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- [00:10]
A
Hi, and welcome to this episode of Keep It Positive, Sweetie. I'm Krystal Renee Hayslett, and today we are talking Father's Day with one of my favorite people, the Kirk Franklin.
- [00:21]
B
Yep. Don't know if I'm your favorite. One of your favorite people, because you would have had something established for me to sit comfortably. We know there's a height challenge that I exist in, and these little fancy new modern couches, you know, they take away your masculinity. So I don't know how I feel about being here, but I'm gonna help him get this done so I can go and sit on a regular couch the way regular people sit. First question. Let's go. Let's go. Wrap this up. Let's go.
- [00:54]
A
Right, right, right.
- [00:58]
B
The strike is over. I've got things to do. Let's go.
- [01:00]
A
Hello. Me too. I gotta study. Thank you, Lord.
- [01:03]
B
What's up, Queen Silly?
- [01:04]
A
How you doing, sir?
- [01:05]
B
Doing good, Queen.
- [01:06]
A
Good. Thank you so much for coming.
- [01:07]
B
Thank you.
- [01:08]
A
I like to start every episode with a song or a quote, and the song that comes to mind with you sitting on my couch is a song that has gotten me through so much and that is holding me down.
- [01:18]
B
Wow.
- [01:18]
A
Yes. And we're gonna talk about that in this episode. I need you to know.
- [01:23]
B
Jeez.
- [01:24]
A
What you have done with just your voice, your lyrics, your music, but not my voice.
- [01:31]
B
Literally.
- [01:31]
A
Ladies and gentlemen, I like your. When you do the talking, singing thing.
- [01:35]
B
Yeah, well, yeah. Okay. I just want.
- [01:36]
A
It works. Only you can do that. My favorite.
- [01:41]
B
I'm finding that out. I'm finding that out.
- [01:44]
A
But for those of you who don't know, Kirk is a songwriter, producer, choir director, gospel singer, best known for leading urban contemporary, gospel, and Christian RB ensembles such as the Family, God's Property, One Nation Crew, among others. You have won 19 Grammy Awards.
- [02:03]
B
Well, I've only won about two or three. What happens is, the other ones, I go to the Grammys, and when people go to the bathroom I, like, I grab their Grammys, and I got a homeboy that's still locked down in jail, and he can take, like, a name plate, and he put my name on the front. So I just wanted to be honest.
- [02:23]
A
So the other 17 were actually somebody else's.
- [02:26]
B
Yeah. So just go ahead, but please continue.
- [02:28]
A
Yes. And you are one of the inaugural inductees of the Black Music and Entertainment Walk of Fame.
- [02:35]
B
Yeah.
- [02:36]
A
That's huge.
- [02:36]
B
No, no, I'm grateful for that.
- [02:37]
A
Amazing. Amazing. Oh, my gosh. So I want to tell the viewers the first time that I was Introduced to you. This is in the 90s. I had to be probably 10, 11ish when I was first introduced to you. And I told you I shared this with your wife. I said, kirk doesn't understand that when he came on the scene. I was raised Methodist. Methodist. No shade to any Methodist. No, no. You know what I'm saying? But it's not.
- [03:10]
B
You just didn't clap. You didn't clap.
- [03:12]
A
We did not do.
- [03:13]
B
Right. Didn't clap.
- [03:14]
A
We didn't clap. But we did transition, where we actually sang some of your songs in my church, like, because I think they realized we gotta switch some things up. We can't just keep singing hymnals all now.
- [03:24]
B
Was it amc?
- [03:25]
A
I was United Methodist.
- [03:27]
B
Okay.
- [03:27]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [03:28]
B
Oh, oh. So you were more of the white side?
- [03:32]
A
Catholic. Yeah, almost like. Almost Catholic. Because we would recite a lot during service. And you helped me find my own relationship with God because I always felt like this can't be it. You know, it didn't excite me. There was nothing where I was like, I really just want to be on fire for God until you came along and it was relatable. And I was like, okay, I can talk to God how I talk. I don't have to. I believe in God, the Father Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, and in Jesus Christ has to do, you know, so that. Thank you. Seriously. And then 2019, I met you the first time. I'm not sure if you remember this, but it was the grand opening of Tyler Perry Studios, the new studio. And we had the gospel brunch that Sunday after the grand opening.
- [04:14]
B
Yes.
- [04:15]
A
And there was lines going everywhere for food, and you had a plate of shrimp and grits. And I said, well, where'd you go? Where'd you get them? Shipping grits. And he was like, over there. But the line is long. Here, take mine.
- [04:25]
B
Wow.
- [04:26]
A
Yes. And I was like, no, no, no. He was like, take it, girl. If somebody give you their food, take it.
- [04:30]
B
Wow.
- [04:31]
A
And I took it. And I was like, wow, that's a nice person. Yeah. So that was my first interaction with you in real life. And then.
- [04:38]
B
Did you eat?
- [04:38]
A
I did. I tore them up. They were good. I'm sorry you didn't get any.
- [04:41]
B
No, no, no, it's okay. It's okay. It's okay. First dad and now the couch. So, I mean, we're just kind of moving in the same direction.
- [04:47]
A
Yeah.
- [04:48]
B
It's a. Yeah. First question. Let's go. Let's go.
- [04:55]
A
Oh, my goodness.
- [04:56]
B
But it's all about this. This is the mood it's so arrogant.
- [05:00]
A
Yes. Let's wrap this up. But on a more serious note, I opened up about when I was a teenager, I had suicidal thoughts, and I would sit in my floor of my bedroom and play Hold Me now over and over and over again. And it was as if God literally was, like, holding me.
- [05:21]
B
Wow.
- [05:22]
A
And to this day, I tried to cry. Dang. We see how we went from this to this that quick. Because how real it is to this day, when I hear that song, I cry. And I was talking to a friend of mine, Marquis, and I actually do Choral Chronicles where we sing and we play that song. And you would be like, if you went to my page and looked at the comments everybody love. They're like, oh, my God, that is my song. Then they went back and started playing. I'm sure your ratings and your spins went up after that, but. But no, seriously, you definitely helped me through a really tough time. And now I cry for a different reason. You know, we're going to bring this up. Okay.
- [06:12]
B
No, this is a beautiful moment. Let's stay right here. I'm good. You know, I can tell you that I have always lived in this dichotomy of, I knew I loved God, but I had a hard time believing that he loved me. So now that people are kind of more exposed to the backstory of who I am and my experience. Experiences with my father. I got you.
- [06:39]
A
Thank you.
- [06:39]
B
I'm closer to it.
- [06:43]
A
Thank you. Thank you.
- [06:47]
B
You know, I have lived with this space that a lot of things that have been written have not always been what I feel, but what I imagine. So it hasn't always been this confident truth that I've always worked from. So when. When. Even when I think about that song, I was like, oh, yeah, that's right. That's another one. That's another one that I was screaming out for help for. And people didn't even realize that I was screaming out for help. I was wondering, can you hold me now? Is because you're right. That's not. That's a very abnormal conversation for someone to have in a gospel song.
- [07:27]
A
Yes, yes.
- [07:28]
B
But. But. But. But that's been the space that I've lived in, always wanting, always searching for what I did not have in the physical world that I lived in. And so I was trying to. Oh, is that Scott? You know, it's because when you talk about anxiety and depression, I've lived in that space my whole life.
- [07:45]
A
Yeah.
- [07:46]
B
And it is very humbling to know that a song that, for me, was just a Moment of, ugh, was speaking to a little girl somewhere that I didn't even know. And so I think that's the big, beautiful, chaotic, painful journey of life.
