#370 - “WORST to Come!” - Venezuelan on Maduro, Narcos & $17 Trillion Oil Plan | Daniel DiMartino

Summary

Julian Dorey Podcast #370: “WORST to Come!” – Venezuelan on Maduro, Narcos & $17 Trillion Oil Plan | Daniel DiMartino

Date: January 5, 2026
Host: Julian Dorey
Guest: Daniel DiMartino (Venezuelan economist, Ph.D. candidate at Columbia University)

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Episode Overview

This rapid-response episode, recorded just 24 hours after a U.S. Delta Force/CIA raid reportedly captured Venezuelan dictator Nicolás Maduro in Caracas, examines the historical, economic, and political context behind Venezuela’s collapse, its narco-state transformation, and the massive oil stakes at play. Guest Daniel DiMartino, a Venezuelan expat, economist, and activist, breaks down the roots of Venezuela’s crisis, the regime's corruption and links to the global drug trade, the recent U.S. intervention, and prospects for Venezuela’s future. The conversation weaves Daniel's personal and family journey with a rigorous, candid analysis of changing geopolitics.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Venezuela’s Meltdown: Economic, Political, and Social Roots

• Venezuela pre-Chávez enjoyed prosperity as Latin America’s richest country and a relative haven.
• Rise of Hugo Chávez: Elected democratically in 1998 as a socialist, but quickly moved to consolidate power—rewrote the constitution, centralized authority, implemented price controls, and began nationalizing industries (07:40–09:48).
• Early Warnings: Daniel’s family lived a typical middle-class life until hyperinflation, scarcity, and state violence upended everything. Daniel describes how stores went bare, cash became worthless, and people queued for essentials (03:25–04:54).
  • **“Venezuela had more inflation in one year than America had in 250 years of history.” (Daniel, 03:25)
• Personal story: Daniel’s grandparents fled Franco-era Spain to Venezuela in the 1950s, found prosperity, and later lost everything to socialism. Family was forced to sell their remaining assets and scatter (55:10–58:04).

2. How Socialism Destroyed Venezuela

• Economic Collapse: Price controls destroyed incentives; business expropriation led to mass shortages (“Made in socialism” labeled deteriorated goods). Oil windfalls during high prices were squandered (08:36–13:50).
• Violation of Rights: Land and small businesses seized by the military and redistributed; campaigns of fear and mass arrests became tools of rule.
• Hyperinflation and Refugee Crisis: With the state printing money to fund programs, inflation skyrocketed and millions fled.
  • “It's the largest peacetime refugee crisis in human history, not caused by war.” (Daniel, 59:13)
  • Nearly 9 million Venezuelan refugees worldwide as of 2025.

3. Chávez, Cuba, and Authoritarian Playbook

• Cuban Influence: The Castro regime plotted for decades to control oil-rich Venezuela (17:04–17:40). Chávez & Maduro trained in Cuba, learning repression and intelligence strategies.
• Consolidation: Chávez rooted out opposition within the military and judiciary; his charisma helped, but violence and rigged votes kept him in power after legitimacy faded.

4. The Rise of Maduro and the Narco-State (78:29–91:02)

• Maduro’s Path: Chavez’s handpicked successor, originally a bus driver and loyalist, assumed leadership after Chávez’s death in 2013—propped up by other cronies.
• Narco-Trafficking Ties: Both Chávez and Maduro’s regimes facilitated the Colombian FARC in exporting cocaine, taking “fees” and using state resources. Family members of top regime officials were caught trafficking (85:03–87:12).
  • “The U.S. alleges...from the start they were dealing drugs. It just increasingly became true.” (Daniel, 85:27)
• Hezbollah and Terrorism: Drug proceeds helped finance terrorist groups via direct laundering and fake “doctors” sent abroad (34:01–34:26).
• Bribery, Gold, and Dubai: Venezuelan gold reserves were discovered in Dubai after being traced on social media—laundered via prostitution and real estate (98:24–99:46).

5. Life under the Regime: Censorship, Repression, and Scapegoating

• Repression: Secret police “disappear” dissidents, activists, and even TikTok comedians who cross the regime (65:22–66:27).
• Judiciary Subverted: Judges who challenge authority are jailed and tortured (93:12–95:22).
• Religious Co-option: Catholicism resisted but was co-opted and diluted with Santería, as Chavez attempted heretic fusions (62:11–64:24).

6. International Context and U.S. Policy

• Sanctions Myths: Targeted U.S. sanctions against Venezuela’s regime and oil only began in 2018–2019; most of the collapse occurred without international sanctions (35:02–36:30).
  • “There were no sanctions in Venezuela. What are you talking about?” (Daniel, 35:04)
• Why Regime Change?: U.S. action justified by complicity in narcotics & terrorism, human rights atrocities, refugee crisis, and national security. Daniel points out U.S. intervention is overdue given the scale of suffering.

7. The Oil Factor – $17 Trillion in Reserves (105:07–108:19)

• Venezuela’s oil is crucial to U.S. refineries—heavier grade than the Middle East offers (08:09–08:29).
• Trump’s Honesty: Unlike others, Trump publicly admits U.S. interests in Venezuela’s oil. Debate over oil vs. drug rationale for intervention.
  • “You're pointing out that the U.S. wants oil. Why is that a bad thing?” (Daniel, 105:34)
• Propaganda Risks: Julian pushes back on the risk that U.S. motive will be painted as a “cash grab,” fueling anti-American sentiment (105:32–108:19).

8. The Delta Force/CIA Raid and Maduro’s Capture (05:00–06:34, 142:19–143:52)

• The Operation: U.S. special forces captured Maduro and his wife in Caracas; extradited to New York with international footage of a VIP perp walk. Zero U.S. casualties (142:19–143:52).
• Domestic Reaction: Elation among Venezuelans inside and outside the country, but with caution—streets empty pending the opposition’s next move (117:19–117:28). The true power still lies with other regime oligarchs.

9. Transition, Risks & What Comes Next (112:53–126:35)

• Uncertain Power Vacuum: Other regime leaders (e.g., Delsey Rodriguez, Diosdado Cabello) still control key levers via the military and paramilitaries—negotiations with the U.S. are ongoing (132:21–134:23).
  • “The regime still has the operational control of the country. The question is: can Trump pressure Delsey to have a peaceful transition in a matter of months?” (Daniel, 134:28)
• Plan Forward: Daniel suggests peaceful transfer, guarantees that cronies can escape with their loot, and South American peacekeepers (preferably non-U.S., Spanish-speaking) to stabilize the military and purge Cuban agents.
  • “We need the U.S. to pressure...give power to the elected government.” (Daniel, 116:52)
• Opposition’s Capacity: The U.S. sees the current Venezuelan opposition as lacking the force to actually control the military or government apparatus (132:21–134:23).
• Time is Short: Risks that, without sustained pressure, a fake opposition or new dictator will fill the void; urgency for Trump administration to force rapid real change.

10. The Human Cost and Closing Reflections

• Refugees & Dispersed Families: Daniel reflects on how nearly every Venezuelan family has members abroad. Zoom calls on holidays—poignant contrast to regime families together at home (52:47–53:41).
• Torture & Political Prisoners: Testimony on regime brutality, including forced disappearances, torture, and families left with no news (89:12–91:46).
• Warning for America: Daniel draws direct analogies between Venezuela’s seduction by charisma and socialist promises, and current U.S. politics (“we fell for the same trap,” 29:32–30:21).
• Final Note: Both host and guest urge Americans to recognize and resist propaganda from authoritarian powers seeking to destabilize the U.S. from within (161:28–163:16).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Scale of the Economic Collapse:
  “Venezuela had more inflation in one year than America had in 250 years of history.”
  – Daniel DiMartino, 03:25
• On Voting in Hard Times:
  “The average person is just like, oh, this might be better for me to pay my bills. Even though you and I both know it’s not.”
  – Julian, 30:12
• On Chavez’s Takeover:
  “Chavez would walk around the street…Expropiase. Expropriated. It’s not yours anymore.”
  – Daniel, 11:21
• On Denouncing the Propaganda:
  “You're pointing out that the U.S. wants oil. Why is that a bad thing?”
  – Daniel, 105:34
• On Maduro’s Fate:
  “He could go to the same prison as El Chapo.”
  – Daniel, 06:07
• On Socialism’s Unique Destruction in Venezuela:
  “It's the only socialist country that was destroyed democratically, and that was rich before it was destroyed.”
  – Daniel, 58:16
• On Human Suffering:
  “This is their picture, this is ours. And it’s a screenshot of Zoom calls because that’s how we see each other at Christmas, because we’re all living in different countries.”
  – Daniel, 53:33

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Important Timestamps

• Venezuela's descent into hyperinflation and scarcity: 02:47–04:54
• Oil’s pivotal role and refinery sabotage: 08:09–13:50
• Expropriation and destruction of industry: 09:52–13:07
• Chávez's consolidation of power & Cuban influence: 17:04–20:22
• Maduro’s rise, narco links & regime criminality: 78:29–91:02
• U.S. sanctions & myths about whom they hurt: 35:02–36:30
• Delta Force/CIA operation details: 05:00–06:34, 142:19–143:52
• Regime capture & reaction inside Venezuela: 117:19–117:28
• Current power players & negotiations: 132:21–134:23
• Refugee crisis quantified: 59:13–61:08
• Daniel’s final, cautious optimism: 164:03–End

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Tone and Style

The conversation is fast-paced, frank, and deeply personal, blending analytical rigor with unfiltered storytelling. Julian pushes back with big-picture policy and media critiques; Daniel replies with real political economy and lived experience, filtering out ideological bluffs and propaganda.

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Summary Takeaways

• Venezuela’s devastation is a cautionary tale of how democracy and wealth can be consumed by authoritarian populism, cronyism, and failed socialist experiments.
• U.S. intervention is both celebrated and fraught—seen as overdue liberation by refugees and exiles, but introduces new uncertainties in power vacuum and international law.
• The story isn’t over: removing the dictator is only the first step, and the next few months will test whether Venezuela can forge a true transition, reconciliation, and return to freedom.

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For Further Listening or Research

• Investigate the Venezuelan refugee crisis and its impact across Latin America.
• Analyze the methods Cuba used to shape leftist movements in Latin America.
• Examine differences between targeted sanctions and full-blown embargos.
• Compare regime change operations: successes (Panama, Grenada) vs. failures (Iraq, Afghanistan).
• Watch for updates on transition plans and the fate of detained opposition leaders in Venezuela.

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This summary is designed to provide meaningful context for listeners, give direct access to core arguments and personal stories, highlight crucial timestamps, and preserve the candid, engaging language of the discussion.

Transcript

[A]

All right. What percentage of it is about drugs? If you say more than 5%, I don't think I do it.

[B]

Way more than 5%.

[A]

I don't think so.

[B]

I don't think it's all about.

[A]

You think the Venezuelan drug trade is significantly, even remotely comparable because it's not about. To Mexico. You think it's even remotely comparable.

[B]

But the drugs that get to Mexico from here come from Venezuela.

[A]

Some of them do. But, like, Mexico is the problem with that.

[B]

Absolutely, I agree. And I think that the president wants to take a lot of things in Mexico, too. And he already said he offered U.S. troops in the ground in Mexico to the Mexican president. They actually said that this week.

[A]

Interesting.

[B]

Venezuela is different because it's an illegitimate regime.

[A]

It was illegitimate, actually.

[B]

Sponsoring terrorism. That's what the dog money is for. The human rights violations are huge. The migrant crisis that they caused in the United States, Americans have died. Lake and Riley died because of a turnaround or a gang member. So there's a lot of reasons to do this.

[A]

What's up, guys? I just want to give a huge thank you to Daniel for coming in here to do this on Saturday night. So last minute after the invasion happened Saturday morning, obviously I was working the phones that day trying to figure out who we could get in here to be able to cover it and for Daniel to turn around so quickly and get in here Saturday night so we could put the episode out for you guys now on Monday. I really, really appreciate that. If you're not following me on Spotify, please hit that follow button and leave a five star review. They're both a subscribe. Huge, huge, huge help.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

So when I woke up to this invasion this morning, I called my boy Sognik. I was like, you got to have someone for me, right? And he said, yeah, I got this guy, Daniel DeMartino.

[B]

I was like, what the am I.

[A]

Going to do with an Italian? I need a Venezuelan. He's like, no, no, I swear to God, he's Venezuelan. But you got. You got some Italian roots in there.

[B]

There's plenty of Italian Venezuelans. Okay. Including former presidents of Venezuelans unaware of this. Yeah. I mean, where do you think the Italians could go when they were banned from coming to the United States? So they gave. My grandparents from my dad's side are Italian. From my mom's side, they're from Spain.

[A]

No shit.

[B]

And they got to Venezuela in the 50s when they were teenagers.

[A]

Not that long ago.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Not like hundreds of years ago or anything.

[B]

In fact, they lived in Venezuela and They left before they passed away. They left around the time I left, which was 2016. And so, you know, it's a shame, really, because they loved Venezuela. Nobody really wanted to leave. They built their entire lives there. My parents were born and raised there. I was, too. We all lived in the same city in Caracas. We had a great life. And then it went all down the drain. Right. I mean, I had a life similar to what many Americans have when I was a kid. And then I became, like, an African country.

[A]

Yeah. And I don't think people understand, like, the. In the effects of, like, hyperinflation and what that does. And you are actually, like, a Ph.D. almost done. Ph.D. at Columbia in economics. So you quite literally cover this stuff, and you live through it. But, you know, my friend Matt Kiminach, back in the day, I always remembered this quote. He's like, you know, when inflation hits 10, 15%, people's eggs cost a lot of money. They get pissed off. They go on social media. Inflation, if it ever hits, like, 40% or. Or God knows the percentages that hit in Venezuela, I mean, people are in the streets. And that always stuck with me.

[B]

Well, imagine people here were complaining, and everybody remembers very angrily the Jimmy Carter era in the 70s, how when we had over 10 inflation a year in America, we had 10% inflation a week or a day in Venezuela, not per year. Venezuela had more inflation in one year than America had in 250 years of history. So, you know, when. When they left, quite literally, you could not fit enough cash in your wallet to buy anything you could envision of cash in your pocket to buy an empanada. Okay. Have you had an empanada? Like, of course.

[A]

Not as a fucking or an episode.

[B]

And if you had Venezuelan food, but, yeah, you couldn't. So you had to pay everything in debit card or credit card. The problem was that the. The points, like the tech where you tap the card or inserted those were imported. The government controlled the imports. Then they fell apart, and you couldn't replace them. So then none of the technology to pay with card worked, and so you couldn't pay them, so you had to bring bags of cash with you. It's like Germany in the 1920s.

[A]

Yeah. They were burning Deutsche marks for fucking fire.

[B]

Venezuelans make art of the cash.

[A]

Oh, they make art of it. Yeah.

[B]

The refugees in the border with Colombia, they make art. And the cartels, I don't know if you know, but most currencies are made of the same material. It's a special paper. Mm. And so quite Literally, they would money launder, meaning they would clean the print in the paper and they would reprint a different currency.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

For 100% gain.

[A]

Oh, my God. Yeah. There's so much going on.

[B]

I know. I know. We just.

[A]

Yeah, we're going to break it all down. Obviously, people know we're recording this on Saturday night. The podcast is coming out on Monday. This morning, we woke up to news that there was an invasion by the Delta Force from the United States military, along with what sounds like CIA ground branch. We're learning more. More about it in Caracas, where they. They carried out a mission to essentially capture Maduro, who is the president of. The illegitimate president, the dictator of Venezuela, along with his wife. And they have now been extradited here to New York. Didn't you say they just landed?

[B]

They just landed in a helicopter.

[A]

Do we have video? He was looking like Leonardo DiCaprio in one battle after. Wow. There it is with the fucking sunglasses. We got video of this. All right, let's roll this, Steve. All right, so this is at the 34th Street Helicopter Terminal in New York.

[B]

Oh, isn't that where people do the blade thing, The. The private thing to jk? He got VIP treatment. There it is. Vip.

[A]

It's also where they perp walk. Luigi. Where he was looking like he was going to Arkham Asylum.

[B]

Wow. Well, I heard that he could go to the same prison as El Chapo.

[A]

Yeah, well, they're gonna probably take them to the Metropolitan holding center, right?

[B]

Isn't that where Epstein was?

[A]

Yes. Well, there's one. There's one in Brooklyn, and there's one in Manhattan.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So he could go to either one of them. Epstein was at the one in Manhattan where the cameras don't work.

[B]

I see. You know, VIP heliport. Wow. Great treatment.

[A]

Do we have video? Can we skip ahead deep? Do we have video of the actual Maduro getting off? And I don't know if they, like, brought his wife with him. We're just skipping ahead here for a sec. There's a. There's a million people on the ground. Let's go. Oh, yeah, yeah. So he got in a car. It was an armored vehicle. You don't see him, but. Okay, that's good. So essentially, you know, they capture this guy in the invasion. We'll go through everything that happened there, and I want to get, like, the full reaction. I want to get the reaction of people on the ground. You and I were talking about my good friend Christian, who's worked on our team for the last year, who I'M very tight with who lives right there in Venezuela and watched this whole thing live and is obviously he has a lot of thoughts today. He is safe. By the way, everyone, we're all good to go. But before we get all there, I'd love to get like your personal story because you already mentioned you knew a normal Venezuela when you were at least a little kid and then boom, something happened. So in telling your story, I think we can also get a lot of context on what the geopolitical takeover looked like there when Chavez came in.

[B]

Yes. So that, you know, Chavez was elected in December of 98, democratically. Okay. He won. He was a socialist. He won. He reformed the constitution. I was born a month after he got elected, January 99. And at the beginning, the first few years, it was still fine in part because you have to remember Venezuela is an oil producing country. We have the largest oil reserves in the planet. I mean, more than Saudi Arabia. Yeah, it wasn't producing as much as Saudi Arabia, but it was producing three and a half million barrels.

[A]

It's pretty good.

[B]

That's pretty good. Most of it came to the US Refining. The Gulf is the specific type of oil that is actually useful for the U.S. why? Because it's heavy kind and all the refineries in the Gulf coast are designed to refine Venezuelan oil, not light crude from the Middle east or.

[A]

Oh, I don't know anything about this.

[B]

It's actually the specific type of oil we need.

[A]

Interesting.

[B]

So it was very useful. It was a very mutually beneficial relationship. Venezuela was also the country that provided.

[A]

Keep it in Germany like that, that.

[B]

Provided the most oil to the Allies during World War II. I mean, Venezuela has been very crucial geopolitically. And what happened was as Chavez implemented his socialist agenda, and by that I mean he began obviously taking over the country politically, but economically putting price controls on the things that he thought were too expensive. Those things then disappeared from the grocery shelves because the businesses can profit. Why would they sell it? So they stopped selling it. And so I had to line up for eggs and I had to line up for chicken. And then I was in school and, you know, first it starts with like your favorite brand of a product disappears. And then it's like, oh, why is there no milk in the grocery store for a week? That's strange. And then you suddenly had to spend a long time in the grocery store.

[A]

By the way, Daniel, I'm sorry, can you just make sure you have it out in front of you like this rather than like talking over it like that? You Know what I mean?

[B]

Is this better?

[A]

Yes, that's way better. So please continue.

[B]

So. So that. That's what happened with the grocery stores. And then it gets so bad that, for example, you're in school and the teacher says, sorry, class, a friend just texted me, there's chicken in the grocery store next door. I have to go line up before anybody gets there. So class is dismissed.

