← Keep it Positive, Sweetie
Keep it Positive, Sweetie
Do It Anyway w/Tasha Cobbs Leonard
00:50:31
Gospel star, Tasha Cobbs Leonard, discusses her fertility journey and new devotional book.
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- [00:00]
A
Coming up on Keep it positive, sweetie.
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B
Sometimes your heart will be broken and you don't understand the season that you're in, But I want you to dig deep within yourself and do it anyway. And so I got up seven days after my dad went to be with the Lord and I won my first Grammy. Sitting there, they called my name, and I was like, there is no way these people are calling my name. So I got up, and the first thing I said is, seven days ago, the greatest man who ever walked the face of this earth went to be with Jesus. And I would love for you guys to honor my father. And so the entire academy stood up and gave my dad a round of applause.
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A
Hi, I'm Crystal Renee Hayslett, and this is Keep it positive, sweetie. A safe space to heal, laugh, grow, and love. I can't wait to bring today's guest to the couch. Her musical ministry has definitely brought me through. I'm talking about the goddess of gospel, Tasha Cobbs Leonard. With a voice that carries the essence of praise and worship, a musical ministry that has blessed millions around the world, Tasha Cobbs Leonard is one of gospel's most grounded torchbearers. In recent years, she's traveled the world carrying her gift of song and surrender with her. These days, she's on and off tour stages, managing a ministry with her husband, mothering her children, and enjoying the release of her new devotional, do it Anyway. In the midst of all that, guys, we got her on the couch to talk to me. Tasha, thank you so much for coming. Seriously. First of all, you came in here, you got the curls popping. We both got the curls popping. What made you even decide to cut it off? We talked about big chop. That's such a. It can be a spiritual journey when you chop your hair off or emotional.
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B
Yes.
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A
What made you chop your hair off? I love it.
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B
And I love that you mentioned that, because I don't think my expectation was for it to be so spiritual. Originally, I was like, hey, I'm gonna cut it, because a lot of people don't know I don't do wigs. So I had sew ins all years. And so it was just pulling, pulling, pulling, damaging my hair. And then when I don't have the sew ins, you're doing braids. It's the same thing. It's kind of. I know we call it protective styles, but it's not so protective, you know? So it was just kind of pulling my hair, and I noticed that it was just damaged. So I told my stylist, I said, after this. So I did the big curls for Woman Evolved.
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A
So beautiful. Oh, my gosh.
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B
Thank you. Stunning.
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A
Yeah. I loved it.
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B
She said, after this, I'm gonna chop it. And she was like, all right, let's go for it. Because I wanted it to be healthy. So that was really the original thought behind it. But after cutting it, I was just telling some of my friends, like, I feel. Feel exposed, but it's in a great way. Like, you see me?
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A
Yes.
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B
Like, almost like I have been hiding. I was talking to Priscilla Shire called me, and she was like, girl, your hair is amazing. I was like, you know, just pray for me. I'm in this place where I feel like something is being revealed. And it may not be for everybody, but I feel like, you know, all the years of hiding behind the hair, hiding behind this and that, now I'm in this space where, hey, this is me. Take it or leave it. So that's it. It's been a really good space. Spiritual journey.
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A
Yes. I love that.
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B
And my husband loves it, and that's all that matters. Okay.
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A
That's all that matters. I love that. But I love how I can see your beautiful face. And I asked you, I was like, have any compliments? Have you got any?
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B
Like, a lot, yes.
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A
Because a lot of times we don't realize how we hide. We do. Not intentionally, but we hide behind our hair. And we don't realize when we reveal all that, it's like, wow, people really can see your true beauty.
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B
And I can see me. Yeah.
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A
That's powerful. That's powerful. I love it. Do you have any products that you like to use?
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B
You know what? I've tried a few, and I like that. It's different things for different people. Yes. And so for me, it's been right now the Soft Curls by Miss Jessie Shout out, but it's been working really good.
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A
I love it.
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B
And the curls pop a bit.
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A
I know that's right. I'm here for it. I'm here for it now. You recently just dropped a new devotional called Do It Anyway, and I feel like that is a testament of just who you are. There's things that you've done that the Christian or gospel world may look at, like, but you do it anyway, and it works.
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B
Yeah.
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A
You know, what actually inspire your devotional.
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B
So the devotional is actually the second portion, I'll say, off of the main book. So the main book is called Doing Anyway, and the story behind that is when I released my album Grace. So that's the album that has Break Every Chain Incompetence, happy, you know, smile. All those songs are on there. I. That album was nominated for seven awards that year. So it was Stellar Awards, Dove Awards, and two Grammys. Wow. And literally a freshman artist. It's my first album with a label, and my dad was a down home. I'm from Jessup, Georgia, so country pastor, and he didn't leave our church for anything. So literally we would do vacations from Sunday evening to Saturday morning, because we would be back on Sundays. Right. And so all of the award shows literally are on weekends. So Saturdays, Sundays. And I'm thinking, oh, my goodness, Daddy is not leaving Justice. But they weren't that kind of parent. They were very, very supportive. So my dad was like, hey, Daddy's gonna be with you in Nashville. I'm coming to Nashville, but Daddy's not gonna be in la, but I want you to go anyway. He just kept saying, daddy's not gonna be in la. I want you to go anyway. And I was like, nobody expects you to go to Nashville, Louisiana. You're not leaving Jessup. So I'm just excited that you're coming anywhere. And so the Stella Awards happened in Nashville, and I had 60 seconds to sing Break Every Chain. So. 60 seconds? 60 seconds. It felt like two minutes, but it was 60 seconds. So I was like, I'm gonna give it all I got. I mean, 60 seconds. And to look out and see my parents in the audience, because they had, like, the stage in the middle of the space, and so I could see everybody's faces. My dad, he's beaming with pride. And so that night, I won three Stella Awards, and we were hanging out in my mentor's hotel room. We were just hanging out, celebrating what happened that night. William Murphy. And he was like, call dad and see if they want to come hang out. It was about 2 or 3 o'clock in the morning, so I was like, guys, we got Daddy to Nashville at the church. He's not coming to your room at 3 o'clock in the morning. So I text him, like, dad, hey, we're just hanging out a little bit. He immediately responded. It was like, me and your mom were on the way. I was like, are you okay? So they came, and my dad was too tired. He was a man of very few words, but if he spoke, it was either profound or he was gonna have you in the floor screaming, laughing. And so that night, he pulled out his greatest comedy show. I mean, he had us in the floor just crying, laughing. And I remember they were leaving at about 4:00 that morning, he was getting on the. On the elevator, and I said, hey, dad. He had three awards in his hand because I told him I would give him those awards. That's a long story. We'll have to revisit those. Because I did an independent project, and I talked him into being the executive executive producer.
