Julian Dorey Podcast #298
Ancient History Expert on Nikola Tesla’s Theory & Strangest NEW Discovery
Guest: Matt LaCroix | Host: Julian Dorey
Date: May 2, 2025

Episode Overview

In this episode, host Julian Dorey welcomes ancient history researcher and author Matt LaCroix for an in-depth discussion about groundbreaking underwater discoveries at Lake Van (Vaughn) in Turkey, the potential for redefining our historical understanding of advanced ancient civilizations, and the secret knowledge encoded in sacred symbols. The conversation links new archeological findings, ancient symbolic motifs, obscure historical coverups, and the often-overlooked connections between science, spirituality, and cognition—touching especially on Nikola Tesla’s theories about the universe and the Flower of Life. The discussion emphasizes the importance of truly interdisciplinary research for understanding lost chapters of humanity’s story.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Matt’s Recent Fieldwork & Importance of On-Site Research (01:14 – 04:36)

• Matt’s Travels: Over the past year, Matt visited Turkey twice and made his first expedition to Peru, exploring ancient sites firsthand.

  • Saw private, off-limits sites and made discoveries shifting his understanding of ancient civilizations.

• Why On-Site Matters: “When you go to these locations…you see a lot of things you’ve never seen before.” (02:11)

• Research teams include academic experts and world-renowned geologists like Dr. Robert Schoch, aiming to document underwater ruins, including those beneath Lake Van.

2. The Underwater Discovery at Lake Van (03:43 – 21:28)

• Location Details: Lake Van—a massive, deep, alkaline (soda) lake in eastern Turkey—has a unique ecosystem with only a single fish species (pearl mullet).

• Preservation Powers: The lake’s chemistry preserves underwater artifacts, contributing to dreamlike stone “towers” and megalithic structures (05:51–07:31).

• Discovery Story: Underwater photographer Tossen Salen, while documenting aquatic life, stumbled upon extensive megalithic ruins 75 ft deep near the shore, at unprecedented depths for underwater ruins (11:34–16:10).

  • “This wasn't even an archaeologist…He just saw it was the underwater ruins of a castle…” (17:39)
  • Initial skepticism and misattribution by Turkish authorities; ruins labeled as medieval or Urartian, but Matt argues they predate these civilizations.

• Scientific Importance: The ruins’ building material (likely basalt, not the region’s typical limestone) and their depth suggest a much older, technologically advanced civilization (20:57–23:08).

• Dating Opportunity: Geologic evidence (volcanic eruption closing Lake Van’s outlet) and undisturbed sediments make Lake Van a potential “smoking gun” for pre-Younger Dryas (12,000+ years ago) civilization. “We may have the next best piece of evidence besides the weathering on the Sphinx.” (19:50)

3. Advanced Megalithic Stonework & Symbolism (28:53 – 36:29)

• Precision Masonry: Describes seamless, razor-sharp carvings—such as the Sun Cross and griffins at the Ionis Kalesi temple—unmatched by known Iron Age methods.

  • “How would you do that with modern tools or ancient tools, I should say?... It looks like almost like cookie cutters. Like a 3D printer.” (33:56)

• Inherited Sites: Later civilizations (Urartians, Romans, etc.) commonly adopted, built atop, and inscribed their own symbols on vastly older foundations.

• Symbolic Carvings:

  • Crosses, griffins, pinecones—all precisely carved into and across block seams of very hard stone (andesite/basalt).
  • Mud-brick and cuneiform atop much older and more precise stonework indicate “ownership” claims rather than original construction (36:29–42:27).

4. Decoding Ancient Symbolism: Flower of Life, 3–6–9, and Universal Laws (54:17 – 66:00)

• The Flower of Life: Ancient motifs found worldwide (e.g., Osirion, Egypt) embody a six-spoked geometric pattern (“blueprint for the creation of life”) tied to Nikola Tesla’s fascination with the numbers 3, 6, and 9.

  • “If you want to uncover the mysteries of the universe, it’s found within the numbers 3, 6, and 9.” – Nikola Tesla (54:25)

• Sacred Numerology:

  • Step pyramids, doorways, and symbolic arrangements in ancient art consistently reflect groupings of three and its multiples, echoing Tesla’s theories and universal harmonic balance.

• Masoned Symbolism: These symbols aren’t just art; Matt suggests they encode profound truths regarding creation, destruction, harmony, time, and cycles—what he connects to Hermeticism and ancient “natural laws” (63:16–66:00).

  • “These civilizations seem to understand the details of the importance of that harmony and balance. It’s like they understood the blueprint for the fabric of reality.” (68:16)

5. Knowledge Transmission, Secret Societies & the Handbag Symbol (75:34 – 85:02)

• Pinecone & Handbag Motif: Iconography (the ubiquitous ‘handbag’ and pinecone) appears in Assyrian, Sumerian, Mesoamerican, and other ancient art—evidence, Matt claims, of a network of “custodians” transferring divine knowledge globally.