- [08:15]
A
It is. Yeah.
- [08:16]
B
It's the dichotomy. It's the duality of reality.
- [08:20]
A
It is.
- [08:22]
B
I'm extremely humbled and extremely grateful to know that what wasn't mine became yours.
- [08:30]
A
Yeah.
- [08:31]
B
So thank you.
- [08:32]
A
Thank you for that.
- [08:33]
B
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
- [08:38]
A
Ooh. This year, you dropped a documentary about finding out that your biological father was still alive. I watched it and I wept, like, uncontrollably. And when you posted it on your Instagram, I typed in the comments. I just want you to know that all the mess and everything that you felt you were going through ended up helping so many people. And it was so much beauty in that. And I want to talk about. Just when I watched it, I was just like, oh, my goodness. Like, how is this? We look at you as like, you're like everybody's uncle, everybody's brother, and people don't even know you. Like, you're that figure to them. How have you been able to navigate that? Like, even still, like. Cause you're on tour now. It's almost like your life just had to keep going. But how are you taking time to really deal with that?
- [09:29]
B
Sometimes? I don't know if you ever really do. You know, I think if we were honest, I think every human in some capacity is always running from something.
- [09:39]
A
Ooh.
- [09:41]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, I think that the biggest problem with American Christianity is we want American Christianity to be wrapped in this perfect bows, that it's got to look pretty. It's because the imagery that we portray is a lot of times the stained glass windows and people in their Sunday best and talking. Hey, brother. God bless you, sister.
- [10:03]
A
Right.
- [10:03]
B
Hallelujah. You know, tbn and, you know, you know, just everything is so perfect and life is messy.
- [10:10]
A
It is.
- [10:11]
B
Life is messy. Life is dirty. Life can get ugly. And you wonder, where's a God in the midst of all that chaos? And what I don't know doesn't cancel out what I do know. But I'm still not afraid to acknowledge there's a lot I don't know. So I may be running forever because somebody's like, well, no, there's got to be a blessing. No.
- [10:36]
A
Right? No.
- [10:37]
B
Scripture has a myriad of people. I remember in one of Paul's writings, and he's just making a list of all of these people that lived by faith but never lived to see the promise happen. So that's a reality. Look at Moses. Moses. Moses was used to part the Red Sea, but didn't make it into Canaan.
- [10:59]
A
Right. Isn't that crazy?
- [11:02]
B
It's like my neck, you know, it's like he didn't make it in. So, you know, that's the reality of what we live in. And so I am learning, though, to be okay with that. I'm learning to be okay that there will be some crosses I gotta carry, there'll be some limps that I'll have. And from those places have come for others some of the most beautifully painful songs that I see. Rich people, you know, like an. Imagine Me. I wasn't on. I went on the beach sipping a Mai Tai with flip flops on. I'm going to write Imagine Me.
- [11:38]
A
Right.
- [11:38]
B
You know, it's like, you know. You know, it's like life is ugly. Got a song. What? Here? Here you go. Yeah. So you know. Yeah.
- [11:47]
A
During those times, and I know this is still fresh for you, did you ever, like, question God? God, why? Why did it take so long to find this out?
- [11:56]
B
I questioned God all the time. I was questioning God before that.
- [12:00]
A
Really?
- [12:00]
B
I questioned God all the time. When you see a family on the. And hear the whole family died in a car wreck, or you know, you meet sweet people that die of cancer and then you see fools out here living a life and they live until they 7 and 8 is still being fools. I mean, yeah. Question God all the time. And God welcomes the conversation. He does, because the questions at least we talking about. And he's still talking. And he welcomes the conversation. And once again, I think that so much deconstruction of religious dogma that we've been programmed to believe has to happen for people to have a clear understanding that for most people of color, this fear of what we can't do and can't say to God is really birthed in a colonized version.
- [12:56]
A
Yes.
- [12:57]
B
Of what? Christianity was introduced to a displaced people to control them. And so all of that has to be deconstructed so we can. So it's because what we've got to understand so clearly is that Western Christianity and the teachings of Jesus Christ are not synonymous. They are not the same. Who Jesus is and what we a lot of times teach in Western Christianity is dogma and ideology that has nothing to do with the. The pure heart of Jesus Christ.
- [13:27]
A
Wow. I remember just recently while you were on this tour, a man was outside the venue.
- [13:33]
B
Oh, no, no, not this tour.
- [13:34]
A
What tour was that?
- [13:35]
B
That was four Years ago, somebody just. Somebody just resurrected it. Somebody just resurrected it.
- [13:40]
A
What? Okay, I thought that was happening in real time. Oh, my goodness.
- [13:43]
B
I wouldn't be able to talk to nobody like that. Now. It's like, man, this pandemic. I don't know you.
- [13:47]
A
Right. But you literally took time to, like, meet with this man after, and he ridiculed you just for how you dance and your lyrics. I'm like, people, like, they. We do have to deconstruct because everybody's gotten so, like, literal almost where they're, like, taking it.
- [14:05]
B
Yes.
- [14:05]
A
And thinking that they're God.
- [14:06]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then also, you know, it's. It's. It's. It's. It. It is an extension of the heart of a Pharisee. Right. You know, that. That. What I don't understand. I dismiss this. And so it is in the process of being able to engage with people, to. To get an understanding of why they maneuver and how they maneuver and to not demonize or to try to put scripture to things. That may not be my cup of tea, Kirk. Just may not be your cup of tea.
- [14:39]
A
Yeah. And that's okay.
- [14:40]
B
And that's okay. Sometimes I'm not my cup of tea. Some days I get on my nerves. Right. I mean, have you ever had days.
- [14:48]
A
Where you'd be like, girl, get it together. Yes.
- [14:51]
B
So if you have that with you, why would you not not understand that everybody's not going to process and connect with you in certain ways and still give them grace for God to keep doing the work in them?
- [15:04]
A
Yeah. That's good. I love that. Now that you know who your father is, how are you integrating that into your life? Like, how is that getting to. Have you guys spent any time together?
- [15:15]
B
Yeah. Yeah. But, you know, it is still the weirdest thing for me. And he's a great guy.
- [15:21]
A
Great guy. Seemed like a really, really nice guy.
- [15:23]
B
He's a great, great guy. I just. Just because you've been introduced to love. Don't know. Doesn't mean you know how to process it. When you see it, you know, it is good. Yeah. It's not automatic. And I think, once again, we've watched so much tv, we've watched so many movies, we've read so many romance novels that we want happy endings to.
- [15:48]
A
Yeah. That's been me, like, in every relationship. And I'm just like, one guy told me, he's like, crystal, it's not a fairy tale. Get that out of your head.
- [15:57]
B
But I'm the same way, though.
- [15:58]
A
Really ugly.
- [15:59]
B
I romanticize.
- [16:00]
A
Yes. Oh, my gosh. I'm the same way. Yeah. You know, often, because my biological mother passed when I was two. So you always. Yeah. So I feel like a part of me always wonders, like, what parts of me are like her, you know? And now that you know your dad, do you see any, like, oh, that's where I get that from. Or, oh, now things are starting to make a little more sense about, you.
- [16:28]
B
Know, I have not had to spend a whole lot of time. We've been able to have moments. And, yeah, there are things. But there are things that I know that probably for the both of us still need to grow.
- [16:46]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [16:47]
B
You know, you know, but, you know, you know, because he's headstrong.
- [16:51]
A
Is he?
- [16:51]
B
He's ambitious. He's. Oh, no, no, no.
- [16:54]
A
Like you.
