Julian Dorey Podcast #380

Guest: Dr. Garrett Ryan (Toldinstone)
Topic: Ancient Rome, Greece, the Vatican-Egypt connection, Cleopatra, and the Odyssey
Date: February 6, 2026

Overview

This episode features historian and author Dr. Garrett Ryan—best known for his YouTube channel "Toldinstone"—as he joins host Julian Dorey for a sweeping conversation about Ancient Rome, Greece, and their interconnected histories. Their lively discussion uncovers the cultural, military, and political dynamics that shaped the ancient Mediterranean world, the enduring legacy of Greece on Rome, the fate of Cleopatra and the Hellenistic kingdoms, Rome’s absorption of Egypt, myth vs. reality in classics like the Iliad, the real-life logistics of empire, and the lasting influence of these civilizations today.

Episode Themes and Structure

• The realities of academia and historical research (02:20–03:20)
• Cinema and popular culture depictions of ancient history (03:20–07:48)
• Military espionage and logistics in Rome and Greece (07:48–14:49)
• Roman expansion strategy: assimilation, conquest, and practicality (14:49–20:09)
• Persian Empire, Alexander the Great's conquests, and cultural transformation (20:09–38:32)
• Urbanization and cultural fusion in ancient cities, especially in the East (38:32–44:50)
• Ancient taxation, administration, and the challenges of governing an empire (44:50–51:07)
• Maritime trade, piracy, and transportation in antiquity (51:07–61:19)
• Preservation and destruction of ancient heritage sites (61:19–68:22)
• The Vatican as the nexus of Western religion and Roman legacy (68:22–77:10)
• The Byzantine period and the transformation of Rome (77:10–89:47)
• The birth and collapse of ancient cities including London and the long arc of history (89:47–97:05)
• Cleopatra, the end of the Hellenistic age, and Rome’s absorption of Greco-Egyptian civilization (97:05–114:37)
• Roman Egypt, daily life in Ptolemaic and Roman Egypt, and surviving papyri (114:37–117:19)
• Homer, the Iliad, and the roots of Greek myth (117:19–128:39)
• Greek polytheism vs. Christianity - gods, myth, culture, and afterlife (128:39–140:15)
• The pantheon of Greek gods and their cultural resonance (140:15–146:07)
• Daily life, democracy, and social order in classic Athens (146:07–157:06)
• Sparta—fact vs. fiction, the true military society (157:06–167:33)
• Overlooked ancient sites, especially in modern-day Turkey (171:37–174:55)
• Lessons from the fall of Rome and its relevance today (177:53–182:06)

Key Insights and Memorable Moments

Academia and the Historian’s Path

• Academia’s harsh realities: “It’s kind of a slow and building fuck you, I would say. You realize pretty early ... no, there’s no job for you either.”
  (Garrett, 01:58)

Gladiator 2 and Pop Culture

• “I was epically disappointed. … We came away and I was just kind of crushed. And she loved me a little bit less because, you know, it’s just a pale imitation of the first one, to be honest.”
  (Garrett, 03:26)
• “It’s a great period of history … but it was just a missed opportunity in all kinds of ways.”
  (Garrett, 03:30)

Dream Ancient Rome Movie

• Sertorius: “He had this, like, sidekick deer that would follow him around that he would whisper secrets into its ear. … Equal parts like Rambo and Merlin.”
  (Garrett, 07:00)

Espionage & Multiethnic Empires

• “... Rome recruited very heavily from peoples all over their frontiers. ... They would have someone who could speak the language, almost always.... It works both ways.”
  (Garrett, 09:06)
• “The Romans’ assimilating machine … you can take people in, often through military service... they become Roman in some sense. They remain something else often as well.”
  (Garrett, 14:22)

Conquest and Administration

• “It was kind of a crapshoot, to be honest. There are books about the grand strategy of the Roman Empire, but they didn’t really think that way. It’s much more ad hoc ... you conquer someone to keep them from attacking you.”
  (Garrett, 15:31)
• “Almost no one has a standing army in the ancient world. The Romans are really unusual in paying what amounts to about a quarter million men to be under arms at all times.” (Garrett, 17:42)

Alexander the Great: Conquest and Cultural Change

• “The Greeks managed to defeat the Persians … and then later Alexander, of course, conquering the whole kit and caboodle.”
  (Garrett, 22:51)
• “It takes him only three years to conquer the heart of the Persian empire… But then he gets bogged down in Central Asia for a few years. Takes him a long time to conquer Afghanistan.”
  (Garrett, 28:11)
• On ruling new lands: “...You co-opt the people on top. ...You keep the guys on the ground, the local officials, you just say, hey, you work for us now.”
  (Garrett, 36:14)

Urbanization and Cross-Cultural Cities

• “The Greeks and Romans make cities an instrument of culture, an instrument … in a way no other civilization has done.”
  (Garrett, 38:53)
• On Eastern fusion cities: “It actually was kind of an assimilation in many ways … Greek culture becomes, over the century and a half… kind of this super-culture, almost like English in Europe today.”
  (Garrett, 37:39)

Taxation and Daily Life

• “In Egypt, there are some villages that pay dozens of taxes, and each one’s very small, but it kind of adds up to being this pretty heavy tax burden. And people get desperate.”
  (Garrett, 44:50)
• “The Romans actually outsource this. They’re called publicani ... entrepreneurs who are tax farmers. ... So they’re not popular for all kinds of reasons.”
  (Garrett, 44:50)

