Wisdom Gained from Relationships, Love and Lust w/ Josh Powell

Summary

Podcast Summary: Keep it Positive, Sweetie

Episode: Wisdom Gained from Relationships, Love and Lust w/ Josh Powell
Date: February 13, 2024
Host: Crystal Renee Hayslett (A)
Guest: Josh Powell (B), former NBA player, author, podcast host

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Overview

This episode explores the profound wisdom that comes from navigating relationships, love, lust, trauma, and personal growth. Former NBA champion Josh Powell joins Crystal Renee Hayslett for an unfiltered conversation about breaking generational cycles, healing from difficult pasts, and striving toward authenticity and accountability—in romance, family, and community. The dialogue offers rare vulnerability, insight into Black family dynamics, and touches on faith, fatherhood, and breaking the silence around trauma.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Athlete Archetype & Breaking Stereotypes

[01:19 – 05:29]

• Josh discusses how people expect athletes, particularly those who “look the part,” to fulfill certain stereotypes, especially around relationships.
• He emphasizes his commitment to personal growth and service:
  “I really want to make an impact each and every day and continue to grow and get better. So, you know, I feel like, you know, I’m trying my best to right my wrongs…” [01:41]
• Crystal shares her own negative experiences dating athletes and opens a broader talk about understanding the backgrounds that shape young men.

2. Upbringing, Family Dynamics, and Early Trauma

[05:29 – 14:30]

• Josh’s book, What I Wish I Knew, is praised for its candidness about his upbringing and darkness.
• He recounts instability (being passed among mother, aunt, grandparents), moving with the flow, and foundational church experiences.
• Josh reveals exposure to abuse, including sexual abuse by “relatives”—intentionally left anonymous to protect their identities—even though it involved more than one person.
• The difficulty of acknowledging and processing trauma in Black communities is discussed: “Trauma is happening, abuse is happening…we don’t talk about it. We just sweep it under the rug…it’s so scary.” [06:29]

3. Normalizing Dysfunction and Concealing Pain

[14:30 – 19:49]

• Sexual abuse was normalized for Josh; he only recognized it as abuse in therapy, three years ago during his divorce process.
• He describes early oversexualization, normalizing sleeping with older women as a teenager, and functioning (high grades, sports success) while hiding turmoil—“how we’ve normalized dysfunction.” [17:18]

4. Relationships, Monogamy, and Fidelity

[18:09 – 26:56]

• Josh explains how early trauma and dysfunctional examples shaped his views on sex and loyalty.
• He openly discusses the ongoing struggle with monogamy and owning his desires: “I still don’t think I have a problem…I acknowledge. I understand, I get it. But I’ve moved past that.” [18:23 – 19:03]
• He notes efforts to “subscribe” to monogamy out of commitment to his current relationship and faith, but acknowledges ongoing difficulty.

5. Healing, Faith, and Community

[23:53 – 27:29]

• Healing is a combination of “this is who I am” and dedicated self-work—prayer, reading, involvement in a unique church community (including a belief in “Heavenly Mother” and New Testament practices).
• For the first time in church, he witnessed truly monogamous men and women.
• Powell underscores the vital importance of supportive community, accountability, and peers who uplift and hold each other to higher standards.

6. Accountability, Transparency, and Suffering in Silence

[28:06 – 38:32]

• Powell encourages young men (and women) to practice self-forgiveness and radical accountability: “Just own it. If you make a decision, own it…That’s your power.” [29:05 – 29:14]
• Social media’s role in masking pain and promoting false images of happiness is discussed, as is the danger of not feeling safe or free enough to share personal struggles with partners.
• “We have people that want to portray perfection, and it's dangerous.” [37:53]

7. Fatherhood, Generational Patterns & Shedding Guilt

[40:38 – 46:38]

• Josh is candid about the pain and complexity of his relationships with his children, especially being estranged from his 17-year-old daughter: “If I’m so amazing [a father], then why does my 17-year-old not talk to me? …There’s a disconnect.” [41:36]
• He explains the weight of guilt, moments of numbness from repeated trauma, and the challenge of knowing when to let a child forge their own path.
• Emotional honesty becomes a marker of progress:
  “When I wrote this book…the way things come out…and there’s no—nothing. That was the first time you felt something. ... it felt good.” [44:47 – 45:00]

8. Co-Parenting, Healing Siblings, and Not Projecting Regret

[46:51 – 48:02]

• Absence of one child affects their siblings:
  “We as adults gotta think about the things we doing when we get children involved in adult business.” [47:26]
• He urges against conflating roles—a poor partner doesn’t equal a bad parent.

9. Privacy, Marriage, and Navigating Public Life

[48:42 – 55:37]

• Josh shares his reason for privacy about his recent marriage—past betrayals by those who should have been supportive.
• “Who do you turn to for the good news?” [49:32]
• Addresses public perceptions, social media appearances of relationships, and the value of moving authentically without outside approval.

10. First Dates, Simplicity, and the True Test of Compatibility

[55:37 – 59:28]

• Josh calls the viral “list of places women refuse to go for first dates” “pure silliness,” favoring genuine connection over spectacle: “If you truly rocking with somebody…y’all should be able to do the smallest things. The place to eat has nothing to do with anything.” [56:02]
• Recounts simple, heartfelt early dates with his wife—Waffle House, movies, and hanging out with friends.
• Advocates for therapy sessions as first dates to quicken emotional intimacy.

11. Healing Practices & Affirmations

[61:28 – 62:49]

• Josh keeps written affirmations in his toiletry bag, reading them daily as reminders of worth and to reinforce self-love in the journey toward healing: “I know my value and worth and my decisions reflect self love.” [61:49]
• Emphasizes the longing for acknowledgment and love from family over public praise.

12. Listener Letter: Relationship Ultimatums

[62:58 – 66:56]

• Listener Sherry seeks advice about her 8-year relationship without talk of marriage.
• Both Crystal and Josh advise against ultimatums, instead emphasizing self-prioritization, direct communication, and avoiding regret: “Regret is a silent killer.” [64:23]
• Josh shares personal experience leaving a long marriage for personal growth and warns not to teach children to settle.

13. Mutual Support, Encouragement, and Accountability

[67:43 – 70:00]

• Crystal shares her ongoing journey healing childhood trauma and affirms that everyone faces heavy seasons that eventually pass.
• Josh gives impactful, supportive feedback, highlighting Crystal’s healing work and encouraging ongoing growth: “The hardest job that we don’t receive enough appreciation for [is] facing you.” [69:11]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Accountability and Transparency:
  “Just own it. If you make a decision, own it…Because that’s your power.” — Josh [29:05]
  “I give zero Fs…because I’ve been drawn through the mud by the closest people to me. So why would I worry about what the judge would say?” — Josh [29:54]
• On Healing and Affirmations:
  “I know my value and worth and my decisions reflect self love.” — Crystal quoting Josh’s book [61:49]
  “I read these affirmations. It takes probably 45 seconds…Because I’m human. Sometimes I don’t feel loved or respected…But I can speak to that because I go through my battles too.” — Josh [61:49]
• On Fatherhood and Guilt:
  “Why does my 17-year-old not talk to me? Why does she have a level of hatred towards me…There’s a disconnect.” — Josh [41:36]
  “That guilt, that burden was heavy…so I’m hoping…the more conversations I can have, that tears will actually flow, which will probably be another chapter, another level of healing.” — Josh [45:24]
• On Private Partnership:
  “Who do you turn to for the good news?” — Josh [49:32]
• On Settling vs. Growth in Relationships:
  “Regret is a silent killer…please don’t allow…the fact that you have those children to stop you from where you need to go.” — Josh [64:23]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 01:19 — Josh discusses stereotypes and service.
• 05:29 — Crystal and Josh dive into childhood, family shifts, and church upbringing.
• 09:44 — Josh acknowledges it wasn't one abuser, but multiple.
• 12:21 — Realization in therapy about abuse:
  “First time I understood I was sexually abused was three years ago in a therapy session...”
• 17:18 — “How we've normalized dysfunction.”
• 19:49 — Efforts at monogamy, ongoing struggle.
• 23:53 — Self-care, faith, and communal accountability.
• 29:05 — “Just own it. If you make a decision, own it.”
• 37:53 — The danger of perfectionism in relationships.
• 41:36 — On being estranged from his daughter.
• 44:47 — “That was the first time you felt something...and it felt good.”
• 47:26 — On adult business impacting children.
• 49:32 — The pain of betrayed trust and privacy in marriage.
• 56:02 — “This is pure silliness…” (on first date locations).
• 61:49 — Daily affirmations and self-worth.
• 64:23 — “Regret is a silent killer.”
• 69:11 — Facing oneself is the hardest job.
• 70:31 — Josh: “Keep fighting. Yeah, keep fighting for you.”

