Listening to the Voice of God While Battling Restlessness in This Season - A Candid Conversation with Jonathan McReynolds.

Summary

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Keep It Positive, Sweetie — Ep. "Listening to the Voice of God While Battling Restlessness in This Season"

Guest: Jonathan McReynolds
Host: Crystal Renee Hayslett
Date: Feb 15, 2026

Episode Overview

This candid conversation features Grammy-winning gospel artist Jonathan McReynolds, who joins Crystal Renee Hayslett to talk honestly about listening for God's voice during seasons of restlessness and heaviness. Together, they discuss the pressures of living faith out loud, the importance of self-awareness, cycles of personal growth, wise counsel, and finding identity apart from public perception. The episode is rich with personal anecdotes, relatable struggles, and practical encouragement for anyone navigating confusion, disappointment, or the desire to be seen.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Checking In: Carrying Heaviness and Restlessness

• Opening with a heart-check, Jonathan admits to feeling "a little heavy" because of both world events and personal pressure, despite feeling blessed and optimistic.
  • Quote:
    “A daily dose of society is a little overwhelming.…I do feel a little heaviness in this season.” — Jonathan (03:50)
• Crystal echoes this, sharing her own prayers for clarity about her role amid the noise and chaos of current times.
• Both acknowledge the tension between wanting to act and needing to rest in God's sovereignty.

2. The Pressure of Platform vs. Private Faith

• Jonathan talks about managing the expectation to respond publicly but emphasizes the importance of prioritizing oneself, family, and private conversations.
  • Quote:
    “Sometimes the number one priority is one—You. Two—Just your people, your family, your friends.” — Jonathan (05:41)
• Recognizes that not every insight or reaction needs to be shared publicly—sometimes God calls for quiet.
  • Quote:
    “There’s been times I’ve been ready to go because there’s just so much going on. And God, it’s a quiet whisper. He’s like, I’m in control of this. I got it. I don’t need you saying nothing. Let me handle it.” — Crystal (06:34)

3. Faith as a Daily Practice—Not a Destination

• Living faith “out loud” is a daily journey; there’s no graduation to perfection.
• Jonathan distinguishes between status (being God’s child) and performance (good or bad days do not change that).
  • Quote:
    “You’re a son. You’re a daughter of God. And from that place, I do things or not do things….When you were doing terribly, you were no less of a son. And when you’re doing amazing, you’re no more of a son.” — Jonathan (08:28)

4. The Complexity of Public and Private Identity

• Being in the spotlight as a believer brings challenges—public mistakes and triumphs are scrutinized.
• Jonathan notes he’s never been a musician or Christian in private; they all developed together, complicating his sense of self outside what’s expected of him.
  • Quote:
    “God and people will sound the same….People’s happiness and approval is not the voice of God.” — Jonathan (10:40, 11:48)

5. Navigating Disappointment and Spiritual Uncertainty

• Both discuss moments when God feels silent or distant.
• Jonathan urges people to “keep doing what you were doing” even when unclear, and emphasizes that God often “hides himself on purpose” to invite pursuit and deeper relationship.
  • Quote:
    “We have to work out our salvation in fear and trembling….95% of the time [silence is] so you can reach, so you can do. Try something different and so you can pray a little bit more….” — Jonathan (15:04, 16:08)

6. Repeating Lessons & Cyclical Growth

• Jonathan uses his song “Cycles” to admit he too struggles with recurring lessons—particularly in wanting immediate comfort or connection over long-term relationship with God.
  • Quote:
    “The devil learns from your mistakes even if you don’t.…Doing the wrong thing doesn’t feel that bad. It takes a while for it to blow up.” — Jonathan (17:10)
• He’s open about writing from his own cycles, not just pointing to others’ struggles.

7. Character Before Climbing: Insights from His Book

• Discusses the dangers of seeking success without the inner foundation of character, humility, and spiritual alignment.
  • “Mountains look amazing from back here, to be on a mountain is hell…A lot of our mistakes happen because we’re tired…Mistakes start to happen, loss of identity starts to happen…” — Jonathan (20:09, 21:15)
• Emphasizes the need to step down and rest, to reconnect with identity before spotlight or titles.

8. Loneliness, Self-Acceptance, and Applause Addiction

• Both reflect on the difficulty of loneliness, especially in public roles where external approval can become addictive.
• Jonathan discusses the importance of seeing oneself and not relying on the validation of others for self-worth.
  • “All those times where I was hoping somebody saw me, I don’t know that I really saw myself.…Normally, I need other people to do for me stuff that I was supposed to do for myself.” — Jonathan (25:55, 26:34)

9. Wise Counsel, Therapy, and the Power of Community for Men

• Jonathan shares about building his own council for accountability and guidance, admitting that even as strong men, we need support and boundaries (“guardrails”).
  • “If it weren’t for God’s grace, or some of the people around me, I would have had a lot more gutter balls in front of everybody that turned out to be spares and strikes…” — Jonathan (33:23)
• Advocates for the importance of male community and group chats for healthy emotional expression (“A good group chat is going to save mankind.” — 35:36)

10. Creative Process and Themes from New Album ‘Closer’

• Talks about the motivation for live recording—wanting a sound and message more connected and vibrant for his current season.
• Lyrically, the album focuses on drawing close to God, knowing Him as “Father,” and accessing spiritual inheritance.
  • “Not just the one…that changes with whoever’s talking…but the real me. And really find the confidence and the status…” — Jonathan (39:46)
• Sonically inspired by 80s greats, with more upbeat, electric guitar-driven tracks.

