B (2:26)

Bro, it's weird to hear your own bio.

A (2:28)

I was in Here, like, you're like, that's me.

B (2:31)

That's me.

A (2:34)

That's cool. That's cute. So the first time we met was through Instagram. It was through social media, about. Through mutual friends. But then you had to come. You were in Atlanta writing your new book.

B (2:46)

Yes, yes.

A (2:47)

Writing your new book that we're gonna talk about. But that's when I got to actually meet you. It's like, you know how you feel like you know somebody, but you don't.

B (2:54)

And then when you meet Instagram makes you feel like that. It really does.

A (2:56)

And sometimes that's weird.

B (2:58)

Yeah, y' all gotta stop doing that.

A (2:59)

Yeah, please. I like thinking you'd be, like, the best friend in your head. You're like, I don't really know you like that. So it was really cool to get to meet you. We were like, wait, this is our first time, actually. For sure.

B (3:08)

But it was cool. It felt like we knew each other on it.

A (3:11)

It did. Yes. No, for sure. For sure. So you describe your life as a series of yes. And you're even writing your upcoming book is called A Journey of Yes. Let's talk about what even led you to writing this book, because I know a lot of times when it comes to. You said that your faith and being obedient to God is what led you to la, what led you to the book deal and everything that's happening right now. Because there's a lot happening for sure. So let's talk about all the things.

B (3:40)

Yeah, I think the book thing happens. I would say, like, just a series of yeses. Like, so I did Instagram lives all the time. So I'm like, live. And there's a girl following me. I'm doing Q and A, and she writes in the comments, like, hey, have you ever wanted to write a book? So I'm like, nobody got no questions. So I keep ignoring it. She's like, I asked one. I'm like, oh, yeah, I hear you. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, at some point in life. But I was irritated because I felt like, God is like, girl, what are you doing? Kind of thing. Like, long story short, she dm's me. And she happened to actually work for a publishing company.

A (4:15)

Oh, wow.

B (4:16)

And so she was like, nah, Like, I follow you. I think you have something to say. Like, let's set up a meeting. She's like, I can officially send you something. And then she goes, like. She sends me an email. She go, like, one of the top Christian publishers. And she goes, I can continue this conversation with your Agent. I said, do I look? I must give. She has given it.

A (4:33)

Yeah.

B (4:34)

I said, Cause I don't. And at this time, I probably had 25, maybe anywhere between 2500 and 5000 followers. Like, very, very. And this was 2022.

A (4:46)

Oh, wow.

B (4:47)

Very. Like, not that long ago. So she says, agent. So I'm like, I need to get an agent. So I, like, reach out to somebody, take a meeting. And she doesn't sign me. Cause she's like, publishers, look at your numbers. And so I talked to my best friend. She's like, brenda, focus on, like, what God told you to do. She's like, he'll do it. A year later, I hit that same publisher up. My Instagram had grew. My TikTok had grew. My YouTube. Like, in a matter of six months, like, I had seven followers on TikTok. I posted one video in seven days. I was at 20K.

A (5:17)

Oh, wow.

B (5:17)

Like, it was like. God just was like, I got this. I got this. And he said, breathe. Yeah. And so it went from there. Like, we had one conversation. I'm like, look, this is where I was a year ago. This is where I am now. And she was like, instantly, sign me. Within a month, I sat down with every Christian publisher, like, in the market to talk. Like, they wanted to meet with me about my book. And was I. And I'm like, who am I?

A (5:38)

It's a drama, baby.

B (5:40)

And it was crazy. Cause, like, I was gonna write a book about something else. I went to sleep, had a dream, and got even Download, which created the Journey of Yes. And I messaged her. I was like, hey, I already have a book that has a chapter spelled out and one chapter done. But I really feel like this is the book I'm supposed to do. And the publishers agree with it. We pitched it, and then by the end of last year, October, I had signed my first book due. Six figures.

A (6:03)

That's like, come on. Won't he do? It's the Lord that is nothing but the Lord.

B (6:08)

But it's like, if I never went live that day, it's like, that's why I say it's a series of yeses. Because we always think for, like, the big one. It's like, oh, yes to the deal. No, no, no. It's his fruit of decisions over time that says, okay, God, I'm gonna do this, and I'm gonna do this. That lead to that moment, and I can trace it back.

A (6:23)

Right, right. That is so good. Oh, my goodness. Well, thank you for listening. Cause a lot of times, God can Tell us something. And we'd be like, ah, that ain't it. You know?

B (6:32)

Yeah, that's. You know, I've been there. Me too.

A (6:35)

But then still there some. Some days, depending on what day it.

B (6:38)

Is, and then you, like, realize that your life ain't yours.

A (6:40)

Yeah.

B (6:41)

And then it becomes easier because then it's like, if he's asking me to do something, I mean, it's my life, but it's his. It belongs to him. I gave it back to him when I said I was gonna follow him.

A (6:50)

Right.

B (6:51)

So then his plan is the only one that's gonna actually work, is there, in your walk.

A (6:56)

Because you are so in front of everybody now. You know, a lot of times as. Even as celebrities, I feel like it's easier to live in the shadows. Yeah. Do you find it harder now that you are such a big Internet sensation and people know you on Instagram and you walk down the street, oh, you're her.

B (7:13)

I don't like it. You don't like it? I don't like it. I mean, I think it, like, takes some getting used. It's weird. It's like, I'm like. I'm just being myself. And then I'm like. And then it's becoming a thing to people. I've been preaching places and people were like, can I have your autograph? I'm sorry for what? And I'm about to. And I literally, like, I'll sign stuff, but it will be a scripture or something, like. Cause I'm not a celebrity. You know what I'm saying? So I think it's, like, trying to find balance, and it's different. Social media will take you places, which I'm grateful for that. But sometimes it could be intrusive. I was at the Nike store and. And the girl's like, oh, my God, yes, you. Are you Brenda Palmer. She's like, I watch your podcast. I'm like, girl, how? And I'm like, teach me how. I promise, for me, I probably will always be shocked that, like, people know me. It's weird. And then she said, podcast. And I was in la. I never think to be noticed in la.

A (8:07)

I'm like, most time because people, like, they don't bother anybody here.

B (8:11)

No, for sure.

A (8:12)

Everybody recognize just like, oh.

B (8:14)

I also don't consider myself important enough for people to be like, hey, Brenda. It's like, okay, hey. And I'm socially awkward in that moment. I'm like, hi. But it's cool. I think somebody explained it to me in the sense of, like, you have impacted Their life and brought them closer to Jesus. That's like life changing to them. So when someone approaches you, you have to view it from that perspective. It's like, dang, okay, I can own that. I can say, man, I helped this person get closer to Jesus, and their lives have been changed by that. That's something to honor somebody for. So I think I have to view it that way. But it is different because it happened overnight.

A (8:52)

Yeah, I can imagine. And then a lot of times, like, for me, I can. I'm not sure about. Because I feel like you're a pastor, so your walk is completely different.

B (9:00)

I know you tried to slide that in there. I saw how you. You couldn't even say with a straight face. You said this, and it was low. It was like. Because you know that word is off limits. You're like, it's crazy. I am a servant of the Lord. Brenda. Pastor Brenda. It's crazy.

A (9:19)

You hear what I said? It's so funny. But for me, I know, like, living my life out in public and still knowing that I'm not perfect, I feel like. But I'm still professing the name of Jesus. It's hard. Like, if I feel like I can't make any mistake, you know, because your life is. You're under a microscope at all times. What would you say to people like me who are on that journey and may not be walking a fine line, but our heart. We know we love Jesus. We don't shy away from that. We let everyone know, this is what I believe in. I know his grace and mercy is the reason I'm here today and everything. Like you said, my life is not my own, but we struggle, you know what I'm saying, with that fine line of, this is what I do and this is who I am and I'm not perfect, but everybody's looking at me to be perfect.

B (10:07)

Yeah, I think that. I think that is a misconception. I don't think people want you to be perfect. I think people want you to be yourself. I think that if I was perfect, there's no way people would recognize their need for Jesus. And so I think where most people feel like they shy away from their shortcomings or their fallings, I amplify mine. I'm very open about. I missed it today. I just posted the other day, like, hey, I've been telling you, I got an announcement. Well, three days before I'm supposed to make it, God was like, nah, we not doing that. So I have to now say, and be open and be like, man, y', all, I really thought God was in this. Turns out it was me doing my own thing. Because people need to see themselves, and my inability to get it right all the time highlights their need for Jesus. So when we try to live and portray perfect lives, we're doing a disservice to people recognizing they need God.

