AMERICA’S CULTURE WAR IS DESCENDING INTO CIVIL WAR w/ BRAD PALUMBO

Summary

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Podcast Summary

Keeping It Real: Conversations with Jillian Michaels

Episode: AMERICA’S CULTURE WAR IS DESCENDING INTO CIVIL WAR w/ BRAD PALUMBO
Date: January 14, 2026
Guest: Brad Palumbo (Political Journalist, host of "Brad vs. Everyone")

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Episode Overview

Jillian Michaels hosts political journalist Brad Palumbo for a frank conversation on the spiraling extremism in American political culture. Palumbo, known for critiquing both the left and right's fringe elements, unpacks how the dehumanization of political opponents, mainstreaming of radical voices, and social media amplification have dragged America deeper into tribalism. Together, Michaels and Palumbo dissect both sides' failures to police their own, the dangerous rationalization of political violence, and offer sharp warnings about what lies ahead if polarization continues unchecked. The conversation wrestles with issues of personal identity, authenticity, and the vanishing “center” in American politics.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Brad Palumbo’s Political Journey (02:30–04:30)

• Brad describes his political awakening at UMass Amherst, encountering intense left-wing "woke" activism, prompting his shift to a classically liberal, center-right perspective.
• He rejects partisanship:

  “I’m a capitalist, I’m socially moderate, but I’m not a loyal Republican. I have plenty of criticisms of both sides. I think everybody’s getting insane, frankly.” – Brad Palumbo (04:07)

2. Extremism and Its Mainstreaming in Media and Politics (05:01–13:44)

• Discussion of extremist voices gaining influence, e.g., Nick Fuentes on the right and Jennifer Welch on the left.
• Jillian criticizes both sides for promoting hate:

  “Arguably, I almost would put her [Welch] with Fuentes, celebrating the assassination of Charlie Kirk, calling for violence… And she’s sitting there doing podcasts with mainstream figures on the left and they love her.” – Jillian Michaels (08:34)

• Brad notes the trajectory of toxicity moving from the fringes to major platforms:

  “They just started doing… a little bit of politics. And suddenly they’re having Obama on... CNN and MSNBC as the new darlings, even though they’re so toxic, little substance, so much heavy crassness and vulgarity as a substitute for argumentation or evidence, insults and name calling.” – Brad Palumbo (11:01)

3. The Dehumanization and Rationalization of Political Violence (13:44–16:54)

• Palumbo warns that political violence is becoming normalized:

  “We’re spiraling more and more towards unrest…not that far away down this path, civil war and open unrest in the streets lies. If people decide that we can settle our differences with bullets instead of ballots, we are heading to a very, very dark place.” – Brad Palumbo (13:44)

• Both hosts highlight the danger of viewing politics as "good versus evil," which enables rationalizing or anesthetizing violence.

4. The “Words as Violence” Paradigm & Escalation Fatigue (16:54–23:10)

• The redefinition of “violence” to include offensive language or microaggressions leads to justifying retaliatory violence.
• Jillian and Brad caution against constant alarmism, which produces public fatigue and disengagement:

  “A lot of fatigue…people who feel like I’m being told the sky is falling every day. So I guess I just give up and I’ll stop listening.” – Brad Palumbo (22:02)

5. Navigating Divisive Social Issues—Trans Rights, Immigration, and Policy Stakes (16:54–23:56)

• The hosts discuss key issues that amplify the sense of existential stakes (e.g., trans healthcare for minors, immigration).
• Palumbo offers a nuanced take:

  “So I think a couple things can be true at the same time. Things can be very important and consequential while not literally all being life and death…If we’re always at a 10 about them, then I guess that kind of becomes meaningless.” – Brad Palumbo (19:46)

6. Why Extremist Outliers Gain Passes (25:07–27:51)

• Palumbo dissects why some, including those from minority backgrounds, excuse extremists like Fuentes.
• Quote:

  “Anybody who had concerns about immigration was called racist for years, anybody who questioned things about Israel was called anti-Semitic. Now we have so much open anti-Semitism…when you throw [labels] around like candy on Halloween, they lose their meaning.” – Brad Palumbo (26:18)

• The effect: People become numb and less reactive, even when “the actual wolf” is present.

7. Desensitization, Edgelord Culture, and Online Nihilism (27:51–29:06)

• Excessive exposure to extremism, memes, and irreverent humor creates social nihilism, leading to normalization of bigoted views under the guise of “just jokes.”

8. The Dangers of Collective Blame—Pendulum Swings and Victim-Blaming (29:06–30:06)

• The gay community and others are blamed for not policing fringe elements within their own, leading to backlash and rights regression.

9. Wedge Issue Manipulation & Tucker Carlson Case Study (30:06–37:35)

• Jillian and Brad discuss Carlson’s strategic pivoting and incendiary rhetoric (“Globo Homo”, revisionist takes on Venezuela and Uganda) to drive animosity and relevance.

  “Tucker is a lot of things, but dumb isn’t one… he’s thinking, how can I breed more animus towards gay people?” – Jillian Michaels (35:04) “I actually would respect him more if he did [hate gays]. I think it’s cynical and sinister and it is a ploy for attention.” – Brad Palumbo (35:49)

10. Rebranding, Amnesia, and Gaslighting On the Right (38:51–41:52)

• Conversation about public figures denying or revising previous positions (“Did somebody hit Tucker over the head and does he have amnesia…?” – Brad Palumbo, 41:10)
• Discontent with audience complicity in rewarding dishonest influencers.

11. Bot Amplification, Social Media Distortion (43:11–46:39)

• Analysis of how bot amplification artificially inflates the reach of fringe figures (Nick Fuentes), contributing to distorted narratives and driving bad-faith media coverage.
• Jillian’s concern:

  “But when Jennifer Welch is on CNN...and Fuentes is on every show—if we don’t start saying something, the damage is going to be irreparable.” – Jillian Michaels (45:46)

12. The Cost of Not Policing Your Own: Parallels Left and Right (46:39–49:30)

• Palumbo connects Democratic failures to condemn BLM- or Antifa-related rioting to the present-day reluctance of Republicans to denounce their own extremists (e.g., Fuentes).

• “If you refuse to forcefully denounce the radical activist wing and make it clear that we don’t stand for that…they deserved this, given the backlash.” – Brad Palumbo (46:39)

13. Republican Party’s Identity Crisis & Risks for 2028 (49:30–59:53)

• The right’s online radicalization causes rising intra-party purity tests, gatekeeping, and drives away broad coalitions (e.g., women, minorities, centrists).

• “They need to convince people like you to win an election…But I don’t think they want us anymore.” – Brad Palumbo (51:50)

• Jillian’s lament:

  “Now that you take on the right, oh man, you’re on an island…we wore the big tent on the right…and I feel like that is disintegrating.” – Jillian Michaels (56:32)

• Brad’s prognosis:

  “Short term, I think things will continue to degrade and get worse…most likely J.D. Vance…will embrace a lot of it. They will run on toxic, edgy nationalism, and they will get destroyed…And then hopefully the Republican Party will put the pieces back together and end up somewhere back, more middle, more normal.” – Brad Palumbo (57:42, 59:53)

14. Rise of Radical Figures on the Left—Mamdani as New York Mayor (63:52–66:58)

• Discussion about Zoran Mamdani’s ascent as NYC mayor, how symbolic victories for the far left can reshape national party priorities.

15. Is There Hope? The Power of Calling Out Bad Ideas (68:20–74:47)

• The pathway forward is encouraging independent voices, embracing radical moderation, and focusing on honesty over tribalism.
• The challenge:

  “What you’re creating is a pocket…and what I mean by that, it’s like, you know, we took on the left, we had somewhere to go. Now that you take on the right, oh man, you’re on an island.” – Jillian Michaels (71:28)

• Palumbo’s affirmation:

  “There is demand for that. It just maybe isn’t the biggest demand in the world, but maybe it’ll grow as things get crazier. People will look for more of a stable dock to, or harbor to dock in. That’s what I’m hoping and betting on at least. But regardless, I’ll keep doing it.” – Brad Palumbo (72:03)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Threat of Civil War:

  “We’re spiraling more and more towards unrest…not that far away down this path, civil war and open unrest in the streets lies. If people decide that we can settle our differences with bullets instead of ballots, we are heading to a very, very dark place.”
  — Brad Palumbo (13:44)

• On Political Demonization:

  “When you paint things as an existential fight between good and evil, it becomes fairly easy to rationalize or at least become anesthetized to violence.”
  — Brad Palumbo (15:24)

• On Fighting For the Center:

  “If we’re always at a 10 about [issues], then I guess that kind of becomes meaningless. And then when something really bad is happening, people tune out.”
  — Brad Palumbo (22:02)

