#353 - Brian Entin on Charlie Kirk's Missing Roommate, Gabby Petito & Masked MONSTER

Summary

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Julian Dorey Podcast #353

Guest: Brian Entin

Episode Title: Brian Entin on Charlie Kirk's Missing Roommate, Gabby Petito & Masked MONSTER

Date: November 7, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this gripping episode, Julian Dorey sits down with investigative journalist Brian Entin to dive deep into three of America’s most scrutinized true crime cases: the murder of Gabby Petito, the assassination of Charlie Kirk and the aftermath, and the chilling Idaho murders committed by Bryan Kohberger. Entin shares raw insights from his years in the field, reflecting on the challenging balance between journalistic integrity, public responsibility, and personal toll. The conversation also critiques the role of media, social frenzy, and true crime “tourists” in shaping narratives and investigations.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Brian Entin’s Background and Motivation

• Early Days in Journalism: Entin describes his upbringing in Florida, fascination with local Miami news, and his long, under-the-radar climb in journalism before becoming nationally known after the Gabby Petito case.
  • “Everybody thought that was my first story… I've actually been working my ass off for 10 years.” (01:48)
• On-the-Ground Grit: He recounts reporting throughout COVID as flights and hotels sat empty, underscoring his drive to witness stories firsthand, not just from a studio.

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2. Reporting the Gabby Petito Case

The Unprecedented Spotlight

• Gabby Petito’s disappearance and murder became a media phenomenon—catalyzed by her and Brian Laundrie’s social media presence.
  • "At the end of Gabby Petito, we didn't know that he was abusive or even that there was trouble in their relationship. We had no idea... Everything changed in that moment.” (00:00, 51:17)
• Becoming the ‘Guy on the Story’: Entin details how he gained early traction by being the first reporter on-site and creatively renting a neighbor’s lawn to maintain close proximity to the Laundrie residence.
  • “So I rented the lawn from the neighbor… I want to say maybe like $300 a week. I ended up being there for like six weeks.” (08:18)
  • “We were right basically in there. We would go right to the line of their yard and just... stay there.” (09:36)

Ethics, Obsession, and Crossing the Line

• The stress of high-stakes reporting and the ethical lines:
  • Following the Laundries—“In the moment, no one knew where Gabby was, then Brian Laundrie went missing out of the house... I remember telling Luis, my photographer, 'What is the boundary here for us? I don't want to be paparazzi.'” (16:48)
• Coordination with Law Enforcement:
  • When Entin spotted FBI surveillance equipment hidden for the investigation, he opted not to report it, striving not to impede the case but documenting it for later.
  • “I told [police] at one point that I had seen that and... I would never put this out.” (27:20)

Social Media, True Crime Culture, & Media Ethics

• Media Firestorm after Body Cam Video:

  • The Moab bodycam revealed the dark reality behind the influencer façade, galvanizing public and social media obsession.
  • “When that video came out… it was like, oh my God, this is a whole different story.” (51:17)
  • True crime fans and “crime tourists” descended on the scene, sometimes disrupting the investigation and reporting.
    • “There were true crime tourists ... with bullhorns ... it got to be kind of crazy … too much.” (55:08)

• Misinformation & Armchair Detectives:

  • Entin describes the frustration of seeing clips of his own news segments twisted for clickbait conspiracies.
    • “Their theories are so wrong ... I know the case ... but I don't think they care—it's just for clicks.” (57:18)

Emotional Toll & Human Connection

• Tight bonds formed with victims’ families:
  • “It’s weird, too, because I've become close to her parents now and, you know, consider them friends now. It's just a weird sort of ... circle.” (38:10)
• The challenge of remaining objective while empathizing with victims.
  • “You’re human first, and you kind of have to take a step back.” (39:15)
• On the lasting impact and trauma on affected families—something forgotten once headlines fade.
  • “You forget because they are so strong in public… but I was like, oh my God, this is still so real. This is still their daughter.” (69:39)

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3. Aftermath: Coverage, Justice, and Media Responsibility

• ‘Missing White Girl Syndrome’ & Legacy:
  • Reflects on the racial and social biases driving disproportionate media coverage, leading to News Nation’s ongoing “Missing” series—highlighting less-covered missing persons cases.
    • “We focus a lot on minorities... We do a lot of old cases, too… that was born out of Gabby Petito.” (74:32)
• Personal Integrity vs Corporate Pressure:
  • The importance of making gut calls on what to report, especially when it could impact investigations or public perception.
    • “You really have to make the call. You're the one who's seeing what's happening… You can't always rely on your boss.” (31:02)

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4. Charlie Kirk Assassination: State Case, Conspiracies, and More

Timeline & Chaos

• Entin arrived the evening of the shooting after an interview in New Mexico; describes the real-time unraveling of events.
  • “I was in Santa Fe, New Mexico… and she had CNN on when the video started coming up that he was killed … I was like, we gotta get to Utah.” (76:52)

Investigation Oddities & Conspiracy Theories

• The immediacy and inconsistencies of the crime scene cleanup, rumors of missing suspects, a “missing roommate,” surveillance posts, and questions about ballistic evidence.

  • “I noticed that ... backhoes and stuff [were] immediately ... They replaced the pavers and concrete in one area ... that was kinda strange they did that quickly.” (80:57)

• The “magic bullet” skepticism and autopsy confusion:

  • “A 3006 bullet from 200 yards is gonna blow the top half of someone’s body off … his head didn’t come off…” (82:45)
  • On the autopsy: “No autopsy … that’s kind of weird, right?” (101:52)

• Handling the spread of misinformation and conspiracies:

  • “Every single thing that ever happened is called a conspiracy now … That hurts, you know, hiding real conspiracies.” (88:35)

• Law Enforcement Transparency and State vs. Federal Roles

  • “It's a state case ... They’re the local guys, the cowboy hats, good guys. They do not think this is a conspiracy.” (83:37)
  • “If he goes to trial ... everything comes out.” (108:18)

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5. Idaho College Murders & Bryan Kohberger

Early Reporting and the Small Town Shellshock

• Entin was among the first national reporters, arriving to a tight-lipped law enforcement and a jittery, grieving college town, with the possibility of a serial killer at large.

  • “We didn’t know if it was a neighbor, was walking around … is the killer watching you when you’re out doing your live shot?” (00:38, 122:30)

• Media’s Impact on Victims and Witnesses:

  • Entin addresses criticism about media pressure on college students and unremitting scrutiny, especially on survivors like Dylan.
    • “What they did to that girl on social media ... was insane. She's just been through hell. That girl is so… beyond strong ... and people still won't leave her alone.” (127:49, 128:04)
  • Dilemmas over reporting student parties post-tragedy:
    • “I never reported that or showed video because I knew people are going to take advantage of this…” (126:47)

Law Enforcement Skepticism & The Public’s Thirst for Information

• Police tightness with information, fueling speculation and suspicion.
  • “Police weren't talking … that’s what kind of was fueling all of this ... families were being hard on them.” (130:46, 130:52)
• The tension between satisfying public hunger for real-time updates and not interfering with ongoing investigations.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Social Media Hysteria:
  • “The true crime community… Some of them think of it almost like a video game or movie... Unless you're really there on the ground, you don't realize this is not a game. This is not entertainment.” (39:15, 00:00)
• On Journalistic Integrity:
  • “Sometimes you just don't even tell anybody for your body [photographer/producer] … let's just keep this between us for now.” (31:37)
• On Victims and Families:
  • “I've become close to her parents now and… it just takes on a whole different life.” (38:10)
• On Media’s Double-Edged Sword:
  • “There's always going to be a group of people… who just come out to say the opposite and say you're bad.” (128:57)
• On True Crime Obsession:
  • “Sometimes you'll cover a missing case... The family will give you three photos … With Petito, it was like we were handed this whole envelope—amazing YouTube videos—so people became invested.” (20:08)
• On Covering Major Crime Scenes:
  • “You have been cover one of the most brutal murder scenes that anyone had ever seen. Brian Kohberger pleaded guilty … What was your first thought on this case?” (120:44, 121:17)

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Important Timestamps

• Gabby Petito Case Begins: 00:00, 08:18, 16:48
• Renting Lawn, Ethics at Play: 09:17–10:21
• Detective vs. Reporter Discussion: 26:01, 27:02
• Social Media & True Crime Culture: 51:17, 55:08–58:04
• Family Perspectives, Lasting Trauma: 38:10, 66:57, 68:45, 69:39
• Missing White Girl Syndrome & Response: 73:20–75:43
• Charlie Kirk Shooting / Utah State Case: 76:52, 80:57–84:41, 101:52–104:03
• Idaho Murders & Student Fallout: 122:30–130:44

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Tone & Language

The conversation oscillates between candid, empathetic, and sometimes darkly humorous. Both Julian and Brian steer clear of sensationalism, focusing instead on nuance, the complexity of real people and communities, and the ethical weight of investigative journalism during national tragedies. Entin is forthright about his own doubts, pressures, mistakes, and learning process, lending authenticity to his recounting.

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Final Reflections

Brian Entin’s frontline stories illuminate not only the haunting details of headline-grabbing crimes but also the ethical labyrinth facing modern media. His approach underlines the importance of integrity—being on the ground, making rapport with sources, reporting responsibly, and never forgetting the real human cost at the center of it all.

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Memorable Call to Action:
“You've got to show up and, like, try to talk to people and beg to get in and ask hard questions. If you don't, that gives everybody else something to talk about, too.” (120:08)

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Transcript

[Brian Enten]

Unless you're really there on the ground, you don't realize that this is not a game. This is not entertainment. It's like real people. At the end of Gabby Petito, we didn't know that he was like abusive or that there was even trouble in their relationship. We had no idea. And also we had only seen videos of them from social media that were like, beautiful. Suddenly there was this other visual now that has come out that it was like, oh, my God. This is a whole different story. Everything changed in that moment because now.

[Julian]

You had the image of the crying girl on the card. She still wasn't found. And now people were like, oh, my God, they killed her.

[Brian Enten]

There's so many weird things.

[Julian]

Like you have been cover one of the most brutal murder scenes that anyone had ever seen. Brian Coburg was pleaded guilty. What was your first thought on this case?

[Brian Enten]

There was just something especially eerie and freaky about that whole situation. In the beginning, we didn't know if the person was a neighbor, was walking around, is a small college town. Is the killer watching you when you're out doing your live shot? Even I remember, like being outside the.

[Julian]

Murder house in you have been out, as you said, looking at the Charlie Kerr case. It is certainly weird.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah, I was there.

[Julian]

Hey, guys, if you're not following me on Spotify, please hit that follow button and leave a five star review. They're both a huge, huge help. Thank you. All right, we got the news guy in here today, Brian Enten. It's been a long time coming. Thank you for being here.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah, thank you so much for having me.

[Ad/Host]

This is awesome.

[Brian Enten]

It's so nice to meet you finally.

[Julian]

You as well, man. I've been seeing you. We were talking off air. I've been seeing you since the Gabby Petito story, which you were like the guy on that and have been the guy on that story and many others since. But it's always funny. You and I were going through it. It's like people see you and they're like, oh, this guy came out of nowhere. He's like the guy now. But they don't see the 10 to 15 years before that where you're on the road all the time.

[Brian Enten]

100%. Yeah, everybody thought that was like my first story. They're like, oh, my God, this is your, you know, where did you come from? And it's like, no, I've actually been like working my off for 10 years like you said. 10, 15 years before that, slugging it out in local news, working my way up, was working in Miami. And then I got the job at News Nation, where I was working when the Gabby Petito story broke. And that was sort of like, I guess, the story where people kind of found me. I mean, I had sort of a small, loyal following, but that was sort of where people, you know, I guess discovered me.

[Julian]

Now, you were. Where are you originally from?

[Brian Enten]

I'm from Florida. I'm from Florida. I grew up there. Yep.

[Julian]

You grew up in Fort Liquordale.

[Brian Enten]

I did, yeah.

[Julian]

You're normal.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah. Yeah. Crazy place to grow up.

[Julian]

Good for you.

[Brian Enten]

There's not a lot of people who grew up in Florida. Like, I was born in Florida. Most people are like, come there later, you know. A real Floridian, Florida man.

[Julian]

Yeah. My friend Danny Jones always complains about all. All the goddamn Jersey and New York transplants down here. I'm like, listen, you know, it has.

[Brian Enten]

Gotten a little crazy since COVID though. Like, so many New Yorkers came down, right? What's the population change in Florida since COVID It's insane. I mean, I don't know the numbers, but I was living in Miami up until I moved back to Fort Lauderdale, like, two years ago. One of the reasons I left Miami was just because so many. It got so crowded. Like, my whole neighborhood, which I love, New Yorkers, but it all became New Yorkers. Like, my favorite restaurants were impossible to get into. My gym became crazy. Like, it just got to be nuts. Everybody moved there. It slowed down a little bit now.

[Julian]

Though, I think now, at the beginning of COVID though, were you going on the road a lot or even for guys like you did? Because Gabby Petito wasn't until fall 2021. Like, that's right, in 2020. And then early 2021, when shit was crazy. Were you kind of locked down too?

[Brian Enten]

No, I was on the road every single week during COVID which was insane because everybody was staying home. Like, the flights were empty. You could get flights all the time, super cheap. So I'd fly to Stories and be like. You know, there'd be, like, 12 people on the plane. And the weirdest thing was, like, in the hotels, you know, no one was staying in hotels, so I was always in hotels. And it would be, like, me and my photographer, like, literally the only ones in, like, an entire huge Marriott. And there'd be, like, they have one person working at the front desk, no one else in the whole place. It felt. It was like. It was like, ghost town, basically.

[Julian]

Isn't it crazy that that was only, like, four or five years ago?

[Brian Enten]

Yeah.

[Julian]

Feels like a lifetime ago.

[Brian Enten]

It is crazy, you know? Yeah. And I don't think. I mean, knock on wood, I never got. I mean, I was always the road and I was okay, you know.

[Julian]

Did you always want to do this, Be the newsman on the ground when you were growing up?

[Brian Enten]

Pretty much always, yeah.

[Julian]

What drew you to it?

[Brian Enten]

Yeah, you know, I was in, like. I was kind of a theater kid to start out with. I liked theater as, like, as a young kid, you know, middle school. And then, I don't know, I just started watching the local news in Miami. Like, local news in Miami is crazy. It's kind of like la. Like, there's like, you know, the police chases every day and the helicopters are up and, you know, fires and shootings and I just got hooked on it as a kid watching. And I was weird. I mean, I would make my mom, you know, I was also into magic, by the way. I was like.

[Julian]

You were into magic?

[Brian Enten]

I was a child magician. I would do, like, birthday parties and stuff. And then I went into the news phase, and I would make my mom drive me. Like, you know, you'd see the reporters on TV at, like, you know, 5:00pm and then I knew they'd be doing their live shots again at 6pm so I would make my mom, you know, drive me out there so that I could meet them. And these people were like celebrities to me. Like, I was obsessed with the local news.

[Julian]

You weren't, like, going in the background and.

[Brian Enten]

No.

[Julian]

Blowing them up? No.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah. Which is what we deal with now. Yeah, no, none of that. More just like, oh, my God, I love you. Can I get your autograph?

[Julian]

Yeah. They were. They were the superheroes.

[Brian Enten]

They were. They were superheroes. Especially to me, but to a lot of people back then, you know, that's when, like, local news was king.

[Julian]

Yeah. Also Miami, like, you know, they're ducking bullets out there.

[Brian Enten]

Totally. Yeah. Yeah. Crazy news stories that I grew up with, you know.

[Julian]

What are we talking, the 90s here?

[Brian Enten]

Yeah. I was born in 85, so it would have been. Yeah, like. Like mid-90s. Yeah.

[Julian]

Yeah. You want some. You want some good documentary content? You go to Miami, for sure. There's definitely a few stories down there.

[Brian Enten]

Oh, my God, it was. It's a great newstown. I worked in local news there before I started doing the national thing. And, I mean, it's never a dull moment. You know, you got, like, crazy politics, local politics, all sorts of corruption. You got crime every day. You got people eating each other's faces off under bridges. I mean, it's Crazy.

[Julian]

Like alligators down there, People eating each other.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah. There was a big story in Miami that was like a big national one years ago. There was, like, a guy on. What was he on? He was on. What was that drug that everyone was on? Like, bath salts. Yeah, he was on bath salts and, like, ate somebody's face off. And then you got, like, gators all the time, like, you know, attacking people and. And stuff. So, yeah, there you go.