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Takeaway: Tone & Language

• The tone is unguarded, empathetic, direct, and generous. Both host and guest model vulnerability, honesty, and a nonjudgmental attitude.
• The discussion is rich with personal stories, spiritual reflection, and practical advice—all circling back to the healing mission of the podcast.

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Conclusion

This episode of Keep it Positive, Sweetie is a masterclass in courageous honesty. Josh Powell’s journey from trauma and secrecy to radical self-awareness is both affirming and challenging, offering a powerful invitation for listeners to break cycles, confront their pain, and invest in their own healing. The message is clear: Keep evolving, keep forgiving, keep fighting—for you.

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For more, follow @keepitpositivesweetie and pick up Josh Powell’s book, "What I Wish I Knew: Wisdom Gained from Relationships, Love & Lust."

Transcript

[A]

Hi, guys, and welcome to this episode of Keep It Positive, Sweetie. Today we are talking about what I Wish I Knew with Josh Powell. Josh, thank you so much for coming today.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

I've known you through mutual friends for years, but we've never spoken. It's always been kind of in passing. But recently, a friend of mine and her boyfriend went to your book signing event.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And she called me and she goes, could we go to church together? And she goes, yeah. She's like, my boyfriend asked me to come to this book signing. And she's like, I didn't think it was gonna be anything special. And she said, girl, it was the most amazing different book signing that I've ever been to in my life. And she talked about how you spoke about relationships and did an open apology to women that you may have mistreated or that you felt were owed an apology in your past. And she's like, it was the most beautiful thing ever. And a day later, I get an email from your team to come on your podcast, Relationships Matter. And when I realized it was you, I said, hey, is this the same guy? She goes, yeah. I said, we need to get him on. Keep it positive, sweetie. So it all worked out. I'm excited to do your podcast as well.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

Cannot wait. But thank you so much for coming.

[B]

Thank you.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

And it's funny because it's kind of like one of those things. Things like, what's an athlete gonna talk about in regards to relationships? And that's the thing that I. That I love about this platform is just being able to show that different side. Because when you see me, you know, you see an athlete, you see a guy with just all these tattoos and da, da, da, da. And it's like, man, what he gonna be talking about?

[A]

Right?

[B]

And being in this place and space that I'm in right now, just service. That's it. Like, I really want to make an impact each and every day and continue to grow and get better. So, you know, I feel like, you know, I'm trying my best to right my wrongs, even though that's impossible for any of us to do. But I do try to make the effort. So I really do appreciate, you know.

[A]

Being here with you. Some people don't even try to make amends.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So the fact that you have the awareness, and I know that's come with the work that you've done, and we'll get into the work that you've done. Absolutely, we're going to get into all that. But for the audience and members who do not know. Josh, you are a former NBA player, you're a league champ, big three, co captain of the killer threes in 2023.

[B]

Shout out to my set.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

And then most recently, you're a podcast host of Relationships Matter. And now you're the author of what I Wish I Knew Wisdom. The wisdom gained from relationships, love and lust.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

When I think I always either open up with a quote or with a song. And when I think about what we're talking about today is the saying that we've always heard is if I knew then what I know now, I would have done things differently. And that's what I think about. Based on the topics that we're going to touch on today.

[B]

Absolutely, yeah.

[A]

Speaking of athletes, I've dated an athlete or two in my life and it has not been the best experience to a point where I'm like, you know what? I don't wanna do this anymore. I'm good. And I think a lot of times we don't understand, just like you, what those young men and little boys went through that made them who they are today.

[B]

I'm glad you brought that up because I definitely. And I think this might be the first time that I've actually gotten a chance to like, speak to that. Because it's not, it's not necessarily like an athlete thing, but when you look at young men who are groomed, you know, or bred to be in baseball, football, basketball or whatever, you know, the exposure to things, you know, some of the experiences that we face, and then don't you be one of those ones that have the opportunity to make it. Because now it's not just your peers. That's not the damaging part. It's the adults, it's the family, it's the friends, it's the coaches, it's all of these people that have access to you that kind of sort of allow the behavior, you know, that women who are on the other side of it experience. When you meet this guy that you like, I'm attracted to and he plays this sport or he does this thing and then it's like, I tried it with an athlete and I'm not going there. It's like, nah, he's a human being.

[A]

First you have to look at him. Yes.

[B]

But he has experienced so many different things that have shaped and molded his way of thinking. So to try to break that, you talking about somebody that's probably been doing something for 10 plus years, you know, even if you start young, right? So if you date them or meet them at 30, then if they started at 10, that's 20 years of being shaped and molded. So I just think Grace, absolutely, one of my favorite words is so important. And the issue that we have is just amongst men and women, you know what I mean? Because understanding that so much happens before we meet the person, and we have to be willing to peel those layers off first in order to get into a healthier space and place presently or how we move forward.

[A]

Absolutely. That's so good. I opened up your book. I tried to order it, but it wasn't going to be here in time. So I took this from my good friend, and as you can see, I've got every, like, literally every page. I was like, oh, another gem, another nugget. Like, it was so much in this book. And I'm seriously, guys, you definitely need to get it. But one thing like that immediately drew me in was your upbringing. Like, from that intro got me darkness. I was in a chokehold. That's how you got to start it. That was good. Because people, we've all lived that. I think that's the one thing that we all have in common. No matter how we try to suppress it or push it back, we've all had that darkness. And I think as a community for blacks, we definitely have been taught and basically, race. Don't talk about it. Move on. It never happened. And we've literally been molded to just push things aside.

[B]

And that's the thing that I feel is so.

[A]

Because.

[B]

And it's not a black thing, but I know we definitely experience it in our community. But it's the secrecy. It's the fact that trauma is happening, abuse is happening. You know, things that are hurtful to young men, young women. And we don't talk about it. We always just sweep it under the rug. Oh, that's your business. It ain't mine. And that's so scary.

[C]

It is.

[B]

And then me as a father now, when I think of who would my kid run into. And we have a responsibility, if we're talking community, in order for us to have the proper conversations and to be able to communicate these different things. Because, you know, I want my kids especially to be able to stand on business and to communicate if they feel that they're uncomfortable, if there's something that's going on or whatever. But also, too, any chance that I get to speak at a school, any chance that I get to talk to a young athlete, I share with them, like your responsibility. Because if you bump into my daughter, you better do right, bro.

[C]

Period.

[B]

Respectfully, like Be the example. You know what I mean? That doesn't mean everything's gonna be peachy King, or heartbreak won't happen, but it's a way you go about it. It's the fact that some of the hurt and pain that we're causing doesn't necessarily have to happen.

[A]

That's so true. That is so true. And I like the way you wrote this because you started us from the beginning. And I want to kind of take the audience through that without telling too much, because I want you guys to read this, but you started because I think what you did was brilliant, because you helped us to understand Josh, the man who you were as you evolved, versus just like, this is what happened and then or this is how I turned out. Now we know the reason behind it, and it's much deeper than that. You said that your mother and father separated, and you ended up moving with her, and then she couldn't really take care of you, so you moved with your aunt. And then from your aunt, your grandparents came, but you never felt like you were being shuffled. It was just kind of like, okay, this is just what it is.