- [16:55]
B
He is. I'm very much him. I'm very much him, you know, and so. But, you know, he's. He's a good man. He's a good man. He is. He's a. He's somebody that I could definitely look up to. Well, with the same height, but you know what I mean? You know, but, yeah, I think that more than anything, it's just me. It's just the trauma. And then you also got to remember something very important. There was a man in my life that I believed to be my father. Well, no, not in my life. There was a man that I knew of.
- [17:29]
A
Yes.
- [17:29]
B
That I believed to be my father all of my life. And I hated this man all of my life because he wasn't my father. And I need to try to make this really clear. I did not hate him because I did not want him to be my father. I hated him because I wanted him to be my father. So that's a different type of energy. And so now that I have been introduced to my biological father, it doesn't mean that I go, oh, okay. La, la, la, la, la. It's like I have over half a century of hate and anger that I've lived with that now has to be reprogrammed and once again deconstructed because of what I believed him to be. And so now I'm left with a lot of pieces that I'm having to maneuver through, and it takes time, and. And I'm not going to rush so that people can have another Hallmark movie. I'm not going to do that.
- [18:35]
A
Do not.
- [18:35]
B
I'm not going to do that. That doesn't. That doesn't benefit anybody involved. I'm going to take my time to do what it is I need to do in the process of. I'm 53 years old. I wasn't looking for no daddy.
- [18:48]
A
Right. At this age. Right.
- [18:49]
B
At 53, he gonna pick me up from school.
- [18:53]
A
What are you gonna do?
- [18:54]
B
What are we gonna do? Yeah. So, you know, I've got to. I've got to maneuver. And then once again, you know, I have to divorce my heart from what I thought was.
- [19:07]
A
Yeah.
- [19:10]
B
You know, and, and, and, you know, this man went to his grave knowing that I hated him. He went to his grave. So, you know, that hurts too. He didn't deserve it.
- [19:20]
A
Yeah.
- [19:22]
B
Yeah. So there's a lot there, you know, and the tour has been wonderful because I've been able to, you know, get away. Now that the tour's ending. I can be honest, I do feel.
- [19:33]
A
Anxiety because you're not gonna have to sit in it for a minute.
- [19:36]
B
I know I gotta go home.
- [19:37]
A
Yeah.
- [19:37]
B
Oh, and I know I gotta maneuver. Yeah.
- [19:41]
A
Wow.
- [19:42]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [19:43]
A
That's good. So tell me a little bit more about the relationship that you had with your. Did you even have a relationship with the man you thought was your father?
- [19:52]
B
Yeah. Well, you know, I'm adopted. I'm adopted. I was adopted when I was 4 by 64 year old woman named Gertrude. Gertrude was a widow. She was born in 1908.
- [20:04]
A
Wow.
- [20:04]
B
Yeah, I know. I had a fourth grade education and she recycled cans of newspapers to pay for my piano lessons. And matter of fact, Gertrude died before she ever heard any of my music. She never heard any music recorded. So. In marginalized communities, it is not uncommon for kids to be raised by people. But still there may be some visual engagement maybe once, twice, two, three times a year with their biological parents. It's very dysfunctional, but it's real. Because a lot of times outside of our communities, a child that's adopted is in a system, a type of adoption agency, where they don't know their biologicals and they get adopted. Now, they still have a pain of knowing they're adopted, but at least they're introduced to a family now, takes them in. A lot of times in our community, you can be adopted and still know your biological. So it's a. It's a scar that never heals. It's a scar that stays open because every time that biological leaves to go with a boyfriend or go wherever, you want to know why you're not good enough to go with him. And so that's what I've lived with my whole life. So when I was six years old, I was introduced to the man that at this point I thought was my biological father, his father died, picked me up and took me to the funeral. I believe he probably wouldn't have even done that. But the funeral was at a church in that neighborhood that I was living in with Gertrude. I met him then. I didn't see him again until I was 13.
- [21:38]
A
Wow.
- [21:39]
B
I didn't see him again until after my first album came out. And then he started trying to show up at concerts, which pissed me off. So we sure will have a militia mama guy.
- [21:50]
A
Yes.
- [21:50]
B
No relation. And so that's kind of how that would start to be. And so after that, I would even hate him more. So it was not a man that tried to pursue me at any point, try to show up for anything. It wasn't until after. And by this time, I'm 23 years old, 25 years old, and that just.
- [22:07]
A
Didn'T work for me. Absolutely.
- [22:08]
B
Yeah. So that. That. That. That's. That's really the context of him.
- [22:14]
A
Okay. So with your father. Now we know this is your biological father, and you say, he's a good man.
- [22:20]
B
He's a good man.
- [22:22]
A
Was there any point after meeting him that little Kirk was like, dang, I missed out.
- [22:28]
B
I can be candid with you. That there is. There was, and there is a part of me that was very angry at God. It's because I give you it to you in this. In this capsule space. So God in a sovereign plan, because we believe in a sovereignty of God, right? We believe all things, you know, work together. We. We believe everything good, bad, and ugly. Either God creates it or God allows it. That's the sovereignty plan. That's. That's. That's the doctrine of sovereignty, Right? So God in a sovereign plan, allowed my biological father to be 10 minutes away from me my entire life, and I didn't know him in that space. I developed some bad habits, became very promiscuous. Girls, you know, trying to find a love in girls that I didn't have in my mama. It's because my mama wasn't there either. And so those habits, as you now become a Christian now, those habits are sins.
- [23:27]
A
Ooh, yeah.
- [23:29]
B
Feel where I'm going.
- [23:30]
A
I do. Yes.
- [23:31]
B
So God and his sovereignty allowed this absence of my father. I developed bad habits, and then as I got older, they now become sin. So God allowed absence that created now something that he hates.
- [23:43]
A
Oh.
- [23:46]
B
I wore with that. I wore with that.
- [23:50]
A
Wow.
- [23:51]
B
I do. I do. I do. I war with it.
- [23:55]
A
I can imagine because as a young boy, you're just looking to fill a void.
- [23:59]
B
That's all you're doing. Yeah, that's all you're doing. And I was never the kind of dude. It was like, yo, man, I got this girl, you know? You know, like, girls were never a chess match for me. You know what I mean? It was never trophies. It was always, you know, that absence of mama. You know what I'm saying? But when you're young and you have sexual urges and desires like a human would, it is how you interpret and how you try to maneuver what you think love is. And then, you know, you realize that it's very shallow approach to love, but it's what you know.
- [24:32]
A
Yes.
- [24:32]
B
And so for God and his sovereign plan to allow that space, because again, in the hood, there's no after school programs and no daycares. And what do kids do in the hood? Yeah, you know, you know, you play the little game hide and go get it.
- [24:44]
A
Yeah, you done got it.
- [24:46]
B
You done got it. You done got it with my camera. He done got it. He sure got it. He got it again and again and again. So, you know, you know, you just develop bad things that were allowed in a space of God, sovereign, sovereignly.
- [25:13]
A
Yes.
- [25:13]
B
Making this emptiness. And so, yeah, I, I, I struggle. I struggle. And I don't need Christians trying to give me a theological answer. Let me struggle.
- [25:25]
A
Yes, I struggle.
- [25:27]
B
David struggled, Job struggled. We struggle, we struggle. Paul says, I see through a glass darkly. Now, I don't understand everything. Now. Let us struggle. It's like, Chris, I don't, I don't know what that is about Christians, we think that we always got to have the answer and the solution to everything. Sometimes the greatest thing, like, like one of the things that pisses me off more than anything is that when somebody's child dies and a Christian saying, well, God needed another angel. My Nick boy, I just think that that is the most offensive thing. Yeah, just shut up, bro.
