No One Is Too Far From God: A Roundtable Discussion

Summary

Keep It Positive, Sweetie
Episode: No One Is Too Far From God: A Roundtable Discussion
Host: Crystal Renee Hayslett
Date: December 22, 2024

Episode Overview

In this heartfelt season six premiere, host Crystal Renee Hayslett gathers a dynamic roundtable of guests from diverse backgrounds—all connected by their complex personal journeys with faith. The group dives deep into the concept that “no one is too far from God," exploring questions of church, tradition, personal relationship, forgiveness, and what it means to find faith after struggle or disenchantment. The episode is a safe, judgment-free space featuring raw stories about church hurt, incarceration, doubt, healing, and finding new ways to know God and love others. Crystal’s skilled facilitation fosters authenticity, vulnerability, and, above all, positivity.

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Meet the Guests

• Brenda Palmer - Pastor, producer, host of Life and Perspective podcast
• Angela Wright - Author, advocate, motivational speaker, host of Break Free podcast, formerly incarcerated
• Ms. Lawrence - Actor, singer, songwriter, and activist
• Wes Lawrence - Entertainment manager, entrepreneur
• Devale Ellis - Actor, author, Crystal’s co-star on Sistas, podcast host

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Upbringing, Church Tradition and “Church Hurt”

(Timestamps: 04:31–19:00)

• Nearly all guests grew up in church but experienced conflict and confusion; for some, the rigidity of tradition and lack of room for questions led to detachment or rebellion.
• Devale recalls: “When I asked questions, I got shunned…If you ask questions, then you don’t believe the way you’re supposed to believe. So you going to hell. And that scared me.” [04:31]
• Angela shares how her upbringing in a pastor’s home didn’t prevent her from “making a left turn” and ending up incarcerated—but “once the word is embedded in you, people can take whatever they want… but one thing they cannot take is that word.” [05:48]
• Brenda describes church as both family and hurt. After deep betrayal by a pastor, she considered ending her life, but “came face-to-face with Jesus … nobody outside of him could get me out of it.” [08:12]
• Ms. Lawrence describes being celebrated for their church singing talent yet marginalized for being “gender non-conforming.” “The only time they would see me as human was when I was singing and using my voice.” [13:13]

2. Breaking Away and Rediscovering Faith

(Timestamps: 10:16–19:00, 46:56–55:00)

• Leaving home or experiencing hardship often sparked a new, personal relationship with God, distinct from inherited tradition.
• Crystal: “My mom and dad taught me, but that wasn’t my own relationship with God. This is where I can build my own and learn how to talk to Him in my own way.” [11:17]
• Guests recount stories of wrestling with the perceived contradiction between tradition and personal authenticity.
• Ms. Lawrence: “In order to meet people where they are, you have to be in worship, in spirit, and in truth. You’ll never learn who I am if I’m not operating in truth.” [14:48]

3. Performance vs. Relationship; Root vs. Ritual

(Timestamps: 21:04–25:00)

• Brenda: “I think the issue with growing up in church is that we get into, like, this performance-based thing. I got to look a certain way, act a certain way, with no root or foundation in why we’re doing it.” [21:10]
• She emphasizes authentic relationship, not just rule-following: “Jesus loves us … once I experience, embrace, and accept that love, I want to reciprocate it with how I live.” [21:47]

4. Faith and Doubt: Wrestling with Religion’s Exclusions

(Timestamps: 23:00–32:00)

• Devale raises hard questions about exclusivity—what about people who never hear about Jesus, or grew up in other faiths? Does Christianity’s “one way” mean others are doomed?

  • “My biggest issue with religion is someone saying you only go through heaven by believing in Jesus Christ. That, to me, creates division.” [23:01]

• Brenda responds by citing scripture: “The Bible says … until the gospel has reached the end of the Earth, he won’t return. So everybody will have an opportunity to hear … everyone has a choice.” [24:10]

• The group reflects on unity: “At the end of the day, did you give somebody water when they were thirsty? … Did you give them food when they were hungry?” (Ms. Lawrence) [30:48]

• Notable moment: Devale describes formative encounters with Jewish and Muslim neighbors whose acts of kindness and prayer challenged boundaries, affirming that God’s spirit transcends labels. [26:25–27:54]

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Memorable Quotes

• Ms. Lawrence:
  "If I go out with a full ball gown on and lashes from here to Peace street, can't nobody tell me that God ain't still with [me]." [20:32]

• Angela:
  "When you get to that point … there's nothing that anybody could tell, even if you wrong and even if you fall from grace, and you still know that you have your father and that he has you." [20:44]

• Brenda:
  “You can’t pursue Jesus without him.” [21:04]

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5. Personal Experiences: Faith Tested

(Timestamps: 47:10–61:00)

• Angela’s testimony of 30-year incarceration, clinging to faith: “My faith was really tested in the thick of it…I knew I was not going to do 30 years. Faith will make you look crazy.” [47:18]
  • She wrote her memoir in prison on the belief she’d be free—President Obama granted a fellow inmate clemency using Angela’s customized paperwork, but her own application was denied, forcing her to dig deeper.
• Wes describes hitting rock bottom with health and career before turning inward and recommitting to God to transform his life. [53:57]
• Ms. Lawrence details surrendering a dream to God and receiving clarity through a chance encounter with a stranger after desperate prayer: “God told me to tell you to let it go.” [58:10]

6. Navigating Faith in the Entertainment World

(Timestamps: 62:16–67:31)

• Both Crystal and Devale discuss setting boundaries in acting, declining certain roles (e.g., rape scenes) that don’t align with their values or they wouldn’t want their children to see.

• On Hollywood’s aversion to overt Christian language: “They always try to say, hey, don’t say God or Jesus … it’s like an unspoken thing.” [62:16]

• Ms. Lawrence found agency in telling stories responsibly, especially representing marginalized people (e.g., playing Miss Freddie in United States vs. Billie Holiday). [65:02]

• Remarkable conversion: During filming of “Deliverance,” a previously atheist director converted to Christianity due to the on-set environment, prayer, and the unity of the cast. “He was an atheist. Now he’s saved.” [67:00]

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7. Redefining “Success”—Faith as Foundation Not Outcome

(Timestamps: 61:05–62:16)

• Ms. Lawrence: “I have no lack, but also no money…What God showed me was, I am the richest. I am the resource. I provide the abundance, not a job.” [61:45]
• Deep emphasis is placed on miracles, unexpected provision, and the inner peace that outlasts transient circumstances.

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Additional Themes & Takeaways

• Value of Questioning and Authentic Community:
  • The show repeatedly legitimizes asking tough questions: “Please keep asking questions. You’ve probably just been asking the wrong people.” (Brenda) [36:46]
• Healing and Accountability:
  • True spiritual community involves both acceptance and “pushing one another to see things from new perspectives.” (Crystal to Brenda) [09:32]
• Radical Grace:
  • Acceptance is for all, not just the “unlikely”—the episode title is again invoked for an inspiring conclusion: “No one is too far…” [67:31]
• Empowering the Next Generation:
  • Angela works with at-risk youth: “We can’t reach them how grandma done reached us. We have to reach them where they are.” [37:58]

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Notable Quotes by Timestamp

• “You have to be in worship, in spirit, and in truth. You’ll never learn who I am if I’m not operating in truth.”
  —Ms. Lawrence [14:48]

• “Faith will make you look crazy. People will begin to think you were crazy.”
  —Angela [47:18]

• “I never had an agent... However, everything I’ve done has been top tier... God has shown up and showed me who he was so many times... I have no lack, but also no money.”
  —Ms. Lawrence [59:35–61:45]

• “If I go out with a full ball gown on and lashes from here to Peachtree, can’t nobody tell me that God ain’t still with [me].”
  —Ms. Lawrence [20:32]

• “When I ask questions, especially in the church community … that’s when I get my most pushback.”
  —Devale [35:42]

• “[Kirk Franklin] said, ‘Don’t cheer for me, give it to Him.’”
  —Devale [46:16]

• “Nothing is impossible with God. Luke 1:37.”
  —Angela [74:35]

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Important Segment Timestamps

• Roundtable Introductions and Faith Backgrounds – 04:31–19:00
• Tradition vs. Personal Faith – 19:00–25:00
• Doubt, Division & Inclusivity – 23:00–32:00
• Women & Faith, Misogyny in Religion – 28:25–31:00
• Church Hurt and Healing – 08:12–09:31, 13:13–15:14, 47:10–55:00
• Personal Miracles and Provision – 58:10–61:45
• Hollywood & Boundaries – 62:16–67:00
• Redemption and Continuity of Faith – 67:31–74:35
• Shoutouts, Plugs, and Positive Affirmation – 72:57–78:07

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Flow & Tone

The episode maintains an honest, empathic, and uplifting atmosphere, combining humor ("If I put on lashes from here to Peachtree…!") with profound vulnerability, deep questions, and practical wisdom. The table’s unfiltered rapport, love, and mutual respect encourages others on faith journeys—especially those wrestling with questions, wounds, or feelings of estrangement from God.

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Final Takeaway

Crystal closes with a reminder that everyone is “so much more alike than not on this faith journey.” Giving each other grace, rejecting judgment, and deeply listening are recurring calls to action—because, in their words, “no one is too far from God.” [67:31]

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For more inspiring roundtables, follow the show
@lovechrystalrenae and @keepitpositivesweetie.
Guest projects, books, podcasts, and more are detailed from [72:57] onward.

Transcript

[A]

Coming up on Keep It Positive.

