B (2:10)

Yeah. So it's not like a bad thing. It's Just the idea is, like, it sounds creepy, first of all, but I don't usually have carbohydrates before I train and like, let alone like a mysterious carbohydrate powder. So, I mean, full disclosure, it was probably a bad day for me to do that knowing. But like, so.

A (2:28)

But this is quintessential for you, though.

B (2:30)

Yeah. So I'm sorry, research.

A (2:32)

And then you try everything and here we are. You know, this is quintessential Thomas Delilah.

B (2:37)

They're gonna see real Thomas. Raw, pale, and, oh, my gosh, the behind the scenes.

A (2:42)

Well, I wanted to start out with some of the fun stuff that people expect from, you know, both of us having a conversation. And all this stuff I love to watch you for is to learn about, you know, you do all the homework. You're always on the front lines of what the research is saying. So let's talk the obvious diets. What are you eating these days? I mean, you're shredded forever. Is there food? You're just eating cyclic dextrin alone, which would definitely account for why you feel like throwing up your intestines at the moment.

B (3:19)

Write this down because we actually do need to talk about this because the cyclic dextrin diet got me thinking of, like, have you been seeing people doing the sugar diet? Legit. The sugar diet. So write it down because we'll come back to it. Cuz you stop. Okay. Yeah.

A (3:29)

That is why I have my little.

B (3:30)

This is legit freaking crazy.

A (3:32)

Okay. But I am on my nicotine gum, so I can remember to come back to it. Another talk to you about.

B (3:37)

Sorry, that's the other reason I might. I think I'm nauseous. So I, I.

A (3:40)

How much did you do? So I usually.3 milligrams.

B (3:42)

No, so I usually only do like a half milligram because I do it. The combination with methylene blue.

A (3:47)

Are you doing that?

B (3:48)

Okay, we'll talk about methylene and. But yes, I do like methylene blue, but I use it kind of dose it properly.

A (3:55)

Okay.

B (3:55)

But yes, I think I took like, nicotine will make you nauseous anyway.

A (3:58)

Oh, yeah.

B (3:58)

And I think that mixed with the cyclic extra. And I think it was just like, I give myself a.

A (4:02)

Anyway, it makes me super nauseous. I can do 1 milligram of the gum with food in my stomach and anything more than that or without food in my stomach. I'm like, it is brutal. And I am very curious about it because of the cognitive benefits, supposedly. And I have an Alzheimer's gene, so the whole Maha group of people Live by it.

B (4:29)

Yeah.

A (4:30)

And I started utilizing like low and slow, one milligram, four days a week under the pretense that like, okay, I am. I have severe add. I really do.

B (4:44)

Yeah.

A (4:44)

It helps me slow down, it helps with recall, helps processing speed. I notice. And I'm hoping there are these long term benefits with regard to Parkinson's because it's in the family as well. Like, I'm kind of effed I'm going to end up in a diaper not knowing my kid's name. So I told my son, we have a deal. I'm like, he put the pillow when this, when, when I don't know your name and I poop my pants. I brought. I was the first one to hold your little hand when they cut your umbilical cord. Be the last one to put the pillow over my face because I know my daughter won't be able to do it. What are you thinking about nicotine? Is this like a trend or is this.

B (5:23)

No, I don't think it's. I don't think it's a trend. I think that nicotine does get a bad rap just because it's been, you know, cigarettes, all of the other carcinogens and crap that's in a cigarette. Like, people don't, it's really hard for them to say, like, what is nicotine versus a cigarette? Like, people you talk to, 99% of the population, they're not going to really understand. You hear nicotine, they're going to automatically associate that. Of course, I mean, nicotinic acid, like all this is an energy currency in the body essentially, or promotes the energy currency, ATP. So in terms of like creating energy in the body, it's perfectly fine. Now, do you form a habit with it? That's the thing I don't necessarily like is anytime you borrow from tomorrow for today, right? So it's like if you're using nicotine as a way to get energy or there's just no free rides. So as much as I like nicotine, I'm always looking at it with that perspective. Right.

A (6:12)

So interesting. See, I just thought it's neuroprotective.

B (6:15)

What is. But it's still this, right? Like, there's a lot of things that are potentially neuroprotective that. So I don't know.

A (6:22)

I, I do that with caffeine as well.

B (6:24)

Caffeine's a perfect example. Right. You could say the same thing with, with coffee. Right? Coffee. Okay. You have all the antioxidants in coffee. Most people get the majority of their Antioxidants in a given day from their actual literal cup of coffee, that's like the most antioxidants they're getting in a day. Right? But you could say all this and you say all these other like cardio metabolic benefits of caffeine, right. Lipolysis and this and that. But then you can also say, well, okay, you're also creating more oxidative stress because you're burning hot. Right, Right. So the same kind of thing happens with nicotine in certain ways. It's like, yeah, you could. It's a hormetic stressor to a certain degree. And then it's also good for telling me. The point is, is I'm okay with having like a small amount of nicotine, right? And like testing it out. But I think the moment that it becomes a habit, the moment it becomes part of your, like, almost you need it or it becomes your identity. Like a lot of people, like, you know, I've got close friends and that are first responders and that comes like they need it, right? They need it. I actually, the state of California a while back actually had me do a video for the fire academies educating them on nicotine because. Not because they wanted them to stop nicotine, but because they wanted to educate them on how to use it a little bit better. Because people are, I mean, they're pounding like 7, 10, you know, just going all the time. And I understand, like, they've gotta be able to perform, they've gotta be able to do their job. It makes sense. But also like, maybe not that much.

A (7:44)

Of course it sounds like the same theme though, with this kind of stuff that I generally adhere to because it's like, well, there's good and then there's bad, and then it's a balancing game. It sounds like it's a balancing game and kind of low and slow. Don't overdo it. Like, I don't allow myself, myself to have more than two cups of coffee a day. I don't allow myself to have more than like 5 milligrams of nicotine over the course of the week. But I'm also not addictive, so I'm not going to end up doing 5 and needing 10 and then needing 20 and then needing, you know, so I'm fortunate in that capacity. I just don't have the chemistry for.

B (8:22)

It, even though, even though it's interesting so. Because even your, you were, you struggled with your own weight for a while and it was never really an addiction. I'm going to flip this interview, but I mean, so you. That was never really in a. A food addiction type issue, or do you.

A (8:38)

It was definitely a psychological issue. In other words, it was a crutch and a coping mechanism. It wasn't a defense mechanism. It didn't help me, like, defend against some sort of deeper issue, but it allowed me to maintain control, and it did provide a connection to my dad. So, as a child, he was overweight, and he was a tough guy to know. He is a tough guy to know. The relationship's always been off again on again. But he loved to cook and he loved to eat, so it was really the one thing that we would do together. Um, and then whenever I would go through harder times as a kid, you would associate it with comfort, something to look forward to, something I could control. Um, and it wasn't until, you know, everyone's heard this boring story, but I got into martial arts that I started to have other things which gave me a sense of empowerment. And the group that I was with in martial arts really looked down upon it, and I wanted to fit in and I wanted to belong. Like eating Cheetos and Taco Bell, you know, it was not cool.

B (9:48)

All the cool kids are doing that.

A (9:50)

So. So that helped. And over time, I began to appreciate health as a means of transcendence. Like, when I felt empowered physically, I felt empowered.

B (10:02)

You took refuge in it in a way.

A (10:03)

Very much so. That's exactly it. But the chemistry of.

B (10:07)

Welcome to the Thomas DeLauer show, which.

A (10:10)

Will make everybody turn in, to be totally honest. I'm so truly excited to have you, by the way, because I know no one gets you. Like, I'm giddy about it, which is. Which is just.

B (10:18)

No one. No one gets me, like, physically or. No one gets me.

A (10:21)

No one gets me.

B (10:22)

No one gets me either, man.

A (10:23)

Like, you're a tough guy to get because you. You breathe rarefied air. You're one of those guys. I remember Susie Orman once said this to me, and she's like, listen, what kind of expert are you going to be? Are you going to be the one that is aspirational or the one that's relatable? You're aspirational. I know you may think you're relatable, but you're definitely the guy that's aspirational, and you're definitely the go to expert. When I want someone who's going to disseminate the information, who's going to put himself in the mix, who's going to read the studies and then apply them, and then get back to me with an answer.

B (11:03)

Ye.

A (11:03)

That's what I. I know you to do. That's why I've followed you for. Oh, God, a real freaking long time back when you probably only had, like, a million followers. So, you know, that's. That's what I definitely turn to you for. Given that, what do you think that we. Honestly, like, I'm just gonna. I'll get back to all the fun stuff and the peptides and the this and the that.

B (11:28)

We're still. We're still waiting for my answer on what I eat.

A (11:31)

Well, I was gonna say, do you think we're overthinking that because it's just a frigging, like, common sense? I tend to think that, yeah. But then maybe not. Maybe it is the high protein, high fiber. Like, what do you.

B (11:44)

I think it comes down to how people are wired. I mean, I think that we. Yeah, we really, really try to generalize this way too much. Like, all the way down to, like, a calories in, calories out thing. Like, I understand it, but, like, we're getting. We're trying to overgeneralize something for people that are highly bio individual and have, like, you just described your entire. Well, not your entire, but you described your childhood and your associations with food.

A (12:07)

Yeah.

B (12:08)

And, like, it's almost insulting to say, hey, Jillian, like, you've had this whole situation. You have this relationship with food, by the way, like, just eat less and move more like it. How invalidating does that actually feel? Right? So I think getting that off the table or on the table, I think when you look at just. Are we overthinking this? On one hand, we're overthinking it, right? Because we. We, like, are trying to piecemeal every single mechanistic thing that we possibly can.

A (12:39)

It's like they still don't know if they're counting macros or not. It's like.

B (12:43)

And it's all. At the end of the day, it's like, it's all coming back to this calorie discussion only because at the end of the day, that's just what people kind of get. And we can't expect. And this is not even to sound condescending, but we can't expect most people to understand, like, epigenetics and all these other things that are going on. And I've Learned that in 10 years of running my channel where I used to try to get so mechanistic in the weeds, and I'd realized that I would. That would get a certain number of people excited that really liked the mechanistic detail. And I'd have like a really affluent, educated audience that really liked that. And then as my brand grew, I realized that most people, it's just glazing over and it's not even insulting. Like, they don't take it personal. They're like, bro, I don't have the time to learn biochemistry right now. So the deeper that you get in the weeds and you understand, like you do understand that there are these nuances, there are these little mechanisms that do actually matter. They do matter. Do they matter? But do they matter to the big.

A (13:39)

Like B to A plus matter, or do they matter? Like infertility is on the rise, cancer's on the rise, diabetes is on the rise. Like, it's all. Everyone's dying and everyone's sick and it's a disaster matter.

B (13:52)

I think, I think there's a summation for sure, but I think generally probably not to the extent that like social media makes it out to be, you know, But I do think that there are people in the scientific community that are in their silos, their respective silos that would really believe that, hey, like this. I mean, if you think about it, it's not. No one's doing anything wrong. They're just, they're operating in their vein, right? Like, you've got someone that's an epigeneticist that is going to look at all these epigenetic links with cancer. You've got Thomas Seifert who's looking at like the metabolic theory of cancer and he's in that sil. And it's really hard for someone to say, okay, we're looking at the metabolic theory of cancer. Let me also take eight more years and learn about the somatic theory, right? And now we've got. So I'm trying to, I try to have empathy there when I understand that, like people are just in their vein of research. But what happens is in social media we have these people that are learning through chat GPT or they're learning through like a, like a very summarized. Yeah, like a summarized version of this. And they're becoming subject matter experts in a dangerous way where it's making, making it seem like it's just all these different little mechanistic pieces when in reality, like those mechanisms matter.

A (15:00)

My hope is that we could say, listen, here's the goal. Go to the doctor and get a clean bill of health and walk out the door every year. If I had to tell them in the most basic way how to do it, it's like, okay, Whole Foods. Yeah, don't Eat too much. But the chemical thing is a huge problem. Which is. Which we'll get back to. But even me, I, no matter what I touch, if I'm not eating at home and it's fully controlled, I'm like plastic glyphosate seed oil. Not that I think the seed oil conversation has gotten a bit out of control, but the processing of the seed oils for sure. Right. You know, every single thing you look at. So for me I just try to mitigate it.