[B]

Forward with the flow.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And seems kind of like that's your energy still to this day. Just go with the flow. I kind of feel that.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And I saw that. And then your grandparents raised you in the church, so. So you had an early foundation, which is very important. And I feel like when people are rooted in that, they always eventually come back to that, which we end up finding out that you did. But what I found so interesting was the dysfunction once your parents decided to move on to their respective spouses, and you being implanted in those situations and how it just completely turned your world upside down to the point where you ended up pulling a gun, actually pulling trigger on your brother, stepbrother, to being sexually abused by a step cousin who was a lot older than. We're not blood related. And I've heard so many stories like that.

[B]

So to address that, to kind of spare people from some of the people that did it. That's why I specifically just said a relative. Not who.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

Or whom.

[C]

Whom.

[B]

Because it was more than one.

[A]

Stop it.

[B]

Yeah, it was more than one. And I just tried to be very strategic in how do I communicate these things that are going on.

[A]

It's hard when you were the one that was hurt, but you still trying to protect the people that did it.

[B]

Because the thing that I have to answer to now, like, for example, my mother knew nothing about this. Me and my mom had a conversation about it maybe like three years ago, four years ago.

[C]

Oh, my goodness.

[B]

And just kind of speaking to a lot of my experiences. And it's just really important to get into that place and space where you can. So when I was writing this. Right. Depending on who picks this up, even my kids, I have a responsibility. And that's the thing. Like, I tried to be very strategic on the intro and not go too deep because there's so much that I left out.

[A]

I could tell.

[B]

So if you felt that way just about that.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Cause I.

[B]

It's a lot that's left out. And, you know, I'm not mad at those people. I'm not. I don't have anything in my heart. And that's why I was trying to share with people the overall. So I wanted to go dark.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Because I feel like that's one of the things that allows us to make excuses for the behavior. Men and women. Right.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Is they don't confront the trauma. So it's just tucked. And this is just me. This is the way that I am. And it's not true. So I felt like if I can show you and put myself in your shoes, then I could be that example of, well, if he can do that, then I should be able to do that.

[A]

Absolutely. That's so good. It's crazy. You say that I had a guest on recently, a good friend of mine who was sexually abused by family members as well. And to see where she is now and to have the heart. Posture of forgiveness and how you say the same thing. Like, I don't have any ill will towards these people. You know, you've forgiven them and moved past. Takes a lot for a person to know that as a child in such an innocent phase of your life, that you were taken advantage of.

[B]

So let me say this, and I'm glad you brought that up. Cause I didn't address this at the book signing because it was the way the conversation was flowing. But I want to address it. In some situations, there might be an understanding that it's wrong in my situation. I thought this was what everybody was doing.

[A]

Right?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

That's what you said.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So I just felt like this was just a normal thing. And we don't talk about it. We just keep it moving. And then when you get way older or something comes up. And then, you know, like, even today, the conversations that I'm having is like, some of the guys that are opening up to me about the things that have happened to them, Whether it's been because I've been Open because of the book or whatever. And it's just like, yo, it's not normal.

[A]

It's not.

[B]

You know what I'm saying? Like, the first time I understood that I was sexually abused was three years ago in a therapy session. And when I was getting ready to go through, you know what I'm saying, my divorce at the time, like, I said, you know what? When I get back out here, I gotta start over. I gotta peel back these layers. I gotta figure out me. Like, I understand or I feel I do, but let me figure out what's really going on in my spirit. And I was telling her, I'll never forget, man. I was telling her, like, a lot of the things that had happened. Because in that session, I was naming names. I was naming. Like, I still remember because you have.

[A]

To be open and very, very vivid.

[B]

Like, I still remember to this day. I don't miss details, nothing. I know who, I know when, I know what, I know all the things that happen as the start.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And she let me get it out. And then she just looked at me and she said, do you realize you were sexually abused? And I paused, and it was like the emotion that came, but nothing came out because I was super confused. And I looked at her and I didn't say nothing for probably like 10 minutes.

[C]

Mm.

[B]

Cause I didn't. I didn't understand it. Like, not that it was something hard to comprehend, but I just. For me, it was so normalized. Like, the things that had happened started from the age of nine, 10, right. That just kept going, you know, and, you know, it was just. It was just. It was just crazy. Like, even now, just thinking about that therapy session, it was just. That was heavy. That was a real heavy day. Real heavy day.

[A]

I can't even imagine. I can't. I've talked to friends who same had therapy and realized that they had been sexually abused. And a lot of times at a young age, same situations where it was like, step cousins, that we're not blood related, or this is just what you do. And she said, my friends have said that we didn't realize this is what was happening. It's like your body's growing. You're like, oh, this feels good. Or I kind of like that. I don't know if it's supposed to like that. And I don't know. I'm not supposed to be liking it with you, you know, and you go through things and then you realize at an older age that was not normal and it wasn't right. And it just breaks My heart. Because people who know better, you know, should not do that, you know, should not prey on younger people. You talked about how when you got into basketball, that's when you. It's like your first crush, you know, falling in love with the game of basketball.

[B]

It was the og. And again, when we talk about community and we talk about certain things, these are like, this is the way it was, I'm sure, taught to him. And then it's just passed down. And I remember, like, we would go play games on the weekends, and it would just be like, drop him off here. He don't need nothing. We'll take care of everything. And we would go practice, we would hit them clubs. We was doing everything at this point.

[A]

You were like a junior in high school. How old were you at this point? Yeah.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So I was like 15, 16.

[A]

And I couldn't even get out the house at 16. And my parents had me. Couldn't even go to sleepovers. Like, nothing. Like, it was very straight tone.

[B]

Yeah. I left the names of the locations, but I. For sure we would. I mean, grown women, that's like our age now. Like, I was having sex with and, you know, receiving different pleasures from. So I was experiencing so much. And by the time I get back to school on Monday, I'm going to sleep in class, they looking at me.

[A]

Like, like, what you been doing? Right?

[B]

And I'm like, bro, you wouldn't even believe it if I told you.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You know what I mean? But to me, again, this is what we supposed to do. I don't know nothing different.

[A]

Right?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I was 26 in my class.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

3.7 GPA.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Super smart.

[B]

I was still called lazy. I did handle business on the court, you know what I mean? So it's like nobody. People don't realize how we're functioning, you know, how we've normalized dysfunction.

[C]

Wow.

[B]

And that was me now looking back.

[A]

At it, you know?

[B]

And then I had the situation with the fallout with my stepdad at the time.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And, you know, a lot of people didn't know that I was homeless for.

[A]

Like a year when you said that.

[B]

Yeah. Cause I was just bouncing around, trying to find a place to go. It was a lot. It was a lot. And I was still hooping. I was still, like. I would just show up, like, nothing. Because, again, this is how I've been grown. Like, you don't make no excuses. You can't be emotional. You can't. Like, you just. This is life and this is what we do, you know? So it's just being able to go through it. And the blessing in that is I still kind of operate like that today, but I try to address.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

The different areas in my life to overcome and to be better.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I love that. At what point in your various relationships did you realize I have a problem? Like, that you had been over sexualized at a young age and that you were. Everything was just a physical transaction at one point. At what point were you like, okay.

[B]

You know what's scary is I still don't think I have a problem. Wow. I asked my therapist, I said, I understand. You explained what happened to me. Right. And it's traumatic. Am I this way because of the trauma? Am I this way because I really like it now, or is it both?

[A]

I think it could be both, honestly. And there's no judgment in that, you know?

[B]

No, absolutely. But for me, I feel like, okay, I acknowledge. I understand, I get it. But I've moved past that. And then I really do feel this way about relationships.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So that's always my thing too, because on the flip side, let's remove the trauma now. Let's go to the experiences. So let's look at this box. And if I'm seeing everybody that's in my circle or their people or whomever, nobody's being faithful. Nobody's moving, you know, according to what the monogamous standard is male and female. I guess this is life and how it's supposed to be. So then there's that transition.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And then here we are today.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Where are we today?

