#366 - Secrets of the Freemasons, “Godfather” of Occultism & Epstein’s Strange Emails | Mark Gagnon

Summary

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Julian Dorey Podcast #366

Secrets of the Freemasons, “Godfather” of Occultism & Epstein’s Strange Emails | Mark Gagnon
Guest: Mark Gagnon | Date: December 16, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this wide-ranging, fast-paced conversation, Julian Dorey sits down with comedian and YouTube host Mark Gagnon for a rollicking discussion that weaves Jon Stewart-style observational humor through deep dives on conspiracy lore, the occult, the enigma of Jeffrey Epstein, Freemasons, secret societies, media manipulation, and how internet culture shapes the stories we tell and believe. Through irreverent jokes, personal anecdotes, and a shared curiosity for hidden knowledge, Julian and Mark deconstruct the blurred boundaries between truth and rumor in the modern age—while always keeping it funny.

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Key Topics & Discussion Points

1. Movies, Satire & the Power of Narrative

• Kicking off with banter about "Inglorious Basterds" and foot fetishes, they riff on plagiarism in pop culture and famous movie openings (00:48–03:15).
• Commentary on separating the art from the artist—Harvey Weinstein, Michael Jackson, and the awkward truths behind famous works (03:09–03:32).

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2. Jeffrey Epstein: Pervasive Power and Absurd Dark Comedy

• How Did Epstein Do It All?
  Gagnon wonders at the sheer breadth of Epstein's networking and manipulation:

  "I'm looking at his email schedule. I'm like, there's no...I don't know how he has the time. Like, this guy just was finding every way to do it. It's kind of crazy." (03:45)

• Stacey Plaskett Text Scandal:
  Explores Epstein’s real-time texting with a US Congresswoman during a hearing—an illustration of overt yet undetected influence (05:03–07:38).
• Media’s Role:
  Julian shouts out The Washington Post for detailed investigative work—"like they're watching NFL game tape" (04:50).

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3. Conspiracies, Vindication & Learning From Skepticism

• Mark’s childhood under the tutelage of a conspiracy theorist mother:

  “I was homeschooled by this woman till the fifth grade. Like, I’m a classically trained conspiracy theorist… I was taught Building 7.” (08:45)

• The experience of seeing wild theories vindicated by later revelations (11:20–11:42).
• Satirical speculation on "gay frogs" and pop culture's love of the bizarre (11:42–12:16).

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4. Tabloid Culture & Political Gossip

• Roasting contemporary scandals: RFK Jr., memoir-worthy affairs, and “felching” explained (via poetic metaphor) (16:01–17:27).
• Reading Napoleon’s romantic letters for comparison, Mark celebrates old-school passion over today’s emoji-filled texts:

  “There’s more passion in this than, like, anything I’ve read in the past 50 years.” (19:31)

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5. Conspiratorial Parenting & Santa Claus as Social Programming

• Mark's mother blending mom life and “based” education:

  “9/11 is not real, but Santa is... Both of these things can be true.” (22:53)

• They joke that Santa Claus is the “gateway conspiracy” for kids—once trust breaks, anything is possible (28:53–29:08).

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6. Politics, Faith, and Social Division

• NYC politics, rent crises, voting motivations, and social class stratification:

  “I’m gonna leave the city anyway, I can't afford it, so maybe this guy [Zoran] can lower it and give me another two years of life on my dream.” (41:36)

• Political caricature: “We could use a little Sharia law. I might take Shahada right now. I might become Muslim.” (35:42)

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7. Occultism, Mysticism, and Secret Societies

• Aleister Crowley (“Crowley”):
  Mark gives an intricate recounting of Crowley’s occult travels, magick, and influence:

  “He was doing sexual rituals with the intent of communicating with demons or beings.” (70:43)

• Thelemite Legacy & NASA Connections:
  Outlines Crowley’s acolyte Jack Parsons, who bridged occultism and rocket science at JPL (75:23–76:59).
• Freemasonry Myths:
  Dissects Masonic history as a blend between medieval craft guilds and later American mystique:

  “It’s… this medieval men’s club where philosophers and New Age thinkers were meeting and talking. It’s kind of like a frat.” (128:51)

• Speculation on Freemason presidential ties, Scottish Rite, and the William Morgan disappearance (150:13–151:05).

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8. Nazi Occultism & the Use of Mystics in War

• Julian and Mark explore Nazi Germany’s flirtation with occult beliefs and the role of Heinrich Himmler and secret societies (82:30–88:09).

  • Himmler’s quest for magical artifacts:

    “He sent these people out to go find like Thor’s hammer might be real. Let’s go get it.” (86:26)

• The British and Nazi efforts in psychic espionage, remote viewing, and Project Stargate (90:05–91:39).

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9. Remote Viewing, Religion, and the Limits of Knowledge

• Delving into the CIA’s remote viewing experiments, skeptical but intrigued (91:40–92:36).
• Dramatic moment: a government psychic “physically disturbed” being asked about remote-viewing the Crucifixion (94:45–95:12).
• Comparative analysis between Crowley’s occultist “do as thou wilt” ethos and the Christian-inflected humility of Edgar Cayce (81:16).
• “The mask eats the face”—how playing a role online becomes reality (124:24).

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10. The Age of Algorithmic Echo Chambers & Cultural Fragmentation

• Nuanced take on internet siloing:

  “I think things are...the algorithm’s answer is to silo things...You’re not feeling better. I turn off my phone, I’m not like, oh, that was so rewarding...it radicalizes people in every different direction.” (110:36–111:01)

• Plug for YouTuber Jreg’s Overton Window and “horseshoe theory”:

  “The window is not shifting anymore, it’s completely fractured.” (114:01)

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11. Media Manipulation: Maxwell Hill, Reddit, and Disinfo

• The eerie silence of Reddit’s “MaxwellHill” account after Ghislaine Maxwell’s arrest; exploration of disinformation tactics (131:24–132:33).
• Julian notes the intelligence method of “mixing truth with absurdity to discredit the truth.” (134:41–134:59)

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12. What Was Jeffrey Epstein?

• Theorizing Epstein’s role as compromised asset for multiple intelligence services, and as a financial black site and blackmailer:

  “He was using all this stuff connected... propped up because they knew they had this blackmail on him…” (136:58)

• Speculation on why governments shun full exposure of the case—so many are implicated (137:59–140:19).

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Conspiracies Coming True:
  "A lot of the crazy shit they were saying, let's say in like 06, 07, did come true." – Julian (11:20)
• On Culture & Comedy:
  "I love people and I think...an essential way to understand a culture is to understand their religion." – Mark (103:19)
• On Internet Outrage:
  "You can see a tweet with 50,000 likes and 3 million views, and you’re like, oh my god, that’s what everyone thinks. Most of those are bots." – Julian (115:16)
• On Sexual Scandals & Love Letters:
  "Well, he didn’t ban his hands, so those are two weapons right there...Those are the AR-15s!" – Mark riffing on Cuomo (37:25)
• On the Mask Eating the Face (Internet Personas):
  “This mask ends up becoming you. The character becomes the person.” – Mark (124:24)

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Engaging, Memorable Moment Timestamps

• 05:03–07:09 — Epstein & Plaskett’s texts during a live congressional hearing
• 08:45–10:24 — Mark’s “classically trained conspiracy theorist” upbringing
• 16:01–17:27 — Defining “felching” and poetic love letters
• 22:53–23:12 — “9/11 is not real but Santa is.”
• 41:36–42:33 — Voting for dreams over politics in NYC
• 70:43–71:14 — The mechanics of sex magic & Crowley’s influence
• 82:30–87:29 — Nazi Germany, occultism, and psychic spy wars
• 94:45–95:12 — Remote viewer’s eerie silence on crucifixion
• 103:19–104:09 — The primacy of understanding religion/culture in comedy
• 110:36–112:01 — Psychological effects and silos of social media
• 128:51–129:41 — Mark visits the Boston Freemasons Temple (“it’s just a frat, really”)
• 131:24–132:33 — “Maxwell Hill,” Reddit, and the Ghislaine Maxwell conspiracy

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Tone & Style

Casual, fast, riff-laden, self-deprecating humor; both self-aware and skeptical but deeply curious. Julian and Mark mix irreverence with rigorous detail, leaping from knee-slapping improv to serious historical breakdowns, always maintaining a rapport that signals earnestness beneath the jokes.

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Key Takeaways

• Many "conspiracies" once sidelined are, with time, legitimized—though blind contrarianism can also mislead.
• Secret societies like the Freemasons, or even the occult, are better understood as historical social organizations than all-powerful puppet-masters—though their influence was real at certain times.
• Social media and algorithmic echo chambers make centrist, context-driven knowledge harder to access, driving polarization and absurdity.
• True understanding of people's motives—be it in faith, politics, or the occult—requires mixing healthy skepticism with open-minded inquiry.
• Figures like Epstein represent the convergence of elite impunity, exploitation, and systemic manipulation—across borders and ideologies.

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Final References

• Mark Gagnon’s YouTube channel: "Camp Gagnon"
• Religion Camp, History Camp (YouTube projects)
• Flagrant podcast with Andrew Schulz
• YouTube: Jreg (Overton Window Theory)
• “The mask eats the face”—online personas and identity
• “Do as thou wilt”—the enduring, dangerous modernity of Crowley

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This summary maintains the episode's irreverent, searching, and humorous style, conveying the depth of discussion and layered social commentary for listeners and non-listeners alike.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

Hey, guys, if you're not following me on Spotify, please hit that follow button and leave a five star review. They're both a huge, huge help. Thank you. You just watched Inglorious Basterds for the first time ever last week. Where the have you been all your life, dude?

[A]

Let me tell you, you should see it 40 times. It's really good. It's really, really good. Did you guys like it? Dude, we got to talk about it. We have to talk about it. I don't want to ruin the end because there's some people that haven't seen it.

[B]

Listen, you haven't seen it. That's your fault. Spoiler alert.

[A]

It's really good, dude. Movies are fire. Turns out. I didn't know this. I never really watched movies. I'm not like, super into that, but turns out there's some good ones out there.

[B]

Yes, there are some excellent ones, especially by one Quentin Tarantino.

[A]

Exactly. And I was watching it the whole time was like, where are the feet? And then he gives them to you right at the end.

[B]

So every time that I did an Inglourious Basterds reference on any podcast we've.

[A]

Ever done, I thought you're quoting Winston Churchill. Yeah, it was history. I was like, we're just totally going.

[B]

With it and completely lying.

[A]

How do you think I felt when I watched in Glorious Bastard? I was like, oh, Julian was stealing this whole time. Of course I was stealing.

[B]

It's incredible.

[A]

I was so excited. I was like, damn, this guy's a poet. This guy's just so nice with words. Yeah, I just thought that's how you talked. I was like, I guess he had like a. I don't know, like a Cajun uncle or something. I didn't know.

[B]

Listen, here we are. It's a revolutionary film. It's probably. I always say this outside of the Godfather, which is. Which kind of set the standard for modern cinema. It has the best opening scene of all time.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

Glorious Basterds. As far as dialogue goes, you will never see a better scene. Like, I just picture Quentin Tarantino sitting in, like, a CD bar somewhere, like three and a half Beers deep, maybe a little bit of blow in a bathroom that's abandoned in the back that he can go and get a little bit of. Little bit of an edge every, like, 10 minutes just to keep remembering. And someone talking to him, next to him while he's like, shut the fuck up. And writing that whole story.

[A]

There are Jews under the floorboards. I think there are Jews under. Some guy's interrupting him. Not now. I'm trying to envision Jews under the floorboards. Please. Where was I?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Two glasses of milk, please. So you.

[B]

So you had never seen Christoph Waltz?

[A]

No, no. Oh, my God, not at all. But then I actually saw Alec Baldwin do that joke at the. At the Oscars. You saw this?

[B]

I did not see that.

[A]

He was like, oh, Christoph Waltz. You're. You're known as being the Jew hunter. You are, you know, in Glorious Passengers, the Jew Hunter. And over here is, you know, all the people that made the movie. So. Kristoff, the Mother Load. It's pretty good. That's pretty good.

[B]

Well, unfortunately, the one thing none of us really want to talk about is the fact that Harvey Weinstein was technically behind that movie.

[A]

He was behind a lot.

[B]

Yeah, he was behind a lot of people.

[A]

And movies and movies. And movies and movies. He was behind a lot of things. Yeah. Yeah. Unfortunately, the guy makes hits. You know what I mean? I don't know what it is. There's, you know, Michael Jackson made some good songs. He might have done some weird stuff.

[B]

He might have.

[A]

You know? He might have.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Jeffrey Epstein was a great financier. He did some good business. Like, I've been reading the emails.

[B]

No one ever saw that guy do business. That's the thing. Like, all the people that work for him, they're like, yeah, so you ever see him, like, do the job?

[A]

They're like, no. Yeah, he just. Turns out he was running the whole world. Every week there's a different email, and he's like, yeah, I'll be with Putin in Paris next week. And you're like, how do you have the time to be doing all the diddling? Like, but, like, I'm looking at his email schedule. I'm like, there's no. I don't know how he has the time. Like, this guy just was finding every. Every way to do it. It's kind of crazy.

[B]

Most ADHD trafficker of all time, right?

[A]

Like, on the side, he's trafficking, and then he's also, like, just texting congresswomen just like, hey, by the way, I just pushed this through. Like. Like, how do you have time to do everything?

[B]

Did you see that video?

[A]

Which one?

[B]

The one of. Of. Of Platner. Is that her name? Stacy Platner.

[A]

This is the woman that he was texting during the hearing. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Where he's like. Where he's like, are you chewing something? And she, like, looks up.

[A]

No, I didn't see it. I didn't see it.

[B]

You got to pull this.

[A]

I mean, in what world are our elected officials just on impractical jokers with Jeffrey Epstein? Like, how is that. Like, Epstein's just in an earpiece, like, chew, chew louder. Chew louder, Chew louder. And Epstein's in the back like, oh, she's chewing so loud.

[B]

Oh, dude, watch. By the way, I got to say, shout out to the Washington Post, like, whoever was over there doing, like, the play byplay video recording, like they're watching NFL game tape but pausing it by.

[A]

Chew it, chew it.

[B]

So this is in 2019. It's a hearing with Michael Cohen, who was Trump's former fixer before he was going to prison. They're all pulling him up on Washington, on the Hill, in Washington, questioning about Trump and all this. And while the questions are happening, it's about to come to Platner. Who? Or Plaskett. I'm sorry, that's her name, Stacy Plaskett. Who is. She represents the. Not Barbados. What does she represent?

[A]

Racist shit I ever heard. Yeah, she's probably representing Atlanta or something, by the looks of it. Anyway. Roll the tape. All right. What the hell, Julian? No, it's so racist.

[B]

She represents, like, the Virgin Islands or something.

[A]

That's it. I was close. All right. All right, I was close. I'll give you a pass.

[B]

So she's representing the Virgin Islands, where, you know, Epstein had a little island down there, so it makes sense. But she's from New York City. Okay. Which is interesting. I don't really understand that right there. But while she's, like, about to go up, she's texting Jeffrey Epstein, hey, I'm coming up right now. I need this information. And then literally it was like the assistant or something. And then literally her first question involves, like, the. The assistant that he texted the name. Let's play it.

[A]

Stacy Plasket. While she was sitting in a congressional hearing with President Trump's former lawyer, Michael Cohen in 2019, did they reach out to you to talk with you about these payments? No, ma'. Am. And documents recently released by the House Oversight Committee now show that Plasket, a delegate of the Virgin Islands, and Epstein, a resident of the Virgin Islands were coordinating in real time. Plasket's questioning of Trump's former fixer during the hearing at 2:24pm, Epstein texts Cohen brought up Rona, keeper of the secrets. Plaskett responds, Rona, quick, I'm up next. Is that an acronym? Epstein replies, that's his assistant. About seven minutes later, Plaskett asked Cohen about Trump's assistant as Ms. Rona. What is Ms. Rona's.

[B]

Rona Graff is the Mr. Trump's executive assistant.

[A]

And would she be able to corroborate many of the statements that you've made?

[B]

She was. Is directly next to his and she's involved in a lot that went on.

[A]

Though her name was redacted in the document. The Washington Post first reported that the timestamps line up with Plaskett's questioning in the hearing. Plaskett, who was a non voting delegate, faced a vote to censure her after the text came to light, but it ultimately failed. Plaskett has defended her text with Epstein saying that she took texts and calls from many of her constituents.

[B]

Oh, I've been a prosecutor for many.

[A]

I mean, that's like a good bul job. I will say, like, not knowing if it's a name or an acronym and then 30 seconds later being like, so, Rona, what does that mean to you? Like, it's kind of impressive. Like, you're kind of like, damn, you kind of nailed it. I wish you just went Ron Burgundy with it, though. I wish she was like, so, Rona, smiley face. What do you. Rona, not. Why would I say smiley face? That makes no sense. I mean, that's insane. It's literally impractical. Jokers. Like, it's hilarious to me.

[B]

What's crazy, though, it would be one thing if this was like, oh, two, and he's some billionaire donor and she legit knows him and doesn't know what's going on.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The guy was convicted in 08.

[A]

This is 11 years later.

[B]

Like, where you been, lady? There's. There's been articles in every fucking magazine about him.

[A]

Even if people, like, ignored it in, like, the mainstream.

[B]

Like, let's prosecute it for a while again.

[A]

Mm.

[B]

But, like, it just blows my mind. The more you look at this case and we've been looking at it, obviously, for years. I know you've looked at a bunch, too. The more it's like, how is this not like a. Like a joke on everyone?

[A]

Yeah, dude, it's. Do you know how pissed I am that all these years later my mom was right oh, Bilderberg, Gagnon, all this, dude. Like, since I was a little kid, I. I've told you this before. Like, my mom was a conspiracy theorist for years. Like, she still is, you know, adjacent to the community. And, like, I was homeschooled by this woman until the fifth grade. Like, I was literally. I'm a classically trained conspiracy theorist. Like, I'm like. Like, some kids have, like, you know, like, with Asian parents or I guess Asian kids. I don't know what they. Like, they'll be taught, like, violin and shit, you know, I was taught, like, Building 7. Like, that was, like, my childhood. And my mom for years was like, well, you know, Mark, obviously, our government is controlled by an elite group of pedophiles. And, like, I would argue with her. I was like, there's no way that these people are controlled by pedophiles. And then this shit comes out, and I'm like, God damn it. My mom was right. I feel. I'm like. I got to call her and be like, I'm sorry.

[B]

Where was she getting her info from back then?

[A]

Like, Ask Jeeves Deep, dude. She was. She was on all the forums. She would go on arguments with people. She would argue with people on, like, early forums and then print them out and then show me the arguments, and she'd be like, yeah, I accidentally conceded this point early on, and then this guy actually pulled it up later. I lost this argument.

[B]

Oh, she was. She was analyzing.

[A]

Oh, yeah, she's a brilliant woman. And so she would, like, go. Evidently, she's a brilliant. I don't even think she's a conspiracy.

[B]

Theorist, by the way.

[A]

She's. Stop it. Don't you do that. Don't you dare. This is. This is. This is a strange bit, okay, where Julian is alleging that he had some type of intimate relationship with my mother, which is not true.

[B]

I can't compl.

[A]

This is not true. But he has been checking his phone throughout this conversation. I'm afraid she's feeding him info. Okay? I don't like it one bit. She's fantastic.

[B]

Plas trying to hit that, too.

[A]

But, dude, she was on it for years. I don't even think she's a conspiracist. I think she's vindicated. I think she's just an intelligence asset at this point. Oh, like, she knows too much. She knows everything.

[B]

You think she was. You were, like, getting monarched or something?

[A]

Something like that. I don't know. Like, I might have been MK Ultra without the drugs.

[B]

Someone get a teddy bear out and.

[A]

Ask them, dude, it's crazy.

[B]

How old were you? Like, you were homeschooled till when?

[A]

Fifth grade. I went to school like halfway through fifth grade, so I don't even know what does that make me? 10? Something like that. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And so my mom would just give me books and I would just read them and then we would debate and then she would show me, like, I swear to God, we should like, we would like just go back and forth. Or she would like show me Lady Gaga videos and be like, look at the symbolism. Checkered, like checkered floor. This is classic freemasonic symbolism. I'm like, it was like, this is insane. But now she might be right on everything. I got to go back to all of our files.

[B]

At least some of it for sure. That's the thing. Like the people who were the classically trained conspiracy theorists. Yes. Huge air quotes right there. It's like you can argue with a fucking wall. A lot of the crazy shit that they were saying, let's say in like 06 07, 2011, 2012, it did come true.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know. Now does that mean that the frogs are gay? Not necessarily. Maybe they are.

[A]

How do you tell. How do you even test if a frog's gay? Could be like, what is a gay frog even look like? Right. We got to ask these questions. Who's the scientists going out there like, testing the frogs? Like, this one seems kind of gay. Ribbit would be, you know, ribbit, ribbit. Like, this frogs for sure gated. Did I pull my dick out? He put his tongue on it. That's a gay frog for sure. They need more of these gay tests. We gotta figure it out.

[B]

I was telling you back in the.

[A]

Life is hate.

[B]

Biggest problem with the frogs and they were very gay.

[A]

Homosexual. That's why I like belching.

[B]

How about that story?

