Julian Dorey Podcast #368 Summary

Guest: Gus Gonzalez, cave diver & Dive Talk host
Date: December 23, 2025
Host: Julian Dorey

Overview

This episode dives deep (literally and figuratively) into the world of cave diving. Gus Gonzalez, an experienced technical diver, instructor, explorer, and host of Dive Talk, shares adrenaline-charged stories from the world of underwater caves, explorations in Mexico and beyond, the science and progression of diving skills, the infamous Thai Cave Rescue, myth-busting on dive danger, and reflections on the mysteries and dangers lurking beneath the surface. For anyone fascinated by adventure, science, history, and extreme human experiences, this conversation offers a compelling inside look.

Key Topics & Discussion Points

1. Gus Gonzalez’s Diving Journey and Cave Diving Progression

• Getting Started
  • Gus began diving in 2018, inspired by a trip to Iceland’s Silfra Fissure—where divers can touch two tectonic plates at once.
  • Cave diving came two years later, emphasizing a martial arts-like progression through increasingly advanced certifications.
  • Quote: "If you say that cave diving is like the black belt of diving, then you don’t start at black belt. Right, you have to start at white belt and progress from there." (06:56)
• Early Training
  • Extensive early practice: "My first year of diving, I did 250 dives. That’s like five dives a weekend. Non stop." (22:53)
  • Dry suit certification was crucial for cold environments like Iceland (33°F waters).

2. Science & Safety of Diving

• Dry Suits & Decompression
  • Dry suits keep you dry but require careful handling due to the compressibility of air at depth. Mistakes in air management can lead to rapid, deadly ascents—‘the bends’ (decompression sickness).
  • "If my rebreather stops working... I go into what I was doing before, which is a regular tank. ...That will be my, you know, break in case of emergency." (46:21)
• Tech Diving & Rebreathers
  • Move from open water to technical and rebreather diving is strict and incremental.
  • Rebreathers recycle your breath, allowing dives of up to 12 hours, but add expense, complexity, and training challenges.

3. Misconceptions about Dive Danger

• Dive fatalities often stem from lack of training and breaking basic rules—not from the inherent unpredictability of the environment.
• Gus contrasts the media’s and some divers’ embrace of sensational risk with the reality of methodical preparation and risk management.
• "Cave diving is not for superhumans. It’s just super dangerous." (00:43)

4. Cave Exploration & Notable Expeditions

• Cave Mapping & First Explorations
  • Gus has laid thousands of feet of line in previously unexplored Mexican cave systems, including the cenotes in Cozumel, such as Chunha and El Diablo.
  • "The whole cave is trying to kill you. ...Every rock in the cave is like blades. You touch something, you get cut." (69:40)
• Discovery of Ice Age Skeletons
  • Discussed major finds like the "Ice Age girl"—a 12,000-year-old skeleton found in a Yucatán cave alongside extinct megafauna.
  • "Literally the cast of Ice Age. ...Like a giant sloth with a saber tooth tiger with a mammoth and a girl." (115:58)
• Training & Teamwork
  • Cave diving is intensely team-based; competence means "being an asset to my team... I know that in a lot of ways his life could be depending on me and my skills." (48:02)

5. The Thai Cave Rescue

• Inside Perspective
  • Gus met key rescue team members (Dr. Richard Harris, Rick Stanton), recounting the unheard realities:
    • "The rescuers couldn’t even see. I did a practice run of the rescue process. I blinded myself, bound up my hands and legs, to see what it would feel like." (77:06)
    • Children were anesthetized and carried out for several hours underwater; adults panicked and had to be wrestled out due to lack of sedation.
  • Logistics required individuals with elite cave skills, sometimes without formal certification.
  • "Rick Stanton is perhaps the greatest cave diver in the world—but he’s not a certified cave diver. He learned by doing." (84:36)

6. Handling Close Calls & Mental Strategies

• Gus describes surviving entanglement in 'El Diablo' cave thanks to his buddy Woody.
  • "I got wrapped around line. I couldn’t see anything. I was underwater and I was tied ...like a fish caught in a net. But if nobody would have helped me, I would have potentially eventually drowned." (89:34)
• Training emphasizes keeping calm, stopping, and thinking: "The next move that I’m going to make needs to be forward, needs to be trying to get me out of here." (93:59)
• Panic resistance is part genetic, part trained: While 25% of people may never panic and 25% always will, most can manage anxiety with systematic approaches.

7. Not All Caves Are Death Traps: Debunking Myths

• Most cave passages are not tight, body-squeezing nightmares but huge caverns—sometimes large enough to "drive a bus through" (57:14).
• Properly planned dives, strict safety rules, and following lines/arrows are central to safe cave navigation.