[B]

Where we are today is I still believe the way that I believe, but I subscribe to the best of my ability to the monogamous channel.

[A]

Is it hard for you?

[B]

Absolutely.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Because your desires are, like, super strong. Yeah, absolutely. The fact that you can even own up to that is powerful in itself, because some people don't even have the awareness to be like, this is who I am. This is me.

[B]

But finding the person, you know? Cause even with my old lady now, like, I've caused pain and hurt, and she may never look at me the same way she did when I first met her.

[C]

Mm. Yeah.

[B]

So that's a. That's a burden that I got to carry.

[A]

How do you, like, every day, what do you do to try to make that writer kind of mend those wounds with her?

[B]

I don't ever try to really. My belief system is the more I continue to grow and work on me, then it'll manifest in the areas of my life.

[A]

That's true. Because she'll see the change, at least, I hope.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Because the other part to that is not saying her, but maybe in other situations, somebody can carry. They can carry that pain and treat you as such, and then that's why grudges are formed.

[A]

Yes. Yes.

[B]

So it doesn't matter. I just heard a story the other day about a gentleman that loves his wife and feels like that's his person, and he made one decision. Right. He stepped out of their relationship. You know, that decision, mistake, whatever, whoever. Well, if you would've. You know, so we get into that. But the point is, he made the decision that he made, and it has now probably cost him because she can't get over that. She can't get over it. So understanding that level of pain that you cause to people, you know, I get it.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

But at the same time, you know, I know what I come from, and I know my background, and it's not my intention. So I know, you know, you talked about earlier, like, the. The me asking for forgiveness at the event.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And it was to do, like, two things. It was one, acknowledging, like, even to most people, it's like, man, you're healed and you're this and you're that. And I'm like, you might think that, but I'm still not everybody's cup of tea. So let me say that first.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

But then also, too, let me take the time for those people that I have hurt.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

It wasn't intentional, but I just need to own whatever I did to you. Even I'm saying my apologies at the level of. Even if I feel I didn't do something. Yes, but you're hurt and you feel upset about something. I respect that. I don't have to agree.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Which is different.

[A]

It is different.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

But I respect that. So that's a part of my ownership.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, so it's a lot of things that's going on that I have to face daily. And it's not easy, you know what I'm saying? Like, it's not easy for me to feel the way that I feel or try to suppress or do whatever it is that I'm doing. But I do understand, you know, the bigger picture, you know, for example, and I try to just stick to that.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So that's my struggle. It's a serious struggle.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I can imagine. Is there anything that. What do you do for Josh daily to make sure that you continue to evolve in your healing process? What do you do? Is there anything you do to try to suppress those urges or feelings? Or I know you said, now you meditate, you do yoga, you take time for yourself, or do you feel like, hey, this is who I am and this is what it is.

[B]

It's both.

[C]

It's both, yeah.

[B]

But I do try to pray and read more. I try to. So going back a little bit, right, the way that I was raised, I'm still Christian, but I found a new faith. And in my belief system. Right. We believe at the Church of God, for example, we believe in Heavenly Father, Heavenly Mother.

[A]

Yeah, I saw that you wrote that.

[B]

And we do all New Testament teachings, but everything that we do. Right. Is according to what the book is. So like going to church on Saturday, which is the Sabbath.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, third day for us is Tuesday. You know, we practice the Passover. We do, you know, the feast. It's just different way of moving. So in this church, you know, God bless brother David Shands, because that's who preached to me. But in this church, that was like, my first time seeing monogamous men. That was my first time seeing women who are completely monogamous.

[A]

This is your first time actually seeing examples of that?

[B]

Absolutely.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Before I knew it exists, but I just didn't see it.

[A]

Well, did you think you saw it with your grandparents?

[B]

So I got a version of it, and I love my grandparents, but then come to find out my grandfather had three other kids.

[C]

Oh, wow.

[B]

So I just met some uncles and aunts.

[A]

Are you serious?

[B]

Like, four years ago.

[A]

I feel like every family has that. Like. Yeah, this is your what?

[B]

These are the secrets and things. So that's what I'm saying. So it's like at one point in time, my vision of them was, this is the model.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And I still feel that they're the model.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

That doesn't take away from whatever he did or whatever the case may be. I'm not here to judge or none of that, but it's just, how do I view that? How do I take that? So I was saying all that to say, like, these are the reasons why I'm trying to do better now. So, like, beforehand, when I would be outside, now it's like, if I do happen to go outside, it has to be with a purpose. You know what I'm saying? Or if I am feeling the urge or, you know, feeling whatever, I'll call a brother. Now. Can we get a study in?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, can you share a scripture with me? Can you pray for me?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, or I might write a letter to God myself. And these are some of the things that help me to stay the course more. So, yeah, it's still hard because, you know, women are beautiful and attractive. Like, I see. I want. That's always been me.

[C]

Mm. Yeah.

[B]

But just. But just trying to, you know, cage that and keep doing what I'm doing is what I give my effort to.

[A]

So I guess you would say, like, going to this church is helping you stay on the right path. If the people that you're calling now is like, hey, you guys hold each other accountable.

[B]

It's that and it's just being around good brothers. And I think that's important too. Cause I do got other brothers that aren't a part of the church that are just solid, and we hold each other accountable. You know what I'm saying? I think that's super important. We need community.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

I don't think we understand how important community is. Whether it's relationship, whether it's friendships, whether it's, you got kids, whether you're single no matter what, to have good people in your life, people that hold you accountable, people that want to continue to uplift you, make sure you're okay. That check on you, you know, it's just really important. So I can't. I. I can't stress that enough. We have to get away from feeling like, that's your business, that's your life. If you love somebody and you care about them, they should be just as much a part of yours as you should be of theirs.

[A]

That's so true. I love that. If you were to speak to young men today who are maybe struggling with monogamy or struggling with their own past traumas, what advice would you give them?

[B]

Well, first, forgive yourself. Like, it's okay. That's a great question, by the way. But I think that one of the most powerful things you can do is accountability. So when I wrote this boat, wrote this book, I took the eight mile approach. I literally thought about the scene with Eminem and Papa Dot and him figuring out as he's moving round to round to round, and then getting to the final. Like, how am I gonna approach this situation?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And for him, it was. I know what I can address. That removes power from anything that you're gonna say.

[C]

Wow.

[B]

And I feel like in this day and age, you make a mistake, just own it.

[C]

Mm.

[B]

If you make a decision, own it.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Right. Wrong, Indifferent. Because that's your power. It's yours to have.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I'll be the first to say, I don't do everything right. I don't queen. And I'm forever Trying to grow past that, you know? But I'm a man, and I'mma own it, and I'm a stand on it.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And I hope that that's something that encourages men, young men, women, young women to just hold yourself accountable. When we get into trouble, it's like the embarrassment. We don't want people to think some way about us or. Oh, you're judging me. Listen, man.

[A]

Cause it's a judgy world. We live in a very judgy world.

[B]

That's so pat right there. I told you I was coming to it. I give zero Fs, you know, I'm saying that respect. I am not worried about what nobody says about me. How you think about me. No, none of that. Cause the reason being right, is I done been drawn through the mud by the closest people to me. So why would I worry about what the judge would say?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Why would I worry about what the teachers or the coaches or the family or other friends? Like? It doesn't. Because some of the things that I've seen and witnessed, like, my experience is crazy. Wow.

[A]

Do you feel like you would ever open up fully about everything you've been through, or you thought this is maybe just breaking the tip of the iceberg and that you may eventually, like, share everything? I'm not gonna lie. When I watch this. I mean, when I watched it. See. Cause when I read this, I felt.

[B]

Like I was watching when the camera's cut. I got you.

[A]

Okay. I literally was like, this could be a movie. Like. Cause I could tell there was more. I was like, there's so much more to this than we're getting told right now.

[B]

You know, What I wanted to do was create the conversation.

[A]

Well, you started it.

