Growth, Grace & Starting Again.

Summary

Podcast Summary: Keep it Positive, Sweetie – "Growth, Grace & Starting Again" Host: Crystal Renee Hayslett | Guest: Keri Hilson Episode Release Date: July 5, 2026

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Overview

In this uplifting season premiere, Crystal Renee Hayslett sits down with Grammy-nominated singer, songwriter, and actress Keri Hilson to dissect the themes of growth, grace, and starting anew. The conversation dives deep into Keri’s 15-year hiatus from music, the search for personal authenticity, how purpose evolves with time, and the very real challenges of healing in the spotlight. With humor and vulnerability, both host and guest explore what it means to reclaim your voice, honor your own journey, and keep it positive—even in the messy, in-between moments.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Icebreaker: "Leave a Voicemail" Game

[05:00–07:05]

• Keri leaves heartfelt, imaginative voicemails to her younger self, her past self who left music, and her fans who waited for her return.
  • To her younger self: “You are gonna follow that dream you have, and you're gonna be so proud of yourself. Just hang in there.” [05:11]
  • To her past self: “I’m really proud of you for fighting for what you need to do… No one will understand… but only you know. So do what you need to do.” [05:40]
  • To her fans: “Thank you for encouraging me along the way. You were my light in many times of darkness and doubt… I cannot say that enough. Thank you, Keri Crew.” [06:25]

2. The Meaning Behind "we need to Talk"

[07:49–09:04]

• Keri chose the album title because the phrase is loaded with confrontation, honesty, and change.
• The album began as a conversation with a romantic partner, but became dialogues with herself, her fans, and the industry.
• “By the time you get to the third section… you hear me having this, like, moment of realization. …I’m talking—basically, like, just redeeming myself.” [08:55]

3. Why the Hiatus? Professional & Personal Reasons

[09:06–13:50]

• Keri left music at the peak of her career (after “Pretty Girl Rock”), prompted by both professional issues (a desire for creative control) and personal turmoil (ending a long-term relationship).
• “I was looking in the mirror and not seeing me anymore. …I just didn’t recognize myself and I needed to take a break. And I knew it was ballsy.” [11:48]
• She had been in the music industry since 14; by 28, after almost 15 years non-stop, she prioritized her peace and mental health.

4. Self-Discovery During the Break

[13:50–15:08]

• Keri reflected on missed formative years, reconnecting with family, and learning about herself outside music.
• “I learned who I am as a sibling, as a daughter, as a human. …I learned that I’m, I guess, more spiritual than religious.” [14:59]

5. Non-Negotiables in Relationships

[15:23–18:21]

• Keri discusses generational advice from women to tolerate men’s disloyalties, noting she refuses to accept betrayal.
• “I’m not a ride or die… I refuse. …We live and we learn and—definitely—I tried it.” [16:55]
• Host and guest reflect on how women's independence has changed relationship dynamics.

6. Navigating Success, Dating, and “Acting Broke”

[18:21–21:57]

• Success can initially attract, but later threaten, romantic partners.
• Keri shares lightheartedly about “acting broke” so as not to intimidate men and let them feel needed.
  • “I play damsel… but I can’t go as far as to ask a man for money. …I minimize who I am, what I own, what I have.” [20:28]
• Both discuss the societal pressure for women to “tone down success” in dating.

7. The Creative Process of the New Album

[22:25–24:49]

• The structure of “we need to Talk” reflects Keri’s journey: love, drama, redemption.
• She had 25+ songs but split them into three parts to accommodate today’s shorter attention spans: “...people were able to take this journey and not… never finish listening.” [24:26]

8. The Challenge of Performing vs. Creating

[28:16–30:39]

• Keri prefers creating music to performing live, now able to own her truth.
  • “I know I prefer creating the music than recreating the music on stage.” [28:54]
• Describes the technical and emotional challenges of performance, including performing through pain and technical glitches.

9. Authenticity, Vulnerability & the Cost of Perfection

[31:00–34:50]

• Both discuss how entertainers—and women in public—must learn to put on a brave face even when struggling.
• “The only thing that you can truly succeed at is being you. Eventually, it’s gonna fall off… and they’re gonna be like, ‘Ah, that’s who you really are.’” [34:00]
• Keri reflects on masking her true self in the early days versus the freedom she now feels.

10. Industry Pressures and Finding Her Own Voice

[35:36–39:00]

• Keri discusses “wearing jackets that didn’t fit,” citing song choices and album promotions that didn’t truly represent her.
• “There’s quite a few examples of that in my career… I wore jackets that didn’t fit me many times in my career.” [37:32]

11. Social Media, Public Perception & Inner Strength

[40:16–43:08]

• Reflects on the rise of social media and the impact of negative comments.
• Self-awareness, therapy, and self-love help filter out public opinion.
• “The more self-aware and the more love you have for yourself… you’re like, oh, that’s not rooted in fact. …That’s how you’re perceiving me.” [42:38]

12. Would This Version of Keri Exist Without the Break?

[44:11–45:11]

• “Yeah, the whole version… I don’t know where I’d be… but I am the most beautiful version of myself now than I was when you guys thought that I was on the top.” [45:00]

13. Managing Finances and Lifestyle During Hiatus

[45:46–47:41]

• She credits frugality with preserving financial stability during her break.
• “I’m not frivolous… I live within my means at all times.” [46:52]

14. Healing, Depression, and Returning to Music

[47:53–49:49]

• For years, Keri couldn’t even listen to music; it felt like a personal loss.
• “It was like looking at a picture of a loved one that you lost.” [49:41]
• Time, therapy, and spiritual retreats eventually restored her relationship with music.

15. Therapy and Healing Practices

[54:34–57:41]

• Healing included therapy, spiritual retreats, journaling, meditation, exploratory travel, and even psychedelic microdosing.
• She candidly addresses periods of destructive coping after personal losses but emphasizes growth and self-awareness.

16. Keri's New Purpose

[58:39–59:59]

• After all her growth, Keri’s defined purpose:
  • “To express. …To show people… what’s possible. …To be eloquent and authentic and be good, be great, be at peace.” [59:29]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On pausing at her peak:
  “I dedicated so much of my life that I knew that if I don’t do this now, I’m on a path to destruction.” — Keri Hilson [13:50]

• On growing into her own authenticity:
  "I'm not a ride or die… I refuse. …We live and we learn and—definitely—I tried it." — Keri Hilson [16:55]

• On business and self-worth:
  "Freedom was like a big thing this time around. Like, freedom, creative control… I wanted to control my own voice." — Keri Hilson [09:27]

• On the costs of success as a woman:
  “I am a homemaking type of woman… but inadequacy… for men that may not be above where I am… that’s when it becomes a curse.” — Keri Hilson [19:44]

• On expressing vulnerability:
  "But when we are able to express authentically, like, I'm not okay today… People, I think, gravitate." — Keri Hilson [33:38]

• On purpose and impact:
  “My purpose is what it always has been, and that's to express… to show people what's possible.” — Keri Hilson [58:55]

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Important Timestamps

• 05:00–07:05: "Leave a Voicemail" icebreaker
• 09:06–13:50: Keri details why she left music, her personal crisis, and the cost of success
• 18:21–21:57: Discussion on how success affects dating and self-presentation
• 22:25–24:49: Creative process and album structure
• 28:16–30:39: The realities of performing live
• 31:00–34:50: The necessity of authenticity in today's entertainment landscape
• 35:36–39:00: Navigating industry pressures and reclaiming her narrative
• 54:34–57:41: Discussion on therapy, healing practices, and personal growth post-hiatus
• 58:39–59:59: Keri articulates her renewed sense of purpose

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Tone & Language

True to the essence of Keep It Positive, Sweetie, this episode is candid, empathetic, often humorous, and deeply inspirational. Both host and guest meet vulnerability with strength and emphasize the beauty of personal growth, authenticity, and faith through the highs and lows of public life.