11. Striving for Honesty & Inspiration in Art

• Discusses balancing honesty and positivity in gospel music; concludes that honesty is inherently inspirational.
  • “Even the most specific thing about you is going to free somebody else. Your honesty is inspiring.” — Jonathan (41:10)

12. Final Word: God’s Capacity for Us

• Jonathan closes with a poignant encouragement to anyone feeling unseen or unheard:
  • “God has the capacity for you…You can go to Him with the raw stuff, with the messed up stuff, the good, the bad, and the ugly, and he can take it. He ain’t afraid of you.” — Jonathan (43:44)
  • Advises embracing this access and being “bold” in bringing one’s real self to God.

13. Unapologetic Confidence

• When asked what he’s unapologetic for in this season:
  • “This year, I’m unapologetically good. I’m unapologetically competent. I’m unapologetically ready for every stage, every room.” — Jonathan (44:56)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Present Anxiety & Presence
  “We wanna be the…We wanna see justice. It’s just human to want to see what the seeds that you plant grow up to be.” – Jonathan (06:57)
• On Perfectionism in Faith
  “Most of the time you have to pick up a cross every day. Every day you have to get daily bread.” – Jonathan (08:10)
• On Male Vulnerability
  “A good group chat is going to save mankind.” – Jonathan (35:36)
• On the Need for Approval
  “Now you need it every single time. And, yeah, we can. That’s how you get lost in it. People think that it’s…quick…Nah, it’s subtle.” — Jonathan (28:29)
• On Having Wise Counsel
  “Bible says that there’s safety in a multitude of counsel. And I need y'all because I want to be safe.” – Jonathan (30:48)
• On God’s Capacity & Unconditional Acceptance
  “Go to Him with the raw stuff…the good, the bad, and the ugly, and He can take it. He ain’t afraid of you.” – Jonathan (43:44)
• On Unapologetic Self-Belief
  “I’m unapologetically competent…I ain’t gonna keep second guessing myself, period.” – Jonathan (44:56)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 03:50 — Jonathan on heaviness & current events
• 05:40 — Platform pressure & private conversations
• 08:28 — Faith as daily status, not performance
• 10:40 — Managing public identity as a believer/artist
• 15:04 — When God feels silent/practical perseverance
• 17:10 — Learning from recurring mistakes (“Cycles”)
• 20:09 — Lessons from “Before You Climb Any Higher” book
• 25:34 — Addressing loneliness & self-seeing
• 33:23 — Guardrails, wise counsel, and men’s mental health
• 36:46 — Group chats & healthy male vulnerability
• 39:46 — Creative process behind album “Closer”
• 41:10 — Honesty as inspiration in faith art
• 43:44 — God’s capacity for our whole selves
• 44:56 — Unapologetic competence & self-worth

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Tone & Style

The conversation is open, authentic, compassionate, and unguarded. Both Crystal and Jonathan balance vulnerability with grounded faith and practical wisdom. The show’s signature warmth and encouragement shine throughout, fostering a genuine, healing sense of community.

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For Listeners

This episode is a must-listen if you’ve ever:

• Questioned your purpose or role during confusing times
• Struggled with public vs. private faith or craving approval
• Repeated the same personal cycles or lessons
• Felt unseen, unheard, or tired on your journey
• Desired practical wisdom for mental/emotional health, especially as a man
• Wanted to draw closer to God and live authentically

Listen for: Sincere, comforting insights on spiritual restlessness, and unvarnished truths about walking with God in today's world.

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Transcript

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[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Calling all my sweeties to the forefront. I'm your host, Chris Renee Hazlett and this is the Keep it Positive Sweetie Show. Welcome to the Keep It Positive Sweetie show, the place where we heal, grow and learn together. Today's guest is Grammy award winning singer, songwriter, worship leader, Jonathan McReynolds. Jonathan McReynolds music has long created a space for reflection, faith and real time conversation with God. Today's conversation goes beyond the songs touching on faith, vulnerability, growth and what it really means to walk with God in real time. Kids, family, please give a very warm welcome to Jonathan McReynolds. Jonathan, thank you so much.

[Jonathan McReynolds]

Thank you.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yes, we've been, I've been wanting you to come on. You were in town promoting your new album. So excited to have you on. You are a man of many gifts. You're a singer, a songwriter, an author, an actor, a musician, all the things. But before we get into the work that you've done, what I want to do, and I want to get into the habit of doing this when people sit down because we're carrying so much, how are you?

[Jonathan McReynolds]

Oh, man.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Because we don't think we go right into it, you know, how are you?

[Jonathan McReynolds]

Well, how much time you got? We got time, 38 minutes. No, I'm good. I think that recently with a lot of what's going on in the world, it's been a little heavy. You know, I think that, you know, a daily dose of society is a little overwhelming. After a while it starts to accumulate that plus your own personal stuff that you carry. So I think that there is, while I feel good and God has been really blessing, I have a lot of things to look forward to. I do feel a little heaviness in this season. As you know, I try to hear God on what I should be doing, how I should be responding or not responding and to whom, you know. And so I think that in these times there is, there's some restlessness, like I should be doing something right. We already feel like that about career and love and everything else. We should be doing something right now. But then the world gives you another reason to try to figure that out quickly as well. And I Think I'm. I have been a little heavier. Still happy, but a little heavy.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Same. I feel the same thing that has been my prayer lately. Like, God, what am I supposed to be doing? What voice do you want me to be or not in this season? Because there's so much going on, and oftentimes I feel like a lot of it is distractions. So I also pray for, like, what is it that I'm missing or that I may not be seeing while all this is going on because it's so much noise. Yeah.