A (10:57)

I don't think it's like me trying to be perfect, but people, like, as soon as you start saying, like, this is what I am. This is the walk. It's like, if you make one mistake, it's like, man, she ain't. You know what I'm saying? It's like it's automatically a judgment. That's what I'm saying.

B (11:10)

Like, I think it's like, okay, I think we could come across it differently, right? I think it's. I think it's when you. The moment you say, I'm a believer, you get loud about that. You immediately succumb yourself to a standard. And so what happens is people go, I thought you were saved. Now, the difference is, you know, we gotta. We progress. You know, it's a progressive journey. Right? But the moment you say it, you go. You're taking a stand.

A (11:43)

Yeah.

B (11:43)

And so sometimes it feels like judgment other. And people could be wrong in how they approach it, but it's really them saying, okay, the moment you say Jesus, you set yourself to this standard. You set people to expect you to meet it. Do we all meet it every time? No, but that's the part about journeying with Jesus. It's like, all right, y', all, I know I said I'm a believer, but here is my journey. Now, six months later, I'm gonna need you to not be where you was six months. Because if I'm growing in my revelation and knowledge of who God is, then.

A (12:16)

There'S gotta be some.

B (12:17)

There needs to be some progression. Yeah, yeah, yeah. At some point, you have to start making decisions that no longer feed your desires, but feed his desire for you. And so then it becomes easier. It's like, I've been. I'm a pk. I've been in church all my life. I also had times where I was drinking a lot. Not, like, social. Like, I was drinking. I was smoking. I was getting high, like, and I enjoyed that until I recognized, like, this is not who I am. And I think that we have to have the understanding that, like, even, like, our convictions are related to our spiritual maturity. That happens as we progress in our relationship with God. So what convicts me in this moment might not convict you. Right now, there are some foundational things that we all need to be saying the same thing. Right? Right. Here's the foundational thing. But outside of that, it's like, okay, even when I share truth, I'm not telling you what to do. I'm saying, hey, this is kind of what God said to me. Now go talk to him about it.

A (13:13)

Speaking of what God said to you, God told you that, that yoga?

B (13:19)

I knew. I knew I was about to bring it up, but I was like, I'm gonna let Krista bring it up. She just wanted to talk about this. Your fans gonna get you. They gonna be like, what you do about that yoga?

A (13:28)

I love yoga. We talked. You said that. Give us the backstory about how this came about.

B (13:33)

Okay. Now, you know, this is our second time talking about this. You know, we keep talking about this. You have a responsibility to search this out now. Yeah.

A (13:40)

I want you to tell the people.

B (13:41)

All right.

A (13:42)

Yeah. Cause I thought this was very interesting.

B (13:45)

All right. So I went to yoga. I went to hot yoga, actually, and I posted it on social media. I'm like, yeah, I'm going to yoga just in case I don't make it out of here, this and that, because it's hot. And I was like, I'm going with this person, and if I don't make it, it's her fault. And, like, the crazy thing was I went with. I was on staff at a church. I went with the church people. So we go to yoga. And I, like, enjoyed it. I was like, dang, this felt really good. What I recognized in the moment was I had, like, a very emotional experience. Like, it was so relaxing and so calming that I cried. And the only place I cry is in worship. So that was. It was like, okay. But then it was kind of like something a little off about that. And so I posted it. And one of my really, really close friends, she responds to my story and goes, don't ever go back there. I was like, bruh, what happened? I was like. I didn't say namaste. I said, in Jesus name. Like, I was like, I didn't participate in the thing. And so then she's like, nah. She's like, it's worship. And so then I'm like, what? So again, those are her convictions, right? I have no knowledge of it, but I went and searched it out. What I recognized is for that entire week, I had pains in, like, my shins, like, hurting. And I was like, what is this? And so the more research I started to do is like, oh, yoga is not an exercise, it's a practice. It's actually rooted in Hinduism. And the motions that we do are actual worship to deities. And so it's like, oh, that would explain. My response in the moment is because here's the thing, right? Like, even if I'm going there with the intent to exercise, just the same way you go to church and you go in the atmosphere, you worship, and sometimes you might cry, sometimes you might laugh, sometimes you might. That environment has been cultivated for that to happen. It's the same thing in yoga. Although I have a heart intention that I'm just exercising. This environment has been cultivated for worship and not to my God. So now I am participating in worship to a pagan God, which the Bible clearly speaks against. And so we'll read Exodus, we'll read the whole Old Testament, and we'll read about them serving other gods. It's the same for us. It's just been modernized into our culture. In our everyday life. The actual word yoga means to yoke. And so they'll tell you, like, empty yourself in the process. It's like, empty yourself for what? Well, because now you're giving your body access to that environment, so spirits have access to you. You're emptying yourself. The only place you empty yourself and be filled is in the presence of the Lord. And so it's like manipulative. They're like actual people who were Hindus who will tell you. Actually, people in Hindu will tell you they don't like that Americans use their worship practices for exercise because it's not exercise. It's just been infiltrated that way. It's deception. I, too, was deceived because I was like. I was like, bro, I'm about to. I'm about to have this made me feel. Yeah. And I was like, nah, I can't fool with it. And the moment I repented, and I was like, man, God, I like, break covenant with anything that I made agreement with in that environment. Knowingly and unknowingly. Pains in my legs, gone.

A (17:00)

Wow.

B (17:01)

And I know that he allowed that to happen so I would pay attention, because if not, I would have been going to yoga all the time.

A (17:06)

Yeah. So, yeah, okay.

B (17:11)

Y' all heard. Chris was okay. She said, bruh, I'm still going to go. And I'm not mad at her. This is consistent. Okay. This is not the first conversation.

A (17:21)

This is not the first conversation we had. You still gotta pray on that.

B (17:23)

You do, bro.

A (17:24)

Wait on the Lord to reveal that he will. Yes. Like he revealed to you. Cause when we talked about it, I said that I did not know all those things until you broke it down. But I said that when I'm there, like, for me, I'm thinking it made me grateful for my breath, like, to just be able to breathe things that we take for granted for sure. To hold myself up was really a hard thing in that 90 plus degree room. And then the movements they were doing, I was like, thank you, God. It made me, like, more grateful for things that I didn't think about because I was detached from my phone. I was just by myself and in that space. And for me, I would have pains, but they would go away when I did yoga. So I was like, oh, this is really working. And I was in the best shape of my life when I implemented yoga into my workouts. And for me, I'm thanking God for the movements. I'm not subscribing to this. I wasn't even thinking about what I could possibly taking in, because in the whole moment, I'm thinking, Jesus and God, thank you for this and thank you for my health and thank you for this movement in my body. So when I was like, well, when I do it, I'm thinking about the Lord, I'm thinking about Jesus. Go ahead.

B (18:29)

Did you see me think it was like, brenda, I reeled my own self in? See, I did that. Look, would you go to an Islamic temple and worship Jesus?

A (18:39)

Is that the same thing? Is it? I've never been to an Islamic temple.

B (18:45)

But you know why? Because you.

A (18:48)

Okay, but I did not look at that like that.

B (18:51)

That's what I'm saying. Cause you're thinking exercise. I'm saying it's cool that you think it's. That it's nice.

A (18:58)

Okay.

B (18:59)

It is Hinduism. That is what it is. It's a Hindu practice. And so it's. It's not my. The Lord got you.

A (19:07)

Yeah.

B (19:07)

The fact that you keep asking about.

A (19:08)

It, I just thought it was a really interesting topic.

B (19:11)

Yeah, no, it's just. I didn't.

A (19:12)

I didn't write that. Dinora actually wrote that.

B (19:13)

This, because she's like. She's like. She doesn't want to talk about it, bro. She's very centered in mind.

A (19:21)

You say, you know what?

B (19:22)

The more God, she said, look at you. Because it's not my job. I plant the seed, you just. Somebody else gonna water it. And the Lord is gonna make it grow.

A (19:34)

Yes, amen.

B (19:34)

But the day you stop going, I.

A (19:36)

Haven'T been in a while. A long time, actually. I haven't been all year. Yeah, but that.

B (19:43)

Yeah, this is why you friend.

A (19:45)

Okay, so.

B (19:47)

And they're gonna light you up, though, huh? They gonna be like, crystal, you still be going to yoga, right? Right?

A (19:52)

Yeah, sometimes. Like, you be cussing sometimes.

B (19:56)

A little.

A (19:56)

Are you see me going yoga sometimes?

B (19:59)

Don't try to. We're not gonna group those. We're not gonna go cursing yoga. No, we're not gonna do that. Cause it's two different things. Don't try that.

