go, God, let something happen. I just. This is. I just want this year. I just want to go to the next school and forget about this. And then Covid happened in March and everything was.

Ed Hedges (38:28)

Canceled. Nice.

Heather McDonald (38:29)

Nice. And he was like, oh, I'm bummed we're not going to Disneyland. I'm like, I'm not. Because I had asked the teachers, can I be the parent? You know, and since I was a working parent, I wasn't in good with the other moms. So they were like, no, we've already chose those parents. And I'm like, fuck. You know, Because I was like, oh, my God, how can I work this out? Like, what connections do I have at Disneyland? I was just like, how can I, you know, make this not be sad and.

Ed Hedges (38:54)

Awkward? It's the politics, though, throughout, though, because you're not one of the mums that got to choose, and he's not one of the kids that got to sit in the cool place. It just. It just keeps going. What I've noticed is when you're alienated, when you're one of the alienated people, you Develop that part of your brain that kind of is a bit of like a I'll you I'll do it on my own then and that that makes you stand out. I'm so glad. Like I can't remember who whose quote it was but it was those I think it was. I can't. Someone will need to fact check me. But it was something along the lines of please God, please don't let me be normal and I fucking love that. Just don't let me be like.

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Heather McDonald (39:36)

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Heather McDonald (40:32)

So I got a call from a mom that was nice enough and she said, you know, they did the picking of the teams and your son was, you know, not picked until the end or whatever. And he told my son like, you know, something disturbing. And.

Heather McDonald (40:51)

So that obviously concerned me, like I just want to die or something like that. So then I, you know, I called the school and I knew the principal, she was like a great principal. And I said, and I went to that same school, I went to that same Catholic school as a kid. And I said, I cannot believe in 2000, whatever, that you guys are doing this picked the team thing. And I, and I went and had a meeting with the coach and the guy that did it, you know, and they were apologetic. They said, you're totally right. We were short staffed. And so he kind of said to the kids, hey, pick teams. I'm going to go over here. And, and I said, when you're not good at sports, when it's not natural to you, to someone who is good at sports, they don't understand it. They're like, how is this person not Catching the ball. How is this person so lame? And I said, yet in school we expect them to be good at sports. But you would never insist that every person in the class stand up and sing a solo, would you? Would you say, every day it's solo time, people? No. You would let the people that want to do that try out and have that opportunity. The other people don't have to be on stage. They don't have to give a speech in front of hundreds of people. And I said, so just think about that. I go, because for me, I can stand up in front of 10,000 people and do an act. But if you're going to put me on display to be good at sports. And so then later in life, just in the last year, I started playing and I had like a full triggering moment where like, I almost cried. And here I am, you know, successful, a mom.

Heather McDonald (42:32)

Like, I'm gonna cry about it, but it's like, I just don't think people understand what it's like. And they take it so natural that they're good at sports and they have that cockiness. And their parents were good at sports and they like. And so I'm like trying to play pickleball. And some of these women were like, I could see it, like, we have to play with her. Like, it was a little bit like that. And.

Ed Hedges (42:52)

I. There.

Heather McDonald (42:52)

Is. I thank God didn't give up. I did get better. Now everybody's nice. But. And it's a, it's an easy sport to play and that's why it's popular. Pickleball. But like.

Heather McDonald (43:04)

Just to have it follow you that long, I just don't think people.

Ed Hedges (43:08)

Know.

Heather McDonald (43:09)

No. How triggering it can be that.

Ed Hedges (43:12)

I've, I completely, it completely resonates with me. I think the thing that I always came back to and it's like very similar to what you just said. It's. People don't understand.

Ed Hedges (43:25)

How crazy it is to never get a rosette until you're a grown.

Heather McDonald (43:29)

Up. Because never get a roser, like.