B (15:43)

Yeah, it's like, how do you mitigate it?

A (15:45)

Okay, we like this little Italian place, they make a great soup. I caught them heating it up in a friggin plastic gacha. They do it right in the microwave in the freaking open kitchen.

B (15:58)

You say caught them like so did you snoop in the kitchen?

A (16:01)

No, but like it's an open kitchen, I swear to God. And they, they serve you this, the soup in a little ceramic bowl. And I guess they make it, but they batch it, heat it up in their little batched styrofoam. I almost passed out because I go for this soup at this place like once a week.

B (16:20)

And next thing you're adding cyclic dexterate.

A (16:22)

Oh my God. It helps to remove microplastics, if that's what you're going to tell me. And I was like, guys, is there any way you can actually heat this up in what you serve it to me and can I see? Because of course it gets hot. So they don't want to do that because they want to be sued.

B (16:35)

Yeah.

A (16:36)

But I was like, at the very least, can you do it for me? For sure. I try to eat home more often than I eat out. I try to choose things on the menu that I know will have less toxic residue. But even a salad, you're like, this is not organic. Sure, it's got 50 different pesticides and glyphosate and God knows where they caught this fish or where it was farm raised. And what the hell's in there?

B (16:59)

People don't go to a restaurant to get a salad for the lettuce. They go for the whatever dressing is on it. Right. So let's be real. I don't, I haven't gone to a restaurant a long time to be like, that place has the best arugula. Like, like it just doesn't happen. And my wife likes salads and she doesn't do that. It's all about like, what is the dressing. So it's just.

A (17:20)

Yeah, okay, okay, but then what do you eat? Then what do you do? What are you Doing besides cyclic Dexterin, like, are you doing still like high protein?

B (17:33)

Yeah.

A (17:33)

So I mean, I see a lot about that and it makes sense. High protein, high fiber. If I could give somebody a perfect whole food, these chemical freeze you can manage. High protein, high fiber. In my fantasy world. Am I off base here?

B (17:45)

No, I mean, I think that it's. Yeah, I eat high protein. I think that's like the most basic thing that you could underscore out of my diet. Right. But I think sometimes it's people want more like, hey, you eat high protein? Like, what's the high protein look like? What is it? Right. So it's just for me, it's usually paying attention more so to my meal timing than anything else. So I've always been that way. And I'm going to get to like what I eat. I don't want to, like dangle this.

A (18:10)

Carrot, but for me, I've got a lot of carrots. Ask.

B (18:12)

Drag this out for an hour and a half.

A (18:13)

I got a lot of stuff I got to ask you about. I need to know about peptides. I need to know about gene therapy. I need to know about stem cells. I have a lot of questions and I want to get into peptides.

B (18:23)

I definitely want to talk and I.

A (18:24)

Want to get into politics. So you got a long way to go, kid. Pace yourself.

B (18:27)

Okay, well, I'll just come right out and say that. Yeah. So cyclic dextrin and ground beef. That's my diet. Not right. You're the only person that I can actually be sarcastic with.

A (18:38)

I'll go for it.

B (18:39)

No, Like, I never get to actually, like, show like my humor. It's so funny. I always think about what's his name? The guy that was on Full House. The guy that played.

A (18:49)

Oh, gosh, the. The dad. Another guy that died.

B (18:52)

Yeah, no, the guy died. He died.

A (18:54)

Was it Bob something?

B (18:54)

Bob Saget?

A (18:55)

Yes.

B (18:56)

Like, people like my wife always jokes that I'm like, Bob Saget. She's like your YouTube channel. She's like, you're so like. And then have you ever seen Bob Saget's like, stand up comedy? He's the most like, vulgar, hilarious person. So Amber's like, you're like the Bob Saget of the health industry. You've got this channel where you like, bleep out any potential curse word. You're like super square. And then she's like. And occasionally you'll on a podcast and just be like, what the.

A (19:14)

Like, I know. You know, I think. Do you think it's because you are trying to Provide a service. And if you step outside the lines of providing information, you immediately alienate a group of people. Nobody wants to do that.

B (19:31)

That's exactly what it is. And there's a certain level of audience capture, which is a whole discussion that we can have. I mean, you're probably very familiar with that. Like, right. It's been hard for you to have to kind of. I wouldn't say pivot. Like, you haven't pivoted, but, like, you've. People see you a certain way, and it's really hard to break out of that. Right. Like, people see me a certain way, and it doesn't mean that it's a Persona or it's not who I am, but that is. That's how they see me. And in the health sphere, like, you do kind of have to take it serious, like, and that's the hard part. Like, on a certain level. Yeah, I want to be light hearted. I want to have some fun with this. But I also like the stuff that I talk about. It probably should be taken serious. And I also want to be family friendly. So, of course, if I have to go on other podcasts and let the vulgarity come out and have some fun and laugh. Laugh, of course, then hopefully people see that and see, like, I am human. But it's like, you know, you can't necessarily be yourself on a television show. Right? Like, you've got to, like, put on a little bit of a front. And so when it comes down to, like, my diet and things like that, I do talk about that legitimately. Like, I'm not gonna, like, say, like, I eat something that I don't just for the sake of being on camera. But I mean, my diet really is simple. If we just come back to it. I know, I want to answer that question so we can actually move on.

A (20:38)

Right.

B (20:39)

So I would say, like, the main staple for me really is like, 93 to 96% ground beef. Wow. Really? I'm a fan of leaner ground beef. Okay. I would say avocados. I would say strawberries. Blueberries. Say raw milk. Maybe if I don't get raw milk, at least a 2 milk. I mean, my diet's pretty darn boring.

A (20:57)

And can you tell people why the raw. Let's do that. This is such a frigging okay, ridiculous debate. Can you. Can you please. You know what? Let's lay that out.

B (21:05)

Yeah, no, let's talk raw.

A (21:07)

I mean, it's just like, raw milk.

B (21:09)

Is an interesting thing because I think.

A (21:10)

Where you're doing it for the probiotics Right.

B (21:12)

You're doing it because if kills the nutrients, if you pasteurize it, the ability to get raw milk, like, that's fine. But where we run into a problem is the mass. Like, the mass scale of it. It's hard to mass scale it. So I understand. I do sincerely understand.

A (21:28)

Because it can develop pathogens.

B (21:30)

Yeah, it's really hard to scale it. Right. So it's like, if I had a cow in my backyard and I could go drink raw milk every day, you bet your ass I would. Right. The issue comes into, like, how can you trust, like, all these other layers? Right? So I don't. I think we need to get down to brass tacks and, like, almost take the political discussion out of raw milk altogether.

A (21:51)

How in the name of God, by the way, can we. What? Yeah, how care. Like, how is this political milk?

B (21:58)

That milk is.

A (21:58)

It's been weaponized, literally, against the nominee for surgeon general. She drinks raw milk. This is.

B (22:06)

Yes. Yeah, it's. It's interesting to say the least, because. And then, you know, you're labeled if you like raw milk. Right. So it's a little bit weird of a discussion to even have at first because you're like, well, Jillian, what kind of milk do you drink? Like, unfortunately, I cannot let you into my home today.

A (22:26)

Right.

B (22:26)

We'll try again in four years.

A (22:30)

Let's talk about bras and underwear for a second. Because for years, I honestly dreaded putting them on. They're tight and they're itchy. Itchy. And they're visible under my clothes. They ride up your rear end crack. I can't stand it. They dig in. I. It's just they were never fun until I tried skims. And then everything changed. I reach for skims intimates because they're the first that actually disappear under anything I wear and feel like they're made for real bodies. No digging, no adjusting. Their soft fabric moves with you. My go to is the fits everybody T shirt bra and the boy shorts. That combo is a game changer for me. The bra gives me perfect shape without poking or squeezing or gapping. And the boy short is so smooth and comfortable, it's like wearing nothing except you feel completely supported. Skims has nailed it. Comfort, confidence, and pieces that make you feel put together without even trying. I recommend them to every friend who's still stuck in their good enough underwear drawer. So if you're tired of settling, it's time to try skimming. Trust me, once you do, there's no going back. Shop. My favorite bras and underwear@skims.com after you place your order, be sure to let them know I sent you. Select Podcast in the survey and select my show in the dropdown menu that follows. Right now the headlines are chock full of data breaches and regulatory rollbacks, making us all vulnerable. But you can do something about it. Delete Me is here to make it easy, quick and safe to remove your personal data online. Deleteme knows your privacy is worth protecting. Sign up and provide Deleteme with exactly what information you want deleted. And their experts take it from there. Deleteme isn't just a one time service. Deleteme is always working for you, constantly monitoring and removing the personal information you do not want on the Internet. For me, I feel so much more secure knowing that my personal info has been wiped from the web simply because I don't get all the robocalls. I worry far less about identity theft and so much more. So take control of your data and keep your private life private by signing up for Deleteme now at a special discount for our listeners today. Get 20% off your delete me plan by texting Jillian to 64000. The only way to get 20% off is to text Jillian to 64,000. That's Jillian to 64000 message and data rates may apply. It's just, I, this is why I no longer, I can't. I don't even understand how to talk about diet and exercise anymore. Because when raw milk becomes a political football.

B (25:18)

It'S.

A (25:18)

You get drawn into this upside down world.

B (25:22)

It is bizarre.

A (25:24)

And you start sword fighting in these political arenas because there's this bizarre intersection in the Venn diagram of health and politics. It's like another one that I, I cannot wrap my head around. I was invited onto a podcast. Don't even ask me how or why this MIT podcast. And it was through Leland Vittert, who's on News Nation, who I happen to love. He's like, hey, you know, my friends have this podcast and they'd love to have you on. I was like, MIT think you've got the wrong girl, but sure, why not? And these are brilliant individuals that are arguing for food dye. And, and here's the argument. Ready? It doesn't matter. So the argument is we looked at how much petroleum based food dye it would take to cross cause health problems and I would have to eat a semi full. And I'm thinking, are you, are you listening to yourself? You're trying to make a case of why we should keep petroleum based food Dye. Because it quote, doesn't matter which. I mean, if I was utilizing common sense, I would kind of default to. It's not just the food diet. It's the crap in the air, the crap in the water, the plastic in your soup. It's all these things. Hence me going back to the mitigate it where you can conversation. But who in the name of God is fighting for petroleum based food dye? Yeah, a fricking MIT engineer. I'm not kidding.

B (26:57)

I think it just comes down to like, we have to ask ourselves a very painful question of where are we putting our effort and energy? Like, right. Like so unfortunately we have people that have like platforms that are like spending energy on this and that's. I just, I guess when you come back down to like the simplification of it, that's where I look at. I'm like, where do I want to put my time? Where do I want to put my energy? And like, I could spend some time talking about dyes and talking about how they potentially are benign or they potentially are harmful and this and that.

A (27:25)

But like, if I've got beetroot juice, then who freaking care?

B (27:30)

Like, yeah, exactly. Where you're also going to get additional benefit. Right. Okay. So I think that's where people get a little bit hung up too, is they're getting like the hill they want to die on. Like they, they just, they want to die on that hill so bad that they're going to actually say that beetroot juice is the enemy.

A (27:50)

Yeah.

B (27:50)

Not because it's actually the enemy, but because there is another option that is. Doesn't matter. So like I try to. So one thing that I've always done with my channel and that I've always predicated my channel on is being. Is taking the high road and taking the positive spin on things. I try not to fear Monger when, you know, I used to go to grocery hauls and I wouldn't like talk about the crap products that are in the store. I talk about the good ones because I would say, hey, let's just teach people to go to the store and make a better decision.

A (28:16)

I love that.

B (28:17)

Not. Not demonize. Right. And so when I'm looking at like the alternatives, the natural, you know, like turmeric and these things, like there's extra benefits that come there. So I try to take that spin no matter what. I'm like, turmeric, cool. We get the coloring, but then we're also getting a potential anti inflammatory.

A (28:31)

Right.

