Julian Dorey Podcast #358

"Astrophysicist on 3i Atlas, NASA Moon Mission & Intelligent Life"

Guest: Dr. David Kipping | Date: November 21, 2025
Host: Julian Dorey

Main Theme / Purpose

Renowned astrophysicist Dr. David Kipping joins Julian Dorey for a wide-ranging deep dive into high-profile astronomical events, focusing on the trending "3i Atlas" object, NASA’s evolving Moon ambitions, intelligent life, exoplanet research, and the very fabric of reality. The discussion demystifies buzzworthy claims about possible alien spacecraft, dissects the scientific process behind these discoveries, and explores theoretical questions about multiverse, time, planetary habitability, and humanity's place in the cosmos.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. What Is 3i Atlas and Why the Hype?

• 3i Atlas = "Third Interstellar Object Atlas," a recently discovered object believed to have originated outside our solar system.
  • The first: Oumuamua (2017, cigar or pancake-shaped).
  • The second: 2I/Borisov (comet-like).
  • 3i Atlas is considered comet-like, large, moving unusually fast, and has drawn speculation—including from Harvard’s Avi Loeb—that it could be an alien artifact.
• Why the public buzz?
  • “It’s kind of become like this viral thing. … It’s actually not so much the scientific community.” (David Kipping, 01:22)
  • Celebrities like Kim Kardashian have tweeted about it, heightening public anxiety.
  • Dr. Kipping welcomes public interest but cautions that misunderstood scientific data can easily spiral into sensationalism and panic.

2. Interstellar Objects — Scientific Context

• Interstellar objects are debris ejected from other star systems during their chaotic planet formation, roaming the galaxy.
• Discoveries:
  • Only expected to see these perhaps once a decade, yet three have been found in just a few years (“partly because telescopes have improved,” 05:16).
  • The frequencies of such discoveries are still full of guesswork.
  • The solar system is itself “not a typical solar system… many things about it which are odd.” (06:59)

3. Dissecting the "Anomalies”: Is 3i Atlas Alien?

Avi Loeb’s List of 10 Anomalies (08:17–127:39)

David and Julian work through Avi Loeb's claimed evidence for 3i Atlas as an alien craft, debunking each point.

a. Anomaly Examples:

• Unusual trajectory along the solar system’s ecliptic (09:01)
  • Kipping: It’s a selection bias—surveys look in the plane where solar system comets are, so that’s where we’re most likely to find anything, interstellar or not.
  • “Millions and millions of… 1% anomalies. So to me this isn’t… you definitely wouldn’t be like, oh, it has to be aliens.” (10:25)
• Anti-tail (sunward jet), not an optical illusion (11:19–14:58)
  • Seen in previous comets, especially when far from the Sun.
• Extreme mass, high speed (19:54–20:42)
  • Mass estimates are highly uncertain and contested within the planetary science community.
  • If the object is as massive as claimed, its discovery would be statistically shocking for “natural” interstellar comets, but mass estimates are unreliable.
• Close approaches to certain planets ("fine-tuned" trajectory) (64:48)
  • Kipping: A clear case of “p-hacking” statistical artifacts; this approach can make anything seem surprising.
• Odd chemical abundances (nickel vs. iron) (70:02)
  • Could be explained by observing the comet at an unusual time/distance.
  • Our sample size of interstellar comets is much too small to say what is “normal.”
• Coincidence with 'Wow! Signal' direction (122:01)
  • “Nine degrees is a lot” in cosmic terms; not convincing.

“If it stopped, if it shined a laser beam at us or something, sent a radio emission at us—I'd be down with it. But… everything on this list is very much what comets do.”
— David Kipping, 126:39

4. Scientific Disputes, Public Hype, and the Alien Narrative

• Kipping urges caution against leaping to “it’s aliens!” for every anomaly, emphasizing science’s need for extraordinary evidence.
• Disinformation and viral pseudoscience risks “setting the seriousness of the conversation back” (112:18).
• Kipping: It’s critical for scientists to keep open minds while adhering to disciplined process, and to communicate findings responsibly.