- [26:01]
A
Yes. Don't say anything.
- [26:03]
B
Just shut up. And these are the things that I want people to understand that we do not offend. If God is our father, I have kids. Ain't nothing my kids can ever say to me that's gonna ever stop me from being a. Well, I mean, we've seen some of my life live out publicly. I'm still a daddy. I'm still there, you know?
- [26:25]
A
So, yeah, love that. Let's tap on that real quick. I. Everybody saw the viral video of you.
- [26:33]
B
Going in the viral video of you.
- [26:36]
A
Going in on your son. Y' all remember that?
- [26:38]
B
No. Is it something new? You're gonna reveal.
- [26:44]
A
Watch the video. I'm joking. But I remember watching it, and I was like, I think most of the black community was like, that ain't nothing, like, nobody, you know, the overly Christian people, like, oh, you shouldn't do that. And that's not Christian. Like, and he shouldn't do that. But I ain't gonna lie. When I saw it, I was like, oh, that's just a normal talking to, you know? But as I thought about it and just thinking of our culture and how we have began to normalize, like, oh, that's fine. You know what I'm saying? Like, that's how my mama talked to me. You know what I'm saying? And we turned out all right, you know, but. Exactly. It doesn't make it right.
- [27:22]
B
It doesn't make it right. And that did not make me right. That was a moment that I was very disappointed in. And I have to own that, you know. You know, I can allow for any situation to allow me to get to that space. And I can be honest and say that often. Like, that ain't the first time I went off on somebody like that, you know? You know, I'm a. You know, I have that Napoleon, me too, you know, thing, you know, and I want all the smoke. And if you cross me wrong, you know, it's like I. You know, and that's one of my weaknesses. That's one of my struggles. That is still my struggle. If I see somebody, you know, being treated wrong, I like to jump in and take up form, you know, and. And every word I'm gonna be. I pray for you, brother, you know, it's gonna be, you know, and, you know, and. And I struggle, you know, that. That's. That's. It's not right. It's not right. But I'm not gonna act in front of people that I've got it all together. So, you know, I want to acknowledge that it was something I did wrong. And it was, you know, my son was 33 at the time. 32, 33 free, you know, so again, I'm, you know, I'm also talking to somebody who. Who put themselves in position of a man, you know, and. And, you know, and. And we were happy because, you know, you know, his audio was on there too.
- [28:43]
A
It was. Yes. You know, it was like you had.
- [28:45]
B
I mean, you know, it was like.
- [28:47]
A
I'm afraid for you, saying, yeah, that's.
- [28:48]
B
How you want to talk. And his response tonight, why are you talking to me? Like, it wasn't that. Yeah, you know, his response Was like, what?
- [28:54]
A
You what?
- [28:55]
B
So, you know, it was two. But again, somebody. Somebody got to be the bigger person, and I wasn't, you know, And I hate that, too, man. But because. And the reason why I also hated it, you know, is because I. I knew the state of my son, and that should have allowed me to be more gracious.
- [29:18]
A
Wow. That's. I feel like that in itself is a message to parents.
- [29:21]
B
Yeah, man. Yeah, man. I knew the state of my son, but I just said, you know, it just caught me because I hadn't talked to. When. When. When. When he recorded me. I hadn't. I hadn't talked to carry on. Like, that was the second time I talked to carry on in two. Two and a half years.
- [29:41]
A
Wow.
- [29:42]
B
And it was the. And those conversations were back to back, like, one weekend, the next weekend. And they were both bad because the. The. The audio that y' all heard, they were two separate conversations. So he had recorded me twice.
- [29:55]
A
Oh, my goodness.
- [29:56]
B
Yeah.
- [29:57]
A
Wow. Did you feel betrayed?
- [29:58]
B
Yes, I did. Yes, I did. Yes, I did. I felt very much betrayed. But again, it doesn't justify what I did. And again, I knew the state of my son. And, you know, let me also say this also, man. My son is a beautiful. I love him.
- [30:19]
A
Yeah.
- [30:19]
B
He's my firstborn. I love him. He's so handsome. He's so. Oh, you. Talented. Oh, man, this kid has so much talent, and, well, this young. This grown man. Yeah. He's 35 now, and I love him, and I still believe in him. And, you know, we've got a lot of work that we have to do, but it's a lot of work that I'm committed to do.
- [30:46]
A
Good. I love it.
- [30:48]
B
Oh, man. He's my son. He's my son. He's my firstborn. And me and this boy have been tight like he was my road dog. When my career first took off, I remember being at a. And he was, like, five. I remember being at a high school doing. Signing autographs. My first album, I'm signing autographs, and we looked down, and this little nigger signed an article. So, you know. Yeah. You know. You know, he was. I mean, he was my guy, but he is my guy.
- [31:19]
A
Yes.
- [31:19]
B
Yeah. You know, I mean. I mean, he's been all over the world with me.
- [31:22]
A
That's amazing.
- [31:23]
B
He's been all over the world with me.
- [31:25]
A
Wow.
- [31:25]
B
That's my guy.
- [31:26]
A
I saw on your documentary, you had a conversation with him and told him that you had found your father, and you all had a very warm embrace. What did that moment feel like for you? Because I know that's when I lost it all. Like I was crying the whole episode, but then that's when I was like. Because it felt like we were there through it with you guys.
- [31:44]
B
Well, you know, I hadn't seen him in over 10 years I hadn't seen him in over 10 years when that happened, so. So when I saw him, you know, for that doc, you know, you know, it had been over a decade, and so just to get a chance to embrace him, to hold him, you know, it was beautiful for me. It was beautiful for me because I hadn't been able to just touch him.
- [32:06]
A
Yeah.
- [32:07]
B
You know, and, you know, he's been through a lot. He's been through a lot. He's been through a lot, you know, and I want more of that, you know, And I'm very proud of the fact that the hard, deep work I see him doing. And I believe someday, when Carry on is ready, he's going to be able to help a lot of you, young man.
- [32:32]
A
Wow.
- [32:32]
B
I'm telling you, I'm telling his story. His story is going to be.
- [32:38]
A
Oh, yeah, that's amazing.
- [32:40]
B
He's special.
- [32:40]
A
Yeah, he's special. I love that with everything that you've gone through, you have had your beautiful wife Tammy, shout, tammy, I love you, sis. You have had her by your side. And oftentimes we see Kirk and you are the one that we see. You're the household name, but we don't think about how it's affecting everyone around you. And I saw she was in a state of shock as well. When you found out that you got the DNA results back and you were on the phone, you were like, say that again. She's lied. My mom has lied to me my whole life. How has it affected Tammy? Cause sometimes I don't know if you're like me. I'm the type of person where I need to be by myself.
- [33:21]
B
That's the problem. That's it right there. And it's. And I don't know if that's a creative thing. That's a thing of creatives. I don't know what that is, but I think that that's what I have to manage more than anything. The natural instinct to be alone.
- [33:39]
A
Yeah.
- [33:40]
B
And first of all, shout out to Tammy Franklin. Tammy Franklin is a beautiful soul. She's an incredible woman. She's an amazing woman. And it takes a lot to be married to someone who has lived with so much of a traumatic. Because my, you know, my experiences have not only been traumatically as far as natural family, my experience has been traumatic when it comes to religion. When it comes to religion. Because think about it, man, is I've been not, and we know this, I've been dogged my career even by the kind of music I do with the church.
- [34:15]
A
Yeah.