B (28:32)

Like beetroot. Okay. We're also getting vasodilation we're also getting, like, nitric oxide. We're getting these beneficial things for cardiovascular health. There's a lot of cool things that happen there. And so let's just take this fight out of the equation and let's just talk about the beneficial aspects that we might get from some of these natural flavorings, or not natural flavorings, but natural colors.

A (28:50)

Right? Why do you think the fight is in the equation, like the fluoride thing?

B (28:55)

Because we like to fight.

A (28:57)

Is that it? We weren't fighting in our space 10 years ago. I mean, maybe like, you know, Tracy Anderson says small muscles, Jillian says big. I don't know, like these. Dumb, stupid.

B (29:10)

Yeah, but they were. They were. They were dumb stupid, and they were. They were big. Right, okay, but how much faster does the mind move now with social media? Right? Everything is happening faster. That means the only thing that we can start battling about is by virtue, nature, it's going to come down to these smaller and smaller and smaller things, right? Like, next we're going to be arguing about, like, who knows, like, how much biotin is in. You know, it's like we're going to argue about this stuff because, like, things are moving at such warp speed, we're finding things to argue about. And then it kind of circles back to these big arguments again, I think.

A (29:43)

But it's not, you know, what it is. Here's what it is. Here's. What I think is different is that it might have been Ken Berry fighting for Carnivore against some vegan, Right? And that's within our space. And they're fighting over the dogma of their diet or their supplement or their fitness modality. You know, it's like, no, no, I like Pilates. No, I like kettlebells. I mean, I'm sure both. Fine, do both. If you like it, do it. But now I've got an MIT scientist telling me, like, we want food dye. And I'm seeing a Surgeon general who. Or surgeon general nominee, graduated with honors as president of her class from Stanford Medical School. Being called a health influencer because she drinks raw milk. Like it's being weaponized. That's what I'm talking about. And that is why I think I have moved in such a different direction. Because I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, you don't get to do this. You don't get to capture basic biology and health and use this as a tool politically. You don't get to do it. I refuse.

B (30:54)

Yeah, no, I firmly agree with you on that. I feel like that's, you know, where sometimes people are frustrated with how I run my channel because I don't. I choose not to engage in that. I choose not to engage in that.

A (31:05)

Thank God you don't. Because then I can actually get answers to my health and fitness questions.

B (31:09)

And it's like, even the. Unfortunately, even academia has sides now, right? So it's like, can we even trust, like, people that are potentially mouthpieces for a given university? Right? So it's like, I try to be somewhat of the voice of reason in that, and sometimes that means that, like, I've had to change my mind on a lot of things, like, so that I can be a trusted source as an even keel. And I would rather, like, you got to make an omelet, you got to break a few eggs. I'd rather upset a few people by, like, saying, hey, like, you know what? Maybe I had this hard stance before. Maybe I've softened my stance on that, but now, like, I'm on a level playing field where I can provide you, like, general good direction without having, like, a political skew or having, you know, and it's. It's frustrating because, like, you were someone that I really looked up to in the fitness industry because what you stood for, like, early on was just flat out just hard work. It was hard work.

A (32:02)

It was hard work. That's it.

B (32:04)

Yeah.

A (32:04)

Just do the. I try to keep it. I always tried to keep it as simple as possible. So I would go to the use of the world on the PhDs and the MDs and be like, okay, tell me, why am I drinking methyl and blue? You know, and you guys have these crazy answers about mitochondria and electron chains. And I would spend three hours trying to understand what you're saying, and then I would go back and be like, we're drinking methyl and blue because it gives you this and it doesn't give you that. And I. It, like, sure, I would try to keep it, period. Like, and I want to get to that because I've been so skeptical of that. It's freaking fish tank cleaner. I'm having a hard time with it, for sure. But do you think if we. If we now just. We'll get back to the political stuff, but if we get back to how much of this biohacking is going on, and I'm so guilty of it. I mean, I personally love it. I just wonder if it's accessible for the masses. And I would simply also say to you, you know, they say the person that gets the best Health care or, Sorry, the worst health care are the ones with the least money and the most money is the most money. You know, you're Brian Johnson off the coast of South America editing your jeans.

B (33:15)

Yeah, for sure.

A (33:16)

It's like, hope this works out, you know? I'm also fascinated by him because I'm like, is this guy gonna drop dead tomorrow or is he Gonna Live to 200? It's, it's so cool, you know? And you, you do that. Hence the cyclic dextrin. I'm like, okay. Are you projectile vomiting?

B (33:32)

I have a, I have a confession too. I, I, I tried this morning. A and I think that's what's like messing with me a little bit.

A (33:37)

Oh, no.

B (33:38)

I actually an oxytocin nasal peptide and I think that plus the cyclic dextrin, they just made a recipe. But that, I mean. Okay, so we'll talk about peptides and we can come back. Yeah, we've got so many different things.

A (33:54)

I'm so fascinated before we go peptides.

B (33:57)

Like, it's just sitting in my brain wanting to talk about the sugar diet.

A (34:00)

Sugar diet.

B (34:01)

Go, go, go. So do you know Mark Bell? You've got to know Mark.

A (34:04)

I do know the name, but he's a fitness guy. Big fitness guy.

B (34:06)

Yeah. Mark Bell's awesome train.

A (34:07)

Didn't he train Henry Cavill for Superman?

B (34:09)

I think something he may have. I just know Mark Bell as he's become a really like, trusted friend in the industry. He's someone that's like big fitness guy though, right? Yeah, he was a powerlifter. So, yeah, I can't remember what records he had. Like crazy records. Like thousand pound bench press. I think he was one of the first person people to like break thousand pounds on the bench. I can't remember, man.

A (34:27)

I swear to God. They like run 100 miles and bench a thousand.

B (34:30)

Okay, that' a different discussion we need to talk about because, you know, 100 mile run. Vincenzo, who's sitting in the back room, he and I were talking about this about like the Goggins, the, the campaigns and like, what are we, what are we validating here? So please write that down because I would love to talk.

A (34:46)

Okay. Sugar diet. I'm with you.

B (34:48)

I'm back to that sugar diet. So I noticed that Mark Bell was like, he posted something and I almost thought it was a joke, satire, like a joke. He's like, this is my breakfast. And it was Sour Patch Kids. And I'm just like, mark is someone that I have, I wouldn't, I don't want to Say coached, because that sounds. That sounds like I. I have some ownership over it. But he and I have bounced ideas. Like, we. We talk all the time, like, weekly at least, and usually in the vein of relatively low carb, how to time our carbs properly. Right. So all of a sudden, I see him just like, Sour Patch Kids for breakfast, and I'm like, okay, this has gotta be a joke. And he's talking about crazy energy and this and that, and he's linking out to this guy, Cole Robinson, who I remember. Do you remember the Snake diet?

A (35:29)

Oh, my God. T. No.

B (35:31)

Okay. Yeah. Because you've been around the block, and you're probably just, like, numbed.

A (35:34)

I just kind of.

B (35:35)

Yeah, the Snake diet was like, okay, we're just gonna consume water and salt, right?

A (35:39)

And he.

B (35:40)

He calls it perfectly fine guy. Like, I got, like, Cole. Like, he's actually got some inspirational stuff, but it's just like, he was basically talking about fasting is what it was.

A (35:49)

Okay.

B (35:50)

Anyway, so then he started talking about this sugar diet thing, and people are getting crazy shredded, just consuming ridiculously high amounts of sugar throughout the course of the day and then maybe having a little bit of protein at night. Now. Okay, it's working. And I don't.

A (36:06)

Because they're working out like crazy. Because the insulin's a growth hormone.

B (36:10)

There's a lot of. So this is, like, a perfect example of where, like, it probably does work. And there's lots of little, like, mechanisms that we can pull on, but sometimes we miss the forest for the trees.

A (36:20)

So the goal is to be shredded. And I'm arguably utilizing this bananas. Insulin surge and then training on it.

B (36:28)

Yes.

A (36:28)

And it's functioning as, like, an HGH boost kind of a thing.

B (36:31)

If I had to guess, it's similar. So there's something called FGF21, which is fibroblast growth factor 21.

A (36:38)

Okay. Okay.

B (36:39)

FGF21 elevates after, like, seven, eight days of a fast, Right? It starts to elevate, and it is a pretty miraculous thing. It basically triggers uncoupling. So you've got, like, massive amount of brown fat activation, like, significant amounts of, like, body heat, basically.

A (36:55)

Can you explain why that's good, by the way, for just. If anybody.

B (36:57)

It's not always good, but it's good for fat loss. Right. So if you think of it as uncoupling, so mitochondrial un. Uncoupling. Dr. Ben Bickman explained this super well. Think of, like, the engine of a car and think of the transmission, and then think of, like, when you are in Neutral, you are uncoupled. Okay. So imagine like you've got energy moving down like a drivetrain down through the transmission connecting to the positrack rear, rear end of your right probably. You look like a, like a Chevelle type person, you know, so you got.

A (37:28)

I do love a muscle car. I'm guilty as charged.

B (37:31)

But if so when you rev the motor like the car's gonna go. Right. Okay, but if you put it in neutral and you rev the motor, what's gonna happen? Right. So that is a perfect way to describe what an uncoupling protein is. So an uncoupling protein is not necessarily advantageous for energy manufacturing, but it is advantageous for releasing energy as heat. So it's the mitochondria's way of saying like energy surplus kind of like dissipated as heat. So it could be tremendous for fat loss. But the problem is a lot of the brown fat research. So brown fat is high in these uncoupling proteins. Right.

A (38:09)

Hence why everybody was cold plunging.

B (38:11)

Yeah, they wanted brown fat. Problem is is most of the brown fat literature is in mice who have way more amounts of brown fat than humans do. We have like a little patch in like the back of. Right. However, when this FGF 21 is activated, like abnormal amounts do activate. Right. So there is a noticeable thing and there's some studies that have kind of compared like high sucrose like EU caloric type diets. But I think where what's happening with most people and like Mark's sort of claim to fame on it. And I want to make sure that I'm saying this with respect to Mark because as I've talked to Mark about this, he's not doing it to be a freak. He's doing it because like I'm willing to test anything mentality.

A (38:51)

I know you guys all to hence you Peter Attia, same thing. Remember when he did rap Myson and he's like I've got these all sorts of.

B (39:02)

I forgot about that.

A (39:03)

I'm sorry, go ahead.

B (39:04)

I forgot about that. I keep looking up at my, my picture in the mirror here in the, in the TV in my monitor and I'm like I look so pale. No you don't. I look like a.

A (39:13)

You don't believe vomit. We all know why. It's oxytocin nicotine, dextrin experiment of the morning. Sorry.

B (39:21)

And a sugar diet.

A (39:23)

No. Okay, good.

B (39:25)

So yeah, so I mean very full disclosure, like utmost respect for Mark because he's actually saying like I'm going to try this and do it like he's, he's willing to do that. Okay. And he's actually getting crazy shredded on it. But I mean, there's a lot of different things that are going on there. Mark also is on, you know, trt.

A (39:42)

So that makes a big difference out of here.

B (39:43)

Well, he's. Which is.

A (39:45)

This is the Dana White conversation. Listen, I met Dana and I have a huge amount of respect for him. But you, you are on trt. Like, it's very difficult to extrapolate different things you're doing when you're on T, for sure.

B (40:01)

I think. And he acknowledges that. So. But I mean, if we put it all in just kind of one spot, you've got. Yes, he's, you know, also metabolically healthy because he's been training for decades and decades.

A (40:11)

He has a crazy amount of muscle to use the sugar, basically.

B (40:14)

Yeah. And he's been low carb for a very long amount of time. So I always have this contrast theory where anytime you like, rapidly change something, like if you're somewhat of a healthy person, like you're gonna have a response like it's a, it's a, it's a hormetic stress to a certain degree. You've got someone that has been low carb for a very long period of time, then all of a sudden has high carb, you know, low fat also, like. Yeah, I mean, low fat diets work for fat loss, but it's not necessarily gonna be good for long term metabolic.

A (40:45)

What do the biomarkers look like after three months of this?

