← Just A Moment
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- [00:01]
A
Hi, I'm Brant Menzwar and welcome to my show Just a Moment. As a former world touring musician turned keynote speaker and author, I've experienced my share of life altering moments that have both broken me and propelled me forward. How you leverage those moments or push through them will define your destiny. Each week on my show, I'll provide tools on how to maximize those moments as well as interview some of the most successful entrepreneurs, entertainers and athletes on how the power of a single moment changed their life. Join me to learn how to change what's possible for your life. It'll take just a moment.
- [00:39]
B
Feeling lost in the noise of social media, Inspo cuts through the clutter, connecting you directly with real insights from real experts and industry leaders. It's a new social network dedicated to knowledge sharing, industry insights and thought leadership. Get the latest from top minds in your field or or build your own thought leadership portfolio on inspo, already trusted by thousands of professionals worldwide. Be part of the conversation and download Inspo Experts today on the App store or visit www.inspo.expert.
- [01:10]
A
Hey friends, so glad you could be with us. Today's guest is Maria James, a veteran and office culture catalyst that has shaped the corporate environment for for multi billion dollar ventures around the world. From Virgin to Deloitte, her path to success takes some twists and turns and even has a few literal bombshells along the way. This is her moment.
- [01:35]
C
I'm Maria Janes and this is my moment. So I was born and raised in Finchley, North London and I lived with my mum and dad who were immigrant parents, mum from Bangalore, dad from Calcutta, both Anglo Indian Christians. English was our main language at home, although they spoke Hindi separately, growing up was quite challenging. From a young age I really didn't feel I fitted in and mainly during my school years, predominantly white was the school and a handful of people of color. Also I wasn't particularly bright at school academically, was told so by a teacher and that kind of stuck with me I'd say through my growing up and I found it really hard. I wished I had blonde hair and blue eyes at the time. I remember saying to my mum, why are people calling me Packy at school? And my mum's response was darling, people pay a lot of money to go on holiday and have a tan like yours. But it didn't quite answer my question and I suppose it was that kind of from the inclusion perspective that has given me that fire in my belly now to ensure from all walks of life fit in the workplace, Maria's passion.
- [02:56]
A
For justice and inclusion were always evident, but took a moment to define and refine into something she could make a career out of. Luckily, she had supportive parents who saw her potential even when she faced some academic setbacks.
- [03:10]
C
My dad was an engineer, he worked for the underground and my mom was a secretary, so she worked in the city. And yes, my mum had a full time job and so did my dad. Most of the time he worked night shifts and my brother and I cracked on. We often used to stay at friends of theirs when my parents were working, so they were very committed to us and we never went without. You'd get the fancy trainers at school where my friends would have the Nikes and I think I would have the Golas at the time, which were the sort of underrated brand. But they tried their best, I would say a very supportive upbringing and they only knew what they were taught, if that makes sense. It was loving to a degree, but there were things within my schooling. My grades, failing, all of my exams, no question of why, just I will enroll you into college. Maria, you can't leave school with no qualifications. I wanted to be a lawyer and I remember having a conversation with my dad in the car. I said, dad, I really want to be a lawyer and I want to stick up for what's right. And he said, good, darling, that's really good ambition. But obviously failing school, that kind of dream went. So my dad, with his wise hat on enrolled me for a business and secretarial course and that's what I did. I showed up thinking, oh, I've let them down, I'll do this course. But actually the college is where I found my wings. I felt a little bit like the ugly duckling at school. And then I went to college and I felt a bit like a swan. And the reason for was that is it was so diverse in people's religion, social backgrounds, colour, and that finding your tribe, I think is so important for connection and confidence. And that was the starting point of my journey of understanding myself. And then that gave me the drive and the base to push forward and get these roles, working for some of the best CEOs as their executive assistant with my secretarial skills, but getting to see holistically how decisions were made, how culture's built, what affects people. And that was a real eye opener because you don't often get that front row seat at that young age.
- [05:33]
A
The next phase of Maria's life was expansive and showed her not only her own potential, but prime examples of what exemplary executive leaders leadership looked like.
