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MARINA LACERDA EPSTEIN ABUSIVE SURVIVOR aka JANE DOE MINOR 1 - Kat on the Loose | Wave AI Podcast Notes

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MARINA LACERDA EPSTEIN ABUSIVE SURVIVOR aka JANE DOE MINOR 1

Kat on the Loose

Wed Apr 22 2026

Summary

Podcast Summary: Kat on the Loose Host: Kat Zammuto
Guest: Marina Lacerda Epstein (abuse survivor, aka Jane Doe Minor 1)
Episode Date: April 22, 2026
Episode Theme: Surviving Abuse – The Story of Marina Lacerda and the Fight Against Shame, Silence, and Injustice

Overview

This powerful episode features an unfiltered conversation between host Kat Zammuto and Marina Lacerda Epstein, a survivor of severe childhood and teenage abuse, including sexual abuse by both her stepfather and Jeffrey Epstein. Marina shares her deeply personal journey from a traumatic upbringing in Brazil and the U.S. to being ensnared by Epstein’s circle as a vulnerable immigrant teenager. The episode is a candid, supportive, and often emotional exploration of survivorhood, the importance of speaking out, and the systemic challenges that prevent victims from seeking and receiving justice.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Importance of Speaking Out [00:36–01:23]

Both Kat and Marina highlight the immense difficulty of sharing stories of abuse and the importance of doing so to empower others.
Kat reveals her own experience of a 15-year abusive marriage, fostering solidarity and understanding with Marina.
Quote:
"It's very hard to tell your story. But I think it's important for women like us to continue talking about it so that we empower other women and men as well, you know, to talk about their abuse." — Marina [01:01]

Shame, Judgment, and the Victim Experience [01:23–03:16]

Discussion of how victims, especially women, often feel more social shame and judgment than perpetrators.
Marina reflects on the cycle of normalizing trauma and the difficult process of awakening to self-worth.
Quote: "People were like, but why did you stay?... It's something so hard to explain, right?... The cycle just continues and you start to normalize that cycle." — Marina [01:57]

Marina’s Early Life and Family Abuse [04:15–10:23]

Marina recounts emigrating from Brazil, attachment to her mother, and severe abuse by her stepfather, which began at age eight.
The betrayal by her mother—who failed to protect her and sometimes blamed Marina—features heavily.
Marina’s earliest exposure to sexual abuse is described with harrowing honesty; she explains both the confusion and the isolation she felt.
The police response minimized her abuse, leading to further self-blame and silence.
Quote: "The perpetrator does not stop. It only ends when you speak and you get the authorities involved." — Marina [07:02] "The police officers did not believe me...so I started to minimize my abuse." — Marina [09:30]

Challenges of Disbelief and Social Stigma [10:23–12:39]

Kat and Marina discuss how societal disbelief and stigma can silence victims, particularly when abusers are well-regarded or affluent.
Kat shares that nobody believed her about her wealthy husband’s abuse.

Economic Hardship and Vulnerability [13:28–15:07]

After her stepfather is jailed, Marina and her family face financial hardship.
Begins working from a very young age, often in difficult environments—a set-up for further exploitation.

Introduction to Jeffrey Epstein [14:17–18:18]

Through a friend, Marina is introduced to Epstein under the guise of giving massages for money—a standard grooming tactic in his operations.
Description of first arriving at Epstein’s New York mansion, noting the display of photos with powerful men (Clinton, Bush, Prince Andrew), which she now sees as a manipulative power play.
Quote: "He wanted to make sure that everybody knew he had power and he knew people." — Marina [18:18]

First Encounter—Manipulation and Exploitation [21:20–27:39]

Details the explicit abuse and manipulation that occurred during her first visit.
Epstein’s transactional and grooming behaviors, leveraging both intimidation and "generosity".
Quote: "He turns around and he goes, can you take off your bra? And I froze...Then he goes to lean in to touch my, my boob, and I just like, put his hand down." — Marina [25:06]

The Economics and Desperation of Survival [27:39–30:45]

Marina describes how desperation, immigrant status, and grooming compounded to make her and many others easy prey for Epstein’s network.
Details on how secretaries provided green cards in exchange for sexual exploitation.
Nuanced discussion on the blurred lines between victims and collaborators under coercion.