A (20:08)

You still be. Yeah, a little bit. But I wanna talk about the defining moment when you decided that you were gonna take this walk really serious and that it was no back and forth. This is what I want to do. What was that moment where you were like, this is it. Because I feel like for everyone, there's a moment where they're like, God, I gotta do it your way.

B (20:28)

Yeah, I think I have a couple of those. I think it got really, really real for me. Like I said, I grew up a pk, but I didn't really know Jesus. I think I knew church. I knew activity. I knew the practice of what they say you're supposed to do. I knew how to play the game really well. I could go home, I'd be like. And I could be outside living my best life, and people would be like, you're saved. Wow. I didn't know, like. Yeah, because I just. I'm. You know, when I commit to something, I'm committed.

A (20:54)

Yeah.

B (20:54)

And so in 2017, I feel like it's really. When I felt the call of God on my life, and I was like, no, I don't want this. And I went on a complete journey to ensure, like, to prove to the Lord that I wasn't the one he wanted. So I was like, nah. So I remember one of my friends, former Line sisters, got married, and we went. I went to her wedding. I mean, I was. I turned up, like, I went on a binge. I'm like, I'mma prove to you. So I, like, I got drunk off my tail. I was high. Like, I remember being in the backseat of my car looking for snacks. Cause I was. I had the munchies, like, in the middle of the night. I was like, I have reached a new low. Like, eating. Like, it just was. I was trying to prove to God. Like, no, it's not. I promise you, I'm not the one you want to use. And when I got back home, I felt like I had this moment, and God was like, when you finish, I'm still right here waiting. And I think for me, it felt like one. It was like, oh, you're really not gonna change your mind. Like, I really was working hard. He's like, nah. Because when I called you, I considered who you are, who you would be, the decisions and the choices you would make, and it doesn't change my mind about you.

A (22:02)

Wow.

B (22:03)

And I think that made me dive in and go, dang, somebody who could love me that unconditionally, no matter what I do, he doesn't change on me. That's the kind of person I could rock with. Like, that's the kind of person I could ride for. And so I think in that moment, I made a decision, like, okay, whatever you ask me to do, I'm gonna say yes. Still didn't do that quite right.

A (22:22)

In a moment.

B (22:24)

That year, like, December of 2016, he told me to move 2017 of April to LA. And I didn't do it. And I was like, nah, like, I just need to stay here kind of thing. I had accepted that, like, ministry was gonna be my life. I had given up on my dreams. I didn't wanna be a preacher.

A (22:43)

What did you wanna do?

B (22:44)

Production. Like a producer, which is what my background is in. Like, I went to school for that. Like, that was why I moved to la. And somehow we ended up here, Pastor Brenda here. I'm sorry, I can't. But, yeah, I think. And so I didn't move. I stayed there. And then the worst thing that I think could have ever happened to me happened. So I was on staff at a church. And, like, when I say staff, like, people think the big churches, it was like kind of like a thousand people a week kind of church. So I did everything. I was like, over production. I ran creative. I traveled with the pastors, like, what they would call an armor bearer. I did that. I had keys to their house. Like, they were like my second family. Like, I called them moms and pops.

A (23:30)

Like.

B (23:30)

Like, they were my spiritual parents. And I started dating this guy, top of 2018, and then April of 2018, which would have been a year to date from when I was supposed to move to la. I find out that, like, my. The guy I was dating and my pastor were, like, in a relationship. Wait, this, like the male pastor, the.

A (23:50)

Man that you call Pops?

B (23:51)

Yeah.

A (23:53)

Wow. And so, like, initially, what was that feeling?

B (23:57)

Devastation, 100%. And I feel like, too, like, also detachment. Right? Like. Cause you know how something could be so crazy? It don't feel real.

A (24:06)

Yes.

B (24:06)

So then it's like, I don't think I ever processed the emotions of it. For real. For real. Until I moved to la, because I Think, like, I didn't want to, I think, in that. And so, for sure, devastated for a whole bunch of reasons. But I instantly went into, like, okay, like, what do I do? But then also, how do I keep this from getting out?

A (24:31)

Wow. Protective mode.

B (24:32)

Yeah. Because. And it wasn't because I was trying to protect them. It was like I was trying to protect what it would do to people.

A (24:38)

Yeah.

B (24:38)

Cause you see how you just made that face and you went, yeah. So in my head, it was like, nah. Like, this can't hit people. And so I went a whole month, like, watching them interact with each other and still showing up to work, watching them, like, communicate, acting like you knew.

A (24:53)

Nothing, you found out, and they didn't even know that you knew.

B (24:57)

No, no and no. Like, to be honest, had they never, like, forced my hand, they probably would have never knew. I knew I was just quit and moving over my life and never said nothing. Cause I just. I don't know. I just. I don't. And I'm sure that's unhealthy. You know, we unpack that in therapy and all those things, but I think I just. I watched them engage. I was dying. Like, I look at pictures from that time of my life. I looked like I was on some hard drugs. Like, my body was. I was breaking out because I was internalizing everything. And nobody, like, knew my mom. I would, like. I just caught a rhythm. So I would, like, wake up, go to work, go home, watch sermons, pray, play worship music. I turned the world off because I'm like, if I don't have the Lord, I ain't gonna make it through this. And so one day, my mom was like, are you good? I'm like, I'm fine. She's like, no, you not. And I was like, if you want to know, ask the Lord. I leave, go to work, come home. She was home early. I'm like, she looked like I felt. And I'm like, you good? She was like, nah. She said, holy Spirit revealed. And she says it verbatim.

A (26:04)

Oh, my goodness.

B (26:05)

I said, you walk with the Lord. I said, lord, you want to give me some stuff like that? I need some sure answers to the things. Let me.

A (26:14)

I know that's right. Wow.

B (26:15)

And for the first time, after maybe two or three weeks, I could finally, like, release a little bit. And she just goes, oh, baby. And so we kind of cried out. It gets confronted, whatever that means. It's like they were aware, you know, that I knew. I finally. Cause I didn't break up with a guy right away. Like, I was just, like, trying to navigate it kind of thing. And so. Yeah. I don't know. I feel like in that season, though, is where I learned, like, the heart of God.

A (26:47)

Yeah.

B (26:47)

I learned how to love people the way that God does, clearly, because we are trash, and God doesn't change on us. And so I learned. I feel like people will, like, call me pastor. That's where I develop. Being a pastor is about your heart. That's where I developed mine at, because it was weird. As much as I wanted to be angry with them, I had compassion.

A (27:08)

Mm. That says a lot about who you are, Brenda. Seriously. No, it does. Cause I don't know how it would. I know how it would happen. I ain't gonna sit here and say I don't know how it happened.

B (27:18)

See, I'm actually very clear on what the steps would be. Yeah. I think it's interesting to always talk about it, because now I'm living in this season of my life, and sometimes I could feel undeserving of it. Like, I was never pursuing this, like, pathway or whatever. And I feel like God always sits me in this moment and go, no, no, no, no. Your decision to honor in that moment is what you're living in. The fruit of now.

A (27:44)

Yes. Yeah, I see it.

B (27:45)

And, like, I have to hold that, because sometimes it could feel like, you know, like, imposter syndrome. Like, bro, I wasn't even after this, you know, kind of thing and the opportunities and the doors that God has trusted me with. I'm like, why me? And he's like, and not in that moment. I didn't have no clue what my life would be like now. You know what I'm saying? But I loved God enough to go, this isn't you. And I'm not gonna walk away from you because of what someone who represents you has done to me. And I think we hear a lot in this generation about church hurt.

A (28:18)

Yes.

B (28:19)

And it's like, yeah, because church is full of imperfect people. They gonna hurt you. But that is not a reflection of God.

A (28:27)

Not at all.

B (28:27)

Like, the reflection of God is that the fact that an imperfect person could still represent him and God doesn't change his mind. That's the reflection of God. Because when you find out someone's humanity, you like, how did they become where they became? That is the reflection of God.

A (28:42)

Absolutely.

B (28:43)

That's the grace and the mercy of God. And so I think we have to see it that way. But I learned forgiveness. I never, like, harbored stuff. I probably could have held them to a Little bit more like responsibility. I've never dealt with anything like that. There isn't a playbook for how you should. And I know, like, I shared this story recently. Somebody's like, there's no way you honor somebody. I'm like, have you ever read the story of David and Saul?

A (29:12)

Yes.

B (29:12)

Because Saul was trying to kill him.

A (29:14)

Sure was.

