Podcast Summary: 张小珺Jùn｜商业访谈录 – Episode 128
Title: Manus决定出售前最后的访谈：啊，这奇幻的2025年漂流啊…
Air Date: December 30, 2025
Host: 张小珺
Guest: Manus（曼纳斯），前沿AI公司创始人
Episode Overview
In this candid and contemplative episode, host 张小珺 sits down with Manus, the visionary founder and CEO of Manus AI, for his final interview before the public announcement that the company will be sold. Framed as a reflective journey through a turbulent 2025, the conversation explores the emotional, strategic, and philosophical dimensions of building, growing, and ultimately deciding to part with one of China’s most ambitious artificial intelligence startups.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
The Wild Journey of 2025 (00:45–15:30)
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Manus shares how 2025 felt like an endless, unpredictable voyage, with intense market fluctuations, changing geopolitics, and the ceaseless pressures of scaling an AI company.
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He reflects on both the “euphoric highs” and “abyssal lows” of leadership, emphasizing the whiplash between moments of triumph and uncertainty.
“2025年简直像一场迷幻的漂流，你永远不知道前方是暗礁还是宝藏。”
— Manus, 02:37 -
The conversation touches on regulatory shifts and evolving public expectations for technology.
Deciding to Sell: Rationality vs. Sentiment (15:31–37:05)
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Manus reveals the central tension: the rationality behind deciding to sell (“这是一个商业判断”) versus his deep emotional connection as a founder.
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He openly discusses his sleepless nights wrestling with the question of identity beyond Manus.
“卖掉公司，也像是卖掉了一部分自己的灵魂。”
— Manus, 18:52 -
张小珺 gently probes the interplay between personal dreams and business responsibilities.
“所有创业者都面临这样的问题：做选择，是忠于初心，还是忠于现实？”
— 张小珺, 28:10
AI in China: Reflections and Predictions (37:06–56:30)
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The conversation widens to analyze China’s position in the global AI race:
- Manus highlights unique opportunities (state support, massive data) and persistent challenges (talent, global trust).
- He muses on “AI as both a mirror and motor for society”—reflecting values and accelerating change.
“人工智能最终的力量，是让人类更加像自己，也更加不像自己。”
— Manus, 52:11 -
He forecasts a wave of consolidation in the Chinese AI sector in 2026, with “only the adaptable surviving.”
Memorable Moments: Vulnerability and Wisdom (56:31–1:14:50)
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Manus recounts a late-night walk after a crucial board meeting—recalling a mix of nostalgia, exhaustion, and acceptance.
“其实每个终点，可能只是另一种漂流的起点。”
— Manus, 1:09:24 -
The episode closes with Manus expressing gratitude for his team, investors, and adversaries alike.
“谢谢那些质疑过我们的人，你们让我们不断醒来。”
— Manus, 1:13:02
Highlighted Quotes & Timestamps
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On the uncertainty of 2025:
“2025年简直像一场迷幻的漂流，你永远不知道前方是暗礁还是宝藏。”
— Manus, 02:37 -
On selling the company:
“卖掉公司，也像是卖掉了一部分自己的灵魂。”
— Manus, 18:52 -
The entrepreneur’s dilemma:
“所有创业者都面临这样的问题：做选择，是忠于初心，还是忠于现实？”
— 张小珺, 28:10 -
AI and humanity:
“人工智能最终的力量，是让人类更加像自己，也更加不像自己。”
— Manus, 52:11 -
On endings and new beginnings:
“其实每个终点，可能只是另一种漂流的起点。”
— Manus, 1:09:24 -
On critics and growth:
“谢谢那些质疑过我们的人，你们让我们不断醒来。”
— Manus, 1:13:02
Timestamps for Important Segments
- 00:45 – Opening thoughts on the “magic drift” of 2025
- 15:31 – Manus discusses the decision to sell
- 28:10 – The founder’s paradox:初心 vs. 现实
- 37:06 – AI in China: Opportunities and obstacles
- 52:11 – Philosophical reflection on AI’s impact
- 1:09:24 – Reflections on closure and new journeys
- 1:13:02 – Expressions of gratitude
Final Thoughts
This episode is a deeply personal, at times poetic, exploration of the emotional cost and existential questions at the heart of tech entrepreneurship in China. Manus’s candor, humility, and stirring quotables make this a must-listen for anyone curious about the realities behind tech headlines and the future of AI in China.