The Business of Betting on Yourself w/ Brian Jordan Jr.

Summary

Podcast Summary: "The Business of Betting on Yourself"

Podcast: Keep it Positive, Sweetie
Host: Crystal Renee Hayslett
Guest: Brian Jordan Jr.
Date: December 14, 2025

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Overview

In this uplifting episode of Keep It Positive, Sweetie, host Crystal Renee Hayslett sits down with actor, singer, director, and storyteller Brian Jordan Jr.—best known for his role as Maurice in Tyler Perry’s Sistas. Their heartfelt conversation dives into Brian’s origins, perseverance, self-discovery, and the journey to betting on himself—both in his career and his creative ventures. They explore the power of resilience, representation, and purpose, showing listeners the business and heart behind "doing impossible work for impossible dreams."

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Roots & Early Aspirations

(04:16–06:28)

• Brian hails from rural Louisiana, raised in Baton Rouge with four siblings and a single mother.
• As a child, Brian dreamed big: “I wanted to be so many different things…I wanted to be Michael Jackson for like the first six years of my life.” (04:37)
• Hurricane Katrina was a pivotal disruption: “You look up one day and it’s one thing, and then the next…and it’s disaster. And you’re like, trying to get out and trying to find somewhere to go and trying to find food and water and shelter…” (08:03)
• Discovery of theater in college was transformative—fueled by a formative encounter with Debbie Allen, who recognized his raw potential.

2. Resilience Through Adversity

(06:28–13:28)

• Katrina to Gustav to ongoing Louisiana floods: Brian describes the trauma, rebuilding, and community impact (“The rebuilding has been so challenging for the city, for the state. Still now, I mean, 20 years later, it’s just not the same.” (10:23))
• Navigated cultural differences transitioning from all-black schools to predominantly white institutions (PWIs) at LSU and NYU/Tisch: “When you move somewhere else, it’s like living in another country.” (11:02)
• Importance of arts education: “Debbie Allen… is really the reason that I’ve clung to arts education, and that has really helped me to like, navigate my path.” (12:18)
• Overcame financial hardship, including losing a fellowship, sleeping on trains and friends’ couches: “I spent some nights on a train in New York… I was determined not to go home.” (14:33)

3. Navigating the Industry & Self-Worth

(15:11–17:44)

• Confidence wasn’t innate: “I would pretend a lot. If I can be honest, I didn’t really believe that I could have all this until maybe 2018…” (15:36)
• Breaking into Sistas came after realizing self-belief, moving beyond trying to convince others: “We spend so much time trying to convince other people that we don’t even do the work to make ourselves believe.” (16:07)
• Discussed challenges of being a Black actor in white-dominated spaces and telling Black stories to wider audiences.

4. The "Sistas" Breakthrough & Character Work

(17:44–23:49)

• The path to Maurice: Brian at first auditioned for other roles, faced unexpected obstacles getting to the audition (“…the car wouldn’t start. Carolyn Martin had a shoestring tied to the hood.” (19:12–19:16)) but went all in.
• After his audition, Maurice was upgraded from a recurring to a major role—over 200 episodes now.
• Crystal on the audition: “I remember sitting in the back of the room...and I was like, that’s Maurice.” (17:59)
• Differentiating himself from his character: “Maurice is such an escape from who I am... Brian is a person who has such a big heart for people.” (22:03–22:07)

5. Visibility, Body Image & Discipline

(28:12–35:02)

• Navigating fame and its challenges: Being recognized, security issues, and shifting personal boundaries.
• Body image struggles: “Film and tv…there is a conventional standard of beauty that I did not meet… Then it happened even more because I was on TV every week.” (29:09)
• Candid dialogue on comparison, discipline, and shifting fitness/nutrition habits: “I had to figure out what was more important. And I still love to eat…but it’s in a very different way.” (31:36)
• Running and lifting weights became anchors. “I intermittent fast...when I say I was working out from the wrong place and trying to accomplish something based on somebody else…” (34:04)

6. Lessons from Tyler Perry & the 'Sistas' Family

(36:19–40:19)

• Tyler Perry's master class in ownership: “Nobody is talking about the master class in techniques that it requires for someone to amass [that success] on their own...Tyler Perry has a method.” (36:59, 37:33)
• Lessons in discipline, finance, and leveraging every opportunity: “This thing could go away fast...You can go from being on TV and then there’s Covid...then there’s a strike…” (39:20)
• The importance of building community and interdependence among his castmates.

7. Creating 'Riley': Artistry, Authenticity & Ownership

(42:35–56:41)

• Eight-year journey developing Riley, a musical celebrating HBCU culture and “what it looks like when Black people decide not to struggle anymore.” (58:02)
• Initially started as a play, grew into original music—over 50 songs written, 19 on the album (“I’ve written 54 songs, and we’ve kept 32 in the musical, and there are 19 on the album.” (44:49))
• Inspirations from his Southern University “lab school” roots and the broader Black college experience.
• Lessons from directing “The Wiz” at True Colors Theatre: serving the people with culturally resonant art, and integrating business acumen from working with Tyler Perry.
• Balancing creativity and practicality while producing independently: “You may want a lot more than what you can afford, and so you have to make those decisions...I learned a lot of lessons. I did a lot of scaling back on what I dreamed.” (55:23, 56:39)

8. Advice for Dreamers & Self-Care

(59:59–66:09)

• Advice to young artists: “If the dream is insane, do an insane amount of work to dream...Dreams don’t make sense. So you have to do a senseless amount of work.” (60:29, 61:33)
• On grounding himself: friends, food, therapy, boundaries, and faith. “There is proof...How many times does God have to show you until you’re able to say, you know what? You got it.” (66:01–66:04)
• The necessity of saying “no” and finding inner peace.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Surviving Disaster:
  “There’s always a silver lining on the cloud…I always say that there wasn’t enough warning. And you look up one day and it’s one thing, and then the next, and it’s disaster...”
  – Brian Jordan Jr., 07:07

• On Self-Belief & Success:
  "I didn't really believe that I could have all this until maybe 2018. And then my life changed right after that whenever I decided—whenever I believed for real."
  – Brian Jordan Jr., 15:36–16:07

• On Comparing Self to Others (Body Image):
  "My change was based in what other people looked like...it was. I was comparing myself to people all the time...And it was tough. It is tough."
  – Brian Jordan Jr., 30:47

• On Tyler Perry:
  "Tyler Perry has a method...When we...hear about the Stanislavski methods...But Tyler Perry has a method. There is a method that he has developed...in the execution of television, film, and theater."
  – Brian Jordan Jr., 37:33

• On Independent Creativity:
  “I want all the artists. I want 65 dancers in a 47 piece orchestra. And I’m like, hey, brother, pull it on back...I learned a lot of lessons. I did a lot of scaling back on what I dreamed…”
  – Brian Jordan Jr., 56:39

• On Self-Worth and Representation:
  “What it looks like when Black people decide to not wait on the celebration of others. And what it looks like when Black people decide that there is wealth and real estate in our own selves.”
  – Brian Jordan Jr. on Riley, 58:02

• On the Dream-Work Balance:
  “If the dream is insane, do an insane amount of work to dream...No one talks about the impossible work.”
  – Brian Jordan Jr., 60:29–61:33

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Important Segment Timestamps

• Brian’s Early Life & Katrina: 04:16 – 10:23
• Theater, College, and Debbie Allen Influence: 05:29 – 13:28
• Auditioning and Landing Maurice on Sistas: 17:54 – 21:36
• Fame, Body Image, and Confidence: 28:12 – 35:02
• Tyler Perry’s Influence & Sistas Lessons: 36:19 – 40:19
• Building & Balancing ‘Riley’: 42:35 – 56:41
• Advice to Young Artists: 59:59 – 62:16
• Faith, Grounding, and Self-Care: 62:28 – 66:09

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Closing

The conversation peels back layers behind the public persona, revealing Brian’s resilience, heart, and the real business of staying true to purpose. Listeners are left with the encouragement to both dream big and do the relentless work required—to trust their calling, build their own tables, and “work, work, work.”