B (40:48)

So it's. The point is, is that like we just go wherever. Like, keto's dead. Okay, let's talk about sugar diet. And Mark is able to kind of test these things himself. The thing I love about Mark is that he'll always sort of, he's, he'll find the positive in things no matter what. Right. And people that follow Mark are not necessarily following Mark for health advice. They're more so following him for how do I get big, shredded and strong? So it's a different, a different vein. So I did a video and I let Mark know that I was going to do a video. I said, mark, I'm going to do a video and I'm going to. It's going to sound like I'm putting you on blast, but I'm actually just kind of reverse engineering what you're actually doing so that people understand it. Um, and I think he made a, a video rebuttal back on it. And again, this is all like, with each Other's permission. Like, that's the thing that I like about a person. Like Mark is say what you want about the diet that he's doing is like Mark can say like, hey, Thomas, like, are you cool if I do a rebuttal video on this? And we have like a public discourse on this. But anyway, so like me coming from the low carb space, I looked at that and I'm like, okay, like if you're overweight and you're already insulin resistant, this could be very problematic. Right?

A (41:56)

Catastrophic, I would imagine. And there's nutrients in that food.

B (42:00)

That's the. Okay, I'm glad you mentioned that because that's like the piece that I think people will start to overlook. Right? But now I'm seeing people that are taking the approach with fruit and juices and I'm like, okay, so now we're back to juice fasting. And this is the stuff where I think at the end of the day, like we're just going to keep circling the drain. That's the discussion. So this isn't, this isn't to bash the sugar diet. I think it's interesting. It's, it's, it's bizarre.

A (42:25)

Oh my God, let me bash it for you. It's the worst ever. But no, I'm bashing it. I will bash it. Sorry, Mark, we don't know each other. Are you out of your mind?

B (42:36)

But I see the fact that like we, we're just circling the drain. Like we're just gonna come back, we're gonna keep trying a different thing, you know, and, but see, this is why. But they all kind of work.

A (42:46)

End up saying, can you eat whole food? Don't eat too much. Hence the concept of the calories in calories obvious. Not the psychological component. Cuz that's how a very different beast. Without question. But the food part, like just eat whole food.

B (43:00)

Okay, well, and I totally try not to completely agree. I think we under. And I think we underestimate the food matrix. You know, so it's like you can take any direction and get in the weeds with it. But like, I think we also, we underestimate like the power of the food matrix and whole foods in their actual whole form. Right. Because we've tried to. Like Brian Johnson's a great example. Okay, let's take all these things that are good in the diet and let's put it into a soup, right? And if you have enough hours and enough dollars, then you could probably do that and you could artificially remodel that. But the end of the day, like the food matrix, like whatever the powers that be in the universe or God or whoever you want to look at, has created these things in a form where there's energetic balance for us to consume them in their whole form. And we can scientifically debate that until we're blue in the face. And I think almost every scientist will say, well, like they probably all those nutrients and all those things work together for a reason.

A (43:51)

Right. And the nutrients are the most bioavailable in the food, essentially, is what you're saying. And I, I've been guilty of supplementing a million things, but the reason I do it is because I'm like, okay, is my diet varied enough? Did I eat enough Wild caught Sam this week for my Omega 3s? No. I'm hiding from the sun because it's aging me, even though I know I should get sun. But then I take my vitamin D. All right, I'm eating protein, but am I getting enough protein? Okay, let me take my collagen peptides for my skin. Like, it just. I worry that I'm not getting a varied enough diet and I worry about depleted soil and I worry about excess oxidative stress. So that's what I think.

B (44:31)

The stress is actually creating more oxidative stress. So you gotta worry about that too.

A (44:35)

Do you supplement? Well, I mean, are. You're supplementing, But I get that you're like messing with different things for nutrition.

B (44:41)

I go through phases where, like, I'll. I'll rampantly experiment on things, but like, I think there's a difference between, like, what's my normal supplementation, like, what's my normal, and then what's in an experimental category. Right. Because like I. Yep, I will experiment with certain things, like obviously, like peptides. I've, I've had some fun experimenting with certain ones, and there's some that I feel comfortable being like. I just don't know if the juice is worth the squeeze. Right. We can talk about those.

A (45:02)

But I definitely want to get into that because it's also like, where are you getting them? Yeah, I mean, you know, oh, there's.

B (45:07)

A great dude that's right behind the taco truck.

A (45:09)

No, did you find him?

B (45:11)

Like, he also does vasectomies in the.

A (45:13)

Back of his truck at the dnc. Yeah. Oh my gosh, I think I was there for that. I remember that there was also an abortion there too, that you could get. Do you see? Do you see? You see?

B (45:27)

Anyway, can I get some water really quick?

A (45:28)

Yes, Lori, can we get a little more water right yeah, so, so look at. All right, so let's shift gears to the future of wellness and longevity. There's so much out there. But what really is exciting to me in theory is coarse peptides because they're technically accessible at the moment. I mean you could get BPC 157 if you are, you know, injured my elbow snowboarding. Brigham Bueller sent me BPC157. I don't know if. Have you met him by the way? If not, you need to meet him. He's awesome. He runs a company called Ways to. Well, and he has like a compounding pharmacy called Revive. Like super cool guy. And he'll do stem cells.

B (46:15)

I have plastics for the win, by the way.

A (46:18)

I know plastics. I know. This is what happens. This is because this is not my studio. It's Howie Mandel studio. And you know, Howie Mandel, for all of his neuroses, is not afraid of microplastics. I'm gonna need to scare him.

B (46:31)

Well, I mean again, here I keep hijacking going in weird directions, but we'll table microplastics, but it's, it is a hard one to avoid. So they're just.

A (46:39)

Yeah, okay, but, but then you've got like. Oh, what can help you remove it? Sweating and high fiber. And like, would you. This is where gummy bears are not going to help you detox.

B (46:50)

Soluble fiber gummy bears.

A (46:53)

Get out of here. By the way, my 13 year old is going to watch this and he's going to be like, mom, till our says I can have soluble fiber gummy bears. Okay, so here's, here's what I've been taking. Thanks to Brian Johnson, I and the.

B (47:11)

Guy with the vasectomy clinic behind the top.

A (47:12)

Yes, a hundred percent. I started taking cerebral lysine.

B (47:19)

Okay.

A (47:19)

Well, I had to ship it in from Austria.

B (47:21)

Yeah. But Brian helped me do it and I think that you and I probably. I, I've tried that too. But then they stopped being able to get it as of about three weeks ago. Right.

A (47:28)

Stop it. Oh, see, I have a stash.

B (47:30)

I stashed on it. I stockpiled and it was for my wife's tbi. She got kicked ahead in the horse. Kicked in the head by her horse, but keep going. So cerebralysis is awesome. We can talk about that.

A (47:38)

Okay.

B (47:38)

Yeah.

A (47:39)

So for, for anybody watching, they give it to stood. They give it to stroke victims in Europe, but we don't have it here. Then I screwed up my elbow and I took body protective compound BPC157 to help me heal my elbow. I haven't gotten into this oxytocin nasal spray. I did start taking very recently, like epamorelin, which is like an HGH precursor, I guess, because I.

B (48:05)

It's a GHRP.

A (48:06)

Okay, so listen, am I. I could grow a third nipple or I could live to 200.

B (48:13)

Got a guy for that too.

A (48:14)

What do you. What do you think? Is this the. And by the way, you can't just get it because the friggin FDA is beholden to. Yeah, I don't want to say. You know what I always say is it actually gets me suppressed if I say it.

B (48:32)

Yeah.

A (48:32)

If I say bp, you guys put it together. Two words. One starts with a B, one starts with a picture, but it's getting suppressed. So they can, you know, Merck can trademark all these apparently like 200 different peptides, so they can't be compounded, I guess right now.

B (48:48)

And yeah, the peptide, the peptide world is, is weird. And it's, it's constantly changing in terms of like the bureaucratic piece of it.

A (48:55)

I didn't know you couldn't get cerebralyzin now.

B (48:57)

Oh, cerebralycin. Like it's. Yeah, it's. Yeah, it's definitely. That's an interesting one. And then I would caution with cerebralysin too because like too much neuroplasticity can be bad too. Right? So like dude, every six months, 10.

A (49:09)

Doses over 20 days.

B (49:12)

Yeah, this is. And you know, it's like we may even have to like cut talking about this quite frankly, because it's like since it's off like so off label if you're talking about dosing strategy. But like cerly is a very. It's interesting that it's so heavily used in the EU and not used here. Right. Because like there are a number of things, like for tbi, for stroke, traumatic.

A (49:34)

Brain injury, where it actually plays sometimes it's just in case because you have.

B (49:38)

Like a tissue area of the brain that's essentially dead and you're trying to get blood flow to that area and you want neuroplasticity. Like neuroplasticity is where you're like, you know, growing new neurons and new connections and. But obviously in like a. A healthy person that doesn't have an injury like taking that can be potentially, I don't want to say catastrophic, but you can like maybe get undesirable outcomes. Right. Where you're like too much neuroplasticity might make it so you can't even focus. Right. Okay, but that's a separation. You Know, separate that for another conversation. If we come back to the peptides thing.

A (50:07)

Okay.

B (50:08)

A lot of these peptides have been around for a long time and used in various research settings. And then I don't know why some of them, you know, like BPC157 I think is closer to getting like approved for other uses compared to some of these others. But like I have a doctor that literally will write a prescription. They just have to be compounded. Right. So they can't be like, you're not going to have a regular pharmaceutical company create these peptides yet. Right. It might come, but now they're starting.

A (50:32)

A war on compounding pharmacies. The GLP one.

B (50:35)

Well, I was just going to say because like, I mean back when I remember like the peptides when I was in my 20s, I remember like trying to build muscle and messing around with peptides, like, and getting them from like bodybuilding forums and playing. Right. It was like kind of just. You just kind of went that route.

A (50:49)

Very.

B (50:50)

I don't recommend that. Right. But it's like dumb kid doing those things. And I remember like GLP1s being like a research peptide like that people would go and they would use it for bodybuilding competitions to like cut. Right. And then, then it started coming into like the compounding world and now it's, you know, straight up prescription, Pfizer, whatever it is, you know. Yep.

A (51:10)

And you can't titrate the dose.

B (51:12)

You cannot titrate the dose. And I feel like if we talk about the proper utilization of GLP1s and I'm. If someone is going to use it, like they need to be able to titrate the dose. That is imperative.

A (51:25)

That's like, that's where I've arrived at. Yeah.

B (51:28)

It is imperative. It is imperative that you titrate the dose because like you're just going to, I mean, you're crashing people's metabolisms and like a conspiracy mindset of mine starts going like, are we trying to crash everyone's metabolisms? Because like, I don't quite frankly have a problem with GLP1 receptor agonists. I don't. I think that they have a potential use case, but when they're in a stuck dose, that's problematic. So and that makes it. And then you're talking to people that don't have the ability to like, you know, they can't have these open conversations with their physician where they just be like, am I taking too much? And all that they have the training in is based on what's in front of them. Right. So it gets really difficult. So again, we can table that one because, like, that's a get in. Gets into a different category. But a lot of these peptides are still reasonable. To get in, like an absolutely legal fashion, you just have to have a doctor that has a connection with compounding pharmacies. Now, where it stands as of this day, like day of recording, I actually don't know because it's flip flop flat back and forth. I remember back in December, I remember they came down hard on peptides and then they sort of overturned it. And then peptides were like kind of allowed again. Right. So it was.

A (52:30)

I don't think they are right now. And the only reason I say that is because there are pharmacies that are doing it under the pretense that it's like a gray area. And so, for example, my friend Brigham Bueller, he's like, I, I'm too big now in the space. He had to stop compounding them. And he refers me to smaller compounding pharmacies. And he's trying to work with the fda.

B (52:53)

Yeah.

A (52:54)

So that compounding pharmacies can make peptides for people legally, but because certain powers that be want to control the space, they don't want it to happen.

B (53:06)

Yeah.

A (53:07)

And same with, there's like a war on peptides, there's a war on stem cells. And I'm. I'm just looking at this stuff thinking, if I had a stroke, I would hope the appropriate medical professional would be giving me cerebral lysine instead of me importing it from Austria, learning from Brian Johnson and injecting it into my ass cheek in the bathroom, which. But this is not advice. This is what I've been.