• On Media Cynicism:

  “Tucker…is a ploy for attention…what he can’t stand is being irrelevant. And the only way people talk about his content now is when he says something outrageous.”
  — Brad Palumbo (35:49)

• On Social Media's Distorting Influence:

  “On X, I will get so many comments…if I criticize Nick Fuentes, it will seem like I’m in the minority opinion…maybe some of these people…are in echo chambers or are too online, that they think these people are more popular than they are and that they fear reputational backlash.”
  — Brad Palumbo (49:02)

• On Radical Moderation:

  “I’m a radical moderate. People are starting to return back to legacy media because they cannot tolerate some of the madness that they're finding online.”
  — Jillian Michaels (72:47)

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Timestamps for Major Segments

| Timestamp | Topic/Highlight | |-------------|------------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:02–04:30 | Brad's political background and evolution | | 05:01–13:44 | The mainstreaming of political extremists | | 13:44–16:54 | Political violence and the rhetoric of existential stakes | | 16:54–23:10 | Escalation, dehumanization, and alarm fatigue | | 25:07–29:06 | Why outliers are increasingly given a pass | | 29:06–30:06 | Backlash in the LGBTQ community and "victim-blaming" dynamics | | 30:06–37:35 | Tucker Carlson, wedge issues, and culture war manipulation | | 38:51–41:52 | Media gaslighting and audience complicity | | 43:11–46:39 | Bot amplification and social media perversion of reality | | 46:39–49:30 | Policing extremism within political parties | | 49:30–59:53 | Republican identity crisis, coalition building, 2028 predictions | | 63:52–66:58 | Zoran Mamdani and the Far Left’s rise in NYC | | 68:20–74:47 | Hope, the case for honest radical moderation |

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Tone & Takeaways

• Tone: Incisive, passionate, unflinchingly honest, sometimes darkly humorous. Both hosts are frustrated yet determined to keep fighting for sanity and the center.
• Takeaway: The tribalization and extremism on both left and right are mutually reinforcing and deeply dangerous. The way out is not to abandon ship but to relentlessly “call out the crazy” and refuse loyalty to teams, choosing the harder path of advocating for nuance, moderation, and the rejection of violence.

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Where to Find Brad Palumbo

• Podcast: “Brad vs. Everyone” (all major podcast platforms and YouTube: Brad Palumbo)

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Closing

Jillian thanks Brad for his courage and authenticity, echoing hope that independent, honest voices can steer the country toward a “stable harbor.” The episode ends as a call to action for listeners to reject tribalism and reward intellectual honesty—even when it leaves them politically homeless.

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Transcript

[Jillian Michaels]

My guest today is political journalist Brad Palumbo and he's built a massive following doing something rare in today's climate, exposing and attacking extremism on both sides.

[Brad Palumbo]

The future of politics in this country could be between big government, Christian nationalism and Islamo socialism. Zoran Mamdaniism.

[Jillian Michaels]

Now, at a time when America's culture, culture wars or pushing people into rigid tribes, Brad has focused on fighting bad ideas instead of defending teams and warning about what happens when we stop doing that.

[Brad Palumbo]

Not that far away down this path, civil war and open unrest in the streets lies the people decide that we can settle our differences with bullets instead of ballots. We are heading to a very, very dark place.

[Jillian Michaels]

We see it everywhere from radicalized wine moms like Jennifer Welch, who sells celebrate violence.

[Jennifer Welch]

So listen up, democratic establishment. You can either jump on board with this or we're coming after you in the same way that we come after maggot to alt right racists.

[Jillian Michaels]

Jews are running society. Women need to shut the up. Blacks need to be imprisoned for the most part, who avoid condemnation under the guise of free speech when really their moral compass points only to the next climate. And the consequences of this unchecked extremism are already here. We're seeing the dehumanization of neighbors, political violence, rationalized disjustice, and a complete collapse of shared truth. We're so far beyond right versus left, we've arrived at good versus evil and how we pull ourselves back before tribalism does. Lasting damage is critical. Brad Palumbo joins me now. Keeping it Real with Jillian Michaels. I am such a fan of yours and how completely friggin brave you are. And you say what's in your heart and on your mind and you tell your truth with, I don't know if you give concern to the consequences of doing so. And you know your show Brad vs. Everyone, I'm like, that's me. Brad is like my spirit, little courageous, you know, human out there in the world tackling it all. And I'm wondering, can you tell me a little bit? I mean, you're conservative. Center right, you say. Were you always center right?

[Brad Palumbo]

Well, not exactly. I had an interesting journey and we could take a step back and walk through it a little bit. But I wasn't very political growing up. Like my household when I was in high school, didn't really talk about the news or politics. Pretty checked out from it all, but it was. Of course, I was graduating high school in 2016 when Trump was infamously running for president, shaking up the whole world while he did it. But then I went off to UMass Amherst. I'm from Massachusetts originally and for folks that don't know anything about UMass, I just went there because it's a state school and I needed a scholarship and I didn't have a ton of resources, so I went there. I didn't know that it was like a ultra woke social justice, left wing Marxist, economics department. So I went there and I kind of got, I guess maybe that term didn't exist, but like red pilled by that because I was like, whoa, they are literally calling the police over jokes here they are banning straws from the restaurants because to go green or whatever and then you have the stupid paper straws. They're having actual. They had a cry in after Trump won and I voted independent. I voted Libertarian in 2016, but I remember laughing at that. They literally had a public place where you could go where they had tissues and the professors all just had listening sessions. So I was kind of in the short version is I was kind of repulsed by that. But then I had to figure out what do I actually believe. I didn't want to just be reactionary, like, oh, I'm not left, so I must love everything about Republicans and about Trump. That didn't fit me either. So the decade since has been me figuring out where I stand and where I believe. And ultimately I ended up in kind of a classically liberal center right position where I'm a capitalist, I'm socially moderate, but I don't, I'm not a loyal Republican. I don't even consider myself a partisan political person. And I have my plenty of criticisms of both sides. And I think everybody's getting insane, frankly. So that's why I named my show Brad versus Everyone.

[Jillian Michaels]

Everyone is getting insane. I have some, I have a silver lining to some of that which I do want to talk about and a few clips to show you to see if I can bring our hope and our belief in the greater good of the mission. When kind of everybody came together under this big tent to put Trump back in office. With the best of intentions, but I totally agree with you. And I saw this video of you addressing Nick Fuentes, I think calling you homo face or something. AIDS face.

[Brad Palumbo]

He called me AIDS face. I will give him points. It is funny. But he is obviously very hateful towards gay people.

[Jillian Michaels]

See, you know what, you think it's funny. I don't think it's funny at all. Why do you think that?

[Brad Palumbo]

Well, I don't think it's so. Something can be funny in that it's kind of clever. Like, I did chuckle at it. It's obviously very nasty and evil, but it's just because he's just. I don't know. When you watch him off the cuff, he always comes off as South Parkian to me in his humor and his style. And the problem is that they're not jokes, though.

[Jillian Michaels]

That's the difference.

[Brad Palumbo]

I'm okay with edgy jokes and edgy humor and edgy memes. Like, the Instagram reels I send to my friends are not politically correct. But there's a difference when you actually mean it. You actually do hate gay people. You actually do hate black people. And that's how I feel about Nick Fuentes. It's like he's not just an edgy jokester, but when people come after me personally, I try to take it in stride. So, yeah, like, I don't respect Nick Fuentes. I don't care about his opinion of me. I'm concerned by him and his influence that he has. Whatever. How much of it is real we could discuss, but it's not zero. And. But. But I really. Doing what we do, you have to have thick skin. And so I care what my partner thinks of me. I care what my mom thinks of me. I care what my friends think of me, but I don't care what other people, especially people who are, you know, fringe and extreme in their views. I don't care what makes them boo. I've seen what make they cheer at. Right? What's that? I think it's Rick and Morty line. Like, okay, make fun of me, insult me, call me names. I don't respect you, so I don't want your appreciation. I'd be concerned if Nick Fuentes was complimenting me.

[Jillian Michaels]

Oh, here's my coffee. Hold on. Thank you so much. I totally agree with you. This does not need to go on the front of the camera there. I totally agree with you with regard to being concerned. If he compliments. I don't think he compliments anyone. It's not so much him, though. He is just another lunatic. My concern with Fuentes is that the right doesn't marginalize their crazy and they go down the same path as the left, which is Brad crazier than ever. What is the name of that woman? She's got, like, this permanent, like, scowl. Blonde, blonde podcaster. Jennifer Welch.

[Brad Palumbo]

Oh, Jennifer Welch.

[Jillian Michaels]

Oh, my gosh. Like the most hateful.