[B]

Sweetie, I just said if I go out with a full ball gown on and lashes from here to Peace street, can't nobody tell me that God ain't.

[C]

Still with that's right.

[D]

And when you get to that point, that not to cut you off. When you get to that point, that is like the point where you know that in church they say you know that you know that you know you know. And when you able to get to that point is nothing that anybody could tell. Even if you wrong and even if you fall from grace, you still know that you have your father and that he has you.

[A]

This episode is sponsored by Better Health. Hey, sweeties. There is so much stigma centered around therapy. Whether it's stress, sadness, worries or relationship issues, there's shame that is attached to it when it really shouldn't be. I initially started therapy during the pandemic because this is the first time I actually got to sit with myself with the hustle and bustle of life, with we all tend to suppress some things and neglect it when we need help. When I first tried therapy, I didn't feel any mental clarity or that it was working. But that's because I was not being honest with my therapist. Once I found the right licensed therapist for me and I was honest, my world changed. If you're like me and you need to talk to someone but don't know where to start, I have something for you. BetterHelp. It's convenient and easily accessible on your phone. All you have to do is download the app, sign, sign up, and fill out a questionnaire Within a few days, it pairs you with a licensed therapist. So what are you waiting for? Go to www.betterhelp.com Crystal let's all get better together with BetterHelp. Hello, I'm Krystal Renee Hayslett and this is Keep it positive, sweetie. A safe space to heal, laugh, grow and love. Guys, I am so excited to be kicking off season six and as you can tell, we are on a new set. And as I reflect on everything that's been accomplished with this show so far, it has been an incredible journey and I'm so grateful we get to continue this ride together. Now, I've got some incredible guests lined up for you guys and a lot of fun things as well. Today I'm spending time with a few people who, like me, understand their humanness and also their need for faith, forgiveness, and a strong foundation in God. Joining me is pastor producer, host of Life and Perspective podcast, Brenda Palmer, author, advocate, motivational speaker, and Host of Break Free podcast, Angela Wright, actor, singer, songwriter, and social activate, Ms. Lawrence, entertainment manager, entrepreneur, and the big fella himself, Wes Lawrence. And my brother from another mother, actor, author, my co host on our hit show, Sistas Azatima, Deval Ellis. Guys, thank y' all so much for being here today. I really appreciate it. I'm excited about this conversation.

[D]

Thank you.

[A]

Today we are talking about no one is too far from God. And this conversation actually came from Brenda and I having brunch with some girls in la. And nobody knew that Brenda was a pastor, so everybody was speaking freely at the table. And as the conversation went on, Brenda started speaking to everyone. And it was funny. One of my friends was, like, very against going to church because God was within her. And she was like, I don't need to go to church. And now she's actually texting Brenda saying, hey, I found this new church. You want to pull up? So I was like, this is actually a dope concept to have a conversation of people in different walks of life, in different phases of their relationship with God and their walk with God, and just to, like, get some clarity on things and be open about what we're going through, because so many people are struggling in this area. And I think it's so dope because there's so many things we deal with, whether it's church hurt or confusion and trying to figure out why are certain things happening? Does God really exist? I know there's so many times where we actually question God, you know? So I just wanted to have. I love all of you guys. And we've all had separate conversations. You know, y' all have super dope stories, so I wanted to have y' all on so we could talk about it. So to break the ice, just tell everybody a little bit about yourselves, just so everybody can kind of know your backstories. I really want to. Y' all have so, like, your backstories are so dope. So I want to kind of touch on. Start with you, Deval.

[C]

So I grew up Southern Baptist, went to church six days a week. Monday was, like, youth council. Tuesday was choir rehearsal. Wednesdays, Bible study. Thursday was Boy Scouts. Friday, like, I'm dead serious. Friday was youth council again. Saturday was the Junior Layman. And Sunday I went to church. So I grew up always thinking that the church was everything. And my uncle was a deacon. My father's a deacon, grandfather's a deacon, my aunt's a pastor. So I was always a part of, like, the quote unquote, clergy. But I just always felt like when I asked questions, I got shunned. And it was always like, listen to what I say. If you ask questions, then you don't believe the way you're supposed to believe. So you going to hell. And that scared me. Cause I was like, I don't want to go to hell, but I also just don't believe. So then it made me afraid of believing anything because I was kind of like, well, if I don't believe the way y' all believe, then I'm going to hell. So then I just don't believe, you know? So after years of trying to ask questions, of getting shunned, when I turned 18, I said, I'm going to college and I'm never going to church. And I haven't. Haven't turned back.

[D]

Wow. Wow.

[A]

That's crazy.

[C]

That was 22 years ago.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

That's my story. Long short of it.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

Thank you for sharing that, Angela.

[D]

I grew up in church, actually, just like you. I went to church for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. My father was a pastor.

[C]

So pkk.

[D]

Going to church. That's what you did. If it wasn't choir rehearsal, junior missionary board, it was just everything. Saturday, they sold dinners. It's a fundraiser. So I grew up in church, but for me, it was different. The church was everything. Because that's all I knew. That's what my life was patterning around. And eventually I went, got older, came to Atlanta, went to Clark Atlanta University. I graduated. But I made a left turn and I got caught up into a big drug conspiracy case. As a first time nonviolent offender. I was sentenced to 30 years. And it's just like as a first time. Wait a minute. Jesus. You know, I was looking at. I didn't kill anyone, you know, physically. But what I realized is I killed a lot of people. Dreams. I messed up. Generations to come from just one person using drugs. I didn't sell on a corner. I sold kilos. So you just think 1,000 grams is in one kilo of cocaine. That can ruin a thousand lives. But you don't look at it when you in the thick of it. But I never lost my faith. And I knew that once the word is embedded in you, people can take whatever they want to take from you. But one thing they cannot take is that word. And I stood on it. And even though I was wrong, and even though I had fell and hit rock bottom, I still was able to look to the heels from what came with my help. And my help came from God. So I'm sitting here. So obviously I Didn't do.

[E]

Yeah.

[D]

So that's my story. That's my faith. I stick to it. And I know I am a beacon of light. When I walk into a room, I know the gift that's within me that God has trusted me with. And before, I used to say I was part of the problem, but now I'm the solution. And I tell anybody on the mountaintop that it was God that did it for me.

[A]

I love that. That's beautiful.

[C]

That's what's up, man.

[A]

Yeah. So inspiring.

[E]

Yeah. I'll just third that. I grew up in church. I grew up with PK, too. Even if my parents weren't pastors, they served at some level of leadership. So street ministry, youth ministry, church was all the time. When I was 18, I was like, I'm done with this. Cause my parents ran a smaller church, so I had to do everything. I was the oldest kid in the church. I had to run the audio, I had to run the sound. I'm tired. I don't want nothing else to do with this. And so when I was 18, I was like, I'm finna go live life. I went to college. I knew how to go to college and be at college and come home and act like I was good. I did that very well. And then probably my sophomore year of college, I. What I was reading in scripture became applicable to my life. And I feel like I found, like, I met Jesus beyond religion, and I developed a personal relationship with him. And then from there, I mean, I still, you know, teetered back and forth. But I think when I was 28, I experienced church hurt, like a betrayal from my pastor. That was. I don't think I could have ever imagined it. And it almost took my life. Like, I ain't want to live anymore. And in that moment, I felt like I came face to face with Jesus because I knew nobody outside of him could get me out of it. And so because of that, I moved to la. I started working in the entertainment industry. But I committed my life to creating spaces for people who would experience that church, heard from people, but still wanted a relationship with Jesus. So how can I create spaces for people to encounter Jesus, build a relationship with him and figure out the church stuff, figure out where I want to go, figure out where I want to land. But, like, experiencing, like, no, Jesus loves you, and even if you experience it a way that doesn't feel that way from people who represent him, I still want you to have a relationship with Jesus. Because that's what I needed to survive. And so that's kind of what I do. I travel around the country hosting pop up Bible studies to ensure, like, to create spaces for people to do this, like, talk about God so they can encounter him on their own and not be detoured by all the other stuff.

[D]

Yeah, yeah, that's dope.

[E]

Thank you.

[A]

And that's what I love about you, Brenda, is that I'm on this journey and I can be very transparent with you. You don't judge me, but you hold me accountable. You always push me to see things in a different perspective that I don't normally see. I appreciate that. But like everybody else, I grew up in the church. My mother didn't become a pastor. She's an associate pastor. She didn't become a pastor until I was like, ending high school, going into college. So I didn't grow up, like, as a pk, but I was in the church. Every time the doors open, I was there from kids choir all the way through. And once I got to college, I was like, I don't have to do this anymore. Same way, like, we had to make our bed up every morning. I wasn't doing none of that. When I left the house, I was not making the bed and I was not going to church.

[E]

I'm done.

[A]

And it was one of those things where I was in the streets, promiscuous, partying, drinking, doing all the things. Because I lived in a very structured household. I won't say strict. They were strict. But they also gave us freedoms within the home so that we were protected. But a lot of times it was like I couldn't party. I couldn't stay out too late, all those things. So when I got out of the house, I was outside.

[D]

Outside.

[A]

And it wasn't until freshman semester I was on academic probation from clearly partying and doing all the things. Yeah. And I had to spend my whole summer to get my GPA back up. And it was in that moment that I realized I've got to get back to what I know. And I was raised Methodist, and for me, I love my church, but it was boring to me. Very structured, very structured. We sang hymnals, and I wanted to sing Kirk Franklin.

