← Keep it Positive, Sweetie
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- [00:00]
A
Calling all my sweeties to the forefront. I'm your host, Chris Renee Hazel, and this is the keep it Positive sweetie show. Welcome back, sweeties. This season, we are talking about impact. Not the number of likes or the number of followers, but that deep down legacy level of impact that leads with pure intention. The intention that changes lives, that shifts rooms and plants seeds and. And breaks generational curses. Because it's one thing to be seen, but it's another thing to make an impact and leave a lasting legacy. Today's guest is someone whose voice has literally shifted atmospheres and lifted spirits around the world. He is a worship leader, a songwriter, a visionary, and the man behind some of the most powerful anthems in gospel music. From nobody greater to turning around for me, Vashon Mitchell doesn't just sing. He ministers. And whether you've heard him in the pews or on your playlist or during a moment when you needed to be reminded of who you are, you felt his impact. Kiss family, please give a warm welcome to Vashon Mitchell. What's going on, Vachon? Hey.
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B
Glad to be here.
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A
Happy to have you. When the team said that we were going to have you on, I was so excited. I love your music. So I was super excited to sit down and talk to you because we never met.
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B
No.
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A
So it's our first time, so we get to know each other tonight? Absolutely, yes. So tell me a little about you. You started in the church. You are from Chicago.
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B
Born and raised.
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A
Born and raised in Chicago. Left the south side for Sunny la. Tell me that journey and how you got there.
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B
So you know what? Growing up in Chicago, I was always around gospel music, basically, you know, from Albertina Walker to Thomas Whitfield and all the greats, you know, who have been through there. I became attracted to gospel music at an early age. It's something I wanted to do, but I didn't know if I was good enough, to be honest.
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A
Really?
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B
Yeah. So why? When I was younger, so many others did it better than me. What I can say? I didn't know my lane, so I was trying to be everybody else. I didn't know who I was. So it took me a while studying the industry and studying how to write and write a song and how to deliver a song. I don't run like some of the people. I don't do all these things. So I had to find my lane. And it took me a while to find my lane, but once I found it, you know, I began to not only hear from God, but, like, master my own lane. You know, and not compare myself to nobody else.
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A
So.
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B
So it took me a while, but I finally got there.
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A
Well, you got there. You definitely got there. It's funny you said that, because you sound like me. When I talk to my manager, Wes, he's always pushing me to do music. I didn't get in the studio. Gotta get in the studio. And I have this. I guess it would be an insecurity when it comes to singing. Cause I don't run like everybody does. And I want to, but my voice just doesn't do it. And I'm like, why can't I do that? So, like, even taking voice lessons and trying to find ways to do it in my own way, but now finding my own lane, like you said, it's funny, I've never heard anybody else say that I felt the same way.
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B
Yep.
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A
Yeah.
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B
It was the best thing to do, you know, when I found my own lane, I can only compare myself to me. And that became the easiest path in this music industry.
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A
Absolutely. So you became a minister at the age of 20?
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B
Yeah, well, Minister of music. Music at the age of 20.
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A
I always try to do that. Make people minister.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Minister of music at the age of 20. What, like, what was it like taking that on at such a young age? Cause. Cause that's. I mean, that's still pretty young.
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B
Yeah, I wasn't ready. I actually. I wrote a little book cassette. I wasn't ready. That's what it's called. I was about 19 and going on 20, and the minister of music had been fired, and me and the pastor was on the escalator going somewhere. He said, can you talk to the music department? I said, yeah. I didn't know what I was doing. I've never done it before. All I know is I could teach a song and I could write a song. So basically, that was the beginning of me learning. So I quickly became the son and student to many mentors, because at 20, I did not know what I was doing, and I did not want to touch what was God's incorrectly. So, you know, I was able to get up under some great mentors at the time. And I believe if it wasn't for them, I probably would have. Would not have made it, because it was a big task to take. You know, the church was about 5,000 strong, three locations, four choirs, three praise teams. Yeah.
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A
See, I'm thinking it's like a church like I grew up in with, like, maybe like, 100 members. And, like, minister of music was, like, a pretty easy job. But no, this Was. That's a big undertaking at 20 years old. Wow. So what were some of the roadblocks and things that you had to learn along the way when you got into that role?
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B
Well, one of them, and I'll probably get in trouble saying, is that the pastor was a musician.
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A
Oh.
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B
And he's, you know, a singer.
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A
Yeah.
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So basically, we often clash because I wanted to do the new school, then he had to learn the old school. That was one of the biggest roadblocks that I believe I overcame once I got to know him and he got to know me as well. And we kind of walked together for 10 years, you know, together, but also taking on as the minister of music of a church who had a legacy of music already. So I felt like I was stepping in some big shoes.
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A
Absolutely.
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B
That were hard to feel. So it was time, like I said before, to kind of create my own Lane. So 10 years later, when I left, those who came behind me had to step in my shoes, and those were.
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Big shoes to fill for them.
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Yeah. At that time. At that time, yeah.
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A
Absolutely. Yeah. I can imagine that being a big task. You talked about mentors that helped you make it. Who are some of the people that you looked up to and that helped guide you through that season?
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B
Definitely. Byron Cage.
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A
Wow.
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At the time, Byron Cage was the minister of music of New Birth Atlanta.
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A
Yeah.
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He was also our minister of music at Full Gospel as well. At the same time you went to Full Gospel? Yeah, I was on the Full Gospel, so I learned from him. And then Kathy Taylor Brown, or Kathy Taylor out of Houston, Texas, at the time. She was a great person to learn up under as well. And they took me under their wing. And actually, Byron is the reason why I actually ended up leaving Chicago years later, because he recommended me for a position somewhere else. And that was the beginning of my career and the beginning of Nobody Greater. Once I took that step to say yes.
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A
Yeah. Wow. Let's talk about Nobody Greater. When you did that song, did you have any idea of how big it was gonna be? We played it before we started rolling, and everybody here knows the song. Did you imagine that it would be that big and take you to all the places it's taken you?
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B
I had no clue.
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A
Yeah.