[Jonathan McReynolds]

Yeah. And sometimes we have to be okay with not doing much at all right now. You know what I'm saying? I think as people with platforms, we recognize some level of social responsibility.

[Ben (Shopify Sponsor)]

That.

[Jonathan McReynolds]

We all feel like our number one responsibility and priority is the world that watches us and our following, that cares, and the fans that consume. Sometimes the number one priority is one. You, two. Just your people, your family, your friends. I've had incredible private conversations that I can't figure out how to put on threads for the life of me.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Right.

[Jonathan McReynolds]

And by the time I think about what to post, something else has happened.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Nope. Seriously, Sometimes I just have to log off. It's like, this is too much.

[Jonathan McReynolds]

Yeah. So just. Just allowing. Allowing God to help you process for yourself, give you opportunities to process with people privately and individually. And then maybe there's something to be shared to the greater world out there.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

And I feel like he'll put that on your heart. He'll let you know, like, share this, you know? Cause there's been times I've been ready to go because there's just so much going on. And God, it's a quiet whisper. He's like, I'm in control of this. I got it. I don't need you saying nothing. Let me handle it. And I'm like, you know what? I find peace in that. Like, he does have the final say in everything. And as much as I want to be like, you're gonna get what's coming to you.

[Jonathan McReynolds]

Yeah. We wanna. We wanna be the. We wanna. We wanna see justice. Yes. Like, we wanna. It's just human to want to see what the seeds that you plant grow up to be. Yeah. You know, it's hard to. You know, as they say, like, you'll never get to sit in the shade of the tree that you planted.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

That's right.

[Jonathan McReynolds]

You know, it's way far down the line. There's generations that are gonna be watching this. Or same way we are. Yeah. You know, we're consuming stuff from people who never would have even thought that this would be the context for their art. And so I think that we definitely have to trust that we're not just living out our plan. We are part of a very long, great agenda and plan and narrative and we gotta play our parts even if we don't see all of the ends that we wanna see.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah, that's so true. That is good. You are known for making music feel like a conversation, not a performance. I wanna know, at what point did you. Your relationship with God come about actually being living it versus just acting it out when it came to your music?

[Jonathan McReynolds]

Oh, man. I think that's. That's a fight every day. You know, I don't think. You know, I think they. I think people might get a lot of us Jesus folks wrong. Okay. Like. Like we, like, we get somewhere and then we've graduated.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah.

[Jonathan McReynolds]

No, most of the time you have to pick up across every day. Every day you have to get daily bread. Like, you know, I wish. I mean. And there are some things that I just don't have to worry about anymore. I've just completely matured past. But then there's some things that it just be coming right back and I gotta. I gotta put it. You know, I gotta put the dog back in the closet again. You know, he somehow got his way, found his way out. And so I think that in this season, you know, I'm accepting not just how well I'm doing, but I'm accepting who I am in Christ. That's different. That's different because that doesn't go up and down with your whims and your feelings. It doesn't go up and down with how everybody else feels. That's your status. Yeah, that's your status. You're a son. You're a daughter of God. And from that place I do things or not do things. From that place, I make maybe hopefully less mistakes. From that place, I can come somewhere confidently as opposed to. I'm on a good streak. You know what I'm saying? That's how we be thinking. Like, hey, I'm doing good. I'm doing good. This summer's been great. And the truth is, when you were doing terribly, you were no less of a son. And when you're doing amazing, you're no more of a son. You are just maybe embodying a little bit more and accessing a little more of something you already had.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah, I love that. Something that we both do. We live our life out loud and in the public eye as a follower of Christ and a believer Sometimes that can be tough because they're watching everything in real time. The falls, the triumphs, they're seeing it all. Has there ever been a moment in your career where you've like, ah, like I wish that didn't happen or where you felt like, you know, I just, I want to take a step back. This is too much.

[Jonathan McReynolds]

Every day. What do you mean? Like you.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Is it every day?

[Jonathan McReynolds]

I mean. Yeah. No, I mean the first half. Where. What was the first half?

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

The first half is living your life out in public and as a believer.

[Jonathan McReynolds]

Yeah, I think, I think I would say this has been my biggest lesson. Because when you first start and at various places in your career, God and people will sound the same. They'll all be clapping or they'll all be booing, you know, and you'll be like, man, people are enjoying this. They're being blessed by it. Therefore God must be in it, he must be happy. And then there are other times where they're still being blessed by it and God is not that impressed or people don't like it and God is smiling. And so I think every day, that's why I never want to. I can never buy the idea that I figured anything out or mastered anything because it is kind of a moving target. It is kind of a pursuit all the time. I'm always trying to figure out where God is and where he isn't, where I'm supposed to be and where I'm not supposed to be. And maybe I was supposed to be in this room for a season and not in this season.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Right.

[Jonathan McReynolds]

You know, maybe people were supposed to clap in this season, but not in this season. And so I think trying to figure that out in front of people, our biggest pitfall is thinking that the people's happiness and approval is God is the voice of God, is the approval of God. And having to unlearn that in this day, in this age for me, because I've never been an adult without also being a career musician. I've never been a musician without also being a Christian. And honestly, when I was beginning my Christian journey, I started writing music. And so people put me on a platform of being a minister as well of it. So I've never even been a Christian without having to tell the world about it.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Right.