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Find Brian Jordan Jr.:

• Instagram/Twitter/TikTok: @brianjordanjr
• Riley-related merch & updates: hbcusical.com
• Riley the Mixtape: available on all streaming platforms

"Work for the impossible dream. Serve your community. And always keep it positive, sweetie."

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Transcript

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[Brian Jordan Jr.]

All.

[Coca-Cola Announcer]

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[Brian Jordan Jr.]

Mmm.

[Coca-Cola Announcer]

Yeah, that taste always hit the right note. Just like the band at halftime. Passionate fans, school colors everywhere and an ice cold Coca Cola. That's a winning combo. No matter the place, no matter the moment, Everybody knows fan work is thirsty work. So grab a Coca Cola and keep that HBCU pride going.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

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[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Ugh.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

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[Brian Jordan Jr.]

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[Brian Jordan Jr.]

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[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Calling all my Sweeties to the forefront, I'm your host, Chris Renee Hazlett, and this is the Keep It Positive Sweetie Show. Welcome to the Keep It Positive Sweetie show, the place where we heal, grow and learn together. This week's guest is a multi talented actor, singer, director and storyteller, Brian Jordan, Jr. You know him from Tyler Perry's Sisters. But today we are diving into the man behind the music, the message and the movement, Kip's family. Without further ado, please welcome my dear friend, my close mate, Brian Jordan, Jr. Oh, close mate. Hi, friend.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

Hello.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

You're here.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

Finally, finally, finally. Look at us, look at us. Look at us all grown up.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

We've come a long way since 2019. Yeah, a long, long way.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

Long, long way.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

People have no idea, but we're gonna get into it.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

Absolutely.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

But you are from Louisiana. Yes, Baton Rouge by way of New Orleans.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

Absolutely.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

A lot of people know you from the hit show Sisters. They know you as Maurice Webb. But I want to know Brian Jordan, Jr. I know Brian, but I want the audience to know who you are. Take us back to young Brian. We want to just build this whole conversation. I really want to know where you come from, who you are at your core, and how it shaped who you are today.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

Wow. Young Brian, he was something else. I've always been a kid that had a big opinion and big dreams, whatever it was. I wanted to be so many different things. I wanted to be Michael Jackson for like the first six years of my life. And then I wanted to be a football player and then not. And then I wanted to be one again and then not. And then I realized that I wasn't going to be professional, but I did play.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Okay.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

But I grew up in rural Louisiana, moved to Baton Rouge after the hurricane, and I stayed in Baton Rouge for College. And I grew up in a big family for four brothers and sisters, a single mother and low socioeconomic. But I knew that I wanted to do more. I knew that I wanted to be more, but I just couldn't quite figure out what that more was until I went to college. And then I found the theater.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

The theatre.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

I found the theater, and I was able to understand just the dexterity of myself whenever I could play different characters. And I met Debbie Allen my freshman year of college because she was doing residencies in Baton Rouge. And I auditioned, and she saw something in me because I couldn't dance, or I really didn't have any training, but she saw something in me that she knew could be trained.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Wow. That's important.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

Absolutely. And so shout out to Debbie Allen. I mean, she's everybody's goat.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Iconic.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

She is. She doesn't get the credit that she deserves, but I'm gonna always give her credit. And she gave me so many opportunities to train, and she guided me in the right directions to go to drama school in New York, and the rest is history. But little Brian still kind of lives in me today. He was funny, and he loved to eat, he loved to cook, and he loved to throw it on, you know, clothes and all the things. Yes. So, yeah. Yeah.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

I love that you talked about moving to Baton Rouge after the hurricane, and you're talking about Hurricane Katrina.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

Yes.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

That was something that the entire world saw happen, but we didn't live it.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

Yes.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Can you take us back to that time and was it, like, what we saw on the news, or was it because I recently watched a documentary on Netflix and it was heartbreaking to, like, really hear the testimonies of the victims of Hurricane Katrina. Can you talk about your experience?

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

Absolutely. You know, I can't watch the documentaries. I think I watched way back. It's been 20 years, and I was in the ninth grade whenever it happened.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Wow.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

I often like to speak to the documentaries because I think that it was such a subcultural disaster that the rest of the world can digest it as a thing that seems so far away. I feel like it put New Orleans and Louisiana, because it was the southern cities of Louisiana, Lafayette, Baton Rouge and New Orleans were heavily impacted. And then there was another hurricane that came right after it that nobody talks about. Gustav. And so we went a long time. I mean, beyond what you saw, like the field Superdome and the people swimming to safety and being on the roofs. The larger issue was the lack of support that we had thereafter. And electricity was gone for. I think that we went Almost two months without lights. And obviously the water was messed up if it was on. And there was food insecurity, and people were looking for housing, and people had to start their lives over. They lost everything. And starting in new schools. Just think about all the kids who had to start in new schools. And so it's something that was very difficult, but I think that that type of disaster. And this may sound morbid, but I always think about those type of disasters happening. I could. I could say that I've lived through about four hurricanes that weren't as bad, but we've lost electricity for a very extended period of time. There's been floods. You know, Louisiana is just that type of place. But when you go into, like, a Covid that is a disaster where you see the loss of lives and you're able to conflate that with something that you were able to experience as a child, I think that that's what helped me to kind of get through it, because disaster wasn't a stranger to me. I know. And there's always a silver lining on the cloud. And I think that clouds are apropos to a hurricane because it was scary. I mean, as a kid, and just. There wasn't enough warning. I always say that there wasn't enough warning. And you look up one day and it's one thing, and then the next, and it's disaster. And you're, like, trying to get out and trying to find somewhere to go and trying to find food and water and shelter and light, and just a lot of families who can't afford to just get up and evacuate, you know? But thank God we made it. And I didn't lose any family members in Katrina, thank God. But it was a difficult time, and it's difficult to watch. I mean, there are even times, and I know that you and I share this experience when we were housed in quarantine.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

I was gonna ask you about that, because that was. They're basically like FEMA trailers.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

Absolutely. They were exactly like them.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

And I remember you making a statement about that. You were like, I couldn't sleep.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

Yeah. The smell of it. The smell of it just. It smelled like a FEMA trailer. It smelled like that type of thing. And just a reminder and those small reminders. I mean, even when it rains, I don't like to drive and it rains. And I think that that has something to do with that. And thank God for therapy to work through those things.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yes, absolutely.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

But, yeah, we just. Hurricane Katrina was huge. But, I mean, living in Baton Rouge, Gustav was actually More impactful in the aftermath. And there was a huge flood that happened in 2016, I think, and people lost everything. It's just, you know, it's a constant struggle with the sea level being so low.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yes.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

And not to talk too much about it, but just the rebuilding, I always like to say this. The rebuilding has been so challenging for the city, for the state. Still Now, I mean, 20 years later, it's just not the same. And economically, it's not the same. And so, you know, shout out to Louisiana.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah, Shout out Louisiana. We went for Essence Festival this year, and there's so much culture and so much history there. And the food is amazing. The food, yes. So good. Your journey took you from LSU to NYU and Tisch, and then to Debbie Allen's School of Dance. How did that journey shape the artist that you are today?