[B]

Because I study what other people do. I really am a student. Like, I want to. I'm watching how people are going about their life stories. I'm watching how people are talking about their relationships and doing this and doing that. And so many people are either secretive or private. And I get it. I get it. I'm not here to say that I don't understand. But when we talk about healing and when we talk, like, if we have a platform, you know, my platform, you know what I'm saying? You know, the 24,000 people that follow me for whatever reason in the minute, you know, that see me on other platforms, I always have a responsibility, no matter where I'm at or what I'm doing. So I try to just be the example of that.

[A]

That's amazing.

[B]

You know, and for me, what other Way are we gonna heal if you don't speak to it? I know pain when I see it. I walk by it every day. I see broken people, hurt people, you know, people that are suffering from trauma and all that. I see it. I feel it. Even when you smile, I'm like, big dog, come talk to me, man. What you got going on? Yeah, I am you queen. What you. That ain't you. Come here. Let me talk to you.

[C]

Wow.

[B]

Lesbian. Because it ain't no way. I remember in my dating stages after my divorce, I was having a conversation with this young lady, beautiful young lady, and we were talking about and breaking down so many different things. So I expressed. Because I was like, I didn't do it. My first go around. I'm gonna be honest. I'm gonna do it this go around, I was like, listen, I'm into polygamy. Like. Like, that's my thing.

[A]

One is not enough. I need multiple.

[B]

So she said, well, what if I did it?

[C]

Ooh.

[B]

And I said, that's good. If that's on your spirit, let's talk about it. But don't say you gonna do something to see or get a reaction out of me if you not about that life.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

She just wanted to know, like, how would you feel if I did it?

[B]

Yeah, we different. But if you want to have this conversation, then let's have it. It's worth a conversation. I'm not gonna sit up here and shut down anything or however we moving.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

But let's have the conversation. That's me. I was a fool for it before, suppressing and not talking. And maybe a part of that was I didn't quite understand it. So out of fairness, I'll throw that in there too. But I feel that we all should have real transparent conversations about who we are, what we want, what our expectations are, you know, the things that we would like to see, what our visions are.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, all of these different things, because that'll help you where you're trying to go in regards to your personal relationships, business, friendships, whatever ships you got going on in your life that'll help you establish better foundations across the board.

[A]

I love that. Now, have you let go completely of the idea of polygamy now? I know now you're really geared towards monogamy. He just looked at me like, girl, like, is that still a thought? Or are you like, I'm cool with one person now?

[B]

So as heartfelt as I can say this, because of my belief system, I have to change my thought process. I have to change My behaviors and I have to really grow and conform to things the way that God wants.

[A]

That's so good. But in the New Testament, if you live out the New Testament, The New Testament, they had different wives. I'm just saying.

[B]

I know we hear the stories, but also, too, at the end of the day, there's a reason why the system was designed the way that it was. And to be honest, the stories that are in the Bible go to show and lead us for the things that we deal with today. So it's already happened.

[A]

Yeah. Everything's just.

[B]

That's why the body, everything just repeats itself. So for those that think a certain way, it's like, we can go to this book, show this version of the person that did what they did and.

[A]

Make it up there.

[B]

And then they can say at the end of the day, when it's time to go back to heaven, none of this.

[A]

Yeah, right.

[B]

Because when you get to that point, you got your brothers and you got your sisters.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

You know what I'm saying? We ain't supposed to be on none of that. We. We all one big family.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So for me, that's really. My main focus, is to try to live according to that, and hopefully that helps me to continue to grow and to change a lot of my behaviors.

[A]

That's good.

[B]

You know what I mean? But on the flip side, I still. I'll tell you now, I would scream it to whomever any other time if it wasn't for my spirit and it wasn't for my belief system. I still feel the way that I feel.

[C]

Mm. Yeah.

[B]

Wow. That is really my. That is really deeply embedded in me.

[C]

Mm. Yeah.

[A]

So I know you said before, this is what you want. You wanted polygamy. Do you feel like that was a choice that you were making because it would make sense of why you felt the way you felt in needing more than one woman? Almost like this is a justification as to why I feel. So I'm gonna choose this life.

[B]

I don't. I don't wanna say it's justifiable because, you know, we still have our experiences. It's a great question. But I do think that being who we authentically are is superpower. And so many of us are subscribing to channels that we don't necessarily agree with.

[A]

True.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And we're being a representative, so I speak about that too. You know, how many people can honestly say that you feel safe in your relationship? How many men, how many women can say that you feel safe, that you can speak your mind Freely. That you can express something that is a displeasure. You know, that you can come forth about information that has been weighing heavily on you, that you need to be set free from. And not many people can say that they're doing that.

[A]

Yeah, no, that's so true. I don't.

[B]

For a young man, are you comfortable enough telling your significant other that you were molested as a child? For a young woman, do you feel comfortable telling your man that you were raped at 19? You know, do you feel comfortable telling your man that you got daddy issues and vice versa? Like, it's a long list of things that we could throw in there. But instead of doing that, we have people that want to portray perfection, and it's dangerous. And now we live in this day and age of the Internet and everything else. So we're going to do that times 10.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

We're gonna let people know, I'm happy. I'm good. Oh, that relationship is way beyond me. I'm good. Like, I ain't tripping on him. I ain't tripping on her. I didn't. I didn't get hurt. You know, I break up. They don't break up with me. Whatever it is that we want to touch on.

[A]

Yes. Our pastor literally just talked about that yesterday, and we don't even want to give people the power or the recognition of hurting us. It's like, no, I'm good. Like, I broke up with you. You didn't break up with me. Or I'm cool.

[B]

That's so silly.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, he literally just talked about that.

[B]

That's so silly. And the other part that's crazy is majority of people think that way. So that's the sad part, right? If you're a beautiful woman, how dare he break up with you? Girl, what's wrong? Do you see who you are, Right? Or, bruh, you got this bag of money. Like, how dare she treat you like bro, that's not it. Y' all ain't addressing this.

[A]

Exactly. It's deeper than that.

[B]

Y' all ain't addressing this. So even when you look at you, you get uncomfortable. Cause you know you living a lie.

[C]

Yeah, that's so true.

[B]

I sleep peacefully at night because I know that, yeah, I effed up. I said some things I probably shouldn't have said. I did some things I probably shouldn't have did. But I own that. I take full responsibility. Yeah, I've apologized, even if it ain't been the sexiest thing for me to do. If my kids look at me sometimes and be like, bro, I can't stand you. But at least you know the trut. I'd rather you know that than be having this relationship formed off of a lie or formed off of a half truth or whatever. I'd rather you know who your father is. I'd rather you know who your friend is. I'd rather you know who your son is or your cousin or whatever. Whatever I am to you.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Because I know the dangers of these fake people that come into your life.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And they come to seek. To seek and destroy. You know what I mean? And I've been dealing with that from childhood up until today.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Speaking of your children, what do you do as a father to protect them? And do you feel like a lot of things that may have happened to you are a reason why you're overprotective or. I know you said you naturally are overprotective, but, you know, some things they have to learn themselves. You can't be to overprotective, but you can't.

[B]

And it has to be tough love. And, you know, I gotta own mine because I know a lot of times people will say, man, you're such an amazing dad. You're so this and you're so that. And I always challenge those people. If I'm so amazing, then why does my 17 year old not talk to me? Why does she have a level of hatred towards me based on what this one is saying or what that one is saying? If I am who I'm supposed to be to her, then can't there be some type of foundation that she would have where, okay, even at that moment she heard something that wasn't easy to hear but that she can feel comfortable enough to come to me and say, dad, can we have a conversation?

[A]

Right. Right.

[B]

There's a disconnect.

[A]

There is.

[B]

And there are some things that I've done. And even for the things that I, that I didn't do, I'll still take responsibility for it. Because she's hurting and she's hurting because of me. I own that. I own that. And I wish there was something I could do to change it. But as much as I wanna protect her, as much as I wanna shield her, I'm gonna let her go through this process.

[C]

Yeah, I know that's not.

[B]

And it's not easy, you know what I'm saying? I'm blocked from a phone that I pay for.