[Jonathan McReynolds]

You know what I'm saying? And so when you have all those things put together, you gotta unravel them and say, okay, but who am I?

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yes.

[Jonathan McReynolds]

Skip the fact that I'm, you know, they are expecting a minister out of me or expecting a song out of me. What's my actual prayer and condition and status? And I think that's the hardest part for us is knowing that they'll never fully know.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yes.

[Jonathan McReynolds]

And they'll never fully tell us that part. Yeah.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Clock it. That's so good. That is so good. In your life and your journey, has there ever been a moment where you felt like. And we can be honest, like, where sometimes we're like, dang, like God, I really wanted that. You felt let down or felt like he was being silent in a moment. And how did you navigate that, keeping your faith aligned with what you really believed?

[Jonathan McReynolds]

I think. There are a lot of things I thought of when you say that there's a lot. You'd be asking these questions that have, like, 10 answers, and I'll be catching each one. The first thing I'll think about is keep doing what you were doing. A lot of times, you know, we're looking for a fresh instruction when we just need to continue what we were doing. Even in this new season, even in this new place. If you were writing and praying and studying in this season and God ain't told you to do something different, then keep doing it. Even if your status with other people has changed. And on the other level, I do believe that we don't do often. I have gone through seasons where I've wanted God to be a lot more plainer. A lot more like, just a lot more plain. A lot more just. God, just whisper in my ear and tell me what I'm supposed to do. Tell me if that girl is the one or if she's going to make everybody mad. You know what I'm saying? Just say it. You just say no. And sometimes he does. And oftentimes, half the time when he does, I still disobey anyway. And so it really. Oh, no, you wouldn't have been that obvious. That's just me.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

He's like, you asked me to be clear.

[Jonathan McReynolds]

Right, Right. And we still don't even listen to the clear stuff. So truly, the. I think that what people have to understand is we're on a journey here and we have to work out our salvation in fear and trembling. We have to constantly pursue, like he hides himself on purpose. It's not so that he will never be known. It's so that we reach to find him and so that he can reveal stuff. And so please understand that if. If there is a moment of silence, if there's a moment of. I'm not really sure half the time, 95% of the time, it's so you can reach, so you can do. Try something different and so you can pray a little bit more so you can wake up a little earlier and really try to find him. And in that process, you normally find out a whole bunch of other stuff about you and your world. And I think that's just. I think we're so kind of in minded that we forget the journey in between.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Exactly.

[Jonathan McReynolds]

That is normally pretty uncertain.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

For sure. For sure. In that you just talked about how like you'll ask God. I need to be clear. Are there any lessons? And I'm sure there are, because we all. For me, for sure, there's been lessons that I've had to learn more than once. Oh, what is something that you were like, God, like, I know you told me not to do this, or I know I've learned the lesson, but I keep the cycles. We keep repeating it.

[Jonathan McReynolds]

Yeah, I mean, that's what I just say, man. That's where that song came from. Hear it? No. Don't be scared now because the camera's on. As soon as I walked here, she gave a great E. It was a very. See, I told y' all she'd be holding back. Yeah, like, of course. Yeah, of course. Like, I meant it when I said, you know, the devil learns from your mistakes even if you don't, man. And again, a lot of times we realize our mistakes when stuff starts hitting the fan.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah.

[Jonathan McReynolds]

But one of the greatest things, one of the most brilliant things the devil does is makes. He makes the wrong thing feel comfortable a lot, a lot more often than not doing the wrong thing. Don't feel that bad. It takes a while for it to blow up in your face.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Right.

[Jonathan McReynolds]

And therefore our decisions to follow God or to live in a certain way can't be connected just to the drama or lack of drama, the outcome or lack of outcome. It's all about who you want.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah.

[Jonathan McReynolds]

You want this or you want me. Come on, who you want. You know what I'm saying? That's the whole thing is just who you want. It's not even what feels better, it's just who you want. And our whole process is trying to figure out who we. Who we want. And for me, a lot of my recurring mistakes came from right now. I'm lonely. I want company more than I want Jesus.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Come on.

[Jonathan McReynolds]

I want, you know, somebody. I want companionship more than Jesus. I want somebody to see me more than Jesus. You know what I'm saying? And these are not like things that sound terrible. I didn't say I wanted evil Right. I want bad.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Right.

[Jonathan McReynolds]

But I did want those things. And I chose sometimes the quick fix of those rather than the long term idea of a relationship with my father in heaven.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yes.

[Jonathan McReynolds]

And so I think that of course, there's been a lot of those. A lot of recurring mistakes because my immediate needs and my immediate ways that I know I can get to those needs being kind of met temporarily, whatever they normally are, in the opposite direction of where God actually wanted me to go. And so, yeah, I am. I'm admitting in front of your audience that when I wrote Cycles, I wasn't writing it about y'. All.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Right.

[Jonathan McReynolds]

I was writing it about me.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

There's your own testimony.

[Jonathan McReynolds]

That was me. And I. And to certain things, certain cycles, I've gotten better and some. I still have to figure that thing out.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

And you are not alone in that. We all do. And I feel like if anybody acts like they got it all together, they're a liar.

[Jonathan McReynolds]

They probably don't.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

They do not.

