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Julian Dorey Podcast
#359 - Death Expert on 9/11, Ancient Afterlife Prophecy, Psychics & Reincarnation | David Ferrugio
03:08:11
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- [00:00]
A
Okay, 911 is just wild as hell in general. That's a whole other conspiratorial rabbit hole we can maybe get into later. But I do remember someone trying to keep me away from the TV. Wasn't until 3:00 clock when I saw the footage for the first time. It was just a replay. Wondering what happened, let alone. Is my dad okay? He was on the 105th floor. Building was collapsed. My dad died in the Twin Towers. The plane crash, it was like the end of the movie there. So it just made me understand life and see the reality of what this world is and what can happen. That was one of the biggest lessons I learned because.
- [00:26]
B
So you have the podcast Dead Talks, where you go through the nature, science realities and pretty much anything involving grief and death and the afterlife. And it's from your own personal story. Do you think that when souls leave, they still exist among us? You feel your dad here with you?
- [00:43]
A
Yeah. So I have a specific story. Word.
- [00:46]
B
Hey, guys, if you're not following me on Spotify, please hit that follow button and leave a five star review. They're both a huge, huge, huge help. Thank you. Glad we could finally make this happen, man. We've been talking about it for like a year.
- [01:07]
A
I know. I didn't even know you had. I forgot I had your number.
- [01:10]
B
Yeah. Do you know what? I. Honestly, there's like 3,000 unread texts in there, so I'm not a person that can ever like brag about being on top of it, so don't worry about it.
- [01:17]
A
That gives me anxiety just hearing that, to be honest.
- [01:19]
B
Oh, my God, man. I have OCD too. So, like, when I look at my emails and my texts because I don't have an assistant, I can't really afford that yet, but it's like, holy.
- [01:28]
A
Oh, yeah, you spend it on these cameras.
- [01:30]
B
Yeah, that's a sore subject for my accountant. Let's not bring that up. He listens sometimes. But yeah, we're a little behind the eight ball now because of these things.
- [01:39]
A
Yeah, it's worth it. It looks sick.
- [01:40]
B
Thank you, brother. Thank you. But it is actually always cool to talk with someone who is in my industry but does something entirely different. So you have the podcast Dead Talks where you go through the nature, science realities and pretty much everything, anything involving grief and death and the afterlife, and it's from your own personal story. So for people who have not seen your podcast before on YouTube or Spotify or Apple or wherever you get your podcast, we'll have that linked down below. But you know I think obviously your backstory is. Is the driving force to what you do. So would you mind just explaining, you know, what. What happened with your dad?
- [02:22]
A
Yeah, so my dad was in the World Trade center. I was 12 at the time. He was in tower one. And I don't think it's a spoiler alert, but I think everyone knows what happened on September 11, and he was on the 105th floor. So, honestly, he had. Now, looking back, even at the time, he had no shot of getting out, even though there were. You know, I think there was a handful of people that a couple that had on my podcast that got out above the impact of the plane. But, yeah, he never. He never made it home that day. So with the podcast, it obviously started from that day. That's my big. Why my dad's death. Essentially, it's something that a lot of people didn't talk about. My story, I wasn't. I. I was very internalized, and I think I've gotten out of that over the years. But talking about death, the most common thing we're all going to go through, I just thought was important and doing it in a way that is just. I'm not a doctor. I don't know. And it's just a conversation, and I think it's something that should be normalized. But, yeah, essentially it starts on September 11th.
- [03:18]
B
Did your dad work at Canter?
- [03:19]
A
Yeah, they lost the most people.
- [03:22]
B
They lost pretty much everyone because they were all above the 100th floor, I think. Right?
- [03:27]
A
Yeah, he was on 100. I don't know if it was only 105 or maybe 106, 2, but they were all on the top floor or one of the top floors.
- [03:33]
B
Yeah, that's still surreal. I mean, the whole day is obviously surreal, but that one, you know, I remember all the images. I was a really little kid, but, like, Howard Lutnick coming on tv. Like, my. His brother died. He's like, my whole company is just gone overnight. All these families left behind. I can't even.
- [03:48]
A
It's.
- [03:49]
B
It's still hard to process that from the outside.
- [03:51]
A
Yeah. I mean, just in general, that's one of the things. Like my grief process, if you will. It's evolved as I got older. Like, I was 12 years old. I didn't. There's a lot of things I remember, but depending on what you ask me, there's a lot of that I don't remember. You know, I remember that day very specifically. And we can get into that if you're interested, but I would like to.
- [04:07]
B
Yeah.
- [04:08]
A
I can start there.
- [04:09]
B
Let's do that.
- [04:10]
A
So, yeah, obviously Tuesday I was in seventh grade, so 12 years old. I remember going to first period and my buddy Jeff, who was notoriously late, so I think first period might have been a little after nine. First plane hit at 8:46, I believe he rolls into first class. He goes, yo, Dave, doesn't your dad work in the World Trade Center? And I said, yes, why? And he goes, a plane flew into the building. And back to what you're saying. Surreal. It was like, I don't know that, I don't know what the hell that meant. What do you mean a plane flew into the building? And he, I don't remember what he told me. I don't know if he gave me more details, but I believe I went straight to the office. I excused myself, went to the office to try to make a phone call, to call my mom and yada yada, and they wouldn't let me.
- [04:51]
B
They wouldn't let you?
- [04:51]
A
They wouldn't let me. But I now I understand why. I mean, because where I was raised, Middletown, New Jersey, a big commuter town. So everyone worked in the city. I think we lost 30 something people in that town alone. So a lot was happening. So a lot of other kids were getting called out of school that day. And I, I think, I'm assuming I wasn't the only one that tried making a phone call that day. So they probably had a kind of, all right, we want, they want me to make a call, but they just can't let everyone just get to the phone at that time. Sure, I wasn't the only one. So regardless of what their reasoning was, couldn't get a phone call out. And my mom made the decision to leave me in school the whole day. And another one that I back, like, you know, shit talkers in the comments, like, how could you leave your child in school all day? Well, what, she had no idea what was going on. What is she going to pull me into home with, with the building still burning, not sure what was going on.
- [05:35]
B
Right.
- [05:36]
A
So she just let me go through the day while she was trying to figure out her own shit and what the heck was going on. And so the reason I point that out is more it was just bizarre because I went, I went the whole school day not knowing what was going on. I knew something happen, were getting called down randomly, not imagining that how it resulted was going to happen because it was just so unfathomable. Unfathomable. And so I remember getting made fun of by some of my friends as 12 year old boys do. And eventually when the school day ended, my best friend James at the time got suspended from the school bus the year before. So he happened to be walking home with me till his mom picked him up, which was a blessing to have him by my side. And I remember trying to go back to that day. I asked him, like, do you remember what we talked about? He said, honestly, we were just quiet. We didn't really say much. But I do remember, remember walking around the bend. There was the last bend before you can see my house. And when I first saw my home for the first time, I saw cars outside. And that was the first moment when I was like, oh, like something went down. Like, there's a Tuesday in the afternoon, why are there 10 cars in my cul de sac? We get to the house, my mom, someone separated me and James. And I. I do remember someone trying to keep me away from the tv, but I was. I forced myself to get to the tv. I wanted to see what happened. And I remember looking at my cousin's eye. I still see his, his eyes. He was looking at me now. Going back and forth as some of my story continues on. I just saw this look. As if he knew my life was about to just let alone everyone's his. My life was just about to like flip upside down. So I walk into the living room and that's when I look at the TV for the first time and I saw the footage and it was a replay. And that's the weird part about going back and forth through the story of where I am today and that day, because it was all done like while I was going through the school day and wondering what happened, let alone is my dad okay? It was all the buildings were collapsing. It was.
- [07:23]
B
You didn't know that in school.
- [07:24]
A
I didn't know that until, you know, no one told me anything. So it was until like I knew something was going on obviously, but it was. It wasn't until 3 o' clock whenever I got home that I saw the footage for the first time. It was just a replay. It was all done. Debris was settled, building was collapsed. My dad was essentially gone. So I remember seeing it for the first time. I don't know if it was the plane or the building collapsing, burst into tears. And then it was like the end of the movie there. It was, like everything went black. And I think that was just my body just saying, yo, you gotta, you can't handle this. We're gonna shut you down for a little bit and you gotta figure this out later in your life to where I'm at now. But obviously I remember things throughout from storytelling and pieces of what that week and the weeks following weeks were. But again, it was as if my body just said, yo, yo, chill out, this is too much, just some overload, we're gonna black you out. And that's exactly what happened.
- [08:10]
B
So you didn't. Right when you saw that? Because, I mean, there was no precedent for this kind of thing in any facet or form. Like, obviously it looked horrible and people assumed the worst when it came down. But the second you saw that replay, you thought to yourself, he's gone. There's.
- [08:29]
A
Yeah, I mean, again, I can't. It's tough for me to put myself in that exact position besides what I just told you. But yeah, I mean, it was so horrific. I mean, yeah, I saw. It was an explosion. So even at 12 years old, like, you know, this is not good, good. It was just the most horrific thing that a lot of people have ever seen, let alone a 12 year old boy. And again, I'm aware there's 3,000 other people. So that was another unique part that we can get into of an individual experience that was part of the N. You know, that's like a weird, it's a weird jumbled experience. But in that moment, obviously I'm only thinking about my dad. And it was just, I, I think, yeah, subconsciously or conscious that I knew that was it. Like, I, I've asked my mom, when did you realize. When I had her on the show, I was like, when did you guys think that he wasn't coming home? And my mom, she knew, I think it was just, you know, we haven't heard from him, but we had some hope because my sisters were telling me that people that we knew were coming home a little later in the day so that we had our fingers crossed a little bit. But again, knowing the, the objective truth of him on being on the 105th floor, like, and the plane hit under him. We knew that much. It was just like he. Like we hoped, but we kind of were just like, there's no how. How could he have gotten out of that? And he didn't. So it was just a weird day of hanging on to hope, not sure what to do the next day. I remember the news crew came to the town and my sister has this very difficult clip of her crying into the camera begging for my dad to come home. So at that point, if it was a day later, we're still hanging on to hope. But I really Feel like we all knew deep down that he wasn't coming back.
- [09:55]
B
How many siblings do you have again?
- [09:56]
A
Two older sisters.
- [09:57]
B
So how old was were your sisters at the time?
- [10:00]
A
My oldest, Jacqueline, was about 8. Yeah, she should have been 18 or 19. Sorry. And then Gina was just turning 18. So Gina was in. Was like a first week of school in college up north. Jacqueline was home. And so that. Yeah, my sister Jacqueline was the first one that was home. And then she was waiting for all of us to come home. And it was just my mom. My mom was like, 44. My dad was 46.
- [10:22]
B
You know, that is one of those days. It's one of the first, like, vivid memory days that I have. And we. My family knew a couple people in those towers, but I didn't lose family members in those towers. I didn't lose close friends in those towers. I didn't go to school with close friends because I was from South Jersey who lost people in those towers. Like, it was more distant, even though it was right here. I will say I do remember, though, every aspect of that day. And one of the things that really stood out was the fact that there were teachers in the hallway. And I'm not one or two. It was like five or six across, say, grades probably like kindergarten through fifth grade, something like that. And there were probably three classes per. So you do the math. It was almost like a third of teachers who had close family who lived right there in Manhattan. A couple of them, I think I had people who worked in the building. And I remember, you know, 9:30 in the morning, maybe 10:00am in the morning after the towers collapse. At 10:30, we would see them out in the hallways on their phones calling families. And our teachers took us all into our rooms and described exactly what was happening while it was happening. And I was seven or eight. Eight years old, right. So that's like, kind of young to be getting told something like that. But they told us exactly what it was. And I believe this part's a little hazy, but I think when we sat down to really learn what it all was, it was probably around 10:30 or 11. So the towers were down at that point. And I remember, you know, them explaining like, they fell. We don't know what went on. So when I hear. I say all that, because when I hear someone who had this hit quite literally directly at home in a town that had it hit all over the place at home in a town where people, as you said, it's a commuter town, a lot of people going to New York every day. If you own a handgun for self defense, your storage likely fits into one of two frustrating categories. It's either locked away, safe, but out of reach in an emergency, or it's unsecured, leaving it vulnerable to anyone. Stop Box USA saw that problem though, and that's why they designed this groundbreaking solution, the Stopbox Pro. With Stopbox Pro, you'll never have to choose between security and readiness ever again. Its ingenious push button locking system gives you fast, reliable access when every second matters, without the hassle of keys or reliance on batteries. It's 100% mechanical, so it works every time, no power needed. The Stopbox Pro's mechanical keyless system allows for fast, secure access without the risk of fumbling for keys when every second matters. It's also battery free, so you never have to worry about your lock not working. And with the holidays coming up, there's never been a time to upgrade your home security. We all know family functions get a little rowdy. Whether it's for your own nightstand or a loved one who takes their security seriously, the Stopbox Pro delivers the perfect balance of protection and preparedness. Looks like your holidays just got a little safer and a lot more affordable for a limited time only. Our listeners are getting a crazy deal at Stopbox right now. Not only are you going to get 10% off your entire order when you use code julian@stopboxusa.com that link is in my description below. But Stopbox is also getting giving you a buy one, get one free for their stop box pro. That's 10 off and a free Stop Box Pro when you use code julian@stopboxusa.com link in description. Go get it. And in school you were never told anything about it. That is stunning to me.
- [13:56]
A
Yeah, I don't know how. I mean, I, I guess everyone, like no one knew what to do. So I'm sure there's plenty of stories like what you just explained. People told you what was up and then my school didn't. What was the best choice? I have no idea. But I want to ask you when because you remember seeing like some details of that day. Do you remember how you absorb that? Like how you understood what they were telling you?
- [14:18]
B
It actually hit me now. Could it hit me like it would have when I was 15 years old? No, because you're young, that you don't have the full grasp. But I knew this was something unprecedented. This was awful. I knew thousands of people were dead. The biggest city in the world, my favorite city, New York, had basically like literally exploded, you know, And I remember having all those. All those thoughts. I remember my mom picking me up from school and just ashen face. Because she. The two people that died in the building, she knew well. And one of them. It was like she knew the family really well, and she. We didn't know that those guys were deceased at that point, but people were like, they haven't heard from him, you know, And I remember all those images. And then I remember going home and I just. That whole week, I remember from day one all the way through, like, just seeing Wolf Blitzer on the tv, just like, yeah, like, what is there to say? You know, you're looking. I think he was broadcasting from, like, right there, too. You're just looking at this going, we don't know anything. We know some people hit this place. But, you know, the whole world was at a standstill. So it did hit me. But I would imagine being 12 years old, you know, that's where you're starting to think about the world a little more. So how much could you even let the gravity of the situation hit you, though, when you're dealing with a way more immediate hurt, which is the fact that your dad is caught up in it?
- [15:52]
A
Well, that even when you explain that you remember that day one to today, like that week, and even just the details you've explained to me, it's kind of. It's a weird feeling because again, as I've already said, I don't remember so much. So part of me is like, okay, how much was that just being young, But I wasn't that young. As you said, 12 years old isn't. It's young for an experience like that. It's young. It's an experience for anyone, But I feel like I was old enough to. To remember more. So that's been a frustrating part to. Even to date, I've. I've let. I've let a lot of it go and just accepted it. But at the same time, it's frustrating not to remember more. Like, again, I remember parts of it, obviously, that day, literally until that point. That's the weird part, because I always think about, like, my brain, my body literally went to defense mode to shut myself down as a defense mechanism from my understanding, from knowing nothing to protect me. But it's only a temporary protection. I feel like that whenever you go through anything in your life, especially as something traumatic, your body may shut down in certain ways. Maybe not the same way that I did, but it's really the way I look at it now, it's like, oh, yeah, we're going to shut this down right now for a forever long that's going to last, but it's not going to be over. That's something you got. You're going to have to figure out down the road. So your body might shut this stuff down to protect you for a little bit, but it's not meant to stay in there forever. So that's been part of my process to figure out what got stuck inside me. Even though I don't remember a lot of the things, I don't really remember how I felt. A lot of the stuff that I do know now is from stories of asking my mom, my sister, like, how was I? What did I act like? Was I this? Was I that I cry? And so a lot of my process is unraveling all that, and that's been my journey. A lot of my grief experience has been later in life, becoming a man, and even to the point where I started this podcast. A lot's come up from that, but it's been so long that it's bizarre how you still have things to work out. And I always wonder, okay, how much of them that day me up to what. I can't do this in a row. I'm not doing this in a relationship, or I'm this way. Is that just from 911 or is that just from other things? So it's like unraveling this puzzle piece is. I can't put everything I do, all my flaws, just in the box of September 11th. Losing my dad, maybe. But some of it is just letting go of understanding where it came from and just understanding that you want to work this out and then just figure it out without a story behind it.
- [17:58]
B
Yeah.
- [17:58]
A
Does that make sense?
- [17:59]
B
Absolutely.
- [18:00]
A
So it's a. It's a grief death, whatever everyone's going through, It's a complicated experience, but I. I feel like I've learned to just kind of try to simplify it, because you go down a rabbit hole with anything too much, then you're starting to confuse yourself more. But it's been 25 years now, so it's been. I've lost people before that, after that, so it's all kind of mashed up. But I'll tell you, going through that at 12 years old, you kind of got to grow up a little quicker. Quicker. Because you see the world differently immediately. That's one thing I do remember immediately. You do see the world differently.
- [18:29]
B
Can you explain what was so different?
- [18:31]
A
Yeah, I mean, in particular, it was more. I did notice getting treated differently. Like, I'm pretty sure I made the seventh grade baseball team as non eighth grader because my dad like in a small detail like I was good but like I, I probably could have made it as an eighth grader. I don't know about a seventh grader so I'm pretty sure I was the last. I made the cut because of my dad. So like a small micro example but besides that like going back to school, you're the, I'm the 911 boy. I'm like the Pete Davidson before Pete Davidson kind of thing where oh, David was the one. And I think there were maybe, maybe another person in the school. I'm forgetting. But I was the guy that lost his dad 9 11. I was the one going to the little league baseball games that didn't have his dad. And I would, people would talk to me a little gently and I noticed that and I've heard from other guests that I've had that lost someone young. One girl was honest about it. She's like, I kind of love. I actually like, like the attention because it was a form of love in some capacity. I appreciated the attention because people were amazing. Community around me, my family, my, obviously my sisters, my mom, immediate family, friends. Like the, the support that I had that I know a lot of people don't have them. I don't know, I don't know how else I would have done it without them, let alone my mother and my sisters. So I'm very grateful for the support I have because community and support is a massive way to get through anything in life. I'm grateful I had that. But at the same time, sometimes the attention was too much even to date. Like I get text messages every year and like one year I'm just like, like let's get one 911 with no text messages. None of this yada yada. It's just a little, it's too much. And that's where it starts getting a little melted with the individuality of a grief experience and also the publicity that comes behind how all me and many other people lost someone. And that's when it's nice. But also it gets a little, gets a little overwhelming.
- [20:13]
B
You know, I think it's, you know, and I can only say this from the outside looking at these situations. Anytime you lose someone close to you don't care who you are, what the circumstances are. It's, it's unimaginable until you go through it. There is something extra in the time afterward when you lose your parent in a very high profile way or something like that or when you lose someone close to you in a high profile way. Because a lot of people, when it has a lot of attention on it, a lot of people who you don't know feel a certain way and with the right intentions towards someone like you or people in your family. But the way that sometimes gets expressed is people don't really know what to do. So they do things and they don't really think about it. And they're not, I'm not blaming them, but they're not really thinking about like how you're going through it and how you're dealing with that and how you have, you're then almost forced to at all times carry that around because of the way sometimes random people will come talk to you about it.
- [21:11]
A
Yeah, it's interesting. Maybe I'm continuing that thought in the wrong way, but a lot of thing that comes up with a lot of my discussions and specifically the grief, even though I talk more, more beyond that, it's like, what do you say to someone during that experience? And I wonder if it's. I haven't really thought about this until you just said that. But it's like, I wonder if I've heard a lot of that because everyone knows about my dad and reaches out to me so much, even 25 years later. Obviously that's dimmed down a little. But I've heard so many people say a million different things to me, whether I can say it verbatim or not. But maybe through that experience I never really got, I never had a problem with what people said to me, whether it was the right thing or the wrong things. I don't know what the right thing or the wrong thing is. I just always focus on what their intention was. Like some people get pissed off, you say, oh, they're in a better place or whatever these words are that some people might get bothered by. And it triggers a lot of people to take these words in the wrong way, if you will. And I think, I wonder if through my experience that's why to the point now, like, I don't let what people say to me affect how I feel. Unless someone's just an asshole, then you know, someone's saying the wrong thing to be an ass. That's different. But I just don't put too much weight on people saying the wrong thing during the time of grief.
- [22:22]
B
Yeah.
- [22:23]
A
And I know, I know it can. If you, if you feel a certain way and you do get, get pissed off, you get sad, it's fine, it's fine. Whatever you feel is Fine. But I think it's important to understand that most people are coming from a good place, even if they're saying the wrong thing or not, because they don't know what to. What do you say? Even I. I've been talking about death for six years now on the podcast. I still don't know the right words.
- [22:40]
B
I don't know what to say.
- [22:41]
A
So in my place, just words, if anything, like the action, the things you do for people.
- [22:45]
B
Yes.
- [22:45]
A
To me, that's how I am. Like, yeah, words are important, but at the same time, it's like, okay, what. What's the action that speaks louder than words, as they say, for a reason. So I don't know if that even makes sense to how I'm parlaying with what you're saying, but it's like. And it's a sensitive topic. You lose someone, you know, dies, or so a friend's going through grief. Like, what do I do? What do I say from the person in grief? I understand why you get triggered by certain words people say, but at the same time, for me, personally, I'm just like, I just. I don't know. Thank you. But at the same time, I don't. If they say the wrong thing, it just doesn't get to me.