[Jennifer Welch]

Look at this clip of a wine mom at the no Kings March. Play the clip.

[Jillian Michaels]

Bird's name was Charlie Kirk, ma'. Am. Yeah. Him is horrible. Horrible. Charlie Kirk is horrible? Yes. I'm glad he's not here. You're glad he's dead? Yes. Why would you say something like that, man? Because he was horrible on the campuses, the college campuses.

[Brad Palumbo]

Horrible person.

[Jillian Michaels]

You know what? I do the exact same thing. Would you be glad if I would die? Maybe. I'd have to think about it. You should be ashamed of yourself. You should be ashamed of yourself. Your friend just said she'd be happy if I died.

[Jennifer Welch]

So listen up, democratic establishment. You can either jump on board with this, or we're coming after you in the same way that we come after Maga and that woman out in somewhere middle America saying, charlie Kirk, he was a racist. He was a piece of. There are so many more of us than there are of them.

[Jillian Michaels]

Arguably, I. Honest to God, I almost would put her with Fuentes celebrating the assassination of Charlie Kirk, calling for violence. And. And she's sitting there doing podcasts with mainstream figures on the left and they love her.

[Brad Palumbo]

Sad.

[Jillian Michaels]

What. What in the world do you think is going on that these exceptionally radical voices are getting mainstreamed? They really are. They're getting laundered. Like Joy Reid, who. Listen, Joy Reid is the ultimate race baiter. And that always. That bothers me because we have enough problems in our country without getting black people and white people to go to war over shit that isn't even real half the time. But she still was on msnbc, whether you, you know, you want to play the DEI card on her. Like, I'm not really down with that one because she's not dumb and she went to Harvard. And I don't agree with her on the. Pretty much everything she says. However, I don't think she's stupid, and I do think she's still considered a more mainstream figure. And, like, she goes and sits with this. This woman and her whatever, co host and just talks about the most hideous things. They can't have the successor to MAGA be the guy with the brown Hindu wife. They're also Christian nationalists. That ain't gonna work. That's why he's throwing his wife under the bus. Or Usha, or. She's in on it, right?

[Jennifer Welch]

And she's playing slap and tickle with Erica. Kirk's the weirdest shit I've ever seen.

[Jillian Michaels]

Yeah, it's.

[Jennifer Welch]

She's like in her Tammy Faye era, okay?

[Jillian Michaels]

Holding on back of his head and rubbing on his head some weird baby. Don't do that to Jason. I'mma start thinking something's going on. Why you holding the Back of his head. I'm like, you. You not doing that right there. You supposed to be a widow. You in leather pants. Yeah. That's not widow wear.

[Jennifer Welch]

Could you imagine if.

[Jillian Michaels]

Wouldn't it be the most perfect fairy tale maga. Fairy tale. Yeah. If he finally sees the light that he needs a white queen instead of this brown Hindu. And I.

[Brad Palumbo]

Why do I. I love how the co host never talks in the clips that go viral. She's always just mute, like. But what's funny is I actually used to watch them. So their whole shtick was that they were like sassy wine moms who originally were not political. And they would tell, like, they would rant and rave about, like, people not putting their shopping carts back or people who don't tip or these petty grievances. And they blew up. But then they just started doing a little bit of politics. A of politics. And it was. I listen to left wing voices all the time, but that's not their thing. They don't know anything. And so it was very low iq, like wine mom level, MSNBC bait. So I didn't find it interesting. So I checked out. I checked back in like a year later, and suddenly they're having Obama on or Kamala or all these major figures. Suddenly they're being put on CNN and MSNBC as the new darlings, even though they're so toxic, little substance, so much heavy crassness and vulgarity as a substitute for argumentation or evidence, insults and name calling. And what's funny to me is it's actually like the worst part of how Trump acts sometimes is when he engages in this kind of thing. Like, he puts the truth, social posts out, calling people names. It's like, focus. I think in his first term, his approval rating would have been much higher if he just never tweeted everything about that. They are like, we'll just do that and then some. And I'm like, I thought you were supposed to be better. I thought you were supposed to be different. But they're like, actually, hold my beer.

[Jillian Michaels]

Oh, my God, you're totally right. It's the double down. And it. It has been going on. When did you see. You were talking about noticing it in 2016. I didn't. I didn't notice it until 2020.

[Brad Palumbo]

Well, that was peak crazy.

[Jillian Michaels]

Do you think it was peak crazy or do you think that it continues to escalate? I feel like it continues to escalate. I never in my wildest imagination in 2020 could have imagined the mainstream celebration of the assassination of a father and a husband we could debate and Charlie's characteristics and the things he said. I firmly believe that he is not a racist, that he is not anti gay, that he was a force for good. But I have no problem debating that with people who haven't watched the, the things he says in full context. If you wanna say you think these things and you're willing to show up for a debate about it, absolutely, by all means. But to not even know anything about the guy except that he is a father of two and a husband and that half the country loved him to mainstream the celebration of a murder. I don't know how to reconcile with this. I don't like. Where do you think the left is going? You're so good at calling this out and being reasonable and listening to both sides and I'm gonna get to the right in a minute. But who is their leader? What in the hell are we going to be looking at?

[Brad Palumbo]

Well, unfortunately, I don't think even that they know that yet. But I do believe that as we get closer to 2028, the Democratic primary will tell us everything. Who they rally behind and what tack they those individuals take. Because we're gonna have different options that represent this different faction. But I want to touch on the political violence aspect that you just touched on because that's one of the most disturbing things to me about everything that's happening in America. We're spiraling more and more towards unrest and honestly not that far away down this path civil war and open unrest in the streets lies. If people decide that we can settle our differences with bullets instead of ballots or we are heading to a very, very dark place and sometimes people will dismiss like oh well, most mainstream Democratic officials didn't openly support the death of Charlie Kirk. True, but okay, they'll say it's just a few tiktoks. Not true. Look at some of the public polling about the percentage of Democrats that think the assassination of Charlie or of Elon Musk or Donald Trump is at least partially justified. You're getting near majorities or pluralities in some of that polling from the network Contagion Institute. That is a genie that you can't put back in the bottle. And I think it stems from a couple ideas, a couple of things. One is the demonization of people who disagree. And I encountered this a lot in left wing spaces early in my career as not just wrong, but they've got to be some form of racist, sexist, homophobic bigot. Because when you paint it in that terms then it's no longer people of good faith who holding different positions. Like I have people in my family who voted for Kamala Harris and lots who voted for Trump. And I know them to be good people of good faith who reach different conclusions or maybe have some misguided ideas or incorrect beliefs about different things. But when you paint things instead as an existential fight between good and evil, it becomes fairly easy to rationalize or at least become anesthetized to violence. Right, because you believe. Well, the stakes are so, so high. Every single election is the greatest election of our lifetime or the most important election we've ever had. And so I think the constant alarmism is part of the problem that got us here. And then the other part, I think traces back to the idea of words as violence, right? Because we have watered down terms like trauma and violence and safety so much that when a microaggression becomes something that makes you unsafe. And actually we have unironically a trunk of the country that has believed that and bought into that ridiculous notion that like, oh the. Well, you said something in a way that's slightly insensitive so that person's not safe. Well, at some point, if speech becomes violence, if you redefine speech as violence, then violence in response to speech is just self defense or preemptive strike. And down that way you can't have a democratic society, right? Then you end up with open rule of the strong might makes right. And it's a very dark path to go down that I think traces back decades in where these ideas started. Infiltrating.

[Jillian Michaels]

Yeah, they completely dehumanize the other side. And I don't, you know, I try so hard like the left and it's too broad. I take that back. I'm talking about the politicians on the left and the major pundits that push these insane narratives. I'm Talking about the AOCs, the Gavin Newsoms, the Ilhan Omars. That's what I'm talking about. Like that kind of crazy is just beyond my comprehension. But you know, you say when you act as though the stakes of every election are cataclysmic. I have to admit, Brad, I kind of felt in the last election like they were. And I'll give you a few examples of things that I almost literally labeled life and death. So the transing of minors, I think people have no idea what it does to a young developing brain when you put them on off label cancer drugs. This has nothing to do with them being trans, not being trans, getting older and making these decisions. I couldn't care less. I am a true, as you said, classical liberal. If you are a consenting, mature adult that can comprehend your choices, like, what do I care what you do with your life? I don't. I got enough problems. I don't care. But when you've got an innocent child who can't comprehend these decisions, who is being targeted by major corporations that make millions off of these drugs and the damage that it does to their body is irreparable. They are sterilized for, for life. It impacts their bone development, their brain development. Like, these are the things I think the vast majority of people on the left don't know. But I know for a fact those politicians know it. I know for a fact they're taking money from these drug companies. I know for a. And that for me is like, it's barbaric. Or the fact that you open the borders and it kind of looks like you're opening the borders so that you can rig the 2030 Census Apportionment Map and kind of reign supreme in power forever. Like, I kind of wonder, is that the end of democracy if you've let millions of people in? Millions. I've heard numbers 10 million, 14 million, 18 million. I don't know. But over the Biden years, It's at least 10 million. And then it's like, oh, here's a free phone card and interest free home loans and health care and food. Like, now, why would you do that? Because you're such a good person. No. And when you just simply look at the facts, it does look like, oh, I get it. You're gaming the apportionment map for electoral college votes and seats in Congress. That's what it looks like, these things. And you and I could go on. It does feel like the stakes are so, so high.

