TOMI LAHREN: MINNEAPOLIS AND DEARBORN ARE JUST THE BEGINNING

Summary

Keeping It Real: Conversations with Jillian Michaels
Episode: TOMI LAHREN: MINNEAPOLIS AND DEARBORN ARE JUST THE BEGINNING
Release Date: December 7, 2025
Guest: Tomi Lahren

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Episode Overview

In this charged and fast-paced episode, host Jillian Michaels sits down with conservative commentator Tomi Lahren for a far-reaching discussion about contemporary political flashpoints in America. The conversation covers the fallout from Minnesota’s billion-dollar fraud scandal involving Somali-run nonprofits, the complexities of mass immigration and assimilation, debates over national security and the “Death to America” chants in Dearborn, Michigan, and challenges facing the Republican Party in increasingly competitive “red” districts. Throughout, Lahren and Michaels tackle themes of crime, public safety, accusations of racism, and the need for political courage in contentious times.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Tennessee Special Election and Republican Prospects (01:46–08:14)

• Tomi reflects on the recent special election in Nashville where Republican Matt Van Epps won, but by a much slimmer margin than Trump had previously—a 9-point win vs. Trump’s 20+.
• She expresses concern about GOP complacency and lackluster ground campaigns.
• Lahren’s Warning: “Next year, if Republicans play the game that they played in Tennessee, we are going to get shellacked. It’s going to be a red wedding for the GOP.” (03:23)
• Points to grassroots apathy, “milquetoast” candidates, and misplaced faith in Trump’s coattails as critical vulnerabilities for Republicans in future elections.

2. The Minnesota Fraud Scandal & Political Hesitancy (08:14–15:20)

• Discussion pivots to the $1 billion fraud involving Somali-run nonprofits in Minnesota.
• Michaels and Lahren detail the allegations, including aid intended for children being diverted to luxury purchases and overseas real estate.
• Explores the reluctance of state officials, specifically Democrats, to robustly investigate these issues for fear of racism accusations.
• Quote: “Can you imagine all the things that we could get done to better this country…if people weren’t afraid of being called racists?” —Tomi Lahren (13:55)
• Cites New York Times reporting that officials fear backlash from a key voting bloc (the Somali community) and political peril in pursuing aggressive scrutiny.

3. Assimilation, "Imported Populations," and National Security (10:33–20:52)

• Tomi claims politicians are elected by “imported” communities:
  “I don’t think Minnesota voted for Ilhan Omar; I think Somalia did, because they imported Somalia to Minnesota.” (10:33)
• Michaels highlights connections in fraud allegations to terror groups like Al Shabaab.
• They critique “suicidal empathy,” suggesting it impedes tough but necessary decisions on border integrity and deportations.
• Policy discussion around Trump’s intent to review green cards from high-risk countries and terminate certain temporary permissions for Somali nationals.
• Lahren’s take: “Mass deportations. All the people that came here under Joe Biden, in my opinion, they need to leave.” (18:27)

4. The Dearborn Incident and Racism as a Deflection (15:48–18:08)

• Discusses footage of “Death to America” chants at a Dearborn, MI, rally and Rashida Tlaib’s refusal to answer questions—labeling press inquiries as racist.
• Quote: “Nobody can address any of this because you’re racist.” —Jillian Michaels (17:24)
• Critique of how accusations of racism or bigotry shut down dialogue on challenging topics, thereby stymying constructive debate and solutions.

5. Refugees, Assimilation Challenges, and American Identity (22:14–32:23)

• Jillian shares her experience working with the UN Refugee Agency, noting the robust vetting system for refugees—but illustrates shortcomings using the example of an Afghan national who, vetted and brought over after assisting the U.S., later shot two National Guardsmen.
• Tomi argues relocating individuals from war-torn or culturally dissimilar countries creates additional risks:
  • “If you take somebody from Afghanistan and you drop them in the Pacific Northwest, they know nothing of that culture… It’s easy to become radicalized, it’s easy to become jaded and disgruntled.” (26:41)
• Both discuss why even other Muslim-majority countries (e.g., Egypt, Jordan) are reluctant to absorb Palestinian refugees—cultural, economic, and security reasons.