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Final Takeaway

Keri Hilson’s journey is a testament to the necessity—and courage—of stopping, reflecting, and embracing reinvention with grace. This episode offers encouragement to anyone facing turning points: Trust your timing, honor your true self, and remember, healing and growth take courage…but always keep it positive, sweetie.

Transcript

[Keri Hilson]

This is an iHeart podcast.

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[Chris Renee Hazlett]

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[Chris Renee Hazlett]

When Kohler, global design leader in luxurious kitchen and bath products, asked me to be their ambassador for timeless, elegant, durable

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[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Soon after, I was in their Kohler, Wisconsin foundry watching molten iron poured enamel applied by hand, and the beautiful finished pieces ready to ship. Since 1883, Kohler cast iron has been crafted by incredible artisans, and seeing it firsthand gave me a whole new appreciation for their craftsmanship. Now I'm proud to lend my stamp of approval to my favorite Kohler cast iron products for their durability, beauty and enduring style. Shop my curated [e-mail] as the Kohler cast Iron Ambassador, I say long live Cast Iron, calling all my sweeties to the forefront. I'm your host, Chris Renee Hazlett, and this is the Keep It Positive Sweetie Show. Welcome to Keep It Positive, Sweetie, the place where we heal, grow and learn together through honest conversations. I am so excited because today we are kicking off season 12 and this season we are centering everything around one word, purpose. Not just finding it, but trusting it. And I couldn't think of a better person to help us start that conversation. And I'm so glad to be sitting with Carrie Hilson. Today's guest is a Grammy nominated singer, songwriter, actress, and creative whose artistry has left an undeniable mark on music. From unforgettable hits like Knock youk Down, Pretty Girl Rock, and turning me on to writing songs for some of the biggest artists in the industry, she's built a career defined by talent, versatility, and authenticity. And now she's ushering in a new era with we need to Talk, her first studio album in 15 years. Released in three distinct chapters, the project invites listeners to conversations about healing, purpose, and reclaiming your voice on your own terms. Sweeties, please give a very warm welcome to the one and only Keri Hilson. Keri, thank you so much for stopping by.

[Keri Hilson]

Thank you.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Girl, we've been trying to get you over here for so long. I feel like we changed the date, like five times. That's how I know it's gonna be good.

[Keri Hilson]

Yes.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

It's gonna be really, really good. I'm so excited. I met you a few years ago. We were doing a series that BMW had called Uncorked.

[Keri Hilson]

Exactly.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

And immediately we hit it off. It was an instant connection. And I just loved your story and hearing about who you are and, like, how you got to where you were. There's a really cool event that we did and I haven't really gotten to see you much because Instagram keeps you in touch.

[Keri Hilson]

I feel like I see you every

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

time, all the time. Right. So I'm so happy to have you here. You have new music out, which we're going to talk about. But before we get into that, I want to play a little game just to break the ice.

[Keri Hilson]

Okay.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

So your new album is called we need to Talk. So we're going to play a game called Leave a Voicemail. Okay.

[Bethenny Frankel]

Yes.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

So I'm going to give you little scenarios or people to leave a voicemail to, and you just gonna. The first thing that comes to mind, leave a quick voicemail.

[Keri Hilson]

Okay.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

You ready?

[Keri Hilson]

All right.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

All right. Voicemail number one, your younger self.

[Keri Hilson]

Oh.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

First voicemail is to little Carrie. Leave her a message.

[Keri Hilson]

Hey, Carrie. It's gonna be a beautiful and wild ride, but you are gonna follow that dream you have, and you're gonna be so proud of yourself. Just Hang in there.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

I love that. Voicemail number two, Leave a voicemail for the version of yourself that made the decision to step away from music.

[Keri Hilson]

In real time or in hindsight.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Hindsight.

[Keri Hilson]

Okay. Carrie, I'm really proud of you for fighting for what you need to do. Follow your heart, be authentic to your needs. No one will understand. Absolutely no one. You're going to lose some people that work with you. You're going to lose some fans. You're going to. No one's going to understand. Everyone's going to question you, but only you know. So do what it is you need to do. I'll see you on the other side of this.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

So good. So good. Voicemail number three. This is the last one.

[Keri Hilson]

Okay.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Leave a voicemail for your fans who waited all these years for new music.

[Keri Hilson]

Carrie Crew, thank you for sticking it out. Thank you for caring. Thank you for encouraging me along the way. You were my light in many times of darkness and doubt, and I thank you for that. I thank you for defending me. I thank you for every comment, every request, every post, every ticket you've bought, every. Every like you've tapped. Thank you. I don't take your granted, your support for granted. It means the world to me, and you are a big motivator for me. So thank you. I can. I cannot say that enough. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Carrie Crew.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

That is beautiful. I love that. Carrie.

[Keri Hilson]

Thank you.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

So good. Thank you for playing along with me.

[Keri Hilson]

Yeah, that was fun. I was like, oh, we gonna start off with some potential tears.

[Bethenny Frankel]

Here we go.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

That second one.

[Keri Hilson]

Kind of gotta cry. Yes.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

That was good. I love it. So let's get into it. We need to talk. Let me tell you something. When I'm in a relationship and I hear those two words, it don't matter. Your friendship, relationship, whatever it is, I

[Keri Hilson]

was like, oh, gosh, gotta brace yourself.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Ooh. I'm like, what are you talking about? What happened? Yeah.

[Keri Hilson]

You know what? I've only ever been the person to say it.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Really?

[Keri Hilson]

I've never been with a man that's like, we need to talk.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah.

[Keri Hilson]

It's never happened, so I don't know what being the receiver of it is.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

What it feels like.

[Keri Hilson]

Yeah.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah.

[Keri Hilson]

I do not know.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

That is so funny.

[Keri Hilson]

Yeah.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

So when you came, when you landed on that as your title, I want to ask you, who was the conversation originally for? Was it for yourself, was it for your listeners, or was it for the industry?

[Keri Hilson]

It was all. All of the above.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Okay.

[Keri Hilson]

And I'm adding another one. It was for the Person I was dating.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Wow.

[Keri Hilson]

Yeah. Yeah. The album is about that person.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah.

[Keri Hilson]

But I use that. Well, it was about multiple things about that person. It was about my own journey of love, drama, redemption.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yes.

[Keri Hilson]

It's kind of like a double entendre of a story.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah. You take us on a ride.

[Keri Hilson]

Yes, yes, yes. So it's. It's. It was just. I said it in the phone call on the album, which. Those calls are real. It's one phone call, actually.

[Bethenny Frankel]

Yes.

[Keri Hilson]

But it's real. And I say it on the phone call and that's what sparked the title. And then I was just like, oh, actually, I'm talking to my fans for the first time in a long time. I'm talking to myself. Like, I'm you literally by the time you get to the third section. Yeah. You hear me having this, like, moment of realization.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah.

[Keri Hilson]

While on that call. And I'm talking basically like, just redeeming myself.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah. You know, affirming yourself. Yeah. That was real. So.

[Keri Hilson]

Yeah. It's to everybody.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

I love that. So when did you know this is time? You said it was a bad relationship originally. You were talking to that person. When did you know it was time to make a new album and that this was the topic that you wanted to touch on?