[C]

You couldn't do it.

[A]

And we ended up starting to do that. Like, our church changed and we started singing, really songs that spoke to us as a younger generation. But I ended up going to a Baptist church when I was in college. And that's where I really encountered God, because I found him through praise and worship. Some people, like, I just need to hear him preach. But for me it was like, I need to hear this music because the music speaks to me. So that was the pivot and the shift where I was like, okay. My mom and dad taught me, but that wasn't my own relationship with God. This is where I can build my own and learn how to talk to.

[D]

Him in my own way.

[A]

Like, all right, Lord, what we doing now? Because this is ghetto, you know, versus heavenly Father. I just want to thank you for like, I had to, you know, you had to find your own way. What do you say?

[C]

That's how I grew up.

[E]

Yes.

[C]

You had to speak better. Honor the Lord, Dress a certain way. Just like, man, I can't be myself.

[A]

Dressed a certain way. Listen. Yeah.

[C]

Women couldn't wear pants.

[A]

Oh, no.

[C]

It was super straight.

[A]

You had to wear tights under your skirt. You better have no bare legs.

[E]

Oh, yeah, slip slips. Oh, my goodness.

[B]

You better have on a slip.

[C]

Hand holes and a slit.

[E]

Everything you got to cover up to the neck, covered.

[D]

And if it's too short, the mother's coming out with.

[E]

Baby, you all right?

[A]

Over that lap.

[E]

Right over that lap.

[A]

Ms. Lawrence, what about you?

[B]

We've spoken.

[A]

You've been on my podcast before. And we talked. We had a good conversation.

[B]

We had a good conversation. So I grew up here in Atlanta. I'm not related to pastors or anything like that. I went to church every Sunday with my mama, but my mama was one of those parents. It's like, okay, we gotta go to church. And then she go in there and go to sleep. Go in there nodding off. We be sitting there. And I learned a lot of scripture by way of repetition from hearing it all the time.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I didn't learn to apply it until later, come to a meeting of the mind and spiritual understanding of what it all meant. My battles with church came when I started singing in church. And everybody was, you know, stood at attention when I sang. But then when I didn't sing, I was frowned upon because of who I was and what I looked like, how I presented myself. Because as a gender non conforming or just flaming gay queen, I always put on a little powder or something like that. Now I will put my little suits on for church, you know, all that kind of stuff. But it was going to be something that was extracted from women's culture. And so the only time they would see me as human was when I was singing and using my voice. But after that, it was nothing for me. Right. And so I stopped going to church for a very long time. And then I picked it back up later. But I get. And through that time, I understood, okay, I need to go to church to be taught. And I worship in spirit and in truth anywhere that I go. And to a lot of you all's points, what I learned is forcing people to go to church, because that's what they say you're supposed to do, and you're supposed to dress this way and dress that way. What I learned from my own journey is that it is true when scripture says that the traditions of man has caused my word to have no effect.

[C]

Absolutely.

[B]

And in order to be able to meet people where they are, you have to be in worship, in spirit, and in truth. You'll never learn who I am if I'm not operating in truth.

[C]

Absolutely.

[B]

And so I learned that along my journey. And so I learned who God was and who he was to me and what the Spirit meant to me. And. And it's been incredible since I came to know him on my own.

[C]

Yeah, that's dope.

[A]

That's beautiful, big fella.

[F]

Well, see, I grew up in the D.C. area, so church wasn't. It wasn't pushed into church, but, you know, family. We had a family church that we always go, you know, Easter and stuff like that. I had a church in my neighborhood that me and my friends would. We took it upon ourselves to go to as younger. When we were younger. So sang in the choir then and stuff like that. But as I got older and I moved to Atlanta, I think it was like 2005. So, like, around 2005, 2006, I got baptized again as an adult. So it was a. It was. It was a great experience. I started learning more, you know, getting back into it. But, you know, I'm in the entertainment business, and I'm in the thick of it. Like, I'm on tour, I'm on the road, I'm traveling, drinking, smoking, you know, So I kind of, like, lost myself. I got to a point where I needed to center. I felt like the only place I can do that is with God in church. And as I started to do that, things started disappearing on my life. Things started getting better. The problems I was having was gone. So as a kid, I never saw it like that. I just saw, you know, we was growing up, we didn't have a lot, but we had what we needed, you know, wasn't like other families or whatnot, but I felt like, well, I'm going to church and praying for. I didn't have faith. So, like, now as an adult and, you know, me exploring the word on my own I feel better. I feel like I understand it more. So I feel like I'm just in a better place overall with that.

[A]

I love that fella. I'm proud of you. I remember we were at the house having wine one night, and we were just having a conversation, and you were like, I'm gonna get in my Bible more. And then I remember you calling me, asking, what time does church start? And then he goes to the service before me and everyone. He's like, yo, you gonna love church today. I'm like, wow, Big brother really be going to church.

[F]

We checking him out, man.

[C]

One thing you said, Wes, that resonated to me was like, getting older and understanding church, right? And then, Lawrence, you said the same thing about being taught. I notice being a father now, right? My children are not mature enough to understand certain things, right? It's like you take a kid and you like, here's calculus, right? Pythagorean theorem, cosine tangent. They gonna be like, what is this? I felt like that in church when they were trying to teach me the Bible. It sounded like Pythagorean theorem. And then because I couldn't understand it, I felt less than. I felt like something's wrong with my spirit. Like, people getting up and running around and they crying, and I'm just sitting there, like, what is happening? You know what I'm saying?

[F]

And that's the thing. What does. Like, at what age do you really think you're gonna understand the word? Like, really?

[B]

Like. Cause it just happens.

[F]

No, you're right.

[B]

No, you're right. It happens on its own. And I'm going to tell you, as a child, what my mother did give me was principles. And that there is a source that you go to in the time of trouble, when you need clarity, to be patient while you're waiting on clarity and to know that that source, which is God, loves you unconditionally more than anything and anybody in this world, that is your best friend. Now, I kept that with me and to never lie. I always tell people. My mom always. Don't you tell no lie. Don't you?

[C]

That's me and my boys. That's me and my boys.

[B]

Don't you tell a lie about nothing. Now, in that, me understanding that is you. You should never be a liar. I never did that, which is why I get to sit here as my whole self, because I would never lie about who I was. So in that, I learned because of that, I know who I am.

[C]

But wasn't that conflicting in the church? Because you can't be a liar.

[B]

But here's the piece. It was conflicting at first, until I got older. And this is what I mean when I say it all. It just comes together. Yeah, but because I had those fundamental principles when I was growing up.

[C]

Cause you was there.

[B]

I kept it with me. And then it made sense later. It was conflicting. But that is why we are to study on our own, show ourselves, show our own selves. Because the Holy Spirit will show you things that nobody else that your teacher or your pastor may not be able to convey to you. They can give you the word. But until you sit, and you sit in it and reflect on it, and you ask God and the Holy Spirit to show you what that means, that's when you'll get it. And only life experience will lead you to that. Unfortunately, we're going to. We get put in situations where we have nobody else and nothing else to turn to. And that's when it clicks. And that's where that word comes from. Trying for yourself.

[A]

Come on now.

[B]

When you trying for yourself. Can't nobody can change my mind about God.

[C]

Didn't I just say.

[B]

No, I just said that if I go out with a full ball gown on and lashes from here to Peace street, can't nobody tell me that God ain't still with.

[D]

That's right. And when you get to that point, that not to cut you off. When you get to that point, that is like the point where you know that in church they say, you know that you know that you know, you know. And when you able to get to that point, there's nothing that anybody could tell. Even if you wrong and even if you fall from grace and you still know that you have your father and that he has you.

[E]

Yeah. I think what I'll piggyback on is like, the reality is like, you can't pursue Jesus without him.

[B]

Come on.

[E]

And so I think that, like, to the love thing, it's like, I think about Jesus picked his disciples. They were the worst people ever. Like, the absolute worst people ever turn their back. And when Jesus goes to them, he doesn't say like, hey, you're doing this thing wrong. You're doing this thing wrong. He just says, hey, come follow me. So much. So his first disciples, he picked up, he gave them a bag, like, set them for life. They walked away from the bag and said, actually, I'mma go with dude. And there is this. There is this learning and this knowledge that you come into through relationship. I think the issue with growing up in church is that we grow up in church. So we get into like this performance based things. I got to look a certain way, I got to act a certain way with no root or foundation in why we're doing it. The reality is Jesus loves, loves us. And once I experience and embrace and accept that love, I want to reciprocate it with how I live my life.

[D]

Right?

[E]

So my reason to follow Jesus isn't because I'm trying to make him. I can't earn his love. He gave it to me freely and once I start. So whenever I see somebody fall short or do something that's off centered, I go, they haven't fully embraced how much God loves them. And the issue is, when we were at church, they were like, don't do this because you want to go to hell. Well, of course I'm gonna make a decision because I don't wanna die and go to hell. But then most people think, well, that's after I die, so why does it matter? So that's not even a rooted foundation. But if I told you that somebody chose you, even if you decide not to choose them, they still made a decision about you and nothing you could do would ever change their mind. That's the kind of person you wanna get to know because you're like, dang, I could be raggedy and messed up and make the wrong decisions and this person never changes their mind. Yeah. And when I come face to face with that person, then I go, okay, now how does my life reflect the love that they've given me? I want to live up to the person that you saw fit to save that way.

[C]

So can I ask, this is a question, and I hate asking this question to people because I don't like to challenge people's religion.

[E]

No, let's go.