6. The “Racism” Label and Its Political Effects (28:41–32:23)

• Michaels, as a gay woman with a Black child, discusses being called a racist for advocating secure borders, noting diversity within conservative circles.
• Argues conservative critique is more about shared American values than identity politics.
• Tomi draws lines between fundamentalist Islam and “incompatible” American values, expressing concern about Sharia law and social practices being imported.
• Frustration at “double standards” in global immigration policy, especially regarding Westerners’ rights abroad versus what’s tolerated in the U.S.

7. Empathy vs. National Interest: Immigrants’ Perspective (33:39–36:48)

• Plays a video of a Somali-American pre-med student speaking about feeling unfairly burdened as a scapegoat and pressured to explain her community.
• Lahren acknowledges gray areas and the need for empathy, but maintains national interest should come first:
  • “If you come into this country and you want to better it and…be an American and you love this country, then I think if you can contribute that, we welcome you here. But…why are we expected to take on that burden?” (35:03)
• Example: Challenges around language barriers in schools, resource drain, and resulting resentment, even among communities of color.

8. Crime, Recidivism, and the Effects on Women (36:48–45:50)

• Spotlight on rising crime rates and stories of repeat offenders (both immigrant and American) being released by “blue cities.”
• Personal anecdotes: Jillian’s own brother’s changing views after crime affects him directly.
• Discussion of the impact on women:
  • “When you don't have public safety, the people that are most vulnerable are women and children. But women are the ones going to bear the brunt.” —Tomi Lahren (44:19)
• Lahren laments liberal women voting for policies that, in her view, ultimately harm them.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Critique of Political Hesitancy:
  “Can you imagine all the things that we could get done to better this country…if people weren’t afraid of being called racists?”
  —Tomi Lahren (13:55)

• On GOP Complacency:
  “Next year, if Republicans play the game that they played in Tennessee, we are going to get shellacked. It’s going to be a red wedding for the GOP.”
  —Tomi Lahren (03:23)

• On Assimilation and Identity:
  “I don’t think Minnesota voted for Ilhan Omar; I think Somalia did, because they imported Somalia to Minnesota.”
  —Tomi Lahren (10:33)

• On Mass Deportations:
  “Mass deportations. All the people that came here under Joe Biden, in my opinion, they need to leave. … We’re full. We have to take care of America first. So that’s the first step, mass deportations.”
  —Tomi Lahren (18:27)

• On Progressivism and Safety:
  “Excuse me, you can’t coexist with people who hate you and want to kill you. So again, yeah, they are sacrificing women.”
  —Tomi Lahren (45:34)

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Important Timestamps

• 01:46 — Tomi Lahren joins and discusses Tennessee’s special election
• 03:23 — Lahren warns of GOP complacency
• 08:36 — Overview of Minnesota fraud allegations
• 13:55 — Lahren on the chilling effect of racism accusations in public policy
• 16:55 — Footage of "Death to America" chants in Dearborn discussed
• 18:27 — Lahren advocates mass deportations and the rationale behind it
• 26:41 — Challenges of assimilation and risks with refugees and migrants
• 33:39 — Somali-American student speaks out about being scapegoated
• 35:03 — Debate on empathy vs. national interest, Lahren’s stance
• 39:32 — Busing of migrants and the impact on liberal enclaves
• 44:19 — Effects of crime and voting patterns on women

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Tone & Style Observations

The tone is unflinchingly direct, passionate, at times exasperated, and marked by both personal anecdotes and data-driven debate. Tomi Lahren’s blunt candor is matched by Jillian Michaels’ willingness to probe, share her own experiences, and challenge both liberal and conservative talking points. The conversation moves swiftly through current events, deeper policy issues, and personal stories, ensuring a fast-paced, provocative listen for politically engaged audiences.

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Where to Find More

• Tomi Lahren: “Tomi Lahren Is Fearless” on Outkick & YouTube; Fox News’ The Big Weekend Show
• Jillian Michaels: Keeping It Real podcast and socials

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End of Summary

Transcript

[A]

Today I'm joined by Tomi Lahren, host of Tomi Lahren Is Fearless, longtime Fox News and Fox Nation commentator, and one of the most unapologetically direct voices on immigration, crime and government accountability that we have.

