Julian Dorey Podcast #364 – Cult Victim EXPOSES Murderous Psychotic “Guru” & his Master Slave Fantasy | Sarah Edmondson

Guest: Sarah Edmondson
Host: Julian Dorey
Date: December 9, 2025

Episode Overview

This gripping episode of the Julian Dorey Podcast features Sarah Edmondson, an actress and high-profile whistleblower from the notorious NXIVM cult, who details her years inside the group, her involvement in the secret women’s group DOS, personal experiences with coercive control, her eventual escape, and efforts to expose leader Keith Raniere.

The conversation dives deep into the psychological mechanisms of cult indoctrination, the progression of abuse and control, and the aftermath for survivors. Sarah unpacks the emotional and logistical complexities of leaving NXIVM, her role in the media-driven takedown of Raniere, and the personal journey of healing, accountability, and advocacy since becoming public about her ordeal.

Key Sections & Insights

1. Setting the Scene: From Ordinary Life to Cult Entrapment (00:25–03:38)

• Sarah describes how routine aspects of her life (acting, friendships) were gradually eclipsed by her involvement in NXIVM
  • Friendships within NXIVM were always impacted by a hierarchy/ranking system, which undermined genuine intimacy.
  • Sarah notes the unhealthy dynamics:
    “Even with Mark and I, like, even though we were friends and business partners, he's still above me.” (03:02)
• Entry into NXIVM seemed innocuous: a self-improvement/executive training program.
• The organization’s manipulative structure quietly eroded boundaries between professional, personal, and spiritual domains.

2. Manipulation Through Relationships & Power Dynamics (03:38–06:47)

• Sarah’s closest relationships inside the group (Lauren Salzman, Barbara Jeske) were always entangled with the cult’s internal hierarchy.
• Lauren Salzman (Nancy Salzman’s daughter): key confidante, mentor, and therapist—yet also a ‘superior’ within the cult.
• Insight: “It was a very one way ... she couldn't tell anyone what she was going through. Just like I couldn't. She couldn't either.” (06:47)
• Host draws parallels to Scientology and how arbitration/mediation mimicked high-control group counseling.

3. Personal Life & the Difficulty of Maintaining Normalcy (06:47–08:58)

• Discussion of starting a family with “Nippy” (Sarah’s husband, also a participant):
  • Having her son Troy in 2014 began a shift in Sarah’s perspective: “I think was the beginning of the end for me because my values priority shifted again.” (08:17)
• Raniere’s methods of control extended into the familial realm—he discouraged members from outside relationships or having children unless it suited his ends.
  • He “had nicknames for people that were kind of like little digs at their issue. ... My nickname. My son's name is Troy, so he called me Mother of Troy.” (08:58)

4. The “Rainbow Cultural Garden” & Non-Attachment Indoctrination (10:21–11:49)

• Children (like Sarah’s son) were to be raised through “Rainbow Cultural Garden,” a bizarre, expensive educational schema purportedly designed to create “children of the world”—but intended, according to Sarah, to sever attachments to parents:
  • “Sidebar. I think he was trying to separate children from their mothers to create a non attachment so that they’d become sociopaths. That's just my theory.” (11:16)
• She speculates this was deliberate groundwork for raising the next generation of emotionally detached followers.

5. Mounting Red Flags & Cognitive Dissonance (22:52–24:15)

• Sarah recounts accumulating “red flags,” doubts, and disturbing incidents, which she was trained to minimize or “put on the shelf”:
  • “You have an incident with someone... you sort of put it up behind on the back... then eventually the shelf breaks.”
• The “Gambler's Paradox”: Cognitive investment in the group made it feel impossible to leave, even as negative experiences mounted:
  • “You keep throwing good money after bad, even as it's getting bad, because you're like, well, it's worked in the past.” (23:38)
• Chasing the initial “high” from early positive experiences in NXIVM kept her hooked.