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

I think that when you live in Louisiana and you stay in Louisiana for undergrad, or you stay there for college, when you move somewhere else, it's like living in another country. Louisiana is such a cultural. There's such a cultural difference in the rest of the world. But also, I think that I went to an all black high school, and when I left that all black high school and went to college at a PWI and then to drama school at another PWI in a very white based industry, theater, I learned so much about what my place was in the world and what I had to offer the world and what people felt that I had to offer the world and all those type of things. And so understanding that there was a world outside of just the segregated Louisiana that I had grown up in was interesting. But then, you know, there was even a thing with, like, language. You know, I'm from Louisiana and I had an accent and it was trained out of me. And so people always talk about the way that I speak now. They're just like, I can't tell that you're from Louisiana. And I'm like, but you can do it.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Hit it. One time.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

Just one time for you, baby. Just that. Be quiet, Crystal. No, but, you know, just those things. It was an assimilation that I learned. And just being a black man in a super white space, coming from Louisiana, where I went to a school that I was celebrating, I was at an all black school, you know.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

Yeah. And just to understand that the celebration was over when I. When I went into manhood was so jarring. And it changed my mind just about how I wanted to live my life and the things that I wanted to do and the stories that I wanted to tell. And the people that I wanted to tell the stories to. And I think that I've been blessed to be able to have the avenues to tell those stories. But that journey was interesting. And, you know, I spoke a little bit about Debbie Allen, but she's really the reason that I've clung to arts education, and that has really helped me to, like, navigate my path, because I didn't. Coming from Louisiana, it was either you, an athlete that did well, you work at the plant, and if you was a girl, you was becoming a nurse, and that's just what it was. It's industrial, and nobody's going to say, hi, I want to be a TV star.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Right.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

You know, like, shut up. You know, but that's what I said, and God saw fit, you know, for it to happen. But it's because I was able to navigate through LSU and then take whatever money and whatever thing I knew that Ms. Allen could help me know and go to New York and struggle with that. Yeah.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

New York in itself is a struggle. And then going to school and.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

Absolutely, absolutely. And being kicked out of school and having to go back and I went through all the things.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah, yeah, let's talk about that.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

Yeah.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

So a lot of people think it's just a smooth journey. They don't understand the ebbs and flows.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

Oh, it's. There's so much in this country when it comes to education. First off, the price is astronomical.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Ridiculous.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

And so when you decide that you're going to do something and then you can get scholarship money or fellowship, which is what I had, you have to follow rules. And some of the rules were like, you can't audition. But of course, I was like, I want to audition for things.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Oh, wow. So you couldn't audition while in school.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

They didn't want you to audition or work on other things with. You were in school.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Wow.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

And so I was doing a fellowship, and I lost it, and I lost the money and I couldn't pay anymore. And so I had to not do. I mean, I couldn't pay for it, so I had to stop going. So I didn't get kicked out. They just kicked out the money.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Right.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

And so, yeah, I. I had to figure it out. And I. I spent. I spent some nights on a train in New York.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Wow.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

Just trying to figure it out. I, I, and some of my family probably won't even know this because I was determined not to go home. I was spending. I mean, there's friends that I have in New York that I always have who we would get a dollar Slice of pizza and cut it in half. I've slept on trains, I've slept on sofas. I've done the things. And so I just couldn't do it anymore. And thank God that I had sense enough to move to Atlanta after all that, you know, because it helped me to get a foundation and get credits and just do the things. But New York was. New York made a man out of me. I always say that, listen, if you.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Can survive in New York, you can literally make it anywhere.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

That's what I hear.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah, that's the truth. You carry so much confidence and you're not a monolith and you boldly walk in every single space that God has created for you. Thank you. In finding that because you talked about how you weren't celebrated once you left your all black school and finding yourself and finding that confidence, what has been some of the biggest struggles that you face navigating this industry?

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

I think that the first thing about confidence is it hasn't always been there. Even if I pretended that it was there, there was something that I was determined to achieve and I didn't really know how I was going to achieve it, but I felt like if I at least pretended to believe in myself, that somebody, be that somebody would believe it. And so I would pretend a lot. If I can be honest, I didn't really believe that I could have all this until maybe 2018. And then my life changed right after that. Whenever I decided, whenever I believed for real. Because I think that we spend so much time trying to convince other people that we don't even do the work to make ourselves believe. And so belief, to me, now that I understand what belief is, to me it is understanding that whatever you desire, you deserve it. No matter what the odds are, no matter what has happened before you or what will happen after you, what you deserve is what you desire. And so then that came, the aplomb. And so the challenges that I have with the aplomb is people just like Brian is overconfident. Maybe, maybe Brian is arrogant. Maybe Brian, because I am someone who. And I've grown to be better about it. But in my youth, I found myself in spaces where I was the youngest person a lot. And I had a lot of opinions and I had a lot to say. And older people are just like, hey, you know, you don't know everything. And I thought I knew a lot, you know, And I've learned that I didn't know. But the challenges were. Continuing to be confident in the face of opposition, in the face of failure in the face of no's, which you know, you know the no's. And when you're black and trying to tell the stories that may not only speak to black people or trying to tell the black stories to the people who don't understand blackness or who don't want to understand blackness, that's challenging. And it's still a challenge. We'll leave here with it being a challenge because that's just what we've been born into. And it's a special challenge. It's one that is unique and rich with tradition and overcoming and so what makes us any different?

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Right? That's so true. You talked about 2018 was the year you actually started, started believing in yourself. And in 2019 you were cast.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

That's right.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

The number one show. Hit show. Nine seasons.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

Nine seasons.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Tyler Perry Sisters as Maurice Webb I remember sitting in the back of the room the day that you did your audition and I was like, that's Maurice.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

That's him.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yes. No, I knew it. I was like, that's him. And I just saw it. I want you to take us back to that day when you got the audition and you knew you were coming to Tyler Perry Studios from the moment you woke up. What was that day like?

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

The moment I woke up, I actually was in New Orleans that day because I was filming a film called Christmas Belles which was actually on BET now. I think they were just filming and trying to sell it then. And I was flown in because I had done a self tape for Sisters to audition for Calvin and for. It was Calvin and for Aaron. And then Maurice came to me after those two auditions and they were like, well, Maurice is recurring. And I was like, I want to do the men who gonna have a job. Like, I don't wanna do like God bless Maurice and whatever he got going on. I'm trying to be on a TV show.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Come on.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

You know. And so I actually got to Atlanta and I was living in Atlanta at the time and so I went and got in my car to drive to the audition and the car wouldn't start. I don't know if you remember the car that I was driving whenever we did season one.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

I remember that thing. It was like a shoestring or something.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

It was. I would call it Corollin Martin. That was the name of my car. And Corollin Martin was a Toyota Corolla that was actually gifted to me by Brittney Inge. Shout out to Brittney Inge. I gotta call her name. It was gifted to me. Her and her mom said, how much money you got?

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Wow.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

And I said, nothing. And they gifted me a car. And that car, you know, it had lived. She had lived her life. Carolyn Martin. Carolin Martin is non binary. And so Carolyn Martin had a shoestring tied to the hood. It went under the hole in the hood to the rest of the car, because the hood would just do whatever he wanted to do. And that day, it didn't want to start. And so I had to get a jump before I came. It was the battery. Got a jump. And then I drove to Tyler Perry Studios. And I asked God, I said, hey, God, my guy, I need you to get me there and back. And I'm good. And he got me there. And I thought I went in there with four. It was Maurice, Gary, Aaron, and Calvin. That's with the four characters. A lot of the guys were called back for a lot of characters.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

And I was sitting there learning. It was about 60 pages of stuff. Sitting there, going through it and seeing all these. You know, you go to a Tyler Perry audition, everybody was swollen up and buffing. I'm just like, hi, guys. You know, it's me from the theater. And so I went into the audition and Mr. Perry was in there. I didn't know that he would be there. And he's like, we have Maurice for him. I'm like, okay. And so he's like, can you read this? He gave me a new side that I had never seen before. Can you read this? And I'm like, yeah. And I cold read it.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