  • “We have this underbelly of ancient knowledge that seems to have passed around the ancient world, then destroyed, but then preserved…by different secret societies and other groups.” (80:05)

• Breaking New Ground: Uncovered rare evidence—an Assyrian mural (Brooklyn Museum)—where the ‘handbag’ depicts not a literal object, but a symbolic transmission of divine, universal knowledge.

• Cross-Religious Significance: The same symbology appears outside the Vatican today, suggesting deep esoteric continuity.

6. Hermeticism, The Emerald Tablet, and The Roots of Science (86:53 – 99:35)

• Hermetic Texts: Matt stresses Hermetic philosophy as the key to understanding reality; traces “as above, so below” and other foundational concepts directly to The Emerald Tablet, a historical artifact (not to be confused with the modern ‘Emerald Tablets’ of questionable provenance).
• Scientific Impact: Isaac Newton’s study and translation of Hermetic texts significantly informed his discoveries in motion, gravity, and planetary law (94:41–98:33).

7. Coverup, Academic Blind Spots & the Destruction of Evidence (155:06 – 163:08)

• Intentional Loss: Cambridge Univ. paper documents deliberate removal (and disappearance) of megalithic blocks from sites such as Toprakale, Kef Kalesi, and others, especially during the 1950s/60s.

  • “I found that many…temple stones…were no longer present…removed to protect them.” (155:22)
  • Possible motives: ideological protection, fear of destabilizing religious or historical paradigms, or paranoia after WWII abuses of ancient symbolism (Hitler’s swastika, etc.).

• Modern Storage & Loss: Artifacts held in military bases, neglected in open-air museums, or submerged by reservoirs, further limiting scientific access and public awareness.

8. Synthesis: Science, Spirituality, and the Historical Paradigm (138:53 – episode end)

• Bridging Disciplines: Both lament and hope: current academic culture resists cross-pollination between archaeology, science, and spirituality; silos stymie breakthroughs.
• Call for Collaboration: Real progress likely needs teams open to evidence, new ideas, and integration of “fringe” and traditional perspectives.
  • “Maybe instead of competing, we can start collaborating with ideas…Can you imagine where humanity would be?” (138:27)
• Responsibility & Leadership: Matt expresses the need for integrity in research—even when it challenges dangerous power structures or upends comfort zones.
  • “People need to answer for things that happened that were bad…I think the truth is what we really need now.” (167:25)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Ancient Technology:
  “Outside of laser type of tools, if we could even do this today with that kind of precision…A stonemason…brought into Tiwanaku…was like, ‘I couldn’t do this.’” – Matt LaCroix (34:19)

• On the Lake Van Ruins:
  “We may have the next best piece of evidence…to prove that these are lost civilization evidence before the Younger Dryas.” (52:03)

• On The Flower of Life and Tesla:
  “He realized that there was a repeating pattern of life everywhere, all on Earth…That pattern…was known about by the ancients.” (54:25–58:09)

• On Hermetic Wisdom:
  “Hermeticism is…the greatest source of truth of anything that exists today…It’s the totality of so much that’s come together.” (179:03)

• On Academic Blindness:
  “That creates a corundum…whoever wants to have an academic background that has credibility…has to be closed-minded because…they will not be accepted.” (145:06)

• On the Value of Admitting Change:
  “Why are we so afraid to admit that?...I used to believe this. And the evidence mounted enough that I don’t believe it any longer.” (141:41)

Important Timestamps by Segment

• 01:14 — Matt’s return and recent adventures
• 03:43 — Significance and context of Lake Van
• 05:51 — Preservation power of soda lakes
• 11:34 — Tossen Salen’s underwater discovery
• 20:57 — The mystery of construction materials and dating anomalies
• 29:01 — Symbolic precision of the Ionis Kalesi temple
• 36:29 — Mud-brick vs. megalithic stonework: inherited sites
• 54:17 — Flower of Life and Tesla’s numbers
• 75:34 — Handbag & pinecone: transmission of knowledge
• 86:53 — Hermeticism, Emerald Tablet, science’s roots
• 155:06 — Cambridge paper & the coverup/destruction of evidence
• 179:03 — Celestial creators vs. “ancient aliens”
• 138:53–end — Synthesis: the need for interdisciplinary openness

Takeaways

• Lake Van’s underwater ruins could be among the most important archaeological finds of the century, with strong potential to prove the existence of a lost, technically advanced pre-Ice Age civilization.
• Ancient motifs and precise stonework encode forgotten knowledge about the universe, balance, and perhaps even the roots of human consciousness, as echoed in Tesla’s and Hermetic philosophies.
• Systematic coverups and disciplinary silos continue to hinder discovery; only by breaking down these barriers and collaborating across specialties can we hope to rewrite—and understand—the lost chapters of human history.
• In order to advance, researchers must value integrity, be willing to revise their own beliefs, and remain open to insights wherever the evidence leads.

For more, subscribe to Matt LaCroix’s platforms and look forward to the upcoming documentary exploring these discoveries in Turkey and beyond.