[Brad Palumbo]

Yeah. So I think a couple things can be true at the same time. Things can be very important and consequential while not literally all being life and death. We will never recover from this election because all the issues that you just described are real and important. I've been outspoken about what I think is evil transitioning kids for years. And it's funny because when I was originally, like a fringe extremist on that, so much so that I was disinvited from a gay men's soccer club for opposing transitioning kids in D.C. when I lived in obviously a very liberal city, because they argued that my views made, like, hypothetical. Because, of course, there weren't any future trans men who joined the club unsafe. So I'd be Like, okay, I guess I gotta leave this group because y' all are crazy. And also, I was not, like, bringing this up at soccer practice. This was in my journalism and in my writing. I was speaking out against transitioning minors. But I've always supported. I've never had any issue with trans adults living their best life. I'm not gonna call you, like, neopronouns or the ridiculous bullshit, but within reason. Sure, I'm a live and let live kind of guy. And what's funny is now I actually get attacked as like a woke lib because I'm not actually on board with the extreme, extreme anti trans right wing stuff. But so it can be true that I think it's profoundly immoral. And one of the greatest failings of the Democratic Party that they went. Despite there not being evidence behind these treatments, despite there not being studies, they gaslit us about that. They went full all in. And then they deny it, too. They pretend, no, we never supported sex changes for minors. I had someone on CNN say that to me, and I'm like, except when the Biden administration literally brought Dylan Mulvaney to the White House to talk about it. Except when Democrats all signed amicus briefs before the Supreme Court saying, don't allow states to regulate and restrict this stuff. They did. And then they have the temerity to insult us for it. But even then, the Trump administration has made some moves on that issue that I support. Like, I don't think Medicaid should cover it and other things. But they're still going to transition kids in California, and they're still in. In blue states and red states are still going to ban it. And frankly, the number of kids that will or won't transition between if Kamala had won or Trump had won, I'm not convinced. Is that huge. And it can be consequential. I'm not saying it's not. I'm not downplaying it.

[Jillian Michaels]

I see what you're saying. I see what you're saying.

[Brad Palumbo]

I'm not sure that it would change the fate of our nation, though. And even on the immigration question, obviously the Biden's immigration policies were disastrous. I have my own criticisms of some of what Trump is doing now as well. I understand. Yeah, I think we're in an overcorrection period. But most of those millions of people came here and are trying to work and make money and live under the table and aren't even voting. Heck, if they have kids who are citizens and vote, they might end up voting Republican. A lot of The Hispanics I know are actually more conservative than I am, more pro life, more Christian, more. All of that. So while I think that can be bad and it can be real, I'm not even convinced that would ultimately swing the nation forever in an irreparable way. And these things, abortion, trans issues, immigration, they're going to be issues every election. So it's like if we're always at a 10 about them, then I guess that kind of becomes meaningless. And then when something really bad is happening, people tune out. I notice a lot of that, a lot of fatigue, a lot of people who feel like I'm being told the sky is falling every day. So I guess I just give up and I'll stop listening. And I think that's a real problem.

[Jillian Michaels]

I will say one thing for Kennedy. He is working to ban all sex changes for kids under 18. So there's some hope. I don't know what happens when Trump's out and somebody else is in, if it just turns around like you suggest, or. I'm sorry, not like you suggest, but what will inevitably happen is power will change hands. The desensitizing piece. But now you have real racism with Nick Fuentes. Right? Real anti Semitism. True. Like homophobia and. Oh, yeah, like deep hatred. And I want to get to that. I don't want to get to all of that, but I've seen and you had. And I cannot remember this kid's name. He's so cute. He's a young black, gay conservative.

[Brad Palumbo]

And I mirror Odom.

[Jillian Michaels]

Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. And really intelligent, sweet kid. I've seen a few of his videos and thought a lot of him. There was one where he kind of gave Fuentes a pass. And I've seen a few black people giving him a pass. And I'm thinking, like, what are you guys doing? And then you've got the gay guy Milo, on Tucker, talking about how we're all.

[Brad Palumbo]

Well, he's an ex gay now. Oh, sorry, ex gay.

[Jillian Michaels]

Okay, sorry. The ex gay. And I'm trying to understand what is happening on the right, because it seems as though what happened on the Left, right, where 80% didn't agree with some of these crazy things you and I are talking about, but they went along with it because they would rather. You know, my producer said this to me last night. He's like, they'd rather go to their grave screaming about something they don't believe in as long as there's an army behind them. And I wonder with Amir, is it because Fuentes is cool right now, and you don't want to be, you know, in his bullseye.

[Brad Palumbo]

This is not to say anything bad about Amir, because he is my friend, but I think there's two things going on. One is there is this, and some of it's fake, but some of it is real. Like, actually, people, anything positive about Nick Fuentes or any interview gets like insane views and engagement. And there's something intoxicating about that. So content creators do have an incentive to pander to his audience sometimes by making excuses for things they never would really excuse. But then to be fair to Amir and to people like him, when you ask them, and I did on my podcast, so people can check out, I had him on because we're like, I'm criticizing Nick a lot. He's like, disagrees with some things, but sees some value. I'm like, let's talk about it. And people were very interested in listening to it. But his argument is, well, can I write him off as a racist when people have been calling me racist for years just for stating facts or just for being honest about BLM being a scam or other things? And it's like, I understand why people feel that way. They cried wolf so many times, but sometimes there's a frickin wolf, right? Like, sometimes the actual wolf is here and it's about to eat you and we need to actually call it out and get help. But it is a problem that anybody who had concerns about immigration was called racist. For years, anybody who questioned things about Israel at all was called anti Semitic. Now we have so much open anti Semitism. I'm so bothered by it. But it's like the. The fact that everything was closed off and these labels were watered down because when you throw them around like candy on Halloween, they lose their meaning. It's like now people aren't phased. They hear, oh, yeah, Nick Fuentes is a racist. Well, they told me that about that, about Ben Shapiro and about everyone who I listen to who's at all right wing. So whatever, I guess I'll still listen to him. And there's also. So I think that's a huge piece of how we ended up in a place where people with genuine hatred and animus are mainstreamed somewhat, or at least have massive audiences on the right. The other aspect is, I do think there's a degree, especially among younger people, of like, almost nihilism. They feel so hopeless. And then the Internet is so unserious. I mean, I saw on my Instagram this morning a reel of the we are Charlie Kirk song, but it's we are Jeffrey Epstein and he's dancing AI with George Floyd. It's like this generation is so unserious, and it's so bombarded with, like, tragedies and horrific things and then memes and jokes about everything that then you just become desensitized to actual extremism and hatred. And then they can always hide behind that. It's just a joke. But the problem is, for a lot of these people, it's not just a joke.

[Jillian Michaels]

No, it isn't at all. And I've noticed you talk about the soccer, the men's gay soccer group. And here's part of my concern is that I've sat with conservatives who over the past several years and seen Dave Rubin do it and seen you do it. And I thought we had this kind of understanding. And it's the understanding that Charlie Kirk espoused many different times. I am religious. I believe that marriage is between a man and a woman. But we, you know, this is not a thing theocracy here in America. And I, you know, I, I celebrate your family. I think it's beautiful. And, you know, there should be no law to take away your rights to protect your family. And now I'm starting to hear people say, you know, we gave you that on the right. We gave you that. We gave you that. We let you guys have that. And look what you did. You started transing kids and, and, and men started punching women and boxing at the Olympics. And, and I'm thinking you're conflating two totally different issues. But on, on one hand, then the gays should have called out the crazy and your soccer group didn't do it.

[Brad Palumbo]

So, like, mainstream LGBT organizations all went all in on it for fundraising and to find a new cause to push. And I agree with you and I'm okay with a little bit of victim blaming when it comes to, like, well, why is gay marriage support falling? Perhaps the fact that the gay activist community and the most visible gay people in America, many of them went all in on such extreme radicalism is a piece of that. And if that's victim blaming, I would just call it fact shaming. But it doesn't mean you throw the baby out with the bathwater the same way when people say, like, DEI went insane, right? And I agree, where it became anti white discrimination in many places, you ended up with this toxic race sensitivity training and all this stuff. It doesn't mean we get rid of the Civil Rights act and put Rosa in the back of the bus either. Right. We don't do that. Like we have to a pendulum swing in a society, things go too far. The solution is to go back to the middle, not to swing back to the opposite extreme. But many people seem to want to do that.