And that was it. And I did not think that I got the job. What do you know that when. I don't tell this story often enough, but I left out of that room. It was a big theater, y', all, and it was full of people, but you can't really see them. You could just see heads and shadows and there's this light on you. And I remember leaving there. And then right after I left, Mr. Perry left, you were like, oh, God. I said, I done drove him out of here. I thought that I'd ran him up out of there, but I guess I learned that he had saw what he needed to. Yes, and. And what a blessing that was because I did book Maurice, which was the recurring character, but after my audition, it changed and it wasn't recurring anymore. And I think that he went from seven episodes to 17.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Come on.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

And the rest is history. Here we are 200 episodes later, more than 200 episodes. It's wild.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

It is wild.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

And I'm Old.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

You are still young.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

Thanks.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Everybody. When you go out in the streets. Maurice. Maurice, Maurice. But who is the man behind Maurice? That people may not know, because some people cannot differentiate the character who Brian Jordan Jr. Is to Maurice Wells.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

Ah, that's good. Yeah. Maurice is such an escape from who I am.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

And I think that we have so many things in common. You know, obviously, like, humor is something that I. And then, you know, you know how I love to be funny. I love to laugh. But Brian is a person who has such a big heart for people.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

You do.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

And I just love to take care of people. It's my love language. I love to cook for people and do things for. I just love it. I love big events. I love sports. I love talking crap. I love spades. I love, you know, to work out. And like the last year, I really fallen in love with that.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yes.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

Which we know. Maurice don't love that. And Brian is someone who is. Who stands on the shoulders of a lot of black women who have shown me the importance of what a man can be to a woman in a friendship, as a brother. And I think that Maurice is kind of that too. But I know that. And I'll never stop talking about just how black women have helped me to be, build my career and, I mean, obviously gave me life. But in the absence of, like, a father figure and just other people around me who could be father figures even in my career, like black women have been a guiding light. When I talk about Debbie Allen, I'll continue to say her name because she just saw it in me to slap me upside my head, you know, and cursed me out enough so that I knew what I understood the values. And so now I'm probably harder than she is because it's that old school training that got me to the point where I am. But Brian is a lover of God and a lover of people and a love of the art.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yes, he is.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

And a lover of fine things and beautiful clothes, fine people and fine food, you know, Fine film.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah, fine, fine.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

Very fine.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

I love that.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

Whoa.

[Coca-Cola Announcer]

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[Brian Jordan Jr.]

All.

[Coca-Cola Announcer]

As always, it's classic HBCU energy. Nonstop action, the band is rocking and the crowd lit. Chants echoing, drums beating, everybody showing that school pride. Moments like this.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

Yeah.

[Coca-Cola Announcer]

They call for an ice cold Coca Cola. Crisp and refreshing. That's a game changer right there.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

Mmm.

[Coca-Cola Announcer]

Yeah, that taste always hit the right note. Just like the band at halftime. Passionate fans, school colors everywhere. And an ice cold Coca Cola. That's a winning combo. No matter the place, no matter the moment. Everybody knows fan work is thirsty work. So grab a Coca Cola and and keep that HBCU pride going.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Hello Hello, I'm Malcolm Gladwell, host of the podcast smart talks with IBM. I recently sat down with IBM's chairman and CEO Arvind Krishna, and I asked him, how can companies use AI to.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

Its fullest potential to create smarter business?

[Malcolm Gladwell]

My one advice to them? Pick areas you can scale. Don't pick the shiny little toys on the side.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

Mm.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

For example, if anybody has more than 10% of what they had for customer service 10 years ago, they're already five years behind. If anybody is not using AI to make their developers who write software 30% more productive today with the goal of being 70% more productive. Yeah. So we are not asking our clients to be the first experiment on it. We say you can leverage what we did. We are happy to bring out all our learnings, including what needs to change in the process. Because the biggest change is not technology is getting people to accept that there's a different way to do things. To listen to the full conversation, visit IBM.com smart talks.

[Pets Best Insurance Announcer]

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[Brian Jordan Jr.]

Who wouldn't?

[CarMax Announcer]

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[Brian Jordan Jr.]

Quickly?

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[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Toa Ina we all know that water is life.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

An average American household consumes over 300 gallons daily. 40% of Navajo families residing on a reservation the size of West Virginia struggle to survive on less than 10 gallons of water per day yearly. St. Bonaventure Indian Mission and school delivers over 1.5 million gallons of clean water to these families. You can help support St. Bonaventure's water.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Delivery program by going to stbonaventuremission.org after being thrust because you've been in the industry for a long time, but now you are well known, what are some of the ways that you had to adjust? Because I know people, we think we're ready, but then it's like, whoa, this is a lot, yo.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

No one can ever prepare you for that. To be in the public eye. And thrust is the correct word because, you know, I'm so glad we're having this conversation together. Covid happened at the beginning of our show.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

I talk about that all the time. Yeah.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

And we were tucked away during seasons one and two.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yes.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

And then we were thrown out into this open world without a mask, and that thing went crazy. And I dealt with security issues and, you know, I mean, people have come to my home, come in into my home. I've had to move and find, you know, safer places. I have to move throughout the world in a different way than I would normally move, you know, and that is one part of it. But also, you know, body image has been the biggest.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

I wanted to talk to you about that.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

The biggest. It's been the biggest challenge. It is the biggest challenge. I have, to be honest.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

Because I made a joke earlier about walking into a room of men that look a certain type of way in film there. Film and tv, especially, you know, with sisters in the land of, if I can be honest, black television, There is a conventional standard of beauty that I did not meet. And I didn't realize it. It just happened. And then it happened even more because I was on TV every week and then it was in person, and it was people who thought that they were being complimentary about how I looked on TV and how different I looked in person or how, you know, and then I started to struggle with feeling like a leading man. But not looking like one. And it's still a struggle. And I know that I'm speaking for a lot of people who may not be able to speak. Yeah. Who may not be able to speak because weight fluctuates. And I've. It's never been a thing for me being a big guy. And I just was a big guy. I just always had been a big guy. And in finding my way to success and being compared to people every day, seeing public opinion every day about comparison, and yes. Looking at yourself in every gallery shoot, every photo of. Shoot every picture, looking at yourself on camera and what angles working, I just. I had to develop a system for myself because I knew that I wanted to change. But I think that initially, probably the first three years of Sisters, my change was based in what other people looked like.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Wow.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

It was. I was comparing myself to people all the time and people who I loved and admired, and I. And it wasn't like I was. It was a negative thing. It was just like, I'm standing around the best friends that I have, my brothers, Cheeto and Deval, and they look great, and they have, like, abs. And I'm literally over here just, like, fighting for my life. And it was tough. It is tough. And so even now, as I navigate and obviously I've lost some weight since then. Thank you so much. It's such a journey, though, Chris. It is such a journey. And I think I'm finally finding my footing, which. It requires a lot of discipline.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Let's talk about that discipline. Because you. You're running now, working out. You've always been in the gym. Was it. Was it the food that was absolutely.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

Eat. I love to eat, and still today I do. But I think that I had to figure out what was more important. And I still love to eat, and I still do eat, but it's in a very different way.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

That's so good.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

It's in a very different way. And I found ways to enjoy the things that I need and not the things that I desire.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yes.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

And I also found cardio that I like.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yes.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

And which is running. And, like, looking at people and, you know, I live in a different city now, and running is like. The culture of running is different.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

It is in New York.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

And so I run. I've gotten up to about six and a half miles a day. What? Yep.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

I'm so proud of you.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

I just run blocks and, you know, I run and walk. I run and walk. I ain't gonna lie.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

But it's good.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

A little back and forth, but I am. And I'm getting those calories down and it helps and it feels good. And I lift. I lift heavy. And people not to do a fitness thing because, you know, anytime somebody lose weight, then they become Billy Blanks. But I. I lift heavy and it helps because you lose that weight and that skin start to do something different. And you know how I feel about skin.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah. Come on now.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

Pulling up. So I lift heavy and I run and I do. I cycle too. I switch it up because I get bored with things. I'm a creative. I get bored with things and I just really. I fast. I intermittent fast and I go into the last minute where I'm starving and then it makes the meal so good no matter what it is.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Oh, my goodness.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

Like, oh, man. God, this salad is so. God.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Tastes like a porterhouse.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

It tastes like a fried pork chop. Y' all ever had a fried pork chop sandwich?