[C]

My biggest issue with religion is someone saying you have to. You only go through heaven through like believing in Jesus Christ. That's good to me, that that creates division amongst people. Right? Because what if I don't live in a place where they don't present Jesus Christ to me? So say I grew up in a Muslim, a Muslim place where there's like, there's no Jesus. You can only, for example, say you lived in Gaza right now and there's a holy war and you were never presented Jesus, you telling me that those people who are Muslim are going to hell? That was a question I always had to my pastor and no one could ever give me an answer. Like someone who grew up Buddhist, who never was introduced to Jesus. You telling me that that person's gonna go to Hell, that just never sat right with me. And it just feels like religion became so divisive for so many people because that was a way you can control masses. That it just scared me, you know, not that I judge other people. It just scares me, like, so if I gotta only believe this one thing, what if I die and then that one thing was wrong? You know what I'm saying?

[E]

Yeah. I think first of all, you asked five questions, so I'm sorry, but this.

[C]

Is why, I guess people used to shoot.

[B]

Yeah, that's a loaded first.

[E]

The Bible says that until the gospel has reached the ends of the earth, he won't return. So everybody will have an opportunity to hear the gospel. That doesn't necessarily mean that they'll make the decision to follow it. And so I think about when you talk about different religions, our faith and religion is built on Jesus. So the only way you have access to the things that are offered in Christianity is through faith in Jesus. It is a divisive world because this is a fallen world. The world we live in is not the world the Lord intended for us to live in. We live here now because we have sin shout out to Adam and Eve, it wasn't our fault, but that's the world we live in. And so I think that, like, we have to. We have to think of it like we all have a choice. Like, God didn't just say, like, here's what he's saying, like, you get to heaven through Jesus, that's the only way you get there. But I'm going to give you a choice. You don't have to choose Jesus, even though he chose you. And what happens at the end of your life is based off your decision. And because of that, like, you have free will. You want to choose it. And so I think it's like, not a sense of dividing. It is a sense of like, God wants to be chosen for his sake. And if you choose to follow something else as believers, I don't shun a Muslim, but I disagree with their choice of faith. And they believe as hard as we believe, probably harder. You know what I'm saying? They 10 toes down. There are other Jehovah's Witnesses think that they're only a certain.

[C]

So here's the question, who's right and who's wrong? And the fact that you have to choose one, to me, is what's problematic with religion, not spirituality. Growing up, especially in Brooklyn, I lived between Hasidic Jews, I lived between Muslims. There was a church on every corner. There's like those Three were like, the big three. And I would ask questions, and I would come across people ask questions, and me asking too many questions would get people upset. And they all, at certain times, felt like I was trying to tear down their religion. And I'm like, I'm not trying to tear down. I'm trying to understand. But the more questions I asked, people thought I was just being divisive or playing devil's advocate. And I was like, okay, so I'll seek it on my own. I went to college and studied. And when I went to college and studied religion, that's when I really started to gain my faith. Because, like, you both said, when you know that, you know, you know. And there were visions and things that I got in my mind when I was young, and my parents used to be like. Like, who made you believe that? And I said, somebody gave me the vision, and it wasn't y'.

[D]

All.

[C]

So there has to be a God, because someone is giving me the things that I know in order to be successful in life and putting me in front of people. For example, I met a Jewish dude. He had his knot underneath his beard, right? He had a knot from trying to tie it. And he was just like, hey, can you get this for me? So I untied it for him, and all my friends was like, why are you talking to this Hasidic Jewish dude? I'm like, he said he need help. Then he prayed. He said, let me say something. He prayed for me. And I said, thanks. I didn't know Jewish people. I was a young kid. I didn't know Jewish people prayed for black people. When I was about 15, I said, you know, I know y' all the chosen people. And he said, who told you that? And I said, y' all don't call yourselves the chosen people. And he literally said to me, he said, you don't have to be born Jewish to walk through the kingdoms of God or the kingdom of heaven. And that was. A Jewish guy said that to me. And I was like, that was strange, because I've never heard that before. Ran into a Muslim guy on Atlantic Avenue. Never forget, once a guy asked for help. So I stopped, like, what's up? Give him some help. And he prayed for me. And I was just like, what is that? And he's like, you have a great spirit. Don't ever let anything else darken your spirit. And I'm like, here's a Muslim person that prayed for me. Here's a Jewish person that played for me. And it was just like, like, who Am I to condemn their religion? Because I don't believe it. So it's hard for me to believe one thing. So I've just been very receptive and open to different type of people and walks of life. And that just been like my journey, like God has been, except everybody.

[F]

Bro, have you ever tried.

[C]

Yeah.

[F]

Have you ever tried to study, like Muslim?

[C]

Yeah, I took for two years. I studied, I studied. And to me it was the same thing. Like the traditions of the Muslim religion, there were certain things that. That about it that was kind of like, you know, like they were very salacious when it came to women. And I also got a vision from God that like, God was just like, well, I'm not a man now. This is another thing too. I don't want to ever say something that people feel like God was like, I can't be a gender. I'm a creator of all things.

[D]

That's it.

[C]

This is what. This is the message I got from God. And this is also what I've heard. He was just like, women create everything. Women come from life. Like. Like women are life. Like they are the vessel of life. Why would God be a man? And I was like, there's no religion in the world, not Christianity, Muslim or Jewish religion that puts women on the pedestal they're supposed to. So for me, it's always been an issue for me to just kind of go in there and go to these churches and it's all men up there, but the people we go to for nourishment and nurture is women.

[B]

And going back to this King James thing.

[C]

Oh, that's right.

[A]

We were talking about that.

[C]

No, we were talking about that.

[D]

I told him not going back there.

[E]

We were not.

[D]

I told him not to start.

[B]

No, but when you talk. Because when you talk about the Quran, talk about the King James version of the Bible, if you look through. I've never read the Quran, but I understand. I have friends that are Muslim. It's. All of it is extremely misogynistic. The King James ver. King James version was from what I understand. And my interpretation was very anti women. Which is why everything is thy man and thy brother.

[C]

A lot of things were.

[B]

And to your point, I'm like, well, from my own experience, it was women that gave me what I needed. And I will never forget. I remember hearing Debbie Allen say one time at. In the war show, she said, every person living and breathing should pledge allegiance to the birth canal.

[C]

We all came through that. We all came through the legs of a woman.

[B]

Life came through there that is a fact. You know? So what I believe is that you will see them pearly gates or whatever that really looks like based on how you serve.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

Because at the end of the day, what I long to hear, and I think everybody should long to hear, is, job well done, my good and purposeful servant.

[C]

You can tell we all grew up in.

[E]

We all know that.

[B]

And when I hear, accept Lord and Jesus Christ as your personal savior. It's the way of what he was.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

And how he operated, which was serve. That is what we're supposed to do.

[D]

Right.

[B]

And so I tell people all the time, at the end of the day, did you give somebody water when they were thirsty? Did you give them clothes when they were naked? Did you give them food when they were hungry?

[D]

Don't forget visiting them while they was in prison. Don't forget that. Don't forget that part.

[B]

I'm gonna be honest. I really feel like when you check all those boxes and you know from where your help comes and you acknowledge that, you acknowledge the source as such, there's no. God won't forsake you.

[D]

And I would say to you, too, like, have your get your. You just have to have your own relationship. And once you have your relationship, ask God for clarity. God will give you clarity. Whether he send it through Wes, if he sent it through Ms. Lawrence, if he sent it through the pastor, it might be a child or one of your kids.

[E]

Through the pastor, through the pastor, through.

[D]

The pastor said, whoa, whoa, whoa.

[E]

I think, like, the thing I will add to that is, like, I agree with personal relationship. And I think, like, it starts at. I could tell, like, you're a seeker. And so it's almost like God has to reveal himself to you in ways that we didn't all encounter him because of the way that you think. But it really starts with faith, and it really starts with having an honest conversation. Like, I talk to God, like, I'm sitting here talking to y', all, and it literally starts with God, show me who you are, like, in the most naturalist way, and he'll start to reveal himself. You already mentioned, like, I have visions, and God talks to me this way. The issue is that when we grow up with those gifts, if people don't know how to foster them, they will shun them and not dig into that. Somebody should have been cultivating that for you, because that's the way God speaks to you. And so I feel like it has to happen that way. I think the other thing is that, like, Jesus only gave us two commandments. It was to love him with all our heart, soul and mind and to love our neighbor as ourselves, which you touched on. And that is what it is. But when we talk about loving Jesus with our heart, soul and mind, that means it is hard to say it. It's like, because I know God is expressed in so many ways, but Jesus in the, in the bounds of Christianity is the only way. And it's hard to understand that. But it's also a journey we take with him. Because I think I brought the disciples because I'm like, they didn't even know, dude. He's just walking up on the scene as a random guy saying things. But my first experience with Jesus came from experiencing healing. I had asthma at 7 and I was, I wanted to be an athlete. I used to have to take the machine every night and I would go to bed at 7 and be like, God, I don't want to do this. And at 7, I got healed from it. I've never had asthma again. So I'm like, oh, you might be real. You know what I'm saying? And then I've seen that over and over again in life, like asking for something and watching him show up. Like, last year, I quit my job just following the Lord. That ain't. I live in la. It costs a breath. It's just not a thing I could just be out here doing. But I trust, trust God so much, I'm like, cool, I'll do that. I ended the year with a six figure book deal. I get to travel the world. And those are not the blessing. The blessing is I met Jesus along the way and I know he's a provider. You could make me, but you couldn't sit here, argue with me back and forth and be like, no, no, God doesn't provide. Oh, he does.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

No, I talk about, we just talked.