Ed Hedges (43:32)

Never get like a, like a certificate or a little medal or something like that. Because if you're bad at sport and you're not the smartest and you don't have a talent, the first time you get told you've done something well is when you're like a full fledged adult. And at that point it blows your mind. But I figured out ways to like get around it. So for me, one of the things that brings me a lot of joy is watching athletes or musicians get interviewed because I'm like, that's where you suck. That's where you really suck. When you watch like an NFL quarterback get interviewed and he's like lobbing over. Like, I'm like, there, see, that's where I would do well. And that's where you've just fallen on your ass. Because, because you're right. If, if you, if you got all the kids like in school to stand up and all these brilliant like smart kids and all these athletic kids, you say to them, right, you've got five minute tryout spot at the store. Yeah, do your best. Just, they would, their heads would implode. And I also think what we do is way.

Heather McDonald (44:30)

Harder. No, I remember being in school at like fourth grade and they, you know, or eighth grade, whatever, it was most likely to succeed and you know, they picked the smartest girl or the smartest boy, you know, and those, both those people did do fine in life. Their parents have homes. They're not, you know, Jeff Bezos, but they're fine. But I remember going, I know I'm going to be more successful than all these people. But they don't know it. Like I knew it. Like, I was just like, I know I'm like bound for greatness, but I don't know how to get there or what it is. At that time I just kind of thought I wanted to be like an actress or something. But then I thought, oh no, I'll be like a businesswoman. Like, I just, I just knew that there was something. But I'm like, they don't see it because I'm, you know, a B student and these other people are a, you know, and.

Heather McDonald (45:20)

You know, thank God being a B student back then you could still get into college and stuff. Now it's like, they make it so ridiculous. But like, it's just.

Heather McDonald (45:31)

Yeah, I understand why school and like that. I really do because I'm like, this is an old fashioned way that's based on only certain kids being able to succeed. And why I think there are like more unique schools. And now, especially today, you're like, do you really have to learn a whole nother language when there's Google Translate if they are not good at language or you have a phonics problem, like, why can't you learn something else that you're good at? Do you really have to know all this math? You know, like, what other things could you teach them? And it's. Yeah, and it's always, it's always those same type of people. And then as parents, those parents that were, you know, good at school and played good at sports. They're the same dicks as parents running the. Running the school. They're the same ones that are excluding you, that are like, not inviting you to stuff. Even though I'm like, a little bit cool and famous, they. They don't care. That's, you.

Ed Hedges (46:31)

Know.

Heather McDonald (46:31)

No.

Ed Hedges (46:31)

Yeah.

Ed Hedges (46:34)

So I only learned that after that night after. Because my bully was the popular kid. He was like the. The number one, good at everything. That's why the bullying dynamic was so good for him, because he was like the. The.

Heather McDonald (46:50)

Best. But even. Even though you said he got bullied, so he got bullied when he was younger and then he turned into the bully because he got good at sports and.

Ed Hedges (47:00)

Stuff. Okay, well, I. Another thing that I've learned through, like, we did a huge investigation into it all and I learned a lot of kind of harrowing stuff.

Ed Hedges (47:12)

But my view of who he was and where he stood in society was very wrong. It was just because he was older and because I saw him be good at sports and stuff. But.

Ed Hedges (47:24)

Yeah, it was.

Ed Hedges (47:26)

It was, it was. It was a weird. It's a weird thing to go through. Okay. I've had a lot of the crimes reach out to me and they're very sweet people and they want to know, like, if I'm okay, what I've done to, like, heal. And honestly.

Ed Hedges (47:41)

The most healing. I don't really like the word healing because it sounds very pretentious in a way. I know it's good for some people, but for me in the working class background I come from, I'm a bit icky with feelings, but.

