Fake Pregnancies and Blake Lively’s Regrets with Dave Neal

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Fake Pregnancies and Blake Lively’s Regrets with Dave Neal"

Podcast Information:

• Title: Juicy Scoop with Heather McDonald
• Host/Author: Heather McDonald & Studio71
• Episode: Fake Pregnancies and Blake Lively’s Regrets with Dave Neal
• Release Date: March 18, 2025

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Introduction

In this riveting episode of Juicy Scoop with Heather McDonald, host Heather McDonald engages in a deep and unfiltered conversation with guest Dave Neal. The discussion delves into the murky waters of Hollywood scandals, focusing on allegations surrounding Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni, as well as broader themes of influencer culture and the sustainability of reality TV franchises.

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1. Unpacking the Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni Controversy

Heather and Dave kick off the episode by dissecting the highly publicized allegations against Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni. The conversation centers around accusations of sexual misconduct, alleged smear campaigns, and the complexities of public perception in Hollywood.

Notable Quote:

• Heather McDonald [04:32]: "We have all of these receipts that show a completely different story, and audiences just want some authenticity there to speak it."

Dave provides his perspective on the situation, suggesting that while initial reports hinted at possible misconduct, the evidence presented later painted a more nuanced picture. He emphasizes the importance of verifying facts before forming judgments.

Notable Quote:

• Dave Neal [04:11]: "I do believe that there could have been a smear campaign. It'll be hard to prove, but it's fascinating."

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2. The Role of Astroturfing and Public Manipulation

The duo explores the concept of astroturfing—fake grassroots movements designed to manipulate public opinion—and how it plays into celebrity scandals. They discuss how quickly narratives can be shaped online, often without substantial evidence, leading to widespread misconceptions.

Notable Quote:

• Heather McDonald [07:36]: "It's fake grassroots. I'm always there to call that out because it's so easy how quickly people can be manipulated based on one story."

Dave adds that the rapid spread of information (and misinformation) on social media platforms exacerbates the issue, making it challenging to discern truth from fabrication.

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3. Reality TV and the Decline of the Bachelor Franchise

Shifting gears, Heather and Dave critique the current state of reality TV, particularly the Bachelor franchise. They discuss the show's declining relevance, the challenges of maintaining audience interest, and the pitfalls of relying solely on drama to drive viewership.

Heather draws parallels between the Bachelor and other reality shows like Temptation Island and highlights how these programs have evolved (or devolved) in the post-pandemic landscape.

Notable Quote:

• Dave Neal [65:04]: "The show is so dead right now. It doesn't deliver the way it used to be."

They also touch upon the ethical implications of casting individuals primarily for their dramatic potential rather than depth or authenticity, questioning the long-term viability of such formats.

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4. Meghan Markle's Transition to Podcasting and Public Perception

The conversation then veers into Meghan Markle's new podcasting venture. Heather and Dave analyze public reactions, media portrayal, and the challenges of maintaining authenticity in a saturated content market.

Heather expresses skepticism about the genuine intent behind high-profile figures entering podcasting, suggesting that performance often trumps authenticity in such endeavors.

Notable Quote:

• Heather McDonald [77:06]: "They hired her because it's an easier job to go down the street and do some little cute cooking things than to learn the lines for Grey's Anatomy."

Dave concurs, noting that the shift from acting to podcasting can be seen as a strategic move to capitalize on existing fame with less effort compared to demanding acting roles.

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5. The Impact of Social Media and Audience Engagement

Throughout the episode, Heather and Dave emphasize the power of social media in shaping narratives and influencing public opinion. They discuss how creators and influencers navigate the delicate balance between maintaining an authentic voice and catering to audience expectations.

They also explore the phenomenon of parasocial relationships—where audiences develop one-sided connections with media personalities—and its implications for both creators and consumers.

Notable Quote:

• Heather McDonald [84:02]: "We have an American that stole the prince. I'm surprised they're not more loved. But maybe that's just like the pendulum swinging back."

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Conclusion

Heather McDonald and Dave Neal wrap up the episode by reflecting on the broader implications of their discussions. They highlight the necessity for critical thinking in the age of digital information, the importance of authenticity in public personas, and the evolving landscape of entertainment media.

The episode serves as a compelling analysis of the intersection between celebrity culture, media manipulation, and the ever-changing dynamics of reality television and podcasting.

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Key Takeaways:

• Verification Over Hearsay: The importance of factual verification in the wake of allegations to prevent defamation.
• Astroturfing Awareness: Recognizing and understanding fake grassroots movements to safeguard against public manipulation.
• Sustainability of Reality TV: The challenges faced by long-standing reality TV franchises in retaining relevance and audience engagement.
• Authenticity in New Media Ventures: Navigating the fine line between genuine expression and strategic content creation in podcasting and social media.

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For those who missed the episode, this summary encapsulates the essential discussions and insights shared by Heather McDonald and Dave Neal, providing a comprehensive overview of the intricate topics surrounding celebrity scandals and media dynamics in today's digital age.

Transcript

[Heather McDonald]

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[Dave Neal]

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[Heather McDonald]

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[Heather McDonald]

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[Dave Neal]

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[Heather McDonald]

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[Dave Neal]

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[Heather McDonald]

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[Dave Neal]

I was thinking the same thing.

[Heather McDonald]

Experience the magical story.

[Dave Neal]

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[Heather McDonald]

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[Dave Neal]

Snow White.

[Heather McDonald]

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[Dave Neal]

This episode of Juicy Scoop is brought to you by booking.com, booking. Yeah. So every time I use booking.com to find a place in the US I know they will have exactly what I'm looking for. They have a huge variety of options from hotels to vacation rentals. And I'm always able to find something that fits my specific needs. I found that booking.com has something for everyone. No matter who you are, booking.com helps you find the stay that's ridiculously right for you. Find exactly what you're booking for on booking.com booking. Yeah. Heather McDonald has got the Juicy Scoop.

[Heather McDonald]

When you're on the road, when you're.

[Dave Neal]

On the go, Juicy Scoop is the show to know.

[Heather McDonald]

She tops Hollywood tales for real life. Mr. Sigmund, serial data and serial Sister.

[Dave Neal]

You'll be addicted and addicted fast to the number one tabloid real life podcast.

[Heather McDonald]

Listen in. Listen up. Hannah McDonald, juicy scoop.

[Dave Neal]

Hello and welcome to Juicy Scoop. Yes. If you're watching this on YouTube and you better be, you better subscribe, you better like it, you better ring the bell, do all the stuff. We are in a new studio and I have a first time guest. Also a YouTube delight, Dave Neal. Flew all the way from Nashville to come beyond. Juicy Scoop, welcome.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah. This is exciting. I've got like a Bravo crush here. This is. You're it. You're like. You're the. You're the mother of Bravo.

[Dave Neal]

You're so sweet. I love it because people were dming me from different sources. Like or in comments on my Patreon, on dm, on my Juicy Scoop obsessed on Facebook, Instagram, saying, you gotta have Dave Neal on. He said some really nice things about you. Well, when I hear that, I have to stop everything.

[Heather McDonald]

Sure.

[Dave Neal]

Because I love a good compliment. So. Yeah. So then I watched it, and I was like, oh, my God, so nice. And you were just like, yeah, I want to be on the show. Put me on. I'm like, perfect.

[Heather McDonald]

Well, there was a lot of meat left on the bone from what Nick, your guest, was saying. And I've come from the Bachelor world as a commentator, so there's. There's always, like, that dissenting. It's like when I'm, like, in the political world after the State of the Union, the other political party will give their response. That's my video. It's always like, you're wrong about this. And.

[Dave Neal]

Right. So you did the entire. Almost the entire conversation about Blake Lively and Justin and all that on the show and. Yes. So then I went back on his show and I said, hey, there was some controversy, you know, about people not really liking your appearance on my show for some reason. And I said, I didn't have a problem with it. I didn't feel like I was being mansplained to or whatever. But it's always interesting when, like, an audience member or a listener sees it differently than me.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah. Well, I think people just. When he says, oh, I didn't. I don't understand all the backlash. Well, I'll show you the receipts. They were so flippantly like this. You know, they speak in these truths, and it's like you're sharing your opinion. But we have all of these receipts that show a completely different story, and audiences just want some authenticity there to, like, speak it.

[Dave Neal]

So, I mean, so I went on this. He is very still, very team Blake and Ryan. He believes that, you know, Justin is not a good guy, that, you know, there's no reason not to believe everything that Blake has said from the very start. And I was like, I feel like I was a pretty balanced person because when I first heard about. Put this up, when I first heard about the smear campaign from the New York Times article, like I've said before, pretty compelling. And I was happy that it was, like, being exposed. And then obviously, when Moore came out and he thought back and showed all the other things. So what I've always said, now, this is where I am now. I do believe that there could have been a smear campaign. I don't think that maybe it wasn't Maybe he was like Ronald Reagan with not knowing what's going on in the White House type of a thing. Maybe he didn't know what his team was doing and there was some of it happening. I think it's possible, but it'll be hard to prove. I don't think that he sexually harassed her in terms of sexual harassment, which is also a fine line. It's not assault. And I think he has every right to expose all of it and gain his reputation. That was just starting to build. And then he lost the Pac man movie, lost the agent, and get that reputation back so that he can have a great career for the next 40 years. He wasn't just gonna crawl away. So that's where I am with it. But I am also just kind of like, I am still fascinated and I still see all the sides of who Blake is and why. People kind of love to be like, we found a bitch and let's prove it is also kind of fascinating.

[Heather McDonald]

Well, I think as, like, as a comic, you're probably really good at reading people. You have to be right. You have split second decisions on folks. Justin, maybe. Maybe there's virtue signaling that happens, and someone like Nick sees that as like, oh, he's faking it. Like, Nick wants to own the position as the guy who gives dating advice online, as if that hasn't existed since the beginning of time. Right. And yeah, you're. You're allowed to change your opinion, but Nick wanted you to prove why Justin was innocent versus Blake has to prove why she was assaulted. And so he was asking you what evidence you had. And it's like, we're all here independently going, what evidence does she have? We were told this story. We believed it. We all know about astroturfing and how it's astroturfing. That's basically like, when it's a fake grassroots movement. So it's like if an insurance company will hire a bunch of people to tell you that so and so hates their. They hate their free insurance in Canada. That's. They literally pay to get that conversation out there. So you believe that, like, oh, they all hate their insurance. They have to wait too long for it or whatever. It's like astroturfing exists politically.

[Dave Neal]

Oh, that's interesting. I didn't really know that versus, like. But I understand what you mean.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Dave Neal]

Versus. I don't think I knew the term.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah. And it's exactly what it sounds like. It's fake grassroots. And it exists. And I'm always there to call that out because it's so easy how quickly people can be manipulated based on one story. A couple upvotes, a couple people commenting. And we were kind of astroturfed to believe that Blake was this person who had all of these claims against, you know, against him. And then when he provided the evidence, if you can't believe, if she kind of like, lies or stretches the truth about one of those claims, a jury is basically instructed to just throw it all out. And it's like Amber Heard. Because in Amber Heard's case, she lied about donating money to the aclu, which was a really big deal. She later said, I pledged to donate. She lied about it. And then if the old Latin saying is like falsis and uno falsus and omnibus, lie about one thing, lie about everything. So Blake doesn't have any credibility because she tried to make that water birth.