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Basically, I was recording what. What I. What I heard God say, you know, and. And things that I want to be too deep. But at the time, somebody else was supposed to record the song. Just. I know it was supposed to be for me, and two weeks somebody else was recorded.
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A
But you knew it was for you.
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Yeah. Somebody supposed to record the song. And I asked for it. And the writers. The writer was like, well, I'll write something else for you. I was like, okay, cool. So, okay. So. But two weeks before the recording, they got a call that the other. Other label wanted all they published and all this of that. And if you're from Atlanta, you know, Uncle Maurice Culpepper. Uncle Maurice said, give it to. He wanted to record it anyway. And basically Darius Po. That's when he gave us the version of Nobody Greater that we recorded two weeks before the recording. Recorded it that night. I didn't know it would do what it. It did, but it felt different that night as we released the sound.
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A
Yeah.
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You know, and I. And I tell people all around the world that I'm glad God chose me to carry a sound that's bigger than me, because it's a sound that people sing all over the world. Different languages, different cultures. It changed atmospheres. I could never do that.
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A
Right.
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He just chose me to carry it to the world.
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A
And I love that you know that because sometimes I feel like, especially in this Christian culture, we forget that it's not about us, you know, And I love that you haven't lost sight of that, because I can imagine just. Even the exposure of traveling the world and hear it in different languages, you can sometimes forget. It's easy to get caught up in, like, oh, my God, I did this. I did this. But understanding, no, I'm just a vessel and this is God.
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B
Yeah.
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A
That's amazing. I would love to, like. I can't imagine, like, the energy and the spirit in that room that night.
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B
It was. It was something I will always remember.
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A
Yeah.
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And I had recorded many times before that. Right.
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Yeah.
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But this one night, this one song, changed my career, changed my life, and changed my reach.
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Yes. Yeah.
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B
In seven minutes. Basically, that night, like, it shifted the atmosphere. But it also answered the prayer that I've been praying for a long time. A lot of people don't know that. Right before I recorded Nobody Greater, a year before that, I was a seat filler at the Stella Awards. And the seat filler is where you sit in somebody's seat till they come back. So. But that year, Richard Smallwood sang on the second half of the show, and he never came back out. So I sat in his seat the whole night. So I was given a glimpse of what will happen for me a year and a half later. I had my own seat, my own little face on there. And.
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A
And did you take a picture? I did, yes.
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Take that moment and just to, just to go from a seat filler to a six time winner in two years, God was proving himself, you know that what I said and what I showed you will come to pass. But when you're ready for it.
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A
Yes. Yeah.
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When I wanted it, I wasn't ready.
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Isn't that it?
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I would have took God to the wrong places. I know it. When I wanted it, I wasn't ready. But I'm glad he did it for me. When I was ready.
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A
Yeah. Take me to that journey and what that was like from going from a seat filler to six time winner after that. What, what are those? Like, what did it feel like? Did you ever have like imposter syndrome? Or like, wait, is this really happening right now? Like, I was just filling in a seat two years ago. What was that, that time like and that transformation like for you?
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B
You know what, it was surreal even sitting in the show because knowing where I come from and understanding that I served my way up, I didn't sing my way up. So basically don't miss that.
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Yeah, don't miss that.
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Yeah. I served my pastor, I served my fellowship, I served my, my people. And God honored that. It was still surreal to see that. Not that we do this for awards, right? But to see that the people I looked up to, the people who I followed, and Yolanda Adams and Donnie McClurkin and Bibi and Cece Winans, and then they all sang Mitchell. It was really crazy. And then for my artist of the year award was given by cece Winans. So, you know, I almost lost it. Listen, almost lost it. But it was surreal.
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A
Dragged me up to the stage.
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Oh my God, that's a video clip I look at all the time, just me doing like this. But. But yeah, it was surreal, but it was definitely great that those. And at that time I wouldn't even consider my peers. People say that my peers. But at that time, I consider those who paved the way. Yes, those who I've walked behind, who I've walked after. Who said you're next?
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A
Yeah, who you studied. You say you studied the great. Like those are the greats, you know, you name Yolanda and Donnie and cece. I was. Alabaster Box is like one of my favorite songs of hers. And my mom used to play it all the growing up. And it wasn't until probably maybe two or three years ago I played it again or it came up on the playlist and I was in my bathroom and I just started bawling because now that I've lived, I Understand, you weren't there the night he found me.
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B
I don't turn this show in. My God.
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It was, you know, and, like. And it's funny because, like, just live long enough and you'll understand the goodness of God. And so to have those greats be the ones calling your name and giving you that award. I know. That was a beautiful moment. Yeah. Speaking of award shows, we just had the BET Awards. I was there last week, and there's a big uproar in the Christian community. Don't take that deep breath about glow. Really. I'm from Tennessee, so I love me some glow. Get them glow. I love her. But she won. Her and Kirk won that, the Gospel Song of the Year award. And even she was like, what?
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Right.
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I think everybody was a little confused. But so much of the Christian gospel music community has spoken out about it. What are your thoughts on that and how. Because I do like the way that we've bridged the gap between secular and gospel music, because what it does is I think we all pretty much are rooted from the church. And when people go the secular route or go the gospel route and then they come together, it reminds the secular of. You know what I'm saying? With the foundation, you know, so it's a way to bridge that gap. But how do you feel about.
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B
I think we should continue to bridge the gap. I don't blame Glorilla. Not one bit. Gloria Hallelujah. Not one bit. I believe that, you know, because of the criteria she was. Was due to win because, you know, how she ended up on the ballot and things that sort. Yeah, I. I will say something else that others won't say is that I think as a protector of gospel genre, in the name of Dr. Bobby Jones, we have to kind of create some type of family atmosphere that positions what is gospel and then what is urban gospel or contemporary gospel. So we can have those. Keep bridging the gap. But also, don't delete gospel.
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Right. Yeah.
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Keep it. This is probably one of the first times I want to say, I think Yolanda received it. Kirk, Donnie, you know, so it's not like it happened all the time. I don't want it to be the beginning of us deleting the. The gospel artist from it. That's all. That's all.