6. Introduction to DOS: Secrets, Collateral, and Vows of Obedience (35:02–45:48)

Key Timeline:

• January 2017: Lauren Salzman invites Sarah to join DOS (“Dominus Obsequious Sororium”).
  • “She wanted to invite me to something that was top secret and very exciting. Now she's visibly excited slash nervous about this thing, and she's. I can't tell you what it is until you give me collateral.” (36:01)
  • Collateral: Deep secrets, photos, manufactured blackmail to ensure secrecy and complicity.
• Process Normalization: Sarah explains how collateral, “penance,” and other tactics had been gradually normalized in prior years within the organization.
• Vow of Obedience: Sarah details how she gave in, feeling both internal and external pressure, and how the steps were incrementally unreasonable.
  • “Every step along the way, there was a commitment and a lie.” (39:18)

7. The Master-Slave Dynamic, Readiness Drills, and Ritualized Abuse (55:10–59:57)

• The mechanics of DOS included extreme control:
  • All communication was couched in ‘master/slave’ language (“Good morning, master...”), with punitive “readiness drills” at all hours.
  • “I had to keep my phone on at night for, like, drills. ... I had to respond to her in a certain way.” (57:15)
• Sarah describes sleep deprivation, secrecy from her own husband, and the endless escalation of required collateral (including requests for the deed to her home).
• She reveals that being physically far from Albany and NXIVM’s core limited her exposure somewhat, but acknowledges the psychological entrapment kept her compliant.

8. The Branding Ceremony: Orchestrated Trauma (63:34–75:11)

Branding Night:

• Sarah walks listeners through the traumatic, ritualized “branding” session, orchestrated by Lauren and Allison Mack:
  • After being blindfolded, stripped, and led into a small room at Allison Mack’s condo, the women were forcibly branded near their bikini lines with a cauterizing iron.
  • Horrific details of the procedure:
    “The first woman I saw was like flipping around on the table like an electrocuted fish. ... I was having my flesh cut open with a hot iron with no anesthetic and went somewhere else.” (71:33–72:17)

Key Quote:

• “Before it even started, we had to say, master, would you brand me? It would be an honor.” (73:09)

  • This was a direct command from Raniere to create an illusion of consent for legal protection.

• Aftermath: Emotional dissociation and trauma-bonding with fellow branded women.

9. The Breaking Point: Awakening and Escape (77:49–93:00)

• The cumulative trauma and revelations (“the brand is KR—Keith’s initials!”) caused the final break.
• Mark Vicente (NXIVM recruiter) and Sarah corroborate their insider information, realize the scale of abuse, and decide to blow the whistle together.
• Sarah details the panic, fear, and logistical escape:
  • “I just have to get, I have to get out of here. I had to get out of here and stop the branding. I have to stop the brand.” (93:40)
• After confiding in her friend Mark, she files a formal complaint with the FBI, confronts the likelihood of legal and social retaliation, and joins with Catherine Oxenberg and others as central whistleblowers.

10. Blowing the Lid Off: Legal Case, Media, and Fallout (103:08–115:54)

• Sarah describes the operational plan to maximize media exposure while minimizing legal risks:
  • “Initiated the coach tree... let one person know who we knew wasn't going to tell on us what was going on. And we just directed everybody to her.” (100:25)
• Worked with Catherine Oxenberg (celebrity and mother of a DOS victim), Bonnie Piesse, Mark Vicente, and her husband to coordinate testimony.
• Details on the Eastern District trial, rapid conviction, and Raniere’s 120-year sentence.

11. Aftermath: Healing, Accountability, and Advocacy (115:54–138:12)

• The shock of going public in the New York Times (“I felt so alone... There's just so many people that have been affected by this, and no one's, like, come out and really owned it in the same way.” (115:45))
• Dealing with stigma, shame, and trauma—both personal and for her family (her young son Troy).
• Rebuilding marriage and parenting with Nippy—using their podcast, “A Little Bit Culty,” as therapeutic/advocacy tool.
• Host highlights impact: “You coming out, has saved countless, countless people who were in it and are able to get out and people who would have been in it and now never did.” (147:10)
• Sarah is currently working on a resource book for college-aged students to recognize red flags before getting ensnared in cults or high-control groups.

