Julian Dorey Podcast: Episode #347

Guest: Chris Ramsay
Theme: UFO Tech, Project Stargate & Strangest Encounters
Release Date: October 21, 2025

Overview

This episode welcomes magician and UFO investigator Chris Ramsay for an expansive, deep-dive discussion into the worlds of UFO sightings, abduction accounts, high-strangeness, and the overlap with psychic phenomena explored in CIA programs like Project Stargate. Ramsay and host Julian Dorey reflect on famous cases, theories about alien motives, the reliability of human memory, and even draw parallels between magic and the “engineering of memory” among experiencers of the phenomenon. The episode is a rich tapestry of skepticism, open-minded inquiry, wild speculation, and the persistent mystery of the UFO question.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Travis Walton Case & UFO Consistencies

[00:00–05:00]

• Chris recounts the Travis Walton abduction (1975, Snowflake, Arizona): Walton and his logging crew encounter a UFO; Walton is struck by a beam and vanishes for five days.
• Under hypnosis, Walton remembers waking on a table surrounded by “bulbous-headed” beings in orange jumpsuits—human-sized tables, “white-orange jumpsuits, jacked, perfect specimens.”
  • Notable Quote:
    "He gets really close to it, starts hearing a noise as if it's like powering up. What he remembers is he wakes up on this table, he sees this bright light, he sees these bulbous heads hovering over him." —Chris Ramsay [00:00]
• Ramsay highlights consistency in global UFO/abduction accounts, even before the internet could have cross-pollinated details.
• The Zimbabwe school encounter (1994) is discussed: children and teachers report small beings, communicating telepathically with warnings about humanity’s future.
  • Notable Quote:
    "The communication specifically being about how, you know, you humans have no idea what you’re capable of or, you know, basically like themes of don’t blow yourselves up, like as a human race, et cetera." —Julian Dorey [03:02]

2. Why Children? The “Testing Humanity” Hypothesis

[05:53–07:07]

• The Zimbabwe event occurred at an international school: Ramsay speculates this could be a deliberate “contact test” for humanity, as opposed to landing on the White House lawn.
  • Notable Quote:
    "If you were to sort of test humanity on, you know, contact and how—what would happen if contact happened? That’s how you would do it.” —Chris Ramsay [06:10]

3. Simulation, Systems, and Theories on Alien Behavior

[07:07–12:07]

• Ramsay floats multiple hypotheses:
  • Aliens simulate different scenarios (visibility, crash retrieval, etc.) to see how humanity reacts.
  • The “system” idea: UFOs as a planetary immune system, responding to wars, nukes, or significant events (e.g., shutting down nukes, genetic sampling).
  • “Von Neumann probe” analogy—aliens might use advanced probes or agents, not necessarily travel themselves.
  • Abductions as part of simulating or maintaining planetary ecologies: collection of DNA, samples, and genetic upgrades.
    • Notable Quote:
      "Maybe this is also just part of the system where it’s like this sort of eco zoo... if ever the scales are tipped too far, it would come out, shut down the nukes." —Chris Ramsay [10:02]
  • UFO interiors often described as barren, lacking controls, suggesting a non-human-centric or “psionically linked” operation.

4. Patterns in Human Memory, Magic, and UFO Testimony

[23:40–28:39]

• Ramsay, as a magician, draws parallels between magic’s “engineering of memory” and the unreliable, malleable nature of UFO witness accounts.
• Experiencers embellish or round their stories, not necessarily to lie, but to convey emotion, awe, and credibility—humanizing what is, ultimately, ineffable.
  • Notable Quote:
    "If you’ve told it more than once, you’re making that story better as you go along..." —Chris Ramsay [28:07]

5. Objective Evidence & Skepticism: Polygraphs & Multiple Witnesses

[57:36–59:40]

• Walton’s case: all seven logging crew members passed polygraphs, unusual under stress; supports core elements of the account.
• Multiple witnesses (kids, adults, teachers)—but patterns of slight variation lend authenticity.
  • Notable Quote:
    "That’s seven people who are not trained to sort of fool those machines... the odds are one of them is going to fail if they’re bullshitting, right?" —Chris Ramsay [57:36]

6. Changing Alien Images: Nordics to Grays to Future Humans

[61:28–64:04]

• A shift historically from tall, blond “space brothers” (Nordics) to genderless grays noted; “time traveler” as a possible explanation (Michael P. Masters’ theory).
• As genetics and fertility decline on Earth, “future human” visitors might be seeking optimal DNA from periods of greatest genetic diversity (1950–2000s).
• Ramsay connects high strangeness stories (e.g., orange-jumpsuit beings described years apart) to the possibility of time travel, panspermia, or persistent ultra-terrestrial presence.

7. Project Stargate, Remote Viewing, and the Limits of Psychic Data

[127:18–146:49]

• Ramsay undergoes and documents training in remote viewing (with Nelson Dellis and Project Stargate’s Joe McMoneagle).
• Describes the controlled, double-blind methods—sometimes remarkable matches, many times not, but hits can be uncanny.
• Stargate: of 600 trainees, only six excelled (all had synesthesia); McMoneagle’s major “hits” included finding hostages, nuclear sites, downed aircraft.
  • Notable Quote:
    "He got five first place matches out of six during his tests, which is unheard of." —Chris Ramsay [132:03]
• Emphasizes: remote viewing was just one “constellation” of intelligence sources, never used in isolation.
• Meditation and mass consciousness experiments (e.g., crime reduction) hint at “psi” phenomena, but Ramsay is careful to cite magician’s skepticism and need for controls.