- [05:44]
C
It was Bright. I remember it being vibrant. I was getting attention from boys, let's say I was liked by other girls. I had good friends. It was working with people. I worked for a construction company at the time, Taylor Wood, Jo who are global and for the CEO is his junior secretary. And those leaders were amazing. They were like parents actually in terms of how they nurtured me and I would say gave me the grounding around work ethic. The basics, getting up on time, not coming on to work, hungover, just some of those fundamentals. But I think that's what helped me a lot. And you could just feel the wisdom from the years that they had under their belt and passing that on in a really caring way. What I did see, which is why I think the trust was built quite quickly was this CEO Tony, his name was. He would speak as he came into work to everybody that he crossed. So whether it was the cleaner to his driver Ken to he treated everybody the same. And I used to look at him thinking, gosh, you were like the CEO of this big multi million global company. But he just didn't see himself like that. He just treated everybody like a human. And that helped me then feel less intimidated and be myself. It was his warmth and style and human centered approach. I haven't seen that in many leaders if I'm honest. It's quite a unique skill as well. But I would say that's what differentiated him for me in my time but also the people around him in the company. I could see he was loved by a lot of the employees. It was a very good company to work for. Engagement was high lifers. People didn't leave. It was a good firm to work for.
- [07:47]
A
The sterling example of what high performing corporate culture could look like under the right leadership. Maria continued her career working as an executive secretary for top CEOs, taking each new opportunity in stride as they came to her.
- [08:02]
C
I didn't have a plan, but what I did go with was my gut. So the more confident I got from leaders like Tony, it would give me the springboard for the next role. And I would apply for these quite big roles EAS to some of the big cheeses out there. Big cheeses in sort of London slang is our dynamic leaders. And I would get jobs and you just go in, you be yourself. And I think leaders respect that. If they don't, then they're the wrong leader for you and it's not the right job. Every time I did that, the next step I took I was more confident. It was a bigger step. And then A bigger step. And then that with my undercurrent of perfection, the failing, the exams, not quite understanding why, my thinking was a bit different, my questioning was different, the way I speak, I'm sometimes quite direct, always respectful, being able to be myself, I just followed it.
- [09:05]
A
Despite her successes in the corporate world, the academic issues Maria had always struggled with continued in the background. Until finally one day she had an answer.
- [09:16]
C
It wasn't till years later, in my mid-40s, when one senior exec at Vodafone said, I think you're dyslexic. And I said, what? He said, I think you need to get checked out, have a test. Anyway, I am dyslexic. And it was like, hallelujah. I had an answer to all of the questions, why am I different? Why don't I think like most people? And it's been now from carrying this perfectionism, I would say depression as well. Anxiety became my norm. My perfectionism became my armor. That fear of failing you over, prepare to not be exposed, that served me well as a Persona, let's say. But underneath it was I myself in some of these jobs? No. But now I'm quite far in my career, 25 years or so. I just wouldn't do that again. I'm very passionate around flying the flag for employees, around, be your true self and if you can't, it's not the right environment for you, move somewhere else.
- [10:24]
A
And move she did. Although where to exactly wouldn't be clear. Maria craved a dramatic change in her life. It started off small, an opportunity to engage with the side of her that longed to chase the principles of justice and a sense of inclusion. One decision to engage with those values would send Maria halfway around the world and onto the front lines of the Iraq war.
