B (2:10)

Yeah, that makes me. What are you learning about this season?

A (2:13)

You know, what I am learning is that this is what I prayed for. A lot of times, I feel myself getting really stressed out. I'm like, oh, Lord, okay, I asked you to enlarge my territory, but I didn't know this is what came with it. Enlarging of the territory. So for me, I'm learning to just pause. Even yesterday, I had a situation with my stylist. Not to call you out, but I'm calling you out. She was supposed to send something for tonight yesterday. And I'm like, hey, where's the clothes? And she's like, oh, my gosh. I've been so swamped. I didn't get it. And I'm like, in the middle of studying to film next week. And normally I would have had a panic attack just thinking, like, I don't have time. So, like, it just messes everything up. When everything doesn't fall into place, I'm like, you know what? Give people grace, right? And you used to be a stylist. Figure it out. So, like, what's the solution? Cause I used to, like, have a little pity party. Now it's like, you know what? Find a solution. Breathe. Everything's fine, and everything's fine. That's the main thing. And you still got a job, so.

B (3:07)

Don'T worry about it all, girl.

A (3:09)

It's fine as long as my clothes get here today. But no, I'm learning to give myself grace and give other people grace, and that's the main thing. Because I feel like a lot of times we're so hard on ourselves. I had. I'm working on it. A perfectionist spirit where. And it came from a childhood. Like, everything had to be right just because I didn't want to get in trouble or I was scared to make a bad grade because I didn't. Certain different things I didn't want to happen. So, like, this perfection thing just carried through my whole life and even as an adult into relationships. Just everything had to be perfect. And that's just not life.

B (3:42)

No. Not even a little bit. Right, Right. Right.

A (3:46)

Seriously, have you ever dealt with anything like that?

B (3:48)

Man, I think my thing was once I figured I'd messed up, like, in the eyes of the church, in the eyes of my family. Once I became a teen mom, I felt like the bar was so low for me that there was no. There was no reason to try and be perfect. So I Think I just was like, we'll try whatever, we'll do whatever. And so I think coming to a space where I find worth and value in myself has allowed me to work on my own set of ethics that weren't based on someone else's opinion or perspective of who I was because I didn't have a lot to reach for.

A (4:25)

Wow, that is powerful. You touched on 14 year old Sarah.

B (4:30)

Yeah.

A (4:30)

I want to talk to 14 year old Sarah because we have a wide.

B (4:33)

Is this where you're gonna try and make me cry?

A (4:35)

No.

B (4:35)

Okay.

A (4:36)

No, I'm really. No, no, no, no, no. But we have like a wide range of age groups in this, in our community.

B (4:46)

Sure.

A (4:47)

I have high school girls all the way to women. Our more mature women, our seasoned women. Yes. So I want to talk to 14 year old Sarah because I know just being the daughter of Bishop, the Bishop TD Jakes already carries a weight of responsibility that you didn't ask for even as a child. You know what I'm saying? Growing up in the church and the church can be one of the most judgmental places that there is. What was that like? And the mental of 14 year old Sarah realizing, oh, my goodness, I've made a mistake, and what you probably felt was a grave mistake in the eyes of a pastor's daughter, you know, I.

B (5:25)

Was so young, so I was technically 13 when I got pregnant. I was so young that the worst thing I could think about was like, oh my gosh, I'm gonna get a whooping. I'm gonna get grounded.

A (5:36)

Right.

B (5:36)

I wasn't even thinking about the implications of, like, having a child. All I could think about is how my parents would respond to it, was their response that let me know that this is bigger than trouble, like, your life has changed. There was something about the way they responded that made me realize, this isn't something grounding's gonna fix. This isn't something that we're gonna take the TV away. I had no idea what it meant to be a parent. I had no idea. And then their grief let me know that this is gonna be hard. And then I began to realize, like, not only am I gonna have to pick whatever it means to be a parent at 14 years old, I'm also going to have to do it with this audience.

A (6:19)

Right.

B (6:20)

And so the first time anyone at the church even knew that I was pregnant, I had my son in October. So by Mother's Day, my parents knew the Mother's Day before I had him, and I wasn't showing. But there was a family Friend who knew. And my father did a prayer for mothers in the church, and he asked the mothers to stand. And this woman grabs me by my hand and. And has me stand up. What?

A (6:44)

I just got chills. What?

B (6:46)

It was. That was. Yeah.

A (6:49)

Messy, like, girl, what is your. I know Syreta was like, ma', am, but that's.

B (6:54)

See, I think part of how. I think I even ended up pregnant was like. So my parents, when we lived in West Virginia, that's where I was born, we would. Like, it was a smaller family church. We'd all sit together when we moved to Dallas because of just how that church was set up. Like, my parents sat on the platform, and we sat on the floor. And so that separation at, like, 7, 8 years old was the beginning of me feeling like I don't know where I fit. And then we had 1500 people join the church that Sunday. And so it's like, you mean something to them, but you don't really know what you mean to them. And then I don't have this comfort or security blanket, which would have been my parents. And so she didn't even know until after service. My sister was so upset. Oh, I bet you my sister was so upset.

A (7:38)

That wasn't the place for that or her place to do that.

B (7:41)

Yeah.

A (7:41)

How did you feel in that moment? Were you just, like, humiliated? Like, what are you.

B (7:44)

Yeah. That was the beginning of shame. That was the beginning of shame. I think before then, like, I knew my life had changed. I was still probably trying to figure out what that meant. I knew my parents were grieving and working through something, but the beginning of embarrassment and ashamed happened before I was even showing.

A (8:01)

Wow.

B (8:02)

And it just carried on throughout then wondering, like, what do people think about me? Or knowing what people thought about me. You know, people like, you know, fast girls are contagious. So, like, we gotta pull our daughters away from you. So that was an interesting stage.

A (8:19)

It's funny, when you say fast girls are contagion, we had to pull our daughters away from you. I remember my brother, he had gotten in trouble when he was younger. And as parents, you want to. When you have. When you see other people's children saying, don't hang around him because he's a troublemaker.

B (8:34)

Yeah.

A (8:35)

And your son hasn't done anything yet. But then when your son gets in trouble and you feel what it feels like for other parents, be like, stay away from him.

B (8:42)

Yeah.

A (8:42)

It's a different feeling. And you're like, oh. Then you realize what that feels like. And it's not until it's your child that people are saying, don't hang around that one. Or don't, she's a troublemaker. Or he's a troublemaker. That they realize, oh, this is what I was doing too, to understand their kids.

B (8:57)

And it's so interesting now that I am a parent, I think that, like, separation is what we use instead of conversation. So instead of talking about, like, what types of conversations are you all having at your age? And like, how did you feel about that? And like, what do you think about your own body and your own. Like, we don't have conversations, we just separate. Which doesn't necessarily keep it from happening because unless we're having communication with our children, we're just setting them up to do something with a different friend group, you know?

A (9:26)

Exactly. That's so true. How do you have transparent and vulnerable conversations with your kids?

B (9:31)

Oh, my goodness. Okay. Cause you know, now I like, I'm probably overboard. They're probably sick of me, Mom. So a few years ago, my daughter was singing a song in the car. It was like some Lizzo song. And she. Whatever it was, I don't remember exactly the song, but whatever it was, I could tell she was talking about something nasty, but she was. It had some candy on it, so it wasn't nasty nasty. And so I paused it and I was like, what do you think she just meant by that? And she was like, I don't know. I just like to be. I was like, what she's talking about is someone that I'm using, like the biological names, body parts, like, they're talking about this happening there. And she was like, ugh. I was like, isn't that. Isn't that terrible?

A (10:10)

Let me break this down.

