Julian Dorey Podcast #379 – “Sinister!” - Cartel Cop on Cartel Occult, “Rape Tree” & Life-Changing Cure | Matt Thomas

Date: February 3, 2026
Host: Julian Dorey
Guest: Matt Thomas (Arizona Sheriff’s Office, retired; 32-year law enforcement career, cartel specialist)

Episode Overview

This gripping episode dives deep into the frontlines of America’s drug war, focusing on the Mexican cartel’s presence and brutality along the Southwest border and within Arizona. Julian sits down with veteran cop Matt Thomas, who spent over three decades battling the Sinaloa cartel and its associates, witnessing the creep of cartel influence, the rise of occult practices among criminals, and the horrors inflicted upon migrants and locals alike. Alongside harrowing stories of violence and trauma, Thomas gives a rare, candid account of his personal quest for healing through psychedelic therapy, namely ketamine, challenging the stigma within law enforcement. This is an intimate, unfiltered look into crime, trauma, culture, and the human cost of the drug war.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Hunt – Life as a Cartel Cop

• Opening Story (00:01):

  • Matt recounts a night raid targeting a cartel enforcer known for carrying grenades and killing his boss to rise up the ranks. A tense night-vision approach into the desert ends in an empty house, making them fear a setup.
  • Quote:

    "Hunting bad guys, hunting men, is the ultimate hunt. That’s somebody that hunts you back." — Matt Thomas [00:01]

• Emergence of Cartels in Arizona (02:03, 03:32):

  • Grew up in South Phoenix in the '70s/'80s, where "mafiosos" (Mexican organized crime) were known but did not wield direct power. Street and prison gangs were more visible.
  • Cartels became prominent in the '90s as Matt entered law enforcement.

• Prison Gangs' Influence (06:31 - 09:56):

  • Explains how prison gangs (e.g., Mexican Mafia) control street gangs and the drug trade, issuing orders from inside prison via a rigid hierarchy.
  • Quote:

    "Dons were sitting in a cell and telling everyone out in the street what to do, and they were like, 'Sir, yes, sir.'" — Julian Dorey [08:43]
    "Dudes on a prison yard directly affect the streets every day... They run the prison yards, too." — Matt Thomas [09:10]

2. Personal History, Upbringing, and Choices

• Early Brush with Crime (10:03):

  • Matt admits to petty childhood mischief—nothing serious, mostly childish antics and some underage drinking/smoking.

• Witnessing the Neighborhood's Transformation (05:43, 68:28):

  • As a teen, drug presence increased but cartel influence only became clear in adulthood.
  • He describes a pivotal moment when a parochial school scholarship and later relocation to a rural town likely steered him from the gang path many friends took—some ending up dead or in prison.

• Family Background (56:52, 57:11):

  • Raised by a strong single mother and WWII-veteran grandparents; played a critical role in imparting values and structure.

3. The Cartel Wars – Violence, Investigations, and the Human Toll

• Undercover Work & Cartel Operations (107:04 - 116:41):

  • Matt gets handpicked for undercover work because of “heart and street knowledge.” Missions range from tactical raids to buy-busts; some involve heavy danger with armed cartel guards and booby-trapped compounds.
  • Notable Quote (Opening Story Redux):

    "The dude we were going after had killed his boss to take that spot...known to carry grenades...I was anticipating getting shot or blown up on." — Matt Thomas [00:01, 112:13]

• Cartel Hierarchy & Street Structure (117:29 - 121:06):

  • By early 2000s, lieutenants and captains operate openly on the US side; a clear hierarchy emerges.
  • Collaboration and sometimes friction with federal agencies like DEA/FBI in multi-level task forces.

4. Borderland Horrors – Human Smuggling, Rape Trees, and Occult Practices

• Rape Trees & Sexual Violence (127:33 - 131:12):

  • Chilling description of "rape trees"—mesquite/palo verde trees in the desert, covered in women’s undergarments as trophies after brutal, repeated assaults by smugglers.
  • Explains:
    • Routine rapes during migrant journeys; some women carry morning-after pills because of "8-10 rapes on this trip."
  • Quote:

    "She said, ‘I take these every time I get raped’...she said it just like that, like it was not a big deal." — Matt Thomas [129:12]

• Human Trafficking & Organ Harvesting (126:54):

  • Outlines reports of cartel-forced C-sections, child organ trafficking, often bought by Americans—a horror confirmed by government busts.
  • Quote:

    "They would abduct young mothers, take them to trap houses for C sections...take the baby alive...and it was real." — Julian Dorey [126:54]

• Cartel Occultism & Santa Muerte (150:03 - 160:46):

  • Describes the rise of Santa Muerte (“Saint Death”) and narco-saint shrines; asks how faith and ritual are twisted toward evil ends.
  • Quote:

    "They started caring less about humanity...they would basically pray to Santa Muerte, like, kill my enemies, let me get my loads of drugs through, give me as much money and power as possible." — Matt Thomas [154:20]

  • Matt visited botanicas (“yebarías”) for undercover work; wife, steeped in Mexican spiritual traditions, warned him of the “evil” presence there.

