Juicy Crimes with Heather McDonald

Episode: World's Worst Mother with Andrea Dunlop

Date: October 1, 2025
Guest: Andrea Dunlop, author and host of Nobody Should Believe Me podcast
Main Theme: Munchausen by proxy, mother-driven abuse, and the chilling real-life case of Lisa McDaniel

Episode Overview

This episode explores some of the most harrowing instances of Munchausen by Proxy (now often termed "medical child abuse")—particularly focusing on mothers as perpetrators. Heather is joined by Andrea Dunlop, who brings deep expertise from her podcast Nobody Should Believe Me. Together, they dissect recent high-profile cases—from Netflix documentaries to infamous figures like Gypsy Rose—before Andrea details one of the most disturbing cases she’s ever covered: Lisa McDaniel, a convicted abuser whose life has been built atop years of deception, manipulations, grifting, and tragic consequences.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Munchausen by Proxy in the News

• "Cyber Munchausen" & Netflix's "Unknown Number"
  • Discussion of the recent doc about high school catfishing and the concept of "cyber Munchausen" (03:08).
  • Quote [03:38] Heather: "It was a really profound statement. He's like, I think this is cyber Munchausen's by cyberbullying."
• Enmeshment & Motivations
  • Andrea: Munchausen by proxy is about creating crises to garner sympathy and attention, often via medical abuse, but also emotional/psychological to position the parent as a victim or hero (04:17).
  • Direct parallels between these motivations and newer, online versions of parental manipulation.

2. Reflections on Gypsy Rose & Visibility

• Rapid fame post-release, media exploitation, and worries about reintegration and support (07:09).
• Quote [07:55] Andrea: "She's having these tumultuous relationships with men, and now she's had, you know, has had a child. And so I just really hope for her that she finds some really good support."

3. Perpetrator Accountability

• Munchausen perpetrators rarely take full responsibility; tend to minimize or justify, only confessing when there's irrefutable evidence (10:02).
• Quote [10:02] Andrea: "It is vanishingly rare for a perpetrator to take anything like full accountability."

4. Motivations: Power and Control, Not Just Attention

• Deep dive into the root of these behaviors, asserting that power and the unique unchecked authority given to motherhood play major roles:
• Quote [14:33] Andrea: "That's the only place we give women full authority without question...abusers will abuse power where they find it."
• Comparison to positions of power in male abusers—clergy, coaches, etc.

5. Pathological Lying & Related Disorders

• Perpetrators display widespread deception, not just medical but financial fraud, false credentials, false crime victimhood, and even numerous affairs (17:43, 19:44).
• Lying is central to the abuse; perpetrators are comfortable, even thrilled, by deceiving others (20:02).
• Notable moment [20:01] Heather: "How do you have time to do all this?"
• Quote [20:02] Andrea: "Scamming is their full time job...it's their sweet spot, so that does not make them uncomfortable. And it gives them a thrill."

Featured True Crime: The Lisa McDaniel Case

1. Background & Setting

• Hazlehurst, Georgia, small rural town (25:11).
• Lisa McDaniel: mother of three, convicted abuser whose case Andrea describes as one of the most egregious and clear-cut she’s ever seen (22:44, 23:49).

2. First Victim: Angelyn

• Angelyn, born severely premature, was repeatedly hospitalized for "unexplained" critical health events (25:54).
• Nurses grew suspicious—video surveillance caught Lisa trying to suffocate and inject feces into Angelyn’s IV (28:36).
• Quote [28:36] Andrea: "She was putting feces in the IV...they caught 55 instances during the time period they were videoing her."
• Lisa served only 8 months in prison; daughters placed with grandparents, who tried but failed to keep them because the state's system allowed Lisa to regain custody (29:28-33:42).
• Discussion of how rare it is for parental rights to be terminated even after child abuse convictions (33:30).

3. Second "Crisis": Colin

• Reunited, Lisa gives birth to a son, Colin. By age 5, Lisa claims he develops a rare disease causing blindness—neuromyelitis optica (NMO).
• She chronicles every detail on a caregiver blog, totaling 170,000 words over four years (35:19).
• Colin is subjected to extreme medical interventions, escalating medical drama, and ultimately hospice care (the disease itself was not terminal) (43:04-46:29).
• Key Red Flags:
  • Multiple unexplained septic episodes (polymicrobial blood infections), a classic Munchausen by proxy sign.
  • Doctor in Alabama (Jane Ness) was warned about Lisa’s history but never reported suspicions; hospital moves helped evade scrutiny (37:07, 44:00).
  • Lisa begins publicly planning Colin’s funeral and leveraging his illness for donations and perks—e.g., Make-a-Wish trips, free housing (47:02).