B (10:11)

Cause I just want you to understand that like, part of the messages that are being sent are so sugar coated that you will be bopping your head to something that you actually think is gross. And I'm like, okay, the beat. Like, I'm not trying to take your little shoulder bop away. I just want you to know that while your shoulders are bopping, they're trying to send you a message.

A (10:27)

Exactly.

B (10:28)

And so she was early in her life when we started asking, when we had that conversation. Another thing I've done is I'm like, anything in the world that you ask me, I will answer. Because if you were grown enough to ask me, like, if it's circling in your world, circling in your thoughts, I want you to know that no matter what, if you ask me, I will tell you the truth. And my girls take Full advantage of this. I tell my husband sometimes some of the stuff they're asking me, he be like, oh.

A (10:54)

He's like, oh, Lord, don't ask you.

B (10:56)

Right?

A (10:57)

Like, do not ask me that.

B (10:58)

But it's. It's really funny to hear what's happening in their school. Like, I'm keeping up with all their friends and like, ooh, what's she talking about? How's her friend? How are things with her mom? I'm not like the other moms. I'm a cool mom. Right, Right.

A (11:10)

I can sense that.

B (11:11)

But it helps me to keep a pulse on their world. My kids are really, really important to me. And in the scheme of all of what's happening in my life, I just want them to always feel center stage. And I want them to know that I want to be a part of your world. You're not just in my world. I want to be a part of your world. And we work towards that.

A (11:30)

I love. That is amazing.

B (11:32)

Thank you. I love being a mom.

A (11:34)

Okay, now let me tell you something personal. I go back and forth if I want to have kids. I'm 41 now, and I'm like, you know, as we get older, it's harder to have kids. And PD I go to change church. Dr. Darius Daniels, and he told the story about Sarah, and I was like, well, maybe I'll have a Sarah moment where later on in life, if God's willing, then I'll have a child. But I am so scared to bring up a child into the world that it is today. Cause it's not like it was when we were growing up. Yeah, it is so different. And I just think about all the influence from social media to the music, for sure. You know, even, like, the music we listened to back then in the 90s, they were saying some freaky stuff too.

B (12:09)

They weren't.

A (12:10)

And now that I'm growing, I'm like.

B (12:13)

I know the fact that I could rap word for word. Ludacris song. I want to do things in the back of the car. I mean, word for word.

A (12:25)

Word for word.

B (12:26)

I know I was sick. When I think about it in context, like, now I'm like, no wonder you got pregnant. It's not like sex didn't exist in your world. Like, R. Kelly was out here talking about ignition keys, ignition. Like, there was a curiosity in the music. And that has really helped me to forgive myself, too. Because a lot of times I was just looking at what I did, but not the context that I was raised in when I made those choices. So my Parents are busy, they're working. And I am literally being raised by the culture. Yep. I'm being raised by hip hop. I'm being raised by music. And so it was not as far off as people. People made it seem, even seeing my daughter years ago, we're listening to a song, she's 14 now, and they're talking about sex in the song. And so it's not as like, oh, my gosh, where did this come from?

A (13:11)

Right? It's everywhere.

B (13:13)

It's everywhere.

A (13:14)

And you turn TV on. It's on the tv. It's in the music. It's on social media, like, everywhere you turn. I was just like, ooh. I was like, do I wanna bring up a child? Cause I know how protective I am of my nieces and nephews and people I love. I would get on my child's nerves. They'd be like, mama, please. I'd be like, what you doing? Where you going?

B (13:30)

I totally support the women's, you know. Right. To be able to say, I don't know if motherhood is gonna be my thing. Like, I may be the rich auntie vibes. Cause it's very much giving me rich auntie vibes in here. Definitely not giving toys. Langer. I'm gonna be honest with you.

A (13:47)

Oh, my gosh.

B (13:48)

It's not giving diapers. But, you know. You know, it could if you wanted.

A (13:52)

To, if you don't want to.

B (13:53)

But it could not if you don't want it to.

A (13:55)

I got a basement that's all. The walls are black.

B (13:57)

Okay.

A (13:57)

The dark furniture's dark down there. They can go down.

B (13:59)

They can go down there, do all of the messing.

A (14:03)

My brother's girlfriend was changing my nephew's diaper on that sofa back there.

B (14:08)

How'd it go?

A (14:09)

Custom sofa.

B (14:09)

Yeah.

A (14:10)

And I came. I said, can you put him on the floor? She's like, oh, I'm not. She's like, I'm not gonna let you. Can you put him on the floor.

B (14:17)

Just to be safe?

A (14:18)

Yeah, just to be safe. I don't need. No. I was like. And it's so funny, because he'll come through here hands on everything.

B (14:24)

Oh, yeah.

A (14:25)

And sometimes I tell the cleaning ladies, just leave that there, just so I can see, like, his little handprint on the window. I'm like, well, maybe I could.

B (14:31)

It is an incredible journey. It's an incredible journey to see a version of yourself, but also to experience. Experience this person who has their unique imprint and identity. It's. It's petrifying, it's exciting, but it's one of. It's one of the things I love. It is. I mean, I love being my husband's wife.

A (14:55)

Yes.

B (14:56)

But it's one of the things I love the most in my world.

A (14:59)

That's amazing. You talk about how you want your children to feel like they're a part of your life, not just in your life and a part of her book. You get to the note you talked about. Here we go. You talked about. Imagine me. Imagine with me, you're standing in an empty parking lot with reserve spaces. You can't tell what each spot is labeled, but each time a new expression of your identity is added. A car pulls into a spot, eventually you see that there are spots labeled child, friend, sibling, partner, leader, student, entrepreneur or colleague. Each spot with its own car. When you are navigating the responsibilities of your life, you're moving from one vehicle to the next. So you were on this tour, seven city tour. How are you finding time for your children, your husband, your team? You got so much going on. Like, how do you balance it all? Preaching, you're doing everything.

B (15:50)

Well, I put a lot of time in with the family before I go on the road.

A (15:53)

That's good.

B (15:54)

A lot of time. So my husband and I are usually taking them to school. My husband and I are picking them up. So my whole world fits around their school schedule.

A (16:02)

That's amazing.

B (16:03)

Like after 2:30, I can't take any meetings. Like maybe I could take something at 4:30 when I get home. But my world centers around them when I'm home. So that when I tell them that I need to take some time to do the thing that I get to do that I love to do, that makes me feel fulfilled. They are more willing because I put in a lot of time at home. Even then we're doing a lot of texting, a lot of FaceTiming. I was on FaceTime last night with my daughter having. She's eight. We were definitely having some girl time, some girl talk, but I stay in touch with them. Then my husband's on the road with me too and he's like also helping me to facilitate everything connected with the tour. But he's also my soft place when it's finished. Because a lot of this requires me to be more extroverted than I am naturally and to have more energy than I usually do. And I always tell people, people like, he knows how much it cost me to be me.

A (16:55)

Wow.

B (16:56)

And so when the day is over, to be able to have someone who's like, I know that was expensive.

A (17:00)

Yeah.

B (17:01)

It grounds me.

A (17:02)

That is so good. Yeah, I'm the same way. I am, like, introverted, but then I'm. They tell me I'm the most introverted, extrovert person they know.

B (17:10)

Really?

A (17:11)

Yes. Because my social battery runs very fast.

B (17:14)

Okay.

A (17:14)

And I'm like, okay, I need.

B (17:16)

I need a minute.

A (17:16)

I go to my corner so I can recharge, and then I can back. And I'm like, okay, let's have some fun.

B (17:21)

That's. See, I'm only introverted.

A (17:24)

I sense it when you come.