[A]

Whoa.

[B]

And then, because it wasn't just price controls in the grocery stores, it was. The government took over the companies. They went to the farmers, and they took people's land. There was a very famous case, and I would love if you could pull the picture of this man. His name is Brito. He was the first farmer that really went on a hunger strike for his own private property. He had a family farm that Chavez decided to take over.

[A]

So when he would take it over, is this like your stereotypical. A few military cars pull up and say, this is ours now?

[B]

Oh, yes, it's actually the military. They even went to the Coca Cola can facility, and you had a general opening a Coke can, say, this is mine now. Because they said, we're going to give it to the workers. We're going to hand the power to the people. Right. The people are going to run the businesses. It's like the Soviet Union, like Cuba. I mean, the Cubans were there advising on all of this. I mean, this is part of why this happened. There is Franklin Brito.

[A]

This is the case you're talking about.

[B]

But I would love if you could show him and how. What. How starved he looked. He says, I'm in a hunger strike, asking justice from the international organizations for my human rights because they took my.

[A]

Oh, there he is.

[B]

There he is.

[A]

Wow, There he is.

[B]

And he was a martyr for private property. 2009, that was.

[A]

Did he. Did he die from the hunger strike?

[B]

Yeah, he did.

[A]

Oh, my God. So was he doing that in a prison?

[B]

No, he did that in the street.

[A]

Just in the street.

[B]

He lived in the street. Oh, my God. And then they began arresting people for their property. Of course, it was, you know, not just farms that they took. It was factories. It was little stores. Chavez would walk around the street. There's a famous video of him walking and saying, what's that building? Oh, it's a jewelry store. Expropiase. Expropriated. It's not yours anymore. It's the workers. And it's really. Obviously, that means it's the state, but the workers manage it. But then it goes broke because the government simply doesn't have the Same incentives of the private sector. Right. What does a politician want in life?

[A]

Power.

[B]

They want to be reelected. Right. And what does a businessman, a private.

[A]

Business owner, want to make profits for the business and subsist.

[B]

So if you have those two different goals, if you're in a democracy, to gain power, you don't want to increase your revenue and decrease your cost. You want to increase your cost and decrease your revenue. Why? Because you're going to give things for free to get votes. You're going to hire more workers than you need. Because I created union jobs. Right. And then in the businessman on the other side, they want to maximize profit, so they want to be efficient. Right. But they also want to sell things, increase their sales. So every single thing the government took went broke. They put signs in all the products that they made, big red hearts that said made in socialism.

[A]

Made in socialism.

[B]

That's right. There were signs in the entire country, too, with a heart. Made in socialism. This big public housing that they built with the signature of the President all over its side. And of course, that wasn't your apartment, that was the government's apartment. So if you left and somebody else got in, it's not yours anymore, it's theirs, because nobody can be evicted. In Venezuela, people have a human right to housing, so you can't evict anyone.

[A]

So people have housing, but they have no jobs. Their money's not worth anything. They get no imports. Their economy totally tanks, their quality of life tanks. But they have a roof.

[B]

Well, And Chavez actually got lucky because the oil barrel was at around $10 a barrel in 1999. By 2009, it was $100 a barrel. So imagine your oil revenue multiplies times 10, and it was still not enough to pay for socialist programs. They had to print money, and inflation shot up like crazy. And then when the oil ran out, because they also ran the oil industry to the ground, we literally had explosions in the refineries. Then they ran out of money, and then we had hyperinflation.

[A]

All right, let's take even one more step back for a second. Before you were born.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So Chavez was a guy who was trying to take power for a while. Yes, I believe he was arrested at one point. In 92, he tried to coup. What happened there?

[B]

Well, there was a democratically elected government that took some unpopular measures economically.

[A]

Like what were those?

[B]

They raised the price of gas.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I mean, you can have whatever complain about it, but what Chavez did is do a coup and kill people and bring tanks into the city and planes and bomb it.

[A]

Right.

[B]

He actually killed civilians. He took the government TV station and killed people. I mean, you can say anything about what trump did. Trump didn't kill innocent venezuelans.

[A]

You know, if you're going to do a coup, you got a coup.

[B]

Right. Well, but that's what he did. He failed. And then he went to prison. The problem was that the following president decided to pardon chavez and bring him out of jail.

[A]

Now, why would he. Because in all seriousness, jokes aside, why would he do that to a guy who's proven to be a murderer?

[B]

Because of power Reasons democratic. So caldera, the guy who won the next elections, he won a very closely contested election, four way race. He won with like 33% of the vote against other guys who had like 30, 25 and 20. So anybody could have won.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And caldera, even though he was kind of like a center. Right. Guy, he created a coalition that we call in venezuela the cockroach coalition because it was a ton of little parties that we call cockroaches. They were communist parties, actually. Who. The concession that to get the endorsement of them for this guy who wasn't a communist was you need to pardon all the coup plotters. And so that was his concession to get into office.

[A]

It's like some straight up game of thrones shit.

[B]

Yeah. And, you know, we paid the price for his big mistake. Yes, he pardoned him. And then chavez immediately began campaigning to run for president.

[A]

Now, looking back on it and the, I don't know, the winds and undercurrents of society, what do you think it was in the 90s that pushed whatever it ended up being 30, legitimately. 30, 35, 40% of people to actually believe, like, you know, what Chavez might be the guy. And then, you know, he eventually wins.

[B]

Well, number one, corruption scandals of the previous politicians. It's true they robbed money. Yes, they were corrupt, but that looks like babies in diapers compared to what we have today.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

But yeah, it's true there was corruption, but Venezuela was still the richest country in latin america. I think that context is important.

[A]

By gdp, you're talking by gdp per capita. Yeah.

[B]

There were millions of colombian immigrants in venezuela seeking safety and jobs.

[A]

Right. From millions from the narco wars.

[B]

Of course, Colombia was a hellhole compared to Venezuela in the 90s.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Now it's the opposite. Now there are millions of venezuelans in colombia. Um, it's the. It's like 3 million, actually. So, you know, there were problems of corruption. There was a banking crisis that was very unlucky time that obviously you know.

[A]

Crash in the 90s.

[B]

Yeah. There was a recession, and so that obviously drove a lot of opposition against the current government. And Chavez was able to galvanize it. And I'll say Chavez got a lot of help from the Cubans. The Cubans had a big problem. The Soviet Union fell in 1981 and.

[A]

They began in 1991.

[B]

Yeah. They began what was called the special period in Cuba, which is a fancy term for they were starving to death because they stopped receiving subsidies.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And they needed a new cash cow. And which was this cash cow? The Venezuelan oil. That's what Castro wanted, and he wanted it. Since the 60s, there was an incident that you can look up called the Makuto incident. The Makuto incident, something like that. Yes. Where Cuba tried to invade Venezuela in the 60s.

[A]

Oh, I don't know anything about this.

[B]

The Cubans have been plotting this for decades. They just figured out that it was better to do it peacefully rather than through a coup and an invasion.

[A]

Wow. What was that? But again, so when did Venezuela first discover, ballpark, that they had a ridiculous amount of oil? How many decades ago was that?

[B]

Oh, that was like before World War I.

[A]

Right, so we're talking about.

[B]

Yeah, early 1900s. And then versus only became a democracy in 58. So.

[A]

Wow. So Cuba in the 60s, again, they still had the backing of the Soviets, which is certainly worth noting because that was a powerhouse.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

But they wanted to invade this enormous.

[B]

Country of Macho Culturuto.

[A]

That's Machu Caruta. They wanted to invade this enormous country, comparatively speaking, Venezuela, who already had this cash cow of oil. That almost seems like it would be impossible to do if.

[B]

Well, it was a guerrilla war for a thing. You know, Venezuela was very unstable. It had just become a democracy. There was a lot of guerrilla warfare in Latin America. Leftist guerrillas that Cuba was supporting. I mean, Che Guevara was the leader of it, remember.

[A]

Right, right.

[B]

And so that's really what their strategy was.

[A]

So we have this up. This is the one you were talking about, the Macho Ricuto raid. Am I saying that right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

All right, so the Machu Ricuto raid, also known as the invasion of Macho Ricudo, was a battle involving the Venezuelan army and National Guard troops against Cuban trained gorillas. On May 8, 1967, a dozen guerrillas landed in Venezuela near the coastal town of Macho Churrudo, with one of them drowning. Venezuelan authorities engaged three of them on the night of May 10, and the battle lasted into May 11, killing one and capturing the other two. The remaining eight linked up with guerrillas in the Andes who were attempting to overthrow President Raul Leone. It was a shit show down there. Wow. Okay.

[B]

Yeah. So. So what I'm trying to convey here is that Cuba had a goal of taking over Venezuela for a long time. Fidel Castro did. Fidel Castro trained Hugo Chavez and Maduro. Maduro literally attended trainings in Cuba, like, as a young man.

[A]

Like Scientology, but for communism trainings.

[B]

Yeah, more like for violence, but yes.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And intelligence and, like, how to take over a government, how to establish a dictatorship.

[A]

We're going to get to Maduro in a minute. Because he was like, literally a fucking bus driver. Yeah.

[B]

At the beginning, I'll say. I think people underestimated him. You do not become the dictator of a country being a dumb person.

[A]

Oh, I agree with that. I'm saying. But he literally began as a bus driver and then worked his way all the way up. So it's like, how far back, still a bus driver, when he was doing classes with. With Fidel? I don't know, but let's stay with Chavez for a minute. When did Chavez and Fidel consummate a relationship officially?

[B]

I mean, as soon as he began campaigning, he already was a friend of. Of Castro. And then when he became president, he became the first ally.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Chavez began saying that, you know, Cuba, you know, you couldn't win an election in Venezuela at the beginning, saying that Cuba was not a dictatorship. Right. You're not going to reveal all your cards. The Venezuelan people oppose the Cuban regime.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You know, people didn't think that Chavez was going to become a dictator initially. Only a few people thought that the.

[A]

Guy who did the coup, who was.

[B]

A communist, unfortunately, a lot of people were very dumb. Okay. I mean, my family was not one of the people who voted for Chavez, but even my. My parents didn't think he was going to get this bad. I've asked. I've asked them, and they're like, yeah, you know, we thought it was going to be a terrible leftist government, but we didn't think we were going to have to leave our own country ourselves and that this was going to last 26 years.

[A]

What amazes me about a government like that, and this goes for any place, not just Venezuela, is the fact that, okay, they come in with these ideas, speaking to the common man who might be going through some difficult times and telling them they're going to solve their problems, but then they get in there and the mask comes off and they reveal who they are, and somehow, obviously, they're dictating through fear and pressure and throwing people in the gulags and shit like that. But somehow they're able to generate enough of that fear that people around them, from the military to the government to a lot of the people themselves, decide that it is not possible to overthrow them or disobey them.

[B]

There was an attempt. No, I mean, there were many attempts. I mean, Chavez was couped in 2002 by the military. That was still legitimately in Venezuela's interest. The problem is that they failed. And as soon as they failed, Chavez purged the entire government. A lot of people went into exile. In 2002 and 2003, there was an oil strike. All the oil workers had to leave because they were fired on national tv. That's actually the beginning of the decline of Venezuela's oil industries, that Chavez fired all the engineers. We had no engineers who's going to bring the oil out.

[A]

But let's talk about that purge, though, because this. Maybe I should have made that point a little clear. Yes, over the years, like, there have been a lot of problems. We've talked about all the disputed elections already and things like that. But the fact is, when those things do happen, they fail. Because enough people close around him in a lot of powerful positions decide, even though the Trojan horses opened up and this is their moment to be like, you know what? We're on this side. They go, you know what? We'll stick with this guy. That's what blows my mind.

[B]

And I'll say, especially in the early years, Chavez had a lot of popular support, Even if he began rigging elections and doing a lot of cheating. Maracarina Machado, the current opposition leader, how she became famous is that she was an election integrity activist.

[A]

An election integrity activist, that's right.

[B]

She was the first one sounding the alarm that they were cheating in the elections. And she was right, of course. And so. But Chavez still had maybe 40 plus percent popular support. He was very charismatic. People were totally brainwashed. The problem is that now they figure it out, now that they're starving to death, that they were wrong. The most shocking moment when I see people really change, though, you have to remember the vast majority of the current adult Venezuelan population was not an adult when Chavez got elected. Meaning most people currently today living in Venezuela have no fault of what happened. The overwhelming majority. I mean, I was in my mom's womb when Chavez got elected. I have no fault. I didn't vote for this. So after the rigged election last year, or, well, 2024 now, there was this old lady who was crying in front of a journalist saying, I repent for my choice because I voted for Chavez. She said, and now my grandchildren are starving and my family left the country. And it is my fault, she said, because I belong to a movement of trash. And you know what I thought in that moment? Because I, to be honest, for a long time I had a lot of resentment against those people because it's their fault. Right. But I thought, you know, I totally forgive this woman and I want to hug her and kiss her. But, you know, you can change your mind, but it's too late to change it by boats.

[A]

Yeah. And like, you've had to live through it, and that's why it's really heavy, because, you know, you literally had to leave your own country, you know, broke up your family and. And what you guys had built there.

[B]

But some people don't want to leave their country. You know, Venezuelans never left our country. We welcomed people like my grandparents and we all work together. I mean, you would never want to leave where you are unless there's some drastic thing that happens.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And that's what happened to us. There was a drastic thing.

[A]

Right. If you look at it on a micro level of something that has happened here, to compare it for a second, you just had Zoron get sworn in, who is a democratic socialist, has some extreme policies and stuff like that. But, like, I'm thinking about that old woman you're talking about who's thinking back and regretting her vote. And now I'm also looking at some of the famous videos we've seen of Zoron going and reaching voters who had voted for Trump. Have you seen some of these?

[B]

Yes, I have.

[A]

So obviously it's been tried over and over again throughout human history. Socialist policies don't work.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

The average person working their job, trying to pay their bills in an economy that is not serving the people of the middle class and the lower class in this country at this point. You know, I'm not, I'm not saying you shouldn't be aware of everything going on or whatever, but they're voting on the 1, 2, or 3 most important things in their lives. And numero unros, can I pay my bills?

[B]

That's right.

[A]

And so when you have a candidate, unlike Andrew Cuomo, who couldn't be bothered to get out of his fucking black car, of course, for an interview, let alone go actually talk to a voter.

[B]

And with a terrible background of what he did on a terrible governor, I mean, of course, yeah, I won't speak well, about him.

[A]

Yeah. But like, when you compare that with a guy like Zoran who quite literally rolled up his sleeves, went out into these neighborhoods, and instead of, you know, you can think the guy's fake as hell. And I certainly think he is a political kind of fake, snakey guy. But, like, he went and talked to these people eye to eye, did not judge them for voting for Trump. He asked them why and they, and they said, well, I can pay my bills more with this. And then he tells them some policy ideas he have that you and I both know don't work because they're, they're very socialist. But the average person who might not be thinking about this stuff or be as well versed because they're more worried about the important things in their life, they hear that and they go, oh, so I can get more money in my pocket. Great.

[B]

Julian, what happened with Mamdani and Cuomo is almost the same as the first Chavez election.

[A]

Yeah, that's why.

[B]

That's why I thought the difference is that, I mean, Mamdani doesn't have the capacity to do to New York City what Chavez did to Venezuela. But I can tell you, I think he would love to. This is why he came out with a statement today in support of Maduro. I mean, this is somebody. Yeah, I mean, this is somebody who says he wants to arrest Netanyahu. And when we arrest an actual foreign leader that's indicted with a crime here in the United States, he's like, oh, that's unfair. That's intervention. Give me a break. Like, he just doesn't like the Jews and he loves Maduro. I mean, that's how he interpreted.

[A]

He's picking and choosing.

[B]

It's very obvious. So. And you know, he wasn't even willing to call Trump, sorry, Maduro, a dictator. In his podcast with Jorge Ramos, the Democrat. The Democrat journalist.

[A]

Oh, he wasn't.

[B]

Yeah, of course not. You can look it up. Put Jorge Ramos and sort of. It was an amazing video because Jorge is on the left, but I admire Jorge because Jorge went to Venezuela face Maduro. And it was such a tough interview.

[A]

That Maduro arrested Jorge in 2019, right?

[B]

Yeah, I think so. And, and so, you know, Jorge is a great journalist and he stands for freedom in Venezuela, too, and Cuba. And he asked him point blank, you know, are they dictators? And he's like, you know, he couldn't say it. He couldn't say it.

[A]

That's so strange.

[B]

No, it is not. It's because he does not think so, Julian. It's because he's so ideologically committed. Like the Democratic Socialists of America. Did you know that dsa, the democratic sources of America, where Mamdani belongs to, they go to Venezuela every year. They just. Oh, they just went. In the 2024 election, the rigged one, they wondered to celebrate with Malora. They were greeted by the dictator themselves, the one that is now New York City indicted.

[A]

What's the name of this group?

[B]

The dsa. So the literal American citizens going to Venezuela to celebrate with this narco terrorist dictator.

[A]

That's wild.

[B]

You should look up DSA Venezuela. See what they've said. See the picture. They've been greeted in the Venezuelan presidential palace.

[A]

Yeah. Daniel. When I say it's strange, by the way, I say it's just so strange because it can't process. To me, it doesn't surprise me. I know that he's saying that. You know what I mean? It's like.

[B]

Wow, so. So this is where he comes from. And that is my fear. But, you know, obviously he's mayor, not president, but. But the comparison was. The Venezuelan people fell for the same trap. Yeah, we fell for the same trap.

[A]

That's what I'm saying. With the comparison to the old woman, though, I'm like, I. I'm glad that you forgive her and stuff like that. But I understand also that there's people like, what the. How could people vote this in?

[B]

But.

[A]

But I have now seen live on a micro scale how it happens when good and honest people are doing that and they're not doing it because they're trying to have some fudgeing communist revolution. Necessarily. Right. There's a small subset that obviously is.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But like, the average person is just like, oh, this might be better for me to pay my bills. Even though you and I both know it's not. And that is such a hard. Oh, it's a tough.

[B]

And the charisma. It's all about the charisma. People really vote based on how much they like a politician.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, unfortunately, the average voter isn't as, you know, informed or intelligent about it. It's about the vibes.

[A]

Sure. What were your parents at the time? Like in 98, when you were in the womb and this guy was getting elected? What were your parents official political stances? Did they belong to a party? Obviously they weren't communists, but, you know.

[B]

No, I mean, they voted. They didn't. They were not voters in every election. They've told me that they don't vote in every election, but they tended to vote in every presidential election. But not all.

[A]

And what did your parents do?

[B]

They. Well, by, by around that time, my mom had graduated college a few years earlier, same as my dad. They were young, in their 20s, and my mom worked as an administrator in a bank. And then my dad and her were just opening a gas station, which was our business. That's what we did for a living.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Kind of funny, in an old producing country, we had a gas station.

[A]

I was gonna say, like, it's right there. You just fucking put the hose.

[B]

It was a British Petroleum gas station, bp, that the government then took, by the way.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And we became like state employees essentially living off of subsidies.

[A]

Now I held that question in earlier because there was a lot going on, but you were talking about specifically the period of like 0203 after the first initial coup and then or coup attempt and then Chavez goes in and officially like nationalizes all the oil refineries and things like that. We are talking about companies though, like bp, like Exxon, the huge multinationals from all different countries around the world that serve, you know, a ton of countries around the world. And effectively they had an enormous cash cow here that they were partnered in in Venezuela. And overnight the suits were kicked out on a plane.