[Jillian Michaels]

Have you seen this clip of Tucker Carlson saying that the reason we invaded Venezuela is because of Globo Homo? Have you seen this?

[Brad Palumbo]

Yes, I have. I covered this on my show.

[Jillian Michaels]

I have to show it to the audience in the event they haven't seen it and then we can discuss. Guys, can we play SOT1 Globo Homo?

[Tucker Carlson]

We can safely discount democracy as a reason for affecting regime change in Venezuela. We're not going to go kill Nicolas Maduro because we don't like the way he's treating his people. It's possible we're mad that he doesn't allow gay marriage. That is a distinct possibility. But no one will say that out loud. Not defending the regime, just saying. One of the most conservative countries in north or south or Central America, only El Salvador really comes close, which is much smaller, of course. And by the way, the US backed opposition leader who would take Maduro's place if he were taken out is of course pretty eager to get gay marriage in Venezuela. So to those of you who thought this whole project was Globo Homo, not crazy.

[Jillian Michaels]

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[Brad Palumbo]

He's cracked the case. I mean, it's just, it is laughable, but it's actually, millions of people take this seriously. The idea. And whatever you think about it, I'm so glad Maduro is gone. But we can, of course, debate the wisdom of different interventions. The idea that has anything to do with gay people is absurd. The Trump administration is not huddled in a room thinking, how can we bring gay marriage to Venezuela? They're thinking about oil. They're thinking about people here who want to see an end to the tyranny. They're thinking about the China, Russia strategy, Iran, gold.

[Jillian Michaels]

Yeah, Monroe Doctrine. But, but here's, here's what's exceptionally nefarious about that, is there are many conservatives from Ben Shapiro to Matt Walsh that have always opposed gay marriage. They've not softened their position on it. And we've, you know, I've had an amicable debate with Matt Walsh over it. You know, we agreed to disagree. Whenever you get into those conversations, you're obviously fighting for the minds and the hearts of the people watching. But it was amicable and he showed up for it. And I appreciate it. And I respect that not one of them, not one conservative commentator who is against gay marriage, of which there are many, dared to make such a suggestion. And Tucker is a lot of things, but dumb isn't one. So you have to imagine that he's thinking, how can I breed more animus towards gay people? They really don't want more forever wars. I mean, MAGA is like, no way, no more. Where's this going? What's going to happen? Is this going to be boots on the ground forever, like Iraq and Afghanistan? Oh, wait. You know who I can blame for this today? It's not the Jews, it's the gays. Why?

[Brad Palumbo]

It's dishonest though.

[Jillian Michaels]

Of course it is. But that's not the point. Why is he doing it? Does he truly hate gays that much?

[Brad Palumbo]

No, I actually would respect him more if he did. I think it's cynical and sinister and it is a ploy for attention. Tucker is addict. Tucker has all the money in the world. He doesn't care about the money. I know he has the team, the staff, a setup that I'm sure I would dream about, right? But what he can't stand is being irrelevant. And the only way that people talk about his content now is when he says something outrageous. And so he says this kind of stuff. And he is a smart guy. So either is being incredibly lazy or just totally lying. The funniest thing, Jillian. Nicholas Maduro, who is an evil man, actually supported the legalization of gay marriage. He just hasn't been able to implement it because it would require changes beyond even his power. Literally, if you look it up, he has made comments that are pro gay marriage in the past. So the whole thing is ridiculous to begin with, but it's based on a falsehood. I just googled this to double check this before I said it. Nicolas Maduro has publicly stated support for gay marriage.

[Jillian Michaels]

Son of a gun, make this up.

[Brad Palumbo]

But Tucker did this as well. He went recently, went on a rant apropos of absolutely nothing about Uganda's anti gay law from 2023, I believe. And he was saying that everybody claim they were making it gay to be illegal, but they were really only actually criminalizing gay rape. And he went on this whole rant, it's like, I just read the law and it's literally not true. It punishes gay people with criminalization and then repeat offenders with the death penalty. He didn't do any due diligence or he did and he just lied. Either way, it's. It's a complete betrayal of your audience's trust and millions of people still listen to him. But he's. I think he has made the cynical calculation that he, he just wants to be noticed and be relevant and people only talk about him when he deviates from the norm.

[Jillian Michaels]

But, you know, I find that so strange because for years people watched Tucker, like when he left Fox, and I thought he was going to go join X with Elon Musk. I was like, that's cool. Then he was on Rogan, and I'm like, that's cool. And I, I started watching and there were some really good shows and he's done some great exposes. And I would have normally tuned in for a solid critical analysis of what the heck we can expect out of Venezuela. I would. And I would have spoken to somebody from the other side. And I have been. And, you know, I spoke to Mike Baker and I spoke to a constitutional attorney, but he would have been one of the people that I went to. And you know what else is bizarre is the 180. Like, that's another thing on radical Islam. And I'm not talking about, okay, I'm not talking about the, you know, 101 1. I can't even do the math. 1,900,900, you know, 900,000amazing Muslims on the planet. I'm talking about radical Islam. And it absolutely exists. And there's a slaughter going on in Nigeria right now that pretty intelligent, erudite people are trying to bring to the forefront. And I don't. He.

[David Harris Jr.]

He.

[Jillian Michaels]

Back in the day. I actually have a clip of this I want to show you. Back in the day, he's sitting there talking to peers about the slaughter of Christians by radical Islam in the Middle east and North Africa. And today he's like, I don't know anything about it. I don't really think about it. It's like, you know, everything about it. Nine years ago, you were the guy talking about it. Take. Swear to God, take a look at this, just so you could see the bizarre.

[Unnamed Expert on Radical Islam]

Like 180, I think, unfortunately, you know, if it happens in the Middle east, this kind of atrocity, it just does not seem to attract the kind of media attention in America that it would if it happened. As we've seen in the attacks in Sweden last few days in London two weeks ago, I was there for that. Huge attention in the American media. You know, in Paris, in Nice, these get huge attention. And yet what happened in Egypt was unbelievably significant. You know, if you look at what ISIS really stands for, what they are carrying out now in the Middle east and in Egypt in particular is a kind of genocidal attack on Christians and Christianity. They want Christianity eradicated and they want to convert all Muslims to their crusade. They want it to be a holy war and they want Christians gone. And I don't think that narrative is getting the attention it should get in the American media and I have to say in other media as well around the world.

[Tucker Carlson]

Ted Cruz is upset about what's happening in Nigeria to Christians. I'm not against him being upset about that. You say it's much more complicated than he's presenting. Probably more tribal than religious. I don't know much about it.

[Jillian Michaels]

What I find so strange about this is he doesn't turn around and say slaughtering Christians is good. Of course, nobody would ever say such a thing. But he goes, I don't know much about it. Like that peers interview is nine years ago. And there are a host of other clips where he's the guy telling everybody about it. That's not actually anti Semitic and it's not anti gay. It is pro radical Islam. This weird shift in position and now I guess he's buying land in Qatar. But why do you think that so many of these people on the right are giving us this complete 180 in their position? Tucker just being the most obvious example.

[Brad Palumbo]

I don't know. I'm struck by it because Tucker's done this as well, where he pretends not to know who people are. He's on his show, he'll be like, you know, Tommy Robinson, I barely know who that is. But then you pull up the clip and he had him on his show like multiple times on Fox. And I'm like, did somebody hit Tucker over the head and does he have amnesia or is this just a way of him like trying to belittle people and just assuming that people won't check the publicly available records? Hello. Like the Internet is forever. We know all these things. So you can rebrand if you want, but to just gaslight us and pretend like I never knew anything about the Christian persecution. Well, you did because you dedicated to the guy.

[Jillian Michaels]

Yes, yes.

[Brad Palumbo]

That's not honest.

[Jillian Michaels]

But.

[Brad Palumbo]

But Joanne, the problem I have, and I don't want to blame the population, but at some point we exist in a media market and everyone out there, consumers vote with their attention. They vote by what they click on and who they listen to. And you are sending a signal that I want more of this by rewarding this. And what frustrates me about the current moment is that whether it's Tucker or whether it's Candace Owens or other people, they will repeatedly make very large errors or lies that get debunked and exposed and they don't apologize for them or own up to them. And yet the audiences doesn't tune out. They just tune in more to see what drama is coming next. And it's like we rely on people to actually vote with their wallets and their attention in a way that rewards integrity and punishes dishonesty. But now it doesn't do that. It seems like, if anything, the most toxic and most dishonest people are the ones making the most biggest splash. Maybe it's algorithms, maybe it's social media, I don't know. But it's a really destructive trend.