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

I haven't had a pork chop since college.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

I know we think we better than, but we can get up under a pork chop sandwich. Listen, white bread.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Hey, listen, a little white bread. Come on now, tear up. A fried pork chop.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

Lovely. Those things are lovely. Come on. So silly.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

You are so silly. They are very lovely.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

I can't eat that anymore.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah, but I'm proud of you. I'm so proud of you because as your friend, like, I would see you working out and even it's the unspoken dialogue that we have where, like, I know this is something that you struggle with internally and I could see you trying to work towards it. So I'm just so proud of you that you found a way to work out and do it in a way that you love. Even when you walked in today, like, you just. You, Your glow is different and I can tell it's internal, not just external.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

Yeah, yeah. You gotta figure out I was working out from the. The wrong place and. And trying to accomplish something based on somebody else. And you just have to find your own body and find the best body that you have because you're just. We're born with everything that we have that we need. We really are. And so I just had to find. Cuz it was in here, it was up under here. It's the a. It's still a little more up in here. But, you know, it's still. I want to just drive the point home because I don't want to say it was a struggle. It is a struggle. And I'm finding something new every day and working through something new. And when I say find something new, sometimes it's finding something new that I feel I need to change, that I feel I need to work on. And now that I've lost the weight, now I need to do this now. This looks different now. This fits different now, you know, and it's a challenge. But I think that challenges are not something that will stop.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

No.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

I think that challenges make us stronger so that when new challenges come, we're able to attack them with more armor.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Absolutely. I think it comes with evolution. Every time we evolve is something else. And it's so refreshing to hear a man speak on that, because a lot of times you hear women talk about body dysmorphia and how we nitpick. I just talked about it Saturday at the event about how we just. We're our own worst critics, and we're picking at every little thing that people look at us and like, oh, my God, you look amazing. And then some people like, is she pregnant? You look fat. You know, but all those. But we look in the mirror, we're like, ah, if I could just. Just fix this or tweak that. So just to speak to men who may feel the same way, to let them know they're not alone in this. And also, we can be kinder to each other, you know, because we're all dealing with something.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

I mean, even hearing somebody and kinder to each other, like, not being mean, but also just speaking to every. I mean, every time I see you, I'm just like, jesus. Now I really mean that in a godly way. I'm like, wow, Crystal's here. Hey, ain't no use of lying. We here. You know what I'm saying? But that kindness to each other, it's just humanity.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

We need it.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

We need it right now in the world. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

No, for sure. We are nine seasons in. This is unheard of for many shows.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

Absolutely.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

You know, six. Five to six seasons is normally the size.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

Huge accomplishment.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Huge, Huge. Huge. What are some lessons that you learned on Sistas from either your castmates or from Tyler during this time? Because I know.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

You know, I'll start with. With I. I'll say both. I'll start with Tyler, because I don't think that Tyler Perry gets the credit that he deserves for more than what he gets. I think that people talk about the amount of capital that he's amassed and all those things, but nobody is talking about the master class in techniques that it requires for someone to amass that on their own.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Come on.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

And I've watched him take those things. Every single thing, because he doesn't have to do anything. He has done the things for 30 years. And I watch him with my own eyes stand in front of me and take on everything, every single piece of production and post production and pre production into account. And he knows how to do everything himself. And I will say that's probably the biggest lesson that I've gotten in all of this, because as I move into my own projects, like with Riley, that I've been developing for eight years.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Wow.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

I knew that I could not go into Riley the way that I wanted to until I can afford to own it outright.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Yes.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

And I've watched TP literally be able to not only own it, but own it. Like, owns it. And you can't tell him anything about it. You can't tell him anything about the audience, about the content, about the deals, about the financing, about the time, about anything, because he understands it. He created it. He has created a method. And so when we. I am what people will call a well studied actor. And so you hear about the Stanislavski methods and all the things. The Shakespearean. I am at pentameter and the August Wilsonian method. But Tyler Perry has a method. There is a method that he has developed when it comes to the development and the execution of television, film and theater. Yeah.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

I mean, come on.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

Hey, I don't know if there is a more famous playwright in the history of the world. Like, people know him for those plays and people forget that, too, because he hasn't done plays in a long time. But that's how I found Tyler Perry. That's how I. I mean, it's the first play I ever saw, you know, on a VHS at my grandmother's house, and people forget that. And I think that that is such an important landmark in time and to be aligned with that in such a historical way, like Sisters, is just so gratifying because I feel like I'm a little part of that history. And for my castmates, you know, my castmates have shown me so much about enterprise and finance and building wealth from whatever you have.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yes.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

Like you and like Deval. You know, I've learned so much from you guys. And you guys have been so giving and open with the advice and with the help, because you. This thing could go away fast. It changes fast, too. I mean, you can go from being on TV and then there's Covid, and then there's no auditions, and then there's no. And then there's a strike right after Covid, you know, and so I feel like I was able to live through those things, because I found family in my castmates, and I found advice and knowledge and wisdom and people that I could listen to and trust, that they had my best interests at heart. And so those are the two biggest things, like that business acumen and the way that he was able. Tyler was able to develop this conglomerate. And then the family that I found in you, in Devao and Cheeto, in KJ and Ebony and everybody, you know, that helped me to move through the world with an understanding that I wouldn't have otherwise.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

That is so beautiful. There's a level of. We talked about discipline, but also a level of humility that comes on taking different characters, and for me, taking on Fatima. I used to judge her all the time. Have there ever been moments where you're reading the script and you catch yourself judging Maurice all the time. All the time.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

Every time. Maurice is crazy. He is. He can say some awful things to people. He makes some crazy decisions, and he. He's. He's put himself in a lot of different places that don't make sense.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

Cyclical things. And that's such the opposite of me. Like, if I see a cycle, I'm like, I'm not doing that again.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Right.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

You know, but there is a thing about playing characters that I enjoy, and it is literally, you can do whatever you want. Like, and if you don't judge the character, you can play this thing so outright that it helps somebody who may not make the same kind of decisions that you make.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Right.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

And Maurice is someone who, before I played him, I did not know him. So it's easy to judge somebody else, you know, like. But then I'm like, you find after. I mean, after so much text in so many episodes, you find that there's a method to everybody's madness, and there is a reason why we all make decisions. And so I try my best not to judge it, but I'll be lying if. I mean, I'm reading scripts.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

I'm like, now, come on now, Mo.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

Mo, please. Just doing anything, saying anything. And I understand a lot of it is comedic, but I also understand that there are so many people and I've been able to meet so many people who identify with Maurice, and they are like, him. And I'm like, wow, thank God you didn't audition.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Right.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

Because you took my job. But, you know, I just didn't know anybody like that, like that before, and I was able to build him into an amalgamation of so many people that I knew. But, yeah, it's difficult to not judge characters in such A crazy world that, you know, sisters is. And. But the beauty of it is that it helps you to live the life of two people. When we've done this for so long, you're able to learn from even their mistakes in your own life. And it's kind of a cheat code.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

No, for sure. For sure. Now, I want to talk to you about Riley. You said you've been working on this for eight years. When you said that, it reminded me of Tyler's Jazz Band Blues. That was the first script he wrote, and he sat on it for years. Really?