[B]

And by the way, not just the oil companies, many glass producing companies, many food companies, many tires. Michelin was there. I mean, Goodyear, like so many American companies were there. What's the name of the trucking company, the American farming trucks? John Deere.

[A]

Oh, John Deere was John Deere.

[B]

I mean all the American companies were.

[A]

There and they just sent them. They, they told the American executives.

[B]

They took over their property and then didn't pay them. But they didn't just do that to the American companies. Oh yeah, to the Venezuelans, of course. They did that to everyone. Well, not the Chinese and the Russians and the Iranians.

[A]

They came in, they made a little.

[B]

Oh yeah, they came in.

[A]

Interesting.

[B]

Oh yeah. The, the Chinese and the Iranian and the Russian state owned oil companies are extracting oil in Venezuela right now for free.

[A]

For free.

[B]

Of course. They don't pay anything. They just take all the oil for free.

[A]

How does that make any sense from a business perspective? For the country, for, for Maduro, it's.

[B]

Great because he gets political support and intelligence and.

[A]

Yeah, so he's just tr. It's all right. So they're doing it for free in that the people of Venezuela don't get any money because the oil's.

[B]

No, they don't pay taxes.

[A]

But Maduro's getting a lot of benefits for his Power structure.

[B]

Of course, what the Cubans get for the free oil or give to Maduro is that they control the entire intelligence apparatus. They tap the communications. They keep the Venezuelan military in check. And it's.

[A]

How do they do that?

[B]

Well, by tapping the communications and having a Cuban officer in every military unit. A foreign Cuban officer, never Venezuela military unit. It's just to keep people, to make sure they're not betraying anyone.

[A]

Wow, that goes deep.

[B]

You know that. Have you heard of the Cuban doctors program? That they send doctors around the world? It's like a humanitarian thing. No, they're not doctors. That's the problem. They're spies. I mean, some of them are doctors, to be fair, and they're victims. And some of them try to escape when they're sitting in another country. And they're good people, but most of them are spies. And that's why Cuba sends these doctors for free to other countries.

[A]

Now, when. When they took over all these businesses, though, multinationals in 0203, the United States and many countries around the world, I believe. But let's focus on the US because that's who's at the heart of this right now.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Put a lot of sanctions on the country.

[B]

Well, no, not sanctions only came in. The only sanctions that existed in Venezuela for most of its history were against Chavez himself. Like, they took his bank account.

[A]

So they didn't.

[B]

The only sanction on the state, entire state came on in 2018 and 2019 under the Trump administration.

[A]

So they hadn't sanctioned. I didn't know that.

[B]

So this is a myth that the left, especially the dsa, tries to push that. Oh, it's all because of the American sanctions. There were no sanctions in Venezuela. What are you talking about? There? They took the bank accounts of some leaders. Yes. Under the Obama administration. That was great. We take the bank accounts of O. Chapagus man when he's indicted in the United States. I mean, there were entire buildings in Manhattan and Miami that were owned by Venezuelan cronies. Entire buildings. And so that was, of course, not gonna fly. But that's not a sanction on Venezuela.

[A]

That's kind of wild, though, that, like, obviously they were controlling a lot of different companies from a lot of different countries as well. But of course, there were a ton of American. Huge multinationals there who have enormous government connection, big parts of our GDP and everything. Chavez goes in and just kicks them out, cuts a whole piece of their revenue overnight. And we didn't sanction them.

[B]

That was in the early 2000s. President Bush didn't impose any sanctions over the Venezuelan oil.

[A]

I would have thought he would have cared about that of all people.

[B]

You know what I mean? No, he loved a good. By that time, there were a lot of problems in Congress that Bush had in 2006. And with Iraq, that was not the focus.

[A]

Yeah, but 0203.

[B]

But that was not when the nationalization happened. It was a little later. It was a little later, 2006, 2007.

[A]

So it was a timing thing. And then it just kind of got the buck, got passed for a lot of years. And Venezuela, then the Great Recession happened here. Yes.

[B]

So no, they just didn't want to get in trouble. No, the real sanctions came because of the human rights violation against protesters. And they were sanctions against individuals in Venezuela, meaning their bank accounts, their traveling privileges. They couldn't come to the US or to the eu. That's it.

[A]

Right.

[B]

The sanctions against, for example, the sanction. Like the US didn't. The US stopped importing Venezuelan oil. That was 2018 and 2019. The US and by then also, Venezuela was producing like only half a million barrels of oil. It wasn't even producing very many because the regime had destroyed the oil industry already. So it wasn't even a big impact. Venezuela was selling all its oil to China anyway. Right, so for free. Yeah, exactly. Selling, you know, it's like a loan and giving it to. For free to like Caribbean islands to bribe them for the votes of the United nations and other organizations. That's why a lot of the other tiny countries were super supportive of Chavez, because they were all getting paid now that they run out of money. You see all these islands saying, please, thank you, Donald Trump, we love you. Right. Because there's no more money.

[A]

Hey, guys, if you haven't already subscribed, please take one second and hit that subscribe button. Thank you.

[B]

What was.

[A]

So when did. Before I even look at your perspective, because you're a little boy during some of this, even at the beginning, obviously. When did your parents start to realize, oh, fuck, like, this is bad, bad?

[B]

Well, actually, my dad wanted to move out of Venezuela. Right. In 2002, early. He wanted to go to Spain. That's what he told us. And then my mom didn't want to for actually cultural reasons. She just didn't. She tells me she just didn't want to raise me in Spain. She thought they were too liberal. So they're like, no, we'd rather stay in Venezuela. It's more safe, conservative. Yeah. And so that's, that's the reason that we didn't move to Spain in 2002.

[A]

But they saw it. They were. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Especially my dad. Yeah, yeah. And then they didn't really want to leave anymore. And I'm the one who pushed them to leave. I left first. I left in the summer of 2016 because I got a scholarship to come to college. I really wanted to live. I was 17. We finished high school at 17, skipped through 11 in Venezuela. And so since I was young. So I'm crazy. Okay. When I was 12, I was reading Milton Friedman. Oh, I read Free to Choose when I was 12.

[A]

What made you do that?

[B]

Well, I was seeing inflation shortages around me.

[A]

So you went at 12? You had you understood what inflation was? Of course, yeah.

[B]

It was in my school cafeteria.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I couldn't pay for things like this was very clear in our lives, you know, And. And, you know. Yeah. I mean, I was somebody that was interested in these topics and so I wanted to learn about economics. I went to my school library and I looked in the economic section and I found this book, Libre de la Here Free to Choose. And I picked it up and it's just like a guts. And then that took me down the rabbit hole. I began like watching YouTube videos of Ronald Reagan and Margaret that I became obsessed with the United States.

[A]

Wait a minute.

[B]

I was watching like the 2012 presidential debate of Romney versus Obama in Venezuela, like super anti Obama when I was a kid.

[A]

Wait a second. Before. There's a lot on them. How did you. They let Milton Friedman books in your library at school?

[B]

Yeah, there was.

[A]

The government allowed that.

[B]

There wasn't that. Well, first, I wasn't in a government school. I was in a private school.

[A]

But either way, the government, I would have thought, has all control education.

[B]

Certainly the government schools, but not in the private schools.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Most private schools in Venezuela are run by the Catholic Church.

[A]

And you.

[B]

Not mine. But most were.

[A]

You could get free unfettered access to YouTube.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Interesting. So they had.

[B]

Well, not anymore. Now they have censored X.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You have to understand, these are not Chinese communists. They're not as competent. So they were not able to censor the Internet yet. They wanted to. They really wanted to. They took the TV channels, they took the radio stations, but they didn't take the Internet. Actually, that's why I opened a Twitter account when I was 12 years old. You are not actually allowed to do it until you're 13. So when I had to tell the truth to X about my age, they suspended me and I had to wait for a permission. The reason I Did it? I opened a Twitter account as a kid. Not because I cared about social media. I was reading. I was reading information news because I couldn't get. And get the real news on tv.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So it was like an information mechanism. Venezuela was one of the countries with the highest rate of its population on X on Twitter because of that.

[A]

Now what? So obviously, this ended up turning into what became lifelong aspirations, and you turned it into a career with going to become an economist in this country and everything, but, like Milton Friedman. And reading that book, what was the name of it again?

[B]

Free to choose. I highly recommend that it's free online. You can find a PDF.

[A]

What? I mean, it's just amazing that at 12, you had a grasp of this. What about that book really caught you. Besides, like, hey, inflation's really bad.

[B]

Well, what caught me is that he talked about how other socialist countries were destroyed. The Soviet Union and Cuba specifically. And this was written in the 80s or late 70s. And so I thought, oh, my God, what's happened to Cuba and the USSR is exactly what I'm going through. This country's gonna starve to death. We're gonna die if we don't live. And so that's when I'm like, I need to excel because I need to get the hell out of here.

[A]

Did you tell your parents about the book when you read it?

[B]

Yes, of course.

[A]

What'd they say?

[B]

Oh, yeah. Well, they just didn't think that it was gonna get that bad. And I'm like, no, they still didn't think that. Yeah. No, no. I'm like, no, Chavez is gonna leave. Of course we're gonna. And I'm like, no, we need to leave the country.

[A]

How many years are between the presidential elections again?

[B]

Well, it used to be 5 without re election. Before Chavez, you had to wait out of term. Now, then it became six with re.

[A]

Election, but at the time, it was five.

[B]

Well, when I lived, it was six.

[A]

Okay, so either way, five or six, Chavez won a couple reelections, right? He won one or two.

[B]

So first election 98. Then he rewrote the constitution. So there was a new election in 2000, and then that was until 2006.

[A]

Wait, why did he rewrite it? So that there'd be an election in 2000.

[B]

He rewrote it to extend the presidential term. To concentrate power in the presidency. Abolish the Senate, allow for enabling acts. Have you heard of an enabling act?

[A]

I know that term.

[B]

Every dictator uses that Enabling Act. It's essentially Congress passing a law saying, we relinquish Our legislative authority, the president can pass all laws.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So they did that. Yeah, Hitler did that. Actually, the Nazis passed in Abelina all the time.

[A]

That didn't turn out too well.

[B]

And actually Hitler also tried to do a coup, went to jail and then.

[A]

Right.

[B]

The beer hall push elections very similar to Chavez.

[A]

Wow, that's very interesting. Yeah. I always joke that, like the far left and far right are just so close to each other on the circle that they hate each other.

[B]

Why do you think Tucker Carlson is pricing Maduro and all these people here.

[A]

In the U.S. yeah, I don't know. I don't know. So I've watched the videos of Tucker talking about it. I think he's being careless about this one in particularly. I think he's just so off at the people that have attacked him that he's. That he is at least pointing out a couple things. I don't think he's supporting the guy. I think he's trying to ask questions and we'll talk about this later. I don't want to get to this yet. I think he's trying to ask questions about what makes specific places ripe for regime change over other places. When we've seen regime changes not work out well because we, the US have not managed them well at all throughout the course of the last 60, 70 years.

[B]

I think there's been many good ones too.

[A]

In that you think there's been good.

[B]

Regime changes that the US Panama, 1989, Granada 1983.

[A]

These are. Respectfully though, these are countries that are next to Venezuela, but they're also extremely small, far less important. Panama. There's some arguments to make.

[B]

No, but Grenada is an island. Sure, but yeah, but you said regime change and I just mentioned two very successful cases.

[A]

But like you talk about Iran, you talk about countries.

[B]

Iran, we didn't do regime change, unfortunately.

[A]

Well, we set up that regime there in 1954. That was.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

And that was. That was like our making that that ended up happening.

[B]

You know, it's a shame that it ended, but it was a great thing before the Islamic regime.

[A]

We, Comparatively speaking, for sure.

[B]

I mean, for sure. You know, it was amazing. Relative to what?

[A]

For sure. Comparatively speaking, for sure. But I'm saying, like there have been all kinds of issues with the United States managing the aftermath of these things. Of course, people have a horrible taste in their mouth from Iraq, which was.

[B]

Iraq was a mess. And Afghanistan. I agree.

[A]

Which. Those were both disasters to the nth degree. And these are the.

[B]

And I think that that's the, the real issue but, but, but there have been many good cases. I mean, even Germany and Korea and Japan were all US Regime changes and occupations.

[A]

Sure, long time ago. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, but long time ago. This is a long time ago. And you're looking at the totally new generations dealing with it. So that's why that stuff comes up. But like, there's not. You can't look at a guy like Maduro and say, wow, he's a good leader or a good guy or someone that's good for a country. Of course he's not. It'd be the same thing as like looking at Saddam dumb and being like.

[B]

You know, he's a good option, evil man.

[A]

Yes. It's like these things, you should be able to hold those two thoughts.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

At the same time for sure. And I hate to see like some of this back and forth with all these political person or even things like.

[B]

Oh, it's about international law. Like, you know, first, international law, it tends to be fake. The US didn't sign any pac. International law does not apply in the United States. We're not part of any agreement and only matters is the U. S. Constitution. The Supreme Court does not. We're not part of agreements which agreement forces us not to do whatever. We didn't sign most conventions. Even the Human Rights Convention is not signed by the United States.

[A]

Oh, I didn't know that.

[B]

Yeah. The U.S. is not.

[A]

We didn't sign the Geneva Conventions.

[B]

Well, I think that you mean. If you mean war crimes and all that, yes.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But not the Human Rights Convention.

[A]

Yeah, well, I, and I think that's where people get pissed off because like, the UN is a mess of an organization for sure. But there's all kinds of like, loopholes that get used there that then defeat the purpose.

[B]

Countries are dictatorships and they're going to lecture us about this like the Human Rights Council formed by like Saudi Arabia, North Korea.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Give me a break. It's hypocritical.

[A]

It's hypocritical for sure. It's just like, I think the term international law is such a loaded term in general.

[B]

We can talk about what's right. I think that that's important. What do you mean? You know, like, rather than saying, oh, is this in accordance with international law? Is, is this in the interest of the US Is this a good measure for other reasons? Is this in the interest of the people? Is this advancing human rights? If you care about human rights. But you know, I don't like getting into the legality as much either.

[A]

It's not a matter of like.

[B]

And if we go into the legality, to be fair, like, if you want to talk about that, like, Maduro was lawfully indicted by US Tribunal. The president is the law enforcement. Wait, a tribunal? A jury.

[A]

Right, right, right. Grand jury.

[B]

Yeah, a grand jury. There's an active indictment for six years now, same as all the members of his regime. The US President is the law enforcement branch of the US Government, and the president just arrested a criminal and brought him to justice. That's literally the job of the executive.

[A]

Yes. It gets a little complicated when that person is. Even though I think, and I think there's tremendous evidence for this, he's illegitimate because he lost that election in 2024. But when another country has that person still technically recognized as in charge of their country, and you go in, oh, right.

[B]

To said, well, then we do not recognize them. Right.

[A]

It's a, it's, it's a little hazy, though.

[B]

It's important to say we, it's not only that we do not recognize him, it's that not even the Biden administration recognized the president.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

So it's like saying we arrest a Muslim terrorist in the Middle East.

[A]

I don't know if it's quite the same.

[B]

I mean, legally, that's the argument that the Trump administration is saying. And that is going to be done in the courts.

[A]

Yes, I see what you're saying. I just. Whenever you go to do something like this, not that it's even totally possible, but you want to try to bulletproof every possible argument that could happen against it, and I'm not sure this is so fresh right now. My opinion is still open.

[B]

But think, think about it. Afghanistan now, like the Taliban rule Afghanistan. So is the leader of the Taliban not a terrorist anymore? Is he the president of Afghanistan now? So, you know, is he not.

[A]

No, you know, it's a vet. It's a val.

[B]

If we just put you on a suit and tell you you're president, rather than the atmood, you know, whatever of isis, you are still isis.

[A]

But then we see the hypocrisy with that. When you got the fucking federal government playing pickup basketball with the, with the leader of Syria, who's literally a fucking.

[B]

I agree, I agree. Though I'll say he was recognized, like, legally. And Congress, you know, is going, yeah, why?

[A]

That's what I'm saying. What's so useful about him?

[B]

I don't know. I, I really can't speak. I, I would say I think He's a terrorist. It's kind of like in the series, like everybody's a bad guy. That's very common in the Middle East.

[A]

Yeah, there's, there's, there's a lot of issues for sure, with any leadership vacuums over there. I agree, it's just like, it's a little weird. But let. We're going to get to the actual semantics of that later and, and dig into that some more. In the meantime, you were talking about when you were 12, and you first actually get aware of like, oh my God, there's other ways to do economies here. And you're like, I gotta leave. So you tell your parents at 12, I gotta figure out how to get out of here. You end up getting into US college at 17. So you're able to, I guess, secure a visa.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

And leave. That's another thing. And again, this is. I'm a total outsider, so some of this, these might be stupid questions for you, but I would think that in Venezuela they're like, not letting Venezuelans try to apply.

[B]

Venezuela was not like Cuba. Venezuela did not yet have a system of prohibiting people to leave, in part because Venezuela was not an island. How are they gonna stop you from living? You're just gonna cross the land border to Colombia and if they don't allow you to leave, you'll just get sneaked out. That's what people do and they just walk. You know, when Chavez was running for office, the people who defended him used to say that, you know, Venezuela is not like Cuba. We're not an island. We have oil. We're a democracy. We can never become like Cuba, a.

[A]

Democracy with fake elections.

[B]

That's what we became. But like that being a democracy doesn't protect you from becoming a dictator.

[A]

For sure.

[B]

You can vote a dictator in clearly, like many countries have done so. But those people were right of only one of the three things. We were not an island. And so we can walk, we don't need to swim. And that's why there's actually a great Nat Geo documentary with a comedian that leads it. It's called the Walkers. It's almost like the Walking Dead. It's very sad.

[A]

No shit.

[B]

But he walks with the Venezuelan migrants thousands of miles because they go all the way from Venezuela down to Chile, through Peru, Colombia, the Andean mountains.

[A]

If they get caught on the walk or they.

[B]

No, they're fine. They're fine as soon as they leave Venezuela. The other countries don't persecute?

[A]

No, not the other countries. If they're caught by the Venezuelans?

[B]

No, they're just extorted for money by the police, same as the Mexicans do. To be honest, the Mexicans do that too to people in the border.

[A]

So you and I think you were telling me, like, 9 million Venezuelans have left over what period of time?

[B]

The last 10, 15 years? It's nearly a third of the population.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

So every family has somebody who left, if not entire families who left. There are empty buildings, empty homes everywhere because obviously that's what happens when a third of the population leaves.

[A]

Right.

[B]

It's tragic. You know, this past Christmas, there was the picture of the second in command after Maduro di Ostao Cabello. He's one of the biggest thugs indicted to. He has the second highest reward for his capture. And he was hugging all of his family for Christmas. And he posted the photo, celebrating, and the Venezuelan people were like, kind of like criticizing him resentfully. This is their picture, this is ours. And it's a screenshot of zoom calls because that's how we see each other in Christmas, because we're all living in different countries.

[A]

Wow, that's heavy.

[B]

That's very heavy. This is them hugging each other. This is us in video calls.

[A]

What did your parents say once you had had the opportunity to be accepted to college? And you're like, oh, I can leave. Were you trying to convince them, like, you leave with me now, too?