[Keri Hilson]

I've been knowing it was time to make an album for some time now. It was so overdue.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yes.

[Keri Hilson]

Like, I didn't intend for the break to be that long, but I did have some business to handle. Freedom was like a big thing this time around. Like, freedom, creative control. I'm not the young girl I used to be when I entered this industry.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Right.

[Keri Hilson]

Yeah. So I wanted to control my own voice. I wanted to.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah.

[Keri Hilson]

Present myself to the world the way that I knew that in a way that I could stand by finally.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah.

[Keri Hilson]

In a way that represents me wholly, fully, authentically.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yes.

[Keri Hilson]

And in a way that I could finally feel a hundred percent proud of who I'm showing to the world. And not in a fake way.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Right.

[Bethenny Frankel]

Yeah.

[Keri Hilson]

And not in a force way. Not in a, you know.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Exactly.

[Keri Hilson]

No other cooks in the kitchen.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Right.

[Keri Hilson]

I felt like I deserved that. So that's what kind of made it a long process.

[Bethenny Frankel]

Yeah.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

It was like 15 years.

[Keri Hilson]

Yes.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Wow. Take us through that journey. Because I remember when you hit the scene you hit, you had the heavy hitters on your songs. The every song was popping, charted. You were killing it. What made you just take a step back and say, hey, this is. I need to sit down, you know, because this is like you were on a roll yeah, yeah. And we were loving it. So when I think 15 years, I'm like, girl, I need the music.

[Keri Hilson]

I know. And I'm grateful a lot of people did feel that way because it still goes.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Your stuff still plays today.

[Keri Hilson]

It does.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Like your old stuff still plays. Yeah, Like I get the reports and

[Keri Hilson]

I'm like, yeah, the whole while I was away, I would like, see the reports and I'm like, really? Yes, it's really cool. Because that's not a guarantee.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

It's not.

[Keri Hilson]

That is not a guarantee. So just, you know, that would put like an extra battery in my back. But the reason for the break was both professional and personal.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Okay.

[Keri Hilson]

I was leaving an 11 year relationship and that was really difficult. And it was at the height of everything. It was literally pretty girl rock was like, could not. It was like, could not have been higher. Right. That and professionally I just kind of felt like, okay, I just gotta sit down, I gotta take a step back. I was kind of not myself. I was, I say on the album, I was looking in the mirror and not seeing me anymore.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Right.

[Keri Hilson]

That's.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

We've been there.

[Keri Hilson]

That's literally what it was like. I just didn't recognize myself and I needed to take a break. And I knew it was ballsy. I knew it was risky. Yes, Very, very risky.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah.

[Keri Hilson]

But I also felt that I. There was no, there was not going to be a way around it.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah.

[Keri Hilson]

I was just going to keep going on a downward trajectory. I could have turned to drugs. I could have gone, you know, life could have gone so many directions had I not snatched me back at the time.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

So to have the wherewithal to know, like, I need to take a step back because you're young, you're hitting, you got. They say you got to strike while the iron's hot. You were striking, you know, so to be able to say, no, I need to take a moment. Because it could have led down, especially at a young age. You saw impressionable. I know you had been in the industry for a while, writing and had been your own group and you had, you had, I guess you still had experience. So you weren't new to it, even though we were.

[Keri Hilson]

You were new to knowing me. Exactly. And so that's what people don't understand, I think about the break is that I was in the industry since I was 14 years old. So when I took that break at what, 28 years old.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah.

[Keri Hilson]

I was already in the game for almost 15 years, non stop, you know, through college, through high school, through, like literally not my first deal happened on my senior trip at 17 years old.

[Bethenny Frankel]

Wow.

[Keri Hilson]

So, you know, and I was in that group from 14 to 18 and then we did another group, you know, and throughout school. So I didn't really have, in a sense, I didn't really have the teenhood, the childhood.

[Bethenny Frankel]

Yeah.

[Keri Hilson]

My life was early on dedicated to music and then writing. And then right then I came out and it's like, okay, yeah, I know I'm only a couple years in and no one's understanding, but I dedicated so much of my life that I knew that if I don't do this now, I'm on a path to destruction. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

No, that's real. What did you learn about yourself during that time? I feel like since you missed those teen. Those are formative years.

[Keri Hilson]

Yeah.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

You know, so taking that time off, what did you learn about yourself then? So much.

[Keri Hilson]

I learned who I am as a sister.

[Commercial Announcer]

Yeah.

[Keri Hilson]

I lost a lot of time with my family. I was right. Dedicating so much of my time, you know, I was missing a lot of things. Trips and graduations and birthdays and all the important things. Deaths, funerals. I missed, you know, it was things going on. So I learned who I am as a sibling, as a daughter, as a human. I learned who I am as a young lady. I guess at the time, you know, I had to learn like what I want in relationship, what I don't want in relationship. Like, I had to experience those for sure. I haven't had that many relationships in my life, so still. But definitely then. Yeah, yeah, it was just. I learned a lot. I learned that I'm, I guess more spiritual than religious, you know.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah.

[Keri Hilson]

So much, so much. It was, it was a period truly of exploration for sure. Yeah, yeah. I went deep inside.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

That's good. That's good. And sometimes you need. I feel like sometimes it's important to do that, take those steps back to really like explore who you are, find out what you like, what you don't like. Going back then what are some of your non negotiables that maybe Carrie then would have like dealt with, but now

[Keri Hilson]

you're like, no, a lot, actually. Okay, so they. In relationship, you mean? Yeah, in relationship. I think there was a period of time. Have you ever, I'm sure as a woman you've encountered some disloyalties?

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yes.

[Keri Hilson]

Cheating? No.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Absolutely.

[Keri Hilson]

I just will lump it into disloyalties.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Okay.

[Keri Hilson]

For the sake of this conversation at this point, but I think if you talk to older women and women who have been married for A long time. And grandparents and things like that, like, they'll tell you all men do that. You just got to learn to turn a blind eye, keep the peace.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yep. Our grandmothers say that.

[Keri Hilson]

Yes. And so. Right. I hear, I hear the choir over there is like, but so, so when you first encounter that, that, that's kind of the feedback you're getting from women that you're consulting or with. And. Yeah, I, I tried. Like, that was literally like, me just like, oh, my God. Okay, well. But it doesn't, it doesn't feel good at all. It's betrayal. It's like, yeah, you know, let's call

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

it what it is.

[Keri Hilson]

Yes, it's betrayal. Like, but so how am I supposed to forgive that? How am I supposed to turn a blind eye? How am I supposed to be peaceful and quiet? So I just learned. Yeah, I'm not a ride or die. I, I, I'm not that, if that's what that means.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Right.

[Keri Hilson]

I feel like I am in a lot of other ways.

[Bethenny Frankel]

Yeah.

[Keri Hilson]

But that's one I just refuse.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah.

[Keri Hilson]

I refuse. And I think, you know, we live and we learn and definitely I tried it.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yes. I think we've, I have been told the same thing. I've been told that when you got to pick your battles.

[Keri Hilson]

Yeah.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

So to speak, you know, and pick your poison and like, are you getting 80% of what you want out of this? And that's just one thing that I can't stomach. I'm like, I, I tried it. I, you know. No.

[Keri Hilson]

And, you know, I think if I were the type of woman that maybe needed financial provision.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yes.