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

I didn't know that.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yes. That was the very first. Yes. Screams. Yeah. It was his very first movie that he wrote. And it was. He brought it back up around 2015. Put it back down.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

Wow. That's. How.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

So was that similar for you when it came to Riley?

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

Yeah, because, I mean, Riley was not something. Riley is not something that I've made any money from. And so the biggest thing for me about Riley was I had to put it down when I had to work. You know, you have to focus on other things so that you can eat and live. And so I started Riley in 2007. 17. Whenever I looked around, and I was really, really in the Broadway world, in the theater world, and there were no roles where strong black men led unless they were playing strong black men who had lived before. And I was interested in telling a story about a black community that was proud and a black man at the center who wasn't tropey, who wasn't a drug dealer or a slave or a doo wop singer. I was very interested in telling the story of just a young black man who was going to school like I did, like many of us do. And it started off as a play because I wasn't writing music, which is so crazy that I've written all these songs now, but I wasn't writing music. And I was. Did a reading of it, and it was like missing something. I was like. An HBCU experience is one that is music. Like, you have to have music.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

You have to.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

And I started looking for writers, and I could not find one that I like. And, you know, Crystal, my standards are very high, and I just. I mean, I think I went through four and five musicians. I just could not find one that could stick.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Who does that sound like? My clothes made sound just like me. Yes.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

And. And so then I said, you know what? I'm gonna do it myself. Come on, I'm gonna write it myself.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

And then I wrote a song, and I would Call my friend. I'd sing it. And they was like, that's good. And I was like, it's all right. I'll write another one. And then I think that today, I think that for Riley the musical, I've written 54 songs.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

What?

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

And we've kept 32 in the musical, and there are 19 on the album. So. Yeah. And so I sat on it. I sat on it, and I would walk away and go back. And the name has changed six times, and the stories have changed because it's been eight years. And so you have to do. If it's a trending story, you can't talk about the trending story from 2018.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

That's so true.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

You have to keep moving the needle. And so it's changed so many times. But I'm so happy that I'm finally getting the chance to bring it to the world. And it's been so successful, surprisingly. I'm so surprised that people like it like this.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Why are you surprised?

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

I don't know. You just sit in your room and you crisscross your legs and you write songs, and then, you know, you just sitting in.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

And you just never know. I think that we all have dreams.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Absolutely.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

And who's to say that people will like them? You know, I think I'm a hard critic, and so I just assume everybody else will be one, too. And I'm just blessed and honored to be able to share with the world.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah, I love that. Now, you did not attend an hbcu, so where did you get the inspiration?

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

From the people around me, I will say, number one. But number two, when I was in high school, I talked about the black private school that I went to. It was the Southern University Laboratory High School. So it was on the campus of Southern University and A and M College, and the professors would teach us. We would be involved in all the activities. And it was such an escape from what I had experienced in middle school, because when I got there, it was wealthy African American people who cared so much about the way that this school was presented. I said the pride. And, you know, in an hbcu, everything is pulled and high. My name is Brian Jordan Jr. And I am a senior Mass. Com. You know, it's all of that, and I'd never seen it before. And there was an aplomb and a confidence about blackness, about academia, and about the customs, traditions and ideas of black colleges that was so impressive to me. And I know that the world doesn't know that. The world doesn't, especially the modern world. They don't see it. And what I continue to see is the influences of HBCU life in other things. In other things that weren't black.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Right.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

But nobody knows that these land grant and bell tower institutions. Institutions were founded because sharecropping was deemed unconstitutional. And they gave money to people to start colleges for agricultural and mechanical studies so that they can continue to be farmers. And what has come from that is Kamala Harris and Stacey Abrams and Debbie Allen and Taraji Henson and wonderful people who have gone to these huge colleges. Oprah, Oprah, Octavia, Spencer, Chadwick Boseman. I mean, we can go on and on. And they have really shown the vivid illustration of blackness, how you can give us something really, really small, and we'll turn it into a whole thing. And so I knew that if I gotten to this point and no one had told the story, it didn't matter if I went to an hbcu.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Right.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

It mattered that I went to upper bound programs at HBCUs, that I went to for football camps at HBCUs, that I Went to national youth sports programs at HBCUs, that helped to rear me and foster my gifts as a child. And even the communities. I mean, if you live in Atlanta, you know what time it is when it's spelled house Homecoming.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Come on.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

Everybody knows if you're from Tennessee, and even if you didn't, if you go to Middle Tennessee University, you know what Tennessee State is about.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

That's my parents.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

And you celebrate the homecoming there.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

So much fun. Homecoming.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

And it's just about what the black colleges mean to black academia, but also the black communities.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

It raises us all and it pulls us all up.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

I love that. You also directed and choreographed the Wiz at True Colors Theater.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

Yes.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

What did. Doing a classic like the Wiz, how did that help get you ready to do Riley?

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

Absolutely. It was way more instrumental than I even thought. I'm a strategic thinker. And so I knew that directing the Wiz would help to establish my name in a theatrical place that would help me to bring. Cause I've been playing in this, Riley. The rollout, the outfits, all the school stuff that y' all have seen. I've been planning this for, like, four years. I knew I just had to have a certain amount of money to do it. And when I directed the Wiz, first off, shout out to Kenny Leon, who is the founder and creator of True Colors Theater and has been a mentor of mine for a long time. Kenny, you know, and Jamil Jude, who's the artistic director there, gave Me the opportunity to direct the Wiz. And what I found in the Wiz is so many people hadn't seen theater before or they hadn't seen theater since they saw Madea Play.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Right.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

And they came to the show because they love Maurice. And we sold that show out. I think that I went and did press for the show, and within 72 hours, we sold out 29 performances of that show.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Wow.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

Quickly oversold. We sold the whole thing out.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

That's amazing.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

And it was a lot of people who were saying, this is my first play.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

What.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

And I feel like. And I. And I call it the Lemon Pepper Whiz, because I was strategic about making Oz, like, you know, Emerald City feel like Atlanta. And so the Tin man was at Cascade, and the lion was at the Marriott Marquis. And it was just a lot of things that I include. I mean, Q. Parker was the Tin Man. You know, I was strategic about what Atlanta needed to see in the Wiz.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Right.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

Because we have to make theater these days. Whenever, you know, digital is so in front of our face, and everything is so quick to get in. You want people to come and see live things that you don't have video of. You have to make it something that people would want to see. Yeah. And so that taught me that there is a huge market for black theater.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yes.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

If you bring it to the people who it's for.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

Which is another Tyler Perry lesson. I ain't gonna keep doing the Tyler Perry lessons, but serve the people the things that they. If you're creating it for the people. Serve it to the people.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yes.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

You know, and so I learned then that there was. There's so many stories that need to be told. And then now we're living in a time where last year was the biggest season on Broadway in the history.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yes.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

Of Broadway. And the largest grossing show was led by a black man.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

Othello, you know, and so shout out to Denzel Washington. Shout out to the people who are showing that black stories. And black IP is important, is marketable, is potent. And so the Wiz taught me that. It taught me that there is room for black theater even in mainstream, because they'll try to make you believe that it doesn't belong. But, yeah, the Wiz was great. It was a great experience.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

That's amazing. How did you.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

Whoa.

[Coca-Cola Announcer]

What a vibe we've got, y'.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

All.

[Coca-Cola Announcer]

As always, it's classic HBCU energy. Nonstop action. The band is rocking and the crowd lit. Chants echoing, drums beating. Everybody showing that school pride. Moments like this.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

Yeah.

[Coca-Cola Announcer]

They call for an ice cold Coca Cola. Crisp and refreshing. That's a game changer right there.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

Mmm.