[A]

About the other day.

[C]

We talk about living in abundance because God knows that we will provide for other people for sure. One thing I've learned that has been clear to me over the, the past five years is that me opening my, my heart to understanding people relieved me from certain things. Right. I grew up in Brooklyn in the 90s. Homophobia, misogyny, and having elitist attitude was normal.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

You know what I'm saying? Like, if you a dude and you gonna survive, you gotta think you better than everybody else. You gotta think women ain't s. You know, I'm trying not to curse, Pastor. Sorry. But then, you know, y' all call her Brindle.

[D]

You ain't do anything, you know, You?

[C]

Yeah. Going on my journey to try to understand what God wanted from me. It really was just acceptance and accepting all things right. Every walk of life should be accepted, even if you don't agree with it, because that's that person's walk. Just like you said. My cousin did eight years, right? Grew up Southern Baptist. When he came out, he was Muslim. When he came out, he was Muslim because Muslim got him through doing that. You know what I'm saying? And you can't tell me that there wasn't something that they needed in that moment from the Muslim religion that got them through that. So for me, it's hard for me to cast anything against anybody. I don't care what you are, who you look like, the first thing I'm gonna do is just ask questions to get to know. But I realized when I ask questions, especially in the church community, because that's what we're talking about, that's when I get my most pushback back. Like, not.

[E]

Cuz they don't understand, they don't know. Some of it is fear, you know what I'm saying? Like, and there are things that scripture says, right, that we don't necessarily agree with. But it doesn't mean that I dehumanize you. Like, I still love you, even if that's the same thing. Like if she like the Falcons and I like the Bears, it's like, okay, that's cool, you know what I'm saying? Like, I can still love Angela. We gonna kick it, we going to hang out, we going to talk, you know I'm saying. And I think that what we, we are missing sometimes in the body of Christ is the relational fact, like, factor. Like I can sit and I could talk, I can engage. I've been doing that more. Like I just want to ask questions. Like most times people will say things to me and they be like, I know you're not gonna, you don't know what I'm gonna say. You know what I'm saying? Like, just say it and then we can have a conversation. Because I also want to understand what you, what you're saying and where you're coming from. I also can't show you your need for Jesus if I don't know your need, right? So I can't even, I can't even say like, oh, this is what he will do for you if I never took the time to sit and hear you out and listen and learn about you as a person. And so I do think that we're missing that. But please keep asking questions.

[D]

Right.

[E]

You probably just been asking the wrong people.

[C]

Yeah, I have. But it's also a fear. You don't want to offend people when. Because religion people take that very personal and you. I never want to knock someone off of their spiritual journey by asking a question that may get them thinking something. So for me, it's kind of like, let me not even ask this question openly. The only reason why I feel comfortable is cause Crystal made it up. You know, this is a place where we can be positive.

[E]

You know what I'm saying?

[C]

But I don't have, like, how many times we've all been in the room. And I've never talked to Wes about this because I don't ever want to hurt somebody. But these are questions. I really be sitting back like, I wonder if other people got these questions.

[D]

They do.

[F]

Do you feel like a blocking of a blessing because you don't ask the question or you don't get the answer? Or do you feel. Because at some point you really don't know what you.

[C]

No, I get what you're saying. My first thing is I'm always going to ask God. God for my entire life has provided me with answers. Like you said, there's been times in my life when I haven't had shit. And I'll be like, God, I just need a way. And then, wow, he won't give me the money. He going to give me a way. And I got to walk through that door to get it. Like, God has done that to me so many times and nobody can tell me God does it.

[D]

While you were saying about being more personal, like, I feel like that's why we having a hard time right now reaching this generation for sure. Because churches be rooted in tradition and we cannot be in order to reach this new generation. Like, that's what I do. I devote my time to children now, especially at risk children. The only way we going, we can't reach the them how grandma done reached us. We have to reach them where they are, and let's just get them in there.

[E]

The love. Yeah, like, it's the love. Like, I love that you said that. Like, I asked God for something and then it happens. And the next step in that is like, he ain't giving you the plan or the thing. So you be like, all right, God, I got you. I'll let you next time, right? No, no, no. That is now your invitation to find out who he is. There's a. It's a continual process. So the reason he keeps showing up for you that way is because he's like, at some point my son's going to come and sit with me. And I think sometimes the reason you can't find answers externally is because God wants to meet you where you are. And so I think sometimes some things we can learn from other people, they can build on it. But by the way, you think, I mean, God's going to have to literally sit on your bed and tell you something you ain't never told nobody. And you'll encounter him in a way that's going to be like, I know this is real.

[C]

Yeah, that's how it's been happening.

[E]

I know it's going to continue. No, it's going to continue to happen that way. And then to Ms. Lawrence's point earlier, then he'll show you, okay, where can I go to church? Because I mean, I, I grew up in church and sometimes I be like, oh, what is going on here? But I, we need the church. It's how we raise families, it's how we are discipled. Because for the most part we're having our own personal encounters. We open up the Bible going, what the heck does this mean?

[A]

Yeah.

[E]

And so we need to be in a church that is discipling us and saying, this is what it looks like to live this out. Cuz most of the time we grew up learning scriptures and had no idea what they meant. And it's like, oh, okay, right. But what does that mean for Monday through Saturday? And so I think like, this is a safe space. Like you have people that are like, nah, please ask me all the questions, you know? And if I don't know, I'm gonna be like, you know what?

[D]

I don't know.

[C]

I would appreciate that.

[E]

Yeah.

[C]

Because when you ask questions and people don't know and they shun you or they just tell you some bullshit, you be like, man, why?

[E]

You said, you said you could have been like, you don't know. I know I will be very. I'm gonna be like, I don't know that one, but I'm gonna find out. Yeah, like, I'm gonna go, you gonna help me become a seeker as well. I'm gonna make sure I have an answer for you. Like, I'm in seminary right now. Not because I hate it, I absolutely hate it. Like, I don't even like school, but I want to learn for people like you so I can be like, nah. Like, I do know that King James Version is the most tampered with version of the Bible. They don't even acknowledge it in on the scholar. Like on the scholar side, we learned that in college.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Gene Wyclef took so many words out and changed so many things because he wanted it to be a certain way. Which is also what scared me when I was like, how many generations have tampered?

[E]

Yeah. You said how many people did what he did? That's crazy. You can't be doing that. But the NIV is really, really accurate.

[B]

And it's like LAV was written. Wasn't that like by multiple people?

[E]

Yeah. So you need.

[C]

That's my thing.

[D]

But it's God inspired.

[E]

It's got it every. I mean, because here's the thing, bro. Like in olden times, before there was a Bible. That's why I keep telling you you need to have an experience first, which will then filter how you experience the Bible. You need the Holy Spirit to read the Bible, because if not, it's just words on a page.

[B]

Well, that's what I was going to say is you take from it and then you go to.

[E]

Yes.

[B]

Because you can't, you don't. You can't listen to people to tell you who God is. You will learn him for yourself. And once that happens, that then when you go back to those. Whichever book it is, and then you see, it will then make sense. The words, all of it will come together and it'll make sense. I tell people, to me, the original was written in Hebrew, in Greek, and.

[E]

Most of the words don't translate.

[B]

A lot of the words don't translate. So nobody can tell me anything based off what they have. I do believe in, in prophets, and I believe in anointing.

[C]

I agree. I agree.

[B]

Right. I will listen to those people because that doesn't come from a book. That doesn't come from a Bible. That comes from God. And he says, touch not my anointing. I'm gonna sit and listen to them. Not based on the book, because that means God has given them something to give to us, and I'm going to pay attention to them. Which is why that goes back to what I said. I asked God to point me in the direction of the, of the teacher that he needs me to hear from.

[C]

I always ask for this. I think that's a good one.

[E]

Well, I will.

[B]

I'm here. I'm curious.

[E]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I, I live by the Bible, but because the same way you just said, like, God will speak to a prophet and they will tell you what, like what he said. Same way the Bible was written, God spoke. I mean, God spoke, but those people experienced. Because in Bible Times there was not an actual scripture. They were orally testifying what happened and then it was being put on paper.

[B]

So my thing is, yes, they lend and teach and everything from the Bible. However, I think because there is a special anointing when it comes to prophecy, it for sure.

[E]

But how do you know what they're saying is coming from God?

[D]

I can tell you.

[E]

Yes, please.

[A]

So just last week, or was it last week two weeks ago? About two weeks ago, I was somewhere and there was a prophet there. And a friend of mine was like, hey, this is the prophet that's been praying over me for 17 years. Everything he has said has come to pass. And I was like, oh, why would he need to speak over me? So he ends up calling, said, hey, probably wants to talk to you. There were things that I had literally just text my lawyer the day before that this man was saying that he had no idea like that I. So many things are happening right now that he know me from Adam in my personal life that was happening. I'm like, I know this is God. I know this is God telling me to move. I know this is God telling me to start. It was something so simple as just start. And I hit my lawyer about just those two words. And he was like, God is telling me to tell you. Just start. Just start. Just start. I was like, what? I was like, I just sent this email to my lawyer yesterday. You didn't know.

[C]

She's not lying. She called me about this too. This is not. This is not a made up story. She was like, d, I got an idea. It's called just start. Then she spoke to the prophet and then she called me back, was like, d, you ain't gonna never believe what.

[B]

This prophet just said.

[C]

It happened just like that.