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A
You know, I feel that. Yeah, that's so true. And I. I love all types of music. You know, as I continue to grow my faith, I do try to pay attention to what I'm listening to. Listening to, because it can stir up things in Me that I may be trying to get rid of, you know, so I try to be mindful of the music that I take in, but I support all creatives, you know, and I, I champion them, so I get it. But it's. I got so many phone calls the next day from, like my peers in the gospel.
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I know you did careful of what I said.
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Right. That breath you took was so funny. He was like, here we go.
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We've just been talking about this, like all week. And it's really, it's. To me, it's really eye opener for us that if we're going to have gatekeepers of gospel, we don't have those who want to preserve gospel music, then now's the right time to have a conversation to say, you know, what is gospel? What is contemporary gospel? What is hip hop gospel? Because realistically, let's be Honest, this is BT's Hip Hop Show.
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Yes.
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Let's be very clear. At the end of the day, can we have a conversation about how do we maintain the sanctity of this music and these artists, but also embrace where we're going with the artists as well?
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A
Yeah. No, that's so true. You have sold out show shows, traveled the world. I want to know one moment that just sticks and maybe a few moments, if you want to share that stick out to you that were like, oh, my goodness. As you travel the world and you look around these, these venues and you're like, this is a packed house.
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Yes.
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What are some of those moments that you can share that you hold close to you?
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I would never forget. I was in New Mexico.
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Beautiful city.
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Beautiful.
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Yeah.
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But we was at the stadium. When they said stadium.
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Stadium.
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Yeah, they said stadium. I was like, oh, yeah, I'm just going to stadium. You know, this is my first time ever in New Mexico. First time I get to sound check and I see all these seats, you know, and, you know, I'm thinking some people may show up, they may not show up. We roll up that night, it was me and Cece wine and stood up and literally 200,000 people.
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My goodness. What?
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Singing with me. Nobody grading before I sang in another language. Right. They understood the spirit behind the songs.
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Yeah.
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And that's probably the most memorable moment. I've been to many other places, but that time to just see people who don't actually all speak English.
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Yes.
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But understand the spirit, it was. It was absolutely amazing. I never forget it.
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I love that. Yeah. The spirit is universal.
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Yeah.
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Like everybody. Yeah. No matter what language. And that's why he says until everyone knows about, has heard of my name and knows about me, that's when I'll come back. Because, like, it is something that everybody can understand. No matter where you come from, what language you speak.
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Speak.
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A
I love that. What is something about you that people would be surprised if you told them?
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B
I don't know. With social media now, you know what? People don't really realize that I'm really introvertish.
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Me too. I'm. I'm the biggest introvert, extrovert you'll ever meet.
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So after everything is over and I'm done, whatever, I enjoy going on my solo moments or in my car by myself or just cutting the TV off, just having me moments and me time. Because it takes a lot, people say, because I'm a Scorpio. I don't really, you know the signs like that, but it takes a lot to just, just, Just get me back.
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Yeah.
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You know, so that I can do this. So that I can do this in a pure way. So it takes a lot. So I think watching me on social media, watching me out there, you wouldn't believe that unless I said it.
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But yeah, I think as creatives, that is our outlet. That's our way to, like, get it, get all the energy out. But like, inside our homes, in our safe spaces, it's complete. Like, I'm quiet. Like, I need that time.
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Like, I love hiking and stuff because it's like my me time.
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Yes.
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And atmosphere, you know, the environment, all that. Just me and the environment. It's refueling for me.
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It is.
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I say that's the best word.
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A
No, for sure. That's so good. So you have a new song out. Make a Way. You are bridging the gap. You're blending hip hop, R and B, gospel, everything into this album. Tell me what made you want to try to kind of like, tap into those different genres?
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So I've been in LA for like the last five, six years now, and some of my friends a lot of people don't know were with Sunday Service. So a lot of them were from Chicago, from Houston. We've been friends forever.
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So, yeah, that was.
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We got together and I specifically said, you know, I know who I am, but I know where gospel music is going. So I want to create a sound that still stays true to who I am, but can go where it's going. You know, I want to do it on purpose. So we got together in a room and basically I took me out of the room and was able to listen to the different writers in the room with me. And different producers. And we came up with this concept. And anyone who really knows me know that most of my songs come from my grandmother. So my grandmother passed a few years ago, but she used to always say, you know, he's a waymaker. And so we got in the room and we're like, he gonna make a way. Make a way, make a. And that's how it all started. And then the verses came from there and all that. And I believe that even though it has different tones of R and B tones, of hip hop tones of this, the message still remains Jesus. And that's what it was all about for me.
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A
I love that. I love that. How do you feel that that is like, even, like, going in between different genres? How do you feel like that's impacting the Christian community and the gospel genre?
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B
I think it's. It is great. It is taking. And I said, you want me say this? Like, it's taking Jesus to places that we can't really always take them in our box of church. And I'm going to say that. And I looked at some other shows. Right. Even the show. Even a bet most artists have a choir behind them or something they're doing. Everyone is embracing this gospel sound beyond the four walls of the church. And we should be excited because it's taking gospel to mainstream and it's reminding people that everyone needs inspiration. That's what gospel music is.
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A
Yeah, absolutely.
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Everyone needs inspiration. And I'm excited.
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A
They're looking for it.
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B
They're looking for it. Yeah.
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A
Everyone is looking for hope. They're looking for that source of inspiration. And that's so true. That is so true. You have collabed with the great of Donnie McClurkin. Jaqueln Carr actually did a movie with her. She's so freaking talented. Love her. How do you know when you hear a song, do you hear the voice? Be like, that's Jacqueline. I need to call her. Or this is Donnie. How do you know? Like, this is the person for this song, and it's right.
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B
So I love to hear this. Right? So I started out as a songwriter. I didn't really think I could sing all the way back in the day. I could write a song.
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Right?