[Dave Neal]

A porn thing, you know, which remind people of that.

[Heather McDonald]

It was just a. Yeah, it was a video that was.

[Dave Neal]

So they were talking about how we're going to do the birth scene, and Justin had a video. Now, I heard. First I heard it was his wife. Then I heard it was his friend's wife. It was his friend's wife.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah. He's like the CEO of the company.

[Dave Neal]

Okay. And he was like, we could do.

[Heather McDonald]

Something like this beautiful spiritual shot from over the top water birth video. Nothing, like through the legs, nothing, you know, and like, yeah, here's the tone. And anyone's worked in film, you have the vision board. And she threw the pornography term out there. Like they were trying to just share porn with me without any elaborating that. That wasn't the truth whatsoever. So as Justin, like, systematically responded to each claim, the whole audience goes, wait a second, were we duped? You know, and the. The quarter billion dollar emoji. The emoji that. That was the upside down smiley face, which shows sarcasm was redacted from the text messages. That was Blake Lively's biggest claim, which was just inside saying, we can do this. You know, we got her, whatever. Oh, you got me. Like, in fact, she was just being sarcastic because.

[Dave Neal]

Wait, wait, wait, who. Who did the emojis?

[Heather McDonald]

It was Justin's PR People were basically texting back and forth saying, like, oh, this story's, you know, this bad story about Blake. Oh, that's the work of us, or whatever. When in fact, it was just organic people that had issues. And the.

[Dave Neal]

And the emoji was to say, obviously, we're joking.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Dave Neal]

And then that emoji was not part of the New York Times. Article to show.

[Heather McDonald]

And their claim is that when you export these through a subpoena, emoji goes away. And it's like, well, the emoji is kind of important, you know?

[Dave Neal]

Well, I mean, text messages are just, you know, such a huge thing now when they're like, we're gonna, you know, we wanna see your. Your correspondence, this and that. Hence why I'm much. I always am like, if I have an issue with somebody, I'm like, can we talk on the phone always? Now, of course, you could still record that, but it wouldn't be able to be used. And I don't know why so many people continue to. Like, I know as someone who's older, like, I've been told, like, if I call someone, they're like, that's really aggressive that you, like, called.

[Heather McDonald]

Well, I love it. I love in California, you have the time that you're driving, get all your calls in.

[Dave Neal]

Yeah. So I'm like. So I do talk also, because there's been times where I would do like, okay, and people would like, go, heather's a bitch. Like, she just wrote okay. And I'm like.

[Heather McDonald]

Or like the thumbs up emoji responding someone, it's like, I guess I'll go fuck myself. It's a big deal. That thumbs up is a. Or that that upside down emoji is a big deal.

[Dave Neal]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

And how did they get the text in the first place? How do you get a subpoena when there was no court number yet? So there's a lot of questions that they don't have answers to. And the New York Times hides behind, like, freedom of speech, freedom of press. But at what point did they not do their due diligence? They gave Justin Baldoni 10 hours to respond. I mean, imagine if you got at 10pm on a Friday to respond. They scrambled to respond by 11am the next day, December 21, you're baking cookies with your family. They find out. They uploaded the article anyway and the video to go along with it. So they weren't gonna share his story.

[Dave Neal]

And then we also just have to think about the first few weeks of his life just crumbling in front of him.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah. And it's like, you know, and William.

[Dave Neal]

Morris can say, oh, that's not why we dropped them because of, you know, Ryan and Blake. It never is. But throughout my life in this business, I have seen when someone has been let go from a TV show I've been on, all of a sudden, the agent of the host also then dumps that person.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah. Because they have Mouths to feed too. So like they're going to protect Ryan Reynolds at all cost.

[Dave Neal]

Even if the boss or even if the more powerful person didn't pick up the agent and say, you better drum dump my ex husband or my ex employee. Even if they didn't say, happens sometimes to please the bigger star.

[Heather McDonald]

Implicit decisions.

[Dave Neal]

Right. To please the bigger star. And so it has this effect that there isn't an email that says from Ryan to the agent you better dump. There isn't anything like that. And there might not even been a verbal phone call. It just is like separate. There's a conflict of interest here and you'd be better served, you know, someplace else.

[Heather McDonald]

Almost like don't even force, force Ryan Reynolds to make that call. Like do it beforehand.

[Dave Neal]

Right, Exactly.

[Heather McDonald]

Ari Emanuel is a billionaire. You don't, you know, you don't make 10 off of Justin Baldoni and become a billionaire. It's the action, it's the Deadpool money.

[Dave Neal]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

It's like that big international merchandising.

[Dave Neal]

Right.

[Heather McDonald]

And like that's the beast. And yeah, they, and they, and they're only going to hire people like Synergize people within the agency and all of the co stars. And Brandon Sklenar is with WME and I think he's a good actor and he's, he's in a lot of hit shows. 1923. So like the guy's on his own like trajectory to be like a Helmsworth style.

[Dave Neal]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

But like they're all, they're all tight lipped. Everyone's. And this is, that this is what I hate the most about Hollywood because there's a lot of things I love about the creativity and collaborations here. But everyone's tight lipped trying to protect themselves and it's like, who's going to have some balls to just say what's right versus like jump on the. What's safe to say and then back away.

[Dave Neal]

I mean I've seen it happen so many times in my own life just on very tiny scales.

[Heather McDonald]

But when you do speak out, everyone will then DM you afterwards and be like, it's so brave of you. But they don't have that and you'll be rewarded for it in the long term. Even if you, you know, even if he gets blackballed from wme, he's got, he'll have an audience if he can make a good movie. Like it'll, it'll make its way to the audience.

[Dave Neal]

Yeah. With, with Ryan Reynolds. I've said this. I'm like, because the Deadpool I don't know what the deal is. Are there, like, as many that can go on? Could there be, like, 12 more they can do?

[Heather McDonald]

I mean, it's.

[Dave Neal]

They can just do it forever, right?

[Heather McDonald]

And he's gonna make that 10% or whatever it is. The agency's gonna make such a killing off of all future deals and merchandise.

[Dave Neal]

And if there's another Deadpool, my kids aren't gonna be like, my college age sons aren't gonna be like, you know what, Mom? Absolutely not. Don't put that on Netflix. Because I don't think I like how he treated Justin Belden. The audience isn't the audience that cares.

[Heather McDonald]

It's like I say, it's like throwing a lawn chair off the deck of a cruise ship. This is an international audience. They're making a billion dollars for a video.

[Dave Neal]

He's not gonna be hurt by that.

[Heather McDonald]

Universal rides with the Deadpool. They're gonna like. Yeah, I mean, he might be to some extent. He'll take a PR hit. But I've always said, Blake Lively. Best thing she can do if she made it all up, give a great apology, go take some time off and come back with a nice art house movie. People will forgive you. Like, they will. People online will say, no way, Dave. That's not the case. Most people are pretty reasonable. They'll say, boy, whatever you got caught up in.

[Dave Neal]

But what could she say? Like, I think she. The only thing she could say at this point is, you know, for the sake of my mental health as being a mother of four, I want this chapter to end, and I want Justin to go on and be successful, and I want to put this movie and everything behind us. And therefore, I am redact. What do you call it?

[Heather McDonald]

Redacting. Yeah. But I don't think that's enough for him.

[Dave Neal]

I don't think that's enough either. So I don't.

[Heather McDonald]

She has to say, I'll tell you. I'll give her the number.

[Dave Neal]

Tell me what she has to say.

[Heather McDonald]

She has to say, I got it wrong. I read his. I read it wrong. I felt triggered by this person who was of a lower level than me. Like, she has to go full out. He's lower level. He doesn't have as much career, like, knowledge about the experience. And here he is directing scenes, telling me what to do. I read it wrong. I got triggered. It brought up a lot of bad. I see my husband and my best friend as billionaires leading their lives, and I feel like I'm, you know, working at a pay cut on a Smaller film. So, like, that's on me. She has to make it all about her and say I read it wrong. And when I looked. When I looked at it from a new light, I realized he was just doing his job. And it's a difficult. And put. Make it. Make it about. Oh, it's a difficult position that he's directing himself in a sexually charged scene. And now I realize. I realize now, like, she has to come to these realizations.

[Dave Neal]

I mean, I also think she's in a marriage where they have. I do think they'll stay together forever. If they were to break up, it would have happened by now and she would have used that. Like, I'm separated from Ryan. Ryan is the one that, like, got weirdly jealous. And to placate him, I kind of exaggerated or I again misinterpreted something and it got out of hand. I never wanted to file this thing. I don't think that's going to happen. That would have had to have happened like a month ago.

[Heather McDonald]

It would have been very helpful if this happened.

[Dave Neal]

Yeah, a month or two, but it's not going to. And I think they really are like two peas in a pod. I think they are, like, completely the same kind of type of person, girl, you know, girl, boy, version of each other. And so. Yeah, but I don't know how it's. I don't know how it's gonna go away at this point. Because you're right now why would I go, okay, now I love Honey Love. Some of the things I love about it, besides making me look better in everything I put on when I've got Honey Love under it, is that Honey Love is an independent film female founded brand. All HoneyLove products are intelligently designed by women who actually wear them, including founder Betsy, who is highly involved in the development of each product. HoneyLove recently launched the Cross Flex bra. I actually am wearing it right now. It is designed to support you all day, in and out of your workout routine. Wear it during your workday and your workout. And I'm telling you, it is so comfortable and looks so good, you'll forget you're even wearing it. Of course, you know, I love their shapewear, their G string that there's literally like this just sucks you in the middle. Nobody knows I'm wearing it. And it's so comfortable. I absolutely love it. So treat yourself to the best bras and shapewear on the market. Save 20% off [e-mail] Juicy use our exclusive link to get 20% off honeylove.com Jucy to find your perfect fit. After you purchase, they ask you where you heard about them. Please support Juicy Scoop and tell them I sent you. Elevate your comfort, elevate your style with Honeylove. Guys, you know I am loving Lumi. It is the all over body deodorant that you didn't know you needed, but you definitely did. Especially with spring and summer on the horizon. I mean this gets in those places that you sweat that you don't want to. Not just the armpits. I'm talking under boob, thigh fold, belly buttons, butt cracks, vulvas and feet. It is the number one whole body deodorant formula and it's clinically proven to block odor all day and control odor up to 72 hours. I absolutely love their spray deodorant. It's aluminum free and ideal for hard to reach places. Like I said, like under the boobs down there. Lumi starter pack is perfect for new customers. It comes with a solid stick deodorant cream tube deodorant. Two free products of your choice like a mini body wash and deodorant wipes and free shipping. And as a special offer for our Juicy Scoop listeners, new customers get 15% off all Lumi products with our exclusive code. And if you combine the 15% off with the already discounted starter pack, that equals over 40% off their starter pack. Use code Juicy for 15 off your first purchase at lumideodorant.com that's code juicy-o R-A-N-T.com Please support Juicy Scoop and tell them I sent you smell fresher, stay drier and boost your confidence from head to toe with Lumi.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah. And they say, they say like you mature at the level of that where you received your fame. And you know when you do comedy you spend years grinding and like learning a lot and losing your ego and all of that.

[Dave Neal]

Let's know a little bit about you. But you're a stand up.

[Heather McDonald]

Yep.

[Dave Neal]

You guys were here. You have a young wife and baby.

[Heather McDonald]

Yep.

[Dave Neal]

And then you started your channel how long ago?