[Julian]

Miami face eating attack lasted 18 minutes. Grizzly assault on a homeless man whose face was eaten by a deranged assailant lasted for 18 minutes and was captured on surveillance cameras. Rudy Eugene, whose authorities suspect may have been high on a dangerous new street drug known as bath salts. There you go.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah.

[Julian]

Had to be shot four times by a police officer to halt the cannibalistic attack. Oh, my God.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah. I mean, this stuff happens all the time in Miami. Like, some of it makes national news, but, like, it was a crazy news market. Yeah. So it was fun.

[Julian]

Yeah. It's like the good, you know, trial baptism by fire.

[Brian Enten]

It was.

[Julian]

Well, you're down in Miami. It's like, all right, I can handle anything now 100%. Yeah. So you have, like I said, covered pretty much all the major crime stories since 2021.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah.

[Julian]

We'll also talk about all the other types of stories you're covering. It seems like just whenever shit goes down, they're sending you somewhere.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah, yeah. It started, like you said, with the Gabby Petito, and that was obviously a big story that people got really invested in. I went. I went to Northport, Florida, which is where she left with Brian Laundrie, you know, in the van to go on the cross country trip. He showed back up with the van, and I was one of the first reporters over there, which I think is why people started following me. And it was weird because the police didn't really like us being there. And there was no sidewalk outside Brian Laundrie's house where we could set up. So they kicked everybody off the street, and there was no real way to keep an eye on his house to see if he was gonna come back or if Gabby Petito was going to come back. So I rented the lawn from the neighbor, like, made this agreement with the neighbor to pay him and his wife so that I could camp out on their lawn.

[Julian]

Now how do you go about just walk up to the front door and say, I got an offer for you?

[Brian Enten]

So I had kind of become friendly with, like, I'm just like a friendly guy. Like, when I go to These scenes, like, I always. That's just my nature, like to just kind of like I always make friends with the neighbors and like, I'm just talkative, you know. And you also have a lot of time to kill at these scenes, you know, like you're waiting for things to happen. So I'm chatty, you know, Know. So I had already become friends with them and they had like two adorable pugs. And I love dogs. So I'd always like go out and see their dogs and everything when I was just stationed on the sidewalk. But then when they kicked us all out, I'm like, what are we gonna do? Because everybody was going live from the police station and I'm like, I can't leave this house. Like something's about to go down. So anyway, I just said to them, and I felt bad at first. I was just gonna like, see if they would do it for free. But you know, I was like, we were. It was me and my photographer and a producer, like we were going to kill their grass and stuff. And it was kind of annoying for them, I think. So I was like, hey, we'll. We'll pay you. I forget what we paid them. Maybe it was cash. Maybe, like, I want to say maybe like 300 a week. I ended up being there for like six weeks.

[Julian]

Is that out of your own pocket? Are you calling up news?

[Brian Enten]

No, I think we got. I don't know how we expensed it. Like somehow we found a way to expense it. But so. And they had like. And they were both like hardworking people. They would leave early in the morning and they had like. I remember they had this little like duck statue by their front door and we would just put the money under the. The duck.

[Julian]

Oh, this is old school.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah, yeah, it was old school. And. And then it was. It was incredible because everybody else had to leave and we had our spot and it was right next to Brian Laundrie. You know, Gabby Petito is the, the boyfriend who killed her. It was right next to his parents house. So like we would. We were right basically in there. We would go right to the line of their yard and just. We had a tent and we would just stay there.

[Julian]

Oh, you had a tent on the floor?

[Brian Enten]

Yeah.

[Julian]

You're like Dirty Mike and the boys.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah. And because we had all our equipment and stuff, you know, and it was. Ray was raining. It was rainy swamp Florida that time of year. And I think it made his parents crazy because it was like there was nothing they could do. We were right there and we saw everything when the FBI came and raided the play, everything, we were like, we were. And we were on our own little. We had our own spot that we were paying for. So like they couldn't do anything.

[Julian]

What was the, what is the legality there? Because like you said, they didn't have a sidewalk. So it was a little strange because I remember it, you know, you'd see this video and there'd be people out on the streets. But you just mentioned like other people were forced to leave, but you were able to stay because you had permission to be on someone else's lawn. So how, like from a first amendment and maybe fourth amendment perspective. I'm sorry if I'm getting too technical, but what is the legality of police saying you can't be on the street itself?

[Brian Enten]

So listen, this is like as a reporter, especially when I was in local news, I mean, you're, you're battling this every day, people. You're always getting kicked out of places. I mean, usually if you're on a public sidewalk, there's nothing anybody can do, period. Like, you can stay on the sidewalk as long as you want. But that was the problem is there wasn't a sidewalk. It was like this weird Florida neighborhood where it was just a road. And then there was. There were like these two little, like kind of like little canal, not really canals, but little ditches for the like water. Drainage ditches on each side of the road and then the driveway. So there was nowhere to legally, I mean. And they can say you're blocking traffic, you know, they can get you off the road, basically, which is what they did. And there was nowhere to park, which, which also when we were paying the neighbors, they would let us. That was also a big thing. They'd let us park in their driveway.

[Julian]

But when you were in this tent, the cops weren't like, fuck you doing in a tent.

[Brian Enten]

Oh, they were annoyed. I mean, we beat the system.

[Julian]

So they're going up to the neighbors, like, do they have permission to be here? And they're like, yes, yes.

[Brian Enten]

And like, I, I mean, I had eyes on everything in that spot. I mean, they were. Must have been so annoyed. And especially the laundries too. But the police, I mean, I, I saw so many things during that month and a half that I didn't report because I was just. I was seeing everything up close. Like the police had put these hidden cameras up in the trees behind Ryan Laundrie's parents house to keep an eye on the back because they thought when he did come back, they thought he was gonna sneak out and I saw a lot of that stuff happen. I never reported it just because I wasn't. I mean, why would I go on TV and say that? I didn't wanna ruin their investigation. But there were just the spot. Yeah. Because then he would have known and you know, but the spot that I was in, it was just like I knew everything and I never left. I mean, I would just stay there all the time.

[Julian]

Now that's interesting though because that also is like a fine line of doing your job and also like trying to protect the integrity of the most important thing here, which is that an investigation is able to happen and people are brought to justice. Or you know, at the time she was found.

[Brian Enten]

Correct.

[Julian]

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[Brian Enten]

Yeah.

[Julian]

And you decide on certain things. The public should not have this because it could impede the investigation. What is that decision like? Because I imagine you almost have to think about that if you're. If you have integrity, like you on almost everything.

[Brian Enten]

100%. Yeah. I mean, I think you have to make those decisions in the moment. That's where like this whole, you know, like, I was really. I still am into, really into Twitter X. But I was into it during Gabby Petito big. I went from, like, I think when I started the Gabby petito story had 30,000 followers. And I mean, I had like hun. Within like a month. I was growing like hundreds of thousands per month.

[Julian]

You know, you were number one trending on Twitter.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah.

[Julian]

Three weeks ago.

[Brian Enten]

So there was this feeling of like, people were. There was so much interest in wanting to get the information out fast, but also like taking a second to think about the investigation, about. You know, by that point I was starting to get to know Gabby's parents. And this, I mean, this was a real. So isn't just like a video game or a reason for me to get popular? Like, yeah, there was like real shit going on, you know, So I think that's where like kind of the old school, you know, I had grown up going. You know, I started in a really small market, worked my way up for 10, 15 years. You know, I had like, ethics from doing the job in local news, learning from different people who I looked up to. So it wasn't just about like clicks, but there was this just like hunger for information. And at the same time, you wanted to feed that. But yeah, I think you just have to make the decisions and it's not easy, like, even camping out in the yard. I mean, what journalist does that? Like, I think sometimes I've crossed the line. There's other things I can think of and I don't think I crossed the line there. But, you know, I got obsessed with it, like, I started following. So I was. Since I was camping out there, I would see every time the parents would leave. And this was when Gabby was missing. So I started following them.

[Julian]

By walking or car?

[Brian Enten]

No, by car. And that's where, like, I started. I was with Luis, who was my, like, longtime, really good friend in photog. And, like, I think we started. You. I remember telling Luis, like, what is the boundary here for us? Like, I don't want to be paparazzi. Like, but. And we would follow them around. And then I started live streaming sometimes when I was following them because I wasn't sure where they were going. And this. You have to. In the moment, like, no one knew where Gabby was. Then Brian Laundrie went missing out of the house. I don't know if you remember that. Like, he disappeared.

[Julian]

Brian. Actually, if you don't mind, before we go into all this, just for people who don't remember the case or didn't see the Netflix documentary that came out, I believe, the end of last year, can you just give the outline of what happened at the beginning and what the nature of it was for them?

[Brian Enten]

Yeah. So Gabby Petito, this beautiful young woman, was with this guy named Brian Laundrie, and they built a van together. Van life is really big. It's still really big if you go to, like, Utah, Idaho. So they put together this van that they were gonna live in and travel across the country. She was an upcoming social media influencer. So she was making videos, beautiful YouTube videos and Instagram and drone and. And, yeah, there you go. There's the van. And so basically, they started on this trip across the country and things go south. We would later learn he was abusive and didn't like that. She was sort of trying to build this business of van life and social media. And he ended up killing her in the Grand Teton National Park. But it was just a massive story because she was missing for so long. And then he went missing, and it was. I mean, I don't think I've probably. Brian Coburger was as big, but there's not a lot of stories that come along like that where I think, like, everybody was sort of fascinated and dialed into it.

[Julian]

Yeah, it was. It kind of had every possible theme you'd look for in your Shakespearean tragedy.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah.

[Julian]

And not to make it not what it was, which was real life, but, you know, that's also something we could talk about in a little bit with what the public reaction was to it and then how people assess that afterwards, because, you know, the reality Is unfortunately, there are a lot of incidents in this country that happen every day where someone goes missing.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah.

[Julian]

Someone's abused by, you know, their husband or something. And ends up dead and is never found. And a lot of cases don't get the coverage. This one got the coverage, and I. I get it, but I think. I think the documentary also did a really good job. The one on Netflix of, like, kind of post the whole situation, wrestling with the. Why do we have a fascination with certain ones versus other ones? That said, both they were young. I think they were, like, what, 24 and 20, something like that?

[Brian Enten]

Young. Yep.

[Julian]

You know, and they're. They're. They had moved away from New York. They're living in Florida with his family. His parents, like you said, are at the center of the story. And it's like, what do they know? They go on this romantic journey across the country. One comes back, the other doesn't. Then you had the whole footage from the. When the cops pulled them over. So it added more drama. It just.

[Brian Enten]

It had it all. Yeah. And you had. I mean, as a. As a storyteller, as a journalist, you had immediately all of their videos when they were missing so you could tell their story, and people saw them and became, like, obsessed. Because, you know, sometimes you'll cover a missing case, and it's like, you know, the family will give you three photos, three still photos, and it's like, you got to make people care. And I think that, you know, it was like we were handed this whole envelope. You know, they had great YouTube videos, so people became very, very invested.

[Julian]

Did you get trying to think, like, how long was the process again, from you first getting on the ground to they find Brian Laundrie's body? Not hers. They found his.

[Brian Enten]

So maybe a month. Okay.

[Julian]

Yeah.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah. And again, at first, we thought he was in the house, which is the reason I was camping out, because we didn't know was an arrest gonna go down at any time, Was she gonna show up? You know, my first thought when I got there was that maybe this was like some kind of social media hoax. Like, were they somehow doing this? That was honestly my. Before I knew anything. I'm like, are they kind of doing this for attention? Like, oh, wow. And she's gonna. That was just what I first thought before I knew anything. So we were just waiting there and assumed that he was in the house and then realized something really shady was going on because they would never come out and his family would never. Just kind of weird. Like, you're essentially your daughter in Law is missing and you're held up in the house, like hiding out. And then he went missing and somehow, you know, mysteriously disappeared from inside the house.

[Julian]

And you didn't see. You had no inkling of that?

[Brian Enten]

No idea. And the police didn't either. And they were. And one day they were just like, we now don't you talk about why it was such a big story. So all of it was big. And then all of a sudden they come out one day when everybody thinks he's been in the house. And they say, and now we don't know where Brian Laundrie is. We've lost track of him. He's not in the house anymore. It was like, oh my God.

[Julian]

And his parents weren't cooperating at all, which was. Oh, that was so strange to watch. It's. It is impossible to put yourself in the shoes of, you know, someone who raised someone for 20 some years and then is maybe in denial about what he did and is trying to protect their kid. But at the same time, you have another missing human being here. Like, morally you should probably help out. Totally. That's fair to say. But they were so. I mean, I would. From the outside, I'd describe it as they were stonewalling it.

[Brian Enten]

Well, and we would later find out, you know, I mean, I've been working on this now for years, but, you know, through depositions and stuff, that they had hired a criminal lawyer in Idaho where, you know, and they. There was a lot going on behind the scenes. But at that time, just back to what I was saying, like, you know, I started following them because it was just. It was hard to not go all in. Like, just want to know, well, where are they going? What's happening? Are they going to visit Brian? Like where?

[Julian]

You know, did they catch you following them in the car?

[Brian Enten]

I'm pretty sure they knew. And you know, I think the FBI was. There was always like a few of us following, you know, like, so it wasn't just me. Like, there were, you know, like wave into the. But. But again, there was just this moment. And when you went back to like, like kind of where do you draw the line in ethics? Like, I remember thinking, like, what is the line here? Like, should I be fall. And you know, you get personally obsessed with something in a case. And I just remember saying to Luis like, that my photographer, like, where should we keep doing this? Like, you know, and I remember, like, even my bosses didn't know we were doing it. Sometimes we would just like, do it, you know.

[Julian]

Yeah, that was another question. It's like, what. How much do they know about your. Not even minute to minute, obviously, as you just pointed out. But like day to day, like what your strategy was. Are you on the phone with producers at News Nation? Like, here's what I'm thinking about doing today.

[Brian Enten]

And News Nation had just started. So, you know, we're a new. A new news organization even still, but this was the very beginning. So we are startup. We're still a startup, but even then it was like, you know how a startup is. We're already kind of like working everything out. And at that point now News Nation does like, you know, we're on TV 24 hours a day pretty much with news, but back then we were only doing two, three hours a night. Cause we had just started and they would run like Blue Bloods and all these old shows during the day. So it gave me a lot more time to kind of like do those sort of, you know, I'd follow them for hours and like, I didn't have to be on TV until at night, so I would tell. They kind of knew. But I think something in me was kind of pushing the. Pushing the limit a little bit during that. I think, you know, I. I don't think you can be good at the job if you. If you're constantly worried about, like rules and stuff.

[Julian]

You had said a little bit ago that there were times earlier in your career where in hindsight you felt like you had crossed the line. What. Do you have examples of that and why you think it was across the line afterwards?

[Brian Enten]

Um, yeah, I'm trying to think of a few. I mean, I don't want to jump around too much. I guess we'll talk about Bryan Kohberger later, but.

[Julian]

Yeah, we will.

[Brian Enten]

You know, I've regretted some things. Like I snuck into his parents neighborhood. Oh, wow. Which is like a gated neighborhood. And I got a lot of heat for that. Like people who felt bad for his parents. And you know, it's just when you're in the zone of a story and it's so hot and it's so raw in that moment and you're like, when we look back and talk about these things, it's like chill, you know, but like when you're in something that's that big in that moment and you're that invested and you're not sleeping and you're putting your all into the story, like sometimes you just maybe push a little too hard.

[Julian]

Is the mentality when you're doing this. I don't even know if you Know this when you're in it, but it's, I guess answer this as best you can. Is the mentality when you're doing this leaning more towards reporting the news and reporting the story, or actually because you are doing that also, like, kind of being an investigator and solving it and helping the investigation itself with the professionals?

[Brian Enten]

I think it's mostly reporting the story.

[Julian]

Okay.

[Brian Enten]

Because, you know, I don't want to ever interfere with. Like I said, I don't think I've ever done anything, hopefully, to really interfere with the police investigation. That's never been an issue for me because I don't ever want to do that. So mostly it's just reporting, but. But along the way, like, when these things are unsolved, of course, you're. You know, you're thinking, like, sometimes you find things. I mean, even like with Gabby Petito was just a regular person who had some video that they found on their dash kit. You know what I mean? Like, you can find things along the way, but I try not to go into it like that. I want to be a reporter number one, you know, and just bring information to people.