Ed Hedges (47:54)

Talking to a room full of people every night, trying to make this story funny is the most healing thing possible because it forces you to break down every beat of the story. Say, right, do I need this bit here? No, I don't need that bit here. I need to move this to here. And then you completely kind of like disassociate with what happened that night and view it objectively as a bad thing happened. I was involved, but I survived. And now we're here. And that was the most. I think after that night, it made me also realize why comedy as a medium or storytelling as a medium is really important because it's. It's easy to do comedy and storytelling things and be creative when times are good. That is piss easy. Really easy to be funny when everything's great. But when people lose their lives, when you've got like, like my brother, sick kids, when. When life is really shitty, that's when we need comedy the most. And we have a large amount anxiety in the US and the UK industry about touching serious subjects with comedy. And people get very. Like, when we. When we were talking to people about making wisecrack, people were very scared. They were like, oh, murder and comedy. And the whole time I was like, but that's when you need it. That's when you need it. You need the comedy to come in when the stakes are at their highest. And that's. That's like saying like, oh, yeah, there's a. There's a children's hospital. Everyone's really sick, probably shouldn't try and make them laugh. No, that's bollocks. We. We use comedy as a way to cope with the dark. So when it's dark, to forgo comedy is.

Heather McDonald (49:31)

Dumb.

Heather McDonald (49:34)

So. So then. So you go, the next day, you get your bag, you go. Because you. You're not going to blow off a commitment where you have a.

Ed Hedges (49:42)

Gig.

Heather McDonald (49:43)

Yep. And then what do your parents say? Do you talk to them the next night? And they're like, holy shit. Because. Did you leave knowing that this gu already killed his mom and the mom's best.

Ed Hedges (49:52)

Friend? Yeah, we found out. We found out the next morning.

Ed Hedges (49:57)

I left. When I left, I. If I'd have. If I'd have had to, you know, go, like, if I'd have had to go that night, I wouldn't have got out because everything was completely shut off because of evidence and stuff like that. And. And where they picked Brett the bully up was about 6ft from my front door.

Heather McDonald (50:20)

So. So with He. Wait, hold a question. Was he the one banging on your door or was that already the.

Ed Hedges (50:26)

Police? No, that was.

Heather McDonald (50:27)

Him. Oh, my God. And did he have a knife with.

Ed Hedges (50:31)

Him?

Ed Hedges (50:34)

I'm gonna say no. I think he abandoned the knife. He had used a number of different knives from the kitchen. They were all blunt. They were all the worst knives you could use. And again, he stabbed his mum and David, her friend, over a hundred.

Heather McDonald (50:51)

Times. And were they. Were they a couple, his mom and the David person, were they.

Ed Hedges (50:55)

Like. It might have been. I believe I. I've. I've always thought they were. I've always thought about every.

Heather McDonald (51:01)

Single. And as a man in his 20s, was he living with them and, like, not. Not really scoring in life or what was he.

Ed Hedges (51:10)

Doing? It was. So.

Ed Hedges (51:15)

His mother who. The woman that lost her life, her name was Jillian, she was living the hardest.

Ed Hedges (51:21)

And I didn't know any of this at the time when I started telling the story, but now I know she was living A very hard life with him.

Ed Hedges (51:29)

I'm not sure if that night he was in his car because Jillian didn't feel safe. Jillian knew what was.

Heather McDonald (51:34)

Coming. Oh, you mean he was living in his car because she had kicked him.

Ed Hedges (51:37)

Out? I, I believe so, yeah.

Ed Hedges (51:42)

It. In the, in wisecrack we go into some real heavy details. We actually interview his surviving biological father about what it was like living with him and the early warning.

Heather McDonald (51:51)

Signs. That's.

Ed Hedges (51:54)

Interesting. Yeah, it's. It's a really hard. There are parts in wisecrack that are really hard to listen to me and Jody who's. But we, we nearly, I nearly walked from the whole.

Heather McDonald (52:08)

Thing. Why? Because it's just too dark and too.

Ed Hedges (52:11)

Much? No, because. Because. Because at a certain stage when, when something like this happens to you and you present a first hand account to people, crimes will always want more. They'll want more information, more DNA, more everything. But as someone that's telling the story, not as an expert, not as a true crime lover. I, I was thrown into this true crime kind of world. I didn't want to be here. I'm a comedian. I. This is just a story. I like telling stories. This is a banging story.