[A]

And it was so many different things, things that he was saying and that I had been. Or you said, God gives you visions. And then you start wondering, is this just me or did God really put this in my heart? The man was like, God has like five things he wants you to do at once. Because we start thinking we're crazy if we're doing too much. He's like, no, he. All these things he's planning you, he's just waiting on you to do them. And I was like, oh my goodness. But I think it's when he touches on things that you had personal conversations with God. That's how. When I know that this is real.

[E]

When he finished, what did he say? Like, how did he finish? Like after he wrapped it up, what do you say?

[A]

Like Something in Jesus name. But it was like. It was. Yeah, I have. I have recorded.

[E]

Yeah, yeah. So the reason I asked it is not. Not that I doubt that. Like, I. I'm, like, here for the prophetic. We had, like, a whole encounter in woman evolved together. Yes. So it's not that. It's just that we also have to be aware that sources can have access to you the same way the Holy Spirit can. And so what I would say will also be a. Like, a determining factor, even for people watching this. Because somebody, like, I'm gonna go find me a prophet.

[D]

That's right.

[E]

Not be from the Lord. And so I think that we prophesy in part, but the goal of that is that it always pushes you back to the Lord. So I think, like, if a person makes it about them, like, yeah, because I knew I did that. Right. Like, you gotta be careful. Cause it's a line. And so I say. I would say, like, a telltale sign for people watching who encounter, like, Jesus that way. It's like, did this person exalt and push me back to Jesus? Because that should be the source. And when it's not, that will be determined.

[C]

I wouldn't say that, because Kirk Franklin did that last night. He stood up there and smiled and everybody started cheering. And he said, no, no, no, no, no, not me. Which to me, I was like, that was wild, powerful, and deliberate. And then the thing is, they started cheering louder because he was like, no, don't cheer. I was like, dang, that was powerful. Like, seeing that last night was like. He was like, don't give it to me. Give it to him.

[E]

Because we are vessels.

[A]

Yeah.

[E]

So it's like this. I couldn't sit here and talk to y'.

[C]

All.

[E]

It's the wisdom of the Holy Spirit.

[D]

Spirit.

[E]

Like, I. I don't know nothing. Like, it's him. And so I think, like, when someone wants to minister to you, that should be their heart posture is that without God, I couldn't do this. Like, it's the Holy Spirit that's empowering me to be able to live it out.

[A]

That's so good. Something I want to ask all of you because you all have such amazing journeys. Pinpoint a point in your life where your faith was tested, where you really had to question God or even wonder if he existed. I know I've had those moments.

[C]

You laughing, too.

[D]

Well, we definitely know. My faith was tested when I was in prison. And even though I knew I was wrong, like, I broke the law, like, and not just the. Not just the Law. But I went against God, and I knew better. We all know to whom much is given, much is required. But I can say that my faith was really tested in the thick of it. I knew God. I knew I was not going to do 30 years. I knew I wasn't going to do 30 years. But it's like, faith will make you look crazy. People will begin to think you were crazy. So when people would ask me when I was going home, I would say, next year, and next year will come, and I'll still be there. And then it got to the point where I woke up and I told him. I said, don't call me Angie anymore. Call me free. Because I felt like every time somebody said free, they were in agreements. We were speaking it together to the atmosphere. And so I wouldn't even answer to the offices. Call me free. Call me free, because that's what I'm gonna be. I'm gonna be free, and I'm gonna go. I begin to write my book in prison. And people would say, what is she writing a book for? She is crazy. Her time is getting to her. I'm writing a book because guess what? It's not a New York Times bestseller yet. But it's published. It's out. I came home. It's a scene.

[E]

It's seen.

[D]

Yeah, it's a scene.

[E]

It's.

[D]

And I began to tell God. I said, now, God, I'm helping everybody else get out of prison. I started writing motions for people, and they were leaving. And the hardest time came when I watched my friend leave. They told me I was in. It was doing Covid. And they called up there. I was in confinement, and they said, corrine got immediate release. And I was like, wait a minute, Jesus. Wait one minute. Wait a minute now. Wait a minute. I'm helping everybody else, and it's working for them. And then it really was hard because this girl was not gonna file for clemency, right? And I encouraged. I'm like, no, you gotta file, you gotta file. And I said, well, here. She said, I don't know how to do it. I said, take my application. Take my name off of it. Put your name. Just change the information, y'.

[A]

All. She got out.

[D]

President Obama granted her clemency. Miles got denied my paper. That's my. And I said, well, I called my father boohoo crying. And I'm like, daddy, what's up with your God? What's your homeboy saying? Because how is crystal free? And I'm still in prison. And that was my paperwork. I Would have loved to lose it. But that was a time that I really had to be like. I cried and for three days late there, but then I had to get up and wash my face. And I had to continue to start back to throw. God say, throw it in his face. You know how people throw something in your face? They did for you. That's what I do, what God wants. God, you said that you were set the prisoners free. All right, hello, I'm still a prisoner. When are you gonna set me free? And I begin to say, you know, great is he that's in me than he that's in the world. I had to begin to speak that thing over my life. And, you know, January 13th, I walked out of prison a free woman.

[E]

Because faith ain't faith until you can't see it.

[B]

I feel like God needed you to.

[D]

Do all of that, but you don't understand that when. When you going, no, you don't understand. Crystal Reed. Had you not been there, she would.

[E]

Have still be there.

[B]

So it all worked together for the.

[D]

Good of those who love the. You know, for yourself, when you in the middle of it, you can't see. You be like, now, God, what you up to? Or it was times I'd be like.

[B]

But I. I have to ask you this. Were there moments where he sent you signs that I still got you?

[D]

Yes.

[A]

Always.

[D]

Yes. Yes, for sure.

[B]

Because I'm in the middle of that now.

[D]

God sent the. I call her my mother of another color. She, you know, Caucasian woman. And when I tell y', all, this lady fought for my freedom as if she had birthed me herself. She fought and she said, I'm gonna see you to the end of the door. And that's what she did. So when she came into my life, it was like, okay, I'm still here. And then just then things that was not even directly tied to my freedom. Like me asking God to keep my parents, because that was a fear of mine, you know, I was older when I got in troubles. 30 years old. My parents was already in their 50s. So I was saying, God, please don't allow my parents to leave this earth. Why me? So he covered me. Yeah, doing Covid and all of that. Yeah, he covered them. He kept them. They 73, they alive and well and not on any blood pressure medication. Lord, keep my kids, you know, and he did it. So it was times that he always showed me, like, I got you. And even some of the officers was super nice to me when I was in confinement for 17 months. 17 months confined in the room, because the government is just trying to get me to tell on other people, using me as an intimidation factor. It was still like, God still had me in that moment. He still kept me. It was just like, no, you my daughter. I got you. And I used to tell them, too. You know, some of the guards would sneak me, you know, food because they just felt bad. And I would tell them, y', all, when I go home, y' all gonna see me. Y' all gonna see me. Even, you know, girls that thought I was crazy, they say, oh, don't pay her no attention. She's just crazy. She's crazy. She's lost her mind. Her time has got to her. But now they on my social media scene. You said. You said you were doing. Yeah, but I continue to give God all the glory because it is him who I live and I'm moving. I have my being, and I also know that I have a greater responsibility, and we have to carry that. But definitely times that my faith was tested, and even now, coming home, you know, you want things to happen the way that you want them to happen. And I look and I feel like I'm not where I want to be, But I thank God that I'm not.

[E]

Where I could be.

[A]

Come on. That's good.

[D]

You know, so, yeah, even throughout this walk, as I continue, I'm free in mind, body, and spirit. But it's still times that I have to be like, okay, Lord, where you at? You said you was going to do such and such, and you haven't did it. And even being here in this moment, I have to say it, like, the way that I met Ashanna, right? Met her through somebody, a mutual friend, and she said to me, she said, didn't you just get an award in church? Didn't even know we attended the same church. Yeah, but just things that I told her, you know, share my deepest dreams with her and how she's been able. I believe God put people in your life to aid you along, to carry your dream, you know, through. And then just. Just sitting here, just sitting here amongst y'. All. You know what I mean? Just thankful. In this space and in this time, it's just another that God saying, I got you. Yeah, I got you for sure. Yeah, I got you so good.

[A]

I love that Big West. I want to know if you got anything.

[C]

Yeah.

[F]

I was at a point in my life where, like, everything was. Everything was off. Everything. I'm talking about health, full blood pressure meds. I was over £430. I wasn't 40 yet like to relationships.

[B]

With f.

[F]

Relationships like family, friends and these women. Like, nothing was ever working. Investments, work, nothing worked. I went through like a two year period of that and I was like, I had to sit down and check myself like, what are you doing? What are you doing? And when I really sat down and like locked myself in that room and had to face myself, it's all on me.

[B]

Yeah.

[F]

Like, you can't listen. Nobody can help you but you. So I had to dig deep. Like, I'm still, I'm still getting out of it. But you know, it's like I'm at a space where I'm alright, I know what caused it. I know how to get out of it. And I know if I keep my faith, I'm gonna be all right.

[D]

That's right.