B (17:25)

You like, I'm so weird. I be trying to tell people. They're like, I would love to spend the day with you. I was like, you would be so disappointed. I am so socially awkward. It's not even funny. Like, it takes so much for me to be like, all right, I'm gonna go talk to people. Like, in a room full of people, girl. People think because you can put words together that that means you're not introverted. But it's like, just because I know how to use words doesn't mean I want to use them.

A (17:50)

Right? That part. No. That is so true. I'm the same. Literally, the same way. My friends tell me that she'll ask me if I want to do something. I'm like, no, no. And she goes, you say no. So easy. And, like, with no. Like, no, because no. There is no because no, I can't do it.

B (18:06)

I can't. I can't.

A (18:08)

I can't. Denora will tell you that there's times where I'm like, ooh. Like, I just need a minute. And she's like, the best housemate because she knows, like, as soon as we're done working, go to our respective corners. Like, she goes, take a break. And it's almost like nobody's here. And I'm like, this is great.

B (18:23)

Yeah, I love that. I love traveling with people who, like, don't make me feel like we're traveling together.

A (18:28)

Yes. Yes. I learned that with Tyler. Styling him. Yeah. Understanding that this person has a million things going on, they don't need me talking. They just need to feel like you're not there almost.

B (18:38)

That's the thing. That's the thing. Cause a lot of times when I am working with someone intimately, like, they're like, now here's my chance to, like, tell you all of the things that I want to tell you, and it's.

A (18:48)

Not, I need you. You're doing this. I need you.

B (18:53)

A little less. Please. Are you my kids? Especially because, I mean, when I'm with my kids, like, they're talking 24 7. So if I'm constantly around talking, so silence refuels me. So I need silence.

A (19:04)

Same. I am the same way. Oh, my goodness. You talked about Terra being your pastor Ture. What's the title? I'm making sure I'm doing it right the respectful way. Pastor Ture, being your soft space, especially when you're on the road. Do you remember the first person that made you feel seen and safe?

B (19:22)

Ooh. Okay. Yes. The first, I'm gonna say people who made me feel seen and safe were the people who were around my parents. So there's their head of security, who is my son's godfather, Sean Smith. There was a gentleman who worked in our home. His name was Anthony Smith. He died suddenly, and it felt like, you know, losing an adoptive father. But he was there throughout my pregnancy and said, baby girl, you gonna be all right. Like, baby girl, you gonna make it through this. And Cami Garner, who was my mom's assistant, she's still a part of my mom's team, and she's been there for, like, 20 years. Even though my parents were balancing all of these things, there were these people around them that took such good care of me that they made me feel seen, like, and valued just for who I was.

A (20:18)

That is beautiful. That is beautiful. I know. Oftentimes, I'm sure being Bishop Jake's daughter, you feel like it takes a team.

B (20:26)

For sure, you know?

A (20:27)

And I'm sure those people helped fulfill a lot of those spots where maybe daddy wasn't there. Mama was busy because he was all over the world.

B (20:33)

All over the world? The world, especially. At the age that I was growing up, things had, like, really taken off. So he would, like, preach on. There were, like, three services on Sunday, a Saturday service. He'd get on the plane, and he'd, like, preach at all of these different churches, come home on Saturday, and then, like, leave again on Sunday, like, 24 7. And sometimes my mom would go with him. It would just, like, we didn't know, like, when he was coming, when he was going. But there were these people who would, like, take the time to be there for us and tote us around the things, and. Yeah, God sends help.

A (21:08)

Yeah. No, for sure. It wasn't long ago that your father passed down the torch of woman there are loose. And in that moment, he didn't lose his power, but you gained a huge set of responsibility and power in that. What was that like?

B (21:24)

So everyone knew that woman thou art loose was coming to an end. And they were like, you know, you're next, you're next. But Woman Evolved had already existed. So I was a little confused with, like, I don't know what people. Like, I'm like, I don't know what y' all think is about to happen here. Cause like, you.

A (21:38)

When he put that coat on your shoulders, Done.

B (21:42)

I was like, ah, it's hard to fall. He dragged me so low. He dragged me solo. First of all, I'm like, okay, so he's going to honor what Woman Evolve is in the context of Woman dart loose. I'm like, that's the extent of it. Like, maybe he's going to tell people, hey, Woman Evolve. But I did not think it was going to be this whole entire thing.

A (22:03)

Yes.

B (22:03)

And it was a thing, baby.

A (22:05)

It was a thing.

B (22:06)

It was a whole thing, down to a video of, like, how we got here. And. Yeah, so that was ugly. Crying for the world to see.

A (22:17)

That was probably tears for the whole year.

B (22:18)

Oh, you know, I have a limit. I have a limit. So I can't fool with you today. So don't even. I'm not really. You know what I mean? I'm a little. Cause I don't know what you're trying to do to me today.

A (22:27)

I got you.

B (22:28)

But I will say that above, like, what it meant for, like, Woman Evolved and women that are loose. Like, that was less important to me as much as. And I didn't know this until afterwards, the fact that my father is probably poured so much of his life into Woman thou art loose. And for him to say, I'm going to lay this at your feet, like, my influence, the knowledge that I have these people who I have walked through so many different stages of life. I trust you with them, and I trust that you can handle whatever comes with this platform. It restored a part of me that felt like I had lost his job trust, you know, not just through my pregnancy, but after I got pregnant, I was just kind of like, I just prepare for disappointment out of me. Like, I'm not going to do any of the things you want me to do. I waitressed at the strip club. I dropped out of college. They bought me a car when I was 16. I was like, you know what? I don't want the car. Because I don't want you thinking you're going to be able to tell me what to do. Like, I'm my own person. I gave the car back. I went to a car lot, got my own car. Like, I was conscious. I don't want the expectations. I'M gonna make it on my own. And I did, like. I mean, I got this incredible job. I was working for an Air Force contractor. Then I became a receptionist, an office manager, government clearance. Like, I was making my own path.

A (23:47)

Wow.

B (23:47)

And I think I began to prove to him that I had the work ethic to take care of myself. And he was like, all right. You know, I didn't agree with the path you took, but I see that you're making. But I don't know that I ever felt like the trust was fully restored from those moments.

A (24:03)

Wow.

B (24:04)

Until that moment, until then.

A (24:06)

Wow. So how old were you then? Like, how much time had passed? So you felt like this has been restored in this moment?

B (24:13)

I think I will say that I felt like he respected me. I felt like he loved me. I felt like there had been forgiveness. But my dad's life, he has poured his life into his work.

A (24:25)

Yeah.

B (24:25)

And he's very protective about his work. So that level of trust, man. I mean, 20 years.

A (24:34)

Wow.

B (24:34)

Yeah. 20 years.

A (24:36)

So now you are carrying this towards. You're at. You're an assistant pastor at Potter's house in Dallas.

B (24:41)

Yeah.

A (24:42)

What. What is. What does that weight feel like? And how do you carry that every week? Because I'm sure, like, those are some big shoes to step in.

B (24:50)

I do not see it that way. I don't see it that way. I think if I saw it that way, it would scare me.

A (24:56)

Yeah. Because I would be scared. That's what I would imagine. That's good that you're not.

B (24:59)

Yeah. I don't see it that way. Only because I never asked for this. So when we were in Brooklyn, we're standing in this beautiful theater, and I'm like, there are. Sometimes I don't always feel, I guess, deserving of the influence and the impact because there are some people who. Who are like, I always knew one day that I would be standing in a room like this. I always knew one day that I would inspire millions of people. I never felt that way. I never, like, wanted this. I want to be a good steward over it. I love it, I respect it, I honor it. But I never wanted it. And I'm careful to try and manipulate something that God placed in my lap. I feel like my response is responsibility is to protect it, not manipulate it. And so even with us being positioned in Dallas as assistant pastors, I feel like my job is to stay pure, to stay authentic, to stay obedient, but not to then think that this is something that is mine when it's something that God's given me. So it's interesting.