[B]

Well, no, they couldn't come here. And also, like, they don't speak English. But they were very, very happy for me. And then that's when I began pushing them, like, you need to leave. And they, you know, especially because I knew a lot more people were about to leave Venezuela because things were going to get dire economically very quickly, and they were. So they needed to sell their assets before they run all their value so that they could live with something. Right. And so they, they, they did and they left a year later and they went to Spain.

[A]

What did they. I like, I guess the home they lived in. Like, what kind of assets were they able to sell?

[B]

A car or. Nor apartment. And then everything inside her house. Right. At this point, couch or bed.

[A]

Do people even have investment accounts at this point?

[B]

Oh, people, no. Right. Investment accounts don't even know that.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. So. And where did they go again?

[B]

Spain.

[A]

They went to Spain?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay, so you go to the U.S. they go to Spain. Did you have siblings as well?

[B]

No, I'm on. Only child. My grandparents left with my parents. Then I had the chance to go to Spain and visit them. And it was very beautiful because my grandpa, the Spanish one. So my mom's dad, he was. His father died in the Spanish Civil war in the 1930s.

[A]

The Franco stuff.

[B]

Yeah. And he fought, he got drafted. So many millions of dollars. My grandpa never even met him. He was born the year he died in the war, in 36. And that's the year it began. And so my great grandmother remarried and then had six more kids. My granddad had a great stepdad, but he was the oldest child. And in 1956, when he was 19, about to turn 20, the economy was really bad under Franco, really, for the first 20 years. Franco was actually a very isolationist, autarkic economy. For a long time, Spain was very poor. Rationing, food, all that. And so my grandpa went to Venezuela to send remittances back to Spain. He sent half of his income to Venezuela for over a decade. And then he kept sending money. And I went to Spain and I saw my grandpa reunite with all his half siblings, who they love him to death because, I mean, everybody was maintained by this guy who they never met, who lived in Venezuela. And then I did the way of St. James with my mom a year and a half ago in Spain. It's a Catholic pilgrimage in the region where Spain, where my grandparents are from. And we did it from my great grandmother's apartment. It started there, right outside their doorstep. Just very beautiful coincidence. And I was going through the things in my great grandma. She obviously passed away many years ago, but the family still owns the place. Very, very old place. And I. Oh, there it is. So we did it from Orense. That is where my grandpa and my grandma were from. There's many ways of St. James, but it's all to Santiago. That's where the apostle St. James is. Well, I did the minimum legally allowed to get the certificate, which is 100 kilometers. I did 110. That's like 70 miles.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Four days. I should have done it in five.

[A]

You're walking me and my mom.

[B]

But, man, I found all the letters that my grandpa had sent from Venezuela since 1956 to his mom. And I found the first letter, February 1956, and it was in Spanish, and it said something like, you know, I arrived to the port of La Guayram. I'm all great. Caracas is such a great city. There's lights everywhere. I got in a car and I could see everything. I have more food than I could have ever dreamed of of. That was his reaction to Venezuela, his first letter. That's what was Venezuela was like.

[A]

So he saw it for the whole.

[B]

Oh yes. He saw everything. It was so heartbreaking for him.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Imagine coming in as a 19 year old and living as an 80 year old.

[A]

I can't. And leaving.

[B]

And he died in the pandemic in Spain.

[A]

Oh, I'm sorry to hear that, man.

[B]

I know, I know.

[A]

I can't imagine that trajectory because you're seeing it go the opposite way. It starts beautiful, ends dark, and then you leave and live somewhere else.

[B]

What's relevant about Venezuela more than any other socialist country is that it's the only socialist country that was destroyed democratically and that was rich before it was destroyed. Think about this. The Soviet Union. Before the Soviet Union, the Russian Empire. The Russian Empire was the poorest country in Europe. It was a hellhole dictatorship. Terrible. I mean, the tsars were no angels. China before Mao, poor as hell.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You know, dictatorship too. Cuba before Castro, he was better off. But Batista was a dictator too. Eastern Europe, destroyed by World War II. They were invaded. Right. They didn't vote the communists in in Poland or in the Czech Republic or in Hungary. They were taken over by the Soviets. The Venezuelan people were duped by socialist politicians and they destroyed us. The largest refugee crisis in the planet is Venezuela.

[A]

Really?

[B]

There are more Venezuelan refugees than Ukrainian or Syrian refugees.

[A]

Really?

[B]

It's the largest refugee crisis.

[A]

What's the. What's the current number?

[B]

It's nearly 9 million. There's fewer than 8 million Ukrainian refugees. And there's no war, there's no chemical weapons.

[A]

Over a ten year period. Okay, so over a rolling ten year period. Got it.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

That's more than Ukraine.

[B]

That's more than Ukraine. Look up the number. This is a UN thing. Wow. There's even a Wikipedia list of refugee crisis. It's the largest peacetime refugee crisis in human history. Not caused by a war, only like World War II. World War I, like the Pakistani and Bangladeshi wars of independence are larger because, you know, like a billion people living India on the sub. Indian continent.

[A]

Wow. Yeah. Do we have a ranking? Yeah, let's find.

[B]

Put it up. Largest recorded refugee crisis in the Americas. If you put. There it is just if you sc. Largest recorded refugee crisis. Yep, there.

[A]

The Venezuelan refugee crisis.

[B]

Largest one in the world after World War II, Partition of India, World War I and Mangalore.

[A]

So there it is. The Russian invasion of Ukraine is at 7 million versus 8.9. Versus 8.9. Now Ukraine's only had three years for that to happen.

[B]

True. But they were invaded and half a third of their country was taken over by A foreign army.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

They're being bombed.

[A]

This is crazy.

[B]

There are no bombs falling in Venezuela.

[A]

The fact that this is even close, let alone the fact that Venezuela still has an advantage and that's not a good thing.

[B]

And our pre crisis population also was smaller than Ukraine's.

[A]

So the percentages, it's much per capita, if you will.

[B]

And Ukrainians have a much easier time leaving their country than we do do. They're much richer. They have trains. The entire EU said welcome, come, anybody can come. You have free train tickets to leave. We don't have that. If anything, other countries are trying to not welcome us.

[A]

So there haven't. Were there. Obviously Chavez and Maduro are locking out outside organizations from coming in and things like that. That makes sense of course. But like outside the country, when you look at bordering countries, be it Colombia and stuff like that, were there, I don't know, NGOs or organizations that are, have been setting up shop there for years to be able to, I don't know, like, I can't think of a better term but like underground railroad people, the out of Venezuela, left and right.

[B]

I mean there's a lot of international aid from the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church has a lot of people set up in their border within Venezuela and Colombia to help people and a lot of other NGOs. But there's very little money flowing in. Nobody wanted to. I mean there's even little publicity. How much money did the Syrian refugees get by the un, by all these international groups? They got camps set up by the un. We had nothing.

[A]

What was the church policy by the way, over the years in Venezuela? Because usually communists takes away church.

[B]

Yes. So the church in Venezuela, the Venezuelan Catholic Church, opposed the regime very much. I mean you can see nuns and priests in the protests. It's really beautiful to see nuns facing the National Guard in Venezuela.

[A]

That's amazing. It's also wild though that they haven't been like sent to the Gulags.

[B]

Oh, they are. They arrest them, they beat them.

[A]

But all of them, I mean, no.

[B]

Not all of them. Yeah. I mean that would be very radical in a Catholic country. I think that the Venezuelan regime, if anything, tried to co opt Catholicism. How did they do that? Well, Chavez did a lot of really things that were heretic. I mean, he's really heretic. I mean he. There was a rosary. You know the rosary, right? Yes. Imagine he made a red rosary with his face instead of the Virgin Mary. I mean he, he's in hell. He's burning in hell. Javes.

[A]

Yeah, he Thought that would pass.

[B]

Yeah, he thought that would pass.

[A]

He thought people would be like, ah, this is fine.

[B]

Oh, and he brought a lot of Santeria. Have you heard of Santeria, the religion?

[A]

I heard of sangria.

[B]

No, no, this is not as nice. The Santeria is this Afro Caribbean religion that comes from a mix of. Back when the slaves were brought to the Caribbean and they mixed with the Catholic Church. They worship like demons and saints and they dress all in white and they sacrifice animals. They sacrifice, especially chicken, but also larger animals. There was an entire Supreme Court case actually about their right to do that in the U.S. in Florida, we didn't have any of them.

[A]

Florida, of course, that's where they're.

[B]

Of course, you know, it's Florida, man. But it's just mostly because of the Caribbean, you know, relation. But it's like. It was like a religious freedom case. I think the state wanted to ban them from sacrificing animals. I don't remember what was the outcome. I hope it was that you could forbid animal sacrifice. But that began appearing in Venezuela under Chavez. There's a picture of Maduro with this Indian chaman or something. This witch. I mean, these are not Christian. Maduro regime isn't Christian. You can't be a Christian and support what Venezuela has done.

[A]

Of course you can't.

[B]

Of torturing, of killing, like the misery. Right?

[A]

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, the way you said it, they're heretics.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

To say the least. It's. It's just again, you see, the first thing a lot of communist takeovers will do is remove the. The state is now God. Yes, whatever. So the fact that they didn't fully do that is fascinating.

[B]

They didn't because they didn't have anything to gain from doing that. I think Chavez and Maru were very pragmatic. Why would you, for example, even arrest everybody who opposes you? Right, Just. You have the guns, you have the power. Stay in power, keep stealing money, Let them be. If you want to have a meeting in your house and you. Your family opposes the regime, they're not going to do anything to you in the privacy of your home.

[A]

Interesting.

[B]

But if you go protest in the street with a sign, they will arrest you.

[A]

So that's the word you use. Pragmatic. They're more pragmatic than a lot of. They have been more pragmatic than a lot of these other countries have been in the past who are also totalitarian.

[B]

But then other things happen. Like an old lady has a TikTok account and she pisses off somebody in the Regime, because she jokes about him. This old lady in her 60s, she became very famous as a comedian about politics. And so she dressed up and she like, mocked the members of the regime and she called one like a cocaine dealer, which she is. And then she was disappeared. And they do that. So if you piss off the wrong person, they will disappear you.

[A]

All right, so I've been waiting to ask this question. When is your first memory or your first experience with understanding that there was some form of. Call it secret police, whatever it is, whatever the term was, and that there would be people who, if they pissed off the wrong people in the streets, in this case, like you were just outlining or said the wrong thing on some sort of platform, they'd be disappeared, wouldn't and wouldn't be heard from again.

[B]

Well, when I was a kid, you know, as I told you, I was a crazy kid. A very young age.

[A]

You were a smart kid.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, I was. Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

I don't think it's crazy. I think you were just really intelligent.

[B]

Well, and I lived in the crazy circumstances. That's what pushed me to do that, Right? Yes. And I did model United Nations. It's like a debate thing. You represent countries. I really loved it for the debate skills. I was a very shy kid. And then that really helped me.

[A]

We had model un.

[B]

Yeah, I know, I know. I did it in college. Yeah, it was kind of like a waste of time. Time in college for me. But I love what I did in high school and middle school. And when I started it, we went to do it in different schools, including public schools. And the teacher that ran it, she went to the next door school that was a public school, government. And when she went to invite them, they're like, oh, you guys are CIA agents. So we're going to report you to the regime. You're a CIA agent for doing Mortal Union. That's the first time we got accused of being CIA agents, you know? Do you remember Che Guevara, the.

[A]

Of course.

[B]

The criminal guerrilla fighter. I met the guy who captured him, this Felix Rider. Yeah, we're friends with Felix. I have a picture with him. He's great. He signed his picture, his last picture, when they captured Chigawara for him. For me, he was CIA since he was 18.

[A]

My buddy Danny Jones went in and sat down with him and did an episode with him two years ago.

[B]

Really? I'm so happy about that. That.

[A]

Yeah, he didn't like communists.

[B]

He didn't. And he did everything he could his entire life and career to. To fight My, I, I bet he's very happy today. It's a shame that Cuba is not free yet, but, you know, Venezuela becomes a free country. I can assure you Cuba is next.

[A]

It does seem like that would be the domino to fall like that. That's probably the one thing that surprised me about this. It's like, you know, Castro's been dead now for a while. Cuba's closer, it's an island. I would have thought that that would have fallen sooner than Venezuela. Obviously they don't have oil like Venezuela.

[B]

But it's not about that. It's about Venezuela has an active resistance movement and opposition and politicians to take over Cuba doesn't. Cuba is much more tightly controlled and totalitarian than Venezuela is. They have no Internet.

[A]

What about people from outside Cuba, though, who have left?

[B]

Yeah, but then we already tried by your pigs. Felix was in that. That didn't work well because of Kennedy. You know, honestly, if that had worked well, we wouldn't have seen what happened in Venezuela. I mean, that was the original sin, that, that Cuba was allowed to become this. We would see half the problems that we see today in Latin America had Cuba never been taken over by Castro. That was a huge mistake.

[A]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's. And it's wild because Cuba, like you were saying with Batista, was such a show with him, of course. But then it was just like, damn, they had it good before Castro.

[B]

Of course, no one a sponsor of terror. I mean, Cuba went to Congo, went to Angola, Nicaragua, I mean El Salvador, Venezuela, I mean, you, you name it.

[A]

Say what you want about the mafia having a few casinos in Cuba with a dictator who's kind of an asshole is of a lot a little better than, you know, what you just laid out.

[B]

I listen, and by the way, this isn't even about democracy versus dictatorship. I'll say. It's really about freedom, right? I mean, there are dictatorships in the Middle east where people aren't starving to death. When people tell me, Daniel, what happened in Venezuela is not socialism. It's just you had a dictator, you had a corrupt dictator. To which I answer, do you think that Saudi Arabia is not a corrupt country?

[A]

Of course they are.

[B]

Why aren't people starving to death in Saudi Arabia then? I thought it was all about corruption. They're a desert. They can't even grow food in Venezuela, we grow food everywhere. People are eating bananas from the sidewalk. Right, because it's not about dictatorship or democracy. It's about whether you have free markets or not.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Ability to make money.

[B]

You know Dubai has no elections.

[A]

Right.

[B]

90% of the country isn't even a citizen. But the citizens don't even vote, so who cares if you're a citizen? But they're rich as heck.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

Venezuela should be like Dubai. We have even more oil. I tell people I should not be in New York City. I should be driving a Lamborghini in Caracas. That's where Venezuela should be. That makes sense.

[A]

Yeah. On that argument.

[B]

And it is not because of socialism, not because of democracy. And of course I prefer democracy over dictatorship. But let's not deceive ourselves that what happened here is because we have an authoritarian government. It's because we have a socialist government.

[A]

Yeah. You're saying basically you got the lowest piece of. On the pile of shit. But man, if you had like a middle piece of. You might be able to do something.

[B]

Yeah, exactly.

[A]

Effectively.

[B]

I mean, look, Singapore never had a free election under the British and they were the richest country in the world.

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

Sorry. Singapore, not Hong Kong. But then Singapore too. Singapore now has elections.

[A]

Singapore is the rabbit hole. I haven't done much on yet.

[B]

It's a. I really want to go. It's a fascinating.

[A]

Yeah, I don't know much about it. I know there's like, obviously, you know who.

[B]

The leader that founded Singapore.

[A]

Really insane. I really don't know much about it.

[B]

His video edits, by the way, this dude is based. He's like such a good speaker. Lee Kuan, you is a man.

[A]

Lee Kuan, you.

[B]

Yeah. Do not commit crimes in Singapore, believe me. Because they're very tough on crime. Graffiti. They, they, they still have physical punishment.

[A]

What do they do if you graffiti a lash?

[B]

Like a whipping you.

[A]

Oh, that sucks.

[B]

Yeah, there was a big controversy. They whipped an American over vandalism in the 90s. And Clinton tried to, like, get them to forgive him. And then like, the Singaporeans are like, okay, we'll just whip him one time.

[A]

Leave a little mark.

[B]

Yeah. You know. You know, maybe that's better than going to prison.

[A]

You know, if they said to me.

[B]

Choose one year in prison or one.

[A]

Whip, I'm going to take the one whip in a lot of pain for.

[B]

And then you will never do it again.

[A]

You'll never do it again. Yeah, I mean, it's that whip. You ever write those fucking things?

[B]

They suck. But yeah, that's leek one you.

[A]

I gotta really look into this. This country and everything that's going on there. I really. Oh, so he's dead.

[B]

Yeah, he Already passed away. They. They have had many prime ministers, but he was prime minister for decades. He kept getting reelected, but, you know, it isn't as a free election, but the party in power has been in power since founding. Right.

[A]

And they're not socialists, so it's.

[B]

But no, they're super capitalist.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah, they are the top country in the economic freedom ranking. Really? Yeah. Singapore. And they're richer than Americans.

[A]

Well, I mean, you're obviously an economist when you say economic freedom ranking. Like, what goes into that?

[B]

The lowest tax rates, the lowest government spending, lowest debt to GDP ratio, stable currency, rule of law, efficient trials, and especially judgments for corporations like contracts. Can you enforce a contract? Can you evict somebody of your home if they take it? Can you like, you know, force a company to pay you if they're breaking their. Your contract? Right. IP law, all that stuff.

[A]

Interesting.

[B]

Yeah. Regulation. Can you freely import and export. Do you have tariffs or not? Yeah. Franklinburg has total free trade. It's really incredible.

[A]

Little side note right here. Just because you are an economics guy, what do you think of the tariff policies that Trump has tried to impose? Do you think there's a use for something like that, or are you kind of against tariffs in all their forms?

[B]

I mean, what I will say is that I think it's been disastrous for the US Economy. Very much disastrous.

[A]

How so?

[B]

Well, I think they have destroyed jobs, they have raised costs, and we're poorer for it. Now, you can say with the case of China, that's different, but I mean, we have put tariffs in Singapore, and Singapore doesn't even have tariffs on us. I mean, the whole reciprocity thing is a whole different discussion, but it's also not reciprocal what we're doing. But regardless, what I wanted to say about that is that even if you say we should impose tariffs on China because they're evil and we want to make them poorer, you have to recognize that's also making us poor. But we're willing to bear that cost. Let's not deceive ourselves. We're bearing a cost because of a greater good. But all tariffs are making us bear a cost. There's no free lunch. I mean, if tariffs were for free, then why would we have any other tax? And no country would have taxes. Everybody would just have tariffs. Of course. And that's not the case.

[A]

Yeah. And you can create tariff wars real fast.

[B]

And that's what happened. That's what's happening. So I think. I mean, the Trump administration is realizing that. That's why they have backtracked a lot of them.

[A]

What have they done recently on that?

[B]

They just backtracked the pasta tariffs. They were tariffing Italian pasta and now they're like, oh, actually, no, no, thank God, thank God. I love my Barilla pasta.

[A]

That's bullshit.

[B]

Have you been to Italy? In Manhattan?

[A]

I actually have. There is a. There is. On the one. I think there's a couple Italy's, but the one by the. The one on 23rd Street.

[B]

Oh, Flatiron.

[A]

There's a little bar back there. What is the name of it? Little bar restaurant. Molino, I think.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

They got one of the best pappardelli dishes. Milano. That's it.

[B]

Oh, Milano.

[A]

Yeah. They got one of the best pappardelli dishes in the city.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Low key. Which you would never expect. Respectfully, like, in a place that's just, you know, like selling the food a little bit touristy, but. But yeah, that place is fire.

[B]

Yeah. No, I mean, I love that. No, I mean, if you understand the concept of comparative advantage, you understand that we can't and shouldn't. I mean, we can. We would just be poor if we didn't produce everything.