Sarah’s Advice to Those in Cults (146:12):

“Don’t tell anybody in your group ... Go outside the organization. Do some research. ... There’s so much resources on the other side that are available for people.”

12. Reflections on Forgiveness and Life After Cult (133:20–144:39)

• On Lauren Salzman:
  “Yes. Yeah, absolutely. She wrote a really beautiful letter that I got through my lawyer, and she knows that I forgive her.” (133:22)
• On Keith Raniere:
  “No. ... Rotten in hell.” (134:48)
• On self-forgiveness and healing:
  “Yeah, I do. It's. It's been a long healing journey together. But, yeah. Yeah, I do.” (135:34)
• Sarah expresses gratitude for her family, new perspective, and the resilience to build a meaningful life beyond trauma.
• She emphasizes the ongoing nature of recovery, role of therapy, importance of supportive family/community, and a pragmatic, humble approach to spirituality and meaning.

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On indoctrination’s slow trap:

  • “What doesn't happen is you join a personal development group and they say, hey, in 12 years, would you like the leader's initials seared into your flesh?” (39:08)

• On the cult’s dialectic:

  • “You're not a victim ... If something fucks up in your life, you either had expectations that were off or you, you know, miss certain things. ... But the thing is, I was a victim because I was lied to.” (49:20)

• Host on public reaction:

  • “People, you know, commenters will be like, how could you ever fall for this? I'm like, dude—it could happen. Very easily.” (39:06)

• Sarah on trusting one's gut:

  • “Teaching them how to trust their gut and to, to voice. Like ... a couple times where Troy's been like, mom, I've said, no, don't cross my boundary. And I'm like, shit, you're right.” (122:52)

Major Timestamps

• 00:25 — Sarah begins describing trauma of branding & secret rituals
• 03:02 — Discussion of hierarchical, abnormal friendships in NXIVM
• 06:47 — Insights into the double life inside DOS and power imbalance
• 08:58 — Raniere’s manipulation of maternal instincts and control over procreation
• 22:52 — Dissecting red flags, cognitive dissonance, and “gambler’s paradox”
• 35:02 — Introduction to DOS; vows and giving “collateral”
• 55:10 — Master/slave dynamic and the escalation of control via readiness drills
• 63:34–75:11 — The branding ceremony: detailed, harrowing account
• 81:18 — Realizing the brand is Keith Raniere’s initials
• 84:41 — Decision to go to FBI; mechanics of blowing the whistle
• 103:08 — Coordinating whistleblowing with Mark, Bonnie, Catherine Oxenberg
• 115:54 — The impact and aftermath of going public
• 135:34 — On self-forgiveness and moving forward

Further Resources

• Sarah's memoir: “Scarred” ([linked in episode)
• Podcast: “A Little Bit Culty” (Sarah & Nippy)
• Website for resources: alittlebitculty.com/resources
• The HBO Series: “The Vow” (features Sarah and many key figures/interviews)

Tone and Style

Candid, raw, sometimes darkly humorous, this conversation maintains a respectful, empathic tone. Julian provides space for Sarah’s unvarnished narrative, asks nuanced questions, and frequently validates her emotions and choices, making the episode emotionally engaging, accessible, and affirming for survivors.

For Listeners

This episode is vital listening for anyone interested in cult dynamics, true crime, psychological abuse, or survivor stories of resilience and advocacy. It offers a rare, first-person view into the inner workings of a modern cult, the all-consuming nature of coercive control, and a roadmap for resistance, escape, and the difficult but essential road to personal healing and collective justice.