- [34:15]
B
You know, I've been kicked out of churches, I've been kicked out of Bible colleges. I mean, you know, and so it just takes a very special woman to be able to experience all of that. And, yeah, this is a season where I find isolation and being alone even something more that I gravitate to. And I have to fight to try to be intentionally to be reminded, and especially now that my kids are gone. Yes, it's because my kids was interesting for me. And again, because I didn't have family. See, Tammy comes from a big family, so what was natural for her was very unnatural for me. And so having kids gave me something to make up all the hurt I didn't have not having a daddy. Yes, I put it all in them. I put it all in them. Sometimes, even to the fault, I can be honest and say, and I've never said this on anything before, and I even say, and I'll be transparent here to say is that even to a fault, that a lot of times I realize now that they were empty, nesting. I probably invested even more into them than I even sometimes did her. Because with her, the natural man to do thing is always the red bottoms, the car, the purses, you know, you're always doing the things that you think.
- [35:37]
A
Are the things, and that's not the.
- [35:39]
B
Thing, and they're not the things, you know, and so I am guilty of that. I am extremely guilty of that, you know, and, you know, it, it's not intentional, it's just what you end up doing because you're so busy trying to make it. And then when you come from poverty, you know, you, you think that these things are the things that matter. But also it was a lot for me, a lot of the attention was these kids cannot feel what I felt. They cannot feel what I felt. And not having a blueprint for being a daddy, I overdid the daddy.
- [36:12]
A
Yeah.
- [36:13]
B
You know what I mean? You know, it's like I would come in from the studio, you know, three or four o' clock in the morning and sit up and sit up in the chair so I wouldn't fall asleep, so I could take them to school in a way, you know, because, like, they cannot feel it. They cannot feel it. And so that's what drove me.
- [36:27]
A
Yeah, but in all that, you feel like you was neglecting Tammy as well?
- [36:34]
B
I don't. Well, that would be for her to say if it was neglecting, you know. You know.
- [36:39]
A
Cause she may not feel that way.
- [36:40]
B
Yeah, yeah. You know, But. But. But. But whatever she may feel, I look back and go, you know, man, I did not learn. And then it's also the thing is that, you know, some things are taught, some things are caught, and I did not have a lot around me to be able to teach me some of the husband stuff. Now, my spiritual father, I spent a lot of time with him trying to learn how to be a husband, trying to learn how to be a God. I met Tony Evans. Tony Evans?
- [37:11]
A
Yes. I saw you on his documentary. I knew that's what you were talking about.
- [37:14]
B
He's my hero. He's my hero. He's my hero. He's incredible. And so, you know, I know that I've still got a lot of learning, you know, and I think that this empty nesting thing has shooketh me.
- [37:23]
A
Mm. Because you have nothing to. You're like, wait, I got to sit in this for real.
- [37:29]
B
Look in the mirror, baby, and see what people. Also to realize Tammy and I got married with kids.
- [37:36]
A
Oh, I didn't know that.
- [37:37]
B
We've never lived by ourselves.
- [37:39]
A
Wow. Okay.
- [37:41]
B
Yeah. I had carried out.
- [37:42]
A
So both of y' all are kind.
- [37:43]
B
Of like, not her as much me, because, again, I come to the table with these family deficiencies. So, you know, I got married on a Saturday and went on a plate that Tuesday.
- [37:55]
A
Oh, wow.
- [37:56]
B
And. And. And. And I've been gone ever since.
- [37:59]
A
Yeah.
- [38:00]
B
And we had to. And we had two kids already. And then we. And then we got pregnant less than a year in our marriage. So, you know, we just. You know, it just kept. And so the kids became. And when you travel as much as I do, you do have the fear of the kids missing out. You know, it's. It's almost like, as a man, the natural button is to think of the kids.
- [38:23]
A
Yep.
- [38:24]
B
I don't know what that is. You just naturally worry. Okay, well, I want these kids to miss me at their play. I want them to miss me. You know, it's because I think that the life of the children and all that they're involved in becomes the priority for both parents at times, because, you know, I was very blessed to be able to have a position where Tammy didn't have to go to work, you know, so she. You know, and I enjoyed watching her pour into these kids. So, you know, that was our nucleus so now that we don't have those things, I thought. And again, not her, me. It's like my babies are gone. I don't have anything to nurture. And so I'm trying to find my way.
- [39:13]
A
Wow.
- [39:14]
B
Yeah.
- [39:15]
A
I can't imagine what that's like. And it's crazy because as adults, we start to look back and we're like. Like you said, I just wanted. I never wanted them to feel what I felt.
- [39:24]
B
Never want them to feel.
- [39:25]
A
Never. And. But that little boy and that little girl never leaves us.
- [39:28]
B
That's what it is. That's what it is. And again, that ain't got nothing to do with your spouse. You know, like I said, you know, Tammy's superwoman. She is, man. Tammy's a superhero. She's a super Tammy. He's one of the most kindest, sweet. And again, Tammy's got great, you know, parents, you know, she, you know, mom and daddy, big old house nigga. I came from sleeping in the car, you know what I mean? I pawned Gertrude's wedding ring when I was 20 because I was so hungry and had no food. I pawned her wedding ring and the lawnmower. So that's how bad things were for me, you know? So, you know. You know, you just trying to figure it out.
- [40:09]
A
Do you feel like you live because you've made it? But do you feel like you ever catch yourself living in a scarcity mindset, remembering being homeless and having the pawn always ringing?
- [40:19]
B
Always. And there's never a mindset for me of that I made it. Like, I don't feel like I've made it.
- [40:25]
A
Are you kidding me, girl?
- [40:27]
B
Are you kidding? Because, see, here's what you gotta understand. Also, I'm also part of a musical genre that is a niche genre. Like. Like, I'm not doing mainstream music. Like, I don't do mainstream. Now, now, now. I can't deny and say that the Lord has been extremely kind in my career. But you got to understand, I'm part of a genre that behind closed doors, I'm always dealing with issues. Like, I am, man. Okay, here it is. Here it is. I am part of a genre that behind closed doors, I'm always knocking and begging.
- [41:05]
A
Wow.
- [41:07]
B
Because people on the bigger platforms, major corporations and companies, they don't believe in gospel music. They don't see the marketing value in gospel. So you're always having to prove to them that it can work. There's never. There's never been a time in my career that a red carpet has been laid out.
- [41:27]
A
Wow.
- [41:28]
B
It's Feast of Famine over here. My entire career, baby girl, you better ask, man, you better ask. Out of all the tours that I've done in my life, and I've been touring for the last 25 years, I've only done two tours in my life that were profitable. What it was the Hopeville Tour right after September 11th with Don McClurk and Yolanda Adams. It was profitable. And the Maverick tour.
- [41:57]
A
Wow.
- [41:57]
B
Those are only tours that I personally was financially blessed to make. To. To make money and come with money. Only two tours. Yeah. Because everything else, you're having to really invest in it yourself.
- [42:08]
A
Oh, my goodness.
- [42:09]
B
Yeah, man. In gospel music, there's. That's why you don't really see people running to do gospel music. But, you know, it ain't like it's a flow of funds and flow of opportunities. No, gospel music is Feast of Famine.
- [42:22]
A
Yeah.
- [42:24]
B
So when you have a conversation about made it, we so busy knocking on doors, we don't even know what that means. We so busy banging on doors. Give us a chance. Give us a chance.
- [42:35]
A
Oh, yeah.
- [42:36]
B
Oh, yeah. Always My entire career.
- [42:40]
A
Wow. You just never know because people like. I look at you, I'm like, oh, he's made it, man. He's been doing this since I can remember.
- [42:47]
B
Ask when you. Next time you call Tammy. Ask Tammy.
- [42:49]
A
Tammy.