[B]

Can you imagine all the things that we could get done to better this country, to protect this country, the integrity of our borders, the integrity of our tax dollars, if people weren't afraid of being called racists?

[A]

And we need that voice today because we're covering a lot. The Minnesota fraud scandal, which now tops a billion dollars. The political reluctance to scrutinize Somali run nonprofits despite glaring red flags due to.

[C]

Fears of racism allegations.

[A]

The national security angle kickbacks and overseas wiring of funds allegedly touching terror groups like Al Shabaab. The clash over Trump's mass deportation strategies, as well as Death to America chants in Dearborn. All of this raising pretty serious questions about extremism, assimilation, and national cohesion.

[B]

I don't think Minnesota voted for Ilhan Omar. I think Somalia did because they imported Somalia to Minnesota.

[A]

Then we're going to touch on the breakdown in public safety from repeat offender crime, in particular in blue cities by both illegal immigrants and American repeat offenders. And of course, we're going to cover the spirit special election in Tennessee where Republican Matt Van Epps barely held a district Trump previously dominated.

[B]

Next year, if Republicans play the game that they played in Tennessee, we are going to get shellacked. It's going to be a red wedding for the gop.

[A]

What does this mean for the future of the gop? Here we go.

[C]

Keeping It Real with Jillian Michaels.

[A]

All right, Tommy, welcome to the show. How are you?

[B]

I am doing well. I'm here in Nashville, Tennessee. We just won a special election. It was too close for comfort. But listen, we love it when the Nashville area gets a little national attention and especially when it's for a good reason, like we won an important election. So I'm doing well.

[A]

You know, I saw that, and I have that on my list of things to talk to you about. But since you led with it, let's talk about it. Um, can you. Can you tell people who are not familiar with the election who won and why it's too close for comfort and what you think this means for the midterms, honestly, and the future of the Republican Party.

[B]

Right. I have to sound the alarm on this. So we do have now Congressman Matt Van Epps. He's a Republican. He won the seat. He won by about nine points. But the thing is, President Trump won by over 20 points last year. So it's a victory and we'll take a victory, right? I'm not going to be a Republican. That's like, oh, we could have done better. And I'm not going to sulk in that. We won. That's the important part. But the thing here, to me, that's a red flag. This is a ruby red district in Tennessee. It's the Nashville area. But even outside of the Nashville area, the other counties that are covered in this district are very, very red. They are very Trump. They are very mega. So the fact that the challenger, Afton Bain, who is a psycho white liberal woman, I mean, if you were to look up, like, psycho white liberal in the diction, you would see a photo of Afton Bain. We're talking somebody who's talked about at home abortions. We're talking about somebody who doesn't like Nashville and country music. We're talking about somebody who just a couple months ago was taking videos on her cell phone of her essentially stalking ICE agents here in the Nashville area. So this woman is basically someone right out of, like, the jaws of California who did decently well in District 7 of Tennessee. So to me, the left is trying to spin this like it's a referendum on Trump, that maybe ruby red districts are turning on President Trump. That's not the case at all. Here's the problem. Republicans have become complacent. There wasn't a ground game. There wasn't a grassroots effort. There wasn't really campaigning on social media to speak of up until maybe the last two weeks. That might be okay because we eked it out here in District 7 in Tennessee. Next year, if Republicans play the game that they played in Tennessee, we are going to get shellacked. It's going to be a red wedding for the gop. So I cannot caution people that are wanting Republicans to win enough that doing nothing and low energy, low effort, it is not going to cut it.

[A]

I understand that piece, and I heard a lot about that. You know, not having good candidates to run in the New York mayoral race, not getting out there enough on behalf of winsome Earl Sears, and the list goes on, including the New Jersey governorial race. But what is it, do you think, about the people in Tennessee that are leaning into this exceptionally liberal, progressive message? Is it. Do you think it's the fact that you've gotten a lot of California implants? Do you think it's a referendum on Trump? Like, what is making people who are voting for her vote for her? Yeah.