Ed Hedges (52:40)

But Jody is a crimey and Jody knows that. The essence of a true crime story, the essence of the story is we need the details. We need the hardest of hard details. We need to know what socks you were wearing. Like I say, we need to know what the wind temperature was. So Jody at one point was pushing me so hard, I was like, well, what the do you want me to do? I can only tell you how much I know. And if I tell you any more than what I know, that's called lying. And if I lie, I'm lying about two people that have died. And I know and we can't do that. That my two rules for this show, when it was a show, we never punch down and we never lie about any victims or any events of that night. That were the rules. Because if you do that, then it. Make it. Make it a crazy story, make it so he got in the house, make it so he held me a hostage. Like if I'm gonna lie about a little thing, just do a bigger story, make it crazier, make him kill seven people.

Ed Hedges (53:39)

So yeah, that's. I snapped at her. Anyway.

Ed Hedges (53:44)

So then the next morning I go, I don't talk to my parents. We're not a talking family, we're not hugging family. I call my mum every other day probably. And on those calls I touched on it and it Was always just, yeah, it's a real shame what happened. Oh, it's so terrible. Oh, I spoke to Lisa down the post office and she said this. I spoke to this guy, but we never really went into it in detail. My middle brother, Jack, the intelligent one, he lives quite far away. He's got kids, lives about two hours away. My mom didn't want to bother him with it or scare him with it, so she told him what had happened that night, but she didn't go into the full details of, you know, how close it was.

Ed Hedges (54:23)

Because she's a mother of three boys and we. We're not. We're not a super tight family. One of the comments that we got was, I don't understand how three sons can be so separate. And it's because we're so separate. 1 1. Jack's really intelligent. He does his thing. I'm a. I tell stories, I do my thing. We all live in different parts of the world.

Ed Hedges (54:44)

So I. I go off and I keep living my life.

Ed Hedges (54:49)

And for about a year, it didn't hit me that I could tell this story on stage. Until one day I went to a storytelling gig where you don't need to get a laugh just because I wanted to gig that night, wanted to work on just storytelling. And the host the day before was like, well, you should kind of maybe tell a really good story. And I'd spoken to a friend of mine, Sophie, about what stories I could do an hour show about. She was like, well, what's your best story? When I told both of them my story idea, they were like, yeah, tell that story. Try and make that funny. So I went to the storytelling night and for about.

Ed Hedges (55:25)

Four weeks, twice a week, I just told the story the way I've told it to you. Straight, flat, no jokes. And then one day I did the storytelling night. And being a comedian, I. I'm a. So I felt the need to get a laugh at some point and I got a laugh midway through the story. And something in my brain was like, oh, you can get a laugh telling a story like that. That's like, that's really creatively, like, oh, that's really good. So I started to, like, flow the idea of making this a comedy show where we talk about men's mental health, we talk about masculinity and we talk about talking. And yeah, I. I previewed it alone, I worked it alone, I got it ready in the clubs, I took it to the Edinburgh Festival. It did really well. I went to Australia, went to America. But when I was in the Edinburgh Festival. I was the day after my birthday and I was really hungover.

Ed Hedges (56:24)

This is way back. This is like 2017 maybe. And the co host of Wisecrack Jody was at the festival and she came into my show one night when it was raining, just to get out of the rain. She had no idea what she was walking into. And it just so happened that I was doing a true crime comedy show and a true crime TV producer from Discovery Channel walks in and yeah, she wanted to, she wanted to, to make this a deep, heavy true crime podcast. And we did. And it's gone all right. We got. We. Yeah, it's gone all.

Heather McDonald (57:00)

Right. I mean, it's really interesting in your story, the sliding door aspect of life, you know, like, had you had two more drinks had she not walked in.