[Jonathan McReynolds]

Because we.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Nobody has it all together. Everybody struggles with something. I'm a firm believer of that. Last year you wrote a book, before you climb any higher, and it focused on character, humility, spiritual alignment before success. Let's talk about that. Because so many people want the fame, they want the light, they want the success. But these, the things that you focus on in this book, are things that people really need to have intact before they get the success or you will not withstand everything that comes with it. Let's talk about that and unpack. What prompted you to write this book? And what are some of the things that you went through where you like? This is something we need to put on paper.

[Jonathan McReynolds]

Oh, for sure. Like, I mean. All right, so if you look at mountains, they're beautiful, they're incredible, they're noble. Wow. I would love to be on top of that mountain. But if you really look at them, there's trees, grass, green on the bottom, and there's snow, ice, thin air on the top.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Right.

[Jonathan McReynolds]

What people don't realize is while mountains look amazing from back here, to be on a mountain is hell. To be on the mountain sucks to be on the mountain. There's less oxygen, nothing to eat. You know, you start, you know, you start making mistakes. I don't know if you like an arts buff. Did you see. Have you seen Hamilton?

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yes. Yeah.

[Jonathan McReynolds]

Okay.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

And I listened to the soundtrack.

[Jonathan McReynolds]

Really?

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah.

[Jonathan McReynolds]

That's what I'm talking about. Yeah. I listen to that thing for about five months or something like that. And I had never. I'm not even a Big musical theater person. But I really enjoyed that. And there was one line when Hamilton was about to make his big mistake, you know what I'm saying, that would haunt him for the rest of his life. It said, you've never seen a bastard orphan more in need of a break. He was tired.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yes.

[Jonathan McReynolds]

We didn't talk. We didn't say his character was bad. We didn't say he was a ridiculous person. We said he was tired. A lot of our mistakes happen because we're tired. We're on this mountain, this lifeless mountain, and we keep climbing. Cause I don't want mediocrity to catch me. I don't want. I want to win one more award. And maybe my father will love me or let me get this. And maybe my ex will be jealous. We keep doing a whole bunch of climbing higher and higher and higher. And the truth is we're up there tired. And so mistakes start to happen. You know, loss of identity starts to happen. You know, the proverbial selling your soul starts to happen when you're tired.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

That's so true.

[Jonathan McReynolds]

And you want. You think something up there is going to give you rest when really the rest was down there. The rest is humbling. The rest is going back before you were CEO, before you were star, before you had a blue check and you were just son or daughter. That's what a rest is. And so, yeah, I'm not just encouraging people who haven't climbed to get some more of that life, but I'm really encouraging us who are climbing that we can step down too. I know it's scary. People might see without makeup and, you know, haircut and I got a hoodie, whatever it is, but man, nah, like, we gotta step down or we'll die up there.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

That's so true. I love that. I love that.

[Podcast Announcer]

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[Jonathan McReynolds]

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[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Per month when network is busy See terms you just talk about loneliness and in your music you've been very vocal about what you really go through. Like even with cycles you talk about loneliness, longing and self reflection. I want to know what parts of you have you had to make peace with as you've been on this journey of navigating the loneliness and the self reflection.

[Jonathan McReynolds]

Oh man.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Because when you're I feel like when you're lonely and sitting by yourself it's so much that you like really have to be like, oh, I see me now, you know, before. Like, you're not distracted by anybody else.

[Jonathan McReynolds]

I think that's the best answer right there. You have to learn to see you again. We be wanting everybody to see us.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah.

[Jonathan McReynolds]

And if I really got honest, all those times where I was hoping somebody saw me, I don't know that I really saw myself. Wow. You know what I'm saying? Like, we want everybody else to kind of like, initiate the understanding of ourselves. Like, y', all, if y' all applaud for the right stuff, and y' all tell me that I'm good, and you tell me that I'm wanted. You tell me that I'm desirable. You tell me that I'm beautiful or handsome. If you tell me, then I'll know about myself what you know about yourself first.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

That's good.

[Jonathan McReynolds]

And so I would say that my biggest answer to that is, normally, I need other people to do for me stuff that I was supposed to do for myself. Yeah.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah.

[Jonathan McReynolds]

And the loneliness, of course. Man, I still rock with the idea that, you know, I'm not supposed to be alone right now, and it's not.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

What it meant to be.

[Lowe's Sponsor]

No, no.

[Jonathan McReynolds]

It's still the place I need to be. But on the part of it that makes it real ugly is when you feel like nobody sees you in it. But I need you, you incredible wise person that's always able to see other people. I need you to turn your eye back on yourself and for a day or two, see you. And I bet you a lot of that boredom and loneliness will go away when you realize just how interesting and amazing you are.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

So true.

[Jonathan McReynolds]

Without them telling you first.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

That is so true. And I think also when we are in industries where our lives lie in the claps and the applause and the approval, you get lost in that. And when people aren't saying no, you're great. This is amazing. It's like you're waiting for that, and it turns into like, I need to hear that in everything, you know? And it's something people don't understand how, like, when that is what your life lies on, it's like, wow. Like, I. I kind of need that for everything.

[Jonathan McReynolds]

Right. And I need it constantly. Yeah. You know what I'm saying?

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

It's like, why is nobody clapping? Why aren't you guys clapping? You sleeping?

[Jonathan McReynolds]

Wow. He was up. He was just texting somebody. Let's look at who. Who you texting, Doc? I'm joking. Yeah, right, but I'm joking.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

The way you looked at you, like.