- [23:12]
B
I don't know. It's also, you know, there's no good age to ever have someone close to you die, to be very clear. But. But I would say when you're in that, like, 10 to 15, 10 to 16 kind of range, at least from a lot of experiences I've seen of other people, that seems to be, like, the hardest time, because you're coming. You're starting to come of age. You know, you're starting to become independent in some things. You only know the reality in this case of, like, having your parents around. And, you know, when you lose that, it's almost like you're losing it before you can get all the proper guidance to get to the quote, unquote, important things in life. Have you. Have you thought a lot about that since then, considering when this happened?
- [23:58]
A
Yeah, honestly. I mean, this isn't just because I lost my dad at 12, but sometimes I think, like, I feel like 12 is the sweet spot, like, out of that 10 to 15 range, like. Like 12 is specifically a very interesting time to have such a traumatic event, because it is. Everything you just said is like, you're not young enough. You're old enough to know, like, what's up in the world a little bit. Even as ignorant as an undevelopmental you are, but you are old enough to understand and you're still developing like you're still developing from 10 to whatever, 25. At the same time that 12 year old age is such a. It's such a pivotal part of a young boy, a young girl's life. Like you said, for many reasons. So yeah, I have thought about that. It's still weird. Like earlier again you said surreal. And it's just beyond how wild that day was. Like sometimes it's not that I forget, just feels like a weird dream that I lost my dad at 12 years old. But now all these conversations I've had, doesn't dim it, but kind of I'm like, people always say like, oh, Davy, shouldn't have, you shouldn't. No one should ever lose their father at 12 years old. And part of me is like, yeah, why? Like, what's, what does should mean? Like, what do you mean? Like that's. It happens all the time.
- [25:05]
B
Yeah.
- [25:05]
A
And it's not again to diminish anyone that's gone through a. A similar experiences of capacity. But it is to me, it's just kind of. It helps me with my acceptance. Understanding that no, this just happens in the world. That was one of the biggest lessons I learned from what happened to me. Because you put it all together, it's like, okay, 9, 11 is just wild as hell in general. Like that. How the heck, how did that happen? That's a whole nother conspiratorial rabbit hole we can maybe get into later. But that happened. My dad died in the Twin Towers. The plane crash. It happened when I was 12. So at a young age I realized, oh no, this shit, this shit can just happen. Not only can I lose my dad and my mom or anyone in my life and the impermanence of it all, but it could happen in that way. So it just made me understand life and see the reality, quote unquote, of what this world is and what can happen. And so now when things happen in my life, of course, is that innate emotional feeling of shock. Like that first initial response. But beyond that, when I take a be and think about, I'm like, okay, no, this. At a young age I realized that while shit can happen, good, bad, the ugly, and it's helped me process anything that comes up in my life. Even still, it doesn't say the pain's not there, but at the same time it's like I'm not shocked about anything that happens in this world. I say that lightly because some things are really shocking. But nevertheless, like having that wild ass experience at such a young age just taught me to be more prepped for anything that comes up for the rest of my life.
- [26:24]
B
Right. You were old enough that you have a, a ton of memories of your dad and basically spent the formative years of your childhood with him in your life. I, I take it you were extremely close with him.
- [26:38]
A
Yeah.
- [26:39]
B
What was he like?
- [26:42]
A
Now I'm after here. I've been talking to my uncle and one of my dad's friends. My childhood friend's father call me and share stories, which is amazing. A lot like some people, you know, it might be painful to hear stories. Some people avoid memories. I, I love them because it's like a new experience with my dad. That's why. That's. Again, I'll get back to your answer, but that's one of the biggest things in regards to my process of being a man. It's like, shit. I didn't have my, My dad only knew me as a boy and I never knew my dad as a man. So I kind of missed that opportunity to be a man. To know the little, like, you know, the not so great things about my dad. I want to know that. What did you get into? What trouble did you get into? I want to know like the darker side of my dad. To see, like, how similar really we really are. But. But through with those stories, I realized I'm a lot like him. Him. And this isn't trying to put a peg in. What's the, what's the saying? Put a peg in who?
- [27:28]
B
I was about to say round peg in a square hole or something like that.
- [27:31]
A
That's not it either. We'll skip that part. But I just realized that, that I'm a lot like him. And as I've gotten older, because they. I've been told a lot of silly stories. There's a prankster in a way, but in a good way. Just to get a reaction out of people. Every time he stepped into a room that I remember not only because he was my dad, he was just always trying to lift people up. Like he wanted to make you feel like if you're in a room with someone, if you didn't know, he wants to make you feel comfortable. And I feel like that's something I've been instilled in to try to do. When I meet someone, I do my best. I'm not always perfect at it, to make them feel at home, to just stay positive. But in a silly way, if that makes sense, he's very loving, very present. He worked his ass off, you know, he didn't go to college and finish college and kind of started in the mailroom. American dream, worked his way up to the top of the World Trade Center. So he worked hard. So I learned work ethic through him. But ultimately, just from what I know and the stories I've heard, he really made an impact in people's lives. So it says a lot about who he was. And there's plenty of stories that I've heard about him that I've experienced and also new ones that I had that just again align with things. I'm like, oh my God, I do the same. Yeah, so he was a special dude.
- [28:32]
B
When was the last time you talked with him? The night before or that morning?
- [28:36]
A
That's another foggy ass thing because I have a memory of saying goodnight to him and for so long I held on to that being the last goodbye that I had. And part of me is like, was that the last goodbye? Am I getting the days confused? But nevertheless, it's the last goodbye that I remember. I'm almost certain it was the night before, but he was known for wearing tank tops, shorts, even a winner and.
- [28:55]
B
My kind of guy.
- [28:56]
A
Yeah, he never had a shirt on. So when I saw, when I walked in, you know, your show, I was like, dad, I'm pretty sure this was younger than me, but I'm the same way. When I walk in my place, I have no shirt on. Like, it's just like him. But I remember he was, I think it was in his. Yeah, I respect it. I think he was in his boxers and I just remember doing his little old like in the hallway, about to go upstairs, I was in the kitchen and he just gave me a little like side hand wave, said good night. Good night, kid. I'm pretty sure he said he was always known for saying, hey kid and that was it. And now looking back, it's like eerie. Regardless, if that's my last good goodbye, which I'm almost certain it was like that was it. And again from a childhood of things that I forget, I remember that. And now looking back, it's one of those real experience that I remember, it's like, okay, that was the last. That was, that was it. That was the last goodbye. But I know a couple days before, I want to say two, three days before I went to a Yankee game. So that was the last event that we did together. I even had to like look up. I went back in history to find that game to verify my memory is not all. And yeah, we went to a game. And I remember he did his whole thing where he snuck us down to better seats, even though he had the nosebleeds. Tina Martinez had a home run, and the seats he took us to gave us the best view to right field. And it was a couple days before. It's like it was September baseball. And those are, like, the last two memories that I had. Well, before that, we didn't. We didn't go on vacations. You know, we went to Sea Aisle, which is great, but it's, like, still in Jersey, so. Yeah, see, that was fun. But. Yeah, it's cool. But, you know, I think that's why I travel so much now, because I didn't get. I didn't get that as a kid. You know, we were. We were fine, but we weren't, like, rolling in it. And the beautiful part about that was my. I remember having a talk with my mother years later, and, you know, I'm old enough to hear some of the stories. And, you know, she. She was. They were working through some things. Still very much in love, but they're working through some things. And that summer trip, my sisters were older, so they went on their own. Later they left, and it was just me and my mom and my dad. Then I left, I think. I don't know if I got picked up. So my mom and dad got some together.
- [30:53]
B
Wow.
- [30:53]
A
And there's a. I believe there's a photo of him. But she just expressed, like that summer we just. Something clicked again. They didn't lose anything. They weren't on the pathway to anything bad. She just. Natural marriage ship.
- [31:04]
B
Yeah.
- [31:05]
A
And she was like, something about that summer, that trip, it was just like day one again. And I. It's as sad as that is. You know what I mean? It's like, okay, they got that together, and then he was gone. It sucks, but it's still, like, beautiful that at least they got that. Because there is a weight to the way things end before someone dies. Even though I try to f. Even if you have a horrible goodbye before someone dies, it's, like, weird how weird, but understandable how we could hang on to that last couple of days. I didn't say goodbye. I didn't pick up the phone. We were angry and they died, but there's still, like, a whole lifetime of memories before that. That's really the truth that you should focus on, you know? But it's hard. It's hard to do. But I'm happy and. And really happy for my mom that she got that moment of just, like, Purest love and reconnection, if you will, or however she would explain it better than I was this summer before. So that was September, so it's pretty much a month or a couple months before. I don't know what my dates are, but it was, it was a beautiful thing that they got to have that like right then.
- [31:57]
B
Yeah, I mean, the universe works in some strange ways, man, you know, and. And it sounds like your mom and dad were living in the present moment when that was going on, which is a beautiful thing because you never know what's coming. You don't know how things are going to be. And I do feel like just on a general level, I'm not really sure how you feel about this, but in our society today, you know, like any other society, we have our problems for sure, but we're living in an amazing time in human history and particularly in this country. Geographically and economically speaking, we're extremely lucky to live here overall. But it feels like people get a little complacent about life and about the day to day and about things that could go wrong. You know, I think one of the things in doing a job like this is that I do get access to have to look at a lot of world events and things that happen in other places. And there isn't a part of me that ever says that could never happen here.
- [32:56]
A
Right.
- [32:57]
B
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- [34:39]
A
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- [35:06]
B
You know, maybe the probabilities are a lot less, I'll say that. But you know, when it comes to the worst things, it's you don't want to walk around with a guillotine over your head all the time and assume that could happen. But I feel like if people understood that things were a little more fragile than they think, you know, maybe they would take their day to day and, and their relationships and you know, the people in their life a little more seriously.
- [35:33]
A
Yeah. And that's kind of tapped into what I was saying about not being shocked. From my experience of what can, what can happen. I think it's an important perspective again, not to have your geese, you know, you don't want to. I feel like there's like many choices, but there's to simplify it, it's like the fear or the gratefulness kind of thing.
- [35:48]
B
Yes.
- [35:48]
A
You go through whatever anyone's going through. You could be fearful of something happening again or just happening in general, or you can just be grateful. It's a choice. I I honest, it's, it's tough. It pisses a lot of people off when I say about how much of a choice we have about just the way we think the way we feel and I think the outcome of our external world. But I really believe it's a choice. And I sometimes it's as simple as that fear of gratefulness. Like I could for again to personalize it. I could be fearful after my dad died. Oh my God, I could lose my mom, I could lose my dad. I can live with that guillotine over my head, which I think you're saying, and just live in that fear. Or I can be grateful. I still got my mom, I still got my dad.
- [36:22]
B
Right?
- [36:22]
A
And even if I got 10 bucks in my pocket, I got 10 bucks in my pocket. And it's, it's a choice. Even though it sounds like a fantasy choice, I, it, there really is a shift and it does go back to what you're saying. Living in that, that present moment. Because everything, every, all our fears are stressed. It's either something that happened in the past or something hasn't happened yet. But there's that sweet spot of the present moment of just being here and shutting our friggin phone off and just being in the. That's why I love these podcasts. Because it's like my phone's on an airplane mode.
- [36:51]
B
Exactly.
- [36:51]
A
And regardless of what happens if other people love or hate this episode. So we get an opportunity to be here now. And that's why podcasts are just so beautiful. Because is you live in that sweet spot of the present moment because all we have. And yeah, something may happen, but the way I think about it is we, if we're creating again, I think a lot of stress is thinking about something that may happen. Not all of it, but some of it, if not most of it. And that, okay, that hasn't happened yet. We're thinking of the most worst outcome. I may do that this might happen, that may happen. I'm feeling the stresses if it's happening now. So when you put yourself in a place of gratefulness and flip that script of feeling as if something good may happen, if that makes sense, it's the same, it's the same thing. We're thinking about something in the future that hasn't happened, that's a bad outcome and your body doesn't know the difference of what's happening now and what's happening then. So you feel like it's happening now, but if you just think of the opposite as if like the same exact tactic. I'm trying to explain this the best way I can.
- [37:43]
B
No, keep going.
- [37:44]
A
But yeah, when you're thinking of something fearful that happens in the future, you're putting yourself in imaginary state. So why not do the exact opposite? It people like, how do I pretend something that has. You're doing it all the time in a fearful way. So it's literally the exact. I look at. It's the exact same thing, but just putting yourself in a more positive thought that will make you feel happier and safer in the present moment.
- [38:03]
B
100%.
- [38:04]
A
Does that sound half silly?
- [38:05]
B
No, that. That was perfect. Working it out, basically, you know, the old science of your thoughts become your mindset. Your mindset becomes your actions, your action become your reality. That's. That's essentially a part of what you're saying right there and combining it with the idea of being present and not just wa. For that guillotine. I think that's so important because what I don't want to come across in the point I just made before that is that you should live everything like, oh, my God, you can be dead tomorrow. You don't want to think like that. What I am saying is that you never know what's going to happen. So when you're in a moment and you have a chance to have a really good experience with someone you care about, do it. You know what I mean? And enjoy it. That's. That's all I'm saying.
- [38:44]
A
Yeah, it takes more power and energy and practice for people that are in more dire situations. Like, I'm aware of that too, where, you know, I'm blessed to be in a certain position that I'm at that and maybe vice versa. But at the same time, I know people have it. It's like, how are you going to tell someone that's starving in some other country? Like, right, well, think positive, people. You know what I mean? Like, your next meal's coming, I promise. But at the same time, like, I remember I went. I was in. I was in Cambodia one time and I was. I paid this driver.
- [39:09]
B
Like, that's a tough place, Cambodia.
- [39:11]
A
It was a tough place. But some of the people, most of the people I met seem so happy. And that's kind of what I'm saying. I was like, when I think about these people that are in third, like a third world position, I was, I. I paid whatever. I paid him to be my driver. Literally all day I was by myself. And we. I was like, yo, you want to get lunch? And he's like, sure. So we sat down on the side of the road, eating on the floor, traffic going by, eating rice and stuff from our hands, asked. I was wanting to learn about him. He's like, yeah, I make whatever it was, seven bucks a day working the field all day. Sometimes I do this and I didn't hear any negativity, I didn't hear complaining. He was, he didn't express that he was sad. He seemed happy at his family. And I always to wanted just go back to that moment, like how much of that is just his mind state and also how much that is just ignorant of not knowing what else is. Like what else is available in the world. You know, maybe it's a blend of both.
- [39:56]
B
It's a blend of both.
- [39:56]
A
It's probably a blend of both. But then he sees so many, he's driving tourists around who's like me. I'm not that I don't wear anything fancy. But he's got to be exposed to some of it. He's not completely ignorant. But yeah, he wasn't complaining that I'll make $7. He's just, no, that's what I do. I work that I do this. And this really stuck out to me because I was like, what is. I just want to get into his mind. He's like, what is he constantly thinking of, of for him to stay in the state because he's not living a life of luxury. He's making 10 bucks a day max, living wherever he's living, eating on the side of the road with me. And it just always made me think the power of what's going on inside of our head and how much that creates how, yes. React in this, how we exist in this world. And I. It used to be very woo woo. Now it's still woo woo, but it's not as woo as it used to be. Now it's a little bit more scientifically based. I believe in it and I think that's part of the choice I was trying to point out.
- [40:40]
B
It's not woo woo at all. It is quite literally scientifically based we're talking about. And, and I, I'm not one of these guys that like excoriates technology at all. I love technology. I think it's a beautiful thing about human existence like this.
- [40:51]
A
You know what I mean?
- [40:52]
B
But this is a great piece of technology with so many tools in it. The problem is that like anything else, it can be abused and used wrong for people listening, not watching. I'm holding up a phone and the guy you talk about right there in Cambodia and you heard my reaction, like, oh, it's a rough place.
- [41:07]
A
Exactly.
- [41:07]
B
You know what I mean? And, and I've heard. So I've never been there. I've Heard so many people talk about. I, I think I'm thinking of the right place. Cambodia. Like in all. Yeah. How war torn it's been and stuff like that. But people like that who have understood the worst traumas and the least amount of opportunities, they're not sitting on this thing all day, you know, live tweeting or whatever. They're not wasting their life away comparing themselves to what their friend down the street has. They're taking joy in the very small things. And, and I'll be, I'll be frank like to call myself out somet. You know when I, when I get into those situations where you have a little bit of that self pity or that all shucks kind of thing. It's, it's not good. And sometimes like if I'm alone here and I find myself getting there to rewire it, I will literally stand up and be like you are living in the greatest time alive. Shut the up and have fun. Go smell some roses, Go outside, take a walk. Things are great.
- [42:06]
A
Yeah.
- [42:06]
B
You know, and sounds dumb but you do something like that you realize oh you know, you're right. I was in my parents house a couple years ago, I'm not now. That's, that's a win. You know what I mean?
- [42:18]
A
Yeah. And there's a little bit of. I love that attitude because you know I, I try to be as compassionate and gentle as possible but the way I was raised with my mom, she's a bull and it's, it's similar to what you said. It's a little bit of a lot of bit of for me. Maybe it's not for everyone but I think it should be is you kind of got to be a little bit of a soldier and get your. A lot of accountability. Way more accountability for. Yeah. Some things happen happen that we have no control over if not most of it. But at the same time there's got to be a little bit of get, get up kind of thing and shake yourself out of it. Kind of like what you were doing. Even if it's in a little moment or a big moment, there's got to be a blend of yeah, be gentle with yourself, don't be so hard on yourself. But also like get up, we got to get up. What else choice do we have? Because we find ourselves in these pity mentality. There's that. What is that doing?
- [43:03]
B
Right.
- [43:05]
A
It's doing nothing but it makes it literally makes it worse. Like the same thing with worrying. It's much. It's something I work out about. I'm in A good place in my life of just letting go of worry because I just realized it literally does nothing. There's only one outcome at a word. Sometimes worry and fear can be a. You can leverage it for sure. I think that could be a driving force. But that's again, that's reusing an emotion in a positive way, I think. But if you sit in there and get frozen by it, there's no benefit. So that's just like a zero end game where it's okay, this is not going to do anything for me. I can choose to sit there because it's kind of comforting. Like the sadness, that pain is comforting because it's oddly safe. Because you know what you're going to get. The scary part is trying to do something about it because you're not. Because again, we're trying to do something about not knowing the outcome. We're so constantly scared of the unknown, which I think is why a lot of people fear death, is because, yeah, some people. I think some people may know what happens. Sure, they're more confident, religion, yada, yada. But I also think that's leaning into finding the known and finding security in. In what we know. And the fear, the fear and all the opportunity is in the unknown. But I think there's a great opportunity to use the unknown to your benefit. And that's like where the excitement happens. That's where the growth happens. That's where. That's where the gold is. It's in the unknown. But we're so scared of the unknown because we think not knowing we're not safe. But like my mom, my mom went to Cardiac arrest in 20, 23. Heart stopped for 10 minutes. She was gone.
- [44:25]
B
10 minutes.
- [44:26]
A
10 minutes gone.
- [44:26]
B
And she's alive.
- [44:27]
A
She's alive. That's a whole. That's a whole nother rabbit hole we can go down. But the point of saying is, mom is very healthy. She has like a pharmacy in her cabinet of healthy herbs and supplements she always takes. She. I think she wrote 11 miles the day before it happened. Skinny, like, no issues. And then I talked to her about it. Just had her on the show again. She's like, you know, I did all these things. I was so healthy. I was scared of something happening over my health. So I took care of myself and the shit still happened. So part of me is like, how much of that, how much do we have control besides what's going on in here? Because shit's just going to happen whether we like it or not. But the more we worry about something, I Wonder how much that is magnetizing that event to come to us.
- [45:02]
B
I think that's so true, man. You know, and, like, I. I have amazing parents, and. And they. I. They instilled a lot of positive things in me. And, like, they're my idols. No parents are perfect. And. And if there's one thing I talk with my parents about sometimes, that is definitely passed down generationally from their parents, probably the parents before that. It's that they're always saying, like, well, be careful with this, because this could happen, or whatever. And that's where a lot of my, like, internalized. Some of my internalized anxiety comes from, because I'm like, you know what? It. Dude, you can't. And I have to say this out loud because I'm wired to think like that, you know? Like, I was talking with my producer, Deef, who's a really close friend of mine, longtime friend of mine, and we were talking about, like, getting so caught up in work and how it just been going for six years, coming up on six years with this thing, seven days a week. And he's like, you know, you. You gotta. You gotta live again. I say, you're 100% right. And he left here, and I went out there, and I spent a lot of money on plane tickets in December and hotels for the two of us. Again, I'm not taking calls from my accountant right now. It's okay. We'll figure it out. And I was just like, it. What's the worst that happens? They kick me out of here. You know, I can't pay my bill. I'll figure it out.
- [46:22]
A
You'll figure it out.
- [46:22]
B
You know, and. And there's something so free and about doing that, and. And I think, you know, if there's people out there that can relate to what I'm saying, you have to remind yourself this. Yeah. Because you may be wired like I am to think the other way. So you. You have to rip off that band aid and be like, I'm gonna think this way.
- [46:42]
A
You know, I mean, I relate to that. Again, Ma, I love you, but it's been. It's very. For lack of better words, a little neurotic in regards to kind of similar. You're like, but this could happen. That could happen. And I think it was a process for me. I feel like I'm the black sheep in my family and the decisions I've made. I am the black sheep of the family and the decisions I made. Picture out there, is it black sheep?
- [47:02]
B
Yeah.
- [47:03]
A
Like, with.
- [47:04]
B
Open that door real fast, just Open that door. Open that door. Look right to the corner.