[B]

Well, again, the Nashville area is its Own beast. And that's going to be blue. We know it's going to be Blue. I think 80% of actual Nashville, Nashville voted for Afton Bain, the psycho white liberal. I'm not surprised by that. They do that. Not surprising. I really don't think it's a referendum on Trump at all. And I don't even think it's a message that somehow the Democrat Party is growing in red states. I don't think that there is some California influence. We have a lot of Californians that moved in, but I will say most of the Californians that have moved in, they vote correctly because they understand what they left. So I can't even really blame it on the Californians. I really can only blame it on the Republican Party. And maybe I hate to do it, but the rnc, like, you guys got to do something. You've got to get active. Last year in November 2024, and leading up to that election, you saw the RNC go in with a too big to rig effort, right? It was bank your vote, it was early voting. It's get out and vote. It's rallies. It's making sure that the voters are energized and they're ready to vote for President Trump. That's great, but I'm not seeing the same energy heading into what's going to be a midterm election because Trump's not on the ballot. But he can't be on the ballot anymore, guys. He's done right. He can't run for president again. So if you're just relying on the energy of President Trump and what is solid, like mega, we're going to lose elections. It has a little bit to do with the candidate maybe being a little milquetoast. Okay. Like, I like the guy, but we're going to need candidates that fight hard. And. And just because you're in a red area doesn't mean that you can be boring and ordinary. It's not going to work anymore. We're not in that landscape anymore. And the red states, you're still going to have to compete for red states because the left is energized and they are getting out there and they're running on a message. So wake up, Republican Party.

[A]

Tell me, what does it look like if candidates like Matt's challenger win in Tennessee? What happens to Tennessee in those instances?

[B]

Well, I'll tell you, you know, Afton Bain, she didn't win. She's going to challenge again. I'm sure she's going to do something. Right? And being elected in the Nashville area. If she runs for something else or she runs again, like she's going to get Nashville, because Nashville's blue. All right. A lot of country music execs and a lot of, you know, country music people who, you know, want to be in country music, they couldn't cut it in California and other genres have come here. Like, that's kind of the makeup of Nashville. Nashville. But Tennessee is very red. I'm not really worried about a republic in winning the state of Tennessee in the next presidential election. But I will say, to me, this is just an overall message, because when you look at New Jersey and you look at Virginia and you look at New York City, Republicans really weren't expected to win those. But you're expected to really perform well in red states, and you should be performing to the level or close to the level that President Trump was able to perform here. So to me, it's more of a message of the Republican Party just needing to get re energized and understand that all those things you voted for for President Trump, those things are going to be completely stonewalled. If we lose in 2026 and we lose in those midterms and we lose badly, all of the gains, all of the efforts to secure the border, the mass deportations, the money for all of those things, that's going to be completely just eradicated. If we don't vote for good, solid America First, Republicans in the midterms and doing the bare minimum on behalf of the Republican Party, it's just not going to cut it.

[A]

Well, you bring up the obvious next subject, and that's what's going on in Minneapolis. So, I mean, the scope of this is staggering. So it's coming out of these federal court filings. 59 people have been convicted so far, and the total fraud across multiple schemes could reach over a billion. So here's Carolyn Levitt talking about this. Take a look at this, about how.

[B]

Somali immigrants in Minnesota have been ripping off American taxpayers. In fact, in 86 people have been charged in a rampant and widespread fraud scheme spanning multiple programs in Minnesota. Of those 86, 78 of those people are Somali, 91% of them charged. So far, 59 of those people have been convicted for their roles in fraud plots that have stolen $1 billion from taxpayers in one scheme. And this is Egregious, a nonprofit and its affiliates will with these Somali migrants claimed to have fed tens of thousands of American children during the pandemic. They were reimbursed for those meals during the by taxpayers. However, federal Prosecutors found that almost all of those meals were never even delivered to hungry children. In fact, those organizations leaders spent the money on houses, luxury cars and real estate in Turkey and Kenya.

[A]

What's your initial reaction to the scale of this, Gillian?