[A]

Wait, what? Oh, yeah. I haven't even really gotten up to speed with this, but turns out RFK is a. He's a freak. A little bit of a daddy dude. Be honest. I seen him doing push ups without a shirt. I'm like, yeah, I get it. You know what I mean? I get it. The guy. The guy. The guy's a piece. You've seen him shirtless, right?

[B]

Hey, listen, I'm not arguing that the dude's in shape. I mean, he. He looks good. Yeah, he's into some bro and so what?

[A]

He cheated on his wife. Is this the story?

[B]

Is the allegation news alert?

[A]

But you know, hell yeah, that's.

[B]

That's not who we're Talking. He's. One day he's straight as an arrow. Let's.

[A]

Let's.

[B]

Let's give.

[A]

You got this freaking guinea on this on the Google machine.

[B]

Goes right to Vito from the Sopranos insinuating horrible things about Robert Kennedy Jr.

[A]

Dude deep can't help himself. Just anytime we reference something, hey, pull it up. It's just an Italian restaurant. You're like, dude, you can't just. Not everything is the Godfather.

[B]

Yeah, you thought he was Jewish until 10 minutes ago when you said he was Jewish.

[A]

I did not say. Did not say. Last time we were at the studio in Brooklyn, you guys were like, yeah, he's Jewish.

[B]

No, we were joking. That you should. He's like, where was your Jewish uncle? And then you pointed to him. So he played the bit. He's an actor.

[A]

Well, there we go. I didn't realize this. I thought you were like half Jewish, half Italian. I don't know. He might be. He might be something. I don't know if it's short.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

You guys sometimes change names? I have no idea. I don't know all the details.

[B]

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[A]

Kraft Mac and Cheese is the best thing ever. It's even better than pop music. You look just as natural enjoying us at age 13 as you do 55. Kraft Mac and Cheese. Best thing ever.

[B]

So apparently. And you know what? Listen. What people do in their private lives, I don't care. I think it's weird that this nuzzy girl is writing a memoir about this. Like, she cheated on her fiance or whatever happened here.

[A]

That's good dick right there. Well, that's what it is.

[B]

No, she apparently was getting it from Sanford too. Remember the dude that, like, cheated on his wife when he was governor with a lady and knocked her up in, like, Columbia or some.

[A]

No.

[B]

Yeah. Can we pull that up?

[A]

Thief.

[B]

That was old story.

[A]

I mean, look at that. I don't think. I don't think. I don't think there's nothing I could lay down that would be worthy of a memoir. Like, do you think your. Your sexual exploits could be memoir worthy?

[B]

No. No. Maybe a piece you have to really.

[A]

Do in today's culture.

[B]

You better be like a dog, right? Like a dog's dog. I don't think dog walking the dog.

[A]

Of a dog, exactly.

[B]

Yeah. No, but that's what I'm saying. Like, she's like, yeah, I. This ex governor broke up probably his fifth marriage. I. You know, rfk, which apparently they're saying, like, that didn't happen. But he was like, texting her about this. I had to Google what this was. I ain't gonna lie. I didn't know what it was. But this thing called felching, and he's like a writer.

[A]

Don't lie.

[B]

So I did not know what this was. Mark, have you ever heard the term felching before?

[A]

Of course, but you explain it.

[B]

What's, your mom teach you that in fourth grade?

[A]

Yes, it's part of my.

[B]

Listen, she was talented.

[A]

Whoa, Come on, don't do that. What the hell's wrong with this guy? This guy's an animal. Anyway.

[B]

But. So it's like I can't even describe it on camera. You can Google it for yourselves. But he would write it in, like, poetic form. Allegedly. I'm not sure If I believe that.

[A]

During a congressional hearing, he's like, getting.

[B]

Sworn, and he's like, hold that question center. It was like, I'm gonna. What was it she said? You are my canyon, and I'm the river that's going to flow through.

[A]

Oh, that's hot. That's hot.

[B]

I'm like, that's kind of a bar. Yeah.

[A]

It's like Napoleon writing to his wife. You ever read those letters?

[B]

No.

[A]

They're dirty. We pull that, he's like, baby, I'll be home in three days. Don't shower.

[B]

Oh, don't shower.

[A]

Man, that gets me bricked. Oh, nothing better than that. Dude, that is romance. You know what I mean?

[B]

I feel like you would have known about that. This is the kind of letter deep would be. Well, the French, like, I mean, they don't shower.

[A]

Oh, my God. Because they're.

[B]

They're already throwing some odors, you know? Yeah.

[A]

Let's throw a few of those.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So I hear as a. As a Parisian, I was born in Paris.

[B]

No, you were conceived in Paris.

[A]

I was born there.

[B]

Wait, you were actually born and conceived.

[A]

Conceived and born. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Live there, like, three years.

[B]

I don't remember that. All right, so. All right, so this is some Napoleonic letters. Can we zoom this a little? There we go. Yeah. All right. April, 1796. That was a hell of a year.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I have your letters of the 16th and 21st. There are many days when you don't write. What do you do then? No, my darling, I am not jealous. But sometimes worried come sooner is jealous, Dude.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

I warn you, if you delay, you will find me ill. Fatigue in your absence are too much. Your letters are the joy of my days. And my days of happiness are not many. Junot is bringing 22 flags to Paris. You must come back with him. You understand? Hopeless. Oh, this is like a menagerie to a kind of.

[A]

Oh, dude, he's a dog.

[B]

Oh, he's like, yes, but he wants a dude as the twa.

[A]

He wants everything. He's a conqueror, Dude. He wants conquest.

[B]

But if you're a conqueror, you want two women as the twa.

[A]

You want anything French. Dude, you don't understand.

[B]

True. It's called Eiffel Tower for a reason. Hopeless sorrow, inconsolable misery, Sadness without end. If I am so unhappy as to see him return alone, adorable friend, he will see you. He will breathe in your temple. This is rfk. Perhaps you will even grant him the unique and perfect favor of kissing your cheek. And I shall be alone and far, far Away cooking myself.

[A]

Yes, but you.

[B]

I did that last part. Edited by me. But you are coming, aren't you? Pause. You are going to be here because me in my arms, on my breast, on my mouth. Take. Wow.

[A]

He really was like.

[B]

This is. He's artistic with it, right? A kiss on your heart. And one much lower down, much lower.

[A]

Let's go. I mean, fire, right? I mean, does this. It's. There's more passion in this than, like, anything I've read in the past 50 years.

[B]

I know. Like, where have, like, love letters gone?

[A]

Exactly. Right.

[B]

Love love letters.

[A]

Exactly. They're in the text with old Bobby, you know?

[B]

Yeah, well, now people just send, like, a eggplant emoji or something, you know? I'm saying, where's the beauty in the words?

[A]

Yeah, I guess. I mean, I would love to see all the text. I wonder if he was, like, sexting, like, using, like, his family name. You know what I mean?

[B]

Like.

[A]

Yeah, baby, give me jfk.

[B]

You ever gotten JFK before? I've never gotten jfk.

[A]

You know what that is?

[B]

No.

[A]

It's when you get. Messy head in the back of a car.

[B]

That's road thumb.

[A]

No, no, you're not here. What I'm saying. Messy head in the back of a car, messy heading. Jfk.

[B]

Yeah. Why are you doing that? Why'd you do that with your hands? Come on.

[A]

I feel like I. I can't. There we go.

[B]

That took a minute. Your hands sent me somewhere else.

[A]

That's one for the ride home. You know what I mean? That's one you're driving home. You're like, damn, that was pretty good.

[B]

This was throwing me off. I'm like, why? Why are you doing this?

[A]

Yeah, it's a punchline.

[B]

And then Christos did the pop, right? Messy head in the back of a car. That's.

[A]

That's mean. Well, dude, I didn't say it. I didn't say it.

[B]

I mean, you did. Let's run the tape.

[A]

I didn't say it. These were real texts, okay? That was sent during a congressional hearing.

[B]

I didn't say it. Jfk. Imagine if he. If RFK said that.

[A]

Banger. It was his uncle. He didn't even know him. It's fine.

[B]

Banger.

[A]

Dude. I'm just saying, that's how I would sex if I was a Kennedy. Oh, I might. I mean, I would be sexing non stop. Come on.

[B]

I've heard. I've heard some interesting stories from up there at the. What's it called? The Hyannis Port? Like, compound or Whatever.

[A]

Really? Yeah. Well, I've heard that.

[B]

It's not for public domain, but I've heard some stories.

[A]

I heard JFK was down in Cuba getting active back in the day. You ever heard this?

[B]

He's getting active?

[A]

Yeah, he was. He was down there, back in Cuba.

[B]

In Havana, Batista days.

[A]

Yeah, like, he was down there just as. Like a. Like a senator, congressman, before he was president. He was down there just.

[B]

Yeah, like at the casinos, trying to.

[A]

Get box, you know, just meeting some ladies, see what happens. And maybe got blackmailed.

[B]

Oh, you think he got blackmailed?

[A]

This is the allegation. Of course. Again, I don't have all the details here, but this is what people have said. It's pretty interesting. Who's.

[B]

Who's. Whose people?

[A]

My mom. My mom. My mom is the one that told me. Damn it. Which. It'll. It'll come to light in five to six years. Okay. Just give us some time. Okay. But it was said.

[B]

It was said, the difference between a conspiracy theory and the truth. Time, Mrs. Gagnon. Plus six.

[A]

Bro. I'm telling you. I don't know if it's always before, but, like, it was funny because, like, my mom would still do, like, mom stuff, but also conspiracy stuff. Like, did I say this? Like, she would do this, like, because she was the best mom, but also was on the conspiracy wave. So she'd be like, you know, 9. 11 is not real, but Santa is. Like, as a child, you can imagine.

[B]

That'S like method acting.

[A]

You can imagine my surprise. You know, as an adult, I understand they're both inside jobs, but, like, when I was a kid, I was like, yeah, you know, this is. This is the facts of the world. You know what I mean? Building 7 was destroyed in a controlled demolition, but also, you know, the Easter Bunny exists.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And both of these things can be true.

[B]

It is very, very interesting that you are seeing more and more now, though, on a serious note, like, of the 11. The 9. 11 victims. Families openly coming out and discussing how, like. Yeah. The truth of that day is being completely concealed.

[A]

Yeah, Well, I think Tucker just dropped a whole thing on it. I didn't watch it. Yeah, but he's like. He's going hard in the pain on that. So I'm like, all right, well, I.

[B]

Watched, like, three or four parts of it, I think, so far. And I mean, it's hard to argue with some of it. And he's got people who were like. They're like people in the FBI and stuff that are saying, this has never sat right with me. And I know I've talked, like, some of my guys I've talked to before who were there back in the day, they've all said the same thing.

[A]

Yeah. I don't know. At a certain point, you get so close to the truth and you're like, we need to go back. We need more lies. We need America to believe in the lies. You know what I mean? I'm flipping all the way back, being raised by conspiracy. There's. I'm going back statecraft. I'm like, yeah, we need everyone to be like, dude, this was an attack by the Iraqis. And that's why we went there. This is what happened. That's on board. That's how racist America is. We got attacked by, like, a bunch of, like, you know, radicals, many of which were from Saudi Arabia. And then we're like, dude, we're gonna go to Iraq. And everyone was like, yeah, yeah, we're going. They look similar. That's like, how dumb we are that we're like, yeah, that's where we gotta go. Those people did it, right? And America's like, yeah, yeah, those people for sure. 100.

[B]

Could you ever not trust that dude? How could you not trust?

[A]

Pour one out for the homie, dude.

[B]

Rip in piss. This was probably the. I think Tim Dillon wrote the greatest obituary of all times. When. When I look for an obituary, I like brevity. Like, I like people that can summarize someone's life in a sentence.

[A]

I need gladiator. Thumbs up or thumbs down.

[B]

That's what I'm saying. Exactly.

[A]

What is it?

[B]

And it's shaking.

[A]

What is it?

[B]

It's gonna go. You got one second to make it go. What was the one in Mad Men where the old dude who co owned the company comes up and the old secretary had died, and they're like, trying to come up with an okay.

[A]

Seen it. Someone else. And.

[B]

And he's like, she was born in a barn and died in the 33rd. In the 33rd story of a skyscraper. She was an astronaut. And I was just like, that's it.

[A]

But.

[B]

And he just walks out. And everyone's like, oh, we'll go with that. But Tim Dillon writes about Dick Cheney, who was his father. Little known fact. Rest easy, daddy. Fly as high as Flight 93, which you shot down.

[A]

We. We wish him well. We wish him well. That's all you can really say, we wish him well?

[B]

I can't say I. I cannot say I cried.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

When he was gone.

[A]

Yeah. I don't. Yeah, I'm good.

[B]

The World felt a little calmer. Yeah. There's like a little reverberation. I don't know if you believe in vibes, but.

[A]

But as a Christian, all death is sad and all people are worthy of human life. Okay.

[B]

All of them.

[A]

Every single one. I mean, I'm not gonna go to the funeral, but. Did they have the funeral yet? They did. They did. Who pulled up? I bet you there's some people that are like, do I have to go to this?

[B]

Oh, definitely. The whole fucking. Everyone from the government was probably thinking that outside the people that were in on it with them.

[A]

Yeah, I guess, right? These political funerals are fascinating. You ever see the letters that get patched out at H. Bush's funeral?

[B]

The letters.

[A]

Have you never seen this? This is.

[B]

Oh, when they're. When they're.

[A]

Oh, yeah, this is great conspiracy lore. This is just awesome. Just like, they're passing out letters to everyone. Jeb is looking at it like, oh.

[B]

It'S probably like a dick on each of them. They're like, watch all these people talk about us. I'll show you a skull and bone.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. Right. I hope Epstein was the one that sent them. Just like, show this to Jeb at the funeral. It's gonna blow his mind.

[B]

That's the worst part about these emails. He's unintentionally funny, and I hate myself for it.

[A]

Wait, which ones?

[B]

Like, the fucking emails he writes are so funny because they're like, he's dealing with, like, global issues and talking about it like a child. Typos and like, old school smiley faces.

[A]

Yeah, and like, no, no grammar. No, no punctuation.

[B]

The spacing looks like Dave Portnoy. And, like, his email is like, J E E vacation dot com.

[A]

Like, what, the travel agent. These are the people that are controlling the world. Isn't that great? Just, no, no grammar, no punctuation. It's kind of insane. It's nice to know he wrote them. He didn't have, like, an early release to, like, GPT or something. Like, he was going, like, actual thumbs. Just like.

[B]

I don't even think he was thumbs. I think he was hunting and pecking. We'll be in island in 10.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's kind of scary. And my mom was telling me. She was telling me about Epstein years ago. She was like, look when. I mean, it was like, after, like, the Miami Herald, like, article came out.

[B]

She'S like, Julie Brown's thing.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. This was like 2016, 2011.

[B]

Or.

[A]

No, this is like.

[B]

Or 2017.

[A]

It was like 20, 15, 26. She was like, you should look into this guy. It's like, all right, all right. She's gonna be on a watch list now. I'm telling you, she's all over it. I don't even know if I want to. Like, I just imagine Mark, like playing Xbox or something. She comes down with like a file. She's like, listen, I got.

[B]

I got something for you. Do I just want you to look at.

[A]

Yes, dude. It's crazy. You can be both things. A great mom and also based.

[B]

Where the is my meatloaf?

[A]

I don't know, dude. It's kind of wild. I don't know if I'm going to do Santa with my kids for this reason. It, like, freaks me out.

[B]

I mean, you already look like Santa, sort of.

[A]

I'm like a young Santa.

[B]

Yeah, you throw a little lights in there, you'll be all right.

[A]

But a part of me is just like, yeah, you're lying to your kids. You know, I mean, I'm going to keep my kids just locked in on the truth, non stop. That's my goal.

[B]

Santa's a conspiracy. Grow the up.

[A]

Yes, exactly. Three, exactly. Well, it is the biggest conspiracy. I'm convinced that people become conspiracy theorists through Santa. This is my work. This is my working theory. Because writing a paper on this, I'm going to. I want to do a whole dissertation, maybe a dossier, hand it out to people in Congress, because it's like.

[B]

It's a strong word.

[A]

Thank you. I knew a girl.

[B]

That's not a compliment, but it was.

[A]

Like, the Santa thing is crazy because it's like you grow up your whole life and people are like, yeah, Santa's real. And then you go to the grocery store and you're like, there's no way everyone can be in on this. And then some old lady will be like, be good, or Santa won't get you any present. And so everyone's in on it. Everyone's concealing the truth from an entire population of people. And then you reach an age where you're like, I don't think Santa's real. And then everyone's like, yeah, you dumb ass. Why would you ever believe In Santa? You're 17 years old. And I'm like, I don't know. Because everyone I trusted in my life told me this is a real thing. But now I look like a doofus at school being like, guys, I got to be good. It's crazy, right?

[B]

It's about the magic of Christmas, Mark. That's all. It's Supposed to be, I guess, but then you got.

[A]

Yeah, right. You get Jewish guys, like, deep getting presents also. I'm like, why is he getting presents?

[B]

Santa's going to his house, doesn't care about Israel, Palestine.

[A]

Where is he on the issues? Where is he on the issues? Are Russian kids still getting presents? There's Christians in Gaza.

[B]

There's a lot of questions in Gaza.

[A]

Where are they getting. Or is everyone getting presidents? This is what I don't understand. Is Santa going over to Putin's house, being like, all right, here you go.

[B]

Like, no, no, he's getting cold. Well, any politicians getting cold?

[A]

He's probably happy with that. Honestly. He's like, we need the resources.

[B]

Fucking. He's probably turned off.

[A]

We need the resources.

[B]

Stick that coal on my nipples.

[A]

They. They destroyed the NORD pipeline or whatever. Like, we need energy somehow. Okay, we'll take all the coal you can get. Maybe that's why they're doing it. They're trying to make their country as evil as possible so they can get as much natural fucking fuel as they can.

[B]

State statewide naughty list.

[A]

It's a requirement. Yeah, it's kind of smart, right? Dude, we're solving the energy crisis one terrible child at a time. It's kind of genius.

[B]

Dude, how have you not done a podcast with your mom yet?

[A]

I need to. I. I asked her about it once, and she was like, yeah, maybe. Maybe I'll. You know. But then I think she kind of got scared.

[B]

I'll talk to her.

[A]

I'm gonna see her on here in two weeks. Whoa. The hell?

[B]

I got the exclusive.

[A]

The. Who's her agent? The hell happened?

[B]

I don't think your mom would have an agent. I feel like she'd be like, nah, they did Building Seven.

[A]

She wouldn't trust anyone, dude, for sure. Oh, man.

[B]

I just want to get her thoughts on the issues of the day. Like, where is she on everything?

[A]

Was. Every time I do a pie, she messaged me. She's like, how is Zuron? I'm like, he was a nice guy. I really liked him. He's really sweet.

[B]

Oh, she was probably so upset about that.

[A]

Oh, she. She's upset about all of it. Like, not literally, but she's just like, ah, just okay. She's like. She's like, how was Trump? Who is he with? I'm like, dude, I don't. It's. I. What?

[B]

There was a lizard outside.

[A]

The problem is that, like, so an.

[B]

Iguana in New York. Subway.

[A]

Yeah. I'm like, everything is too normal. Like, she's asking me what's going on? Like, it's all very normal. If anything, I'm the weird one. Like, even during the Trump pod, I was sitting there, and I was like, what if I go crazy right now? That was my actual thought.

[B]

What did you. Did you have, like, serious intrusive thoughts?

[A]

Oh, 1 million percent. Yes, I could.

[B]

I could take it all down right.

[A]

Now, literally, if you watch the tape. If you watch me, I'm sitting there quietly the whole time, and in my brain, I'm like, what if I just punched him in the. Like, what? Like, what if I just kissed him? What if I made out with Trump right now? How many tongue punches could I get before Secret Service steps in? And I'm literally going through it. I'm like, I bet you I get three or four. And then he looks at me. He's like, I like your hair. And I'm like, yeah, you too. What was. Yeah, what was I thinking of, son?

[B]

Like, it's natural.

[A]

Yeah. You want to pull on it or what? What did I say? I'm, like, literally thinking this as we're sitting there. I'm like, dude, I could make out with this guy, and no one can stop. Like, it's like. It scares you. You know what I mean? Like, the intrusive thoughts get in there, and they're, like, stuck. And then he's talking about getting assassinated. He's like, yeah, they tried to kill me. And I'm like, yeah, it's just, like.

[B]

A few weeks later, too literally.

[A]

He's like, you're like.

[B]

You're, like, trying to touch the ear.

[A]

Next to the ear, too, literally. I'm looking at it.

[B]

I'm like, maybe didn't Alex think it, like, wasn't real?

[A]

Yeah, I was like, your ear looks.

[B]

Was he, like, really?

[A]

Yeah, shit's real. He was inspecting. He was inspecting. But, like, dude, it was. It was a trip. And then Zo Run was so nice. He was just, like, so charming, like, professional.

[B]

Listen, the guy. Politics aside, the guy on the campaign trail was unreal. Star. He's a political star.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, you couldn't trust him as far as you could fucking throw him, but he's a political star.

[A]

And then him and T Dog are just chilling in the Oval Office, just chopping it up. Just homies. And then I just love seeing former podcast guests just enjoying each other. You know what I mean?

[B]

Like, I just love flagrant alumni.