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A
Really?
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B
And he was like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Until he figured out what it was. He was like, wait a minute. I had to pay for all of this. So he would always say, when Daddy gonna get his money back? When the executive producer get paid, he would always say that. And so I turn on Sunday, this is what I'll do. If I win any awards, you can have them all. And so he took that thing to heart. Yeah, he built a curio for all of the awards that he felt like I would win. And so that night, he was getting on the elevator, he had the awards and his hands. I was like, daddy, take out one. I want to take a picture. And so he took out one of my Stellar Awards. I snapped the photo, and that would be the last time I saw my dad on the Earth. Yes. The next morning, they got in a car, he had a heart attack in the car and went to be with Jesus. And so, of course, it was devastating. You know, like, this is unexpected. And I could always hear his voice ringing in my ear. So the Grammys would be seven days later, and I could hear him saying, daddy's not going to be with you in la, but I want you to go anyway. I want you to go anyway. And so now I realize that he was leaving with me the last lesson that he would leave. That sometimes your heart will be broken and you don't understand the season that you're in, but I want you to dig deep within yourself and do it anyway. And so I got up seven days after my dad went to be with the Lord and I won my first Grammy sitting there, they called my name, and I was like, there is no way these people are calling my name, you know? So I got up, and the first thing I said is, seven days ago, the greatest man who ever walked the face of this earth went to be with Jesus. And I would love for you guys to honor my father. And so the entire academy stood up and gave my dad a round of applause. So that lesson, I felt like I need to give this to as many people as I can. So if I got to do it in a form of a book or a devotional or a song, I want people to know that whatever you need is within you. You just gotta dig deep and do that thing anyway.
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A
Oh, girl, you gotta get my eyes wet. I'm like, oh, my gosh, Tasha, thank you for sure. That's an incredible story.
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B
Wow. Thank you.
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A
And I know a lot of people wouldn't have been able to get up seven days later after losing a parent.
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B
It was tough. It was tough. Everything about it is still foggy right now.
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A
Yeah.
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B
You know, because you're smothered in grief. At that time, it was unexpected. But I knew one thing that. That Daddy wanted me to be there.
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A
He did. Yes. Oh, that is beautiful. You are all over the place. You're doing music, you're touring. You just started your own church. That's so incredible. The purpose.
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B
The purpose place.
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A
Purpose place. Oh, my goodness. What started that and what inspired that? Because I know a lot of my Christian friends say that they have such a hard time finding a safe church home. I have friends that live in LA that are like, ministers and people that really are seeking that. They're like, we just cannot find a place. So what made you say, I want. Because I know you to do lead praise and worship at different places. And you. Actually, I used to go to Free Chapel. And what's the church here meantime? I just drew a blank. Louie Giglio.
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B
Passion.
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A
Passion. I love that live album that you did there. But. So you've gone to all these different churches. What made you say, honey, we need to start our own church? What was that?
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B
I didn't.
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A
She said, that was not me.
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B
So my dad was. I've been walking with pastors my entire life. My dad was a pastor. My husband tricked me. I tell everybody my husband tricked me because while we were dating, I asked him, are you a pastor? And he said adamantly, no. So I was like, are we good? I don't want nothing to do with this. And so we. About two years into our marriage, and here he comes, sitting up in the middle of the night, crying. I feel the call of God. God did not say that. Now you told me. Yeah, we got to stick with the program.
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A
I like the program we're on right now.
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B
So, yeah, he had. He had this calling, and I think it was obvious, you know, the entire time, because both of us just have a heart for Kingdom ministry and for people to fulfill purpose in the earth. So. And it's what we've done, even with our team members. We push people. I don't want you here working for me forever. I want you to do what God calls you to do if it's to start a business. Whatever it is, I want this to be a ground where it's like you're educating yourself, you're getting what you need, so you can do what God has called you to do. And so I think it's just always been in the both of us because he's the same way. So my husband's actually the senior pastor, and I'm just, you know, I'm just there, I'm a co pastor, but. Yeah, buddy. But we were about two or three years into our marriage and he was, was like, you know, God has called me, Tasha, and I know that you also have that calling on you. So first of all, you need to stop being rebellious. But I felt like, you know, what does God need with another church? So we have to be very, very sure about the vision, because it's just not a place where I want us to come sing some pretty songs. People have, you know, experience, give you chills and all that kind of stuff, but you leave and you're not changed or transformed, you know, and so that was. We went to work just praying. And at the time, we were actually serving as worship pastors at a church in Greenville. Relentless Church with John and Abbott.
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A
Yes, yes.