[A]

Can you explain comparative advantage for people out there?

[B]

Yeah, I mean, I'll give you one great example. I can bet you that when you have been on an Uber ride, you can think, wow, this man drives really bad. I would be a better driver. Yeah. Why aren't you an Uber driver than if you're a better driver? Because you have better things to do with your time. So the fact that somebody's an Uber driver doesn't mean that they're the best drivers in the country. They're just. It's just the best relative to the other options they have to do with their time.

[A]

Understood.

[B]

So they're doing their comparative advantage, even if you have an absolute advantage over them at being a driver. Einstein. Einstein, I bet, is better than us at doing math, but he did physics. You know, Einstein is probably faster at reading. Why isn't he a news analyst or something? Because he has 24 hours in the day. He's going to do what's most productive to do among all the things he's great at doing. Even if he's better than you are doing everything right. You know, I might be stronger than Einstein, but I'm not going to be, you know, a swimmer, a professional swimmer. There are other people, you know, like, everybody should do what they're relatively better at doing. That's comparative advantage.

[A]

So why are you bringing that up in the context?

[B]

Bring it up because that's the same with countries. What is America relatively better at doing than other countries? A lot of farm products were a big ag exporter. Soy, corn, you know, a lot of other things. Airplanes, you know, the. The Boeings. That's a big export. Military equipment, high tech, electric cars, Tesla innovation, the tech companies, financial services, the banks. We have the best banking system in the world. What are we not relatively better at doing? Well, bananas. Because we're not a tropical country.

[A]

Right.

[B]

It's not that we can't make bananas. We can. We'll just have to pay $10 for each of them to grow them in greenhouses.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then people will have to stop doing other jobs to grow bananas. Right. So we'll produce less of everything else.

[A]

Right. So the things that we have a good.

[B]

And it's not just bananas, even pasta. The Italians are relatively better. Why? Because of a history. Right? A host of things.

[A]

Absolutely. Okay, so that makes sense.

[B]

That's comparative advantage and that's why we benefit from trade. And it's not just at the country level, it's at the state level. It's at the individual level. You know, we could all be subsistence farmers and not trade with each other. We'll just all be subsistence farmers and we really don't want to be.

[A]

Yeah, it wouldn't be efficient at all.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So going back to Venezuela, though, and the man of the hour, we've been putting it off, but Maduro.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So we've talked a lot of Chavez today, because Chavez is who set the foundation here, laid it evil devil man, the whole bit. But Maduro, as you laid out correctly earlier, is certainly not a dummy. Like, he's someone who figured out how to rise through the power structure and put himself in good positions. Even like at one point he was like the, I think the official foreign trade minister.

[B]

Yeah, he was the Minister of Foreign affairs.

[A]

And he. And this is not a man who spoke any languages, of course, like besides Spanish, and yet was affected. But Spanish effective, huge air quotes. There, there. In a job like that, to be put in a job like that by someone like Chavez and be so trusted in the regime. So what was Maduro's history and how did this pathway happen from him literally driving buses to becoming the vice president eventually the illegitimate president of the country?

[B]

Well, Maduro has been a loyalist from the beginning. Maduro was a member of the constituent assembly that rewrote the Constitution in 1999. Yeah. And so he has been in the Chavez regime from the start. Same as Delsey, same as Dios Dado.

[A]

Same as Delsey's, the VP right now?

[B]

Yeah, one of the VPs. There's several actually. They created a lot of positions, but all of the people in power have been with Chavez since the beginning and Majora was just a big loyalist and he managed to become vice president before Chavez died and get Chavez to appoint him before he died.

[A]

Did Maduro obviously, like it waned as the years went on and he had a lot of problems and was winning elections illegally that he clearly didn't.

[B]

He never won a legal election, Maduro.

[A]

But when he was coming to power, even before he was, he had people in the country who supported him and liked him. What, what was it about him that made him likable to a subset of people?

[B]

So he was already a minority. But just Chavez's endorsement.

[A]

That's it.

[B]

That's it. That's absolutely it.

[A]

So Chavez dies of cancer. Wasn't there like an issue where they're like, he might have been dead a few months earlier?

[B]

Yeah, we think he died in December 2012, but then they announced that in March.

[A]

Now is that, that's because they like tried to pass a lot of law?

[B]

They sent him to Cuba? No, it was just like, I think they were figuring out who was going to take over. They had a lot of problems because. Because before Chavez died, this was a one man dictatorship. Chavez was the man in charge.

[A]

He's the man you had to follow.

[B]

The orders of Hugo. And then after that it became an oligarchy. It's several people in charge. That's the proper meaning of oligarchy. It's several people who are in charge of a constitutional.

[A]

So there were other people besides Maduro?

[B]

Of course. Maduro was the president in name, but he's not the leader.

[A]

Of course that's not what it was.

[B]

Oh no, of course. It's Diosdado Cabello who's also indicted as a reward for his head. Del C. Rodriguez, her brother Jorge Rodriguez, their siblings Tarek Elaisaimi, who now they all betrayed him and they arrested him, though we don't know if it's for real or he's just in hiding. A lot of controversy. And then Tarek William Saab, who's like the prosecutor, he's the one who like orders who to arrest. And then there's like the Minister of Defense, Vladimir Padrino, that's another big guy. And Celia, the wife of Maduro is also a big one.

[A]

When Chavez died, what was the vibe like in the country and the quote, unquote mourning of him and that Whole process.

[B]

What was that like? We were very happy. We were very happy because he died, but really, because we were hoping that this was the breaking point of the regime. He's dead. This is over. But he wasn't, because they had a transition plan to stay in power, and they announced their death. All the people that are in power today, they got together, did a press conference crying over Chavez dying or Commander Intergalactic.

[A]

Commander Intergalactic.

[B]

Intergalactic. They literally called this man intergalactic Commander. It wasn't enough to be the commander of Venezuela or the world. No, the galaxy.

[A]

He was a deity.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

They literally call him intergalactic. And people are like, yeah, that's normal. Well, a lot of people, not most people, but a lot of people, we laughed about it and they called it. They had all these names. The United States was the empire, the. You know, the empire. Imperialist. Yeah. It's kind of funny because it was the Soviet Union that was the evil empire, but Reagan's work. And so every time people came back from the US In a visit, we used to joke, how was the empire? You know, we love the empire. And there were. They put graffitis, the regime in the street with evil Uncle Sam. Like, imagine an Uncle Sam, but with devilish horns and a tail. And he's like, gringo, go home. And it's like, which gringos? What are you talking about?

[A]

No one's here.

[B]

Yeah, there are no gringos here. So they really hated the United States. And that's kind of why we love the United States, because the regime hates America. We must love it. And then America began standing up for us, Right? You know, some of the sanctions at the beginning, and then really, Donald Trump doing it. And it was like, wow, you know, what's the country that's standing for? Our freedom.

[A]

It's the United States now, Maduro. So it's a bunch of people kind of running at this at the same time. And Maduro's, the public figurehead, is like, oh, he's. He's in charge. At some point, though, he does take control above the other people.

[B]

Is that fair enough? Maybe in some decisions they have an internal structure that we are not really aware of. But maybe not. Maybe if. Maybe it's a council and he's outvoted. I don't know. They're all drug dealers.

[A]

Even to this day.

[B]

Even to this day.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

It's not just him and his wife. I mean, there's other people with a lot of power in the country. Diosdo Cabello is actually the Richest man in the country. It's not Maduro. Do we have the bald guy? You can look him up.

[A]

Do we have an idea what his net worth is?

[B]

Billions. Billions of dollars. Billions.

[A]

And you think. And that's all from the drug trade?

[B]

Oh, yeah. Well, I'm stealing the oil money earlier.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

The gold reserves and illegal mining and a lot of things.

[A]

That's another thing I haven't asked yet, but let's get to that and figure out the actual, like layout here. At what point did the Chavez or Maduro regime. I'm not really sure when it officially happened, but at what point?

[B]

2013.

[A]

Early 2013.

[B]

Chavez died.

[A]

No, no, no. At what point did either of these regimes say, we are now in the narco trafficking business? And how did that work?

[B]

It's a good question. They kicked out the American DEA, I think, in 2008. Don't take me on my word. But okay, but you know, they kicked it out in a certain year around that time. But they really, I mean, the U.S. alleges. And you, you can see, see the indictment, that it was from the start, that it was from the start that they were dealing drugs. It just increasingly became true.

[A]

What were their supply routes? Like, who were they getting it from? Who were they working?

[B]

The Colombians. So Colombia is the biggest producer of cocaine in the world. Who produces it in Colombia? FARC and eln. You know about FARC and eln?

[A]

It's been a while. Is that the left wing communist guerrilla?

[B]

Yeah. Chavez was a big defender and supporter of FARC and eln.

[A]

I bet he was.

[B]

He has even speech in Congress saying FARC and ELN are not terrorist groups, they are armed freedom fighters, something like that. But he said they're not terrorist groups.

[A]

And they have to sell cocaine to fund it.

[B]

Where do you think they came from so far? County Lang obviously produced it because they controlled land in tropical parts of Colombia. But then how were they going to take it out? It was difficult to take it out through Colombia because the Colombian government was against them, checking for it. Well, now you had the government next door in the border that you control, allowing you to bring all your cocaine in exchange for a fee, a reasonable fee, that they collaborate. And then they used Venezuelan airplanes, state owned airplanes, even Madura's nephews. That's why they were charged.

[A]

Right. So there was like a whole deal here where they got charged, they got imprisoned in the US and then by the presidential pardon. Yeah, he traded them for like some Americans.

[B]

He had some Americans that I will say were working for the Venezuelan regime. Let's just be clear.

[A]

Oh, really?

[B]

Yes. Let's be fair here.

[A]

So then he just.

[B]

They were not some innocent people who got kidnapped. We have to be very transparent. They worked for the Venezuelan state owned oil company and they were Venezuelans who became Americans. They were not just Americans from here.

[A]

So why did we, the Americans, trade.

[B]

His sons, not just his nephews, but also another big financier of terrorists. Saab, who was a Colombian Lebanese guy who.

[A]

Financier of terrorism.

[B]

Finance your terrorism?

[A]

Yeah, specifically, like what, what terrorism?

[B]

Islamic. That's why he's Lebanese.

[A]

Oh, really?

[B]

Yeah. Oh, Hezbollah.

[A]

This was like a Hezbollah network guy. They traded him and the nephews.

[B]

How do you think modern terrorist groups finance themselves? Through drug trafficking.

[A]

Oh, of course. Yeah, I know all about that. But I'm saying we traded one of those guys and his two nephews for seven dudes.

[B]

Big dudes, big people.

[A]

Seven dudes who were on the take.

[B]

Yes, yes. I mean, you can look. I'm happy that they're free. I'm just saying it was a bad trade. Yeah, it was a bad trade.

[A]

Sounds like a bad deal.

[B]

And the presidential part on the Biden sign for this terrorist financier said that one of the conditions is that he can't make a documentary about it. It's really like laughable. Like, don't do Netflix, please. I'll add this.

[A]

Wait, I thought the nephews trade was way, way before Biden.

[B]

No, Biden released him.

[A]

Biden released?

[B]

Yes. They were arrested and charged under Obama, then put to prison. Life in prison. A judge in New York. They were here under Trump all the term and then Biden released them.

[A]

Wow, okay, so that was. That was more recent. And then he just threw in a little Hezbollah.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Financier.

[B]

Yeah. And now there's more Americans kidnapped, by the way, because why wouldn't Majora take more Americans in exchange for more consumption?

[A]

Is this the same type of American?

[B]

No, no, these are really innocent people. It's really sad. Like one guy and he got released. Then on the Biden, I'm very happy. He was like this poor guy from Utah who got in love with a Venezuelan woman. And like. Yeah, you know, and now there's like five Americans right now still there.

[A]

Kidnapped, actually, and sitting in their gulags.

[B]

Horrible. You know what the Americans said? How they torture them, The Venezuelans? They told them every day that they were getting released and they showered them. They got them ready and then they're like, ha, ha ha, you're not getting released. Psychological torture.

[A]

Oh, that's fucked up.

[B]

It is.

[A]

What other not to get like, you.

[B]

Know how the torture Venezuelans, what do they do? I have a friend, her name is Mario Ropesa. She was kidnapped from her House in August 2024 after the fraudulent election for the crime of observing the fraud and calling it out in protest and on social media. So they make people eat their feces. They obviously hang them and electrocute them. They put them in very small spaces where they have to eat from the place where they defecate and they piss. There's an entire. It's called El Alicoide. That's the biggest torture center in Latin America. It was supposed to be a mall and they turned it into a torture center where they play basketball on top of the political prisoners in. In like a basketball court and other sports. And that's how they torture them. They do everything you can imagine taking their toenails and their fingernails, like everything.

[A]

Do people ever get released?

[B]

Yeah, they released a few people on Christmas Day actually. They're very nice of them. They didn't release Maria though.

[A]

She's been in there for like 18 months.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Is there any way to have any contact with them in there? Are they totally shut off, even from their mom?

[B]

No, her mom is there. Her grandma just died. I don't know if she knows. I hope she doesn't. I fear that the regime is actually using it to torture her even more. You never know. She's just, you know, she actually we met here in the United States. She came here and that's where we met. And then she's like, I want to go back to fight for freedom. And she went back in 2019 and she joined Maria Corona's party. She joined the Vento Venezuela, the, you know, like the free market classical liberal party. And she became the leader.

[A]

She's running against who?

[B]

Well, she was part from running, but she's the opposition leader. She's the Nobel Prize winner Maracarena. And Maria, this girl, she became the leader of the party in her own state of Portuguese, a rural state, her entire state. She became the leader at like 30 years old, very young. And then you know, they arrested her. But she really went back to fight for her freedom. And she didn't have to. She could have sought asylum here. Here. I mean she had obviously a good case. Look where she is now.

[A]

Yeah, now. It's amazing that she went back there to do that. Cuz she cares that much. I admire that a lot. But I can't imagine her sister is.

[B]

Here in the us she's safe but her mom is there fighting for her.

[A]

The mom is there fighting for it, but the mom has no contact with her. No, she doesn't. They don't let any phone calls happen or anything like that. Obviously.

[B]

No, that's part of it. Right. That's part of the torture.

[A]

What is when Chavez changed the constitution to take control. I forget if you said this, or forgive me, if this is being repeated, but was in. In those changes, did that also seize control of all the courts as well?

[B]

Yeah. So first, how could you rewrite the entire Constitution legally? You can't. Right. There's an amendment process. Imagine in the U.S. i mean, there's. You need so much consensus. That's why it would be impossible to pass any amendment today. Right. So what Chavez did is argue the constitution says that sovereignty lies in the people. Kind of like saying, if American Declaration of Independence is we the people. Right. And then he says, therefore, if we have a referendum where we win 51% of the vote, we can rewrite the entire thing. And then the Supreme Court said, wait a minute. And so then he went and just packed the Supreme Court. And then the Supreme Court says, yes, you can do whatever you want. He won the referendum fairly, but obviously it's still wrong. And then he got an assembly elected with a super majority that he had. And his people rewrote the entire thing.

[A]

So they rewrote the entire thing within.

[B]

A year of being in office.

[A]

Right. And so as a part of this sham rewrite, there is something in there. Maybe I'm reading this too deeply, but there's something in there that allows for them to arrest people at will, hold them without trial.

[B]

No, not really.

[A]

Towards.

[B]

They just do it. They just do that against their own.

[A]

Constitution and no court systems.

[B]

Oh. Any judge that. That rebels against them gets arrested themselves. That's why all the judges are in the pay. There's a very famous case of this judge. What's. What's her name? Afuni. The judge. A Funy.

[A]

A funy. How do you spell that?

[B]

A F, U. A few. F IU.

[A]

Deep sky.

[B]

Oh, Mari.

[A]

Okay. So is a Venezuelan judge. She was head of the 31st Control Court of Caracas before she was arrested in 09 on charges of corruption after ordering the conditional release on bail of businessman Aligio Sedeno, who then fled the country. She was moved to house arrest in Caracas.

[B]

I have a friend who lived in that building, actually.

[A]

Incorrect. In February 2011 and granted parole in June 2013. But she is still barred from practicing law, leaving the country or using her bank Account or social networks.

[B]

In 2019, she was arrested and sentenced to five years in prison.

[A]

There it is. Okay, so she was sentenced for.

[B]

She was not corrupt. She just released somebody who should have been released.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Against the orders of the regime.

[A]

They kept coming after. Years later, they do that. And when they sentence her to prison, are they sending her to that mall torture center? Her?

[B]

I don't remember where she was sent.

[A]

But they're sending her some hellhole prison where they may do the very same thing.

[B]

That's right. Absolutely.

[A]

Is she still in there?

[B]

I don't know what happened to her after that. Actually, I think she's out of the country. I don't know. Can you check?

[A]

Yeah. Okay. Second detention. She might be in there still in 20 because she was sentenced to five years in 2019. But there's no announced the Venice they. They released ALF. In July 2019, they released Alfuni alongside journalists Braglio Jatar and 20 detained students. Funny's brother and Jatar denounced that they had not received an official statement from Venezuelan judiciary. And then there's no aftermath. I don't know where she is.

[B]

I think she's released. Yeah. No, no, probably.

[A]

I mean, I hope so. That's horrible.

[B]

So. So that's what happens to judges who don't follow orders. So all of them tend to be in the take. They're all corrupt. I mean, everybody in a political position in the regime.

[A]

Did you have any friends at a family who. Not even like if they're part of the regime, but did you have friends of the family who were judges or involved in the law system or anything like that, where it was like, did, dude, what are your parents like? What are you doing?

[B]

Not my family. But the only friendship I ever broke was because of this, what happened there? Very good friend. I'm not going to say who he is, but he. No, he was a normal kid. He didn't work or anything. You know, we were the same age and he lived only with his mom. Divorced parents. His mom was a normal woman, but his dad, that had abandoned the family, worked for the regime in the tax system. And he was very rich, of course, very rich. Conveniently private airplane, the entire thing, boats, yachts. And suddenly when we were in high school, then suddenly my friend starts going to parties, very lavish parties. And then I leave Venezuela and he's like, in a private airplane, in a yacht. And that's why I broke the friendship, because I'm like, man, you're an adult, obviously you're benefiting, you're profiting from the Destruction of the country. People are literally dying while you're profiting from their death. You're a piece of.

[A]

Yeah, I don't blame you.

[B]

That's the only friendship I've ever broke, actually. And people say, oh, people today in America break. French is for political reasons. This is not a political reason. Okay. This is not like we have a disagreement or like abortion or whatever. This is like you're literally profiting from this. You're enjoying the fruits of ill gotten gains.

[A]

Yeah. I think you guys have a different reality check understanding of what, what it means to have political differences. And that's, that's right. It's not even the correct term. It's very sad to me. A trend in this country that, you know, people have seen in their lives and that you hear about. Mostly I've just heard stories about, I haven't seen it happen like, like with people necessarily around me, but people breaking friendships or families, not talking to each other because they have political differences. That's crazy. That said, I agree with you. If you are like reality check. If you're living in a literal, literal dictatorship, literal regime that has choked off the economy from the world and ruined all the people there. And then someone's political difference is that their families on the take of it and they're Instagramming it around the world. That's different.

[B]

That's actually, that's how we found out where the Venezuelan gold reserves ended up. Because of Instagram?

[A]

Come on.