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But I could write a song for other people. I can hear their voice or hear them say something, and I'm writing a song for them. So, you know, I did a song with Israel before. I've done a song with, you know, just Fantasia and her mom and all this over the years, because I heard them before. I heard them basically. And Just luckily. And I thank God for this favorites that when I called them, everyone always said yes.
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Absolutely. Yeah.
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They always say yes. But being a songwriter who hears, I think has been my superpower.
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Yes.
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You know, beyond singing anything else. And I always say I'm a songwriter first.
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Okay. I love that. I love that. With all your success, how has that shifted, the way that you create music from going from that first album to now? How has it shifted?
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B
So I've been doing music, not even the first album. I'll go back to my church. I've been doing music for over about 30 years now. Right. And I've written some of the greatest church songs and other songs. So now where I am now is that I want to embrace sounds and present new writers. So in the music I'm working on now, like, I didn't write 100%. I wrote, you know, 50%. And then I'm giving other people another chance. Yeah. And not only giving them a chance, but it's also stretching me, you know, so we're helping each other. So I'm actually recording an EP right now, and I probably wrote 50% of it. One of the writers, this is his first time getting a placement. And I'm excited because I've always been like that bridge for other artists in some type of way, and I can't stop it. Like, I'm always going to bend that bridge to kind of help other artists in some way.
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A
Right. You have a foundation, the Gospel Heritage Foundation. Is that a big part of the reason why 50% of the songs were written by other people? I love that. What made you decide to create that foundation?
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So I, I, I actually took on the foundation from someone else.
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Okay.
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Dr. Therese Harrison started over 25 years ago.
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Wow.
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And it's a place that I used to go sit and learn about the industry. Right. A lot of people, you know, want to go sing at musicals, but I was in the classes about publishing, you know, class about songwriting, how to present your song to the right artist. So I believe that where we're going now and the new, the new industry, as it continues to change, there has to still be an educational platform. Not only industry, but ministry leaders as well. So that's, that's my heart for those who, who are in the industry, in the ministry. I wanted to take over Gospel Heritage so I can help bridge that gap, the next generation. And I went back to school maybe, maybe seven years ago to get my degree in music business and entertainment business so that I'm not just having a conversation, you know, I Have the knowledge to back it up and that. I don't know. I can call my professors because the industry is changing so fast, and we used to just sing a song in church. It become famous. Then we go out there. Right. Right now is that you got to understand streams. You have to understand how streams go to dollars. You have to understand it's a lot more to it that, you know, if we don't share it with those artists coming up, they're going to stay lost in a stream of streams.
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Yep.
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Yeah. So we have to share it. Yeah.
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A
I love that. Information is key, and I don't believe in gatekeeping. And one of the themes of this season is impact. That's the main theme, is just, how can we, after every episode, what impacts are we leaving on our audience? When you think about your career in the state that you are now, what is the impact that you're trying to make in the world?
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You know what? I believe that many may not remember my name. Right. But the songs that I've produced, written, and sung with lift up.
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Absolutely.
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And that's more important than my name being remembered.
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A
Yeah. Yeah.
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B
That 20 years from now, somebody's pulling up nobody greater or my worship is for real or trouble don't last always. And they're still being inspired.
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A
Right.
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And encouraged. Because that's what this journey should be all about.
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Absolutely.
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That we leave. We leave a sound that. That has long life.
- [23:06]
A
Absolutely. And you're doing that. You're doing that. If, like, if somebody doesn't know you sing, you play that song. Like, oh, I know that song. Yeah, yeah. Like, who is that? Like that. Your music? Definitely. Everybody knows it. They know. And they know your day, too. So don't think that that's so good. Gospel music is not just an art, It's a ministry. I feel like even speaking about just the state of music now, I feel like it's losing that. It's. It's becoming more of the art and people forgetting about the ministry. What is something that you do to make sure that, like, every time you're writing or singing it? Because sometimes you got different people in the room, they may be trying to take it one way, and you're like, no, we got to make sure we still keeping the gospel in it. How do you do that and balance that in the studio?
- [23:48]
B
You know, actually, it starts before the studio. You know, it's very important that. That we still. Or I still have our meditation time, my prayer time, that. That I can not allow everything in all the time, you know, because sometimes we would try to create something off of something else without it being in a spiritual place. Right, right. And I don't ever want to do that. So it starts in our prayer time and meditation time and just being focused on and sure of, of who I am, you know? You know, I, I, I did this new song, right. But it's still true to who I am.
- [24:20]
A
Yeah.
- [24:20]
B
You're not gonna see me rapping because I know I can't rap. You know what I'm saying? So, you know, but, you know, I'll eat it for others. But I still want to stay true to who I am and not neglect the call of what I was given.
- [24:30]
A
Yeah, yeah. You spoke about your grandmother being the source of your inspiration behind your songs. You lost your grandmother. How did you channel that grief in creating Chapter X?
- [24:40]
B
Wow. Well, therapy.
- [24:43]
A
First phone therapy.
- [24:44]
B
Yeah. I needed it. I know. And as much as we love God, right. When those who we love are taken from us, we still question Him. And as spiritual as I am and as much church as I've had, I still question God, why now? And my grandmother was like, my mother was a teenager when she had me, so I used to go to work with my grandmother. I was on a hip while she was working and things that sort. So that's us. And God didn't let me get there in time before she transitioned. And I was upset with him for a while, so I went to therapy. But one thing that the therapist brought back to my remembrance is that the doctor said for Sean, her heart just stopped. She didn't feel no pain. She didn't run on no machines. And the thing that her and I had a discussion, she said, I don't want to be on no machines. I won't be in nobody, you know? So everything that she wanted is just her heart just stopped. No pain. And I believe that channeling all of that, channeling from grief to overcoming it, knowing that the feelings will always be there, but you just get stronger daily. So Chapter X was about getting stronger daily. That's why the whole song, you will see the goodness in the land of the living. Right. That don't mean it's going to be today.
- [26:04]
A
Right.
- [26:04]
B
But you're going to see it as long as you live. So that's it.