[Heather McDonald]

I've run my YouTube channel for a very long time, but it started becoming my full time job during the pandemic.

[Dave Neal]

Oh, okay.

[Heather McDonald]

And I started making daily videos which turned into daily podcasts. Now twice daily podcasts.

[Dave Neal]

So now you do stay and you do stand up still.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Dave Neal]

Okay, cool. So go on.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah, so. So you just, you, you grind it out and you learn what it's like to be sort of in the Background. Like, I worked as an extra on Gossip Girl and Jane the Virgin. You learn what it's like to make 100 bucks a day freezing your ass off in the winter in New York.

[Dave Neal]

And did you have any firsthand knowledge of how they were perceived as stars?

[Heather McDonald]

Well, my wife worked as a stand in on the show, too. And before we even met, we all kind of worked in the same ecosystem in New York, and we both had the same vibe, which is, she looks unhappy. She looked unhappy back then. Yeah. And, you know, you give grace and you go, well, maybe she's just trying to memorize her lines. But then everybody's got a story about how they were treated. They were, like, early 20s, but treated as, like, teens. They kind of played into that rich teen character where the production assistants had to just get off. They would hand out, like, these video games for them to play. Give us your video games back. You're going to set. You know how it is with first team. Like, we'd like to invite you to set. Once you get started. Treated. Once you get treated with those white gloves, you start to, like, think that you've earned it. And I just see.

[Dave Neal]

Because it came so easily.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah. And she. And as she says, she's like, I don't. I want to be more than an actor. And it's like, I get it. Once you've acted a little bit, you don't get the joy out of just reading somebody's lines. Everyone wants to become a director and have creative control.

[Dave Neal]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

And like, that's what. Comedy's great. You would never recite a bit from somebody else, even if it was the best bit in the world, is that you want that ownership over it. And so she. Whatever dopamine you might get from the quick paychecks of being a TV celeb, that goes away quickly. And it's like filling up that dopamine with the next thing. And she sees Taylor and Ryan as these monoliths that have done all these great things. And I can understand that being this character who's just, like, in that movie is not all that challenging for her. But it doesn't give you the right to have that kind of collateral damage.

[Dave Neal]

It's interesting because, yeah, the first role that she played was like, a bitchy, entitled girl, privileged girl. And it was so believable, also in a simple favor. Very believable. I mean, I really liked that movie. And then also, he always played like a kind of a cocky dick. And so then they get together, and I also think he thinks he's funnier than he is. And, you know, they had some success with some clever tweets when no one else was tweeting. And I think that she also thinks she's really funny and she's really not.

[Heather McDonald]

Like, his character is so great because he's like, comedy adjacent, straight man. Right. Yeah. And by that I mean who he played on that SNL when he was like, why, what have you heard? That's perfectly his character, like right in the zone. And she doesn't pull off comedy outside of what probably her like, inner circle. She's probably like, really funny. She in like a mean girl way. But when you take that brunch mimosa mean girl funniness and do it in front of like on a panel where you're making fun of Leighton Meester for like, your mom went to prison, it's.

[Dave Neal]

Like, that's when you were born in a cage. Yeah, that's where I'm like, yeah, you think that it's funny and you're not thinking it through, that this could be extremely hurtful, painful. I mean, maybe, you know, maybe.

[Heather McDonald]

And I'm sure she gets laughs.

[Dave Neal]

I just got. I just got how she's gonna get out of this.

[Heather McDonald]

What's that?

[Dave Neal]

She's gonna say, I had a late in life diagnosis and I'm on the spectrum.

[Heather McDonald]

Go for it.

[Dave Neal]

And I. And I misunderstand, and I misunderstand social cues and I misunderstood his social cues for something else.

[Heather McDonald]

Well, I mentioned postpartum anxiety, but it's like. And people say, well, she was like this before, sure. But this is the boiling point. This is the flu too close to the sun. Whether it's spectrum or, or some sort of anxiety, the mind ruminating can do crazy things. We're giving her a million outs that are plausible. The truth is most people aren't psychopaths. Most people don't inflict damage with no feeling whatsoever. It's more of an anxiety and maybe a sociopathy. But it, but it's like she probably thought she was in the right.

[Dave Neal]

Also, if your spouse is jealous and you know, his, you know, his triggers, whatever, I think then she may have been like, oh, my God, I am not flirting with him. In fact, he's creeping me the fuck out. And then said things are exaggerated. And then he clocked all that and did the deadpool thing and it pissed him off. And then when they believed that there was an active campaign because she's waking up at three in the morning crying about another TikTok and another video that makes her look like an asshole. And then they go look into it and he's like, f this guy. He doesn't even know. And in the moment, she might have felt like, oh, my hero, Ryan. And not really sitting down and really thinking it through and how the public would possibly consume it or not.

[Heather McDonald]

Well, because, yeah, he knows the equity he has in the leverage that can go on behind doors. And that's what that initial complaint was. Don't do all of these things. They got Baldoni, they got him by the balls to say, like, we're not going to come back to set unless you agree to these things. Even though they agree.

[Dave Neal]

That letter there was the letter before when they took the break for the strike, I guess, and they. They had art. So. So that is where it does give her some legitimacy. Like, she did have complaints. Right.

[Heather McDonald]

But those complaints were. Were not. There was no valid complaint. Like, they hadn't even done these intimacy scenes yet. So the complaints were kind of like signed under duress in protest by them. Because they were saying, like, we have to agree to these. Like, of course we wouldn't do these things.

[Dave Neal]

The producers, you mean? Yeah, yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

And so when they, when they then took that complaint, that was. That was like a big deal to have that and force them to kind of acquiesce and give her all of this control. And then I don't think any of that was supposed to come public. That was just leverage. And then when it does go public, it's like two to. It just blew up. And then they received so much backlash, obviously, because Baldoni had the receipts to defend himself.

[Dave Neal]

And one of your videos that you did, you got a letter from somebody. How did you find the letter of someone that actually worked on this is Us not Wait, it ends with us.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah. Those were all just anonymous things posted online. But they did go. There were things posted months before the smear campaign started.

[Dave Neal]

Right. That was it.

[Heather McDonald]

And by the way, I see the smear. I see what she sees as a smear campaign. I'm like, relaying it as like Jiu Jitsu. He's no, he knows what she can do to him. So he's getting this crisis management ready. That's Jiu Jitsu. It's self defense. Right. He's not. He's not learning this Jiu Jitsu in order to attack her. He's just trying to be ready.

[Dave Neal]

So you think he got the team but never did anything with it.

[Heather McDonald]

He knew he was going to get, like, me too'd and he knew what was going to happen after the Premiere in one way or another. He was prepared that this could happen.

[Dave Neal]

Okay.

[Heather McDonald]

Because I. And again, I think assuming that. Assuming that she never provides any credible examples of harassment, I think that he knew she had this over his head, and at some point, she's in. Colleen Hoover can try to get rights to the film. I mean, the film made a quarter billion dollars the second. Yeah. So, like, if there's a morality clause.

[Dave Neal]

Does he still have rights to the second one?

[Heather McDonald]

I believe so.

[Dave Neal]

Okay. And so the morality clause would have been able. If this had gone through, and he would have crumbled and walked away then he would have walked away from the rights to the second, and then they could have done something with it, and she could have played the part.

[Heather McDonald]

And I've been so generous. All I've said, Blake Lively needs to convince me, is a text message to her agent, to Ryan, to anybody I know. If my wife's at work and the thermostat set too cold, I hear about it, right? You go, oh, it's fucking freezing in here. The lady. You hear about it in the spot. Find me a timestamp from that window of when this would have happened. You know, the HR complaint would be a nail in the coffin, but find some piece of evidence that wasn't afterwards.

[Dave Neal]

Well, I mean, the other thing is, when things like that are happening, it's uncomfortable, and you don't always share it in the moment, and you maybe don't want to share it with your husband at that time, because friend, but agent.

[Heather McDonald]

Like your agent, your SAG rep.

[Dave Neal]

But I also think in saying that, which will be interesting, is. Was she saying it to the Jenny Slate who played, you know, the best friend? Was she saying it to Isabella? But was she also saying it to plant the seeds and kind of bitch about the boss? You know what I mean? And because the young girl, Isabella, who played her, she said she spent the night, she hung out with her. There's videos that people have done in which she clearly has lent her earrings to wear on the red carpet of hers and kind of like marking her like, you're my little, you know, little sister, niece, whatever. And you're not. You know, I've been so wonderful to you. You'll never not go against me. That's why I'm like, I do think it needs to be a trial.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Dave Neal]

I mean, because I do think we need to put all these people on the stand, including Taylor, like Taylor Swift. I think we do. I think we need to have these people deposed, and they're all, like, being Quiet and not saying anything because they don't want to be dragged into this thing.

[Heather McDonald]

They all, for the most part, commented. Brandon Sklinara did people commented before Justin's response, saying what? Basically in support of Blake, right? And then since Justin's response, silence is deafening. If it was bullshit, like, no, not one person has been like, hey, this is. Yeah, this is more nuanced than we thought, you know? And I. And it is like a game of chicken where they cut the brakes, right? The brakes are cut because they're going full speed and it's a game of chicken and who's going to flinch? And Brian Friedman, Baldoni's attorney, is like, we're not settling this one unless you get one of those insane apologies. And most lawyers that know these things go in, 99% has to settle. Like, it has to settle. But, like, who's going to flinch?

[Dave Neal]

Right?

[Heather McDonald]

That's why.

[Dave Neal]

And it's like, what would the settlement be for? I mean, it's not going to just be for 100 grand. It would have to be for millions.

[Heather McDonald]

I've heard 100 million. I've heard 50 to 100 million, which.

[Dave Neal]

They have, is what Blake and Ryan.

[Heather McDonald]

Would have to offer along with a real apology. And it would have to be negotiated. Like, this has to be the. Not like, no. Retracting, like, not like, well, no, it has to be like, hey, I got it wrong.

[Dave Neal]

I don't think that you can convince these two with their personality type to.

[Heather McDonald]

Do it, which makes it crazy.

[Dave Neal]

I think it will go all the way. I really do.

[Heather McDonald]

I hope so for the sake of. I mean, I hate to say it from, like, the gladiator perspective, but, like, it's. It's interesting. And I've said this time and again, and this. These types of conversations can really annoy the pitchfork, like, mob in some cases where they're like, no. Like, go effort. It's like, no. If she does apologize, people do. I mean, look at some of the politicians that have done some crazy shit and apologize. Like Anthony Weiners. Like, still in this world, like, there's crazy, like, apologize. Go away to some treatment thing. Come back in a couple of years. Like I said, knock it out of the park with a. With a period piece movie. Go play a different character and, like, you'll be redeemed in one way or another. Audiences will like the comeback. But you have to admit wrong. You have to stop digging to find your bottom.

[Dave Neal]

Right? Exactly. And then in this scene, you know, someone said, look, she's biting his bottom lip. And then I was like, oh, that's kind of interesting too, because she had done that one text to him, like always without teeth. I'm like, is she referring to that issue? Referring to and I'll blow you. Like, what was that?

[Heather McDonald]

And they're gonna. And this is. And if it does go to trial, you'll be analyzing these moments and there's going to be the. Before the seat. Like, you know, they roll before the yell action. And then afterwards, audio.