5. Deeper Cosmic Questions

Black Holes, Multiverse, and the Nature of Reality

• Black holes as "cheat codes" to reality. Event horizons, time dilation, and Hawking radiation.
• Multiverse: The philosophical implications of “many worlds,” quantum immortality, simulation theory discussed (see 51:20–57:29).
  • “There are some credible reasons to believe in a multiverse as well…” (160:26)
• Time travel: Forward is possible; backward, not so much—universe appears to “destroy” time machines as soon as they’re activated (171:20).

Habitability and Astrobiology

• Exoplanet discoveries, search for habitable worlds (Trappist-1 system), exomoons, atmospheric analysis via transit method (135:35–144:03).
• “If we could intercept [an interstellar object]… there could be simple life buried inside this thing.” (115:53)
• Discusses O2 as a biosignature and the importance of moons for habitability.

Should We Build Messages for Future Civilizations?

• Physical beacons on the Moon or Mars might be the only effective long-term communication: “It’s not two-way—it’s one-way, the same way the pyramids are a form of communication.” (83:45–90:39)
• “New York City would last for a few million years and then there’d be no trace left.” (85:27)
• The Moon is a better long-term archive, lacking weathering and geological activity.

6. NASA, SpaceX, and the Politics of Space Exploration

• NASA’s budget for science is small compared to total; risk of large investments like James Webb Telescope (31:10–33:11).
• Collaboration with private sector (SpaceX, Blue Origin): “If the private industry can pull down those costs… I’m 100% in favor of that.” (177:49)
• Societal value of pure science: “Why do we do science? Fundamentally, I don’t think it’s that different from why we do art. … it’s what makes us human beings.” (179:49–183:32)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the scientific process:
  “It’s easy to back engineer these crazy low probabilities... P-hacking is banned in most journals in science to do this.”
  (David Kipping, 66:48)

• On extraordinary claims:
  “If it stopped in space or went backwards—that’s not natural. Then we'd be like, that has to be a ship. … Everything it’s doing is what asteroids and comets do.”
  (Kipping, 68:27; 127:39)

• On the power of the telescope:
  “The James Webb telescope is wild to me. Like the fact human beings invented something like that, that can see... the images are insane.”
  (Julian, 29:54)

• On pushing scientific boundaries:
  “You have to fly close to the sun to really advance. Maybe in this case… the wings are melting off [Avi Loeb]. But… we should keep giving the dude a chance… with evidence, to push the envelope.”
  (Kipping, 132:24)

Select Timestamps for Important Segments

• Explanation of 3i Atlas and recent interstellar object discoveries: 02:36–05:53
• Avi Loeb’s anomaly list and Kipping’s point-by-point debunk: 09:01–127:39
• Statistical p-hacking and selection bias explained: 64:48–68:27
• Atmospheric and chemical analyses of comets/exoplanets: 70:02–73:09; 135:35–144:25
• Discussion about black holes, time, and the multiverse: 38:08–57:29
• Philosophical implications (quantum immortality, simulation theory): 51:20–57:29
• NASA, private sector, and the future of space funding: 177:49–183:32

Tone and Language

Both Julian and Kipping keep the conversation lively, enthusiastic, and accessible, peppering technical clarity with humor, pop culture references, and candid skepticism. Kipping is generous in explaining complexities, careful to distinguish between hypothesis, speculation, and established scientific knowledge.

For Listeners: Why This Episode Matters

• Disentangles science from viral hype on “alien” interstellar objects.
• Illuminates the process—and hurdles—of serious UFO or alien detection claims.
• Explores fascinating frontiers: planetary habitability, interstellar objects as messengers, the multiverse, and human legacy in space.
• Highlights the societal and philosophical importance of curiosity-driven science.

For more from Dr. David Kipping: Visit Cool Worlds (YouTube/Columbia University).