[Keri Hilson]

If you were providing that and I was in need of that, maybe I could then kind of, I guess, take that easier. Yeah, I get. Because I can understand that from that perspective. Like our grandparents and our great grandparents, they were being taken care of. So, like, what could they say? They couldn't get a house alone on a house. They couldn't, like, drive for a time. They couldn't vote. Like, they, some of them couldn't work. So I guess that depends on where you are and what region. What region and age era we're talking about. But yeah, like, we were in, we as women were in need of men for a very long time. And I think that has some trickle effect into the advice we're getting from the elders still.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah. Yes.

[Keri Hilson]

But now we don't need financial provision. And we literally, we just need you to be good to us. We need you to be good as

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

a public figure and a woman who's been Successful basically all your life. Has it been hard, like, finding. Because I know I'm new to this part of my life. As far as, like, being in the public eye and the complications when it comes to dating. Has that been something that's always been a struggle for you? Being like. Because you've always had it together financially? When we speak of, like, not needing

[Keri Hilson]

a man for that, I. I don't know. Like, sometimes I feel like it's what attracts a man to me initially. Initially. Right. But then it becomes something that is a. The blessing turns into a curse at some point. I'm still trying to understand that because I'm like, well, I thought you. You know what I mean? I thought you. But, yeah, I got to be busy. Yeah. I'm not going to be here. And no, I'm not cooking tonight. Like, I gotta pack for my flight, you know.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Right.

[Keri Hilson]

So I guess. And I am a really giving. I am a homemaking type of woman. Like, I am cooking a lot. I am cleaning. I am, you know, organ, you know, decorating and arranging the home and doing all the things, serving. Right. I love that.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah.

[Keri Hilson]

But. And I don't really know what I think I've run into kind of is a sense of inadequacy for men that may not be above where I am.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah.

[Keri Hilson]

I think that's when it became the curse for those guys that kind of weren't where they wanted to be in their walk or finances or career. And so I think that's when I've encountered the kind of the turmoil of a man. You know, you can kind of see and hear that spilling into our. Our conversations. Yeah. So I think it's good, but it's also, like, it feels like a curse at times.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah, it does. Have you found the balance of that?

[Keri Hilson]

No. What I do is like, I pretend I ain't got.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Ah.

[Keri Hilson]

I pretend this is what I'm doing. Like, I'm not.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

That's so good.

[Keri Hilson]

I just act broke. I just. I'm like. I play damsel.

[Bethenny Frankel]

Yes.

[Keri Hilson]

You know, I can't go as far. I think they love a damsel, but I can't go as far as to ask a man for money. Right. I just ain't got it in me. I've never been, you know, but anything. I just act like I ain't got it. I just. That's all I got. I'm not buying. Like, if I'm starting to date someone, I'm not going out and buying my dream car. You know what I mean? I'm not. I Might hold off on moving homes. Like, upgrading my light. Like, no, I want to let him feel like he can do that for me. So I try to. I do kind of minimize who I am, what I own, what I have. You know, I don't tell them about certain things. That's all I got so far. That's all I got is like, let me just try that. Let me.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

So funny you said it, because when I moved into the house I'm in now, a friend of mine's mother was like, are you really going to, like, move into that big house? You're never going to find a man, Literally, is what she told me. And I was like, well, I'm this age and, like, I'm not waiting on somebody. What if that person never comes? I'm going to get the house.

[Keri Hilson]

I'm going to get the car and enjoy my life. I'm supposed to just, like, not enjoy my life.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah, but you might be onto something, Carrie.

[Keri Hilson]

I mean, you got to act like you struggling to pay the bills or something. Like, it's got to be something to it. I'm trying to figure this out.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

No, for sure. That is hilarious. So you went through that. You go through everything to come up with this album. It's like, now it's time. You knew it was time and you wrote it. We talked about you writing it in three stages. It's three parts, and you got to add another, a fourth part to it. I wanted to know, how did you come up with that? What was the whole process to getting to where we are now? Because we're bringing it back to present time. I just wanted to know how you got through that hiatus and how we got here.

[Keri Hilson]

Okay. Well, that phone call really informed how the album was broken down.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

This is the one where you were saying. She showed me the pictures and.

[Keri Hilson]

Yes, yes. Yeah, yeah. Love, drama, redemption was literally kind of the way that relationship went, the way my career went. So breaking it down kind of made all the sense in the world. Yeah, there were, like, literal turning points in the phone call, the same way they were turning points in my career. So I just. Yeah, that was easy to determine.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah. No, for sure. Yeah.

[Keri Hilson]

And then how we. What was the second part? You said how we got here?

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah, like, we gave. You gave us the backstory of, like, what happened during that 15 years. I wanted to bring it back to present day. Like, how did you even even, like, decide to do a three part? Oh, yeah, I wanted to kind of get the backstory. Yeah.

[Keri Hilson]

So being gone so long, you know, that Your fans are waiting for.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

You got to give them something.

[Keri Hilson]

You got to give them something.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

And not just. No. Seven songs.

[Keri Hilson]

Yes. And exactly that. It was exactly that. I was like. I actually had more like 26 at

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

1.5 Chris Brown album.

[Keri Hilson]

Yeah, it was about to be that. It was about to be that. And before we broke it up, it was 25.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

26 songs. I can imagine. Especially European Game. I already know you have records for days.

[Keri Hilson]

Yeah. And there are more that. That weren't gonna make this one, but are already prepared for the next couple projects. But, yeah, I just knew I wanted to give them enough. Obviously, I. I care about quality, but I also knew that I owed them quantity.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yes. Yeah.

[Keri Hilson]

So I was like, well, let's do this. But the. The attention spans are very different. Let's break it up.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Ooh. Definitely.

[Keri Hilson]

Because the album already had its scenes, you know?

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah.

[Keri Hilson]

But it was like, let's just release this and let them digest. First part, digest second part, digest third part. It doesn't matter. They're lopsided. Like, the first one is the longest, the second one is the next. You know, the third one's kind of short.

[Bethenny Frankel]

Yeah.

[Keri Hilson]

But that didn't matter as much as making sure that, you know, people were able to take this journey and not. Because I know with longer albums, sometimes I never get all the way through.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah.

[Keri Hilson]

Like, sometimes I'm intending to and something happens or a phone call or whatever. And I never finished listening to that. So I understand that.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

And it could be a great body of work. You just don't make it through.

[Keri Hilson]

Finish that album.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Right.

[Keri Hilson]

Two years ago.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Right. That's me with books. Sometimes I'd be like, same. Yeah, I gotta go back to that.

[Keri Hilson]

I gotta get back to that.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

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[Keri Hilson]

Yeah, no, I don't need to.

[Bethenny Frankel]

I don't understand.

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[Keri Hilson]

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[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Whoa.

[Commercial Announcer]

I don't trust my carrier that much.

[Keri Hilson]

We'll just use your phone as a flashlight.

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[Chris Renee Hazlett]

I wanted to ask you. You're back on the road now, performing. You were at Essence Festival last year.

[Keri Hilson]

Yes.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

And you just said you had a show. What do you love more? Because you're a writer, you're a singer, but you're also a performer. You like the stage or the studio better.

[Keri Hilson]

I used to not answer this question.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Really?

[Keri Hilson]

I used to not answer it because I felt like I was betraying, like, people that buy tickets or fans or whatever by saying my. But I'm. And also, I may not have realized the full truth.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah.

[Keri Hilson]

Now I know I prefer creating the music than recreating the music on stage.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Really, I do. Yeah.

[Keri Hilson]

I finally came to that resolve, like, in the past couple years. Like, actually, I do have an honesty, an honest answer. Yeah. I used to say I can't choose. You know, I like them both. And I do like things about performing also.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Right.

[Keri Hilson]

But it's. It's Curveball City. It's sleep deprivation. It's performing at your worst often, you know.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah. People don't think about that.