[Julian]

Did you have on the Petito case, going back to that? Did you have, you know, towards the beginning of you being camped out and, you know, trying to uncover information, was law enforcement asking you questions about, hey, have you seen this or seen that, like, to try to help with the investigation a little bit?

[Brian Enten]

They were really. I mean, they were under a lot of pressure, and they were. A lot of people were calling them out at that time. I mean, they weren't. You know, the public was not happy with law enforcement during all of that. Yeah, obviously. And then when he snuck out of the house and they didn't know, people thought it was just like a dog and pony show. So they were very careful with what they would say. I remember when I was telling you about how I saw the. So I saw them putting up the secret cameras in the backyard of Ryan Laundrie's house, and he had a neighbor behind his house where they put the cameras up in the trees. So I remember I went over to that neighbor and I was like, hey, I saw them doing that. And he took me in the back and was like, yeah, here are the cameras and here's like, their. They had, like, a whole little antenna system beaming the video back to their police station and everything. So I remember I told one of the police, like, sergeants, like, one of the higher ups that I was dealing with as a member of the media. I told them at one Point that I had seen that and that I knew where they were. And I actually interviewed the neighbor and got video of the cameras, because that's kind of my other thing. Like, you might as well. You don't have to use it. And I didn't use it. But, like, when it's all over one day, you know, I still wanted to document what I was getting in real time. And I remember telling them that and kind of like trying to show them that they could trust me because they probably thought I was this crazy guy, like, camping, you know? But it was like, listen, just so you know, like, I have this, and I would never. Like, I would never put this out. So just trying to build, like, trust in that way, you know? And I've had other situations like that in other cases with cops where I'll come across something and it's like, clearly they wouldn't want this out, so. And sometimes I'll let them know that I have it. Just to kind of show, like, this could be an incredible. I mean, if I had put the story out in that moment with the secret cameras, like you said, talk about clicks, talk about views. I mean, but it's like, I'm not gonna do something a. I've gotten to know the families, and I want justice, and I want them to find their daughter. And then also, like, I'm not gonna do something where I can't sleep well at night. And, you know, I would feel bad about that.

[Julian]

Yeah.

[Brian Enten]

You know, it's not worth, like, one viral poster, one big story on News Nation. You know, I. I agree.

[Julian]

I. You have to. You have to toe that line. Like we were saying a little earlier, it's. It's a tough line to tow sometimes because, like, you have a job to do.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah.

[Julian]

But I think people don't want to see that. Like, let's say people in the media are, like, in cahoots with law enforcement all times.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah.

[Julian]

But I think there's a really. Especially when it's, you know, someone's missing or there's a life at stake there. There's a. There's an appropriate middle ground there to where you at least say, hey, I got my job. You got your job.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah.

[Julian]

But if there's something that can interfere with each other's jobs that is not in the public interest, we can make that call together.

[Brian Enten]

Right.

[Julian]

So like you said, that probably helps in other investigations that you're then involved with, where they're like, okay, we know this guy is not going to just, like, run his mouth every time he Picks something up and, you know, that's important for you to be able to actually get sources and do your job.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah. And for them, I mean, solving the case is ultimately the, you know, the end goal.

[Julian]

Yeah.

[Brian Enten]

I mean, me doing a story, if that's gonna impact that, it's just not worth it in that moment. But at the same time, like, you're not gonna let law enforcement start bossing you around. And that's the law. And a lot of them will call it now. Oh, our media partners. And that always. I always thought that was a little weird. Like, we're not your partner. Like, you know, we can help each other. You can. We can help you get the word out about things and. But, you know, it's a weird. It's definitely. There's. There's not a clear line there. It kind of changes depending on the story and sort of what's happening.

[Julian]

And it's strange because you have to make gut calls a lot. You do. I mean, that's pretty much what it is.

[Brian Enten]

And you mentioned, like, calling your report your producers and bosses, but, like, a lot of times, you're the one there. Like, you really have to make the call. Like, you're the one who's seeing what's happening and who knows the players. So, like, you can't really rely on your boss all the time.

[Julian]

And your boss being removed and wanting the story and stuff, they're going to be a little more, let's say, biased towards you reporting things. That's just the nature of the business. So you have to be able to say, well, am I shooting my load for just this one story and I'm going to fuck myself in the future? Or is this in the best interest for me to hold on to this and document it later?

[Brian Enten]

Yeah. And sometimes you just don't even tell anybody for your body. Like, that's the thing. Like with a photographer. Photographer and producer you're out with, like, you guys have a tight. Usually a tight relationship, especially the good ones, because it's like, there are things that you're like, listen, let's not even. Let's just keep this between us for now. Because, you know, because like you said, other people will get that, oh, we got it, but, oh, my God, let's get it out, you know? And it's like, then you're the one who looks like a jerk.

[Julian]

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[Brian Enten]

It's always vanishing.

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[Brian Enten]

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[Julian]

So you had said you've been working. What was his name?

[Brian Enten]

Luis. Luis.

[Julian]

So you've been working with Luis for a long time. So, yeah.

[Brian Enten]

So Luis is the best. So him and I worked together in local news in Miami before and did all sorts of crazy things like he's basically my partner in crime. We would, you know, we did a million Hurricanes. We went to Guatemala. There was a volcanic eruption. I mean, you name it. We. We had been all over the place. And. And then when I got the job at News Nation, I was like, luis, like, you gotta come with me to News Nation. Like, I can't do this by myself. You know, you're like, you're my guy, you know? And I remember he was like, wait, what is this whole new startup thing? And we were at, like, a pretty established local station, the kind of place you could just stay forever, make a good living, you know, wasn't going anywhere. And. And finally I kind of convinced him. I'm like, this will be an adventure. Let's just do it, you know? So I had. It's good when you have someone that you can really trust like that. And he'll. He'll dial me back too, sometimes. Like, are you sure we want to. Do you know what I mean? Like, I can trust him on that way.

[Julian]

Yeah, That's. That. That's obviously incredibly important because, you know, I. I keep thinking there's not a huge difference. It's very like, what you're dealing with versus what, like, a friend of mine, Joby, War deals with. So Joby's been a national security reporter for, like, 30 years, Pulitzer winner, the whole bit. And he deals with all this geopolitical stuff around the world, and he talks about it all the time, where they will be working on a big story, and the minute they're about to press enter and go, some of their sources on other stories from intelligence agencies and stuff like that will call them up and say, great job on this. You got it. You can't run with it, though. And they'll say, why? And they'll say, well, because X, Y, and Z people are going to die if you do this. And then Joby and a group of other reporters who, at the end of the day, they're just going off of what sources say, have to go into a conference room and have a meeting to where they have to play their best, you know, throw a dart at the board and see what's right here as to whether or not they're being used by these guys to stop a story that's not in their interests or whether or not they're actually putting lives at danger. And then if that's the case, what is the public interest of lives, so to speak, if we report this? And I always think about being a fly on the wall in that room. I'm like, how do you even. Yeah, how do you make that call? You know? And Then the next day you read like, oh, 20 people executed. And it's like, you know, like you're.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah, sort of. I mean, that's harder than what. I mean, if you, if you're dealing with, like, you know, lives on the line and you have to make those calls. I don't know that I've ever had a situation quite like that, but I've definitely had a lot of situations where the cops have called me and been like, can you hold off for a day or two? And usually I'll do it unless I feel like we're being used or we've already held off for a day or two. And it's like, come on. Like, you know.

[Julian]

Yeah. When you first got on the scene and thought, you know, you were saying, your gut reaction was, oh, they're doing this for social media clout. She's gonna pop out. When did that change? And you sudd were like, wait a minute, something happened here.

[Brian Enten]

I think it was when his parents weren't coming out of the house. Because, like, most of the time when you go to a story like that, like, you know, the parents will come out and talk like, yeah, where's Gabby? Like, we need help, you know, and just the, The. The way they were acting just didn't make any sense. Like, not only not coming out of the house, but, like, they'd run to their car, like, you know, to avoid. It was kind of like, why are you acting like this, like, if there's nothing wrong here? And that's when I started to think, like, okay, there's. There's more to this. And I thought I was just going to be there a couple days. You know, like most stories, you show up, you know, something usually comes. There's usually some kind of outcome in a couple days, three, four days a week. I had no idea that I would be there that long. And then I ended up, like, retracing her whole journey. I did the road trip, you know, when I ended up just becoming a story that I worked on, you know, pretty much nonstop for, you know, months and months and months.

[Julian]

Yeah, it's one of those that you'll be talking about on documentaries. 30, 40 years.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah, for sure. Yeah. And it's weird, too, because I've become close to her parents now and, you know, consider them friends now. It's just a weird sort of. It makes a weird circle in a way. You know, it's like, you start out, it's such a story that you're into, and then by the end of it, you're Friends with all these people who were involved, and you care about them, and it just takes on a whole different, you know, life.

[Julian]

In a way, it's kind of strange, but this is the nature of the news business. It's strange when, you know, your job is to go get stories, and then you kind of. You work so hard, and then you have your moment where you do an amazing job reporting on a story, but unfortunately, in the middle of it, you know, there's insane victims, too. Yeah. You know, extended families, direct families. A young woman killed in her prime. Like, that's got to be a little weird, right? Where. Where it's like, yeah, this was a huge moment for me, and I did my job and probably helped the case come to a conclusion, by the way, with. With the reporting you did. But, you know, there. There's a. There's an empty hole left behind for people.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah. And I think for. Especially, like, on social media and that sort of. The true crime community, they get so obsessed with these cases. Some of them think of it almost it's like a video game or like a movie they're watching. And unless you're really there on the ground, you don't realize that it's like real people. This is not, you know, this is not a game. This is not entertainment. And for me, too, like, of course, number one is reporting, but, you know, you're human first, and you kind of just have to take a step back. And I was thinking, you know, at the end of Gabby Petito, at the end of Co Burger, like, I sometimes have this moment, you know, when I can finally feel like I can kind of become friends with the families more than just like, me always doing my reporting thing. And it's nice to think why I came out on the other side. And, you know, these people aren't mad at me. You know what I mean? Because it's like you go so hard, and there's so many moments where you could really piss these people off because you're bugging them or you're. And that's the other thing. Like, you don't. You know, there are things you're putting out that they don't always like about the victims or, you know, because you got to do it. I mean, that's your job. But it's always a good feeling when you come to the other side, and it's like, there's the good guys and the bad guys, and it's like, the good guys are cool with me. Even after all this, you know, when.

[Julian]

Did you first come into contact with her parents. What part? You know, where were we at in the case at the time?

[Brian Enten]

It was pretty early on. They were doing. They started doing press conferences with their lawyer, basically saying, like, you know, please anybody with information. And then they started saying, you know, that. That Brian Laundrie's parents weren't responding to their calls. And I think it was around that time when I started texting with them, and it just kind of grew from there. But she has a really unique, cool family.

[Julian]

I mean, they're cool.

[Brian Enten]

Like her dad, Joe. Her parents are divorced, but they're all really close. She's got two moms and two dads.

[Julian]

It seemed very. Yeah, I'm glad to hear that. That's legit, too.

[Brian Enten]

It is legit. It is legit. And that's the other interesting thing with covering these stories is you get this look into these families and these. Even you put the crimes aside. You get this really intimate look into these people's lives. And, like, with the petitos, it's like, holy, like, cow. Like, I mean, I. You know, my parents are divorced, and they don't get along. Like, I'm just like, wow. Like, this isn't amazing. Like, they're an amazing. And it's all real. Like, they. They all go golfing together. They go on vacation together. Like, it's really, really cool. Yeah.

[Julian]

Yeah, it's. I mean, when you're watching a family come out and basically, like, beg the public for help, and you're starting to see the pieces come together, you see that his. You know, he's left the house at that point, which is crazy that no one. Do we even know how he got out.

[Brian Enten]

I mean, it sounds like they thought it was the mom leaving one day, and it was actually him, which is, like, so stupid. Like, how do you mistake him for. How do you think?

[Julian]

You know, she's like, plus 200 on him.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And she's like. Yeah. I mean, it's like a woman. It doesn't make any sense, you know, so. No, that's nuts.

[Julian]

Yeah, musta. I mean, I'm guessing it had to be, like, middle of the night, like, back door, something like that.

[Brian Enten]

I mean, there's so many weird things. Like, you know, remember it was. He ended up in this swamp, which was like a half an hour away. So then my life became. When they thought he was in the swamp, they didn't know he was dead. But it could be. My life would be like camping out at the house and going to the swamp. Like, I would just go back and Forth every day, obsessively.

[Julian]

Crocodile.

[Brian Enten]

Done. Yeah. Yeah. Because I was like, oh, my God, now I gotta be at the swamp all the time. Time, like. And there was no cell phone service at the swamp, and it was before I had, like, a Starlink. So like, that was really difficult, though. Imagine going somewhere for half the day and having zero cell phone service in the swamp. So I wasn't able to talk to my bosses. When stuff would happen, I'd be like. I'd have to drive to tweet. Like, you know, I'd run, drive, get a tweet out, go back to the swamp and, like, the TED movie.

[Julian]

Sorry, I was sending a tweet. Like, crashing.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah. I was so frustrated, you know what I mean? Because I was, like, trying to get everything out so fast.

[Julian]

Are you afraid when you go out to that swamp, though? I mean, it's you and. And Luis, and.

[Brian Enten]

I mean, I'm a little afraid. It's funny. I'm not afraid of, like. Like killers, but I'm afraid of, like. I mean, I'm a little afraid of, like, gators at night and stuff. You know what I mean? Like, when you're right by the water, like, that kind of stuff does kind of freak me out a little, you know?

[Julian]

Were you carrying?

[Brian Enten]

No, I wasn't.

[Julian]

No. Brian.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah.

[Julian]

You're from Florida?

[Brian Enten]

Yeah. No comment.

[Julian]

I thought all you people care.

[Brian Enten]

I'm working for a news nation, you know, I got to be careful. We got. We got corporate policies.

[Julian]

They got corporate policies over there. No comment. All right, I like that. Yeah. I mean, that's you're talking about, though, someone who was trained to, like, live off the land. Brian Anthony, grown up, loving camping, you know.

[Brian Enten]

Brian Laundry.

[Julian]

I'm sorry, did I say.

[Brian Enten]

Did I say your name? Yeah, that's the other thing. It's so weird that he has the same name and then with Brian Coburger, too. So it's like all these years, something.

[Julian]

With the Brian man. Brian Laundrie had grown up living off the land. And so he had. If I remember correctly, he had camped out in this swamp, which is a large area, too.

[Brian Enten]

Huge. Yeah. Huge wildlife reserve. Yeah. Yeah. And he knew it well. And he hiked there. And so. Yeah, that people thought, you know, perhaps he could be, you know, would know how to survive out there for a while. Which is why, I mean, they had crazy resources out there. You know, Feds, state, local police, people on horses, at drones, helicopters. I mean, every day it was a massive search. You didn't know if that was gonna be the day. And then, you know, you remember again, just back to the weirdness factor. You know, they search for weeks and weeks and we're out there every day and it was so hot that time of year, and just muggy. Just middle of Florida, you know, and raining every day. And they're searching and these guys are coming out. I mean, every day they're covering every inch. And then like his parents go for a random walk in the swamp and like within like 10 minutes, find it. Find him.

[Julian]

Him.

[Brian Enten]

Remember that?

[Julian]

Yeah. Almost like they knew where he would have ended up.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah.

[Julian]

And it's also. But it's also like. So it's another sinister level because they had to know at that point, you know, he probably had offed himself.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah.

[Julian]

And it's like they know, obviously they completely up in this whole situation. It's hard to have empathy for them. But like, on a human level, like, imagine going in there knowing you're going to find the dead body of your son, who also now went out a murderer. It's like you want to talk about just a range of things going on in your head. I. I can't even fathom that.

[Brian Enten]

Totally. Yeah. And I tried to have that perspective a lot too. I mean, you know, people come, like you said. I mean, in a lot of ways, I look back at some of the stuff they knew and it's hard not to think that they're bad people in some ways. But then I talked to a lot of parents throughout the whole thing who are like, you know, when it's your own kid. Kid.

[Julian]

Yeah.

[Brian Enten]

And, you know, people do things for their. You know, when it's your own blood and I gotta talk to other parents, say I turn them in immediately. But a lot of people say, well, you know, it was my own kid. I don't know.

[Julian]

You know, you don't. A lot of people say. And I try to be really careful with this. It's a common line we can get caught using with anything serious. You'll say, if I were blank, then I would blank. And I'm a firm believer with most things you don't know.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah.

