The Gift of Rejection with Nona Jones

Summary

Podcast Summary: "The Gift of Rejection with Nona Jones"

Podcast: Keep It Positive, Sweetie
Host: Crystal Renee Hayslett
Guest: Nona Jones
Date: May 12, 2024
Episode Theme:
A deeply honest and faith-rooted exploration of trauma, rejection, resilience, healing, and how adverse experiences—especially rejection—can serve as an unexpected gift. Through Nona Jones' powerful testimony, listeners are guided through conversations on overcoming abuse, mother wounds, success, forgiveness, and using one’s pain for spiritual and personal growth.

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1. Nona’s Story: Early Trauma and the Path to Faith

Timestamps: [02:27]–[07:11]

• Background:
  Nona shares her challenging upbringing: Her mother didn’t want children, and Nona’s father died of cancer when she was not yet two. Her mother, grieving and seeking support from new partners, ended up with a man who became Nona’s abuser.
• Childhood Abuse & Isolation:
  At age 5, while her mother was away, Nona was sexually assaulted by her mother’s boyfriend. She was threatened into silence, became withdrawn yet disruptive at school, and was labeled a “problem child.”
• Attempts at Survival:
  Nona courageously revealed the abuse; her mother had the boyfriend arrested but shockingly took him back after his release, resuming the cycle of abuse ([05:19]).
• Suicide Attempts and Discovering Church:
  At ages 9 and 11, Nona attempted suicide, feeling unloved and invisible. Invited to church by a classmate, she encountered a loving community, and the first sermon she ever heard was profoundly impactful:

  “God is a father to the fatherless.” – Nona Jones, [06:26]
  This revelation put her on a path of faith, but abuse at home persisted.

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2. The Lingering Wounds: Relationships, Success, and Seeking Validation

Timestamps: [07:48]–[14:12]

• Trauma Bleeding into Life:
  Nona describes how early wounds showed up as hypersensitivity to criticism, defensiveness, and an insatiable drive for external validation:

  “I was successful externally, but the ability to enjoy it was missing. There was this emptiness, this lack of fulfillment because of the trauma and pain of my past.” – Nona Jones, [10:01]

• On Forgiveness and Boundaries:
  Nona details her complex relationship with her mother. She’s forgiven her, but maintains distance due to the absence of repentance and continued lack of safety:

  “Forgiveness doesn’t necessarily mean access.” – Nona Jones, [14:48]
  “In the absence of repentance, she is not safe. Because an unrepentant person will simply re-injure you.” – Nona Jones, [13:49]

• Mother Still with Abuser:
  Despite everything, her mother stayed with the abuser for decades, only separating when he left her ([15:10]–[15:31]).

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3. The Mother Wound and Emotional Healing

Timestamps: [16:47]–[24:16]

• Defining ‘Mother Wound’:
  Both Crystal and Nona discuss the deep, often unspoken pain caused by maternal neglect or harm. Nona candidly explains the lasting impact:

  “Guilt is the idea that I made a mistake. Shame is the idea that I am a mistake.” – Nona Jones, [16:47]

• Therapy and Soul Care:
  Nona shares a transformative therapy experience that helped her revisit her most painful childhood memory and realize where her personality ‘split’ for self-preservation ([23:00]).

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4. On Faith, Ministry, and Embracing Purpose

Timestamps: [25:38]–[29:13]

• Call to Ministry:
  Nona describes her calling into ministry, initially thinking she’d only teach occasionally, but God led her into leadership, preaching, and opening doors far beyond her expectations.
• Merging Faith and Marketplace:
  Nona balances executive leadership in the business and tech world with her faith:

  “God actually had me step down from my role because he said, ‘I have called you to be a light in dark places.’” – Nona Jones, [28:13]

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5. Books & Insights on Success and Comparison

Timestamps: [30:09]–[44:36]

• Book #1: Success from the Inside Out
  Focuses on the inner healing required to experience “good success.”

  “There is nothing you can accumulate around you that will fill a deficit within you.” – Nona Jones, [33:56]

• Book #2: Killing Comparison
  Born out of her struggle with insecurity and measuring her worth against others, especially via social media:

  “We compare our reality to other people’s fiction.” – Nona Jones, [34:26]

• Book #3: From Social Media to Ministry
  Practical guide for digital outreach in faith communities.

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6. Social Media, Vulnerability, and the Heart’s Posture

Timestamps: [45:47]–[48:13]

• On Sharing Authentically:
  Crystal discusses the tension between privacy and inspiration on social media; Nona urges intentionality and a focus on where the “glory” goes.

  “When I’m posting, where is the glory going?… Is it going to God?” – Nona Jones, [46:38]

• Dealing with Criticism and Opinions:
  Social media is not the source of insecurity, just an amplifier; having a heart to inspire is key.

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7. Navigating Faith in Public and Career Spaces

Timestamps: [48:13]–[55:49]

• Struggles with Public Persona and Faith:
  Crystal expresses concerns about being an actor and the tension between her roles and her identity as a Christian. Nona advises leaning into conviction and discernment:

  “When I have the question, that is the answer.” – Nona Jones, [49:06]

• The Platform as Ministry:
  Discussion of how God uses public platforms for His purposes, and the importance of intentional stewardship so as not to be “drawn into darkness,” but to remain light ([52:04]).

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8. Judgment, Truth, and Love in Interfaith Relationships

Timestamps: [59:59]–[69:31]

• On Interfaith Relationships:
  Crystal shares personal experience dating a Muslim man and questions about judging other beliefs. Nona responds:

  “Our job is to be a witness for Jesus… it’s not my responsibility to convince someone… simply to be a reflection.” – Nona Jones, [61:53]

• On Speaking Truth with Love:
  The balance between standing for biblical truth vs. judgmentalism:

  “In the absence of love, truth is condemnation. But when we add love to truth, it’s conviction.” – Nona Jones, [68:52]

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9. The Power of Community

Timestamps: [69:55]–[71:05]

• Community as Lifeline:
  Nona credits a loving church and community for helping her survive ongoing abuse:

  “God said it is not good for man to be alone… That was the lifeline for me.” – Nona Jones, [70:52]

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10. Listener Letters & Practical Guidance

Timestamps: [71:10]–[74:54]

• Finding Joy & Setting Boundaries:
  In response to a listener struggling with joy and constantly giving to others, Nona encourages self-examination around the need to be needed and the importance of protecting one’s emotional well-being:

  “If I don’t do this, then I’m irrelevant. We have to see the worth we have, regardless of whether people need us or not.” – Nona Jones, [73:24]

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11. Growth, Surrender, and Final Takeaways

Timestamps: [74:54]–End

• Nona’s Own Growth:
  She shares how, as her ministry grows, she and her husband intentionally check in about their marriage to resist spiritual attacks, and she’s learning the power of surrender.

  “As soon as I said yes [to God’s plan], I had peace.” – Nona Jones, [77:30]

• Final Uplifting Notes:
  • Crystal: “Keep that discernment, sweetie.”
  • Nona: “Keep it fun, sweetie. We can be too serious sometimes. Enjoy life.” – [78:18]
• Final Prayer:
  Nona closes with a prayer for listeners, the podcast team, and all who may be wrestling with discouragement, asking God for encouragement and wisdom ([79:24]).

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• “Forgiveness doesn’t necessarily mean access.” – Nona Jones, [14:48]
• “We compare our reality to other people’s fiction.” – Nona Jones, [34:26]
• “There is nothing you can accumulate around you that will fill a deficit within you.” – Nona Jones, [33:56]
• “Our job is to be a witness for Jesus… not my responsibility to convince someone.” – Nona Jones, [61:52]
• “In the absence of love, truth is condemnation. But when we add love to truth, it’s conviction.” – Nona Jones, [68:52]
• “The question is the answer.” – Nona Jones, [49:06]

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Episode Structure & Key Segments

• [00:00]–[06:41] Trigger warning, introductions, and Nona’s childhood story
• [07:11]–[14:52] Healing, forgiveness, trauma’s impact
• [16:47]–[24:16] Mother wound, therapy, and emotional aftermath
• [25:38]–[29:13] Ministry and marketplace synergy
• [30:09]–[44:36] Book discussions: success, comparison, and authenticity
• [45:47]–[48:13] Social media, vulnerability, and intent
• [48:13]–[55:49] Navigating faith with career in the spotlight
• [59:59]–[69:31] Interfaith, judgment, loving witness
• [69:55]–[71:05] Importance of community for survival and healing
• [71:10]–[74:54] Listener letter and practical advice
• [74:54]–end Growth, surrender, final encouragement, and prayer

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Overall Tone: Honest, spirit-filled, compassionate, and empowering—a mix of raw vulnerability and faith-driven encouragement aimed at equipping listeners to heal, grow, and live purposefully, no matter what rejection or pain they’ve known.

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For support on sexual abuse: National Sexual Assault Hotline: [phone]

Transcript

[Host/Moderator]

Trigger Warning.

[Nona Jones]

This episode discusses sexual abuse.

[Host/Moderator]

Viewer discretion is advised. If you or someone you know is.

[Nona Jones]

Experiencing sexual abuse, please call the National Sexual assault hotline at 1-800-656-4673.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

Hello, and welcome to this episode of Keep It Positive, Sweetie. I'm Krystal Renee Hayslett, and today I have with me none other than Nona Jones. Nona.

[Nona Jones]

Hey, girl.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

I'm so excited to have you.

[Nona Jones]

I'm so excited to have you, seriously.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

Oh, my gosh. The first time I ever saw you was at Change Church last year. You preached, and I was like, man, this woman is powerful. Just to hear a snippet of your story, I was just like, oh, my goodness. So when they told me we were having you on, I was like, oh, my gosh. I'm so excited. Your energy is just lovely.

[Nona Jones]

I'm just glad to be here. And the fact that we have so much in common, girl. Trying to get these natural lashes together.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

Get it together.