B (29:15)

David had the opportunity to lay him out and he just clips his little cloth like I could.

A (29:21)

Yeah.

B (29:22)

Because you recognize that at some point, this was God's man.

A (29:25)

Yeah. And.

B (29:26)

And until God removes me from this situation, you don't allow people's shortcomings to change you and your heart. And I think that's what we miss it when somebody hurt us. We wanna. They go low, we wanna go lower. I'm a drag. I'm going to the mud. And it's like, yeah. And then the core of that is that you changing who you are, which was really the enemy's assignment.

A (29:45)

Yeah. And that is a hurting worse when you realize, I really stood low and lost yourself because of someone else. Yeah. Yeah. That's crazy. Now do you feel like, how has that impacted the way you look at love, the way you approach relationships now? Is there like a mistrust or like.

B (30:03)

A guardedness where you're like, I always say I live life with a universal side eye.

A (30:08)

Like, yeah, right.

B (30:12)

You know, it's very unhealthy. But, you know, somebody will say, it's protection. It's really a prison. You know, if we think about it, it's like. Because I'm not allowing people to see, like, experience the fullness of who I am, or I'm not getting to experience the fullness of what they're supposed to bring into my life. Because I'm like, at any moment, I always, always, like, describe it as living life as if the bottom of the box is going to fall out.

A (30:40)

Wow.

B (30:42)

Because you pack a box, you like, oh, I got this. You close it. And then now I'm holding it, like, at any moment, the bottom. Because that's what I felt like. I felt like life just got ripped from underneath me. We not just talking about, like, oh, I was dating a guy that's. My entire life revolved around that system. My community, my friends. When I moved to LA and would go back, I hated going to Chicago. I hated going there to see my parents. But I would be in and out because it would remind me of what I lost. Cause I lost everything. Essentially. I had to start over. And then that's when I started to become a little Mean and bitter. Because it's like, they did this.

A (31:18)

Wow.

B (31:18)

So why do I have to start life over and I moved to la. It costs for us to breathe it's air right now.

A (31:26)

It does. That's why I ain't here. Yeah. It's too much.

B (31:28)

Yeah. And so it's like, why do. It was taking me a minute, like, to find a job. Cause here's the thing, right? We like, God got me. I didn't suffer through all this. So I'm about to be, you know. And here's the thing. I'm like. Cause I'm finna stunt on them. Like, they ain't finna. Cause when somebody make you mad or they do something to you, the first thing you wanna do is try to. You wanna level up to prove them wrong. That's dumb. It's so dumb. Living my life to prove you this what you missed out on and y' all should never let me go Y'. All. You fumbled a bag he'll marry like, you fumble me, don't fumble me, Right? And it's like, that's stupid. And I believe that's why God didn't allow it to happen right away. I got to do crazy things. Like when I first moved here, people couldn't even believe. Like, you just moved here. You still doing this? Yeah, But God had to do it with my heart and go, like, let's clean that up. Especially now, the level of influence I have, there's no way I could be able to share my testimony if I was bitter. Because you would be able to hear me. It's not even ever about them. It's about how I met God in the darkest place of my life. That. That's like. And so it's one of those things where, I don't know, you just. You have to trust God enough to know that he knew I could handle that.

A (32:42)

Yeah. Yeah. No, for sure. That's deep. And I commend you because, Brenda, I don't know how I would've handled that.

B (32:50)

I didn't handle it.

A (32:51)

That was. I didn't handle some. Just regular breakups bad. You know what I'm saying?

B (32:57)

I done drug a couple people. You talking about play it in my face?

A (33:01)

Play it in my face.

B (33:02)

Don't do that. I didn't handle it, though. It was really the grace of God.

A (33:06)

Now, you said that God told you to move a year before. Do you feel like if you had a moved a year before, you would have. God would have for sure. Wow.

B (33:16)

Yeah. Yeah. That's why. Because people always Ask like, how do you just be obedient? Because I've experienced life.

A (33:21)

Chills.

B (33:22)

I've experienced life when you don't say, when you don't do what God. There's no grace. Like, it's like when God is asking you to do something, we forget. He got the whole picture. I only got a portion of it. I have the comfortable space I'm in right now that I don't want to leave. But I need to trust that he's an all knowing God. So if he's like, hey, it's time to go, it's time to go. I'm trying to go wherever he at. And I didn't do it out of loyalty to that place. I'm like, now they need me. That's pride. That's usually if you ask yourself, why you not doing the thing God told you to do, you're going to say, they need me. I can't go. You're not God. And you're eliminating his ability to be God in their lives because you're occupying his space.

A (34:04)

Come on.

B (34:06)

So if he's saying, let's go, then I'm gonna roll with him. Cause so that's why I don't. Y' all gonna be all right? Yeah, I don't fool with that no more. Cause I'm good. Got my lesson. Don't need to run it back.

A (34:17)

Right?

B (34:18)

Yeah. So I think, yeah, I think what I'm learning is. Or I guess what I'm asking God to continue to deal with me on is like, my ability to trust people. Because I feel like, you know, I'll be in a space and I'm like, yeah. And then the moment they do something, I'm like, see this Why I don't be fooling people.

A (34:36)

Yeah.

B (34:37)

Because, you know, like, so. And it's not like I won't have connections with people. I have a lot of connections with people, but they won't get the core of me.

A (34:45)

Yeah. Mm. Mm. Are you in therapy?

B (34:49)

I'm going back.

A (34:50)

Okay. I'm only asking that because I feel like people should be able to experience the core of you. You know what I'm saying? Cause I can see it's like super beautiful. But when you have that mask or that guard up, people don't really get to see you fully.

B (35:06)

For sure.

A (35:06)

Yeah.

B (35:06)

And it is. I could, like, I was like going through my phone the other day where I seen videos, like prior to 2018, and I'm like, dang, I don't even know that person. Like, even. Like, the fact I Have a podcast. The fact that I publicly speak, like, anybody who met me in 2018 is shocked that this is my life now because I didn't. I would go to church, sit on the front row because there was a door, and as soon as they said, shalom, shalom, all is out the door. We would wait in line before they open the doors of the church. I would just be on my phone or I would FaceTime people so nobody would talk to me. I did not want interaction with people because I never wanted anybody to have the ability to hurt me the way I was hurt. So it was like, we have a mutual friend. Randy.

A (35:45)

Yes.

B (35:46)

I lived with Randy. Like the first, I don't know, five or six months I was here. I slept on an air mattress in his living room.

A (35:52)

Oh, he's. I love him.

B (35:54)

And me and Randy just had a conversation because he was like, you are so mean and guarded. I lived in the house with him and then he saw an interview I did and he was like, I never knew that's what you were going through, cuz. I. I didn't have language for I. I just went inside myself. And so even the first time, I, like, I did a fast with my best friend and she was like, God told me to do a fast. What does it have to do with me?

A (36:19)

Yeah.

B (36:20)

And she's like, I feel like you supposed to go on it with me. And I did the fast with her. And not even recognizing that the fast was to break, like the stuff that I was so inside myself, I didn't want to pray out loud. And I would be like, africans pray different. And I'm like, woo, child, y' all are going for hours. And I'll get my little three minutes in and then they'll take it over. And one day on that call, something broke. And from that moment forward, I hadn't been the same. I started a podcast like I started to find. Because usually it's like, man, I want to go back to the person I was before that. That'll never happen. That. That is a part of my life. But how can I become the person God intended for me to be with this a part of my story? And so, you know, baby steps. I feel like I've gotten a whole lot better. But then people start acting crazy. Then I'm like, little eye towards the side eye. So universal side eye.

A (37:12)

I love that. Universal side eye. I'mma use that. I love that.

B (37:15)

No, Crystal, we don't want to live life with universal side eyes. It is. It's like, hey, it's Like, I want to be your friend. Why? And then.

A (37:23)

No, because why do you want to be my friend?

B (37:25)

Even now? It's even 10 times worse now, right. With exposure and, like, people know now you have to. Aside from what I've been through, you got to go, why is this person here?

A (37:36)

Yeah. Have you found yourself even, like, with friends and relationships because of your new assignments on your life that you've had to filter through, Be like, I can't hang with you as much, or, okay, you good? You good. But no, you know, because I know for me, with just with level of success, I've had to do that. Does that happen with you for sure?

B (37:54)

100%. And even more so because I don't think we recognize the weight of friendship and covenant. Like, so very similar to relations like romantic relationships. Right. You connect with somebody, you say, no, man, it's my friend. There's an exchange that happens there, even emotionally, but also spiritually. So then you recognize that you dealing with stuff that ain't your stuff.

