Julian Dorey Podcast #366

Secrets of the Freemasons, “Godfather” of Occultism & Epstein’s Strange Emails | Mark Gagnon
Guest: Mark Gagnon | Date: December 16, 2025

Episode Overview

In this wide-ranging, fast-paced conversation, Julian Dorey sits down with comedian and YouTube host Mark Gagnon for a rollicking discussion that weaves Jon Stewart-style observational humor through deep dives on conspiracy lore, the occult, the enigma of Jeffrey Epstein, Freemasons, secret societies, media manipulation, and how internet culture shapes the stories we tell and believe. Through irreverent jokes, personal anecdotes, and a shared curiosity for hidden knowledge, Julian and Mark deconstruct the blurred boundaries between truth and rumor in the modern age—while always keeping it funny.

Key Topics & Discussion Points

1. Movies, Satire & the Power of Narrative

• Kicking off with banter about "Inglorious Basterds" and foot fetishes, they riff on plagiarism in pop culture and famous movie openings (00:48–03:15).
• Commentary on separating the art from the artist—Harvey Weinstein, Michael Jackson, and the awkward truths behind famous works (03:09–03:32).

2. Jeffrey Epstein: Pervasive Power and Absurd Dark Comedy

• How Did Epstein Do It All?
  Gagnon wonders at the sheer breadth of Epstein's networking and manipulation:

  "I'm looking at his email schedule. I'm like, there's no...I don't know how he has the time. Like, this guy just was finding every way to do it. It's kind of crazy." (03:45)

• Stacey Plaskett Text Scandal:
  Explores Epstein’s real-time texting with a US Congresswoman during a hearing—an illustration of overt yet undetected influence (05:03–07:38).
• Media’s Role:
  Julian shouts out The Washington Post for detailed investigative work—"like they're watching NFL game tape" (04:50).

3. Conspiracies, Vindication & Learning From Skepticism

• Mark’s childhood under the tutelage of a conspiracy theorist mother:

  “I was homeschooled by this woman till the fifth grade. Like, I’m a classically trained conspiracy theorist… I was taught Building 7.” (08:45)

• The experience of seeing wild theories vindicated by later revelations (11:20–11:42).
• Satirical speculation on "gay frogs" and pop culture's love of the bizarre (11:42–12:16).

4. Tabloid Culture & Political Gossip

• Roasting contemporary scandals: RFK Jr., memoir-worthy affairs, and “felching” explained (via poetic metaphor) (16:01–17:27).
• Reading Napoleon’s romantic letters for comparison, Mark celebrates old-school passion over today’s emoji-filled texts:

  “There’s more passion in this than, like, anything I’ve read in the past 50 years.” (19:31)

5. Conspiratorial Parenting & Santa Claus as Social Programming

• Mark's mother blending mom life and “based” education:

  “9/11 is not real, but Santa is... Both of these things can be true.” (22:53)

• They joke that Santa Claus is the “gateway conspiracy” for kids—once trust breaks, anything is possible (28:53–29:08).

6. Politics, Faith, and Social Division

• NYC politics, rent crises, voting motivations, and social class stratification:

  “I’m gonna leave the city anyway, I can't afford it, so maybe this guy [Zoran] can lower it and give me another two years of life on my dream.” (41:36)

• Political caricature: “We could use a little Sharia law. I might take Shahada right now. I might become Muslim.” (35:42)

7. Occultism, Mysticism, and Secret Societies

• Aleister Crowley (“Crowley”):
  Mark gives an intricate recounting of Crowley’s occult travels, magick, and influence:

  “He was doing sexual rituals with the intent of communicating with demons or beings.” (70:43)

• Thelemite Legacy & NASA Connections:
  Outlines Crowley’s acolyte Jack Parsons, who bridged occultism and rocket science at JPL (75:23–76:59).
• Freemasonry Myths:
  Dissects Masonic history as a blend between medieval craft guilds and later American mystique:

  “It’s… this medieval men’s club where philosophers and New Age thinkers were meeting and talking. It’s kind of like a frat.” (128:51)

• Speculation on Freemason presidential ties, Scottish Rite, and the William Morgan disappearance (150:13–151:05).

8. Nazi Occultism & the Use of Mystics in War

• Julian and Mark explore Nazi Germany’s flirtation with occult beliefs and the role of Heinrich Himmler and secret societies (82:30–88:09).

  • Himmler’s quest for magical artifacts:

    “He sent these people out to go find like Thor’s hammer might be real. Let’s go get it.” (86:26)

• The British and Nazi efforts in psychic espionage, remote viewing, and Project Stargate (90:05–91:39).