- [47:12]
A
Holy. Dude, that's fire. I didn't get that. It's like I got the chills. Yeah, that's amazing. Okay. I thought it was a Chris Farley movie. That's even better. But to parlay off the black show, that's how I felt. But not in like a Outcast. Yes, outcast. But in a loving way. They supported me, everything I've done. So it's not even knocking it in a negative way. I just kind of went my own way. But I think that was. I wonder how much that was forcefully because of the way I was raised. And it was all love. This ain't a knock on anyone that raised me. It was just like very. If this can, that might happen, so be careful, yada yada. And I forced myself to. To, you know, take solo trips or move to California when I was 22 and jump into, like, I don't know what's. I don't know what's going to happen. And part of it was I was, I. It made. It made. It never seemed like a risk for me, honestly, because I know I always had a bed. Like, again, like, we're not like a wealthy family or anything. Like we were fine, but I always had a bed. No matter how it was a full size bed or whatever it was I had, I had and I wasn't. I didn't want to think like that, oh, I'm gonna do this, because I always have somewhere to sleep. But it was a little bit of an easier choice for me. But nevertheless, it was. Is going through these experiences of taking a solo trip again, moving to California and just diving into. Let's just see what happens. And whatever happens, I'm gonna figure it out. And that's kind of how it worked out. I truly believe everyone has that in them. It's just what you said, it's pulling the band aid, just jumping into the ocean with no life vest and figuring it out. And I think everyone has that capability. They think, yeah, you're scared, but you do it anyway. I got this silly little story I remember, I'm not gonna say the name, but when I was in high school and they like freshman, sophomore year, every town has this one dude that was like the. The tough guy of the group, the tough time of the town. Beat the shit out of everyone. He happened to be thankfully on my side. And I remember one time there was a fight that was going to go down and we were getting ready to like, just be behind my homie and his brother was lacing up his boots as we got ready to walk up. And I remember him. He's the tough guy. Like, I just saw him as fearless. Fearless. And he's, like, shaking off. He's like. He's nervous. I'm like, wait, you're nervous? And he goes, yeah, he's. I always get so nervous before I'm at the stomp on someone's face. First of all, I'm not. I'm not supporting that. Not supporting that. But the lesson. The lesson in this is I was like, holy, this dude's still scared to do what he's done a million times. And he's the guy, if you will and always suck with me, because I was not that guy. And I was like, oh, damn. That was like a profound lesson in something that I'm not supporting. But nevertheless, like, I know you're still scared. You're still scared. Even the most. The bravest people. It's not an absence of fears doing it anyway. And I think that's a big lesson. Whatever we do is just. Yeah, you feel the shakes, but it's like, once you get in it, it's like you kind of. It. It kind of gets released once you're in it, because you have no choice.
- [49:51]
B
And how you handle it and how you.
- [49:53]
A
Yeah, it can still go bad. I'm not saying, like, it's back to acknowledging, oh, this could happen, but, okay, then you figure out anyway. I think. Louis. So Bill Burr. I think Bill Burr even said. He's like, you know, don't worry about. What does it do? I'm paraphrasing. He's like, but don't worry about it then. If goes bad, then worry about it then. Like, then you'll figure out again. So it's just. Again, it just comes back to how we perceive it and doing things anyway. And it's much easier said than done. But then again, what the hell is easier? What isn't easier said than done anyway? But it's just. Again, it comes back to this just the way we perceive it, how it's.
- [50:20]
B
Every perception is everything. People have the same. The first impulse of wiring, I believe, like, that very first synapse is the same in every person. But everything that happens after that is based on how people have handled perceptions throughout their life.
- [50:35]
A
Yes.
- [50:35]
B
I heard Jon Bone Jones. Jon Bones Jones say once that he gets scared or not scared. He has some fear and butterflies before every fight. But it's about taking those butterflies and putting them in fucking formation, you know, which is so good. Because he's saying like oh, that means it's okay for that to be there. That's normal.
- [50:56]
A
I'm gonna kill myself.
- [50:58]
B
I'm gonna get ready, I'm gonna go stomp on this. And I'm nervous in here. But when I get in there, there Yen and those butterflies, I say fly there, fly there, fly there. Boom. We're good. Now we channel it. We perceive that as. That's the energy that now I can transform into something else which involves me killing this person in front of me. But I'm getting paid for it.
- [51:17]
A
Different, different choices, whatever. But yeah, it's even little things even not even profound moments. I did my. I did a. I was on a panel recently for some live event. It was one of the first. I've been on stage before but this is the first time I did it for what I'm doing. And I was nervous. I'm confident in myself but I was terror. I was nervous. Even though it was a panel, I wasn't the only one. So it wasn't. I'm like this isn't that big of a deal. But I still had those butterflies. But then once I just like I went up there, it wasn't not going to go up there. Sat there, started talking. Then all of a sudden like after I said my first word it was just, it was gone. Then I was like, oh, I'm home right now. I don't, I don't care who you. I don't care you. I care. But like it didn't matter but it was, it took just pushing through the nerves, pushing through that. This is just a small silly moment that doesn't mean anything but I think it applies to anything we do. 100 those freaking butterflies in formation. I love that. That.
- [52:02]
B
Do you remember you, you had said, going back to your story, you had said that when you came home and you saw the replay that day on 9 11, you just kind of blacked out and it was like your body just went into protection mode. Do you remember, you know, was it a week later, two weeks later to where you kind of for the first time came to. To the point that you can now recall what happened during that day, whenever that was and what life was like and how you felt.
- [52:28]
A
Felt. I remember, man, that's the Christoph. That's the crazy part. I mean again, I remember moments. I remember people always being at the house. Remember my brother in law just playing video games with me. And as small as that seems, I think he was just trying to give me a sense of normalcy.
- [52:41]
B
Right.
- [52:41]
A
And kind of not distract me, but kind of just kind of let's give you something familiar in the most unfamiliar of times. And again, I, I don't know how much of it, because it was 25 years ago, the trauma or just being a kid and just lack of memory. I don't know if it's the weed I smoked. I don't know what it is, maybe everything. But I, no, I don't, I don't. I can't even give you an answer on remembering. Oh, now I'm kind of clear headed because I feel like it was a fog until I got maybe into like college where I started waking up a little bit.
- [53:09]
B
But wait, that's a long time.
- [53:10]
A
It's a long time. But it's, it's not waking up. It's like everything was clear. Just. I just don't, I think a lot was bottled up for a while. Like my mom would always give me the opportunity to speak. She would. I remember again, it's something I don't remember. When I talked to her on the podcast, she would say, yeah, we used to have, we used to have, still have our dinners, whatever, once Sundays, whatever it was. And it would kind of be like a round table where everyone would get a chance to just. She wanted us to express but she wasn't forcing it, which I think she handled gracefully and amazing. But she said to me, he's like, yeah, you would just sit there and observe. You just sit there quietly, you wouldn't say anything. You cry and just take it all in. And that makes sense to who I am now. I'm, I like to think I'm observant, I see what's going on and I might not say a lot now I say more because I learned the importance of love talking about it. And I think that's the ironic part of what I have now because the conversations that I have, even though it's focused on my guest, it is understanding the importance of expression. And it doesn't always have to be words. Even though I talk about. I don't know if that's always the answer, but some sort of, some form of getting whatever's inside out because whatever stays inside us is going to turn into something else.
- [54:13]
B
Yeah.
- [54:13]
A
And back to that. Woo, woo. Scientific. It's like you get a trauma that you're not dealing with or expressing that's going to manifest into either rage or it's going to manifest into a disease. And then 40 years later when you get a tumor and you think you're not even Going to relate it to whatever we experience and fact check everything I'm saying, by the way.
- [54:29]
B
But also there's something to that.
- [54:30]
A
There's something to that. I had Bruce Lipton on the show. I don't know if he is. He talks about the manifestation of these diseases. I know James Lipton, Dr. Bruce Lipton. He's, he wrote Biology of Belief Biologists and he was kind of shunned from the scientific community for so long for what he believes, what he's expressed for so long. And now all of a sudden, what do you know, it's like, yeah, big shocker because he can't form energy in a pill. So they can't sell that. That's a whole nother conversation.
- [54:55]
B
Well, there's a pill that will form some energy.
- [54:58]
A
Yeah, yeah, Viagra. But no, I mean, I'm kind of going off the, the rails right now. But one thing he did say was kind of relation what I said about the trauma of how when I had that experience, my body bought my defense mechanism, bottling it up and you have to deal with it later. He explained it very simply. That really resonated with me. He's like, okay, back in the day, day, day when the saber tooth tigers are chasing us, your body goes into fight or flight. And two, so all the energy from your immune system and the internal organs literally goes to your arms and legs, either fight or flight. And your body can survive fighting this or running away from the saber tooth tiger in the moment. It can survive for 10 minutes, whatever, that's fine. Even if all the energy is going through your important bodily functions, it's okay. And your body comes back to normal. And then all of a sudden your body's operating in the way it's supposed to, but it's when you are constantly running away from that saber toothed tiger when this disease happens because all of a sudden all the energy is in fight or flight and your body can't operate the way it's supposed to, your immune system, et cetera, et cetera. And that's where the danger is. When you have these traumatic events and we don't work through it, it's okay to be there for a little bit. But we can't live the rest of our life in this constant stress because that's what's killing us, the stress. But then big million dollar question, okay, how do we release that? I think there's a million of millions of ways. And that's part of like the kind of, how I say is like kind of in grief, in this specific conversation, but you can and create grief as an X variable to whatever you're going through. It's like a grief recipe. You kind of. Someone gives you a recipe, this is how you handle it. You make this lasagna. You make it. It's either really good or whatever. You know, I'm gonna add a little salt here. You know, I'm gonna take that salt out, I'm gonna add a different type of meat, make it vegetarian. But it's about trying it. Create your own recipe or see what works for you. Like, take the blueprint. Cause I think there's some good shit there that, like, books or whatever may read, but it might not resonate for you, but it takes action and movement to try different things. I don't know, microdose mushrooms. To talk to your therapist. Whatever works. I don't talk to a therapist, but my podcast is my therapy, to be honest. So it's about creating your own recipe and finding out what works. But if you're just sitting there not cooking, then you're not gonna. You're gonna stay where you're at. And ultimately, if you stay where you're at, stay in that stress mode where your body is not operating the way it's going to, in that trauma, in the constant stress, and you're gonna get up by it.
- [57:01]
B
Yeah. And. And like, I talked to, you know, these different literal geniuses who are like neuroscientists and. And neurophysiologists and stuff like that, and they're always talking about plasticity and neuroplasticity and how you form these pathways. And it's, you know, goes right back to ha. Like that, I hope I'm not this up. But, you know, when you start to put yourself into thought loops that you don't release in some kind of healthy way or get out there in the different forms that even you laid out right there. You create these pathways that normalize that, and then that becomes your base. And that's what your body does. And to your point, it internalizes everything. And. And this science is absolutely proven at this point that when you are forcing your body into modes that include stress or severe mental discomfort or certain hormones firing at times that they're not supposed to be firing up with your sleep up your circadian rhythm. I mean, the list goes on and on. It's a domino effect. And absolutely. I love the saber tooth tiger example because it absolutely is like that in the sense that your body's not meant to function when it has to put all its resources towards One thing constantly that's in like five alarm fire mode.
- [58:20]
A
And the thing is the saber tooth tiger is now it's the bills. Now it's the whatever we went through, the trauma we went through. Now it's the relationships. Now it's the we see on the phone. So now it's a herd of saber tooth tigers in this day and age. So it's how do we, how do we operate with that? Again, back to the same we've been saying. It's the way we see things. Those neural pathways you're talking about when you say the same thing over and over again, it's going to create those neural pathways. And from my understanding, the only way to, to deflect those neuropathies to create a new one.
- [58:46]
B
Yes.
- [58:46]
A
Which. That's where the habit comes in. That's when the be like the Joe Dispenzas or whatever you want to call them that are saying the repetition of these thoughts. So it's not. You could be a lunatic. And which like I've dive. Right. I sometimes write over and over the same thing just to build that daily repetition. All of a sudden your brain does kind of become tricked in a way of starting to believe it after time. And people just think that you do this meditation, you do whatever for two weeks and you're like, nothing's happening. It's like, okay, you're not that good at it. Keep going, going. So you go to. My easiest analogy is you go to the gym, you work out for three weeks, you're expecting to be ripped. And no, it's a, it's a process. Sometimes it clicks a little quicker. Maybe some people's metabolism is a little better, whatever, but it takes that. It's the best, the best practice is a daily practice. And even if it's a little bit constantly doing those reminders, paying attention to how you speak to yourself. I don't think we do that enough. Oh yeah, like a little micro thought, a little annoying roommate in your head. I get it all the time where I'm about to like if you go to talk up, go to talk to a girl, what if she says no? It's like, no, just do it anyway and regardless what happens and, and replace that example for anything. It's like, how are we talking to ourselves? It's constantly. It's most likely negative. And it's not because. I don't know if it's because we're negative by nature or more. We're just survivalists by nature. And so we're looking for the negative, just to survive. And if we could train ourselves just to. When you catch yourself saying something negative yourself, just catch it. And even that's a start. Just to, like, be aware.
- [60:01]
B
Yes.
- [60:01]
A
I think being aware is probably the first step. Even if you don't do anything from it, just be aware. You know, I'm talking to myself, like right now. Even if it's just for one thought. Thought. And now you're aware of it. And then once you get to the awareness part, now you're paying attention to it a little bit. And now you can just literally say it sounds even like you might not feel immediately better. Even though sometimes you might. Like you said, when you get in that zone, you're clapping yourself up. And now you. You woke yourself up. So it can have an immediate effect. But I think just being aware of how we're speaking out loud, how we're speaking to others, and then just slowly try to just flip it. Even if you sound like you're lying to yourself, that's okay. Like, be a little bit of an actor. Because at some point when you do it over and over again, now it's going to be habit. When you talk negative, it just flips.
- [60:41]
B
I think there's also a line because people get caught up in this. Like, oh, well, if you're always telling yourself how great you are at something or how great your mind is at that time or whatever, you start to huff your own or, you know, think. You think you can't fall or you're better than other people. I. I don't think that's the case at all. I think that's something I always feared as well. There's a huge difference in how you express yourself to other people. And how you express to yourself. How you express to yourself is to be able to serve yourself in the best possible way, to put your mind in the best place that you can be a positive impact on other people. I think it really just comes back to that. And, you know, you're speaking my language right now because these are all things that I'm working on. I am that guy who my motivation in my head has always been, you ain't nothing. You, you're not.
- [61:25]
A
Which can work.
- [61:26]
B
It can work, but I overdo it. I do it at everything. It was to the point that, you know, until a few years ago, I never thought I was good at a single thing. Thing. And sold myself short and spent my whole life kind of hyping up all other people, which, that's great. And I continue to do that. I Literally do that for a living now, which is awesome. But I never hyped up myself and I, and I couldn't get myself to a place where I could say, you know what, you have talent at this, or like, if you try hard at that, you're, you're going to get there. Or like, you deserve to get this thing if you work like that, you know, switch. I, it's still, it's still in the process of switching, twitching. I've had to, I'm in the process. I'd say, like, there's some things that I'm, I'm better at. But I think it's also when you get to really low moments mentally and things feel like they're all wrong and when you've lost a lot, when you've lost a lot of things. Now, I have not lost a father or a mother or something like that, you know, so I, I think I've been very fortunate in that type of department. But in other things in life, I've lost at everything I've done done. And I think when you do that enough, especially when you're putting the work in and you take some Ls, which not always everyone sees, obviously, you know, you, you have to have some honest moments with yourself. And when other things are going wrong in your life and that all combines together, you have some honest moments and you start asking simple questions like, well, how do I talk to myself? You know, so I'm not sitting here saying, oh, I figured it out, I'm doing great. Like, trust me, like, even this morning I was struggling with it a little bit on a couple things, but, but you really hit home when you said, when you said, even just catching the thought and recognizing that it came in is important because I do have probably, you know, 75% more awareness than I did a year ago on catching those thoughts now, turning them back around and saying, now how can I turn that into a positive? I'm from New Jersey, It's a little hard. I got Italian Irish blood. But, you know, we'll get there, we'll get there. But it's everything you're saying. Like, even when you're saying stuff like, like, well, if this is woo woo, it's not, man. Like these guys that come on and, you know, say some things and people are like, well, they're not a doctor.
- [63:31]
A
Or they get this wrong or that wrong.
- [63:33]
B
Everyone gets shit wrong. We've seen doctors get some things wrong.
- [63:36]
A
Yeah, what was it?
- [63:38]
B
Yeah, I must.
- [63:38]
A
What was it?
- [63:39]
B
I don't know. There's A little error there. Right. So you know what I mean? It's like Bruce Lee said, you take what's good, you discard what's bad. And sometimes these guys got some, you know, the Joe Dispenza's of the world got some amazing ideas. There's some things he says, I'm like, yeah, he might be cooking a little far off on that.
- [63:52]
A
Yeah.
- [63:52]
B
But then there's other things. I'm like, that has evidence to it. And then when I put it into practice, I'm like, is that a placebo effect or is that. No, that's real. Yeah, it's real. You know, you can't fool yourself for too long.
- [64:02]
A
Yeah. But let me ask you about that. The. I was just talking about this with my sisters the other day. The placebo effect came out. A lot of people use the placebo. Yeah, it was just placebo. I'm like, okay, well what's placebo?
- [64:14]
B
Red pill, blue pill?
- [64:15]
A
Yeah, I think both at this point. Let's around and find out because like what the people say it's just placebo. Okay, but why did that work? What. What's. Because you was. It had anything to do with the fact that you thought this is a real pill and you thought it would work and what's the key word there? Thought. It's like, what the is placebo?
- [64:31]
B
Belief.
- [64:32]
A
Belief, Dude. It's crazy. I think. I don't know if it. We could go down the conspiratorial rabbit hole, but it's like, oh, feel free. Yeah. I mean, that died 911, I guess like the definition of conspiracy, but. But it's like I feel like we've just been. We're constantly brainwashed, first of all. Constantly. It's been like that forever. It's con. It's. Oh, today everyone'. We're in this age of brainwashing. No, it's literally always been like that. I just think it's been progressingly getting more fierce with technology. It's always been there. People like, though the government's always bad. The so bad. Yes, it is, but it's always been that way. And I just feel like we've just been shut down and shut down and shut down further and further from the original truth. We all know those GLP1 injections work wonders, but that price tag almost gave me a heart attack. When my insurance denied coverage, I was staring at a choice between paying my mortgage or paying for weight loss. Talk about a rock and a hard place. Then I found elevate Health compounded semaglutide. At just $58 with payment plans that don't require a second mortgage. Same medication, same results, but a price that real folks can actually afford. Visit joinelevate.com today. That's J-O-I-N-E-L-E-V-A-T E.com. your wallet will be as happy as your waistline. This medication is not FDA approved. Whatever that truth is, I don't know. But you think about before, like church and state, it was, I feel like it was more philosophical. Like ancient times, people were thinking, who are we? Where did we come from? They did these weird ass sacrifices and these weird drawings and thought about these existential questions. And all of a sudden it started evolving less and less about existentialism. Who are we to just technology and advancement and this or that. And I feel like we're in a moment. So one thing I realized from my, even just from my little podcast is people are really coming back to this question about thinking about the afterlife. Whether you believe it or not, where do we come from? Why are we here? Purpose. And as crazy as it's been the last five years, I do think 2020 was a big awakening. I was, I don't even care about the politics. I'm just talking about people facing their mortality, being alone and facing. I don't. I was, I remember my friends messaging me like, damn, Dave, you're thriving. Like, I'm good, but I love being by myself and I was more creative, yada yada. But there were so many people in my circle that really were struggling being by themselves and being fearful for many reasons. We don't get into the reasons, but it was the facing immortality in that moment, I think really shifted a little bit in a lot of people's mind. Maybe the consciousness of asking those big questions again. I think that's important. I think going back to that because we're so distracted that after all these paradigms we've been shut down to think, to think, to think less. To be honest, I think people need to think more for themselves. And it's hard to know what is even your own thought these days. Days it's really hard because I, I sometimes I'm reading, like, did I think of that? Was that something I read? Is that even true?
- [67:15]
B
Is that a headline?
- [67:16]
A
What is my thought anymore? So it is important to kind of shut the world down a little bit. As much as I want to pay attention to what's going on, part of me is like, I need to. I also want to stay in My lane and comp be compassionate for as many people as I can. But we do have to kind of to shape the world. We got to shape our own world.
- [67:31]
B
And you have to ask, to your point, you got to ask the questions that pop in your head around you. You know, I, I agree with you. I think that there's something to society being programmed over time, even if it's not intentional. Everyone always wants to put, you know, the man with the hand on the strings up here. And don't get me wrong, that stuff exists. But sometimes it's just like the way that groups form and conformity happens around new paradigms and stuff like that. And I always think of the Carl Sagan example. You ever hear him talk about like kindergartners?
- [68:02]
A
Not specifically, but I know.
- [68:03]
B
So he has this great, great clip and people can pull it up online. I think about this literally like once a day. We said when you walk into. This is from the 90s too. So Carl Sagan's talking to someone on an interview and he says when you walk into a kindergartner's class, the questions are amazing. Kids say why is the sky up? Why is the grass green? Why. Why did the animals live around us? Why does the lion eat the deer? You know, all these simple things. But they're, they're just observing the world around them and whatever pops in their head, they're wondering about it and they're trying to get farther and closer to truth. On the contrary though, when you walk into a 12th graders class, everyone's quiet.
- [68:43]
A
Yep.
- [68:44]
B
There's no curiosity or imagination. Very little. And he said something terrible has happened between kindergarten and 12th grade people. Kids have been systematically told explicitly, implicitly, or both, both that their questions are stupid and they should shut up and let other people deal with wondering what the answers are. And that is in no way positive for society. And for a guy of his stature to say that decades ago and see before any of this and see where we're at now, I think it goes to exactly what you're saying. Like there's there, there is too much of, you know, us having this most ubiquitous access to information of all time to the point that we internalize anything or just allow the latest headline or the latest click or scroll to influence how we think and don't think farther from that. You know, it's like we have so much that we have so little.
- [69:38]
A
It's. I think, I wonder if it's. People are. Besides, everything is explained by the progression of, I guess, the system and what we've been told and taught. But I think we're also just scared of sounding stupid. Yes, I sound stupid. I have 230some. I think I've sound stupid on every single episode. It's just ask. It's just, I don't know, like it is that childlike wonderment that is so important. I love my nieces and nephews because of that reason. They ask these questions that an adult would never ask. Yes. Because they're learning about the world and they just don't know a lot. But at the same time, that childlike wonderment is so important and that curiosity. Because I feel like a lot of people think we know every. We have all this information, we know everything. We have the answer to. We know not. I feel like the more we know, I start learning. I know nothing.