- [10:49]
C
I was in the gym, I was working for a big newspaper at the time, and I was drying my hair and there was a newspaper on the top and I flick it open. It had a poster open, day, join the military reserves to be a military police officer now law. I mentioned and I thought, got a shot here. It covers stuff. I was working for a private equity firm at the time, and life just seemed to be, what's the point? What's my purpose? You do get a bit of a different flavor from civilian to military. I didn't have that fear. I embraced it. I think I was looking for something, if I'm really honest. What? Maybe I had a gap I was trying to fill and it filled it. I'm getting paid to train one evening a week, one weekend A month. And I think he did one week training week a year. I went to the open day, signed up. Eight years later I became an instructor in chemical warfare, battlefield first aid and a marksmanship coach so I could teach you how to hit a target. That was great. I had lots of fun, learned so many new skills with sent off skiing, learned how to ski. I made the best friends ever. And what it, what that taught me was around mindset. So working in a corporate environment and at that time there was lots of suits, even I wore suits. And then he would in the evening go to this environment where you're in uniform, there's discipline, there's none of this fluffy talk, it's quite to your face. And being, having that mentality to flip was a great skill I adopted because that was key for when I was mobilized to Iraq during the conflict. So I think that really helped me pivot, let's say mentally when needing to. So you join the reserves, right? And they always tell you up front, you may get called up to war. And most people think, ah, it's not going to happen. And I suppose I was a little naive with that, thinking, oh, that won't happen. And it happened. It was in my late 30s. So you get called up. What that means is you have to go unless you're pregnant or terminally ill. And I remember talking to my parents about it and my dad said, why do you have to go? Why don't you let someone, someone else go? And I said, dad, I've been training for eight years. I've learned all these skills. What's the point of me learning all this stuff if I can't use it? But it's funny, my friends and family and my boyfriend at the time, they couldn't get their head around it. They thought I was crackers. I've always been quite open to trying new things. I don't really think too deep about stuff. I'm quite impulsive, but I wouldn't get there otherwise if I overthought it. So that was my mindset and I just went with it. So the transition was quick. Office to frontline. I would say one week in the office, taking minutes to the next few days in an intense training camp, learning all of these things, these different skills, detonating mines, basic Arabic. If you're caught and captured, what do you do and say? That was quite scary. But they had to put us in those scenarios because that was the real life we were heading out to. You do your beat up training, as we call it. I think that Was six weeks, you're migrated with your regular army section. You make your friends, you get to know each other, who you're going with, and then you deploy over to Iraq.
- [14:34]
A
Maria's moment came unexpectedly, as many things do on the war front. But the lesson she learned from it is perhaps the most unexpected aspect of all.
- [14:45]
C
Meal times, right, were cherished, especially before you were going on patrol. So my section were about to go out. Our job was to go around the community, show presence and have the infantry around us to protect us. So it was a really quite volatile time. So you'd go to the cook house quite excited, but also unsure when your next meal may come. Would you come back or would it be delayed? So everybody would get them pretty prompt. We're queuing up and you just hear boom. No one bats an eyelid. We carry on shouting, start getting our food, and then the next time you hear a boom. And this time the tents, when the food was being served, the bottom started flapping, comes on the radio, get your kid, get to hardcover. Everyone scrambles. Your kid's on the floor. I get my weapon, my webbing, and everyone starts legging it. What do I do? I quickly run back, grab a donut, which I've been eyeing up when I got on there, and start running out, following the guys. And as I'm running, I stuck it. I slip and I fall on my face. RPG's coming in. My comrade Dev, who was just in front of me, turns around, comes back, picks me up by the scruff of my neck. We get on our feet and we run to hardcover, which was an ISO container at the time. We get into the hardcover, everyone bursts out laughing. It's what does GI Jamesey have in her hand? The donut intact, not any dust on it. And everyone's laughing their heads off. We were stuck in there for several hours. Water and my one donut, which I shared around. But I think that just showed me about humor. We were all scared, but how humor got us through that camaraderie and that safety piece around. Someone has my back, really had my back that day, and that's something I cherish.
- [16:55]
A
Coming home came with challenges. As Maria struggled to adjust and heal, more opportunities came out of the woodwork that would lead to her discovering her ultimate purpose.