9. Remote Viewing, Religion, and the Limits of Knowledge

• Delving into the CIA’s remote viewing experiments, skeptical but intrigued (91:40–92:36).
• Dramatic moment: a government psychic “physically disturbed” being asked about remote-viewing the Crucifixion (94:45–95:12).
• Comparative analysis between Crowley’s occultist “do as thou wilt” ethos and the Christian-inflected humility of Edgar Cayce (81:16).
• “The mask eats the face”—how playing a role online becomes reality (124:24).

10. The Age of Algorithmic Echo Chambers & Cultural Fragmentation

• Nuanced take on internet siloing:

  “I think things are...the algorithm’s answer is to silo things...You’re not feeling better. I turn off my phone, I’m not like, oh, that was so rewarding...it radicalizes people in every different direction.” (110:36–111:01)

• Plug for YouTuber Jreg’s Overton Window and “horseshoe theory”:

  “The window is not shifting anymore, it’s completely fractured.” (114:01)

11. Media Manipulation: Maxwell Hill, Reddit, and Disinfo

• The eerie silence of Reddit’s “MaxwellHill” account after Ghislaine Maxwell’s arrest; exploration of disinformation tactics (131:24–132:33).
• Julian notes the intelligence method of “mixing truth with absurdity to discredit the truth.” (134:41–134:59)

12. What Was Jeffrey Epstein?

• Theorizing Epstein’s role as compromised asset for multiple intelligence services, and as a financial black site and blackmailer:

  “He was using all this stuff connected... propped up because they knew they had this blackmail on him…” (136:58)

• Speculation on why governments shun full exposure of the case—so many are implicated (137:59–140:19).

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Conspiracies Coming True:
  "A lot of the crazy shit they were saying, let's say in like 06, 07, did come true." – Julian (11:20)
• On Culture & Comedy:
  "I love people and I think...an essential way to understand a culture is to understand their religion." – Mark (103:19)
• On Internet Outrage:
  "You can see a tweet with 50,000 likes and 3 million views, and you’re like, oh my god, that’s what everyone thinks. Most of those are bots." – Julian (115:16)
• On Sexual Scandals & Love Letters:
  "Well, he didn’t ban his hands, so those are two weapons right there...Those are the AR-15s!" – Mark riffing on Cuomo (37:25)
• On the Mask Eating the Face (Internet Personas):
  “This mask ends up becoming you. The character becomes the person.” – Mark (124:24)

Engaging, Memorable Moment Timestamps

• 05:03–07:09 — Epstein & Plaskett’s texts during a live congressional hearing
• 08:45–10:24 — Mark’s “classically trained conspiracy theorist” upbringing
• 16:01–17:27 — Defining “felching” and poetic love letters
• 22:53–23:12 — “9/11 is not real but Santa is.”
• 41:36–42:33 — Voting for dreams over politics in NYC
• 70:43–71:14 — The mechanics of sex magic & Crowley’s influence
• 82:30–87:29 — Nazi Germany, occultism, and psychic spy wars
• 94:45–95:12 — Remote viewer’s eerie silence on crucifixion
• 103:19–104:09 — The primacy of understanding religion/culture in comedy
• 110:36–112:01 — Psychological effects and silos of social media
• 128:51–129:41 — Mark visits the Boston Freemasons Temple (“it’s just a frat, really”)
• 131:24–132:33 — “Maxwell Hill,” Reddit, and the Ghislaine Maxwell conspiracy

Tone & Style

Casual, fast, riff-laden, self-deprecating humor; both self-aware and skeptical but deeply curious. Julian and Mark mix irreverence with rigorous detail, leaping from knee-slapping improv to serious historical breakdowns, always maintaining a rapport that signals earnestness beneath the jokes.

Key Takeaways

• Many "conspiracies" once sidelined are, with time, legitimized—though blind contrarianism can also mislead.
• Secret societies like the Freemasons, or even the occult, are better understood as historical social organizations than all-powerful puppet-masters—though their influence was real at certain times.
• Social media and algorithmic echo chambers make centrist, context-driven knowledge harder to access, driving polarization and absurdity.
• True understanding of people's motives—be it in faith, politics, or the occult—requires mixing healthy skepticism with open-minded inquiry.
• Figures like Epstein represent the convergence of elite impunity, exploitation, and systemic manipulation—across borders and ideologies.

Final References

• Mark Gagnon’s YouTube channel: "Camp Gagnon"
• Religion Camp, History Camp (YouTube projects)
• Flagrant podcast with Andrew Schulz
• YouTube: Jreg (Overton Window Theory)
• “The mask eats the face”—online personas and identity
• “Do as thou wilt”—the enduring, dangerous modernity of Crowley

This summary maintains the episode's irreverent, searching, and humorous style, conveying the depth of discussion and layered social commentary for listeners and non-listeners alike.