- [26:07]
A
Yeah. That's so good. I love that. I love that you went to therapy. I love that as a Christian, you were allowed to feel your emotions, you know, because sometimes we say you're not supposed to question God, you know, but you, you allowed yourself to feel what you were Feeling in that moment. And then you went to therapy as a black man in this society where you guys had the weight of the world on your shoulders. Were there moments where you were carrying it or did somebody say, vashon, you need to go talk to somebody, or did you just do that yourself?
- [26:36]
B
So both things. I was carrying it. It was Covid going on. It was so many things at the same time.
- [26:42]
A
Right.
- [26:43]
B
We wasn't traveling as much. I was in my head, you know, we're doing virtual services from the house. So it's like all I had was me, my house. And. And so, yeah, it was on me for a while. I actually was watching some somebody ministry online. That's about how they had an in house grief therapist. Right. And started talking about what they do and things that sort side up. You know, that was actually my inspiration to. Oh, this is what you need. Because I found myself in this bubble and I felt like there was no way out.
- [27:12]
A
Right.
- [27:12]
B
So. So I had to. So it was both and I had to help myself get out. And I believe that even to this day, therapy was probably the best because, you know, you know, unlock some other stuff too. But it started off with grief, then it went to life. So. But, but I, I do believe that is. It is majorly important for African American males who, who have come up, especially in urban cities like Chicago. Like me.
- [27:33]
A
Yes.
- [27:34]
B
You know, my father was, was not around. You know, my mom was a teenager. And then when I did meet my father, he was, I was 35 and he's about to pass from cancer. And I'm like, why you want to meet me down now? You know what I'm saying? People know me on tv, you know, So I went through all that and didn't know that I still was processing that.
- [27:50]
A
Yes.
- [27:50]
B
That was underneath the grief.
- [27:52]
A
Right. That's a lot.
- [27:53]
B
Yeah, it was a lot. It was a lot. So I, I sit here, a whole person because of therapy, and I believe that it only gets even better as long as we continue to pour into ourselves, to fill ourselves up again. Especially those who are in ministry who always point out.
- [28:07]
A
Yes.
- [28:07]
B
Right. God gives you something to pour out. That's why he said if you lift him up, he'll do the drawing.
- [28:12]
A
Yes.
- [28:12]
B
But that means that we got to be filled up as well.
- [28:15]
A
Absolutely. What do you do to fill your cup?
- [28:17]
B
Oh, my God. Definitely spend time with God. Right. Vacation.
- [28:22]
A
Come on out.
- [28:23]
B
Vacation.
- [28:23]
A
Yeah, that's. Yeah.
- [28:24]
B
You know, I said this way is that you got to come apart before you come apart. Right. With all that we do. I think I was talking about it earlier. You know, we have church now, but we have, you know, along one service, three services, five locations. You know, you sing it five times. You know, just come apart before you come apart. And also always find something for you.
- [28:45]
A
Yeah.
- [28:45]
B
Daily.
- [28:47]
A
Daily. That's good. That's hard.
- [28:48]
B
That could be like, might as become the gym. Some people go golfing, some people play basketball, whatever that is. It is a, a lifetime, a gift to yourself.
- [29:00]
A
Yeah.
- [29:01]
B
Because we can work every day with everybody else, answer everybody calls, ask everybody a text, get everybody Instagram. But what are you doing for you, every day keeps you on the right path.
- [29:09]
A
Yeah. That's so good. What is something? Because I know for me, like you said, when you go to therapy, it starts with the thing that you're feeling initially, but then it, the onion layers just keep peeling back and you're like, whoa, I didn't know that was there. What's something that maybe you can share with us that you learned about yourself during that time that you may have suppressed so far back that you're like, wait, I didn't even realize this was still impacting me today as an adult.
- [29:32]
B
Yeah. I shared it before and I don't mind sharing it again, is that I was living in fake forgiveness. Right. My God, my biological father who had me, he lived two blocks away, never spoke to me all my life. I rolled past his house several years, I never knew it. Right. And when I met him, because I'm such a. A nonchalant person, you know, he had doors and all that. I said he was trying to explain to me why he didn't. I said, I actually stopped him. I said, I don't want to know that. I said, because I'm glad I didn't have a 16 year old father. Anyway, so I was being so strong.
- [30:05]
A
Yeah.
- [30:06]
B
I was actually covering my weakness. So from that day forth, he lived for about seven more years. And I thought I forgave him, but the more I got to know him, the more that forgiveness was fake, you know, So I had to actually deal with that and deal with how you heal from what you thought you covered.
- [30:24]
A
Yeah. Yes, I know, like crazy enough. I know exactly what you mean. That's a real thing. I never looked at it like that, but that's real. Faking forgiveness because we were like, I'm fine, I'm good, I'm good. You know, and you really not.
- [30:38]
B
You really wasn't.
- [30:38]
A
You really not. Oh my goodness. In the moments that you maybe weren't sure about, like what's next. You know, as artists, it's like, we're entrepreneurs, and it can be up and down. There's ebbs and flows. What is a scripture or a quote or affirmation that just kind of brought you back to peace and, like, it's gonna be okay.
- [30:57]
B
It's funny because it's the first scripture I ever learned. I was in the Easter play when I was a kid, and my scripture was, I can do all things through Christ. That strengthens me. That was my first scripture. But I find myself going back to that scripture at all times because it does get hard.
- [31:12]
A
Yeah.
- [31:12]
B
Entrepreneur, artist. I want to stay true to my ministry, but I own masters. I own this or that. I got to do these deals, and it gets. It gets a little muggy sometimes, but we have to always stay true to where our strength comes from, and that's what it's really about. You know, I remember the scripture, but it's like I have to know where my strength comes from. So when I'm sitting in a meeting, if it's a business meeting, I'm stronger than y', all because I know I walked in with it. Yeah. You know, if I'm writing a song, I'm bringing my strength with me.
- [31:37]
A
Yeah.
- [31:38]
B
So that's all things.
- [31:39]
A
I love that. I love that you play a huge role behind the scenes for a lot of artists mentoring Tasha Cobbs Leonard, who's actually been on our show, Anthony Brown. What is it like being a mentor and pouring into other artists?