A (38:24)

Wow.

B (38:25)

But you've given that spirit access because of the person you're connected to. And so for me, I feel like that's something that God's been teaching me in this season, is like, we always say, like, oh, we have to steward our gifts. Right. And what's been placed in our hands, we are also a thing that needs be to be stewarded. Me, my life, who I am, who I allow, who I don't allow. Like, it. It also needs to be stewarded. And I. I didn't really think of it like that because I finally got no space. I'm like, I want friends. I'm like, I want a friend.

A (38:54)

Right.

B (38:54)

Maybe not, right? Yeah. Because that person is a. That person represents you. The moment I say, chris was my friend.

A (39:05)

Yeah.

B (39:05)

I'm like, then she's not a reaction. Oh, that's Brenda, friend.

A (39:12)

Yeah.

B (39:12)

You know what I'm saying? Like, you gotta be mindful of that. That's so true. I was not. Like, I didn't think of it that deep. Cause I'm still regarding myself as Brenda, the normal girl that was on social media. Right. Until people start attaching your name to stuff that don't really align with you. And I have another level of that because I'm a minister of the gospel. I'm not a celebrity. I'm not an influencer. I'm not famous. I'm a minister of the gospel. And nothing can taint that. I don't want anything to taint my ability to be able to speak into Things and the anointing and the oil to flow the way I needed it to flow. And so that's what a lot of things. But friendships has been something that God's been on me about. And I, like, randomly, he's like, go read Acts 9. And it's like, when Paul is on the road to Damascus. So I'm thinking he's, like, wanting me to go into consecration. I'm like, I ain't trying to fast, bro. I'm like, but I'm a read it. I'm reading it. And, like, for those of you who don't know the story, like, Paul is, like, on his way somewhere. He has an encounter. He goes blind. But then, like, Jesus gives him an instruction. He says, go to Damascus. Well, when he stands up, he recognizes that he's blind. And then it says, his companions led him. I had never seen that. And I was like, oh, you. You coming in my throat, Lord. And he's like, yeah. He said, are the people in your circle? Would you trust them to lead you to Jesus when you couldn't see him yourself?

A (40:39)

Now that you on my street, get out. Get out. That's so.

B (40:47)

Because I am also something that needs to be stewarded. Wow.

A (40:50)

I never read that scripture like that. But, yes.

B (40:52)

I never saw nobody. We always hear about Paul being blind. He need to go to the Bible, how he got there, his friends, I gotta rely on you to lead me to Jesus. Nah, bro, I probably ain't gonna make it. So that made me start qualifying the relationships. And here's the thing, right? It doesn't mean you get rid of everybody. It just means they need to be in the right position on the bus.

A (41:12)

Absolutely.

B (41:13)

Because if I gotta depend on your walk with Jesus to get me to him, when I'm struggling myself, I need to check the circle.

A (41:20)

Yeah.

B (41:21)

I need to go. All right. Are you here because I'm supposed to. And that's the thing. Like, I also recognize that sometimes I'm coming into friendship with people. I'm called to disciple.

A (41:30)

Wow.

B (41:31)

And it's like, we got to draw the line. Like, everybody can't have access. And for me, that's really hard because I'm a people person. I love people. I'm. I'm down to earth, and I don't want people to. Like, she changed because she. You know what I'm saying? Like, I'm not changing. Or maybe I am, but it's a good change.

A (41:50)

It's almost like with anything as you grow, you do change.

B (41:52)

We should change. Yeah. And it's like, no. Excuse me. It's like, no. I'm being entrusted with this level of influence. I have to steward it properly because I want God to continue to trust me.

A (42:03)

Yes. Yes.

B (42:04)

So that's how the friendship stuff be going.

A (42:07)

Good. So there was this video that went viral about you denouncing your sorority. Yeah. And my mom and aunt are both Deltas. All my friends are akas. What was that that led you to that? Now I've noticed, like, people are having meetings about it. I think ESSENCE wrote an article on it. It's become, like, a real topic since you actually opened up about it. And how do you feel about the conversations that are being had after you actually taking your stance on it? And then what led you to the point where you say, you know what? I'm gonna let this go.

B (42:39)

First of all, I didn't know it was going to turn up to be what it is. Like, I think. I think in hindsight, I wouldn't have done it where I did it, because I talked about it in the middle of a sermon.

A (42:53)

Yeah.

B (42:53)

And it was just because I was preaching on idols, and it kind of just came up. It wasn't like I did two services that day. It wasn't in the first service. It just happened in the second one. And so I think that I have been most shocked that the most pushback has come from church people. I thought, here's the thing, right? I was not oblivious to the fight. I was picking. Okay. It's like, I already know how this is going to be. I was a Delta for 12 years, so I know I was one of the people on the other side going, oh, my God, y', all, knock it off. It's not that deep. And so I was aware of, like, the pushback in the warfare, Right. It's like I struck an altar. So I already know. Like, I knew what was gonna happen. I think that. I think the misconception could be that I'm trying to force something down someone's throat when that's never, like, my vibe.

A (43:48)

Like, if anybody do what you do.

B (43:51)

What you wanna do. You know what I'm saying? Like, don't take my word for it. Don't open the Bible and find out.

A (43:56)

Yeah.

B (43:56)

And so I feel like, for me, like, if you've engaged with any of my content, you'll know, like, whatever I'm going through in life, I' ma share it. This happened to be something I had just. The first time I shared it was on another podcast. Well, because I had just renounced the day before.

A (44:11)

Wow.

B (44:11)

So it was very fresh.

A (44:12)

Yeah.

B (44:13)

It was like, oh, I would. Okay. So just like this. I was doing an interview with this girl, and in the conversation, she keeps bringing up that she, like, renounced her sorority. And she doesn't, like, say what it is. I'm getting irritated because I'm like, this has nothing to do with the conversation. Why does she keep saying it? And we talked about. The conversation was about purpose. And so she goes, yeah, like, I renounce. Whatever. And so then I start. Because she keeps repeating it. I start asking the Lord, what are you after? Because something keeps coming up. It had came up for me, like, earlier that week in some Another space. So I'm like, what's going on? And so, long story short, she was in the same sorority I was a part of. And so then she goes, yeah, like, I wrote this. I have this podcast or whatever. You should listen to it. I was like, oh, yeah, cool. Like, I'll check it out. She's like, no, and I'm gonna send you a letter. She said, cause, Brenda, we need to get you out of there. And I just go, like, I laugh like how you did with yoga. I need to say that. Like, yeah, yeah, I hear you. I hear you. Yeah, yeah.

A (45:09)

But nah.

B (45:10)

Yeah. And so that was like. It was like a week went by. I'm driving. I'm about to fly to Atlanta. I'm driving home from the. And Holy Spirit says, put the podcast on. Because it wasn't a visual one. So I was never gonna listen to it.

A (45:22)

Okay.

B (45:22)

It's just the truth. I don't be listening to podcasts.

A (45:24)

Right.

B (45:25)

Watch. You know, I'm not gonna listen.

A (45:27)

Listen to. I'm the same way. I like to. I'm a visual person.

B (45:28)

Yeah. So I'm like, I'm never gonna watch this. I was like, the nerve of you to send me something that was audio. And Holy Spirit says, put it on. So I'm driving in a car. I'm driving from, like, the grove, and I live far. So I had, like, 48 minutes, right? Holy Spirit says, put it on. The Pineapple podcast is an hour and two minutes. I got home in an hour and three minutes.

A (45:46)

Wow.

B (45:47)

And I was like, bruh. So I'm listening to the podcast now. Something about me is like, I pledged in 2011, and I could not remember, like, what I actually did. Like, the whole crossing the Sands process. I had no recollection of it.

A (46:02)

Oh, wow.

B (46:03)

And so I'm like, listening to the podcast, and she starts saying stuff. 20 minutes in, I'm bawling Because she starts talking about how. She starts saying, like, okay, we take an oath. And in the oath, we say, like, the president of the chapter says, you are taking this oath before the eternal spirit of truth, and you cannot leave it until the day of judgment. We say these things, and then we are at a ceremonial table that has a candle that's lit. We have to kneel at it, and we take the oath. So the argument on social media is like, this is not an idol for me. I still love the Lord. I still do this. No, it's inherently an idol. It is idolatry. The moment I take an oath, you are deceived to think you're taking an oath in an organization. But every organization has a Greek deity attached to it.

A (46:58)

Right?

B (46:59)

Right. And it's not, like, not known. We talked to Minerva, like, in the process, she is present.

A (47:07)

Wow.