A (26:01)

Yeah. You saying that you didn't feel deserving. And in your book, you dedicated it to any who wonders if they are enough. Yeah, so I hear. I understand that now. Because I know there's still today. There's moments where I'm like, I don't know if I'm made for this or I don't know if I deserve that, you know, and even the life that I live, because I've made mistakes, you know, we've all made them. And a lot of them, we carry it harder than God does a lot of stuff he done forgave us for. And I'm still carrying this on my back, like, oh, Lord, please. You know what I'm saying? Like, just praying that I've been forgiven for certain things. Things. And then to look around like, I am so undeserving, you know, and then trying to get out of that, saying, no, I'm a child of God. This is what he wants from me.

B (26:40)

You know?

A (26:42)

At what point did you. Or have you gotten to the point where you feel like, I am enough, I do deserve this. Or do you still walk in that? Like, I know you said that you're like, dang.

B (26:59)

I don't know that I feel like, influence is something that, like, I deserve. I want to say this right, because, like, I know what I feel in my heart. It's something that I honor. But I see God loving on me not from the fact that I have influence or that my life means a lot to a lot of people. I see God loving on me in the way that love comes through the people who are closest to me and that I have been able to accept. I will say that one of the things I'm, like, trying to work through sometimes when I'm on the road, people are like, oh, my gosh, I love you so much. And your messages have helped me. They've touched me. And one of the things I'm working through is, like, that doesn't feel safe to me because I think that. I think a lot of it's rooted in what I've gone through. But the idea that someone can love you, but you could disappoint them, and then you could be the girl that nobody wants to be around anymore makes me feel unsafe with that level of love. And so I think that I keep a healthy distance with the influence part of it. And, you know, that could be healthy or not healthy. We'll see. I'll talk to my therapist about it. But it's hard to feel safe and influenced. So the influence part, I just try to honor and protect. But my family, that's where I feel God's love.

A (28:30)

The most absolute. Oh, my goodness. It's so crazy to say it, because as my. I don't like to call them fans, but my community grows, so many people kind of stand over me like that.

B (28:41)

Oh, my God.

A (28:42)

Crystal, Crystal, Crystal. And that level of love. You're my best friend in my head. You're my sister. In my head. I love you so much. I wake up and watch your videos every day. You kept me alive. I didn't kill myself because of you. That's a different.

B (28:53)

It's different.

A (28:54)

It's scary. It really is. And like you said, one day you can love me. And if I do make one mistake. Oh, you're written. Cancel.

B (29:01)

Culture is real, and we see it happen all the time. I want to believe, like, so I call the community that's connected with woman and the delegation. Part of why I've been really intentional about, like, being authentic. And, like, here I am. I'm on a journey just like the rest of you, is that, like, I know I may disappoint you at some point. I'm not intentionally going to disappoint you. Like, I'm not out here living one thing and saying a different thing. Like, I am a woman of integrity, and I'm living the very thing that I say to you. Even then, I know that we may not agree about some things, and I want to believe that, like, we can work through and grow through anything. But I don't know, like. Yeah.

A (29:39)

Cause people, like, they're so quick to cut you off.

B (29:40)

Yeah, for sure.

A (29:42)

Yeah. So I understand when you say, like, your family and those are close to you is where you feel the safest and the most loved. Cause it's the same way with me. Because I know these are people that's gonna ride with me. If I fall down, they're gonna help me get back up. And I'm not just gonna, like, walk over me and be like, all right, girl, we're done with you.

B (29:56)

I know. I want to believe, though. And sometimes I remind myself of the. Because even the people who have been canceled haven't been canceled. Like, there are still some people who really rock with them who are like, you know, I love them. And so I also don't want to make the people who would be willing to grow with me feel like I don't trust them either. Because there are some people. I mean, you know, I've seen a lot of people who look like, oh, my gosh, this is their downfall. They're never going to recover from this. But there was a space. So I don't know. We'll see what happens.

A (30:28)

Oh, that's so true. You talked about you're going to talk to your therapist about it. A lot of people don't want to mix Jesus with therapy. When did you realize that God did create other tools of resources that you could talk to someone and still believe that your source is Jesus Christ?

B (30:43)

My relationship with God has become much more deeper as a result of me being in therapy, because there were moments where I felt something that I could. Could not give language. So my prayer was not as effective.

A (30:54)

Right.

B (30:54)

You know, just kind of like, God help me, God help me, God help me. But to be able to say, like, God, I am feeling anxious about this transition that's taking place in my life, and I need your spirit to meet me in the place of my anxiety. Like, my prayer life became so much better. It was probably, honestly, after I dropped my book Woman Evolve, it hit the New York Times bestsellers list. And one of my friends came over. She's like, oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh. And I was like, you know what I mean? Like, I was like, I feel like I should probably be happy about this, but I don't feel anything at all. And so I started, like, reading some books. And then once I went through a few books, I'm like, you probably should talk to someone. But what I learned is that, like, I have just been, like, emotionally frozen because I was overwhelmed by shame and regret and depression that I can function and work and hit markers and hit goals, but I can't celebrate myself. I don't know Joy. I don't even know anger. Like, people can disappoint me. I don't let it get to me because I won't own or advocate for what I'm feeling in any given moment. And so I feel like I've become a much better partner, a much better leader, and a much better believer as a result of me going to therapy.

A (32:09)

Yeah, same. My therapist definitely opened me up. My therapist and I just talked about what I just learned was the mother wound. And you did an episode with your mom entitled Trauma to Hope. You also read the book, which is a book that Dinora introduced me to adult children of emotionally immature parents.

B (32:28)

Yes.

A (32:30)

What was that like, opening up to your mom, like, and her actually apologizing for not being there the way that you needed her to be?

B (32:37)

It was interesting because we've Never had the conversation before. I just came to a place where I was like, I'm gonna do this work on my own. I'm not gonna invite either of my parents to be a part of this journey. Cause I don't know where they are and I don't know that they're gonna be receptive to this. So I'm gonna just figure it out on my own. And I think I was actually doing. I was at that stage when we had this conversation and out of nowhere, she started it. Out of nowhere, she said something like, I think I was talking about being nervous about moving back to Dallas because I didn't want to, you know, I wanted to keep my family close. And she was like, please do that. I didn't do that with you all.

A (33:12)

I was like, just, oof. The accountability and saying it.

B (33:16)

She just said it.

A (33:17)

Wow.

B (33:18)

Like, she just said it. I was like, I didn't, I didn't know that you knew that.

A (33:24)

Like, wow.

B (33:25)

I felt that, but I didn't know that you knew that. And that was. I think I instantly turned into a 7, 8 year old girl.

A (33:33)

I was about to say, what did that do for 7, 8 year old Sarah? I was gonna ask you that. In that moment, I know she spoke to that child.

B (33:39)

Mommy sees me. Like, it was like being at the Potter's house, Dallas, surrounded by thousands of people, and my mom grabbing my hand and saying, I see you.

A (33:51)

Wow.

B (33:52)

And you're not by yourself. That's like, it doesn't matter how difficult your relationship with your child has been, even if they're an adult. Oftentimes we think it's too late.

A (34:05)

Yeah.