[B]

Several times. The first time where I really, really had a moment where he like sent somebody. I had never experienced this before. I was in the process of. I had this idea to open up a chain of new salons when I was in the beauty. I was in the beauty industry and I wanted to open up a chain of new salons. At this time. I was also on the show Star. We were in our, I think we were in our first season, maybe second season. I was like, I want to do this, I want to do this now. While thinking I'm about to do these salons, my body is getting extremely tired. My mind is getting really tired. I'm starting to become sick because I'm juggling being an actor, becoming a better actor, which, you know, takes practice, takes patience. But I was also a full time hairstylist at the same time. So I literally was scheduling clients around what my film schedule would be. And then when I got off from the salon, I had to go home and study my lines and stuff to get to work and make sure I deliver properly. So I was becoming sick. So I had this idea. I said, well, if I open up, start the first chain of these salons that could essentially just kind of run themselves. I don't really have to be there. That'll set me up where I could really walk away. So I went around, I kept looking for spaces. I'm like, okay, this is a great space. I never had a problem. I could open a salon with my eyes closed. But this time, every new space I found, we would get there, almost there, where I'm about to. They about to send me a lease and they're like, oh, the developer said they don't want to do a salon here. Da da da da. It would Be all kind of crazy stuff back to back. I'm like, what is going on? And I'm still very tired. Now I'm questioning. I'm like, well, God, what is going on? Like, what is this? And I remember talking to one of my spiritual sisters one time. And she said. And I told her, I said, I don't know what to do. I said, I'm tired and I don't. My body is breaking down. Like, literally. I was turning dark, losing weight. It was terrible. And she said, have you need to pray like you need. I said, I have. She said. She said, no, no, you have to.

[D]

That breaking point. That's right. Yeah.

[B]

And I said, okay. And I said, well, maybe I haven't done that. Because we get caught up in our cardinal selves sometimes and don't do what we know we're supposed to do. And that is go to the source. So I went home that night, cut off everything, and I got on my knees, I lit my candles and I just prayed. And I said, God, I need you to show me. I need you to tell me what it is that I need to be doing. What is it that you want? What do you see for me? And I left it there. I left it. I cried out. I left it there. Two months later, I was sitting in Houston's at this time. It was on Lenox Road. This woman stops by my booth. I was with one of my closest friends. This lady stops by my booth. I've never seen her a day in my life. She lays her hand on my shoulder and she says, stop stressing over that salon.

[C]

What?

[B]

I swear to you, just like that.

[D]

That.

[B]

She said, stop stressing over that salon. I'm thinking, maybe she's a client of my salon. I said, maybe she's a client of my salon. Maybe she go to one of my stylists. And she's. Maybe had heard me going off in the. I said. I said. I said, do you. Are you. Do you come to my salon? She said, no. She said, God told me to tell you to let it go. So I got in the car, I turned on Donnie McClurkin and Dorinda Clark Cole. Let it go.

[E]

And you let it go. And I hollered all the way home.

[B]

Then I began to write my letter to my clients and then a letter to my staff. And I mean, baby, when I tell you I had to keep turning. Cause it was wet and Fast forward got bumped to series regular, you know. Got bumped to series regular. Right after that, you know, I got offered a Billie Holiday movie And, you know, things were great. Now, let me also add every pinnacle moment of my career thus far. I've not had an agent. I've not been able to secure an agent. I've not been able to have proper management because I was always told that I was unusual talent. And they don't know what the pitch would be. However, everything I've done has been top tier.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So right there, he showed me, I'm your agent.

[D]

That's right.

[B]

But even at that, I still was.

[E]

Like, well, God, why can you send it into me?

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm like, this person got an agent. This person got. What's the. I don't understand. What's the difference? But I left it alone. I said, okay, God, I know. Obviously, you got me again. You keep showing me signs. I get a new job or whatever the case may be. Fast forward now. Here we are, we go into a pandemic, then we go into a strike. The coins have run completely out. I don't have anybody in human form working on my behalf to secure me new deals and new jobs and stuff. And so for the last two, three years, I don't know, I have literally been operating on my spiritual savings account. We talked about it, but my spiritual savings account. And that God has placed a village that is so strong and so rich in my life that I have not. There are a lot of things that I want for, but what you need. But everything that I need is provided. And I mean everything from mortgage payments, everything from water, everything from making sure my mother is taken care of because I lost my father last year, and that was a whole new thing I had to take on. And so, because I learned from my first experience to not question him and just trust him. While I get uncomfortable a lot, don't.

[E]

Like how it feels.

[B]

I get it. I don't like how it feels. I get very uncomfortable from not having a car to a friend of mine, like, take my car, keep it till you get another one. Like all of that, as uncomfortable as it's been I can expect Explain why I still have peace yes, there's a piece that I cannot explain Yes, I have no lack, no lack I have no lack but also no money yeah, yeah. And so what God showed me was I am the richest. I am the resource, I provide the abundance. I'm the supplier I'm the supplier of all your needs. Not a job.

[A]

My gosh, not a job.

[E]

No. For sure.

[B]

And so to answer the question, God has shown up and showed me who he was so many times and through every Hard or hurdle or tribulation, you name it. He has kept my peace. He's given me a sense of miracle, signs and wonder for me to. For me to stay sane and just trust him. And it works.

[A]

That's amazing. Now, Deval, you. I. And Ms. Lawrence, and I mean, well, she work in the entertainment industry as well. But Hollywood and God do not mix. You know, they always try to say, hey, don't say God or Jesus. Just. Or say God. Don't say Jesus. Yeah, I. Thank you, God. Like, no, like, they tell us to, like, not do those things. I haven't really been told that, but we know it. It's like an unspoken thing. Has there been anything that projects or boundaries that you set within your career because of your faith or things or just your personal beliefs or things that you like? I'm not doing that.

[C]

Yeah. I've had one role where it was a rape scene.

[A]

Wow.

[C]

And I just refused to do it. I just was like, there's something about that. And they were like, well, as a thespian. And I said, I get it, but I can use my tool for what I want to perpetuate. And the person that I was raped was not a woman of color. And I'm like, you expect me, as a black man to do this? I'm not doing that. I'm just. I'm not doing it. It was a small, short film that was supposed to give me some opportunities to go. And I was like, I'm not doing that. My kids gonna have to watch that. And the thing is that things you put out in the world people see and how people get introduced to you, sometimes they can never get that back. And I never wanted someone to see me in that position. And I didn't care if the story. Cause the story was actually a really good story. But I said, I cannot play that role.

[A]

Play that role.

[C]

I just. I refuse to do it.

[A]

I'm the same way. I have boundaries, like what I show on my body and, you know, because we had those intimate scenes together, and you always make sure I'm safe and that I'm protected and covered where I don't want to be shown.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And there's. There was a. It was. I had a scene where it wasn't showing the rape, but it was the aftermath of the rape. It just alluded that she had gotten raped, but it just happened. And even in that, I was like. But it was telling a true story. So I was like, okay. As a.

[C]

As an artist, yeah, this is a story.

[A]

And that story needs to be told. So I had auditioned for it, but someone else ended up getting it. I was like, it was between me and this other person. But I even had to call my dad. I was like, dad, like, is it bad to do this? And he was like, what's the story? You know? He was like, and what do you have in the show? Like, well, it's not showing that part. He was like, okay. So it's just the aftermath and the effect that. But there's, like, certain. I've always said I'll never do, like, any, like, demonic movies or movies that, like, will torture my soul afterwards. Certain things, like, I'm scary anyway, so I don't need to be, like, still seeing it.

[D]

Still seeing it.

[A]

Yeah. So I'm always like, there's certain things I just want to do in horror. I'm not really into that anyway. So there are certain things I won't do. But because of my. Found my faith, I do have boundaries that I said. What about you, Ms. Lawrence?

[B]

Not. Not yet. I've not come across anything yet where I'm just like, no. That does not align with, you know, my spirit. And I am very. I'm good about taking myself out of the equation when I'm offered a role or. But I take my time and get to know who this person is that I'm about to take on. And if I feel like how you go to your father and ask him, is this someone whose story definitely needs to be told and am I the person to do it? And if so, I want to fully, fully commit if that person. Whatever insecurities that person might have had, give them to me in that moment, because I want to do this. Them. I want to do them justice. And the only role. The role that I felt that the most was when I played Miss Freddie in the United States versus Billie Holiday. Because he was a person whose name was never spoken because of who he was during the 40s and 50s era, because he chose to live honest and out loud. And so I wanted to give him everything that I could and that the director would allow me to give.

[A]

He did. Amazing.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

I know you were just in Deliverance, and that was a movie that. It was a lot of different conversations around that movie. But I found out that you all had a pastor on set that prayed, and you guys were actually telling a true story.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And that's what people kind of missed. It was like. And at first I was like, I'm scared to watch it. They're like, no, it's a true story. And I was like, okay. I was like, that can get into it because sometimes when you just feel like they're like making up this stuff. But like, that was a real true story. When I found you guys had a pastor there, I was like, wow, that's.

[B]

Dope to just really pray over you. He was on set the whole time and he came by to everybody's trailer. Well, of course you had to say it was okay for him to come in. He came, he prayed and told us why he was doing this, why he was called, and all this kind of stuff. And that was quite an experience.

[A]

Yeah, I can imagine.

[D]

And one of the directors, Jackson, he was an atheist. When y' all started filming that movie, I just found this out. He was an atheist. And now he saved. His kids are in Christian school and everything.

[E]

That's the story he said he came from.

[D]

He told me this, like just last week. And he was saying it came from. Y' all prayed every day before y' all got started and everything. And I just was like, you what? You. I said you was. He's like, no, I was an atheist. I just did not believe anything. And he's. And he's saved now.

[A]

No one is too far from.

[D]

I.

[E]

Will meet you wherever. This proves it.

[C]

I watch my dad, bro. Like my dad. You never met my pops.