[A]

I just love seeing the alumni getting together for a meeting, you know? It's just nice to see them all just, you know, happy I will. Just makes my heart warm.

[B]

Probably one of the funniest clips I've ever seen is Trump sitting at the desk with Zoron, like, right there. And they're like, zoran, you've. You've called Donald Trump a fascist after meeting with him. Would you. And he's just like, no, you don't have to answer that. You know, it dances. Yes, good.

[A]

He's like, it's just easier.

[B]

Yes, it's just easier.

[A]

It's so pro. The two of them kind of being like, yeah, we get it, you know? But, like, I had so many people, even after the Zoran episode, hit me up, being like, dude, don't vote for this guy. He's bad news. He's bad.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I was like, why? And they're like, he's gonna. And I'm sure there's plenty of reasons to vote or not to vote for someone, but the reasons they were giving me were just awful. They were like, dude, he's gonna turn New York City into a Muslim country.

[B]

Yeah. I never bought that.

[A]

New York City's gonna be under Sharia law.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I was like, I don't think. But after looking into Sharia law, we could use a little. I think, like, a little.

[B]

I think the first person to disagree would be his wife. Yeah, well, she don't look too Sharia to me.

[A]

I don't know, man. We could. I think everyone would. I think the city would be a little better with a tiny bit of Sharia.

[B]

Like, how much? Like 1%, 50%. 50.

[A]

A lot of our problems.

[B]

What does that cover them all the way up to the tits?

[A]

Yeah, cover them up or whatever. Like, leave the head out. Yeah, exactly. The face out.

[B]

What about the driving?

[A]

Well, that's.

[B]

No female drivers.

[A]

One of the major benefits, right? What does everyone say? Like, oh, congestion so bad. Well, you can't drive now, so that's half the problem. Right. Like, that's going to clear 50% of it, you know? Enjoy the L train, ladies. Like, this is for the city. Oh, but guys are jerking off on the subway. Well, yeah, if you're covered up, that'll. That'll block it a little. That's like a poncho at Sea World. Right? Like, that'll stop some of the spray. I'm just saying it'll. The city might be better for it. Okay. Oh, there's no. No vacancy. The rent is so high. It's for real. Right? Like, well, every man has four wives now. That's going to consolidate a lot of the apartments. Okay. We're gonna have a lot of places to live. Look into it. I'm for it, bro. I might take Shahada right now. I might become Muslim.

[B]

Yeah, I feel like some of the arguments people would make were dumb. I wouldn't argue, though, with the socioeconomic plans and stuff. Like, I believe people when they tell you what they're gonna do. The thing about him that you have to look at objectively, though, is two things. One, look who the fuck he was running against.

[A]

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[B]

Like, you're gonna get people excited for Andrew Cuomo. Are you out of your mind?

[A]

Thief was fired up, dude. His Italian roots were coming out. He's like, well, this is a good guy. He's a good guy.

[B]

We kiss, we hug.

[A]

They got a bridge named after them. It can't be that bad. Come on. Come on. It's not. Not sexual assault.

[B]

Remember when. Who was the one girl, the Emily Austin girl, started, like, the. I'm starting the hot girls for Cuomo, and then she didn't buy the Domain, and the Domain went straight to his, like, sexual assault investigation.

[A]

5D. 5D chess. Fire. Also, wasn't that Cuomo's defense is that they were like. He was, like, Italian.

[B]

Sometimes we kiss on the cheek. I mean, and we touch the hips.

[A]

Fire, right? She said sexual.

[B]

I will say this. I bought some of it.

[A]

I did. Well, you know, too many Italians. Like. Yeah, I get it.

[B]

Like, I didn't. I didn't feel like, you know, Stevie the Mooch was ever sexually assaulting women.

[A]

When they came over for dinner. Yeah. And then all my Italian friends, like, dude, look, he did some good stuff. You know, He. He did some. Look. Look at what he did. He banned assault weapons. Right? That's good. And I was like, well, he didn't ban his hands, so, you know, those were. Those are two. Those are two weapons right there. I don't think I banned. So we can look into that. You know, those are the AR15s. You know what I mean? 15 years old, I think. Allegedly. Okay, these are jokes. This is not real. This is alleged.

[B]

Oh, my God. I hope he gets sued for this episode.

[A]

Allegedly. Allegedly. So, yeah, he had him. And then he had Sliwa. Legend. All time legend. I actually ride with Sleewa, dude. I like him. I. I don't want Sleewa to be mayor. I just wanted to be, like, the president of New York. Like, I just want him to, like, and just do, like, press releases and just go out there and just be like, yeah, the Gambino family, we gotta root them out. Like, because that is New York. Like, you need that kind of energy in some type of public capacity.

[B]

I did need that podcast from you guys. That was one disappointment. Like, after Zo Run, you needed to have sleep on too, right?

[A]

No, not Cuomo. Not Cuomo. Yeah, that's good, but you need to have sleep. Yeah, dude, it'd be awesome. Sleep would be fun.

[B]

He's like, he can still pull up.

[A]

Yeah, dude. One million percent. One million percent. He.

[B]

I don't know if we can find this on Twitter Deep Sliwa on why he won't drop out. You know, obviously he's getting a lot of for it because, like, Zoran won. And they're like, well, you split the vote.

[A]

But even that would have been an answer.

[B]

Yeah, I think. I think Zoron still would have won.

[A]

I mean, by the votes, technically, even if you added up Cuomo and Sleepwaz or on still wondering wins.

[B]

Oh, it ended up being that far.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I didn't know that he gave an answer. No, it wasn't there. If you go to Twitter Deep, maybe you can find was in. Like, it was on some podcast that I actually hadn't seen before. No disrespect, but, you know, he's given an answer, but they're like, well, why won't you drop out? And he's like, you know what?

[A]

You.

[B]

I got people running on my ticket. And he. And he went on this, like, where he did not stutter for two, two and a half minutes. And at the end of the answer, I was like, wow. Pretty hard to argue with all that. But one of the. One of the many things he said was that I have all these judges, these local assemblymen, all these people, some of whom actually could win and we'd have to check, but maybe some of them actually did who have been running on my ticket for the past year, plus, and if I drop out, they're now gonna lose.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

The ones that actually can win in some of these different districts. So he's like, like, what. What message does that send?

[A]

It's honorable.

[B]

Yeah. So there was a Part of that where I'm like, okay. And also, again, it felt like it was insurmountable. It felt like Zoron was, you know, you can say what you want about the guy politically for sure. The way he ran the campaign and the way he went and spoke to people where they were and didn't, you know, for example, judge people who decided to vote for Trump in the last election and instead just asked them why they did it and, you know, tried to say, well, here's how I can help. It was. It was brilliant, man.

[A]

And actually had ideas.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know what I mean? And New York is expensive, and it's becoming increasingly so. And I can understand why people associate with that feeling, especially, like, artists and, like, New York cannot become just like a tech hub, you know, Like, I just don't want to see New York is like, oh, it's only a bunch of rich people. And then everyone has to, like, come in from outer boroughs, just. You know what I mean? Like, I think the essence of New York is you got rich dudes that pay for and then you got poor artists that make cool shit to buy. You know what I mean?

[B]

And, like, you have the working class in between, too.

[A]

Yeah, you need both.

[B]

You need all of it.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

That's what makes New York have a heartbeat, in my opinion.

[A]

What are we gonna become? San Jose or some, like, it's become like some tech city with all these dudes invests. Like, I don't want that.

[B]

I agree.

[A]

So it's like, you need the mix. And Zoron's over here being like, not only am I going to lower your rent, because you got to think these guys are on a limited timeline, right? They're like, okay, I have have five grand left to my name, and this guy is saying he's going to lower my rent, he's going to freeze it. That's. He's giving me time on my dream. You know what I mean?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so it's like, I. I'm gonna leave the city anyway. I can't afford to live here, so this guy is offering me a chance to live here, so I might as well roll the dice. Like, that's basically what I think a lot of people's calculation was. I'm gonna leave anyway. I can't afford it. So maybe this guy can lower it and give me another two years of life on my dream.

[B]

There are people that's powerful who just won't listen to a word you just said because they're so strongly, like, against him as. But the Logic of what you just said. Forget how he wants to do that and the policies we can.

[A]

Will it work?

[B]

Who knows for sure? And I don't think a lot of them work. But that idea, if you can't see how a normal person who's not fucking looking through Twitter all day at politics, which is most people, by the way, believe it or not, would not see that and go, yeah, that sounds all right to me. It doesn't make them dumb. It doesn't make. It's not how it is. People are going to vote based on the thing that, you know, most speaks to the basic thing in their life that. Like, that they're like, yeah, I could use some help on that.

[A]

Yeah. Literally. And they're not voting for Zara. They're just voting for their own dream.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, I want to be an artist in the city. I want to be a fashion designer. I want to do whatever. I want to be a comic. And this guy is giving me a chance to do it. I'm like, that's. That's powerful. And I think that's. He was the only person speaking of that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Cuomo was like, let's keep it the same and sleep. I was like, we got to get the mob out of the city. And everyone's like, well, that's not really affecting me as much. But, you know. Know there's. Everyone's got a good point still around.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Everyone's. You just don't see them. Everyone's got a point here. You know, maybe we join the Guardian Angels. Maybe that's our conversation.

[B]

That's what I'm saying. I feel like it be. That'd be. That's a good. Like, I should have Alessi make a documentary on that. I joined the Guardian Angels for a week.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Something. Wear the beret. Do like, the whole thing. Live stream it, you know? Yeah.

[A]

It be kind of nice. You know what I mean?

[B]

You kill all the rats down the sewers. You see how they hunt rats?

[A]

Not in the.

[B]

No, they. They bring out dogs.

[A]

Really.

[B]

And this was. This is like six, seven years old. There's a Vice doc.

[A]

Wasn't that Sleepwalk's idea? He was like, more cats. We're gonna release thousands of cats or something like that.

[B]

I wouldn't argue that.

[A]

But that shit low key works. There's a couple, like, islands, I think, in Europe that have, like, these massive, like, feral cat populations. They have no rats.

[B]

They see, that's pretty cool, right? I will say, though, watching that, like, this Vice video, people can pull it up. We can't play because it's copyrighted. But watching these pit bulls just take a two foot rat and just, just treat it like a little rag doll. You're like, hey, I'd run for the hills. I'd swim in the Hudson to Hoboken.

[A]

It's not a dory pod. Until he starts foaming at the mouth. That's when I know we're really in a groove. Once you start going. That's my favorite. I was watching back the footage from our pod that we did on the CIA. I was dying laughing because you were like, yeah, dude, they caught me in the waterboard.

[B]

That's what it's like. You're under a mask, you're like.

[A]

And then the pimpled.

[B]

Well, no, the pitbull is more like, you know, mouth open.

[A]

My apologies, I missed it.

[B]

You gotta get it right.

[A]

But yeah, dude, I, I'm kind of down with the cats. I think we just got to release just a legion of cats.

[B]

Do they have cats in Florida?

[A]

They got a handful.

[B]

They got a handful of rats in Florida.

[A]

I've never seen a rat.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

I'll tell you that much.

[B]

It's a little hot for them.

[A]

Yeah, we got some gators though. We got some good old gators, bro.

[B]

Those can swim. That's the thing that creeps me out. When you see like a rat like fucking it in the Hudson.

[A]

They can move to.

[B]

Oh yeah, yeah.

[A]

No, they're moving.

[B]

That's not normal.

[A]

Yeah, no, we just had gators. There were so many gators in Florida. They were just like crawling to like little. We had a dude in our neighborhood, Mark Nelson, and he would go down there and hunt the gators. And it was crazy because like I was a shotgun. No, he would just wrestle him and then tie him up and then send them to animal control. That's, that's some real Florida shit, right?

[B]

Some real Florida, man.

[A]

The craziest thing in my brain is like, I was a young kid, whenever they would call us, you know, the Nelson family, to go get the gators. And I was like, oh, this guy is like a trained professional. I, I grew up, I found out mark Nelson was 14. Like I was just 8. And I was like, wait, this is just another kid that was wrestling gators and they would go down there and, and patch him up.

[B]

You ever seen the video of the, of the old dude with like the beer belly with a cigarette hanging out of his mouth up to like his hips in the water and he's got an alligator in his hand ripping it open and there's a little dog barking in its mouth.

[A]

And then he opens it up far.

[B]

Enough and the dog like. And like runs on the land. He just throws the gator back.

[A]

That's life built different. That's life in Florida, dude. There's. There's one lake in my town called Lake Jessup where they dump all the gators that they find. And now it's just a feeding frenzy. It's like the most gator infested lake in the United States I'm pretty sure is this one lake. There's like a couple hundred thousand gators in there.

[B]

Aren't you close to Disney World? Aren't you from.

[A]

Not far.

[B]

Yeah, not far. Probably some of those gators there eat the people to go there. Yeah. Up.

[A]

Well, allegedly.

[B]

Allegedly. They pulled like a three year old out of a gator.

[A]

It happened. Once they got some money back, they tried to get him on the Disney plus thing, but it doesn't matter. Okay, I don't know if you remember this. They were like, well, technically, because you signed up for Disney plus, you waive your rights to be eaten by a gator. And everyone's like, well, that seems crazy. Did you hear about this? This is an actual thing on the Disney plus thing. It's like, I waive all rights to personal injury or whatever. And like the lawyers try to go through and be like, well, technically they did this and they tried to like withhold money from the. From the fam. They got it back, don't worry. But it's kind of crazy. That's how it goes, dude. The mouse. That's what they call him.

[B]

That's why we have New York. You get a good New York lawyer on your side to read that contract.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

They'll freak the out.

[A]

Yes, dude.

[B]

Like, look at line 7. 4 AB4.

[A]

Eaten by gators. Like, why is that even on Disney Plus?

[B]

Why is that on my iPhone?

[A]

Except.

[B]

Except the terms of iOS fucking 17, bro.

[A]

Disney+ is hilarious. I would do this bit lately, but, like, I'm trying to like, find the beats of it. But like, I was watching Disney plus with my little baby, trying to show him like all the cool shit and.

[B]

I can't believe you showed Disney to your baby.

[A]

I thought the old stuff. The old, the. The og.

[B]

You know, when they had the good old Song of the south in there.

[A]

Wait, what? Don't look that up. Not that. Not that one. Not that one. I misspoke. I meant Lion King. What did I say? But like, if you watch a Disney plus show now, like before you watch the old movies. They have a disclaimer. Have you seen this? See if you can pull it up. Because, like, it's hilarious. They have a Disney plus disclaimer before. Like, some of the movies where it's basically like, hey, back in the day when we made this movie, racism was fine. They literally were just like, sorry about this. There's some bad stuff in here. And we apologize for the sensitive themes. And they literally have a warning before it.

[B]

This program includes negative depictions and mistreatment of people or cultures. These stereotypes. I should. No, I should read this in character. Hold on. These stereotypes were wrong then, and they are wrong now. Rather than remove this content, we want to acknowledge its harmful impact, learn from it, and spark conversation to create a more inclusive future together. Now, Disney is committed to. Let me finish, Mark.

[A]

Yeah. We need the whole concept.

[B]

Committed to creating stories with inspirational and aspirational themes that reflect the rich diversity of the human experience around the globe. To learn more about how stories have impacted society, visit www.epsteindidnkill himself.com now, do.

[A]

You know what the problem with this is? Is that it doesn't tell you what the racist part was.

[B]

So you gotta figure it out. Where's Waldo?

[A]

For real, dude, it is just a racist scavenger hunt. So I'm watching the whole time. I'm like. And then. And then my wall wife's like, that's not the bad part. I was like, well, I thought it was bad Now I feel more racist watching the fucking show. I'm like, no, that was actually really. I'm like Snow White, the Seven Dwarves. What's that about? Oh, oh. Hardworking shore people. Sounds like Mexicans. I'm trying to figure out where the racist shit is. And the whole time I'm being more racist. I feel awful the entire time. It's bad. Genuinely bad. I'm like, oh, Pinocchio. That's anti Semitic. Right? We can all agree on that. What's the moral of that movie? Oh, liars have big noses. This is racism at its core. We need to stop this stuff being broadcast to our children. All right. I won't stand for it.

[B]

For real. Oh, my God.

[A]

It's an issue, right?

[B]

I'm surprised that's still a thing in 2025. They've been pulling back on, like, that.

[A]

They still run on the battles. On the real. On the real battles. The Jungle Book.

[B]

I actually knew that reference. Turns, too.

[A]

I'm glad someone did.

[B]

Oh, deep. Got it, too.

[A]

I'm have to hit you with the hands again, dude.

[B]

Yeah, the hands threw me off the punchline. I can't do that again. The punchline. Hands. I was like, wait, so it's coming and then he goes like this.

[A]

If you're ever unsure if the fingers come together, you laugh. All right, that's just Bang.

[B]

Yeah, but that. That's the opposite of what happened. His head went like that. That's why I took Paps. Going like this sounds like, oh, Road Dome in the back head.

[A]

Right, yeah, Okay. I can.

[B]

I can do that. But doing this, it made it look like it's coming back together.

[A]

I can see the confusion now. That makes a lot of sense.

[B]

Yeah. It's like the Other is a Bruger film. He lives. You think Epstein lived?

[A]

I really doubt it. I really doubt it. I really doubt it. I think. Yeah. I really doubt it. I don't know if even. I don't know if Ghis even lived.

[B]

Oh, you think that's.

[A]

I don't know, dude. I'm pretty. I'm pretty based. Might just be an actress the whole time.

[B]

You or your mom?

[A]

Both, Both. Both.

[B]

Does your mom. That's why I should ask, does your mom think Ghislaine died?

[A]

No, no, no, no, no. I think my mom's like, no, Ghislaine's in there and she's having a great time. She's hanging with the Theranos chick. Have you seen this?

[B]

She's in the same prison.

[A]

Same prison. The two of them are just hanging out, playing. Pat a cake's gotta be fucking having the best time.

[B]

She's a tweeter now.

[A]

Who?

[B]

Elizabeth Holmes.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

She's tweeting, like, life advice. Like Goggins.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yeah. Like, yeah. Can we pull up Elizabeth Holmes to that?

[A]

I would listen to that podcast while I run.

[B]

Yeah. So I'm here in prison. I'm improving my whole life. I heard she don't talk like that no more.

[A]

No, she doesn't. She was just doing a Steve Jobs.

[B]

Yeah, it's a bit like she was.

[A]

Doing, like, an impression.

[B]

Listen, I have to give her credit. Like, she stuck to the bit.

[A]

Oh, super committed.

[B]

Like, she was really committed. Yeah. She's private.

[A]

Damn.

[B]

Who nuked her?

[A]

Damn.

[B]

Throw her a follow.

[A]

Throw her the follow. Deep. Dude, I love the location we're looking for, G. Yes. How good is the location?

[B]

Dude, but you got to come to this studio.

[A]

Go pop back. It literally is like Brian Federal Prison Camp. You're like, all right.

[B]

Oh, wait, it actually says that? Yeah.

[A]

That's hilarious. Where's the account based? No.

[B]

Oh, there's no basis of the account.

[A]

Have you been seeing that? Obviously the. The. All these Twitter accounts that are now.

[B]

Based around all of them, though, because they're Photoshop and everything.

[A]

Yeah, that's true. That's true.

[B]

And then you click and you're like.

[A]

Oh, but there are some of them. Like, to me, I never even. I never even considered that. That, like, there are people around the globe that are, like, arbitrage in the US Dollar, outraging the American public, and then getting paid off of it and living like kings and, like, you know.

[B]

You never thought of this. Don't know.

[A]

I didn't realize that this was their whole game. I was like, how many of these. There's probably a couple accounts. You know what I mean? But, like, how many guys are in Calcutta that know American politics well enough that can outrage, like, liberals and Republicans that. Well, I mean, turns out all of.

[B]

2 billion people over there, you can find a hundred.

[A]

I guess I just did. I'm like, is this organized? Is it, like, a group of people all working together? Is it one kingpin that has this throng of, like. Like a harem of, like, these Indian dudes writing this? I don't know.

[B]

Well, it's not Tyler Olivera, I'll tell you that. Who's that running that form?

[A]

Who's that dude?

[B]

Oh, you don't know Tyler. I just had it. I just recorded with him. He's a big YouTuber. He's been around for years. You've seen him. But he does documentaries around the world, and he's at war with the nation of India right now.

[A]

Wait, what?

[B]

He's at war? So.

[A]

Oh, is this the dung guy?

[B]

Yes. Oh, yes. He was just. He was letting it dung out.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Letting the shit fly.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, just exactly. I kept, you know, trying to help out India a little bit. No, you're actually wrong. I'm like, they don't. They don't always, like.

[A]

No, all of them. Okay, well, the truth might be in the middle somewhere. I said.

[B]

I'm, like, looking at deep, like, all right, let's.

[A]

Let's.

[B]

I get it. I get. They doxed his family. There were death threats all for him. Like, if you watch the documentary that he did, which for context, for people who obviously haven't seen that there. There is a festival that happens in a remote part of India. I don't remember the name of the province. Don't get me to try to pronounce it, but, you know, like, a thousand people live there, and they believe that I'M dead serious. They believe that, like, their God emanated from cowshit. True story. And so six months out of the year, they collect cow in their backyard. And then they all take the cow into town. And all the men, not the women. The women are not allowed to be a part of this. But the men swim through it and throw it at each other and. And sometimes probably take some shrapnel and eat it to celebrate, you know, like, their Christmas or.