[Nona Jones]

Yes.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Yes.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

I love it. I love it. I like to start with a quote or a song. And when I think of you, I think of the Scripture. 2nd Corinthians 12, 9. My grace is sufficient for thee, for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly. Therefore, I will rather glory in my infirmities that the power of Christ may rest upon me. And we'll get to why I think of you when I read this scripture later on, but I receive that. Yes. So let's talk about Nona. Nona, you are a rare combination of preacher, business executive, author, and entrepreneur. You serve as chief content and partnerships officer of youversion, which I wake up to every morning. That's crazy to know that you're behind that. I was like, this is so cool.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Yes.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

Leading a global team. And you have served as the head of global faith partnerships at Meadow, and you serve on the boards of Christianity Today magazine. Glu. Did I pronounce that right?

[Nona Jones]

That's right.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

Yes. A tech company that is building a first of its kind platform to connect the. The entire ecosystem. Serving and building the body of Christ. Wow. That is amazing.

[Nona Jones]

God is good.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

He is so good. So just tell me a little bit about young Nona. Like, where did you come from? We want to know all the things.

[Nona Jones]

You know. It's funny when you gave that scripture at the beginning about God's strength being made perfect in weakness. Like, I think people walk into the successful chapter that your life is on, and they just assume that's the whole story. So looking at me now, it's like, oh, she must have Had a great upbringing. All this stuff. Well, I was born to a mom who didn't even want to have kids. And she and my father had been married for, like, 13 years when she got pregnant with me. And he was so excited because he wanted to be a dad, but she was angry. And to make matters worse, halfway through her pregnancy, she started to. He started to have some stomach pain and went to the doctor just to have it diagnosed. And he ended up being diagnosed with terminal stomach cancer. And so he fought as hard as he could. He lived until about two months shy of my second birthday. And after he died, my mom moved us across the country. She was chasing a guy who said he would take care of her, but that relationship fell apart after she moved. And so I remember at an early age, there was, like, a string of men that came in and out of her life and my life. And then she settled on a guy who became her living boyfriend. And I did not like him from the beginning. Like, I just. There was something about him that scared me. Yeah, Kids know. And that's why every time I even share my story, I always say, look, moms, I don't care how lonely you are. If your children are not comfortable with somebody, pay attention to that.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Yes.

[Nona Jones]

And so I told my mom. I was like, I don't like him. But she was like, just give him a chance. He'll grow on you. Well, fast forward, I think, a few months. Her sister passed away, and so she had to go back up north to the funeral. And I begged her to take me with her.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Yeah.

[Nona Jones]

Not only did I want to be with her, but I just didn't want to be with him.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Yeah.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

How were you then?

[Nona Jones]

I was about 5, and, yeah, so I was young. But I remember that moment so vividly as she was packing her suitcase. There are certain moments that are just, like, etched in your memory. And I remember that one. And the first night that she was gone, he assaulted me. The very first night, he assaulted me. And after it was over, he said, you better not tell your mom, because she'll get rid of you. And so not only was I physically wounded, but now I'm also mentally wounded because I'm thinking, well, I can't tell my mom because she'll get rid of me. So she came back, and I was like a different child, I would say. Like, I was very much so quiet, but when I went to school, I would kind of act out. And so I got labeled as disruptive. I was called a problem child. I had all these labels put on me. And I would get in trouble constantly. He would repeatedly abuse me. And I worked up the courage over the course of a couple years to tell her what was happening. And she had him arrested. And I thought that was it. I was like, all right, he's arrested, we're moving on, it's over. But on the day of his release from jail, she took me with her to pick him up and brought him back home. And what? Yeah. And the abuse resumed.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

Oh, my.

[Nona Jones]

And I. I think at that point I realized that my voice didn't matter. And so I didn't tell her anymore. And then she became physically abusive and verbally abusive. So there was just all this craziness happening. And at the age of nine, I tried to take my life. And mind you, we were not a church going family. I didn't know anything about heaven, God, Jesus, the Bible, church, none of that. But I just figured that whatever was on the other side of death was better than what I was experiencing. And so it was unsuccessful. Of course, the abuse continued. At the age of 11, I tried again and that was unsuccessful. But after that second suicide attempt in the sixth grade, a classmate invited me to this thing called church, and she just invited me as her guest.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Wow.

[Nona Jones]

And I will never forget, my home life was so painful and dysfunctional. But when I walked into that church, people were smiling and welcoming. And the very first sermon I ever heard, the pastor said, God is a father to the fatherless. And I remember when I heard that, I was like, well, I don't have my father.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Yeah.

[Nona Jones]

And if God is a father to the fatherless, well, who is God?

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

Wow.

[Nona Jones]

I'm 11 years old. Like, I wonder who God is.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Yes.

[Nona Jones]

And that put me on the path to learning more about God. Reading the Bible on my own. I was like 11, reading the Bible for myself.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

Wow.

[Nona Jones]

Like praying and just seeking the face of God. Became a Christian at the age of 12, and the abuse did not stop.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Stop.

[Nona Jones]

But I think what, what kind of changed my life was that. The knowledge of who God was and the fact that he loved me. That I was not a mistake. Even though my mother said she wished she never had me. I was not a mistake. I had a purpose. I had a future. I had a hope. That really was the kind of foundation that changed my life. Wow.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

My goodness. I could not imagine at that age going through that. You hear so many stories of young women that are just getting to this age sometimes to even open up and say it, that what happened to them. And a lot of times, like when we were growing up. We wonder why our parents wouldn't let us go stay over so and so's house.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Yeah.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

She knew, like, and she was trying to protect us from that. In that now as an adult, you're like, you start coming, getting out to get out of your mom's home. How did that, what happened at home, also, like, flow into your relationships.

[Nona Jones]

So that is the million dollar question. Because what I did not know then, that I do know now, is that situation wounded me deeply. And I, you know, now that I've. I've been in, like, you know, professional spaces and I've been in leadership roles, I can see people show up. They're either very aggressive, hyper ambitious, really sensitive to criticism. And there was a point when I would look at those things and be like, oh, something's wrong with them. But I. I realize now it's like, no, something happened to them.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Yes.

[Nona Jones]

Because when you. When you, for whatever reason, show up wounded, the things that people say, they end up injuring you. And that's the difference. Like, there are things that can wound you and there are things that can injure you. Right. But when you show up in a space wounded, when somebody speaks against you, or maybe you don't get the promotion, and it's like a super superficial thing.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

Yeah.

[Nona Jones]

It can actually injure you. And so for me, I would show up in relationships with people. I was, like, defensive. You know, I could not take criticism because hearing my mother say she never wanted to have me, that she would call me things like fat, stupid, all these things, I internalized it. So when somebody would say something stupid, super benign, like, oh, you know, your PowerPoint presentation was off a little bit.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Yeah.

[Nona Jones]

That would injure me. I think about even in my marriage, like, we'll celebrate 20 years in June, which is awesome. But there were seasons in my marriage where my husband would give me feedback, and I couldn't take it. I couldn't handle it because I. It was almost like I would hear her voice.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Yes.

[Nona Jones]

In what he was saying, you know, and so that. That would create a lot of challenges. But I thank God for victory. I thank God victory is possible.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Yes.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

That's so true. In that moment, during that time when you were even with your husband, was there a moment where you said, I need to seek help and talk to someone? I know a lot of people. I've heard people say, I got Jesus. I don't need therapy.

[Nona Jones]

Oh, no, no, no, honey. No. Therapy is a gift that God has given to us because it is a tool that God works through. It's Just like, you know, if we have a cancer diagnosis. Right. It's like chemotherapy is a gift.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Yes, it is.

[Nona Jones]

Right. It's like therapy helps our heart, it helps our mind, it helps our emotions. But, yeah, it took a while, though. It took a while for me to seek therapy because I believe I was functional, like, you know, and high functioning. I'm talking about, I've been an executive since the age of 23, so for 17 years, like operating at a high level. But there would be this, like this, this emptiness, this lack of fulfillment where I was successful externally, but the ability to actually enjoy it was missing because of the trauma and the pain of my past. That reminded me, oh, you know what? No matter what you achieve, you don't matter. You're not worthy. Nobody wants you. Those. Those things would kick up in my mind.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Yeah.

[Nona Jones]

And they would actually make me pursue more success because I was like, well, if I just get more. Yeah, then I'll finally matter. And that never worked.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

So you constantly chasing after, after that validation.

[Nona Jones]

Yeah. Be the first, be the youngest, be the only. Those were the things that I felt I needed because again, there were voices in my head telling me, you don't matter. Look, look, your mom took your abuser back over you.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Yeah.

[Nona Jones]

Clearly you don't matter.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Right.

[Nona Jones]

And so it's like, okay, well, I got to get the. The best grades. If I was in an organization, I had to be the president of it. If there was an award to get, I had to get the award. And it was like, people would say things like, man, you're a rock star. You are crushing it.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

You are.

[Nona Jones]

But that was because of my trauma. And I have said this. I think the way we respond to trauma is in one of two ways. We can either explode, which is when maybe there's violence, there's harm. We yell, we kick, we scream, or we can implode, which is self damage. And so you have some people who have addictions, they have vices, people who maybe are hyper ambitious. People reward that, but you don't realize it's because they've imploded. And now they feel like they have to achieve success to matter.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

And that's a dangerous place to be in. It is. It's so dangerous when it comes to forgiving. Have you forgiven your mom? How's your relationship now?

[Nona Jones]

That's such a great question. I will tell you. I went through a. A process with my mom.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

I can imagine.

[Nona Jones]

I'll start at the end. I'll go back to the beginning. We. We don't really have A relationship, because my mom is not safe. And I want to say this, and I hope that it will, like, free somebody when I say this.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Yeah.

[Nona Jones]

One of the revelations God gave me many years ago is that a healthy relationship requires two. Two sides of one coin. We harp on forgiveness all the time. You know, like, well, they. They did the thing. You got to forgive them. You got to move on. Forgiveness is required. That is absolutely true. But you cannot have a healthy relationship if all you do is forgive. Because the other side of the coin is repentance. When there is an offense, I can absolutely forgive that person. I can forgive them for what they did.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Yeah.