B (47:08)

And so, like, she said, I'm listening to the podcast, and I'm going, bruh, I did what?

A (47:14)

Right? You're like.

B (47:15)

I'm like, nah, I didn't do that. And I like, I did do that. And she said something. She says, and this is when I made the decision. She says, when you show up to an altar without a sacrifice, you're the sacrifice. I said, actually, I will not be. And y' all can get me up out of here immediately. And so it's like, what I always say is like, bro, like, don't take my word for it. The fact that I'm saying, bro, this is idolatry. Go check it out. Yeah, like, when Satan tempts Jesus right before he goes into his ministry, he perverts scripture. He uses scripture and spits it to Jesus like, he isn't the word, but we'll get on him. And Jesus is like, no. These organizations are taking actual scripture, removing words from it, and putting in words that represent the organization, bruh, that's. We can't do that. And so I commented on the essence thing. Cause I was like, come on and let the conversation go. And so I put on there, like, bro, don't. I think that because what used to irritate me was, like, when people would denounce, they would give, like, black Israelite energy. It's like, you gotta come. It's like, stop yelling at me. I'm not even listening to nothing you're saying. And understanding the severity of it, I know why they go that hard. But I feel like God's given me a grace to communicate hard truths on a level where you will at least go check it for yourself. And I Had a friend who I went to middle school with that every time I would post something about it, I would think about her because she had just crossed AKA the year before.

A (48:43)

Oh, wow.

B (48:44)

Like, like the end of last year.

A (48:45)

Oh, wow.

B (48:45)

And so every time I would post something, I would go, I wonder if she's looking at this.

A (48:49)

Right, right.

B (48:50)

And the crazy thing was I went home for Mother's Day and she sent me this long message about denouncing wow. And she had just like just crossed, just fresh. And she goes, she said, brenda, what you did for me was you disarmed me enough to go researching myself. And that is my heart. It's not because if you do it just because somebody told you to do it, it's not gonna last, it's not gonna take root. I want you to go and do the same thing I did. But you'll start researching. No, I did say that. It says eternal spirit of truth. Who is that? Because Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. So somebody else claiming his name, that's another God, right? So it's like, it's clear as day. It's just we don't want to see it because we don't want to own it. And I get, man, I know what those organizations have done for the black community, what they've done to progress us, but they're doing it all in the name of another God. So it's like we do community service. In whose name? Because you don't show up there and say here in Jesus name. You said you would name up whatever the organization is. So who's getting the credit?

A (49:49)

Wow.

B (49:50)

Or the other argument is this is Christian principles. You know what a Christian principle is? Love your neighbor. I can take that and say, wow, that sounds really good. And go start a Satanist organization and say it's founded on Christian principles. Yeah, not Christian principles. Is it Christ centered? Where is Jesus in this? And so I think, like for me it was pretty cool. It took me 20 minutes because I cried, because I couldn't believe that I had taken an oath to another. I would never do that in my right mind. But it happens as we're like teenagers right at the brink of adulthood, very malleable, we ain't thinking about no covenants. And nobody's saying, well, maybe I should research this. And the reason it made it to ESSENCE is cuz a girl who had just crossed two weeks prior, she denounced.

A (50:36)

Wow. Wow.

B (50:38)

And that's.

A (50:39)

Do you feel like there's anything that the organization could do to make it right? Like within Like, I know they have to change, like, a lot within the organization.

B (50:49)

Yeah.

A (50:49)

I feel like it's pretty much.

B (50:52)

I mean, I think anything can be redeemed. I just don't know if that can be redeemed because I don't know if it was ever for the Lord. You know what I'm saying? I don't, and I don't. Here's the other thing. Right. I don't think that that organization knew that's what they were doing. You know what I'm saying?

A (51:06)

But now that they know, I don't.

B (51:07)

Know if they know. I don't know if they want to hear that. I mean. Cause they had. There's. When you are renouncing, they ask, would you like to discuss with your, like, with them about it? I clicked yes, and they responded. But then after I reached out to follow up for us to have a conversation, they didn't. Because on my, like, my paper, they asked you, you know, like, why are you leaving? I was like, this goes against Jesus. Period. Period. I want out.

A (51:31)

Yes.

B (51:31)

And it is. It's like, it's the grace and mercy of God that will tell you. Like, I mean, because you're still allowed to do. I was still preaching.

A (51:39)

Yeah.

B (51:39)

I had no knowledge that that's what I was doing. So I think there's a grace. Right. But the moment you come into truth, you're responsible for what you do with that. And people like, I've seen all the arguments, and the first thing I thought was, I've seen a lot of pastors, you know, give clap back and what they shouldn't do. I've seen them defend their letters more than I've seen them defend the actual church. And I think that says a lot about the weight that holds in their life.

A (52:08)

Absolutely.

B (52:09)

Because the church be getting bullets every week. I ain't seen y' all make no podcast. I ain't seen y' all go in the shade room comments and drop, you know, what the Lord said about the church, the institution, he, you know, So I think that in itself proves what has your heart and what has your loyalty. And so I really. I don't want to argue about it. That's never been my heart. I'm just saying, hey, I'm on the journey to following Jesus, and this is what I came across. And you're welcome to step into this, truth or not, because it says we have to work out our own salvation. Right. So I can't stand in line with Jesus for you. And vice versa.

A (52:45)

Right? No, for sure, there is people Believe.

B (52:49)

You'Re a preacher, right. You know the Bible back and forth, you understand scripture, you getting this theological understanding. So they believe they can't fathom that. You could experience seasons of, like, seasons where you are not feeling close to God, you're lacking faith, whatever that is. Right. And then there's also the fact that, again, because you're human, you battle things through depression, and anybody else will be like, but how. You're a preacher, so you should know what the formula is to. So how do you reconcile that? Like, how do you. How do you navigate as a minister of the Word, those seasons where you don't feel that closeness to God and you don't feel that proximity or you feel like there's a lack of faith? Okay. So I think the misconception is that because someone is. I don't. I don't like further along in their faith. But I guess because you would always see me preaching, I think the idea that I don't struggle with human things, and I think, like, that doesn't make sense because I'm a human. I think part of that comes from leaders not being transparent when they're given the opportunity to. And I feel like that is why I'm very intentional. Like, nah, bro. I struggled today because I need people to know we on this journey together. I know I'm struggling. You might be struggling. I'm struggling, too. And so I think for me, it keeps me from becoming an idol because I'm like, nah, bro. I was just struggling with that yesterday. And I think that it allowed, like, inviting people into that space helps for me to say, like, I'm struggling. I don't have it. Sometimes I live in a cubbyhole, because when I'm going through depression or battling it, I think what I recognize is those are the moments where I feel God the closest.

A (54:30)

Yes.

B (54:31)

Like, it's not when I'm on a platform preaching. It's not when I'm shooting a podcast or doing an interview or whatever people think is the pinnacle of success? I feel God the most when I need him the most. And so I think being transparent helps with that. I've journeyed through anxiety. I don't deal with that no more because I've come into the revelation of, like, no, I have authority over this.

A (54:53)

Yes.

B (54:54)

And there is a blueprint for anxiety. It's in scripture. It says, be anxious for nothing, period. That's a command. And so I practice that. How am I not anxious? Whatever I'm worried about, I take it to the Lord, and it don't gotta be this. Oh, I come humbly as you. I'm like, hey, bruh, I'm trying to figure out how we can make this happen. That's how I talk to him, too. Yeah. It's like, nah, he is ever present. You know what I'm saying?

A (55:18)

All the time. Yeah.

B (55:20)

Depression runs in my bloodline. I can remember having an aunt who was very, like, put together, very bougie. And I've seen her in a dark place. It scared the living daylight. It's etched in my mind. I maybe was like 9 or 10, and I could see her sitting in a dark house in a row, not looking like herself. And I'm like, I never want to experience that. But it's bloodline. Like my grandfather, my dad, my aunt. And so it's like, nah, bro, this stops with me.

A (55:48)

Yes.

B (55:48)

But that situation that I told y' all about earlier, like, that I probably walked through every mental illness, you know, like, in processing that. But I do. I remember having this moment where I considered taking my life. And I guess now the term for it is passive suicidal ideology, where you, like, don't. Like, you're not like, I'm gonna kill myself, but you feel like you have nothing to live for, so you're passively thinking about suicide. And I didn't even recognize. This was a year. I had just moved to LA. August of 2018. This happened April 2019. So it's a year from when that stuff happened. Our body remembers trauma.

A (56:29)

Yes.