Sea Trade, Pirates & Engineering Feats

• “There are outright smugglers … because there are all kinds of local customs barriers. Pirates are kind of the OG smugglers in a lot of ways.” (Garrett, 53:38)
• “Cilician pirates dominated the Mediterranean … until their suppression by Pompey in 67–66 BC. ... He settles them in cities—Pompeopolis. ... It’s like the original Australia.”
  (Garrett, 55:45 – 56:48)

The Vatican, Christianity, and Rome's Spiritual Continuity

• “Whatever your background … you can’t go into St. Peter’s Square or that church and be unimpressed by it. ... you feel the weight of history.”
  (Garrett, 72:41)
• “For my money, it’s the most Roman modern building… St. Peter’s Basilica is built to look like all of Rome’s greatest hits.” (Garrett, 75:03)

Rome and the Byzantine Empire

• “What we call the Byzantine Empire is just the Eastern Roman Empire—it’s just the part that never fell.”
  (Garrett, 81:37)

Cleopatra and the End of the Hellenistic Age

• “Caesar’s kid was also murdered.”
  (Garrett, 96:53)
• “Cleopatra—she’s the first one of her line to even bother to learn Egyptian ... It’s Alexandria by Egypt. ... The Ptolemies never regard themselves as Egyptian.”
  (Garrett, 111:17)

Homer, Myth, and Greek Legacy

• “With Greek literature, above all with the Archaic period, that’s when we get a definitive idea of who the gods are and what they do.”
  (Garrett, 128:29)

Greek vs. Christian Religion

• “Christianity is so different from what they believed.... For the Greeks, the gods just are, they have to be respected. ... They’re not even models for mankind ... They care about getting their due, which is above all the smoke of sacrifices and the prayers of mortals.”
  (Garrett, 130:26)

Daily Life in Athens and Sparta

• “In Athens ... if you’re a male citizen, you have a say in how the city is run.... But if you are not an Athenian male citizen, you have no say. ... It’s a very public society.”
  (Garrett, 154:00)
• “The Spartans were probably very effective, but … they weren’t like the supermen that we see, with the eight packs, in ‘300’.”
  (Garrett, 161:27)

The Forgotten Ancient Cities of Turkey

• “There are literally hundreds of Roman cities scattered around Turkey. ... Termesis ... you just commune with the past. ... There’s the theater right there, and these limestone crags around it.”
  (Garrett, 172:42)

The Fall of Rome and Lessons for Today

• “The Germans who destroyed the Roman Empire were in many ways already part of the Roman system. … It’s as much … a story of internal collapse, of civil war, above all weakening the Empire, and then of local elites gradually distancing themselves from the central power ... It’s things falling apart.”
  (Garrett, 178:04)
• “If there’s any lesson in Roman history for us in America today, it’s that people with power … tend to abuse power. And when you ignore the rules of the system, things can fall apart pretty quickly.”
  (Garrett, 182:06)

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• “It’s kind of a slow and building fuck you, I would say...”
  — Garrett, on the academic job market (01:58)

• “One of the magic[s] of ‘Gladiator’ for me was how magical Rome seemed.”
  — Garrett, on Gladiator (05:15)

• “If you gave me endless money to make a Roman movie, I’d go for Sertorius. ... Equal parts like Rambo and Merlin.”
  — Garrett, on most cinematic Roman history (07:00)

• “If you don’t respect [Zeus], he’ll get you. ... The Greek gods couldn’t care less about that. ... They care about getting their due.”
  — Garrett, on Greek polytheism (132:00)

• "In Egypt ... papyri ... tens of thousands of documents..."
  — Garrett, on real ancient records (114:39)

• “It was always a compromise ... try to make the modern city live alongside its past. And that’s not always an easy balance to strike.”
  — Garrett, on Rome today (71:03)

• “The Germans who destroyed the Roman Empire were in many ways already part of the Roman system.... It’s as much ... a story of internal collapse.”
  — Garrett, on the fall of Rome (178:04)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [03:20–07:48] — Gladiator 2, historical movies, and dream Roman biopics
• [07:48–14:49] — Military espionage and multiethnic armies
• [14:49–20:09] — Rome’s expansion & military logistics
• [20:09–38:32] — Persian Empire, Alexander the Great, and Greco-Persian conflicts
• [38:32–44:50] — Urbanism: Greek/Roman fusion in the East
• [44:50–51:07] — Taxes, tax farming, and how Rome ran its empire
• [51:07–61:19] — Ships, Roman engineering, piracy, shipwrecks
• [61:19–68:22] — WWII, heritage, preservation vs. loss
• [68:22–77:10] — Vatican’s legacy and the continuity from pagan to Christian Rome
• [77:10–89:47] — Byzantine phase, Rome post-collapse, and gap eras in history
• [97:05–114:37] — Cleopatra, Hellenistic Egypt, and Roman domination
• [117:19–128:39] — Homer, the Iliad, oral to written myth
• [128:39–140:15] — Religion: Greek myth vs. Christianity
• [157:06–167:33] — Sparta: myth, fact, and military society
• [171:37–174:55] — Undervalued ancient cities in Turkey

Final Thoughts

Dr. Garrett Ryan brings ancient history to life, debunking popular myths and highlighting often-overlooked cultural and historical connections. Whether describing the nitty-gritty realities of empire, correcting pop culture depictions, or tracing how administrative genius let Rome and Greece linger for centuries in world memory, his storytelling reveals what made the ancient Mediterranean both strange and familiar.
If you enjoyed Garrett’s insights, find him at Toldinstone (YouTube) and look up his literary/historical tours around Egypt, Italy, Turkey, and Spain!

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