- [70:18]
B
Right.
- [70:18]
A
I like literally know nothing. And it's interesting. The more I know, I want to seek more and so just. I like asking questions even if I don't support the. I want to know both sides of it. I want to see different angles. And I feel like my. My life is like a smorgasbord of understanding. Where you said something about Joe Dispenza, like, I think 75% makes sense. Then there's some, like, whatever, that's fine. I'll take what makes sense to me, what resonates with me.
- [70:41]
B
Right.
- [70:42]
A
Thinking on my own, and then also be being open to other people's thoughts. Maybe they'll change my mind, but it's that curiosities. I think it goes back to what I was saying, maybe of having to know. Like we were a species that wants to know. You need to know. Because I think knowing equates to safety and security. I mean, everyone wants to be safe. There's a foundation of. What I think humans all relate to is that we want to feel safe, we want to be loved. We want this basic kind of foundational aspect of life. And I think it does come back to understanding that we're not so different, even though we are very different. There is a foundation that we could all relate to. And in this world of divisiveness, it's so important to just.
- [71:16]
B
Let's just.
- [71:17]
A
Is we can agree to disagree. It's a world of refuge. We have to either agree or fuck you. And it's like, no, I mean, you don't have to have a beer with that guy all the time. But it's okay to think differently because I don't know what you know. I don't even know what I know. And we have to find some kind of camaraderie and also think for ourselves. We're in a world that's being told what to think.
- [71:35]
B
Yes.
- [71:35]
A
And so important to think for ourselves.
- [71:37]
B
Yeah. And. And we. We fall right into the trap. I always say divided society is a compliant society 100%. When you get. Get powerful people to get the 99% fighting over that's not actually moving the needle more than 5% in either direction. There is no greater cover for being able to then take the actions that no one sees.
- [71:57]
A
O.
- [71:57]
B
You know.
- [71:58]
A
Bars.
- [71:59]
B
Yeah. Yeah. I mean I've talked to enough people at this point that that's one of those things I'm very comfortable with is the truth. You know, there's things I can affect, there's things I can't.
- [72:10]
A
Can't.
- [72:11]
B
But if I can at least see where I don't need to waste my time, then that I think that's positive.
- [72:17]
A
Yeah. And that, that wasting your. There's so much to pay attention to. There's almost too much going on. That kind of goes back to what I was saying about staying in my lane. Like I, I know what I'm doing now. I know what I want to do. There's a lot of things I want to do. But I can only. I remember I got called out for not. I don't remember what the cause was. A million different things that people are rallying for. And that's great. But I, I'm. I, I posted. I don't know what I posted, but I posted something and someone gave me for not talking about or not doing some kind of solidarity for whatever was going on in the world. And I don't know if it was what war it was, but I remember looking at it because I get a lot of talk in the comments. I'm sure you do too. And, and so I love you all. I remember I love you. No. Yeah. I don't know your comment section as well as mine, but I just remember looking. I was like, even if I did what he was hoping I would do and I said what he wanted me to say, someone else would have said whatever.
- [73:09]
B
Exactly. Right.
- [73:09]
A
And so I'm damned if I do, damned if I don't. And I realize you. I. We. Everyone can't. We can't please everybody. Can't please everybody. When I say stay in my lane. I know. I know what I want to do. I know what I feel like I'm here for. And if I, if. Unless I'm going to go down the political rabbit hole or medical rabbit Hole. I'm not. Not so I, I don't know. I don't have to speak on everything if that makes sense. Like this is what I'm. I feel like I'm here for. So I'm just gonna do and keep my world smaller and still have opinions on whatever else is going on. But I think it is important for me to understand that stay in my lane, like, and there's so much distraction out there. That is all very important. All very important. But that's not my lane. So I don't know what I do with that.
- [73:50]
B
Do you. Did you have points in your life where you were worried? I don't really know how to ask this, but this might not be the right way. But did you have points in your life where you were worried about being disliked by people?
- [74:04]
A
Yeah, yes, for sure. I think maybe I was a little self con. I think I was always pretty self conscious. But I also think because I had very terrible acne growing up. So as weird as that's a relation, I used to have horrible, horrible acne. And that was a weird time in my life, to be honest.
- [74:19]
B
You look all right now.
- [74:20]
A
I got of a couple with pimples, but your cameras are going to see it. But I think that parlays into like me. I. Dude, I used to. Honestly, I'm being very vulnerable. I used to like, for a while I didn't want to turn the light on in the bathroom and look myself in the face because of how bad my face was. And eventually I was like. But I remember during that time, even when I had. I'm talking like I used to go on, you know, Accutane, Accutane is like the last resort. You take this pill and it's, it's horrible side effects. It's a pill that you take. I think I like the generic version, which is even worse. And it brings everything out before it gets better. And there's a lot of lesson in that because I mentioned, how are you gonna hide your face? Like, I can't. I was in College. She was 18. It was 18 years old. Probably a very pivotal time in my life where I looked like this. And I just learned to, all right, this is what's on my face. And my point of that is, I think during that process I just presented myself as I was. And yeah, it was very physical, visual. But people a don't care as much as usually you think they do do. Even with all their schmutz in my face and how I carried myself, people were able to look past it. If that makes sense. Even if they did care, which you can't ignore it. I look like a pepperoni pizza. And the way I carried myself is really that all that mattered. And regardless of how I carry myself, people are always gonna have an opinion. And it's one of those things of just like, I can't control that. If I'm an. I can control that. But outside of that, it's just I eventually got to a place of. I just don't really care there. But learn from it. I learned from. But somehow perfect still moment someone says something, I still feel that. But then I think the real growth is even when I feel that initial. Whatever you called it earlier, like that first initial, beep. Okay, Now I take a breath and so then I can overcome that. So it's not. It's not. It's not a disappearance of being perfect and Buddha about it. It's like everyone thinks these people that are on this different wavelength don't feel it anymore. It's like. No, I think it's feeling it. And then what do you do with it? And then it's how you respond to it as opposed to react to it.
- [76:08]
B
Do you still feel like that kid Sometimes?
- [76:11]
A
Yeah, dude, yeah. Yeah.
- [76:12]
B
See, that's the hard part. You know, you, like, you can. The only time we see ourselves is in the mirror when we look. Right? So you. The way you feel inside internalizes outside and you have to change that mindset. I relate to what you're saying a lot because I. I had. I was really banged up for like four years there. Lost 45, 50 pounds. My skin was burned out. You know, my eyes were bulging. I just looked terrible. I looked like. And I fel. Terrible. I look like this shriveled up little guy. And I started getting treatment two years ago and, you know, got my life back in order. Put on. Put the 45 pounds back on. And like now, you know, if I look over here, like, objectively, I look pretty good, at least comparatively.
- [76:56]
A
I saw you with your shirt off. You look great.
- [76:58]
B
Yeah. But, you know, there's a strange thing that I'm dealing with where I realize I still feel on the inside side like that weak little shriveled dude. You know what I mean? And there's something where you have to. And I'm working on that. There's something where you have to rewire that thought and be like, you know, not that I'm going to go out there and, you know, look for a fight like it's 03 Russell Crowe, but you know what I Mean, like, you got to know, like, hey, you. You could handle yourself. You're fine. You're doing okay, kid.
- [77:27]
A
Yeah, we still got. It's just like. It's like deflating a balloon. Like, the balloon could be full, then little by little, that sometimes there's still some air and there to be let out.
- [77:34]
B
Yes.
- [77:34]
A
And I mean, that, that turning the light on thing, it's not like it hasn't happened like this year. I catch myself sometimes and I turn on it. What I do, I look at myself, I'm like, all right, well, this is what you got, dude. I don't know. This is what you are. What am I do? I could work on the physical. You can always work on. And people think the internalized stuff that you can't see, you can work on that just the same. And. Yeah, so I still have a lot of those childlike insecurities and sometimes just pushing through it anyway, kind of like what we already discussed. But it's not. It's never perfection, and it's not even chasing perfection. It's just the work that we do. And it's. It's not like it just disappears. Kind of like you learn to manage it a little better. And just as long as I just feel like movement, I. I just. I'm just a very big believer in movement and just trying to be better and not be so hard on myself. When I do have those days, if I don't want to turn the light on. Kind of as an analogy, you know what I mean? Like, if it feels like a step back for like, oh, my God, I did this, I had that donut, or I yelled at my wife, whatever. Never don't yell at your wife. But nevertheless, it's like it's okay to have those ups and downs, that cliche analogy of when you zoom out type. Everyone thinks there's a straight line up and then it's squiggly up and down. That's what I think. That's what just life is. And sometimes that drop is pretty heavy. But then all we can do is learn from it. And that's a lot of the conversations I've had about that spirituality, those near death experiences. A lot of those people are. Whether you take it with a grain of salt, I'm very skeptical, but a believer at the same time. More believers, believer. And a lot of things that those people are saying, whether you believe them or not, it's like, we chose this life. And if we did choose this life, we're going on a whole nother angle of the conversation.
- [79:03]
B
This is great.
- [79:03]
A
It's all, it's all a lesson. I think it's truly just all a lesson. And what do we do with that lesson?
- [79:10]
B
So, yeah, this is something I did want to talk to you about because it is fascinating to me, the near death experience people, because on, on your show you talk with people, people who are from all different lenses of dealing with death and grief or you know, having nicks with it, whatever you want to say. But the near death experience thing is wild because there is something, I mean, if I really want to get physical about it, like literally, chemically, that certain people that go through something like that have had a chance to go through that is touching the surface maybe of the ultimate unknown that all of us are going to have in common, but we all don't know what happens happens. And they have this little extra perspective into it that I don't know if it gives you clarity or makes it more confusing, but it is quite interesting. So first question, like, you've talked with at least several of these people before on, on your podcast. Do you think there's something to it?
- [80:07]
A
Yes. And you know, my, my, again, my objective brain and the other side of me definitely combats it a little bit because I have my jersey ears up once in a while because I'm aware, like I see a lot of people, oh, scam artists or they, oh, they're selling a book. I'm not listening. Right, listen, I understand that but like an accountant, anyone, there's fraud everywhere we go. So I understand that, that possibility. I'm sure there's plenty of people out there, so you gotta kind of listen up a little bit. But I've had several on my show. I've listened to a bunch. I've had at least like 10, 15, I want to speak, say, and there's a lot of patterns. So unless everyone's in on it, just getting in some boardroom and just discussing how we're going to scam the world about our experiences, maybe, I don't know, but there are a lot of similarities, all different experiences. And a lot of the patterns that I'm seeing is that, yeah, we chose this life, which is hard for people to swallow if that's true.
- [80:56]
B
Can you explain what they mean when they say we chose it?
- [80:59]
A
Yeah, again, this is, I'm sharing stories and I also partially believe this. We, we essentially choose our life where it's, it's not a blend of predeterminism. It's also a blend free will as well. Like I, I'm kind of explaining this from my understanding, not verbatim of some of the people said. But maybe I'm whatever that size a soul, whatever you want to call it. And they say based on past lives, I still need to work this out. So I want to know what it feels like to go through deep grief. I, you're. I might not know it's September 11th or I just know this my life. David. Like swiping through an iPad or like Soul Tinder. I'm going to see this. That looks interesting. He's going to experience this and he's going to try to do this with his life just for the soul's experience. Because the soul experience can't have this human experience. And that's what's so enticing for them to come down here and evolve, if you will. So by the nature of choosing this life, it kind of gets. You can take it two ways people might be from. I'm not going to. From the human aspect. I'm not going to. Why would I choose to lose my dad on September 11th? Why would a starving kid in Africa decide to live that life? Or horrible things that happen from a human aspect. It makes no sense. Sense. But what if we did choose that life and it gives a little bit more meaning to what we're doing? I'll say hypothetically chose this life. Okay. I chose this for a reason. And that's where the free will comes in, where you still can get it, quote unquote wrong. But also I've been told in this near death experience that you can't really get it wrong. So we're just here to literally just experience and literally just learn for our souls. Involvement, evolvement. So there's a whole nother veil behind that that I can't answer. And maybe they haven't seen it all, if you will, but several people have said we chose this life and literally all we are here to do is learn and we can't get it wrong. And that's where it gets hairy. Because like, what about fucking Hitler? Like, what do you mean he got it pretty. He got it pretty wrong.
- [82:39]
B
They should have let him into art school.
- [82:41]
A
Yeah. I'm just saying that wasn't his fault.
- [82:45]
B
Then that would have solved some problems.
- [82:47]
A
Yeah, but that's when it starts getting hairy where it's hard to comprehend. Like what do you. Like what do you mean? What about those most evil people in the world? How. What do you mean don't get it wrong?
- [82:55]
B
The way I'm understanding it. Please correct me if I'm wrong based on.
- [82:58]
A
I don't know if I'm correct.
- [82:59]
B
Well, how they've explained it. But, like, when you choose it, it's like, if I'm outside of life right now and I'm not born yet and I choose it, I go, I'll take that one. And then black hole brings you in. And now you don't remember the other side of that black hole. So in reality, that free will that you just explained comes in to the point that based on the environment you're born in which you don't choose. Allegedly, Allegedly. Allegedly. But more importantly, the way you develop and the decisions you make formulate you into this person that is either flesh for the better or for the worse.
- [83:34]
A
Yeah. And I think what you were saying, how you don't remember a lot, a lot of people kick back and it's like when I bring up the question, what happens when we die? To hear people's perspectives, like, what was like, do you remember before you were born? Exactly. That's what it's like. I'm like, okay, well, that doesn't definitively answer anything, in my opinion, because I think we have to forget, hypothetically, if we're believing in this whole theory in general, we have to forget if we've remembered all our past lives or what it's like before. We can have a normal podcast right now and have a conversation like, but that's part of the journey is to forget, have this amnesia so we can have this pure experience for our soul. And then it comes. Then it gets really hairy because I always, I've had plenty of conversations about child loss. And to me, I often don't put a hierarchy of loss, but child loss, whole different level, I think. I haven't experienced that, but it's. There was the hardest experience. Like, that's unimaginable to me. That's. That's probably the hardest one. And, and then it's like, how do you explain child loss, loss? And I, I, again, I don't know, but I've had incredible people on the show that have worked with that child loss experience, managed it the best they can, and turn their life into helping so many other people. So I'm not, I'm not saying any of those. I think every one of those people, including myself, my dad, I would choose all these lessons. I would get rid of my podcast just to have my dad back. So the human aspect, we would exchange these lessons to have our kid back or our father back, whoever we lost, lost. But maybe just saying maybe certain things happen to Expand our life. And that's the whole of the convert of soul contracts. Like, it's like me and my dad shook hands in this handless soul world. It's like, yo, all right, we're gonna figure something out. I'm gonna. I'm gonna dip when you're 12, but it's gonna launch you off to what you're doing right now. Like, the whole reason I have my podcast, which is helping a lot of people gratefully, is only because of my dad's death. And so it kind of. This theory and this belief gives more meaning to everything to me, whether you believe it or not, as hard as it is. Because, again, we're not. We're thinking from a human brain, from as, from David, which is, I would never choose my dad to die, but we're choosing from this, where I think maybe on that side just makes complete sense.
- [85:33]
B
That soul contract thing is.
- [85:35]
A
That's wild. Yeah. I asked a medium recently. I was like, okay, so you're telling me if soul contracts are real, did 3,000 people make a deal up there? We're all going to be in the same building in 2001 so we can work some shit out for our kids in our genial line? Like, what are you talking about? Talking about? He's like, it's very complex, but, yeah, kind of. But at the same time, why not? I don't know. We think we live in this world where we think. Again, we think we know, but people are listening to this podcast where they can't see us, and radio frequencies are delivering it from somewhere for us to listen. And I just think it's an invisible world that we live in all day, but we just explain, oh, yeah, it's radio frequencies. Okay, well, explain that to me. I can't. I'll Google it. But it's like, everything is so invisible. Everything we're doing in this. This technological world is invisible. That we can explain from smarter people. But, like, why not? Just because we don't have the answer or can't comprehend it doesn't dismiss it for me. So that's part of the reason of, like, I'm not shocked by anything. We'll see. And, yeah, I can listen to these stories. I could believe it or not, but as wild as it sounds, I'm like, okay, I don't know. Maybe, like, why not?
- [86:37]
B
Yeah, you have a very open mind. I like that.
- [86:38]
A
Yeah, it gets you in trouble for sure. I'm not like, a sucker.
- [86:41]
B
You shouldn't say that, though. I don't think.
- [86:43]
A
Which part?
- [86:43]
B
Like, Getting you in trouble. I think having an open mind, especially dealing with the most unknown thing there is. There's nothing wrong with that. It doesn't mean that the things that you. Doesn't mean that when you bring on a psychic medium, you're saying, I support and agree every single thing. They're saying. Evidence is perfect. You're saying, I'm just curious.
- [87:02]
A
Yes.
- [87:02]
B
Because even if, even if this person is crazy, but one per. And I'm not saying they are, but I'm saying, like, just bear with me, me here. And 1% of what they say though is like, ooh, yes, then it's. Then it's worth it to kind of sift through that.
- [87:16]
A
That's exactly again, Joe dispenzi thing, like 75% what I'm doing. And a lot of people. Tyke, I'm sure if you have someone on your podcast, people like, oh, Julian must support that guy. Must like. No, we're just asking questions because we're curious. And that goes back to the childlike wonder and what Sagan was saying. It's like we should all be more curious and just hear it out. Just because you hear someone or engage in a conversation with someone, anyone about something that I might not necessarily believe, but I do pull a little bit from everything that kind of makes sense. Maybe I think you're bullshitting about that or even if you are, I don't know, let's let everyone else decide and think for themselves about what that person said. And I think it goes back to that. Listening and yes, being more open minded. And my thought process has changed about the possibility. Before this podcast, I didn't, I didn't even know what a soul contract was. I wasn't sure about reincarnation. And the more I read, the more I listen, I'm like, I think there's something to do with. Do that.
- [88:06]
B
The reincarnation thing is very fascinating to me.
- [88:09]
A
That makes that I. I kind of buy into that. Like, even if I, Even if I believe in something fully, my fully is like 99.9. But there's a. You've heard the book Many Lives, many Masters by Dr. Weiss. I think his name is Fascinating book. I'll try to be quick with it.
- [88:22]
B
But take your time.
- [88:24]
A
We're chilling.
- [88:24]
B
Yeah, we're chilling.
- [88:25]
A
So. And I don't even have a flight book, so we're good. He.
- [88:29]
B
I do.
- [88:30]
A
What time's your flight?
- [88:31]
B
I think like 6:30. We're good.
- [88:33]
A
All right. So we're on the same boat. So. Dr. Weiss, from my understanding and recollection of the book was very institutionalized. Very brilliant man. Went to, I might be screwing up the schools like Harvard, Yale. Very scientifically based. I don't even know if he, I don't think he believed in reincarnation or past life regression. But he got assigned this woman that he knew on campus, excuse me. And she had some issues. He got recommended to see her because he was a very prestigious psychologist. And hypnosis and he takes her on. He knew a little bit about her, a little bit of a background. So he's just hypnosis to her. Starts regressing her back to early memories. That was part of his process. Hypnosis, where whatever. I think she has some relationship issues and something with swallowing water and something physical. So he took her back little by little. Took her back all the way to like 3 years old where she almost drowned and related to the water issue she was having. And long story short, after that session he was like, oh, she's probably healed. It's usually over. Always works. She came back worse. So he was thinking like, how what happened before three years old? What memory could have happened before three that would have her have it, have, have these issues? And so he kept doing his normal thing. And from my understanding, this book is from audio recordings. I believe that he's taped their session. So a lot of it is like actual transcripts, check me on that. But he kept taking her back. And all of a sudden she starts going to these other wild ass memories, like explaining her as a different person, ancient environments. And he's thinking like, where's it? And she's speaking it out loud. He knows the girl, he's not, she's not crazy. He was like thinking, is she schizophrenic? He was thinking very scientifically based and clinical and kept doing it over and over again where he was like, I think there's something to this. Because at the spoiler alert at the end of the book, he took her back to like 80 something. Different lives as he took it. And in between each life he would like understand what was happening as she would explain it. Different people, she was a different person, different environment and would fast forward. He's like, okay, essentially die in that life and what happens. And within each life, before the session would end, he would come, she would have these spirit guys, these voices that would say something very profound about the life or about the way we're supposed to live. And in between each life it was the same thing. And every time she would explain a life, she'd like, explain a certain character, like this older man that lived on the farm for a terrible example, like, who's that? And under hypnosis, she'd be like, that's. That's you. He's like, wait, what? And he was always the wise man, the teacher in different bodies, different people, different genders, but always be the wise man in her life. And the guy that she's currently having some kind of relations with, I think he was having an affair. That's kind of a moot point. She was having turbulence with that relationship. He would always be someone in that life that would have a similar tumultuous relationship, even though it might be a different guy, they might be different ages. And that's where the soul contracts come in, where they all have soul contracts in a soul family, if you will, that constantly keep reoccurring in their lives with maybe similar karma, if you will. And that's why we maybe have to keep coming back to work out that karma, work out those relationships. But you and me may have met in a different life, and you and me are not podcasters. We're brothers. Or me and my sister are. I'm her father. As weird as it sounds, same souls, but different bodies. And this guy completely changed his school of thought. He was institutionalized. And now after this one woman, this one experience through months of work, he was like, past life regression is real. We live in a different life or have multiple lives. And this is from one guy that, again, he's not. Yeah, again, people like, he sold the book from it, but he was already a established psychologist, whatever you want to call him, and then had these experiences and completely flipped the script. So that's just one book. There's countless, countless, countless stories of little kids, again, remembering past lives. I had people in my family remembering stories that didn't. Didn't make sense. But only how would they know it? And it's all out there. But again, the scientific does show me the proof. Where's the proof? Maybe right now we just can't prove anything in the court of law outside of testimony. And it's up to you to believe it or not.