Trauma, Memory, and Coming to Terms with Abuse [37:26–40:27]

Only years later, with the help of other survivors and therapy, Marina recognizes that what happened was rape and not "sex".
Discusses meeting other survivors at Virginia Giuffre’s memorial and the complex aftermath of trauma.
Quote: "Trauma is so beyond what we think, and it really does its job. I couldn't remember that he raped me...My therapist was like, you didn't have sex with him. He raped you." — Marina [38:18]

The Role of Ghislaine Maxwell and Systemic Complicity [41:14–44:33]

Marina recounts her only direct experience with Ghislaine Maxwell, who participated in the sexual assault but was not immediately identified as "Ghislaine" at the time.
Speaks on Maxwell’s role in recruitment and abuse logistics—described as, at times, even more predatory.

The Fight for Justice and Accountability [45:05–50:41]

Disillusionment with the systemic failure to hold perpetrators—especially those in powerful positions—accountable.
Marina emphasizes the need for survivors to testify only if all parties, including powerful men in the files, must testify as well.
Quote: "Justice really looks like...holding people accountable. There are people out there. Nobody's holding them accountable. Nobody's bringing them criminally charged." — Marina [49:06]

Life After Abuse—and the Power to Reclaim the Narrative [51:15–52:35]

Kat underscores the importance of reclaiming a name and a face: Marina, not just "Jane Doe Minor 1".
Affirmation that there is "life after abuse" and a call to protect one’s peace and speak out.
Quote: "Never forget. You need to protect your peace. And you need to understand one thing. There is life after abuse." — Marina [52:30] "You have every right in the world to speak up and tell your truth, your story." — Kat [31:49]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

"Separated, we are not going to be strong. They are going to attack us, and they will win. So we need to stand united." — Marina [07:29]
"Don't let anybody tell you to shut up in any...even if it's a relative. You have every right in the world to speak up and tell your truth." — Kat [31:49]
"If I had a green card, I would have done it. Let me tell you, if I was the secretary, I probably would have been offering these girls the same thing because we think we are helping them." — Marina [29:51]
"No 50 year old should be dating a 15 year old. So normalized. And I'm like, guys, this man has nothing that he can relate to a 15, 16, 17, even an 18 year old." — Marina [33:10]
"I still think he's very much alive. He's very well protected. He is important. I think he's out there." — Marina, on Epstein’s alleged suicide [48:17]
"There is life after abuse. Do not think that there isn't...life is even better than what you think." — Marina [52:35]

Timestamps for Key Segments

[00:36] Host welcomes Marina, mutual recognition of courage
[04:15] Marina describes immigration and early family life
[06:36] The beginning and escalation of stepfather’s abuse
[10:23] Challenges with police, systemic disbelief
[14:17] Entry into workforce, economic hardship
[15:07] Introduction to Epstein via friend, grooming process
[17:22] First observations at Epstein’s house (photos of powerful people)
[21:20] First "massage" encounter, abuse details
[29:20] Discussion of immigration, desperation, and grooming
[33:01] Commentary on cultural normalization of abuse
[37:26] Recovery of repressed trauma memories; realization of rape
[41:14] Recollections of Ghislaine Maxwell
[45:05] Congress, public hearings, demands for broader accountability
[47:19] Marina’s message: refuse to let trauma steal your power
[48:17] Marina’s belief that Epstein is alive
[49:06] What justice should look like for survivors
[52:15] Affirmation: "there is life after abuse," guest farewells

Final Messages & Tone

This episode is raw and honest, balancing the pain of Marina's story with her resilience and determination to empower others. Kat and Marina maintain a tone of sisterhood, validation, and encouragement, offering practical hope to listeners who may be living through or healing from abusive situations. Both repeatedly stress the vital importance of breaking the silence.