[Dave Neal]

Yeah, yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

And then he goes, cut. And then he goes and does his thing. But he's like, she, she had claimed that, oh, he was speaking to me out of character. And you know, when you know how it works as like actor, director, we've all. If you've ever. I've done make out scenes.

[Dave Neal]

You did sexy scenes with Ben Affleck at 21. Like, you've done all these things. You were like, no, I'm good. Not meeting the intimacy coordinator before. And it's all those things. And yeah, it's all kind of circumstantial, but it's not. What is the crime? Like, what is the lawsuit? Like, it's just so.

[Heather McDonald]

And look, I've been on set pre, MeToo and post, and it has been a big change where they block off video vill and for the people that don't know the difference, like pre meet Video Village. Yeah, Video Village is where they'll have like three or four camp the monitors of what's being shot and the directors around them. But what would happen pre, me too, is if there's a nude scene, you got the teamsters are showing up, the crafty guys walking around, all of a sudden the 90% male audience in the crew is just like around set, lurking, lurking, maybe with their own camera. Like, all that stuff's happening now. Now they have the rules where they put up the drapes and they block it off. And I've also been in, in, in done intimacy scenes where I'm standing in for like someone where there is violence in the scene. And if you don't properly alert everyone to what's going on. Yeah, people do get like abused or, or triggered. I mean, it's dark, you're reenacting monstrous things.

[Dave Neal]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

And you don't have like necessarily safe words. But now, now with intimacy coordinators, they try to get everyone on board, but this is an instance to show. Well, you got to get a little bit more precise. And, and, but like, Justin did the right thing. He's got the audio, the video. I mean, how many times when there's a he said, she said, do you have three cameras rolling? So I don't think that benefits her. She, she, she threw the first punch publicly and it was a solid punch. But because he's got backing and money, you know, with Saroitz, his billionaire backer, he's able to fight a fair fight. And that's all it is, is a fair fight at this point.

[Dave Neal]

Right.

[Heather McDonald]

You know, she tries to make it seem like this is workplace issues. She was in the power position. She made 3 million where they were. They were all making 10% of what she was making. She was the one who could name the negotiations and be in charge. And now it's just a fair fight and audiences don't buy her side. And that's fair. Like, I think that's a fair position to be in.

[Dave Neal]

Very fascinating. This episode of Juicy Scoop is brought to you by booking.com booking. Yeah, so every time I use booking.com to find a place in the US I know they will have exactly what I'm looking for. They have a huge variety of options from hotels to vacation rentals. And I'm always able to find something that fits my specific needs. I found that booking.com has something for everyone. So right now I am planning a sorority sister get together girls weekend. And we've got girls coming from all parts of the country and we want a lot of foodie places. We want to walk to the cute coffee shop, we want a spa. And I found that on booking.com it makes it so easy. Everyone's so excited to go on this trip and of course, it's just the best. No matter who you are, Booking.com helps you find the stay that's ridiculously right for you. Find exactly what you're booking for on booking.com booking. Yeah, I know you guys love my dog Raven. She really is the cutest. And now she's even happier because she is loving Spot and Tango dog food. After trying many foods, Raven was a little skeptical. But since switching, nothing has made a difference. Like Spot and Tango. Spot and Tango is a personalized dog food subscription that delivers high quality, ready to serve meals, snacks and supplements right to your door. So no more last minute pet store runs. I used to hate feeding Raven just the mystery kibble filled with processed meals and fillers because I knew that she was better than that. And now I feel great because with Spot and Tango, I finally know exactly what is in her bowl. Fresh human grade ingredients like high quality protein and veggies. No fillers, no junk, just real food for dogs. She absolutely loves it. There's really a pep in her four little steps. I'm so happ. I feel so much better feeding her. Spot and Tango. And right now, Spot and Tango is offering an exclusive deal for our Juicy Scoopers. For a limited time, go to spotandtango.com juicy scoop and use code juicy scoop to get 50% off your first order. That's spotandtango.com juicy Scoop code juicy scoop to get 50% OFF your first order. Spotandtango.com juicy scoop code juicy Scoop this episode of Juicy Scoop is sponsored by zocdoc. When was the last time you need to go to a doctor but you brushed it off? You're like, oh, I'm too busy. Oh, it'll heal on its own. I don't need help. But also, I don't know which doctor to go to. Well, I think we've all been there. Booking a doctor appointment can just feel daunting. But thanks to ZocDoc, there's no reason to delay. They make it so easy to find and book a doctor who's right for you. ZocDoc is a free app and website where you can search and compare high quality in network doctors and click to instantly book an appointment. Once you find the right doctor, you can see their actual appointment openings. Choose a time slot that works for you and click to instantly book a visit. How easy is that? One of my favorite things about it is that appointments can be made through Zocdoc, which happens so fast they are typically within just 24 to 72 hours of booking. You can even score a same day appointment. Stop putting off those doctor appointments and go to zocdoc.com sushi and find and instantly book a top rated Doctor today. That's z o c-o c.com juicy zocdoc.com juicy okay, I also want to talk about this. This was Clayton. He was the Bachelor. And there was a crazy story about a woman who he dated who claimed to be pregnant. And you have a big story about it. So tell me, why don't you tell the story? So, yeah, because some people will remember hearing about the story. Remember Clayton, he was on the Bachelor probably, what, like eight years ago?

[Heather McDonald]

Not even. No post pandemic. Oh, okay, yeah, yeah, several years ago. But right at, right at the fall of like influencer culture. Like, didn't get that Matt James bump. Like, he, he was kind of plucked from obscurity. He was like, not a top finisher. And people are like, you know, he was on the Show. And afterwards he had several fake accusations about him, you know, where he had to prove that he wasn't even in the same time zone as the person who accused him of stuff like standard tick tock. Stuff like, oh, I banged the Bachelor last night when he was dating Susie and she's like a wedding videographer. So she's at a wedding, finding out he's cheating on her. He uses, like, his GPS from his Fitbit to prove he was in Phoenix when the accusation was in New York. So.

[Dave Neal]

And these are just. These are just girls making up lies for fun.

[Heather McDonald]

Double down on it. And he was like, don't make me get police involved. Like, so he had already had these accusations. So when this new one comes out, they used too much of her information in the article that it was easy to identify her. They called her a Scottsdale based podcaster who had her own TEDx talk. They were immediately, immediately able to find out it was this lady named Laura Owens. So her story was that he was the father for unborn twins. So I cover Bachelor every day. This story wasn't big enough for, like, the Daily Mail. Like, I mean, but it was in the Sun. It was like a. Which isn't necessarily credible. So they ran with her story. She immediately gets exposed online because the story didn't sound right. And Clayton's response was, hey, we only had a blowjob. And so, you know, they start calling the turkey baster babies.

[Dave Neal]

And so. Wait, wait. Cause the story I remember is, so bachelor ends. He goes to Scottsdale. He becomes what everybody becomes when you're an influencer at a former reality star. A realtor.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Dave Neal]

And so he's a realtor, and he is getting some clients and people calling because they're like, he's hot. He's famous. If I'm gonna look for a house, I might as well look with him.

[Heather McDonald]

Exactly right. Which no one, no reasonable person would put their hands of their most valuable, their life savings with someone who just got the real estate license two weeks earlier. So he literally just gets his real estate license. Then they hook up.

[Dave Neal]

So then she goes, she calls for him to show her houses.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Dave Neal]

And claims like, oh, I've got. I want to actually do like a duplex and something. I have all this money, whatever. And he's trying to. He's like, oh, good, I kind of could have my first sale, please. My broker, they. And then they go out and it leads to a BJ. Right?

[Heather McDonald]

Two BJ's in one night.

[Dave Neal]

Right.

[Heather McDonald]

One night. And maybe the next morning or Something.

[Dave Neal]

Okay. But no, he claims no penetration.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah, not even close. So once he shares this story, people go, whoa. In the initial thing in the. In the. The. The sun was how she claimed she called Scottsdale police because she was afraid for the safety of her unborn babies. Very chat. GPT soap opera.

[Dave Neal]

Okay, so then. So it ends and he breaks up with her.

[Heather McDonald]

He tells her like, hey, we can't be doing this. And he said. He said her face changed. Which, by the way, I feel like in some ways could be the same thing with Blake. Like, getting, like, absolutely triggered by denial. And it can. And it just. And he said her face changed. And then a few weeks later, he got notification from her that she was pregnant. And she did test positive on a pregnancy test. Very faint. Positive.

[Dave Neal]

And so people sent that to him.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah. And so I start covering this. As the story comes out, I immediately get. Get met with, hey, you better cover this fair. I'm gonna sue you.

[Dave Neal]

By her.

[Heather McDonald]

By her. And then we go, all right, we'll cover it fair. But now that it's getting pub publicity because people found out who she was, this other lady named Ashley I caught. She's just like, badass. She's. She finds Clayton and says, hey, Laura did this to my now husband or my partner. So. So they are able to link up and find out that two years previously, she said she was pregnant with twins with this other guy, whom she also got restraining orders against after that. We're covering this. Oh, my gosh. And then Laura Owens is emailing me. That's all private information. I'm going to sue you. And like you don't know, I had to find out that that's not private. And. And then we find out Mike Maracini from 2016, she claimed she was pregnant with just some random guy, but it's just this all star of a guy. He's like. He's now just not famous. Not famous. He's just like a tech bro in San Francisco.

[Dave Neal]

Okay.

[Heather McDonald]

And she claimed all these crazy things about him, and she made a TedX talk where she was a victim of DV because of him. And we don't. We start piecing this all together. She ends up suing me for harassment. She calls.

[Dave Neal]

She did file a lawsuit.

[Heather McDonald]

She filed an injunction against harassment, which she later dropped hours before we were supposed to be in court with the agreement that I wouldn't solicit anyone to hurt her. And then two hours later, where did.

[Dave Neal]

You have to go to court for it?

[Heather McDonald]

It would have been the LA court, but I at this point, I had moved to Texas, to Tennessee. So I was negotiating with my attorney to basically like I was ready to show up. I had my refundable tickets ready to go, and then she backed out last minute.

[Dave Neal]

So did you have to spend money on an attorney?

[Heather McDonald]

I spent $10,000. But here's what's, here's what's interesting. And this is why the audience is like the main character here. As Clayton was going through his trial, we found out that it was being live streamed. Family court live streamed. Like little video, maybe it was.

[Dave Neal]

So now they're in court where he's proving I am not the father.

[Heather McDonald]

He's trying to prove he's not the father.

[Dave Neal]

And are there real babies around?

[Heather McDonald]

She's. She's pregnant. So she shows up to court with.

[Dave Neal]

A bump, but it's a fake bump.

[Heather McDonald]

So yes. And she's doing a tele conference. So she's showing up. She's afraid to go in person. So she's literally there standing up on like a standing desk for like an hour and a half, hearing like a zoom, rubbing her belly. And there's video of her like moving the belly. And you know, we're measuring.

[Dave Neal]

Is it as good? Is the same one that Beyonce had? Remember Beyonce's belly? First child, it was deflated.

[Heather McDonald]

This was robust. And we were measuring funnel height. You had, you had, you had nurses like trying to measure and look and she, she's. It's wild, right? So we're watching this play out. Clayton, they, they had to delay. They couldn't get through the hearing because it was like so much information. So they were like, we have to come back in a week. And I, and I text him and I go, dude, I. We watched that. That was insane. And he's like, wait, you were in there? He didn't know it was being live streamed. Screamed. So he was defending himself and doing a good job for a non lawyer. But she, they were objecting to things. He didn't have the proper sort of way to communicate in his defense.