B (34:05)

But that wound is still there. And as long as you're still here, you have an opportunity to speak into that wound. And it really does restore, it really does heal. I think sometimes it can be discouraging for a parent when it's like, okay, I can see some areas where I messed up, but there's nothing I can do about it now. That's not true. By acknowledging it, you can do something with what's left. You can do something with where they're still growing and healing. And my mom did that for me in a way I didn't anticipate.

A (34:33)

That is beautiful.

B (34:34)

I was, I was. First of all, we were supposed to just be having like a little cute Christmas, cute Christmas chat. And all of a sudden she was like, I didn't do. And because it was so raw for me, I just immediately broke down in tears. And then she said something. She was like, anything I can Clear up. Talk about, ask. Like, you tell me now. She's like, because my mom's not here, and I'll never get answers. And so now I have this woman who's in her 60s saying, I still have questions that I'll never get an answer to. So as long as I can be your answer, I'll share it.

A (35:06)

Yeah. That is beautiful.

B (35:08)

Geez. I, I. My mom is so. I mean, everyone's like, you know, you're TDJ's daughter, and I am. But my mother, yes.

A (35:16)

Yeah, talk about it.

B (35:17)

She is the absolute best. She is so sensitive, but also resilient and strong and hilarious and loyal and, like, she's just the absolute best I can remember. I was going through it. I was in college, and I was going to football games in college, and they were having, like, family day at one of the football games, but there was this girl me and this girl had gotten into, and I said I was, like, sending my mom a screenshot of it. We were just talking about it offline. And then so my parents at the football game, and I saw the girl coming, but I was like, you know, I'm not gonna look at her. She's not gonna look at me. My mom stands up. I was like, girl, sit down. Girl, sit down. What are you doing? How did you even remember that was her? Sit down. She was like, what are we doing? I was like, please sit down.

A (36:06)

She's that friend.

B (36:07)

She is.

A (36:07)

Everybody needs a friend like that girl. What we doing?

B (36:10)

She is that.

A (36:12)

I love that.

B (36:13)

I be trying to calm her down. I'm like, you're 60 something. They think you're a queen. Put your crown on.

A (36:20)

She's like, we're gonna set this aside for right now.

B (36:22)

For sure she will take that crown off in a minute. She has told some stories, even, like, on my podcast at events, about, like, being doing things. I'm just like, can you please stop telling people about you stealing? She's probably like, when you stop telling them you waitress at this strip club. Okay, that denial passed.

A (36:40)

I was like, she waitress at the strip club?

B (36:42)

Yeah.

A (36:43)

That's crazy.

B (36:45)

I was out here. I had ends to meet, period.

A (36:49)

Listen, I just told Dinora a strip club story the other day when we used to go out to the club with these guys and they would give us all these ones.

B (36:55)

Yeah.

A (36:55)

I had ends meet, too. So I be throwing and putting a little more. That's the light bill, right? That's the cable bill.

B (37:05)

As long as it gets spent, they were prepared to spend it anyway.

A (37:07)

Exactly. I was like, I'm here, so let me get a little bit of this.

B (37:11)

Yes.

A (37:12)

I'm gonna take care of the girls.

B (37:13)

Too, but I need to get my cut.

A (37:15)

That is hilarious. Your mom, I love that.

B (37:18)

She's amazing.

A (37:19)

And that's inspiring, even for me, as I did an episode called get to Know Me and where I just put it all out there and just with family and friends. What your story's inspiring me is just to open up and even maybe me be the person to bring up the conversation how your mom just said it, you know? So that's inspiring for me as well.

B (37:39)

It's good.

A (37:39)

I appreciate that.

B (37:40)

It's good. People are more willing to have. Like, we talk about family sweeping stuff underneath the rug, like, this is the way that we do things. But I have found that the person who doesn't mind, like, going under the rug and be like, hey, can we talk about this? Like, they don't mind talking about it. It's just we have been so conditioned to think that we don't talk about it, that no one's courageous enough to say, hey, I have some questions. Like, I want to know about this person. I want to know what is in them that could be in me, too. And I have found that, especially for people as they're aging, and I think they're wanting to leave a legacy. They're wanting to leave an imprint that they're more willing to have conversations than we may give them credit for.

A (38:20)

I love that you just bless me. You talked about how your mother said that. I wish I had have been there more with your busy schedule and how you're. I mean, you're all over the place. How do you. God talks about the Sabbath. Do you take time or do you take time to, like, actually, this is my day?

B (38:41)

No, because. Well, like, technically, sure, like, there may be days where I'm not working, but because I have children, even the days when I'm not working, there is an element of working. So I have to be intentional about taking time off. So I think tour ends for me on a Tuesday and I'm going home. But I was like, I'm going to ask the older kids to take the younger kids to school. Because if tour ends on Tuesday and I got to be up as on Wednesday to take kids to school, it's like, yeah, tour is over. But, like, I just got reenlisted. It's a whole nother battlefield right here. And so I've had to ask for help to piece my Sabbath together. I used to just wait for a day when I'd be able to take it off. But now I've had to be proactive in asking for help in advance. And let me tell you, doing that, it changed my relationship. It changed the way that I show up in my world. Instead of being the person who allowed people to believe that I had limitless capacity, that I could get off on tour and jump into the mom thing and not skip a beat, I had to be willing to say, I actually do need to skip a beat because I can't dance this fast. And I think what part of the issue with being, like, the strong friend or the person who just has so much capacity is there is a little pride, a little ego stroking that comes when somebody's like, I can never do that. That you be like, but I. I did. I did it. You know what I mean? Now I'm probably depressed and I'm binge eating and I can't fit my clothes, but I pulled it off. And so I've had to learn to not seek out the accolades that come with overexertion.

A (40:22)

Yes.

B (40:23)

Ooh.

A (40:24)

Because we live in this society where it's like, you sleep when you're dead. No, I'm asleep after this.

B (40:28)

I don't believe that. I don't believe he wants that from me neither.

A (40:32)

I'm a napper. I have to have. I gotta get some rest.

B (40:35)

So I'm learning to really ask for additional support and not allow my ego to be fed by this relentless, you gotta keep going thing.

A (40:44)

So true. I had to do that. I'm not good at asking for help because I've always had to do everything on my own. And then finding good help, you know, like, I have, like, one or two people I can call on and depend on, and then everybody else I hire.

B (40:57)

Is like, well, you know, the. Okay, so. All right, so this is. I don't even know if this is gonna make the podcast at this point. This is so good. 1. My message tonight, like, God changed my message. And I think it's gonna help you. Cause it's about asking.

A (41:09)

Come on.

B (41:10)

See how he already did that?

A (41:11)

He already knew what I was struggling with.

B (41:13)

It's so ghetto. But, you know, part of the reason why I feel like it's like, we can't find good help is because when I say I want. I want someone who's gonna, like, work through the flu. Like, literally, I want someone who's gonna deplete themselves and overexert themselves, just like me.

A (41:33)

I need you, Michael Jordan, Game six.

B (41:34)

All the time. Cause, like, we're in it. And we don't have time for sickness. Like, and that's toxic. It's so toxic. I say all of that to say, like, I don't want you to be lazy. Like, I want you to push it a little bit. But, like, maybe I should stop.

A (41:53)

No, I'm the same way. I'm like, what do you mean you have a headache? What do you mean you're sick?

B (41:57)

Like, you can't come to work Cause you have a headache.

A (42:00)

But did you die?

B (42:01)

But are you.

A (42:03)

You breathing? Come on, let's go.

B (42:05)

What are you talking about? And then I had a baby at 14. I had time for no headache. And that's weird. That's my trauma setting standards for people. And so, you know, I need to give people a Tylenol. But I will say the people I work the best with are people who are like, yeah, we are a team of 10 people. But if all 10 of them fall off me, and you could do all of it.