- [42:49]
B
Tell you, man, all of the headaches and the tears and the discouragement. Oh, man, the nose.
- [42:57]
A
Wow.
- [42:58]
B
Because think about it, man. You know, it's 2023. Talking about Jesus is like selling Amway, selling Avon knocking on people doors, you know, trying to get people to believe in something they don't even use anymore. That'll preach, right?
- [43:11]
A
Yes, preach. Trying to get them to believe in.
- [43:19]
B
Something that they don't even use.
- [43:21]
A
They don't even use. Don't let that go over your head. My God. My God. Why haven't you given up? You talk about this industry does not support. It's like you're constantly knocking on the door asking for help, but you haven't given up yet.
- [43:41]
B
First of all, I'm too ambitious. I'm too ambitious. I am. Let me tell you, I'm ambitious. I can't sit down. Like, I. It's like I'm hungry.
- [43:50]
A
Yeah.
- [43:51]
B
I'm a new artist. Every record I approach is a new artist. I am. I'm chilling. And I think some of that is that abandonment, you know? I am fueled by my trouble.
- [44:03]
A
Wow.
- [44:04]
B
And I'm okay. I'm okay with it. Because I could be fueled doing some other things, you know, I'M fueled. I'm fueled by my trauma. I'm too ambitious. I'm too hungry. I tell. Like, I had a. I had a couple of younger producers come into my studio and they saw, you know, the little, you know, the little, you know, whatever the stuff is that you be wearing, whatever. And, and, and, and, and, and, and what I'm saying, he said. He said. He said, oh, gee, what's the secret? First of all, this. Linda called me og.
- [44:36]
A
I was like, you're like, wait a minute. That's like. People call me auntie. I'm like, yup. Stop it.
- [44:40]
B
Watch it. Yeah, yeah. Calm that down. Yes. And I said to him, I said, well, I think I know what you're asking me, and so I'll give you the answer. I said, what? What? And I said. I said, but it's not gonna be sexy. My answer. Not gonna be sexy. I said, the answer is I am too insecure for you to forgive me. I can't afford for you to forgive. Forget me. So I'm going to do whatever I need to do to make sure that you don't forget me, because I can't afford to be forgotten.
- [45:13]
A
Wow.
- [45:15]
B
Not in an arrogant state. Just the fact of. Man, they can't forgive me. It's like. It's like I can't afford to be forgotten again. I know what it's like to be forgotten.
- [45:26]
A
Geez, Kurt. So, yeah, Kirk, with everything that you've been through, we are really big on mental health here in the Kipps community. You have had a therapist for over 20 years.
- [45:41]
B
Yeah, I know.
- [45:42]
A
Yes, I know. Even before therapy was popular. Because I shouldn't be.
- [45:45]
B
I should be getting a discount by now. Dr. Acho, I need a discount. I done brought so many people to you. I had. He tells me all the time. He's not jeering. He's like, oh, your documentary's got people calling me all about the place. I said, man, can you cut me some slime? That's my man. I love him.
- [46:03]
A
That's amazing. I love that you got into it before it was even popular. What made you say, I need therapy?
- [46:09]
B
Because. Broken.
- [46:10]
A
Wow.
- [46:10]
B
I was broken. And I am wired naturally to seek help. That's who I am. Naturally. Like, I get on people's nerves. I'm the type of person, if there's a bump on my pinky toe, I'm at the doctor the next day.
- [46:25]
A
What is that? That's good, though.
- [46:26]
B
Yeah.
- [46:27]
A
Because you never know.
- [46:28]
B
Because at night I'm like, they gonna take my pinky toe? You know? And it's like, the doctor comes in, it's a bunion, you know? And I'm like, lord, what's the bunion? You know what I'm saying? Because I'm just that type of person. I'm always wanting help. I always want help. I'm not afraid for help.
- [46:50]
A
That's good.
- [46:51]
B
And that could be that deficiency.
- [46:53]
A
I think so. Yeah. I was thinking that. Yeah. But that's good. You're not afraid to ask for it at all. Because a lot of people would be oblivious. Or some people don't even know they need it.
- [47:00]
B
No. I'm a black man that prays and she's a therapist.
- [47:03]
A
That's amazing. Because even I know. I know people personally. They're like, I don't either have Jesus. And I'm like that.
- [47:11]
B
And it sounds so dumb.
- [47:14]
A
Say it again.
- [47:14]
B
That sounds so dumb. I don't need therapy. I have Jesus. Dumb. I have cancer. But I'm not going to get chemo because I have Jesus.
- [47:24]
A
Right? Come on. Literally. Because I know they'll go get that chemo. Yeah. But they don't need to hear, I'm.
- [47:32]
B
Not going to take a shower because I have Jesus. I'm hungry. I knew you had another one. I'm hungry. But he's the bread of life. Yeah.
- [47:46]
A
I am Jesus.
- [47:47]
B
I have Jesus. Yeah. Okay.
- [47:52]
A
Oh, my goodness. So good. So you talk about you constantly questioning God. You go through this phase where you question God a lot throughout your life, but not realizing that everything that you've done has allowed people not to. Through your career, through your songs, like, for me personally, like, you gave me reason. Like, I can go on. I know that I can make it. I know that I can stand even those moments where I don't feel like it or God, why is this happening? You've given everybody hope. Do you ever go through situations or question yourself behind closed doors? Like, I know that I doubt and question God, but I'm telling these people, you can do it. You can do it.
- [48:36]
B
And is that hypocritical?
- [48:38]
A
Yeah.
- [48:38]
B
One of the greatest illustrations of this level of honesty to me is the Apostle Paul.
- [48:46]
A
I love him.
- [48:47]
B
The Apostle Paul is this individual that God uses to write 90% of the new Testament. So he is the architect of the New Testament church. And his letters to the churches, they set the trajectory of us understanding the ideal construct of grace, moving people from law, legalism. And yet in all of his writings and teachings and blueprints for us to be able to now be able to have personal access to God. The Father, through his resurrected son, Jesus Christ. He says in Romans something that is the template for the discussion we're having. He says to the Romans, he says, but everything that I'm writing to you guys, I admit I have not obtained it for the things that I want to do are the things I don't do, the good that I desire to do, the things I don't do, and the things that I don't want to do are the things I end up doing.
- [49:51]
A
Yes.
- [49:52]
B
Oh, wretch man that I am, who will free me from this body of death?
- [49:56]
A
You just did. That was the intro of one of your songs.
- [49:59]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [50:01]
A
On the Maverick City album. Yes.
- [50:03]
B
Yeah. Well, yeah, I've done it many times. I've done it many times. I've talked about it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's because I think that that is the. See, see, the paradox of Christianity is I am a mess and a miracle at the same time.
- [50:20]
A
Yes, me too.
- [50:22]
B
That is the paradox of Christianity. I am a mass and a miracle at the same time. And so that is why I am so irritated with the perfect bow wrapped on the package of what it looks like to be like Jesus. Because the template and the book that we use and this canon of scripture that gives us the outline of how we desire to live are written by murderers, liars, adulterers, killers, cheaters, bad parents, you know, thieves, like they thieves and polygamists and all of these things that we call them our heroes, but they were messes and miracles at the same time. But we don't give that level of patience and grace to each other while we quote them. I don't understand it. It is the most. It is the most. And that's why I believe. I believe you see one of the greatest exoduses out of Christianity that we have seen in the 21st century. We have so many people leaving Christianity because people can't take that no more.
- [51:32]
A
They can't.