B (53:30)

Because. Did Brian Johnson actually talk about it? Yeah, because I've known about super license just for, like, just through, quite frankly, just like the veteran community who, like, dealt with like a lot of guys and like, they're. I didn't know that Brian Johnson actually talked about it.

A (53:44)

Okay, so Brian Johnson had a video on his Instagram with a horse needle injecting himself in the ass. Which, I mean, if you follow Brian Johnson, he's done this a million times over. But nevertheless, he's like, this is arguably one of the most, most impactful cognitive performance enhancers I've utilized. And I was like, wait, what? I started paying attention. And again, to just give it a little more context, I have an APOE4 Alzheimer's gene. I have always struggled extremely with memory. Yeah, always. At 27, people would say, like, we met we went to dinner with so and so and I didn't remember. It's very bizarre. It's a little bit scary. And as I've gotten a little bit older, the necessity to have that verbal fluidity, the ability to recall, the processing speed, my need for it has increased work wise. And my age does not lend itself to getting better with regard to mental acuity. So I'm thinking, okay, I'm definitely going to be an Alzheimer's candidate, there's no question. And then I got a full body MRI and they found tiny. You tell me why, by the way.

B (54:56)

I.

A (54:56)

In other words, like, I think there's something there with regard to maybe something I was forced to take that I shouldn't have. And this is all speculation and conspiracy theory. However, little white matter lesions on my brain. Interesting, right? Interesting. I don't smoke and I have high blood pressure. Exercise, I eat well. So like, what could potentially cross the blood brain barrier and attack your brain? I mean, I don't know. I don't even say because again, we don't need this to get suppressed. But I found it real frigging weird. So at that point I'm watching Brian Johnson's video on cerebralizing and he's like, this is, you know, the most impactful thing I did. So I messaged Brian and I was like, what? I can't, I can't find this. I called Brigham, he's like, I can't make it. And he's like, I can't make it. And I don't know anybody who does make it. Brian connected me to a place out of Austria that shipped it to me in the mail. And then Brigham taught me like how to dose it and how to use it and monitored in his team, like monitor, thank God, monitors me. And so I have like a little 5 millimeter milliliter or whatever the hell it is. Milliliter friggin syringe. I do it every six months, 10 doses every other day. So 10 doses total, every other day. I'm not. Again, this is dark. I don't f with this, but that's what I've been doing and I've been through two cycles of it so far.

B (56:23)

Do you feel a difference?

A (56:25)

I'm doing so much stuff. It's tough to say though, right? So here's what I'm doing now. I'm doing tons of creatine because I'm like, oh, cognitive benefits. Okay, I'm in. I never touched it because I was like, I don't want to get big. I don't you know that whole old school bodybuilding bro thing, I fully took the bait on and I was like, I don't want acne. Now we know that's not true. I don't lose my hair. Now we know that's not true. And I want bloating. And now we know that's not true. But it's like it was true when I looked into it years ago. That's what was the sort of parting line about creatine. Now, oh my God, you get all this, you cellular energy and, and none of these side effects are real. And it's really important for cognitive performance. So I'm taking that, I'm taking the cerebral lies and every now and again the nicotine gum. I strategically dose my caffeine. So who the problem is? How do you extrapolate one thing? So I can't, I can't, I can't tell you which one or if not. But I do notice that I can be quicker and more clear provided I've slept with all of these different tools.

B (57:30)

For sure, for sure.

A (57:31)

They make a difference. And the BPC157, my wife has this autoimmune condition that's really rare called anitoderma. And I was like, all right, if we million doctors tried to figure it out and it just affects her skin.

B (57:46)

Yeah.

A (57:46)

And so long story short, I was like, okay, I've interviewed a million different gastroenterologists and rheumatologists. So what's going to cause this? Is it something in the environment? Let's clean out the environment. Is it a leaky gut, A permeable gut? Maybe I put it on oral BPC157. Game changer. Yeah, game changer.

B (58:10)

Well, that's like, like that's where I think, like, I think that the oral version of BPC is much easier to come by. Much easier. It's a, it's a lower barrier to entry for most people. But all that aside, as far as how it actually works, I mean, it's produced in the gut, right? So BPC157 is produced in the gut and its soul. I shouldn't say it's soul, but its primary purpose is to repair the gut as the gut gets damaged. Right. Because the gut goes through damage. Right. The gut. And this is where I have, at the risk of sounding like just typical fitnessy type marketing, like a leaky gut is a very, very real thing. And unfortunately that term has been taken by like Internet marketers and like, so.

A (58:51)

It'S, you can't even use it in, in like I invested in a supplement company and you can't even say it. No.

B (58:56)

It's so frustrating because it's a very real thing. Right. It's called intestinal permeability.

A (59:00)

Right.

B (59:00)

And the way that, that in a research setting oftentimes they literally induce inflammation is by using lipopolysaccharides, lps, which is the molecule that's created by gram negative bacteria and gets crosses through a permeable gut. So inflammation at its very core in a lot of situations comes from a leaky gut. And it's unfortunate that like it's been over marketed and overhyped. I shouldn't say overhyped, it's just been over marketed because it is a very real thing. And like gut gut barrier integrity is one of the most important things. And that's what's interesting about BPC157 in an oral form is it probably gets to the epicenter a little bit faster. So I'm a big fan of BPC157. Like I've done videos talking about my own personal experience with like, shoulder injuries and using it in localized spots. It works. But where it's really designed to work is in the gut. So I feel like when people are dealing with more just brain foggy, like kind of inflammatory type feelings, a lot of times it could be stemming from the gut in the first place. So. That's right, because it's just.

A (60:02)

Yeah, of course.

B (60:03)

But if you say that, you sound like just like you're just another health guru snake oil salesman, but.

A (60:08)

TikTok influencer.

B (60:09)

Yep. Got my bone broth. I love bone broth.

A (60:17)

I was actually listening to something this morning about bone broth again. I was like, oh, for God's sake, already with the bone broth.

B (60:23)

It's a great food. It's just. I just don't know if it needs to like.

A (60:26)

Of course I know. Oh, my God. It was bone broth everything five years ago. Was it? Or something. So of those peptides, what do you think the general public should be looking at? Or should we be looking at these things on a case by case basis? Like, okay, digestive problems, injury, traumatic brain injury, stroke, or is there something there that would just make Thomas DeLauer put it in his nasal passages on a regular freaking Monday morning? Or is it Tuesday? Oh, my God, is it Wednesday day?

B (60:58)

Which is why I need it. So oxy. Yeah, so oxytocin, you know, obviously is like a, a hormone that's released when you're like. So it's, it Actually can make you more personable and make you like just a little more relaxed. And it's not, it's not like I've never taken it before. Like, I actually have used it in the evening time just to kind of. It actually really does help you just feel kind of calm. Like exactly what you would think oxytocin is like, right. So like oxytocin is a peptide that or a, A hormone that is secreted. Like when you're around your family and you're feeling that love and connection. Right.

A (61:30)

Hugs, sex.

B (61:31)

And it's like a. Well, all the things. It's even kind of somewhat, even the opposite of sex in some ways. It's like, it's much more just about connection. Right. And like oxytocin is such a powerful hormone when it comes to like even male drive. Right. So like the drive, yes, it comes from testosterone, but male drive is also, especially if you're like a family oriented person, it truly like they've seen like, okay, you're having increases in oxytocin when you are working for a purpose that is really for those that you love and care about. So like, it translates into a lot of things. So I actually find it's been like one of the biggest, like nootropic hacks for me is it's like it actually helps me have this drive that I can't explain where it's just like I want to work harder for my family.

A (62:12)

That's awesome.

B (62:12)

Which is something that. So that's, you know, neither here nor there. Yeah, right. I need to. But I've also talked to people that had like taken oxytocin and have like zero impact from it whatsoever. I've never gotten nausea from it. I think it's just kind of joking with the fact that like. Yeah, that could like, what a. What a day. What a day to just experiment. You know, I figure you're cool.

A (62:31)

Like, you'll just like super cool and fascinated by it. So would you recommend it for the normal person? And how would you tell them?

B (62:39)

Peptides or oxytocin?

A (62:40)

Peptides. Okay.

B (62:41)

Yeah. Because oxytocin, I think is something that is a little bit more like if you're into the nootropic world, like there's that whole.

A (62:46)

Actually.

B (62:46)

So, yeah, I think you would probably like it.

A (62:48)

Really?

B (62:48)

I think you'd find that buying this on Amazon. Hell no. No, no, no, no, no, no. Definitely don't buy.

A (62:54)

Right. Like, where are we getting this stuff?

B (62:57)

I. So I have a concierge doc which is a whole different discussion. Right. Like, okay, like, I'm blessed that, like, I can afford a concierge doc. But it also sucks that, like, in order for me to have an, like an intimate, like, dialogue with my physician that actually allows me to, like, talk about, like, my goals and what I'm after and my problems.

A (63:17)

Yep.

B (63:18)

I have to pay an arm and a leg. Like, it kind of sucks. Right. Like, however, like, this is my life. This is my. Also my career. It's definitely worth me investing in. So. Yeah. So he's awesome with that. Like, he's not going to, like, be irresponsible with it, but he's combing.

A (63:33)

Pharmacy can make it.

B (63:33)

Yeah, absolutely.

A (63:34)

Got it.

B (63:34)

Yeah. So it's like something so respectable.

A (63:37)

Doctor was a connection to a compounding pharmacy. And there are still. Whether it's legal or not, I know there are still pharmacies that are making it, waiting to get. Get in trouble. And the bigger players, I can say, like my friend Brigham, are not doing it right now, but are working on getting the FDA to allow them to do it. What do you think about gene therapy? Have you seen this?

B (64:04)

Yes, I know, I know what it is. I, you know, I've had some, some experts talk about it.

A (64:08)

We should really. Maybe you could explain it because I don't fully think I understand it.

B (64:11)

Talking about, like, Follistatin and things.

A (64:13)

Okay. So somebody even reached out to me the other day and they're like, oh, I'd love to do a collab on gene therapy. And I'm thinking, wait.

B (64:23)

What?

A (64:24)

And it had to do with angiogenesis. So for sure, more blood vessels, helping your body create more blood vessels. And then they started running through, like over six months. You'll have X amount more vasculature. And so obviously, like, okay, well, I don't, you know, I would definitely. Again, going back to the cognitive piece, I don't want that small blood vessel death, death in my brain. I certainly don't do enough hit training, which I should be doing to prevent that without all of this craziness. But nevertheless, hair loss, they're shooting it into people's heads for hair loss or whatever the hell they're doing. And I just thought, like, okay, again, is this going to be dystopian and people are going to end up getting super sick from this, or is this the future of never aging, never losing your hair?

B (65:18)

I think there's. There's a. There, there.

A (65:21)

Okay.

B (65:22)

Right. But I think that, like, when you start getting into messing with your genes, I get a little bit concerned.

A (65:28)

Yeah. Right.

B (65:29)

So Follistatin is a good example and that's. Follistatin can be found in eggs in like small amounts. Right? So like on one hand you're like, okay, like this can't be that bad. But when you take a high concentration of it, it's a myostatin inhibitor, essentially. So myostatin is like, have you ever seen those Belgian blue co cows that just are ridiculously jacked? Have you ever seen a picture of those?

A (65:49)

Okay, yeah, yeah. So yeah, I thought that was fake though.

B (65:53)

No, no, no, that's legit. So those are Belgian blue cows, they have a myostatin deficiency, which means that they, the myostatin is actually like our rate limiter on our muscle growth. Right? So like myostatin is going to prevent us from our muscles getting like too big and too strong for our tendons and things like that. It's actually a very important thing. Belgian blue cows, they or, or something along the lines of like, they just don't produce much of it. Right. They don't produce much myostatin or they have a myostatin inhibition gene where it basically makes it so that they can just continue to get jacked.

A (66:24)

Every guy in the world right now watching this is like, how do I limit my myostatin?

B (66:28)

Yeah, except newsflash, women usually don't like super gigantically overly muscle dudes. So it's like, are you doing it for. What are you doing it for?