8. Legends, Fatalities, & Diver Memorials

• Stories of Sheck Exley (the "grandfather" of cave diving who wrote its rules and died at 906ft, his body tied to the descent line for recovery) drive home the limits and dangers.
• Many sites—like the Blue Hole of Dahab ('Diver’s Cemetery')—are infamous for leaving unrecovered bodies, with Gus planning to dive sites in Belize where deceased divers remain as reminders.
• "If you underestimate it, people die all the time there. That’s why it’s called Diver Cemetery." (120:51)

9. Underwater Mysteries: Caves, Pyramids, & Sunken Worlds

• Explored flooded mines, multi-entrance private caves, and dreams of one-day diving beneath Budapest or inside partially flooded Nubian/Sudanese pyramids.
• "I would love to go diving in Egypt...If you’re watching, give me a call." (162:25)

10. Environment, Wildlife, and Technology

• Sharks are "not dangerous to divers at all" (137:55), and orcas have never killed a diver in the wild.
• The ocean remains almost entirely unmapped—a vast realm for new discoveries, though cost and inaccessibility limit human exploration.

11. Community, Influence & Dive Talk

• Dive Talk’s mission: to keep it real, public, and educational—sharing successes and failures, unlike hyper-polished, "perfect" channels.
• "We’re not the greatest divers in the world. We make mistakes. ...We did whole episodes about training that we failed." (173:45)
• Gus and Woody’s annual Dive Talk Meetup brings over 100 divers together—now the world’s biggest recreational meetup.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On ice-cold cave diving:
  "Diving in 33 degree water is terrible. ...You would be hypothermic immediately. I don’t know if they can bring you back type of thing." (22:09)
• On cave diving safety:
  "If you get bent, it’s not because you’re a bad diver. ...It’s just an injury you can get from being a diver, just like basketball players hurt their knees." (19:08)
• On cave rescue:
  "I wish I was doing that right now. It’s the best." (65:50)
• On underwater communication:
  "We use wet notes. We write to each other... but most of the communication that we do is with hand signals." (41:20)
• On dealing with fear & tight spaces:
  "Just breathe normal. I can’t move. I’m entangled; I get it. Just wait, Woody’s gonna come at some point." (95:59)
• On sharks:
  "Sharks are awesome. Sharks are not dangerous to divers at all." (137:50)
• On cave exploration:
  "I think until this point, Chunha is the only cave or cenote that has my name on it. ...It’s called Gus’s Labyrinth." (68:24)
• On team and leadership:
  "I want to be an asset to my team. ...That, to me, is important." (48:02)
• On honesty in adventure:
  "People really enjoy the fact we’re willing to admit when we messed up... I want people to learn from what happened to me. ...If you want to ridicule me and say I would have never done that, OK, you’re a better diver than me, that’s OK." (53:00)

Important Segments & Timestamps

• Becoming a Diver & Iceland’s Silfra – (02:12-06:52)
• Dry Suit Tech & Safety – (06:52-13:18)
• Decompression/Bends 101 – (15:12-20:01)
• Training, Skills Progression – (23:00-27:00)
• Cave Diving Certification & Safety – (56:47-63:34)
• Exploring Unmapped Caves – (64:27-69:10)
• El Diablo & Cave Horror Stories – (69:27-73:22)
• Thai Cave Rescue Breakdown – (73:22-85:04)
• Entanglement Survival Story (El Diablo) – (89:34-93:59)
• Sheck Exley & Cave Diver Memorials – (86:07-88:41)
• Blue Hole of Dahab & Diver Deaths – (119:00-122:15)
• Sharks, Orcas, & Ocean Creatures – (137:44-140:49)
• Mapping the Unknown Ocean (Tech, Robots, Roombas Failing) – (129:25-130:08)
• Flooded Mines, Budepest Caves & Pyramids – (158:49-164:33)
• Venezuela Backstory & Immigration – (151:10-156:32)

Tone & Style

• Gus combines scientific precision with adventure storytelling.
• The conversation is candid, entertaining, and occasionally darkly humorous—never shying from the dangers or bizarre moments.
• Both host and guest maintain an open, curious, and myth-busting rapport.

Final Thoughts

This episode showcases cave diving’s allure: a potent cocktail of technical skill, teamwork, cutting-edge science, momentous historical discoveries, and high-risk adventure. Gus’s humility, honesty about danger and mistakes, and clear love for the craft make this not only a masterclass in diving but also a reminder of the value of pursuing challenges outside the comfort zone.

Dive deeper: Find Gus on the Dive Talk YouTube channel, or join their annual Dive Talk Meetup for those looking to progress beyond the surface.

Dive Talk YouTube: [Link]
Instagram: [Link as mentioned by Gus/Julian]
Dive Talk Gear: [Link as mentioned by Gus/Julian]

[End of Summary]