- [92:20]
B
There's a lot on the bone there, man. So have you ever heard of Dr. Balanjalal?
- [92:26]
A
I can't even pronounce.
- [92:28]
B
No friend of mine, he was just in here. He's coming back in here again in a couple weeks. I haven't even released the first episode yet. Like, he is unbelievable. But he is a Harvard neuroscientist. Neuroscientist, researcher. And looks like Michael Jackson, too. He's got, like.
- [92:44]
A
Which Michael Jackson?
- [92:46]
B
That's a great question right there. It's from. I'm talking, like, early 80s Michael Jackson. Skin was still. Still tan, you know what I mean? Like, the whole bit. He's got the fedora with the hair hanging out, but he's Kurdish and brilliant, brilliant dude. Very into what he does. But his expertise within the brain has been specifically, like, dreams and illusions. And I think you could have a very fascinating conversation with him and tied into some of these things. I don't think I got there in the first conversation with him. We were doing a lot of different things. It was cool. But what you're talking about with feeling past lives and stuff like that, there is also, you know, a realm of science that looks at a similar concept that I. I think, call it a cousin, call it a brother, but it's in the same wavelength, which is like the epigenetic stuff, you know, if you're. If four generations ago, you know, your ancestors were massacred or something like that, without even knowing it. There's something built into your genes and your DNA from that. And I could see there being the next layer to that, as in literal reincarnation. And I've heard great people talk about this. I've heard great people talk about what they were like, who really believe it. You know, great fighters have talked about. Oh, I. I was. I think, like Conor McGregor was like, I was fighting on the Celtic battlefields in the 12th century. I was there. That was me. And I'm, you know, what makes sense pre before, you're doing blow, you know, maybe actually during too. But there was a long time there where, like, I'm with you, brother. And there's something to, like, the way that you're wired that I think, you know, not to bring my science degree out because I don't fucking have one. But I think there's. There could be an explanation that's beyond just, you know, the X's and Y's and in your chromosomes and your DNA.
- [94:32]
A
I agree. I mean, I think Kendrick Lamar dropped in a. Dropped a song called Reincarnation. I didn't research it, just listen to the song, because it was called Reincarnation. And he talks about a past life. I'm curious, see if you can look up if you actually did past life regression. Because he was. Unless it was just a storyboard. But he was talking about something about being a musician, if I got the lyrics right. In a past life. And the whole song, I think, is called Reincarnation double check that.
- [94:55]
B
But let's, let's do the lyrics. I'm not going to do it like.
- [94:58]
A
Yeah, you should wrap it. You should wrap it.
- [95:00]
B
I got, I got this fire burning in me from within Concentrated thoughts on who I used to be and shedding skin Every day a new version of me A third of me Demented cemented in pain Juggling the pros and cons of fame I don't know how to make friends I'm a lonely soul I recollect this isolation I was four years old truth be told I've been battling myself Trying to navigate the real and the fake Cynical about the judgment day I did pass life regression last year and it me up reincarnated on this earth for a hundred plus Body after body lesson after lesson let's take it back to Michigan in 1946 my father kicked me out this house because I wouldn't listen to him. I didn't care about the influence, Only love what I was doing. Gifted as a musician, I played guitar on a grand level. The most talented where I'm from. But I had to rebel that I had to rebel. And so I'm off on the sunset Searching for my place in the world with my guitar up on my hip Is the story unfurried I found myself with a pocket full of money and a whole lot of respect for while the record business loved me I was the head of rhythm and blues the women that fell to my feet so many chews But I manipulated powers I lied to the masses Died with my money Gluttony was too attractive reincarnated Very similar by the way, to a guy that he walked on, that he walked onto the set with when he was just a young two year old buck. But I'm talking about another west coast rapper, Tupac. Tupac would talk about this all the time. And I grew up on that. And I. That was when I was first thinking about, I was like, ooh, he could.
- [96:18]
A
Have been someone else before, dude, straight up.
- [96:20]
B
But I'm back reincarnated, yeah, Incarcerated and I'm forgetting the lyrics now.
- [96:24]
A
But yeah, I'm saying that song gives me chills because obviously everything I talk about but it's like that, like maybe in the next light he's still an artist. He's not doing blues, but he's doing hip hop. And it's like, yeah, maybe that's what deja vu is outside of actual event, you know, I mean like we have deja vu, of course, because maybe we actually been there two years ago. But that maybe that's deja vu. And all I'm saying is maybe. All I'm saying is maybe. And the more I look into it again, even if I believe in something, no matter what it is, I'm like 99.9. I leave a little wig around him because I'm a little bit of skeptic. You know, nothing's absolute. But there's some wild ass out there. My buddy, my buddy did a past life regression. I know him, he's a homie. He's not cuckoo. He's yada yada.
- [97:00]
B
How does the past life regression work? What's the process?
- [97:02]
A
So I tried it, nothing happened. So I need to I'm go back it because I think I'm a little blocked off. And that's the weird part because my objective brain overrides even though I say it out loud, what I believe. And I got some going on.
- [97:12]
B
Turn the light on.
- [97:13]
A
I need to turn the light on in the bathroom. Honestly, that's literally what that is. And I, I did it over the phone. The woman I'm still talking to, I'm actually working with her on some other ship.
- [97:22]
B
And your girlfriend?
- [97:23]
A
No, no, no.
- [97:24]
B
No girlfriend. Okay.
- [97:25]
A
And yeah, no girlfriend. And she said, she takes me over, essentially hypnosis. She, I think she put some music on, she talks to you or whatever she said, just puts you under hypnosis and starts asking you questions. Like I think she said, visualize you're here. She puts you in a place and then after that she works you through, through it and starts asking you questions. What do you see? What do you see? And then every, whatever you bring up, what you see, you go a little deeper, a little deeper, a little deeper. So you're under hypnosis and then you kind of just let free flowing what happens? But I'm a bad example because I nothing happened. I didn't. Nothing happened to me. And she was actually shocked because usually she gets everyone under. So I think I need a little bit more work. So it's essentially just an hypnosis process. I'm sure everyone does it differently. I'm pretty sure you can find on YouTube past life regression tracks. And you can do it on your own maybe, maybe those exist. But yeah, it's just an hypnosis process. Everyone has their different ways of doing it, but it seems like you just allow yourself to be relaxed, get under hypnosis and then whatever flashes of imagery come in, you kind of slowly piece together and keep moving from there. Like what do you see on the, on your Feet, what do you see on the ground? And you start slowly describing your environment. My buddy told me about one where he went deep under and he was some. He was in Spain and he was some kind of, I want to say detective or something like that, Something along those lines. And right now, just to fast forward and come back, back. He's a true crime podcaster and that's what he does. He investigates unsolved murders and stuff like that. And he was very, getting very specific on location and dates. And he was like, let me look this up. He looked it up. Wasn't like a famous dude, but in history was able to track down this very specific guy that aligned to exactly who he was. So he thinks he actually identified, quote, unquote, who he was. So there's sometimes in history where if you were like certain figures, you can historically look it up to see if it at least tracks, tracks his track, like on the nose. And again it back to like Kendrick and what they're doing now. It relates in a different angle of what he's doing now. So it's. Maybe we have to come back. It sounds miserable because in my. I'm like, I don't want to do this again. This has been already a roller coaster. I don't want to do again. But up there, maybe it just makes sense. It's like looking at. Pretty sure Rogan mentions it only to aliens. Of course. He said something like, you know, the chimp crazy, whatever. That documentary was about chimps, A really good documentary about how the humans are hiding, the researchers are hiding in the woods and just studying these chimpanzees. Like a wild ass documentary and watching their life. He's like, I think Rogan explained it, like that's how aliens look at us. Like, why would aliens come here to look at us if they're so advanced? They're just like studying us. I look at that as maybe souls looking at us like little champ chimpanzees. Like, they're living their life. They're experiencing these things, but they don't know. They don't know yet, but they're not supposed to know. And they're just kind of evolving and growing. And I feel like that's how we're. That's their understanding up there. It's a totally different level that we just can't comprehend. We only theorize and just, we just don't. We don't have the capacity to understand it because all we know is how we feel in this world in front of us. But I truly think this Ride that we're on is just. It's not that I don't want to take it seriously because it is real, obviously. We feel it every fucking day. Like, I feel a little anxiety right now. It could be the coffee, but I feel it. Like, this shit is obviously real. It's not to diminish the horrible and beautiful things that are happening, happening in this world. But it's taken a load off just contemplating this idea. It's like, let's just. Let's just go for a ride. What else? We're here. Let's just go for a ride and rock on. Let's see what happens.
- [100:42]
B
Part of the reason it not only makes sense, but I almost want that to be true is actually Death Guy. Yeah. I always write you something random on the mug before someone comes in. That wasn't very original. You were like, you saw me. I was running around when you got. I was just like, oh, right. All right. Yeah, death, right.
- [101:01]
A
That's hilarious.
- [101:03]
B
You know, a lot of people get very dogmatic, like, very religious people get very dogmatic about their specific religion. And first of all, I think a lot of people use religion for great things. So it's. It's an awesome thing, gives you peace in life. But there's people that will get so dogmatic about it that they feel like if 1% of it isn't as it actually is, you know, the whole house cards comes down, which I think is total bullshit, because it's like nothing's. We're gonna learn more as time goes on. Even if, like, the themes are right and get the general idea, then you have a lot to live for. But, you know, when you look at something like reincarnation and people are like, wow, that doesn't line up with Christianity or heaven or Judaism and heaven or whatever and start religion here in heaven. I think it could. I think it very much could. Because to me, we can't conceive, obviously, of what happens when it's all over or what time looks like or what space looks like or what thoughts look like, because you are a soul. You are outside the physical human realm. Right? It's impossible to understand. But I've always struggled with the idea that, like, you're here for this blip, this instant on this radar detector of life, and then you're gone. Even if you live a long life, 100 years, you're gone. And you go to this heavenly place where you can eat donuts all day and not get fat. You can laugh with everyone at all times and live in the Clouds and just be happy looking on for the rest of eternity. There's something about that that feels like it would get Truman show old. And there's something about that to where when a soul leaves this earth, good or bad, and then is in wherever the afterlife is. To me, there's something to like a creator, which I do believe there's a creator at the top of all of it. I'd love to get your thoughts on that later. But you know, a creator would be like, ah, this. And I mean this in a good way. This can be recycled now in this type of simulation, let's see what they do. You know, it would get, it would. And I don't mean this to make light of it at all. It would kind of gamify it in a, in a rather beautiful way. And it helps. It goes right back to what you were saying earlier, which. Then you inject and insert whatever you want to say, the human free will experience and let it fall where it may.
- [103:24]
A
Yeah, I mean there's so many directions I want to go with that, so I'll just choose this path. But there was the, with the religion aspect again. I believe whatever you want. It's, it's, it's all good. I was raised Catholic, went down that rabbit hole. And you know, I get a lot of the, the, you're going to hell constantly. If because you don't find Jesus or you're going to hell, find Jesus, you're going to hell. That. Oh yeah, all the time. And that's, that's not representative. All Catholics or Christians. It's just like, it's, it's a comment section. And, and I know, and I know plenty of Catholics and Christians that are unbelievable people in my life. I actually, I go to Bible study when my friend's father's in town. I'm the least religious there. But it's like he relates the stories to this life and it's, it's wonderful accepting. It's great. Anyway, when I go deeper, I'm like, okay, so let's say that's true. So God, Jesus decided to put thousands of religions out there. You get the choice to believe in what you want, but if you get it wrong, you're fucked, you're screwed. That's it. One life, one chance. That's it. But that. Okay, maybe, I don't know, maybe again we'll find out. But like what? I had another conversation similar to that. Someone said the same thing to me. I was like, usually I don't respond. It was in my DMs like, no, let's, let's. Let's go. So I went to a. A Hindu temple in Jersey, which is awesome. It's in.
- [104:39]
B
Oh, my, my. My head of content Alessi actually did a documentary on that.
- [104:43]
A
No, it's nuts. Have you gone?
- [104:45]
B
I. I haven't been high recommendation.
- [104:47]
A
I went there yesterday. It's like this third second largest Hindu temple in the world went there and I posted, I supposed a photo of it. And he said something like, oh, if you, if you believe in Hinduism or whatever, you're. That's not the way to heaven. You're. I was like, okay, so you're telling me 1.2. I looked it up to the fact check myself. So 1.2 billion people aren't going to like, hey, cool, that's cool, that's you. But what. It's a weird, crazy. It doesn't make any. It just. That doesn't make sense to me. But neither does anything. So maybe again, but when it comes to the religious aspect of it, I, I just. I just question it as I do everything. And again, I'm sure that could happen, but at the same time, if we're thinking logically on something that's illogical, I just don't. I just don't. Doesn't bother me at all.
- [105:33]
B
You and I are on a very similar wavelength with that. I was raised Catholic too. I'm not. I respect people who are. And I think that there's. I think when you look through different religions, there are amazing teachings. You look at a guy like Jesus Christ, who was a historical figure no matter what, you know, seemed to be a pretty cool homie, seem to get a lot of shit right. I think that's a great guy. Guy to follow, but I have always been. I don't know if it's like being a free thinker, but I don't want to like make myself sound like a sage or anything. It's just more or less like I'm open to the possibilities and I'm humble in the face of what I don't know. Because by the same logic that you just applied, that image, which I will add is from a fictional movie back there. But that image of Maximus means that he was going to hell in that picture because, you know, they didn't have Jesus, right? Like, that's not, that's not what he was doing. And to me, what you do in life, we're all human. We fuck up, we make mistakes. But you work as hard as you can to leave this place a better place than when you found it, to treat people as great as you can. And when you fuck up, recognize that and improve it and put forth some happiness into the universe and remain humble to the fact that it can end at any point and you have no control over that. I think if you do those things, things, wherever it ends afterwards, whatever. If you got to go through 12 intergalactic overlords to get to, like, the big man upstairs, I don't know, I don't care. But when I got answer to that, I'm going to be like, hopefully be like, I did the best I could. And he's going to be like, yes, you know, and, and that's it. That's it. You know, and, and if there's things that come out with evidence later that it's like, hey, we can prove this thing now. We're like, we know this thing. I might be like, wow, all right, I'll get behind that. I'm open to that. But the, the dogma of having to get into groupthink and everything or nothing. It is what it is. And, you know, I, I, I, I, I don't like that. And I'll say, I, I also have, like, a lot of, I'm thinking of a, A lot of Christian friends I have who have joined, like, other denominations of it because they don't with, you know, being told that it's just this one way with things. And I respect that a lot because they're like, in my opinion, they're more like, we love themes and we want to choose to live our life that way, but we don't want, you know, some hall monitor telling us every single thing and checking it off like it's a to do list. And that, that, to me is like a great use of, of religion.
- [108:03]
A
I, yeah, I agree. I think there's amazing. That's why I kind of take parts from everything the best I can. But what you said in regards to, like, the one way, I think inherently, whenever there's someone says this is the only way, I instinctively look the other way to see what else is out there, because I don't buy into that immediately, at least. And then I know someone that's going through something interesting where she was raised, still is very Catholic, very Christian, don't know which one she is. I know there's a difference, but she, you know, believes in the Bible wholeheartedly. But she also has now discovered this ability to connect to the other side, and she's in the process of figuring what that is. And from my understanding, from people that Know her. She's been pushing this aside for a long time. Again, men, because she's fearful of what her beliefs are. And in regards to. You're saying the house of cards might fall. I think that might be part of it. Where the Bible says one thing specifically about mediumship, from my understanding and lack of understanding. So anyone that's watching or listening, you know, take this with a grain of salt. The Bible doesn't dismiss mediumship as existing. They say it's real, but they demonize it. They say it's likely dealing with demons. You shouldn't do it. Only trust in the Lord. And there's only one example of a story that I know. At least I think it was King Saul. Again, fact check all this. But King Saul was going. Or Saul, I don't know which one it was. One of them was going into battle. His right homie, who is his right hip man in battle, died, and he needed advice before they went into battle. So he contacted the medium of Endor, E N D O R. And she was like, yo, we shouldn't be doing this. He's like, let's do it anyway. And however that resulted, my understanding, it didn't result in the best way. So that was the only one example of tapping into mediumship that has gone bad. King Saul.
- [109:42]
B
Okay, so this was in the Bible. This is an AI overview. I don't know if the AI is Christian.
- [109:46]
A
Probably better than me.
- [109:47]
B
Right. So just take that with a grain of salt. But this is what Google AI says, AKA the CIA. King Saul, facing a Philistine battle, visited a medium in Endor in a desperate, illegal attempt to get divine guidance after the Lord stopped speaking to him. The medium, under disguise by Saul, called up the spirit of the deceased prophet Samuel, who foretold Saul and his son's defeat and death in the coming battle. The story also notes that Saul had previously banished mediums and that his sons along with him would die in battle with David ultimately taking the throne.
- [110:20]
A
Okay, so it wasn't so far off.
- [110:22]
B
Yeah, no, it sounds kind of lined up.
- [110:25]
A
Yeah. I mean, the whole point of that was my. My rant was that's the only example that the Bible gives. So, first of all, it's only one small example in the entire Bible. And the rest it says, don't do it. But in relation to her story story, she's battling the idea that she's having these experiences and validated experiences that have come to fruition in regards to connecting with certain people. And she's still learning the process, but she's been pushing it away for so long because of her beliefs and she's trying to understand. But the Bible tells me this is bad, but everything I'm experiencing is good. So it's conflicting. And I remember asking, I was like, okay, I'm just curious, like I trust yourself with this is what she's trying to learn to do. But how does that feel or what does that mean for everything else you believe with the Bible? How does that have that domino effect on your beliefs? Knowing that the Bible demonizes something so aggressively when you're having these experiences? But you know, it's not, it's not bad. You haven't had these demonic experiences. Not saying those don't exist either. But you've. Everything you're doing feels good. You've been helping a couple people, you're helping yourself, you believe in it, you know it's good. But everything you believe in is telling you it's bad. And it's like that's, that could be. I can see how that's contradicting.
- [111:29]
B
Yeah.
- [111:29]
A
And it's like with anthropology and archeologists now, now just been for years teaching in schools. Civilization started 6,000 years ago, but now there's more evidence of civilization a lot longer than that. And there's people standing on the throne saying, no, that's wrong because it's the pride and what you believe in. When I think it's very noble and important to just be open to new evidence and new things that come up just because it tears down your beliefs. But I understand how that's hard if you've lived your whole life believing something and finding out that it's not exactly entirely true. But that's okay. There's nothing wrong with that.
- [112:02]
B
There's six words that are really difficult in the human language. I don't know. And I was wrong, you know, And I think to be effective at the job we do, you have to be willing to say both of those things. And there's a lot of people in our industry, by the way, who aren't. But you know, I think it would serve them well to be open minded to these things. But when you talk about like your friend using that example, just staying with that. There's two things in people that really matter to me. Your intentions and how much you're actually honest with yourself, I. E. Listening to your gut. If your intentions are good, which doesn't excuse everything. Right. The second layer of it is your kind of governor, which is over time, what is your gut telling you? And if your gut's telling you something like, well, I don't know. But I can't say that this is wrong, wrong. And you start with a good intentions on something and you have a self awareness like she did with her own beliefs and things that are taught and what she should look out for, then I don't see any problem with exploring something in the human condition that just might go against what a text says that could be interpreted six ways to Sunday. I've had a black Hebrew Israelite sitting in that chair, okay. He can quote every single line in the Bible perfectly. It is amazing. And yet his interpretation of it is he's going to enslave everyone who looks like me because that's what the 11 tribes of Israel are supposed to do. You know what I mean? So obviously love you, Captain T. But disagree, you know, at the end of the day, point being like, you can take all these things so many different ways. So when you know, you see the stereotypical old white dude, like telling you this is what you got to believe, it's like, fuck off, pal.
- [113:41]
A
Yeah. You made a key point there where it's still like my buddy who had on the podcast he has his whole career is based on Bible interpretation. And the keyword is interpretation.
- [113:50]
B
Yeah.
- [113:51]
A
Like we're still, we're still interpreting. I know some things are very seemingly black and white, but we're still interpreting a book that was written so long ago. I'm not saying it's right or wrong again, it's just. But the key word is we're still interpreting a book. It's interpretation.
- [114:04]
B
Yeah.
- [114:05]
A
So it is. That means inherently there's wiggle room there, let alone that it's the wiggle room of human belief in general to choose to believe what you want to believe. Believe. But I just, it's just like again, people just seem so certain. And that's fine with me, but it's just when I not have a problem with it because I. I'm at a point in my life like, you're on your journey. No matter what you say to me, Okay. I don't know what to do. But it's when people are so aggressive and leading with the fear ideology of, you're going to hell, you're going to hell if you don't do this, if you don't do that. I don't buy into that. When there's so many loving Catholics and Christians out there in my life, I know they're probably the majority party that are like this. I hope you find Jesus. I think it would really help you, but I love you either way type. That's. That. That's beautiful to me. But it's the forceful nature and the leading with fear in anything in life, let alone just these beliefs that I don't get the right way. And then I had a conversation with someone off the record the other day that was talking about. I don't look at the fear I being this person. I don't look at the fear as like fear. It's more like a, like a humbling. It's not like a fear of like, I should fear God and quiver. It's just like, oh, it's just a humbling of something bigger than me that's out there. You know what I mean? I like that angle. If that, if that's the idea of what they mean by fear, that actually makes sense of just being aware this is something bigger than me.
- [115:14]
B
Yes.
- [115:14]
A
And that's kind of how I feel about the whole God aspect with your question is like, I think God is just energy. I think God is literally everything, whatever the heck that means. But I just think there's just something. I know there's a lot of things bigger than me. Even, like sometimes I relate to the. What I think the work that I'm hoping, I feel like I've accomplished and hoping to continue to accomplish it feels bigger than me. And I think it's humbling and maybe be interchangeable with the word fear. Not in the way that we know it of, again, quivering and shaking, but just the fear can maybe be interchangeable with the idea of humbling. To know that something is greater than me. And that's kind of how I see hope. I think maybe they're interpreting it in the Bible. Maybe I'm wrong. I've just seen the opposite where fear is like, no, you should fear this because you're going to go to hell if you don't do xyz.