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B
And during that time, we had conversations even with them, like, hey, we feel this calling on our lives, but where we're serving at right now, we feel like it's a great place for us to get training together because both of us had done ministry separate, but we never together in our marriage. And so that gave us an opportunity to work together, plan together, grow, grow together. And so we were there for two years. And then after that, you know, we just felt like, hey, it's time. And this is the interesting part where God always throws these monkey wrenches, you know, you got it. And he's like, no, here's a little twist. And so we were planning to do like this pop up, like, okay, we're gonna do a pop up in Spartanburg, South Carolina. We had never even really been to the city. We just KNEW it was 45 minutes outside of Greenville. And it's just where my husband's heart was. Like, hey, it's the city. It's Spartanburg, where I flew. Like, we were called to. And so we were gonna do like this pop up service, see if people show up. And I mean, as soon as we were about to do it, the pandemic hit. No. And so we were gonna do it in June, and pandemic hit in March, right? And we were sitting at the house, like, everybody thought at the time it was Gonna be two weeks. It was like two weeks gonna be gone. Everybody healed, and it wasn't. So a month. About three weeks later, I was downstairs, my husband was upstairs. Both of us came together and was like, hey, I feel like we need to do Bible studies right now. I feel like God is saying. He was like, God told me that too.
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A
I was like, oh, okay.
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B
So we're two church kids, and we have a plan. We know how to do this. You build, you start a Bible study. Pop ups. You know, we had a plan, but God was like, no, we want you to do this in the. In the pandemic. So how do you start a church in a pandemic? We started in April. It was a month after the pandemic started. So for two years, our church was virtual. We had never experienced in person church whatsoever. So even now, to this day, like, the mother of our church, she lives in Chicago. We have people that drive in from Atlanta, driving from Savannah, because they connected to us in the middle of a pandemic. And right now, they love their church so much that they're willing to get in their cars, to get on planes, to fly in. So I think that that's what makes our church so interesting, that in the middle of this moment that feels like chaos, God brought this group of people together and he's like, we're going to build a community. Community of people who will restore hope to the community. So that's our vision.
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A
I love that. I love that. It's funny because I just did a podcast with B. Simone and every. I don't know, I guess since I started dressing more ladylike, everybody's like, you. Every time I come to church, they're like, because I would wear, like, first lady.
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B
Oh.
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A
Literally, I'm like, first lady. I'm like, I am not gonna be a first lady. Like, don't ever say that. It's so funny. Like, you just started dressing so lady, like, all of a sudden. And I was like, you know, I just got older. And I was like, let me switch it up. Because, like. But I'm still a tomboy at heart. I love my sweats, hoodies. I'm like, pull over hoodie. Any day, Even if it's 90 degrees outside, I'll wear a hoodie. Like, I just love hoodies. But she said that, and I was like. I was like, no. So when you said you asked him that question, like, wait, I identify. Yeah, because that's. No.
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B
It's a beautiful experience, though, just to watch people grow. Like, we. There are some that Started with us four years ago. And now I look at them and where they are and how they've grown as, as a person, it's just like, wow, this is to see the transformation is what keeps us going. Like, if we were there and we show up and everybody steal a bunch of crazos, I'd be like, no, we ain't called it this because nobody ain't growing up. But to see every week that different people are just growing and, and fulfilling purpose, that's what keeps us going.
- [15:59]
A
I love that. Now, when your husband told you, I feel like God has called me to do this, was there any moment where you felt like, okay, I need to submit to this. Cuz we talk about submission when it comes to marriages, but even though you were having a little hesitance and reluctancy, was there any, any moment you like, you know what? Okay, God, let me just submit to this. If this is what his vision is, how does, how do you navigate submission in your marriage?
- [16:23]
B
Yeah, I trust the God in my husband. Like, if he says God says something, no matter how I feel like I'm submitted to it wholeheartedly. There's not been a time where I've said, okay, God, I trust what you said to him, that it's let me down, you know, And I know he's human and he's flawed and all of that, but I believe that he's assigned to lead our family. So when I said yes to him, I said yes to everybody that God instructs him for us. You know, that's. That's my dude. That's my baby.
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A
I love you.
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B
Hey, even if we going down, I'm gonna go down with you. But I felt like, yes. Yeah. Yeah. I felt like if, you know, God said this to him, then he's not gonna. Number one. He's not gonna say God said something he didn't say. My husband ain't that kind of guy. He'd be like, I feel like, I think. But when he says God says, I knowheartedly.
- [17:13]
A
Yeah, yeah, I love that. I love that. So you all have a blended family, you recently adopted, and you've been very open about your fertility journey. I recently went to my gynecologist and got all my labs done, blood work, testing and everything. And she said, you know, it's too late to freeze your eggs. And it was like a gut punch. I was like, ah. And I had this friend, and I used to get so frustrated with her because every time we would talk, it would come up, have you frozen your Eggs. Did you freeze your eggs yet? I'm like, get out of my uterus, girl. Leave me alone. You know? And I've been so. My career took off very late in life, so the mo. The time that I should have been.
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B
Beautiful career.
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A
Thank you.
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B
You are such an inspiration.
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A
Thank you so. And I want to be that people, because a lot of times we feel like it's too late to get started or to get going. I hope that I'm a. A source of inspiration for people who are still searching even later on in their life. It's never too late. That's how I feel. But in this moment, when she told me that, I was like, oh, my gosh. And she said, yeah. She's like, I don't even want you to go through ivf because if they go in and they pull the eggs that you do have, say only two of them are, like, good, and what if you lose them? And then she's like, you'd be more. She said, your probability to have a child is better to do it naturally than to go through all that. And I would like to know, because a lot of people leave out. They're like, oh, yeah, I froze my eggs. But they leave out all the wear and tear and how emotional that journey was. Can you talk about that a little bit?
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B
Yeah, I think. And I don't really. I don't want to over spiritualize everything, but I think everybody's journey is different.
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A
Yeah.
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B
You know, I feel like it's for me. So our experience is that we went through IVF and we talked a little bit before, and it's something. We actually ended up with three embryos, one that was implanted, and we ended up losing that baby. And that was literally one of the hardest things I'd ever gone through. And for me, just super transparent. You know, we can sing about the God of peace, the God of joy, the God of life, we can preach about it. But when you have to walk that thing out and live it out, that's when it's the true test of your faith. Yes. And for me, I needed that season to show me that there were areas that have been lying dormant of a lack of faith inside of me, because I immediately started questioning God. Like, do I believe what I've been singing about? Do I believe what I've been preaching about? Because you didn't come through with what you said.
