Julian Dorey Podcast – Episode #401 “Haunts Me!” - NYPD Terror Detective on 9/11, Epstein & Interrogation Mastery Guest: Tom Smith | Date: March 27, 2026

Episode Overview In this gripping episode, Julian sits down with Tom Smith, a retired NYPD detective who dedicated three decades to public service—including the elite Joint Terrorism Task Force after 9/11. The conversation spans Tom’s upbringing in crime-ridden New York, the evolution of policing culture, lessons in interrogation, the aftershocks of 9/11, real talk about Jeffrey Epstein’s case, and the complex psychology behind crime, power, trauma, and survival. Tom delivers remarkable candor and storytelling, sharing wisdom for the next generation and vivid accounts from both the streets of NYC and the global war on terror.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Changing Face of Policing

• Generational Shifts & Culture [01:05–03:40]
  • Tom reflects on the major changes in NYPD culture since the 1990s, contrasting the “win at all costs” mentality of his era (“You're not allowed to lose a fight under any circumstances”) to the increasingly scrutinized, restraint-focused policing today.
  • Quote: “[Back in the day] cops were respected because of upbringing... you got in trouble, it's your fault, not the police. Whereas today it's reversed. You're just picking on me because... No, I'm just enforcing the law. You screwed up and that's it.” — Tom Smith [02:00]
• Impact of the Drug Epidemic [03:55–05:28]
  • 1970s/80s: Crime exploded due to drugs (heroin, cocaine, crack).
  • Crack was "five bucks and an immediate, an immediate high." [05:06]

2. Upbringing and the Influence of Family

• Legacy of Policing [05:40–09:48]
  • Raised by an NYPD detective father, Tom was steeped in the world of law enforcement from a young age.
  • “Driving around the Bronx or Manhattan with my dad was a history lesson. Every street was a story, every alley was a story.” — Tom Smith [06:16]

3. Detective Skills & Interrogation Mastery

• Communication Over Everything [09:00–09:48]
  • Core advice: “If you can't talk to people, you're not going to be successful... You should be able to talk to the CEO of the biggest company or the worst crackhead on a corner.” — Tom Smith [09:29]
• Interrogation Tactics
  • Emphasizes respect—disrespect shuts people down [09:52–10:38].
  • Good cop/bad cop is real, but authenticity matters [10:43–11:30].
  • Don’t assume guilt; keep an open mind (“If you have a closed mind... You're not going to listen to what they're saying. That can skew an investigation badly.”) [11:53–12:28]
• Psychology of Confessions [14:40–18:32]
  • Establish rapport on neutral topics (sports), then pivot.
  • Often, criminals “want to be famous,” linking to the psychology of boasting and notability in crime [18:06–18:32].

4. Power, Criminal Psychology & Gray Areas

• Why Kingpins Do What They Do [18:38–21:19]
  • Stories of notorious figures like Nicky Barnes (“It wasn’t about the drugs or the money. It’s about the power.”) [19:51–20:20]
• Blurred Moral Lines of Power [22:16–25:11]
  • Power dynamics are complex; societal lines between “legal” and “illegal” powerful figures often blend.

5. Beat Cop Reality: The Human Side

• Raw Conditions, Relationships with Community & Criminals [25:52–30:45]
  • Patrolling 1990s Harlem/Washington Heights: “One square mile, 88 homicides in a year.” [26:19]
  • Cops and criminals had a different rapport: “They knew we had a job to do, we knew who they were. Just don’t do it in front of us.” [28:16]
  • The cycle of poverty, environment, and “destiny” in crime: “Some people are just destined to fall into that because of who their bigger influences were.” [30:16]
• On Cynicism and Environment [30:45–34:12]
  • “I don’t think anyone’s born evil or born bad... people get put in an environment and then have decisions to make.” — Julian [30:45]

6. Education & Societal Change

• Breaking Generational Cycles [34:12–41:22]
  • Tom argues the fix starts with schools and afterschool programs; kids need to find their unique interests, not just sports [34:12–38:15].
  • Frustration at wasted potential and social/political inertia: “Kids get ignored. Because why? They're easy to ignore. Because they don't speak up.” — Tom [38:18]

7. Trauma, Violence & Coping

• Coping with the Job [47:05–63:11]
  • Vivid shootout in 1993: “Everything you see in movies about time slowing down is true.” [50:43–52:01]
  • Not dealing with trauma consciously at the time, but “haunted” by sleep nightmares: “My gun never worked in my nightmares.” [59:04–59:48]
  • Outlet was family, sports, and coaching: “You need an outlet. You need a release from this madness.” [60:52]
• Compartmentalizing Trauma [89:52–91:22]
  • “That hour plus ride home... kind of set it in motion of getting it out of my head before I got home.” [89:52]
  • Family support, particularly his wife, was critical: “If I didn't have that outlet of her, it helps. She's a guidance counselor. That helps.” [91:01]

8. Transition to Detective & Anti-Crime Work

• Unit Work & Undercover Realities [45:14–82:27]
  • Anti-crime meant plainclothes, high-risk calls, frequent shootings (gun run protocols, livery cab stings).
  • Undercover skillset: Authenticity trumps acting; best use their real first name [78:07–80:08].