[Jonathan McReynolds]

He Looked like he did something, though.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Looking like he got caught in class.

[Jonathan McReynolds]

Suspect. Yeah, but no, man.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

No, but you do. You look for that approval, like, the nods in the audience. You're like, is everybody liking this for sure?

[Jonathan McReynolds]

And now you need it every single time. Yeah, you need it every single time.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Every single time.

[Jonathan McReynolds]

And, yeah, we can. That's. That's how you get lost in it. People think that it's, like, way more, like, intentional or, like, quick. Like, we literally just decide, I'm gonna lose myself in this. Nah, it's subtle. Like, it is just over time, you. You start, man. There was literally a moment. And I know I'm a gospel artist, so this is maybe a different, you know, something that other artists don't have to worry about. But God really had to distinguish in the moment whether I was leading, following him or following people. Like, as far as, like, working the room and stage presence and keeping everybody in it. Like, was I really, like, doing this because of, you know, I'm aiming to him or doing this because I'm trying to keep them engaged.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Right.

[Jonathan McReynolds]

You know what I'm saying? Like, it's literally sometimes a distinction that we always have to make. And again, wow. It's all just about pursuit. It's about finding where God is today and Amen there.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Exactly. No, that's so true in that. How have you. Like, do you do therapy or do you talk to someone to kind of help you manage those feelings when you're in the thick of it?

[Jonathan McReynolds]

Yeah. So I have. First of all, I have. I have my therapist turned coach. Cause we actually started to hoop and became friends afterwards. So he can't be my therapist no more.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

But maybe a life coach.

[Jonathan McReynolds]

But, yeah. No, that's what I'm saying. He's still my life coach. Big brother. And here's what I did this year. I found this company that makes these coins. And I made a coin and sent it out to what I call my council. I dubbed all these people that you would know, like Jason Nelson or William McDowell, but then other people that you might not know, like the dean at my school or the, you know, this pastor over there, this older guy over here, my uncle. And they're like these. I wanted to empower them to hem me up when necessary. I wanted to let them know that you guys are my counsel. I'm not doing anything unless I run something by y'.

[Public Investing Sponsor]

All.

[Jonathan McReynolds]

Bible says that there's safety in a multitude of counsel. And I need y' all because I want to be safe. I don't want to make a whole bunch of risky, crazy decisions. Like, I'm so not only is there like a straight up licensed therapist within that council, but there are people who have lived this life and people that I respect highly, people that kind of see the end before I do. They're on the other side of a lot of these changes and stuff I'm going through.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Right.

[Jonathan McReynolds]

So they know what. They know how my knees are going to hurt. They know what arthritis is, you know what I'm saying? They know how it feels to take two pills a day. And so I need that perspective sometimes to be like, hey, look, yo, like my doctor said, I need to, you know, I need to drop my cholesterol here. Yeah. He's like, yeah, you better do that because it's what's coming out. You know what I'm saying? Or we just be living without any perspective. And so what I'm really proud of this year is that I kind of really codified my own little counsel that's amazing to. It's like 10 guys that have the permission to yank me off stage if necessary.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Wow. Let's talk about that. Because I feel like a lot of men, they one, we are like everyone. We are a result or a sum of the five people that we're around the most. And a lot of times we don't realize the people that we're around are either hindering us or they're promoting us to, like, higher levels or holding us back. And what was it in you that said, I need wise counsel, I need these men? Because I feel like men need to hear that it's okay to have people that can like, that you can talk to and run things by that'll hold you accountable just to make them just better men and like, even grow wiser. But what was it in you that said, hey, like, this is what I need right now?

[Jonathan McReynolds]

The first thing I thought of, look, I'm a weirdo, so sometimes you be asking questions and I have these visuals. It reminded me of when we were young, bowling. And if you were young enough or terrible enough, somebody would come up and put the little guardrails on. Okay. Because when you have guardrails, even if you are terrible at bowling, even if you just bowled a terrible ball, somehow it works out.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yep.

[Jonathan McReynolds]

Somehow it stays in the lane. Yeah. Sometimes you get a strike when you didn't deserve that, that would have been a gutter ball.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Right.

[Jonathan McReynolds]

And I promise you, if it weren't for God's grace, if it wasn't for some of the people around me, I would have had a lot more gutter balls in front of everybody. That turned out to be spares and strikes and turned out to be very decent. And so for me, like, and for all men, I think that we are so convinced that everything has to be in our own strength.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Wow.

[Jonathan McReynolds]

You know, ladies, you know, y' all can kind of chill around us, and we take that. We rise to the occasion. Yeah. You don't even have to think about nothing. I got. I'm gonna navigate. I know where we going. I'll drive. Blah, blah, blah. Y' all just chill over there. Turn your brain off.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

We like, please. We like that.

[Jonathan McReynolds]

Oh, of course. And honestly, I take pride in being able to provide that, and most men do. The problem is, if you are always the source of your own strength, if you are always the strength of your own life, you are going to run out. You're just going to run out. I mean, there's a difference between, you know, one of these light bulbs that are not connected to electricity and other ones that are connected to electricity. Can you connect yourself to a larger resource that will actually kind of keep you where you need to go? And for men, like, we gotta know, you still gonna be the one bowling, but, like, get some guardrails. Yeah. You still gonna be the one shining, but plug into something.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yes.

[Jonathan McReynolds]

You know what I'm saying? Like, it's still going to. It's still gonna come down to you. You still gonna get the credit that you need. She's still gonna love you.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Right.