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A
Come on.
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B
You know, and he had to remind me that, Tasha, you heard my will, but you didn't stick around to hear my way.
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A
You did it your way about the run.
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B
And so he started just showing me through timelines that, hey, I. I showed you. Yes, you're gonna have a beautiful baby boy. He gonna look just like you, act just like you. But I never once said that it would be the traditional way. You went about trying to feel God, fulfill God's will, your way, and that never works, you know, and so we had to go back now and say, well, what is your way? What was your way? We know your will, and that excites us. You know, sometimes the will excites you. You gonna have a mansion. You're gonna be a millionaire. But the process of it is the part that's grueling, you know? And so for me, yes, go on the shout, Ashana.
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A
Go on the shout, girl.
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B
We shout right here, you know, And I believe that so many of us, we hear. You could hear the prophecy. Even when we're younger people speaking over your life. I remember my mom would say, I see your name in lights. You know, we love that process for his way.
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A
Yes.
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B
His way is not always comfortable, and sometimes it's foggy and you can't see it. And so for us, God's way. I remember my husband came to me probably about five or six months after we lost the baby, and I had gone through just. Oh, it was very challenging. It was a dark space for me. And I literally had to record an album in the middle of that. So I remember going to Nashville three days after we found out we lost the baby, and I was like, I'm not going to no rehearsals if this gonna be. If you want me to do this, you gonna make this happen. So, you know, just, you know, we can get. Sometimes, like, you died. You totally know I'm upset. So you. You do your will, your way. So I went, and I was like, I'm not gonna go to rehearsal. I'm not gonna do anything. But I ended up going to one of the rehearsals, and they were doing a song that's on that album. It says, you're gonna get the glory out of this. It was a song that I wrote before ever really getting into this, losing the baby. It was during the ivf. I know you're going to get the glory out of this. And they started singing that song, and literally everything I was feeling, the walls came down. It started to break. And my team didn't know what we were going through, but they felt us. So they immediately just started praying for my husband and I. And I remember after going through that recording, if you go back now, the name of the album is. Is royalty. So going into it, I'm thinking I'm singing about, we're the royal priesthood and I'm a king's kid. I'm all excited. Gowns on the photo shoot. And God was like, no, no, no. I'm gonna show you what royalty really is and what it really means to be. To be my child. And so through that season, I had to really live out. There's a song on that album called you never gave up. Like, it felt like the walls were closing it.
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A
Yeah.
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B
I'm writing all of these songs before that season, not knowing that these songs were gonna usher me through that season. You know, I'm thinking I'm writing for everybody. Anybody going through depression, anybody going through anxiety. But it was really, really for me. And so when we got back home, my husband was like, baby, what do you think about adoption?
- [22:47]
A
Yeah. Wow.
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B
And I didn't hear just my husband. I heard him speaking to me this. This guy's way.
- [22:54]
A
Wow.
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B
You know, and so we went through that process, and it was miraculous. So my answer would be, everybody's journey is different.
- [23:01]
A
Yeah.
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B
And you can, you know, I could sit here and say, do it my way, or, you know, your friends can say, do it their way, but ultimately I would say, do it God's way. And you'll know when it's his way, because it feels right, you know, it feels like, man, this is me.
- [23:17]
A
Yeah, exactly. And it's funny you say that because when you said your faith was truly tested. I find myself now being in a position when she told me, it's too late for all that now. It's like, okay, you really got to activate this faith that you in a different position. Because I've had faith in my career, I've had faith in how to. For God to lead relationships and to guide me through life. But this is something totally different, you know, and the flame.
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B
So have faith for the things you can't see.
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A
Yes.
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B
Like, I can see that this relationship ain't right. So I can see. Let me go and get out of this, you know, I can see where my career is going, but I can't see. See where this baby.
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A
Yes.
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B
That's a different kind of thing.
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A
It's different. Yeah. So I. I find myself sitting in just quiet spaces, praying and talking to God to, like, just lead me through this. Don't let it, like, take. Because sometimes it can overtake your mind. I know for, like, when I turned 35, everything was just like going up to my lightning speed career. And I'M just like. And then you get to, like, 40, and like, how. Wait, I'm here already. And then it's like, oh, yeah, it's too late. And you're like, wait, what? But I know the God I serve.
- [24:20]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [24:21]
A
It's never. So I did later's podcast, Dear Future Wifey, and he had asked about that, and I was like, I feel like terrace. Isn't it everything? Love him. I was like, you know, bro, I feel like I'm in a space now where if it's meant to be, God will allow it to happen the way he wants it to happen in his will, not my way. Because I know. I mean, I'm like, all right, we gonna figure this thing out. But definitely, faith is super activated right now. That's awesome. I love it.
- [24:50]
B
So, Asher.
- [24:51]
A
Yes.
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B
I gotta talk about my babies. All of them. You know what? So we mentioned the blended family.
- [25:00]
A
Yes.
- [25:01]
B
And for me, it was such a growing up experience, because you're thinking, I'm gonna go in. And this is the role I play. This is the parent that I am. I'm the disciplinary. This is what I bring to the table. And it was so much different. My children have taught me so much about life, so much about myself. I've had to grow up to become the mother or stepmom that they need, you know what I'm saying? Just to fill in those gaps and to be able to do it with their mom and with my husband. That's awesome. And it wasn't always that way. You have to grow into that. I will never forget our two youngest before Asher. Their mom called me one day, and she was like, I was just watching this podcast with Jada Pinkett Smith and Will Smith's oldest son's mom, and she was like. She said something that literally just shook me to the core, that I love you the way that I love you, because I saw the way that you love my children. And she told me, she said, tasha, I can't help but love you when I see the way that you love my babies. And from that moment, all of the. Anything that was a source of tension, we go into it looking like, hey, this is about these kids.
- [26:14]
A
Yeah.