- [115:56]
B
Yeah, quiver down at the altar and you know, hold your head in fear. I agree with how you're looking at it. It's being humble and, and that's. And that is unbiased, that that's how I look at it too. It's like, I don't know where, why and how, and I'm gonna probably find out later. Unless the atheists are somehow right and it's really from nothing, which I. We can't even conceive that. I don't know how that would be, like, possible. Like, even with physics, like, it just doesn't make sense.
- [116:24]
A
Nothing. How does something come from nothing?
- [116:26]
B
Yeah, the exact Same. And listen, I've had Lawrence Grouse sitting there who literally wrote a book called like Something from Nothing. At least that was the byline.
- [116:35]
A
My bad dog. I haven't read that book yet.
- [116:38]
B
And he's so smart. But the funny thing is, when I was sitting here talking with him, I actually don't think even he believes it. I think he thinks he believes that, but he's got a lot of other things that he thinks about scientifically that I'm like. I feel like that flies in the face of your course belief.
- [116:54]
A
Do you think people that really get riled up and defensive when you question their beliefs or just bring up your own beliefs that really respond defensively? Do you, do you think that's a sign of people that deep down might not believe in it?
- [117:10]
B
Ooh.
- [117:12]
A
You know what I mean? If you're so, if you're so found. If you're so. If you believe in something and someone challenges you either. I got it.
- [117:19]
B
I think they fear. You know what? That's an amazing question. Question. I don't know if anyone's ever asked me that, but my first inclination to answer that would be to say I think they fear confronting the idea that anything about what they believe is wrong because it will take away the entire meaning of their existence and their self confidence.
- [117:40]
A
House of cards again.
- [117:41]
B
Yes. I, I don't know if it's like they think the whole thing's wrong. I think that they have injected so much faith into something that there's no room. There's no wiggle room. There's no ability to change their mind. You know, I, I, you see dimebag politicians flip and flop with the wind, right? But I think when we oughta, and I don't like politicians a little bit, but I think when we automatically, the minute someone changes their mind, call them a flip flopper. Every time. Time. That's not fair. There's sometimes where it's absolutely true.
- [118:18]
A
Right.
- [118:18]
B
But there are other times where it's like, no, that person just was given better evidence based on how they're explaining this. And you know what? Like for once, maybe he actually applauded politician for not doing something. That's scummy.
- [118:30]
A
Agreed.
- [118:30]
B
You know, and we tend to demonize those things. But I mean the strange thing about doing what we do is we can run tape on this. Over the years, I change my mind like I changed my underwear. Someone gives me better evidence. No, I do change it. But you know, it's like, it's like I get better evidence on something and I'm like wow, that's interesting. Then someone will come back and give me better evidence on the first thing. I'll be like, oh, maybe I'm back on that team, you know, but I don't, I don't care. As long as I'm not being facetious about shit, you know, or just going with whatever is going to get clicks or something like that then and I got to answer that question for myself. I got to look myself in the mirror. As long as I'm not doing that, I'm, I'm fine with that. And I think we should celebrate that more than demonizing it. But people get into these group think scenarios where you have to conform to what people are thinking, thinking and you get afraid to say something otherwise. I've told this story on the podcast before, but I will Never forget Management 101 in college. They, you know, one of the first days they put out three key terms for the semester and it was like efficiency, effectiveness and group think. And I remember looking at the word group think. I didn't, I thought it was a term they invented. I didn't think it was a real word. Like that's interesting. And then I read what it meant and it was basically, you know, when people get into a group and start to go with consensus regardless of evidence that they may think of for themselves, yada, yada, yada. And I looked it up and I was like, wow, it's a real word in the dictionary. And it was a life changing moment for me because everything in my life after that, I was 19 when I read that. Everything in my life after that, I started to notice where that word would creep in more and more and more. And I think that unfortunately within religion and beliefs there is a massive, massive group think short sighting that happens with regardless of religion. I've seen it again and again, including with many people who use it for good and are well intentioned to where they just have a blind eye towards how they talk about things or how they talk to other people. People, someone says to me like, oh, if I don't agree with this thing in their religion, they love me but like you're banned to hell. You what the do you know about it off? You know, I don't get mad about it like I used to that like I used to but in my head now I'm just like, there's another one. You know, I, I, I don't, I don't like that. I, I think you have to be open minded on a subject that we, we don't know the answers to.
- [120:53]
A
Yeah, it goes back to what you said. I don't know.
- [120:55]
B
Other one, I don't know. And I was wrong.
- [120:58]
A
And I was wrong. Yeah. I think that's. It's hard. It's hard to come by these days. And I again, I respect people that are okay. I, I say I don't know a lot. I definitely am fine saying I was wrong. And I would say it's. Sometimes it's harder to swallow the other time, but it's not as bad as people think. If anything, I think a lot of people actually respect that. I think. I think more people respect that than we. Than we think. I just don't think we see it enough.
- [121:21]
B
Yes. And you can't listen to like the know it alls and comment sections who.
- [121:26]
A
Are like, oh, how could you not notice it?
- [121:28]
B
Listen, it's that, that those are the people that comment. No disrespect to you guys.
- [121:32]
A
Love you all deep in the comments section.
- [121:34]
B
Those are the people, they comment. You know, they want to just be like, no, I need to get my point out there and I'm right, you're wrong.
- [121:40]
A
Yeah. And if you want to say you're up one nothing. All right, cool, man. I didn't know there was a scoreboard, but yeah, it's. It's just so. It's just. I don't know, it's just flowing with it. Man.
- [121:49]
B
Am.
- [121:50]
A
I think we, we again, we have to. We feel like we have to know all the answers. And I don't even think it's getting the answer. I think it's just the seeking. Yeah. And it's what it's like when they say enjoy the journey kind of. I've never felt that more. This again. Everything that I'm working on right now, I've gotten to a great place which I'm really happy about. Is truly enjoying this journey because I'm far from where I, you know, I plan and hope to be and whatever happens, happens. But I used to get really frustrated at the tedious. I'm still doing a lot of tedious, like my. I don't have like a big team or anything, but like the tedious work of like a small quick example I had. I went Back to all 200 and whatever episodes and re changed the titles, the descriptions twice because I upload on Spotify and this and I was doing and YouTube. So it's like a thousand times, whatever it is. And I used to stuff like that. I used to like bang my head, stand up and breathe. Now I'm Just working through it, I realized, no, this is. This is how it gets me to where I hope to be. And it's like, I'm actually enjoying this because at some point I plan on having all that handled. I'm not there yet, but it's like, there's no need to get all worked up along this journey as long as we zoom out and understand that we're on a journey, dude. Just on a journey. And it's just taking. It's. I'm trying to make things simpler, just simpler, because our brain makes this way more complicated. It is complicated, but it's just simplifying the complicated. Like, I understand this is complicated. I don't. Everything we talked about, about is a big. I don't know, to be honest, but so is life. And I. I don't know, again, what else to do. I don't know what else to do, but just enjoy where I'm at right now and then hope for the best. And whatever happens, we'll work with it.
- [123:27]
B
Then focus on one thing at a time. Stay present and. And appreciate the process, which sometimes is hard to do. I'll speak from experience. I know exactly what you're talking about. But it's also like one of the beauties I see in doing things like that, which is exactly what I've done throughout my career. Doing this is like, I'm never going to ask someone to do something I haven't done myself or wouldn't. You know, there's nothing that I. That is on this podcast that anyone, whether it be a lessi or deaf or Danny, who's on our team now editing that I'm having any of them do that I have not done a million times myself or taught myself to do. And I think that also gives them a lot of freedom. Freedom to, you know, go for it and things, because they're like, oh, he gets it. You know what I mean? So when you go do that, it seems like a simple. Oh, God, all right, I gotta change that. I was doing it myself, updating some thumbnails the other day. You know what I mean? It doesn't change. I still do all the thumbnails for the channel. It is what it is.
- [124:24]
A
But that's a good lesson to think about because, I mean, I've been doing this similar amount of time and everything you built is incredible, by the way, but thank you. It's. And it's. Honestly, I know you. You kept apologizing like, oh, I'll be a dance. Like, no, I. I respect that. Hell out of It. Because I get it in some capacity, obviously we're doing different things, but I, I understand that because I'm still doing that. And probably even at you built what you built, probably even more, still doing it more. But the idea of not asking someone to do what you haven't done, it's like, it's like having a. A manager for a baseball team that hasn't played baseball. It's like a different level of respect. Now, this dude's been here before, so I will listen a little more. But also having to do what we've done, done the tedious stuff, the little things, like, I'm still doing, I'm still posting. I'm still posting everything. I'm still doing all that. And having done that for so long, it just helps in the process for other people to understand and find similarities or camaraderie, if you will.
- [125:18]
B
Yes.
- [125:19]
A
And that kind of applies to, I guess, everything we do in many ways, but it also. We've been doing it for so long that you've done everything kind of at some point. You know what I mean? Mean? And then part of that journey is in trying different things, being frustrated, doing all this, and all it does is just make us better in everything else we do. And it's not just about a podcast. It's about everything. Everyone does that. Whoever's listening.
- [125:40]
B
Yeah, everyone listening, like, regardless of what you do, but especially anyone who started anything on their own. It doesn't matter what it is. To your point, there's all kinds of little. You can do what you love, but then there's a lot of little things in there. Like, if you're being honest, you don't love it. It's just a part of the process, and it's part of building that gene and building that discipline to be able to appreciate it afterwards. When you do get to a point where you're like, wow, look. Look what we've done. You know, I haven't gotten there yet, but at some point there will be that day where I'm like, you know that I remember. I hated that, but I'm really glad I did that. I do have some of that, like, where I can look back and be like, yeah, remember when I had to do that?
- [126:18]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [126:19]
B
I'm like, wow, that sucked. But it's pretty cool now. You know, that's like, that's cool.
- [126:23]
A
That's. That's important, though, because I think we're similar in the same. Like, we, we see. We see the potential end goal, even though, I don't know if it's ever ending, it's just we see something that we're not there yet. But it is important for everyone, I think, to zoom out once in a while. You know, like even like you said earlier about, you know, you're at your parents house and now you're at your apartment, insurance. Maybe you want a doper place or bigger or whatever place down the line with this. I, I'm with you on that. Believe I'm just for an example, period. It's just, it is important to zoom out when you feel like you're not somewhere which again, I feel like that. You know what? I, I remember when I was first posting videos, I was getting like 10 views and regardless of what I'm getting now, it's not even about the views, but it is a metric to see where you've come from. It's not, it's not a quantifiable measure for my ego. It's just, okay, just, it's a reminder to. I also don't want to be like, okay, I remember when I was excited about 100 views and now if I don't get 10,000 I'm like, what the dude chimes? Shut up.
- [127:13]
B
Like, right.
- [127:14]
A
I remember when I was getting excited about 100. And it is important to, to humble yourself, to realize where you're at, to bring you back to the present moment and not too ahead of the future. It's good to have goals and be excited about that. But you're not going to get to your goals if you're not here right now. 100, you know what I mean?
- [127:28]
B
I have a, I have a thread on Twitter that I started on March 31, 2021. I was just over a year into doing this and I had had, I think it was 261 subscribers at the time. I just started a thread that I've done every late Tuesday night or early Wednesday morning since then. Never missed a week to where I just write the sub number and it's just one a week. It said 261 period on the first one and eventually it said you know, 10,000 and it said 100,000 or whatever. And so it is a really good hourglass for me to go and look to when I have low moments. And I do to realize that like I'm very lucky that the goal posts have moved to where they are because now I'm not kicking at least on, you know, the peewee football field anymore. I'm, you know, I'm playing D1 college football and we're going to get to the draft at some point and we're going to be playing on the big stage, you know, but it's important, It's. You're making a great point. It's important to, to keep that perspective because it is easy to get caught up and just see the latest thing that like, went wrong or, you know, whatever. It's like you said, you got to catch that thought and then. And then turn it back around.
- [128:39]
A
Yeah. And then there's thoughts. Man, it's crazy. We. It's. Sometimes I feel. I used to feel like every thought was true. I used to think every thought I had to latch onto instead of just looking at thoughts and just letting them go by, if that makes sense. Because again, I think we think of everything. Think of the worst case scenario, best case scenario, and which one do you latch on to? And I think it's making a choice which one you want to latch onto as opposed to catching every thought that goes back by. We think about so many freaking things every day. It's like thousands and tens of thousands of thoughts and which one are we going to latch on to? And that's where I think the choice comes in. And we, we, I think, simplifying it and just choosing this thought because what else am I going to do? Am I going to chase every thought? No, it's impossible. But it all, it. Honestly, everything we spoke about always comes down to what you and me and anyone all listening has gone through. It's like even little things like the path that my sister brought it up. We were talking about what, you know, the show, yada yada, and all the other jobs. I've had a million different jobs, jobs. And then I look back because as much as important is to be at the present moment, I think I, I like to look back again as a humbling experience as opposed to like a dwelling experience. And every job that I've had got me to where I was now. And I'm able to look at what I learned from each job when in the moment now I don't look at it like that, but in the moment of those jobs, like, this is. I don't want to do this. I'm literally working a pyramid scheme selling frozen cheesecakes in a Costco. Like, what the hell am I doing? But now looking back, I'm like, oh, no. I learned so much just from that job and that experience. And sometimes I'm at a point now where whenever I'm going through the. As psychotic as it sounds and almost toxic positivity, I'm like, there's something in here I'm going to use later. Yes, there's something here I'm going to use later. I don't know what it is yet. And it's not about always finding the now, but it's. I just feel like everything I go through, I'm like, not everything sometimes is whatever, whatever experience. But for the most part, like, no, there's. There's going to be something. There's going to be something here that's going to benefit me, like, later, instead of saying, oh, this experience is going to screw me up later. It's a choice to make. Like, yeah, it's changing me up. I'm. I'm going to take a different path because of this, but I don't know what it is, but it's, it's going to help me out down the road sometime. And I think that's what the choice is.
- [130:37]
B
Yes. And it's a choice. It's a choice how you look at it. You just. In the moment, you tend to, you know, like, we get afraid of, we get afraid of time. Right. You think about that thing you got to do. And what you don't consciously realize when you're thinking about it is the reason you're. You're dreading it is because, oh, if I go to redo those 100 thumbnails, that's going to take nine straight hours of sitting in front of the computer. But like, I put in nine hours now it pays off, gets X amount more eyeballs to my business, which is what I want to do, then I'm going to be happy about that in nine days. I'm not going to be thinking about those nine hours.
- [131:15]
A
Yeah. But also the thought, like, when I've done that and still, still do it, I'm like, I might not even do anything. Anything. And I've had, I've had episodes, I've revamped and nothing happened two years later or however long. And sometimes I see a random 10,000 view boost and it works, but I understand as I'm doing, I'm like, oh, this might. I think it should work. It's definitely going to be a good thing. But also it might do nothing. But I'm still going to do anyway. Just like, see, this is, I know this is the move to do, but also being like, okay, if it doesn't work, I'm so happy I did it.
- [131:40]
B
Yeah.
- [131:40]
A
So it's like the idea, it's. It's not living by the guillotine like you said earlier, but being aware of the guillotine and being okay with the guillotine.
- [131:47]
B
Yes. You know, it's like you've seen that image, the picture of the man digging underground through the. Through the dirt. And it shows two different men digging through the dirt. And one stops and gets pissed off and tired and turns around, and you can see the gold is like a meter away. And the other keeps going and finds the gold. That's what it is, man. You're not going to find gold at every spot, but you have to keep moving in that direction because, like, these 10 things that. That didn't work lead you to the idea that goes, aha, that's gonna work.
- [132:17]
A
Yes. You know, and that's kind of part of the conversations that I have where it's. If I say something that is something I don't believe in or listen to something I don't believe in. Even if you don't agree with me or the person talking, it creates other thoughts. It's like, there's no bad idea type. That's why I love. I spew out most of my conversations, my friends. I don't like talking about people. It's either ideas, cracking a joke or something like that. And I like. I'd rather say it or spew, view it. Because even if it's stupid or this, that, and the other, even I don't think anything's stupid. It. They might disagree with me, or you might just. I might disagree with you. But then it creates another thought process that takes you somewhere else. And that's. That's the idea of dialogue and debate and sharing and disagreeing because it creates a different thought process. When I said earlier that people don't. I feel like people need to think more on their own. And it's confusing.
- [133:01]
B
It's very confusing.
- [133:03]
A
It's all confusing. But I did want to say one thing about the kind of not finding the lesson in the moment. But back to what I said earlier about my mom in 2023 when she went to cardiac arrest. I do remember while I'm, like, by her bed in the ICU, breathing tube, not sure if she's even going to make it from there. I found myself so present in that moment where I feel like normally I would be, you know, crying, sweating, worried about what to do next. But me and my sisters, I mean, they'd have to speak for themselves. But it was. I was like, okay. Okay. It was weird. It was very weird being so present and in the moment, knowing that not only did I believe it was going to be okay, even if it wasn't going to be okay, but it was just staying calm under this most stressful situation that I realized I don't think I would react this way if we hadn't gone through what we gone through when I was a kid.
- [133:51]
B
Yeah.
- [133:51]
A
And again, it was. It's again using what we've experienced as a little tool belt for our. The rest of our lives. And it's not just. It doesn't make it. It kind of made it easier to be honest, but it's still not easy. It just gives you. We got to look at these experiences. It's another. Another notch. It's another notch that you don't know how you're going to use it later, but I believe that we will. And that was an exact moment where I was like, I was very present. My mom's looking like she's about to die in front of us, and me and my sister are still cracking jokes because I know my mom would want that. But we're able to just. That was just staying present as opposed to hyper focusing on, is she going to be all right? Of course, that's part of. Of it. But every time we would get news and finally when she got out of bed and she was like, I've said this before. She's like Nemo from our dory from Finding Nemo. She would forget every three seconds. And of course, at that point I was like, oh, my God, she can be like this forever. I was like, let's see, Maybe it's the Chinese farmer. Dog is a Chinese farmer. Let's just see. Maybe, let's see. You know the Chinese farmer story.
- [134:45]
B
I don't. I'm just going to go with it.
- [134:47]
A
Cool, thanks.
- [134:49]
B
I was. I was letting you run.
- [134:50]
A
I was not.
- [134:51]
B
And I was like, yep, you're a real podcast.
- [134:53]
A
You just gotta let it go, you know?
- [134:54]
B
But you're free to explain it.
- [134:56]
A
Let's explain for some context.
- [134:57]
B
He's like, it's like the Chinese farm.
- [134:58]
A
Like, yeah, maybe that's one thing you might want to pull up. So I don't.
- [135:01]
B
I don't.
- [135:02]
A
I don't butcher it. Well, that's. We say that at the end, but it was something along the lines of. And maybe it's better for you to read it verbatim, but it was something along the lines of this Chinese farmer and his son were farming, and all of a sudden this stray horse comes about and the son gets excited. They found a brand new horse that they'll be able to keep. Keep. A neighbor comes by and goes, oh, My God, you're so lucky you found this horse. And now it's a free, beautiful stallion. Now it's yours. And the Chinese farmer goes, we'll see. Or maybe. Or we'll see. Next I know, the Calgary comes in and no, sorry, the. The son is riding the horse, practicing on it, falls off, breaks his leg, and. And the neighbor comes by, goes, oh, my God, if you didn't find this horse, you're someone that fell and broke his leg. And he goes, maybe, we'll see. All of a sudden the Calgary comes and starts drafting kids from around the town to go to this next battle. Battle. And all of a sudden the neighbor comes by, learning that he didn't get drafted because he had a broken leg. And he goes, oh, my God, if you didn't find that horse, he didn't fall off his leg. Your son will be at war right now. And he goes, we'll see. As I feel like it's. That it's a balance of. You want to be optimistic, but it's kind of a neutral sweet spot of like being grateful, still not focusing on this and not being. It's like a high and low. Just like. Let's just see before you panic, before you get too excited. I'm not saying don't celebrate the win wins. Don't enjoy the positivity. I think that's part of it. Maybe that's the one hair on the story, but nevertheless, just kind of in this neutral zone of we'll see. And that's exactly where I found myself. By my mom's bedside with a breathing tube. And I was like, okay, this is where we're at now. Do whatever's necessary. Take action. Look out for my sisters, look out for my family. But we'll see. It's out of my control. Except what's going on up here again keeps going back to the same shit you're talking about.
- [136:40]
B
Letting the butterfly effect take place and.
- [136:44]
A
Maybe form those together like you said. I don't know.
- [136:46]
B
Yeah. You ever seen the movie the Curious Case of Benjamin Button?
- [136:49]
A
I haven't seen all of. I just remember that one scene that. I remember that one scene. Where. Did you ever see Secret Life? Let me you talk first. No, no, go ahead. You ever see Secret Life of Walter Mitty?
- [136:59]
B
Actually, no.
- [137:00]
A
Phenomenal. One of my favorite movies. There's a scene of Ben Stiller making fun of that movie in that movie, and that's my only recollection of that movie. So I. You haven't seen it?