[Dave Neal]

Right.

[Heather McDonald]

I was like, dude, we got to help you. Like, let us get some money together. So we did a GoFundMe, raised 10 grand like that for him.

[Dave Neal]

Really?

[Heather McDonald]

We hired Greg Woodnick, the attorney that represented the previous victim, Greg Gillespie. Now Greg.

[Dave Neal]

Previous victim.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah. So Greg Woodnick knew everything about her already because he represented a client who had the same allegations, but it wasn't a public, like a famous person. So the case didn't really go anywhere. Greg Woodnick, the attorney, was accused of conspiring to R word her in an alley. She emailed the attorney back when it was Greg Gillespie going to trial. She emailed the judge, excuse me, saying, I fear that he's trying to do this. And she accused the lawyer of these crazy things. He had never met her in person before. And the judge said, you cannot do this. Like, you have to do this through the court system. So the judge made that email public. So you can see the emails of her going, you know, full, like, nuke on these people. She did the same thing to me. She called the FBI on me, accusing me of revenge porn. I'd never seen a naked photo of her. I never shared any. I've only shared her belly bump that she tried to share with people. Basically, she claims I'm no longer pregnant. So they were like, well, the paternity case is moot. That's done. But we have to argue over who's going to pay the bill. So they still take it to trial, and she gets subpoenaed. Eight different medical people she was supposed to have seen, they all turn, turn up. No one saw her. The only medical evidence she has was the HCG test she sent me. And I didn't know what it meant at the time because I was in the Maldives on my baby moon. But I go through the documents. Her public HCG test is a 102, which is like, day two of being pregnant. The HCG test she sent me was 143,000, and that's the level of hormone that's in your body, which means you're pregnant. So she doctored it, and she later admitted to this in her deposition. She doctored it to try to get me off of her back, but she says I was still pregnant. So no one knows how she tested positive for pregnancy other than, you know, you could have. She could have driven to Mexico or bought horse fertility drugs. Who the hell knows? But she. She knew she could pee on a stick and test positive with multiple of these men, even though she only gave a couple blowjobs. So Mike Maracini, the final. The final nail in the coffin is her attorneys claiming he's a liar. Now, he's been harassed, accused of all of these things for years. He was, like, just accused of being this monster of a guy with no resolution. But now, because there's light on the story, because of Clayton, Mike goes, you know what? He was like, I actually have text messages from her I forgot I had. And we're like, what? He's like, yeah, I got this old laptop, and we're like, oh, my Gosh. And her lawyer got her to do an affidavit, you know, which is like a signed statement saying, I never faked these things. And he goes, no, you said you had ovarian cancer. So we knew, like, we had to do this the right way. So we raised another five grand, hired a forensic expert, you know, a guy that they bring to trial for, like, government forensics. He was in the military. And I was like, don't even open your laptop.

[Dave Neal]

Now, are you doing this all, or are you talking to Clayton every day?

[Heather McDonald]

I communicated with him and with the other victims, but this is, like, driven by the audience. Like, they're able to find the needle in the haystack. I could never.

[Dave Neal]

I mean, he must be so incredibly grateful to you.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah. In the whole community. And so we get the laptop, and Mike's like, I'm afraid to open this laptop. It's connected to my icloud. Maybe it all goes away. And I was like, yeah. So he gets it to the forensic guy, and they find, like, 4,000 pages. They verify every text message. She faked ovarian cancer. She faked the doctors who were writing her letters claiming she had ovarian cancer. One of the letters from the doctor, and they were real doctors, but she faked it all. One of the letters was like, we think that in order to recover from this surgery, your boyfriend should spend time with you. Like, those types of things. Batshit. But in the moment when you're panicked, you're. You're like. Your rational brain shuts off. So in the moment, he's. This is, like, insane. She also faked being an agent. Like a lit agent. She faked her. Her father's agent, this guy, like, I don't know, David. I don't remember his name, but it was a Jewish guy. And she said, you know, she said, there's a podcast. They want us to do a radio show. They want me and you to do Lauren, Laura, and Mike. That's going to pay you $400,000 a year. So she, like, was coercing these men to, like, stick around with contracts. So she went from radio contract to. To real estate contract. So when it comes to Clayton, he tried to run away from her, and then she kind of, like, complained to the real estate board because he didn't.

[Dave Neal]

That's right.

[Heather McDonald]

He didn't submit an offer she wanted because technically he was still her agent. And he's like, just get her away from me. I've done this job for three weeks, right? He tells his boss, and they're like, it's just a fantastic story.

[Dave Neal]

So how did it finally end?

[Heather McDonald]

She lost and owes him $150,000. Just a court fees, and she's now filing an appeal. Her attorneys had, like, probably over five or six bar complaints against him, including one from the judge, because the attorney started talking mad about the judge and tried, and we were all there. Like, I was In Arizona, about 100 people showed up. I reported live from it. Like, we followed this thing to the end because this dude is like, he messed. He messed with the wrong. Like, he really did mess with the wrong people. Because, like, the bandwidth in today's world is like, I will continue to make content and monetize this and fund my innocence along with these other men as long as I need to. And, you know, some people in the bachelor world, oh, he's being obsessive. But, like, I. I had the threats of these crazy things against me, so I had to prove without a shadow of doubt that I'm. I'm doing, like, real journalistic work here, right when no one else would. And this is the problem in, like, today's world is there is no small media. There's no, like, local newspaper, you know, so, like, people get away with things until it's too big. And she just slid under the radar. And I always say, like, the irony is, like, she flew too close to the sun, which is hilarious because it was in an article in the sun, but it was like, she flew too close to the sun. She. She outpunted it. She just. She went too far. It got some publicity, and folks like me and my audience stopped it.

[Dave Neal]

It's. It's fascinating. I'm so fascinated. I mean, people would send, you know, sent me this story when it was happening and everything, and I was like, oh, my God, I agree with you. This should be a documentary if it's not already in the words.

[Heather McDonald]

They're fighting over it.

[Dave Neal]

And.

[Heather McDonald]

But she's still going to sue me for emotional. She won. She sued Greg Gillespie for emotional distress. Right? Now she's lost, but didn't win. No, but, like, it still. It still cost him a lot of money. And. And I'm. I'm like, whatever. I'll. I'll. I'll pay in two seconds to defend myself. But, like, she's lost a bunch of weight, so she's. She lost the. The emotional distress suit to Greg Gillespie because she didn't have any, like, receipts of. Of why she was distressed because of him. It was all, like, loosely connected. So now she learns and evolves her lawsuits so the most recent thing is her father has, like, Parkinson's. And by the way, her sister had a baby the previous year, so she stole ultrasounds from her sister. She sent us video of her father touching her belly, which we were able to find out it was her sister's belly, like, because we were like, match moles. You know what I mean? Like the Internet.

[Dave Neal]

Oh, my God.

[Heather McDonald]

She sent me a video of her dad in the hospital rubbing her pregnant belly. But when you look at it on a desktop, the video shows, like, from the nose down, not the chin down. So we were able to see that it was her sister. And, like, ever since I kind of caught her on all this, she just, like, still plays victim, but have you.

[Dave Neal]

Ever thought about just filing a lawsuit against her for emotional distress? Of all the shit she's put you through, and. And then go straight, like, stress her out?

[Heather McDonald]

Well, the truth is. The truth is the victory. So I'm. I'm happy to just be on the right side, but it was. Taught me a lot about myself and my audience, and they're, like, with me for life. And that's why they're so loyal, because, yeah, they saw that, like, we were just trying to do our best. And she hassled me. She. She emailed all these other podcasters. That's why part of my beef with Nick Fael is he says, like, well, we covered the case. Clayton tried to get Nick to cover the case for months. He needed the help in October, and Nick covered it in January, like, when it was safe to cover it. So she was already sending everybody, like, like, basically cease and desist, saying, if you. And I've. And I have people have sent them to me, like, if you share this, I will sue you. And I was like, fuck you. Like, we're gonna share the truth here. How am I gonna let. And this is what you learn about, like, some aspects of reality tv. Everyone's in it from. For themselves. I come from, like, a sports world. Comedians back each other. I knew, like, if I really ended up getting sued, I could probably try to call on other comics to, like, who have bigger platforms to, like, help me out. But in the bachelor world, there were few, few creators that would cover it. My friend Caitlin Bristow had me on God bless her from off the Vine.

[Dave Neal]

Yes.

[Heather McDonald]

And share her audience. Like, so certain people have that justice mindset. But coming from Greek life, right, where, like, people help each other. Unions sag. Like, you help each other. In this instance, it's everyone else on the self. Almost nobody wanted to defend Clayton even though they, they knew the truth. And like I was like, I'm sorry. I used whatever sort of political like equity I had within my community and audience to try to pressure people to cover it. Got me in some trouble because like people are like man, you, we don't need to cover his, we don't need to fix his mess. But I'm like, this is wrong. Like we're watching something happen that's just wrong. And the audience got that even though they're.

[Dave Neal]

So what is Clayton doing now?

[Heather McDonald]

I think he's got, he's got a podcast and he does like fitness. Like he's a real strong guy who's like, you know, played, played pro briefly. So like he does a lot of fitness stuff and I think he's just trying to get his story told. There is some things in the works, I'll tell you afterwards. But like that will lead to documentaries.

[Dave Neal]

I mean it's. Is he just so grateful to you?

[Heather McDonald]

I think so, yeah. I think so.

[Dave Neal]

I think he should be more so.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah. But I mean I got my thing out of it which is like I got the proof. Well, you know what's interesting is there was a lawyer that or a journalist that interviewed me for what I think is going to be a hit piece on the Blake Lively case. And his biggest thing and he was very. And I recorded the whole thing because it's like a one party record state in Tennessee. So I was like, I need this in case like he tries to twist to this. And he was like, why do you, why did, why do you think people deserve to like care what you have to say about cases? Like what gives you the power to be someone who has like an opinion? And I was like, well, I was threatened with $120 million lawsuit and I, and I, and I proved my, myself to be telling the truth. So like I think there's some credibility there. And that's all we have, right, is our batting average. We'll get something wrong every once in a while. I have a bad take. We get something wrong. But like it's all about in the content world, like what's your batting average of trying to get it right? And with this case, I just kind of was the patsy who got stuck in the middle of it because that's what I cover. But what a fraud I would be if I didn't cover it right.

[Dave Neal]

But it is a very stress for me. It's very stressful when I've been in those situations and I have. And you know that you're Right. And you know you will prevail, but you do wake up in the middle of the night and you're like, wait, what? Worst case scenario, this is pretty awful.

[Heather McDonald]

Like, really get to feel what, what the panic, like in your DNA. We have this survival mentality. And here I am like, late 30s, finally got to buy a home. Like, you know how it is, the grind in comedy.

[Dave Neal]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

Finally four years of chugging on YouTube, finally got to buy a home. And now I'm getting threats like a month after I closed on this home that she's gonna graze her horses on my property. I mean, he called us all these crazy names and like all the. And did it all publicly. And then private emails to me, like.