A (66:34)

Got it.

B (66:35)

But it's like when you, when you look at like the Belgian blue cows, like, okay, yeah, there are situations where they like will break their legs and things like, point is, is that if you're looking at Follistatin as like a human, you are looking at a degree of myostatin inhibition. So like I'm like. And it's a very long acting treatment where it has an effect for a long period of time for like six to 12 months. And one thing that I've kind of learned about sort of the scientific method is like, you need to be able to take a variable, isolate a variable, and you need to be able to work with that variable. Right? Like you have to be able to know like, what am I doing? The concern I have with something that like takes that long to have an effect on your body is it's hard to tell what's working and what's not. And also if you have a negative effect with it, then it's not like you can just like get it out of your system. I don't think people are going to have like this crazy negative effect immediately. But I have concerns with gene therapy. I certainly do. And it's one of the reasons, like I've had multiple opportunities to get it done for free. And just, it's the one that I've said like, no, you know, I'm not going to.

A (67:38)

Yeah. This is where I then sit back and wait and see if I'm a fast follower in this space. It's like, okay, let's see what happens to Brian Johnson and these other people that are doing it. And if it works, great, like I can spare five years and see how it goes. But it's fascinating what we're screwing around with. Like, I saw an article the other day and I can't remember some journal or something about how a doctor is going to give women back their 25 year old ovaries and they'll never go through menopause. What, is that really what my kid's gonna experience if we don't destroy the planet before then? Could there be a human.

B (68:19)

Yeah.

A (68:19)

Alive today that will live to 200 with stuff like that?

B (68:22)

Do you really want to live to be 200?

A (68:24)

If you have good quality of life? Maybe.

B (68:26)

Yeah. It's like, I don't know. And I look at it like, I mean, I think that we're. The more that we just try to f. With things like, the more that I think stuff is just going to kind of go wrong.

A (68:37)

I mean, I feel like a Frankenstein situation. I get it.

B (68:41)

But I also acknowledge the fact that like responsibly, like it's a delicate dance of like, how much are we with it? But also like, where is it okay to have a crutch?

A (68:51)

Yep.

B (68:52)

And society has either like one or the other. They either like are hard nosed against a crutch where they're just like, well, no, I'm going to do everything that I can to not ever touch a pharmaceutical or a peptide or this or that. I'm going to just be this direction. Then you have people that are like, okay, like I'm willing to experiment and kind of have this approach. I mean, at the end of the day I think that all of these peptides, all of these little things that we're trying to do and little levers that we're trying to pull, kind of trying to play God in a way and it feels a little screwed up. But I think if you go with it with the right frame of mind where like, okay, this is performance minded, like I'm trying to achieve some more performance here or I'm trying to get A better quality of life here. I think it's a little bit safer. But when you're trying to like, actually with your age, it just feels like, it feels weird. It feels weird to me. Like, I want to live to be 200. I'm gonna. It just seems like there's a biological clock that's set for a reason.

A (69:49)

You're defying God and there's gonna be.

B (69:52)

And do we really want people? Like, is the. Can the planet sustain people living longer? Like, you know what I mean? Like, there's a, there's a rate limiting system, a self regulating system that's in place. And at the risk of sounding like woo woo and almost like spiritual with it, but when you get to that, it's like, I think these things are kind of here for a reason.

A (70:07)

And like Sebastian Younger said not about this in particular, but about the fact that like the greatest gift he could give his family was actually dying one day.

B (70:15)

Yes. And it's in. Ram Dass talks about these kinds of things. And if you go down like any spiritual rabbit hole, like, whether you want to talk quantum physics or you want, like, it doesn't matter, like, you can still talk this, like, being, okay, this is going to sound bad, but being okay with the fact that you are going to die someday and actually submitting to that allows you to live your life the way you want to live your life and it allows you to enjoy that time. And when I see people trying to live to 200, I see this poor person trying to hold on to this and this ego that's constricted so much to a point where you're forgetting the point of life, like contrast. If you know you're gonna die someday, you enjoy your life, right? And that's not saying that I'm gonna die, but the point is, is like something amazing happened when my son was born. And I talk about this with people in circles that are outside of the health community. And I was like, this is so wild. Like, the moment my son was born, I stopped having a fear of death. And people are like, well, what do you mean? And there's a lot of people that were like, really? I got more scared that I was gonna die. Like, I thought, like, what, what, what happened to my family? I'm like, certain there you have a logical, like, framework you gotta provide. But like, there is a, there is a sense of like, okay, I helped bring life into this earth. And I've seen like the full cycle. Like, I've seen like I was born, okay, now I've Seen my son be born. And I like, I saw the beauty of, like, life and death, and it's what's hard to describe. But that feeling I can't take away. Like, I don't. I don't want to go die. Don't get me wrong. But the fact that you can be at peace with the fact that someday is going to happen, it allows me to live my days to the fullest. I want to be there so it could happen tomorrow, you know, so imagine going through every.

A (71:59)

But you're not. You're not pushing the river. You've accepted that you're part of this sort of divine process.

B (72:06)

But imagine, like, stressing out so much because you want to hold on and live to be 200 and then get hit by a bus on your way to the stone.

A (72:15)

Oh, my God. And that's what always happens. Happens, right?

B (72:17)

So it's like. And I know, and I know that's true.

A (72:21)

That would absolutely be the thing that happens.

B (72:23)

Right? It's just like. Yeah.

A (72:25)

And you've injected yourself with horse needles every day and you've like.

B (72:29)

And it may have your jeans and.

A (72:31)

So if it's drank the raw milk.

B (72:32)

Totally. I think if it. If you notice that it actually improves your quality of life in this moment, then it is worth it. But when you start once again borrowing from tomorrow for today.

A (72:44)

Yes, I see the thing come the.

B (72:45)

Full circle back to, like, my crazy novel Nauseous Spiel earlier, when I probably don't even remember what I was saying. I was so sick feeling I hung in there, and I feel much better.

A (72:53)

You know, this. This does bring up a couple of things for me that we. We touched upon and promised to circle back to, which is the guys that run the hundred miles, the Goggins, the Cam, the Haynes. What are they?

B (73:04)

Cam Haynes just. I mean, like, Rogan was talking about. He just ran 250 miles across Arizona with a broken foot. And I love Cam. Like, he's awesome.

A (73:10)

But, like, what are you running from? Is my question.

B (73:13)

Yes. So, okay, so I know I have respect, of course. Totally.

A (73:17)

What are we really talk. Because this is not fitness.

B (73:19)

What are we. What are we? Like, I see someone that is seeking something. Not necessarily maybe not running from something, but like seeking something or seeking a. And this isn't even to knock on. I'm just gonna talk as a runner. Okay, Let me just say this, okay. As someone that I ran my first marathon when I was 11 years old.

A (73:40)

Oh, my God.

B (73:41)

Okay. And I'm not gonna try to make this about me, but There's a story here. Okay. So I ran my first.

A (73:45)

It is about you though. You're the guest. Just like, it's okay. Just, I mean, it's okay.

B (73:52)

Ran my first marathon, was 11 years old and I did a lot of running events and I, I've, you know, I've run ultramarathons and I've done. And I've recently had to have like a little bit of a weird breakup with long distance running because I'm realizing that the long distance running is too much stress. It's. Well, yes, but it, it's a, it's a pacifier for me. It's a way that I, it's how I got, how I got validation and as a kid. And it's how I felt love from my mom. Right. Like I felt love for my mom when I would run and when I would. Because that's what she did. And then I realized that there's deep seated stuff that we cannot even begin to understand. Like we could try to logical our way through it as much as we want, but it's deep seated stuff where like when I run I feel a little bit of that. Like I am part of something. I belong. Right.

A (74:38)

Primal connection to your mom.

B (74:40)

Primal connection to my mom. And then you get to these points where you're like, I'm breaking down my body for this connection. How so? What am I looking for? So I, when I see people that are like going through these like crazy endurance events, which again I have participated in, and I'm. I would like to say in a certain degree I'm on the other side of it because I, I see this as, as something that's. I've never done 100 milers, but I mean, I've done a number of ultras over 40, 50 miles. And I just know what it brings me in terms of mental satisfaction at the time. But I also know, know like I pay a price for it. Not necessarily biomechanically I do, but I pay a price for it mentally later because then I've just reinforced this with myself. And now I have social accolades and now I have other people validating it. And it's just, it's so difficult to really get inside the head of like any athlete. But when you look at endurance athletes, there's almost always some pain there.

A (75:33)

Yeah.

B (75:34)

And like, are you running to something? Are you running from something thing for me, it was seeking behavior. Right. So I realized running was a way I would go seeking. And it's almost like beautifully, like metaphorical. I'd be Running because I'm seeking for something because I have a. You know, I'm essentially strained from my mom, so it's like I. Maybe I'm seeking that. Right. And when you start looking at how the brain works and how you cope, some people it's food. Some people it's running. The question that I have is, does it become problematic if we glorify it too much? You know, does it. Does it.

A (76:07)

When it starts to become destructive? It's the quote that that which nourishes me also destroys me. Like, the food connected me to my dad until I was, like, £175 at 12. Wasn't running, but it was food. Same game. And we're estranged.

B (76:22)

Yeah. And I. It's like, I have immense respect, you know, for Cam, and I have immense respect for David Goggins, and I just. But I would love to have the conversation and being like, what do you feel? Like, what do you really feel when you're going for this run? Like, what do you. But more importantly, like, what do you feel when you come back? Because when I come back from a run, no doubt I'm high. Like, I feel high.

A (76:47)

Yeah.

B (76:47)

You know, you feel. But I used to think it was endorphins. I used to think it was all these things. I'm like, no, I felt, like, a primal connection at a certain level to, like, what I felt as a kid. And all these moments of, like, gratitude and fulfillment that I would have as a kid, like, achievements with running. I would relive those, and it was happening, like, at a systemic level that I wasn't even aware of. So when I became, like, really in tune with that, it became so glaringly obvious. Like, okay, I can wake up in a given morning and be like, feel my body and be like, should I run today? Yeah, my body feels good. It's a good day to run, you know, rather than letting my mind drive this and override a body that shouldn't be running that day.

A (77:26)

Yeah. So what do you think it is, though, that. That made you aware of that? Because a lot of times people are unconscious about it, and it's providing them with something that they don't understand. So it's like the obesity conversation again, because that's the lens I see it through. But how do you awaken someone? And this is where I. Shifting gears on you. This is where I have very high hopes for psychedelic therapy be. But that's another one. That's a frigging another one. That. It's like an FDA nightmare.

B (77:57)

No, I will Run out and say, the biggest game changer for me in my, like, emotional, spiritual, and metabolic health was investing in that and doing, I can at least safely say here, like, ketamine, assisted therapy, and going that route. And it was a game changer for me to have a certain level of ego dissolvement that allowed me to truly see what, like, what is this avatar that's like, trying to be 5% body fat all the time and trying to. And then what is actually my true dying pole, like, what. What's pulling me in this, you know, life, right, to help people and to, you know, connect. And I think the important thing that. That made me realize and what I realized that I was seeking with running so much was connection. So if to come back to mom, it was connection, of course, because when running stopped, then I would say, say, I need to travel. I always need to travel. I need to move my feet. I need to move my feet. Driving my family insane because I couldn't sit still in one place. The point where I had a really, you know, very, very close friend that was just like, what are you seeking? Like, you stopped running, and now you just feel like you. You can't have your feet in one place. You get itchy feet. And that is a trait, like, sure, you like to explore. You'd like to adventure. But what I realized, and I still love to adventure, but. And I definitely travel a lot, but what it really was was, it was connection. Like, I'm seeking connection. And when I actually just. Just, like, rooted in and, like, focused on my friends and connection and all that, a lot of that improved. And I wouldn't have seen that if it wasn't for having some level of, like, you know, assisted therapy in that, because it was like, was it curiosity.

A (79:29)

That made you do it, or was it, like, everyone's talking about it, oh, ketamine, I will gain now. Or was it like, I'm in pain?