[Nona Jones]

If they don't see the wrong in what they did, you will not have a healthy relationship because they will repeat.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

Okay, I'm about to run around this sofa. My God. If they don't see the.

[Nona Jones]

My Lord, they're not safe. And what. So what happens is, for my entire life, I would have people say things like, I can't believe you don't talk to your mom. I can't believe, like, who? How dare you not have a relationship with. With your mom. But these were people who were like, you just need to forgive. You need to forgive. You need to forgive. I have the power to forgive absolutely. But in the absence of repentance, she is not safe. Because an unrepentant person will simply re. Injure you.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Yes.

[Nona Jones]

And my mom would do that over and over and over. And so I. When I received that revelation from God, I experienced so much freedom to the place where it's like, oh, I can forgive you and I can even love you from a distance. I can make sure that you have everything you need physically. I can make sure that if you go in the hospital that you're getting the best care possible. But what I can't do is I can't give you access to me.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Wow.

[Nona Jones]

Because you have proven that you can't handle that, and you can't handle my heart.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

That is powerful.

[Nona Jones]

So have I forgiven? Absolutely. And really, I've forgiven because forgiveness is the gift we give ourselves by releasing our future from the pain of our past.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Yes.

[Nona Jones]

And until you forgive, you're going to just carry the past pain into the future. So I've forgiven her. I realized what she did, she did out of her own hurt, her own ignorance, her own guilt.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Yeah.

[Nona Jones]

The way she shows up today is truly because of guilt. But I also know that I'm responsible for me and she's responsible for her.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Yeah.

[Nona Jones]

And so forgiveness doesn't necessarily mean access.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

Oh, that's a word, and we need that to scroll on the bottom. Forgiveness does not necessarily mean access. Wow.

[Nona Jones]

Of repentance. It does not mean access. Goodness.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Wow.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

That is so good. Is she still with.

[Nona Jones]

Yeah.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

You are lying to me.

[Nona Jones]

Yeah. Well. Well, what you about to say with the man?

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

Is she still with the.

[Nona Jones]

Oh. Oh, well, okay. That's a whole other story. So, first of all, she was with him until not too long ago. I mean, she was with him probably until maybe the last. Maybe the last 10 years, because I remember she brought him to my college graduation. So that gives you a sense for how long they were together. He actually left her.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Wow.

[Nona Jones]

And so the thing about this situation, it was so toxic. He didn't even have a job. Like, she was basically taking care of him. And so it was so, so toxic. But people will say, you just need to forgive. You need to. No, he left her. If it was up to her, he would still be there.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Still be there? Yeah.

[Nona Jones]

Registered sex offender and all.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Jeez.

[Nona Jones]

Yeah.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

That is crazy. I would have been like, mama, he cannot come. Like, oh.

[Nona Jones]

I would. I would say things like that. She brought him to my trial sermon when I was 17, preaching my very first sermon, you know, about to be licensed into ministry. She brought him there? Yeah.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

How did you feel like, in that moment?

[Nona Jones]

Like, I think I was kind of desensitized by then, because, you know, that's a real thing. When my mom brought him back, I think something within me knew the only solution is to leave. Like, at this point, I just had to focus on my grades. I have to focus on getting out of here. And so I did. I got a full scholarship to college. But, yeah, she would bring him around constantly.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

Mm. Did you ever deal with shame growing up? Cause I can imagine, like, navigating that. I would. I can imagine, absolutely. Because I can't honestly, like, yeah, that's a lot.

[Nona Jones]

Shame, shame, shame. We use the words guilt and shame interchangeably. But guilt is the idea that I made a mistake. Shame is the idea that I am a mistake. It's about identity. And so I wrestled with that constantly. Like, obviously, something must be wrong with me for her to allow him back. Something must be wrong with me. My mom would go days and weeks without spending speaking to me as a child. Like, even now, I don't hear from her. And it's not because I told her not to call me.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Right.

[Nona Jones]

But if I don't reach out to her, I don't hear from her. And there were so many years I was like, what is wrong with me? What did I do that was so bad? Here I am, like, straight A student, dean's list, all these leadership, being selected for these leadership programs and awards. I was selected as a commencement speaker for high school. I did all these things thinking that she'll choose me if. If I am the best.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Yeah.

[Nona Jones]

I know that now. It's like, man, she'll. She'll choose me if I'm the best. And nothing was ever enough. And so I had to come to the place where I was just like, this is what it is. This is not the anomaly. This is the experience.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Yes.

[Nona Jones]

And I had to figure out how I was gonna move because of that.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

Oh, my gosh, was there ever a moment, Because I know a lot of young women who go through the same thing that you went through also end up chasing after men, seeking some type of, like, the approval and the want from someone else. Did you go through a phase like that?

[Nona Jones]

Oh, yeah. And see, the scary part of all this is I didn't know. Like, I didn't know that the wounds that she created would actually show up in how I related to other people. And you kind of referenced that earlier.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Yeah.

[Nona Jones]

Yeah. Like, I need. I needed attention. Because that's a basic human need.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

It is.

[Nona Jones]

Basic human need is attention, affection, love. And I was denied all of that. And so, yeah, like, I remember in college because, again, hyper, hyper ambitious. So I was like, president of my sorority, and I was like, dean's list, this, that, and the other. So. So my success in college made me visible to guys who were like, oh, you know. Yeah, she. She's the one.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Yeah.

[Nona Jones]

And so, yeah, I was like, oh, my God, he's paying attention to me. And I even tell people, I'm like, look, a lot of times we're shocked when beautiful women end up in crazy relationships.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

Oh, yeah.

[Nona Jones]

But it's because that. That physical beauty is not a proxy for emotional wholeness.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Yeah.

[Nona Jones]

You can be physically gorgeous and emotionally damaged.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

Absolutely.

[Nona Jones]

So, yeah, I was in all types of relationships with God, got cheated on. The guy I thought I was going to marry before my husband cheated on me. Got to grow pregnant, like, just all the things.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Yeah.

[Nona Jones]

Because of what I assumed was my lack of worth. So I almost, like, I would make myself accessible simply because they acknowledged me.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Yes.

[Nona Jones]

You know?

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Yeah.

[Nona Jones]

Like, I didn't have the standard that. Wait a minute. No, I'm fearfully and wonderfully made. I'm a royal priesthood. Peculiar people. None of that. I was just like, oh, you. You want to spend time with me? Okay. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Okay.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Perfect. Yeah. Yeah. Wow.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

That's crazy. We talk about something that I'm in therapy as well, and my therapist just. She broke something down to me called the mother wound. And I had never heard of that terminology. I was like, what is that? And she's like, when you think about it, she said the mother is normally the primary caregiver, even if you do have a mother and father in the home. And whatever that mom is going through during those early childhood development ages, those are the way the child reacts to love or get out of my face or I don't have time. They pick up on those patterns at a very young age, and that's how they carry on to all their relationships until they realize, wait a minute, this isn't right. And I was 30. When did you introduce me to Delayna? Two years. So, yeah, I literally, just when I was 40, started seeking therapy and starting to unpack all this stuff. Like, literally, I'm like, wait a minute.

[Nona Jones]

You mean to tell me I ain't.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

Got a man because of this? Oh, my, like, mind blowing, the things that I've been developing since a kid. Not to blame moms, but that is a scientific fact that, like, that is the person that really develops that relational emotion that you have with people. And you carry that through your whole life until either you had a good foundation or a bad one. Then you're like, wait a minute, I gotta rethink some things.

[Nona Jones]

You know, it's like you said something at the very beginning of your comment that I think is important, which is you had never heard of mother wounds.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

Never.

[Nona Jones]

Because we assume that's impossible. Right? Like, because our mother, like, that's our source of life. Right. Like, we would not be here had it not been for our mother. And so the idea that that primary caregiver would wound us is like, almost inconceivable. But because it's inconceivable, I believe it is so damaging. Like father wounds. Yes, they're damaging, absolutely. This idea that our father's like, oh, you're not my child, and yeah, that's damaging. But when your mother said she didn't want to have you, when your mother chooses somebody else over you, when you're not good enough for your mother, like, there is something that happens there that is damaging. I did a therapy session in December where I went up to Ohio. It was like this three day soul care intensive. Really powerful.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Wow.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

Soul care. That sounds good.

[Nona Jones]

The psychologist did an exercise where he took me back in my mind's eye to an experience that happened to me. When my mom, I was nine years old, my mom and her boyfriend were arguing about something in the living room. I didn't know what it was. I was in my room reading. She called me out to the living room and asked me a question. I didn't have context for the question, so I just answered it. Apparently, I guess I answered it the way her boyfriend did. I don't know. She lunged at me, started strangling me. I started to lose consciousness. I don't even remember how it stopped, but I remember getting up, running into my room, going into the closet. I locked my bedroom door. I closed the closet. I remember sitting on a pile of dirty clothes next to the hamper, crying myself to sleep. Psychologist. I had not thought about that experience in decades. He did an exercise, took me back to that moment. And what I realized is that that was the moment. That was literally the moment when I became an entirely different person. Because that nine year old self, it's almost like I locked her away because I was like, I can't be you, I can't be vulnerable, I can't trust anybody. And so there was a part of me, like that part of me that was able to just trust and be vulnerable that was in that closet still. And he had to take me back to that. And he helped me realize that wound was still there, still there. Everybody's like, oh, you're so strong. You know, you're just unflappable. You can be in conflict, high conflict situations and you're the coolest person in the room. Well, it's because that nine year old self was locked away. That part of me that was vulnerable and free was locked away. And I didn't know it. At the hands of my mom.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Yeah.

[Nona Jones]

The person who gave me life about to take my life.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Yes.

[Nona Jones]

There's no way to experience that and be the same.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

No, it's not.

[Nona Jones]

After that. But I never, I never connected the dots that anything changed. I just thought life went on. Oh, no, life doesn't go on after the.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

It does not. You do and it's crazy. You said that he took you back. That's the same thing my therapist did when we started just trying to break down, like why I am the way I am and figuring out where these behaviors come from. And as I started to unpack it, it goes all the way back to childhood. And I was like, oh my goodness. And the things that we remember, that we've suppressed, they come back so vividly. Like you remember every instance. And it's like sometimes the people who did it? Don't remember. They're like. They're, like, oblivious to.