[Keri Hilson]

Yeah. Like, it's a lot of factors.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

What has been, like, the hardest, like, day that you had to suck it

[Keri Hilson]

up and get on stage all the time? I mean, it's. I can't even point one out to you. It happens a lot of the time. You know, we're not always. Usually we're not at our best.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah.

[Keri Hilson]

And then two, there's other factors going on. It's a whole technical thing, so that you can give your best show. There's so many components to putting on a live show. Your monitors, your in ears, the paddles for the receivers for your pack. And. You know what I mean? Then your wardrobe didn't stay in your pack. Oh, right. I can't even find the button right there. Yes. I can't find the volume. I can't reach there because my outfit. I got it on my bra and my arm is barely. Yeah. But I can't hear. And then when I go to front of stage, front of house.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Oh, my God.

[Keri Hilson]

It's feeding back into my mic and it's making everything phase out like static.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

And you gotta.

[Keri Hilson]

The other day, I had static the whole time on stage. My pack was giving my ears, so I had to kind of loosen this one.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah.

[Keri Hilson]

I eventually had to come all the way out of that one to try to hear, but there's still static. Yeah. So I was, like, feeding off of the stage monitors, which are also too loud. So now I'm getting feedback in the mic. Like, it's just so many things that can affect.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yes.

[Keri Hilson]

You know, and you're all amped before you go.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah.

[Keri Hilson]

You get on stage and you're like. It's like. Like your mood is like, oh, my God, I want to fight somebody, and I don't know who to fight.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

So you, like. So we're gonna take it out on this stage.

[Keri Hilson]

Okay. Now you're doing the dance moves all extra hard because you're pissed.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

That is hilarious. But it's so true. I had a moment when I was first starting the podcast. I was in a relationship, and I was going through a breakup, and I was crying in my closet before a guest had come. It was Eva, Eva Marcel. And I just remember, like, as soon as I got off the phone, I started crying, and then I was like, gotta suck it up, girl. You got an interview to do. And then I end up breaking down in the interview because it was just, like, one of those moments that we were having. Yeah. And that was a moment for me where I wasn't in a great space, but I had to get on camera and be like, all right, welcome to keep it positive, sweetie. Like, and I was not feeling positive or sweet.

[Keri Hilson]

Okay.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

You know, and I think a lot of times, as women, our people, like, who look up to us don't see that, especially as people. Performers, and people have to. To put on, you know, at certain times. So I totally get it. And hats off to you.

[Keri Hilson]

Thank you for still doing it, you know, to do this. Like, anybody that does any level of entertainment understands what it takes behind the scenes.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah.

[Keri Hilson]

Understands that stuff could just not be right. Stuff could not be good in your heart, your head. And you literally have to compartmentalize, like, defragment yourself.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah.

[Keri Hilson]

And, like, put the 30 you have into that day.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Right.

[Keri Hilson]

You know, or the hundred percent of the 30 capacity. You have that, right.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Exactly. Yeah.

[Keri Hilson]

But I remember. I remember having. I was on a European tour, and I was crying on stage while going through that 11 year breakup.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah.

[Keri Hilson]

I was. I had never found myself crying during. I was crying during the song Hustler on my first.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah.

[Keri Hilson]

And I was crying during that song every. Without fail, every night. Like, oh, cried in Germany, cried in Austria, cried in Sweden, cried in Norway, cried, like, literally the whole way through.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Right.

[Keri Hilson]

And it was that. That particular song, every. A certain point in that song.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Every time. Yeah.

[Keri Hilson]

Like, after one time, my sound guy was even crying. He's like, you choke me up every night.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Oh, my gosh.

[Bethenny Frankel]

Yeah.

[Keri Hilson]

But, yeah, I mean, this is real and this is expression.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yes.

[Keri Hilson]

And then we learn, like, it's good to do it because we're, like. When we're able to, we don't let them see it, you know? It's not that they can't see.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Right.

[Keri Hilson]

Or don't. It's not only that they can't or don't. It's that we wall up.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yep.

[Keri Hilson]

When we are most vulnerable, we kind of mask.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah. For sure.

[Keri Hilson]

You know? And it's part of it. But also, I think when we are able to express.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah.

[Keri Hilson]

Authentically, like, I'm not. I'm not okay today.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah. I'm human. It shows your humanity, too.

[Keri Hilson]

And people, I think, gravitate. I think that's why people love you so much, because you are so, like, grounded and real, you know?

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah.

[Keri Hilson]

Like, we don't ever feel like crystals. Like.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Right.

[Keri Hilson]

Not a performative type.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Right. No.

[Keri Hilson]

You're entertaining still, but it's not rooted there.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

It's right.

[Keri Hilson]

Rooted and grounded and.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yes. Yeah. Because I've learned. I learned very fast. Like, entering this space, the only thing that you can truly succeed at is being you. Eventually, it's gonna fall off. Whatever you're faking to be is gonna fall off, and they're gonna be like, ah, that's who you really are. And it could be the good or bad, you know? Yeah. So hoping that the real you is something like. No, we actually love this. Why were you trying to be something else anyway? Or. Oh, girl, pick it back. Pick the mask back up. Because. Right.

[Keri Hilson]

And so some people don't even get a chance to put the mask back on.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Right.

[Keri Hilson]

Things go awry.

[Bethenny Frankel]

Yeah.

[Keri Hilson]

When you're pretending like, we see it every day. We do the cancel culture. And, like, you make one wrong move, one wrong sentence.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yes.

[Keri Hilson]

It could be over for you.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

No. For sure.

[Keri Hilson]

So it is scary. I understand why people feel like I was there.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

You know what I mean? Yeah.

[Keri Hilson]

We come in feeling like, okay, there's, I think, a subconscious fear that I'm not enough. That who I am and as I am may not be acceptable because we are trying to please masses, you know?

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yes.

[Keri Hilson]

And that's a. Your people that are handling your career make you painfully aware that you have to be well liked.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yes.

[Keri Hilson]

You know, And. And people want to like your music. They want to come to your show. They want to see an interview. You Know.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah.

[Keri Hilson]

So you're like, okay. Oh, God. So let me turn my dial of me down to, like, two. You know, I want to appear authentic, but I also am feeling, like, super vulnerable and.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah.

[Keri Hilson]

Performing.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

At what point in your career did you feel like? I know in the music industry, they try to create the artists that they want to see or that they feel is going to pop for this moment in time.

[Keri Hilson]

Yeah.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

At what point in your career did you feel like. Well, I don't. I'm not feeling like Carrie right now,

[Keri Hilson]

early on. So. There were initially. There were some songs that I felt like. I don't think this represents where I was wanting to go with this album, you know, And I definitely don't think, A, I don't think it should make the album, and B, I don't think it should be a single.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah.

[Keri Hilson]

So now I gotta shoot a video for this song. I don't even like. And I don't think represents me well. And never. I don't like the lyrics. I don't. I. This does not represent who I am. Like, there's so many. There's quite a few examples of that in my. In my particular career.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

What song? I'm curious to know. Oh, gosh.

[Keri Hilson]

There's a few. There's a few. Energy would be one of them. I think Breaking Point would be another one. Return the favor. Let's see. Change me. Hated it.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Really hated it.

[Keri Hilson]

You probably even know it. It's with Akon. Yeah.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

I love that song.

[Keri Hilson]

You do not.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

I did. I did. I love that song.