- [51:33]
B
It's like. It's like. It's because, see, when you go to the club, you know what you get when you go to the woo woo, woo. You know what you're getting when you smoke this? You know? Well, you hope you get. Yeah. When you drink this, you know, you, you. It's like there's no ambiguity.
- [51:48]
A
Yes.
- [51:50]
B
To the things outside of these religious dogmatic structures. You know, I'm saying to you that as a Christian that is married, that is a father that stands in front of people. There are things about me that are not yet like Jesus. And there's a lot about me. I am one of my mentors said he. He gave me a quote. Well, he said something to me that I made a quote, and it's on one of my phones, a scream saver. He said, kirk, you are a man, a sinner, a saint, and a star. And then he said, the odds are against you. You see what I'm saying? It's like, that's real talk now. I don't see myself as a star. That's what he said. You know, But I understand the content. He was talking about just a public figure, you know? Yeah, yeah. So. But. But any kind of included by saying, but if God before you. So, you know, But. But. But the thing is, every day, I am a man, a sinner, a saint, and a public figure or whatever, and I live in those realities every day. The things that I would do good are the things I don't always do and the things I don't do, things I shouldn't do. The things I do.
- [53:04]
A
Yeah.
- [53:06]
B
Oh, rich man, that I am so.
- [53:09]
A
Wow.
- [53:10]
B
Yeah.
- [53:10]
A
I'm just blown away right now. Seriously. Thank you so much.
- [53:16]
B
Thank you for having me and your beautiful home and congratulations to all of your great success. And. Yeah, it just makes me proud. Even from a distance, I'm just proud, you know? I mean, there are others that know you in more intimate, closer ways, but just, you know, on the outside, it's like, is it beautiful?
- [53:33]
A
Thank you so much.
- [53:34]
B
This is so dope, and I'm so proud of you. And you're so consistent with everybody you meet. Everybody you meet, you're the same.
- [53:39]
A
You are, too, though. I feel like every time I've met you, in different moments, you've been from meeting you at the studio, meeting you, seeing you on the red carpets, meeting you backstage at Maverick City concert, to now, like, you are the same person and you are unforgettable. Like, literally, like, when you say, I'm too insecure to be forgotten, like, every moment I was like, man, it was amazing, and it always sticks with me. So I just want you to know that you are unforgettable. Like, seriously. And I hope that you can just come to an understanding that you are enough and that you can let that insecurity go, because you really are a light. You are a star. Like, in our eyes, you really are. And I want you to know that and walk in that confidently.
- [54:27]
B
But I want you to know if I don't, I'm okay. Because my weakness God uses for other strength.
- [54:35]
A
Yeah. I'm a witness, so I'm okay. Yeah.
- [54:38]
B
I really am. And. And I know that sounds like it's trying to be otherworldly or super surreal. I'm really coming to a place. You know what's cool about getting older is you get some places where you really don't care.
- [54:52]
A
Oh, my gosh. I love it.
- [54:53]
B
It's wonderful.
- [54:54]
A
It is.
- [54:55]
B
It's wonderful. I'm okay because I understand how the limps lead to other people's race.
- [55:03]
A
Yeah.
- [55:03]
B
And I'm good. I'm good.
- [55:06]
A
That is so good. At the close of our show, we do what is called positive outcomes, where our listeners write into us and we give them advice.
- [55:16]
B
Okay.
- [55:16]
A
You down?
- [55:17]
B
I'm down.
- [55:17]
A
All right, let's do it. This one says, Hi, Crystal. I'm 50 years old and for the past 18 years I've been in a relationship with a married man. I know that is not okay.
- [55:27]
B
How many years?
- [55:27]
A
18 years she's been.
- [55:29]
B
Really?
- [55:29]
A
Yeah. With a married man. Yeah. I know this is not okay to be with a married man, but I'm 50 and I'm more afraid that I will never meet someone and I don't want to be alone. I have a 16 year old daughter. We have a 16 year old daughter together. And she does not know that her father has a whole other family. I have gotten to the point where I can no longer keep lying to my daughter and want to tell her the truth, but her father does not want her to know. I don't want her to find out from another source down the line, but I don't want her to judge me either. What should I do?
- [56:00]
B
For the sake of the child? I think. How old is her daughter?
- [56:11]
A
16. Yeah. So she's probably starting to have. Well, she knows. It seems like she knows her father. She just doesn't know that she has another family.
- [56:20]
B
Gotcha. Okay. So she knows that this guy's her dad.
- [56:22]
A
Mm. Yeah.
- [56:24]
B
Okay.
- [56:25]
A
Yeah. She just. She does not know that her father has a whole other family.
- [56:28]
B
Gotcha. But she knows of him. Does he spend time with her?
- [56:32]
A
I don't know.
- [56:33]
B
Okay.
- [56:33]
A
Yeah. There's a lot of unknowns here.
- [56:36]
B
Yeah. I would recommend that her and her daughter find a beautiful therapist because whatever the outcome is of the woman and the relationship, it doesn't change the fact that the daughter's here.
- [56:54]
A
Yeah.
- [56:54]
B
You know what I'm saying? The daughter's alive and here. So, you know, it's really now about the daughter and the well being of the daughter. You know, the unfortunate events of how the child got here doesn't take away from the fact that the child is here. And so now it's all about what the best interest is for the child. I would find a therapist who can be able to make sure that the young lady is the least damaged.
- [57:26]
A
Yes.
- [57:26]
B
Because there's going to be damage, you know. You know, she's a casualty of this experience. But I would really try to find a therapist is because the two of them have a child together now.
- [57:41]
A
Yeah.
- [57:42]
B
So, you know, their experience is now secondary to that baby. You know, and you know there's going to be repercussions, there's going to be fallout, there's going to be all of those realities. But I would recommend them to be able to get to a loving professional. Not a deacon at the church.
- [58:05]
A
Hello.
- [58:05]
B
Who do counseling in between.
- [58:10]
A
A real professional.
- [58:13]
B
Somebody's got a couple of pieces of paper behind their name. You know what I'm saying? And I'm not saying that that makes them perfect, but. But there is a discipline that comes from the rigorous process of getting to that place.
- [58:26]
A
Right.
- [58:27]
B
So that's what I. That. That's what I would humbly advise.
- [58:29]
A
Yeah.
- [58:30]
B
You know, I'm not a professional, but I know that children matter.
- [58:34]
A
Yeah. I agree with you 1000%. And I can speak. I'm sure, you know families that like grandparents. I know a lot of people my age have grandparents who granddad may have stepped out and had a whole nother child on the other side of town. And you don't find out about it until your grown is like, oh, I got a brother that's 20. What?
- [58:54]
B
Yeah. You know, until that funeral.
- [58:57]
A
Right. Yes. Everything starts. Oh, everything comes out of the funeral. And. But the child is the one that has to suffer not knowing that, like, their friend that in high school was actually their brother or their sister, you.
- [59:08]
B
Know, and they were dating.
- [59:10]
A
That part. Yeah. Oh, that's the worst. When you found, like, wait a minute, we're related and ain't nobody told me. So. Yes, I would definitely be honest with her.
- [59:19]
B
Child comes first.
- [59:20]
A
Yes.
- [59:20]
B
Child comes first.
- [59:21]
A
For sure. Great advice. Okay. So the next thing we do is what I'm going through and what I'm growing through.
- [59:31]
B
That's cute.
- [59:31]
A
That's cute. What I'm going through, what I'm going through. For me, in this season, I am going through. And it's been like this. I'm such a control freak. I tell everybody this. I like to know the variables. I don't like anything unknown. I like to control it, you know? You do? Yes. And for me, it is trusting God. And even with this Strike that just. We just finished the strike, and we're not. We're going back to work. But even in that, I was tested so much.