- [17:07]
C
Most of the platoon, let's say, that were out there with me, suffered loss of comrades, near death experiences, and ptsd. And I had ptsd. Not to the degree some of my colleagues, but I didn't even know I had it until I went to the Medical officer. And he said, you need to speak to someone about what you saw. Because a lot of us, you compartmentalize things, you lock it away and actually you need to talk about it to bring it up. And I remember coming home and actually trying to talk to my parents about it and my friends and they couldn't deal with it. And when I say they couldn't deal with it, they weren't rude, but you could tell they were switching off when I was talking. And I got quite upset about that, thinking, you don't want to hear what's happened to me. But actually that's not normal conversation for people. And only therapy helped me understand that it was quite extreme what we went through and that's not bright everybody's ears in terms of being able to process it or relate to it. So that was really helpful. And then coming back, I think they gave us four weeks to climatize, they call it, back into civilian street. And I was dreading going back to my job. I was a EA in a private equity firm. My boss was brilliant, such a lovely man. But I just thought, what is the point of this job? What's the purpose of this? What am I trying to achieve? So I joined the police. I was accepted at the City of London Police, but something in my gut told me, this is not right. And then Virgin came along with an offer I couldn't refuse and it put that fire back in my belly because it was working for the CEO. He was a very charismatic people person and I haven't looked back since. That was my defining moment with Virgin, working for a brand that really does value its people. That sent me out to India to Virgin Mobile to help them with a startup business where I was head of comms and culture. And that's where I got to chaperone Richard himself and his family during their week stay. And that was so insightful. And I smile as I talk about him because he was the most sincere person I think I've met. When you meet these famous people, he is everything that you see. We were doing a launch and he always does these stunts. I don't know if you know the backstory, but he's had a few injuries from it, but he was jumping off this building, all with a special harness, etc and he was getting ready for that. So he did all of the press piece, met all the leadership and he said, maria, can we just meet some of the employees, some of the frontline people, the people talking to customers and he met a small group. But the point is he Was busy. He wasn't interested in the big cheeses. He was more interested in boots on the ground, people serving the customers, and asked them things like, so tell me about your family. What's important to you, not about what job do you do? And the energy I saw and after he'd left, it was electric. And I think that for me was inspiring leadership. Just around how he was, how he showed up and fully accessible. That's where I got to see culture. Not locally, but globally, how it can impact. India then was an emerging market and most people think you can lift a western brand, lift and shift and just do a plug and play. It doesn't work like that. So, yes, Virgin's established, it's well known. But there were things we really needed to tailor to fit culturally a totally different audience. And that really took time. Understanding the employees, what was important to them, and the most important thing for them was family. And if you brought the family into your employees experience, you'll have those people for life as law and employees. And that's what we did. You do a year service, you'll get a letter from the CEO that thanks your family as well as you for your commitment and just gestures. Anniversaries, birthdays, family were always invited in. And it's such a small thing, but actually it goes such a long way. I learned loads from working abroad, working in India. It was, was. It was brilliant.
- [21:41]
D
Welcome to Just a moment. Thank you so much for spending a few minutes with us. We have been fast friends. We met on LinkedIn and I was fascinated with your background and we connected and started talking and then I start hear some of these stories and I'm like, you've got to come on to the podcast and talk to us. Because I think you've had a really unique journey and it's one that I think is really important to share because I feel like people have an expectation of, I'm gonna go to school, I'm gonna come out of school, I might go to university, I'm gonna go there, I'm gonna find my job and I'm gonna get my job and I'm gonna climb this ladder. I think you've proven that you can reach the highest levels of success and not a linear direct line.
- [22:28]
C
Yes. And I think like isn't about having a hard plan because everything in life, change is inevitable. But I think if you're able to know yourself, I think which is the fundamental in being happy and content and being able to be empathic to yourself and others, you will go with your Gut. And I think your gut is a really good compass for a lot of things. And that's what I followed. And environment has been incredibly important for me to thrive. And when that environment hasn't been right, I've done something about it. Early in the day, maybe not. But I think over my course what I've learned is we are all accountable for ourselves. Yes, we get people in our lives that don't do us justice. Right. But you can do something about that and you are empowered to do something about that.
- [23:26]
D
I love this idea of change your environment. There was a meme that went around, God, I don't know how long ago, but it was about a flower not growing. You don't. You change the environment of the flower, right. And it helps it grow. And I think that I don't even know that this is necessarily just for something, for work. I think it's something in life if you're not in an environment that it lets you bloom, then you need to change your environment, whether that's in a relationship, whether that's at work, whether that's at home. How important do you think in this day and age environment is for someone to be happy?