B (79:37)

Like, and I've never said this publicly on a podcast, is that, like, you know, there was a sexual trauma that happened to me when I was younger. Like, there was. And it was coming to grips with that and realizing that if I didn't face this, then I would never be able to truly help people. And it really was that. It was from, like, a focus, and it can get emotional talking about this, but, like, it was really being able to see that for what it is. And that was the catalyst for me to actually go and say, okay, like, I'm gonna advance this therapy beyond 15 years of talk therapy that was getting me this far.

A (80:11)

I know, right?

B (80:13)

And being able to take that step and say, you know what something that's like, in this case, like, ketamine, you can go to a. You know, it's legal. Like, you can go and have someone.

A (80:20)

Do ketamine is the one that's legal.

B (80:22)

And having that level of, like, ego dissolvement to see, like, this is not actually my true nature and not who I am. This is just a bunch of different, like, shells that I've put on to try to protect from traumas and things that I've done. But it made me better at what I've done. And what's crazy, Jillian, what's crazy is, like, this was back in. In, like, August of last year. There are so many people in the comment section of my YouTube channel that have said, something's different about you.

A (80:50)

Wow.

B (80:51)

Like, good, positive thing. Like, something is different about you. And how you explain things seems to come from the heart more. And when I realized, like, so much of my entire career was built upon, like, this same thing that we talk about, the Goggins, the, like, the, like, how do we push through it, how we push. And imagine taking that entire idea, but putting it into diet. And I, like, had this realization that, like, I'm like, that's constricting for people. Like, people can't, like, and that's forcing them to feel a certain way about diet. So when I actually, truly, for the lack of a better term, like, came from my heart with it. With the ego removed, my business improved month over month. I mean, revenue's been better. It's like, everything has been better because I'm leading with my heart and not with this, like, ego shell. So when I look at some of this, you know, like, how much it could help people, and, like, it really is a powerful thing. And we live in a world where we just put, I don't know, layer after layer after layer on.

A (81:43)

I think this gets back to what you said initially, though, about calories. It's like, okay, we could. We could talk about energy expenditure and what have you, but it's so much more complex than that. What drives behavior as well. Because I can even tell you, hey, don't have two cheeseburgers. Maybe, like a cheeseburger. But what is driving you to the two cheeseburgers? And I can then say, oh, you know, they manipulate the cheeseburger. And this is why you're driven to have to. It's like, with your appetites and. But it. It's so much more than that.

B (82:21)

We're trying so Hard to like, to rationalize something that cannot be rationalized with a logical brain. And it is the very core and the essence of everything that you and I talk about. Like, okay, we talk about whole food, we talk about eating real food, dude. What about like these other elements of life that we like throw to the wayside because like, it's not tangible. Like we can't measure this with a mechanism and we can't look at it with this study, so it must not exist.

A (82:47)

Yeah.

B (82:47)

What about like the simple things that like, hey, like how you were raised and like the environment you grew up in and the traumas and micro traumas you've dealt, those are like during your formative years forming these patterns and these habits that are such a wide, diverse amount of input that we could never triangulate to say it's one thing because your experiences, even if you and I were raised in the exact same household with the exact same parents, your perspective and what happened to you is going to be different than what happened to me. And it's going to send us on a completely different path of how we view food, how we view exercise. So yes, there's ways to gamify it, but I think even calories in, calories out is just a gamification. It's just a broad scale gamification. And then you could get down into these subcategories of gamification where you're okay, keto, more gamification, vegan, more gamification doesn't mean it's right or wrong, it's just.

A (83:38)

Supplements, more gamification, peptides, more gamification.

B (83:40)

Exactly. Until we distill it down to like. But we're actually going the opposite direction.

A (83:45)

Yeah.

B (83:45)

And I had better results with my body composition, I had better results with my performance. Literally my lifts increased. Literally my performance improved when I was running because I wasn't running from something or to something anymore. Heaven forbid. You know what I saw when I was, one of the things that was, was like really impactful for me when I was actually in a actually assisted ketamine therapy at that point is I saw myself almost like a drone footage of myself going into the gym and beating myself up with dumbbells. How freaking crazy is that? So I was banging myself with and I saw this and it became so clear, like, I'm not lifting myself up, I'm destroying myself. And then after that it was like my workouts became more about, I want to feel good, I want to empower myself, I want to lift, to get stronger, I want to Run to, to.

A (84:30)

Get faster because you love your body, not because you hate it. But it's one thing to, like, know it, and it's another thing to know it.

B (84:39)

And I think, like, we're just so blind to that because really, to no fault of our own, it's just like we're forced to adapt in a, you know, in a culture that's requires you to force to adapt. But then we get down to this. Like, I don't even know how to describe it. The world that we're in today where it's like you, you feel like you need to micromanage every single teeny aspect of your life down to the second. Like, how can you ever listen to that internal voice that's already hard to listen to?

A (85:07)

Oh, my God, it's so hard to get quiet enough to listen to it, let alone with all of the conflicting voices that come into your head all the time. And I think that people are just feeling so off center. So you're right. We end up looking for a tribe. We end up looking for a guru to tell us what to do.

B (85:27)

I love that we're going this direction because this is the stuff that I, I.

A (85:30)

Well, I have a question for you about the current tribe.

B (85:33)

Sure. Sugar diet.

A (85:35)

I'm starting to. No, not the sugar diet. I'm starting to. Like, I had really high hopes for Maha, and it's not that I don't still, but there are things and dogmas and infighting and politic politicization that are starting to make me wonder if anything good's gonna get done there or if.

B (86:02)

Just if, if anything at all is gonna get done, good, bad, or ugly. Like, I think, I don't know, are we just gonna end up in a deadlock situation regardless? I would be lying if I didn't say that, like, or I would be lying by omission if I didn't say that. I have some concerns. Like, I have some concerns.

A (86:14)

Tell me what those are.

B (86:15)

You know, I have some concerns that, like, I want to hear them. Maybe it's. Well, I think a lot of it is just like, are we missing the forest for the trees? Like, and I feel like, like, you know, a lot of it, it's like we satisfy a certain, you know, a loud minority of people that, like, have a big reach. We satisfy certain things by talking about these individual things, but we're still not actually getting to the core of educating. Like, we're still not actually, like, moving. Like, okay, why do these things need to be changed? Like, let's actually Teach people so you don't need a PhD to go to the grocery store and eat health healthy like. And, you know, it's so.

A (86:53)

Well, here's my answer. Here's where they need to be changed. And then correct me if I'm wrong. So let me do my best. Casey means infertility is on the rise 1% every single year. Early onset cancer diagnosis are up 79% in people 18 to 49 over the past two decades. There's an autism epidemic, and it was like, 1 in thousands 20 years ago, and now it's 1 in 31 kids. And two years ago, it was 1 in 36 kids. I. You know that you've seen the. The cacophony, this echo chamber of statistics, and they're real. And we are in the middle of this extinction level event. Is it an. And that's where I'm like, we need Thomas DeLauer to tell us how to take agency personally, but we also should try to remove the poison from the water. When you order fish and you're trying to be good, and it's got 50 chemicals in it, it's like, how do people function that way? Like, you want them to have the. The. The ketamine therapy and the ibogaine and the friggin. You want insurance to cover these things, let alone have them be legal. And if it isn't Maha, what is it? What is it going for the.

B (87:59)

For the first time, like, there's some eye, at least eyeballs on this stuff. That's the thing that. So it's. And that's where, again, like, I don't even want to make it political. For me, it's just like, okay, it's exciting that now there's eyeballs on it, but I also feel like now, okay, it's go time to, like, handle this with the right kind of gloves, right?

A (88:17)

Yes.

B (88:18)

And that's where it's just like, because could also just drop it where the American people would just be like, we gave this an opportunity, and it didn't work. So I just encourage my words to the Maha community within that is to just handle this with, like, delicate gloves. Like, you're dealing with, like, people that, like, you have the ability to construct something that's going to actually truly help people, right? Like, teach them to eat right, get the transparency that we want. And I feel like if I could, like, really focus on things, I would just say, like, transparency, transparency, transparency. People just need to know where their food comes from. And if they start learning that these things matter, they will educate themselves on it. If they care about their health. We can't force people to care about their health. And that's just the thing. And you know this from fitness, right?

A (89:06)

Yep.

B (89:06)

You can't force someone to change if they're ready to change and they're ready to get in shape. That's a mindset that you maybe had some input in. But they made that decision. So we're certainly not gonna force people that have no desire to be healthy.

A (89:21)

No, you're right. And then it backfires. Just like you said. You're trying to force them to do something, and they're like, oh, yeah, I'll have 10 Big Macs, so screw you. You know, you make such a good point there. I. This is something that I want to ask you about also. It's, like, last on my list, but arguably the most important. Is this the most ridiculous. Like, look at all. These are all the freaking things I. You're leaving California? Why? Well, I mean, we're. It's like the state's just losing everybody. Good.

B (89:55)

I mean, it's. It's. It's not like I'm leaving tomorrow. It's like we've had our place in. In Nevada, in Tahoe. Right.

A (90:00)

Right.

B (90:01)

And we. As we've spent more time there, we've just realized that it just feels more free. Like, it's just like, it more aligns with us. Right. Like, there's a lot of little reasons, but I think at the end of the day, like, I would rather be in the mountains, and I'd rather be in a state where I don't feel like all I want is, like, some freedom. When people leave California, sometimes they have such a immense. Like, they're so. So fed up that they just. They leave, and it's nothing but anger. And I encourage people, like, California was once a beautiful place, and California forever will hold, like, a special place in my heart for the beaches, the mountains. Like, I. And I can truthfully say this, like, have they irritated me and really pissed me off? Yes. I still. There's a party that just loves California so much, which is like, I. And I just wish that it could go back to the way that it used to be. Right. I just. And. And it's why I still find myself here, even though, like, everyone, like, logical explanation would be like, Thomas, like, why are you here? From a tax perspective, from this, like, why are you here? And I'm just like, well, the best way I can put it, Jillian, is like, my work's not done here.

A (91:13)

Like, that's the way that I put.

B (91:14)

It, you know, it's like my work.

A (91:15)

I actually love that, though.

B (91:16)

I feel like my work's not done here. And I feel like there's. There might be a time when it comes for me to leave, and there definitely will be, but it's just. My work's not entirely done here. And maybe there's. There's, you know, who knows? But it's just. There's a. There's a pole there that I can't say.

A (91:30)

I love that because you're the only one that isn't running from it.

B (91:33)

And I don't want to run. That's the thing. I think that's. You nailed it right there.

A (91:35)

I've run from it.

B (91:36)

I don't want everyone's running from it, I feel. But I also. I know that. And I was talking with my good friend about this. We feel similar ways. It's like, we know that this isn't where we're going to be. Yep, this isn't where we're going to be.

A (91:48)

I get it.

B (91:49)

But there's too many things that are just not going the way that we would want it to go. But I don't feel like my work's entirely done here, and I don't want to be the person that is forced out. I will leave when it's my time to leave, and that means for a little while, yeah, I pay more taxes and I deal with some crap, but I know that I'm strong and can kind of push through this and move when it's time to move. It just. There's just something that I can't really describe as saying. It's like, don't leave just yet. Right.

A (92:18)

I love that. I hope.

B (92:19)

But I mean, quite frankly, frankly, I don't know if I even want to.

A (92:23)

Stay in the U.S. yeah, okay, I see what you're saying.

B (92:26)

Like, I mean, so it's just like. I just don't know anymore. Like, it's just. But then if it wasn't the U.S.

A (92:32)

Where would you go?

B (92:33)

Exactly. That's the thing. It's like, you start looking at these things.

A (92:34)

It's like, I'm like, I don't know.

B (92:35)

You're freaking all kinds of crazy running from something.

A (92:38)

So it's just all the Europeans I speak to are like, oh, please, you don't know pain.

B (92:42)

And that's. That's the thing is. Okay, so that's a great thing there, right? Because then you say, like, I don't want to leave California because I don't want to run through Something, but it's like, because you're jumping out of the pot and into the kettle. Really. But at the end of the day, if you. Like, like, then if you leave the United States, then you're really running from something because then you're, like, willing to, like, abandon your citizenship. Now, that's a whole different discussion. So then, like, so, okay, well, it must be something that's potently driving that. But then it's also this shiny object syndrome that I think is a big problem. Right? So whether it's leaving California, whether it's leaving the US Whether it's any other thing, like, we have shiny object syndrome, too. Like, so, like, we look at how the EU does things with food, and. And we can romanticize that, but politically.