- [31:51]
B
You know what? I think I inherited that. Tasha coughs Leonard and Anthony Brown were friends of mine, and I saw something in them that the world just needed. You know, it's not that they're doing nothing different than they were doing before. They just needed the. The push. So in producing Tasha Ka's project, you know, we even became even closer. I was executive producer with Anthony Brown. We became maybe closer, but it's mainly because it was great to mentor them and still be the person they call that mentor. But it was greater to see that I will have something to do with the next generation of gospel, too. You know what I'm saying? You know, a lot of us try to be in it for ourselves, but I think if we're not so selfish, we're able to pour into where gospel is going. It would take nothing away from where.
- [32:36]
A
We are, and that's what anything. That's. With anything. I think a lot of times we do. We start. It's like, me, me, me, me, me. But helping other people takes nothing away from what you have going on. That is so true. It's room for everybody. Speaking of the next generation, if there's any advice that you could possibly give someone who has gifts that they really haven't tapped into or they're unsure how to go about it, what advice would you give someone?
- [32:59]
B
You know what I would say, number one, know who you are in God. You know? And then number two, find out your assignment on the Earth. Right. Because as you walk out your assignment on the Earth, you define success. It don't define you.
- [33:12]
A
Yeah.
- [33:13]
B
So that's. That's. I would start there because we have so many people, even myself, that try to be everybody else. You know, but if. The day that I became very secure in who God called me to be and what I'm supposed to be doing here.
- [33:24]
A
Yes. It.
- [33:24]
B
I was able to. Even when I don't win awards and when I do, and when I. When I. When I go to a church and it's 10 people, when it's 100 people, when it's a thousand, I know that I am fulfilling what I'm called to this earth to do.
- [33:34]
A
Yes. Yeah. And that can get muddy when. When you're in a space like we are as celebrities and people who. Our livelihood thrives off of people, you know, so, like, when you. Not. When them numbers in that algorithm ain't Algorithm. And you like algorithm.
- [33:49]
B
That's a good.
- [33:52]
A
It becomes like it can play with your mind. But when you know your assignment on the Earth, it doesn't matter if it's one.
- [33:58]
B
Yeah.
- [33:58]
A
Yeah.
- [33:59]
B
And, you know, it won't always be one, but.
- [34:01]
A
But, yeah.
- [34:03]
B
I think God wants to know, how would you honor the one? How would you handle the one before? I can trust you with thousands.
- [34:08]
A
Yes.
- [34:08]
B
How would you handle the one? You know, and we don't think about that. We all want the main stage. But a lot of. A lot of how I got here was a lot of non mainstage moments.
- [34:20]
A
Same. Yeah.
- [34:21]
B
You know.
- [34:21]
A
Yeah.
- [34:22]
B
And so I appreciated the mainstage even more.
- [34:24]
A
Yes.
- [34:25]
B
I don't have to close out. I don't have to, you know, whenever you put me up first, third, whatever, is that. I appreciate the main stage because I've had some non mainstage moments for a long time.
- [34:34]
A
Yeah. You said something that reminded me of a red carpet. I was. I think it was B's Hip Hop Awards. And I was going. And my manager at the time was pulling me. She's like, we gotta go, we gotta go. And this young girl, she was a rep. She's like, crystal, Crystal, can I please interview. Can I please interview you? And she was like, we gotta get down here. I think it was like, wallow or like a big, like, activation we had to get to. And she was pulling me away. And, like, I stopped my manager. Like, hold on. I was like, let me go. I said, I need to tell her I'm coming back to her. And I said. Cause I remember what it was like when nobody didn't want to talk to me. When my publicist would go up and say, hey, I have Chris Renee Hazlett from Tyler Perry's Sisters. And they were like, oh, well, we're waiting on a bigger. It was a bigger name. I remember what that felt like. And it didn't feel good. It did not feel good. So I was like, I'm gonna go do this interview. Cause I have a time slot, but I'm gonna come back and talk to you. And the young lady ended up, like, she wanted to be an actor, ended up paying for acting school. Like, it was somebody that God pulled me back because it was something that I needed to do. The assignment on the earth. Yeah. So it was like one of those things where you have to remember what it was like not to be on the main stage. Remember what it was like when people didn't wanna talk to you and make sure you honor those people that do. Even if it is what you think is a no name or a low outlet. We're like, is anybody ever going to see this? They need that. Yeah.
- [35:49]
B
You never know why they're calling you back. That's why you said that was so great.
- [35:52]
A
I had no idea. I had no idea. And I'm really big on, like, pouring back, you know, that's one thing I did learn from Tyler, is that you always, when you're up, you make sure you're pulling people up with you. Like we had somebody on the other day and he's like, if your business starts and ends with you, it's not big enough. Like, what are you doing? Because you're not bringing nobody else up with you. You know, but the responsibility to also.
- [36:14]
B
Is to pull them up, even if they don't reciprocate it.
- [36:17]
A
Oh, yeah, it's not on you. It's not on you.
- [36:20]
B
I was telling somebody the other day, that's not on you.
- [36:22]
A
Yeah.
- [36:22]
B
Oh, I don't want to help nobody else no more. I said, you're going to cut your blessings.
- [36:26]
A
Yep. And that's exactly what happened. Yes.
- [36:29]
B
If God called you to pull them up, you pull them up. They May not ever do it back.
- [36:32]
A
No, seriously, that's so true. And I was guilty of that, too. Get out my business. I was guilty of, like Harding, my heart, when I didn't feel like the energy was being reciprocated. You didn't have to do what I did for you back, but it was just like you. You just wanted to feel appreciated, you know, and sometimes you're not going to get that. Sometimes they're not going to help you back in return, you know, when they're in a position to. And you have to be okay with that. You had that. So true. Get off my street. As I was saying in the church, get off my business. Right. That's right. Speaking of pouring into other people, why is it so important to pour back? You talk about. We live in. Your industry is about pouring, pouring, pouring, pouring. But why do you feel like it's so important to pour back into the next generation?
- [37:18]
B
Well, in anything that we do, if we don't pour to the next generation, then we're not equipping them.