[B]

Because, you know, they, they, most countries have their gold reserves, their central bank gold reserves in Switzerland or New York City for safety reasons. Right, right. And then Chavez was like, we're sovereign nation, we need to bring back the gold to Caracas. Yeah. For sovereignty. Right. The gold disappeared.

[A]

Where'd it go?

[B]

Well, we found, you know, central bank gold bars are special. They have like a special marking. You know, they're, they're. I don't know how you call it, but they have their name on it. Central bank of Venezuela. Every central bank has. This is. They're not just, just a flat gold bar. And some prostitutes were doing a live on Instagram in Dubai. This is where you go. Yeah. And there was this glass table that had a bunch of gold bars below the glass table and the gold bars had the Venezuelan Central bank. And that's where the goal ended. And that actually makes a lot of sense because Dubai is the one place in the world where you go to launder money with gold. They accept any gold, no questions asked, in the Dubai airport and then you can use it to Buy property and that's how you launder money, give it to the hookers. Well, and then, I mean there were hookers in the apartment. I'm sure they were getting the hookers. But yeah, of course there's prostitution and all of this. That, that's how these people lose their money. Right. This is why crooks and people who have bill garden gains, they never stay rich for long.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

Because they didn't build it. Yeah. They stole it.

[A]

And they all got the same vices.

[B]

They all have the same vices.

[A]

Vices come around to kick in the fat bottom.

[B]

This is as old as humanity as, you know, all these vices.

[A]

Now we were talking about the narco trafficking though, and everything. And you're explaining how it's coming in from FARC and Colombia's basically like, then Venezuela becomes a transporter of it. And that's how the government gets on the take.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Fast forward to the months leading up to what we just saw with the invasion. There was this whole thing with like Venezuelan drug boats being shot at and everything. What was going on there? Who was in charge of that? Who was on those boats? Who were those people? Where does the government overlap with gangs? Like say Trende, Aragua.

[B]

Great. Well, Trandara. I'll touch on it separately.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Because they started in a prison. They began as a criminal gang, not as a drug gang.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Like extortion, kidnapping. Venezuela had a big kidnapping problem in the mid-2000s. That was a big fear for my family. Family and many others.

[A]

Kidnapping, bro.

[B]

Kidnapping. Yeah, it's. We, they created something called express kidnapping. Sequester.

[A]

Express, like a holiday?

[B]

Yeah. Less than 24 hours. It's. This is not like when you think of kidnapping in the US you think of a psychopath that is going to torture you. Like you think of criminal minds and cis. No, it's a profit making activity. They're like, you know, Julian, you've been kidnapped. We, we are serious people here. They keep you in the car with your ice bag. You give us your mom's number, we're going to call her. $5,000 for Julian's life. We'll drop him off here, but you need to give us the $5,000. If not, he's dead. And then you.

[A]

So they're still. Yeah.

[B]

And so if you give the $5,000, they won't really kill you. They're very actually serious about it. That will just release you. Because for them it's about money. They're. They're businessmen.

[A]

Well, that's nice.

[B]

Yeah, I Mean, it's nice that they tell the truth on this. There's so many. There's this comedian, Venezuelan comedian, who got kidnapped, and he has such a funny story because he literally had the kidnappers laugh with him because he was a professional comedian, and they laughed with him. They were having a great time in the garage.

[A]

This is not personal.

[B]

Yeah, it's not. It was not personal. And so that was a big problem, and that's how these gangs started. But on the drug trafficking, what happens is this is a big network. The military is involved. Everybody is on take, and regular Venezuelans get paid to traffic drugs, and they're drug dealers, and they were on these boats. The Associated Press has a great report where they tried to make the Trump administration look bad by going into Venezuela and interviewing the families of the people killed. And even all the families of all the people killed said, oh, he was a fisherman. He was this. But, yes, he was trafficking drugs. Everybody admitted they were trafficking drugs. So now you can say, where were.

[A]

They taking them to?

[B]

To different. I mean, usually Caribbean islands, Central America. And that's how they get here. Here.

[A]

But so the question becomes.

[B]

Now you can say maybe this is not a fair response.

[A]

Well, no, no. If they're trafficking drugs, that's terrible. But I'm saying, if they're not trafficking it to the United States.

[B]

Well, it's. That's where it's coming to, though. I mean, people in Honduras are now buying the cocaine.

[A]

So they're putting it. They're putting it to. But you're saying, like, some of these islands and stuff, they're. Then it's coming there to the.

[B]

Of course.

[A]

Okay, that makes sense.

[B]

Puerto Rico, too. Puerto Rico has a seaboarder with Venezuela, by the way, but most of it actually ends up in the Caribbean islands in Central America. And then the other cartels traffic them here.

[A]

Okay, Understand?

[B]

So the Mexican cartels collaborate with all of this.

[A]

So I see there's a lot of tiny planes, too.

[B]

It's not really just boats. A lot of it is in planes.

[A]

Yeah, Def. I sent you some tweets earlier on the messages. Can we pull up the one? Not one of the videos? Well, I think there might have been a video in it of Trump talking where the context was they were sent. Not that one, is it? No, that one, I think. Right. Where he's talking about the oil. Is that right? So. This is what the tweet says, and this is, you know, you see a lot of tweets, like, simplifying things down to the basics. But let's like, let's just look at what happened here. Marco Rubio this is about a dictator who oppresses his people. PETE HAGSETH it's about drugs that pose an imminent threat. Trump not it's about oil. Because Trump went on and he said on Fox and Friends and they said, what do you see as the future of Venezuela's oil industry? And he said, well, see that we'll see that. We're going to be strongly involved in it. That's all what I can say. We have the greatest oil companies in the world. And so people do wonder. It's like the way that they marketed in the months leading up to this that, you know, they had to go to Venezuela was because it was this giant drug war when in reality Trump just pardoned the ex head of Honduras who was a massive drug trafficker. We have, we've declared the cartels in Mexico terrorists and still haven't technically like done anything about that. And they're the ones that are trafficking the most drugs in here. And yes, there were drugs being trafficked in Venezuela, but comparatively speaking, it's much smaller. The bottom line is this is a country that has significant financial resources and you now have the president right after doing this saying, yeah, we're going to be really involved.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

In those oil companies. Again, separating the fact Maduro Chavez bad love it that that could potentially be gone. There's a lot that has to happen that could potentially be gone for Venezuela. Do you see why people in the US but even more specifically like around the world are looking at this going, this is just a cash grab.

[B]

Wait a minute, what's the problem?

[A]

What do you mean what's the problem?

[B]

You're pointing out that the US it would be like, wants oil.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Why is that a bad thing?

[A]

I don't think it's a bad thing that the United States wants oil and to enrich its economy. I think the that people around the world and then also people within our own country because of the last 20, 25 years worth of history, are very, very reticent to the propaganda that that can cause. When the most powerful government in the world decides whether a guy is a bad leader or not, that they can send in Delta Force, take the dude out in the middle of the night and then come in and say we're here as fucking freedom fighters, by the way, we're going to run the country. We. Which they said they're going to do today and we're going to get involved in the oil and enrich ourselves. So if I were just purely selfish, I'd be like, yay, my GDP just got a lot better in America. But I'm also thinking about the way that this will be propagandized around the world by places that hate us and what this could do generations.

[B]

Places that hate us already hate us. But that's not going to.

[A]

But you. But you're giving them evidence. What about the fact. Hold on, hold on. What about the that fact? Fact that it could set precedent for Russia to take further action in Ukraine?

[B]

What about Russia already takes her oil, Venezuelan oil.

[A]

Hold on. What if it could take. I'm talking about actual like, oh, well, we'll Russia's just like, well, we'll just take out Zelensky.

[B]

They already took Ukraine.

[A]

They haven't taken all of Ukraine.

[B]

But because they couldn't because they already did. They already invaded.

[A]

All right, what about if this sets a.

[B]

And they're actually killing people?

[A]

What about if this sets a precedent for China to be like, you know what it, we're going to take Taiwan now?

[B]

Well, they already wanted to. They're not going to, but they already wanted to. If anything, this deters them.

[A]

It deters them.

[B]

Of course. This is like President Trump was able to literally take the leader of the majority regime, like, in the middle of the night.

[A]

He can't do that in China.

[B]

He can do it in China, but he can do it in different countries that support China. He could do it to Kim Jong Un, he could do it to somebody else. Like, he doesn't want to.

[A]

It's a bad day for them.

[B]

But the point is that the United States showed what it can do do, and that's a blow to China because who was getting Venezuela's oil? China and Russia and Iran. It was a blow on them. These shows don't mess with Trump because look what he's willing to do. He's willing to literally blockade the entire country. So I think that was good. And on the whole thing about the oil, look, the only countries that were getting Venezuela oil for free were Cuba, Russia, China and Iran.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Bad place. Now Venezuela is hopefully, if Venezuela becomes a free country now, let's see what happens. Will become much richer because oil companies will invest, actually invest, create jobs, pay taxes. It's amazing. That's what we want.

[A]

I think it very well could be. I, you know, and I'm not.

[B]

And I'm not. And that benefits America and benefits Venezuela.

[A]

I'm not being combative about it. I have to look at this. On all this is a wide spectrum of stuff that just happened. And I'm still processing what it all is. And I have to look at the potential. Like, all right, what are the decision trees of where this could go? And maybe it is or all good or mostly good.

[B]

But imagine there was no oil. Imagine Venezuela had nothing to offer to the US Then. Why would the US do anything if it's not in its interest?

[A]

That's what I'm saying.

[B]

It would be a waste of taxpayer dollars.

[A]

Now it gets used now it's not.

[B]

A waste of taxpayer dollars.

[A]

It's actually good right now. It gets used on the other end, though, because it's like. I'll tell you one thing I appreciate about Trump saying this. He's at least fucking saying that he's honest, right? He's saying this. Whereas Hegseth is lying like a dog. Rubio.

[B]

Why are they lying?

[A]

Well, Rubio's not lying because that. That does make sense. But Heg. Seth, it's about drugs. Well, it's not about.

[B]

It's also about drugs.

[A]

This is the thing about drugs.

[B]

It's about several things at the same time.

[A]

All right. What percentage of it is about drugs? If you say more than 5%, I don't think.

[B]

I do think it's about way more than 5%.

[A]

I don't think so.

[B]

I don't think it's all about.

[A]

You think the Venezuelan drug trade is significantly, even remotely comparable because it's not about to Mexico. You think it's even remote.

[B]

I mean, but the drugs that get to Mexico from here come from Venezuela.

[A]

Some of them do. But like Mexico is the problem with that.

[B]

Absolutely, I agree. And I think that the president wants to take a lot of things in Mexico too. And he already said he offered U.S. troops in the ground in Mexico to the Mexican president. They actually said that this week.

[A]

Interesting.

[B]

I think President Trump wants to hit Mexico, too. So it's. It's all about a lot of things. And they're chewing a gum and walking.

[A]

At the same time now that's. And again, maybe I'm admittedly. You're talking about. I'm talking out of both sides of my mouth. Was saying this. Now it gets weird with that too, because it's like, well, that's a bordering nation to us now.

[B]

We hit with a democratic government. It gets weird things. So. So that's why I think they're being more careful. Venezuela is different because it's an illegitimate regime. It was illegal actually sponsoring terrorism. That's what the dog money is for. The human rights violations are huge. The migrant crisis that they cost. In the United States, Americans have died. Lake and Riley died because of a turned around gang member. Americans have died because of Maturo. Americans die every day because of this. So there are Americans kidnapped there. So there's a lot of reasons to do this.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I think that the confluence of those reasons is why the Trump administration decided to go in.

[A]

And there's no doubt it's not anecdotal to say this. When you look at the response coming from people, forget people that have been forced to leave the country of Venezuela, who are native Venezuelans who are celebrating this, but when you look at the response of people who are in Venezuela right now, it is overwhelmingly like, let's go. I mean I told you, I talked to my guy earlier, he was like, they were literally watching it like with their hands up like this. People are very happy, of course and.

[B]

I, they're very nervous because the regime is still in power. But we'll get to that in a minute.

[A]

It just on right now, what we know right now. It does need to be said that even you've seen a lot of videos coming out of Venezuela from people who are like, yo, I literally don't like Trump and have talked against him. But like this. Thank you. We like this. And I think that I, I think that even, you know, the hardcore libertarians out there who hate anything regime change and stuff like that and would welcome some of the challenges I just offered you. You, you have to look at that and say that's interesting that so many people there like that. So it's not.

[B]

And they should talk to Venezuela libertarians. Venezuela has a huge libertarian movement. Students for Liberty, like classic liberals ain't ran people in Venezuela. They're very happy.

[A]

I'll bet they are.

[B]

They're very, very happy. The Venezuelan libertarians, I know a lot of them, I belong to that movement. Then I became just more conservative.

[A]

But yes, now what those guys, people who are much more isolationist libertarian like Americans might say to something like this is like, okay, at this point, feel that got you. What about what happens next though? That's right now, now what do you think? If you were in charge and go wave a magic wand here, how would you manage this situation as the United States to ensure some sort of of peaceful transfer of power that is now not going to be in the hands of people who would support someone like Maduro.

[B]

That's right. I would have had a very good phone call with Delsey, with Yoshido, with Vladimir Padrino, the other oligarchs in Venezuela and tell them you are next. Maybe that's what Rubio did. He had a phone call with them, they probably did that and said, you're next. You have this number of days, whatever, to give an announcement to the country that you're going to turn in power gradually in the next couple of months. Not a year, but the next couple of months. It needs to happen this year, very soon to Edmundo Gonzalez, the President elect. They're going to turn over the ministries, you're going to turn over the positions in every part of government and then you're going to leave with all the money that you have. We will guarantee you a wire transfer that you can do right now. You can take the gold, you can take everything in your plane to Moscow and you can leave and you won't be charged. And if you don't do this, we will do what President Trump just announced, which is that we're ready for a second, much larger operation to take you down. And maybe you won't even survive this operation.

[A]

There's also some important differences we have to outline here compared to like say in Iraq. Number one, in Iraq, we put, put, we had to put all these troops on the ground like crazy. That's number one. There were mass casualties of people as well, just all kinds of problems.

[B]

Iraqis, Americans, the whole bit.

[A]

This one, as of right now, there's zero casualties. People got in, got out and you know, we're going to monitor the situation. But that, that's, that's a nice start.

[B]

I mean, incredibly well executed. We really have to give props to the American military, to the President. I mean, this is incredible achievement, military achievement.

[A]

It certainly looked like it. I don't think you can argue with that at this point. But you have that going for you. You also, in Iraq had massive regional problems, massive terror networks that were already existing, who were not even Iraqi. In, in a lot of cases. Right. You have, you have bordering nations like the Iranians who are funding issues like this. And of course you have the age old Sunni, Shia problem which we mismanaged because then we kicked out all the Bathurst and allowed only one of them to take power. Those things, as far as I know, correct me if I'm wrong, parallel types of cultural problems like that don't necessarily exist in Venezuela, is that correct?

[B]

No. Venezuela is like most Latin American countries, a majority Catholic country with some evangelicals, growing evangelical population. But people don't hate each other because of their faith or ethnicity.

[A]

What about the bordering nations though? Is there with things like FARC or things like that. Are there ways that insurgencies could find their way into Venezuela? Through native Venezuelans?

[B]

Yes. Well, I'm not sure through native Venezuelans, but they're certainly the colectivos. That's the biggest threat. They are the paramilitary groups that Chavez armed from the beginning. They're essentially communist guerrillas. They're small number in membership, but they are armed. They want to cause trouble, but they're also not dumb. And they would never fight, like a foreign military or anything like that because they would get killed. They've only ever fought unarmed civilians in protests. That's their entire experience.

[A]

Yeah, so.

[B]

But. But there certainly are groups that can give trouble, and I think that that's the biggest threat. And that's why Venezuela needs some peacemaking force. You know, whether it's the Venezuelan military, can they survive a transition? The Venezuelan military itself?

[A]

Yeah. What's the setup there right now? What does that. What does that even look like? Like what? Obviously, they were loyal to Maduro, but are a lot of people in the military?

[B]

I mean, the soldiers, the regular soldiers are not right. But they don't want to get killed. They want to get paid and they want to eat, and that's why they're so.

[A]

Did they have an opening now to say to the leadership, yo, we're not fighting for this anymore?

[B]

No, they. They don't, because they're still in power, which is why we need the United States to threaten these people to peacefully, you know, give power to the elected government.

[A]

What are your friends on the ground in Venezuela who are fortunate enough to not be in prison right now? What. In speaking with them over the past day, what have they been saying about what it's like in the streets or at the government, outside the government buildings or things like that?

[B]

It is empty. Totally empty. Empty. The streets are empty. Everybody's like, we're not leaving our house because everybody's afraid of getting arrested.

[A]

Oh, they're afraid of getting arrested right now?

[B]

Oh, yes, yes. And to be fair, they're waiting to see what Maria Corina Machado, the opposition leader, says, because she put out a statement a few hours ago saying, you know, remember, we're recording this on Saturday, saying that carefully. Wait for my next instructions to the people of Venezuela.

[A]

All right, can we quickly do a tangent on. We touched it earlier, but last summer, 2024, with the obviously disputed sham election that happened. Can you just give me the players who were on the other side of that, who really won that election and then Maduro refused to cede power, and where these opposition Leaders come from, like, how long they've been around and what their background is.

[B]

Yes. So while Maria Corina has been in a position to this regime from the start, she was an election integrity activist. I think I mentioned this before, saying how the elections were rigged. When I mean rigged, I mean, the beginning, it was dead. People were voting. There was the military forcing people to vote, people in public housing, government employees. But this is part of why they grew the state so that public employees were forced to vote, to get paid and get food and wear red shirts. All the regime employees wore red shirts because that's the color of socialism. So, you know, propaganda censorship in the media. So that's part of how the elections were rigged. And then they began, like, you know, rigging them by just, like, changing the results. Now they don't even bother paying people to vote or like having dead people vote, because why would you just let people vote and then we just announced a different result. I honestly think they took too long. It took too long. Why would you go through all that process of rigging an election when you can just make up the number? Crazy, right? It's way cheaper, easier. People are freer. They can be happy. Go vote. Go participate in your sham. And then we just make it up. And so she has been calling that out for decades. And then she ran for Congress, one in my district in the eastern part of Caracas, which was a big opposition.

[A]

Stronghold, what, years, approximately.

[B]

Oh, wow. It must have been like 2011.

[A]

Okay, so a while ago.

[B]

Yeah. And then she challenged Chavez in the State of the Union in the middle of his State of the Union in Congress, because Chavez was very known for taking speeches that. The speeches, making speeches that took hours.

[A]

Okay, we thought that like a filibuster, if you will.

[B]

Yeah. We thought that he was in drugs because he didn't go to the bathroom for a very, very long time. He had a daily show, too. It was called hello, Mr. President every morning on TV.

[A]

Like fucking Mr. Rogers.

[B]

I guess I got that. Yeah. And he never went to the bathroom for hours. It was really impressive. So we thought he was on something, maybe in his own supply, you know, maybe. So Maria Karina challenged him in the middle of the speech, call him a thief for stealing private property, that he was a crook, a criminal, all these things. She was eventually beaten, and later, not that moment, Chavez just kind of mocked her or something. Then he died. And then she was kicked out of Congress illegally. And then they barred her from running. Then they barred her from leaving the country. And then she eventually became the Opposition leader after several people, because several people were proven to be actually on the pay of the regime. Other opposition members, even the people who ran against Chavez and Maduro, turns out they were all on the take.