[Keri Hilson]

Hated it. I mean, and I didn't hate Energy or Breaking Point. I didn't hate them, but I felt like they weren't. They were both first on my album. First Energy was first on my first album. Breaking Point was first single of my second album. Yeah, this is ass backwards. We have way better.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Because you knew what you had.

[Keri Hilson]

Yeah. I knew I had knocked you down. I knew I had pretty rock on. No boys allowed. Like, it was like, come on, y', all, man, this is ridiculous.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

And did you feel like you had a voice in that moment?

[Keri Hilson]

Not as much, you know? Yeah, not as much. And then, of course, the way you love me and the turning me on remix, that was pointless. It was, you know.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah.

[Keri Hilson]

So I. I feel like I wore jackets that didn't fit me many times in my career. I felt like that a lot. And it wasn't until me taking a break that I felt strong enough to even reveal that.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah.

[Keri Hilson]

I'm just now talking about that, really, in the song. Space.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah.

[Keri Hilson]

But I did not feel strong enough to say, I haven't been showing you guys me.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah.

[Keri Hilson]

Until I started doing interviews from the Valley. And that's when I felt strong enough and self assured, enough self aware. I didn't have the handlers in my picture anymore.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah. So this is the freedom you're talking about. I felt free.

[Bethenny Frankel]

Yeah.

[Keri Hilson]

I felt free enough to be authentic again. And then it was like an uphill battle because people are like, well, that ain't what you said five years ago. You know what I mean?

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Right.

[Keri Hilson]

It was. People don't let you live things down.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

They don't.

[Keri Hilson]

So you don't always get the opportunity to grow and to show people, like, to keep. I just. I just. I felt like if I. If you can go with me through this vision, because I had a literal vision of this. I was walking in this vision. I won't. I won't say where I was walking to. That's beside the point. But I was literally walking. You know that period between sleep and wake.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yes.

[Keri Hilson]

When you have. You literally see things. Well, I do.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah.

[Keri Hilson]

And I was like, pulling off garments of clothes. I was like, dropping. I had things in my hands and I was just dropping and I kept walking and I. Things would appear in my hands and I was just like, okay, gotta put that down. Okay. And I would take off another layer of clothing. Like, I had all these layers of clothes and, like hat and things in my hands that would just appear. And I just. It was like walking down a road and just shedding. And I had that vision about. I think it was like 20, 21 maybe. I was like, oh, that's what I've been doing. It struck me. I woke up in tears and I didn't understand why until I reflected on that vision. And I just was like, oh, that's what I've been doing. Doing. That's what I've been doing. And all these things that I didn't know that I was carrying, they would just appear in my hand and I'd be like, don't want that, don't want that. Don't need this. Don't know. Don't even know why I'm dropping it or why it's there or what it is. But I. Some was given to me. Some was, like, imposed upon me.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah.

[Keri Hilson]

Some things were perceptions that I inherited from people. Chatter.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah.

[Keri Hilson]

Comments and posts and all the things, you know.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah. Social media was kind of just taking off as your career was exploding because you were out of this world. But I remember, like, Twitter Just came. Facebook was around, but like Twitter was coming around at that time, so people were. That's when people. We started tweeting our thoughts.

[Keri Hilson]

Yes, yes.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Opinions and opinions. Right. I remember that. So I can imagine for you to be at the front end of that. I know what it was like for me. We were just, Me and Ashanna were just talking about. She's like, how do you like get through like what people say online sometimes? And like, does it hurt your feelings? I'm like, absolutely. You know, there's still times where I may see something, but I'm able to like brush it off faster than I used to be. I would sit in it and I was like, but you don't. They don't know me. And I feel like I need to respond. So I can imagine what that was like for you then. Really, like trying to navigate this new career and then being at the pinnacle of people speaking their mind. Yeah, yeah.

[Keri Hilson]

And I was last, for some reason I was at a, in an interview with Angie Martinez who was like, you need a Twitter. I was like, I didn't really know what it was, but I wasn't really a social media person like that because there was MySpace and there was. I had never. I still haven't ever been on Facebook. I have a page.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Wow.

[Keri Hilson]

Continue to follow that, please. But I did MySpace and I was into it, you know. Yeah, to a degree. But I was like, oh, there's more things to do now. Like, yeah, oh, gosh, I'm trying to write. I'm in this session right now. I gotta, you know, So I kind of became anti in like a year or two into it. She was like, you still don't have a Twitter page? And I'm like, no. God.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

And I was late to the party on all those, like late years.

[Keri Hilson]

Late to Instagram. Yes, same. Yeah, all of it.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

We're not followers. It takes a while. Yes.

[Keri Hilson]

I'm like, oh, you got to force me. You have to twist my arm. And that's exactly, exactly how it happened.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah.

[Keri Hilson]

And had she not said it on air, I never, I probably would have done. Yeah, eventually I wouldn't have done it. Yeah, eventually I would have had to give in because it became such a huge part of promotion.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

It did, it has.

[Keri Hilson]

But yeah, it was such a double edged sword because you're right, the opinions, they, they, they do, they can and they do. And you just get easier the more, I guess, self aware and the more love you have for yourself, I think the absolute. That is.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah.

[Keri Hilson]

You're like, oh, that's not rooted in fact.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Exactly.

[Keri Hilson]

Literally how you're perceiving me. And you might feel bad. I feel empathy for people that still perceive me wrong.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

And that's how it is now. Exactly.

[Keri Hilson]

That you see me that way.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah.

[Keri Hilson]

Poor girl. You know, I mean, I was like, oh, poor thing, poor thing. You're suffering.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah. I'm not. Right. You know, that's real. Yeah. And I love that we've. It comes with the self awareness. For me it was therapy. It was learning who I am and understanding who I am in this industry, you know, and what my purpose is here.

[Keri Hilson]

Yes, yes. And by. Let me clear this up. By suffering, I didn't mean you're suffering in life.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Oh, yeah.

[Keri Hilson]

Your opinion of me is causing you to suffer.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yes.

[Keri Hilson]

A perception of me. And you're suffering with that. But I don't suffer with that because I know the. I know the truth.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yes.

[Keri Hilson]

Of the whole picture. Yeah. I don't want people to think that I'm like calling anyone lowly or that I believe that I'm superior to anyone because I really don't play that game.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah. No.

[Keri Hilson]

Saying really?

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah. No, And I didn't, I didn't even take it that way.

[Keri Hilson]

Yeah. But I thought about it. Someone might take that the wrong way. Even though that is true too. Yeah, that is true too. People are suffering and they are sometimes just mean hearted. Sometimes they don't believe what they perceive of you.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah.

[Keri Hilson]

They don't believe it, but they want to. They want to attack you. They want to make you feel the pain they're feeling.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah. That is so true. That is so true. I want to ask you, is there a version of Kerry Hilson that is sitting here today that simply would not exist if you had not stepped away?

[Keri Hilson]

Yeah, the whole version.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

What? I'm looking at you like.

[Keri Hilson]

Yeah. The whole thing.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah.

[Keri Hilson]

I don't know where I'd be. I just, I, I just, I'm so grateful that I was so ballsy to do what I needed to do. I can't, I cannot imagine where I'd be had I

[Bethenny Frankel]

pushed

[Keri Hilson]

through to the degree that it would have taken me to push through. I think it would. I literally would have been a train wreck that everyone would have watched, you know.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Wow.

[Keri Hilson]

Even more than people think my life went in that direction. People think that I know the truth.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

You would go, yeah.

[Keri Hilson]

I call it the Valley because in some ways it was.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah.

[Keri Hilson]

But it wasn't the Valley the whole time, Right?