- [37:24]
A
Yeah.
- [37:25]
B
You know, like they should be, you know, so we're just throwing them out there. That's why. That's what I say, like, and that's why I like. And I have to admit this, like, social media, maybe with stars and, you know, quickness and things of that sort, but they didn't go through or experience some of the things that we could have shared, you know, and so by the time they get to the roadblocks and all that, we should always feel guilty that we could have shared, you know, or at least help with the experience of the next generation. I think a lot of that is because most of us have become, like I said, too selfish, thinking that someone's gonna surpass them or do that they're supposed to surpass you. The Bible says greater works. Sure they do. You know what I'm saying? So basically, if you did great, they're gonna do greater, and then the ones out there gonna do greater, greater, greater. And it's o. Because gospel is supposed to be mainstream today. That wasn't ten years ago.
- [38:13]
A
Right.
- [38:14]
B
You know, and if we understand the pouring of that takes us as a whole, you know, and not just gospel. Take any industry. The pouring of it takes us as a whole to the next place. We'll do it more.
- [38:25]
A
Right. Absolutely. I love that. When it comes to business and how you said you set in from the foundation, you were learning about the business as you navigated this business. What are some hard lessons that you've.
- [38:37]
B
Had to learn oh, read your own contracts. Okay. How many attorneys you have? Have them show you what everything means. You know, I've. I signed something years ago that gave away all my publishing. What, on accident? Yeah. My attorney gave it to me, went through everything and didn't see the fine print that it was publishing 100. Luckily, you know, I signed the short deal. So when I got to a few hundred thousand units, they wanted to give me the loan form. So I negotiated all my publishing back.
- [39:10]
A
I know that's right.
- [39:10]
B
And ownership of my masters and other stuff. But just understanding that that could have went a whole nother way.
- [39:16]
A
Yeah.
- [39:17]
B
After all these years is just under. You know, that's part of the reason why I went back to school. Not that I want to be attorney, you know, internal attorney, but I want to understand what we're talking about.
- [39:24]
A
Yeah.
- [39:24]
B
I have very educated conversations. Not you telling me what it is. I want to understand what it is.
- [39:28]
A
What it is.
- [39:29]
B
Yeah. You know, so I just. I just educate yourself on the industry, you know, Educate yourself on anything that.
- [39:34]
A
You want to be a part of that's such. I'm the same way. Like, we have literally my contracts. We have the lawyer, line by line. Okay. What does this mean? Like, we're going through it, so I know there's no mistake about it. I know what I'm signing for. That's. That's.
- [39:46]
B
I was talking to an artist the other day. He was like, yeah, I'm out of my deal. They just had, like, two options. I said, you know what option mean right now that I'm trying to talk about. I'm not talking about you. But I had explained to him what an option meant. They can. They can exercise their option.
- [39:59]
A
Yes.
- [40:00]
B
So he didn't. He didn't know that. And not saying in a bad way mean that we just should understand what we're signing, what we get into, and how to maneuver, you know, to the best of our knowledge. You know, we don't have attorneys, but we should really know what we're signing.
- [40:13]
A
For sure. For sure. And a lot of people just like, oh, I'll just have somebody read over. Because attorney. Everything cost, you know, but you'll pay the cost in the long run if you don't.
- [40:22]
B
Absolutely.
- [40:22]
A
So just pay them the money, please. That's so true. If you could collab with anybody who is your dream collaboration.
- [40:30]
B
Oh.
- [40:32]
A
And it could be more than one person.
- [40:33]
B
All right. It'd be two. Right.
- [40:34]
A
Okay.
- [40:35]
B
It'd be to write to Timberland's tracks and have Brandi singing Crazy Crazy Crazy.
- [40:45]
A
Oh, my goodness. It's gonna happen.
- [40:47]
B
I hope so.
- [40:48]
A
It will definitely happen. It'll definitely happen. Do you see yourself or do you have your own record label?
- [40:52]
B
I do.
- [40:53]
A
You do. Okay. I was gonna ask you to see yourself starting your own, but you already have, so.
- [40:56]
B
I have, well, what we call a label today. I have an imprint with a deal with another label for music services. So basically I've been on my own for a while now. Yeah.
- [41:09]
A
How long for?
- [41:10]
B
Since 2017.
- [41:12]
A
Okay. Yeah. Okay.
- [41:14]
B
But I've always been. I like to share this, especially with artists that's watching. I've always been a revenue share artist since nobody greater. Not points artists. So basically.
- [41:23]
A
Explain that.
- [41:24]
B
So most people who signed a deal back in the day, they were getting points on each record. So like. And some of those points were just a producer.
- [41:30]
A
Right.
- [41:32]
B
Well, from the time I signed a contract for the Nobody created project, it was a percentage of the revenue, the net income.
- [41:38]
A
Yeah.
- [41:39]
B
So basically, I've always signed those type of deals.
- [41:40]
A
Smart.
- [41:41]
B
So even when those deals are over, the new deals is still like 60, 40, 70, 30 of the net.
- [41:46]
A
Right. Okay. That's smart. Because a lot of. Yeah, that's something I haven't really learned. And I do want to learn more about that as I get into music is the points. I remember back in the day when I was doing music, all I heard was points, points, points, like you get this many points on the song. But I never really understood what that meant.
- [42:02]
B
If we still had those point deals with streaming, we wouldn't.
- [42:07]
A
Oh, my goodness. Streaming. Like, how has that. I know everybody says, like, artists don't really make the money that they used to make you make. You have to go work for it. You got to go do the live touring to really recoup and get the money for the most part. How has streaming impacted the gospel industry?
- [42:22]
B
Yes and no. I'm gonna say yes or no because I'm a master owner. Streaming is. Is. It makes. I would say it makes money in my sleep. Right. New songs definitely have to kind of get attraction on it.
- [42:40]
A
Right.
- [42:40]
B
And it only pays like, you know, so much per. I mean, thousands of strings, all that. But if you're you. You are smart about it, is that you have to have your music on every platform. You have to make sure that it is encoded the right way and things that sort. It can still make sense.