Ed Hedges (57:09)

There? No one picks up on that. No one picks up on that. Only you're the first person that's actually picked up on how there's like, there's like, oh yes, there's like four or five moments in the show, in the story, in my story of making the show, where it's a split second of she happens to go in there, I happen to go to Atlanta on this state. We happened to drive down this road to get to Charleston, South Carolina. I got to my house a little bit later, I accepted that gig. There are so many little things that have lined up perfectly that mean we couldn't have like, we couldn't have planned this any, any better. If we'd have sat down and orchestrated a true crime scenario and a origin story and someone pitched what happened with Wisecrack to us, we'd be like, no, that's not believable. That would never.

Heather McDonald (57:55)

Happen. Right? You know, in coming up with funny making, I remember in early part of my career I had this, this manager and she goes, heather, you need to talk more about like your up older siblings and how I was a young age of five and we would have to go to the rehabs my one summer to visit my brother who went to prison and all that kind of stuff. And I remember it was like, how is. And I was like 24 at the time, 25. And I was like, how is that funny? I'm just doing dating stuff, you know, and from my like Valley girl sorority life perspective. And one day I was writing for Keenan Ivory Wayne's. He had a late night talk show and we're in a, in a writer's room and I said, I go, well, yeah, my brother, you know, was a stalker. And they're like, What? And I go, yeah, he worked at a home goods. Someone in kitchenware said hi. He got the wrong impression. And you know how that goes. And everyone just, like, died laughing. And this guy, this writer comes in, he goes, you need to write more stuff like that, because that's exactly what it was, you know. And then the. The girl who he was stalking, her fiance, like, called my dad and was like.

Heather McDonald (59:11)

You know, she doesn't really want to, like, get him arrested, but, like, he's got to leave her alone and he can't rewriting her letters. And, like, then my dad has to deal with this, knowing that for always my brother was off. And. And he did off things throughout his life. He's passed now, but there was a sweetness about him, but he was off. You know, we never really knew what it was. And so it's. You know that when you're. Again, you're growing up in a house that's like, you know, you're. My parents did well. We went to private school, but we were far from a perfect family. You know, I knew. I knew this brother was never going to get married. I knew this brother was the drug dealer of the town. This sister turned out to be. I did a whole. My. My podcast took off because I decided to tell the story. Serial Sister is what I called it. And I made it the first 10 minutes or the last 10 minutes of every show. I think it was the last 10 minutes of every show. I did an installment of Serial Sister, which was about my relationship with my sister. And I was, like, the first person to, I think, to really discuss dysfunctional adult sibling relationships. And when in your life can you cut that sibling off? Because I'm always like, blood is thicker than water. When can you cut them off with the guilt of the Catholic parents being like, oh, just let him come and just, you know, da, da, da, da. And you're like, no. Like, we dealt with this weirdness my whole life, and I'm not gonna deal with. We're not going another generation. And I remember telling my dad because he wanted my weird brother to, like, come to my son's baseball game. And he was like, my dad was, you know, in the hospital and out of the hospital, like, his last few years of life. And I just said, dad, I'm choosing my children over your happiness. Don't ask me again. And it was like. It was a really, like, hard moment for me to just be like, no.

Heather McDonald (61:16)

No, no more with the weird siblings yelling at me and leaving me nasty messages and thinking I'm richer than I am, and that I, you know, should be taking care of them, whatever that was. And. And then to be able to. I decided to share the story because I was like, written books and everything, and I'm like, there's one story that I've never told, which was the story, the relationship with my sister. And I was like, I'm gonna tell it because if I ever become more famous than this, she will be the one going which. Podcasts were just beginning when I started to tell the story 10 years ago, but I more imagined her like in Touch magazine and like, telling stuff like the way Kris Jenner's sister for a minute did stuff until I think Chris kind of paid her off. But, like, it was that kind of thing where I was like, oh, this is. And. And then I'm going to have to defend myself. If I tell the story now 10 years at this point, if anything weird happens in my career and there's a pile on. And they find her, her story, what, her whatever lie she wants to tell about myself, my husband, it will not really truly build belief because even people who hate me will be like, well, I heard that herp version 10 years ago and that tracks. And that's why I'm like, if you have a story to tell, be the first one to tell it. Yeah, be the first one to tell it because they're, you know, and it's your story to tell. Some people, I. Every time I. I would do the podcast, I'd wake up with anxiety and I was like, oh, God, they're going to say I'm a horrible sister. How could I share this stuff? How could I? And it wasn't. It was this overwhelming amount of support of people being like, nobody talks about having a up family member like that and a sibling more so than a mom or dad. But as an adult sibling, where you're like, I kind of was like, yeah, you. You grew up with this person. Maybe you shared the Same home for 10 or 12 years based on age after that. Like, why do you owe them your life at 50, like, or 40 or whatever, like, if it's not working out. So, you know, and it's sad. It's sad not to be close to a sibling because you still have those fun type memories. But yeah, as a comedian, you absolutely can tell the darker stories and then you.