[Julian]

You know, it's not to say I would really like to think, and I'm not a parent yet, but I would really like to think that I would not have been as obstructive or just like straight up, like, offensive to people as his parents were, but from the perspective of like, also trying to protect your kid, assuming maybe also you actually have it in your head that despite all the evidence to the contrary, he really didn't do this because my kid would never. It's hard to imagine what your mind might make you do right, in that situation. And it's just. I mean, it's tragic that the story is just a. A complete and total tragedy. 360 degrees around it because of that.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah. And I don't wanna, I hate to skip around too much, but this just made me think of this because I covered the Charlie Kirk assassination and I went back to Utah last week and this kind of relates. I was talking to the sheriff there about Tyler Robinson, the suspect. His parents, remember, his parents turned him in and everything. And they were telling me how, you know, the parents turned him in. Okay. Turned their kid in, but now that the death penalty is on the table, they're not as cooperative. And it just got me thinking. It's like, you did the right thing and turned your kid in, but once your kid, once you may be executed by the state. Is that where you draw the line of like, I'm not going to assist you in killing my kid? These are all just weird, you know what I mean?

[Julian]

They're weird.

[Brian Enten]

They're weird, you know?

[Julian]

Yeah. Now we'll. I do want to come back to that case and give it the proper, you know, go through and not get too far off it. But I, I had spoken to a source and there's been a lot that's happened since that week, obviously that we'll have to talk about. But I had spoken to a source who had some pretty inside information just on like when he turned himself in and the whole bit. And I, I can't even imagine what that dad did. There's. What, I can't say this publicly, like what it was, but there was one piece of evidence, just like when they went to do it, I guess. Not evidence, but just something that really drove home the moral conundrum and just disbelief the father was in that just, you know, made me almost pull off the road and throw up because you can't even imagine that your kid would do it. And, and I think from what I was told, the dad, at least at that time, really did believe that, that his son had actually done this and, and perpetrated it and was wrestling with that. And I. It's hard as a human being to not have empathy for that because obviously he didn't pull a trigger or totally decide to do anything like that. But yeah, we'll, we'll come back to that because I do want to ask you about your reporting a little more specifically and give that the proper Light of day. But when. One of the big things that happened here was when the video with Gabby Petito was when the video of the police body cam got released, what was a couple days before she was actually murdered, where they had had this domestic dispute. They're pulled over on the side of the road. I forget where was that?

[Brian Enten]

Moab, Utah.

[Julian]

Moab, Utah. And the cops separated them for the night, had them stay in separate hotels, and didn't book either of them. But the way it came down afterwards was like they were more investigating her.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah.

[Julian]

For attacking him. Now, this is just kind of how I look at it. I'm not saying domestic violence doesn't happen from male, from female to male sometimes, but, like, let's just be honest. Biologically, physically, like, you know, a male can attack a female in a way that a female cannot attack a male. You know, watching that, I know it's hindsight 20 20, but when you first see that, are you, like me wondering, like, what the are the cops doing here? Why are they letting them anywhere near each other again?

[Brian Enten]

Yeah, and that was also, like, a big turning point in the story because, you know, we didn't know that he was, like, abusive or that there was even trouble in their relationship. No one was really saying that. There weren't, like, friends coming out of the woodwork saying, oh, you know, things were really bad. Like, we had no idea. And so when that video came out, and also we had only seen videos from. Of them from social media that were, like, beautiful. Like, oh, my God, like, I want to be friends with this couple. Like, they're amazing. So it was like, everything changed in that moment, because suddenly there was this other visual now that has come out that it was like, oh, my God, this is a whole different story. Like, there's something very bad that was going on, and we didn't know that. And when we saw the video, it was, like, immediately apparent. And I remember, like, people were other domestic violence victims. Women were immediately, like, drawn to that video, and they saw so many things that I didn't see, like, that as a woman who is a victim of domestic violence, like, they could immediately see things in that video and things she was saying and doing and trying to cover for him. And they. I remember just on social media, people were so quick. They were, like, going through the video and. And it all became different after that video.

[Julian]

What. What kinds of that you. You just mentioned, but, like, things that she was saying or what were some of the specific things that you were like, oh, my God, I wouldn't have seen that.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah.

[Julian]

We were pointing out, like, oh, it's right there.

[Brian Enten]

Just the way that she was trying to cover for him throughout the whole thing. The way that she started, like, blam, kind of like, victim, you know, blaming a little bit. I mean, if you watch the whole thing, I've gone through it with, like, experts before who can literally, like, go frame by frame almost. And. And it's become like a police training tool to now because they, you know, they did a whole report in Moab at their police department and, you know, acknowledged that they made all sorts of mistakes, things that they didn't recognize.

[Julian]

Yeah.

[Brian Enten]

And they could have arrested her, by the way.

[Julian]

That's what I'm saying. They were more like talking to her. But I actually, like, you okay, man? Yeah.

[Brian Enten]

But they. I mean, in some way, some, you know, at one point, she appeared to be the perpetrator. But it's like, then you almost wish they had arrested her, because that would have changed everything. If they arrested her, her parents would have, you know, probably found out. It all would have come crumbling down. Maybe they would have come out to get. You know what I mean? Like, some. I wish they would have done something instead of just basically separating them. Sending him to a hotel and. Which was also weird. You're in the middle. I've been to Moab. You're kind of in the middle of nowhere, Nowhere out there. They were right outside, like, one of those national parks. You send him to a hotel and, like, keep her with the van by herself. Like, that was kind of weird, you know?

[Julian]

Yeah. The whole thing was strange. I. I didn't. I'm not gonna lie and pretend. I had a ton of personal experience on how they deal with that type of situation where someone. Where two people are far away from home, too. But that did seem like there's got to be a better way to do it than that. When the cops take someone to the drunk tank or something.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah.

[Julian]

You know what I mean?

[Brian Enten]

When the cops felt terrible, by the way. Cause I. When I went out there, interviewed the chief and, you know, heard a lot, and they feel terrible. I mean, of course. I mean, it was, like, terrible. Like, some of them couldn't work anymore. I mean, this was like. They felt a lot of guilt.

[Julian]

Sure.

[Brian Enten]

And it's so easy to Monday morning quarterback those situations. And there are so many people that go through Moab because it's touristy and beautiful, and there's a lot of, you know, they. They could have never known that it was going to end up like this. So in A way I feel bad for the cops, too.

[Julian]

Yeah, no, I do. I do have empathy. There's a huge difference between being evil and making mistakes on your job, you know, and it doesn't surprise me that they feel guilt for that. But it wasn't like when you watch that whole thing, I forget how long it is, but it's not like two minutes. I mean, it lasts a little while when you watch the whole, the whole body cam, it's like they were trying to solve the problem. They just, just seem to have made poor calls on what the solutions were there to do that they weren't there to be like, all right, what the do we have here? They were trying to do their job. It's just obviously ended up in the most, in the most tragic way. For sure.

[Brian Enten]

That's right. Yeah, I agree with you.

[Julian]

So. And also, that's what really, if I remember correctly, that's what set off the media, the social media firestorm more than ever. Because now you had the image of the crying girl on the car. She still, when it came out, she still wasn't found at the time. And now people were like, oh my God, like, this is a domestic situation. They killed her. You've mentioned it a few times, but I think it's important to like, actually look at it from your perspective of what it was like being in the middle of it. But when you are dealing with this modern day social media machine of true crime fans, which can be fine, but also go way too far with things and, you know, personal investigators who decide to make it like their life's meaning to like, try to solve this for clicks and views, how do you deal with those? You know, because you're also like, you're feeding some of the machine righteously so with giving the story. But then you also want to figure out, like, okay, how do I, how can I play my role to not have like the worst type of people just try to capitalize.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah, it was weird, especially after the video came out because like a lot of social media people, true crime people, like true crime tourists, some of them call themselves, like, came out to the scene then and were also there every day and would, you know, walk the street. And, you know, I don't remember the bullhorns. Like, then they started to get, they'd come out with bullhorns, come out, come out. Laundries, we know they call them the dirty laundries. People started like having like flowers delivered to their house for Gabby, which became like a social media frenzy. So all day long, flowers would show up flower delivery. I mean, I'm talking constant. Every other minute would be a new flower delivery. And they basically covered the laundry's lawn with flowers. And then they started like the dirty laundry. So they'd put laundry baskets on the lawn. They'd show up. Cause I'd be out there in the middle of the night, they'd show up and they'd throw laundry baskets. So it got to be like, kind of crazy and like just, just too much, you know, and. And a lot of these people would stay out there all day and you kind of had to like. Because I was on the lawn, you kind of had to like coexist with them. And I've always struggled with this because it's like they, they usually aren't doing anything bad to me and I have to like, I have to stay out there all the time. So I don't want to really become their enemy, like, because they'll make my life miserable. I mean, they, they will, will. They'll turn on me, you know what I mean? They'll be behind me every time I'm doing a news report with a blowhorn or, you know. So I guess it's just. I don't know, I was always like, like I don't know how to handle. I'm gonna be nice to them sort of because I just want to kind of keep them at arm's length, you know.

[Julian]

Yeah. Those are the ones on the ground though, which I. And I remember I'm not gonna give some of at the time of day and give them attention, but I remember specifically some of those people. But you are also dealing with the people who are nowhere near this thing and are taking pieces of like what you report and a few other people report and like, you know, creating dark web conspiracies on the whole thing, which also, you know, when the. I will remember some of those things would get 2 million likes.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah.

[Julian]

On TikTok. And it's got to impede the investigation.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah, no, totally. It's frustrating. And they'll use clippets of your clips of your news stories and you know, use just a little clip to make it seem like one thing. And it's so raw, like what they're. And their theories are so wrong. You know what I mean? Mean, like, you just know it. You're like, I know the case this is, but I don't know that they really care. I think it's just like for clicks. And I think there's also like a segment of them that whatever is the truth, they'll do the opposite. Like, that's just their thing. Like, that's just what they do.

[Julian]

I think you're 1000% right about, you know, we live in it, especially post Covid, and I understand the genesis of this, but we live more and more in a world of automatic contrarianism. Whatever is said, therefore, the opposite must be true.

[Brian Enten]

Yes.

[Julian]

And I've said this to him blue in the face. I'm sure people are sick of it, but I always refer to, like, the universal law of physics. For every action, there's an equal but opposite reaction. I want to live in a society where those actions are like this, but we're living in a society where those actions are like this and it creates more violence to get to. No pun intended, but, you know, to get to an equilibrium point. And I think. Think when it's happening on things that aren't political. You know, Gabby Petito's a. A tragedy. It's. It's not like a politic. It's not supposed to be a political story or anything like that. Just shows you how far ranging that mentality is at every level of our culture now.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah. Yeah, no, totally. I've. I hadn't. I don't even know if, when I was covering Gabby Petito I thought of it that way, but I think now that I've done more of these cases, I realize I. I do think that's what people do. Whatever's happening. Let's say the opposite. And there'll be an audience for that.

[Julian]

Yep. How did you. Once they found her body and you knew now she. She was deceased and all signs pointed towards the now missing Brian Laundrie. Yeah. As the guy, like, you know, how did you still do your job without injecting opinion? And specifically, what I mean by that is, of course, it seemed very obvious that he had done it, but we didn't have custody, and there was a while where the cops didn't even officially say, like, he's our guy or whatever. And your job is to report the news and, you know.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah.

[Julian]

Be unbiased about it. How do you toe that line? When walks like a duck, quacks like a duck. It's probably a duck.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah. I think by that point, like, I was so. I was so tired by that point, I was invested. I remember I was doing this one live stream. It was late at night. It was dark. Everyone else was gone. A lot of times it was just me and Louise there because we were on the lawn and I was doing a live stream on, like, Twitter. And I Remember I was walking down the street in front of the laundry's house after they had found her body. And I remember, like, I was in flip flops and, like, gym shorts, and it was like a. I think it was a Friday or Thursday. And I just remember, like, it hit me. I was being. I had kind of crossed the line a little bit of just being, like, sad. I mean, of course it's okay to be sad about it, but, like, I remember thinking to my, like, what are you doing? Like, this isn't your job. Like, you've gone too far. And then I remember looking at myself, like, in my gym shirt, like, you know, it's okay to wear, but I'm just like, I'm in freaking gym shorts and flip flops. Like, I'm. You know, there's nothing wrong with. No, but I just mean, like, I don't know. That combined with, like, me feeling like I was getting too emotional. And I remember this moment of just, like, I think you're going crazy a little bit. Like, I think you're just tired and you got to go home for the weekend. So I remember that. And by. And by that time when she was found, I. I felt a little less of a need to. To, like, stay there. I mean, he had been found, she had been found. I mean, granted, I was still wondering if the parents were maybe going to get arrested or something, but I remember that was one of the first weekends I went home. It was just kind of like a. You need to, like, chill out a little bit, you know? Like, you. You're kind of, like, losing it, so. And I think I was also sad. I mean, I had gotten to know our family. I just became so invested. And then I went back. I remember went home for the weekend. I went back, and then it became like people were associating me with the lawn in the house and expecting me to be there every day, like, in case the parents got arrested. Like, there was, like, this almost pressure to stay there. And I remember after, like, another week or two went by, I remember telling Luis, like, like, at what point do we leave? Like, do we have to stay here? Like, I feel bad leaving, but I also feel like it was becoming a little like, you know, when do we cry again? Like, crossing the line a little. Like, okay, the parents aren't getting arrested. Like, when do we leave their lawn? You know?

[Julian]

Like, it's like, when does the story.

[Brian Enten]

And I remember people were, like, mad about it. They're like, you can't leave. Like, no, you have to stay because it's Almost like they wanted justice. And me leaving was like. I don't know, like, they felt like they weren't going to get justice or something. Is. You're not the judge. No, no. Yeah, right, Right.

[Julian]

I think that was just people's emotional attachment. Like, it becomes your. Literally. I used this phrase earlier, but it becomes your meaning of life.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah.

[Julian]

You're involved.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah. People be like, I have your notifications on. Like, every time I would go live from out there, like, they were so glued to it. And then it was kind of like, you know, well, I think it's. It's done, you know? Yeah.

[Julian]

That was where the News Daddy Brian thing was.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah. That's where the news Daddy. Right.

[Julian]

It's like, that's not. You're going to carry that around forever.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah.

[Julian]

It's a pretty hard nickname, you know? Yeah.

[Brian Enten]

It's not bad.

[Julian]

I guess you got a good cult following a female.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah. At first I felt kind of bad about him. Like. Like a daddy. I don't really know. But then I was like, I just kind of embraced it. I mean, I don't ever, like, really use it myself, but, like, at first I was, like, embarrassed.

[Julian]

Like, no, please, no, Sean, get that merch.

[Brian Enten]

And now I actually thought about, like, I don't know if I want to do it, but I thought, like, it would be. Be fun to have merch and, like, donate all the money to, like, the Gabby Petito foundation or something like that. But then I'd still have to be selling News Daddy stuff, which is kind of embarrassing. Yeah.

[Julian]

Yeah. But if it goes to, like, a good cause.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah. I mean. Yeah.

[Julian]

You gotta be here for it. Yeah. By the way, when you were living in the tent for weeks, effectively, like, where do you shower?

[Brian Enten]

Well, I had a hotel, so I had a Spring Hill Suites.

[Julian]

Okay.

[Brian Enten]

That was the closest thing. So we would go back to the hotel. Hotel and shower and, you know, it was more like just sort of our, like, home base.

[Julian]

You weren't like, you know, Tom Hanks and cast.

[Brian Enten]

No, no, no, no.

[Julian]

I was gonna say, like, you looked. You looked like you were ready to go every day.

[Brian Enten]

I wouldn't guess. And we could go. We also. They would let us in their house to use the bathroom to our friends. Yeah. Who were renting the lawn from.

[Julian]

That's nice.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah. And it's so funny. Like, they still live there, and I still stay in touch with them, and they. The laundry still live there, and they, like, they just hate each other. I mean, you know, they hate each other.

[Julian]

Wait, the laundry still have not moved.

[Brian Enten]

They haven't. No. Know, which is super weird to me.

[Julian]

That's. So.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah.

[Julian]

They gotta have no friends. I mean.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah, for a while I thought they weren't moving because, like, in. You know, they got sued by the petitos and that turned into a whole thing. And I'm like, well, maybe they're not moving because there's a law in Florida that, like, you can't take someone's house in a lawsuit. Like, I don't think every state has that. But in Florida, like, if you sue someone in Florida and you win, you still can't take their house. So I was like, well, maybe they're just staying there, like, just in case they lose. Like, they'll still have their house.