[B]

I'm not surprised. I mean, are you. Are you really surprised? Like the fact that you've got during COVID Yeah. Well, the thing about it is it's a billion dollars. I think it's 2,250 million from this one feeding our future scheme during COVID The level of COVID scam, by the way, it's not just in Minnesota. I think we should audit every single state because there was money coming out of the coffers and it was going willy nilly, God knows where, God knows what country. I'm not shocked and at all. But here's the thing about Minnesota. In the 90s, they had this refugee program. They're like, bring Somalia to Minnesota. And now they're seeing the ramifications of that. Now, I'm not saying that everybody from Somalia is a fraudster or a schemer or wants to fund terrorists. I'm not gonna paint with that broad of a brush. Right. But when you look at the people that are representing Minnesota and you look at people like Ilhan Omar, just having this conversation with John Rich, I don't think Minnesota voted for Ilhan Omar. I think Somalia did because they imported Somalia to Minnesota. So when you import that magnitude of people from other countries, they are voting for representatives who represent them, not all of Minnesota, not Americans. They're voting to represent Somalia, and that's exactly what they got. And that's the same thing in places like Dearborn and elsewhere. You look at these outliers, they're getting elected to Congress, and you're thinking, how could a person like that, with those views and those radical takes, how could they get elected in the United States of America? Well, they didn't. They got elected by the countries that were imported here that voted for those people. And that should really piss Americans off.

[A]

You know, when you, when you mention the fact that they were voted essentially by the people of Somalia, look where the money went. It went to buy land in Turkey, it went to buy land in Kenya. Luxury goods. Arguably a terrible terror group called Al Shabaab that's aligned with Al Qaeda, an extremist, violent Islamist terror group. Like, it is kind of mind blowing. And the writing was on the wall. And Tim Walls is just sitting there saying, well, you know, like, we can't be responsible for this. We have a clip of him essentially saying, I'm going to put people in jail. But basically, you know, you can't paint ev's brush. And it's like, Tim, no one's trying to paint all Somalians with this brush or all Somali Americans with this brush. We're trying to understand why you allowed this to happen.

[B]

Dozens of people of East African descent.

[A]

Have been charged, convicted and sentenced for stealing more than $1 billion in taxpayer money from government programs during COVID As you know, Governor, that is more than Minnesota spends each year to run its Department of Corrections. So I want to give you a chance to respond to this. Do you take responsibility for failing to stop this fraud in your state? Well, certainly I take responsibility for putting people in jail. Governors don't get to just talk. Theoretically, we have to solve problems. And I will note, it's not just Somalis. Minnesota is a generous state. Minnesota is a prosperous state, a well run state where AAA bond rated, but that attracts criminals. Those people are going to jail. We're doing everything we can. But to demonize an entire community on the actions of a few, it's lazy. And I want to read you something from the New York Times because I feel like we're pretty safe quoting them. It doesn't get more liberal leaning, right? So when you go to wonder, why did this happen there? Why did people like Tim Walls allow this to go on for so long with so many red flags? Quoting directly from the New York Times, Kai say Magon, a Somali American who formerly worked as a fraud investigator for the Minnesota Attorney General's office, said elected officials in the state, and particularly those who are part of the state's Democratic led administration, were reluctant to take a more assertive action in response to the allegations in the Somali community. Goes on to say there is a perception that forcefully tackling this issue might cause political backlash among the Somali community, which is a core voting block for Democrats. And then they go on to talk about how there was also concern that if you pointed this out, you would be called racist. What, what do we do with that?

[B]

Can you imagine all the things that we could get done to better this country, to protect this country, the integrity of our borders, the integrity of our tax dollars, if people weren't afraid of being called racists. Just imagine that if you take that argument out and people actually were able to prosecute, deport everything that needs to happen, that needs to be done in accordance with the law. If all that could actually happen without the term racist, racist, if people just were unaffected by that, we could get a lot done. Unfortunately, there are Democrats, mostly white liberals, right? White liberals are so afraid of being called racist and they're so afraid of, you know, offending somebody or they're so afraid that their white guilt will, you know, will pour out of them that they just sit back and they're like, well, we kind of know this is going on, but we kind of have to let it go on because otherwise they're going to come call us racist. We're going to offend somebody. We're not going to be able to put up our diversity is strength bumper sticker so they stay quiet and they allow it to happen. But it's not just Minnesota. It's everywhere. I mean, look what's going on in Dearborn. I know we're going to talk about that, but look at deeper, look at the mayor. The mayor tells an American citizen, essentially, sit down and shut up. You're a bigot. I want you out of my town. Excuse me, you're telling an American that they can't offend the imported population from a Muslim majority country in America. That's where we are.