[Jillian Michaels]

You bring up algorithms. I actually want to show you this clip. Tucker happens to be in it. He's. He appears to be on the, the right side of the issue in, in my opinion. Take a look at this.

[David Harris Jr.]

There's been a lot of research on what has been happening in the last few months. And the bottom line takeaway in the last few months is that there is a coordinated effort of individual, largely unverified accounts in social media. They typically emanate from India, Pakistan, Malaysia, Indonesia, Nigeria. And there is a coordinated amplification process that is happening around this content. And in this chart that you're seeing, it's just a comparison of Nick in the first 30 minutes to what people like Elon get in the first 30 minutes of him posting. Now, why that's so important is you start to see this huge disparity where even though you have the most viral person and account in the world, I. E. Lon Musk on X, what you see is him completely crushing and dominating the virality in the beginning of his content creation versus anybody else's. And then there's a bunch of other charts, Nick, you can retweet a link to this. It starts to show a pattern where there is a coordinated effort to amplify. I think that's why we're having the Nick Fuentes moment.

[Jillian Michaels]

So on one hand, I kind of become dystopian like you're talking about. And I'm thinking like, who, who in the world is rewarding this? And I've tried so hard to stay above it. Right? Part of me is just like, Joe Rogan doesn't talk about this stuff. You know, Sean Ryan doesn't talk about this stuff. You could, you could stay above this and just, just explore topics with people and give them information. And, but, but, but here's my concern. Brad. Here's the reason I feel compelled, like we have to start saying something is because you already have one party that didn't call out there crazy. And that party is so wildly unhealthy. I don't think we could get a decent candidate out of them if we begged, borrow and stole. I don't see how that's possible. And if the right goes down that same path where they refuse to call out, they're crazy, then we have two parties that are exceptionally unhealthy. And the reality is that. But when you've got the biggest names like the Tuckers and the Fuentes' and they've got millions of views, whether it's fake or not, it almost becomes real. Like the New York Times as chamath. I always mispronounce this gentleman's name and I'm so sorry. As he points out a lot of Fuentes, his traffic appears to be bots. But the New York Times turns around and goes, look at all these racist Republicans. They hate blacks, they hate gays, they hate Jews. Look at the audience. And now it's a matter of fact. So I feel like if we don't start saying something, then the damage is going to be irreparable. You know, I would love to say like this is just crazy. Don't give it any attention to keep going. But when Jennifer Welch, you know, is, is going on CNN and Mamdani is now the mayor of New York after rapping about giving his love to the Holy Land Five that funded Hamas and Fuentes is on every show. Like, I feel like we, you know, we have to say something. Do you, do you think it's alarmist though, like knowing that so much of Fuentes traffic is fake? Should we forget it and just keep going?

[Brad Palumbo]

I don't think you can. I think you have to forcefully call it out or, or you become tied to it by admission. I mean, I'll give you a good example. One of the biggest disgraces of 2020, which I do view as like peak insanity for the Democrats, was the riots and looting that killed dozens of people after the death of George Floyd. And I thought that what they did to George Floyd was terrible. But I thought, of course you don't get to destroy and do billions of property damage and dozens of people are killed. Very, very few, few prominent Democrats came out and said, yeah, I support that. Please go burn down more buildings. What they did do, many of them was say nothing at all or issue one tepid mealy mouth condemnation once and then Never touch it again. So they refuse to forcefully denounce the radical activist wing and make it clear that we don't stand for that. And they were successfully, politically and rightfully so. They deserved this, given the backlash for it. And I think that's what's happening with the Republicans right now. Most Republicans are not Nick Fuentes, but I find it telling that JD Vance seems so reluctant to condemn him. He has once or twice over the years, to be fair to JD but it's like this dude literally mocks your brown wife and recently said he would vote for Gavin Newsom over you because Gavin Newsom has a white family and is better looking. Be a little more forceful. Right. But I think they are afraid of alienating the ultra base. They know these people are very nasty when you make them mad, as I have personally experienced. And for whatever reason, they also are so bitter and disillusioned by years of, like, the media calling everyone racist or whatever that they don't want to do anything that could be seen as playing into that narrative. But a broken clock is right twice a day. And when the New York Times calls Nick Fuentes racist, they're just observing reality. And I don't believe you should just like, thumb your nose despite them and say, well, I still won't condemn them because I'm not playing the media's games. Actually, you could just condemn them forcefully and distance yourself, but I don't think they're going to do that. I don't understand. I think part of it is because these people are too online, and I'm a hypocrite for saying that. But for example, on X, I will get so many comments, and maybe if some of them are fake, maybe a lot of them are fake, but if I criticize Nick Fuentes, it will seem like I'm in the minority opinion.

[Jillian Michaels]

I know, but I'm not.

[Brad Palumbo]

I know 90 of the country would agree with what I'm saying, but on X, I'm the minority opinion. And all of a sudden I'm getting dogpiled and I feel like I'm the crazy one. Suddenly, maybe some of these people, the JD Vances of the world, are in echo chambers or are two online, that they think these people are more popular than they are and that they fear reputational backlash to them if they condemn them. That wouldn't actually happen. That could be part of it, but I still view that as fundamentally cowardice.

[Jillian Michaels]

I agree with you. And I think it's going to hurt J.D. vance in the general election. I really do. I really do like that young Republicans tweet chain where they're glorifying some of the. It's going to get me banned on YouTube. I can't say, but they're literally glorifying some of the most hideous, disgusting offenses. It's like, it's, it's beyond, you know, it's beyond the pale. That's all we'll say. And he's like, oh, let's not clutch pearls. And I'm thinking, oh, my gosh, what are you doing? Like, this is going to crush you in a general. What are you doing? Oh, my gosh. Come on.

[Brad Palumbo]

See, I'm pretty confident we're going to have a Democratic president in 2020.

[Jillian Michaels]

I am, too. I think I totally agree with you. And it's, it's interesting because the far right now is like, you're not. And now they're policing. Who's allowed to weigh in on a conservative movement now? It's like, you're not a conservative.

[Brad Palumbo]

Oh, they've tried to do that to you.

[Jillian Michaels]

Me, Dave. I'm guessing they've done it to you. It's like, you're not a conservative. You don't get to weigh in. And you're not one of us, and you're not this. And I'm thinking, where is.

[Brad Palumbo]

It's funny how woke that is? It's like, excuse me, only POC can comment on this. Or a male doesn't get to have an opinion on this. Well, all of a sudden it's like, well, you're center right. You're not far right, so you don't get to tell us not to be Nazi. It's like, what? No, my opinion is either correct or false based on the truth, not based on where I stand on an identity hierarchy. It's so woke. It's crazy. It's like a 180.

[Jillian Michaels]

You know, I like Steven Crowder. I don't agree with him on some very aggressive positions that, that he takes. Some. I do. I, I, I think he's a ultimately a good person. And, and his position on certain things, as I mentioned, I fully don't agree with. But like, women voting. That, that is a, that is a separate conversation. But, you know, he initially jumped down my throat because I was outraged at the suggestion by Fuentes that all women want to be raped and they want their sh. Beat out of them.

[Brad Palumbo]

And he's like, you're not crazy bothered by that.

[Jillian Michaels]

It's like, you're not a conservative. You don't get to tell us what to think about this. I'M like, but I am a. Hold on. What are we doing? What are you doing? And. And there was a moment with Crowder Room. Like, what are you defending? What in the name of God, Why are you defending this?

[Brad Palumbo]

They need to convince people like you to win an election. You need a majority. They call the coalition.

[Jillian Michaels]

I don't think I. Brad, I don't think that they want us anymore. And you are seeing that and what's concerning. And I said to him, I was like, listen, I get that, you know, you guys want to shore up your base and you want to go back to your, you know, your core message of whatever the hell that was back in the 90s. Because it seems like we're getting a return to like 1990s conservatism. But I don't see the. The podcast bros. I don't see the Theo Vaughn's and the Andrew Scholes and the Joe Rogans. Like, I don't see them getting behind this. Like, those guys are classical liberals at heart. Joe Rogan voted for Bernie. There's no way he's not getting behind that. There's no shot. And he's the most powerful man in the media. So I don't know. I don't know what's happening there. Do you think? You know, again, I was discussing this, this with my producer last night because we were talking about your content and how great it was, and he thinks that people on both sides have nothing to stand for anymore. They don't know where they stand. Nothing's cool. Like, the MAGA hat is like skinny jeans that went out of style and now we're all wearing, like, baggy jeans. Really? Honest to God. So what is cool is hatred. Okay? I hate this group. I hate that group. I hate this group. I hate that group. And it's cool. And that's why someone like Amir, like, he doesn't want to be cool. So when somebody makes gross racist remarks about blacks, it's like, oh, well, you know, I'm cool enough to let it fly. I don't know, like, what are we even standing for on the right anymore? Is MAGA alive and well? Is it not? I don't like, how are these things trends politically?