- [137:08]
B
Well, there's. There's A great scene in there. Spoiler alert. Where you know, the concept of the movie is also, it's, it's, it's one I watch from time to time because there's such a great lesson in it. Essentially, this baby is born as an old man and lives backwards. And it's exactly what it sounds like. And so Brad Pitt is playing the baby old man that turns, eventually turns into the baby. And, and you know, he falls in love with this girl who be who was his age but looked a lot younger than him, obviously because he was old when he was a kid. But he falls in love with this girl who becomes Cate Blanchett. And you know, they're kind of going through those years where she's out dating other guys and he wants to be with her but can't and she's like this award winning dancer and ends up. It takes her to Paris and he tells the story of a day where, where it all ended for her. And he describes how it starts with this other random woman whose alarm didn't go off and went off two minutes later. So then the cab driver took an extra two minutes and then decided to get a coffee with his time, so it was an extra 4. And then the lady got in the car, which meant they got caught behind this bus and so on and so on. And then eventually he said if one of these things hadn't happened, she would have walked through and it shows Cate Blanchett walking out of the back of the studio and she would have been two steps ahead and the cab wouldn't hit her, but instead the cab jab hits her and she didn't die, but she broke her, her leg in five places so she couldn't dance anymore. And the reality of it is it was one of the impetuses that ended up bringing them back together, despite the fact that that was a very low moment for her. And like the love kind of came out of that. And so, you know, you ask someone like that in this fictional example, but yes, someone like that, oh, would you kill to be able to dance like you had your entire life and been a, you know, a Michael Jordan level type dancer traveling the world doing it and you can't do that anymore. Yes. But if it also got you to a place where you went through that low moment and then you got maybe the most important thing in life figured out in which she came together with, with someone she loved and then ended up having a kid with them. Spoiler alert. You know, it's like there's something very beautiful about that And I, I always think about that with examples like your story because you'd give anything to have your dad back and to not go through that. But you know that you can't change that reality. That is what it, it is. You got 12 great years with them. You have amazing memories with him. Your family got to be raised by him. So you had a lot of positive there too. And now you guys, and focusing on you in particular, you've had to take that challenge and formulate your life through it and respond to it in ways that also has helped you find your own meaning and purpose and allowed you to help a lot of other people as well and give that perspective. So, so again, you'd love to have your dad back. I'm not saying you wouldn't take that trade in a second, but seeing as you can't change it, you have used that for positive forces and you know, you're a young guy where a lot of things are probably still going to happen to you in your life that are going to be great, that are a result of that butterfly effect. That's a, it's a mind to think about. I'm glad I can't relate to it, but have you ever thought about it that way?
- [140:23]
A
Yeah. And I think it comes back to, and it's a beautiful story. I think think it's the will see kind of thing. And the weird thing is I'm blessed to be in a position that anyone else can do first of all. But this platform that I'm, I have has really, it's, I'm, I'm seeing it now, now that has a decent following that it's really, it's genuinely helping people and which helps me keep going. But it was, that was like a longer will see. Like obviously there's a lot of, there's a lot of will see moments that have come to fruition.
- [140:50]
B
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- [141:22]
A
Happened to my mom in 2023 to see how me and my sisters operated together was seamless. And I know, I understand the family dynamic for so many experiences that I've heard are very complicated about anything you go through. The relationships aren't this tight and one person reacts like this and it just complicates it. So like the family dynamic, relationship dynamic can really throw a hair in a lot of situations specific to loss and this and that. But we just operated in such a way that I was witnessing live and appreciating and being grateful for in the moment that came from that experience. We're always very close. But granted, if that didn't happen, it was my dad for the first time two years ago, my mom for the first time. I had both my parents. I don't know who knows if it would have been like that. And that was like a will see moment that came to fruition of we. We were able to operate this horrible situation in the most beautiful way possible because of that. And then we're so much closer because of it.
- [142:11]
B
It.
- [142:11]
A
My. Some of my friends are so much closer. I see the world differently because of it, because I chose to choose that path and I'm happy the way I see the world. And again, this podcast was born and now because that's like this whole weird contract we were talking later, who knows if. Which I've been told by medium, several, like different ones, who knows if they're just coming up with the same theory. But again, they're telling me the same thing, which is like, listen, I hope you take this the right way because it is sensitive, but your dad died so you can be on the journey that you're on right now. And now look how many people you're happy helping. And again, it's one of those balancing act that you just said, yeah, sure, I would take my dad to not have this, but because my dad died, now I have this podcast helping a lot of people and that's the will see. That's like a longer road of the will see. And like, look what happened. And again, I'm not trading it, but it is a blend of the best thing that could ever happen to you might not. Might not turn out to be the best in the happy, but the worst thing that happened to you might turn out to be a beautiful thing. And. And you can't change the worst thing that happened to you once it happened. Right? Like what you were saying, you do what you can with what you have and look what it turned out to be. Even obviously you got fired from your job and it's like, now you're screwed. You're stressed for bills six months later, now you're working your dream job. I don't Know, like a silly example like that. Like, it's just a, it's a will see. I don't, don't know what else to say by worrying about what hasn't happened yet. That does nothing for me.
- [143:27]
B
Agreed.
- [143:28]
A
It does nothing for me.
- [143:29]
B
Real quick, David, this is, this is going great. I just got to go the bathroom.
- [143:31]
A
Yeah. Take a piss. All right. We.
- [143:34]
B
We'll be right back. All right, we're back. You. You and I had been talking and it came up through a lot of those conversations, but we were specifically starting to get into some of the near death experience stuff a little bit ago. And like I said, you've talked with, with some people who have had that on your podcast. Is there anyone you've spoken with whose story resonated or stood out the most?
- [143:57]
A
Yeah, I mean, again, a lot of them are similar, but very different. I want to say Dr. Mary Hensley.
- [144:05]
B
Okay.
- [144:06]
A
She had an outer body experience, which a lot of them have with the similarities are they come out of body and they're able to see the scene below them. Some things that they were able to verify later. I believe her story. I'd have to, hopefully I'm not butchering it, but it was something along the lines of her explaining when she came out of it to the doctor that something happened, happened, that he was like confused because he was like, there's no way you would have known that that kind of verified her seeing what she thought she saw. But there's one specific moment in the way she explained it that I believe it's going to be like. And it was kind of what I explained earlier when she started transitioning and she had like that buffer zone through the tunnel, whatever you want to call it. And then she gets to the quote, unquote, other side, she started saying, saying, oh, oh, of course. And I think that's what it relates to, is once you get to the other side, that's when you start comprehending the things we can't comprehend here. Where she had this reflection as she's been here before, it's just a return to where she's always been or still exists and everything made sense once she got across from there. So I don't know if that makes sense into what I'm explaining. But once she got to the other side, it was a return to home. And that kind of relates to the reincarnation thing that we've been there a billion times and we've been here a million times. But once she got to the other side, she was explaining like, oh, my God, of course, of course, of course. And I think that was the moment where what we were saying that nothing, it's not comprehensible here, but over there everything makes sense. And that's another thing that I keep hearing is that it was. Oh, it's always a return home. It always feels familiar. And it's just this eternal peace and love where you're not even really thinking about so much as to what's happening here. Like when my mom had essentially a near death experience where she felt minutes, she was gone. You said her heart was stopped for 10 minutes. Yeah, I mean I know it was at least seven because my Ken, the guy she's with has been with forever is. He had the phone on, talking to the hospital, giving her resuscitation. And that phone call was seven minutes. And then the few minutes of them coming up the stairs and resuscitating her. But my mom had a similar explanation of when she was in this place then she's not super religious or this or that. She still doesn't know what she experienced, but was similar to what Dr. Mary Hensley was saying where it was like it felt familiar, like it felt like she's been there before. She wasn't even thinking about us. My mom is a neurotic Italian mother. She, if she was, if she was just dreaming, she'd be thinking about her kids and her grandchildren. She'd even like fathom us. But they were both on this side where everything made sense. It was like all their questions were answered without even asking questions. Which I had a similar experience being on DMT. Whole another conversation, but it was everyone, including Dr. Mary Hensley. How she explained it, that oh moment where everything, just once or before it was fuzzy, everything just made sense and it was a return home. And that's where I think wherever we go, it's just gonna feel like we've been there before. I think that's what it is. Whatever else goes on there have people.
- [146:50]
B
Whether it was her or other people you've talked to, have they described seeing from that place, their family that's left behind and how they felt when they saw them?
- [147:02]
A
I believe it. I want to say Penny Whit Ross, Whit Broth RIP brought. It was one of my early near death experiences and I think it was her. I'd have to refer back to the episode, but it was something along the lines of knowing that they were going to be okay, like in the grand scheme of things and feeling and seeing exactly the panic that was happening when she was overlooking the scene she said she actually saw her sister when she was out of body drive to the scene and feeling exactly how she felt. And somehow something was verified about what was going on in the car that her sister confirmed. I don't know what it was was. But to answer your question, she was able to see or feel what her sister was going through, but felt detached from it in a sense that she knew everything was going to be okay and that even though she felt that in the moment, she was literally felt zero ounce of worry. So that was kind of the incomprehensible understanding of what we go through as a human and what is perceived on the other side, if you even want to call it perceiving. But it. Other than that, it didn't seem like I can't recall any other stories, including my mom problems of thinking about the people that were still living here. It was always what was going on the other side because that was really the big picture.
- [148:12]
B
It's so. I mean some of the people that go through something traumatic to, to have to experience that but then come back, I. In some ways I'm like jealous that they have some sort of. Even if they don't know the full picture or anything, they have some sort of Zen and comfort with living here and living in the moment because they've already seen something, you know, and then you've had other people. I think it was, was it Al Pacino? He's like, yeah, I died once, I didn't see anything. There's nothing that happens, you know, so it's like there's different, there's different interpretations.
- [148:47]
A
Of it, I guess I've actually asked that question. I remember one specific girl on several of them. But there's a ton of people that have no heartbeat or have a near death experience that see nothing. Nothing. Yeah, a lot of those people that see nothing. And I always ask, what about those people? How come some people have a near death experience and some don't? And a lot of those people that see black. I've again heard testimonies from a ton of people that always mention nothing happens when you die because of their experience. Because they saw black. Because they experienced nothing during their near death experience, which happens often. They believe nothing happens because of their experience. Then I asked one woman who's a medium and had her own near death experience, like how come some people see nothing is that does not contradict everything that you're saying. And she explained it somewhere along the lines of believing that those are certain souls, that if they had a near death experience if they saw the light and experience how ridiculously comforting and loving that side of the. Whatever you want to call it is, they wouldn't come back when they had to come back. So they had to see nothing to not have that temptation or that draw to come back. So by seeing nothing, maybe that means they're newer souls, which I don't even understand. What does that mean, newer? So how are souls born? That's a whole nother question. But they're younger souls. Every people say old soul, new soul. So the newer souls or the younger souls might not see anything. They might see black. So they have to come back. Because every, most of the near death experience there was some sort of choice or they were sent back. Like I know a couple of them were said like, you can stay here or you can go back. And they knew deep down for whatever reason that they had to come back. There's still work to do or however they felt, if you even feel. But that was my understanding of a potential idea of why, which kind of makes sense from what not making sense and making sense. If there was a reason for why some people see black and don't have a near death experience with all these visuals and experiences, that if they did have an experience where they were given that choice, they're like, no, I'm staying over here because over there is our hell. Over there is like sucks. Why the hell would I go back to that? Why the heck would I go back to that when this is over here? Which also relates to like even my mom, I think, I think she, she was like, had a near death experience hangover, which I hear is a common thing too. When they come back from this experience, they're back to this. Not the kind of shitty reality and they just experience this eternal love and light that is quote unquote perfect. And they come back to all these human feelings and the pain they might have gone through physically. And there's a little bit of a hangover from that experience because they're kind of adjusting back to reality with having felt that eternal, whatever you want to call it. So there's like a near death experience hangover. Allegedly.
- [151:16]
B
Yeah. They come out, they're like eggs cost seven bucks. What is this? Yeah, I want to go back.
- [151:23]
A
Yeah, it's kind of. That's come, come. I'm trying to understand it.
- [151:27]
B
Yeah.
- [151:27]
A
So who knows?
- [151:28]
B
Do you think that souls prior to reincarnating, if that's indeed what we do, do you think that when souls leave they still exist among us? In some ways they're still like. Do you think. Do you feel your dad here with. With you?
- [151:42]
A
Yeah. I don't know if that's. Yeah, there's. I mean, I've have. I have a specific story where again my objective brain try to counteract it. But I don't know if it's leftovers or they're just connecting from wherever they are, you know, leftovers. I'm. I'm trying to understand. You're saying that they're still here.
- [151:58]
B
Like the soul. Like, you know, you're doing something cool.
- [152:01]
A
Yeah.
- [152:02]
B
And your dad's standing there. That's my boy.
- [152:05]
A
Yeah. I don't know again, I. Yes, I. I believe in that. I feel like I felt that. But then again on my other side of the brain is like, no, no, no. Even though I believe in it, you know, I had a story where I'm curious what you think about this. So my girlfriend at the time, she was visiting New York with me. We came from Jersey and we get off downtown, which is right by the World Trade Center. I was like, have you never been. I know you've never been to the 911 world. If you want to go, let's go. I've been there a million times, so don't go for me contemplating it. So it was very on a whim him. Which is kind of part of the timing. Have you said that movie story where two seconds later so we end up going through there. That's like the only plug I have in my life is skipping the line for the 911 memorial. And it's kind of a flex. And then I. We get to the memorial. We be lined up for one section. There's one memorial section that they overplay the overlay audio from past memo anniversaries where people read the names. So 20 plus years of footage of. I don't know if it's the same one, but there's people reading names like. Kind of like light in the background. As soon as we get to the section that we just randomly went to, there's a million areas we could have gone to. I all of a sudden here and my husband, David Francis fio. It was my dad's name. My mom reading my dad's name. Like, I. It's one of those things where you could process it quicker than you could say it and immediately instinctually recognize the voice and then automatically heard my dad's name, my mom saying it. It was one of those things. Things like, sure, I can chalk it up to. I just happened to walk in that moment and it was Just a happy coincidence. But I'm like, I got. Me and my girl at the time looked at each other and got. A whole body was vibrating and we felt. It just felt differently. Outside of just the wild coincidence where it's one of those. I just felt like it was like a quick little wink from my dad. Just saying, like, here you are. That's why the timing worked out. That's why we slowed you down here so you can walk in at that exact moment. And it's. I feel like these things happen more often than we think think. And sometimes we either just ignore the signs or we just chalk it up to just coincidence. When if we really pay attention to that gut feeling, that intuition that you brought about, I think that's what we got to listen to. And at the end of the day, it's the meaning you give it. So regardless if I can go down the court of law rabbit hole of trying to figure out this is real or not, I'm never going to get the answer to. It meant something to me, and that's enough for me. And I felt it. So I feel like maybe that's the way that the soul speaks to us is countless stories I've had on my podcast and people that share online line where it just feels bigger than the objective truth, however you want to define it. And I think that's how it talks to us. Like the movie. What's with Jim Carrey and the God movie? Bruce Almighty. Yeah, he's. It was. Yeah, exactly. It was. But there's a moment in the scene where he's driving through traffic, getting frustrated, and there's one guy holding up a sign that says stop. He gets a cut. A car cuts him off, and it says, stop, caution, don't go. But he's just ignoring it. In a chaos of this. Of this overstimulated world that we live, ignoring all the signs. But this seems too obvious to be a sign. But I truly think that's how the universe communicates to us. Whether it's a certain person dropping a story out of nowhere that just resonates with you, or a billboard even, or these electronics are another way. That seems to be the connections. Electronics are easy for them to manipulate according to what I'm told. So my whole point of that is it's like, yeah, it's whether you want to try to counteract these experiences that we have and just define it as coincidence incidents. If it felt like something, just. Just trust that. And then it's the meaning you give it. Like everything we freaking do in this life.
- [155:20]
B
Yeah. Well, I, for one, when I think of God, picture Morgan Freeman. So, yeah, that movie got that part right.
- [155:26]
A
Yeah. Maybe God's black. I have no idea.
- [155:27]
B
But listen, I. I don't care what he is. He sounds like Morgan Freeman. That's the voice in my head.
- [155:32]
A
They casted that perfectly. Like, I literally. If God. If God is Morgan Freeman, I'll be stoked. I'd be so stoked.
- [155:38]
B
It'd be great. But no, what you're getting at too is the thing that's beyond death as well, which is like, when the universe lines up in just a way and transmit. We've kind of talked about this in other contexts today, whether it be the butterfly effect or the way things happen and the timing of things. But I am a huge believer that the deja vu's, the butterfly effects and the lining up of, of strange details is like. Like that is. There is something scientifically underlying the reason we're all here that that kind of thing happens. Because, you know, like, you'll do things, you'll go through processes with people, go throughout life and, and, you know, accomplishing things or going through different things and whatever. And then afterwards you'll be like, wow, I met that person because I knew this person right there. And when I met that person, they had the same birth, you know, like. Like all these little weird things. And you're like, but how did you know? Like, my head of content, Alessi, who was like, here, day one, working for free, lives in California. We had no connection to each other. I got really baked one night early on doing this podcast, like, late at night, and saw a blank account in Alex Friedman comments section asking for his equipment. I'm like, I know it's fucking equipment. So I DM'd him and said, you want it? He's like, yeah, sure. So I took a picture of a bunch of equipment. Equipment. He's like, wow, I'll give you a follow. And then we became friends. He has, you know, he's seven years younger than me, but he has the same exact birthday. He has a lot of the same interests, he has some of the same flaws I did at his age. And, you know, I'd like to think more importantly, some of. Some of the really, like, good things going for him as well that are, like, similar to things I had. And I look back on that now and what we've been able to build together here because he runs my second and third. Third channels like he's a genius, bro. And like, he's. He's Figured it out. And he can't spell, but other than that, like, he's amazing. And, you know, I'm always making fun of him, but I look back on that and it's such. It's not only like a really wholesome story, but it's like, why did that happen?
- [157:44]
A
Yeah.
- [157:45]
B
You know, many times I was baked at night, like, building this podcast. Never. That was like, the one night where I'm like, well, my buddy Chaz left a nice J here.
- [157:53]
A
That's what.
- [157:54]
B
That's what I'm saying.
- [157:55]
A
That's what I'm saying. I think. I think part of it is kind of everything thing we talked about. It's an awareness, but it's kind of allowing things to happen like that. Even if you just get, like you said, gamify it. All I say is for people, just try it. Gamify. Ask for what you want. Put it out there and allow things to kind of cookie crumble and follow the cookie crumble. Just be open to even believe it. Just try it out. Even if you don't believe it, just do it for a while. Just be aware of what's going on and. And just question. Even if you think that's a coincidence, just like, just what if you just say, all right, maybe that is a sign. Follow it and then see what opens up. I just noticed a lot of people, when they allow these things to happen as so much as believing it, all of a sudden just kind of like, you're like, in this weird little current. You're like in the current of the ocean. It just kind of guides you. But you're still making these decisions. There's still free will. But you're kind of just like following the cookie crumble and then following the next, and one by one, these things happen.
- [158:49]
B
Yeah.
- [158:49]
A
Yes, things happen. And that's. I think that's following the flow. It's kind of staying positive. Sure. But it's also just the universe, I do believe guides us in the most unexpected ways.
- [158:58]
B
It's the hardest thing, but you have to detach from outcomes. This is something I work on myself because, like, I am so driven to an outcome on every little thing. And like, I have written on my board out there right now, let go. That's for me to just look at in the morning because I'm like, you don't know how this video. Video is going to perform or how you're going to do one. Like, you don't know. Do good work. Put in your time. Let the universe take care of the rest. You're not going to win every time, you know?
- [159:26]
A
Yeah, I actually had that. I was tripping on probably the deepest mushroom trip ever been in my life. I had a moment where it was mostly just having fun, but then I had this moment that kind of relates to what you're saying where I was like, standing up. My friend was somehow on his face listening to me. Like I was preaching the word of the Lord and I was closing my eyes, yelling. I remember just being in this room. Like, I was visualizing this room trying to tripping balls. And all the doors were closed every. It was like several doors there that I wanted to go through. And I was screaming out loud, like, what now? Like, what now? I'm here. What. What do I do now? And then I had a pivotal moment where it's kind of carried me. This is the beautiful, beautiful part of mushrooms. I realized, like, I show. I was getting frustrated because I showed up. I feel like I did the work. I had good intentions. I'm just putting my head down, but not like, these doors aren't opening for me. And that's the metaphor I took from it. But I was like, okay, just. All I can do is just show up and the door might. Might not be open right now.
- [160:17]
B
Right.
- [160:17]
A
Just trust that it's going to be. Whether it is or isn't, you figured out. You knock a hole in the wall. I don't know what that means, but it was this moment that just relates to everything I do. And I think what you're saying is we can only do so much. I can't if the door's not open, the door's not open. All I can do is show up and do this and do that and that. It's. It's letting go and letting go of the outcome and whatever the chips fall. It's just back to what I said earlier. It's like, well, see, I don't know what else to do.
- [160:41]
B
No, it's. It's good. It's good to hear someone else describe it because it's really hard for me.
- [160:44]
A
It's hard for me, too.
- [160:45]
B
It's really hard for me. Like, there's things I'm like, I. I want that my soul feels drawn to that. It feels drawn to having this w. You know what I mean? But, like, I don't get to control that sometimes the door will be open, but I'm going to make sure I knock on all of them.
- [161:00]
A
Yeah, the sentence, the knocking. It is the knocking. But also, I think what you're saying. I heard recently something along the lines of there is actually. And I, I relate to this because I find myself wanting, wanting, wanting. And I'm feel like I'm enforcing will almost too much. And I always felt this way. Then I heard someone say it and I had no supporting evidence or any thought behind it. But there's something to the heavy wanting and heavy desiring. I want this, I need this. I need this into an outcome where it's actually creating more resistance. I feel the resistance when I do. I don't know if it's me creating it or just what that resistance is, but I feel resistance. Resistance pushing for something or trying to put a square peg in a hole like we were trying to figure out earlier. Yeah, it's that wanting, that needing is actually hurting us more than helping us when we think our enforcing our will is actually part of the perseverance, but it's actually letting go of the outcome like you said and say I'm going to do this, that it's almost thinking instead of I need this, I need this. It's. I want that. And if it doesn't happen, it doesn't happen. But I'm going to do my best to make it happen. It's when we, that's, that's to me, that's letting go. It's. I want, yeah, I do want this to happen. But if it doesn't happen, it's okay. It's almost like not caring. That's why I see so many, you see so many people, successful people in my life that are like just so lackadated, like I'm gonna do this, I don't care what happens. And that happens for them. I think that's the art of letting go. No matter what happens, but still focused on, still attaining it. But it's a perfect balance of, you know, wanting to achieve something but don't give a about the outcome. And that's when the shit happens.