- [26:14]
B
And so we put ourselves to the side, and it has just been such a beautiful experience.
- [26:18]
A
I love that.
- [26:19]
B
So My oldest is 21.
- [26:22]
A
Okay.
- [26:23]
B
22. Yes, 22. Now she is. She just graduated Fayetteville State. Okay.
- [26:29]
A
Yes.
- [26:29]
B
She's working in Charlotte. She got a job and everything. Yeah. So our middle son, he is at North Carolina A and T. So He's a freshman there now. And we have Symphony, who is our 13 year old.
- [26:45]
A
Okay.
- [26:45]
B
So that's the one to try you.
- [26:46]
A
Yeah, that's that age.
- [26:48]
B
And then we got Asher, who really tries you. Like, it's three year old. Like, what is wrong with these teenagers?
- [26:53]
A
No, my nephew is three. And I'm like, they're like adults. Yeah, but you're a child. They're, like, so grown.
- [27:02]
B
I'm like, yeah. People warn you about two, but they don't really warn you about that. Three is different. Yeah. Because they can talk now and talk back.
- [27:10]
A
Oh, yeah.
- [27:10]
B
What do you want? Where's my little baby? I ask him that all the time. Where's my little tiny baby? He's like a big boy.
- [27:17]
A
Yep, that's right.
- [27:18]
B
Yes. So Asher is our baby.
- [27:21]
A
I love yalls photo shoots that you all did Sunday.
- [27:24]
B
Sunday shoots with Asher. Ooh. That's a time. He's a drummer. So Asher plays a drum. And it wasn't forced on him. Like, Asher picked up drumsticks probably at about three months old.
- [27:34]
A
Wow.
- [27:35]
B
And I posted a video the other day of him, like, playing. Playing people was like, oh, this. This used to be like you, but now it's a real thing. He can really play.
- [27:43]
A
That's incredible. All right. So is he gonna be playing for the church?
- [27:47]
B
You know, we try to Sunday. Cause he stares at our drummer the entire service. I mean, he's locked in, studying him.
- [27:53]
A
Yeah.
- [27:54]
B
So while he was staring at him. Because Asher wants us to carry him so he can see the drums. He can't see what people standing up. But he's £50. Like, I can't hold you the whole service. So I stood him up on the stage, and I was there. He was like, no, not big enough. Like, he knows. He comprehends that I'm just not big enough yet.
- [28:11]
A
But one day, I'm gonna be over there. That is so cute. I love that. That is beautiful. And I love that your husband's ex was able to, like. Because a lot of people are not that blessed to have somebody mature enough to say, I love the way you love my children. So I love you for that. And to be able to get along, you know, because it doesn't have to be. People move on. Life goes on. But we can all get along.
- [28:38]
B
Yeah. And I see the comments. Y'all like, this. Something like that. And they're like, that's y'all. They'll never do it. And I think you have to. You have to grow to that place where I will deny myself for the sake of peace, for these children.
- [28:52]
A
Absolutely.
- [28:52]
B
You know, and whatever that means, because they're, you know, she. She trifling. He trifling. It's never going to happen. You know, that part you have to leave into a place of.
- [29:00]
A
Of prayer.
- [29:01]
B
But growing up, the maturing, the putting the past behind us, but the only person you can really work on is yourself. And you got to find out, where have I been? The problem.
- [29:09]
A
Yeah.
- [29:10]
B
You know, you got to really be honest with yourself, because we got to be honest, y'all.
- [29:13]
A
Yeah.
- [29:14]
B
It ain't always everybody. It's not.
- [29:16]
A
No, it is not. That is real. That is real. You have been very vocal, even through your music, about depression and mental health. Where do you stand now and how important? Because I know now everybody's talking about it. Yeah, but you've actually spoken a lot of times Christians don't speak about it, so I love that when you sing about the state of depression. You on one of Maverick City's albums, you took a moment, you talked about your cousin staying with you and how she loved you. Like, she said, tasha, I can't do this no more. And you felt rejected, but God was like, no, like, this is. You gotta work on this. What. What steps did you take to get to where you are now? Because, Natasha, I see now, like, you look like you've done the work.
- [30:02]
B
You know what? And. And it's. I am an advocate for therapy. All of us need to get a therapist, you know, and even if it's not every single day or every single week or even if it's in seasons, there are some seasons where I'm like, okay, I feel myself getting a little heavy. Maybe I'm trying to carry too. Too much. Let me get on the phone. Let me call, you know, So I feel like all of us need a space where we can release, you know, that the tensions of life, just life in general, to talk these things out. I believe there's a story in scripture that talks about two sisters, Mary and Martha. And Jesus stops by. The Bible says, Martha's house. I don't think we often put enough focus on that. Jesus stops by Martha's house, and when he enters the house, Martha goes back to working and cooking and preparing for him. But Mary sits at his feet and she worships. I think a lot of times what we find in the Christian arena in the Kingdom is that we can work so much that we fail to take care of ourselves mentally. I believe that what Mary was doing was getting a mental break, a space in the presence of God, where I'm seeing for myself. I'm seeing about myself instead. Martha was like, a lot of us. No, I got to get this done. I got to get up and preach every week. I got to go to work every day. I got to make sure that I'm encouraging people. Like you were saying. I got to make sure I'm inspiring everybody.
- [31:28]
A
But who.
- [31:28]
B
Who is taking time to take care of you? And I feel like we can compare ourselves sometimes to those two characters in scripture. Am I going to be the one who's work, work, work, work, working and never sitting down to take care of myself and sitting at the feet? Even for some of us that work in church, you ain't got to be the one up singing every Sunday. Sit down and receive. You don't have to be the one up at the door ushering every week. Sit down and receive. Do something where you're filling yourself up again so that you have what it takes to go out and pour more. So I found that space for me, and it wasn't always me. I was the person who was always living in next. Like, I could be. There are times, like, even with that Grammy, I don't really remember it. And then it wasn't so much just grief. It was just because I was a workaholic. Like, I could be like, did y'all answer that email? You know, where are we going next.