Resources for Listeners

Survivors are urged to speak up and seek help—there are resources and hope, even if it takes time.
Listeners are reminded that speaking out, no matter the opposition, is a path to healing and a way to help others.

"There is life after abuse. Do not think that there isn’t. There is life." – Marina [52:35]

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Transcript

A (0:01)

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B (0:32)

Marina. Welcome to Cut on the Loose. It's such an honor having you here.

A (0:36)

Thank you for having me. The honor is mine.

B (0:39)

I have to say, you probably don't know my story, but I was in a very abusive marriage for 15 years, and I know how difficult it is for a woman to speak up and tell her truth. So the first thing I want to say is that I really admire you, and I think you're so brave and so courageous because I know it's not easy to tell your story.

A (1:01)

It is very hard to tell, you know, anyone that has been through abuse, it's very hard to tell their story. But I think it's important for women like us to continue talking about it so that we empower other women and men as well, you know, to talk about their abuse. I think it's something that, unfortunately, it is not talked about so often, so it's something that we definitely need to continue talking about.

B (1:23)

Yes. Bravo. I'm so proud of you. And I completely agree. And that's the goal with my show. I'm hoping that a woman out there that listens to us today and they're still going through what you and I went through, and obviously in different capacities, I hope they. They find the strength to leave to seek help. And there's so much shame, right. That surrounds. It's funny because with women and you tell me your experience, many times we are embarrassed. Like, we feel we are doing something wrong and people are gonna judge us. They're not gonna judge the. The abuser. They're gonna judge us. Was that how you felt?

A (1:57)

I feel like everyone does that, right? It's. It's insane. It's insane. Everyone's like, I think even in a marriage, because I also wasn't an abusive marriage for 17 years. So it's like, people were like, but why did you stay? Like, you have your dependency. Like, you owned your own things. Like, why did you stay? I'm like, because it's something so hard to explain, Right. When you have gone through trauma in your past, the cycle just continues and you start to normalize that cycle. And then when you realize at one point, you know, if it begins with healing, with therapy or anything that you decide to do that is something different that brings you some sort of eye opener, you start to go, wait a minute, this is absolutely not normal. I am worthy way more than this. I deserve way more. I, I demand respect. I deserve respect. I deserve love. And that's when you take, you know, the power, you know, and say, I'm walking away from this. Doesn't matter what situation it is. So it is very hard. And I know that some women are in situations where they are scared to leave because their partners is, is threatening them. But we have to be thankful that here in the United States of America, we have resources to help, you know, women and men. Unfortunately, some other countries don't have those resources, and, you know, we have to take advantage of that. So I hope to empower all the women that have been through abuse and are going through abuse.

A (4:37)

Yeah, yeah, of course. So when I moved to New York, you know, and expectations of just being with my mom and just being with her and just being so close with her. You know, us Brazilians, we're very attached to our mothers. I think both son and daughters were like, I don't know what it is, but we are glued. We're glued to our moms. And I just wanted to be with my mom. So my mom came to New York. She had met her boyfriend at the time and which became my stepfather. And just a couple months in after, you know, living with them, my mom had a night schedule she worked at. Seemed like it was a building and she was cleaning. And my stepfather was a driver. He was an illegal driver. So he would pick up people in the airport and you know, sometimes people would tell him, hey, you know, there's a customer there. So his schedule was crazy. He would come in and out of all hours and he just started to put on porn on TV and cover my face with a blanket. And then I started to peek through the blanket because as an eight year old I was very curious like any other kid. I feel like as adults we are curious people, right? Like you tell me, hey, don't look over there, but that person and you, right away your first instinct is to look, you know. So he started to. I started to peek through the blanket and then the blanket just came off one day and then it was like something was happening in, you know, in the porn my stepfather started doing to me. And next thing you know, like, it was like normal for us to like, for me to get sexually abused by my stepfather. Like I had no clue what was happening. I just know that something was happening to my body. It made my body feel good, but I didn't know what was happening. And then fast forwarding to when I was ten and a half, my mother had, you know, was got pregnant with my sister. She, she, you know, had my sister. We moved into another apartment which was a four bedroom. And at that point, you know, we, me and my stepfather were just, you know, he was just sexually abusing me. And it was like, what the hell?