B (56:30)

And I hadn't even recognized that I was in the bed for five days. Wow. Like this. But I had a. I lived in a house with, like, five girls, and I had a roommate who knocked on my door every day. And she would just. Some days I would yell at her. Some days I'll act like I ain't hear it.

A (56:49)

Yeah.

B (56:50)

But she would come back every single day.

A (56:53)

Thank God. Friends at knock, like, seriously, bruh. Yeah.

B (56:57)

And she has, like this. Her name is Nick, but she has, like, this little soft voice, and she's like, brenda. She's like, I just wanted to know if you wanted to come out and, like, watch tv. Cause, like, TV is my love language.

A (57:09)

Okay.

B (57:10)

And so she's like, she knew what to get you. Yeah. And I'm like, nah, bro. Like. Or I would yell at her. Or some days I wouldn't even. But to be so far in yourself that you don't even recognize that you have. I had been laying there for five, just not moving. Cause I think at that point, I was like, we could end this. Like, I don't feel like I have anything to live for. And like clockwork, she would knock on the door. So maybe day five, I was like, if I don't get up, she's never gonna leave me.

A (57:41)

She's not gonna leave me alone.

B (57:42)

Right.

A (57:42)

So let me get up.

B (57:43)

So I did. I ended up getting up. We watched tv. And then we were sitting there. She's like, you wanna go get ice cream? So then I got dressed, took a shower, put on clothes. We go get ice cream. She's like, you wanna go walk? So, like, we go to the lake. And I broke down. And I think in that moment.

A (58:03)

I.

B (58:04)

Feel like that was when I, like, even though it was Nick, it's like, that's how God pursues us.

A (58:10)

It is like.

B (58:13)

Cause usually we have those moments alone, you know, like, nobody knows. That's the stuff we carry. Like, nobody knows those dark moments, but he's the one that keeps knocking. And you might think, like, man, God isn't. No, he's right there in that with you. Like, always. Because sometimes I don't have the language to articulate how I feel. It's just how I feel. I could be live. Life could be great. And that thing will sit on you.

A (58:42)

Yeah.

B (58:43)

And I'm like, nah, bro. That gave me a clear picture of how much God loves me and us to articulate that. And so I think sometimes it's pride that makes us go like, nah, I don't. I don't deal with that. No, I do deal with that. It's why I need God.

A (59:02)

Yeah.

B (59:02)

I feel like the higher you rise, the more you deal with that. What y' all think? Me, I am heartbroken every time I see someone die by suicide. Because I can remember a time where that could have been me.

A (59:17)

Yeah. Yeah.

B (59:19)

And somebody will say they were so happy, bro. We the best at it. Best Edit and it's like, no, no, no. That was me. And being honest about that, like, no. The fact that you think I'm further along with God is because of those moments. The reason I'm all in with him is because he was all in with me when I was like, nah, bro, I can't do this. Mm.

A (59:46)

Mm.

B (59:47)

I can't. Yeah. And so I think, like, I always look at it as stuff like depression or anxiety. Those are invitations to invite God in to those moments. It's like, I have reached the end of where I can go. And where I end is where he begins. And you could do it. That time in my life marked me. Cause if she didn't Knock on that door. Yeah, it would have been a rip. Cause in that moment, it all was. I was finished.

A (60:23)

And so you're away from everybody, away from your family, everybody. Isolated, literally, for sure.

B (60:28)

And I was like. And that happened, like, the beginning of April. And then within a few weeks, my life turned around. I got my first job, worked at tbn. I was a producer then I did BET that year. My life, literally, it's right when you right there. The enemy's job is to take you out before you reach the point. So the harder it gets, you gotta know you right on the brink of it. He's like, even today, like, not today, but, like, in this time of my life, I have moments. Three weeks ago, I was like, y' all could have all of this. It is a wrap. Like, I'm finna go get a job. Cause I could go get one of those really easily.

A (61:09)

Yeah.

B (61:10)

I'm like, I'm finna go get a job. This whole, like, all these expectations. Everybody wants you to do what they want you to do. They cool with you walking in your calling, but only if it aligns with how they see it. And I had reached a place of frustration. I was like, God, I don't want to. I never asked for this. Because there is a weight and a pressure that comes with people like you being Pastor Brenda. It's like, sometimes I just want to be Brenda.

A (61:34)

Yeah, right?

B (61:36)

Like, and nobody know my name. You know what I'm saying? Like, and so I think we also think that because we follow God, life's supposed to be roses. And I don't think that. But sometimes I reach a point where I'm like, it's not even worth it. And I remember, like, being. Two weeks ago, I was on the phone with my friend, and I had just reached a place of frustration. And I was like, I gotta call you back.

A (61:54)

Yeah.

B (61:55)

And I just cried, and I had to take a walk. And I'm like, I don't want to do this anymore. And I felt like a couple days after that, I got in. I was in the shower, like, to talk to the Lord in the shower. And I felt like he was like, don't take it personal.

A (62:10)

Wow.

B (62:12)

Cause it's like, bro, one thing come at you, like, cool, bro, back to back.

A (62:17)

It's a lot.

B (62:17)

And then, like, with people that, like, you care about, like, it's like, I thought you was rock. You not rock. Okay. I thought you was. Okay. You not. All right, all right. I got it. All of y' all could, like, I'm good. And I think I had just reached a boiling point. And I just was like, bruh, I don't want it no more.

A (62:33)

Yeah.

B (62:34)

And he was like, don't take it personal.

A (62:35)

Don't take it personal.

B (62:36)

And he's like, it has nothing to do with you and everything to do with what I'm calling you to do.

A (62:44)

Because, yeah, he puts you on assignment, not them.

B (62:46)

And he's like, yeah, don't worry about him. And the attacks are not towards Brenda. The attacks are on what Brenda carries.

A (62:54)

Yeah.

B (62:55)

But if I take Brenda out, what Brenda's supposed to carry into the world never makes it.

A (62:59)

Yeah.

B (62:59)

And so I was like. So then I started saying, don't take it personal. I was like, baby, da da da, da, da, da da da.

A (63:08)

I love it. Yeah.

B (63:10)

And it's so good. That made it easy.

A (63:12)

I love when he comes back and answers you, like. And it'd be the subtle, don't take it personal for sure. And it'd be like, ah, got it. Okay.

B (63:19)

That's what it was. Yeah. And for me, it clicked because then he's like, okay, like, we think about Jesus, right? Because Satan isn't all knowing. He don't know everything. But the moment Jesus is born, then Herod issues a decree that says, take out all the boys three and under. He like, I don't know what's coming for me, but I recognize that something's about to attack the kingdom of darkness. I gotta shut it down. And so when we think about that, when we recognize, like, our lives and what we've been entrusted to Stuart are not about us, it's like God's like, okay, I need this thing. Let me put it in crystals. It's like, I need this thing. Let me put it in Brenda's hand. Now Satan's job is to ensure that that thing don't become what it's supposed to become. So he gonna try everything. And it's usually the people that are closest to you.

A (64:01)

Wow, thank you. Thank you for that question. Dinora. Thank God for Nick. She was an angel in that moment for sure.

B (64:08)

And every time I do something, like, I appreciate the Potter's house, I was. And she's like, oh, my God. I was like, thank you for knocking on my door to ensure that I lived. And so whenever something good happens, like, the whole world gonna know dick.

A (64:19)

Why would I have to cry?

B (64:22)

Cause you understand the weight of that. Like, to have. Yeah, bro.

A (64:32)

All right, so we always close out the show with positive outcomes. And we read one of our open listener letters, and then we Give them advice. Okay, so this one says, hi, Crystal. My name is Asia Kirkland. I am 23 and I am starting my serious walk of faith. I have built a platform on social media and I am known for being sexy or more so, tempting and lustful. I know in being a Christian, you can be harshly judged for it. I want to know if there is a balance of sexy and yet somewhat modesty that you need to uphold or do I need just a fresh start? I have decided that when I get baptized to abstain from sex with my partner until we are married, which will be hard because our relationship started off very sex based and we progressed to both of us deciding to walk to take the walk of faith. I'm afraid I'll fail God and God in the end. How should I go about this?

B (65:28)

I'm like.

A (65:31)

Wow, you know what? Okay, so this is a good question because I've noticed a lot of women lately, a lot of people like, that God has put in position that has, like all these followers have turned their life over to Christ. And some of them have been, like she described, very sexy and lustful. And they are taking on this new walk with God and being very vocal about it. But it's a lot of judgment, like she said, that comes along with it. What would you tell her? Because for me, I know, like, I had to be mindful of, like, the young women that follow me and the image that I want to portray for them and to show them it's okay to love yourself, but you don't have to show everything. You know what I'm saying? What would you tell her in that? You see how I just threw back at you?