8. Magic and the Perception of Reality

[94:39–99:42]

• Ramsay discusses magician methods, skepticism, and how knowledge of illusion breeds both open inquiry and an urge to debunk.
• He cautions that just because something can be faked (e.g., blindfold acts) doesn’t mean it isn’t real—but magicians’ insights are vital for controlled parapsychology experiments.
• “Mixed mediumship”: sometimes magicians experience seemingly “real” magic or synchronicity while in performance flow states, suggesting a possible unknown psychic element.
  • Notable Story:
    Ramsay recounts a card/memory trick in Spain that accidentally dovetails into a genuine synchronicity, blurring the line between trick and anomaly [155:39].

9. Worldview Expansion, Open-Mindedness & Discernment

[52:20–54:54, 116:31–119:10]

• Ramsay promotes a nuanced approach: don’t ignore data, don’t force new information into old models, but be open to expanding one’s worldview.
• Warns against binary, “all-or-nothing” thinking—nuance is key, and humility in not knowing is necessary for genuine inquiry.
  • Notable Quote:
    "Just because you have an explanation for something, that doesn’t mean that’s the explanation. There could be something you’re not thinking of." —Chris Ramsay [115:58]

10. Creativity, Motivation & The Artist’s Journey

[102:11–106:02]

• Ramsay shares his transition from a massively successful magic YouTube channel (7M+ subs) into UFO research and Area 52 content, driven by a need to follow creative fire.
• “You can’t fake curiosity.” The happiest, most meaningful paths follow authentic, selfish creative pursuits, not external praise or manufactured relevance.
  • Notable Quote:
    "I’m doing it out of an incredible—I’m doing it completely selfishly to feed my own creativity..." —Chris Ramsay [108:25]

11. The Role of Noise, Misinformation & Disclosure

[169:31–175:43]

• Concern: Will an overflow of unvetted stories, grifters, and drama “drown out” the valuable signals, making public belief and meaningful discovery even harder?
  • Ramsay: As long as society is talking about it—pro or con—that’s cultural progress. The genie can’t be put back in the bottle.
  • Notable Quote:
    "As long as you bring it up, you’re keeping it alive." —Chris Ramsay [171:50]

12. Religion, Conspiracy, and the Limits of Human Control

[177:18–181:17]

• Can religion and alien contact coexist? Ramsay thinks organized religion would adapt rather than collapse.
• Warns against “master conspiracy” thinking—human fallibility, competing incentives, and accidental outcomes create the illusion of grand, orchestrated control.
  • Notable Quote:
    "It’s probably more just a lot of really foul stuff where you meet a lawmaker and you go, oh, he’s—he’s dumb. Like, how could he keep his mouth shut about anything?" —Chris Ramsay [179:53]

13. Gatekeepers & Secrets: Why the UFO Truth Stays Elusive

[181:47–184:29]

• Some secrets get kept for patriotic, psychological, or threat-induced reasons, much as the Manhattan Project was kept secret.
• Gatekeeping may be done for "the greater good," but also prompts the question: “Do people deserve to know the truth?”
  • Notable Quote:
    "If you had a baby show up with a shotgun... get the shotgun away from him."—Chris Ramsay [184:07]
• “Maybe the truth is being kept because the consequences of disclosure are unpredictable or dangerous.”

Most Memorable Quotes

• "You can’t fake curiosity." —Julian Dorey [110:26]
• "If you were a time traveler looking for the best point in all of history to grab something, it wouldn’t be now, it would have been during this little pocket...maybe between the 50s and the 2000s..." —Chris Ramsay [66:55]
• "I think everybody’s road to disclosure is different. I think it’s a journey. I think it’s an ontological shift that happens over time." —Chris Ramsay [55:52]

Timed Segment Highlights

| Timestamp | Segment Topic | |---------------|----------------------------------------------------| | 00:00–05:00 | Travis Walton case; recurring abduction archetypes | | 06:10–07:07 | “Testing humanity” via international school event | | 10:01–12:13 | The “system” theory for UFOs & planetary defense | | 23:40–28:39 | Magic/memory parallels; witness reliability | | 31:26–41:58 | Deep-dive: Walton’s experience & corroborating cases | | 94:39–99:42 | Magician’s skepticism; how magic can explain (but not dismiss) psi | | 127:18–146:49 | Remote viewing & Project Stargate | | 157:16–163:57 | Sleight-of-hand demonstration live on air | | 169:31–175:43 | UFO disclosure, misinformation, and “signal vs noise” | | 177:18–181:17 | Religion, conspiracies, and the reality of government | | 181:47–184:29 | Gatekeeping, secrecy, & why disclosure is hard |

Notable Threads & Takeaways

• Consistency and Variation: Across decades and continents, core UFO/abduction archetypes repeat, but personal deviations in stories actually support authenticity.
• Skepticism and Open-Mindedness: Ramsay bridges the two as both magician and inquirer, advocating for honest data collection—and not weaponizing explanations as dismissive tools.
• Societal Readiness: True “ontological shock” is generational and gradual; it might take multiple generations to reframe public consciousness to accept the UFO question.
• Magic as Analogy: Key insights into memory, expectation, and perception from the world of magic find resonance in how society processes the high-strangeness of UFO reports.
• Moving the Needle: Meaningful progress is seen in the persistent, public discussion—even if it is muddied—toward normalizing what was once taboo.

Final Thoughts

This conversation is a tour de force of modern UFOlogy, the psychology of belief, the cultural power of story, and the humility required to sit with mystery. Ramsay and Dorey blend the performer’s skepticism with the experiencer’s wonder, making this episode an insightful resource for anyone wrestling with the unknown—either in the skies above, or the depths of their own worldview.