A (8:26)

And then it got to the point where whenever I would tell her, he would then physically abuse me for telling her, and then sexually abused me on top. And then I just had to let it happen. You know, many nights I would stay in my bed and just praying like, oh, my God, please, I just want to have one good night of sleep. You know, because I started to understand that this was really not okay to happen. I mean, he was almost in his 50s. I was 8 until 12 years old, you know, so it was something. I think it was one of my worst abuses. And I've had many abuses after that, you know, so finally, at 12 and a half or 12 years old, we had a roommate. We used to rent out two of the other rooms, and he was sexually abusing her. So she saw me in Burger King one day after school, and she asked me, hey, do you want to go to the precinct? Like, I know it's been happening to you? And I was like 12 years old in seventh grade, and I jumped up because I was already arguing with my mom, like, hey, are we leaving? Like, this man keeps doing this to me and you keep leaving the house. You keep leaving me home knowing that this man is doing this. Like, what the hell? I was like literally cursing at my mom at like 11, 10 years old. I was like, so. I was so like mature for my age, you know, because of all the things, of course. And then, you know, we went to the precinct and the police officers did not believe me. They were like, you know, if you speak, you know, don't forget your stepfather's going to jail. He'll be going away for a very long time. This are serious accusations. So I started to minimize my abuse. I started to say, oh, he's only been abusing me for two years. Oh, he only touched me here. I got scared, you know, and it goes back to, this is what happens with the authorities. They start to question all women and men about their abuse. And then people get scared and then they start to scare them with like, what's going to happen with the perpetrator? We start to feel bad as humans and then we start to minimize our abuse, which is not.

A (38:09)

So Virginia Godfrey. So at Virginia Godfrey's, I started to hear all the other survivors talk about how they were raped and all these things. And I was like, oh, my God. Like, these women went through hell. So I came back home, one of my girlfriends who knows Jeffrey Epstein has gone there. She's a Jane Doe. I started to tell her. I'm like, oh, my God. Jeffrey Epstein raped all these women. Why didn't. Why. Why didn't he do that to us? Like, that is so up. Like, I can't believe this happened to these girls. I'm so distraught. I'm so sad. The memorial was beautiful. She's been through so much, Regina, because they spoke a little about her, and I got to meet the survivors and hear their stories. She seriously goes on the phone, she goes, hey, are you okay? And I was like, yeah, I'm okay. I'm like, I'm just very upset about these women getting raped by Jeffrey Epstein. He would never do that to us. Now, Jeffrey Epstein has used toys. He's done some horrific things that I, in my mind, can remember just really being aggressive, the way he touched us, and just, like, thinking that he was like this lover man, and he was like, completely the opposite, you know? And she turns around to me, she goes, I really need to tell you something. She's like, you know, like, jeffrey raped you a whole bunch of times, and when he did rape you, he would call, like, three or four of us in the room and ask you to jump on top of him. And he would tell us, like, this is the way that you're supposed to me and be a good girl. This is the way that you're gonna get ahead. And I couldn't remember that. I couldn't remember that I had another survivor. And then I was like, no, no, no, no, no. So I called my other friend who was in the room. Supposedly, that's what she told me. I Call her up. I'm like, hey, you know, I'm explaining her little thing. She goes, yeah, that sounds like what it is. He's like, jeffrey used you as, like, his little doll. Like, this is how you do things. This is how, when you listen to me, you get good. You get a good outcome. So I couldn't remember that he raped me, you know? And for the longest time, I kept saying sex. He had sex with me. My therapist was like, you didn't have sex with him because you are not like an adult. And he's an adult, and you guys are having consensual sex. This man is 15 years old. Having sex with a 15 year old, like, that is insane. You need to stop thinking that you had sex with him. He raped you. You know, whether you thought it was okay or not. It's not okay. You know?