[Dave Neal]

So she's still just living in the parents house.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah. And the appeals in the process. Oh, so then afterwards we do a campaign, kind of like how we got on your show here today. I told my audience, I was like, let's reach out to Rachel Mitchell. She's the county prosecutor. We. Laura Owens isn't being investigated by the county prosecutor right now for different crimes. So even though she was flying under the radar in this family court, you can't lie like that. And not many people get charged with perjury, even though there's clear perjury. But it might come down to maybe some of the medical crimes, some of the medical fraud that she committed. She admitted to like doctoring images and placing different, you know, laboratories.

[Dave Neal]

This is like the ultimate like, you know, dirty john, but a dirty J. And like, because it's not. It's like women who get taken by like a dirty john, like for money or whatever, they're always. It's always just like weird and embarrassing. And men that get taken by a woman, it's like, well, you should have, you know, known that, you know, this young thing was a gold digger. But this kind of scam that women do, faking cancer, faking pregnancies, which those.

[Heather McDonald]

Are the two things they fake. Cause no one wants to ask questions.

[Dave Neal]

And also faking pregnancies, that's been happening since biblical times. You know, like women do it.

[Heather McDonald]

Can you imagine the day though, where.

[Dave Neal]

Because it's the ultimate attention, I had.

[Heather McDonald]

To get on my YouTube and say, I think she's gonna fake a miscarriage next. I had to say it before it happened because as crazy. And again, by the way, nobody in my audience knew that my wife was pregnant at the time. Because this was back in October. Right. We didn't announce it yet. So like, I'm learning a lot about how all of the medical things work. And ultrasounds.

[Dave Neal]

Well, also you going forward though, you had to 100% believe what Clayton said and that he did not possibly ejaculate inside of her. Inside of her vagina.

[Heather McDonald]

The evidence led to that. So I just. All I was doing is following the evidence and I was like, I'll change my mind. But like, yes, where's the ultrasound? You know, and she ended up showing some like, I mean, she, she ended up providing some photoshopped evidence that was like brutal, that it was like so way too late. But never death certificates. Never. I mean, she stole. She stole. Like it was she.

[Dave Neal]

How they pick how someone who has multiple victims chooses that victim over and over again. Yeah, it's. It's just, it's.

[Heather McDonald]

It's three active protective orders they all have against them still. And there's other victims, Matt. There's a guy named Shawn, a native American contractor, a non sexual victim that like she duped out of $100,000 worth of real like, construction work. Yeah, there's, there's.

[Dave Neal]

And it's really hard because, you know, people see it as like a victimless crime because it's a guy and you dated this crazy bitch. And so what? Like, it's hard to get like a prosecutor excited about something like this.

[Heather McDonald]

There's always bigger things.

[Dave Neal]

Yeah, there's always bigger things. No one was murdered, you know, like, whatever. And that's why they get away with it for so long. That's why this Scamanda podcast and documentary, this girl lied about cancer on and off for 15 years until she finally got caught.

[Heather McDonald]

And people don't come forward.

[Dave Neal]

They tormented like the mother of her stepdaughter along the way. Like it is just. But you're right. And that's why when I like to expose like, wow, this Jay Shetty's origin story is not true. It's not fucking true. And like I had the journalists from that story and I was like, God, nobody cares.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah, the Ruby, the Ruby Frank story people. The journalists were smearing all of the content creators that ended up exposing child abuse. No, look, people get it wrong, right? There's plenty of tiktokers that get it. Like the Boston bombings. Everyone was going after like every dude that had a backpack on. Right? Like the Internet sleuths can get it wrong, but like, they get it right too. And we need to be able to like, take when they get it right.

[Dave Neal]

Yeah, but I'm saying there's certain stories where I'm like, I can't believe People don't care more about this. Like, if I. If I do it in my one of ten stories, and then I. Like, the next morning, I'm like, oh, people are gonna be, like, excited about knowing that, you know, the Mel Robbins story of Let them came from this girl, Cassie Phillips, who came up with this poem. And then. And still some people will be like, it doesn't matter, Heather. Like, let them spin around forever. And she just marketed better, but that's okay. But, like, she should have said that. Like, she should have said, I saw this poem or give her credit or not try to. Not try to trademark it. Like, I'm just saying, you know.

[Heather McDonald]

Well, there was a time.

[Dave Neal]

I'm just saying, like, look, look, this is. We've seen this thing happen over and over and over again where this person becomes so hyped up and da, da, da, da. And then it's just. It's interesting to watch, like, doing the show for almost 10 years. I'm like, okay, let's see where. Let's see where she is. And I don't have, like, a big thing against her, you know, like, if she wanted me to come on her show right now, I would. But I would say, why don't you give this girl a little more credit? You know?

[Heather McDonald]

But that's. That's the democracy of comedians, right? If someone steals a joke. Yeah. Sometimes you. Oh, we were talking about the same thing. But, you know, when someone stole a joke, all the comics know. You shun that person. But, like, if someone's funny, even if they're hack, you're like, hey, they got a standing ovation. What do you want? Like, it's a clear cut. Like, there's justice.

[Dave Neal]

Yes.

[Heather McDonald]

And we kind of have unionized on, like, protecting the. I hate to say, like, the art of it all, but.

[Dave Neal]

The art of it. But the people that aren't that, they don't care. They're like, well, you know what? I don't think the joke was funny when you said it either.

[Heather McDonald]

Like that epidemic, America's Got Talent, where they wanted to give one comedian's joke to another comedian. Cause they're like, no, that's not how it works. And they're like, why? We don't get it. What's the big deal? Like, they don't. You don't always understand. It's like, that's all you have.

[Dave Neal]

Wait. Okay, this is a good story. So I was testing for this pilot, and actually Eliza got it over me. Eliza Schlesinger. But anyway, so this is a long time ago, like, over 10 years ago. And Howie Mandel was there, and I was like, oh, my God, we love my kids. And I love watching America's Got Talent. And he's like, what do you think of this comedian that's doing well? And I go, oh, it's funny that you say that. I go, because she does a lot of the same impressions I do. And then I go, oh, but I'll predict that she will do Heidi Klum soon or whatever. And he goes, what do you think? I go, well, I'm like, a lot of people can do the same impressions. I think the comedy comes if you can come up with the person. You're doing the impression of a really funny point of view that is their point of view, but also, like, it's the writing. Because a lot of people can do Drew Barrymore, whatever. Like, I could do. And so then, anyway, so I don't get it. Eliza gets the pilot, and then my agent at the time calls and is like, hey, they want to know if you'll write for her. And they're gonna pay $250 or something. I'm like, I am a headlining comedian.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah. Comedian would never pitch that to another comic.

[Dave Neal]

And I was like. And this girl is doing the similar impressions. I'm like, I'm. No, I'm not gonna. And you said, you helped me pass.

[Heather McDonald]

Me. Yeah.

[Dave Neal]

After I just didn't get the hosting thing to pilot. Like, I was just like, the fact that you're asking me, you should have never asked me. Like, it's, like, so insulting that you even asked me. And then it pissed me off, too, because they made a big deal out of the fact that she stayed home with her kids instead of pursuing the art of standup. And Howard Stern is like, oh, you know, like, of course. That's, like, such so amazing, you know, you're such a good mother. So now that you're having this huge opportunity at 40, whatever. And I was like, that pissed me.

[Heather McDonald]

Off, too, versus the grind you've been in.

[Dave Neal]

Yeah. Cause I'm like, yeah, guess what? I didn't. I missed the fucking baseball game. While I, like, worked on this. But somehow. Oh, let's just like. And then let me, like, write the. And the girl is. I don't even remember her name. And she's perfectly talented. She might still be pursuing it, she might not. It doesn't matter.

[Heather McDonald]

But, yeah, it's how they frame the story that it's like, kind of like, so I should have taken five years off. Yeah.

[Dave Neal]

Like, no. Like, yeah, like, 20 years. Yeah. I should have just stayed home and then showed up on America's Got Talent. But of course, that's all the show and, you know, it's all.

[Heather McDonald]

And honestly, in today's world, a lot.

[Dave Neal]

Of that is not really. Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

You know, I can. I can sell more tickets than someone who did five Conan O'Briens.

[Dave Neal]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

It's like, it doesn't have the equity it used to.

[Dave Neal]

Right.

[Heather McDonald]

But, like, you know, comedy, you're supposed to make it look easy. So people go, oh, yeah, what's the big deal? Just like, yeah, that's. That took a lot of work to get to that point. Right.

[Dave Neal]

Yeah. And, you know, it's true. All these people now do their live shows or whatever. And I'm like, good, let's see. Let's see if you're still doing your live podcast tour or your Q and A, like, four years from now. Let's just see. But make your money. But I'm like, make your money while you can make it. Cause it's fleeting, you know, if you've been on these reality shows, we see it. It's like, some people can make it last. But I even said to Nick, I was like, what happened to all those bachelor podcasts? There were, like, 20, and they were all on Iheart. How many are left?

[Heather McDonald]

They were just bad. I mean, there were.

[Dave Neal]

And he's like, I don't know how many are left? I think there's like, three. I mean, if you want to count him, Caitlyn, and then, like, maybe there's two others that are, like, hanging on. And I'm just like, that's fine, but I'm just like, yeah, so go make your money while you can make it.

[Heather McDonald]

When. When you're exporting the drama, like, when what you have is, like, if you're Tom Sandoval, what you have is, like, one good interview after Scandival, right? Then you don't have anything. But when you're doing what you do, like, commentary, you can replicate because you're creating the commentary, you're not exporting the drama that happened to you.

[Dave Neal]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

So you'll find these big podcasts that are, like, huge. I mean, when Rachel Kirkconnell went on.

[Dave Neal]

Call Her Daddy, like, and that's Matt James's ex girlfriend.

[Heather McDonald]

It's like a cultural moment.

[Dave Neal]

And he was also the Bachelor. Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

It had, like, 50 to 100,000 people watching live. It was insane. But then, like, you know, you tell the story, and then that's it. The story's over, and it takes the wind out of the sales. So a lot of the.

[Dave Neal]

She's, you know, she's cute and everything. I. Yeah, I kind of. I now, I think, like, save your story for yourself.

[Heather McDonald]

Save it for your book.

[Dave Neal]

Like, save it, like, you know, but also, you know, of course she wanted a good one and she. It was therapeutic, whatever.

[Heather McDonald]

But.

[Dave Neal]

Yeah, like, where is she?

[Heather McDonald]

Well, she's super talented as a designer and in fashion, so, like, she's collaborating.

[Dave Neal]

Rachel is.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah. Designs her own swim line. So, like, it's not. She's not a podcaster, but she's got, like, a thing and was one of the last people to get a big audience from the show and say, you don't get that if you have 40,000 Instagram followers. Like, you don't get those collab deals that she gets because she was in the last.

[Dave Neal]

Wait, Rachel. Matt James, girlfriend, is a bikini designer.

[Heather McDonald]

She. She's designed some of her own bikinis and does different fashion collaborations.

[Dave Neal]

Good for her, because I thought. I just thought she decided to be the girl that's, like, constantly eating with him. I, like, didn't know that she had going, and I was like, how's this girl staying so thin? Like, she has to constantly eat, like, fried food with him.

[Heather McDonald]

She went. She went through a crazy experience, and it definitely changed, I think, who she is.

[Dave Neal]

I just came across on TikTok, like, him, like, barking at her about making the. Putting the ketchup in the ranch or whatever. And people, like, use that as a sound, and they're just like, I'm forever triggered by Matt James. And I'm like, to me, I think he's done well.