- [32:16]
A
Week after this episode?
- [32:22]
B
We gotta get.
- [32:23]
A
Like, there's just so many things.
- [32:24]
B
Celebrate the now.
- [32:25]
A
Yeah, you know, Celebrate the now.
- [32:27]
B
What you find sometimes in scripture is when they would experience major success, that they would build an altar, they would take a moment and establish something so that when I'm facing something hard in life in the next five, 10 years, I can look back to 2004 and see what God did. And the same God that did it back then is going to do it again. So stop and build an altar. Celebrate those moments. And one of the things that my therapist would tell me to do, I still do to this day. And she. She told me, make those people who are closest to you, make them. Make you be present. And I was like, how do I do that? And she said, so for me, I have arthritis in my toes. I know my sneaker game tight, but it's because, you know, I have arthritis in both of my toes. I used to play basketball. I broke my toe. Whole long story. So I was like, if I gotta wear sneakers, I've got to be the best at it, right? So I started studying the culture, all of that. We own a sneaker Store all this kind of thing.
- [33:20]
A
Really? Yes.
- [33:21]
B
But it started from me having a broke toe with arthritis. You know, sometimes you gotta make lemonade out of the limit.
- [33:27]
A
Absolutely.
- [33:28]
B
And so she would say to me, she said, make them ask you questions like, how do your toes feel right now? Do you have a headache right now? They make. They make me be present in the moment. My husband will stop sometimes, and he'll grab my shoulders and he'll say, do you have a headache right now? You know, what does this moment feel like? You were just on Crystal's podcast. How do you feel? You know, so those just minor little things to make me be present. I'm still work. I still work a lot. But now I think I've matured to the place where take care of Tasha first and all of these things. You know, sometimes success can be fleeting. It can be here today, gone tomorrow. But have you taken care of yourself? Am I. Am I strong enough mentally that if it's gone tomorrow, that it won't break me down, that I won't die in that season?
- [34:13]
A
Exactly.
- [34:14]
B
So that's just where I am now.
- [34:16]
A
I love that you just helped me, because I know my team back there, like, thank you for saying that. Yeah. I know.
- [34:22]
B
Y'all look, I would be sitting in award show, sitting out, even. Where we going tomorrow?
- [34:30]
A
We, like.
- [34:32]
B
Seriously.
- [34:33]
A
Yeah. That is me. I'm always like, I don't know. I think also because I had the example of, like, a Tyler Perry who, like, was there with us grinding. Every time I looked at. When I was tired, I saw him behind that monitor. Like, I never felt like I was in it alone as the person who was pushing, you know, the whole thing, and he was driving it. But we were the ones helping me working together. So I think a part of it is, like, I never want anybody to feel like we doing all this, and she just shows up.
- [35:03]
B
Yeah.
- [35:04]
A
You know what I'm saying? But there is a part of where you gotta, like, let people do what they are, what they do, you know, because you also.
- [35:11]
B
You're building the culture.
- [35:12]
A
Yeah.
- [35:12]
B
So they see you doing it, and they're like, this is how it. This is. I have to be this way in order to be successful.
- [35:17]
A
Yes.
- [35:19]
B
My husband says this thing that rest is trust. Pastor Darius is also our pastor. I don't know if you know that. So Pastor Darius is our pastor. Yeah. He teaches us that, you know, trust God with. With one day out of your seven, because God will allow you to do more with six days than the average person can do with seven.
- [35:37]
A
That is so true.
- [35:38]
B
You trust him with your rest. So rest is trust.
- [35:40]
A
I'm trying to get that Saturday off so I can rest.
- [35:42]
B
Oh, Saturday is. Make it your Sabbath.
- [35:45]
A
Yes. I'm trying to get it this week because I'm tired, but thank you for. For that. Seriously. I needed that. Because it is hard to find the moment to just decompress and breathe. Yeah, yeah. It's important. Thank you. I tell everybody to make sure you rest. And I'm like, but you ain't resting, girl. Sit down somewhere.
- [36:09]
B
Yeah. Rest is trust.
- [36:10]
A
It is. I like that. I think that's gonna be my takeaway for this. I like that. I gotta relax. That rest is trust. You have been an incredible merger between gospel and hip hop. I love the songs. You know, you work with Nicki Minaj, and that was like. Even when I saw. I was like, that's fire. And I love. I was like, I love that she's taking these risks. What made you say, you know what? Like, these are people I want to work with, and I'm gonna do it no matter what, because, you know, you'll get backlash for certain things. But what made you say, I'm gonna do it anyway?
- [36:42]
B
I'm gonna do it anyway? And I love this conversation. I think it's great because I've been hearing you talk a lot about the season that you're in and how people. The comments about you representing Christ and representing the kingdom. You know, each of us, we are the Bible, talks about walking out your own soul salvation. You know, how is God instructing you to represent him in the earth? And it may not be the way, you know, such and such was called to do it, or those who went before me were called to do it. Like, I love Yolanda. Yolanda goes on different platforms that you don't see a lot of gospel artists on, but even her walk is different than mine, you know? And so there are some areas where you have these people where you can. You can say, okay, that person mentors me. My. My life a little bit looks like theirs. But then there are some doors that God opens for you that's just for you.
- [37:31]
A
Yes.
- [37:31]
B
It's like, hey, I want you to represent me this way. And that's what that has been for me. And you see a lot of different collaborations now. Like, Kirk does a lot of collaborations. Chandler has done collaborations. But in the season where I. I did this song with Nikki, I'm getting ready on my album, and it just wasn't very, very popular. You know, we had done. I had done A song with Common before, but then you. You go to somebody like Nicki Minaj and people think she represents one thing. You don't really know these people. You know, a lot of times it's, it's, it's. It's career, it's the success. It's sometimes it's just character, you know, you thinking we not judging you based on Z.
- [38:14]
A
Thank you.