[A]

Nothing wrong with it. Nothing wrong.

[B]

All Tyler did was report the facts and make it clear it was in this province. And he went in there with a hazmat suit, which felt the waist because he left the whole face open and the feet open.

[A]

I'm like, yeah, all right.

[B]

So you. Your legs didn't get it, but your mouth did.

[A]

You're giving him a target.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because if you see someone fully covered up, then you're like, well, we gotta hit that part.

[B]

That's what I'm saying. So he came out of this scathe and went to do this documentary. And, I mean, you want to talk about Indian spam calls on your phone?

[A]

Crazy.

[B]

Getting one every, like, three seconds that you saw.

[A]

What?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Really?

[B]

He had to, like, shut down his phone, I think. I don't know. Ask him. But, like, then his fan, they outed his family's, like, information and stuff, so he got pissed.

[A]

Damn.

[B]

I mean, I get it. Like, you know, he's pissed.

[A]

Yeah, he's pissed. They're shitty. Yeah. It's a whole. It's a whole debacle, dude. I get it. But look, I mean, on the one hand, you know, cultures are different. People like to.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

People like to express their religion in any way that they. They'd like. You know, as long as you're not hurting other people, I got nothing wrong with that.

[B]

I'm with you.

[A]

On the other hand, it's kind of. Kind of gross.

[B]

It's not for me. I would not make a documentary on that. That's just me. Yeah.

[A]

You know, But I mean, did he malign them? That he showed in, like, an improper way?

[B]

Not in the documentary. There was some parts where you're gonna make a joke, of course. Like, he's. So. It's fine. But he did it, like, even when he was standing next to a guy in his backyard while the guy ate the cow, like, he kept a straight face, and he was trying to explain it and just be like, look, I think this is kind of gross, but this is what they do.

[A]

Look, we eat dead animals. You Know, how different are we, really? At the end of the day, you eat a dead cow. They're eating the.

[B]

Yeah, but it's sanitized. It's cooked on a grill, you know?

[A]

Is that how they did. Is that how they did the cow?

[B]

No, they don't cook it. They just take the.

[A]

And it's like ceviche.

[B]

They pack it in.

[A]

That's fine.

[B]

In.

[A]

I eat Poke. I eat raw fish all the time. Poke, you know, is Poke. You've never heard of Poke?

[B]

No.

[A]

What part of Jersey are we? Dude, what the hell? Don't look at me like that.

[B]

He's not good with Asian food.

[A]

That's crazy food.

[B]

We'll get better at that. Don't worry.

[A]

Can you pull up an image of Poke?

[B]

I once went to a Chinese restaurant and asked where the spicy tuna rolls were.

[A]

All right, that's what you're dealing with. Different Asian. But I can see where your head's at. I can see that there's effort there, a little. You know what I mean?

[B]

I was really upset. I was like. I was looking forward to this all day.

[A]

A Poke bowl is quite literally just.

[B]

Oh, is this like an Akai bowl?

[A]

Who's a Kai? Come on, bro. I mean, it's really remarkable because sometimes you come on this program and you just say, the craziest I've ever heard of my life. A Kai volunteer. How do you know every episode of every podcast you've ever done with every guest and every word they've ever said, and no one ever brought up Poke.

[B]

Or ASAI store over there? When you are reading that sign in American and it says a C, a I, what does that look like?

[A]

Acai. It's literally getting the S from. It's. It's. Where are you getting the E from? Soft C. How did you even know what he was saying? How do you speak Dorise, bro? That's wild.

[B]

Something he would say, like, even when he was reading the Napoleon letter before, he said janat. And I'm like, it's Janelle.

[A]

He just doesn't understand how, you know, these are. He's Ron Burgundy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Is. Is aai. What is that an acronym? Is that a name? Put him up in front of Congress immediately, dude. So the name Akai, what does that mean to you? Like, acai? He's like, whatever. Yeah. Epstein Dangerous Texas. To me, it's fine. Whatever you want to know. I mean, dude, well, this is gonna be.

[B]

What's this, Pokemon Ball?

[A]

No, no, this. We're just gonna do different Asian words that Julian has To try to pronounce. This is gonna be awesome. I can't wait.

[B]

All right, hit me.

[A]

See what we can do. All right, let's get a little quiz. Let's get some very common Asian words that people know. Japanese, Korean, Chinese.

[B]

Wonton. Soup. I can do that one.

[A]

Wonton. That's pretty good, right? Yeah. That's a good pronunciation. I like that. What else you got? Oh, man. I See. I can't say it because it's going to give it away.

[B]

Miso Soup.

[A]

Soup. That's miso.

[B]

That one. Good.

[A]

That's good. That's very nice. Very phonetic.

[B]

I like that. What's the one? Sweet and sour chicken.

[A]

Yeah, we know that. What about the general? You know, the general?

[B]

Like General Zoe's general.

[A]

Sos.

[B]

Tzo.

[A]

Tizo.

[B]

I always thought it was son to zoo.

[A]

Okay. Yes.

[B]

Sopranos on that one.

[A]

Yeah. The Art of War.

[B]

Son Ta Zoo. Read a book. Yeah.

[A]

Sun to Zoom, too.

[B]

Oh, what Asian food is this?

[A]

Oh, there we go. Showtime.

[B]

Okay. All right.

[A]

This is kind of cute.

[B]

This is. This isn't copyrighted, is it? I guess we're gonna find out which Japanese food is this.

[A]

Countdown.

[B]

Just see a. It's a Rubik's Cube.

[A]

Oh, it fills it in block by block. Let's go, dude.

[B]

So I gotta wait for it to fill in before I can guess?

[A]

No, it's just pixelated. Like their penises and pull. That's all it is.

[B]

Oh, it's anime for food. All right, it's looking like tuna.

[A]

Well, nope.

[B]

But caprizi.

[A]

What the whoppy answer is that?

[B]

Wait, that's a spicy tuna roll. All right, let's answer.

[A]

Looks like salmon to me. But sushi.

[B]

I know that ramen noodles is an Asian.

[A]

What do you think you Italians try to claim everything. Hey, you know, they got it from Marco Polo. He went from over there. He brought spaghetti, brought sauce.

[B]

All right, which type? Can we, like, fast forward the pixelation? This is, like, a lot.

[A]

Patience is a virtue.

[B]

Okay, just resume.

[A]

All right.

[B]

It's pixelating, people. I feel like I need jeopardy music here.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Like, just show me the picture and then ask me a, B, C, or D. I can't see it. It looks like pizza so far. It's some kind of suit soup.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

All right. Shrimp. Jerk chicken. Shrimp.

[A]

Oh, is this.

[B]

Wait, they're leaving four pixels out there. I don't like that. All right, I'm gonna guess that's Tom Yum Kung.

[A]

Tom Yum. Very good, Tom. Yeah, dude.

[B]

Yeah. Tom Yum.

[A]

I take back everything I said. I'M sorry, I apologize.

[B]

I know my.

[A]

I didn't know you were so cultured when it comes to Korean food.

[B]

Is this. I can't even point the Korea.

[A]

Kimchi. All right, let me go with kimchi. Final answer.

[B]

Kimchi's Korean.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Pickled cabbage they buried underground.

[B]

Why do I give the credit to the Chinese on everything?

[A]

Because you're racist. Yeah. Toyota is made by China. Whatever. You know, there's. You know, those guys over there.

[B]

All right, let's see. That is looking like slop right now.

[A]

Okay, see, and you can't say that that's racist.

[B]

Is that a croissant?

[A]

No, that's kimchi.

[B]

All right, I'm gonna. All right, it's kimchi.

[A]

Yeah. So we're just gonna move off this board.

[B]

Tech baki. That's Greek.

[A]

This guy from Street Fighter. What the hell? I played as that guy. I remember him. Yeah.

[B]

Don't take me to an Asian restaurant.

[A]

I mean, all the time, dude, I went to. I went to a Chinese restaurant, they gave me a paper straw and I was like, what?

[B]

Not even plastic?

[A]

Not plastic. And they're like, no, of course. You know, we gotta take care of the animals.

[B]

Paper straw. Doesn't it just disintegrate?

[A]

It's the worst thing ever. And I was like, oh, they want to take care of the turtles or whatever. They're saving the turtles.

[B]

The turtles are fucking choking on, like, on SOP in their throat.

[A]

Yeah. And then get this, I look at the menu. Turtle soup. I was like, guys, what are we really doing here? Right? I feel like we're kind of playing both sides, right? Yeah.

[B]

You could do a show like going into food places to virtue signal and then. Wrong.

[A]

Well, you've seen the guy that goes to Chinese restaurants and speaks people perfect Mandarin. This is my favorite.

[B]

Oh, I love this guy.

[A]

This is like my dream. If I could speak every language and he's not Chinese, not Chinese, and he blows their minds. He's just a white dude that like learned every. He's a polyglot. Just knows a bunch of languages. Polyglot.

[B]

Polyglot. I like that term.

[A]

Someone that speaks a bunch of different languages. I think it's like three plus. Makes you a polyglot.

[B]

I speak a lot of languages.

[A]

Body language, you know what I'm saying? Ms. Gagon beat you to it. All right, this guy's all time. He pulls up and. And.

[B]

All right, this might be copyrighted. So if we. If you don't see this, it's cuz it's copyrighted. But let's see it. Thief. Do it without the volume, thief. And we'll just kind of. Oh no, you need the volume, cuz he's talking Chinese.

[A]

Do it. No volume. But you just interpret what they're saying with a perfect accent. Go ahead. Right, you don't want me doing that.

[B]

This channel will get banned before the episode's over. Oh.

[A]

Hey guys, what's going on? It's Xiaomi and today we are at.

[B]

Xiaoman here.

[A]

Just right here. Yeah.

[B]

Okay, thank you.

[A]

Appreciate that.

[B]

The top channel buffet.

[A]

What's, what's, what's good? What do you recommend? She's like this one, this one, this dumb, this dumb white boy. Let me explain what's going on. Fish, fish dumpling. Hit her with it.

[B]

Oh, this one, she go, oh, I didn't know you would like that. We're like, oh, we can get him. We got an American undercover.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like Morse code back to Beijing. Oh, he's nice with it.

[A]

Okay, I got it all time. And everyone, the restaurant's like skirt. That's not the sound of them driving. That's literally them like whoa. It's crazy. And then he just. This little white boys got motion. They didn't even see it coming.

[B]

It's awesome.

[A]

That's my dream. If I could speak every language. It's like that.

[B]

Well, we're going to be able to do that within 50 years.

[A]

Yeah, if I get chipped up and. But my mom told me it's the mark of the day.

[B]

Yeah, when did your mom tell you about Neuralink? Like 99.

[A]

Well, she was like, they're going to put stuff in you so you can do transactions. That's the only way you'll be able.

[B]

To pay for stuff.

[A]

I was like, we'll see.

[B]

Oh, with a chip in your brain, you pay for stuff going like that.

[A]

She didn't know it be in your brain, but yeah, she thought might be rectal. Who knows really? But she was telling me, she was like, yeah, they're going to chip.

[B]

She was telling you at like age 10 you're going to get a rectal thermometer.

[A]

Exactly, exactly. She's telling me about now. I'm like, she told me about Crowley. She told me about all these guys.

[B]

Oh, Aleister Crowley. You did, you did some content on him. I did not watch that one.

[A]

You gotta peep, dude.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

Well I did.

[B]

I'll fill in the good people about Aleister Crowley.

[A]

I mean all time, all time crazy guy. Well, that's the thing. I was saying Crowley the whole time and it's actually Crowley. I pulled a Julian. Son of a. Yeah, I know, right? Yeah, you had it right. Alistair Crowley. But he's early 1900s, mystic, like sex magic, occultist that kind of like paved the way for just like rock and roll, occultism and English dude, like went all around the world, had a place in Greenwich Village. Yeah. And his ashes are actually buried in Jersey, in Hampton. Jersey. We don't claim him now. He's one of yours dude. But yeah, I mean, kind of wild stuff. If you. Have you seen the overlap with him and some of the alien shit?

[B]

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[A]

Close your eyes. Exhale. Feel your body relax and let go of whatever you're carrying today. Well, I'm letting go of the worry that I wouldn't get my new contacts in time for this class. I got them delivered free from 1-800-contacts. Oh my gosh, they're so fast. And breathe. Oh, sorry.

[B]

I almost couldn't breathe when I saw the discount they gave me on my first order.

[A]

Oh, sorry. Namaste.

[B]

Visit 1-800-contacts Calm today to save on your first order.

[A]

1-800-Contacts.

[B]

Yes, but refresh, people.

[A]

This is the part that, to me, that's most interesting. So he gets married to a woman. They go to Egypt. They're living in Cairo for like their honeymoon for like a couple weeks. And while they're there, his whole thing was like, basically he was fascinated with like occultism and would just kind of like pulled in, pull in all sorts of stuff from different religions. He was like reading the Quran, he was pulling some like Islamic mysticism, he was reading like Kabbalah, like Jewish mysticism, bringing in like some Christian stuff and kind of creating his own sort of philosophical ideal as to like, you know, how people should be. This is how he created oto. And this is basically the supreme law of human beings is that basically, do as thou wilt, shall be the whole of the law. This is like his thing, do as.

[B]

Thou wilt, shall be the whole of the law.

[A]

So whatever you will is ultimately what is the supreme moral force that undergirds all of humanity. Whatever it is that you want. And for Crowley, that was Crowley. That was some opium, some alcohol, and some sex, right? That was his. And so he's, like, doing all these rituals to basically communicate with these beings. So he goes to Cairo with his wife, and she is communicating with this entity that is effectively like the messenger of Horus. And this entity is named Awas or Iwas and is basically communicating this book of law to her. And he transcribes it through his wife, writes it all down while she's, like, fixated in this trance. And then that becomes kind of like his Bible and away. And there's a, like, a Egyptian steli that's, like, in the museum there that, like, has a bunch of, like, the revelations. He calls it, like, the steli of Revelation. The. The being that he's talking to through his wife is like, hey, go to the museum. Steal it. Reclaim it as yours. Translate this book to all the languages of the world. And he doesn't do all that, but he gets it and, you know, starts transcribing it, giving it to a bunch of different, like, mystics and occultists at the time. And his life is just insane. He, like, takes this. He's now doing sex magic all over the world. He's, like, meeting with different people. He creates, like, the Abbey of Thelma, which is.

[B]

Abbey of Thelma.

[A]

This is, like his, like, temple that he creates in Sicily. Yeah. No.

[B]

Where in Sicily?

[A]

Oh, I don't even know.

[B]

Not Palermo.

[A]

I don't know specifically where you can find it. The Abbey of Thelma is in. Where are we at? Where are we at?

[B]

Oh, it's in. I just said it. It's in Cefalu. No way.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's one of my favorite spots in Sicily.

[A]

Well, you can go see it. I'm pretty sure it's still there.

[B]

Well, I must have passed it.

[A]

He ended up. He ended up getting kicked out by Mussolini. Even Mussolini.

[B]

That's the hostile. I stayed in. There's the air conditioner in the window.

[A]

Well, he got booted by. He got booted by Mussolini.

[B]

He was like, that's a. That's a bright spot. Nice job, Benito. Right? You know, blind. Blind squirrel nut. Yeah.

[A]

The good with the bad, you know, so he basically just moving around the world. Not only is he, like, this famous occultist that's doing sex magic and, like, calling himself the Beast, like, he loved the infamy that went with his. People would call him, like, you know, people call him the wickedest man in the world, and he's like, yes, I Am. I am the beast. I am.

[B]

Like that.

[A]

He loved it. He, like, he was like a showman. He. And he was. At certain points he was doing like these rituals. Like, he would do like these gnostic masses that like, were like, basically inversions of like Catholic masses where, like, they would be like sex magic. They would do like their own communion type thing. And he like invited people of the press to go to some of these different rituals and he would like spike their drinks with peyote and people would leave it being like. That was pretty good. Like the, the journalists were like. That was a cool kind of. Yeah, I really enjoyed myself. And he's also like a. Like a really technical mountaineer. Like he's climbing peaks in, like, Nepal.

[B]

Oh, an actual mountaineer.

[A]

Yes. He's like, like a fantastic climber that's doing like opium and like climbing mountains and. And then he's like flying around banging different women, doing sex magic.

[B]

And sex magic is a hell of a term.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, it's exactly what you think it is. It's basically like doing sexual rituals with the intent of communicating with demons or beings, as he calls them.

[B]

Tantric sex is a spiritual meditative practice that uses sexual energy to foster a deep mindful connection between partners, often involving practices like breath work, prolonged eye contact and slow, deliberate touch, unlike traditionals. Why are you giving me that? I don't know, Thief.

[A]

Because it's not giving you, like the culture cultists. Well, right, yeah.

[B]

Occult, Tantric.

[A]

Tantric sex, I think comes from the Hindu philosophy, so that's more grounded and like. Yeah, this sounds meditation. And you need sex magic with. With a. With a ck at the end and.

[B]

CK at the end.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Magic.

[A]

Yes. And this is sexual energy and ritual to manifest desire, achieve spiritual transformation and attain higher consciousness.

[B]

That also. They try to make that sound good.

[A]

Good. Well, depending who you ask, maybe it is.

[B]

But Aleister Crowley was doing it.

[A]

Yeah. Oh, yeah. And again, if.

[B]

If wasn't he using it to like, worship Satan?

[A]

He wouldn't call it Satan. He would. He would say, I'm speaking to beings, a higher consciousness. I'm trying to tap in to this sort of divine energy.

[B]

What do you think motivated that guy?

[A]

I think infamy. I think like a desire for knowledge. I'm pretty sure he grew up Christian for knowledge. Like he, like, again, it's like, I think what draws a lot of people into the occult is like, I'm going to understand the TR. Teachings of the universe. Like, I'm going to understand why we're actually here. All These religions are kind of explaining in their own little ways, but he gets to be a rock and roll star where he gets to do drugs, bang chicks, and then potentially communicate with these entities. Is he talking to him or not? I don't know. He ends up communicating not only with awas when he's in Cairo, this messenger of Horus, he's also talking to a deity he calls Lamb. L. A. M. Now, Lamb. He paints a picture of what Lamb looks like. And this is like 40 years before Roswell. This is like 1920s or something like that. Maybe even, like in the teens, he.

[B]

Had the third eye going, that one.

[A]

On the top left.

[B]

Yep. That's what Beck Lever brought up.

[A]

And that is who Crowley was talking to, by his own accounts. Now it looks like a gray. Yeah, a little bit.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And yeah, he's, like, basically getting this knowledge from them and downloading it all, transcribing it, and then, yeah, just living his life. Getting, like, kicked out of different places. He's, like, getting lambasted by the end of his life by the media. People say that he was a foreign agent for the British, that he was working as a spy. This is alleged. Again, I'm not.

[B]

I've heard this.

[A]

I'm not going to say that this is actually factual, but it is alleged that, like, he was basically writing pro German propaganda, but it was so absurd and, like, borderline satirical that people suspect that he was trying to paint the Germans as, like, incompetent and as stupid, and then propagating it to an American audience in a British audience. So they're reading the stuff, being like, oh, the Germans are idiots. These guys have no idea what they're doing. Written by Crowley. And another weird thing, he ends up, when he leaves London, at one point of going to New York, he rides on a boat. The boat is named the RMS Lusitania. Have you heard of this boat before?

[B]

Oh, the loose. The sinker.

[A]

The sinker. This is the. One of the reasons why, you could say one of the reasons why the United States gets involved in World War I.

[B]

Yes, that's right.

[A]

After this, like, British passenger ship goes down. 128Americans die. America. Two years later, Wilson's like, all right, let's get into the war. So this is all contributing because allegedly, again, big allegedly, Crowley told the Germans, hey, you guys should sink the Lusitania. It'll keep America out of the war. They'll see that you guys aren't around. They won't want any part of this. America is very isolationist at this Point they don't want to be a part. And well, the idea is that Crowley did this intentionally to sabotage the Germans and told them this bad idea at the behest of British Intelligence. Like, yes, give America a reason to join. So, yeah, Crowley's a.

[B]

He's spooky.

[A]

I mean, there's like a million other things. A bunch of stuff I'm probably forgetting. Again, I'm not an expert. I did one episode on the guy.

[B]

Wasn't you. You sound like an expert. Like you spit it, it'll be like an hour straight. And at the end you're like. Especially you watch that on like 1.5 speed. Jose is like hitting like four different camera angles. I could see up your nostril from one of them. But wasn't there also a whole thing? Maybe I'm mixing him up with someone else. Where Crowley or Crowley was either the inspiration for or in some way cross paths with L. Ron Hubbard.

[A]

So Jack Parsons was Jack Parsons. He was a student of L. Ron, hubby Hubbard that was also connected to the NASA program. And so this was later, I mean, Parsons NASA program.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Parsons was like one of the, like you could say top, like astrophysicists that was working at NASA and was also like an occultist that was connected to L. Ron Hubbard. Fascinating guy. He's got all sorts.

[B]

Can we pull him up?

[A]

Thief.

[B]

Yeah, Jack, let's go to Ciapedia. Like the first one there. Jack Parsons, 1914-1952, was an American rocket engineer, chemist and Thelemite occultist.