[Nona Jones]

And they blame you for it. Like, why are you bringing that up? I didn't do that.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

Literally. What?

[Nona Jones]

Me? What you talking about? Why would you say it?

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

Okay, I'm crazy and you, like, why.

[Nona Jones]

Would I make this up?

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

Right?

[Nona Jones]

Yes.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

That's so true. Oh, my goodness. So through all of that, Nona, what led you to ministry? Because you are the founder of Nona Jones Ministry. You and your husband lead the open door church. What led you to, like, I know at age of 11 is when you got into church and you started studying for yourself, but what made you say, I want to dive deeper and spread this to the world?

[Nona Jones]

Well, what's funny is it was never my plan to, like, be a preacher, travel, any of that. What essentially happened was, so at the age of 17, I was licensed into ministry. That was the service that my mom came and brought a boyfriend to. I knew that I had a call to teach. Like, I knew I had a call to teach the Bible. I loved that. And so at the age of 17, I got licensed into ministry. Now I thought I would just maybe teach, like, youth Bible studies or maybe like, once a year, maybe preach for the church or whatever. But fast forward to, I think this was maybe 2018. So I'm working for the company formerly known as Facebook.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

Yeah.

[Nona Jones]

And as the head of faith partnerships, I would get invited to speak at, like, church conferences, like, church technology conferences. And I would go and I would speak about how to use technology for ministry. But the thing about me is I only know one way to talk in those settings, because I am a preacher.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Right.

[Nona Jones]

And so I would literally be up there, like, and the technology, the algorithm says.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

You'Re like.

[Nona Jones]

So people be. And they're like, this is different. This is different.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

She's passionate.

[Nona Jones]

Right, Right. The technology. Yes. Hallelujah. So what was happening?

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

I would have.

[Nona Jones]

So pastors would be in the audience, like, different churches. And so people, like, would start. Just invited me to speak at, like, conferences or even speak at their weekend service or something.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

Like, you need to come to church. Come speak to my people.

[Nona Jones]

I was like, okay. And so I just kind of did it. And then I just started to get, like, more and more invitations to do that. But again, it was never my thought. As a matter of fact, at my own church, I really wasn't even speaking at my own church because at that point, I was on a corporate track.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

Gotcha.

[Nona Jones]

I was senior executive in different companies and things, and so I wasn't around here, like, you know, I'm gonna preach and I'm doing. God just started to open the doors. And even now I look and I'm amazed. I'm like, lord, what is this? But one thing God told me, and this was at the end of 2023, so I'm still on the team at YouVersion, but God actually had me step down from my role because he said, I have called you to be a light in dark place places. He said, the Bible app is a light in lit places.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

I have called you to be a.

[Nona Jones]

Light in dark places.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

That's it.

[Nona Jones]

And it. It suddenly all made sense where it was like, oh, wait. So all this time I've been in leadership in these companies where I've been bringing the witness of Jesus into boardrooms. I've been bringing the witness of Jesus into spaces where he, not he would not normally be. And it's like, oh, now it makes sense. It's like, so I am literally bringing the witness of Jesus in places where people don't expect him to be.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

That's so true.

[Nona Jones]

That's the calling on my life. And so I love that I get to preach and teach and do all these things. And at the same time, I'm also bringing the witness of Jesus into the workplace, into business conferences, into leadership spaces. I'm speaking at a conference tomorrow in Texas, which is like a group of like, business women, executive women entrepreneurs, where I'm going to be talking about the light and the hope of Jesus. You know, I'm going to be talking about business strategy and all that.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

But I love how you can merge the two. I love that. Exactly.

[Nona Jones]

Yeah.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

Wow.

[Nona Jones]

So that's how it happened, child. It just. The algorithm.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

The algorithm.

[Nona Jones]

The algorithm.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

The algorithm says, yes, you need a poster this time.

[Nona Jones]

Next time, if we turn to Instagram.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

Yes, girl.

[Nona Jones]

Yes.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

We need her on the team. That is too funny. Oh, my goodness. Well, one of your many titles. You're an author and you have written three other books, Killing Comparison, Success from the Inside out, and From Social Media to Ministry, the globally acclaimed guide to digital discipleship for churches at the top of the year. Everyone is trying to clear their slate and they have all these different goals that they want to do. These three books I would recommend everybody.

[Nona Jones]

To read, for sure.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

But can you tell why each of the books will be helpful for their 2024?

[Nona Jones]

Oh, sure. So Success from the Inside Out. I wrote that. That's my memoir. So I'm just sharing my story. Who I am, how I became who I am. So I Talk about the trauma. I talk about the role that forgiveness has played. Because the. Really. What kind of catalyzed that book is. I, at the time, I was working in politics, really. And, yep, I was leading.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

We got a lot in common.

[Nona Jones]

You work.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

I worked on the Hill. That was my first job out of college for the Senate. Yeah, we got. We got a whole lot.

[Nona Jones]

Yeah, we got, girl.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

Yes. Yeah, we do. As you're talking, I'm like, check.

[Nona Jones]

I was at. I was at. This was. Under the Obama administration. I was at a White House function, and there's all these, like, influential people there. And I remember I was. I was in the room and the president, first lady were over there, and I was looking at all these people, and I had this thought. I was like, I should feel like I've arrived, but I should feel like. Like full. I feel empty. And I was like, if this is all there is, is, Lord, is this all there is to success? Is just being in a room where everyone knows of you, but nobody knows you.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Ooh.

[Nona Jones]

And so I went back to my hotel room that night and I prayed. And that's where success from the inside out came from. Because I. I opened up the Bible and I went to Joshua, chapter one. And the book of Deuteronomy ends where Moses dies.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

I literally just finished Deuteronomy this morning. Promise you.

[Nona Jones]

Okay, so Joshua next.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Yes.

[Nona Jones]

Come on, Holy Spirit.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

Come on now. Dwell in this place.

[Nona Jones]

Come on.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Yes.

[Nona Jones]

It's one of my favorite book. Joshua 1. What happens is. So Moses dies. Joshua becomes the leader of the children of Israel. God basically pulls Joshua to the side to give him some instruction for how to lead them in a way that would be successful. And in Joshua 1:8, God tells Joshua, he says, meditate in the law day and night. Observe to do all that is written in it. Then you will make your way prosperous and you will have good success. When I read that, the idea of good success was so paradoxical to me, because we think success is good by definition.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

Yes.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Right?

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

Yes.

[Nona Jones]

But what God helped me to realize is there is a success that isn't good because you can talk about it, check all the boxes and be overwhelmed, be depressed, isolated. Right.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

No, seriously.

[Nona Jones]

But, like, everybody's looking at you and they're like, that's what I want.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

You don't want this right now. What'd you tell me? Other than, like, you seem. You seem anxious. I'm like, I am. Like, I had to literally tell my. Even this morning. Breathe. Thank you, God, for this. Breath. Thank you, God, for this Day, not asking for anything. Thank you, thank you, thank you. And then like, just get diving in the word. And when I say so much peace came over me. I was like, okay. And literally God was telling Joshua at the end of Deuteronomy, going into. I was like, oh, my goodness, okay, this is what I have to do.

[Nona Jones]

There is a success that isn't good. And, but, but when, when God said, meditate in the law, do what it says, he said, you will make your way prosperous and you will have good success. So the idea that if you do what the word of God says, that you don't even have to be like, lord, I hope that you'll favor this. You'll make your way prosperous because that becomes the guardrail. And so I wrote success from the inside out because I was like, lord, I want good success.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Yeah.

[Nona Jones]

And. And I realized success begins within. Like, there is nothing you can accumulate around you that will fill a deficit within you.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Yeah.

[Nona Jones]

And so you can have all the stuff, cars, the houses, the clothes.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

It doesn't feel anything. As soon as you buy, two days later you're like, listen, like, why did I buy? Why did I buy that?

[Nona Jones]

Where? The receipt.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

Dang it, I got some makeup on it.

[Nona Jones]

It's true though. And you know, having worked for the world's largest social media company, I do have to say this. We end up comparing our reality to other people's fiction.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

Come on now, like, what? Say that again. I just caught it and it hit me. We compare our reality to other people's fiction.

[Nona Jones]

Like, people make these posts that they're just so happy and everything is so great. And so then we look at that and we're like, that's what I want. But what you don't realize is they are depressed. They are stressed out girl. I remember one time there was a girl. This was years ago, I used to follow her account. I admired her because she was always like, fashion. She was doing the thing. And so somehow I got in touch with her one day because she was always wearing like the high fashion, expensive stuff.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Yeah.

[Nona Jones]

I got in touch with her because I was doing a conference. I wanted her to speak at it. This girl was like, oh, you know, I'd love to do it, but I actually got evicted from my apartment and I'm staying with a friend. That morning she had posted a picture of herself showing the red bottom heels, the Chanel bag, this, that and the other. And I. It's like, it's like the veil fell from my eyes. I was like, oh, wait, what happened? People can post what isn't even real.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

Honey, people will post in fake houses. We learn a lot.

[Nona Jones]

Not the Airbnb.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

Airbnb with a mattress on the floor. I'm like, but you was just in Milan. The math is not mathing. And you literally are looking like, oh, my God, I want her life. Yes, she is living a life not knowing she's sleeping on the floor.

[Nona Jones]

I had a situation where. Cause you know how people slide into your DMs, right? I had a situation. We know God wanted people slid into my DMs, and I'm one of those people. I'm like, look, I'm married.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

Like, I don't think that.

[Nona Jones]

Right? But he started to talk about his wife, how he was leaving his wife, and it, like, piqued my interest because I was like, really? I was like, well, why? I was like, why? He was like, well, you know, she just. I'm just not happy and things just aren't working out or whatever. And I was like, interesting. I was like, well, have you talked to her about the problems? And he said he had, and they. But they weren't going to therapy because of whatever. At the same time that he's saying this, he's posting Woman Crush Wednesday of her. Yes. And so I'm sitting here and I'm just like. The reason why I bring that up is because, again, we feel this pressure to live up to a lie.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

We do.