[F]

I met him.

[C]

Oh, you did meet my pops. You see how he just be jealous? I'll never forget this. My father came home working from Chase Manhattan Bank. He said, bro, I got laid off today. You told me I'm walking on to college. You said you had me the first semester. I got you, bro. Gotta provide.

[B]

Come on.

[C]

And walked away. I kid you not. I think he had a three month contract left. The last day of the contract, Scoop, you can tell this story. Cause I'm not lying. The last day of the contract, he's there at the store, you know, he's getting ready to leave. No one else is there. This is his last day. He's like, let me make sure everything is cool. While he's walking out, the guy says, hey, Troy, I'm glad I saw you. I'm doing a contract over at Sundial. I wonder if you're interested. The next day, they hired my father as a. What is it called? Not a contractor when you help people build their business. A consultant. And had to get paid time and a half. So he got paid more money consulting than he was working at the job. And he was at that job for the next four years. And when I watched that, I'm like, I'm like, my father never.

[D]

He.

[C]

The time was coming down and he jollied every day going to work. And I'm like, you not stressed?

[D]

He said, no, I've never seen the righteous forsaken or see begging for bread.

[C]

You know what scared me, though?

[B]

That's it.

[C]

And y' all can tell me if this scared you. I was afraid that if I don't have faith like, that I was going to hell. And I was like, whatever type of faith my father got, I want that. I don't know how to get it. And that's what I'm spending the rest of my life trying to get. Because the way you talk about God, the way you talk about God, I just. I'm like, y' all have gone through things. And I'm like, okay, maybe it hasn't been my time yet, but I will say, listening to you speak, you speak. You speak as a woman of great knowledge and wisdom, but also very genuine. You know what I'm saying?

[D]

You're not trying to accept it. Don't go to prison after get. Let's leave that part out.

[E]

Find come Truly at a. I appreciate.

[C]

All of y', all, man.

[D]

I really do.

[E]

Thank you for your questions. Like, thank you for feeling safe enough to.

[C]

Well, that's. That's Chris. Chris told me this. I was like, all right, well, I'm going to come here and ask, cuz I knew she would, you know, protect me with people that's not going to look at me like, what is wrong with this guy?

[A]

No, seriously, that's what I wanted. I wanted to create a safe space that we all could be free to ask the questions that we want to ask, talk about our truths, and really just get some knowledge. Because Brenda is a wealth of knowledge. I ask her questions about everything. We'll be going through a whole dinner, and I haven't. She's like, inside, I'm waiting for it.

[C]

You know it's coming.

[E]

I said, wow, you waited an hour. I didn't ask this long.

[A]

Yeah. So seriously, thank you, guys. I. I just recently went through a time where I was questioning if this whole being out loud about God and Jesus was even worth it. Because as we say that Christians can be so judgmental, they can be some of the. I'm talking about just cruel people, you know, especially, like on the Internet, what we see all the time. And as I was being more and more out loud and just transparent about me not being perfect, then it's like people come at you even harder and even got to the podcast I was like, I feel like my podcast becoming too churchy. Like, I'm not there. I don't want to talk about God. Like, let's just keep it cool, fun. I want them to see who I am. Like, let's have different people on. And here we are, first episode, talking about God.

[B]

In all our ways.

[A]

Acknowledge him for sure.

[E]

And I think, I think, like, something I feel like I always work through is how do I hold truth and what I believe, but also makes sense space for your journey. And the Internet doesn't allow that. They just see the one moment and they don't consider, oh, she's journeying through this the same way I am.

[C]

Absolutely.

[A]

And that's what I want Christians to really do more of. Like, understand that we're all on different paths, all in different parts of the journey, but we're all on a journey together. And if we give each other like, okay, where are you? Okay, I see where you are. Let me help you.

[E]

Exactly.

[A]

Along the way, versus is like literally being like, oh, you ain't you over here doing.

[D]

I'm like, you know what I am.

[E]

You know, and I'm going to go do more. And I do. I think it's a. We have a responsibility as believers to see, like, okay, dang, Chris needs help. So the first thing I did was like, okay, I'm here to serve you. Like, let me know. And that's what it's about. Like, I'm going to get on the journey with you now. We going to go together.

[A]

Yeah, I appreciate that. All together. All right, So I know everyone has a amazing things going on and things on the horizon. I want our audience to support you because the Kips and the Sweeties family, when I tell you they are ride or dies. And if we say go support it, I know y' all can go support it. So, Dev, starting with you, I know you got some dope things going on.

[C]

Yeah. First and foremost, make sure you watch Sisters every Wednesday at 9pm on BET. Make sure you stream Zatima every Thursday on BET. Plus, make sure you tune in to Netflix the November 6th meet me next Christmas, starring me and Christina Milian. Make sure you tune in to Deadass Podcast every Wednesday on iheartradio wherever you get your podcast. And in March, make sure you go check out Othello on Broadway. I'm a co producer alongside Brian Moreland, so go check those things out.

[A]

Yes. Love it, love it, love it.

[D]

Lord, give me something around. Give me some of that. No, everybody, I have a book out pit to palace mentality. And it's 10 key principles to see your way through your worst situation. Some good principles in there. It's available on Amazon. Also, my nonprofit is Almost Tax Time. Y' all need a write off chance to change. And it's geared towards children who parents are incarcerated. And right now we have a heavy focus on fighting crime. We know the gun balance is super high in Atlanta amongst the ages of 12 to 16, 18 years old. So we're trying to stop that trajectory or whatever in the podcast. It's on all platforms. Break free for your spell. P H R E E. I still go by that. So it's. It's available wherever audio is and it comes on YouTube every Tuesday. Make sure y' all tune in. Make sure y' all support your girl. And Crystal, I want to thank you for allowing me to be on your platform. Thank you for giving me a space to speak and you didn't even know me. Thank you for taking a chance on me. And to the viewers, I want to tell y' all that nothing is impossible with God.

[A]

Amen.

[D]

Luke 1:37. Nothing.

[A]

That's so good. No, Angela, thank you. Your story is so dynamic and I just love what you're doing. So I'm honored to have you here.

[D]

Thank you.

[C]

Oh, yeah. I think the gospel music is haunted. We got you radical with our message.

[E]

You say I know all those words. I have a podcast called Life in Perspective with Brenda Palmer. It comes out every Monday, y'.

[D]

All.

[E]

I just really be on the gram, like dropping gems every day, hanging out with people, going live. That's just what I do. So you can follow me at iambrendapalmer, everywhere, TikTok, Instagram, YouTube. And I have my first book coming out.

[C]

Congrats.

[E]

But it comes out next June. But you gotta follow me so you get all the details. It's called the Journey of. Yes. The Everyday Adventure of Radical Obedience.

[A]

Oh, that's not the name I picked.

[D]

It's not.

[E]

It's not. You said you was waiting. That is not the one. That one was more accurate.

[A]

Yes.

[E]

So it comes out June of 2025. I'm super duper excited and thank you for creating this space for us.

[A]

Thank you, Brenda. You inspired this. I appreciate you. Thanks for coming all the way from Los Angeles.

[D]

Come on.

[A]

Always be with us, Ms. Lawrence.

[B]

I think this is my camera here.

[A]

Yep, you got it. Yes.

[B]

Follow me on social media, Ms. Lawrence and my sister as Lawrence. I am going into a new journey of real estate. While I'm waiting on my next project, which is scheduled to begin in 2025. There is still a working title. I don't know if they're set on the title yet, but I can tell y' all this because he put it out there. I'm going to be a detective. I'm be your next detective. I'm going to be your next detective on your TV screen. Just stay tuned.

[D]

That's fine.

[B]

And also, I started a movement. I'm calling it Plated Purpose, which I created to bridge the gap or to aid in bridging the gap between the black LGBTQ community and the black straight community. It's something that I'm very passionate about, something that I think is very necessary only because we are so disconnected and only because we don't fully really understand each other and know each other. So, Crystal, thank you for moments like this because this is what it is. Yep. And this is. This is very reflective, actually, of what Plated Purpose is. So follow me and stay tuned because there's a lot more coming with Plated Purpose.

[A]

Thank you so much. So, big fella, big words.

[F]

Well, you can first catch everything. Well, all things Crystal Renee.

[E]

But I.

[F]

Also have a big and tall men's clothing line coming up. Q1, the big fella. Hey, Sugie B. You called me Big smooth earlier.

[D]

Listen, it's coming.

[F]

Don't even worry. Don't you worry. It's coming. See, I. Q1.

[D]

That's right.

[A]

Well, guys, thank you so much. Seriously, I feel like conversations like this are what people need who are seeking that knowledge, who are seeking wisdom and just trying to get closer to God and really don't know how. I appreciate you guys. We were just at Woman evolved and they were saying that the unlikely ones are going to be the ones that are rising up, touching people, and I feel like this conversation is definitely going to do that. So thank you.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

One of the reasons I love the conversations that we have on this show is because they leave me so full and I learn so much. One of my biggest takeaways from this talk is, guys, we are so much more alike than not on this face journey. So give each other grace. Don't be so judgmental and be there for one another. Thank you guys so much for spending some time with me today. You can follow me on all platforms at lovechrystalrenae and you can also follow our show at K. Keep it positive, sweetie. If you want to write into our positive outcomes listener letter, you can send us an email at keepitpositive, sweetie, gmail.com. in the meantime, in between time. Y' all already know what to do. Keep it positive, sweetie. I'll see you guys next time.

[D]

Sam.