[Heather McDonald]

I don't know. Yeah. With those, you don't know what's serious and what's not. Because it's like, is this some sort of, like, Andy War? Like, you don't know what it is. And. And, yeah, he's. They're just so lucky that they were on the show when you could get a million followers that the.

[Dave Neal]

Right.

[Heather McDonald]

The post, Hannah Brown, Tyler Cameron world, you don't get that now. So it's like, your opinion. Like, sure. Like, he. He not. They knock it out. Like, he does good with his social media with his, like, foodie stuff, but, like, so do a million people that don't have a following. Yeah, it's like, so you. You get this audience, and then you try not to lose it. Because once you're done, like, once you go through the breakup, audiences go, all right, unfollow. We're done following that story. Like, what can you bring to the table then. So, like, it's good when you can parlay it and keep it going.

[Dave Neal]

Like, like you think, like the young, younger people now know, like, maybe don't go on the Bachelor. Like, it's not a good thing to go on. Cause I like, I do think it is kind of a weird. Like, I went on a show called Studs. And for a long time I regretted that because I felt it turned off guys that I went on just a one night dating show. I didn't sleep with anybody. It was just a. It was a strip show and it was like two. There were three girls and two guys. And you all went on a date and the guys had to guess what you were saying after. And the producers like help write it. And then if you each pick each other, you supposedly go on another date, whatever. And I was just like, you know, and I always thought that watching Bachelor, like, is this gonna hurt your dating life later on and be taken seriously? And also now you have this first engagement that's not gonna be your engagement with someone else.

[Heather McDonald]

It doesn't count.

[Dave Neal]

And like, is this really, like, I would definitely not want my kid. I used to joke and say, like, I wanted my kid, my sons to be the bachelor or whatever. Now I really wouldn't.

[Heather McDonald]

It's so. The show is so dead right now. It doesn't deliver the way it used to be. The Cinderella story. And now because like the post pandemic people got a little, little kind of wild and like, you couldn't do, like, you'd get canc. Like, I hate to say the term canceled, but you would get a lot of feedback and angry people if like, you do the wrong thing. So like all of a sudden guys like Matt James are like, no one's hooking up in the fantasy suite. Yeah, you know, they like, they, they make it. They kind of know to protect themselves. And I think the audience, if they just let them be a science experiment and let let them be go with your craziest desires, it would make for better tv. So now you're watching shows like we talked before Temptation island, which is like if every episode was a fantasy suite times four, because there's four couples that are all dating hot people and then they get to see cameras of, of what's happening. So like, you try like to not like, cheat on your partner, and then all of a sudden you see your partner like, selectively grinding with someone. And then you're like, well, after that, and then within three episodes, everyone's hooking up and you're like, oh, it's just like crazy.

[Dave Neal]

I know. And I'm like, and your parents are like, all watching this.

[Heather McDonald]

Insane. Well, there was a Spanish version that went viral like a few months ago where the guy watches his, like, love of his life cheat. And he's like. And I'm. I don't even speak Spanish, but I could understand. He was like, like, poor K. He's like running around, they're fighting, and then trying to kiss. And it went super viral because it was like, insane to watch. And I don't know how anyone who works on those shows sleeps at night because it's horrible, but they sign up for it. Like they know what they're getting into. So Netflix now runs Temptation Island. I don't know who used to have it, but Netflix does a good job. And it's like, no f, no FCC rules. None of this Bachelor on abc, Disney, Disney stuff. It's like, like legit insanity. And you're watching it play out and like, it's feeding this inner thing in all of us. It's like a. It's like a safe space for us to feel these feelings without being the monster.

[Dave Neal]

So what are all these girls that will go on it? Are they like all only fans chicks?

[Heather McDonald]

And they're like, every relationship is like, on the fritz. It's like we've dated for a year and a half.

[Dave Neal]

No, but like the attempt, the temptresses, they're just young.

[Heather McDonald]

They're young for the most part. And I think.

[Dave Neal]

And just have nothing else going on.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah. And even though, even though you have all of these experiences where, like, people get burned, you're still like, hey, yeah, I don't have much going on. I'll do it. And that's what the. I mean, no one makes money on the Bachelor, but the lead, they all go on for free. They get so. They get so exposed. They don't even get.

[Dave Neal]

That's why nobody has, like, good jobs or anything. Like, that's why no one really is a catch.

[Heather McDonald]

Any bro that's working a normal job.

[Dave Neal]

Is like their job for two months from finance. Or that's why they need.

[Heather McDonald]

They need to open up their wallets and pay someone like a Rachel Kirkconnell to come on, which she wouldn't. But, like Maria Jorgeous was like, perfect contender. She's like, look, why do I want to go on the show, sign a two year contract? You're going to pay me 125 grand after all of the agency and taxes. I'm going to get 50 grand when I could just do a Taco Bell ad read. So for two years, you're under their contract and you can't do any work outside of that. So why go on when you can just make your own money and not have to deal with all of the feedback you get from the show? And, like, people have. To be honest, it is. I've only experienced, like, a tiny percentage of what it's like to be snarked on online.

[Dave Neal]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

But, like, they go through. They go through a very difficult situation that nobody is willing to sort of admit because they get some followers out of it. So, like, now you take those followers away, which they're not really getting many. I think, like, this season, no one's got more than 40,000 followers. And it's like, who wants to do it? So they're gonna have a hard time finding people. And if you don't have good cast, the show's worth nothing. And then these other little, like, niche shows are just like, what do you think will happen?

[Dave Neal]

You think they will just pay people, like, 30 grand to do it? I honestly don't like, each contestant will get. I always think it should be. You get paid more just like a Dancing with the Star, the longer you stay, which would be great, but if you make it to the end, then you walk away. And then you're also. Your motivation is to really make this guy fall in love with you. Whether that's true or not, who cares? You want the TV to, you know.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Dave Neal]

So, I mean, that's what I think I would do. I'd be like, look, there's all these unemployed Gen Z people. Why don't you go on the show, see if you can't find love? And worst case scenario, you minimum make ten grand. That to somebody out of school, that's a big deal. And they got to be on tv. That's what they're gonna have to do. They're gonna have to pay reality stars bit more. Yeah, they just are.

[Heather McDonald]

And. And that's just capitalism. Right. Like, good people don't. Don't want to go on, pay them more and be a little bit looser with the contracts they can sign. Because, yeah, no one wants to go. Like, they can't. What do you. Like, no one would want to go on that. People can make a lot of money doing their own thing. And also they're kind of lazy with how they find these people. Like, they. It's like they let people submit. They need to go find the right people that are like, the chaotic people in their own scene. Doing their fun thing. Do a good job of finding people, and you can resurrect the show. I mean, you get two hours a week for like nine months out of the year, six months out of the year where ABC has a show to run. So, like, they don't. ABC doesn't even care if it loses money because it's just like a time slot to fill. So it's not even like the show could succeed even with a smaller audience. But you're seeing. I mean, they just, like, let a couple producers go. There was this whole issue with, like, they need an original, like, unique, fresh take on the show and not like, I'll pay you 20 bucks if you throw someone's, like, purse in the water. Like, audiences are smarter than that. Like, they're done with the contrived stuff.

[Dave Neal]

Oh, like the little dumb fights.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah. So. So I don't think. I mean, the show will die if they don't do that. They. The only reason they could get people on the show as contestants is the reward of Bachelor in Paradise, which they took away last year. Bachelor in paradise is coming back this year, but they canceled Bachelorette, so it's like, what's going to take off? People love Golden Bachelor, but then Golden Bachelorette was a dud. It's so reliant on, like an all star lead. Grant isn't really giving.

[Dave Neal]

I mean, I think it's just hard for guys. I always. I remember when they first started the Bachelorette, I was like, I don't think this is going to work. I don't think guys will. Will try and care that much to get the girl. And it's true. They did it on the Golden Bachelorette. They became friends. They become friends on the other stuff. They are like, it's not really in their M.O. but girls like cutting each other's throats and wanting to be with a guy, as pathetic as it is, exists and it's more believable. So I would say, yeah, don't bring back the Bachelorette.

[Heather McDonald]

But that's why paradise is so good, because it's like, oh, you don't want me? I'll go to that guy. And there's more. And that's why more relationships come out of paradise because there is more friction.

[Dave Neal]

Now. I feel like paradise has a lot of competition when it's the temptation, the love is blind, the whatever hot island.

[Heather McDonald]

Or whatever want to watch, like, the sexy, like, love.

[Dave Neal]

Like, wait, which one did Ariana do, the host of?

[Heather McDonald]

Oh, that was, I think, Love Island.

[Dave Neal]

Oh, love.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah. Those shows they're all, like, super sexy. They're shot. Well, even. Yeah, even. Like, Fboy island was, like, shot really in a really, like, sexy, sexy way. Whereas, like, bachelors, like, blurring their butt cracks and it's on network tv, it's just, like, really no longer. Like, we're not really expecting these relationships to work out, but, like, sometimes they do until they don't. But, boy, their batting average is, like, 4% workout. Like, brutal.

[Dave Neal]

All right, what do you think we're gonna end this here? What do you think about Meghan Markle's new show? And what's. What's the prediction?

[Heather McDonald]

I've heard the. I've heard the, like, the negative takes, and I can just go back off of my wife's feedback. She loved it. My wife doesn't like to watch the. The sort of. The drama that fuels me. Yeah, she doesn't like the I listen to podcasts where there's five dudes yelling at each other. She just likes, like, the npr, highly sensitive person thing. So for her to watch a mom cut onions is, like, that's what she's into. And I think that's the market.

[Dave Neal]

Yeah. I mean, I think there is for all of that. Just like, you know, it's like, well, it's not for you, then, you know, if it's. I can see why she did it. You know, people are like, why did she do this? And it's like, why doesn't somebody ask her. Ever bummed that you left the Palace? No, she's not bummed that she left the palace, because I've been saying this a long time. She's a California girl. She got there, and what she said was true. They were staying in a cold place. It wasn't as fun as she thought. The obligations were sucky and boring. And it was like.

[Heather McDonald]

And people are so what?

[Dave Neal]

And I'm not even going. Yeah, and I'm not. And like, where is this gonna go? And then I think she was like, or we can go to Santa Barbara and be the Kardashians and, like, own our own shit and get away from, like. I'm not saying what she experienced wasn't real and difficult and hate and all that. I think it was all true. And she had every right to convince her husband to get the fuck out of England. I mean, how many women have, like, made their husband leave the hometown to go near their mother?

[Heather McDonald]

And how many women.

[Dave Neal]

That's what she basically did. She went back to LA where her mom lived. Like, that is. I mean, how could you? The royals and their brothers are broken up. And I'm like, but if you think about it, and this is the first time I ever said it, like this has happened in families. When that's why people say, if you have a. Wait, if you have a son, he's your son till he meets his wife. But if you have a daughter, she's your daughter for life. It's. Oh, you know, it's. People even say that like, you know, the nicer grandma is the mom's mom or who you see more. I mean, my situation wasn't really like that, but growing up, it was my mom's mom that visited more. You know, like, and I have sons and I hope that it's not like that. I have a great mother in law. But it's like, it's the same type of thing. Like you have kids and you end up living closer to your mom or the mom moves in. Like, that is just.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Dave Neal]

And I, and I think people are so mad that she, like, you know, and now we're gonna get it. Now people are gonna be like, and I would also have gotten it. Like, you were so mean. What did she do to you? Your job? I go, I don't care. Like, she's still making a lot of money. And just like someone that goes and does a podcast to her that's never been on stage before and you all go to see it, you know, go make it the free market when you can make your money.