[Nona Jones]

It's like, no, no. So success begins within. That's why I wrote that book.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

That's so good. No, so good.

[Nona Jones]

Killing Comparison came out of a similar situation where one day I. This was back in 2020. I had a full calendar of speaking engagements, you know, two books coming out, and everything got canceled, of course, because of the pandemic.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Right.

[Nona Jones]

And I went on to Instagram one day, and this was when everything was canceled. All my events were canceled. Went on to Instagram, and a friend of mine made a post that she was speaking at this huge virtual women's conference. It'll be tens of thousands of women. And I saw the post, and I was like, oh, that sounds really cool. Well, I. Scroll down a little bit more. There was another friend who said that she would be also speaking at this huge virtual women's conference. I was like, okay, scroll down a little more. There was another friend speaking at it.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

Oh, wow.

[Nona Jones]

And another friend, another friend.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

Everybody speaking this but me. Why am I not there?

[Nona Jones]

You hear me? So I started clicking on their profile because I was like, well, how many followers they have a comparison to Me?

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Yeah.

[Nona Jones]

Like, I started clicking on their websites. Where else are they speaking at in comparison to me? I want to know why I wasn't invited. I was like, out my business and.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

Get off my street. Get off my couch, actually, because I don't like you attacking me like this. Because I'm guilty. I am guilty. Go. I don't like how you're in my business, though.

[Nona Jones]

I was like, I want to know. I was like, why was she invited? Why was I not invited? Why was I overlooked? As I was asking all these why questions, I heard the Holy Spirit say, nona, why does it matter?

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

Why does it matter? I'm guilty. I'm just being honest. I've done that. How'd she get that? How? How?

[Nona Jones]

How sway? What?

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

How sway? I was so confused. I was like, lord, but I. It doesn't matter.

[Nona Jones]

It doesn't matter.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

And then he says, look, look around. Why does it matter?

[Nona Jones]

Right? But, but that idea of. Of toxic comparison.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Yes.

[Nona Jones]

Where I see somebody else's win is my loss. I see somebody else's success as my failure. God helped me to see in that season that I was insecure.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Yeah.

[Nona Jones]

And if you would have told me back then in 2020 that I was insecure, I'd have been like, no, no, ma'. Am. I said, do you see what I've done? Do you see what I've accomplished? Do you see what I have? And God was like, you can be the most handsome, the most beautiful, the most popular, the most wealthy. You can be the most powerful person on earth and still be insecure. Because security is not a function of your self esteem. It's a question of what your identity is secure to.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

What is it that is it.

[Nona Jones]

And if it's secured to anything that is subject to other people's approval, opinions, evaluation or assessment.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Yeah.

[Nona Jones]

You'll be insecure because people's opinions change like the current of the sea.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

It is. You are so right, my lord. You are on my street. As PD says, you're on my street. I'm like, yeah, my business. That's where it came from. But that's so good. And that's so true because so often it doesn't matter who you are, it's just human nature to at some point kind of be like, well, how is that happening for them and not for me? You know, And I have to check myself. And I. And I always remind myself, God has blessed me beyond measure and everything I've asked for, he's like literally blown my mind. And when I've allowed him to Lead me and just take the lead is more than I could have ever imagined, you know, And I always try to be cognizant and aware to make sure that that comparison doesn't turn into jealousy and envy. Because that's when it gets dangerous. Yeah, yeah, that's when it gets dangerous.

[Nona Jones]

Well, and it. If it's one of those things where we have to guard against it, like, there's never gonna be a point where you're just gonna be like, I'm just so happy for everybody that has more than me. It's so great. Like you're never gonna be there. But what I had to learn to do, and I kind of outlined the process in killing comparison, is I've had to learn to celebrate others success.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Yes.

[Nona Jones]

Like actually celebrate it. The through line in that book is, you know, we all know about Saul and David, right? How Saul was jealous of David and all that. But there's actually a third person in that story that never gets talked about. And. And that's Saul's son, Jonathan.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

Oh, wow.

[Nona Jones]

So Saul, king of Israel, David, this young shepherd boy, Jonathan, is next in line to be king. What we know is that Saul's jealousy of David was triggered because when they both returned to town from a battle, the people were like, saul has slain his thousands and David his tens of thousands. And so it says from that moment on, Saul eyed David. He became jealous. Jonathan overhears the exact same song. Like he's in the exact same vicinity. Instead of as the next in line to be king, him becoming jealous of David, he walks over to David, gives him his weapons and his robe. This is the guy who's next in line to be king. Hearing the people celebrate this guy, he becomes David's best friend, his champion, his defender. But what I realized is that although not a lot is said about Jonathan, Jonathan knew God for real. Like if you read 1st Samuel 14 and 6, I think it is. He goes and fights a contingent of Philistines by himself. And he says this. He says, nothing can hinder the Lord from saving, whether by many or by few. So he wasn't intimidated, Right. By people's celebration of David. He celebrated him too. He was like, go forth.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Yes.

[Nona Jones]

Because if God is for you, who can be against you? And we have to have that mentality.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

Yes, it is so true. One thing that I tell all my friends, like, when you see something happening for someone else, clap for them. Especially, like if, like, say, we're friends, we're friends now.

[Nona Jones]

Cause now we know each other for real.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

And I see Something amazing happening for you. I'm in your neighborhood, you know, it sounds like the Passover. We both got the. He ain't gonna pass me by.

[Nona Jones]

No.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

You know what I'm saying? You right there. I know. If you got it, it's coming next to me. Whatever it is that I'm asking God for, it may not look the same, but a lot of times in friendships we can be like, right? She thinks. She thinks she all that.

[Nona Jones]

No, you think she all that. That's. That's the thing. So I look at it like, when I see someone succeeding.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Yes.

[Nona Jones]

I see that as a receipt for what's possible for me.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

Amen.

[Nona Jones]

That's like, she got. Okay, so it's possible.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

It's possible. Amen. And clap for her.

[Nona Jones]

Yes.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

And him, whoever.

[Nona Jones]

I don't lose anything. True story. Two weeks before Killing Comparison was supposed to come out. This was in 2022. A friend of mine was releasing a book. She was on all the major news outlets. Today Show, Good Morning America, msnbc, all these things. People were talking about her book all over social media. And the enemy started to say, see, anybody gonna buy your book. Nobody's gonna have you on their programs. Look at that. She getting all the shine. Nobody care about you. Just that and the other. I went over to my computer. I went to Amazon. I bought her book.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Yes.

[Nona Jones]

I went over to my bed. I pulled a pillow off the bed. I knelt on it. I prayed in earnest for her. I said, God bless her. I want you to exceed her expectations. Blow her mind. Take this message to the far corners of the earth. I got up off the pillow, I texted her, my sister, I am so excited for what God is doing. I am praying for you. I am rooting for you. When I hit send on that message, I said, take that, devil. Take it, because you are not going to have me over here. Thinking that somehow her win is my loss. Like, there's only so much attention that could be given to something. I was like, if God is for me, I know that I will be fine. Two days later, my publisher reaches out and was like, oh, yeah, Good Morning America to interview you.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

Come on, Jesus.

[Nona Jones]

And what God told me in that moment is he said, this is not about you.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Yeah.

[Nona Jones]

This is about you understanding that if I can trust you, there is no limit to where I will take you.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

You heard that dinar? That. That. That was good.

[Nona Jones]

If I can trust you, I can trust you. There's no limit. There's no limit to where I will take you.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

Oh, you are blessing my soul. This morning, my goodness. Oh, my goodness. We talk about social media and how we're always comparing ourselves, but we also share a lot on social media. You share your family, your fitness, your health regimen, skincare. All the things something that I struggle with is, you know, opening up more on social media. I'm super private. I try to give them just enough, just a taste to make that. To make them feel like they're a part of my world. Just a teaspoon. That's a teaspoon, not a full tablespoon. Just a little bit. Yes, but what would be some of your advice? Just to kind of help manage that and balance that. Because it can be such a cold world with the comments and people having an opinion about everything, and you're just trying to share your light and just inspire people through your life. And that's all I'm trying to do. Even from I post my workouts and I post what I'm eating just so they can see, oh, she's eating healthy. Let me put this cheeseburger down and go get a acai bowl or something, you know? But how do you manage that? And what kind of advice would you give for me and other young women who are on social media and want to share more but are a little reluctant?

[Nona Jones]

Well, I think you're being wise. First of all, you're being very wise because you're being intended. Intentional about what you're sharing. Like you're trying to inspire people, which I think is beautiful. Yes. People are people on social media. All right.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

Do you deal with it, too?

[Nona Jones]

Of course, girl. Let me not post a clip of me preaching, because here come the first Timothy's suffer. Not a woman to preach. Like, y'. All. This is my. Like, this is my platform.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

Why are you here? Why are you here?

[Nona Jones]

You know what I do.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Right?

[Nona Jones]

But anyway, yeah, people are people everywhere. And so you're gonna have some people who are like, oh, she thinks he does that. It's like, whatever. I think just having. Having a heart to inspire is great. One of the things that God has convicted me about is when I'm posting, where is the glory going?

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

Wow.

[Nona Jones]

So, okay, when I post this, is the glory coming to me? Are you. Is it going to God? Perfect example. I forget which book it was. It might have been killing comparison. My publisher told me that it got put in Target, which is apparently, like, really hard for, like, spiritual books.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

Whatever.

[Nona Jones]

Yeah. And so I made a post about it, and like, 10 minutes after I made that post, God said, take it down. And I was like, why?

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Yeah.

[Nona Jones]

And God said, because your heart was to draw attention to yourself. Like, look at me.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

Look. I made it in Target. Yes.

[Nona Jones]

As opposed to what I had done.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Wow.

[Nona Jones]

And so I, I, I would give that as just a principle.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

The heart.