- [60:05]
B
I know you were.
- [60:05]
A
Oh, my goodness.
- [60:07]
B
I know your light bill was tested.
- [60:09]
A
It sure was. I was.
- [60:10]
B
I know your car note was tested. Are you kidding me?
- [60:14]
A
Please, listen. The mortgage, everything.
- [60:16]
B
Listen. I was like, come on, let's keep it a buck.
- [60:19]
A
Yes.
- [60:20]
B
Okay. Sitting around when you're doing what we do, it's like, I'm going to have the next three years saved up.
- [60:26]
A
Right. For when a strike happens, not when you're an entrepreneur.
- [60:30]
B
Because a lot of what we do, we eat. What we kill.
- [60:32]
A
We do. Mm. So true.
- [60:35]
B
Yeah. But. But. But. But.
- [60:36]
A
But in that. In this time, it's, like, really taught me that God has it. Because literally, I was praying to God and I said, God, it was so funny because I went. I was filming last week. I was filming the podcast, and I went downstairs to give me an energy drink, and it was the last day of filming. And literally, the holy spirit hit me. I hit that last step down there, and I said, ooh. And literally said, the strike is gonna be over. And I went to Tyler's premiere, and everybody's like, oh, yeah, the strike gonna be. I give it, like, tomorrow. I said, nah, today. No, she said, january. I said, nah, today. And literally within two hours, everybody got. Phones started going off. She was like, you said it. I was like, no, I was like. I felt it. Like, the spirit really hit me. Cause I had been. Lord, come on, now. I need you to move swiftly on this thing. Cause I like Dinora when them. We got all these brand partnerships that she gets for me. I'm like, so when that money coming? I did this a month ago. It's 30days.net 30.
- [61:32]
B
Come on, listen, listen, man. Like I tell you, I have struggled with these tours. I told Tammy. Cause Tammy wanted a new house. And, well, we were blessed to get a new house.
- [61:43]
A
Congratulations.
- [61:44]
B
And I always make a joke to everybody around me. I'm like, all right, y' all gonna see me at one of these little clubs. I'm gonna be stripping. I'm gonna be able to do little gospel. I'm stripping gospel music.
- [61:58]
A
You think that this gossiping has gone too far? You think we got it too far? You ain't seen nothing.
- [62:03]
B
But guess what my stripper name is. What my stripper name is. You're my stripper name.
- [62:08]
A
You ready? I'm ready. I'm not ready.
- [62:15]
B
My stripper name is.
- [62:18]
A
Low Cheeks.
- [62:28]
B
Welcome. Welcome to the stage.
- [62:32]
A
LC Muches LC you play.
- [62:41]
B
That's a good laugh that was. Ain't it? Laugh. That's that analap where you laugh and be saying the word when you laugh.
- [62:46]
A
Right?
- [62:46]
B
Little T.
- [62:50]
A
You play Zoom Saints.
- [62:52]
B
It never happened. You don't have to worry. It never happened.
- [62:55]
A
Don't worry.
- [62:55]
B
But if times got hard, I'mma take him up. Because the Bible says a man that don't take care of his family is worse than infidel. So I will be somewhere.
- [63:05]
A
Right? Right.
- [63:07]
B
Little cheeks.
- [63:07]
A
Little cheeks.
- [63:08]
B
Tammy got to eat. Oh, my goodness. Tammy got to eat. Tammy got to eat.
- [63:13]
A
That's right.
- [63:15]
B
Them kids got eat. Little cheeks.
- [63:18]
A
I love it. All right. Is there anything that you're going through and growing through in this season of your life?
- [63:25]
B
That is so funny how she just tried to move past that together. I love that. Let me drink real quick. Hold on. Oh, my God.
- [63:33]
A
I'm gonna sit mine.
- [63:36]
B
Oh, man. Anything I'm going through or growing through, I think, you know, has been up for public display over the last six months. And, you know, it is. It. It is a real mountain that I'm. That I'm having to climb, and it's what I'm going through, and it is yet to be seen what the growing looks like.
- [64:04]
A
Yeah. Ooh.
- [64:05]
B
Yeah. And I'm okay with.
- [64:07]
A
Yes. I love that you're open with me.
- [64:08]
B
Okay with that. I'm okay. Because again, this is not a movie. This is not a movie. This is not. This is not a Christian TBN movie where everybody got to be on the other side shouting and dancing. This is real life.
- [64:24]
A
Yes. Wow.
- [64:27]
B
And in real life, Christians die. Christians are murdered. Christians are hopeless. Christians get home hungry. There are Christians in China right now that are having church underground because they'll be killed and sentenced to prison.
- [64:41]
A
Yes. Yes.
- [64:42]
B
That's real life. That ain't pretty. That ain't a bow.
- [64:45]
A
It's not. It's not.
- [64:46]
B
It's not a bow. So I'm okay. Yeah, I'm okay.
- [64:51]
A
Love that. I love that. And we end the show with Keep it blank, sweetie. So how would you fill in the blank?
- [65:01]
B
Keep it blank, sweetie. I would say keep it close.
- [65:08]
A
I like that.
- [65:09]
B
Keep it close. Keep him close. Keep your heart close.
- [65:14]
A
Yes.
- [65:14]
B
Keep your experiences close. Keep your friends close. Keep yourself close.
- [65:22]
A
Wow, I love that.
- [65:23]
B
Yeah.
- [65:24]
A
Oh, that's hard to talk. Okay. I would say we touch on so many good things for this one, I think I would say keep it real, sweetie.
- [65:43]
B
Keep it real.
- [65:44]
A
Keep it real. Yeah.
- [65:46]
B
That's what I did today.
- [65:47]
A
You did, honey. You kept it all the way. 1000 with the people, and we appreciate it. Thank you so much. I appreciate you.
- [65:54]
B
Honored to be here.
- [65:56]
A
No, the honor is all mine. Seriously.
- [65:58]
B
It's your boy, Kirk, AKA LC Lil Cheese.
- [66:04]
A
Wrap it up, guys. Thank you so much for tuning into this episode of Keep It Positive, Sweetie. If you want to write into our positive outcomes listener letter, you can write into keepitpositivesweetiemail.com and that's Sweetie with an IE. You can follow Kips on all platforms at Keep It Positive, Sweetie. And you can follow me on all platforms at lovechrystalrenae. And that's L U V Kirk. Tell the people they can find you. Let us know what you have going on so we can support. Because we want to get behind you, literally.
- [66:30]
B
Well, you want to get behind me. What's up, y', all, man? Thank y' all for supporting the new album, Father's Day, the documentary Father's Day. Thank you for coming to the tour. Very, very grateful. Keep me in your prayers as life is lifing, but God is good. And so you can follow me on Instagram, you can follow me Facebook, follow me on MySpace, Black Planet.
- [66:54]
A
I remember those.
- [66:58]
B
Oh, those are not active no more.
- [67:01]
A
I think MySpace might still be. Or is it all the way gone?
- [67:04]
B
Well, I'm still on the page. I'm sorry.
- [67:07]
A
You might be the only one.
- [67:09]
B
Okay, well, maybe that's why I ain't got a lot of followers.
- [67:12]
A
Thank you so much. Thank you. Oh, man. This is good. This is so good. We did it. Lord, thank you so much for this day. Thank you for giving Kirk the time to be with us today. We know it's going to bless so many people. God, I do not take this platform lightly. I thank you for giving me this opportunity to spread light and positivity. Bless everyone in this room and hear their prayers. Oh, God, in Jesus name I pray. Amen.