[Brad Palumbo]

Well, I don't think it is. I don't think it is alive and well. When you look at the broader public, public polling, even of the approval and disapproval of the Trump administration, really good and not getting better. It's getting to getting worse. Now there are certain issues where he's still polling well. People trust his handling of things, but I think it will come out in 2028 ultimately. Or actually it will come out in these midterms. But frankly, the other party almost always wins the midterm after a presidential election. So it's like Democrats are going to win. It's more question of a lot or a little. But regardless, the backlash and the energy is going to come because they're swinging so far to this pendulum. And it's funny because it reminds me kind of of what happened with the Democrats. They openly shat on men and on uneducated people or like people without college degrees. Then they're like, wait, why did all these people stop voting for us? I think this is going to happen where a lot of, like, centrist gay people, a lot of women who are not woke, like, voted for Trump. A lot of Hispanics did. But then if all the apparatus becomes so openly rejecting those people talking about like heritage Americans and all this crazy, like pseudo white nationalist shit, those people aren't gonna stick around. They're gonna be like, well, they all betrayed us. It's like, well, you deserved it.

[Jillian Michaels]

I know. And they're not seeing is so strange. They've got this concept of like, we can't fight amongst ourselves. We've gotta focus on the left. It's like, no, you need to focus on bad ideas. That's what you need to focus on. And that's how you maintain the high ground.

[Brad Palumbo]

Also, every right wing voice who says that, also you can find videos of them bashing Republicans on all sorts of things. That's just a cop out of where they don't want to talk about Nick Fuentes. I remember somebody was like, well, we shouldn't be punching, right? It might actually been Matt Walsh that said this. And then I went to his YouTube channel and I found a video of a couple days of him bashing a Republican senator. Like, they do it when they care. It's about something they care about. It's just something that's not important to them. So they're like, stop infighting.

[Jillian Michaels]

Right, Exactly. Of course. I just don't. I, like, I don't know, Brad. I, I'm wondering where, where do you see the Republican Party going? Like, are we gonna, are we gonna lose this party? And it makes me so sad because it took a lot. It took a lot, as I'm sure you know, to come out against the left, as, as a, as a gay woman, as a gay man. It took a lot to know, okay, I'm never working in this town again. Like, I'm here in New York. I'm doing a ton of press. It's. It's all on Fox. All of it. All of it. Gone are the days that I'd be here doing the Today show, the Kelly Clarkson show, the Jennifer Hudson show. Oh, no, no, no. Because now I'm. I'm a white supremacist, and I'm maga, and I'm all those things because I called out the crazy on the left. I'm transphobic because I don't want to trans children. Like, all of those things. It took so much, and now we have to do it again. And there's nowhere to go. There's nowhere to go. Can't go hide with these guys. They, you know. You know what I'm saying? Like, we have to go through this whole thing again. And sometimes I go back and forth with Dave Rubin because we've become, you know, pretty good friends. And, like, there's videos of him sitting with Tucker, sitting with Posobiek, sitting with all these guys, and it's like, all right, you know, we're gonna. We're gonna unite. We're gonna fight the greater good. And I felt like we had this big tent, and it had blacks and it had gays and it had Jews and it had Latinos, and we were all kind of. We wore the big tent on the right, and we were all united to fight against some of the most obvious insanity like looting and rioting and defunding the police and all the crazy stuff we talked about. And I feel like that is disintegrating. Do you think?

[Brad Palumbo]

I agree. You agree, but here's how I think it resolves. So the doomerism is short term. Short term, I think things will continue to degrade and get worse. But we have to remember that 2014 was only a little over 10 years ago. Politics back then is unrecognizable to today. When you think of what Republicans were, who the major figures were, were. Heck, Jeb Bush was a favorite for the 2016 presidential primary. Look what happened. So 10 years from now, things could look totally different. And what I believe will happen is that most likely J.D. vance, but possibly somebody else, will receive the Republican 2028 presidential nomination and go not 100%, because they have to maintain some level of plausible deniability and polish on, like, the groiper, extreme stuff, but they will embrace a lot of it. They will run on toxic, edgy nationalism, and they will get destroyed by Gavin Newsom or whoever the Democrats put up. The Democrats will win the White House, and then hopefully Then the Republican Party will put the pieces back together and end up somewhere back, more middle, more normal. Because I don't think any of. I don't think Trumpism will work without Trump. And he seems to be like, made of Teflon in the way that all these scandals and all the crazy shit he said over the years just doesn't stick to him in a way that I just don't think will apply to anyone else. So I think they will continue to get more extreme, more tribal, more openly edgy and hateful in some ways, and less classically Republican. I miss my Reaganites who actually liked capitalism. Like now all of a sudden, capitalism is terrible and we're basically kind of agreeing with AOC or Bernie on economics. JD Vance once said that he, like, agreed with a lot of Elizabeth Warren's economics. And I'm like, what timeline are we in? How do I get out of it? So I think then they will crash and burn, and then hopefully that is when the readjustment happens. But it might not. That might be the future. I don't want to depress you and your audience, but I think.

[Jillian Michaels]

No, no, no, no, no, no.

[Brad Palumbo]

This is important. It's not hard to believe that the future of politics in this country could be between big government, Christian nationalism and Islamo socialism. Zoran Mamdanism. That could very well be our future. And then in that case, we're cooked.

[Jillian Michaels]

You know, I was just talking to David Harris Jr. Who's exceptionally, exceptionally religious and couldn't be sweeter. And I, I've looked at both of these religions, and if I was to lean into one, it would be, it would be Christianity. It would be trying to live in a Christlike way. The, the principles of Christianity have absolutely appealed to me of, you know, not lying, not stealing, not cheating. You know, when people talk to me about the lessons, at least in the New Testament, I can identify with that. But I'm like, David, how am I supposed to reconcile the part of religion that's exclusionary? Like, everybody who's a Jew or a Hindu or a Muslim or whatever, they, they're, they're not going to heaven. And all the gays, well, that's against God. And you know, he, he actually basically said, listen, it, it does say, you know, you can't be gay in the Bible. But, but take a step back from that. And you gotta remember, and that, you know, this was written by men. It was interpreted like their interpretation of something being divine. Like, he kind of, he gave me a very sort of reasonable, like, listen, the principles are there. The principles mean something. And you know, people like, it says, don't be a coward. People are cowardly. It says, don't lie. People lie. Like, nobody lives this perfect Christ like life. Nobody does this, that and Charlie himself. Like, there's just so many famous clips of him. And one of my favorites is the one with Dave Rubin where he goes, listen, again, I, I am, I'm religious. I, you know, according to the Bible, marriage is between a man and a woman. But we don't live in a theocracy and I would never take away your marriage. Like, why can't they go back to, to Charlie? Was he not their fearless leader who that worked? He was against racism. He was like, he was inclusive. Do you think the loss of Charlie has begotten this? I, I have to wonder a little bit.

[Brad Palumbo]

Well, I think it was happening before that, but I certainly. And I can have sympathy for this. Get watching someone you care about be shot and killed in political violence. Yeah, yeah. If you let your emotions overcome you, that could be a radicalizing force. But we are supposed to still think about logic and reason and first principles, not get caught up in the, in emotion. Very rarely when you look throughout American political history are decisions or policy changes made after a tragedy with emotions high do they end well. Right. You think about the Patriot act and all the insane stuff that was done after 9 11. You think about the wars that were launched after 9 11, 11 and beyond. Of course, it was a horrific tragedy in 911 and people were so emotional about it, but they didn't think logically about some of the things they were doing. They just got caught up in the moment and obviously the scale is lesser and the things that are changing are different. But in any tragedy, you're going to have people who get caught up in the moment and do things that won't age well and they will regret. And I think people are making a lot of mistakes right now, but you have to zoom out and think bigger picture because a lot of this is not going to age well. The same way that you have all these people who went ultra woke and crazy in 2020. It's come back to haunt them now that they are entering the mom daddy administration and we find their tweets about whiteness and about eradicate white people or whatever it is. Well, I think a lot of people are getting in very edgy and extreme territory on the right right now. Now, yes, five, ten years from now, it's not going to look good in hindsight, but they're caught up in the moment. And that's always a dangerous place to find yourself.