[Nona Jones]

Yeah, the heart. Posture matters. And so the question is, what's the goal? Is it to inspire other people? And here's the reality. Some people are going to have a problem no matter what you do. Right. Because that's their heart. Like social media. I think social media exposes insecurity, but it's not the source of it. Because two people can look at your post working out. One person could be like, I'm going to the gym. Another person could be like, oh, she thinks she fine. Yep.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Yep.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

She doing too much. She's showing too much.

[Nona Jones]

She doing too much.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

I mean, workout. Like, it's always something.

[Nona Jones]

Yes.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Yeah.

[Nona Jones]

So I would say just have, have that heart. The heart to inspire, that heart to encourage and just guard it. Because that platform is a ministry.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Yes.

[Nona Jones]

There are people who are watching. There are people who will read into things. And so, yeah, I would say don't. Don't share it all. Don't share it all, but you're doing fine.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

Okay.

[Nona Jones]

Just to inspire.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

I think now that I have you here, something that I struggle with just as an actor, and I've talked to PD and Pastor Shamika about this, just being an actor and the characters that I portray and who I am in real life, and then wondering if I do struggle with, wondering if acting and the characters that I play are pleasing in God's eyes or if he's judging me for the character that I'm playing and who I am or if it's the same thing. And he's like, you shouldn't even be doing that because you're my child. And then a part of me is like, but that's like I'm portraying something that really happened.

[Nona Jones]

You know what I'm saying?

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

And I don't know if I'm making an excuse, but I'm like, really? I struggle with that. And, you know, my family is super supportive, but also struggling. Like, God, is this squeezing in your eyes? And am I doing the right thing? And so I just want to get some insight on that. How do you feel?

[Nona Jones]

So this may be controversial, but the way that I've learned to live my life is that when I have the question, that is the answer. Yeah. So it's. Listen, when I have the question. Question, it's because there is something on the inside of me that's like, that's where the question comes from. Because if there's alignment, I don't even.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

Have a question right.

[Nona Jones]

It's like, we good? So it's something to just lean into. It's like, okay, okay, I have this question. There's something there. Is there a change I need to make? Is there something that I need to tweak like, so that I can be in alignment? Because once the question is answered, you will have perfect peace.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Yeah.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

That is so good. Like, I, I wrestle with that.

[Nona Jones]

I know, I know it's hard, cuz.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

It'S like, Lord, it's like, I feel like it's like you blessed me with my dream and what I wanted to do, but now it's like as I'm on this walk and trying to, I really, I'm trying to bring people, people closer to God, you know, in the dark place. You know, social media is a dark place. Acting is in. Hollywood is a dark place, you know.

[Nona Jones]

But that's where I think also discernment is. It's like, lord, that's where I said, what's the tweet? Is there a tweak I can make? Because you darkness. We are called to be light in dark places. Like, I think many times we get so comfortable in light. Yeah, but light don't need light.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

It show don't.

[Nona Jones]

So it's like, all right, Lord, how do I. How do I carry light into this dark place so that it's not extinguished? What do I need to do again? Is there a tweak I need to make? Is there a change I need to make? How do I make sure that I set apart so that people are drawn to me? So I'm not common, I'm not familiar. I'm not just another one of those. It's like, oh, no, we need to go talk to Crystal because like, you can tell there's a difference.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Yeah.

[Nona Jones]

Wow. And figuring out what that is and the discernment of God will. Will make it clear for you.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Thank you.

[Host/Moderator]

Sorry, I just feel like I have to ask because the other thing is that there. Would the platform that you received as an actor afford to do this ministry?

[Nona Jones]

Yes.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

Wow, you're right. Because I'm bringing everybody.

[Nona Jones]

Yes.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

And that's kind of what we were talking about. Who was, who was on the couch Pretty V when she was here. I said, I see that God is bringing like a lot of people, that he is like risen to a high platform back to Jesus. Like, it's almost like he's like, I'm gonna Use you for this. You gonna. This is what we're gonna use to get to bring people to me. And, like, they're denouncing what they were. I'm not like, who is it? The big singer, Latin singer, rapper that just gave his life to Christ and he's not singing anymore.

[Nona Jones]

Oh, it's about Daddy Yankee.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

Daddy Yankee. Like, I. I see things like that. I'm like.

[Host/Moderator]

And then Kat Von D also apparently renounced all her witchcraft and all that stuff, and she's. She's Team Jesus now.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Amazing.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

But.

[Nona Jones]

But it happens because of intention. Like, I think that's why this conversation is good, because it's like, all right, Lord, you've given me this platform to be a witness for you. How do I steward up?

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

That's our words.

[Nona Jones]

Because what happens. I've seen this happen too. This may be controversial as well. We pray for things, and we're like, I just want to. I want to give God the glory. Then we get the platform and we become darkness.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

Yes. Oh, no, no.

[Nona Jones]

That happens.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

That's so true.

[Host/Moderator]

Also start worshiping the platform more than they do.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

The provider of the platform.

[Nona Jones]

That's it.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Yes. Yeah.

[Nona Jones]

Like, how do I keep. Keep the platform? It's like, well, if it's his, it's.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

Not for you to keep. I was literally making my bed this morning, and I don't the holy. Because I had just finished reading, so, like, the Holy Spirit was talking to me, and God said, you continue to talk to me, and I talk about me and spread my word, and I would draw all men unto you, and I would put my pillar. I said, like, it literally hit me. I was like, if anybody dies, they're gonna be like, is she okay? Like, y' all literally like, yeah. I was like, ooh, okay. I felt that because sometimes you feel like, okay, I gotta keep this, like, cool. I gotta make it cool so people will still want to, you know, tune in. How can I still be me and praise Jesus at the same time? And it's like, you know, I'm. I'm just being honest and transparent. Like, I struggle with that because there are things I'm working on. My mouth, I curse. You know, I was doing a live with my friend the other day, and you know how, like, when you with your friends, like, you might get another piece, another side that you might get on here. And she was like, should I delete that? I said, yeah. Cause I was saying broke niggas a lot. I was like, that is not of God. And I was like, let's. I Said that's why I didn't collaborate with you, because I said that is not on brand and I need to work on that. I said, so let me work on how I talk to my friends too, you know, so that, like, it's not a switch, you know, just being transparent, y'.

[Nona Jones]

All. Yeah.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

But I. I do, I struggle with it. And, and I do. I know my heart posture is for God and I want to give him the glory. And. But being caught up in two worlds trying to find that balance. But that was good, Dinora, that acting created this platform to give him the glory.

[Host/Moderator]

And I'm not saying that this is the case for you. Right. Because only you and God know what your acting journey.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Yeah.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

Is meant to be.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Yeah.

[Host/Moderator]

But I think that in general, sometimes we're so attached to what. But, but you made me an actor.

[Nona Jones]

You made me an actor. You made me an actor.

[Host/Moderator]

So you think that that is the destination. And for some, that just might be a part of the journey. Right. Like there might be just somebody that God says, I'm going to make you an actor. So. So that you're on the number one cable television drama every week so that millions of people come to you. And then when they come to you, all they see is the light of me.

[Nona Jones]

That is so relevant because I think, like I just said, God told me that I need to step away from the day to Day at YouVersion because he called me to be a light in dark places. I got asked. So in a few weeks, I'll be at the Black Enterprise Women of Power summit, which is a business. It's business. Women. Women of power. And they've asked me to preach a message. Right. Why? Because I'm a businesswoman.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

Yes, yes.

[Nona Jones]

Like. Like, they're. They're not asking me because I'm a preacher.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Yeah.

[Nona Jones]

I'm a businesswoman who happens to be a preacher. Right. And so that platform created the opportunity to bring the witness of Jesus into that space. So I totally agree with you. I totally agree with you. There's something that God has done in that platform that he wants to use for his glory.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Yes.

[Nona Jones]

And now it's just about discernment and like, all right, Lord, how do I. How do I do this?

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

Well, yeah, we're in church right now. We're doing 40 days a fast, and we're in Sikh season. And it's funny because Pastor Darius McClure preached on Monday, on Sunday. And one of the part was, one of the things he told us to do was to make sure that we Let squads that are not for us die like the circle that you have around you. So he was like, if somebody tried to come in and they not talking about what you're talking about, tell Moses dead. Like, we're going. Where we going? You can't go. Moses is dead.

[Nona Jones]

Right?

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

And so every time my friend would say something, she was like, girl, cuz so? And so I said, girl, Moses is dead. I was like, they can't come where we're going.

[Nona Jones]

No.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

And it was crazy. We left church and my brother was in the car, and he said marquis. He said he had told one of his friends all the things that he was fasting from. And she was like, you doing all that, like, that's a lot. Like, you giving up. You doing too much. And I said, what you're fasting for between you and God, that's it. I was like. I said. And he's like, you know what? You're right. Because I started second guessing what God had told me to give up. And I said, you can't do that. Literally, as we're having the conversation, one of our directors from the studio calls me, and he's known for writing really dark films. And he's like, crisscross. That's what he calls me. What you doing? And I was like, nothing much. I said, just leaving church. He said, what are y' all doing? I said, we're actually starting a fast today. He said, ooh, I need to do it with y'. All. He said, God has been tugging at me. And he was like, I'm telling you. He said, I've had the worst week. He said, I'm sorry. So glad I called you. So what y' all giving up? And I said, well, whatever God puts on your heart. And he was like, I'm gonna do it with y'. All. Send me the devotional. I'm gonna do it. And I said, that's the type of people you need in your squad. Like, people that are like, instantly like, ooh, I wanna do it with you. Not you doing too much.

[Nona Jones]

See? See?

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

And it was like. And he literally. Marquis said, oh, my God. He said the way God just, like, literally, like, affirmed what we were talking about. In the middle of the conversation, we both looked up and said, oh, that's.

[Nona Jones]

How you do it. Okay.

[Host/Moderator]

See how, again, in the acting, you are bringing God into it.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

That was an. Oh, my. I missed it. I missed it. Wow. That was another moment where I brought. This isn't. Yes.

[Host/Moderator]

A studio executive who's calling you.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Yes.