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Exactly.

[Keri Hilson]

But when you're not relevant, people think that you.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah.

[Keri Hilson]

Are There. And I'm like, actually, I am the most beautiful version of myself now than I was when you guys thought that I was on the top, so.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Wow.

[Keri Hilson]

Yeah.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

I just had Mayor Keisha Lance Bottoms on recently, and she said, powerful women. What was it? Powerful women. No. Strong women push through. Powerful women know when to stop.

[Keri Hilson]

Oh, yes.

[Bethenny Frankel]

Yes.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

And that was so profound. And what you just said reminded me of that. Yes.

[Keri Hilson]

So true.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

There's so much power in the stop.

[Keri Hilson]

It's the yes.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah.

[Keri Hilson]

And you don't. You won't do it if you don't empower yourself. You never do or be or give yourself what you truly need if you don't feel powerful enough.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Right.

[Keri Hilson]

You know, because I was like, I don't know where my money's gonna come from. I don't know. I mean, thank God for royalties.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Thank God for.

[Keri Hilson]

You know.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah.

[Keri Hilson]

But, like.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

And you were okay with it. With. That was. During that time, was there ever a moment of, do I need. Maybe I should get back to it? Because, you know, you. You're used to a certain lifestyle. You used to think, money coming in, show money, all this. And then you're, like, taking this. This pause. Was there a moment where you were like, okay, maybe I need to rethink this?

[Keri Hilson]

Yeah. Yeah. If I'm being honest.

[Bethenny Frankel]

Yeah.

[Keri Hilson]

I was like, I would have to call my manager. Like, hey, let's go. We call it shaking the trees. Go shake some trees. It's getting a little funny out here. You know, there were moments where I was just. But I never felt like I was changing my lifestyle. Like, I never. I'm responsible enough to have never reached that kind of bridge.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah.

[Keri Hilson]

Or fork in the road. You know, I'm pretty frugal. I'm economical. I'm not like, you know, I'm not a shopper. Like, you ain't never. Ain't nobody ever seen me in the stores in Atlanta. You know what I mean?

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

I'm never.

[Keri Hilson]

I'm hardly ever there. She knows I. I might do it Christmas time. Might do it Christmas time.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah.

[Keri Hilson]

But that's going to be for one day. Like, for one item. Like, okay, I really can't order. Whatever.

[Bethenny Frankel]

Yeah.

[Keri Hilson]

But, like, I'm not frivolous. I'm not. I live within my means at all times. So I didn't. Thank God, like, I didn't ever feel like I had to do things to, like, try to.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah.

[Keri Hilson]

Prove to myself or prove to others that I still have, like, I in my circle. Ain't like that.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Keri Hilson]

People that are Watching me understand who I am.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yes. So that's.

[Keri Hilson]

Yeah, I think I've. I've been. But there have been times where I'm looking at the records and, you know, just overlooking. Just like I'd like to. I like more numbers in that. I like more numbers in my account than that, you know.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah, whatever.

[Keri Hilson]

Yeah.

[Bethenny Frankel]

Yeah.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

I love that. But you. The right time, the timing, you now. You back. Do your thing. Yeah, I love that. Now, were you still, like, writing during that time for other people or.

[Keri Hilson]

Not really.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Just kind of left music alone altogether. Yeah. Wow.

[Keri Hilson]

There was a. There was a period of that 15 years where I just didn't even want to hear music. I didn't even. Literally. My life was silent for years.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

And I know a lot of singers. Even when you sat down, you were humming, like. So I can't imagine your world without music.

[Keri Hilson]

Not even humming. Not singing in the shower? No music in the car. No. Literally, the only music I would hear was music on the plane.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah.

[Keri Hilson]

On Delta, you know, before you take off.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah.

[Keri Hilson]

That it would be music in a grocery store or wherever. Whatever. Wherever I happen to be. An elevator or something like hotel. I literally radio. I was not aware of who was out, who was doing what, what songs were charting. We. I did. I still don't look at the charts, but I just was completely. I fell out of love. I felt like music betrayed me in a sense. In a sense, yeah. You know, so. Yeah, I just couldn't.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

What built the trust back? You felt betrayed? What. What built that trust back for you to make your return?

[Keri Hilson]

That's a really. That's a good question, I think. Just time, I guess. Just time. And getting out of that depression, like, seeing the world the way that I was seeing it during the dark phase played a big part in how I viewed everything, how I viewed music, how, you know, like, it was kind of. It was like when I listened to music, my heart would break. It was like looking at a picture of a loved one that you lost.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Right. Wow.

[Keri Hilson]

It was like that. It was like looking at a picture. My mother died. My mother did not die. Let me knock on wood. We don't want that. My dad did die, but it was

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

like you went through, like, a threat. Yeah.

[Keri Hilson]

It's like a fresh wound that you are. Like, that's what listening to music was for me. Even though I decided to step away just as fate would have it. Like, I just. I didn't expect for it to not be a Lego thing that I could, like, put back together. I didn't expect that it would implode the way that it did.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah.

[Keri Hilson]

That I would lose major players, that I would lose my situation, my, my, my record deal.

[Bethenny Frankel]

Yeah.

[Keri Hilson]

That now that turned out best case scenario for me, thank God. But like to lose people that I felt like, believed in me.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah.

[Keri Hilson]

You know, so for me, all because I'm doing something, I'm just taking a break. I didn't say I was gone forever. I just was taking a break. And now you want to. But it wasn't all about that. There was other things that I would not, should not reveal here today.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

But,

[Keri Hilson]

you know, a lot went into that. But yeah, I just, I felt, in a sense, I felt like my dream betrayed me. Yeah, in a sense. So I think you just have to sometimes change your outlook and then like things become more comfortable. Things, you process things better when you're.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Well, back to school. Shopping is about more than just checking off a list. It's about helping kids feel confident walking into a new school year. Whether it's a favorite notebook, a cool backpack, or the perfect pair of shoes, Target is there to make a big difference. Target is showing up for families this back to school season with a huge variety of school supplies, apparel and accessories that help kids do their thing and express their personal style. And with low prices all season long, parents can feel good about getting everything they need at a great value. Think backpacks starting at just $5 and save up to 60% on school supplies. Plus, Target has the brands and collaborations kids are excited about, including Love Shack, Fancy Cat and Jack Overtime, and even personalized oala bottles with stickers, charms and more. With the prices parents want and the brands kids love, Target has everything you need for back to school shopping all in one place. Because when kids feel confident heading into the school year, parents feel good too. Awkward time to ask this, but.

[Commercial Announcer]

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[Keri Hilson]

Yeah. No, I don't need to.

[Commercial Announcer]

I don't understand. You're trusting your signal out here.

[Keri Hilson]

I'm trusting T Mobile. They have the best network. And if we end up in bumtots nowhere, well, we've got T satellite for backup.

[Commercial Announcer]

Whoa, I don't trust my carrier that much.

[Keri Hilson]

We'll just use your phone as a flashlight.

[Commercial Announcer]

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[Bethenny Frankel]

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[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yes, yes. Speaking of depression and being well, did you do therapy? What was your process to really work through that?

[Keri Hilson]

Yeah, it was a lot. It was therapy, it was spiritual retreats, it was journaling, it was taking. Why I discovered taking walks and and I discovered meditation. I only said yes. I called it my Selah or my Eat Pray, Love phase.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Oh nice.

[Keri Hilson]

Because I would literally crystal. I would only take shows in the countries that I wanted to go to. It's like oh yeah, Thailand, sure. Oh, I've never seen China. Let's do China.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Wow.