[Julian]

House.

[Brian Enten]

But now that's over with and they still haven't left.

[Julian]

Did they settle that case?

[Brian Enten]

They did.

[Julian]

Out of court?

[Brian Enten]

Yeah, they settled out of court. But, like, a lot came. That's where we found out about them hiring the lawyer early on. And the burn, you know, burn after reading letter. All these weird things that all came out through the lawsuit, which I think is what the petitos wanted. Like, that was their. That was their. I mean, I don't think the laundry's have a ton of money. So the main point was just to, like, make them confess all this stuff.

[Julian]

Yeah, that was. I'm glad you brought that up actually, though, because we were talking about, oh, how would you handle the situation? Whatever. One of the really dangerous, damning things that I can say goes well beyond what I would ever do as a parent in that situation was when that letter from the mom, the burn after reading letter came out where she. I believe the line in there literally was, I don't care if. If you killed someone, I would cover for you.

[Brian Enten]

Or something about putting like a knife and a cake. And there was just really weird.

[Julian]

Very strange, strange, you know, so that whole dynamic was off. But that's crazy, crazy that they still live there.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah, I know. And I still. Like I said, I still talk to Keith and Debbie and they, hey, Keith. Yeah. Hope you're watching. And sometimes we'll actually go by, like, I saw them maybe like a. Maybe like a six months ago, a year actually was a. It was pretty recently. I was driving through there for another story, like that part of Florida, and we just swung by to say hi to them. And like, they're just, like, so nice. But they're always like, they didn't like the laundries before. Cause again, they have two pugs. And I guess the laundries didn't like the dogs, which, like, who doesn't? Like two pugs.

[Julian]

Yeah.

[Brian Enten]

So, like, they kind of had a weird thing before this, but now it's like, you know, the whole neighborhood's kind of turned on them.

[Julian]

Yeah. Just imagine going out for your. Well, they don't do newspapers anymore, but you're going out to get your mail. Just, like, staring each other down.

[Brian Enten]

I know.

[Julian]

Awkward.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah. I did notice they put a big hedge up in front now. The laundries did. They didn't have, like, a hedge before.

[Julian]

So I guess they learn from the first time around. I guess there's a second.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah. Oh, God, yeah.

[Julian]

Yeah.

[Brian Enten]

Let's.

[Julian]

Let's hope not. Not. But when. When. When Gabby was found, and then I guess it was within a few days they found Brian's body and it was clear what had happened here. You know, you're. You've been talking with the parents this whole time. Like, you said, she had this amazing family and extended family and all that. Obviously, they're devastated. Obviously, we saw that publicly. They went and talked at these press conferences about it and everything. But, like, you know, what's. What's that like talking with someone where you've become close to them during a story where you're hoping you're going to be able to find their missing loved one? And now the worst has happened, so they have closure, I guess, but they don't have. Whatever that even means. But they. The. The worst possible outcome has now happened.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah, I mean, it's hard usually. I honestly just try to, like, back off at that point for a while. You know what I mean? It's kind of like, what am I going to do at that point? You know, I'll usually send a text or like a call. One, maybe one call. I'm so sorry. You know, and then it's weird now that I've covered, like, more of these kinds of things and they're all different, but, like, you know, tragedies like this, it's weird how, like, when you do one now, it's almost like you can. You can see what it's gonna be like for these parents even before they know. Because I've seen it with the other cases. You know what I mean? Which is a really weird feeling. Feeling.

[Julian]

Yeah.

[Brian Enten]

And sometimes I'll connect people with Gabby Petito's parents, like, oh, wow. Yeah. Like, I've done that, like, two times where I'm like, you know, let me put you in touch with, you know, because everybody knows Gabby Petito. So I'll be like, you remember the Gabby Petito case? And they're like, yeah. And I'm like, I covered that case. I'm like, would you want me to put you in touch? Like, maybe for, like, if it's a new mom that I'm talking to, just lost a kid or something. Something. I'm like, do you want me to put you in touch with Gabby's mom? And Gabby's mom has always been cool with that, so I don't even have to ask her anymore. And I'll give them her cell phone number because it's like, they can. They're, like, in this weird club that no one else can understand. Like, yeah. Especially with all the media attention. I'm like, if you need help navigating all this, like, you know, and then I'll. They'll. They'll talk to them.

[Julian]

Good for them.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah.

[Julian]

Doing that.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah. They'll do it every time.

[Julian]

That's amazing.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah.

[Julian]

You know, again, I don't know how I deal with this kind of thing, but you might think that, you know, after something like that has happened, you go through this whole thing, you just. You don't want to ever be around that. It's got to be traumatic to be around that. But for them to, like, I don't know, pay that forward or however you would say it, to help other people.

[Brian Enten]

Indeed.

[Julian]

That's. They really are amazing people.

[Brian Enten]

They are. And I just interviewed them. I interviewed Gabby's mom and stepmom, Tara, maybe, like, a month ago. And because it had been, like. I think it had been four years or. Yeah. And, you know, I talked to them so much in between and connected them with people and talked about their foundation and all sorts of, like, kind of business. Not businessy, but, like, you know, not things about Gabby, just like, oh, can you talk to this family? Or they would. They'll also reach out to me because they'll. People will come to them with missing cases, and then they'll be like, hey, can you cover this case? It's not getting any coverage, Bridge. But then when I did the interview with them, like, a month ago about Gabby, I kind of forgot. Like, I mean, I was even guilty of it. Like we said earlier, people forget how real it is. Like, they were emotional again, and I'm like, oh, my God. Like, I forgot. Like, this is still, like, so real. This is still. This is still their daughter. Like, you know what I mean?

[Julian]

Oh, of course. You never. Yeah, that's the. I think that's the one most unfathomable thing. Thing is, is Burying your kid.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah. And you forget because they are so strong in public and they're so on the phone and blah. But then I was like, oh, my God, Like, I gotta remember. Like, this is still. This is still raw in a lot of ways.

[Julian]

Yeah. And they had the support of, like, an entire nation at the time. Whatever. And just like you said, you feeling weird about leaving the tent because the story is mostly happening is what it is, and your job is done. You know, when. Whenever someone dies, it's like, if you're lucky and you have a lot of loved ones, people are there for you, and then the next week, life goes on. It's a very strange.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah.

[Julian]

Thing. But, you know, for them to go from that to that, you know, as far as public support and. Right. And things like that goes. Because the. The world goes on. I. I can't imagine that. And, you know, it's always gonna. It's always a hole there that can never be filled in any way. And that's why I. I'm not envious of the job you have to do on a lot of these cases because you, you know, I know you're a news guy and, like, you have a job to do and all that, but it's very clear talking with you today. And I really kind of knew this before you came here. It was pretty obvious, like, there are pieces of this you always take home. Because, yeah, of course, these are real people involved. You get tight with them, you know, in some cases, and then you're like, damn. You know, and just like you said, you talk to them four years later, and it hits you again, like, wow, their daughter's gone.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah.

[Julian]

What do you even say? Say.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah. No, it's. It's true. You gotta. And it's like, you gotta remind yourself of that a lot.

[Julian]

Yeah.

[Brian Enten]

Because it's easy to. A lot of people out there will take advantage of these families because they go from being just regular people to thrust in the limelight with everybody wanting a piece of them. And, you know, people will just sort of, you know, take advantage of them, for sure.

[Julian]

It's also like, you get strange characters in the middle of it, like the lawyers and stuff who do have a job to do.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah.

[Julian]

By the way, their job is to give the constitutional right for someone's defense. So I. I empathize with that. But then. And you know, in the middle of, like, someone being missing, the tactics that are used are strange. And it's like, what's the moral boundary there? It's just. It's just. It's almost too. Too much for me.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah.

[Julian]

Try to process.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah. And there's people that suddenly show up, you know, not with the petitos at all, but, like, some of the cases, you know, there'll be like, some extended family member that shows up that suddenly the family spokesperson, you're kind of like. And they're always wanting to go on, and then they create the gofundme. And there's a whole kind of weird, weird dark side for sure, to all of this that sometimes comes out for sure, that you kind of see over and over again. And you're like, you know, last question on.

[Julian]

On the Gabby thing, just because we mentioned it a little earlier. And it's an interesting, like, I don't know, Monday morning quarterback thing of looking at it. But how, like, as someone who sees how big this story got, literally from the inside, how do you look at it when you have a case like this where there's one very innocent life taken and it becomes a phenomenon and everyone's trying to solve it and they support the family and there's, you know, there's also love that comes out of a very tragic situation when in fact, there are, like, I was saying, there are many other cases to happen every day where people don't get that attention.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah.

[Julian]

You know, because part of it is, let's be honest, like, what can the news story sell? What's going to get people's attention if someone gets lost in the hood where a hundred people get lost in the hood all the time.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah.

[Julian]

You know, oh, we can't sell that. But if some girl from suburbia who is, you know, a beautiful social media influencer.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah.

[Julian]

Or at that time, aspiring social media influencer disappears, everything stops. Like, how do you, I don't know, morally weigh that? You know what I mean?

[Brian Enten]

Yeah, totally. Yeah. I had never heard of, like, missing white girl syndrome, I think they call it. Like, people started talking about that, like, oh, you guys only care about, like, if they're pretty white girl, basically. You know, and, you know, that started popping up during the case, but I was so into it at that point. I was just like, I don't have time to even think about it. You know what I mean? Like, I was obviously doing that, but when it was over, I remember we started thinking about it and talking about it. And again, News Nation was really new and it did bother me, and it kind of felt like, what defense do I have to this? Like, first of all, I had never covered, like, missing people before. It was kind of my first reality, you Know, but I'm, like, moving forward. Like, I almost felt, like, guilty. And so did I Remember Gabby's parents started talking about it, too. Like, and so I remember I went to my bosses, along with a producer I work with, Paige, and we were like, we need to do something. And we started this missing series because of the Gabby Petito story on News Nation. It started out, we used to call it Missing in America, and apparently that was like. Like someone else already had that name. We did it for a while. Then they're like, you need to change the name right away. So now it's called Missing.

[Julian]

That's your fault.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Julian]

So.

[Brian Enten]

But we do a case every week, sometimes more. And we focus a lot on. On minorities. You know, we do white women, too, but minorities, also men. There's a ton of missing men that just never get coverage because no one cares about a missing man, you know, and so we. I don't know how many hundred hundreds of cases we've done by now, but, I mean, literally every week, Marnie Hughes on News Nation does it. And so that was born out of the Gabby Petito story. Yeah. So that's a nice. Like, I mean, there's still more we could do, but at least you don't feel like you just turned a blind eye to that. And we've had success stories, too. You know, we've had people found.

[Julian]

Oh, you've had people found from that?

[Brian Enten]

Yeah. And it's hard to say if it's, like, because of our series, but definitely helps. Definitely helps also, even if it just.

[Julian]

Like, gets law enforcement. Be like, we should look at that one again.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah.

[Julian]

You know, just gets the wheels turning.

[Brian Enten]

Totally. Yeah. And we do a lot of old cases, too. So you call up a lot, like you said. You call them up and you're like, we're doing. Then I think it kind of, you know, makes them feel a little more pressure.

[Julian]

Yeah.

[Brian Enten]

And our bosses, like, kudos to them because, you know, there's so much news in the world now, it'd be easy for them to be like, well, let's put the missing series aside for. But, like, we've done it every single week since Gabby Petito.

[Julian]

That's great, too, because it's also, like, there's a responsibility there. And, like, like you said, this was at the beginning of the very beginning of News Nation existing. It's one of the things that. That put them on the map. So totally paying it forward that way, I think, is. I think it's great. It's a strange situation to be in because you don't control where people's attention is. But it's also like, if something bad has happened and people have attention there, you're going to report on it. Yeah. You know, that's just how it is.

[Brian Enten]

Totally.

[Julian]

You know, something like that is. Is really helpful. But like we were saying, you cover a lot of different things. You're on the scene, seen all the time.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah.

[Julian]

Like, this is like our third try trying to do this because it's like, you know, you're sitting in here and I'm like, oh, good, someone didn't die.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah.

[Julian]

You know, because you're always going to where it is. But you have been out, as you said, looking at the Charlie Kirk thing. I do want to say, before I ask you about this, it's a bizarre case. There is all kinds of like. I don't even know what to call it online with people speculating about this. It is certainly weird. It has been weird, weird since the beginning. I try to be very careful with, like, where we go with this, discussing it publicly. So just like download if, if you can. Were you there the day after? Or like, how.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah, I was there the day of. After it happened. Yeah, I was in New Mexico interviewing the governor of New Mexico. I was in her office doing a story about. She's a Democrat, a tough on crime Democrat. She called the National Guard. I won't go on a whole tangent, but she called the National Guard in herself. You know how everybody's in these other Democratic cities are mad the National Guard's coming. She did it herself because crime was so bad in New Mexico. So I was interviewing her about that just because it was interesting. Like, so you're the Democrat who likes the National Guard. You know what I mean? And so it's an interesting story. So I was in Santa Fe, New Mexico, in her office, and she had CNN on when the video started coming up that he was killed. I think at that point. Not killed, but just, you know, that had been shot.

[Julian]

You saw the shot.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You kind of knew and it was interesting. She was actually, actually she's, she's a Democrat, but she's friends with the Utah governor and she called the Utah governor right. While I was in the office and was like, I just want to let you know, I, I saw this happen in Utah and I, I'm thinking of you right now, which is kind of a cool moment of like, you don't see that stuff on TV where.

[Julian]

Yeah.

[Brian Enten]

You just think they all hate each other. You know what I mean? And she's friends with them. They were in some like, governor's conference together or something. So what do you.

[Julian]

What did you think when you first saw that? Like, Brave New World?

[Brian Enten]

I think I just thought. And I fir. I think honestly, just to be totally. I was like, I gotta get out of the governor's office. Like, we gotta go to Utah. Like, that's what my first thought was like, just. Cause you know, when you're. I mean, she's. We were doing the interview and I was just like. I was trying to be polite, but in my head I was like, we gotta get like the F out of here. You know what I mean? Like, how are we getting to Utah? So luckily there was a flight from Albuquerque nonstop to Salt Lake. So I was there, like. Like I got there. I think I got there like right after the sunset, like that night. Yeah.

[Julian]

Tyler Robinson is arrested two days later or something like that. This happened on Wednesday. He's arrested the night of Thursday into Friday. And it was basically like announced by Trump without saying the name, I guess, on Friday morning on. On the tv.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah.

[Julian]

When he's first taken into custody and the President has said, you know, his father saw him and recognized him and turned him in. You know, where was your head at that point? Like, okay, sounds about right. Or.

[Ad/Host]

Yeah.

[Brian Enten]

So I had. I was out there again, working late nights and stuff, staying out there. And I had a source the night before who kind of told me like around midnight that they thought they had the guy, but I didn't have enough information to go on it at all. Like, and it's interesting, some of the other reporters that I know from other national networks who were there that I'm friends with were kind of getting the same information, but none of us were reporting it just because, like, something like that, you're not going to report it unless you're like, you got to have sources and be a hundred percent. But there were definitely rumblings like this was coming to an end. And then when it was Tyler Robinson, what did I think? I was just like, surprised, I guess, that it was just a normal guy, like a normal kid. Kid.

[Julian]

I think.

[Brian Enten]

You know what I mean? I think I was thinking it was going to be like someone. When I say normal kid, just. I guess I. I don't know, maybe I was. Think it was going to be like a more organized thing or something, you know?

[Julian]

Yeah. Cuz like, it was almost like the tone was. All right. Yep, there it is. We got it.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah.

[Julian]

And then that's where it got weird because first of all there's video of the crime scene immediately being tampered with right afterward, which is weird. Now I know it's a chaotic situation. All the cops like ran and went with his body. Totally understandable. But you know, there's people putting stuff in their pockets. There's a couple cops left behind that are like letting people video right there for a while and then being like, oh, you should leave. And then within days they're paving over this whole area and changing the whole.

[Brian Enten]

That was interesting. And I noticed that when we were out there, that was. They were like immediately like there were like backhoes and stuff. And I was just back there last week and went back to the spot and it does look like they just, you know, put new pavers in that area. But yeah, that was kind of strange that they did that quickly.

[Julian]

Have you ever seen anything like that?

[Ad/Host]

That.