- [162:26]
B
At feel like, think about the. Everyone has two types of friends, right? And a lot of times there's people, you know, your friends that have been in both eras of this, but the one type of friend is the one that wants the girl and can't get her. And I'll just do anything to do it. And what are they? They need it. So they're needy.
- [162:44]
A
Yes.
- [162:44]
B
Right. I've been there. The other one, the other one is the type that wants it, realizes that's not an opportunity right now, now, and doesn't take it personally, completely detaches and you know, lets it happen with other women. And ironically, sometimes Then that girl comes knocking at some point. It is absolutely like that example of like males and females in a relationship. It is downstream true in everything in life. And like any time that I have up most times at least you can in. In whatever situation it is and life, it's more me taking the route of I need that outcome and I become needy for it rather than okay, I want that outcome. I'm going to work to get it. But I'm not going to tie the meaning of my soul to that happening when there are things there that are out of my control.
- [163:36]
A
That's the.
- [163:37]
B
You know, you and I don't example. We don't control the algorithm, for example. You know, we may. I'll bet you you your best podcast ever is one that is not a.
- [163:45]
A
Top view A thousand I've had massive guests on that episode didn't perform like I thought it would.
- [163:50]
B
That's a massive guess someone that no one's ever heard of even that you're like banger. That's the greatest conversation I've ever had. And the algorithm was like Dave off, dude.
- [164:01]
A
Even like an episode I posted from. From my standards, it was like, oh, that episode performed way I put it out there, like I enjoyed it. But this is probably not going to do much numerically. And I was like, oh, why is this before me? I. What was it the title? Was it this? Or was it me not giving a. Yeah.
- [164:14]
B
Not giving a. Being like low expectations suddenly got met and passed real fast.
- [164:19]
A
Dude, I'm telling. I think that's the secret.
- [164:21]
B
That's part. I think that's part of it.
- [164:23]
A
One of the many secrets. I think that is one of it. It's just again, it goes to the way we carry ourselves and it still comes back to the same shit we've been talking about. It's just let the cards fall where they fall.
- [164:31]
B
Yeah.
- [164:32]
A
And then whatever comes I'm good with. I'm gonna make it work regardless.
- [164:35]
B
Would you. This is. This is almost a harsh way of putting it and I apologize if it comes across the wrong way, but would you say your life is kind of could be divided simply in a before and after your dad.
- [164:49]
A
Yeah.
- [164:50]
B
Yeah.
- [164:50]
A
I mean it. Talk about changing trajectories. It changed. It changed. It was two different dimensions. Two completely. I wish I'd never be able to get the answer what my life would have been like with him. But if I tried to imagine it, I don't know if I would have moved to California. That's. I've been here for. Been there for 15 years, just. I probably would have went to the city. I still was always a little out there in regards to trying different things, I think. But I. My dad might have tried to get me into his company and I would have took that path. And that's exactly what I was avoiding by moving to California. I didn't want that. I knew what I didn't want. I didn't know what I wanted, but I knew what I didn't want. And it wasn't that. But if he didn't die, I might still be back east, might still be living in Jersey right now. This, that and the other. So, yeah, a thousand percent, I think there's. Everyone has their different chapters in your life. So I feel like it's been multiple lives for me, to be honest. Honest. But that at 12 years old, 1000%. Even though life continued the same for a while because I was still growing up, still lived in Jersey for a while. So it wasn't like I just, 13 years old, moved to California. It wasn't until I was 22, but because of that, once I graduated college, I knew I didn't want to stay there. Even though it was the opposite of everything my heart told me. Leaving my family, that was the hardest part and still is. The hardest part of being so far is based on that experience of realizing the impermanence and the importance of my family. I'm very close to my family. Family, they're everything to me. But I still went across the country and moved further from them. So that contradiction kind of messes me up. But then I think about it, I'm like, no, I need. I need to do this. I come home all the time. I'm very close to my nephew, so nothing's been missed out besides the consistency of always seeing them. But that was a weird contradiction. And I, Again, I don't even know why I moved to California. It was like a poll. I just, just. I didn't question it, made the decision, just went. Even when I got there, I'm like, I don't even know what I'm doing here. But it was like a weird kind of listening to the way things are supposed to go. Yeah, that makes sense. Kind of like the predetermined. It's like I'm supposed to be there.
- [166:33]
B
Yeah.
- [166:34]
A
And then whatever I choose, it's just, let's do it. And yeah, absolutely. It was. Again, it was two different. Two different worlds. And I feel like that's a common thread when you lose anyone, no matter. 12, wife, husband, brother.
- [166:44]
B
It's a Totally new world, minus the obvious changes in, you know, experiencing death and certainly having to go through years formatively in a new reality. Would you say that your personality changed a lot or would you, do you think you're still kind of the kid you were growing up to be in that way?
- [167:08]
A
I think I'm still, I think mostly you have to ask my homies that, my family. I think I feel like I've been pretty consistent in who I am, but I've just gotten better. Like in the within regards to still not there yet. Still have a lot of growing to do. But I think just the way I see my relationships and how important they are and being loyal and showing up for my people, I think that's evolved into growing and to understand the importance of that. But I think in regards to my wanting to make people feel it goes back to you asking, like, how about my dad and how I realized I'm a lot like him. I don't think that came from him dying. I think that just came from the foundation of who I always was. And as I got older, I just realized I'm like him. Him.
- [167:51]
B
Right.
- [167:52]
A
If I'm like him, that was when he was still alive. So it has nothing to do with his death. So I think foundationally and personality wise, I would like to thank my friends. Think I'm pretty consistent. And as you see me on, even on shows like this, you talk to me off the mic. I'm, I'd like to think I'm the same person. I think that kind of relates, it's just, yeah, just like the, the values and understanding, the fragility and the, you know, those existential moral decisions that, that's continually evolved. For sure.
- [168:16]
B
Yeah.
- [168:17]
A
But ultimately I, I, I've been thinking I was 12, you know what I mean? Like, who the hell was I when I was 12? That was the same that I am now. I don't know.
- [168:24]
B
Well, you, you alluded to it earlier and I do want to ask you about it because it's with, and I fully understand this. When you talk to different people who lost family and friends in 9, 11, sometimes it's a very sensitive subject to even talk about, like that day and the bigger picture of, of what happened.
- [168:41]
A
What's my job?
- [168:43]
B
That's what you think?
- [168:44]
A
Is that what you're getting at?
- [168:45]
B
Yeah, I'm, I'm asking, I mean, there's a whole bunch of different theories out there. I've always, always actually gotten cooked for some of my thoughts on this day because I think a lot just went Wrong. There's some other things. You know, I'm always developing on that, but, you know, I didn't. I didn't lose people in it. You know, you. You lost. You lost your father in it. It's. That's, that's what the event is for you. But zooming out, if that's possible, 24 and a half years later, you know, what, what, what do you think happened?
- [169:16]
A
Yeah, it's. It's all. So. It doesn't add up to me. Like, I think we've been lied to an incredible amount. I think. I think there's a lot of. In there. But in regards to who did it, those hard answers, I have obviously no idea. I can only theorize. But I. The biggest one for me that makes me question it the Most is Tower 7.
- [169:41]
B
Even.
- [169:42]
A
Like, it isn't just avoiding everything else. House. Just questioning that. Why did that go. Why did that go down like a perfect. What happened? How did that collapse?
- [169:52]
B
Yeah.
- [169:52]
A
You know what I mean? The fact that that went down in perfect. I use the word demolition, but it's a whole other question that raised the most flags. Like, why did that go down? Apparently you have to. I'm curious, actually. I don't know if you want to look it up, but pretty sure there were very important things in there. Very important offices.
- [170:07]
B
Very important. See, I had an office there. Their secrets. I had Evie Bomporis in here. Her Secret Service office was in there. Yeah.
- [170:13]
A
You know what I mean? So it's. It's not. It's not even. Of course, it doesn't prove anything, but it's one of those things where you walk into your girlfriend's apartment, you see someone else's shorts there. Yeah, I didn't see you guys having sex, but what are those shorts doing there? It's like. It's like at least to raise some questions. And that one beyond anything else. We can go down the rabbit hole of that always just doesn't make sense to me. So in my head I'm like, there's something. I don't know if it was the. Our. Our side turning a blind shoulder. I don't know if it was our side just being in on it. But then you go down, the whole war aspect of it, that turned out to be from my ignorant understandings to be. But obviously there was a reason why we went to war and it wasn't for the weapons we thought we were going to find. That turned out to be bullshit. There's other motivation as to why they would do that. Then you want to Go deeper. Even if you could go back into like history. I think, I think it was Operation, you know, Operation North. Northwoods. Yeah, I think it was Operation Northwoods, which is the false flag operation they presented the jfk, he turned it down within those documents without me being able to verbatim explain it. I'm pretty sure they put in there like real or simulated planes. They were supposed to blow up a ship and blame it on Castro. So my whole point of bringing that up that has, that seemingly has nothing to do with 911 has everything to do with 911 for sure.
- [171:29]
B
Yeah.
- [171:29]
A
Just the ideation of a false flag for people to think that, that something like that is impossible or incapable. That's a real proven.it's a real document. It's not even like it's not even made up. So just my idea from trying to tie the two. Okay, that was 60 years ago. Whatever it was. And that was regardless if it was executed or not, which it wasn't, it was turned down, I believe from JFK.
- [171:51]
B
Right.
- [171:53]
A
That was proposed 60 years ago. That was proposed to create a false terrorist attack just to blame it on other people. What was not allowed a terrorist attack, to blame it on X so we could infiltrate and get the public back into a war. The whole reason for that from my understanding was to blame it on cash so we can go into Cuba. Is that, is that correct?
- [172:12]
B
You have it enough, correct, enough correct kind of thing.
- [172:15]
A
So it's like it's the same playbook just on a ridiculous scale that it's so absurd. There's like no, it's like just like there's no way. There's, there's no way in my head I'm like, why not?
- [172:25]
B
I think something that people forget is that it doesn't take many, many. And what I mean by that is we use these terms, right? They'll, we'll talk about a country or we'll talk about a specific agency or whatever that comprises of millions or thousands of people. And in your head you start to think oh, so they're all in on it or something. All it takes is having three people in some various compartmentalized power positions. You just know what's going on. To let something go through and, and then at baby out with the bathwater, everyone takes the bath for it and takes the blame for it and they may not even know that it happened. And regardless of what direction this went or who all fucked up, I, I for one, the more and more I look at it, just think there were fuck ups everywhere.
- [173:11]
A
Right.
- [173:12]
B
And my opinion on some of it has changed. You know, I like what could have happened there. I also think you had multiple allies around the world who had intelligence on this and just didn't share. Share it for, you know, selfish reasons. But, you know, everything that could go wrong did go wrong. And if there were, if there were a handful of people who maybe allowed that to be facilitated, which is like the worst crime ever, by the way, you know, I could totally. I could totally see that. I just don't know. I don't know how I, I mean, you, I'm very impressed with how calmly you comprehend that. I don't know how I would comprehend that if I were in a position like you where I, I lost someone in there.
- [173:58]
A
Well, honestly, I mean, I, I feel like I didn't start questioning it maybe till later. I, I don't remember how I felt in regards to the first 10 years of going that deep on it. I know a lot more has come out now. Yeah. When I really sit in it, I don't know if I just detach myself from it because I don't know what I'm going to do or what can I do about it kind of thing where I try not to let it override me. But when I do go deep on and think about just. Again, it's not solidified. I'm hoping it's just mistakes, even though even the mistakes piss me off, you know, I mean, it's either. It's either a horrible mistake and an incapability of doing your job or the other one. Either one. It's not acceptable.
- [174:39]
B
It's not acceptable. There's nothing about either one.
- [174:41]
A
It's not either one. It's not acceptable. So it's, it's, it's weird that that's what makes it even weirder. Like the experience. Besides the fact that what happened now this is just a possibility. And I'm hoping it's not. Maybe, maybe it's just mistakes made and people make mistakes. But, you know, and I, I don't know what to do with it. And I try to. I don't know if it's me ignoring it, because I don't ignore it, obviously, if I'm talking about it. But, like, what would you. What would you do? Like, you know, it's supposed to turn 18 and list to war. That wasn't in me. I don't even know about content. You know what I mean? Like, I, Sometimes I think about that. Why wasn't I. So why isn't I more pissed off? I Think my anger came out in different ways. Definitely came out in different ways, but it wasn't that. Like, I'm gonna go enlist and do this. And that wasn't me.
- [175:23]
B
And you also, to remind from the beginning of our conversation, like, as you said, there was literally like a shutdown kind of blackout moment right when it happened to. Which lasted seemingly for a relatively long period of time to where you're not even. Even. That's not in the ether sphere. Even. Not. Not that you could have done anything about it. To your point, you're only 12. You're not 18. But, you know, I think that some of that's like a blessing too, because anger ain't gonna bring your dad back to you. That's. And that's the thing. And it's a human emotion. And I. I remember I felt a little of it. I was eight. You know what I mean? Like, what the am I gonna do with that? But it's not. It's not gonna. It's not gonna change anything. And that's where I guess, you know, the professionals are gonna go do their thing as they did.
- [176:08]
A
Yeah. And I thought I sometimes got frustrated on myself, like, how come I didn't. How come I didn't do this? How come I didn't do that? That's. I'll let that go. But it's again, my anger. I, for whatever reason, operated my anger. I did do it physically. I remember being like, eighth grade maybe, like, maybe the same year my dad used to have a punching bag.
- [176:26]
B
And.
- [176:27]
A
And I know, like, I have plenty of friends that let out anger. And the story I told you about the lacing up the boots in different ways, maybe I was a. I don't know. But it was more me letting it out physically. Yes. I remember going. I remember literally blasting hybrid theory. Linkin park probably saved me because I used to blast that album when no one was home and just lay into that punching badge. I had gloves on, then I took it off. Then I'll just go bare knuckle till my knuckles bled. And that was my way of letting some physical. Physicality, which I think helped. I don't know what I was doing at the time.
- [176:55]
B
That's a healthy way to do it.
- [176:57]
A
And. But it really is like, physicality. Then I. Then down the line, I really study, like, physicality doesn't help you. I'm like, I don't understand how it wouldn't. But that was part of it that I got that out. And then I used to rewatch the footage over and over again. I used to like for years. And I think that's what eventually.
- [177:10]
B
Buildings.
- [177:10]
A
Yeah, I think that's what eventually, later on, took me down a rabbit hole from seeking new footage. And I accidentally went down the conspiracy rabbit hole. But I would constantly rewatch unreasonable replay. Go back, go back. Watch the plane hitting it. Watch it again. Watch it again. See the towers go down. Watch it again, watch it again. Where I was contemplating, like, am I going to be a psychopath for constantly putting myself here? But then years later, down the line again, I was like, no, I think that helped me. I think that. I think that's what exposure therapy is. I think it put me in the place because all I was really trying to do was cry, because I wasn't crying. I was like, I want to watch this till I cried. And I would do it until tears came out. Then when the tears came out, I would. I would lay the Dell computer down, whatever we had had. And I realized, I think I did it to a balancing point where it wasn't unhealthy, where it was putting myself in the place, allowing myself to feel, whether it was a punching bag or just allowing these tears out, but I allow myself to feel. I put myself there. No distraction. I wasn't just sitting in the corner getting busy. I was like, I'm gonna watch this over and over and over again like a lunatic. And I think that was the. One of the best things I ever could have done because I got comfortable with it. Didn't make me numb, because even sometimes I watch now, I still feel it. So I'm like, okay, I didn't completely lose it, but it made me face it. And I think there's something in there with that exposure therapy of instead of avoiding everything we go through, we have to face it. Because by facing it, you see what it is. You find the quote unquote reality of it, and you kind of forcefully get emotions out that may normally be stagnant. Some people are just blessed and have the way of feeling. My sister Jacqueline's wonderful at expressing and feeling, and you know how she's feeling. Me, I'm more internalized. But this forced me to feel everything, to put myself outside of being at ground zero, which I've been plenty of times, even the next year. But it was seeing it and just facing it. And I think there's something to that, of facing whatever we go through again, not to the point of numbness, but to the point of just allowing yourself to feel it and face it and get through whatever you got to get through. I think that's what did it for me. But I didn't know what I was doing at the time. Maybe I was doing it for the wrong reasons then. But now looking back at it, I think it did something that helped.
- [179:08]
B
Well, I'm glad it did something to help. I think I, I, I, I can't. While you were talking, I was really trying hard to like put myself there in those shoes. But again, it's a strange thing, cuz it's a public event that affected all of us. But like I'm not in the shoes of like every time I see it, I'm like, oh, that's the floor my dad was on. You know what I mean?
- [179:28]
A
Yeah. Someone, someone said that to me. Like I respond, I was like, how does it. Very directly it was. How does it feel?
- [179:33]
B
Feel to.
- [179:34]
A
I don't think he was asking in a sick way.
- [179:35]
B
I think I know.
- [179:36]
A
Curious. How does it feel to watch your dad die over and over again? Like, oh yeah, that was kind of a new thought. Like obviously I knew it. Watching it like my dad's in that building, he's dying. But it's like, yeah, I get to watch my father's death. Obviously not face to face, but yeah, I've seen my dad's death in many ways. It's up.
- [179:52]
B
Did he make any phone calls while he was up there?
- [179:55]
A
If he tried, I don't know, but he did it. There's another thoughts like what, what was going on in that flight floor? Was his floor rattled and destroyed? Was he gone in a second because he was so close or did he have time to like try to get out?
- [180:07]
B
What, what about. You Talked to Ron DeFrancesco, right? Is that his name?
- [180:12]
A
No. Oh, oh. I had Brian Clark on. Brian Clark, who is another guy with Ron DeFrancho.
- [180:18]
B
Okay, so these are guys who were like right by where the plane hit, who were, who got out. They were like the last ones.
- [180:24]
A
Yeah, he was on, I know Brian was on the 78th floor of Tower 2, I believe. Then I had Michael Hingson on who was on my dad, dad's building.
- [180:32]
B
How did the survivors, especially the guys who were like the last to make it out. Have you broached any of these conversations with them about what really happened that day or asked them about their experiences in there to see if, you know, there's some new light that can be shed?
- [180:47]
A
No, I'm actually now you think about pissed off that I didn't go down that route. I'm gonna, I'm gonna reach out to one of Them right after this episode again, what did you think happened that day? So. But. But I feel like the way they were talking. I think I. I should have gotten more direct. Now that I think about that was on me. But I. From the way they were talking it didn't. I forget what they said but it didn't seem like they were implying anything. Funny business going on.
- [181:10]
B
Right.
- [181:11]
A
At least during the storytelling they didn't mention any. I would think hope naturally that they'd be like oh I heard this explosion and it didn't seem like this or that none of that came up. But I am curious as to what they think.
- [181:21]
B
Yeah. I mean it beats me. And there's a lot of possibilities. I will. I will agree building sets and the more I look at that is. And it happened later too. That was so strange. There's. There's a lot of strange things.
- [181:33]
A
At a minimum it's just a little. It's just there's questions that should be and you know I think there's a lot of things that still haven't been released. You know what I mean? Like there's still documents that are adapted that they're not giving information on. It's like what's what sensitive information in there that would harm the public. Now maybe, maybe early on for like public security. Sure.
- [181:50]
B
I can see there's always something.
- [181:51]
A
There's always something. But what now, 25 years later. What's in the. What's. What are they. What are they potentially holding back fact that they think would be to the public worse. Like what are they.
- [181:59]
B
It's JFK all over again in the. And maybe not the same thing but the JFK example is that there were multiple people in CIA and Pentagon who had that guy killed. And even if you just admit that that's true, 60 years later the public Main street will say then that organization shouldn't exist. It's an existential. You killed President. It's an existential thing. And so even if it were were best case scenario just some huge mistakes that haven't been reported and we've. There've been a lot of mistakes reported but think about that even worse. That was so much that people are like oh this place shouldn't exist. Then it's. They view it as an existential risk. And I, you know there's a lot of possibilities. There's a lot of possibilities.
- [182:42]
A
Hope for the best. I'm just saying it's one of those things of not being shocked if anything happens if we. If we got like the cold cut evidence that, that this so is the worst case scenario happened. I wouldn't be up and up. Not up in arms is one thing, but I wouldn't be like, no way.
- [182:55]
B
Right.
- [182:56]
A
That's kind of where I'm at.
- [182:57]
B
Right.
- [182:57]
A
And I don't know what to do with that. I don't know what to do with that.
- [183:00]
B
Well, I, I think your attitude on it and, and the way you can at least talk about it and the way you also talk about your own experience, studying it yourself is, is admirable because it's, it's got to be very difficult with the, with the personal touch to it. But there's no doubt that you have taken all of your experiences and this journey of life that you've been on and put that to incredible use. I do have to say, your ability to hold space with some of your guests when they're talking about the most vulnerable worst things that have happened to them when it comes to loss is tremendous.
- [183:35]
A
I appreciate that.
- [183:36]
B
And you're really good at it. I know some of that comes from you understanding your own experiences and being able to relate to. To it. But some of it's also just talent talking with people. So I'm glad you do what you do. We'll have the link to Dead Talks down below so that people can go subscribe.
- [183:52]
A
Man, thank you again.
- [183:52]
B
And check it out.
- [183:53]
A
But thanks for making.
- [183:55]
B
Thank you for, for doing this. We. We'll have to do it again because there's a lot on the bone here and I think people are really going to like your perspective. But I also do not use the light in the bathroom. Just saying.
- [184:09]
A
For different reasons or what? No, what you explained a little bit.
- [184:12]
B
Yeah. Probably about the same.
- [184:13]
A
Isn't that weird? So we just got to turn the light on.
- [184:15]
B
It is what it is. I'll get there.
- [184:17]
A
We'll both get there.
- [184:18]
B
But thanks so much for doing it, dude.
- [184:20]
A
I appreciate the man, brother. Thank you so much.
- [184:21]
B
Everybody else, you know what it is. Give it a thought. Get back to me. Peace. Thank you guys for watching the episode. If you haven't already, please hit that subscribe button and smash that like button on the video. They're both a huge, huge help. And if you would like to follow me on Instagram and X, those links are in my description below.