A (42:28)

Right?

B (42:28)

And it's not true.

A (42:29)

It's true. We are going to.

B (42:31)

But they make me feel good. Yeah.

A (42:32)

It's like, I like you.

B (42:33)

Right? I like you. You sick like me. We got the same. Same disease. Literally.

A (42:41)

You stated that one of your toxic traits is believing that you can do anything.

B (42:45)

Anything.

A (42:45)

Literally. Somebody asked me that, and I'm like, I can do anything.

B (42:48)

I can. No, Like, I'm not even joking. And, like, this is not even a brag. I can do anything. Like, if God. If God can. If someone else can do it, I can do it.

A (42:59)

I think the same way. Sarah, I'm serious. Like, anything.

B (43:03)

Now, I did also say in that same paragraph that, like, I could build a house. It's gonna rain inside the house. Like, I'm not saying I can do anything. That I can do everything. Well, right, Exactly. But if you give me a few shots at it, I could get to. Well, yes, yeah, exactly.

A (43:21)

I'm the same way. I just had my live show, and I taught myself how to play piano, period. Like, I was like, I'm just gonna go buy a piano, get on YouTube and learn this.

B (43:29)

I don't see anything wrong with it. Yeah, it's like, I don't know if it's my. Like, I don't know if it's my husband's favorite thing about me. I don't know if his favorite thing about me. Cause I be like, babe, like, the handyman can't come. And the dresser just got delivered. And he was like, okay, just schedule him for next week. I was like, I just got the tool kit.

A (43:50)

By the time he gets home, it's.

B (43:51)

The dresser's gonna be put together now. The drawer's gonna need a little. Yeah, it might be a little off. And that is sick. That cannot be healthy. It cannot be healthy. I know it can't.

A (44:05)

He's like, why didn't you just let me wait for this?

B (44:07)

And I have not learned my lesson. Like, if you put my back against the wall right now.

A (44:12)

Yes.

B (44:13)

If the plane is going down, I can fly it.

A (44:15)

We gonna pull the same back.

B (44:16)

In the name of Jesus. We gonna pull the safety away. I don't believe God put me in this situation. Go out like this. I watched Flight with Denzel Washington. He did it high. I could do it with the Holy Ghost.

A (44:26)

Amen. Come on now.

B (44:27)

Period.

A (44:30)

You are my kind of girl. I'm telling you. I call myself a handy woman. My dad built every house we ever lived in. I grew up on construction sites. I have a toolbox. I have more than most men have in their house at my age, for sure. They're like, you got. Oh, I got that. I can do it. They were like, you fix that yourself?

B (44:45)

Like, yeah, that was my. So when I got married, I was a single mother with two children. I had my own house. So there were just certain things that, like, I was not used to asking, like, a man in the house to do. And my husband would be like, why didn't you ask me? I was like, I will ask when I need. But I didn't think I needed. So now I'm trying to be more like, I'm entering into more of my princess era, you know, where I'm asking for help. We were traveling somewhere. We got home. There's this big box that got delivered on a crate, stapled shut, screwed shut, and I got the hammer, and he was like, what are you doing? What are you. You just got off the plane. I was like, I want to see what's in the box.

A (45:20)

See what's in the box.

B (45:20)

Yes.

A (45:21)

Oh, my goodness. We are the same. That's me. I will, like, straighten my back trying to get furniture in here. It doesn't matter.

B (45:26)

It's fine.

A (45:27)

I would go to Craig and Barrel outlet and get a whole chair and be like.

B (45:30)

Because the other thing I will lift the whole chair by. I want things to be the way that I want them to be.

A (45:36)

Yes.

B (45:36)

And I don't want to wait on it.

A (45:38)

On it now. Instant gratification. I need it now.

B (45:40)

I mean it, Sarah.

A (45:42)

I'm the same way. I guess that is my toxic trait.

B (45:44)

It's toxic.

A (45:45)

Oh, my goodness.

B (45:46)

Because when I say back sprung.

A (45:49)

Listen.

B (45:49)

Okay. When I say back out, and you would think that it would keep you from doing it, but soon as that back act like she gonna be all right, we back to it. We're back at. Can't be healthy. I know. It can't.

A (46:01)

It is not.

B (46:02)

I'm a work in progress.

A (46:03)

Me too, girl. We gonna work on it.

B (46:05)

Maybe. Maybe it's gonna be hard.

A (46:07)

Cause it's been 41 years, me doing that. So that's a hard habit to break.

B (46:11)

It is.

A (46:12)

I don't know. It's something that just.

B (46:15)

It feels good once fulfillment is reward. I do think that so much of my life is out of my control. That, like, to be able to do what's in my control, that feels good to me.

A (46:27)

I like that.

B (46:28)

Like, there's so much that I'm not gonna be. Like, so much of this is going faster than I can keep up with. I don't know what's gonna happen. I'm so vulnerable. I'm so exposed. The least I can do is pick this chair up and put it in the corner where I want it. Yes. That's the least I can do.

A (46:44)

That's right. I love that. I love that for you and us. Oh, my goodness. So I'd be remiss if I didn't talk about your husband, the pastor, Trey Roberts. You are a powerhouse, and he is a powerhouse as well. So how do two powerhouses come together and also keep your individualism and support each other? How does that work?

B (47:06)

We have a lot of respect for one another.

A (47:08)

I see that.

B (47:09)

We have a lot of respect for one another. It's not a competition. I am fascinated by the gift of God in his life in a way that I can't even be jealous of. Like, he's so dope to me that I'm like, I can't even be jealous. I think you can be jealous of something that you think is within reach. It's so out of reach to me. I'm like, I don't even know how you think like that. I don't even know how you do what you do the way that you do. So all I can do is respect it and love it and be grateful that I'm on your squad. Cause I would hate to be your opposition, period. Do you understand? Yes.

A (47:41)

Yes. That's so good.

B (47:43)

But it took, like I said, like, that part about me. I was a single mother. I'd accomplished enough by myself to make me feel like I could live on My own. And so welcoming in his perspective and his covering and seeing the value in it without being intimidated by it.

A (48:01)

Yes.

B (48:02)

Was hard for me in the beginning stages of our life because I thought that his perspective made mine invalid, not broader.

A (48:11)

Ooh, that's good. Oh, my goodness. I can imagine that.

B (48:15)

Yeah.

A (48:16)

Yeah. I remember it was 2020 when I first, like, really caught onto one church, La, and I would watch you guys online, and then every time I would visit Los Angeles, I would come to church. And I remember if your face in the pulpit, you would sit on the left side in the front. I remember that. And I just remember just seeing, like, just kept growing and growing and growing. And then before I knew, you guys were in Denver and then Dallas, and I was like, oh, my goodness. But just the way he delivers the message, and then you come up and I'm like, wait a minute. These two both are doing it. You know what I'm saying? And everybody gets it. You know, sometimes people preach over your head. You guys are reaching people at the level that they are in a way that we can understand it. We see ourselves, and it inspires us to just be better people.

B (48:58)

Yeah, that means a lot to me. No, seriously, I wasn't in ministry. I wasn't in ministry when I met him. I was blogging. I was telling my little story, but I wasn't preaching. I wasn't praying out loud. So I was like, invite me to be on the panel. I'll offer some insights as a collective. But, you know, that solo dolo thing is not me. And his church was the first church where he was like, listen, if there is any place where you could come and tell your story at a church, like, it will be my church. Like, you'll be fine. And so he asked me to come speak on a Sunday in 2014. I was like, oh, I don't do Sundays.

A (49:37)

Call me on a Wednesday, baby.