[Coca-Cola Announcer]

Yeah, that taste always hit the right note. Just like the band at halftime. Passionate fans, school colors everywhere, and an ice cold Coca Cola. That's a winning combo. No matter the place, no matter the moment. Everybody knows fan work is thirsty work. So grab a Coca Cola and keep that HBCU pride going.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Hello. Hello, I'm Malcolm Gladwell, host of the podcast Smart Talks with IBM. I recently sat down with IBM's chairman and CEO Arvind Krishna, and I asked him, how can companies use AI to its fullest potential to create smarter business? My one advice to them Pick areas you can scale. Don't pick the shiny little toys on the side. For example, if anybody has more than 10% of what they had for customer service 10 years ago, they're already five years behind. If anybody is not using AI to make their developers who write software 30% more productive today with the goal of being 70% more productive. Yeah.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

Wow.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

So we are not asking our clients to be the first experiment on it. We say you can leverage what we did. We are happy to bring out all our learnings, including what needs to change in the process. Because the biggest change is not technology. It's getting people to accept that there's a different way to do things. To listen to the full conversation, visit IBM.com smarttalks.

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[Brian Jordan Jr.]

Pets age 0 to 10 want to buy your way?

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Of course you do. That's why carmax offers an experience designed just for you. Want to start online, then visit the lot, then go back online?

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

Sure.

[CarMax Announcer]

Want to talk to a real person or chat online? Either works. Want to take your time and compare all the makes models? No problem. Then make up some time by filling out the paperwork at home and schedule. Express pickup or home delivery Done. When it comes to how you buy, CarMax puts you in the driver's seat. Want to drive? Carmax delivery restrictions apply. See carmax.com for details. You heard it before? Many times. Water is life. But do you know that almost half of the homes on the Navajo reservation do not have clean running water? With your support, Saint Bonaventure Indian Mission and school is ready to give water to Navajo families. So we invite you to help provide this precious gift of life to those in need. Contrary to many average Americans, Navajo families survive on just 10 gallons of water per day. You can help support St. Bonaventure's water delivery program by going to St. Bonaventure.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Mission.org balance the creative and the business side of bringing Raleigh to fruition. Because I know that's a lot, especially doing it independently.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

Well, the balance is you may want a lot more than what you can afford, and so you have to make those decisions. And the business of being on sistas and learning from people around me, learning from people who had taken their finances and independently placed their money in their own things, you know, it helped me to understand the balance of things and what could be more profitable and what is long game and what you need to pull back on. Because. Because me, I'm just like a do it big. I want all the things. I want all the artists. I want to, you know, I want 65 dancers in a 47 piece orchestra. And I'm like, hey, brother, pull it on back. You know. And so I learned a lot of lessons. I did a lot of scaling back on what I dreamed and putting people in the right places so that they can reach the right people and understanding how to merge social and digital with the live theater aspect and just finding the balance. Because, you know, if it was up to me, honey, it would. I mean, the social thing I struggle. Crystal is. Is the goat. I struggle with the social and the digital stuff. But it. This really pulled me out. And I was very intentional about doing that because I know that's the way to get to the people.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Absolutely.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

And I wasn't gonna waste my money.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Mm. Come on.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

Okay. Okay. On the things. And so I had to figure out what would be long lasting, what would reach the people. And what would get me on? Keep it Positive, sweetie. So it worked.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

You are so silly. I love that. It's so funny because I'm going on a live show tour for Keep it Positive, sweetie. And like you, I like all the things I want. The LED screen, please. The live show. Pyro, everything. I want to come from the roof.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

That's exactly right.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

All the things.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

Why not?

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

And they're like, okay, Crystal, if we do this, you're not going to make any money.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

That's right.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Like do. So do you want to make. Leave home with money or do you. I mean, leave the show. Going home with some money, or do you want to put it all in the show?

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

So give me the money. A little bit of money. Yeah.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

You know, let's put a little into it.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

We still have a. I mean, the gowns. I can't wait to see the gowns.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Nice gowns.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

Yikes. Yikes. Archive.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Listen.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

Pre.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Museum.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

Yeah. All the things the Met. That's it. Please.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

No, but I totally. I. I get it. I get it. You've called Riley a story that's both personal and cultural. In your own words, what does Riley represent to you?

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

I think that if I had to say it in a short amount of words, I think that Riley represents what it looks like when black people decide not to struggle anymore, My Lord. What it looks like when black people decide to not wait on the celebration of others. And what it looks like when black people decide that there is wealth and real estate in our own selves. And that's what Riley is. I mean, Riley is a story about a black football player who went to a white high school, but he decides to honor his mother's life by going to the black college. And he is kind of a fish out of water, but he gets there and he realizes that that's where he belongs. And there is something that was just ancestral about it. And it's a celebration of the black college. It's not filled with scandal and filled with the things that are baity to people. It is filled with why people pile up on Southwest flights to come to Atlanta on the weekend to go to a spell house homecoming and just be piled up in traffic. And it is the reason. It. It gives you a level of importance that is not something that you can buy. We're born into that importance.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yes.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

We're born into that ancestral, like, landmark soil.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yes.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

That is just who we are. And I feel like there has not been an adequate adaptation or storytelling of that since. And this is no shade to anything that has come after. But I feel like when we look at things that have inspired me with Riley, it's a different world.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Oh, my gosh, it's school days.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

Those things that really had that close connection to the celebration of these colleges and institutions. And so, yeah, that's what Riley is. It's a celebration of blackness and. And independence of blackness and what it looks like to learn and to be intelligent and to teach, you know? Yeah. Yeah.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

I love that. If there's any advice that you could give to young artists who are trying to just navigate this industry, who are trying to, like you, create their own content, what is the advice that you would give them?

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

We are all dreamers. And I think that I had a crazy dream last night. And I'm gonna get to the point with this, but I had a crazy dream last night, and it just didn't make any sense. Most dreams don't make any sense.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Right. Sometimes, like, what was that about?

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

They don't. And even when you wake up and you tell your mom, who is a nurse and who's been struggling to take care of four kids her whole life, that I'm going to be a movie and a TV star, that dream to your mama sounds crazy. Yeah, it's because it is. There's such a small amount of people who can do it, but there are people who can do it. And so when you dream crazy and you have these big dreams, you have to do the same amount of work that the dream is. So if the dream is insane, do an insane amount of work to dream. Dreams don't make sense. So you have to do a senseless amount of work. That means waking up and going to the gym. If you don't want to, that means eating a certain way. If you don't want to, that means putting together looks. If you can't afford a stylist or getting a stylist if you need it, it means going to every class that you can go to, singing every song that you can sing, training in dance, training in theater, reading, Going to people and helping them, getting help with tape. It means doing the impossible. These dreams are impossible. There's a song that says, dream the impossible dream, but nobody talks about the impossible work.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Boy, don't make me shout up in here.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

Nobody talks about the impossible working. So I would encourage people, if you. You want to accomplish the dream, accomplish the work. It has to match.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yes.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

And so you see people who you love on tv, like Fatima, and then you also see Fatima on brand campaigns on this podcast, on film on doing everything. She's our fashion goat. Like, she is doing all the things because her dream is impossible and she's doing the impossible amount of work. So that's what I would encourage. Just work. Do the work. And if you're tired, go to sleep and wake up and work again. You can't outwork. You cannot. Talent can never outwork. Ethic. When you have that work ethic, that's what's going to take you through.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yes.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

Work, work, work.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

I love that. Oh, that's so. That is so good. I wanted to ask you, I don't know if we've ever talked about this, but with all the work, how do you ground yourself when it gets too heavy?

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

I struggle with that.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Really?