[C]

Wow.

[B]

You know, my last actual sighting of her was in a courtroom and she was testifying against me. That's the last time that I pretty much Got to lay eyes on her. And then everything else has been me trying to get her on the phone or try to something. And eventually I just stopped. And some people are like, bro, you gotta keep fighting. You gotta. And it's like, listen, I can keep fighting. Right. But she's in a very different place.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So my fight could push her even further.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Especially at this age.

[B]

She already feel like, you know, she a young woman. She told me she was like, I'm different. This ain't the same old patience. Like, I'm different. And I. And I know it was hard for her to hear, but I said, I don't like this version of you. Was I right for saying that? Was I wrong for saying that? But that was on my spirit.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Because I know the young lady that I raised, and I don't need to be experiencing this new version of you.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Because this new version of you is coming from a place of hurt. And I'm not saying you wasn't hurt before, but you're definitely in a place of pain now.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

But to you, it looks like happiness. You know why? Because. Oh, I ain't around my dad no more. We good. He raised me on survival. My mom raised me from a place of love. Like. Yeah. She got me. Right.

[A]

Not him.

[B]

Wasn't nothing about his upbringing that was conducive. Like, that was in the best interest of me.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I gotta swallow that.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

When I go by, you know, I'm in my house and I go by pictures or go by a room that could be dedicated to her or whatever. Like, I constantly am reminded, and that's a deep thing to feel.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

But I'm constantly reminded, and that's where the numbness comes from.

[C]

Yeah. Oof.

[B]

So at that event, it was interesting. I was talking to. I was talking to, I think, one of my homegirls about it, but I had, like. I had felt, like, some emotion, and I was like, yo, I'm growing. Because before I was super numb.

[A]

And you feel it.

[B]

When I wrote this book, when I've done other interviews, the way things come out, and there's no. There's no. Nothing.

[C]

Mm. Mm.

[A]

That was the first time you felt something. You were like, ooh.

[B]

And it felt good. So I'm hoping that the more. The more I can express, the more, you know, conversations I can have, that tears will actually flow, which will probably be another chapter. Right. Another level of healing that I'll be able to reach. Because. Because that was the first time. It's like I got choked up because I felt myself, like, wait a minute. What's going on?

[A]

What is this?

[B]

But it was this rush of, like, it was just pain. It was all kind of things that I had felt. You know what I mean? And it happened, like, at the beginning. Cause I was thanking my brother, you know, for changing my life and being a big part of that. There was another point where, you know, my cousin. So my mom was there, my cousin was there. I had family there. And, you know, my cousin who just lost both her mom and her dad within the past year. But she talked about, like, you know, her mother that was in an abusive relationship until she passed, like her husband was abusive. And I looked at my cousin, and I was just like, the amount of pain that I felt, because it's like, you want to do something to bro, but I can't. That ain't my battle.

[C]

Yeah. Mm.

[B]

And how many of us are in situations like, you love a person, you express what you express, you be there for them. But some things people just have to go through. And I share that. To say my daughter's in a place where she got to go through whatever it is that she got to go through.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm not carrying that guilt no more. Yeah, that. That guilt. That burden was heavy.

[A]

I can imagine.

[B]

It was really heavy.

[A]

How does that affect your other children? Do you make sure you're present and that you don't let that relationship with her tarnish your relationship with him?

[B]

Well, that relationship, there's a lot of things that have affected so many things in all of their lives. Because my oldest daughter, who's with my ex wife, like, she's hurt. She lost her sister.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

They were close in age. She's 14. She's about to be 15 next month. But, you know, that was always her big sister. Like, they talked, they kicked it, they vibed.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And now she don't have that. So we as adults gotta think about the things that we doing when we get children involved in adult business.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Ooh. That's real, too.

[B]

And my story is a product of that. Me as a man, I may not have been the best partner, but don't let that get in the way of me being a fool. That's separate and apart.

[A]

Yep. Yep.

[B]

Too many times women treat men the same. You wasn't a bad. You wasn't a good husband or a good partner or a good boyfriend. So you're a terrible father, too, and vice versa. And it's not fair.

[A]

It's not fair.

[C]

Yeah. No.

[A]

For sure.

[B]

So I have to. I have to Deal with that.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I'm sorry. And I'm definitely going to pray for her because I know what it's like to be in a lost state at a young age, and you think that everything is fine until you hit that wall, you know, and eventually it's gonna happen. You talked about privacy earlier. You're super private about your personal life. My team tried to. We tried to find out everything we could, and they were like, we just can't find. We just. We literally, after all the digging, allow. He's actually married. How long have you. I know you got divorced three years ago, so.

[B]

I got divorced five years ago.

[A]

Five years ago. Okay. So you're recently married. How's that going?

[B]

Been married a year.

[A]

A year. Okay. Working through it.

[B]

Even when we got it done, like, nobody knew we got married.

[C]

Nothing.

[A]

Why are you so private?

[B]

I don't think it's intentional. I think that I know based on my experiences, it always weighs on me because people that I thought would be happy for me or be supportive or love me have done the most damage.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

So you want to protect me. So I've.

[B]

Now. I don't even view it as that. That's what I'm saying. Like, I'm having, like. I wish she could be here right now to hear this, because it's like. This is another thing of my thought process, because it's not that it's like. It's this secret, but it's like, who do you turn to for the good news?

[C]

Mm.

[A]

I've been through that.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

My mom was the only person that was a part of that zoom. Because when we got married, it was just me, her, our young, our son. And I think she had one of her best guy friends, or whoever it was. It's like five people in the room.

[C]

Oh, wow.

[B]

That's as real as it gets versus this huge. The huge situation. And there's so many people in this space that you don't know what they're on.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I have the utmost respect for her because we've had a lot of hard conversations, and the thing that I respect the most is whether we do or we don't work out, we're in this place of love and just understanding and trying to grow and be the best that we could be for each other.

[A]

That's good. I like that. And I think just me being in the space that I'm in as a celebrity and dating, learning that every time.

[C]

Huh?

[A]

Nah.

[B]

I give you flowers.

[A]

Thank you. But it is different when you, like, dating someone and you want to, like, keep it private, you know? And a lot of times the other person's like, why? Why can't we post? Or like, well, I don't want to take a picture because you're not going to post it anyway.

[B]

I'm like, but you got to do what's best for you. I feel like us as grown, grown men and grown women, if we're in a place and space where we're focused on people, that part, because this will be my thing to your guy or whoever else. How many people did you see post that? Put on as if they're gonna be forever. And then you hear something, you're like. Or you see something. What?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And it throws you off completely, Tremendously. Right. I don't have nothing in this world to prove other than to her now. I do have a responsibility to these kids, but that's it.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, how many times somebody done hit my. I didn't even know you was married. Like, I ain't even know. Like. And it's like, my bad, because it wasn't intentional. Right. And I'm not trying to be. Excuse me, Secretive about it. If it come up, it come up. Like, I don't have a problem doing that. You know what I mean? Like, I'll address it. I'll speak to it. You know, I'm not holding some secret. Cause it's like I got this whole slew full of women that I'm, you know, whatever that is.

[A]

Cause, you know, that's what people would think.

[B]

Like, I can't speak for everybody else.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm just saying. For me.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

That's because me being honest with you, even in other relationships, when I was involved, I let those people know I'm married. When I was living that life, I.

[A]

Living that life.

[B]

Yeah, absolutely.

[A]

You never, like. Cause some men will be like, oh, no. Or act like they're leaving their wife or completely act single.

[B]

I've said that. And I actually was. You know, I was in that process. Right. So I'm not trying to say that these weren't things that were going on, but I've been on both sides of it. I understand. I understand why people have the notions that they have. But I do think that however people decide to move, just respect that.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

That's what's important.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And then me and you, we share. Because, you know, I may not have been like, film and this and that, but being a public figure.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

You know what I mean? Like, it's my first time ever saying that. Like, it's crazy. But I don't, because I don't move that way.

[A]

You don't. You always move super solid.