[Brian Enten]

No. Well, no. I mean, it was kind of weird. You remember they tore down the house for coburger? Yes, that was also weird. I mean that wasn't like the day after, but that was kind of another weird. Like, why are we tearing down the house when there hasn't been a trial? But no, it was. I remember wondering what they were doing too. Like I didn't understand. And I mean, I don't want to add to the conspiracy theories, but even when I went back last week, I was left like, wow, that was a lot of like construction equipment for just. It didn't look like they really ended up doing that much. It was just kind of like they replaced the pavers and concrete in one area.

[Julian]

Yeah, it just like if it's not some sort of conspiracy thing, some of the things, the actions that have been taken since then are just horrible PR decisions because they feed all these things. And you know, the 3006 bullet thing, I am not a ballistic sector expert, to be clear. I want to be very clear on that. But I know a lot of guys who are and they're like, you know, I'm going to have someone in here in, in a month or two who's going to go through this who's a full blown expert. And it's like a 3006 bullet from 200 yards is going to blow the top half of someone's body off. Now obviously it was a violent hit, but his head didn't come off. It hit the carotid artery and a couple other in there as well. But like everything else was intact.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah.

[Julian]

And so right away when they're telling us that it's weird and then they found the gun, you know, like right below there.

[Brian Enten]

And the wood, the bushes, sort of a wooded area. Yeah, yeah.

[Julian]

It's like, how did he get it off there that easily? And the lack of transparency on the investigation hasn't helped. Especially after, like, you know, I guess it was. It was Charlie's producer, the guy, Andrew Colvett, who was like his right hand man. You know, he sends out this tweet where he's like, I spoke with the surgeon and he said, Charlie's neck was like Superman. You know, the bullet somehow didn't go through. With anyone else, it would have gone through. It's like the magic bullet all over again. It's like, by the way, even if for some godforsaken reason that were true, before you press send, count to five and just read that one and say, how's this? How's this gonna play? You know what I mean? Like, voluntarily did that and.

[Brian Enten]

I don't know. I mean, like you said, I gotta be careful. You have to be care. I don't know. I went there last week and I sat down with the sheriff and the undersheriff of Utah county, who are part of the investigation since the beginning. You know, they're the local guys, the cowboy hats, good guys. I like them. And they went on camera with me, which haven't done a lot of interviews. And they do not think this is a conspiracy. And they know everything. And they're like, look, if you don't trust the FBI, if you think, don't try. They're like, we're just. I mean, they're just two local guys. Everybody knows them in town. The one guy used to be sheriff, and now he's the other sheriff. Then there's the new sheriff, who's been like, Sheriff for like 10 years.

[Julian]

Why wasn't there an autopsy? That's what I want to know.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah. I don't know.

[Julian]

They didn't have an answer for that.

[Brian Enten]

No. Did you see. Have you. Do you know how he got on the roof?

[Julian]

I don't.

[Brian Enten]

Look up. If you can pull it up, pull up my Twitter. This is kind of interesting. I. I did a video, so I wasn't able to get up on the roof the first time I went. But now it's all been. It's all been opened up, you know, this last week I was able to get up there, but. Oh, yeah, there you go. Yeah. Yeah, that's it.

[Julian]

Okay, so let me give this a little volume, Brian.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah. I mean, you don't have to. You, however, it's just me talking. Able to get the shot off. So this is my first time actually seeing the roof where Tyler Robinson, according to police, was able to get the shot off. This is. Was all closed off, obviously, when I was here last. They've got this fence up now, but you can still get pretty close. And so it appears he went beyond this fence, which wasn't here. And then all you had to do was jump over this little railing here and then walk out onto the roof. And then on the other edge of the roof is where you could see the courtyard. But I guess before I saw this, I thought, like, he had to go some sneak way to get up here. And there's just. You see this. This is just a big open walkway, like where students walk back and forth between the buildings. I presume he just came up here, walk to the edge here. And then again, then this fence wasn't here. And you could literally just pop over that. That other railing and then boom, you're out on the roof. Walk a little bit. And you would have a. A clear view to the. To the courtyard. In that surveillance video, when you see him leaving and running away across the roof, that's this area over here. And then he jumped off over in that area over there. He jumped again. You've. You can recognize that from the surveillance video. And then ran across the parking lot here. And. And then he went over into the wooded area over there, which is where they found the gun. That's about as close as I was able to get last time I was here. But it's really interesting seeing it from this perspective again. The thing that surprises me the most is just how easy it was for him to get on the roof. Yeah. I guess I thought he had to, like, climb up. Up on the roof or something. And for. For him to. For there to be that event there and for it to be that easy to get on the roof really surprised me.

[Julian]

Yeah. That I didn't. I didn't realize there was like, a walkway right there too. That. That makes a lot of sense for him to be able to, like, get away pretty quickly as well.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah.

[Julian]

Because there is a surveillance video now. I, I do. I. I think it's all blending together. I think they. It literally you see him, like, climb onto the ledge and then hop.

[Brian Enten]

Hop down. Yeah. And then. And it's hard. And it's hard because he kind of drops something that is apparently the gun first. But you. It's blurry. That. That's one of the big things that I was asking the sheriff about. Like, can you say for sure. That you can't fully see the gun.

[Julian]

Yeah.

[Brian Enten]

And, you know, it's a rifle and it wouldn't fit in a backpack even if you took it apart. I actually did a story. It would still. That's the part that I'm a little like. And he's like, no, you can't see it easily, but it is there. And he dropped it. And you do. It looks like you dropped something. But you can't fully see it in the video.

[Julian]

Right. What. What did they say? I'll come back to the autopsy.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah.

[Julian]

There's a lot of other things before that. What. What do they say about the. The bullet and, you know, the argument about whether or not that bullet could have ever left that little of damage.

[Brian Enten]

They think that it's possible that it's not, you know, didn't ring any alarm bells to them.

[Julian]

That's interesting.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Julian]

I really got a hat. Like, when I have my one guy in here, that's where I'd rather. I don't want to comment on that myself.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah, I don't. The thing with the conspiracy thing to me is like. And again, I don't know. I mean, that's the way I go into this. I mean, I wouldn't be up on the roof looking around if I wasn't trying to, you know, so I'm not saying people are wrong when they think that or. Right. I don't know. This is just the way I think about it. You know, I've talked to the sheriffs. You've got Cash Patel. There are so many layers. You've got the campus police. Like, if it's a conspiracy, like, is everybody lying? Or like, is it. Who's. Who's pulling.

[Ad/Host]

Who's.

[Brian Enten]

Who's pulling the strings here? You know, I don't think it would.

[Julian]

Have to be that way. I think a lot of, you know, first of all, people call every single thing that ever happened in conspiracy now. And I think that actually hurts, you know, hiding real conspiracies because, like, that is not the case. There are plenty of things where, you know, whether you like it or not, it's not a conspiracy. It's just like bad people did bad or. Or, you know, people were careless or something like that. But then there are. There are the real ones and there's some where. When you look at something like this, when you can create a, you know, to use the joker term, chaos, like in the middle of everything where people don't know it's coming. Every. Even though people have their phones up, people are Jumping around like this, creating different angles, different perspectives, illusions, if you will. I use that word very deliberately there. It gives room for a lot of people say in positions of authority, whether that be campus police, regular police, sheriffs, to not have anything to do with it, legitimately not be in on it, not even have an inkling about it. But just because of the shock factor of what happened, all the little teeny things that three or four people were in on, you don't notice it or it looks like it could be something else, you know, that's why I do think people jump into conclusions with watching people reacting is going to too far.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah.

[Julian]

Because you, people react in all different ways. You know, there's people who freeze.

[Brian Enten]

But it's, it's a state case. That's the other thing. I mean, the FBI is investigating help with it. But it's state charges. I mean it's a, it's a local prosecutor.

[Julian]

Right.

[Brian Enten]

I, I just, I don't know. It's, it's Utah where they're kind of like, I don't know, like again, these sheriffs were kind of like. I just got the vibe like they wouldn't be afraid to be like. Like they would want to tell their people the truth. You know what I mean? They're kind of like on their own out there. They don't really care about the feds, you know what I mean? Like, I feel like they're annoyed by the feds.

[Julian]

Yeah.

[Brian Enten]

So I just, I don't know. But I wouldn't someone be sounding the alarm from inside law, you know, why, why would they be in on it? Why would the local prosecutor be in on.

[Julian]

I don't think they would be. Yeah, that's my point. I don't think those guys would be. What I do want to know. This is where it gets more to how they've been in dealing with the case after the fact is what the details here are here of his lack of cooperation because Tyler Robinson turned himself in, which by all accounts, that's how it went down. That's what my guy, My guy like broke down exactly how it happened and that appears to be what it was. And then suddenly, you know, the governor comes out and says, but he's not cooperating. That was a little weird. Is it just when you talk to these guys, were they saying like you, you know, he's a killer. That had to change a heart on admitting guilt because the death penalties there.

[Brian Enten]

Well, maybe they didn't. So they were careful about some things they would say. I mean, it's an ongoing case. So like there were some things they weren't going to talk about, like him and stuff. I mean, he's in their jail and they told me he's getting a lot of letters and stuff, which was kind of, I guess, not a surprise. But in terms of specifics, they wouldn't go there, but it would make sense. I mean, once you get a lawyer, they're going to tell you not to talk anymore. I mean, if he gave the confession with his dad and the family friend, you know, once he got in, you know that, that part doesn't. I don't think is that weird that he stopped talking. Also once you realize like they're trying. Also once you realize these people are trying to kill me.

[Julian]

Right. But like he knew, he knew he'd be facing that when he turned himself in.

[Brian Enten]

Probably. But you think you really thought all of that through?

[Julian]

I want to be careful because I don't want to say like what my guy said. Yeah, I'll. I'll say this. The way, the way he was described to me was dead to the world.

[Brian Enten]

Interesting.

[Julian]

Dead to the world. And there was a very clear piece of. Of evidence on that, which is not how the father was described. The father was described as emotionally completely distraught.

[Brian Enten]

And when you say he was described as dead to the world, Tyler Robinson, lights are on.

[Julian]

Nobody's home.

[Brian Enten]

Like he was given something to be dead to the world.

[Julian]

No, no, they didn't say that.

[Brian Enten]

Okay.

[Julian]

I mean, I mean that's a whole nother wire maybe, but.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah, that's not.

[Julian]

What more like, you know, people that give you a thousand yard stare and they're just not there. Yeah, that's.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah, yeah. Well, people also, you know, I've seen it. People have psychotic breaks.

[Julian]

Yes.

[Brian Enten]

I mean, you've just done something that is crazy. I mean, I don't know. You know what I mean?

[Julian]

Yeah.

[Brian Enten]

But yeah, I mean, look, like I said, I don't know. The text messages are weird, obviously. Which the sheriff acknowledged to me. You know, the text messages between him and the.

[Julian]

You're taking the words out of my mouth. I was going to ask you what you think thought of those. Sounded like.

[Brian Enten]

I guess I just wanted to say I'm not trying, I don't know, like I'm not trying to make the point one way or the other. It's.

[Julian]

You know that Steve Buscemi meme where he's dressed like a kid and he's like, hello there, fellow children.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah.

[Julian]

That was the vibes I got from.

[Brian Enten]

Very weird.

[Julian]

Right.

[Brian Enten]

And even the Sheriff admitted that to me.

[Julian]

I appreciate that.

[Brian Enten]

You know, he's like, yeah, you know.

[Julian]

So how does he explain, like, in.

[Brian Enten]

Admitting that, like, how does he explain he doesn't know? I mean, he's like, they talk. They. They talk to each other with strange. Strangely, you know, and also the. You know, the roommate slash lover, you know, where is gone. We don't know where. Maybe witness protection program. Yeah. So that's.

[Julian]

Don't you think, like, a little transparency, not saying, like, oh, he's in our witness protection program, but be like, don't you think you could come on a press conference and be like, by the way, we know exactly. We're talking with him. We know exactly.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah. Well, they've made clear since the very beginning that he is not a person of interest. And they kind of went out of their way from the very beginning to say that over and over again, which makes me think that he's, like, very cooperative and they are kind of trying to protect him.

[Julian]

But also, how do you say that when he's on these texts? You know, in my opinion, when you read the transcript of the text, not, like, admitting or in any way that he was a part of planning it. He does seem to be like, oh, you did this. But, yeah, there's also an aspect of, like, you could be saying, like, oh, you mean you did this? I'm gonna write that.

[Brian Enten]

But also, like, they dress up in these, like, furry costumes. I mean, like, it's kind of like we're trying to. I don't know how to understand these people. Like, you know what I mean?

[Julian]

It's strange.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah. Like, they might just be really weird.

[Julian]

That is certainly, you know, certainly a possibility. And I. And I appreciate you looking at this through the lens of, like. Yeah, because it's also, like, a brave thing to do in today's society where everyone wants to run to the worst of, worst case possible. Like, craziest scenario. Looking through to the lens of, like, all right, what are the best. Who am I talking with? What are the best facts I can get? You know, as the story changes, I'll change. But you really got to show me stuff that's more than, like, look at that guy doing.

[Brian Enten]

This is one of those stories where, for me, I feel like my role is, like, I will get, like, I put out the interview with the sheriff, got it on video, put it out, went up on the roof. Like, I will put out what I can find out, but I'm not, like, you can do with that what you want. Right. You know what I mean? Like, I don't. I'm not going to tell you. Innocent until proven guilty with Tyler Robinson. Like, you know what I mean? There's certain cases where it's like, I feel like I'm trying to show people, like, the outcome or the reason or who's responsible. But, like, with this one, it's like, I'm just going to give you the information and people can decide how they want. You know what I mean?

[Julian]

I think that's very smart.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah. And also, he's not been. I mean, he's going to go to trial probably. Like, it's not my job. Job to say this guy's guilty right now. That's not the way our system works.

[Julian]

That's correct.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah.

[Julian]

Yeah. Like, you're. You're doing it, like, by the book.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Julian]

I appreciate that.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah.

[Julian]

Because it, like, God damn the amount of, you know, whether it's purposeful or un purposeful, but, like, jumping to conclusion as evidence.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah.

[Julian]

Which I would describe as, like, it will probably end up being misinformation around this. There's a lot of that, and it's very hard for me to keep track of all of it. I'm not even gonna. There was one thread I was looking at yesterday, and I'm like, what proof? And it was trending like crazy on this case. I'm like, what proof is there of that, though? It just sounds like people are looking at a guy's face, you know, and.

[Brian Enten]

It was bad, too. Like, just when I got there and when Cash Patel first put out that tweet. Remember when he first. I mean, this whole thing got started off a little messy. When you're dealing with the kind of things that is. Clearly people are going to be on edge and there's going to be conspiracies. Like, you got to be really careful. That wasn't a good start.

[Julian]

I appreciate trying to be transparent.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah.

[Julian]

But you have to make, in my opinion, a call between do I want to be the chief tweeter or do I want to be the chief of the FBI? You know, and like, the way he even worded that, my friend Ken Kippenstein actually shout out to him, spotted this right away. It was like an hour or two after. After the shooting. Remember, like the George Zinn thing at the beginning, they're like, we have a suspect in. In custody. He used the word subject instead of suspect. But to the average person, it was like a quick announcement, like running to the. Running to the tweet going, look, we got someone. FBI's on this. Whatever And Ken was like, they said subject not suspect. So now, you know, he had to quietly, two hours later be like, oh, that person's been cleared. It's like, dude, you know, you don't have to give me. I appreciate it. You don't have to give me a play by play when you don't actually have information yet.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah.

[Julian]

Which the George Zinn thing was kind of weird because that guy apparently just goes to like political events.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah. He's just a whack job, it sounds like.

[Julian]

Right. And then they got him on like cp.

[Brian Enten]

It's like child porn or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Julian]

So that, that part's like a little weird, but he has a 25 year track record of being.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah. Oh, they said he shows up at the city council meetings. He's like just like the. Everybody seems to know that he's just like the crazy person in town. That was the vibe that I got.

[Julian]

Right. So that's, that's what the sheriffs, I guess, kind of.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah.

[Julian]

Over to you as well.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah.

[Julian]

So he's not a suspect in relation to the case in any way at this point?

[Brian Enten]

Not from anything I've seen, no.

[Julian]

Okay.

[Brian Enten]

No.

[Julian]

Now I, I got on the phone with Joseph Scott Morgan three days after this, who's been on my show three, three, four times before. Great guy. He's. He's the death investigator. He's the guy you want to know about forensics, you want to know about the process in any state. He's going to walk you through it like it's a Tom Clancy novel.