B (49:39)

Friday night, Friday night, girls night. But Sundays, that's like, where the real people are. And so one was very much so the place where I feel like I found my unique voice in ministry. And I just felt like, okay, well, one will just be the place where I do ministry, because they get me. They understand me.

A (49:56)

Absolutely.

B (49:57)

And so I attribute a lot of my spiritual development to his anointing and my voice being cultivated in the spaces that he created. And then as I became more confident, I think as the gift began to grow and attract other people in other spaces that he's been a covering for me, that it's just like, just do you everywhere, you Go, yeah.

A (50:18)

Ooh, that's good. And that's important to have that type of support as a woman, just in general. Every woman needs that just type of support. It's like, baby, do you.

B (50:27)

Everywhere you go.

A (50:28)

Yeah.

B (50:29)

And it's funny. So like most of the time when we're in LA, people are like, oh, you're PT's wife. And then if we'll go somewhere, they're like, oh, you're SJR's husband. So it's like depending on where we are. Cause like most, when I tell you he is Hollywood, like on absolute lock, like New York, Atlanta, like we do not go anywhere without people being like, pt, pt, pt. So that's when he came in, I was like, PT for sure. So for me it's cool because I get to see my husband in his lane, in his purpose, with his unique identity. I'm in my lane, in my purpose, with my unique identity. And then when we get to come together, it's amazing. But what's better than all of that is like when we're doing none of those things and we're at home. I took my wig off the other day. I was so tired. I took my wig off. I was at home. I was scratching my head in the bathroom. It was flakes coming out of my. She was like, no, you better than that. You better than that. Grab your dignity. You better not grab your dignity. And I was dying laughing because he was so right. Cause I had just basically turned into. I went from this to like somebody else. And we were cracking up laughing because as valuable as those other things are that change the world and touch people, what means the most to us are those moments where we're like clowning on each other. He's my friend.

A (51:47)

I love that is beautiful, honey. The best part of the day is taking the wig off.

B (51:51)

Do you understand?

A (51:51)

Getting these bobby pins out of my head.

B (51:53)

It is the best part of the day.

A (51:56)

I'm flaking a little bit too.

B (51:57)

No, it's time for me to take these braids out. You getting washed tomorrow.

A (52:04)

That is hilarious. I love that though. I love that for both of you.

B (52:07)

Thank you.

A (52:07)

That is beautiful.

B (52:08)

Yes, it's funny. My 14 year old daughter, like she, he's been in her life basically all of her life at this point. And so at nighttime she's like, her favorite part of the day is seeing us like he had, I had usually have tea at night, he usually has like peanuts and raisins in his neck and we're like gossiping about the other kids. Like, well, you know that one. And Kenzie, like, well, truth be told, Mackenzie, get out our business. But what you say? Yeah, please tell us she will come and sit up in the room with us talking about her siblings. Kenzie, you are really too much.

A (52:41)

Oh, my goodness.

B (52:42)

I love.

A (52:43)

I just love your whole family dynamic. It's just beautiful.

B (52:45)

Yeah, I'm really grateful for it. It feels very restorative to create an environment for my family that I think would have been really great for me, but to experience it through them and to be a part of it, it's the only thing that matters to me. So even when you're like, you're always on the go, how do you balance it? I'm really not always on the go. I say no to a lot of stuff. So that when I say yes to stuff like this, where I'm gone for seven days, back for two days, then gone again, that I haven't been gone so so much that I feel a whole lot of guilt about being gone on these trips. I say no to a lot of stuff.

A (53:25)

Wow, that's good for you. Yeah, that's my favorite word.

B (53:28)

It's a good word.

A (53:30)

I love it. I love it. So by the time this episode airs, you have been finished with your seven city book tour. What are some things that Sarah's gonna nurture when she is done and gets off the road?

B (53:42)

My edges. I'm gonna get my hair washed.

A (53:47)

She said my.

B (53:48)

My edges. Let these edges breathe. I'm going to nurture my joy. Yeah, I am going to nurture, I think my reflection. Because this season hasn't allowed for a lot of reflection because I'm into one thing and into the next. But I want to sit back and think about all of the ways God showed up for me throughout this tour, throughout this book writing process, throughout the whole. Because God gave me this concept with this book that it made sense to me. But I'm like, I don't know if I can put it into language, you know, because I think when people hear their title, they're like, power moves. You want to show me how to do something. And it's really about the fluidity of power and how I can be powerful as a speaker and powerful as a mother if I'm in the flow of God's power, that everything I do is powerful. But I didn't. I kept second guessing whether or not I'd made it make sense. And to be able to hear that. So many people said, I did.

A (54:52)

You did.

B (54:52)

I was. I was actually getting. I had a Health scare in December. And I'm like in the hospital, fresh out of anesthesia with my manuscript, reading through this book because I'm just like, it has to make sense. It has to make sense. And for people to say that it makes sense.

A (55:06)

It does. No, you should see my iPad. Cause like, I literally was like, it's purple. Like, it's so many highlights. It's crazy.

B (55:12)

That means so much to me. And then like, you know, I've done these interviews and I don't like thinking on my speed and I've like had to speak to people and like God has given me language and words. When I did the Breakfast Club, Jason put me in a white button down and I was like, I can't wear a white button down. Cause I sweat like a man. Like a full. I build things like a man. I sweat like a man. Listen. And I was like, no, because I'm gonna be pouring. So I had so much peace. I was so grounded. Like, I didn't sweat through my clothes. Like little things that are dumb to most people.

A (55:44)

You're grateful for it.

B (55:45)

Yeah, I am. So I just want to sit back and think. I've received so much love in these cities. Somebody in Houston told me I had made the decision to commit suicide. And I came with my 11 year old daughter because I wanted that to be one of our last experiences. And she, she was like, I decided to live. Something happened in that room where I know God's got something for me, that there's power in me, more power than this depression. And so just like to not just let that be something that goes by. And Houston was. After the Houston date, I wanted to cancel the whole tour.

A (56:16)

Really?

B (56:17)

Oh, yeah. I was.

A (56:17)

So you didn't want to come to Atlanta?

B (56:19)

I was like, atlanta don't want me to come. I was.

A (56:22)

So was it just like.

B (56:24)

Well, I've toured before. I usually have a worship team. Dr. Anita Phillips comes on the road with me sometimes. And so there's all of these different elements. Well, I'm like, this is a book tour. Most of the time on book tour, someone's being interviewed about their book. But I was like, but no one knows this book better than me. And I didn't know if the book made any sense.

A (56:41)

Let me do.

B (56:45)

Exactly. It's weird. It's weird. So I was like, I'm going to create this evening that is going to allow me to set a foundation for people to read. Read the book. There is no worship. I'm going to like, I'm going to engage with them. I'm going to interview people who I feel like embody the message of the book, and then I'm going to speak. But it's so different than anything that's been done. So after Houston, I was like, it's too new. It's too different. It doesn't make sense. I'm finished. But power was moving even in my insecurity and uncertainty.

A (57:13)

Come on, Power.

B (57:14)

So I just. I want to find all of the ways that power moved in this season and collected them for whatever's next.

A (57:22)

Yes. I love that. Sarah.

B (57:25)

Hey, thank you. My pleasure.

A (57:27)

Oh, my goodness. Ladies and gentlemen, Sarah Jakes Roberts. This has been an amazing episode.

B (57:32)

Thank you for having me.

A (57:33)

No, thank you. We are going to do my favorite part of the show. This is the end. It's called positive outcomes. And this is where our listeners write into us and we give them advice.

B (57:46)

Okay.