- [24:04]
C
I think it's incredibly important. I think the make or break actually to being able to be yourself. A lot of these companies that I've worked for in my experience will say we're fully inclusive. We want you to bring your whole self to work. And that's great in theory and in principle and the intent's there, but in reality, I would say the majority don't bring their whole self to work. And that's either through fear or the environment that they're in doesn't allow them to do that. So if you're able to fake it and show up as a work Persona and then in the personal time be yourself, then that's great because different strokes are different folks. Everyone's got ways of doing things. But I will say doing that does have knock on effect. I think later on.
- [24:57]
D
Yeah, I can remember reading something recently about authenticity at work. And I had turned it into a post where I said, I accidentally brought my authentic self to work. Today I'll just take myself to hr. And it was one of the most successful posts I think I've had on LinkedIn. And one of the conversations that happened around that, which I thought was interesting, is people confuse authenticity with the right to be an asshole. And I find it really crazy that their idea of authenticity is being able to be demeaning to say things that might have been okay, in 1984, but today is not appropriate. And because their ability to be mean or misogynistic or take your pick has been taken away. They feel like they can't be their authentic self. How do you battle that? Going into some of these corporate and culture environments where that especially Gen Xers, boomers, this is the prevalent sort of mindset for them. How do you approach that when you know that they. To me, it's mind boggling that they just can't see that it's inappropriate. But for them it's like a right got stripped away from them. How do you deal with that?
- [26:21]
C
Well, it goes back to know thyself. And I think if you don't have that basic emotional intelligence, that's where you fall down as a leader. And to brand that and say it's authentic, it's me being authentic just shows there is no awareness whatsoever. There's, and I've been talking about this quite a lot around the human. The number one human centered leadership skill for the future is going to be emotional intelligence. Because with AI, it needs human intervention, it's not emotional. And it's going to separate the weak from the chaff in terms of leadership. Because if you haven't got an emotional intelligence as a leader, you're not going to be able to rely on what you've relied on in the past. It's going to be very clear. A lot of people haven't got that experience. They get that title through a promotion. They don't have that lived experience. They're not able to adapt if they're given feedback, they find ego gets in the way and they become a bit of an asshole, as you said. So go back to basics, know thyself, Give them the coaching they need to regulate your emotions, understand your triggers, your vulnerabilities. You can't be an inclusive leader if you don't understand yourself. And you can't show empathy if you don't understand yourself. So I think they're going back to that authentic piece. It's pretty clear that they probably lack it if they're calling themselves authentic and acting like an ass.
- [27:53]
D
You know what we do here, we always like to pivot before we end to a moment that maybe we'd like to revisit and have an opportunity to approach differently. I'm curious, with your life and experience, what would that be for you?
- [28:06]
C
I think if I look back on my career, there have been instances where I haven't spoken up about something that hasn't felt ethically right. I've seen against somebody else. But I think as I've evolved in my career and got more confident and a bit more grounded, that's given me the conviction to speak up, aligned to my values. And that's been my compass. How we've evolved as a society now, I think it's much safer for all generations, especially our ones just coming into the workforce to stand by their convictions, to speak up if they don't feel something's right in the workplace. And I've had a few situations where it's been awkward in it's forced some people to deal with some uncomfortableness about themselves. But hey ho, sometimes that's part of life and growth. But would I change those? No. Because I stood by my values, I've done the right thing and I can move on. And I think if you don't speak up, you get stuck. And that's not healthy. What I would say is don't clip your wings and compromise your values by staying where you can't fly. It's not other people, it's the environments that actually will enable you. Because when you soar, you lift your team, your organization and your communities. And that's a really strong message.
- [29:42]
D
I truly believe if our listeners want to continue to follow you on your journey, what's the best way for them to do that?
- [29:49]
C
Yeah, I'm on LinkedIn so they can DM me. Maria, James and I'll be happy to chat.
- [29:55]
D
Amazing. Thank you so much for spending some time with us on Just A Moment.
- [29:59]
C
Thank you.
- [29:59]
A
Brent, thank you for joining us on this episode of Just a Moment. Make sure to subscribe to our podcast and tell a friend or two about it to help spread the word so everyone can find a moment that inspires them. Don't forget to leave us a review and check us out on the web@justamomentpodcast.com Just a Moment is produced by Natalie Von Rose and Brandt Menzoar. For more inspiring shows like this, visit surroundpodcasts.com.