Julian Dorey Podcast #342

Netflix Doc Target BREAKS SILENCE on Childhood Trauma & Autism | Sarma Melngailis

Date: October 3, 2025
Guest: Sarma Melngailis
Host: Julian Dorey

Overview

This episode welcomes Sarma Melngailis, the former restaurateur and central subject of the Netflix documentary Bad Vegan. The conversation dives deeply into Sarma’s experiences with psychological manipulation, her complex childhood, coping with trauma, undiagnosed autism, and how all these facets intersected in her adult life — culminating in her high-profile legal troubles. Listeners get a candid, introspective, and often raw look at how her past shaped her choices, as well as broader lessons about cult dynamics, relationships, and resilience.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Reality of Psychological Manipulation & Cult Dynamics

• Manipulation is Real and Personal: Sarma recounts how the psychological abuse she endured wasn’t at the hands of some “fictional sociopathic character” but “a real person. He’s still out there” [00:00]. She explicitly notes her experience was “identical to being in a cult,” but one-on-one rather than in a group.
• Cults & Individual Abuse Parallel: Sarma draws comparisons between her abuser and notorious cult leaders like Keith Raniere (Nexium) and Larry Ray, highlighting how such individuals “study you, figure out your personal biggest nightmare…and then make it come true” [00:49, 05:20].
• Victim-Blaming & Public Perception: She clarifies that as much as public narratives (like in Bad Vegan) focus on crime and spectacle, the realities are much more psychologically nuanced, and public misunderstanding can add insult to injury.

Quote:

“My experience on so many levels was identical to being in a cult. It’s just that it was one-on-one... There are certain types of people who will study you, figure out your biggest nightmare… and now I’m going to make it come true.”
— Sarma [00:00–01:00, recurring theme]

2. Life in Prison & Social Adaptability

• Sarma discusses adjusting to life in Rikers Island, her unexpectedly calm experience among inmates, and people’s misperceptions about her.
• She reflects on how quickly people adapt to new realities, drawing a comparison with society’s reaction to the pandemic lockdown: “You realize, oh shit, all right, I gotta go in here... Then that just becomes your reality.” [02:41]

3. Childhood, Family Dynamics, and Early Trauma

• Background: Raised in Newton, Massachusetts. Parents divorced at age 10; both remarried quickly, with her mother’s new husband bringing six older children into the family, creating chaos and lack of supervision [08:07–09:31].
• Father’s Influence: Her father, a Latvian immigrant and MIT physicist, didn’t push academic achievement onto Sarma — something she misinterpreted as indifference until much later [10:06–12:12].
• Sense of Self: Sarma attributes her independence and self-motivation partly to this family dynamic. However, the lack of boundaries and supervision facilitated early exposure to older social circles and risky behaviors.

Quote:

“There wasn’t a lot of supervision and a lot of older siblings… I had a pretty independent high school.”
— Sarma [09:31]

4. Autism Diagnosis and Reframing the Past

• Post-Documentary Revelation: After Bad Vegan, Sarma received copious messages suggesting she might be on the spectrum. A thorough evaluation confirmed adult-diagnosed autism, which “reframed everything about my childhood and my whole past experiences” [14:19–15:45].
• Sensory Processing Issues: Diagnosis also included sensory processing disorder, helping explain lifelong quirks — like hypersensitivity to sound and smell [18:15–19:47].
• Reactions to Diagnosis: Sarma expresses relief rather than shame, feeling validated and better able to contextualize past relationship struggles and feelings of not fitting in.

Quote:

“A lot of things now make a lot more sense in that framework.”
— Sarma [15:45]

5. Vulnerability, Predation, and Female Experience on the Spectrum

• Predatory Dynamics: Sarma openly discusses becoming involved with much older men as a young teenager (dating a 23-year-old at 15, losing her virginity to a 21-year-old at 14), and how her inability to read intentions or set boundaries made her susceptible [34:24–44:11].
• Attachment vs. Love: She distinguishes her later attachment to her abuser (“a sort of sickening attachment”) from genuine love. This insight is informed by other survivors of cults and psychological abuse [55:01–60:17].
• Shame & Lasting Impact: The absence of meaningful intervention, either from adults or female peers, and ongoing exploitation, resulted in long-term issues with self-worth and boundaries.

Quote:

“I just never learned boundaries… There was nobody looking after me in that way.”
— Sarma [34:24–36:12]

6. Adult Relationships, Trust, and Seeking Safety

• Patterns: Sarma describes a pattern of alternating between genuinely good partners and highly toxic, exploitative ones. After chaos, she’d seek “no drama”—such as her positive, healthy relationship with Tobin (much younger, stable, non-jealous) [70:07–70:31, 120:01–121:02].
• Animal Rescue & Attachment: She notices a strong correlation between women who have experienced abuse and deep attachment to rescue animals: “You kind of want to be saved yourself” [49:27–50:47].

7. Female Friendships, Isolation, and the Downside of Independence

• Lack of Female Support: Sarma’s enduring friendships are mostly with men. She admits, “I don’t have the lifelong BFF girlfriend…that makes it easier for these people to do what they do” [122:57–123:47].
• Obligation and Anxiety: She often avoids forming close friendships for fear of disappointing people or being a ‘burden’; she relates friendships to romantic relationships in their emotional ‘cost’ [126:09–126:40].