[B]

I understand to your point. Because it's like, people know you even if they don't, hey, that's Josh. They like, hey, bro, you used to play for the Hawks, or, hey, bro, you should play for the Lakers, or, you know, all that. So I get it. But I don't know what people are on.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And that's the thing that plagues me, because I have personal situations where people who I felt could be trusted have done things that have made me think otherwise.

[A]

And that's probably another reason why you're so guarded.

[B]

Cause, like, I just. Now I move the way that I move.

[A]

Yeah, rightfully so.

[B]

But I honestly feel like everybody should do what they feel is best for them. You know what I mean? Like, you do that.

[C]

Yeah. Yep.

[B]

But then, too, when I talk to her, it's like, she's a little funny about stuff, too. So I don't know. I get it right. Sometimes because just things that she might. Like. I remember when she was pregnant and I did a podcast. This was a while ago. And one of the co hosts was like, you know, oh, I see you got your wife here. She's pregnant. Da, da, da. And you could see she was like a deer in headlights.

[A]

Like, what?

[B]

Because it was. And she told. Like, she told her people, like, yo, I gotta cut that. I didn't want that to be out there. You know what I'm saying?

[A]

It's not my business.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Everybody different, man. Like, you know, I try to uphold to the best of my ability, and I know that, you know, there are days where I succeed at it, and there are days that I don't, but I own that. And I try my best to be better every day.

[A]

That's awesome. There's this thing going around about a list of places that women don't want men to take them on first dates. What was you and your wife's like, first date or how did y' all meet initially?

[B]

First of all, outside of my wife, I'm gonna look at this camera again, because this is silliness, right? This is pure silliness. When you rocking with somebody.

[C]

Mm.

[B]

If you truly rocking with somebody, that means y' all should be able to go on walks, go to Starbucks, go to the movies, do the smallest things, take a yoga class, whatever. The places to go to eat has nothing to do with anything.

[A]

Yeah, that's what I thought. Cause some of those places, I'm like, I actually think these are great. First dates, you know?

[B]

But again, like, is your focus on the person in the conversation, or is your focus on the ambiance? Or you trying to get a taste of this life depending on the person? And it's like, I'm not doing that right.

[A]

So what did you. What's your first date? Like when. If you were to. Let's talk. Cause you're married, so let's talk about your wife. What was your first date? Do you remember?

[B]

I don't know if we consider that a first date. But, I mean, the first time I met her, we went to a cool little restaurant in Buckhead. That's a date. And I met. But it was like a group of us.

[C]

You know what I'm saying?

[B]

I didn't even know her. You feel me? So, like, the way that we kind of just bumped into each other. And I think the next time, you know, outside of that weekend, the next time that she came, I think the first thing that we did was we went to My boy's Hookah lounge, super south side was in McDonough.

[A]

Oh, wow. You was way out there.

[B]

Because he had some type of event. We came through and supported, and that's dope. And that was it. Like. Yeah, it wasn't about none of that. Cause we also. When she came to visit, we went to the movies. Definitely hit the Waffle House, right? I'm from Atlanta, like, period.

[A]

We gonna hit the Waffle House.

[B]

You think we fitted to go get the scramble. You feel me? That All Star Special scattered top. Come on, now. I feel like we all. That's cute, man. It sound good. But if you don't know who you rocking with. And I talk about this too, man, we got people laying up with each other. You going raw, you doing all these things. You seeing people in that form, but you ain't seeing they heart.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

You ain't seeing who's actually the person that when something hit the fan, that's the person you gonna have to deal with.

[C]

Hello.

[A]

That is so true. That is so true.

[B]

Listen, man, you wanna go to Applebee's? Do you. You know, and I think. I feel like, for you, right, if somebody did, like, the simple things, I feel like that would be very important to you.

[A]

Yeah, absolutely.

[B]

You know what I'm saying? Like, somebody taking the time to. To write a letter or.

[A]

Oh, my God. I said that.

[B]

Just doing just little things that are, like, heartfelt. Because it's not. We're all busy.

[A]

We are.

[B]

So the fact that you took the time to even write a sentence on a Piece of paper, even if it's that small little thing, just to share your appreciation of thoughts. Or, hey, let's go do yoga. Let's go, you know, whatever. Or let's make this sexy. Let's go have a therapy session together. Why not let that be the first thing?

[C]

That's fine.

[A]

That's fire. I'm about to lay it all on the table. Still want to be with me now? I'm telling you, that's real.

[B]

We would cut. You know what? We would cut through a lot of BS if we did that, too.

[A]

We would. I like that.

[B]

I'm a big fan of that. That's good for me. Like, you know, everybody's like, you know, take your time and do this and do that. Nah, I own mine. Let me share this with you. I got all these kids. I got these. I got this. I got that. Are you cool with that or not?

[A]

Right? That's good, Josh. Thank you. It's been good. Thank you so much. Thank you for being open. Thank you for being vulnerable. And guys, please go get the book. You can order. I know it's on Amazon. Where else can you get this?

[B]

It is so relationships matter. Live. We got it on there. So Amazon, Barnes and Nobles, we trying. We out here now.

[A]

You out here. So, so proud of you.

[B]

See, that's your girl's copy.

[A]

Now I got my own.

[B]

You got your own. So, you know.

[A]

But I'm gonna buy my own, too. Cause I like to support. So thank you for bringing me. I'm gonna have you sign this one for me. But thank you. Cause hers was signed, too.

[B]

And look, I did this on purpose. It's a super easy read.

[A]

It is. I love easy reads.

[B]

Because a lot of times people either because you're busy, or you may be the person that don't like to read. But I wanted to be. I wanted those hundred pages to be very impactful and kind of like the Alchemist or maybe one of my favorite books.

[A]

I read it every year.

[B]

You end up going back to it because there's different things that you get out of it. And that was my goal along with creating the conversation. So I wanted to be and do something different. I'm not sugarcoat nothing that I went through. I'm not putting no media training in no book.

[C]

Right.

[B]

I want people to know real, raw me. And that way, you get an understanding of who I am, the way that I move, the why, the everything. You know what I'm saying? And I know some people. You gonna be in that one. I still love you. Because I am you. I love you, even though you might feel away. But the same things, if we share stories or whatever, guarantee you there'll be a lot in there. Were you like, wow, I didn't know you went through that.

[A]

No, seriously, reading this, it was a lot of parallels. So.

[B]

And the healing, that's the most important thing.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

What do those steps look like? And that's why I wanted to make sure I put those in there, because that's important. Give you this. But how do we overcome it?

[C]

I love that.

[B]

Thank you so much.

[A]

No, thank you. There is one thing I want to. Before we close, I thought this is important to share with the readers. You said, repeat after me. I know my value and worth and my decisions reflect self love. And I want to leave you guys with that before we close out because I thought that was really powerful to tell yourself that every day. Because a lot of times we lose sight of our own worthiness.

[B]

I do it. So I have a piece of paper and I wrote down these affirmations and it's in my, like, toiletry bag. So I got to brush my teeth multiple times a day. My goal is every time I come to that bag, I'm going to crack that paper open. It takes me probably 45 seconds to read each line as a reminder. Because I'm human, I get frustrated. You know what I'm saying? Sometimes I don't feel loved or respected. Sometimes, you know, I'm bothered because I see dads that receive love from their kids and I yearn for that. You know, I see. I mean, the list goes on and on and on, but I can speak to that because I go through my battles, too. And I want people to know that, you know, I'm no different. So I put the time and the effort in and I just, you know, I don't do it for the accolades or the shine, but it's nice to be acknowledged.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

You know what I mean? So I'm human, man. And the acknowledgement that I want is from my loved ones for sure. Because I really do try. I really do.