[A]

So yeah, thelamite occultist is. Thelema is Crowley's thing.

[B]

Right.

[A]

He's a student of Crowley, I guess.

[B]

You could say as well. I remember this from episode 220 with Beck. He was having me read this whole thing, but I just can't remember the details. Parsons was one of the principal founders of both the Jet Propulsion Laboratory and Aerojet. He invented the first rocket engine to use a castable composite rocket propellant and pioneered the advancement of both liquid fuel and solid fuel rockets. He was raised in California and began amateur rocket experiments with school friend Edward Foreman. In 1928, he was admitted to Stanford, but left before graduating due to financial hardship during the Great Depression. In 1934, Parsons, Foreman and Frank Molina formed the Caltech affiliated Guggenheim Aeronautical Laboratory Rocket Research Group was support by Galkit chairman Theodore Von Karman.

[A]

He's legit. And then at 39, he converts the Thelma. This is the movement founded by Crowley.

[B]

Let's hit that Thelma.

[A]

Let's.

[B]

Let's Get a. Let's get it. So it's founded by Crowley, Western esoteric and occult, social or spiritual philosophy, and a new religious movement founded in the early 1900s by Aleister Crowley, an English writer, mystic, occultist and ceremonial magician. Central to Thelma is the concept of discovering and following one's true will, a divine and individual purpose that transcends ordinary desire. His system begins with the Book of Law, a text he maintained was dictated by him by a non corporeal entity named Iwas, which is what you're referring to. This work outlines key principles, including the axioms, do without. Wit shall be the whole of the law and love is the law. Love under will, emphasizing personal freedom and pursuit of one's true path.

[A]

See, they.

[B]

They dress it up. It sounds kind of cool, right?

[A]

Well, that's the thing. No one thinks they're doing anything wrong. You know, he looks like a fact sparrow. Yeah, well, you know, this is what AWA said for him to wear.

[B]

So, yeah, today he'd be labeled a racist.

[A]

I mean, I think it was kind of racist back then. I think even back then, the.

[B]

Really?

[A]

This guy's kind of racist? Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

All right. King Tut Jesus.

[A]

But yeah, wild dude that was like, lived an insane life. And then around the same time, but never really crossing paths was Edgar Casey.

[B]

I don't know about him.

[A]

Edgar Casey, the sleeping prophet. Prophet. This is a dude that was a prophet? Yes. And they were operating the same exact time in the early 1900s. And Casey's whole thing was that he was like, like a devout Christian that loved Jesus. Jesus was like the divine, you know, man, you know, God incarnate. And, like, hated this gift that he had according to his own accounts. And basically he would go to sleep and enter these trances where he was able to make these crazy predictions. This was like his whole thing, no.

[B]

Strafucking damas type shit.

[A]

And yeah, he would have these predictions that, you know, some of them, I mean, some of them are interesting and many of them people believe are like retrofitted to kind of justify what he was kind of saying in vague terms.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So, like, for example, he says, again, this is happening before he dies in 45. And he's doing these readings based from like 1900 to 1945, like up until the day of his death. And his whole idea is like, oh, I'm helping people. So he's doing a ton of, like, private readings for people, helping them with their life, giving them guidance and advice that he's. What he thinks is basically a gift From God. And he's also making other predictions about the world. One of the predictions, he says in, like, 1968, Atlantis will rise again. That Atlantis is like a real place, but also like a moral philosophy is.

[B]

Written by 100 years after they were saying the south would rise again.

[A]

Exactly. Atlantis will rise again, baby. Come on. Yeehaw. Get your tribes. Come on, boys.

[B]

MLK took one.

[A]

He was basically like, 1968, it's going to be off the coast of the Bahamas.

[B]

Now that could make sense.

[A]

Now, in 1968, what is discovered off the coast of the Bahamas, something called the Bimini Road. Now, the Bimini Road, as you know, probably from Graham Hancock, is like this weird rock formation under the water that looks like a road.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Now, geologists will just be like, no, this is a natural rock formation that was occurring because of the way the water was going through this channel. And there's nothing more to it. But it happened in the same year that Casey had predicted, basically saying like.

[B]

Hey, here's the thing, Mark, can we Google something real fast? Edward. Edward Casey, Net worth. This is how I test my clairvoyance. Because if you could predict the future and you're like, really good at it, you would invest in. You'd be. You'd make Nancy Pelosi look like a loser in the stock market. You'd be worth 40 billion. You would have called. You would have called Apple when it.

[A]

Was in a garage double down on Standard Oil.

[B]

Yeah. So if he's not worth like five bands, and by bands, I mean like, Billy.

[A]

You know, I don't think he died very wealthy. He had like a library and stuff. But again, he's not a library. He's not saying, I mean, which is like, valued at a lot of money. But he's not saying, like, oh, I'm. I can predict the future. His whole thing was like, I go into these trances and I get information. What I get is what I get. It's from God. But he's almost like the anti Crowley, where he's like, I'm going to do this as a service to people. I want to help people.

[B]

So he's an anti Crowley in a way.

[A]

I don't know if people have made this connection. This is just my.

[B]

Wasn't Crowley trying to lie, though, and saying, like, oh, I'm trying to help people doing this?

[A]

Well, yeah, of course everyone thinks they're helping, but, like, in terms of the function of how they were sort of doing it, like, Crowley's like, like, do whatever you want, whatever you Will is the way things should be. Whoever go to these masses, try to, you know, open up portals to talk to whatever beings you want. And this guy's like, reluctantly, like, I don't want to do this. I just want to, you know, live my life. But unfortunately, I have this gift where I'm able to talk to angels. This is all happening at the same time. These guys never cross paths. I always find that very interesting.

[B]

That is interesting.

[A]

I'm trying to think other things. He says, like, Russia is going to be, like, the key to preserving world peace. That's.

[B]

How's that working out?

[A]

Well, they have the keys. Let's see what they do. Again, people have gone through his teachings and been like. Or gone through his predictions have been like, this is what he's actually meaning. He says, like, China will become like, the new spiritual center of the world. Which, again, he's making all these predictions, like the 1920s, 30s. I'm trying to think of other, other significant ones. Those are the ones that stick out of my head, but pretty wild.

[B]

You said that on. On. On Crowley, though. He was, like, propagandizing in Germany.

[A]

Allegedly.

[B]

Allegedly. Which she definitely was. But it's interesting because he's a guy who's like, into the occult.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then we know that there's a whole rabbit hole of the actual Nazis senior Nazi party being extremely into the occult.

[A]

Heinrich Himmler, specifically.

[B]

Was that okay? What. What. Why was Himmler, like, the most into it?

[A]

He was just like a. Like an actual occult ideologue. People claim that, like, Hitler was. Was based off people I've talked to. It doesn't seem like he was, like, super down and. But especially by the end, you got sources. There is a guy, Eric Curlander is like the preeminent source on this that wrote a whole book based on, like, Hitler and the supernatural or like the Third Reich in the supernatural.

[B]

I thought you were saying, like. Yeah, I talked to his brother. That's how that was sounding. Not like.

[A]

No, Jeff, Hitler was a nephew that knew everything. And he. No, he's basically like, dude, Hitler was like, a little bit into it. Like, you would read some stuff kind of like if you're trying to understand, like, Aryan Nazi philosophy, it's sort of steeped in, like, pseudo intellectual, like, race philosophy where it's like, you know, the supreme master race is like the white Aryan, but, like the Japanese. They're the Aryans of Asia.

[B]

Yeah. They always made it fit.

[A]

Yeah. And then they're like, but what about the Russians? They're blonde hair, blue Eyes. They're like. No, no, they're not actually from the. The regions that, you know, the first man came from in Scandinavia. And so there's like all this, like, Norse mythology and shit. So it seems like Hitler had, like, a casual interest as a young guy. Like, he was reading, like, different. Like he was reading this journal called, like, Osterra. Osterra, I think, is what it was called. And it's like Oestra. And it was basically like this sort of like, early theosophic, like, occult journal that would kind of like blend, like racial ideas, like occult things. And some people suggest that he was reading it from a young age, but it doesn't seem like anything later on would support this. Ostara.

[B]

Ostara or Ostara. I'm not even gonna try to say that it's long. Whatever was a German nationalist magazine founded in 1905 by the ariphosis occultists Jorglan's von Liebensfels in Vienna, Austria, and in which he published anti Semitic and Volkish theories. Lance de Right, I guess. And check via Twitter. Now, Lance derived the name of the publication from the reconstructed old High German goddess named Osara. Lance claimed that the Ostrogoths and the nation of Austria were Martynomically named after this goddess. In the study of Lanz von Lebensfels, the Australian psychologist Wilfred Dimes states that the most likely. That most likely, this is even greater nonsense. According to von Leben Fels, the magazine had a peak circulation of 100,000 and appeared in series. The first series included anywhere from 89 to 100 issues between 1905 and 1917. The second series has had only one issue and the third series issued 20 times. Adolf Hitler was reportedly one of the publications readers in his late. Damn it. There it is in his late teens. And there is speculation that it served as a catalyst for his anti Semitism and that art school not letting him in.

[A]

Also that they could have.

[B]

They could have saved the world. A big pray if he was out there fucking painting Hallmark cars cards instead. Yeah, just like whipping that out.

[A]

Exactly. So he was like reading this allegedly as a young teen or like a late teen, like into his 20s, and he was like, casually interested, but he ended up getting pissed and like rounding up a lot of like, the mystics in Nazi Germany because he was like, this whole thing is. But Himmler was down and at certain points, like Himmler was forming these like, historical societies. The Auburn, the Auberfeld. I forget exactly. I forget exactly what the term was, but basically it was a German term. For like rediscovering the Germans true history. And he sent these people out to go find like the honor. The honor. Alb.

[B]

I don't know. I am going to try to fucking on an airbender.

[A]

Thank you, Greek. Thank you, Jesus. Come on, don't leave me hanging, baby.

[B]

He's got to figure it out. He knows German too.

[A]

The on and their bay was basically like. This was an organization that was created out of. Yes, literally out of Himmler's mind to go out and like find history that supported like racist, mystical, occult Nazi ideals. Which is like Thor's hammer might be real. Let's go get it.

[B]

And they found a way to make that like white people.

[A]

And they tried. Yeah, well, they were like, this is like, you know the Norse. This is where our people are from. This is where the Aryans are really from. Even though they're like Indo Aryan comes from like Persia, India. But forget all that history. We need to find the true history of the Aryans, which is Norse. And this Norse God was actually real and potentially the Thor's hammers out there. And so he's like writing these letters to people being like, hey, go try to find this hammer. They never found it. But he ended up founding a place called Weavelsburg Castle. This was like a secret meeting place for the ss and it was adorned with all of these like mystical artifacts that he would find, like old Norse runes and like a chalice and like they were trying to find all this shit.

[B]

Weevilsberg. Yeah, there it is. Renaissance Castle. Located in the village of Weavelsburg, which is the district of the town of Burren, Westphalia and the Lakers Paderborn in the northeast of North Ry. Westphalia, Germany.

[A]

Yeah, and find the Nazi part. This is the one you want. Go to Nazi era.

[B]

On the left down. Nazi era. Okay. In 1932, the local head of the district authority ordered about 70 members of the Free Willinger Arbande fad, that's what's called voluntary labor service, to be housed in the Weevilsburg. They were unemployed and supported by the state of not Stan Saban.

[A]

So if you go to the very bottom paragraph, crisis workers. There's speculation that it was Carl Wilgut who persuaded Himmler to use the castle not only as a school, but as a cult site. And yeah, it basically was like the idea was, hey, we're gonna turn this like a secret society of like our top SS guys to use the occult to.

[B]

You know, I'm also. I. And now I'm getting fuzzy to make sure I. I don't mix it up. But at the end of the war when Hitler was in the bunker and everyone was scrambling and then there was like a crisis of leadership in the last days with the Nazi party, even before he died, wasn't it Himmler who was the one who was first trying to break with him and, like, make some deal, oh, maybe, I don't know, with the Allies or whatever.

[A]

Oh, you're thinking of Rudolph Hess.

[B]

No, no, no, no. Hess was captured in Britain back in, like 41.

[A]

There's an occult tie in with Hess too. Well, what's the reason, if you can look this up? Allegedly one of the main reasons that Hess flew to Britain to go talk to Churchill and like the top brass of the Allies was because he talked with his astrologer. And his astrologer was like, you can save the German people. You can stop this war. You can be like, yeah, you can be like the guy that saves the day if you go over there and talk to him. And he ends up getting captured in, like, Scotland, I think, and then send us to prison and I think sent us.

[B]

Yeah, he was, he was in, in prison during the whole.

[A]

He like crash lands there.

[B]

He crash lands. He's like, I'm here to help. And they're like, no, bet you're going to prison.

[A]

And apparently Hitler found out that the astrologer was one of the people that advised him. And Hitler was like, done with all these guys. Get the astrologers, like all these mystical woo woo. People literally, like, is like, sends them all to prison and gets them out of here. But then a lot of them get bailed out of these camps and like concentration centers and shit, because they were trying to use psychics to find American boats, like military positions.

[B]

How'd that work out?

[A]

Not great, not well. But they apparently, if you look at the Pendulum Institute.

[B]

The Pendulum Institute.

[A]

I can't, I. This might be British, but I think the Nazis were doing this as a response to the British, that they were basically using remote viewers. The Pendulum Institute was created by the British to use remote viewers to find U boats, like German U boats. And then the Germans were like, well, if they're doing that, we should do our version of it. And they start bailing out, these mystics and clairvoyance to try to, like, use a cult spy where it's like a South park episode. Now, the way I view this is like, you're at the end of the war, you're just trying any you can. I guess I don't think it was actually effective. I Don't think they were actually using psychics to. To do the.

[B]

What do you think about our side tangent for a minute. We'll come back to this. But what do you think about some of our people? People like the Joe McMonicles and I forget this other lady, she was on Sean Ryan and then Chris Ramsey actually just had her on. I haven't had a chance to see it yet, but who were part of Project Stargating, claimed to be able to remote view. Do you buy any of it?

[A]

I don't know. I go back. Remote viewing is the thing. I think about it a decent amount because it's just like, like, they're like, Ingo Swan is a part of like CA docs and that he was actually working with them. I'm like, like the. I've had it explained to me this way that it's like low cost, high impact. So it's like, okay, this is. This budget for. This is going to be a million bucks. And to us, we're like, dude, you're spending a million dollars in remote viewing. There must be something there. If you look in the totality of the US defense budget, it's like 0.0001%. So they're like, oh, this costs nothing and the impact might be huge.

[B]

Right?

[A]

So let's give it a shot.

[B]

It's. It's like the moonshot kind of thing.

[A]

And it's like, yeah, let's just try.

[B]

Let's just see a couple cents at it.

[A]

Who knows? These people claim they can do some stuff. Let's talk, talk to them. And then they end up getting these docs. And then it, you know, like kind of, you know, goes out that way. I'm like, I just, I. I'm too skeptical to fully be like, yes, this is what's happening. But at the same time, there are a ton of like remote viewers that have been involved in like secret government projects for 70 years, 60 years.

[B]

It's just like Chris Ramsey was explaining to me the test score history of McMonacle and like the way I, I go roll that 248 that I did with him. Go roll that episode. Because he explained it. Or 247. He explained it way better. But there was like, there's a series of levels that you go through and they test you to be able to write on a piece of paper what's on like the other side of like a window that they have. And he scored like a perfect. I want to say six of six.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

On it or something. So there Was. It's like, there's a there, there, there. But is the there that's there something that can, like, you know, remote view something that's going to happen in a year or something like that?

[A]

And then on top of that, it's like, okay, you can. Let's say there is a there, right? You're. You're channeling something. How, like, predictable is it? Like, can you actually just be like, okay, give me coordinates. I'm going to see some secret base someplace far away, and then how reliable is that? Are you really going to send, like, a bunch of the boards always, you know, American troops?

[B]

Because this guy said this thing, right?

[A]

It's like, that costs a lot of money, too. Exactly.

[B]

About that.

[A]

Exactly. So it's like, I. I don't know. There's still a part of me that reserves skepticism, but I do find it interesting enough to look into.

[B]

Did you see the clip of that same lady I was talking about when she was on Sean Ryan, where he asked her about the crucifixion?

[A]

No.

[B]

That kind of freaked me out a little bit. Why would she say it could have been, like, total. If she's like an actress in complete bullshitting. It could have been like, just like a badass actress moment that was so bad that it was good. Or it's like, what the. Where, you know, Sean's sitting back there in his chair and he's like, so if you ever remote viewed the crucifixion and she just, like, looks up and she's quiet, and there's like a long pause. He goes, you don't want to talk about that. She's like.

[A]

That'S the whole clip?

[B]

That's the clip.

[A]

No know. We need to know what happened. Yeah.

[B]

Can we pull that up? Thief.

[A]

I mean, that's.

[B]

Hopefully Sean doesn't. I'll call Jeremy and they won't copyright us. Hopefully. But there's a clip. Sean Ryan, remote viewer. Jesus. Instagram. I mean, try that.

[A]

This is fascinating. Again, like, with the remote viewing stuff, I'm like, I find it all interesting. Like, I'm. I love diving into the rabbit hole, but, like, I haven't seen a case that I'm like, this is 100 true. You know?

[B]

Do I. Is it even possible to say that, though? You know, I mean, like, how do you. You like where. Yeah, this is it. Were you there? All right, so government psychic, physically disturbed when asked about remote viewing. The crucifixion. Here we go. If it's copyrighted, it's going to skip this. Go Google it. People, you'll be able to see it looked into.

[A]

If you tried to look into religion at all, such as the crucifixion.

[B]

I don't like, like that.

[A]

You have.

[B]

Do you not want to talk about that?

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Well, it doesn't give us. Doesn't give us a ton, you know, I mean, everyone.

[B]

Delivery was incredible there. You don't want to talk. It's like, all right, moving on.

[A]

I mean that. What does that tell you? Us?

[B]

I don't know, man.

[A]

It.

[B]

She could be a horrible actress. That's where my head did go. I'm not going to lie.

[A]

Or maybe. Maybe the Muslims are right.

[B]

Maybe.

[A]

Yeah, right. Like, like in Islam.

[B]

Tell her to draw Muhammad and we'll find out.

[A]

Okay, no, don't do that. No one do that.

[B]

But like, I'm not serious.

[A]

According to Islam, the, like, all my Muslim brothers will appreciate this. Jesus, peace be upon him, is the prophet.

[B]

Before you have to do like the thing too Beck lover goes, peace be upon him or something.

[A]

Okay. No, no, no, no. I have all respect for all religions.

[B]

Of the world, but no, no, it's like a sign of respect. I hope Beck lover's not like making that up. He's Muslim.

[A]

Oh, okay.

[B]

Every time he goes to Jesus, peace be upon him.

[A]

Oh, no, I've never seen.

[B]

Yeah, it's like kind of. You're like, oh, all right, we're here now.

[A]

That's so funny. Okay.

[B]

He gets very serious about it.

[A]

Well, they. They put the piece on. On Jesus. Every time I'm like, dude, that's. You guys might be more Christian than me. That's fire. But he's the. The prophet for the Prophet Muhammad also, peace be upon him. And they. According to some like, Muslim sources, again, it's never really said in the Quran. They basically say that it appeared to the people as if Jesus was crucified. That's what it says. And then there's no further explanation of what exactly that means. So some people suspect that it's possible that Jesus was switched.

[B]

What?

[A]

And that Jesus never died. That he basically was ascended into heaven as a prophet and then will return at the end of days to defeat the Antichrist, the Dajjal, and that this is like a part of like Muslim eschatology. And so Jesus is in heaven, ascends into heaven.

[B]

He ascended without being crucified.

[A]

Without being crucified. He just goes to live with. With Allah and then is going to come back at the end of days. But there was someone that was crucified to look like Jesus. Now, some Muslims believe this is not like, you know, doctrinal, but this is one of the elements of Islam. So if this woman went back and saw it, then maybe she's like, I saw it. Praise be Allah. No, it was. They swapped Jesus. I don't know. We have to ask her. We have to ask her what she saw.

[B]

Start some problems.

[A]

Someone was right, dude. So Runs in New York was right. But, yeah, that's. That's why I was hoping she was gonna be like, oh, yeah, yeah. No, he died, you know, three days in the tomb, went to heaven. 100 saw it. I'd be like. As a Catholic, I'd be like, thank you.

[B]

Grow your Easter live stream as Jesus.

[A]

One of the funniest things I've ever seen.

[B]

And we can't play because that's Eminem in the background. Oh, yeah, I watched that probably 75 times, bro.

[A]

I went to.

[B]

So good.

[A]

I went to church with my baby recently. This was like, last Sunday, dressed as Jesus, dressed as me. And then he. He kept on pointing at the crucifix, going, dad, Dad. I was like, no. I can see the confusion, but no. Yeah, yeah. Oh, my God.

[B]

Yeah, we discussed that on the Patreon.

[A]

Just pointing at Jesus, bro.

[B]

The two. Two trailer park girls might round me outside in the background, where you're like, yo, what's up, fam? I'm Risen. What's good? Yeah, Nah, we're kind of now on talking terms right now.

[A]

It was. It was like a trend. Like, I saw some people do it as, like, different historical figures, and I was like, I look too much like Jesus not to do this. I sent it to my priest. I was like, is this sacritis?