B (66:18)

I said, oh, who fixed this question? I trying to get us cancer. I ain't scared. I think that. So here's the first thing, right? I think that relationship with Jesus is progression, not perfection, right? And so I think that I used to always say, like, convictions come according to your callings, right? So some stuff you could do, I can't do because of what I'm called to do. I think that convictions come when you mature spiritually, right? I think when you, you have to pay attention to why you ask the things you ask, right? So why are you now all of a sudden concerned? Because something in you is saying, maybe I shouldn't do this, maybe I shouldn't. Yeah. And I think what we miss is that when, when, that, when a conviction comes, it's not God saying, ugh, why are you doing that? He's saying, I have so much more for you. And you're now living beneath where I'm calling you. And so I think if we view it that way, we'll lose this whole, like, religion is so based on rules. It's like, no, it's God saying, baby girl, I see you so much better than that. And let me show you what life like that looks like. And let me show you that if you do it my way, it'll be way better than what you could have done in your own strength. I think it's that love that I think the other part is you already have a social media following and it's growing because of these things. But now you've had a life change. So now you have to go, okay, am I going to trust God, or am I going to trust what I can do in my own strength? And there is a process. I too have that same process. I'm like, ah, should I post this? Should I not? Sometimes I post stuff that I'm like, let me take that down.

A (67:57)

Right, right, right.

B (68:01)

And something like my rubric is this. It's very simple. Is this leading them towards Jesus or away from him? And that's you just. That is what it is. Because the moment you get loud about being a believer, you set the standard for how people respond to what you post. Because he could be calling you to switch it. And you also, to your point, you are responsible for where you lead people.

A (68:24)

Yes.

B (68:25)

And that's the weight like we hold in our hands.

A (68:27)

It is. Yeah, yeah. Because people look at what we do and they're like, oh, that's what I'm supposed to do.

B (68:30)

Oh. And the first thing they're gonna say is also, Chris. Yeah, that's how Britta do that. No, you do that. It was not me. I don't know who it was. That's.

A (68:40)

Yeah, yeah, I feel you. That's good. Thank you. Another thing we do before we close is what I'm going through and what I'm growing through. And I'll start off by saying, I am. I'm going through a phase where I'm trying to find the balance of resting and pushing myself. Because I feel like, you know that we always say, God never put more on than we can bear, but there are. Sometimes I'm like, somebody has made a comment one day and said that if it's. If it's. If God means for you to do this, it won't exhaust you, but if you may be tired, but you won't be just completely exhausted. And there's been moments where I'm like, I'm on the brink, Lord. Like, is this your thing or not? I'll be tired. So just trying to balance making sure that I'm taking care of myself along with everything that's coming my way. I feel like this last. This whole year has just been like one thing after another, and it's been amazing. But also just finding that balance of saying, okay, now you need to lay down. Like, yesterday I slept for hours. Like, it's the most sleep I've gotten probably in months. It was so good.

B (69:48)

You need a good nap.

A (69:49)

Yeah. Yes. So that's unbalancing right now, what I'm going through and growing through. What about you?

B (69:57)

I think going and growing through what it means to be set apart. Like, it's been really hard for me.

A (70:08)

It's an adjustment.

B (70:10)

It's like a. Oh, I thought I could. I can't. Oh, I can't. Ah. Yeah. And like, on some very, like, simple stuff, it's been really hard. And it kind of goes to this idea that, like, it'll be worth it on the other side, but in the moment, you be like, dang, bro. Right? And then I'm always like, I didn't even ask for this. Right? This is you. This is your life. You know what I'm saying? Like, I didn't ask for this. And so, man, I'm going through that and growing through it. Cause I. Stretching me. But it's even recently I thought I was going to start Patreon and the Lord told me no.

A (70:52)

Really? What do. Why do you think? Well, I mean, I know it's from you and God, if.

B (70:56)

No, I could share it, but why.

A (70:57)

Do you feel like he told you?

B (70:59)

Cuz he told me I was a minister first and I can't. Antoine didn't know.

A (71:07)

Okay.

B (71:08)

He didn't know. Okay. So I was like, I got myself in trouble. No, bro. Like, just like three days ago, he said, what are you talking about? Yeah, like I. I was ready. Oh. I mean, it's. It's. It's ready. It's loaded.

A (71:24)

Yeah.

B (71:24)

And it gets to the point where it's like, I can. I can't do what everybody else could do. And. And it was less about, like, the thing. It's not. That's not bad. But I. I can lose the minister in the things. In the things.

A (71:41)

And sometimes you can. Yeah, I know what you mean.

B (71:43)

And it was. And it was like God gave me a choice. He led me to a scripture. He always said, he said, he said.

A (71:49)

What'd he say?

B (71:50)

He said, It's Hebrews 11. It talks about a remnant, which is like a group of people that are set apart. And he said. He talks about their table of wealth being their trap in their snare. So they're successful, so they don't even recognize that God isn't with them.

A (72:11)

Wow.

B (72:12)

And he just said. He said, you could do it. It's gonna be great. He was like, but your success won't allow you to recognize when I'm not there.

A (72:20)

Oh, wow.

B (72:22)

I said, dang, you didn't want to tell me before I had spent some money.

A (72:27)

That's what I'm saying.

B (72:27)

I have been working really hard, build.

A (72:29)

Everything up to get ready for it.

B (72:31)

And he said, trust me.

A (72:34)

I got you.

B (72:34)

It's exactly what he said, actually. And I was like, all right, bro.

A (72:37)

But things set up over here, but.

B (72:41)

When you start talking about, like, a series of yeses, it's like, I'm going.

A (72:44)

Be able to market watch what I do. Yeah, you know, you did Patreon. Yeah, I see. New York Times bestseller.

B (72:51)

Come on.

A (72:52)

Amen. He going to do his thing for sure.

B (72:55)

But that's what I'm growing through. Like, what it means to be set apart. Cause I thought, you know, it was enough to say yes to become a preacher. Cause nobody has to do that, right? And he's like, girl, this is. That's light work in comparison to other things. So, yeah, I'm just, you know, I would prefer to be able to preach to a room and they be set free, then preach to a room, and they be like, that was a good word. That's the difference.

A (73:26)

Yeah. Big difference.

B (73:27)

And so, yeah, I want to be trusted to carry the oil and the anointing.

A (73:32)

Come on. Oil. I love that. So the last thing we do is keep it blank, sweetie.

B (73:41)

Okay?

A (73:42)

And we're gonna fill in the blank. And for this episode, touch on so many things. Keep it. Trying to make sometimes hard to fill in that blank because you want to say something else. Keep it spirit led, sweetie. Let the spirit guide you.

B (74:05)

Dang, that was a good one.

A (74:06)

You rubbing off on me? Just Brenda.

B (74:10)

Just Brenda is crazy. Keep it honest, sweetie.

A (74:20)

That's where it starts. Honesty.

B (74:21)

Honesty with ourselves, but with God, too.

A (74:24)

Yes, that's good. That's good.

B (74:27)

Be honest. We did it. We did it. This was fun.

A (74:33)

Thank you so much.

B (74:33)

Thank you for having me.

A (74:34)

I appreciate you for your time, guys. Thank you so much for tuning into this episode of Keep It Positive, sweetie. If you want to write into our positive outcomes listener letter, you can write into keepitpositsweetiemail..com and that's sweetie with an ie. You can follow me on all platforms at lovechrystalrenae, and that's L U V. Brenda. Tell the people they can find you all the platforms.

B (74:54)

All right, so you can find me on all social media platforms at ambrendapalmer. On TikTok, Instagram, and YouTube. I have a podcast called Life in Perspective with Brenda Palmer. It's like, literally available everywhere. And more importantly, we are doing a popup tour encounter nights. We are going to six cities and I want to see you there. So just Visit us@comealivecollective.com to get your tickets and be in the building because Jesus is going to be there. So wouldn't you want to be where Jesus is? Duh.

A (75:25)

Thank you, Brenda.

B (75:26)

Thank you for having me. Absolutely.

A (75:27)

Make sure you guys tap into everything that Brenda has going on. We want to make sure support this amazing sister. I'm appreciative of your time. And we got you on the sofa. We did it.

B (75:37)

We did it.

A (75:39)

Thank you guys so much for tuning to this episode of Keep it positive, sweetie. In the meantime, in between time, you know what to do. Keep it positive, sweetie. See you guys later.

B (75:56)

It.