[Jonathan McReynolds]

She just might not realize you're only able to shine this long because you're plugged up to something. And so, like, that little moment of humility that allows you to plug into something greater than you is normally all that you need for this next season. Yeah. Wow.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

That's good. The fellow said. Mm, I heard that. That's so good. No, thank you for sharing that, because I feel like more men need to hear that it's okay to have your tribe and it's okay to step outside of, like, if you realize your core group isn't really taking you where you. You want to go, step outside of that and find the right people.

[Jonathan McReynolds]

A good group chat is going to save mankind.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

That's real.

[Jonathan McReynolds]

I'm telling you, man. Like, I started a group chat maybe, like, last October, and we still hanging in there, like, still, you know, talking about anything that comes up because sometimes you just need to let it out. You know what I'm saying, man? We hold a lot in, I'm telling you, because we know that if we say it the way we feel it, it's gonna come off violent, it's gonna come off aggressive, it's gonna hurt somebody. You just sometimes need just the outlet even just for that, just to get the bad out that, you know? And it's not gonna hurt anybody.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Right.

[Jonathan McReynolds]

And so, like, you know, I definitely am part of the movement that says, men, we need some more help.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah.

[Jonathan McReynolds]

We need some other connections. It can't just be her. Yeah. Like, that can't be the only connection we got. Cause she got 10 friends she can go on vacation with. Just them. Yeah. We be like, we ain't got nobody to talk to. For real. And so I just believe that this generation, maybe through the group chat, is today's men are becoming more communal.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Absolutely.

[Jonathan McReynolds]

And that's gonna be a great thing for everybody.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

I love that. I want to talk about your latest album, Closer live recorded album in your hometown, Chicago. Tell me about that, man.

[Jonathan McReynolds]

It was a movie, so we did it in July last summer. And, man, I had such a good time. I wore my little leather jacket, the snakeskin, Whatever that thing is. And, no, we had a really amazing time. Hopefully, people have already heard the first single that came out still. It was nominated for a Grammy this past February, and we had a great time doing it, and I really can't wait for everybody to hear it. It's a lot of new vibes, a lot of different vibes. It's kind of, you know, it's upbeat. I know people are used to me on the guitar, you know what I'm saying? But, like, you know, just imagine the ease, but just even bigger electric guitar, you know what I'm saying? I got a little solo and everything, so.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Oh, that's cool.

[Jonathan McReynolds]

I'm really. Man, it was fun, and I think that it's appropriate for this season.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Absolutely. So can you give us the. The backstory to the album, the creative process and what made you say, I want to do this, and I want to do it live?

[Jonathan McReynolds]

Yeah, man. Well, you know, I think that one, like, lyrically, I was just at a place where, you know, I tell everybody we are always striving for bigger and better. You know what I'm saying we always want to do. As an artist, you don't ever want to go smaller than the last album. You never want less success than the last album. You always look in the bigger. And if you're anybody like me, like, you're always trying to improve. You know, you try. You asking your ex, hey, so what did I do wrong? So you can go fix that. You know what I'm saying? You asking your boss, how did I do that? So you can fix that. We're always trying to be better as well, but in this season, God, I feel like was really just calling me closer, like, so you can hear me, so you can know the real me. You know what I'm saying? The real Jesus. The real father. Not just the one, not the fake one that you hear all over the place and, you know, has a weird. That guy's weird. I don't know, he changes with whoever's talking, but the real me and really find the confidence and the status. Remember, I keep talking about status, you know, finding the status. Somebody who did not have the most robust relationship with their father. It's hard for me to know how to operate like a son. But in this moment, man, I feel more like, yo, dad says I can go in the refrigerator whenever I need it. I can go to the pantry so I don't have to pray for peace and pray for joy. I have access to it, if that's your dad. And so, like, learning how to just accept that status and that relationship and, like, really believe it more than. He's just like, this big, terrible, straight, far away God, no. He's like, you can get close.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah.

[Ben (Shopify Sponsor)]

And so.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

And he wants that. He invites that.

[Jonathan McReynolds]

That's the whole point. Yeah. And so, yeah, that's lyrically kind of where we were going. Now, as far as the sound, I legit just woke up one day and was like, Lionel Richie. I don't know, but one Lionel, two Lionel Richie songs, but I just woke up with a desire to study the 80s. MJ, Lionel, you know, early Whitney, all that stuff. And so. And, yeah, what came out. I really had a good time, so I think you'll enjoy it.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

I'm excited. I'm excited. Do you ever wrestle with the pressure from being inspirational and also just being honest? Because I know as a gospel artist, everything is inspirational. But sometimes, like, I feel like in cycles, you were just like, I'm just about to put it out there.

[Jonathan McReynolds]

Oh, yeah. I got a few songs that I'm like, man, y' all let me. Y' all let me put this out.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

They really let me get away with this.

[Jonathan McReynolds]

Yeah. You know what? I'll say this. A lot of honesty is inspirational by itself.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

That's true. Cause I think it lets us know. Like, wait, you feel the same way?

[Jonathan McReynolds]

Yeah.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Cause a lot of us feel the same way. We just are scared to say it for sure. Yeah.

[Jonathan McReynolds]

You know, I tell Everybody, man, if you Google, like, the weirdest symptoms, like, my pinky toe is turning blue, like, right now.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

That's how I feel.