A (57:47)

So this one says, hey, Crystal. First I want to say thank you so much for being obedient to the voice of God. Your podcast has made me feel so many emotions in every season. Thank you for letting me laugh, cry, sing, shout, dance, evaluate life, get to the root, get closer with God and just overall learn to be and embrace everything about me. I am a 33 year old single single mother of three, and I feel like I'm stuck where I currently am. I know God has given me dreams and visions, but I'm stuck on how to activate them. There have been times where I was very adamant on my path, what I wanted to do and when. But when the time came for it to come forth, I became afraid. How do you listen to the voice of God when it seems as if everyone's voice is louder? How do you get over your feelings of fear? What are some steps that you recommend to someone who feels like it's too late to get started? Wow. Okay. Thank you so much for writing in. I definitely can say that I have felt like I got a late start in my career. You know, I moved here in 2009.

B (58:56)

Okay.

A (58:56)

And it was a 10 year process before I got my first show. Like, so people like, oh my gosh, you just came out of nowhere. No, it was 10 years that I was over here grinding and stuff, struggling until that hit. So it's never too late. You know, when God says yes, that's your time to go, baby. And nobody can stop you when he says yes. As far as other people's voices being louder than you can make out the voice of God, for me, it's meditation and sitting in the stillness in the Morning when, like, nobody's up, when I can just hear the birds waking up, that is the best time for me to hear God's voice because there's nothing going on. A lot of times once the day gets started, it's like calls start coming in, Everybody's giving you opinion, oh, you shouldn't do that. You shouldn't do this. That's when I feel like it's hard to like, really discern where, like, guy, where are you really leading me? So I would say for sure, just find time that you can really. Until you get to a point in your walk with God where you really just hear him and he. Sometimes you can be in New York City, Times Square, and you can hear him clearly, like, oh, gotcha. You know, but sometimes you need to find that still quiet space that you can really just be at one with with him, where you can see what direction he wants you to take you to. But in Sarah Jakes Roberts book Power Moves, she talks about marinating before you activate. Because, honey, I done activated some things I should have let marinate for a while.

B (60:09)

That would have got activated, made a little difference.

A (60:12)

Okay, so definitely I would just marinate on what you're trying to do before you activate anything. Sarah, what do you got to say to her?

B (60:20)

Everything that you said, I would say, say as a part of marinating that I would consider. Why do you feel stuck? I'm one of those people who like to face off with the fear, face off with the pain, the shame, to understand the messages that I am receiving. And so I am stuck because I am afraid that blank is going to happen. I am stuck because I believe that I do not have blank. Like, what is it that is making you feel so stuck? And is there anything that you can do to get unstuck? Like, do I need to believe differently? Are there courses I can take? Are there conversations that I need to have? Are these friendships the right friendships for me? If I'm stuck because I'm afraid people are going to make fun of me if I don't do this? Well, like, are these the types of friends that I want to have in the first place? Am I wrong or would I make fun? Like, I think there's so many things that when we're marinating, that allows us to see sometimes what I'm marinating on isn't even something that's possible. Like, these friends would never make fun of me. They're so compassionate, you know what I mean? And we get stuck believing something that's not even true. So I Would definitely say, take some time to marinate, to decide, like, what exactly makes me feel stuck. And is it really true? Because a lot of times it's not true.

A (61:33)

That's good. Yeah, that's real. A lot of times I'm an overthinker, so I always overthink the worst. Sometimes, like. Or I can overthink the best and be like, girl, okay, yes, calm down.

B (61:44)

I overthink, too. I think that's part of what makes so much of what we do successful, is that it is well thought out.

A (61:52)

Yes.

B (61:52)

But there are other moments where it is enough thinking.

A (61:56)

Yeah, that is so true. Then we do something that's called what I'm growing through and what I going through. And right now I am. I talked about the asking God to enlarge my territory, but with that comes finding my voice in this space of my life. And right now, I'm just really trying to figure out exactly where I want to really go as this next level expands. Because we were in church, we were just talking about how as you continue to get bigger, your option there being more options and trying to decide, okay, am I gonna go this way, this way, this way? Really figuring out those places and the avenues that I want to go down. So right now, praying for the discernment to know, okay, this is the way God wants me to go. Maybe I should wait on this because I'm like. I like to have a lot of what's in the fire. What is it called?

B (62:49)

Coals.

A (62:49)

Coals, Yeah. I like to have a lot of coals in the fire and a lot of different things going on, but making sure that they're God things and their God moves. Because everything he said, every good door is not a God door. And I'm trying to make sure the doors I go through now are the right ones, because that can determine the future. It can be a good journey or it can be a bad one. So right now, it's just a lot on my plate with trying to figure out where to go next. So that's what I'm going through and growing through.

B (63:14)

Okay.

A (63:14)

Yeah.

B (63:15)

I am growing through and going through, embracing the. I won't even call it a possibility. The reality that I am lovable. Okay. But hear me out. So I think so much of my reconciliation with God came down to me feeling like God loves me. In spite of all of these things I've done. God loves me. He sees all of my flaws, and he loves me. And it almost feels. And the grace of that is amazing. And the charity of it I think is amazing. But I also feel like there's another level that I am growing and going through that is like, yes, I love you in spite of all those things, but also, you're just lovable.

A (64:08)

Yeah, you are. And I just met you today.

B (64:11)

Thank you.

A (64:11)

Yeah, you got, like, your energy is good.

B (64:13)

Thank you. Like, just embracing the idea that, like, maybe you're just a lovable person. Like, you're not loved out of this, like, charity, this pat on the head. Like, oh, my gosh. You know I love you, right? Your raggedy self.

A (64:28)

Aw.

B (64:28)

I love you. And, you know, I was glad to be loved like that. Oh, thank you. You know what I mean? I think that has been my posture. Like, oh, my gosh. But like, this idea that, like, no, it wasn't a stretch.

A (64:39)

Yes. No.

B (64:40)

Like, we talk about God leaving or Jesus leaving the 99 to go get the 1. And if you're that one, you can feel like, oh, my gosh, he had to stretch, but, you know, he found me. But, like, what if it wasn't a stretch? Like, what if it was his privilege and his honor to go out of his way because he knew that you're so lovable that, like, I don't ever want you to feel lost. So I don't know. It's a rewiring that I'm growing and going through.

A (65:04)

I love that. That is so good. The last thing we do is fill in the blank. Keep it blank, sweetie.

B (65:13)

Okay?

A (65:13)

And I'm going to say keep marinating until it's time to activate, sweetie.

B (65:21)

I am going to say keep it authentic, sweetie.

A (65:26)

I love that. I love that. Sarah, thank you so much. I appreciate it, guys. Thank you so much for tuning into this episode of Keep It Positive, Sweetie. If you want to write into our open listener letter, you can write into keepitpositivesweetiemail.com and that's Sweetie with an IE. You can follow me on all platforms at lovechrystalrenae. And that's luv. Sarah, tell the people where they can find you.

B (65:47)

You can find me at sarahjakesroberts, on Instagram, Facebook, and on TikTok. Therealsarahjakesroberts.

A (65:55)

There we go. All right, guys, and make sure you go right now to get her new book, Power Moves. It's everywhere. There's no excuse for you not to have have it. Go get this. It definitely will make a difference in your walk. Thank you so much, Sarah. I appreciate it.

B (66:16)

Thank you, Lord, so much, Father God, for this moment. Thank you for bringing everyone here safely. Lord, we thank you so much for the opportunity to converse vulnerably, openly, transparently. Father God, we just ask that you bless. Bless this moment and for everyone that will watch this later on, Father God, that they will receive what you want them to receive. We thank you and we honor you. In your name we pray. Amen.

A (66:35)

Amen.