Ed Hedges (63:36)

Stories. It's kind of our job, right? It's kind of our job, right? Like, we're coming into a time now where.

Ed Hedges (63:43)

I think social media has swung so hard negatively against everyone's life. Against our, against the way we see ourselves, against our ideas of what beauty is, against our self value. But one good side of social media and all of this toxic. I fucking hate social media more than anyone. The one good side of it is we're all seeing that everyone's shit stinks. We're all seeing that none of our cars are clean all the time, that we all have, like, laundry to do. Like, we're starting to be like, okay, cool, so we, so we all go on a diet and fuck up the diet, then go on another diet. And we've been doing that for 10 years because we hate ourselves. Okay, cool, I understand. We've all got just enough, like, anxiety to keep smiling when we talk to people we hate. Like, and I think it's the comedians that this is a great time as comics. I think we've been doing it for a while to start calling out the weird things, like the minutiae. I don't know. That's. That's something that I'm really drawn to now. I'm really sick of. I think. Like, I'm really sick of people. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know what I'm. It's fakeness, I guess. Yeah, it's, it's, it's. It's a perfect. It's a perfection. Every time I see something on social media now where everything's perfect, like, absolutely flawless, amazing house. Like just an even number of lemons in a basket on the table. Yeah, I feel you. You show me a cupboard that's got sticky shelves. That's what I want to say. I want to see the weird.

Ed Hedges (65:16)

That's.

Heather McDonald (65:17)

Amazing. So obviously we want everybody to listen to your podcast and to follow your comedy and where they can see you. But can you tell me what did happen to the bully? The guy, the murderer? Is he. Did he get put away.

Ed Hedges (65:33)

Or. Yeah. So this is, this is a hard part. So I'll. He was put away in prison. They found him to be completely mentally fine.

Ed Hedges (65:46)

Okay. Mentally fine. He was fine. Apparently, according to the judges.

Ed Hedges (65:52)

He is no longer with us. He was strangled to death by two cell mates who were told by their separate gods that they should kill him and release him from his pain.

Ed Hedges (66:06)

So that's. That's sad to think that an already sad story had a very sad ending for that individual. I know that he's a murderer. I know that he did terrible things. Sad to think of the kid that, yes, I hated when I was a kid, but he was still a kid getting Strangled to death in a prison.

Heather McDonald (66:26)

Alone. Did he ever say with his defense attorneys or whatever that he did have a mental break or why did he decide to kill these people?

Ed Hedges (66:38)

He. He pleaded insanity. He pleaded insanity. He pleaded everything. He denied that he did it at one stage. He said that he came out and found them. I mean, Jody in the podcast is very good at listing out everything that he tried to say and then everything that they said back. But as far as I'm. I'm not the numbers guy. I'm just a kid. But as far as I. I can say, he. He tried everything he could to get off the hook and to get a lighter sentence, and the courts wouldn't have it.

Ed Hedges (67:13)

Personally, I think that's.

Ed Hedges (67:16)

Because having seen the change in him from when he was a kid to when he was an adult in photos, it's.