5. Personal Cost – Trauma, Therapy, and Psychedelic Healing

• On-duty Trauma & Guilt (34:19 – 43:46):

  • Matt shares vivid incidents—colleagues killed in action and the psychological scarring (“movie on a loop”), survivor’s guilt, and unhealthy recklessness early in his career.
  • Quote:

    “I would lose my shit so easily...I became such an asshole. But you think the world are the assholes...but you’re actually the one, right?” — Matt Thomas [53:58]

• Ketamine Therapy & Changing Police Culture (11:59 - 55:46):

  • Details the taboo around police officers seeking therapy; how psychological symptoms like late-onset claustrophobia, sleeplessness, and emotional numbness built up.
  • Fights state certification boards to be allowed ketamine therapy; undergoes six microdosing sessions complemented by mandatory counseling.
  • Ketamine experience involved confronting traumatic memories, dulling emotional pain, and “debriefing” with therapists.
  • Quote:

    "Every time you'd go through a session...the emotion attached to it kind of either goes away or dulls...not causing you to emotionally break down." — Matt Thomas [38:40]
    "It changed my personality...much calmer, much more like, 'whatever, man.'" — Matt Thomas [53:58]

• Importance of Officer Wellness Support (23:44 - 25:43):

  • The "100 Club" provides first-responder wellness grants, including for psychedelic therapy.
  • Matt recognizes his position helped move the needle for officer acceptance, pledges to advocate for others to seek help.

6. Border Policy, Politics & Society

• Immigration, Political Blindness & Human Cost (133:07 - 138:23):

  • Matt remarks on the disconnect between DC politicians and border realities—cartels exploit policies to run trafficking networks.
  • Stresses his love for Mexican culture and recognizes America's role in "incentivizing" dangerous illegal crossings.
  • Quote:

    “Our border policies were allowing a criminal organization to thrive on people...we were complicit in that, whether we want to admit it or not, as a country.” — Matt Thomas [135:44]

• Sheriffs, Law Enforcement, and Rule-of-Law (139:35 - 140:51):

  • Discusses how constitutional sheriffs (e.g., Mark Lamb) serve as last line of defense against unconstitutional orders, referencing COVID restrictions and church closures.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Cartel Hunt:

  "To me, hunting bad guys, hunting men, is the ultimate hunt, because that's somebody that hunts you back."
  — Matt Thomas [44:54]

• On Psychological Trauma & Survivor's Guilt:

  "That survivor's guilt is real...you can tell me all day long that, hey, you shouldn't feel that way, but...I can't stop that feeling."
  — Matt Thomas [42:52]

• On Ketamine’s Impact:

  "The cool thing was...you'll always remember...but the emotion attached to it kind of either goes away or dulls so it's not causing you to emotionally break down."
  — Matt Thomas [38:40]

• On Cartel Occult Practices:

  "They started caring less about humanity...they would basically pray to Santa Muerte, like, kill my enemies, let me get my loads of drugs through, give me as much money and power as possible."
  — Matt Thomas [154:20]

• On the Open Border Debate:

  “Our border policies were allowing a criminal organization to thrive on people...we were complicit in that, whether we want to admit it or not, as a country.”
  — Matt Thomas [135:44]

• On Survivor’s Mentality:

  “I didn't think I was going to make it this long, and then...I was never suicidal, but I didn't give a fuck. I was looking for death.”
  — Matt Thomas [46:58]

• Rape Trees:

  “You'd be out in the desert and you would see this tree with bras and panties all over it, and you're like, what the fuck...it's where they're raping the women and leaving it as a trophy.”
  — Matt Thomas [128:33]

Important Timestamps

Opening Cartel Raid Story: [00:01]
Cartel Emergence in Arizona/Hierarchy: [03:32], [117:29], [121:06]
Ketamine Therapy Journey: [11:59], [17:23], [23:44], [38:40]
Rape Trees & Trafficking: [127:33], [129:12]
Cartel Occult/Santa Muerte: [150:03], [154:20]
Law Enforcement Trauma & Survivor’s Guilt: [34:19], [42:52], [53:58]
Border Policy & Open Borders: [133:07], [135:44]
Family and Law Enforcement: [170:17], [172:37]

Tone and Speaker Style

The conversation is raw, streetwise, candid, and at times darkly funny. Matt is frank about the brutality he witnessed, the moral lines blurred by cartel and gang culture, and the toll it took on him personally and at home. Julian asks deeply empathetic and challenging questions, with a “no-bullshit,” conversational style, and brings a New York edge to the discussion.

Conclusion

This episode is a rare and honest window into the moral, personal, and psychological battles fought by law enforcement on America’s southern border. Matt Thomas pulls no punches describing the cartel as a calculated, brutal “business” enabled by American demand and political dysfunction. Counterbalancing the darkness, he opens up about the need for better officer mental health solutions, destigmatizing therapy, and finding hope on the road to healing.

Highly recommended for anyone interested in true crime, law enforcement, the border crisis, cartel culture, or the future of policing.