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

Yeah. Because I think that what has happened is. And this is personal. I have for so long been so laser focused on the work that a lot of my life has kind of taken a backseat. Like, I'm not married. I don't have kids. I don't, you know? And so much of that personal stuff I found to be less significant because I was working. And so I'm in the point now where I'm getting a little bit older and it's looking a little lonely. Stand around in your house and it's like, oh, everybody, all right. You know, you can't find nobody sit at the breakfast table, you know? But I, I there, I found I find ground in, like, solace and just neutrality in other human, like, friends. And even a phone conversation, a FaceTime. You call me every now and then, and we'd be on their phone. We'd go for two hours. You're like, oh, Lord, I gotta go. Do you know? It's just how it is. But that helps to ground me. Just talking to other people, being with other people. And I feel like a lot of my life is work. Even when I'm enjoying it, I can get grounded in my own things. Especially if I'm auditioning for something or learning a script or filming on something else. It helps me to just go into something that I care about, that I love that I developed like a child, like Riley. But I find that in family and in food, I like to cook.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Oh, baby. When I tell y' all he can.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

Cook, I, I, I.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Why'd you move to New York? You too far.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

I know. You gotta just. You be up there all the time.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah, I need to slide there. Please cook for me.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

Please, please. She can also cook.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

We can cook.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

We're actually twins.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

No, literally, everything you're saying, I'm like, That's me.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

We like the same people. We like the same person. We're both air signs anyway. I find that in just the right people. And I also find it in just understanding when to leave things, when to stop talking to certain people, when to say no. That's a whole nother podcast episode. When to say no.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

But I have been able to build a nucleus inside of myself that no matter what is going on around me, I know where to go when I need stillness, when I need peace. And that, that has come with therapy, that has come with age, and it's also come with just the. The knowledge of just being around people who I've seen do the same thing. And God, of course, yes. You know, understanding that, the possibility, it's just. And not to preach, Preach. But people, there's so much to be said about different religions or, you know, modern day will make you feel like, you know, subscribing to any type of organized religion is something that is less than smart or less than scientific. But I think that in my life, without a doubt, I know that none of this would be possible without God. And I know it. And so it ain't even up for discussion for me. And so God and the way that I pray in the way that I manifest has been just a beautiful, beautiful thing. Because there is proof. Yes, there is proof. Like, even when you get in a situation where you feel like this is the worst thing that could ever possibly happen, how many times have you been in that worst thing that it happens and then it gets figured out. And so I think that I always say it, say it to myself, but I say it to other people too. How many times does God have to show you until you're able to say, you know what?

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

You got it?

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

Please.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yes.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

Because we love to try to figure it out ourselves.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

We do. We can't fit digging a deeper hole.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

I mean, God, go sit down somewhere really, you know, but yeah, I. I find, I find my center in God. I find it in, in art, I find it in food, I find it in fashion. You know, I love a little piece of clothes. Listen, I need to stop.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Garment need to stop.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

I gotta stop.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Let's put ourselves. Now I'm putting myself in it.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

Please.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Maybe a. Ah. I'm trying to think what else I got coming up. Okay. Unless it's like for work, a shopping fast until the holidays, like till that's tomorrow. Never mind.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

It is currently the holidays.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

It's the holidays.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

I. I can do a shopping fast until like, like until the new year.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Okay. Till the new year.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

60 days.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah. For ourselves. But if it's shopping, like for Christmas for family, that doesn't count.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

I'm gonna put them in it too. Hey, guys, you saw it here first. I'm going fast. I don't know when this airs, but today is. Is. What is it October 24th. We're gonna say 24th. Just because of the stuff that I did. Five people before. Supposed date a check. This is it, guys. And so I'm on. It's Crystal's fault. I'm on a fast. Merry Christmas to you all.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Jesus is the reason for the season.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

Yes, he. Oh, yes, he is.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Oh, yes, he is. Yeah.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

All that. All of that. Yeah. Cancel Christmas, guys. It's about God.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Amen. I love you, Brian.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

I love you more.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

No, seriously, I'm so proud of you.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

Thank you for being here.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

I have watched you grow. I'm not gonna cry today. I've watched you grow and mature over the years. And just the artist that you are, the man that you are, the friend that you are, I couldn't ask for a better friend. And I'm just. I'm happy to have you and share my platform with you, just to share you with the world even more because I don't think you do this enough to like, actually let people in. So thank you for allowing me to interview you and just have that conversation so that they can know you more because you are truly an incredible human. I just love you.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

Thank you for this comfortable and safe space.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Yeah, no, seriously, I love it. So tell the people where we can find you. You got merch? You are. Are you still on the college tour?

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

I just wrapped the college tour.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

That was amazing too.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, just wrapped the college tour, but there will be merch available. [e-mail] we're also working on a collaboration line that I can't speak to now, but it's going to be crazy. I can't wait for you to show you this. I can't wait to show you this stuff. And of course Instagram, Twitter, TikTok, ryanjordanjr, and also rileythemixtape. Go stream it everywhere that you stream. It's out there. It did really great numbers in the first week. Crazy. And so I'm so, so blessed. Thank you so much, Chris.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

You are welcome. That was such an inspiring conversation with Brian and a reminder that when you trust your calling, you can create something bigger than yourself. Thank you for tuning in to another episode of the Keep it Positive, Sweetie show. Don't forget to subscribe, leave a review and share this with someone who could use a little positivity. Until next time I will see you guys and make sure you keep it positive, sweetie.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

What a matchup we got, y'. All. This is that classic HBCU vibe. Non stop action. The band is rocking and the crowd lit. Chance echo drum beating.

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Everybody showing that school pride game like this.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

Yeah, it calls for an ice cold Coca Cola.

[CarMax Announcer]

Ah, crisp and refreshing.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

That's a game changer right there. Yeah, that taste always hits the right note. Just like the band at halftime. And just like that, we're back at it. Passionate fans, school colors everywhere and in ice cold Coca Cola.

[CarMax Announcer]

That's a winning combo.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

No matter the sport, no matter the yard. Every everybody knows fan work is thirsty work. So grab a Coca Cola and keep that HBCU pride going. Amazon five Star Theater presents Real customer reviews performed by Ed Helms. Tonight's review Tactical Jacket I was living a simple life. Didn't get out much. Then I bought this jacket and everything changed. Women came to flocking to me from lands domestic and foreign. On the 245 day sailboat voyage home, I was attacked by a shark. I knew it was the jacket he was after, giving up the jacket in exchange for my life.

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[Brian Jordan Jr.]

Perfect gift this holiday on Amazon. Janice Torres here and I'm Austin Hankwitz. We host the podcast Mind the Business Small Business Success Stories produced by Ruby Studio in partnership with Intuit QuickBooks.

[Pets Best Insurance Announcer]

We're back for season four to talk to some incredible small business owners.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

The big thing about working at tech is that it's ever evolving, ever changing. Everyone's a rookie. That's how fast the industry is changing.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

So what I'm really excited about is.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

To be part of that change. So listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts, you know what a girl's best friend is not diamonds her lawyers.

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From executive producer Ryan Murphy comes a.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

Fiery new legal drama.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

It's our own boutique women representing women.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

You can't afford to miss.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Make it rain.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

Showtime, ladies.

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Stand up straight and breeze into that.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

Room like a storm no one saw coming. Hulu Original Series All's Fair now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney for bundle subscribers terms apply.

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How do I do it all during the holidays?

[Chris Renee Hazlett]

Four words.

[Pets Best Insurance Announcer]

Shipt. Same day delivery. With Shipt, I can order groceries from Albertsons, decor from Michaels, even gifts for my furry friend from petsmart. Plus my personal shopper brings everything I need that same day. That makes it a breeze to decorate, get my shopping done, and make time.

[Brian Jordan Jr.]

For all the holiday parties.

[Pets Best Insurance Announcer]

Do it all this holiday season with Shipt. Download the app or visit shipt.com that's s h ipt.com.