[Heather McDonald]

And it's like, Meghan Markle didn't kick anyone off Netflix. It's an unlimited bandwidth. They hired her because it's an easier.

[Dave Neal]

Job to go down the street and do some little cute cooking things than to learn the lines for Grey's Anatomy. Like, it is just an easier, less time consuming job. And then of course, now she's doing a new podcast and this big, oh, she's gonna interview, you know, female founders of, you know, female bosses. I'm like, oh, we get the Spanx girl. Like, we haven't heard the Spanx girl story. I know the story of the Spanx girl. Oh, then we get the other girl that did, you know, oh, we get the foster sisters, you know, who created their brand again, came from money. Or we get somebody that came from nothing and started making putting hot sauce into honey and called it hot honey. I don't know, like, whatever. But I'm like, I'm listening to it and it's like, and it's an eight episode series. I'm like, that's the podcast. Eight episodes. As I'VE like, gone and chugged along and done it.

[Heather McDonald]

I heard her first podcast they had. I don't know if this is true, but I think the. The theory was that they would have, like, a producer ask the questions of the guest, and then she would then tape herself asking the questions, and they would intersplice it afterwards. So, like, she wasn't even actually interviewing some of the guests.

[Dave Neal]

It came out that, yeah, some of the guests were never, like, in the same room.

[Heather McDonald]

But, like, I'm, like, a pro girl.

[Dave Neal]

Or even the same zoom, get your.

[Heather McDonald]

Money, do whatever you want. I look at, like, we all have these parasocial relationships. My mom loved Princess Diana. She just, like, grew up with that. Like, she was just like a. She was a. Seemed like a remarkable woman.

[Dave Neal]

Right?

[Heather McDonald]

And, like, Prince. Prince Harry was like. Is, like my age. And, like. Like, imagine losing your mom in one way or another because of the paparazzi and that toxic culture. You don't. I don't think you outgrow that. And for him, like, none of us know what it's like to be under that public scrutiny from such an early age where, like, he was begging to go off to school where he could just be himself. I mean, imagine your son. Like, imagine just. Just that thirst, and then he meets somebody who has no idea about the Royal family. He probably loved it.

[Dave Neal]

She was like, oh, she pretended to have no idea.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah, but. And again, however the relationship works or doesn't work, I. Like, I stood in on suits for the pilot before it moved to Vancouver. They shot it in New York. And, like, she was a normal person. Like, everyone was just trying to remember their lines, but like you said, they're shooting 12, 14 hours a day. They got to remember six pages of complex, like, legal lines. And, you know, like, they're. It's a real. That was a really. Like, every actor on that show had someone they hired to, like, help them with their lines because it was so aggressive. Who wants that?

[Dave Neal]

I mean, I. I don't like. You know, I just think that. But people were fascinated by her. And, like, a Blake, you know, like a Hilaria. You find out some things that seem to be inauthentic, and you turn on her because women are like, you know, why should she have all these opportunities? I can make a rainbow out of fruit. I can interview a woman on a podcast. I mean, I get the hate, too, from women that sometimes I think are, like, why Heather? She mispronounces someone's name all the time. Like, why should she be making any money?

[Heather McDonald]

Get to this level where you're under that scrutiny. That's part of, I guess, sadly, like, the collateral issues of getting to live your. Your dream. And I always just say, hurt people, hurt people. And I think a lot of snark. I do think it's mainly female based.

[Dave Neal]

Right.

[Heather McDonald]

Men are brutal. Men will tell each other to go kill himself. A woman will tell you why. To kill yourself.

[Dave Neal]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

And like, men are tough. Like, I listen to sports talk radio. They're brutal. But women, you guys have mastered the art of getting under people's skin with the. With the snark pages and stuff like that.

[Dave Neal]

It's just the jealousy. And I don't know what it is. It's, like, sad. It's why I always say why we're not further along is like.

[Heather McDonald]

And I'll probably get a lot of hate for even generalizing right there, but who cares?

[Dave Neal]

But, I mean, I say, yeah, you could get away with just. Just doing eight episodes. Yeah, good for you. They're gonna give you $100 million to do eight episodes. Fucking good for you. So you can spend more time with your kids. You don't need to work as hard as I do. Then don't.

[Heather McDonald]

We have an American that stole the prince. I'm surprised they're not more loved. But maybe that's just like the pendulum swinging back.

[Dave Neal]

Well, I think nobody really cares about him now either. Like, it was, but like William.

[Heather McDonald]

But his older brother was like the bootlicker who stuck by the family secrets. Like, I see Prince Harry, and sure, he's gonna make some. He's an old millennial. Like, my generation, we kind of, like, were the first onto Facebook and had to navigate this weird. It was just different. And he's like one of the most famous people from that generation. These old millennials who, like, dude tried his best. He lost his mom. You see the photos of him with his mom, and I just see the inner child. Even as a grown adult, I see that inner child who was robbed of just.

[Dave Neal]

Well, I mean, I feel like she. We brought her. Like, I was so excited about the wedding. Like, I feel like everyone loved it. They loved that she was biracial. They loved that she was American. I thought it was a beautiful love story, even that she was divorced. It was like she wasn't this perfect pedigree. Like, it seemed like they. We lifted her up. And then whether it was smear campaigns or whatever, that she's mean to the staff and she made the alterations lady cry, whatever those stories are got out there. And to the point where they didn't feel safe, their story. And they came over here and now they're here and she's fine, but she's kind of boring. She's just kind of boring. Probably podcasting and talking and being yourself is probably not what she should be doing. Which, by the way, acting is probably what she'd be doing, but it's too much work.

[Heather McDonald]

My wife says this. My wife's a boring person too. Like she, like she's, she, she'll tell you that she wants to do a puzzle and that's what I love because I'm like an extrovert and I'm loud. We balance each other, right? And she's. But like, she doesn't want to be in the big crowds. And yeah, it doesn't always fit. It might not fit into entertainment the way that some people will, but we have like, you got this, this Bravo audience. This audience that's like, but wait, Meghan Markle's not throwing the drink at, you know.

[Dave Neal]

You know what I realized? I predicted that she would have a talk show, which essentially a podcast is a talk show. I predicted she would have a talk show years ago. I go, once she gets tired of being the princess, she's not gonna go back to doing the hard 12 hour days of acting. Because acting is a lot of work. And that's why a lot of people kind of give it up when they can. Whether you're, you know, running the Honest Company or GOOP or whatever.

[Heather McDonald]

Like when he was like, talk to people.

[Dave Neal]

Yeah, when you don't have to do it and wait in the trailer and be call time at 5am and all that stuff, it's not as great as people think. Once you've experienced for a while, if you can be famous and make money doing something that's less effort and more yourself. Yeah. People want to do it. So everyone goes, oh, I'll do this. I could, you know, I could have a talk show. Da, da, da. But I just think, you know, I also think women have heard entrepreneurial women talk a lot. And it is not something to get you up and going when you're making your Etsy bracelets. It just isn't. It's like, it's not really. So who's listening to it?

[Heather McDonald]

Like, but imagine as a producer looking at Meghan Markle going, what does it cost? 20 grand per episode? You know, what does it cost? And then they can live on Netflix internationally, like, they're gonna make a killing off of it.

[Dave Neal]

You mean that the cooking show?

[Heather McDonald]

Absolutely. They're just gonna make it killing. It's just content.

[Dave Neal]

And they said like the $300 pan had sold out. So it's like people saying it's, oh, it's unrealistic that she's wearing. Okay. But there's enough people that, that find it.

[Heather McDonald]

They want to, they want to expose like, oh, she got those, she got those cookies. She, they, they found like the wrappings of cookies that were maybe from, you know, Whole Foods that she didn't actually make. Yeah, that's going to exist. There's going to be some.

[Dave Neal]

And that's kind of the fun of it. Now everyone's talking about it. So people will watch it.

[Heather McDonald]

Even like when you watch it today show that the, the, the meatloaf is already made. They're not pulling it out of the oven here on set. You know, it's like it's not all real.

[Dave Neal]

Thank you so much for coming.

[Heather McDonald]

Please. Thank you.

[Dave Neal]

Please tell everybody, like, where they can follow you and get more of you.

[Heather McDonald]

In their lives twice a day. The Rush Hour with Dave Neal. Every morning, every afternoon, I do bite sized 25 minute episodes for your rush hour drive. And my goal is to end up having like a, like, almost like an Andy Cohen watch what happens live. Sort of like radio show where people can just come on and have these types of conversations. But I try to keep it bite sized and just, you know, be there. I always say, I'm like, if you're like waiting for the bus, I just want to be the guy who's like, hey, did you hear about the Wombat? You know, weird story, huh? So like, it's just, you know, that's all it is.

[Dave Neal]

Oh, we didn't talk about the Wombat girl. So there was this girl, an American influencer in Australia and she had her boyfriend or whoever filmed her. They saw a little mom and a baby wombat and she picked up the. I saw the video and he's laughing and then the woman, the mom wombat is coming after her. And then she does put the wombat down, but they post the video and of course everyone's like, you shouldn't do that. Now she, the mother wombat might reject the, the baby. Like, and then she said, I got the, the wombat because I thought I was going to be hit by a car.

[Heather McDonald]

Which she does not double down on the victimhood after the Internet backlash. Like, standard story. She was going to get deported, but she flee, she fled the country before she got deported. She was there, like, America, we're somewhere. She was like on a Student visa or whatever. But, like, you know, she's. She's kind of like a trophy hunter. Like, she has photo. You know, couldn't get a job at PETA because she eats meat. They were like, you can't work here. She's kind of. She's. She's finding herself, but now she's gonna, you know, enter that pro victimhood pipeline where she's been martyred because the Internet didn't like her. But, hey, tough time to be an American abroad. Don't be grabbing animals and filming it if you're like, the clout can go too far. Like, do your TikTok, dance in front of it. Do whatever you want to do, but just leave it to be. I always say it's like. It's like Yellowstone. Like, don't touch the bison.

[Dave Neal]

I mean, the only thing you could say in that is, I'm a total fucking idiot. I had no idea. I can't believe I did this. You know? And she a little bit did, but then tried to say, oh, I thought it was gonna get hit. Just say, I got excited, I did the wrong thing, and we filmed it.

[Heather McDonald]

Turn your DMs off for two weeks.

[Dave Neal]

And come back, say you're sorry, and then come back with, like, a cute, like, makeup tutorial.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah, donate to the shelter. Yeah, just do something. Rewrite the karma, and you'll be good. Like, calm down.

[Dave Neal]

Yeah, just go. Go away and say, if I have.

[Heather McDonald]

A hot take, I don't check my comments after I've learned my lesson. Just, like, let it be. Let it be. The Internet's very loud, and you can just turn the volume down on it.

[Dave Neal]

Exactly. Well, thank you so much for coming out here. Love it. Great convo. Thank you for all the juice that you brought, but we never really covered that Clayton story, so that was really great.

[Heather McDonald]

By the way, this is just my audition to get us on below deck. Would you do below? Can we do below? We'll bring our families on below deck.

[Dave Neal]

Oh, we could talk about that. Yes. I love it. Thank you. Bye.