- [38:15]
B
It's the character that you put on. It's your job. And so I want. I got to know Nikki.
- [38:21]
A
Yes.
- [38:21]
B
And then knowing Nikki, Nikki has relationship with God and she cares that other people do too. Does it mean that she's with without flaw? No, but none of us are. You know what I'm saying? So who am I to say that? She called me and she said, you know, this want this. I want this album to be the first one where I put my relationship with God on display. Wow. And who am I to say, you can't do that?
- [38:44]
A
Right. Exactly.
- [38:45]
B
You know, and so after hearing God and praying about it, if God says yes, then I'm going to go with what he says. And, yeah, we got backlash. The comments were crazy. I sold out, you know, all this kind of stuff.
- [38:56]
A
Yeah, terrible.
- [38:57]
B
You know, but when you hear God say for you to do something, stick to it and do what he says. Because some of those same people, now, it's years later, have come back. They're in my DM saying, I judged you when that happened. But now I have a greater understanding.
- [39:11]
A
That's beautiful.
- [39:13]
B
Yeah. So there are people who have come to me and repented, you know, for what they did or what they said. And even if they don't, you know, I'm sure that this was God's will for me. Even the song. So we did another one on her last album and that. Even that moment. So we were in the studio, I went to LA to do that one in the studio with her. And we just had a moment where it was like, hey, we don't want to just leave it up to chance that people understand who we're talking about. So Nikki said to me, I want you to say the name Jesus.
- [39:42]
A
I know that's right.
- [39:42]
B
You know what I'm saying? So a lot of people may think this is. No, it's going both ways and there's a relationship there. And it doesn't matter how people may judge me or what they think about it, because I know for sure that this is something that God has called me to do. So you have to just stand firm on that.
- [39:59]
A
Now, in the midst of like, the backlash, how did you handle that? Because for me, and you've heard me be vocal about it, there's times when, like, I ain't got to say nothing else. Like, I'm good. Like, how do you handle it in the middle of. Because hindsight, you're like, I said yes to what God told me to do, and people had something to say. But, like, what do you feel in those moments?
- [40:19]
B
Yeah. I mean, it's painful.
- [40:21]
A
Yeah.
- [40:21]
B
You know, a lot of. And we're human. So you can get a million comments that are like, go, girl. You did it. You killing me. And it's one.
- [40:28]
A
Yeah. You know, it's like.
- [40:33]
B
Why can't you just be, like, everybody over here? You know, I've learned that blocking is a ministry, baby. I love the block before I respond, I'm gonna give you grace. It has blocked you. You know, there have been seasons where I've responded, but even during that time, I may have responded. Like, once I think I posted something, and then after that, I just didn't feel right. I felt like, okay, let me just let this breathe. And whatever happens, happens. Because I know that ultimately, vengeance is the Lord's.
- [41:00]
A
It is.
- [41:00]
B
You know, and that it comes, it requires a lot. Like, right now, my husband and I have been studying Proverbs, just talking about wisdom. It's crazy, man.
- [41:10]
A
We did a wild child change. That's that book of proverbs, the first.
- [41:14]
B
Three chapters of Proverbs, man. It'll bless you. So right now, I think, what? Being able to not respond requires wisdom.
- [41:22]
A
That's so true.
- [41:23]
B
It requires you to say, you know, this ain't about me anyway. You know, it's. It's ultimately, maybe the person who's commenting, maybe they don't have a great understanding. Maybe they don't have a revelation of what you're called to be.
- [41:34]
A
That's true.
- [41:35]
B
And I. I can't. I can't prove this to everybody in the world. You'll be. You'll be commenting all day. You respond to that. When there's somebody else gonna come back, and before you know it, you. You're overwhelmed in this space, and it's like, I'm not even gonna take myself there. Ultimately, I know that I'm doing the will of God for my life, and that's all that matters.
- [41:55]
A
That's all. I love that because some days I have time, some days I have time. And some people, like, my friends are like, crystal, who's around? You tell them to take your phone, give your phone to somebody. I'm like, yes.
- [42:08]
B
Like, my God, kids will call me and say, now we know you not gonna respond. Do you release us to respond just a little bit? Don't give them too much. Yeah. That is so funny.
- [42:19]
A
Because my fans, when I tell you, I realize I don't have the same thing because they ride for me so hard. So things I really want to say.
- [42:27]
B
Yeah, I love y'all. Could y'all let them know? Kudos.
- [42:29]
A
Yeah, it was good. I could just sit back because I'm like, yes, that's exactly what I wanted.
- [42:33]
B
To say, but I can't say yes.
- [42:36]
A
But I love the black button. It's my favorite.
- [42:38]
B
Yeah.
- [42:39]
A
It's my absolute favorite.
- [42:40]
B
It's a blessing.
- [42:41]
A
It is. It really is. It is. When we talk about blessings there, do you find that there's a burden and a blessing that comes with being in the ministry? Because sometimes people feel that there's a weight that comes along with carrying this.
- [42:54]
B
Yes.
- [42:54]
A
It's called. You're literally carrying across. Yeah.
- [42:58]
B
Yeah. And I think it's a day, every day. It's an intentional choice. Like, I choose to carry the weight that comes with it. One of my good friends, his name is Sy Younger, and he was talking to us the other week, and he said, we love to talk about the cross that Jesus carried, but I think we live in a generation now of Christians who are crossless Christians where we don't want to carry our cross. And I was like, you know, because the cost is heavy.
- [43:30]
A
It is.
- [43:32]
B
So there is a burden that comes with representing Christ, especially outside of the four walls of the church. Like, I applaud. I applaud people like you who know, I'm not standing on a stage preaching. I'm not, you know, I'm not Sarah, I'm not Priscilla Shire, but I am Crystal, and I'm doing it now. I got to it through TV and film.
- [43:53]
A
That is.
- [43:54]
B
It's a weight.
- [43:54]
A
Yeah, it is.