8. Achievement, Career, and Creative Fulfillment

• Stellar Academic Record: Despite chaos, Sarma excelled, self-motivated to get straight A’s. She shares her journey to Penn and ultimately the Wharton School [93:08–95:22].
• Early Career: She worked grueling, high-pressure jobs in investment banking (Bear Stearns, Bain Capital, High Yield Funds) before recognizing a disconnect between financial success and personal fulfillment [95:38–103:55].
• Pursuit of Passion: Eventually, with support from her then-husband, she left banking for culinary school, pursuing her true passion for food—a thread going back to childhood [139:07–140:14].

9. Broad Reflections on Sociopathy and Manipulation

• “Confessions of a Sociopath”: Sarma commends this book for its firsthand insight into the sociopathic mind, emphasizing that such people exist and “feel nothing and never will” [74:18–77:54].
• Hard Lessons: Multiple experiences with manipulative people forced her to “remind myself to keep looking for red flags,” likening it to her friend Matt Cox’s struggle to continually resist old tendencies [81:51–83:42].
• Advice & Warnings: The responsibility ultimately falls on us to recognize red flags, nurture outside perspectives, and protect against isolation.

Quote:

“There are a certain type of people out there that will study you, figure out, like, what’s your personal worst nightmare... and now I’m gonna make it come true. And that’s what they do. And then when they’re done with you and you’re totally fucked over... they’re on to the next person.”
— Sarma [74:31–76:53]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote | |-----------|---------|-------| | 00:00 | Sarma | “This isn’t like a novel or a story about a fictional, sociopathic, diabolical character. This is a real person. He’s still out there.” | | 05:18 | Sarma | “[Keith Raniere] was sentenced to 125 years…my experience...was identical to being in a cult. It’s just that it was one-on-one.” | | 14:19 | Sarma | Speaking about public feedback: “Have you ever been diagnosed for autism or Asperger’s? I think you’re on the spectrum.” | | 15:45 | Sarma | “It reframed everything about my childhood and my whole past experiences where a lot of things now make a lot more sense in that framework.” | | 34:24 | Sarma | “Girls who would get this diagnosis of being on the spectrum, it’s almost inevitable that you’re going to get taken advantage of.” | | 49:27 | Sarma | “There’s something about specifically being drawn to animals and shelters and rescue animals and wanting to save them with something where, like, you kind of want to be saved yourself.” | | 55:01 | Julian | “Do you ever feel like people have loved you in your life, for real?” | | 58:14 | Sarma | “Love and attachment can sometimes get conflated…there’s a more pure kind of love where what you feel for someone has nothing to do with what they do for you…it’s just a deep love you have for that person.” | | 74:31 | Sarma | “There are a certain type of people out there that will study you, figure out your biggest nightmare...and now I’m gonna make it come true. And that’s what they do.” | | 122:57 | Sarma | “I don’t have…the lifelong BFF girlfriend who’s all up in my business…makes it that much easier for those people to do what they do.” | | 129:00 | Sarma | “…the TISM diagnosis actually helps a lot for that because it’s like, look, this is who I am—there’s a name for it.” |

Timestamps & Important Segments

• 00:00–01:00 – Sarma outlines the psychological realities of her abuse: "This is a real person."
• 05:00–06:15 – Parallels between cults (Nexium, Sarah Lawrence) and her own experience.
• 14:17–18:15 – Discovery and impact of her autism diagnosis.
• 34:24–44:11 – Candid discussion of predation, lack of boundaries, and early sexual trauma.
• 49:27–50:47 – Animal rescue as a metaphor for self-rescue among survivors.
• 55:01–60:17 – Deep dive into distinctions between love, attachment, and psychological predation.
• 74:31–76:53 – The chilling intentionality of sociopaths and survival strategies.
• 81:51–83:42 – The struggle to develop and maintain boundaries after abuse.
• 120:01–121:02 – The on-off cycle between stable and chaotic relationships.
• 139:07–140:14 – Transition from banking to culinary school; following creative passion.

Tone & Language

The episode maintains a deeply personal, introspective, and sometimes darkly humorous tone. Sarma is frank about her self-doubt, trauma, and flaws, while Julian matches her candor with direct and thoughtful questioning. There is no sugarcoating of abuse; instead, there is emotional honesty and a focus on hard-won insights, delivered in accessible language.

Conclusion: Takeaways

• Psychological manipulation is deeply personal and can happen in intimate, one-on-one contexts that mimic cult dynamics.
• Undiagnosed neurodivergence (like autism) can help explain a lifetime of feeling 'out of place' and can dramatically impact vulnerability in relationships.
• Trauma, especially when compounded by lack of boundaries and supportive friendships, creates long-term challenges with self-worth and trust.
• Genuine recovery and resilience often involve reframing childhood experiences, seeking labels that clarify (not stigmatize), and developing new strategies to spot red flags and cultivate genuine relationships.
• Stories like Sarma’s are a vital warning, not just about "bad people," but about the ordinary ways predation can infiltrate our lives when we aren’t equipped or supported.

For those interested in exploring these topics further, Sarma recommends "Confessions of a Sociopath" for understanding the mind of manipulators, and reflects on the value of both professional and peer support in long-term healing.