[B]

Was he upset about it?

[A]

He was like, no, I think it's.

[B]

Yeah, he's got it. I mean, it's comedy. That's what you do for a living. It's one like, we can't play it because of the music, but I wonder if, like, I can get away with.

[A]

It a little bit.

[B]

It's so funny. We back, wait for a few more people to join, and then the water turns to wine.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

Go live with Jude is rather not. Still not on good terms. How many followers do you have now? Start with 12. Numbers are going up pretty steadily.

[A]

You did. Watch it. You actually. You actually do. My hair looked great there.

[B]

Shout out, when's the merch dropping? Gonna do a chain draft. Pop up, pop up stores around Roman, Galilee.

[A]

I can send you the version without. Without music that we can play.

[B]

Send me that.

[A]

I Will. I will.

[B]

So many podcasts, bro. So good.

[A]

I appreciate that. Thank you.

[B]

Holy. You got to do more of that.

[A]

I almost.

[B]

You're like, a good actor, too.

[A]

Oh, thank you. I appreciate that. No one asked you. Not ask me. Ask me where I was during the crucifixion watch. What were you. I don't want to talk about.

[B]

No, no. You have to not say anything to, like, Itcher.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

That's right. Yeah. I'd buy it. I buy it. Have you thought about. I've asked you this before, but, like, since. Have you thought about, like, doing any acting? Stu, I know you weren't, like, the.

[A]

Biggest fan, but I'm again, I'm open. If someone is like, dude, we have this sick role. It's a part of his awesome thing. Do you want to be in it? I'd be like, 100% if it's like, hey, do you want to audition a bunch and see if you got something? I'm like, yeah, I'm good. But if it opened up again, I like stand up. I like. I love. I love comedy more than anything. That's the thing that I like, identify with as a human. So I'm like, I would do that if I could just do that forever. I'll do that forever. You know what I mean? So I'm like, that's thing, you know? Well, that's the thing with acting. You're trying your best to become someone different.

[B]

Right?

[A]

The Christian Bale is like, allegedly. I haven't seen any of his movies, but allegedly is able. No, I saw. I saw Dallas Buyers Club. Is he in there? No, same thing. So you can see, right? You can see, dude. I'll be honest. I met McConaughey and I met Dax Shepard at the same time.

[B]

You say you were great in Dark Knight to McConaughey. I'm a to shoot you if I.

[A]

Don'T think he was that good in Dark Knight, to be honest. But I, I, I met both of them, and I was kind of more excited to meet Dax because I listen to Armchair Expert is awesome. I listen to Armchair Expert all the time, and everyone was like, dude, Maana his. I'm like, dude, Dax is. Look at this. I love this guy.

[B]

Dax is great.

[A]

No, he's awesome. But. But more people. If you're going to meet McConaughey or Dax. More people.

[B]

I tell me you like Dax more than me.

[A]

Exactly. Like, most people are like, Dude, McConaughey, though. But I was like, like a flat circle. Oh, no. I saw Interstellar. I saw Interstellar fire. I loved it. So respect McConaughey. Respect to both them, of course, but.

[B]

What did you even just do to the mic? I've never seen that before.

[A]

Little. Little.

[B]

Let go.

[A]

Put a little blue chill in there.

[B]

What the.

[A]

You never seen that? No, it's called sex magic, okay?

[B]

It's giving. It's giving a little bit of dildo vibes.

[A]

All right, so I ruined everything. But, no, I. I would be interested. Actually, right now, the thing I'm curious about the most is I would love to do a comedy special about the age Abrahamic faiths.

[B]

Now, that's risky. I mean, you. I will say, like, I would love your. Even your clips, because obviously you're not putting your whole sets on Instagram, but even your clips, like, you take some risks and it works every time. You, like, own it.

[A]

I appreciate it.

[B]

And you're like, listen, just nerdy white guy here.

[A]

Don't mind me.

[B]

Anyway, Nigerian names.

[A]

Exactly. Well, dude, I, like, maybe I've shared this before on here.

[B]

I apologize. I, like, that's gonna.

[A]

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I ruined it. What did you.

[B]

You have an Allen gear?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What the.

[A]

Yeah, we're gonna put cr. I'm sorry, Deep. I ruined your mic.

[B]

It's all right. I'll fix it.

[A]

I It all up.

[B]

All right, that's better.

[A]

There we go.

[B]

Give it some Viagra.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. I love cultures, and I love people.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I think above anything else, like, I. I genuinely love people. Like, I'm so fascinated. And I. I don't judge. I'm like. I find it funny. I think there's certain things that I think are hilarious people. But, like, I love people, and I think the. Maybe not the best way, but an essential way to understand a culture is to understand their religion. Like, I always say this on religion. Like, I don't think you can understand a people without knowing the God they worship. So for me, it's like, I want to understand the faith because most of these cultures don't exist ontologically outside of their faith. Right? Like, in order to understand the Middle east, you have to understand Islam. To understand America, you have to understand puritanical evangelical Christianity. To understand, like, Western Europe, you gotta understand Catholicism. Like, it's intrinsic to understanding the people, is how they orient their lives. And for most of them, it's the most single important thing in their life. So it's like, at the very least, as a respectful human being on this planet, I should know the bare minimum, right?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I should understand what the Quran is about. I should read some of the Hadiths. I should get that. Like, I should read the Talmud. I should understand the Torah, the Tanakh. Like, to me, it's like, kind of just like being a respectful human being is to, like, know more or less what it's about. You don't got to read everything, of course. But so for me, I'm like, I love culture. I love people, and I want to understand how they're connected and. Or religion and culture and how they're connected. And so doing all these different channels is a way to kind of, like, understand better and be less ignorant about all these people. I share the planet.

[B]

Yeah, I like that you're doing the different topics like that too, where you have, like, religion camp as one. Go to the history and everything.

[A]

And then for me, comedy is just like, okay, let's take all this data and then make it funny. Yeah.

[B]

Now, how do you. Obviously, you're going to take risks doing that. Obviously, as a comedian, you can't worry about, like, on a certain level, offending someone who wants to be offended and stuff like that. But how do you do that in a way where you're like, all right, I'm gonna not piss off the majority of people. There will always be a subset, of course.

[A]

But the way you do that, most people are gonna like it, you know, more by knowing, like, about the culture and actually, like, immersing yourself, like, calling up your buddy from high school that is Nigerian, and you're like, oh, dude, I. I didn't. Like, I never even connected, like, your culture and like, the fact that your parents are, like, from, you know, Lagos or whatever. Like, I didn't. I didn't ever connect that with who you are as a person. So, like, tell me about your culture and you understand where the lines are. So, like, I would feel comfortable doing a show and having a. Like, I've done shows where it's like, a bunch of Muslims in the front, and I'm like, oh, I know what's funny about Islam without offending you guys. And I know where the lines are, and I know how to do that with Christians and with Jews. And by knowing more and how having. And just being more versed on, like, people, then you know what's going to offend them and, you know, more or less what they're going to find funny.

[B]

It's interesting because it feels like the lines are getting drawn more than ever between, like, cultures and people. Like, sometimes it feels like the Internet itself is like, we're all psyopping ourselves into separating groups more than ever. When the Internet is the tool that brings people together from around the world, I'm like, everybody before, like, the. The paradox there is insane.

[A]

Yeah. You go on Twitter and it's like, oh, everything's the Jews fault. And you're like. And then it's like, now anytime any type of, like, moral philosophy is just like, this ethnic group is the problem.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

You've completely missed the point. Like, you. You completely, like, jumped it. Like, what are you doing? Like, everyone's, like, talking about all these problems, like, oh, dude, wealth inequality and, you know, the cost of living and government and da. I'm like, these are all legitimate concerns. And then instead of, like, unifying as a force and being like, okay, let's try to get good politicians and, like, let's try to, like, actually. Actually have some agenda proposals that'll do good. You have dumb idiots on the Internet being like, oh, it's this people, right? They're the reason. I'm like, did you learn nothing?

[B]

Right?

[A]

And it's like, I think a great example is Uganda. Idiomine. Idiomine.

[B]

Yeah. Tell people who. Who didn't see last King of Scotland.

[A]

Exactly. Becomes the dictator of Uganda, and pretty summarily and very quickly just like, kicks out all the South Asia. They call them South Asians, we call them Indians, but they're all basically like, daisy, like, diaspora. Okay? So it's like Pakistanis and Indians that have moved to Uganda, and many of them were moving there as, like, indentured servants under the British and then built lives there and then started their own companies and businesses. And then IDI Amin comes in and says, we need to be Uganda first. We need to kick out all of the foreigners. If you're not Ugandan, if you don't have dark skin, if you're not of us, you're out. And so within 24 hours, he gave all these people an ultimatum and said, leave or be imprisoned. Hey, what's up, y'? All? Kelly Clarkson with Wayfair. My favorite thing about the holidays, Decking out my whole house. It's not a competition, but if it was, well, I'd win the season with Wayfair outdoor inflatable Santa. Got it on. Wayfair. Trees, lights and ornaments. Wayfair hosting must haves like dining sets, beds, sheets and towels.

[B]

Wayfair.

[A]

For everything in your style, delivered with fast and free shipping. Visit Wayfair.com or the Wayfair Apple to win the season. But again, it's not a competition. Wayfair. Every style Every home.

[B]

Jason, Disney asked me to do this podcast thing. I need some advice.

[A]

You've got to have banger guests. Walker and Leah, Daniel Deamer, Tim Simons, Adam Coveland.

[B]

You're the one asking the questions. How they better answer? I don't know anything. Epic.

[A]

This season is just a quest. I'm Ari in some Hajri. Well, welcome to the Percy Jackson and the Olympians official podcast, available wherever you get your podcasts. And watch season two of Percy Jackson, streaming now on Disney plus and Hulu. Learn more at disneyplus.com what's on? And so, as a result, you have this giant, like, brain drain of all these people that have built their entire lives. They are Ugandan. They've lived in this country their whole lives. Their parents are Ugandan. They just happen to look, you know, Indian. And so, as a result, the country kind of collapses because all of these economic drivers for the country are now leaving. And so I was. Overnight, it's like your laundromat is closed and your mechanic is not there anymore. And so all of a sudden, the country starts to implode on itself, and it's like, yeah, dude, you just kicked out all of the people that are, like, supporting your economy. Not all of them, but many of these people that are contributing to the economy, that are good members of your society, you kick them out. So anytime people are like, dude, it's this group's the problem. I'm like. And I know people on the Internet are gonna be like, oh, dude, you're doing Israeli propaganda. Oh, good.

[B]

Gore Moral.

[A]

I'm like, dude, I just. Anytime you're pointing at a group and being like they're the reason for all the problems in the world, you. You missed it.

[B]

First of all, you also have got. And I don't care where you're talking about here. It could be China, it could be Russia, it could be Israel, could be wherever. You have to be able to separate people from their government, too.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know what I mean? Like, people. I. I've always said this line. My friend Eric Zuler, who's someone you should definitely have on when he's in town, he's so funny. Unintentionally, too. But, like, you know, he's traveled the world in all these random places, particularly places that aren't recognized as countries, and he's like, people are not their governments, bro. You know, and when you start to define them that way by the decisions made, especially when a government's bad, which, you know, news flash, that happens a lot.

[A]

Yeah. Empires are kind of evil.

[B]

It's like, you know, you. It. Everyone just needs a boogeyman on. On. On things. And I guess when I was younger, when I was a teenager, I was just. I mean, news flash, I was very naive. Yes. There was a thought with, like, the Internet had. Had come in now, and I'm like, oh, wow. So no one will ever be able to separate themselves as a people, like, ethnically anymore. Like, they'll do it in small ways, but never, like, oh, look at them, or, oh, look at them, because we can all just talk to each other now.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

It has had the opposite effect in the modern era. And I feel like I'd love your thoughts on this. I feel like the real breaking point when people talk about, like, the political unrest after the global financial crisis in the US Certainly have a great argument there. But, like, the real breaking point was Covid, because you had something happen where particularly elites in power lied. Much of what was put out there was propaganda. Propaganda and wrong. And so it broke people. And I get it where they're like, therefore, anything that we have ever heard now or before is now wrong. We're just. It's gonna be. It's like spongebob. We're gonna be opposite day every day.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. And I think just like, contrarian thinking is maybe like a healthy exercise. Like, always, like, hear something and evaluate it, be skeptical, like, try to, like, digest it and think about it, but just by immediately taking the opposite stance of whatever the majority, whatever you've been taught your whole life and is, is going to lead you inevitably into the wrong direction or into multiple different wrong directions. And I think we're seeing that a lot with social media especially. I think things are. Because there's so much content, the algorithm's answer is to silo things. And so because there's just so much. You can't consume everything. The algorithms are basically, okay, let's keep people on these platforms. Let's give them something they love, something they hate, something they love, something they hate. Keep them on this emotional roller coaster because, like, you leave these social apps and you're not feeling bad better. You know what I mean? Like, generally, like, I turn off my phone, I'm not like, oh, that was so rewarding. Like, I'm so glad I did that. It's like, no, this is a slot machine, and you win sometimes and you lose sometimes. And they're designed in that way to hack your brain to make you feel kind of like you need another hit. That's right. Not like you need Good content or bad content, you just need another hit. So as a result, things are more siloed. Things don't spill over. You're kind of stuck in your echo chamber. And the concern is that it radicalizes people in every different direction. Not only, like, neo Nazi radicalization, but, like, you'll have, like, ultra left wing, like, dude, Mao was sick propaganda. And you're like, hold on, we're getting too separated here. And so I don't know if you know the YouTuber J reg.

[B]

No.

[A]

You may have seen him. He's, like, brilliant. I really like watching this stuff. It's, I think, story. I think his name might be Greg, but his handle is jreg. So I actually don't even know how he pronounces it, but he just does, like, really interesting, like, funny YouTube content about. About, like, the political space. And he did one. This was like four or five years ago about, like, the Overton Window. Oh, yeah, this dude, you've probably seen his face.

[B]

I have not seen this.

[A]

No, he's great.

[B]

Postmodern love songs. I already like him.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, he's. His new thing is, like, he's anti clanker, so he's like, against, like, the. The AI Clank revolution. So he's like, trying to.

[B]

Is that like a kind of thing?

[A]

It's a. It's a like a funny.

[B]

Say that on YouTube. YouTube.

[A]

Not in England, but yes, it's market.

[B]

Just not trying to get demonetized.

[A]

It's like a. The clanker thing is like a funny slur for, like, the robot overlords. Okay, Excuse me. And. But he made one of the Overton Window that I thought was great.

[B]

That explained the Overton window.

[A]

Overton window is basically the window of acceptable discourse within any society. So, you know, during McCarthyism, like, communism was outside of the Overton window. Like, it was. People were flirting with it, and people were like, no, no, no. You have to reel it in, be more centrist. Da, da, da. And so that window will shift. And, like, there's a bunch of different Overton windows that exist in different communities, right? Like, there's words that we won't use and that those exist outside the Overton window. And he basically made this thing, like, the window historically was like, shifting left. Shifting, right. You would have, like, during New Deal America, like, yeah, it was a little bit left. And then, like, you know, during Reagan was moving, right? And like, the way people would talk about stuff, this window is just shooting, shifting. And he's saying now the window is broken and that it's shifting in both directions. Where, like, left. Left thoughts are good, right thoughts are good, but centrist thoughts are out.

[B]

He's right.

[A]

And that by claiming to be a centrist, people on either side will be like, oh, you're actually right wing. Or being a centrist, be like, oh, you're actually left wing. And so now you have this bifurcation where the middle is out and the far ends are also out. And I was like, that is a great way to put it. The window is not shifting anymore. It's completely free, fractured.

[B]

You got to get that guy in for a podcast.

[A]

Oh, he's. I hit him up actually, recently. I think he lives in Canada, even Toronto.

[B]

Yeah. If you get him, send him here afterwards. I'd love to talk to him about that. That is. I think he's a thousand percent right.

[A]

But he has all sorts of interesting things about, like, horseshoe theory. Like, you know, we'll take you on one side. Well, it's like he has. You should just watch the videos. But, like, basically, like, in every different political strata, like, things are horseshoeing. And if you're familiar with horseshoe theory, it's like, as you go farther right and farther left, it kind of meets in the same thing. And so he's like, you have far right wing people that are like, yeah, dude, we hate Jews, we hate Israel. Da, da. And then you have far left wing people that are like, yeah, we also hate. And like, they're like, coming together. And he shows there's a bunch of different horseshoes. And I just think he's really clever. But on the Overton window thing, I'm like, I feel like that's what's happening is that as things are so siloed, people are kind of just getting whatever feed they want. And by having, like, a type of, like, politically neutral stance where you're sort of, like, taking some stuff from here, some stuff from here, and, like, being a normal human being, which I still maintain most people are, are the Internet and sort of the digital atmosphere that we're in, like, just separates people into such a crazy way. I don't even know if anyone believes anything. Are you people on Twitter being like, dude, Hitler was cool? And you're like, do you even believe this? Are you just trying to get clicks?

[B]

It's not even real.

[A]

Are you just living in some, like, developing country trying to make money on outraging people?

[B]

I'm like, yeah, that's a great point, Mark. I mean, you have to remember. And I'd like to think I'm not an optimist about this. I do. I. And you as well, obviously. Like, I do think we're right. But when you go on to Twitter, which is on every continent basically, probably on Antarctica too, I'm not sure. But you know, you can see a Tweet that has 50,000 likes and 3 million views and you're like, oh my God, that's what everyone thinks.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

First of all, 1.7 million of those views are bot accounts and not real, including a 30,000 of those likes and the 20,000 likes that are, there are people who are habitually tied to Twitter all day.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And liking shit. So I will give you an you an example. We were sitting in here recording with the religion business guys who are also dudes you should definitely have on your show on September 10th when Charlie Kirk was shot and we went to take a quick bathroom break. And during the bathroom break, Thief was like, dude, Charlie Kirk just got shot and it's really bad. And we were like, oh. And we got back on air and we were just all shell shocked. And then we finished. They. They left, deep left. And it was like a weird day. He's like, what? What the. And I remember just seeing Twitter and scrolling it 10, 15 minutes and seeing how angry people were. And I. And I get that completely right. And how politicized some of it immediately got and all that. And then I put my phone down, I walked to my window out there, and it was around 5:30 maybe. So it's during peak rush hour of people coming back. And I watched people walking back from the PATH train down my street.

[A]

Street.

[B]

And ironically, this was a day where not everyone was glued to their phones, which is. That felt very symbolic to me because usually, you know, I used to be texting down the street, but I'm watching people walk. And these are people from ages 22 to 60, all different backgrounds. People vote left, people that vote right, people that don't vote at all. And there was no one with like a commotion or like holding their phone out like, oh, see that people were going about their lives. I'm not saying that means you ignore something like that. That was a seminal event for all the wrong reasons and. And stuff. I'm not saying that, but I am saying this anger that you see at everything is not representative of the whole of society unless we try to make it in a way that we try to then dictate that thing to come out into the real world and force people to get involved and force people to get mad at each other, you know? Yeah, yeah.

[A]

100. I mean, even seeing people mad about, like, Zoran and Trump, like, talking, like, people on the left, like, why are they. Why is he, like, capitulating to this, you know, fascist? And people on the right being like, why is Trump talking this communist, saying that they agree on stuff? This is crazy. I'm like, no, no. Both these people are elected. They're in power. I would love to see people cooperating.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Like, again, I. This might just be my. My Christian bias, but, you know, I think about the Book of Matthew from time to time. Blessed are the peacemakers and not the peacekeepers necessarily. You don't need to just, like, allow anything to happen all the time.

[B]

Time, bro.

[A]

Yeah, just roll over. But, like, make peace and, like, find people you disagree with and try to find common ground and pull them back to your side, and maybe they'll pull you to your side, and we can all kind of be in the middle and lower the temperature. And I hate, like, the negative rhetoric because it also makes jokes harder in a way. Like, I love me, like, I love comedy above everything else. So, like, anything that infringes on my ability do stand up, like, is annoying to me. So, like, I love making cultural jokes and jokes, books about people's backgrounds, where they're from, and, like, religion and all sorts of stuff that, like, when the temperature gets too hot, people immediately get scared. And so I'll be talking. So I'm like, oh, you're Mormon. And people are like, oh, dude, he's talking about religion. I'm like, no, no. I'm just like, I know where the lines are. I'm just gonna make some funny jokes about the underwear. It's gonna be fine. Like, I talked to a Muslim dude, a Jewish guy, and I even feel the tension where people are like, oh, no. And in certain ways, the tension is good because you can release it. But at the same time, like, I don't want to have to justify myself. Like, hey, I'm operating good faith. I love people, and I love these people. Specifically at the show right here in front of me, I have nothing but empathy and respect, and I just want to, like, tease and poke fun and make fun of myself and make fun of them. It's not that deep. And I. You can just feel the tension in the room, though. It's like, oh, he said black. Oh, no, this is going to be bad. And it's like, guys, it's okay. Like. Like, I understand that there's actual bad actors out there that exist to, like, stir up vitriol and get People to hate each other. That's not me. And I just kind of want the temperature to settle because again, like, I don't think racism is funny, but I think racial jokes are very funny.