- [42:56]
A
Yeah.
- [42:57]
B
It has impacted the gospel industry. Not. Not as much as people are consuming more than ever. But it. For your newer artists who are trying to get out or whatever, the space for them is not as just open.
- [43:11]
A
Right.
- [43:11]
B
It's there. You know, put that music out. But now how do we find it? Right. Where do you get to it? Because you only got so many top tens. And then because the industry is still. I don't know if I'm become an activist or not, it's still putting Christian and gospel in the same plate. Like when you go to Apple Music.
- [43:28]
A
Yeah.
- [43:28]
B
Some of our. Our stats are off a little bit. So you'll be number one in gospel on the apple chart. You're number 29.
- [43:38]
A
Right.
- [43:38]
B
Because you're in the midst of the Christian and gospel church, so there's a reason for them doing it, but.
- [43:42]
A
Okay.
- [43:44]
B
Our platform is a little bit more diluted than it was before. Outside of anything else.
- [43:48]
A
I know exactly what you're talking about, because I go always go to, like, the Christian part on Apple Music. And then you'll have, like, a gospel workout playlist, and you have a Christian workout playlist. And I'm like, oh. Like, it's two different things. But then you look at the top songs, and it's one shot. Mm. Got it. I got it. All right, so we normally do like a this or that game on the show, and today we gonna switch it up, but Sean is putting me in the hot seat to see if I remember some hymnals. It's been a long time, so we gonna see. All right, what you got?
- [44:17]
B
Okay, so it's not on here. Oh, Lord, Tis so sweet to trust in Jesus Just to take him at his word.
- [44:31]
A
You better sing it.
- [44:32]
B
Just to rest upon his promise.
- [44:35]
A
Why don't I remember the song?
- [44:37]
B
Just to know. All right, we'll go another one.
- [44:39]
A
All right, that's good, though.
- [44:40]
B
All right, cool. At the cross.
- [44:45]
A
At the cross where I first saw. Is that a different one?
- [44:50]
B
No, you're right.
- [44:50]
A
Saw the light and the burdens of my heart rolled away it was there by faith I received my sight and now I am happy all the days. Come on.
- [45:08]
B
That's how we do it. All right. All right.
- [45:11]
A
I'm gonna make you proud, mama.
- [45:13]
B
All right.
- [45:15]
A
Blessed assurance Jesus is mine. Oh, what a foretaste of glory. Divine earth you finish is the earth salvation. You go ahead and finish it.
- [45:33]
B
Purchased by God.
- [45:34]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [45:35]
B
Born of his spirit, Washed in his blood.
- [45:40]
A
That's is that. This is my story.
- [45:41]
B
Go ahead, go ahead, go ahead.
- [45:44]
A
This is my story. This is my song. Praising my savior all the day long. Is that the right note? This is my story. This is my song. Praising my savior all the day long. Is that a duet coming on? Me, me, me, me, me.
- [46:16]
B
Watch out, BB And C. All right, all right. Okay, one more. One more.
- [46:23]
A
Yeah, one more. Let's do it.
- [46:25]
B
Oh, I don't know if I know all the rest of this one to help you out.
- [46:29]
A
Okay.
- [46:31]
B
What can wash away my sins?
- [46:35]
A
Nothing but the blood I don't know. The tomb of Jesus what can make me whole again? Nothing but the blood of Jesus Come on out. Toes white as snow Name I know. Oh, nothing but the blood of Jesus Come on. She went to church. She done with the church. Raised in it. All right, all right, last one. Let's do one more. That was fun.
- [47:08]
B
All right. All right. It's not on here.
- [47:12]
A
Okay.
- [47:12]
B
Oh, we're gonna speed up just a little bit.
- [47:13]
A
All right, let's do it. Okay.
- [47:15]
B
Jesus, I'll never forget what you've done for me Jesus I'll never forget how you set me free Jesus, I'll never forget how you brought me out yes. Jesus, I'll never forget no, never all right, that's good.
- [47:34]
A
I don't remember that. Yo, I was raised Methodist.
- [47:40]
B
Oh, yes.
- [47:42]
A
So, like, I know the amazing grace in the some of them, but like, yeah, I was raised Methodist. All right, so I know this one. Hear my arms oh, cry Do I need to go up now are calling do not pass me back I'm calling you, O Lord Savior Hear my humble cry oh, that's real there's some days like that While on others thou art calling don't pass me by, Lord Because I know they call it on you okay, we need to take back to some hymnals. That was good. I'm have to pull my hymnal book out. Thank you so much. I've thoroughly enjoyed our conversation. Please tell our audience how they can keep up with you where they can download your new album, all the Things.
- [48:57]
B
Absolutely. Is it vishonmitchell.com, bashawn Mitchell Facebook, Vishon Mitchell Instagram Bishon Mitchell sometimes on Snapchat. Is all Bishon Mitchell music available streaming everywhere you stream your music. Check it out. The new song, make a Way. It's Making a Way.
- [49:10]
A
Yes. Let's get into it. Make sure you guys download it right now. Run them streams up all the things when you go on the road. We would love to support you. Yes. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. I love this. It's a great conversation. Yes. Today's Crystal's Closet. I am wearing a khaki helsa jumpsuit. My shoes are by Ferragamo. I'm wearing Bottega Veneta earrings, a Van Cleef bracelet, and yeah, this is the look. Get into it. I love this piece. From mental resilience to physical wellness, financial literacy, and spiritual alignment, this season is your invitation to step into the fullest, boldest version of yourself. We believe that impact isn't about perfection. It's about purpose, presence, and progress. Whether it's breaking generational cycles, healing from within, or building new blueprints for success, our mission is clear. To equip you with the tools, truths, testimonies that leave a lasting imprint on your journey. This isn't just a talk show or podcast. It's a movement. One conversation at a time. We are shifting mindsets, unlocking potential, and reminding you that your life was meant to make waves. Let's talk about what really changes us. And let's keep it real and always. Let's keep it positive, sweetie. With impact.
- [50:45]
B
Sam.