[Jillian Michaels]

Where do you think New York goes with Mom, Donnie? Because on one hand, I think to myself, Jill, like, if you're going to be a good person, you're going to want what's best for New York and you're going to want this guy to succeed. But then, you know, then on the other hand, I'm like, we'll succeed at what? What do I want him to succeed at? Like, destroying personal property, seizing the means of production. Like the person that I think he put in charge of the rental board. I can't remember the exact gig that she got, but posts came out that she thought personal property was white supremacy. So what do I actually want this guy to succeed at? I don't even know where I stand anymore, Brad. I want New Yorkers to be happy and healthy and to have financial stability. If Mamdani can provide that, then you know what? I want to be wrong all day long. I want to eat my shorts. And I hope to God it works out. But how? Like, what are we rooting for? I personally don't even know anymore at times what I'm rooting for. So on one hand you're like, okay, I hope it doesn't work out so we can get back to normal. But then like, I don't know, like, where does.

[Brad Palumbo]

That is that. I'm actually more concerned about the trajectory he will have on the Democratic Party than I am on how much he will change New York City. Because you, as the mayor of New York City, you can do a lot, but you can't do everything, actually. And most of the. His actual ideology, if he was able to, say, successfully turn New York City into his socialist dystopia, of course would be disastrous, but he can't do that. In fact, I don't even think he can even edge up taxes on the rich without the state assembly being involved, without the city council approving it. There will be lawsuits, there will be things that get challenged and struck down. So what I think we will have is years of wacky ideas and people and dysfunction in charge and maybe a few individual consequential changes that are harmful. But he's not going to destroy all of New York City because he can't actually do that much. What I'm more concerned about, and of course New York City is important, but it's just one city in our big and diverse country, is that the Democratic Party is going to see him. And as much as I object to his ideas, he is an articulate and compelling speaker. He is handsome, he is young. He built up this energetic coalition. And I'm worried that the Democratic Party is going to say, that's us. That's the future of our party. And then they're going to try to run on that nationwide and just become more and more like them, like him. Heck, he could even be on their 2028 ticket, who knows? Or an advisor and a future administration. And so I'm actually more worried that his rise and the popularity that he has, again in an ultra blue but bubble is going to drag the Democratic Party broadly in a way that will be harmful to our country, to the far left. I'm more worried about that than the actual damage he can do to New York City, which is consequential but not cataclysmic in my view.

[Jillian Michaels]

Okay, so then circling back one more time to the right with that in mind today, okay, so this will come out and a few days from now, But Trump, okay, he grabs Maduro and it's like, all right, you know, something had to be done. Everybody agreed something had to be done. And, you know, I'm going to sit this one out. Hopefully he's got a plan. He hasn't gotten us into a forever war yet. He, you know, he is a pacifist at his core. And I'm going to wait and see how this plays out. At 24 hours later, we might invade Greenland. I'm like, no, no, no. Inside voice like that can't you. And all my friends on the left who for like five seconds were like, wait a minute now. I'm not dumb. And I remember that Biden Harris put a $25 million bounty on Maduro's head. And I remember Chuck Schumer belittling Trump in 2020 for not having taken Maduro out of power. And even Annavaro is on the View being like, no, no, I saw that. Right, okay. She, of course, had to, you know, go after him for the way that he did it, which is. Hold on. What? Not one American died, but, oh, okay, fine. But then the very next day, we're going to invade Greenland. And I'm just.

[Brad Palumbo]

Do you think.

[Jillian Michaels]

And that's where I like you. Just in the, in 24 hours, you got so much support, I think, from the left that the left doesn't want to acknowledge judge. And within the same 24 hours, they're like, I don't like Brad. Do you think that matter? I know that it's like it's Trump being Trump, and I know that it's his thing and I know that it's how he, you know, he negotiates. I don't. We're not obviously going to invade Greenland or whatever the hell. But do you think.

[Brad Palumbo]

I don't know. I would not give it to 0%.

[Jillian Michaels]

Seriously.

[Brad Palumbo]

I never can say never with this administration and the state of current politics. I don't think. And I think Stephen Miller, who I really am not a fan of, is driving a lot of the behind the scenes action in this administration this time around. And he is a very aggressive person with a very expansive view of what the US should be doing militaristically. So I don't think we'll invade Greenland. I think what we have to do, and this is what I try to do with Trump myself, is wait till something happens.

[Jillian Michaels]

Yeah.

[Brad Palumbo]

And not worry so much just about something that gets floated. Because they say a lot of things and then they do a percentage of them. Right. But like they, they threw out 50 year mortgages, which is obviously not a good idea. They float. They float lots of ideas. The people who are staffing administration, many of them are not traditional polished politicians or well trained in terms of like, media discipline. So I try to focus on what they actually do rather than just what they said that day because otherwise it's overwhelming and exhausting and we can't keep up. I feel like I can't keep up, let alone how's a normal person who's not a professional political person supposed to keep up. So focus on what he does and what's happening and try to tune out the, the noise.

[Jillian Michaels]

All right. Do you think the alt right influence of Fuentes takes that party as, as extreme on the right as Mom Donnie does on the left? Like we're going to get two basket cases. Is this what we're dealing with in the short term?

[Brad Palumbo]

We might. I don't think the Republican party or the 2028 nominee will go all the way there.

[Jillian Michaels]

But you do think so.

[Brad Palumbo]

Some of the worst elements to appeal to that, especially because the nature of a presidential primary is that you have to pander to the most energized base. And that's the. It's like a tiny percentage of the country participates in presidential primaries and they're the ones you have to appeal to. And they're going to be on one radical or the other most of the time. So I expect to see a continued drift to the right now. They have to keep donors happy. They have to maintain some sorts of, some semblance of normalcy, but they can't so they're not going to go all the way. But I think some of this stuff is going to creep more into the mainstream unfortunately over the next couple years. We can just hope that medium to long term there's a course correction and we end up somewhere sane. But maybe it will just keep getting worse.

[Jillian Michaels]

Oh gosh, I hope not. I really hope not. But I, but I appreciate the heck out of your voice and your bravery and your courage and it, you know, what you're creating is a pocket and what I mean by that, it's like, you know, we took on the left, we had somewhere to go. Now that you take on the right, oh man, you're on an island. You're, you know, you're Brad against everyone. But maybe, maybe there's a, there's a bunch of little Brads with Brad. I am, I am a Brad. I'm with you on this one. I'm on your side of that line.

[Brad Palumbo]

And I appreciate that. God, there is a lot of people interested. So it's like I, obviously the demoralizing part is that my numbers are still tiny compared to a Tucker or a Candace. But I get, you know, lots of people who want an independent perspective. They want someone who will call out BS on both sides and I'm able to build up a decent sized audience and a living for myself. So there is demand for that. It just maybe isn't the biggest demand in the world, but maybe it'll grow as things get crazier. People will look for more of a stable dock to, or harbor to dock in. That's what I'm hoping and betting on at least. But regardless, I'll keep doing it. And if that makes me unpopular, so be it. If I wanted to be do public relations, I would have gone into that instead of media and journalism.

[Jillian Michaels]

You know, I don't think you're unpopular at all. I think you're wildly popular and growing in popularity. And the crazy part part is that I think the vast majority of people tend to be somewhere in the middle. They tend to be somewhat centrist, somewhat moderate, somewhat reasonable. I was watching Billy Bob Thorton recently on Joe Rogan. He's like, I'm a radical moderate. And I'm like, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. People are starting to return back to legacy media because they cannot tolerate some of the madness that they're finding online. It's like, please God, I Hannity, I'm going to Hannity. You know, like, like a normal. And, and they don't know yet because there's a sea of people on the Internet, so it takes a minute to find you, but I think once they find you, they're there to stay. And that independent voice that's honest and authentic and not tribal and doesn't do for clicks is more valuable than ever. And so absolutely, absolutely. Just desperately needed. And I just. I commend the heck out of you. And I'm a fan and I am excited that, you know, hopefully this will be our first talk of many and I look to you for a little perspective and some commiseration over the next.

[Brad Palumbo]

Of course. Thank you so much. I really appreciate the support.

[Jillian Michaels]

Brad, tell everybody where they can find your content.

[Brad Palumbo]

And you check out the the Brad vs. Everyone podcast on all podcast platforms or on YouTube is my main platform. Just Brad Palumbo.

[Jillian Michaels]

Thank you, sweetie. Keep doing everything you're doing and I'm in your court. I'm an ally. If I can ever help, you know where to find me.

[Brad Palumbo]

Absolutely.

[David Harris Jr.]

Thanks.

[Jillian Michaels]

Thank you so much for watching. If you enjoyed the podcast, please, like, comment, subscribe and share. And make sure to let me know what guests you want to see on in the future.