[Host/Moderator]

And you are having A conversation about God. And you're having a conversation about what God called you into, and you are now having one individual fast because of a conversation that you had when he was called calling you about something completely different.

[Nona Jones]

Who knows how God's going to work through that?

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

Oh, my goodness.

[Nona Jones]

Who knows what God's going to do? But because you stepped into that moment and you were not ashamed because you could have easily been like, oh, yeah, we just heading home, about to go.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

Get something to eat.

[Nona Jones]

Yeah, go get something to eat.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

What you doing? Pull up.

[Nona Jones]

This is what we're doing.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

This is what we're doing.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Yeah, man.

[Nona Jones]

Yeah. I've been having. And I will say this. You know this. I'm not in Hollywood, but it's like, there's so much pain.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Yeah.

[Nona Jones]

There's a lot of wealth. There's a lot of notoriety.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Yeah.

[Nona Jones]

There's so much pain.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Yeah.

[Nona Jones]

And people are trying to fix that pain with things that will not fix it, whether it's drugs, excess, whatever.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

My goodness.

[Nona Jones]

You have the answer.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

That's you.

[Nona Jones]

That's Jesus.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Yeah.

[Nona Jones]

Like, you have the answer that everybody is looking for.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Yes.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

Yes.

[Nona Jones]

So God is literally sending you out as an emissary, as an ambassador.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Yes.

[Nona Jones]

And the key is to represent him well. It's like, lord, I want to represent you well. I don't want people to be like, she's a Christian. Like, I don't know. I want people to be like, oh, yeah, no, that. She's. She's a Christian. She's a follower of Jesus.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

Yes.

[Nona Jones]

That's the goal. Like, God, give me wisdom so that I represent you well in these spaces.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

Thank you, Nona. That was. Thank you, Dora. That was good. Y. Y' all really just, like, gave me so much peace, and I know what I need to do. Yeah, I got it.

[Nona Jones]

You do?

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

I do.

[Nona Jones]

You already knew. Yeah. We were like, so tell me what you think about why? Cause you know. Cause you know.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

Cause you already know. That is so funny. I was having a conversation with someone else, and I want to pick your brain about this as well. This is just like, turning to, like, a open table talk.

[Nona Jones]

I love it.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

I love it. So I was actually having this conversation with Deval about different religions, and as a Christian, not judging people for what they believe in. And I had made a comment. I said, I dated a Muslim when I was in college, and my parents were like, you should not be unequally yoked. They started quoting scripture. And I was young. I was like, whatever. But that was the one man, probably to this day that, like, loved me the most and that I just felt so loved by. And when people ask me, like, who is the one that you feel, like, just loved you the most? And I was like, it was this guy, but he was Muslim. And we didn't. When the conversation came up about having kids, it was like, are we gonna raise our kids Christian or Muslim? This is where the unequally yoke comes in. It's like, ugh. Like, I didn't want to deal with that. So we ended up breaking up. But just an amazing human being. And when I started looking at different religions, I realized that most. I feel like it was put in place for some type of structure in different regions, but also the common goal is to treat people right in most of them. And so I don't judge people for what they believe in, but I know what I believe in. And I proclaim the name of Jesus Christ. I believe he died for our sins and rose from the dead. I believe all those things. But am I wrong for, like, as Christians, like. Cause some people, like, very condemning, like, you shouldn't, like, believe in. I just feel like what you believe in is what you believe in. That's not my business. How do you feel about that?

[Nona Jones]

Yeah, no, I believe that our job is to be a witness for Jesus. And so what that means is if we get into conversations. And mind you, when I was the head of faith partnerships at Meta, I mean, I'm working with, like, Buddhist, Hindus, Muslims, Jews, like Christians. And so my respect for every person is at a human level. And when we would have conversations about belief, like, I'm. I'm unashamed to say that I'm a believer. I'm a follower of Jesus. This is the gospel. This is why I believe is not my responsibility to convince someone.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

Yes.

[Nona Jones]

That my faith is the faith. It's simply my responsibility to be a reflection of who Jesus is in the earth. I have had people of other faiths choose to follow Jesus after seeing a message that I preached or something like that. Not because I was like, you're wrong and you're going to hell if you don't believe this.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

Right?

[Nona Jones]

No, no. I'm just here to be a witness, and the Holy Spirit does the work.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Yes.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

Okay.

[Nona Jones]

That's the answer.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

I wanted to make sure I had that. Because when I said that, I was like, I hope I'm not offending anybody. Did I say that right? Because you start thinking like, we're talking about other religions, and I just don't judge anybody for what they believe. But I Know what I believe, and I love that you don't force anybody. I'm not trying to. You need to believe in Jesus.

[Nona Jones]

You're going through God. Doesn't work. I have examples, like literal examples of people in other parts of the world, Muslim majority countries, where we're like. And missionaries can't even get into these spaces to proclaim the gospel of Jesus. Where people are becoming Christians because they are being visited in their dreams.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

Wow.

[Nona Jones]

By Jesus. I have stories like that. There's a story of a woman. I forget which part of she might have been in India, living in a country where literally you will be murdered. Like, we think we get persecution because people disagree with us here in the U.S. no, no, no. You become a Christian, you die. So this woman, she was visited in her dreams by Jesus, accepts Jesus as lord of her life. She has to go to Egypt, where her sister is another Muslim majority country.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Yes.

[Nona Jones]

She has to go out of her country to another country to find a church just to worship with people. She already was. Was saved, but she had never been in a community of Christians.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Yes.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

And that's important.

[Nona Jones]

Yes. And so that's why I'm like, I don't. I don't think it's my responsibility to badger people into the faith. I just need to be a witness and be unashamed of the gospel.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

And I think that's a problem too sometimes with Christians and people who are struggling whether to believe or not is that we don't live. We're not a good witness. And we're like, you know, people are like, I don't want to have nothing to do with what y' all got going on. Y' all are judgment. None of y' all are hypocrites. Like, they don't want to be a part of it, you know, But I feel like people like us are making people's. No, this is a great community to be a part of. I want to be on Team Jesus.

[Nona Jones]

And I will say this. I have found that the most judgmental people tend to be the people that have the most to hide. The people who are like, are. Because they are reflecting.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

They are.

[Nona Jones]

Yeah.

[Host/Moderator]

On your. On your topic of, you know, the comment that you said about, you know, your ex being Muslim and you being Christian and all of that, then.

[Nona Jones]

What.

[Host/Moderator]

Are your thoughts on if she would.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

Have married that Muslim as a Christian.

[Host/Moderator]

Woman, as a Christian woman?

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

Because do you see that? I know there are people, Christians and Muslims that get married, but how does that work?

[Host/Moderator]

I know I went to my former church when I was in New York, one of the pastors married a Jewish woman and she ended up converting. And so when I hear things like that, I often think about 1st Peter 1:1 through 6. Right. Where it's like, wives, by the way of your example. Right. Let your husbands be saved.

[Nona Jones]

Essentially.

[Host/Moderator]

I'm paraphrasing. Right. And so.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

And.

[Host/Moderator]

But is it even okay. Right. To enter into a marriage as Christians with someone of a completely different belief?

[Nona Jones]

Yeah. It's. It's hard. And it's hard because you. You have to almost imagine putting yourself in his shoes. Like, let's just say that he's like, I love you. In the back of his mind, he's like, you're gonna be Muslim.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

Yep. And that's what Muslim are you thinking? She gonna convert.

[Nona Jones]

She gonna convert. It's okay. We love each other. It'll be fine. She'll convert.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

Yeah.

[Nona Jones]

And so that's. That's.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

And she's probably thinking the same thing. I can get him to convert.

[Nona Jones]

Yeah. I can get him. No, the way that I approach marriage, and this is even outside of religion, it's just in general, is you have to be able to accept the person as they are when those vows are exchanged.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Yeah.

[Nona Jones]

Without any expectation of, oh, well, they're going to change this, they're going to change that. They're going to change this. Because what you do is you set.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

Yourself up for disappointment, which is why the Bible probably says you shouldn't be unequally yelled, because he already knows the part problem is going to create.

[Nona Jones]

Yeah.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

And keep us from that.

[Nona Jones]

Listen, I will tell you, it is. It is more likely that the person won't change than that they will.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Yeah.

[Nona Jones]

The probability is higher that they won't because you married them. Right. So it's like, apparently, I'm good enough for you to marry, so why would I need to change? So that. That would be the challenge is. It's. It is hard. It can happen. It can happen. But you have to basically take religion off the table. Like, you can't even just talk about it. And that's hard. That's a big conversation to not have it.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

Is it really?

[Nona Jones]

You pray five times a day.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

Right.

[Nona Jones]

You have your seasons of the year that you have certain things you have to do. And your family is Muslim too. And now they're looking side. I had me. Because I'm not doing the whole.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Yeah.

[Nona Jones]

It's just. It's hard.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Yeah.

[Nona Jones]

My other one is.

[Host/Moderator]

Speak. Going back to the topic of judgment and things like that. How do we find the balance between not being judgmental and allowing others to, through our example, come to Jesus and see Jesus versus still having to speak truth.

[Nona Jones]

Oh, yeah.

[Host/Moderator]

Which is a big thing right now. Right. We were, you know, offline, talking about a lot of what's happening even on the pulpit right now. And so. And I know I've heard other pastors literally preach on stage against what's happening on other pulpits, which I'm like, yes, that needs to happen. Like, we continue to sweep things under the rug. And so what is the balance between the judgment and the speaking in truth and speaking up.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

I see what you're saying.

[Nona Jones]

This is a good question. Because we are absolutely called to be bearers of truth and at the exact same time and to the exact same degree, bearers of love. And what typically is missing is love.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Yep. Yep.

[Nona Jones]

Like, we are all about the truth. We'll get up there and we'll preach against what's happening at somebody's church. We haven't reached out to them. We haven't made a call. We haven't done any of that. And it's. It's really a question of motive. So my prayer every day is, lord, let the words of my mouth and the meditations of my heart be acceptable in your sight. It's the why that matters. It's the why. Am I telling you this because I want to be right, or am I telling you this because I love you so much that I want you to be right?