[Keri Hilson]

Oh Morocco. Yeah, let's go.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Let's.

[Keri Hilson]

You know all the countries I went to in Africa, most happened. That's not true. But A lot happened. We continued to go to Africa because I'm like, I went a lot while I was out. Okay.

[Bethenny Frankel]

Yeah.

[Keri Hilson]

Anyway. Yeah, I only went to places like, yes. I want to see Kenya. Yep. I want to do a safari there. Yep. You know, there was so. You know, so all of that, like, I can't really attribute it to one thing. Yeah. My healing was so fast. And mushrooms, which I talked about on another show. Angie Martinez show.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

I think I remember seeing a clip of that.

[Keri Hilson]

Yes. Yeah. I discovered macro and micro dosing.

[Bethenny Frankel]

Seeing.

[Keri Hilson]

And that was really good for me. And I had some destructive things, too. Like during Coven, when I did lose my dad.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah.

[Keri Hilson]

I picked up drinking and was just doing some destructive things in that phase. And partying a lot. Well, that was before that. That was maybe around 2016. I was partying a lot.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Cause I was partying too. And I remember seeing you as. Okay, me too, girl.

[Bethenny Frankel]

Okay.

[Keri Hilson]

Like, hey, Crystal, see you next week.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Same place, same time.

[Keri Hilson]

It was literally.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yes, I remember. Yes, I remember that.

[Bethenny Frankel]

Yes.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

And then I remember you posting your dad was like your twin. Like, I remember y'. All. I just remember you posting something about him. I was like, gosh, they have the same face. But I remember feeling the heartbreak even through your post about him. Yeah. And then we're already going through so much with COVID And then on top

[Keri Hilson]

of that and all the things. Yeah.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

What a time, man.

[Keri Hilson]

I drank, covet away.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

I would wait. I ate it away.

[Keri Hilson]

Poor drinks. I was like, oh, I think this is alcoholism. Let me pull this back. This is alcoholism. I gained all that weight.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Like, that was me eating things.

[Keri Hilson]

Yeah, Eating things. I hadn't eaten since I was a kid. Like, you are not hungry? It's five o' clock in the morning. I am. Why am I cooking?

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Right? Oh, yeah.

[Keri Hilson]

What is happening?

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Cooking with Chris was in full effect. I was trying all types of recipes in sweatpants. And then I had to get dress. I said, none of.

[Keri Hilson]

None of it.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Nothing is fitting. Oh, girl. A mess.

[Keri Hilson]

I picked up my leggings. My love for leggings happened in Covid.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Me too.

[Keri Hilson]

Now I just can't stop.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah, right. I want nothing that's too tight. Yeah. I can't stand it now we are the same. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. I can't do it. That's right. But I love Carrie, how you have come out on the other side when I see you when you walked in, just. I'm talking about glowing. I love. Because people, they. They see the. The absence, but they don't see what the refining that happened in the absence. I see it, you know, and I'm just. I want to say I'm proud of you. I'm glad that you are back, honey, because we were waiting. We were waiting. True story.

[Keri Hilson]

Okay.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

I moved to Atlanta in 2009 and I had cut my hair short and I had like the blonde piece and they were like, oh, she trying to be like, Carrie, you was my inspiration, girl.

[Keri Hilson]

Okay.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yes. I love, love, loved and love you, but I was a huge fan of yours and just to be able to share a space with you and sit down with you and hear more about your story.

[Keri Hilson]

Finally.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yes, finally. I'm so grateful. And I would love to know. Our theme for this season is purpose. And I want to know, after your 15 year hiatus, what is Kerri Hilson's purpose now?

[Keri Hilson]

I think my purpose now is what it always was. But we derail ourselves at times or we, you know, or life, you know, circumstances, whatever. But I think my purpose is what it always has been, and that's to express. I think it's as simple as that. Express, be authentic. My purpose is to show people, I guess, what's possible.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

And

[Keri Hilson]

I feel a sense of responsibility to young women to be respectable, to dress a certain way, and to show them that there's not just one way of doing things, you know?

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

I love it. Yeah.

[Keri Hilson]

To be eloquent and to be just authentic and be good. Just to be good, be great, be good, be at peace. Like, I feel a sense of purpose when I'm like, just being my best.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah.

[Keri Hilson]

Yeah.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

I love that. So we have part four coming out soon. How long do you have to wait?

[Keri Hilson]

No, there's no. No, there's no part four.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Okay. So you're just gonna. It'll be just more music. No, no.

[Keri Hilson]

What you mean everything is released? Everything that is going to be released for this project.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Okay.

[Keri Hilson]

Is out.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah. Okay. We're out.

[Keri Hilson]

Okay.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Is there anything else that we can support you because you're also an actor? Do you have anything else going on?

[Keri Hilson]

I haven't been doing that lately. No. I've been promoting. I've been on the road.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Okay.

[Keri Hilson]

I do. I'm not opposed to it. I love acting.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yes. And you're great at it.

[Keri Hilson]

Fun. Thank you.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Likewise. Thank you. Yes.

[Keri Hilson]

I. Yeah, for some reason, in the past year or two, there haven't been a lot of project. I haven't been part of a lot.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

I just had this conversation.

[Keri Hilson]

Aren't that many projects happening.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

It's not. Yeah. I just was like, where are the Auditions.

[Keri Hilson]

Yeah.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

I haven't literally just had a conversation.

[Keri Hilson]

I don't know if I auditioned at all this year.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah.

[Keri Hilson]

But yeah, I mean, I look forward to it. I enjoy it. It's fun. It's fun. I like being a student.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yes.

[Keri Hilson]

That's what acting is for me. It's like, okay, for sure. I have my bearing. I'm very sure of myself and my decision making in music.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Right.

[Keri Hilson]

I love being in arenas where I'm a student.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yes.

[Keri Hilson]

That is what acting is for me. So I love it for that reason.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Well, we look forward to what is to come and however we can support you, we will. Thank you. You have a fan. And the Sweeties, we love you.

[Keri Hilson]

Yes.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Thank you so much, Carrie. Thank you for having me. Absolutely.

[Commercial Announcer]

Yes.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Carrie, thank you so much for spending time with us. This conversation was truly special. And Sweeties, if you enjoyed today's episode, make sure you like, subscribe, subscribe and share it with someone that you love because you never know who might need this conversation. And before you go, I am so excited to welcome you all to the Sweeties Social club. If you've been rocking with us and you want to be even more connected with the kids family, this is for you members, you get access to exclusive events, special experiences, merch drops and so much more. Click the link in my bio to join. We cannot wait to welcome until next time. And in between time, keep it positive, sweetie. I love you guys. Back to school is here. And Target has everything families need to help head into the school year feeling confident and ready to do their thing. From school supplies and stylish apparel to accessories kids actually want. Target makes it easy to check every box on your list at a great value. We're talking backpacks. Starting at just $5 and up to 60% off school suppl, kids can express their style with brands and collabs they love. Like Love shack, fancy cat and jack. Overtime and customizable owalla bottles with stickers, charms and much more. The prices parents want and the brands kids love all in one place at Target.

[Keri Hilson]

Maintenance fee, overdraft fee, minimum balance fee, maximum balance fee. Banking fees are just a part of modern life. Or are they?

[Bethenny Frankel]

They're not at all a bank.

[Keri Hilson]

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[Chris Renee Hazlett]

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[Bethenny Frankel]

What?

[Commercial Announcer]

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[Keri Hilson]

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[Chris Renee Hazlett]

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[Keri Hilson]

Subscribe now. This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.