[Jonathan McReynolds]

That's how I feel. You know, the left part of my right knee is. It feels tingly, whatever. When you type that into Google, not only will Google finish it out, but you'll have thousands of search results from all these people that also felt the same way. So I've always gone that way. When it comes to songwriting, even the most specific thing about you is gonna free somebody else. Your honesty is inspiring. And then, of course, I'm going to point to the real big answer at the end, that this is all for God's glory.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Absolutely.

[Jonathan McReynolds]

The relationship will help with all of this, man. To me, I don't have to choose between inspiring and honesty, because to me, only honest things are inspiring.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah, I love that. That's. That's amazing. In closing, I. I want to ask you, can you share a word or a prayer or reminder? Because we talk about being seen for someone who feels unseen or unheard. Today.

[Jonathan McReynolds]

As a. As a gospel artist, am I supposed to just be having these things off the top of my head? But, yeah. Okay.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Now that you speak from your own truth and, like.

[Jonathan McReynolds]

Yeah. Yeah. I think. I would want everybody to know that God has a lot of capacity for us. I think capacity is the word that keeps popping in my head. I remember when I was young, I would be real smart Alec to Pete. I be like, I'd be telling them stuff you don't know that you don't know what you're talking about. You know what I'm saying? And that's my third grade teacher. I got a D that year in behavior. Not from fighting nobody, Just being smart Alec.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

He was a little boosie.

[Jonathan McReynolds]

Yeah. But, you know, like. But I realized I was really just testing to see which one of these adults around me had capacity enough for me. Because I knew I was smart. I had a lot of thoughts. Which one of y' all is smart enough that I can relax, that I can rest? Which one of y' all is smart enough? Fellas, we always thinking about which situation is strong enough that I could actually take off my cape at the end of the day.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah.

[Jonathan McReynolds]

I want you to know that right now, God has the capacity for you. All of you.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah.

[Jonathan McReynolds]

You don't have you. Matter of fact, you can be smart alec with God right now if you like. Go ahead. Give him your best shot. Even if church did not have enough capacity for you, the way you are, the way you express yourself, the way you look, the way you come off, the way you think God does. And I'm not saying that he loves, you know, he's gonna leave it as is. But I will say, the way that you are, you can go to him with the raw stuff, with the messed up stuff, the good, the bad, and the ugly, and he can take it. He ain't afraid of you.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Right?

[Jonathan McReynolds]

And please exercise that right, that access, to go to him boldly, come boldly before the throne and let him know who you are, where you are. You'll find out. He already knew anyway.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Listen, every single time. That is so good. I needed that. So thank you. Okay, so our theme this season is unapologetic. What is one thing that you are unapologetic for in this season?

[Jonathan McReynolds]

All right, so you gotta know my context. You gotta know that sometimes my self confidence ain't as high as should be.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Really.

[Jonathan McReynolds]

But this year, I'm unapologetically good.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Come on.

[Jonathan McReynolds]

Come on, man. I'm unapologetically competent. I'm unapologetically ready for every stage, every room. I'm unapologetically good.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

I love that.

[Jonathan McReynolds]

And I ain't gonna keep second guessing myself, period.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yup, I know that's right. Thank you. I love that. That's good. Thank you so much, Jonathan. I appreciate you for coming by. Thank you. Let the fans know where I can follow you. And if there's anything else that we miss that we can support you on, I'm telling you, the Kiss family, they're ride or dies. They're gonna jump behind you and we're gonna push you on. But, yeah, if there's anything else that you wanna let us know that you have going on so we can support.

[Jonathan McReynolds]

Sure. No, I appreciate y'. All. I appreciate you. I'm a big fan of you.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Thank you.

[Jonathan McReynolds]

How you carry yourself, how you represent all the different communities that you represent, including, of course, the faith community. Yeah. Thank you. And so I thank you, and it's an honor. Thank you. This is a big day to meet you in real life.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Oh, thank you.

[Ben (Shopify Sponsor)]

Same.

[Jonathan McReynolds]

So, yeah, but you can always go to my website, jonathanmcreynolds.com, i'm on Instagram, like every other millennial in the world. LikeReynolds. That's the hub. For real?

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yes.

[Jonathan McReynolds]

TikTok on McReynoldstock, Facebook, all that stuff. And so look out for my new albums coming out 327. It's called Closer. It'll be everywhere that you listen to music. There's a couple videos already up on YouTube so go check that out. And if you are about a year late, but check out my book before youe Climb Any Higher as well. I think that it has something to say to a lot of people no matter where you are in your climb.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

I love it. We'll add that to my unofficial book club.

[Jonathan McReynolds]

I love it. That's what's up.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yes. We need to make that official, babe.

[Jonathan McReynolds]

Come on. Yeah, make it official.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah. I'm always posting what I'm reading and then the girls will go buy it. So yeah, we'll do that. Thank you so much.

[Jonathan McReynolds]

Thank you. I appreciate it.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Absolutely. This is awesome. This conversation is a reminder that Faith doesn't have to be perfect perfect to be real. It just has to be honest. Thank you guys so much for tuning into another episode of the Keeping Positive Sweetie Show. Don't forget to Download the Season 10 Kids Reflection Guide to store all the gems that were dropped today for free at www.christorenehazlet.com. be sure to subscribe. Share this episode with someone who needs it and if you need advice, positivity, or question with something you're going through, please email us at keepitpositive outcomes gmail.com as always, stay blessed, stay encouraged, and keep it positive, Sweetie. I'll see you all next time.

[Jonathan McReynolds]

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