Heather McDonald (67:24)

Harrowing.

Heather McDonald (67:27)

You do believe he was mentally.

Ed Hedges (67:29)

Sick? I don't believe there was a single thing happening in his head that was good. I think that boy needed.

Heather McDonald (67:35)

Support.

Heather McDonald (67:37)

They probably need to be institutionalized before.

Ed Hedges (67:39)

100. Minimum. Minimum. I think. I think this is a story of a murderer that came to my house. This is a story of three examples of masculinity that have gone askew. This is a story of Jody finding out what in comedy is sacred. Can comedians extrapolate like, or stretch the truth? That's what she looks into in this. But I also think it's a story about how the British institutional institution and. And criminal justice system and mental health system completely dropped the ball and did it knowingly.

Ed Hedges (68:17)

And I know that because every single time we've tried to. Because if this happened to me, three. And this is the thing that I really get annoyed. If this happened to me three years later, right, 2019, my parents would have had a ring doorbell or a video doorbell. We would have had all the evidence there. Every question, every single question that any fan has got would have been filmed. We didn't have that.

Ed Hedges (68:39)

So.

Ed Hedges (68:42)

There are so many things that I kind of wish happened differently with this one, that. With this. With this story, with the show, with everything with the podcast, there are so many different things that could be variable, but the one thing that is continuously cropped up is when you look through the case, when you look through what happened that night, you can, as an untrained person, be like, well, the government should have stepped in here, here, here, and here. These are red flags. This is a sign of someone that's going to kill some people. It's. It's obvious, dude. It's so obvious. Like, it's so obvious where they, where people fucked up and now people are.

Heather McDonald (69:17)

Dead. Well, of course, you know, we obviously suffer from that same system in America where it's like.

Heather McDonald (69:26)

It'S just really, it's very difficult because it's like the bureaucracy of it. And you know.

Heather McDonald (69:34)

No, they shouldn't, they shouldn't, they should be allowed to live on the street and, you know, make. Put a tent somewhere and, and do drugs. We should allow that it's wrong to put them in an institution. And then one would say, no, we should put them in institution because they're never going to get better. I mean, one of the things was I interviewed this one girl and she's like, you now doing crystal meth or whatever she was doing would not have put her in prison, but the time it did and it was the best thing ever because she was being trafficked and she was a drug addict. And it, by being in prison, it got her sober. And she went on to, you know, be married, have kids. I mean, she's even selling real estate. Like, she's like. But if, if exactly what you're saying, if her situation happened maybe today.

Heather McDonald (70:26)

She wouldn't be arrested. They would just say, you know, oh, here's some clean needles for you. Like, just stay over there, whatever. In certain cities and in. Then it's just, it's just a really, it's so hard then also for a parent that's. Has a child that's in that place, you know, and.

Heather McDonald (70:46)

I mean, with my own situation with my brother, my dad was a marine and from a very young age, he's. He would give to gun control and he would donate to gun control. And he said, I never want a gun in this house because someone in the house will use it first. And it's the first thing to be stolen and everything else. I've also told people in America, like, you are equipped and you want one and it makes you feel safe and all of that is good. But it literally was like the first question I asked my husband on a date. How do you feel about guns? He's like, I don't have one. I go, I never want one in the house. And he's like, okay, we've never had one in the house. And we had an incident that happened that I was like, if there was a gun in the house, how something could have gone. And even though we were in the house and we were protecting our property, it could have gone away. That then the US as property owners could be in prison. Yeah, you know what I mean, like, it's just so. For me, that's the. I would rather risk that and not have the gun because the alternative is it's, it's quicker to kill yourself, it's quicker to get angry, you know, how to use it, you know, all that kind of stuff. And yeah, it's a, you know, it's a very, it's just a, It's a hard.

Ed Hedges (72:09)

Situation. That's a question that was asked to.

Heather McDonald (72:12)

Me.

Ed Hedges (72:12)

Yeah. When I did, when I did the show, I did the show in Denver and people said this, this made you reevaluate your stance as a person on.