[A]

It's a sham, Total sham.

[B]

It's all a sham. It's like if you lose, even the winner was paid.

[A]

Before Chavez changed the constitution and changed how the government was set up, obviously there was still something called a Congress in place. But before he did that, what was the setup like in the United States? Obviously, we had the judiciary and then Congress, three branches.

[B]

We had a Senate, we had a lower house.

[A]

He got rid of the Senate, right?

[B]

He got rid of the Senate. Uni. Unicameral Congress, just to make passing laws easier.

[A]

God, everything goes back to ancient Rome, bro. Same they did there, right?

[B]

I know, yeah. Separation of powers. Like we were a federal, you know, with the states that run the police. Right. You couldn't have the states running the police if you're going to implement a dictatorship, because what if they rebel against you and then they use the police as a military force? Right. Yeah, with guns. So he federalized all the police forces and he had the military be. The police was there. So the National Guard was in the grocery stores.

[A]

In the fucking grocery stores.

[B]

Big guns and military attire in the grocery stores? Everywhere. Of course, in the grocery stores where.

[A]

Before he was in power, was there any private gun ownership?

[B]

Yes, but limited. We never had a second Amendment. And then he got revenue of all.

[A]

Private gun ownership, like forcibly took them from people.

[B]

Yes. I mean, he just legally barred. And then, you know, if you were caught, you would go to prison. So.

[A]

Yeah, that's one issue I'm pretty set on at this point.

[B]

Me too. And it's not because of crime or hunting, it's because of rebellion, which is why the Founding fathers put the Second Amendment.

[A]

Yeah, I'm a believer in that. I, I just. You just see example of example of it over the world, and it's so sinister because then. And you know, the government got things that they got, the killing machines and all that, and they're putting them in grocery stores. That's.

[B]

Oh, yeah, disgusting. Grocery stores. I mean, the middle of the street.

[A]

Now, why. Why did he keep the Congress, though? So he gets rid of the Senate?

[B]

I mean, he kept it, but they passed all the laws he wanted. And then when the opposition, eventually they allowed them to win the Congress, he just ignored them and then kept doing whatever he wanted.

[A]

Madura, is that because constitutionally they weren't able to pass things?

[B]

No, they were but, but I mean, you're the president, you control the military. What are you going to do? Hold a vote in Congress?

[A]

So why didn't he just leave the Senate and in place and do the same thing?

[B]

At the beginning he, he could, he didn't have control of the judiciary or the military. Remember 1999? He only got that later, years later.

[A]

Got it.

[B]

This was a gradual process.

[A]

Okay. Now in 2024 you had the. There was another guy I was talking about. Yeah, yeah, but there was no.

[B]

He's the President elect at Mundo Gonzalez, the old man.

[A]

No, I'm thinking of someone else. There's another guy. I was talking with anthony pompliano like 2 months ago actually about this, and then today I was talking with him, but I forgot to ask him about this. There's another.

[B]

You said Guaido back in 2019, the whole thing with Trump.

[A]

Maybe there's a guy that he actually wanted to potentially bring in here who's an opposition leader from Venezuela who I think, I guess is in the United States right now.

[B]

Guido probably.

[A]

Is that it?

[B]

Younger?

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. What's his story? Well, because I, we, we didn't go past that. I didn't look into it and yeah.

[B]

Became president of Congress in 2019 after the opposition was allowed to like get Congress in 2015. And then like how they tried to like, like legally in the sham legal system the regime started was they tried to impeach and remove Maduro and then like say that the 2018 election was rigged, therefore Maduro is not the president. The president is the president of Congress who's the constitutional successor. Right. Obviously none of that really matters. I mean, obviously the election was rigged. They were right. And then Trump kind of like recognized Wado and that was the whole thing in 2019. But then he failed because the US didn't actually follow through on doing anything. And then why you escaped and you.

[A]

Know, the whole deal and then it turned. What was this lady's name again? The opposition?

[B]

Maria Corina. Maria.

[A]

So, so then she.

[B]

So she's the one who really rose to prominence after that.

[A]

Got it. Okay. So she is now she's in Venezuela right now.

[B]

She's the most popular. No, she's not. Remember, she went to Norway to accept the Nobel Prize. The U. S. Sneaked her out and I don't know where she is, but she's abroad and so this is important.

[A]

She needs to go back in there.

[B]

I know she needs to get back. Edmundo needs to get back. But first, I mean, we need the US to pressure the current regime leadership left to say, it's what I said earlier. You have to give power to these people. You have to let them in. As soon as they go in, there's going to be mass protests Right. In their favor. That's going to help. And then we need the regime to peacefully give the positions to them.

[A]

So these people, just looking at this from a bargaining perspective, they're going to want to keep their wealth, they're going to want to keep their freedom. And when they pass over the government to the people, the people of Venezuela are not going to want them there. Which means they're probably going to have to go somewhere.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

Who's taking them?

[B]

Probably Russia, but I'm not sure if Putin wants them. Right. So maybe Qatar. Qatar is a country that has been willing to cooperate with both sides. I mean, they're, they're bad people, the leadership, obviously, in Qatar, but they have a U.S. military base. You know, they have a lot of U.S. interests that they care about, so maybe them. But, like, would they really want to live in Qatar? I don't know.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I don't particularly care where they go as long as they go.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Right. But I'm happy for them to keep everything. The problem is that right now they're. They're able to stay. Not just keep everything, but keep building more.

[A]

Right, that. Well, that would be the issue for sure, if anything.

[B]

I mean, if they keep what Maduro left over, they just got richer by taking Maduro as part of the wealth.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. It's like rid of one of the.

[B]

Guys who would divide.

[A]

They're like, all right, we'll give up the government, but we're. You can split his part now, right? Yeah. Wow, that's crazy. But you were saying that there is also like a. A small coalition, or I shouldn't say small, but there's some sort of coalition of some of the other governments in South America that seems to be forming already today. Who's come out in support of this together? Who are they and how does that work?

[B]

So this is important.

[A]

Oh, here we go.

[B]

Yeah. I put it. There is so all the governments of these countries. Argentina, of course, Javier Milei has been a big supporter from the start. The president of Chile, the new president who got elected, the conservative guy, the Dominican Republic, put out the best statement in my opinion. Luis Sabina there, the president, where he said he wants the Dominican Republic to help to re. Establish. Establish the peace inside Venezuela. And that, to me, sounds like volunteering military force to me. And I would totally welcome it because we do need something that would be helpful to re. Establish the peace.

[A]

Has he been a longtime critic of the regime?

[B]

Oh, absolutely. I mean, Maduro Splain was seized by him in the Dominican Republic.

[A]

Actually there's. So there's also Panama too, and Ecuador is a very interesting one.

[B]

Yeah. The president of Ecuador, Daniel Noble, he's a big US ally.

[A]

Yeah. So have you looked into like, what's going on there with the narco trafficking and stuff?

[B]

Yeah, I know it's a big problem.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, he's trying to fight the.

[A]

Whole crime thing, but I've had Luis Navia. Okay, hit me up left and right for legit. A year and a half about this. So Luis Navia was on my podcast for episode 221 and 222. He was like the lead smuggler for the cartels around the world for. For two decades.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

He was caught in Operation Journey in Venezuela, actually. I believe in 2000 it was 15 different countries caught him. All, all the United States agencies that were involved, you know, took him down. And, and you'd never believe the guy's story if not for the fact that literally all. All the federal guys are like, yeah, no, like he legit did the. I mean you can't verify every single behind the scenes story. But as far as like who he was and what he did, kid, like, holy. Like he was the real deal. And he's been, he's been calling me, he's like, you're not gonna believe what's happening in Ecuador, man. Crazy down there. He's just saying that it's the next like narco stronghold because they've essentially created and I don't know much about this, so people in the comments, please help me out. I'm just going off of what Luis has told me. They've essentially created a safe haven for these guys to be able to. To funnel money, it sounds like also potentially like funnel drugs, I think even fucking.

[B]

No, what you're saying is that the government in Ecuador is collaborating.

[A]

That's what it sounds like. The government at least is doing a, you know, like in the town, like, no, look policy or whatever. And it has created a massive underbelly that he thinks is going to explode. And I've. There were other people, I can't remember who they are who were in my ear about this as well. Well, saying like this is an issue and it def. I don't know if we can find this. It might have been like vice, if they're even still around they did a documentary.

[B]

What I can tell you is that Ecuador has been extremely cooperative with the United States. That's why they even had a visit by Secretary of DHS Christian Oem Rubio by Hexe. So they've been very cooperative and I'm very much anti Maduro. And they also have a lot of the government. Government and they also have a lot of Venezuelan refugees that it's become a big problem.

[A]

Interesting.

[B]

Because it's very, very poor people.

[A]

So here we go. When is this from Deef? Do we have a date? 2023. Okay. Yeah.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So this is like a year before Luis. Luis was probably telling me about this. Like June 2024 was probably the first.

[B]

A few years ago they had this big issue. They already cracked down on those gangs is my understanding. And I'm not really sure when. Nobody was elected. I think it was that year too.

[A]

What was that? Just deep. If you can go up. What was the title? So people out there can check this out. Mexican cartels are turning once peaceful Ecuador into a narco war zone. And yeah, that's what you're saying. He's like, there was. This is like a landing pad for. For the Mexican cartels and some of the other South American cartels. But I got admittedly like, I'm bringing that up because I saw it on the screen that they were one of the countries. I do have to look into that more and what that is. So if people out there have some thoughts or more information on that, please leave that in the comments section along with some links if you have them. But either way, we're talking about five different countries, sizable countries in South America on day one, having their leaders release statements in support of a peaceful transition to a new power structure.

[B]

Can we put this tweet up by Francisco Poleo?

[A]

Yeah, just now let me say. Can you. Can you text it to me? Yeah, and then I'll send it over to.

[B]

I think we need to talk about this.

[A]

Who is this?

[B]

Francisco is a journalist in Venezuela. Sorry, I have a lot of text, so I'm trying. Here it is.

[A]

No, it's all right.

[B]

You sent it to you.

[A]

All right, hopefully that comes through. Here we go. I got it. So default give this to you right now. We'll put this up. So this is a journalist. Where is he located? Again, I'm sorry.

[B]

Well, he's in the US now, but he's a very well connected journalist. He's talking about the U.S. government strategy. Okay, default.

[A]

Incoming. So this was a statement he released today.

[B]

Yeah, this is what his sources are saying of what's the transition plan. And I think that's very likely to be true, what he's saying.

[A]

All right, so Delsey Rodriguez. This is from Francisco Paleo. As you said, Delsey Rodriguez and the core of the regime's leadership are negotiating with the United States as we speak. This is not a sudden pivot. It is the result of a conclusion reached in Washington over months. The US does not believe that Maria Karina Machado and the opposition have the operational capacity to seize power in Venezuela because they do not control or meaningly fracture the. Meaningfully fracture the military. I was going to ask you about that, but here we go. If they did, power would have shifted immediately after the 2024 presidential election. It did not. For a long period, U.S. officials, including Marco Rubio, were in constant communication with Machado and her team. They were asked repeatedly for proof of a concrete plan, not just to win power symbolically, but to retain it in practice. Chain of command, military alignment, institutional control, day after governance. The answers were consistently evasive, justified by security concerns, but never substantiated. At that point, from the US Government's perspective, the opposition ceased to look like a viable transition mechanism and began to look like a political wager with no enforcement arm. The plan now on the table is for Delsey Rodriguez to stabilize the country with US Backing. So that's Maduro's VP and then call for general elections. This is not framed as an endorsement of the regime, but as a containment and transition structure strategy. Washington is explicit about one thing. This is not a partnership of equals. The United States is running the process. The lines are being managed through Rubio, and the leverage is entirely asymmetric. Delsey is the instrument, not the center of gravity. U.S. officials also assess that Delsey's harsh public rhetoric today was aimed inward at the Chavista base, not outward. That messaging is understood as domestic signaling. Nevertheless, as of now, negotiations with the United States are. Are ongoing as we speak. Is that the end of. Yeah.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay. A lot going on there. Thoughts.

[B]

So I think that's probably true that, you know, the. The regime still has the operational control of the country. And so the question is, can the. Can Trump pressure Del C to have a peaceful transition in a matter of months?

[A]

In a matter of months.

[B]

Because, remember, there is no transition under the Trump administration. Delphi is going to stay in power after Trump leaves office. Do you think if the Democrats win the White House or even another Republican, do you think they're going to do what Trump just did? I think Only Trump has the balls.

[A]

So I would agree, I would agree with you on that with respect to what just happened last night. But if it did already happen, and now that bell has been rung and Maduro's here, and we do know that, at least on this issue, the Democrats are Democrats and Republicans both don't like the guy and want someone else in charge.

[B]

The Democrats, a lot of them are criticizing Trump. They have been vote, but they have been voting to take away his military ability to do this. I mean, every month they're hosting a vote in Congress to take away the presidential authority to have military action in Venezuela.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And they come very close to getting the votes because there's like the isolationist Republicans voting with them. So, like you have Ron Paul, you have Thomas Massey, you have Margaret Taylor Green, all voting with that. Democrats and the Democrats are likely to win the House. So they're gonna be able to pass the resolution through the House and then they just need 51 votes in the Senate. It depends on the man.

[A]

When they get into power, when the shoe's on the other foot, as they say, they don't give a fuck about that because now they don't have to vote Trump out with it. They just do what they want.

[B]

Of course. But then imagine there's no transition. Then Trump leaves office and say Gavin Newsom becomes president. You think Gavin Newsom is gonna do a military operation to take Del C down? No, no, they're not going to do anything. And then they're going to stay in power forever.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Without Madur?

[A]

Yeah. I mean, 2028's a while. The election in 2028, to while off. I would be surprised. I'd be shocked if there wasn't. Like you say, this needs to happen in months, and I agree with you, the sooner the better now that this bell has been rung. But like, even if it was really a colossal cluster and it took a year or something, I mean, we're still in the middle of Trump's terms term, potentially.

[B]

Potentially. But, you know, it's a risk because then they can like do like a fake transition. Then as soon as Trump leaves, they can come back and do a coup. Right. This is why you need to have all of that leadership out of Venezuela.

[A]

How do you fix the mil? The big thing is the military. How do you get.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

First of all, let's start at the core here. The kids who end up holding the guns in the grocery stores.

[B]

They're poor kids that just want money.

[A]

So they weren't true Believers?

[B]

Of course not.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I mean, they do try to indoctrinate them, but most of the time it's just that they have a Cuban attache in every unit to make sure that nobody is moving out of line.

[A]

So let me think, like, way too much of a simpleton right now, but let's just try to paint a simple scenario. You turn on some of the oil rigs, you get some money flowing, and suddenly you get some cash into the pockets of the. The other resistance. And you go to these same kids and say, hey, what are you making? Are you making. Whatever. I'll make something up. Five bucks an hour. Okay, well, now you're making ten.

[B]

Oh, no, no, it's not even five bucks.

[A]

You know what I mean? Like, I'm making up numbers. It's not even bucks. It's boulevards. But, you know, like, they, like, you basically say, okay, well, you made five, now you're making 10.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And suddenly they're like, you have my allegiance. Is it that simple?

[B]

Well, yes, but it's also, we need to kick out all the Cubans out of the military, all the Cuban regime people out of the country. Really?

[A]

Are there a lot of people who we don't know are Cuban, or can we literally point and be like, yo, that's a Cuban you.

[B]

Well, I mean, unless they're really well trained, you really know, even by their accent. That's right. So get rid of them. And, and, you know, I mean, where they were born, I mean, it's not difficult, but. But there. I mean, there's different estimates, but the estimates are that there's over 10,000 thousand in the country.

[A]

That's a sizable number. But, like, if we know. If they know who they are, do step one there.

[B]

Yeah, but then kick them out. Is Del C. Rodriguez gonna make sure they're kicked out?

[A]

No.

[B]

Or are they going to be foreign troops making sure that they get kicked out?

[A]

Now, this is a very valid point because. No, the answer to your Delsey Rodriguez one. That's what I would think. Am I wrong?

[B]

I think she has no interest in doing it right.

[A]

Exactly. And then the foreign troops think, big problem, so you have to have it from the internal.

[B]

Well, I. I think it would be positive if there were foreign troops for.

[A]

The transition on the. For.

[B]

Positive for Venezuela.

[A]

Do you see why a lot of people in America.

[B]

I'm not saying US Troops, I'm saying foreign troops.

[A]

Who are the foreign troops?

[B]

Argentina, the Dominican Republic, Panama.

[A]

Now, that might make sense if you had a South American colon.

[B]

And even better, you know, they're like Spanish speaking troops.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

I mean, that's kind of useful.

[A]

That might make a lot of sense. And then they'd know who the Cubans are in this case despise very easily. And it's just like, have a good trip home.

[B]

That's right. And Trump willing to persuade those countries then to. To put in. To put those in.

[A]

Now that's interesting. So these countries that have already come out and support Spanish speaking countries in South America all have the same interest, peaceful transition of power.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

Maybe I'm getting way too ahead of myself, but this sounds like a very logical one.

[B]

I mean, there are foreign troops in Haiti right now. I mean, a bunch of countries like the Canadians and the Canyons have troops in Haiti.

[A]

The Canyons have troops, yeah. No, yeah.

[B]

Really? They wanted an African country because of being black. That's really why. And the Dominicans really didn't want to go in because of their history. Right.

[A]

But either way, that makes a ton of sense. That could work.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You get the Cubans out and now you just find a way to financially incentivize the rank and file of the military and then deal with the leadership who might have been actually loyal.

[B]

I think that would be the ideal situation.

[A]

That doesn't seem.

[B]

I mean, ideally it would be also Colombia, but Colombia is on the hook with Maduro until their election in the summer. Yeah. That doesn't knife. Colombia flips in the summer. This gets even easier.

[A]

That's what I'm saying. Like forget Colombia though, for a minute even forget them. I know that would be very helpful. But like, this doesn't seem like that hard.

[B]

Yes, it seems really there's a big enforcement mechanism. Right. Because then not only do you have the threat of Trump and all the US Navy in the coast, you have all these countries with troops inside that they would force Delsey to accept. And then Delsey has really people to fear there. Right.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Guns.

[A]

I watched a video this afternoon. It was like an AI channel, you know, with like the AI voiceover and all the graphics. It looked beautiful though.

[B]

Oh, wow.

[A]

That was breaking down the naval mechanisms already in place with that the United States has like off the coast of Venezuela and how it works. Like people can Google this, like, like Venezuela war explained or something like that. And you will see like a map, one that talks about like, here's how it would happen. It was posted in the early morning hours of Saturday when the, when the invasion happened. But the protocol for like if Venezuela tried X, then the US would do Y, Z, A, B, C, D, K. Like it was like, oh, we have.

[B]

Zero threat from Venezuela. I mean, they can't do anything to the United States. United States. They don't even have the capability. They don't have the capability. They barely know how to fly their planes. There are very few planes that Venezuela has.

[A]

Now. What are you hearing about the actual mission? I mean, we've been beating around the bush on this the whole time. The actual mission that took place, which again, as of right now, zero casualties. Pretty amazing.

[B]

We know that for sure. We know that for sure. Zero U.S. casualties.

[A]

So that's awesome. Love to hear that. But you have all these Delta Force Apaches fly in, toss some bombs.

[B]

Have you seen the video?