[B]

No, seriously though, there. There's a huge difference there.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, you talk to anyone, any of your guys that you've had on who are like in the military or whatever. I mean, that's like the diversity coalition.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The most they got every race, creed and religion in that thing. And the way that they pass. They'll tell you the way that they pass the time is making funny jokes about each other's cultures.

[A]

Yeah, it's great.

[B]

Yeah, it's awesome.

[A]

I feel like that's just how dudes talk.

[B]

That's what I'm saying. It's like there's somewhere along the way it became, you know, this locker room duck.

[A]

You're not allowed to do that at all.

[B]

You know, I'm not saying you gotta go all the way with things.

[A]

Don't be full Italian.

[B]

You know, sometimes deep hits me, like.

[A]

I gotta pull it back.

[B]

But still, like when we got to a point where people were litigated, hitting every word you said, you're like, oh, this slippery slope's way worse than whatever the other side is. Like, yeah, that's where we're at now, where it's getting weird because you made that point that J reg the YouTube channel right there.

[A]

Which.

[B]

Can we make a note to link that in the description just so people can. Can check that out? But like, he was talking about the Overton window has now removed centrism and it's far one way or the other. And I don't think there's any better example than like, the dichotomy of like, not to single it out. But just look at. At this kind of like, symbol right here. The dichotomy between like, woke policing of all words and anyone who speaks against us. We're going to throw on some mass and shut down your speech at a college with Balacavas and Versus like Nick Fuentes. Like the. There is no. I. There's nothing but air between those two. You know, I mean, heavier that they can't walk through with gas, nitrous, whatever. Right. Like, there is. There is significant space between them. And so people who are just like, yeah, no, I don't like that. I don't like that either. They're like, shut the up.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Right now, like, to me, I've been talking about this recently because I hadn't seen Christopher Nolan's Batman trilogy In a while. But I rewatched it a couple months ago and Holy did he. Because he made these movies in 04, 07 and 2011, they came out in 05 08. In 2012. Holy. Did he nail where society was going.

[A]

Prophetic.

[B]

Yeah, like, and he does that with a lot of his movies. But what he does is before he does a film he picks a word as his tone. This is what the film is about. Not necessarily the title of the film, like a word. So for Dark Knight it was chaos. I started thinking about that. I'm like, oh my God. Okay, Dark Knight, Chaos. Who represents that? Well obviously the Joker. He's K. Right, but who's the symbolic figure? Spoiler alert. In the movie, who gets flipped by the chaos? Harvey Dent, who becomes two faced. He becomes the very thing that he hates. And I looked at, I said some of the shit that's being pushed on the Internet right now is the Joker. And we all have to decide if we're going to be Harvey Dent. Are we going to become the things that used to be like, ah, nah, come on, that's me. Like be a nice guy, you know what I mean? Regardless of what your beliefs are, just stop. Or are we gonna be like, yeah, this, we're so mad that we're gonna become that.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because now you have people on the right being like, you can't make jokes about this, you can't make jokes about whatever terrible thing I don't like. And it's like really like it's just like circling back and it's like, let's just everyone take a breath. Yeah, yeah, like, and I, I understand information is hard and understanding what's going on is difficult, difficult. So like the way I operate is if I don't understand something, pop into chat gbt, ask a question, you know, pop into grok, ask the same question. You get two answers, you find kind of like the balance and then you go ask someone that you think knows. If you have a question about a religion, about a culture, about a people, go ask them. And then you'll realize like, oh wow, we're actually human beings and we agree on a lot of stuff and we're not actually all that crazy. And if you don't know, then just maybe, maybe listen.

[B]

Oh, that, that would change.

[A]

Shut the up.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Like there's a lot of I don't know and I probably said a lot of stuff on here that I, that might not even be completely factual. But I'm operating in good faith and if I got Something wrong. That's, you know, that's my bad. And, like, if I don't know, I'll just be like, dude, I don't know.

[B]

Yeah, you're putting out three episodes a week. Some of them are three hours. Like, you know, at four. Yeah, Christo. Like, damn, joker. Like. Like, yeah, but, you know.

[A]

But finding people you think are operating good faith, I think is essential.

[B]

Yes. And you're not gonna get every line right or you're gonna say something. You'll be like, well, that was dumb.

[A]

Afterwards.

[B]

Like, it's part of being human. But I think there are a lot of people who do that now, by a lot of people, I mean a handful of people relative to society online who make a living by doing that in 280 characters or less, 40 times a day. And I think they start to believe it after a while.

[A]

Oh, yeah. You heard that term, the mask eats the face? Actually, no, it's. It's. I think about a lot because it's like. I think people specifically online will kind of play characters. Like, you'd be on Twitter and you'd be like, okay, I'm doing this, like, outrage. People like to get clicks and da, da, da. And after enough time, this mask ends up becoming you. You know what I mean? Like, the mask, like, literally eats the person that's wearing, and then the character becomes the person. Yeah.

[B]

You know, nobody cared who I was tomorrow.

[A]

Exactly, dude. Interstellar or whatever.

[B]

Damn it.

[A]

He's on the spaceship. I haven't seen it. I'm just assuming. I'm not familiar exactly with all the movies. I'm sorry. Okay. I read books sometimes on Wikipedia.

[B]

Yeah. Who does all the research? Christos.

[A]

No, we actually.

[B]

Over here, like, I'm. I'm the brains.

[A]

We have a bunch of people that are awesome. We got my. My buddy Zach, my friend Sophia, my buddy Jesus. And, like, they'll pitch topics and ideas and, like, help aggregate the research. And we go through it and then, you know, pick some stuff, write some jokes and slip some jokes in there.

[B]

But, dude, the jokes are fucking phenomenal. I appreciate. Because your timing is so good with it. Like, the little things. I was seeing one recently. I think I was watching the Freemasons one. And you're like, christos, do you want to talk? He starts to say something. Well, and that wasn't.

[A]

That's become a running gag throughout the episode. I mean, where do they even start? Do you remember? All right, all right, all right. So look, it's like it just tries to jump in all the time. Just Nonstop. Every part I do. It's really annoying.

[B]

Well, at least he's not on the other side of the. A wall now.

[A]

Yeah, exactly.

[B]

Mark used to have this poor guy. Like, there was, like, a wall separating me. You have to, like, yell through the wall. And it was in a little lair.

[A]

It was an east, like, Harry Potter like, under what's.

[B]

What was that thing called? The cupboard.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. You're in a cupboard under the stairs.

[B]

We're in this nice studio in Kid Super.

[A]

Yeah, we brought him inside finally.

[B]

Yeah. Jesus.

[A]

But no, that's a running gag. We do every episode that I think Chris does.

[B]

I love the timing on it.

[A]

I love.

[B]

I love the timing on it. But, you know, like, you're also. It's. It's funny, but you're talking about real things, including some. Sometimes, obviously you're covering one where you're like, all right, a lot of people are saying, this one's not real, but here's what's reported on it. But then you're talking about other things, like the Freemasons that are like, turn over a fucking dollar, bro. This is real.

[A]

Well, that's the thing that I find interesting about conspiracy stuff. Like, obviously being raised in the home that I was raised, and I was, like, inoculated with this from a young age, but, like, I was. I was vaxxed out. That was the only vax I got, actually, was conspiracy. But it's like, I think that by discrediting stuff and, like, writing it off, you just leave way more room for people to run with crazy narratives and bad actors that are trying to make money off you. And so I'm like, okay, let's just examine what's actually out here and why people believe this, right? Like, was America founded by Freemasons? You're like, just sort of, you know, like, a lot of high ranking, like, founding fathers were a part of the Freemasons. Is it this evil satanic cult trying to, like, you know, do child sacrifice? I'm like, sure, there's bad actors in every society, but it seems like it was like a men's club where guys would share ideas. I'm like, did you join? I wish, I wish, dude. I think I. I actually went to the Freemasonic Temple in Boston and, like, walked around and toured it. It's kind of sick. It's like one of the oldest ones in the US And I knew a guy that ended up buying the restaurant that was connected to it. He was like, yeah, we have access. Do you want to go look? And I was Like.

[B]

Yeah, so like a little tunnel.

[A]

No, it was like just a bunch of different rooms.

[B]

That's only in Brooklyn. You got some.

[A]

I was going to say show that.

[B]

I brought to the Edinburgh Fringe in 2022.

[A]

Our theater was an old Freemasons temple. Oh, there's a bunch. Yeah, A lot of them are defunct. Like, the. The Masonic in San Francisco is like a massive performing arts venue. It's like concerts and comedians. Like, we perform there. Like a bunch of like. It's like a. Just like a theater.

[B]

Do you feel the ghosts in the walls?

[A]

Yeah, exactly, dude. You can hear George Washington talk to you. Like hell, dude. Is Ben Franklin in here?

[B]

Yeah, Ben Franklin was Masonic.

[A]

A bunch of them. But again, I don't subscribe to this idea that, like, it's a satanic cult doing death rituals to, like, children to, like, drink their blood. Which, like, is part of not. I don't even know if anyone even believes that. But, like, you just hear crazy stuff. I'm like, my assumption is that it's a, like an organized society based off of like, Old Testament, like, mystical schools. Like, you know, King Solomon obviously is like one of the founding, sort of like, I guess, guess philosophical, like, ethos that kind of fit into Freemason. Like Freemasonry. But it's like this medieval, like, men's club where like, philosophers and like New Age kind of thinkers were meeting and talking. And then it carried on the tradition. It's kind of like a frat.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Is the way I see.

[B]

That's how. That's how it always kind of felt. But people run with it and they're like, oh, they're controlling the world.

[A]

At a point they did. Maybe at a point they did point.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I don't. I think now it's. All the Masons I've ever met are just like a bunch of old dudes that sit around and wear coins. Cool outfits, right?

[B]

They wear like the kilt.

[A]

Their little case.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Which people say is the. The Google Mail logo. You ever seen that?

[B]

The Google Mail logo, which is Masonic logo.

[A]

Yeah, this is. This is. Again, maybe. I have no idea.

[B]

On the 33rd floor.

[A]

Exactly, dude. Like, and so I'm like, hashtag Blackstone. I'm like, maybe again, I'm not ever saying what it is.

[B]

Come on.

[A]

This is what they wear. They. They wear like this sort of like, red little apron. Different thing.

[B]

I would have thought scarlet letter more than that.

[A]

But people are like, dude, this is literally Gmail. Gmail is Masonic mail. That's how they got Epstein, what it, what it is he's messaging from a Gmail. Like, dude, like, use proton or something. Like use telegram, like what?

[B]

Throw the ivory codes via Gmail on the Gmail vacation. Gmail.

[A]

What are you doing?

[B]

Dude, it's incredible.

[A]

Have you emailed that email yet? We should just see if anyone's reading.

[B]

Fire went off from Joey Deef.

[A]

Dude, another great little.

[B]

Pulls them up. Yeah, I'm hearing about this Joey Deef.

[A]

Have you ever heard. Yeah, he's gonna be at Edinburgh Fringe next year. That might be a good way to promote your dates. I'm just saying, forming at the venue from 15:00 to 16:00'. Clock. Yeah, I might do that. I might just drop my tour dates in an email, hope it gets released. And then people are like, wait, Mark's in here. Here, wait a second. He's going to be at Zany's in Chicago. Gotta go see this guy.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

But yeah, I'm like, there. There's all sorts of weird with that. The one that I think is really funny is, have you seen Maxwell Hill? Have you heard this? People suspect that Galaine Maxwell was a power broker on Reddit.

[B]

Oh, I have seen this before. Do you think that's real?

[A]

There's a lot of weird shit with it.

[B]

All right, what's the weird?

[A]

Well, like, okay, a couple of things is that there's basically a Reddit account that is like a mod on, like, the top subreddits, like, world news and like, all the biggest ones that have millions of people that are getting their news every single day coming from Reddit. And there's like a bigger conspiracy that like, oh, intelligence and like, different foreign operatives are a part of this, like, small community of people that control what you see on Reddit. And this is like millions of people getting their information with a disorderly small group of anonymous editors that are like, submitting links and getting instantly approved and getting to the front page.

[B]

That doesn't sound crazy.

[A]

It's not. So that part is a little, little weird. And people suspect that, you know. Well, people don't suspect this. This is true. That there is an account called Maxwell Hill that was disseminating a ton of information across all of these different Reddit accounts or all of these different subreddits basically, like, promoting different ideas. Ideas. And a lot of it was just like regular news stuff. But people look at a lot of the comments and they say, oh, they're using a lot of like, British colloquialisms saying like, bloody hell. And like, spelling Color, like O U R. Oh, yeah. And so it's like a lot of like British isms. And then there's even like PL S E, which I need to double check. I think she's saying please. But normally when people, when normally when people will abbreviate please, they'll do pls. She's doing it the British way. PL S e. And if you look at the emails that she has corresponding with Jeffrey E.P. epstein, there's a lot of the same words that are used. Not to mention that the day she was arrested, the account never posted again. You can fact check me on this, please. I'm pretty sure that's the case.

[B]

That is.

[A]

But like there's posts every single day, multiple times a day, all the way up until the day she's arrested. And then since the day she's arrested, the account has been inactive.

[B]

You know what I think about with this whole case, not just this one.

[A]

Example, but her name's Gillian Maxwell and the account is called Maxwell, Maxwell Hill.

[B]

Right, that's what I'm saying. It's like if I were, and I don't know who this would be or what the motives would be, I have my thoughts on who Epstein is and who he worked for and all that, but it's. He's obviously someone who especially by the end of his life had a very high profile. He was known to probably every functional intelligence agency around the world. If I were any type of foreign actor trying to create mass hysteria, confusion, insert adjective here, along those lines. And I knew about cases like this, I might do something like this. I might, you know, have a little side gig for the analyst over here. Hey, you know, use some British colloquialism, set up this account, call it something really obvious too. And then, you know, if she ever goes down, we'll shut it down.

[A]

Possible.

[B]

It's possible. Or it's exactly what it looks like. And it's like that. When you look at that, that is 0 to 100. There's like no, there's no middle. Those are complete opposite scenarios. That's what makes it so confusing. And sometimes it's like there are, there are some conspiracies that are so true and so up obvious and right in your face and you know it. And it's not like if you brought it into a court of law, if it were ever allowed to be in a real court of law, they'd be. The jury wouldn't even go back to deliberate it there. It's guilty. Yeah, but if I were the people who were a part of those things, or whose livelihood depended on, you know, things like that being shoved under the rug. I would try to promote a massive campaign using the Internet, of course, force to try to get people to believe everything. Believe that the earth is flat. Believe that, you know. You know, the sun gods are coming down to do whatever the. To an alien anal probe. You insert it here so that all these. The people who had the loudest voices would run with everything.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Such that. I'm going to use round numbers here. Let's say they were screaming about 10 different conspiracies, and one of them's Epstein. It's 100. True. Everything they're saying is actually, like, bar for bar, word for word. True. I could then discredit them by saying, oh, you're gonna listen to this guy?

[A]

Look at the other.

[B]

He believes.

[A]

Disinformation.

[B]

That's what I would do. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. It's not crazy to me. And like, again, if you're putting in a bunch of. I mean, like, people will say, like, the term conspiracy theorist is, like, created by the government. It's a whole. Yeah, the CIA. Yeah. So it's like, potentially you'd, like, put in a bunch of good stuff with the bad stuff. And by good, I mean true and then bad, false, and you just kind of mix them up, and then you can discredit people pretty easily, which is possible. Which is why I'm like, just be extremely scrutinizing with everything you consume. And that's why I'm, like, kind of averse to certainty. I'm like. I kind of leave everything as, like, maybe, like, I don't really assume that I know anything unless I've, like, interacted or, like, seen something with my own eyes. Like, I generally try to keep a little air of humility. Like. Yeah, I don't really know.

[B]

Good for you.

[A]

I like, more or less. I hope I've done that today. I'm like, yeah, maybe. Was Crowley talking to an alien? Maybe. Maybe.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Is Epstein just asking questions here?

[B]

Yeah, just ask questions.

[A]

You know, I think it's interesting. I think it's worth examining, but again, I'm never going to say it is or it isn't, but is it possible that Glenn Maxwell, you know, understood the power of media and the power of controlling information? And maybe she learned it from a newspaper magnet that, you know, is. Shares her same name that happens to be her father that's connected with intelligence? I mean, it's possible. This episode is brought to you by Greenlight. Get this. Adults with financial literacy skills have 82% more wealth than those who don't. From swimming lessons to piano classes, us parents invest in so many things to enrich our kids lives. But are we investing in their future financial success? With Greenlight you can teach your kids financial literacy skills like earning, saving and investing. And this investment costs less than that. After school treat start prioritizing their financial education and future today with a risk free [e-mail] Spotify greenlight.com Spotify. But who knows? I don't claim to know.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And if there is is not a good faith person that's running the Maxwell Hill account that I've completely besmirched, I apologize.

[B]

And yeah, good preemptive apology.

[A]

Yeah. And this is all legend or just kind of makes it all legend but.

[B]

You know, just asking questions here from my end, not marrying you to anything.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

But what do you think Epstein was?

[A]

I think it connected to everything. I think he was just like a power broker that liked to conquer shit and also happened to be a pedophile file, you know what I mean? Like, and he was using all this stuff connected. I wouldn't even surprise me if like he was, you know, sort of propped up because they knew that they had this like blackmail on him. Like hey, you're, you have this terrible like evil affliction where you try to abuse children and successfully do. And so as a result of your, you know, predilection in this like evil thing that you do, we can now give you information because you're compromised off grip and then you can do a lot of our bidding and dirty work and like manage a lot of finances. We can use that. Exactly. So like that wouldn't surprise me and I think he's probably connected to everyone. He's like making deals with whoever is going to get him more power. So if he's working with CIA, sure. If he's working with you know, foreign intelligence, massage, MI6, I'm sure he's connected to everyone. I don't think that he has super strong nationalistic lines. Except for what makes Jeffrey Epstein more money and more power.

[B]

Yeah, I could see how intelligence services over the years of course were discovering, you know, insert country here, whether it be the us, uk, wherever. We're discovering that this intelligence asset was running some of the sickest twisted things right under their nose. And they realized people in their own government were now blackmailed by it. And so they knew there was a line on what they actually could do with them. And I have personally my opinion. I don't Have a lot of doubt that these organizations, be it MI6, be it CIA, you insert it here, here, you know, would have gone to a guy like that and said, it's like two people holding a gun to each other. Like, okay, you know that we know that you know that we know that we can't actually stop you from doing this because of what you know about what we know about what you know about what we know. Therefore, you're now paying a tax. Yeah. So if we want some information, you're going to give it to us, you know, and you get to do your sick, sadistic, twisted.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And they make literally the deal with the. The devil. Yeah, I could see that. And I think that's why a lot of these countries around the world don't want to talk about this, because they may look at it and say, oh, you know, he. He was like a Mossad guy or something like that. But then we all got involved too.

[A]

Yeah, Everyone's. I think. I don't think anyone's hands are clean. Like, people try to pin it on one specific country. Everyone's like, oh, he's obviously connected with these people. I'm like, he was given a sweetheart deal in the United States. You know what I mean? Like, he was operating generally with impunity in the United States.

[B]

But they're. They're going to say in the comments, mark, don't you know the Jews run the world.

[A]

Exactly. I'm like, look, I think he's connected to anyone that's willing to cut him a deal.

[B]

I think the emails actually are making that case more than ever. Reading through this and seeing all the different countries, he's like, getting involved with the senior government. It's like, what the. Like, sometimes countries you never heard of. Yeah. And you're like, this guy is just, you know. Yes. He's running around with a hood. Barack for sure. And that's not great in every way. And, and yeah, I think that's where it emanated from, probably with Israel. But he's becomes this whole thing.

[A]

Yeah. I. Again, I gen. I almost look at him like Crowley in a way where I'm like, you were willing to just do reconnaissance for whomever was going to just like, cut you a deal. Yeah. And I think he was like, yeah, eventually. Like, everyone's got comp. Like, compromise on me. I got compromise on them. We're in a standoff.

[B]

Yeah. I asked. We had Lawrence Kraus in here in 2023 or whatever. And, you know, he was a physicist who got his. Funded by Epstein, he went to the island and everything. And you're asking him about it, he's like, well, physicists need money. He was offering money and he was like, legit friends with the guy. And it's like, you're always going to. Anytime you meet someone that this guy touched or was around, it's a bad word to use, but you know what I mean? Was around, there's always going to be that question, like, are you. You know, maybe, maybe not. But there is no doubt that he had a tremendous ability to obviously schmooze people who really were pedophiles or sick, sadistic fucks, which there's no doubt that there is an uncomfortable number of people in positions of power, if you will, who are that. But he was also able to schmooze other people who weren't.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And by doing that, associate them with the whole thing and make them dirtied forever.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And though. And I. Your guess is as good as mine, which people are which, you know, there's some, I think we can see definitely lean one way, but like, you know, the ones who actually didn't do anything and just got besmirched by or whatever.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I feel a little bit bad for some of them. Some of them it's like, you know, like, dude, why were you still talking to me?