4. Exploitation & Embedding into Advocacy

• Lisa becomes embedded in the Guthy-Jackson Charitable Foundation, a high-profile rare disease nonprofit founded by Victoria Jackson for her own daughter’s NMO. Lisa rises to Director of Patient Advocacy, shaping the public face of the disease and having access to vulnerable patients’ information for 13 years (49:11-53:39).
• Revelation: Andrea’s investigation finds the foundation unaware of Lisa’s past; Lisa is fired after Andrea notifies them (50:45).

5. Legacy of Harm & Systemic Failure

• The chilling fact that Lisa continues to live with her abused daughter and grandchildren (60:43).
• Lack of preventative measures even after clear evidence (mistaken assumption that doctors or courts would ensure child safety).
• Andrea and local reporters attempt direct confrontation; Lisa continues to minimize and obfuscate, never providing Colin’s full medical records or satisfaction of any doubts (62:13-66:56).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Victim-Bonding:
  Heather: "The children...feel a strong bond to their parents too, just like they all do. It's primal. It's survival." [33:42]

• On Perpetrator Relentlessness:
  Andrea: "They are relentless about getting what they want on a level that most of us just would not...they will go to such extremes, right." [33:42]

• Investigative ‘Elle Woods Moment’:
  Andrea meticulously unravels Lisa’s claim about a positive NMO test, catching details that undermine Lisa’s narrative. "That was kind of my Elle Woods moment..." [64:21]

• On System Failures:
  Andrea: "You can go to jail for child abuse and not have your rights terminated...most people would be surprised by that." [31:37]

• On Institutional Vulnerabilities:
  Andrea: "Rare disease organizations...are such a target for these perpetrators that you have to be really careful...Most parents would never do this. This is an aberration, but it's not so rare that you don't need to watch out for it." [70:56]

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | |-----------|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 03:08 | Cyber Munchausen & "Unknown Number" Netflix doc talk | | 10:02 | Perpetrator accountability and minimization | | 14:33 | Discussion on motherhood, power, and abuse | | 17:43 | Sherri Papini, pathological lying, affairs, and Cluster B behaviors | | 22:44 | Introduction of the Lisa McDaniel case | | 25:11 | Case details: small town, premature birth, hospital suspicions | | 28:36 | Video evidence: Lisa caught actively abusing infant daughter | | 29:30 | Aftermath—custody, state system, family impacts | | 33:42 | Relentless behavior of perpetrators; children’s trauma | | 35:19 | Colin’s illness and the 170,000-word blog campaign begins | | 43:04 | Medical red flags, unexplained septic infections | | 46:29 | Colin’s decline, hospice care, and death | | 49:11 | Lisa’s infiltration of NMO advocacy, career built on child’s death | | 50:45 | Andrea notifies Guthy-Jackson Foundation, Lisa is fired | | 60:43 | Lisa now living with the original abused daughter and her grandchildren | | 62:13 | Andrea and journalist confront Lisa | | 64:21 | Andrea's investigation, Lisa stonewalls requests for medical records | | 70:14 | The rare disease community’s trauma after Lisa’s exposure | | 70:56 | Final warnings to rare disease organizations and families |

Final Thoughts

• Systemic Failures: Even clear-cut child abusers can regain custody; rare disease nonprofits can be exploited by manipulative perpetrators, risking more vulnerable families.
• The Human Toll: Survivors like Michelle (Lisa's daughter) bravely speaking out, but live with the weight of trauma and family fallout.
• Media Matters: Publicity can help bring awareness, but sensationalism without action leaves children at risk.
• Call to Action: Andrea and Heather stress vigilance by medical professionals, nonprofits, and the broader public.

Where to Listen & Learn More

• Nobody Should Believe Me podcast (Season 6 covers the Lisa McDaniel case in great depth; more updates expected)
• Andrea Dunlop on Instagram
• Heather McDonald’s work at heathermcdonald.net

This summary captures the episode’s key themes, urgent warnings, and complex emotional layers—providing both a riveting true crime narrative and a chilling look at what happens when systems fail the most vulnerable.