Ed Hedges (72:21)

Your security. They worded it in a really sneaky way. And I was like, nah, nah. I think I, I don't, I don't want to put my voice into the American gun thing at all because I'm not an American, I'm not a citizen, and I don't feel it's my right to.

Ed Hedges (72:38)

But I'll be honest, my view on gun control. Right. Is if I had a gun in the house, I, with my, with my dyspraxia, I can't trust myself. I'd be cleaning and I'd blow my foot off. Like, I, I can't be trusted with most cups. And you're going to give me a Glock. I'm kind of like minimum. A dog is going. I'm going to do some drywall damage. We.

Heather McDonald (72:59)

Are. I mean, I totally agree with you. For one thing, I can't, I can't work a lighter very well. You know how well the lighters do. Like a candle, you know, like a lighter I get scared to light. Like a fire pit. I oftentimes need to call someone to help me figure out where Hulu is on my tv. Like, I can't work a remote. I don't need to be the. In that moment. I, yeah, like I said, the rit. What could happen is too much of a risk for me to then feel the safety of it. But for other people, totally good. I love knowing that my neighbor across the street was strapped and I need, if I needed something, I could run to him. I just don't want in my.

Ed Hedges (73:41)

House. You know, the, the best person I know to own a gun is a, is a guy in, he lives in Atlanta. I've seen in his gun is in his gun closet. And there was not a part of me that looked into there and saw these guns. I was like, you're the perfect. You're the most reasonable, well adjusted person I've ever met. You will have researched each of these weapons and know exactly what they do and you would only use them as a deterrent. Like I, I 100 think there are lots of very, very good gun.

Heather McDonald (74:07)

Owners.

Ed Hedges (74:08)

Yes. They're. They're not the ones that make the. Anyway, yes, yes, I'm gonna avoid that.

Heather McDonald (74:13)

Yeah. So, yes, exactly. But it's okay because I mean like sometimes I'm like, ugh, you know what, it's fine. Like I, I've been very like non political with my podcast Juicy Scoop and all that for years and I still am. But sometimes I'm like, when you talk about social media, sometimes I'm like, oh, off. I'm scared of, I'm done being scared that I said something that someone's going to dissect it and try to make a tick tock about it and try to say I'm this way. Like, I'm just like, you know what? Just tomorrow's a new show. You didn't like this one? Like, it's just like, it's just like, it's a certain point. I'm gonna let you go. But this.

Ed Hedges (74:48)

Was. Thank you so much for having.

Heather McDonald (74:49)

Me. Interesting talking to you and tell everybody where they can find you and where they can see your stand up and your shows and your podcast and Instagram and all of.

Ed Hedges (74:58)

It. So I am new to Instagram. I've only had it since September. I've not got a lot of followers. But it's Ed. You spelled Ed with 2D so it's E D D H E D G E S. If you would like to follow me, I would love that. That'll be very nice of you because I'm not good at Instagram. I just made my first real and it sucks. So yeah, that, that's the place. I'm doing shows in America throughout 2026 and I'm going to be there in December this year doing some shows in New York. And yeah, lots of fun things. But thank you so much for having me. This has been an absolute treat. I really appreciate you, you having me on.

Heather McDonald (75:33)

Yeah. And if you ever are coming to LA for anything, I definitely would love to have you come on the show. Either show Juicy Scoop or Juicy Crimes. Juicy Scoops, like the more fun pop culture one. And that would be really fun to get like, you know, more your perspective on just silly things like hot and stuff like that. And thank you so much. This was great and so intriguing. I know people are going to just love this interview. So thank.

Ed Hedges (75:59)

You. I hope so. Thanks for having.

Heather McDonald (76:01)

Me. Take care.

Ed Hedges (76:01)

Bye.

Monet X Change (76:02)

Bye.

Monet X Change (76:29)

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Ed Hedges (78:07)

Vary. Not badly for McDelivery.