[A]

2014, you know, he was convicted. Like, you should have known.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But, yeah, no, there's people going to the island in 1999. They're like, yeah, I didn't know. And maybe they're lying. Maybe they're telling truth. Again, I don't know. I don't know these people. So I'm just like, going off word. But like, I. I wouldn't be surprised if this is an attempt to, like. Yeah. Get everyone wrapped up with him.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then everyone's a little dirty and then everyone shuts the fuck out.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

And we can keep on, like, funding this coup in this country and sending weapons to this country. And I think the financial dealings are in a way, like, almost dirtier. Like, obviously, like, his sex trafficking operation is like the most vile thing I know on human earth, but it's like the financial operations implicates way more people.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know what I mean? Like, let's say a couple hundred people are going to this island to do, you know, like, criminal sexual activity. It's like, oh, well, how many? Hundreds of thousands.

[B]

He funded a civil war that killed 100,000 people. Right.

[A]

How many people are saying, how many people are implicated in the four financial Crimes. Yeah, that he was basically operating as like a. You almost like a financial black site, where it's like, hey, some money here finds people here. I think they. I think a lot of people benefited from everyone being wrapped up and dirty in this web.

[B]

I think you're right.

[A]

And the fact that, yeah, every government is run by pedophiles. My mom's right.

[B]

Mrs. Gagnon was on to it. She was. She was an early adopter, if you will.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

She bought the iPhone one on. On the pedophile government thing. But, you know, I had Mike Yagley sitting in that seat a couple times. And it was funny because at the end of. End of the first episode, we did. We record the whole thing. And basically, he's a. A data expert who can go through data and figure out what people are doing and where they are, like, as a publicly accessible spying tool. And so he runs through his whole history with this and how he brought it to the government going, you guys got a fucking problem? And then at the end of our first conversation, he's like, yeah, we didn't even get to Epstein today. I'm like, what? He's like, oh, yeah. I was tracking people. The island. I'm like, damn it. You say that at the beginning of the episode, not the end. So I brought him back. That. We did 343. I brought him back right away. We did 351. And he went through that whole thing. When the Epstein story came out, like, really mainstream in 2019, he's like, oh, I can go buy data from 2015, 2016, 2017, right in there. And long after he was convicted and see who's down there.

[A]

And he's like.

[B]

He's got it down to the names of the bartenders who were there standing across from Bill Gates while he's on the island, 2016. And he's. And. And I said, obviously, you're very connected with the government now because you had undercover you. Basically, over a decade ago, he had uncovered all this about some of their missions being publicly available, clandestine missions. Anyone could get it from their bedroom if they tried. And I'm like, what'd they do with this information? He said, no one ever called about it. And you could tell, like, Mike Yagley looks like he's about to have a brain aneurysm at all times that he's talking. But you could tell, like, that vein in his forehead was just like, they never called.

[A]

Whoa.

[B]

And you're just like, of course they didn't.

[A]

You gotta wonder why they didn't like, yeah, we know.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. And there's probably other people doing similar stuff, and maybe it's not to this scale or maybe it's not this exact pathway, but it's like, yeah, there's this guy that's cheating on his wife, and he's being used as a tool for this operation. There's this dude who's secretly gay and living in a country where it's illegal, and he's doing this thing. You're not going to give someone power and information without having some type of. Some type of rope on it.

[B]

You know, that's the great. I don't want to call it a hypocrisy, but that's a great oversight. I think people who really look at this case have. It's. It's like the thing about Epstein is that he was so overt about it, and he got cocky. Yeah. And just. He liked being seen. Right. And that did him in. That he did himself in. He went from being a very effective spy, if you will, to being a very bad spy. Because the number one thing about a spy is that any of these guys will tell you you don't want to be noticed. And he learned how to get notice. And, like, getting noticed notice. And it's like, that makes it extra in your face. And then the scale of people that we now know he was attached to, the names, it's just like, in your face. To. To say, though, that that doesn't happen at a way more uncomfortable scale than we think across intelligence agencies around the world. And here would be naive, in my opinion.

[A]

Yeah. But it goes. It goes against the American ethos. We're the good guys.

[B]

Yeah. We're supposed to.

[A]

We don't do anything wrong.

[B]

But that's the thing, Mark. You have an organization of tens of thousands of people, and it's compartmentalized. All you need is five people to be in on something that other people don't have. Reading on. They talk about it in a skiff, and they run a mission, and they.

[A]

Say, you think all these people can keep a secret? Some people. Some people still believe in Santa. Right. Bringing it all the way back, dude. Some people believe it way too long.

[B]

Do you think the Freemasons invented Santa as, like, a psyop on society?

[A]

Oh, that's fire. Let's think about it. Let's think about it.

[B]

I thought about that in the Amazon reading My back.

[A]

We didn't even talk about that. I wanted to get a whole deep dive on your. On your Amazon experience.

[B]

We'll do that in another episode.

[A]

I can't wait. But Santa, I mean, I'm pretty sure Santa came out of like, this is like Dutch like Santa culture or something. I heard they made him red because of Coca Cola. I don't know if you ever heard that.

[B]

No.

[A]

Yeah, some people, Some people.

[B]

I don't even want to Google that.

[A]

Some people, some people think he's red because there was like a mushroom that people used to take during the pagan holiday that. Yeah, exactly.

[B]

Use my link. JD22 Sponsored that's right.

[A]

But it's like the red and white mushroom that people would take. But no, Santa's probably not Freemasons, but maybe what is the history?

[B]

Like, when did the Freemasons be begin?

[A]

The technical beginning is medieval. I think it's like 1300 14.

[B]

And they literally started as like stonemasons because they wanted to like build after the plague. Is that right?

[A]

It was like a guild basically of like stonemasons that were like smart, coming together, forming a union. And then it kind of got imbued with like mystical elements that hearkened back to the second Temple period of ancient Israel where King Solomon basically built, you know, the temple for the Jews that was then destroyed by the second one was by the Babylonians. And so Hiram Abiff was this. This is not in the Torah or anything, but this is like alleged through like Jewish folklore that Hiram Abiff was a Phoenician architect. And the Phoenicians at the time were the ones that were building all the cool in the area. So they bring in this Phoenician architect that's able to build the second temple. And his name is Hiram Abiff. And in Freemasonic lore, Hyrum Abiff is like the master builder, the master mason that has all of this unknown knowledge that's able to know how to build these amazing structures. There's also an element where like some people believe that King Solomon used demons to build temples, that he was given a ring that was from like one of the archangels that basically was able to like control the spirit world. And that was part of how they built it. This is again folklore. And the masons, like when the Freemasons were actually developed in medieval Europe, it was hearkening back to this period. But technically the actual formation is around medieval times. And then American Freemasonry comes out of Scottish, right. Freemasonry that is kind of like a reinterpretation of old European masons. But it was developed by Albert pike, who was a former Confederate general that ends up being relieved of his duties As a Confederate general. General and then develops.

[B]

Confederate general, yeah. Not a United States.

[A]

No, this is during Civil War.

[B]

Oh, it's during Civil War, yeah.

[A]

That Scottish right, Freemasonry comes out of Albert Pike's hand.

[B]

Oh, I thought you. I'm thinking like pre revolution, so the timelines off. Okay.

[A]

Yeah. It's like Freemasonry seems like it really develops in America around civil wartime from Albert Pike.

[B]

But it was very existent, the old guard.

[A]

And it kind of like lost some of its allure because it went too public. Da, da, da. So people are trying to of like they got ostracized. A lot of people left because there was like a bunch of scandals that happened. And then Scottish right, Freemasonry kind of like rebirthed it in America.

[B]

What were the scandals?

[A]

I'm trying to remember exactly. There was specific scandals where like one of the lodges went very public and they were like. No, the whole thing is that were supposed to be underground, so they went very public. And then there was another scandal. I forget what it was. There was one that like kind of did them in. I can't remember specifically, but it was. Was like some type of death or like there was a cover up.

[B]

Oh, there was William Morgan disappearance, 1826.

[A]

William Morgan. Yeah. Yeah. So this was one of the ones in America that basically this guy was associated with the Masons. And then there was like a big clash with like the religious elite and the Masons because they always hated each other. And then he ends up disappearing and no one ever finds out where he's from or where he went or anything like that. And they're like, oh, the Masons killed him. And then it became a whole scandal that like really affected like the philosophy and the idea around Freemasons in America. And then Albert pike writes this book that basically becomes the handbook for Scottish Rite Freemasonry.

[B]

Can we Google this? Steve, how many US Presidents are confirmed Masons?

[A]

I'm trying to remember. I think it was like 13. That's gonna be my number. I'm gonna go with 13. What do you think?

[B]

I know there were 13 Declaration of Independence or constitutional signers. Fifteen, including Lyndon B. Johnson, who took only the first degree. So it wasn't. Yeah, barely.

[A]

Yeah, barely.

[B]

Most recent one to have undisputed membership. Undisputed was so that's Gerald Ford. But does that mean it was like disputed the Ronald Reagan or Bill Clinton or Mason?

[A]

I guess that's the idea is like, oh, they're connected to it in some way. There's other presidents that were In. But they weren't. Yeah.

[B]

Isn't Shack a Mason?

[A]

Possibly. There's a Prince Hall Freeman, like, he talks about. About it. Prince Hall Freemasonry is basically like the black rebirth of Masons in America.

[B]

Can we Google that?

[A]

They didn't.

[B]

Yeah, I don't want to get that wrong.

[A]

If I'm wrong, it might be true. I don't know.

[B]

I love Shrek, by the way.

[A]

Well, I don't care what. That's a really interesting thing. A lot of the Masons that I met in Florida were all black dudes, and they came through Prince Hall Freemasonry.

[B]

Yeah, he was. Yes. Shaquille o' Neal is a Freemason. He was initiated into the Prince Hall Freemasonry. Freemasonry at the Widow's son's Lodge, number 28 in Boston, Massachusetts, and was granted the rare honor of being made a Master Mason at sight.

[A]

Yeah, I get it.

[B]

Need that clap.

[A]

I get it. Dude. You see Shaq walking around, you're like, yeah, that guy's with this guy. That guy's the. The chief. Whatever. Make that guy. That make him the president, dude. It's the scariest dude I've ever seen. But, yeah, like, Prince hall from Masonry is basically, like, again, it's contested within, like, Mason circles, which is why I'm like, deliver on the world. Like, they're having set beefs, you know, I mean, like, they have sectarian, like, disputes. Because Prince hall for Mason Reeves, basically, like, yeah, we're going to let black people become Masons.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it became like a whole contingent of, like, part, like, the civil rights movement where, like, you had a lot of, like, black dudes basically gathering together in these Masonic halls, like, hey, we should have rights. And they were like, yeah. And so they were. It gave, like, a meeting place for a lot of, like, early civil rights stuff was coming out of Prince Hall Freemasonry. So that's why I feel like it's just a frat.

[B]

I mean, yeah. In the modern day, it feels that way, but, like, there's no doubt that there was some influence for sure. I mean, you look at this country, and regardless of the sec, that you're more familiar with that than I am. But, like, in general, obviously, you know, whether it be George Washington or Ben Franklin or some of these guys, like, they were strong Freemasons throughout their life. But isn't there also. Isn't there some evidence that they have some, like, attachment to the Vatican and to, like, some of the organized religions, too?

[A]

Yeah, I'm Actually not as versed on this. I try to keep the Vatican's name completely clean and pure. As a Catholic.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Which they've never done anything. No.

[B]

You're still Catholic.

[A]

Yeah, The Vatican's completely fine and is good, but I mean, the Vatican and I mean Catholics and Freemasons have basically gone at each other forever. And that the Catholic Church is like, hey, we're the hegemon of Europe. Like, we control everything. Like, we, we, you know, like, they are massive political players, specifically in this time in Europe. And the Masons are, in a way usurping that. And so the Pope's like, yo, we.

[B]

Got to get rid of these.

[A]

These Masons. That's like the political side of it. There's like a more ideological side that's like the Masons are operating without God and we're with God and that ideologically these people are going against the will of God.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But as far as, like, a direct connection, I don't know exactly. I'm sure there's probably people that are connected, like Popes that were like, allegedly Masons and stuff, but I don't know.

[B]

Can we Google what. What do Freemasons traditionally believe about God? I want to make sure I get this right.

[A]

I've.

[B]

I've read about this before, but it's like, all right, so Freemasons are traditionally required to believe in a supreme being, referred to as the grand architect of the universe. But the specific nature of this deity is left to the individual Mason's personal beliefs and religion. Freemasonry is not a religion itself and does not promote one specific faith, but rather requires members to have a spiritual foundation. Yeah. So I remember, like, the church didn't like that.

[A]

Yeah, Church is like, no, you listen to us.

[B]

Yeah. They're like, you got to read the Christian Catholic Bible. Right. But I think it was in Walter Isaacson's biography of Ben Franklin where, like, he talked about Ben Franklin's view on, like, there being one supreme creator, but he never ascribed to, like, a religion itself. And it was. There were like some Masonic undertones there.

[A]

So I think Ben Franklin was a deity. So this idea of like the watchmaker, that basically, like God put the world in motion but is not active in the day to day, you know, happenings of humans on Earth, that is sort of.

[B]

We got to do that, basically. Yeah.

[A]

We are sort of on our own. Like, God invented every, like, put all emotion into the universe, but then he kind of takes a step back, which kind of goes against typical Christian orthodoxy. Like, no, God is Alive and present and doing things in the day to day. And so deism I think comes out of some Masonic ideals which might be some of the connection. Not to mention Ben Franklin was like a part of a bunch of other secret societies. Yeah. Hellfire Club and he had a few. London. Yeah, it was just like. Which is again why I'm like, yeah, you just go to these groups where like philosophers and economists and smart people of the day are gathering and like porn stars do whatever you want.

[B]

Yeah, there's a lot of that going.

[A]

Yeah, exactly.

[B]

I know he liked that commission mission to France during the revolution. Yeah, send me by land, by boat, whatever the.

[A]

I'll get. No one knows what I'm doing.

[B]

I'm just in Paris alone negotiating war.

[A]

Deals and getting some land and some food tank like that. Exactly.

[B]

No, it's. What was I. Is there any historical, maybe not even historical tie, but like mythological tie between Freemasons and like the Templars? Because we're talking a similarish time period.

[A]

I'd be curious, I don't know if there's a direct connection but I do know that like the Templars were almost operating in a similar way.

[B]

Yeah, well actually the way I just said that is a little prophetic. The connection between Freemasons and the Knights Templar is based on myth and legend, not historical fact. The modern Masonic Templar orders were. Were created in the 18th century to provide a more romantic, romantic Christian themed mythology for Freemasonry. But there is no evidence the original medieval Knights Templar survived emerged with Freemasonry. Not according to Dan Brown. This supposed link was popularized in the 18th century by figures like Chevalier Ramsay and is used to add a layer of historical depth and symbolism to certain Masonic degrees. Not to claim a direct historical image. Well, there you have it.

[A]

Yeah, I mean I think the, the Nazis in ways really pulling from the. The Templars like the Templars like no. Yeah.

[B]

Oh, don't do that.

[A]

Yeah, no, there's like flags and like symbolism of like. I mean old Hity was grabbing from everyone. He was taking a little thing from Hinduism, take a little thing from the Templars. But it's like yeah, everyone I think sort of like romanticized like this because the Templars like mythologically are romantic where it's like, yeah, these guys were a group of Christian warriors that defended Europe during the Crusades. Like that. This is a, a militia force that was standing with God. Yeah. And that's kind of how everyone, every different faction of the world sees themselves. Like the Nazis were like, yes, we're doing God's will. Yeah, they all think they're, you know, I mean, so it's like that same thing. And I think people just take from the Templars to be like, yes, we're going to do God's will and defend our people. Which, as you can see, a lot of Neo Nazis are like, oh, yeah, we're going to defend. We're going to defend Europe. Like, yeah, that sounds nice. And so I think a lot of people romanticize the Templars. And they also had good imagery, you know, I mean. Yeah, all those flags.

[B]

The flags were kind of fire.

[A]

So I think everyone.

[B]

Templars.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Got to be careful.

[A]

Don't, don't. Don't clip now. Don't clip.

[B]

Let's not take that. The next step. It's. No, it's. It's very fascinating. Like, I'd love to be a fly on the wall in the brain of some of the people at the helm of, like, the most evil societies or governments or movements ever created. Just to see, like, how they mentally do the gymnastics, to truly believe that they're Jesus. Like, they're the good guy. Yeah, they're right. And they're actually, like, doing great for humanity. Like, they actually convince themselves.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. It probably comes out of, like, trauma to an extent. Like, I think people are, like, so aggrieved by whatever the circumstances are, and then they hear a very, like, simple explanation that justifies everything. It's like, oh, if we go to war with these people, if we kick out these people, if we genocide these people, then everything will be fixed. That's the only thing stick standing in our way. And they're like, yeah, let's just do it. And I think you can literally take that same. It all comes from that base level of, like, there are real problems that are affecting us and our. Our women are dying, our children are dying, like, we need to do something. And then you just get a slick little thread that can tie everyone up and they're like, yeah, in group out.

[B]

Group, AKA Twitter.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

What are you trying to do with camp, Mark? It's growing like crazy. You've been doing an amazing job for a long time. You're hundreds of hours. Episodes in.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You're obviously very fascinated in the different subject matters that you dig into. You seem like you're a kid in Toys R Us about it. That's a compliment.

[A]

Exactly. You know, I feel.

[B]

Where are you trying to go with this?

[A]

Honestly, I just want to grow. Like, that's like, the only thing. Like, if I can just get more people to join the camp and like be a part of it. Like, that's the only thing. But I'll be honest, like, maybe I need. I need like a more like Alexander the great mentality. Exactly. Because part of me is like, I'm pretty happy with it. I'm stoked. Like, I get to show up every day and like read awesome stuff and like research cool. That like I've always wanted to look into, but I never had the time for. And now I can do it and do it with a bunch of other people. And like after shows, people come up to me like, dude, that episode on on Vishnu was crazy. Like, yeah, dude, that episode on Napoleon blew my mind. That hard ass blunt, dude, that thing you did on remote view, it was insane. Like, to me I'm like, that is so cool that I'm becoming less dumb. Like, and then I can help someone else also be a little bit less dumb. Like, that's the greatest thing ever. So to me it's like, I love religion. I get to explore every different type of religion. Like everything you can imagine. Any type of religious philosophy, I get to actually understand it in like a real way that's not like agendized with like America first or some other that like makes it bad. I'm like, okay, what did they actually feel about this? And then having the comments verify that be like, dude, I'm Hindu and you nailed this. I'm like, oh, sick. And then like the history, it's like, okay, what's everything that's happened? A lot of shit's been going on. I only got here in the 90s. There's, you know, potentially thousands of years before me that I got to figure out. So I get to go through all that and then I get to talk to cool people that know way more than me. Like, it's the greatest thing in the world. Like, I mean, you know how it is. Like there's no greater joy.

[B]

Fun job, right?

[A]

To get paid to like talk to cool people. I mean, like, what a gift.

[B]

Like, I also got this coolest studio in the game.

[A]

Oh, thank you. I appreciate it.

[B]

Amazing.

[A]

I mean, the lighting in here is.

[B]

Pretty nice, but yeah, we're working on it. But it's not a tree house.

[A]

Yeah, that's true, that's true.

[B]

You got to go into mark studio sometime. If you ever get a chance out there. People don't break in.

[A]

Yeah, please don't break in. Yeah, yeah, it's hard to get to.

[B]

You got to go through like comb a lot of security.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. Bridges, tunnels, the whole deal.

[B]

Yeah, he's just got, like, an AK next to him at all times.

[A]

Yeah, we got Navy seals. We got the whole squad.

[B]

Right. Delta Force.

[A]

But it's like, I get to talk to people all day, and I would do this for free. Like, I would legit do it for free. And the fact that there's other people that can get on board and, like, be a part of this mission of being less stupid, learning more about people and cultures and countries and everything, it's like, yeah, there's nothing better.

[B]

Well, I think it's also cool because you get your own lane as well as well, you know, like. Like, you obviously have come up with Andrew and have done flagrant for a long time, and, like, people know you through that, but now they also get to know you, like, in your own interests as well. Yeah, really. And it's. And it's great that, like, Andrew has supported that along 100.

[A]

I think the shows really complement each other because it's like, all right, guys, we're gonna do, like, a fun deep dive on, like, a historical thing, a religious thing, a military thing, whatever. And then on flagrant, it's like, we're just gonna do hot takes of the day. What's happening right now? And how can we call each. Call each other gay? It's like, what is the most unique and clever way I can call you gay? It's like, it's perfect. And the two things, like, they fit so well. And then you can watch a new one every day.

[B]

Yeah. All right, Camp Gagnon.

[A]

Yes, sir.

[B]

We will collab this so you can literally just click below and you'll see the name right there. Go subscribe. Go subscribe to Religion Camp as well.

[A]

History Camp.

[B]

There's the list at channels on Mark's channel when you go to the landing page. So it's got all different content. It's great. And you can catch Mark on flagrant as well. And you can catch them on the road.

[A]

Yes, please do. We got a bunch of dates coming up. You can check out Mark Gagnon Live. Come see me do some standup comedy.

[B]

Excellent. Always fun.

[A]

Thank you, brother.

[B]

Thanks for coming, man.

[A]

I appreciate it.

[B]

All right, everybody else, you know what it is. Give it a thought. Get back to me.

[A]

Peace.

[B]

Thank you guys for watching the episode. If you haven't already, please hit that subscribe button and smash that, like, button on the video. They're both a huge subscribe. Huge help. And if you would like to follow me on Instagram and X, those links are in my description below.