[A]

Oh, light it up. Like the fourth.

[B]

You see the White House meme that they posted on Instagram and Twitter? It's amazing. So look up the White House Twitter account there. Now that you're there, it's, it's so good because Maduro had this video very similar to Noriega, the Panamanian dictator that got also arrested challenging Trump. Trump, if you're brave, come and take me, you coward. And then like they did the whole.

[A]

Yes, we can't play because it has, it has.

[B]

There it is, there it is.

[A]

Copyright music. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Where you see the video, like down there.

[B]

Don't be late in arriving. And then look, look at the place.

[A]

I was waiting for them to post the video where. Because Maduro was saying, don't come here. And I was waiting for the video where Trump's like, I'm gonna come. You know that, you know the one I'm talking about.

[B]

Oh, oh, I'm gonna come. Yes.

[A]

Where it used to be like Kamala Harris being like, like, don't come. Yes, do not come. He's like, I'm gonna go. They didn't post that one. But yeah, I mean, you see the video, they boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And then obviously like smash and grab. Maduro, who was, he's wearing like Nike.

[B]

Nike tech.

[A]

Yeah, he was wearing Nike.

[B]

Oh, he's very rich. You know, remember Chavez used to say being rich is bad with a Rolex on his wrist.

[A]

That's right. That's how I want my, my communists saying.

[B]

That's how socialism works.

[A]

That's how it works more for me, less for the.

[B]

But socialism for the capitalism for me.

[A]

They exactly. They go in, they take them. There's so there's no anti aircraft missiles going up.

[B]

I think they tried to hit a helicopter and they did, but they failed. And the Helicopter was able to return like one. Yeah. They have nothing.

[A]

So my question is based, and it's early here, based on any sources you have or what you're hearing, is this a situation where like the United States had significant. Had a significant number of intelligence assets within the organizations here within Venezuela? Of course not. No. Not just like regular citizens, but like people.

[B]

No, no. Yeah.

[A]

Government.

[B]

How do you think they found where Maduro was right where he was sleeping?

[A]

It's not like one or two people essentially, though.

[B]

Of course not.

[A]

It's a lot.

[B]

I mean, remember Trump announced a couple months ago, ago, we have the CIA inside and we have CIA operations. I love that. They just did it openly. Yeah. We sent the CIA to Venezuela. And look, it was true. It's funny because the Maduro regime and even Chavez before had been saying for years, the CIA, you know, they're trying to overthrow us and they're the ones cutting off the electricity. It was. And Venezuela was unfortunately lost on its own blackouts because of the failure of the electricity. Electricity was free, so they would be not investing. There were explosions or regular blackouts. Right. And I remember for many years they have blamed Marco Ruby specifically. Well, he was a senator.

[A]

For what?

[B]

For the blackouts.

[A]

How?

[B]

Oh, he hacked us and kind of.

[A]

Marco Rubio.

[B]

I know, a senator and under Obama, like, yeah, sure, Obama was collaborating with Rubio, of course. Anyway, now they actually did it. I don't know if you saw Trump in the statement, he said, said it was very dark in Caracas because we. We did something there to make it dark. And. And I thought that was a really funny hint. And we cut off the electricity.

[A]

Well, you know, in all seriousness, though, building up to this, the blackouts there are crazy.

[B]

I know.

[A]

And we take that. We take. I live for granted what we have. But like. Yeah, man. How many out how.

[B]

Sometimes. So my dad was the president of our buildings Homeowners association.

[A]

They let you have that.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. All right.

[A]

So you still got homeowners association on communists, unfortunately.

[B]

You know how it works. But you needed it. So. So we used it for rationing the water and of the building. Right. Because when you have no electricity.

[A]

Oh, that's right.

[B]

The water runs out very quick. Or when you have no water, you know, the go you. We have a tank. Right. That we're rationing the community.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So it's like you can only shower from 5 to 6am and open the faucet and so that, you know, you had to pick to ration it.

[A]

Yeah. When I, When I talk with. With Christian The Venezuelan editor, my friend. Like, he'll have those periods where, like, he goes dark. It's not because he ain't working. It's because the electricity goes off.

[B]

Oh, wait, Christian's still there.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

Oh, I think he's here.

[A]

No, I've been trying to get him here. I've been talking to immigration attorneys. They're like, bro, you got wait till 20, 28. It a happen.

[B]

Yeah, no, it's impossible with this restrictions.

[A]

It's real hard. It's like, they're like, you got to pay $100,000 just to get permission to ask a question about whether or not you could pay another $100,000 just to get permission to see if you can fly him here.

[B]

It's a shame.

[A]

Yeah, it's a shame. But, like, you know, we'll figure that out eventually. Hopefully he watches this. Yeah, he's. He will. He's going to. Well, actually, this one he won't because we're putting this out right away. So he will not be doing the intro to this one, but he'll definitely be watching it. And it's like when you talk with him and. And like, he. It'll just go dark for 13 hours. You're like, holy, man. Like, we freak out when we lose electricity here in a rainstorm for two hours. It's like the world.

[B]

You know, they began blaming climate change in Venezuela at the beginning.

[A]

It's like, oh, they were blaming climate change?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, it was climate change because our main electricity source in the past was a huge hydroelectric plant, one of the largest in the planet. We created this huge reservoir called Elgori.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

It was great, you know, because Venezuela then got all its electricity from hydroelectric, and then that means we burned less oil and gas that we could export. So that's good economically.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But then, you know, it started failing. The government didn't do maintenance, and so we started had to burn our own oil. And then like, you know, those things fail too. And that's a problem.

[A]

Yeah. It's funny that a lot of the. A lot of the western nations, when they were. When they were actually taking Maduro serious or seriously, it was like over climate change or something like that. Like, oh, we're gonna try to get them on our side with that. It's like, dude, you're not helping your cause.

[B]

Well, you know, there were a lot of oil spills in Venezuela by the Venezuelan regime's oil company.

[A]

You mean that the. The government run oil people weren't good at managing the oil?

[B]

Oh, wait, you know how they clean the oil spills.

[A]

Oh, no.

[B]

People without shirts, like just in regular plain clothing getting in the river with buckets.

[A]

Oh my God.

[B]

With the crude oil touching their skin. It's the. You can look it up. It's the Guatepeacher river oil spill.

[A]

Apiche river oil spill.

[B]

It's a really weird name. But if you just G U A r Guarapiche and then river oil spill and you can. You'll find. Find all kinds of.

[A]

They'd force people to go in there and just.

[B]

Or paid them. You know, they probably what a cent and they do it. But it's. I don't know the illnesses that you can get from that.

[A]

Oh, it's. I can't probably make it worth it.

[B]

Oh, great.

[A]

All right. Reuters is not let.

[B]

Oh, there you go. Oh, but that doesn't have pictures. We want to see the pictures. Yeah. You know, socialists are actually very famous for causing the greatest environmental tragedies in human history. You heard of the. Of the RLC in the Soviet Union, right? That totally dried down because of the Soviets dried it out and now it's just salt. Because that's what happens when you have no profit motive. When you have a profit motor. You have private property, you want to maintain something to profit from it.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

If not, you get the. Oh yeah, there it is. Oh, Pan and post. I know them. Oh, look, look, there's the people cleaning it up with buckets. All right. Crude oil. The socialists taking care of the environment.

[A]

It's just crazy that they sit on that much. They sit on a gold mine, literally like the world's. That was, that was what Kurt Metzger was pointing out when he was in here. I didn't realize it was like literally the biggest. And they somehow have run the country dry because of how bad their policies are.

[B]

Are. You know, a country doesn't get rich because of its natural resources. It gets rich because of its freedom. Natural resources help. Of course, Dubai is very wealthy because of oil, but the UAE is still less rich than Singapore. Singapore has no natural resources. How did they get rich? Because they let people be free. They allow free trade. They allow their human skills. I mean, it's human capital that matters most. Yes, America has a lot of that, but America is also blessed with amazing natural resources. So you had that combination is even better. But, but, but I think freedom is what matters most.

[A]

Now you, you've talked about needing the. The outcome here. Really idealistically needing to be in the next few months. You see that election happens Some sort of peaceful transition to power. We obviously just talked about having potentially the other their five speaking nations come in there with some troops to help assist with this. Outside of the obvious of like Dely just being like you and trying to go down in a, in a blaze of fire right here, what are some other ways that this could go wrong?

[B]

You know, I think it would go wrong if the Trump administration just declares victory and there's nothing. That's another risk. Right. You know, it's a risk to do something now. They could. I mean, they can plausibly do nothing. I don't think they will because Trump was very explicit today. We don't want this to be in vain. We want. He specifically said peace, justice and prosperity for the Venezuelan people. And so that really encouraged me. But that's always a risk. There's going to be pressure. It's going to be a lot of political pressure for him from some people to do that. I mean, the Maduro regime has been loving themselves. They put money into loving here. Yeah. I don't even remember the guy who Tucker had talking about Venezuela, Robert Amsterdam.

[A]

I didn't see that.

[B]

His whole episode in Venezuela with this man named Robert Absternam. He's on the payroll. He's a Farah registered agent that got paid, I think, $20 million.

[A]

We know this.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. $20 million.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. So we, We've proven that he's on that.

[B]

Yeah. He failed the report. He's there. And that's. That's the guest on Venezuela. Very impartial. Of course. I guess I'm not partial, of course, because I'm opposed to it. I'm from.

[A]

No, no.

[B]

But I'm not getting paid $20 million.

[A]

That's right. You're pointing out someone who's not, who's not disclosing that you're partial.

[B]

Disclose it.

[A]

You're partial because you live through it. You live through a horrible regime. You've watched it hurt your friends, you've watched it hurt your family, and you are supporting a regime like that come down, which makes sense. So if someone else is coming in to make an argument saying like, hey, they're bad, but hey, by the way, here's why this isn't good. But really, behind the scenes, they're being paid by those very people to basically do damage control.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

And they're not disclosing that. You have every right.

[B]

Unethical.

[A]

It's completely unethical. I was totally unaware of that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's inexcusable if that's the case. That's. That's Amsterdam.

[B]

Oh, it was four.

[A]

Okay, can we scroll all the way up D if I want to read all the way this. That's totally inexcusable. So Tucker Carlson recently gave a bizarre defense of Venezuela being socially conservative. Many were baffled. Turns out his guest, Robert Amsterdam, is still an active FAR registered agent of Venezuela. He earned 4 million in just the first four months of the engagement from the Majuro regime starting in January 2020. According to the relevant FARA filing see below, Amsterdam was engaged to prior persuade the US to mitigate or remove sanctions on Maduro's Venezuela. His contract was officially signed by the Attorney General of Venezuela. Since the US at the time did not recognize Maduro as legitimate, Tucker did not discuss Venezuela with Amsterdam. But during that Friday show, Tucker said that the guest was one of the people who I talked to the most off camera about what is happening to the Christian population of the world. It is unclear how much Amsterdam is currently being paid by. Okay, all right, so there's a lot going. So he didn't talk to him about Venezuela on camera, but like the one.

[B]

Where he said about Maduro being socially conservative.

[A]

Okay, but that's a mistake on Tucker's team. Has to. You got to know that. You got to know you're bringing on a fucking guy. And better yet. Yeah, because things happen fast in this business. Sometimes if you find this out after you have to say something. We didn't know that. Obviously that makes an issue with some of the. Some of the other points that he could be making.

[B]

You know, Tucker, when he was on Fox, also had this woman, she lives in New York City, a. A Pril. Pril. Something like that.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

She's. I think she's married to. What's his name? Max Blumenthal.

[A]

Max Blumenthal from Grayscale?

[B]

Yeah. Evil people, Ayana, Occupy the Venezuela.

[A]

You think they're evil?

[B]

Evil?

[A]

Why are they evil?

[B]

Because they support every dictatorship. Evil dictatorship in the world.

[A]

Why do you say they support every evil dictatorship?

[B]

I mean, they support Venezuela, they supported Assad, they support Maduro, they support Russia, Putin, China.

[A]

All right, hold on.

[B]

I. I talked to Max himself a few months ago.

[A]

Do they sport them or. Or are they just radical?

[B]

No, I think they're support them unpaid.

[A]

I mean, you think they're paid. That's.

[B]

Max worked for the Russian state tv. What are you talking about? He worked for the Russian government. He worked for Russia Today. That's working for the Russian government.

[A]

All right, but talking about, like, Venezuela and some of These other places or whatever.

[B]

And then he defends Venezuela as a democracy. And then he meets with Maduro.

[A]

Yes, he meets. I'm asking you. I don't know.

[B]

I'm telling you. I'm telling you for reasons real. He met with Majora. He told me straight in my face that America is a more tyrannical country than Venezuela.

[A]

That's crazy.

[B]

Go live in Venezuela.

[A]

He told you that?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

That's crazy.

[B]

I mean, this. This really evil people. He. Ayana Praying Pill. She occupied the Venezuelan embassy in 2019 after the US kicked Maduro out. She occupied it. She esquired it in the embassy with a bunch of Code Pink nut jobs. Then the D.C. police kicked them out, and all the Venezuelans outside were protesting against these Americans occupying our embassy.

[A]

This world is such a mess, man.

[B]

Like, these are not honest people, man. And it's really shameful.

[A]

I might. I was. I. I don't know the gray zone that well. I see some big stories when they come sometimes, but that's. What if. If he told you that.

[B]

That.

[A]

That's wild. That's what I mean. It's like, you should be. Daniel, you should be able to criticize the dark underbelly and the evil that can happen even in a good place like America.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

You should be able to do that. You should be able to root out the people who are objectively bad. But I feel like now, I mean.

[B]

Have you heard of Code Pink?

[A]

We do, of course.

[B]

Funded by the Chinese.

[A]

It's a. It's a, you know, it's a activist organization. I don't really take any of those places seriously. But it's like, you should be able to hold those thoughts of like, okay, here's all the bad stuff. Let's get rid of that and not throw the baby out with the bath water and then say, therefore all bad and there and there. And let's take another step, therefore pick objectively bad place, like, I don't know, a Maduro in Venezuela. And say, you know, actually they're misunderstood. I feel like we do that all the time now. And I. I agree with you on that.

[B]

But there's people who are very honest about it and who. You can have a principal disagreement on this. You know, Thomas Massey is one of them, I think Ron Paul, too. But you also have to understand that these regimes want to advance this narrative. So they pay people to do this because it's in their interest. And that's how all these groups pop out. And they're not honest. Do you remember the Palestine occupation at Colombia.

[A]

Oh yeah, that was all cringe.

[B]

Half of the people arrested were not students. One of the people arrested who was leading this, his name is Manolo de los Santos. You should look up Manolo. Manolo runs an organization in Manhattan called the People's Force. I know them because they brought three people who worked for Maduro in 2022. And I organized approaches of Venezuelan immigrants against them. Manolo went to Venezuela in 2024 to meet with Maduro. Dance with him.

[A]

That's crazy.

[B]

His personal friends are the dictator of Cuba, Miguel Diaz Canel. These are the people. I mean, these are.

[A]

I don't take any of those protests.

[B]

Seriously, of course, me neither. But I think Americans need to understand that there are foreign authoritarian regimes funding these American run organizations from abroad to destabilize us from the inside because it's in their interest to do so.

[A]

I think that pretty much every. I'm at a point where you should.

[B]

Look up the picture of Manola with the Cuban and the Venezuelan dictators.

[A]

I don't think outside of, in some respects, maybe like the UK and I'll leave it at the uk. I don't think there's really any country in the world that wants to see America continue to do well. I think every, pretty much every country in some way.

[B]

The Canadians really, who defends them, like.

[A]

Yeah, but look at their politics. Look what they keep putting into power, you know. And there's a lot of Canadians obviously who love America. I'm not talking about. Oh yes, right now. We're not talking about people, you know, people are not their governments, but it's like everybody's working against us. And that's why you can't have. It's so difficult to have a principled conversation on like the problems in the Middle east with Israel and Palestine and stuff. Because when I talk to people who are hardcore Zionists and when I talk to people who are hardcore anti Zionist, they will each just point at what is convenient to their side. That they'll be like, do you agree with this? And I'll be like a hundred percent. And they'll be like, great. And, and then I'll be like, yes, now what about these other things over here? And they'll be like, no, no, don't look at that. Depending on which side you're on.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

You know, and it's like I've had these, I've had the exact conversations off camera that are just like mind blowing with people on those two sides of the issue. And I just feel like we've lost our Ability to, in a lot of society to have nuance with these discussions.

[B]

Yes. I'll say too, I think it's important that people understand that there's a lot of evil regimes around the world and that there's such a thing as good versus evil. Not everybody's evil majority is one of the evil ones.

[A]

I would agree.

[B]

There's, you know, you can have this disagreement with the government of Germany, you know, but then Germany is not the major regime.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Even. I mean, the uk. I mean, let's be fair. The UK is not respecting the free speech of its own people.

[A]

Oh, it's a huge problem.

[B]

It's a. I'm very opposed to what's happening.

[A]

Yes. That's why I was even hesitating when.

[B]

I was saying that out.

[A]

I know, I was like, you know.

[B]

I think actually more people have been arrested because of social media posts in the UK than in Venezuela, which is kind of crazy. But obviously it's, you can still call that a dictatorship like Venezuela.

[A]

Right, right.

[B]

They have free elections. You know, you might disagree with the government. And so there is a coalition of really evil regimes who are kleptocrats of different ideologies. Socialists, Islamists, regular kleptocrats like Putin. Right. That are not really socialist, whose only interest is we want to stay in power. Who's our only threat? The United States.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

They're the only ones who can take on us. Germany can take on us. They're not a threat. They're self like most countries.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

So they're conspiring to destroy us from. How can they destroy us? They know they can't invade us, so they're trying to destroy us from within.

[A]

100% completely agree. And I think, I think it's happening everywhere. And I just. That's one thing I wish all Americans, you know, regardless of political leanings, could somehow come together and see and just be like, hold on, put your opinions aside of everywhere else for a second. Not saying get rid of them. We can talk about that later.

[B]

That's right. That's right.

[A]

But like, like none of them are working for us.

[B]

Yes. The question is what to do. And we can have reasonable discussions about what to do, but we need to understand they're working against us and we're on the same team here.

[A]

That's right. That's right, man. Well, I am very eager to see how this all turns out. I really appreciate you doing this last minute and I appreciate you also like standing in and, and you know, answering some hard questions as well. Of course, I love this, as you understand, it's a complicated situation, but for you and your family and the potential opportunity that if this goes well, could pose, I. I really hope to see that go great so that, you know, you guys can also be able to return to a free and prosperous Venezuela and, and be able to call that place home as well. And your friends don't have to fucking sit in prisons and get to. I mean, it's. It's horrible. So I, I'm wishing you guys all the best and, and I'm. I'm. I'd like to be an optimist on this and, and hope things turn out great.

[B]

Thank you so much, Julian.

[A]

All right, we'll do this again sometime. All right, everybody else, you know what it is. Give it a thought. Get back to me. Peace. Thank you so much for watching this video, guys. If you have not already, please hit that subscribe button before you leave. We post multiple episodes every single week, and this way you'll get a notification when they come out. And if you'd like to check out shorter versions of our content, we have multiple other channels, including Julian Dory Clips where we post 8 to 20 minute clips multiple times every single day, and Julian Dorie Daily where we post one hour podcast episodes from the podcasts that I record multiple times every single week. Those links are in my description below. Go subscribe. Thank you.