9. Account of Jeffrey Epstein, Brainwashing, and Abuse [99:13–111:22]

• Reflection on investigators processing Epstein estate evidence; suicides in the aftermath.
• Guest Lisa Phillips’ account: “He’s one of probably the most maniacal brainwashing people of our time.” [104:11]
• On why victims didn’t realize at first: “There was a reason... every party, every person, every time. It all meant something.” [109:05]
• Tom’s anger at elite protection: “Both sides will yell, the opposite. And yet, there they are.” [126:49]

10. 9/11 Ground Zero: The NYPD Response

• Personal Account, Chaos, Trauma [128:31–142:20]
  • On 9/11, Tom was off duty; quickly mobilized and navigated a blocked city to arrive at Ground Zero—“Wildest scene you could ever imagine. Looked fake.” [131:42]
  • Vivid description of chaos, rumors, processing trauma, and the scale of the aftermath—both at the site and at the Staten Island landfill.
  • “You couldn't have thought of this on your worst day... There was a point in time where you get angry, mad, sad, upset, back to angry.” [140:12]
• Failures of Inter-Agency Coordination [143:42–149:15]
  • Breakdown in FBI/CIA info sharing, visa lapses were catastrophic: “It would have been easy... Cars are registered in their names. They didn’t hide a thing.” [147:52]

11. Joint Terrorism Task Force—Life as an NYPD Terror Detective [153:30–175:23]

• Post-9/11, Tom became one of only a handful to join the Joint Terrorism Task Force.
• “Your job was to make sure that day didn’t happen again.” [156:10]
• International collaboration: “We were still all NYPD detectives, but given federal status under the marshals.” [161:02]
• Operating overseas: “If you went to Jersey for a day, that was a good day... now you’re getting on a plane, going overseas, briefing an ambassador.” [162:36]
• Non-stop stress: “You had to be on top of your game. You couldn’t have a bad day.” [159:44]
• On sourcework and dealing with foreign partners: “I didn’t change a thing. I never made something out to be more than it was... Humans are humans.” [166:56]
• On the adrenaline: “I never stop. I wouldn’t eat. I wouldn’t sleep. I had this vision of the bad guy sitting on his couch... I had that absolute vision in my head and that used to get me, man.” [179:11]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (w/ Timestamps)

• “You’re not allowed to lose a fight under any circumstances.” — Tom Smith [02:30]
• “Cops and criminals, you had a relationship. It was very odd. They knew we had a job to do; we knew who they were. Just don’t do it in front of us.” — Tom Smith [28:16]
• “You can’t unsee stuff.” — Tom Smith [89:45]
• “My gun never worked in my nightmares.” — Tom Smith [59:04]
• “He’s one of probably the most maniacal brainwashing people of our time.” — Tom Smith, on Jeffrey Epstein [104:11]
• “Your job was to make sure that day didn’t happen again.” — Tom Smith, on joining JTTF [156:10]
• “I never made... a case out to be more than it was. It’s a case. It’s a bad guy. We’ve got to stop him from doing this, just like I would stop a guy from killing a family in the Bronx.” — Tom Smith [167:28]
• “You enjoy the rush of the chase... Adrenaline junkie to the end. Absolutely.” — Julian & Tom [180:17]
• “It’s like walking forwards for 30 years and then someone telling you, you got to walk backwards.” — Tom Smith, on retirement [180:29]
• “I’d do it again tomorrow.” — Tom Smith [181:17]

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [01:24–05:28] — Policing Then and Now; NY Crime History
• [14:40–18:32] — Interrogation Methods & Criminal Psychology
• [26:19–30:45] — Policing Washington Heights 1990s: Crime, Community, Cynicism
• [34:12–41:22] — Societal Change, Education Reform, Cyclical Poverty Solutions
• [47:19–54:26] — 1993 Supermarket Shootout Story
• [58:11–62:53] — Trauma, Nightmares, Coping
• [89:52–91:22] — Trauma Compartmentalization & Family Support
• [99:13–111:22] — Epstein, Survivor Testimony, Brainwashing
• [128:31–142:20] — September 11th, Ground Zero, Processing Trauma
• [143:42–149:15] — Inter-Agency Failures, 9/11 Could’ve Been Prevented
• [153:30–175:23] — Joint Terrorism Task Force Work, Global Investigations, Burnout, Retirement

Language & Tone

• The episode is marked by Tom’s humility, directness, and NYPD gallows humor.
• Julian is probing, candid, and respectful, creating a conversational, deeply human tone.
• Exchanges are honest, occasionally irreverent, but always underpinned by respect for the gravity of the topics.

Further Links

• Gold Shield Show: Tom’s podcast for law enforcement stories
• IMPACT Product: Alternative to pepper spray (carryimpact.com)
• Episode Description Link

Summary prepared for listeners and non-listeners alike—delivering the full weight, color, and lessons from an extraordinary career and a city gripped by the margins of history.