[A]

That's good. Well, my hat's off to you. Congratulations on the book. So, seriously, in closing, we do what is called positive outcomes, where we give advice to a listener who wrote into us and this week, her name is Sherry and it says, hi, Ms. Crystal. My name is Sherry. I've been in a relationship for eight years. I have two children, ages 6 and 7. We live together and have been through a lot together. We aren't engaged or even talking about Marriage. And anytime I bring up the subject or attend another friend's wedding, he refuses to go and doesn't strike. I would love for us to get married someday soon, but I think he's more worried about the financial aspect, which I understand, but I'll settle for the courtroom wedding. I don't know what to do, but I can't go on like this anymore. Should I give him an ultimatum? Well, first thing, men hate ultimatums, so I wouldn't do that. But eight years. You've been with somebody for eight years and you already have children. Already having children with someone.

[B]

This is an easy answer.

[A]

Tell em. Tell em.

[B]

To your point, right, you never give an ultimatum, but you gotta put yourself first. And you know how many women, at least that I've heard that have regrets?

[C]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

And regret is a silent killer.

[C]

Mm.

[B]

And in order for us to move past, we have to be able to put ourselves first because in a way it sounds like settling. Right? Yeah. You got the eight year relationship, there's kids involved, but those feelings can harbor into something else. And that's why it's important that she address what she feels is important to her.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Communicate and have that conversation. I'm not saying do anything drastic, but there's so much power in having that conversation. Now, if this gentleman, God bless him, if he continues to avoid, then you might need to do some self searching and kind of seek where you're at, what it is that you want to do and how you want to move.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

Because for me on the flip side, and let me share this with her, you, her, both.

[A]

Yes. Right.

[B]

I was with my ex wife for 1112 years, had three children together, already had a child outside of the relationship that I brought into that relationship. And making a decision to walk away was hard. Yet one of the most fulfilling things that I've done in my life because that person, that situation was stunting where I needed to be in my life. But at the same time, that person in that situation woke me up as to how much more work needs to be done. So no matter what, I'm still grateful for her and that experience because it helped me to grow and mature and so a much better version of myself.

[C]

Right.

[A]

That's amazing.

[B]

And sometimes people can be there for that moment, but please don't allow the fact that you have those children to stop you from where you need to go. And that's a hard decision for anybody to make. And I wouldn't be able to tell.

[A]

Her that if you hadn't done it yourself.

[B]

If I Hadn't done it myself. Because the other thing, too, is I don't know if she has two boys, two girls, son, daughter. But you're teaching your kids to settle and to stay. Not only that, you're just setting a foundation for so many behaviors.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

That you don't even realize that you're doing.

[C]

Mm.

[A]

And kids know.

[B]

You think. They don't.

[A]

They do.

[B]

And then the other thing is, like, you're now. So now basically, my son or daughter gotta meet your son or daughter.

[C]

Mm. That's it.

[A]

That's so good. That was a good answer. That was so good. All right, so we do. What I'm going through and what I'm growing through. And based on where I am in this episode, I am going through, continuing to evolve and heal from my own childhood traumas and growing through, understanding that everything is a season when I feel like it's too heavy. This too, shall pass.

[B]

I got a question for you.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

What is one of your childhood traumas that you're going through?

[A]

Who's doing the interview?

[B]

Wouldn't be right if it wasn't conversational.

[A]

Because that's good. And you're right.

[B]

I want you to know, too, like, with your work and this platform that you have, you're helping heal a lot of people.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So don't. Don't take that opportunity lightly. But I would like to know.

[A]

You would like to know if you.

[B]

Were open for sharing.

[A]

Yes, I would. I've touched on this on my get to know me episode, but it's something that I still work on. And it's just the upbringing. I think that's where a lot of things that I read in your book, I was like, I've been through those things, you know, growing up. And as, like you said, you want to be careful how you say it because you don't want to hurt people. So we can talk about it offline.

[B]

Okay. That's fair.

[A]

But. Yeah, definitely.

[B]

But I want to get a chance, too, because I know this is your platform, but still, it's important.

[A]

I appreciate that.

[B]

I want to tell you I appreciate you and I love you and I'm proud of you, because everything that you're doing, you know, in your life and just trying to be the best version of yourself, it's not easy. It's the hardest job that we don't receive enough, you know, appreciation for facing you. So I wanted to genuinely tell you that I don't even know you, but I do think that you're so amazing.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

And I just want to Tell you, man. Keep, Keep. Keep doing the work. And you have a brother in me now.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

So, you know, I know that it's not easy. And, you know, hopefully, you know, I've done my part. Hopefully we can continue to serve together.

[A]

Yes, absolutely.

[B]

But I'm really proud of you. Cause this is really amazing.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

And I know it's not easy.

[A]

It's not.

[B]

And I could tell it wasn't even when I threw that back at you.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I was like, yeah. Nah, we gonna talk. All right, cool.

[A]

No, for sure.

[B]

But I think. But I think, you know, for your supporters to be able to see you have this moment is truly powerful.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

Because there's beauty in that.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And you just took another step.

[C]

I did.

[A]

Ugh.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

Thank you so much.

[B]

So I'm gonna give it back to you. I don't want no problems.

[A]

No problem. No. All right, now we about to have a whole nother podcast.

[B]

Come on. Now.

[A]

We ended with Keep it blank, Sweetie. And for this one, I will say I think I've used this before. But keep it healing, sweetie. Keep healing and keep evolving. Yes.

[B]

Keep it gracious, Sweetie. Keep forgiving, sweetie.

[A]

Yes, that's good.

[B]

Keep fighting. Yeah, keep fighting for you.

[A]

Give me some. That is so good. Thank you so much.

[C]

Wow.

[A]

Didn't expect to be brought to tears at the end of this episode. But, guys, I hope you enjoy this. Josh, you were amazing. Seriously, such a good conversation. Guys, if you want to write into our positive outcomes listener letter, write into keepitpositive, sweetie gmail.com and it's sweetie with an ie. You can follow Kips on all platforms at Keep it positive, Sweetie. You can follow me on all platforms at Luv. Crystal, Renee. Josh, tell the people where they can find you.

[B]

Josh 21. Powell on Instagram. Do we still do Twitter? Not really.

[A]

People do everything.

[B]

Yeah, I'm on TikTok, but not really. Mostly everything is Instagram. But, you know, check us out. What? I wish I knew. This lovely project.

[A]

Yes. And then your podcast.

[B]

Oh, relationships matter. The podcast. We actually just. Our first episode will air on in the Black Network.

[A]

Awesome.

[B]

On the 15th.

[A]

Amazing. Congratulations.

[B]

So please watch that. If I'm not mistaken, from what I heard, I think we're gonna start with this Steven Jackson episode.

[C]

Oh, wow.

[A]

Oh, that's gonna be good.

[B]

Y' all do not wanna miss this episode.

[A]

And then you don't wanna miss mine. Cause I'm gonna be on there too.

[B]

Definitely don't wanna miss yours. For sure. But this is so beautiful and amazing.

[A]

Seriously.

[B]

I'm truly humbled.

[A]

Me too.

[B]

And this is also a big deal to be in your space.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So I don't take that away.

[A]

I'm very particular about who I let in this space. Absolutely. Definitely. Because we knew mutual people, like even just inviting people into my home for safety reasons. I'm very particular about who I bring in here, but also because this is a space and people leave energy in your space. So I knew you were good people. So I'm so happy that we got you truly humbled.

[B]

And I took my shoes off.

[A]

You did. We appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you so much.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

All right, guys, in the meantime, and in between time you knew what to do. Keep it positive, sweetie.

[B]

Bye. I want to give thanks and praise to heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother for allowing us to come together. I ask for all the blessings and support as we continue this mission to serve. Continuing to open the hearts and minds of many. Praying that you continue to bless these two queens on their journeys and everything that they have going on. Bless their families, bless their loved ones. Protect this king by behind the camera. Make sure that he continues to say blessed and just continue to bring healing amongst all of us. Continue to bring understanding, continue to bring love. Continue to bring a plan of action that serves you and where you want us to go and how you want us to be. And we love you and we truly thank you and we lift this prayer in your name. Amen.

[C]

Amen.

[B]

You better come on, man of God.

[A]

You see, you want to be silent?