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

That's the difference.

[Nona Jones]

There's a huge difference. And people pick up on that. It's like, so basically, there's a difference between condemnation and conviction.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Yeah.

[Nona Jones]

In the absence of love, truth is condemnation. But when we add love to truth, it's conviction. Because. Because the thing is, it's like, okay, what you're doing is not God's best for you.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Yeah.

[Nona Jones]

It's very simple. Like, I love you so much that I want God to be best for you, and this isn't God's best for you. So I think that's the difference. It's just the love. It's like, I want. I want to see reconciliation. I want to see restoration. This isn't about, you're wrong.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

You're going to hell.

[Nona Jones]

You. This is. Oh, you know what? This isn't God's best.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Yeah.

[Nona Jones]

Let's talk about how to make sure that God's best is evident in your life. And I love you that.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

Yeah, exactly. I love that. That's good. So I want to talk about when you said that you were saved at the age of 11. But when you went home, you were still being abused as a child. How did you come to understand, this is the God that I'm growing to love, but this is what's happening at home? And because sometimes that would, like, make people lose faith. How did you keep your faith during that time?

[Nona Jones]

I was blessed to be able to be in community with the church. So my mom did not go to church with me, but, like, either my friend's mom would pick me up and take me to church or to the youth Bible, Bible studies, or the youth pastor would pick me up and his family would take me to church. And I truly believe that was my lifeline. Like, I looked forward to Wednesday nights.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Yeah.

[Nona Jones]

Because I would be in community. I knew that people would care. They would love me. I would have dinner, we would laugh, we would tell jokes and play games. And then on the drive home, my heart would just drop because it was like, here we go. You know, I never knew what I was going to walk into. My mom could be going off. Who knew what would be happening? But that was my lifeline, and that's why I'm a big believer in community. Like, when we. When we're experiencing pain, sometimes we will isolate ourselves. Yeah. And we'll be like, well, you know, I don't want people all over my business. It's like, this isn't about that. God said it is not good for man to be alone.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Yeah.

[Nona Jones]

He didn't say it's impossible. He just says not good.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Yeah.

[Nona Jones]

And so that's. That was the lifeline for me, is being in a community of people who love me and care about that made the difference, made it bearable.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

That's good. Community is very important. The people you have around you is so important. I agree. Thank you for sharing that.

[Nona Jones]

Of course.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

All right, guys, so it is time for my favorite part of the show, Positive Outcomes, where you guys write in and me and Nona are going to give you advice. Hi, Crystal. I don't know where to find my joy. I don't know the last time I had it or where I lost it. I'm looking back to see if it was a decade ago, two decades, or I just never had it. I'm turning 30 soon, and I have no real true friends, but I have been friends to many. I give, I help, I shelter, and I know I'm blessed. I find myself at an empty well, and when it fills up, even just a drop, I pour into others. So much that starts to anger me. I can't say no. I Can't not help others. But I'm drying out. I can say that when the well is at least halfway full, I'm happy with why, because I get to pour more and more. However, when it's low, I'm feeling back empty again. I know I'm blessed. They say joy comes in the morning, but I can't find it. I'm single because I'm scared of being used again, and I'm not as confident as I used to be. I stay home and work. I don't do anything outside of that, and I need to find my joy. Can you please give me some advice? Because I can't seem to get out of my own way. Well, we just talked about when people are feeling down, they like to isolate themselves, and that's. You stay at home and you work. Nona, I'm gonna get this into you because you are the expert finding joy.

[Nona Jones]

I don't know if I'm the expert, but. But I do have some thoughts.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

Okay.

[Nona Jones]

So it's. It sounds like not, you know, knowing the person.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Yeah.

[Nona Jones]

It sounds like there is almost this sense of vicarious validation in taking care of other people. It's. And what it. What it really is, when we get our sense of validation from taking care of other people, it's that we want to be needed by other people. And so when you kind of click into that, the question is, what made you feel that you were replaceable?

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Yeah.

[Nona Jones]

That you are. Are worthy of being discarded? Like, what actually happened that made you think that unless I do this, I don't. I don't matter. Like, I'm not needed.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Yeah.

[Nona Jones]

I think that there needs to be some excavation of that, because that is one of those. That's. That's like a heart setting.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Yeah.

[Nona Jones]

Which is if. If I don't do this, then I'm irrelevant. When in fact, we know that before you were formed in the womb, we know that God decided you were necessary for creation. So that's not something that I think another person's need of you can validate. That's really a decision that we have to make, is that I actually have worth, regardless of whether people feel like they need me or not. I would suggest before running into a fire to save somebody, allow them to just. Just smolder for a minute. Because what that does is that helps you to see whether or not they actually are your friend.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Wow.

[Nona Jones]

Sometimes when we show up immediately when somebody says they need us, it's almost like they become used to us and, like, what we provide, but they're not necessarily our friend. And so just listening to how she described it, it sounds like she's there for everybody else, but they're not there for her.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Yeah.

[Nona Jones]

So she's being used.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Yeah.

[Nona Jones]

And as long as you don't see the worth that you have, you will let people use you. And so I would say that there's some foundational heart work that has to take place. It's like, why do I believe that unless somebody needs me, I don't matter. Those are some questions I would have her ask herself to really get to the root of what's going on.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

That is so good. Thank you for that. You blessed me in that, too. You said something that hit home. I appreciate that. I hope that helps you. Next, we are going to do what I'm going through and what I'm growing through. And I guess we can touch on what I expressed. I am going through growing closer to God and also trying to figure out how to balance my career and my walk. So that's. But I got the answer today. I got the answer. What are you going through and growing through?

[Nona Jones]

Ooh, I think I am. Well, what I've been going through and what I'm coming out of is, as God has really blessed the ministry that I have, the enemy has been, like, attacking my marriage in very interesting ways. And this is not something we talk about, which is why I want to talk about it. Planting thoughts and seeds and imaginations. My husband and I, on a weekly basis, have to literally sit down and. And, like, talk about, okay, what are the thoughts? What are the imaginations? What are the resentments? What are the things? Like, because on a weekly basis, it's almost like. And we see it like, there's so many scandals happening and all these things happening because people get out there.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Yeah.

[Nona Jones]

And there's resentments in their marriage that are not dealt with. There's all types of things that are not dealt with. And so we sit down on a weekly basis, like, all right, what thoughts is the enemy planning in your head about me? What resentments are you holding? Vice versa. So that's going to be continual. Like, I know that. Like, as we. As the Lord continues to do what he's doing, Enlarging my territory. I know there's a target on my back.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Yep.

[Nona Jones]

The enemy would love nothing more than to create drama and chaos.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Yeah.

[Nona Jones]

So going through. That's just going to be repetitive. I know that growing through is. I am in a season of surrender, truly. You know, when I stepped off the team at youversion at the end of January of this year, I stepped into a new role, which is global ambassador. So I'm, like, representing them, but I'm not doing the day to day. That wasn't my desire. Like, I loved what I was doing. I loved the team I was leading. I loved all that. God called me away and told me that that's what he wanted. And even though I didn't understand it, as soon as I said yes, I felt peace.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Wow.

[Nona Jones]

It's like I was like, I don't. I don't want to do that. I don't think. I don't wanna. And I just had this anxiety, and it's just like, I was just anxious.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Yeah.

[Nona Jones]

As soon as I said yes, I had peace.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Wow.

[Nona Jones]

And so I'm learning surrender, like, if. If. That's why I said the question is the answer.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

Yeah, exactly.

[Nona Jones]

That's what I'm learning is, like, the fact that I have this question. That is the answer. And so I'm just like, all right, father, I'm going to surrender. Whatever you choose to do, wherever you call me, if you say no to this thing that I have my heart set on, the answer's no. If you say yes to this thing I want to do, the answer is yes. That's what I'm growing through.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

I love that. That's so good. All right, we're going to end the show with keep it blank, sweetie. And for this one, I'm going to say. I'm gonna take the it out and say keep that discernment, sweetie.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Yeah.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

Because. Yeah. What is your fill in the blank? Or keep it Blake, sweetie.

[Nona Jones]

Oh, man. I would say keep it fun, sweetie.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Yeah.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

I love that. Keep it fun, sweetie.

[Nona Jones]

Just be too serious sometimes. We do Keep it fun.

[Pastor Darius McClure]

Yeah.

[Nona Jones]

Enjoy life.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

I love it.

[Nona Jones]

Shorter than we think.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

I love it. Nona, thank you so much. Thank you, guys. I hope you enjoyed this episode. If you want to write into our open listener letter, please write into keepitpositivesweetiemail.com that is sweetie with an ie. If you want to follow me, tap in @lovechristorenee on Instagram and all the platforms. Nona, tell the people where they can find you.

[Nona Jones]

You can find me on all the platforms at Nonanot. Nora. I am not Norah Jones. Even though if you look me up in Google, I will have her net worth. I am not a grammy award singer. So songwriter at Nona, not Nora or Nona Jones Dot com.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

I love it. Thank you so much. All right, guys, in the meantime, in between time, you know what to do. Keep it positive, sweeties. See y' all next time.

[Nona Jones]

Father, we're so grateful to be here this morning, God, we just thank you for the gift of life, the miracle of life. Recognizing that there were many people who laid down last night, God, with a full agenda today, Father, and they did not wake up. So we just thank you, Lord, for the gift of life. I'm grateful for this moment, Father, that we are gathered here to have this conversation. I pray that you will lead it and I pray for everyone who will watch it. God. May they receive encouragement, Father. May they even have answers to questions that they've had in their heart. Maybe they've been wrestling with insecurity. Maybe they've been wrestling with discouragement and doubt. Father I pray that they would receive those answers, Lord, and that their hearts would be turned toward you. I also pray, God, for this entire team, God recording it, God editing it. I pray, God that you will bless the work of their hands and their hearts and continue to favor this podcast cuz it's a ministry, God, it is a ministry. I pray it will go forth in your name. We pray your name, Jesus name.

[Krystal Renee Hayslett]

Amen.

[Nona Jones]

It.