[Brian Enten]

Of course.

[Julian]

But one of the things that was a little weird to me at first was I think, so he's killed on Wednesday. And then Friday, social media posts went out. Some of those posts like show his wife with the casket and all that. And you can deduce from previously seen news video that those pictures that taken with her around the casket were taken around midday on Thursday. So really less than 24 hours after he had been killed. And what's clear, looking at what they showed in the body is that he had been embalmed and he's in a casket. So I was like, is that a little weird that a guy was killed less than 24 hours before and his body's already embalmed and prepared for transport. So before I, like said anything, I call up Joseph and I said, am I crazy? And he said, no, you're not crazy crazy, but here's why it works. And he proceeded to walk me through like hour by hour, the Utah system of, you know, Possession of a body for an investigation afterwards. And he was like, I can't tell you the exact hour it would have been in Salt Lake City, which is apparently where they do all of the autopsies and full blown breakdowns after a murder has occurred in state. But he's like, it would have been somewhere between say 9pm and 11pm local time. If he was killed at 12:30pm local time and pronounced dead by 2pm local time, they would have gotten the body to Salt Lake City. At that point. He named me every person that would have been in the room, literally by name, like he knew some of them and what the legal requirements were. He walked me through exactly how they would have done the autopsy, which I will up if I try to explain. But it involved like where they put specific tools into areas of entry with the bullet, go through charting stuff. And he's. And I'm like, how long does it that take? And he's like, few hours, you know, to they for a case like that. He knew exactly where the bullet had gone. And he's like, this is what they would have had to do it. They would have had it done. He's like by like mid we hours of the morning. Which means he's like, do you understand how funeral parlors work? I'm like, no, Joseph, I really don't. He's like, okay, so they have a, the family gets a funeral parlor in Arizona where they're from. And funeral parlors work like florists in a lot of cases. So if someone's in another state, a florist can call another florist and say what they're going to need to prepare something ahead of time. So he's like, their local funeral parlor would have called the local one in Utah and said, here's what we need just to prepare the body initially before you get it here. It would have been within their possession by wee hours of the morning. They would have had that done in a few hours and it would be ready for transport, which all once he broke this was like 33 minutes of him.

[Brian Enten]

It made sense.

[Julian]

And I was like, okay, great, I appreciate the explanation. Then they come out two weeks later and they're like, oh, there was no autopsy. And I haven't had a chance to have a full conversation, but I'm like, that's kind of weird, right? He's like, yeah, it's a little weird. I mean we all saw him get killed on camera. You can see.

[Brian Enten]

Well, that's what I was wondering. Is there a need for an autopsy? Though when you, when you know what exactly what happened.

[Julian]

But the video that's taken is taken in like 720p on an iPhone, the best one was taken, you know, 30ft away or whatever, you would think. And then the body goes down right away. You would think, think you would still want to know the exact angle so that you could.

[Brian Enten]

Or maybe do you think the family was pushing not to have an autopsy? Like, hey, we know what happened. Let's get him back, let's get him back. But the family, because in the moment.

[Julian]

The family's not supposed to be involved with that.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah, that's true. You're right, you're right, they shouldn't be. But if someone of that, you know, you got the Vice President coming in to take the body back, you got, you know, maybe there was a little pressure there, you know, like, we know what happened, let's just, we want to get him back.

[Julian]

But don't they set up these systems to be like on a robotic assembly line? Like this happens, then this, then this, like to keep the emotion out of it?

[Brian Enten]

Usually, probably, but with something like this, you don't think there's pressure from, I mean, this is, again, you've got the Vice President coming to take the body. Like, maybe, you know, I could see it.

[Julian]

Yeah, but that, that doesn't, and, and you may very well be right. That doesn't help.

[Brian Enten]

It doesn't help.

[Julian]

You know what I mean?

[Brian Enten]

I also don't think they probably knew that, you know, this was all going to take off the way it did with all, you know what I mean, the conspiracies, the, the, you know, all the different theories. I, you know, at the time, maybe they didn't, you know, you don't, Maybe they didn't think they had. We're gonna have to disprove so many things.

[Julian]

I gotta get you back on X. Yeah. Because I, that would have been my first thought.

[Brian Enten]

Like, I guess you're right. It was pretty immediate.

[Julian]

I would have been like, how do I make sure if I were in charge of the investigation, I'm like, how do I make sure we are transparent on the right timeline? Meaning, like, let's not send out a tweet just to send out a tweet, but we get everything followed by the book. Because this was, you know, it was a political assassination. He was a political commentator. There's nothing illegal about that. He's practicing his First Amendment. Right, Right. And he was killed.

[Brian Enten]

But it all, they weren't following it by the, I mean, because like, again, back to that tweet from Cash Patel, that was a big mistake.

[Julian]

Yes.

[Brian Enten]

You know, if they were following by the book, that would not have happened.

[Julian]

I agree.

[Brian Enten]

You know, and clearly he, you know, they wanted to calm everybody down quickly.

[Julian]

They didn't do that very effectively.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah, no, the opposite.

[Julian]

Yeah.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah.

[Julian]

But these guys that you talk with, like you said, it's a state case, so they're handling state case.

[Brian Enten]

I think people forget that it's a state. State case. You know, the governor, I mean, not that he's like, prosecuting the case, but I don't know. I just. Again, I don't know. But it's just hard for me to imagine that they're all in on it.

[Julian]

I don't think that's. That would be the case in any scenario, like I said.

[Brian Enten]

So they all got tricked, too.

[Julian]

I think if there is something more surreptitious here, and there might not be, it might be Tyler Robinson.

[Brian Enten]

Right.

[Julian]

Was genuine. Was genuinely upset about Charlie Kirk's beliefs. Disassociated, whatever it is.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah.

[Julian]

And shot him. That may very well be the outcome here. But I'm saying because of the mistakes they've made in the process and actions have been taken since then, I fully understand why people are like, what the fuck is going on?

[Brian Enten]

Yeah.

[Julian]

And no, I do not think many people would be in on it at all. Like, if you look at a famous one, like Kennedy, people say, like, oh, the CIA killed him. I agree. There are people at the CIA that knew about it. The CIA had how many thousands of people working there at the time? How many people you think knew about that? Two, three. That's all it takes. You know what I mean? But then they say the whole place was responsible for it, which I understand that. But, like, the assumption in your head becomes, oh, everyone in the rank of file knew this was going to happen. No one knew that was going to happen. You know, I don't think the sheriff in Utah would be sitting there like, like, hey, they're going to kill Kirk today.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah.

[Julian]

No, not for a second. But there are people, unfortunately, that think everyone's involved, and that's just not.

[Brian Enten]

And there are weird thing. I mean, like I said, I mean, even the roof thing, I think is weird. I get that he's not like a, you know, a presidential person. You don't get the same level of security, but that it was that easy to get on the roof.

[Julian]

Yeah.

[Brian Enten]

With a straight shot and you've got all the security around Charlie down on the ground. But, like, no one thought, like, I Mean, and it's interesting when you go there, it's a really, it's a beautiful campus, by the way, but where that little amphitheater is where this was going on, I mean, there's like, you can get up on roofs all around. It's like, it kind of feels like the perfect place. Like, they would never have a presidential rally there. You know what I mean? Like, it's like the perfect place to have like a bunch of snipers. Like, that part is weird to me.

[Julian]

To actually, to defend his security on, on that front though, like you said, it's not a president coming in. They are paid there to be security. But the way I've seen it, maybe I'm wrong about this. The security arrived all with him. So. And I don't know what their normal protocol was, but it didn't seem like they were security that did like pre area checks on a radius.

[Brian Enten]

And you wouldn't think they would. I mean, look, like they say people are more famous in death sometimes, you know, and I knew, of course I covered Charlie Kirk. Most people I know knew who he was. But, you know, if we were talking about this before, does Charlie Kirk need a pre. They probably didn't think they needed that level of, you know, like.

[Julian]

I agree. Yeah, that's, that's what I'm saying. I, I think they, they walk up with him and they're checking in the immediate area. But I mean, shit. And people can run a whole down rabbit hole with this. They didn't even check 300 yards out for Trump. Yeah. He's running for presidency.

[Brian Enten]

Right.

[Julian]

You know what I mean? So it's like how even if he has beefed up security, which he did, like, how far does it really go? I think that's where there's more of a simple explanation of like, well, they wouldn't have done that, but he did have a perfect shot. It's, it's sinister when you see the one cell phone shot looking out before he's killed and you see a little figure moving up there. I probably wouldn't have seen that if I were taking that video. Because you're looking at all the people.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah.

[Julian]

Right in front of you. Once again, everything is hindsight 20 20. I just wish they would have handled more of this by the book because their feet eating a lot of this stuff. And it's going to be interesting to see if Tyler Robinson ends up in any way cooperating or something like that.

[Brian Enten]

Well, the good thing is if he goes to trial and I've covered a lot of Trials, you know, everything comes out.

[Julian]

Yeah.

[Brian Enten]

So that'll be a time where we can really, you know. Oh, we can't talk about this. We can't talk about that. We'll see everything that they have.

[Julian]

Yeah, it'd be interesting if. If his boyfriend testified too. Yeah, that would definitely get a line.

[Brian Enten]

I imagine they. He will have to.

[Julian]

Sure. As a state case. Will this have cameras in the courtroom?

[Brian Enten]

Yes. Yeah, they have cameras in Utah. That's why we've seen. We've seen them so far. Yeah.

[Julian]

Okay.

[Brian Enten]

Yep.

[Julian]

So will you be out there?

[Brian Enten]

Oh, yeah.

[Julian]

Yeah.

[Brian Enten]

And we'll see if it gets to. You know, I wonder if he'll try to work some kind of deal. Deal to avoid the death penalty. But at the same time, I don't know if they're willing to take the death penalty off the table. I mean, the governor's talked about it several times, so I don't think they can, which would be mean. You know, he'll probably have a trial.

[Julian]

Yeah. Real quick, Brian. I just got run to the bathroom, but we'll come right back. Sure, One sec.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah.

[Julian]

All right, we're back. Before we get to Coburger, by the way, I haven't mentioned this yet today, you also started your own YouTube channel.

[Brian Enten]

I did, yeah.

[Julian]

Literally a couple months ago. Congrats on that.

[Brian Enten]

Thank you.

[Julian]

You're murdering it. It's like that thing blew up overnight. I'm not like that surprised, but the hockey stick speed you're growing is crazy. So keep going.

[Brian Enten]

I'm trying. It's right. I'm working all the time.

[Julian]

Yeah.

[Brian Enten]

I'm editing it all myself. I'm doing everything.

[Julian]

You're doing the editing?

[Brian Enten]

Yeah. So I'm like. I'm just banging them out and just. It's fun. I mean, it's really fun. I love it. It's cool.

[Julian]

Cool.

[Brian Enten]

Because, you know, but it's. It's like I'm not sleeping much.

[Julian]

Yeah, we got to get some of that off your plate. As someone who edited all my shit for years.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah. It takes a lot of time.

[Julian]

Yeah. I still do edits, but, like, I have help now with stuff.

[Brian Enten]

I think there's something about the like, just cuz I've worked for, you know, News Nation and networks and, you know, there's so many people involved. There's just something like, about knowing that you did everything that's like, just feels so good.

[Julian]

It's a nice feeling.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah. And it's the thought. I mean, I'm sure I will have to give it up because. Because I'll just probably die if I don't at some. Like, I'll just like collapse. But like, for right now, like, knowing that, you know, it's exactly the way that I want it, it's pretty cool.

[Julian]

That is great.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah.

[Julian]

How do you balance that though? Because I mean, you're reporting on stuff full time as well. Obviously it overlaps with the content you then make. But what's also the rules around that? Because you report for News Nation, but then you can, you, you can make content on your own too, like, basically.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah. And you know, I'm busy with News Nation, but, but like you were saying earlier, there's a lot of waiting around at stuff. You know, there's a lot of times where I'll just be sitting in the car for two hours waiting on a press conference or just watching a house or, you know, at the scene of. So I've got time and I do a lot of them in the car. That's the thing. It's like, it's not as cool as your studio and fancy and stuff. It's literally, it's mostly me in the car sitting on the steps or. Cause I gotta, you know, I sort of work it in, in between my NewsNation gig. So it's a little more like rough around the edges.

[Julian]

But it's also like. You did an amazing interview with one of the Coburg victim sisters. Yeah, it was Olivia Gonzalez.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah, yeah.

[Julian]

Right. So you're doing a lot of content that also deals with, you know, the people affected with the cases you cover on the ground. So do you have to do. Is some of it like you do something for News Nation first and then you kind of build on that?

[Brian Enten]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. For the most part. Yeah. I mean, I don't want to, you know, I, I. Most of the stuff, any news I would break on News Nation, that kind of thing, you know. But then I'll do it on my channel right after. Talk about. Because News Nation, it's like, you know, there's limited time that I have there. You know, I'm given like a three minute spot or a four minute spot. So I can really dig into things, you know, afterwards on my channel, which is cool.

[Julian]

But then you, you do some fill ins too, right?

[Brian Enten]

I do.

[Julian]

Where you host shows.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah, yeah. I filled in for Chris Cuomo last night. So like if Chris Cuomo goes on vacation or Ashley Banfield or Elizabeth Vargas, then I go and I fill in for them.

[Julian]

That's a whole different ball game though too. It is when you're doing like an hour long show.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah.

[Julian]

You got the script in front of you and then you're going off script to like describe things happening, one story to another. It's, it's kind of like a different part of the brain, right?

[Brian Enten]

It is. And I'm not like, you know, I'm a, I'm like a little road warrior. You know, I'm always out on the road. I'm always in my car. I'm always a little grungy. So, like, it's kind of weird for me. Like, you know, I put the suit on, it just feel, I feel a little bit of imposter syndrome, like.

[Julian]

Oh.

[Brian Enten]

Like, you know, like I'm, it's the news daddy, Brian.

[Julian]

He can't be feeling impossible.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But then I, but then I just kind of own it. It's cool. It's fun to do it. It's just so different, like with all the studio, like, you know, I'm used to being out in the field, you know.

[Julian]

Yeah. That place is. I, I've been over there with, with Nishan who was just in here with us for a while, but, you know, the, the whole life, like news bullpen. And then you got the studio right there and there's lights everywhere. It's a way different, like, it's way different than this.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah.

[Julian]

In every way. It's, it's definitely like a, a little bit of a, you know, like smaller stadium feel, if you will, but it's the people that work there, the fans.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's, it's weird when you're there, but I got used to it, you know, and I, I, I love News Nation. I believe in the mission, the whole tribe trying to go down the middle and kind of the things we've been talking about, not tell people what to think. I think kind of old school, you know, of everyone.

[Julian]

You know, I'm not just saying this because you're here. I've talked with Nishan about this. Of all the networks that seem to be just off the rails these days in whatever direction, News Nation is the closest thing to be in, like just trying to report on things. And I see people from different ends of the spectrum coming on there all the time. It's, it's real, really. I hope it stays that way.

[Brian Enten]

It's harder too. I mean, it's harder to do that. People don't realize, like, it is so much harder to try to be fair and to try to be down the middle and get both sides. If you want to just go on one side if you want to just believe one side, it's the easiest thing ever.

[Julian]

Click.

[Brian Enten]

You just get the same people, you know what they're going to say. You have a built in audience because people want to hear what they believe already. What we're doing is so hard and you know, and it, it's, it's cool though.

[Julian]

It's cool because it's also not the psychology of clicks. Because like if you're, without naming other networks, if you're another network that leans one way or the other, not only are you playing to, you know exactly what's going on and you're playing to your base, you're also playing, you know, like hater porn, if you will.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah, of course, on the other side.

[Julian]

Which gets you clicks and traffic. It's just people getting mad at each other.

[Brian Enten]

Oh, if we had picked a side, I'd, you know, we would be growing so much faster. Yeah, 100%.

[Julian]

Yeah. You know, I knew, you know, I was trying to figure this out. I didn't know and I still don't know. But it's a couple things you figure out along the way. And I, probably after starting in 2020 and going all in on this, I knew by the beginning of 2022 if you really wanted to blow up in a space that covered anything news or like culture, just pick a side and go all in. And it's like the second I saw that, I was like, oh, never. I'd have to like lie.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah.

[Julian]

Because it would go against what I believe in too. I'm not doing that. But you see what people do and, and you know, I'm not calling people out, but I'll watch it happen.