- [43:55]
B
You know, to. To represent him in that way, but to see the benefits of it. To see so many people now who say, maybe I'm not like Tasha and I'm not like Sarah, but I see myself in Crystal, that I have all of these gifts that may not be used so much in the church, but they're used outside of the four walls of the church. And many times that's. That's where you would find Jesus.
- [44:18]
A
Yeah. Cuz we are in church. Yeah.
- [44:19]
B
Like, he was. He was walking up the street like he was hosting conferences. And so that. That's the kind of God that we Serve that. Hey, I do want you to forsake, not to assemble together at your weekly gatherings, but I want you to take that out now and represent me. And that's not always going to be easy. There's the weight that comes with that. But I. I am. I am honored to carry it. You know, if he could carry his cross and die for us, do all the things that he did, certainly I can carry the weight of. Of my little cross.
- [44:55]
A
Absolutely. I love that. Tasha.
- [44:57]
B
Kudos to you, y'all. You killing it, girl. You represent the kingdom well. I don't care what nobody says. You represent very well.
- [45:03]
A
Thank you. Thank you so much. Cuz I do doubt that sometime, like God am I doing. And if even in this season, I found myself searching and talking to him more, guide me in the way that you want me to represent you. Like, because I think it was. It may have been Sarah or some. Something happened during Woman Evolved, where someone said, we are living in a time where the people that are unlikely will be the ones that are raising up the kingdom and spreading the word. And there's a few people that you wouldn't even expect. Like, wait, that's who he's using? And I was. I made a comment about how I noticed, like, a lot of, like, singers and different people in the entertainment industry are publicly turning life into Christ and bringing the millions of followers that God brought to them. But it was for his glory. In the end.
- [45:48]
B
That's one of the things that happened. Even with the songs with Nikki, there were so many people who started following me or bought my album, who. They would say to me, I didn't believe in God before I heard this song or this is the first gospel album I've ever purchased. That alone, I'm like, hey, you know, people. And I get the testimonies, too, of, well, about our girls and what about our girls being exposed to this and exposed to that. I believe that God will cover our children. They will cover those who. Who we are called to, who are in our churches and our homes, but we also have to reach those who are not.
- [46:22]
A
Yes.
- [46:22]
B
You know, how else do we do it besides collaborating with people who represent him outside of the four walls? So, you know, I. I know that's what I'm called to. I know that's a part of. So thank you again for that.
- [46:33]
A
Yeah, thank you. I appreciate that. Is there anything that you can let us know that you're working on? What's coming up? I want to know.
- [46:42]
B
We are on the Good News tour.
- [46:44]
A
I'm excited about that I'm out there with.
- [46:47]
B
I call them my kids. I'm Auntie Tasha now. So, yeah, we're with Maverick City, and so we got Todd, Ty Galbraith, Naomi, Rage, Taylor. Tim Godfrey is gonna be with us. So it's. It's gonna be incredible. I'm looking forward to it. This tours always stretch you, so I'm looking forward to how I'm gonna grow as a person. Just out being out in different cities every night. Yeah, I don't know if people know that side of it.
- [47:23]
A
Yeah.
- [47:23]
B
I'm also growing every night. Having these encounters and having this experience in worship and even having the conversations with different artists backstage and living with them for all of these months. We grow together and it sharpens us. So I'm looking forward to that.
- [47:37]
A
I'm excited.
- [47:37]
B
You gotta concentrate. You know, I'm there.
- [47:40]
A
I can't wait. I went to the last Kingdom tour they did here in Atlanta, and I had to film the next day. I didn't have a voice, baby. I was at the. I was like, okay, you gotta calm, Dad. I kept saying, I have to wait. Tomorrow, I have to wait. I was like, God will give me my voice.
- [47:58]
B
He'll give me something. If I got a whisper, I'll praise tonight.
- [48:02]
A
We do have the tour.
- [48:04]
B
I'm excited about that. And the books, the devotional, and do it anyway.
- [48:09]
A
I put it.
- [48:10]
B
I put my life in that. So it's. It's memoirs and stories.
- [48:14]
A
Amazing.
- [48:14]
B
Even my childhood of going back, watching how it was just a theme in our house to get up and do it anyway. Even though you. Even if you don't feel like it. So I believe it's going to be an encouragement to some many people I love.
- [48:28]
A
I'm looking at the titles that you have. Discover It, Pursue It, Read it, Hide it. That's a good one. Yes. Question. It created. I'm a creator, so I love that. Oh, wow.
- [48:41]
B
So.
- [48:41]
A
So it's a 60. This is amazing.
- [48:44]
B
Faith.
- [48:46]
A
Yep. I cannot wait to dive into this.
- [48:48]
B
Thank you.
- [48:48]
A
Seriously, I love starting my day with devotionals. I love starting with meditation and just really being still. So I'm going to add this to my morning routine. I cannot wait. No, thank you. Seriously, I love you and I'm so glad I got to share space with you. This has been incredible.
- [49:04]
B
Thank you.
- [49:05]
A
Thank you so much.
- [49:06]
B
I love you.
- [49:07]
A
And keep rocking it. Keep rocking at her.
- [49:09]
B
Serious. You too. Them curls is popping.
- [49:11]
A
Thank you. Thank you so much, guys. I have to admit, Tasha Cobbs Leonard left me with so much to think about and pray about so much that it was actually kind of challenging to come up with a gym for the day. But if I had one takeaway, it would be that rest is trust. Guys. I'm such a workhorse. I love having my hands in everything because I have so many things going on, but sometimes I just need to be still. So that is my takeaway and my gym for this week. Today's show was nothing short of amazing, and I can't thank you guys enough for watching. You can follow me on all social media platforms at lovechristalrenee, and you can also follow the show at keepitpositivesweetie. If you want to write into our Positive Outcomes listener letter, you can send us an email@keepitpositivesweetiemail.com in the meantime, in between time, y'all already know what to do. Keep it positive, sweetie. I'll see you guys next time.