A (93:23)

You can't freaking say something on Facebook with having the cops show up at your door.

B (93:27)

Yeah. And, like, we'll have.

A (93:28)

It's like, okay, I'm scary as hell.

B (93:30)

I love, like, Switzerland, for example. Switzerland's amazing. The food is so good. And I love, like. And, like, Switzerland's a little bit of a different story because they're, like, kind of operate a little bit autonomously. But, like, if you look even like France, whatever, the food's amazing. Like, good quality of food. It's easy to romanticize a relationship with these things and fixate on mechanisms and ingredients. And then when you actually think about, like, well, what would it actually be? Like, there's great things about being an American, and I feel like I just. At the end of the day, it's so hard to put into words, but, like, there's an Amer. Like, the American spirit is. Is freedom and transparency and the Amer. You know what I mean? It's like, so I don't want to, and I'm not ready to give up on that. Like, I could leave and I could abandon it for something that seems better on the surface by romanticizing ingredients, you know, and things like that. But the reality is, like, I think that, like, my work's not done here. This is the best way to put it.

A (94:22)

I love that. And you know what else? It sounds to me, it. As I. As you talk about going elsewhere, maybe you're chasing shiny objects. You know, the whole world is kind of now that. Let's just say globalists are in charge of everything. This, whatever this is, is everywhere. It really is everywhere. And certain places are less impacted than others. But at some point, the question does become, where do you take a stand?

B (94:45)

Yeah.

A (94:45)

Where do you stop and plant your feet and say, I'm going to fight this one into the ground, but you got to be ready to pay the price for it, and it's a big freaking price. We've seen it. And, you know, I just.

B (94:58)

No, you're so right.

A (94:59)

Politics, in particular, is a perfect example. Just the best people that you wish would go into politics are like, oh, hell no. Yeah, it's a filthy name. Of course there'll be some deep fake of me having sex with a lobster, you know, just, like. You know, that they'll send to my children, and, you know, just like, okay, I get it. You know, who. Who wants to fall in that sword? But at some point, you do have to fight for what you believe in and what you love. Otherwise, what else?

B (95:25)

But if this was. If this was like a. Like, a true, like, raw battlefield where you could stand on a hill and say, I'm willing to die for this, you know, like, the brave men and women of this country actually have had to physically do before social media, before the game was so weird, like, when you actually died for a cause. And, like, can you. You know, like. Like, I think we forget that.

A (95:47)

Like, I mean, why do we forget.

B (95:48)

Why do we forget this? Because we're so removed from it. We're just so, like. You're so removed from, like, my grandpa, you know, it's like, you think about these things. Like. Like, I was in. When I went to France last year, I went to Normandy and, you know, for. And it's like. And that was, like, the most patriotic spot I've ever been to in the world was Normandy for D Day last year. Most patriotic spot I've ever been to.

A (96:08)

Like, weird. You're saying this. I just listened to a freaking podcast about this.

B (96:11)

Just.

A (96:12)

Well, I mean, about Normandy, obviously.

B (96:13)

I mean, D Day's coming up, right? We got.

A (96:14)

Okay, that must be.

B (96:16)

And it's just like, I get chills talking about it, because it's just like, that's what patriotism feels like. And, like, man, I could cry about that, because that's, like, the thing that. Where. The feeling there, like, where men and women, like, died for true freedom, the. That we take granted now, what the hell? You know? And that's just, like, where I think.

A (96:41)

About all over each other to America.

B (96:45)

We all on each other. On each other, and we.

A (96:48)

Infighting.

B (96:49)

So when people ask me, like, like, that's the American spirit. Like, that's where it's like, I'm actually willing to die for freedom and what I feel. But, like, we don't live in, like, it's a. It's a phony world we live in because, like, you can die for something, you know what I mean? On social media, but you're not actually. That sounds bad to even. And I'm not saying you're not willing to actually give up your life like our ancestors were. They would give up their life to make sure that their family could maintain their freedom. They would give up their life. Right. I don't. And I only know a small handful of people now that like, you know, in working within the military, of course, like, those kinds of people that would, like, have that mindset and we don't.

A (97:30)

Take care of them, which is.

B (97:32)

That's the thing. It's like I. That's them.

A (97:33)

That's.

B (97:34)

That's the thing. That's the sword that I prioritize.

A (97:36)

Everything else but them now, now they're. They're. I don't think they've been treated properly since World War II.

B (97:42)

Hell, no.

A (97:42)

I saw a whole thing about that. How Korea and Vietnam completely disenfranchised people. There were such different conflicts and we started to see through the military industrial complex with those wars and nobody was fighting for a cause. And we all over the veterans and we stopped taking care of them. And it's just like.

B (98:00)

I'm so. I'm. I'm definitely with you.

A (98:02)

If you had to give people advice on what to fight for and how to begin fighting for it. I know. I got it. I know. I got it. I know. Sorry.

B (98:12)

No, you're good. Are we okay?

A (98:14)

If I had. If you had to give people advice on what to fight for and how to begin fighting for it. Because really, I think that's the biggest part of our conversation.

B (98:23)

Okay. I feel like you need to really reach deep inside and feel what you are truly passionate about, not what's going to get you clicks and likes and views. Right. What are you truly passionate about? And speak from the heart on that, because people will pick up on that. And that is how you lead a charge and lead a change. And somewhere along the lines that's just gotten disrupted where. It's just. It's all for optics. Everything is for optics. So if you want to, like, lead a charge and make a change. I'm not saying that I've done an amazing job at doing this, but I can use myself as an example for at least building a platform that is.

A (98:59)

I think you have. Yeah.

B (99:00)

You know, because.

A (99:01)

Great job.

B (99:02)

I feel like that's not. I. I don't want to humble, brag. I'm like, careful not to do that. But the point is, I'll do it for you.

A (99:08)

You've done a great job of doing.

B (99:09)

Continue to talk about what I'm passionate about and that's the best way that I. And I. Am I going to change the mind of everybody in the world? No.

A (99:16)

No.

B (99:17)

But I am at least living my truth. So it's so woo woo to say because like, how do, like people that are removed from it. You have to speak your truth. You have to speak from passion. You have to be. Be real. It's what I have respected about you from day one. Even on the Biggest Loser. Loser stuff when you caught so much. Okay. One thing that I knew about you is like I could watch you and I'd be like, no, this is real. People may not like it, but at least she's real, right? And like she's coming from like a place of so. And I think and just like keeping it real. Right? Just like, it's just so.

A (99:52)

I don't have it.

B (99:52)

I don't have an answer. I don't have like a.

A (99:54)

That is actually a beautiful answer. It reminds me back when I would have the ability to. To work with people hands on. And it's like, don't live for the shoulds. Do the things that you want, that you care about because then you become the best version of yourself and that's what you owe the world. And that's really what you're saying.

B (100:13)

And then the Avengers will form from that, right?

A (100:15)

Yep.

B (100:15)

So it's like, because I'm not going to be the president of the universe.

A (100:18)

You know what I mean?

B (100:19)

It's not going to happen. But I will continue to lead a charge in what I feel. Feel. And by leading, by example and by always taking the high road. Always taking the high road. And the other people that always take the high road, they will converge, you know, and eventually it may not happen. Who knows, maybe it might not even happen in our lifetime. But it's just like I think the cream will always rise to the top. And I hope so.

A (100:46)

It certainly has with you. And this is such a ridiculous.

B (100:48)

Maybe I'm just overly optimistic.

A (100:51)

No, I don't think, I don't think you are. I think you're. You're living proof that it can be done.

B (100:55)

Done.

A (100:56)

And you share your personal journey of evolution with us. You know, whether you're taking oxytocin as you're doing in your nose.

B (101:06)

I don't feel so nauseous now. Much better now.

A (101:08)

This is all. See like, it's just. They just had to. You just had to talk it out and pay that.

B (101:12)

Yeah.

A (101:13)

I mean, obviously, this is such a ridiculous question, but I. I have these guests that are like, monsters. They're juggernauts with millions of followers, but you're like, where do you get more? So, for anybody, for the random person who caught this that doesn't know who you are, where do we get more from you?

B (101:30)

Just more like, where can you hide from me? Unfortunately, no, it's just Thomas DeLauer across all platforms. Pretty. Pretty straightforward, you know? And Thomas DeLauer.com for one more question.

A (101:43)

Oh, my God, I'm so sorry. I. I apologize. Where can you hide from me the AI issue? Please tell me real quick. This is crazy. This is insane. I've seen fake use all over the place, selling, like, fake crap.

B (101:56)

Yeah. Did you know? Yeah, apparently. Apparently, I am a big fan of miracle hair growth.

A (102:01)

Oh, my God. So there's a. There's deep fake use, and we can't.

B (102:06)

Do anything about it.

A (102:07)

And why can't you take it down? It's all.

B (102:09)

A lot of times what happens is, like, they're like click farms, right, that all get paid on. It's like, called a cpa. So they'll get paid on a click, Right?

A (102:18)

So, yes. Cost for.

B (102:19)

Yeah, yeah. Cost per acquisition. So, like, they just basically. Or so they basically are just getting. They're getting as through an affiliate network. They can. Any way that they can get a click, they're getting paid whether it converts to a sale for them or not. So they will do anything they can to get a click. The CPA networks are brutal. It's something like.

A (102:35)

But they're using your. They're using.

B (102:37)

They can use my name, image, likeness. They. My trademark name. They can do whatever because they won't get found.

A (102:43)

Oh, because they're in Turkey.

B (102:45)

Yeah.

A (102:45)

So they're. They're like, trust me, China somewhere. Otherwise, can you not go to Google and say, take this down. This is not me.

B (102:53)

So I don't know why it's not working, but, like, you report these things and they just get kind of overturned. Like, it's just like. So there's gotta be something happening there. Like, the only thing I can think of, and this is pure speculation, so I cannot say, take this to the bank. But I'm almost wondering if. Because it's.

A (103:08)

This is the future.

B (103:09)

If it's an AI version of me, it's not actually me. So can they actually say stop? Right? So it's like, you can't trademark the way. Like, someone's exact facial feature. I don't know, I'm just, like, thinking because, like, how is this not. How is this okay? How is it okay to use my name, image, likeness?

A (103:24)

The only one I've seen talking about this, and I sent it to my business partner, and I was like, buckle up. Yeah, this is coming.

B (103:29)

Yeah. And it's. It's. It hurts my brand in very interesting ways because, you know, then it's like, people think that I'm willing to, like, sell, like, penis enlargement pills and this and that, and it's like, they're going to do whatever, because unfortunately, and fortunately, I've built a brand based on trust. Trust. And, like, people will be like, well, I trust what Thomas says, and sometimes they don't vet it. Like, they'll just trust what I say, which is a. An amazing power to have, but also, like, it can be ripped out from underneath me very easily, too.

A (103:54)

The only thing I can hope is that the more this happens, the more it gets out there that this is happening, and then people have the ability to go to your channel and do the homework and find out, okay, that's not him.

B (104:05)

His eyes are that close together. You had to get zoom in close on that last one, right? I was like, oh, he's kind of a handsome guy. No, he looks a little odd.

A (104:16)

His pupils are touching now, and it. But it did look a lot like I was crazy. It wasn't you. And I could tell, but if I was flicking quick on a small screen and a fast scroll, I'd be like, oh, there's Tom. Yeah, crazy.

B (104:30)

It's wild.

A (104:31)

Okay, well, everyone be super sharp about your favorite health expert or your favorite expert in any category, because these deep fakes are out there, there, and there's a lot of Thomas, but you can go to Thomas DeLauer on every platform to get the truth from him at any point. Thank you. This was so special.

B (104:51)

This was awesome. Thank you.

A (104:52)

I really appreciate it. I'm so glad you feel better. Thank you so much for watching. If you enjoyed the podcast, please, like, comment, subscribe, and share, and make sure to let me know what guests you want to see on in the future.