[Brian Enten]

And I'm like, yeah, I can't imagine doing that. Like, even with my own channel, even just the way I cover stories. Like, I don't know, it's just, I guess the motivation is people want to get rich or I, I, I'm just trying to think. I guess that's the main motivation of doing, doing that. And I guess I just don't have. I, again, I, I would feel guilt.

[Julian]

Yeah.

[Brian Enten]

I would feel bad about like putting out bad information or. You know what I mean?

[Julian]

Yes, of course. Because you're, you're like a normal good person.

[Brian Enten]

Well, yeah. I mean, it's just weird. Yeah. I just, I don't know, I don't want to go to bed at night feeling bad about that. You know, it's just not worth it as long as I can like make enough money. But I don't need, you know, Right, right.

[Julian]

You also, like, I've always had this, the theory, you know, psychologists will talk about how everyone secretly wants to be famous. And I think there's tremendous data to back that. Like, everyone, even the people that are like, I would never want, like, there's. You would love to be able to be known for something or something like that. And I, I, I would love to be able to be known for what I, what I do here and things. But I, I think there's a difference between the gene of wanting to be famous and wanting fame.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah.

[Julian]

And they're not. Everyone wants the second one. The second one is the, like, the types of people who want to have their agent call ahead of time when they're at a restaurant. So the paparazzi is there and they can act like they're pissed about it, but really that's what they live for. Right. And I think that in many cases, a lot of the people who will just kind of go all in on the clicks, regardless of what they believe, there's an aspect of them that wants that kind of thing. Like, even if it's hate, they just love the lights and camera and attention.

[Brian Enten]

Even when it's negative.

[Julian]

Yeah. Yes. And you don't have that. I don't have that. A lot of my friends who are public figures like that I know in the space don't have that. But then I see other people, I'm like, yeah.

[Brian Enten]

I think it's finding that ground, too. Of, like, you want to be. You, you want your stuff to be seen. I mean, that's the whole point of you, you, you want your stuff to be seen. You want people to. You want it to have value, but you don't want to cross over into that. Like, you know, you get too popular, and then you, you just lose touch with reality. Even, like, coming here to New York City right now, feeling. Filling in for Cuomo last night, like, I like doing that, but I, you know, even when I'm in the city, like, you just, you don't really know real America if you just live in that world.

[Julian]

Yes.

[Brian Enten]

You know, in the studio all the time. Like, I mean, you know, I.

[Julian]

A hundred percent. It's a bubble.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah. It's a bubble.

[Julian]

I think it's so, like, I was. I just got back in last night, went out of town. Like, I think it's so important to get out of here.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah.

[Julian]

And stuff. And see things. The one thing I will say, though, about regardless of where you live is I think people also sometimes choose to live in that bubble. And I don't mean that physically. I mean that from like a curiosity, perspective. Like I was in the definition of a bubble when I lived in my parents house as someone who's lifelong, from New Jersey, you know, a coastal warrior, whatever you want to call it. But I couldn't go anywhere because I had no money to go anywhere. But as I was growing the profile. Profile. I have always just gone out of my way to connect with people who are fans of this show or even haters of this show, like where they're from. I could talk to someone who's in Sweden or someone who's in Morocco, or someone who's in Iowa or someone who's in New Mexico and their whole life is different. And I'm like genuinely interested in what's important to them and why. Now that's not the same as going there and understanding that. But I find myself when I'm walking down these streets in New York sometimes passing people and just kind of knowing that like, oh, this is, this is their only reality.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah.

[Julian]

They just know this. And it's like, dude, there's a whole wide world out there. You have to understand people don't think like you do.

[Brian Enten]

When it always amazes me that so much media is based out of New York and it's like these people just live in this ecosystem but claim to understand the whole country and world. It's just weird.

[Julian]

It's very weird, man. You got it, you got it. Gotta, I guess broaden your horizons a little bit and. But you know what, that's also. We've seen different movements and I don't even mean this just politically. We've just seen cultural shifts over the last 10 to 15 years where it's clear that a lot of people, like I'll just speak for, within this country are like that.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah.

[Julian]

You know, you can sit there with the Internet now we can talk to each other.

[Brian Enten]

Right.

[Julian]

You can sit there and in your bully pulpit and pretend that you understand what's going on. But if, if you're talking, you're going to get called out for that. And that's why we've seen, by the way, you know, that's. I think that's why News Nation exists, because you're doing something that is against what the business model is supposed to be. And yet you're doing pretty well because there's enough people who are like, yo, fuck, these people are over here and here just telling us what we already know. We're going to hear from them.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah. And you need people, even though there's so many people online now and so, so many podcasts. Like you still need people to go out and find the information and actually report. Like you got to show up and like try to talk to people and beg to get in and then ask the hard questions, like if you don't, do you know what I mean, that gives everybody else something to talk about too, you know.

[Julian]

Of course, of course. But you have, I, I do want to get to it. You have been covering this, this Coburger thing, speaking of, you know, having a knock on doors and stuff. You've been covering that since I guess 2022 when this happened. Yeah, right.

[Brian Enten]

Yep. Right after it happened. Happened.

[Julian]

You know, I did a podcast with Joseph in July. Right. Came out like the day of the sentencing. We recorded it right before and so there's at least like we know what the outcome is. And Bryan Coburger pleaded guilty, admitted that he did this, though he did not speak in court. And at the end of the day, you know, one of the most brutal murder scenes that anyone had ever seen is what was at the middle of this. And four, you know, sub 20 year old kids were cut down long before their priorities crime, you know, were you there? Was this another one where you were like on the scene like the next day or that day or.

[Brian Enten]

No, not that soon. It was probably maybe 10 days, something like that. I was still one of the first national reporters. It hadn't really gotten full coverage yet. I don't know why. It was kind of like slow to roll out at first. But I was actually on vacation in Mexico and one of the producers I work with was like, oh my God, did you see what happened in, in Idaho? And so I ended up flying right from Mexico to Idaho. No, I think I was there like a week after maybe, maybe a little less.

[Julian]

So were you there when might have been less?

[Brian Enten]

Actually it might have been like five, six days after.

[Julian]

Yeah. You don't feel like a 10, 11?

[Brian Enten]

Yeah, no, I think it was, it was sooner.

[Julian]

Were you there when they, when the police were starting to do their press conferences, I guess to try to update the public.

[Brian Enten]

Yes, but the problem was they only did like one and then they didn't, they were very, they didn't talk at all in the beginning. So that was kind of one of those things that just led to the fire of, you know, speculation and thinking that, you know, who was different, people were responsible. And they were very, very quiet for the first like couple of probably first three weeks. I think there's only like one press.

[Julian]

Conference what was your first thought on this case when you looked at it?

[Brian Enten]

Like, serial killer type deal? Like, I mean, just, you know, it was scary back then because when I got there, you know, no one knew anything about who did it. No one. People. We didn't know if it was a small college town. We didn't know if it was someone in town. We didn't know if the person was a neighbor was walking around when we were doing our live shots outside. I mean, there's just something especially eerie and freaky about that whole situation. In the beginning, even I remember, like. And I've never done this. There was like a Fairfield in there. That's where I would always stay. And that was another one. I stayed for like six weeks when I got there. I never left. But I remember my room was on the first floor at first. And, like, I would never think like this, but I remember, like, I moved to the second floor because I was just like, this is like, creepy here right now. Like, even just wondering, like, is the killer watching you when you're out doing your live shot? You know what I mean?

[Julian]

Yes. It's a little bit, obviously, totally different. Different setting here. But I always think about the first season of True Detective and how, like, the Louisiana, you know, backcountry was a character. The setting itself, because it was just so eerie. Like, what is the needle in the middle of this haystack? And, you know, you're out there in Idaho, it's in the mountains. It's a college campus. And then a quiet area, and there's some needle in the middle of this. Hey, Stack. Allegedly. Where someone's just like a brutal, grizzly, correct killer. It's not like New York, where unfortunately there's a murder every day.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah.

[Julian]

You know, and there's 9 million people just on that one island.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah.

[Julian]

You know, it's a little bit of a different feel almost.

[Brian Enten]

It's interesting. Like, just coming off the Charlie Kirk thing, there's something kind of similar. Like in Utah, there was. There's this vibe there that, like, things like that don't happen there and that, like, the people. People there aren't, like, really prepared for it. Like, you know what I mean?

[Julian]

Yes.

[Brian Enten]

Like, and they're just. They're really nice in that part of Utah. I mean, it's mostly Mormon and you just, I don't know, like, even, like on the campus showing up, like, they didn't, like, kick you off right away. They're nice to the media. It's kind of the same in Idaho. Like, they're just. You got this sense right away, like, things like this don't happen here, and, like, they're not really, like, ready for this.

[Julian]

This. Did you. You know, it's also, like, kids all in the middle of it because, like, all the witnesses or, you know, people who were the first ones there at the scene and stuff are literally college kids.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah.

[Julian]

Just trying to have a good time and then coming upon something, you know, absolutely crazy. Like, how hard is it trying to get sources when you know you're going to. Very, very shattered and righteously scared, you know, very young adults, if you.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah, it's hard. Like, you know, this. There was an Amazon doc that came out recently about it that kind of, like, painted me in a bad light because there was video of me going to the frat house where one of the victims was in the fraternity, you know, Ethan Chapin. And they got. They somehow had video of me, like, going to the frat house, trying to talk to them. And it made. I mean, it was a kind of a tricky situation. Cause it's like these kids have been victimized, and. And here suddenly got these reporters showing up. And how far do you. You know what I mean? Like, they're. They're. They're kids still young. And so, yeah, it was. It was tricky sort of navigating that. And it was kind of like with Gabby Petito, the attention level was so high. People were so into it. People wanted every little detail. You had people like people on social media not doing the right thing and reporting, all just for clicking. And there were decisions you had to make on the spot. Like we were talking about with Gabby. I mean, I remember being outside the murder house in Idaho. This is probably a few weeks after. And the frat. Everybody was into these frat brothers, like, thinking, you know, that maybe they had something to do with it, you know? Cause Ethan was in the. I don't know why, but there was just a lot of attention on the frats. And there was, like, a frat party happening one night while I was out there. And I remember it was loud and, like, you know, I had this. Like, it's. If I had reported that or shown video of that, people would have. It would have gone crazy. Like, they're having a party after their. You know what I mean? But people were forgetting that they were just college kids at the end of the day.

[Julian]

Yeah.

[Brian Enten]

Like a week. A couple weeks had gone by. They were grieving in their own way. Like, they had music on. Like, when you were there, you're like, this doesn't mean they did it, but you know what I mean, you had. So I never reported that or I never showed the video because it was like, I just knew, like, people are going to take advantage of this and make it seem like, oh, these guys, these kids, they must be involved.

[Julian]

You know, of course, I think that was a smart move on your part. Just because of what the microscope was on it. Yeah. Like, I fully. Again, I can't even comprehend being in that situation, but I fully understand that, you know, once you're five, six days out of that and it's still scary, you want some normalcy, of course, to your life and like it. By the way, you feel a little more safe when you're in a large group of people.

[Brian Enten]

So it's like, all right, you're also in college. Like, I think back to what you're not. Like, you. You're not thinking like an adult. How would they would handle something.

[Julian]

Yeah.

[Brian Enten]

What was.

[Julian]

What was the one. It's so bad I can't remember her name. The one that. There were two other girls in the house who were not killed.

[Brian Enten]

Oh, yeah, right. Dylan and Bethany.

[Julian]

Right. So Dylan, you know that be what they did to that girl.

[Brian Enten]

Oh, my God.

[Julian]

On social media.

[Brian Enten]

Don't even get me started. Still do. It's insane. Still, still, still. There are all sorts of conspiracy theories and theories about her and. And she's just been like, through hell. I mean, that girl is so. I don't know if you saw her at the sentencing.

[Julian]

That's what I'm saying.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah. She showed up, she spoke, and she is like beyond strong.

[Julian]

Yes.

[Brian Enten]

And people still won't leave her alone.

[Julian]

And she was at that. Righteously so.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah.

[Julian]

At that sentencing hearing, distraught beyond belief. And this is three years later.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah. Can you imagine what it was? Imagine. She'll never be the same.

[Julian]

You don't. You know, you're a little. You're a little tipsy. It's late at night.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah.

[Julian]

It's a dark house. You don't know what's going on. You're a little frozen. You go back into your room or you go to the basement with your friend. Like, I don't understand why that was so hard for people to understand.

[Brian Enten]

I think it just goes back to what we said. Like, there's always going to be people who. No matter what, that's what I tell people that I do stories with. And they're like, I read the question comments and I saw. It's like, there's always going to be. There's always going to be no matter what, you could do the most incredible thing in the world, and there's going to be a group of people that come out to say the opposite and say you're bad.

[Julian]

It just. It's how it is.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah.

[Julian]

And, like. But that's, you know, you. And I choose to be on and choose to do this for a living. Like, if you're not okay with that, you're in the wrong game. Yeah, it is. I have a lot of empathy for it. When it's someone who gets, you know, through no fault of their own, caught in the middle of being at this crazy story, and then they have to be put through that.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah.

[Julian]

Especially when they're a kid.

[Brian Enten]

It's terrible.

[Julian]

You know, and people question every little thing you do. It's like, obviously, she didn't have anything to do with it, but you don't know how you would handle that in that situation. Your. Your mind is not 100% there, and you get scared. And the next day, like, I remember. I think it was. Was. I think I did see the Amazon, doc. There were two that came out. I'm pretty sure I saw the Amazon one. But, like, that was the James Patterson one.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah.

[Julian]

Right. So, you know, they're describing. Some of the other friends are describing the next morning when they're outside the house before, I guess one of the friends had gone in to find the bodies, and she's just like, Dylan was just delirious. Like, what the. I know something bad happened. I don't know why this is so hard for people to put that together.

[Brian Enten]

No. And also, like, it's over. Like, Brian Coburger pled guilty. His DNA was on the knife sheath. His car was. His surveillance. Surveillance video got his car coming and going. The cell phone tracking got, like, there's no. I think it just becomes, again, almost like a board game for people. Like, they just want to play the. Keep playing the game.

[Julian]

Yeah.

[Brian Enten]

You know.

[Julian]

Now, they didn't catch him, though, for what, like, six weeks?

[Brian Enten]

Yeah.

[Julian]

After that. Yeah.

[Brian Enten]

No longer. Yeah.

[Julian]

Eight weeks.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah. It was December. Yeah. It was like, almost two months.

[Julian]

And they're killed on, like, November 13th?

[Brian Enten]

Yeah, yeah.

[Julian]

Yeah, something like that. Yep. So you're on the scene.

[Brian Enten]

Wow.

[Julian]

This is in limbo.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah.

[Julian]

He's. And he's not caught. I can't remember, were there. Did they have other suspects or anything or information?

[Brian Enten]

Nothing. It was very. That's what kind of was fueling all of this. Like, there was no information coming out. Police weren't talking. We were really hard on the police because at the time, we just thought they knew nothing. So after a while, we're just like, what is wrong with these? You know, we were being hard on them. Even on tv, the families were being hard on them, and there was no rumbling of anything. Then they finally released a photo of the white Honda Elantra, which we later knew belonged to Co Burger. So that was the first real, like, piece of something we had to go with as, you know, reporters. We were putting the picture out. You know, people were talking to us. Oh, I know someone in Elantra. Like, that was the first, like, clue we really had from police. But then it was still quiet for a while after that.

[Julian]

Were you in touch with the victim's families during that?

[Brian Enten]

Yes. Yep.

[Julian]

What was that like?

[Brian Enten]

It was sad. I mean, it was. It was awful, as you can imagine. And not only awful because they were killed, but because there was. They were scared that this person was still out there.

[Julian]

Yeah.

[Brian Enten]

Especially the Gonzalez family. I became pretty close to, and I remember I went to their house a couple times. They lived in Coeur d', Alene, which is like two and a half hours away. So I would drive out to their house to talk to them, and just going in there, it was like they were all, like, held up in there as a family. Like, what's. You know what I mean? Like, just really on edge. And with them, you know, they were grieving their daughter, but they had kind of transferred all of those emotions into, like, focusing on, like, what happened. And just like, it was almost like a little nerve center in there. They're all on their computer. You know what I mean? They were trying to solve it themselves, themselves. And, yeah, it was just. It was an awful, awful time.

[Julian]

What did you think when you first saw Coburger and they announced that. That they had somebody?

[Brian Enten]

Well, I actually got a tip, so I just assumed, like, I don't know why, in the back of my mind.

[Julian]

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