[C]

Last year, Instagram launched teen accounts, which.

[B]

Default all teens into automatic protections for who can contact them and the content they can see. And we'll continue adding new safeguards for.

[C]

Teens to help give parents peace of.

[B]

Mind, explore teen accounts, automatic protections, and all of our ongoing [e-mail] teenaccounts.

[A]

Did you see him speaking in Somali to the constituents? Daman Shabka, Somalia, Kunul, Minnesota, Garahan, Minneapolis.

[B]

Juan Kuji, Danila High, Juan.

[A]

And of course, it's like bumbled and botched. And it reminds me of when Nancy Pelosi took a knee in her rafiki. But I, I just, I, I'm thinking to myself, does this guy realize how absurd he looks? I would imagine not just to people like you and I, but also to the Somali people who he's pandering to. It's crazy. And then there's a clip, as you mentioned, of Dearborn where they're chanting death to America. And when FOX News coroners Rashida Tlaib to ask her about this, she goes, I'm not talking to you because you're racist. Not a great look.

[B]

The mayor condemned it.

[A]

The White House condemned it. But what about Congresswoman Rashida Tlaib?

[B]

She repped Stearborn.

[A]

Is she okay with her constituents chanting Death to America?

[B]

Fox Business correspondent Hilary Vaughn asked her watch CONGRESSWOMAN tlaib, FOX NEWS I don't.

[A]

Talk to FOX News.

[B]

At a rally in your district People were chanting, death to America. Do you condemn to Fox News? But do you condemn chance of death to America?

[A]

I don't talk to people that use racist tropes. And it's like the number one scapegoat. Nobody can address any of this because you're racist. And so my question becomes, how do we solve these problems if guys like Matt, Matt Van Epps, I think is his name in Tennessee. Am I getting that right? If guys like that are barely winning over there, okay. And you saw Winsome Earl Sears lose. You saw, you know, all the liberals take the race. Mamdani is winning. Like, what do we do to fix this problem? Is it really more about mobilizing the right? Because the left is just. They're refusing to address it and just saying it's racist for you to even point this out.

[B]

Yeah, it's racist to examine the voter rolls. It's racist to examine snap, it's racist to examine fraud, all of those things. We have to stop being afraid of being called racist or being called any other name. Throw it out the window. You and I get called a lot of names. It doesn't affect us anymore because we know what we are and we know what we're not. So enough with this. You're this, you're that. No, I just don't want my country to be taken advantage of by the rest of the world. I'm sorry. But also, back to the original point, what we need to do to fix this. Well, President Trump has already secured the border, so. So that's a win. It can easily be opened back up by another Democrat. That's, of course a concern. But the other thing is just mass deportations. Mass deportations. All the people that came here under Joe Biden, in my opinion, they need to leave. I don't care if you came here illegally and you did nothing else. I don't care if you're just sucking tax dollars or your kids are just going to school. You need to go. I'm sorry? You need to go. We're full. We have to take care of America first. So that's the first step, mass deportations. And the reason Democrats are fighting the mass deportations to such an extent is not because they care about their neighbors, the newcomers. It's because they know if they want to have long lasting power and not have to worry about American voters, they need to import their own. Get them having children, get them voting. That's their key to lasting power and success. So we can't be playing the game anymore. Mass deportation should have happened yesterday. Now is the time, though. We got to get to work. President Trump is already doing it, I think 2 million already, but there's probably upwards of 30 million. So it's going to be a big haul.

[A]

I, I pulled a couple of statistics here, or things he's going to do, claims he's going to do, reviewing green cards from 19 countries of concern from Afghanistan to Yemen. And so here are the criteria for these. These 19 countries, they have active terrorist groups, failed or failing state conditions, inadequate identity verification systems, high levels of document fraud, prior cases of extremist infiltration into migration flows. He wants to move to terminate temporary permission to stay for Somalis. And apparently when I looked into the legality of this, there are two things that would be reviewed. One are or would be the country conditions have improved enough in the Somali's home country, so in Somalia that people can safely return. Obviously we don't have that one, but the continuation of temporary permission to stay is inconsistent with US national interests. And this includes security, public safety and foreign policy concerns. Do you think Trump is going to be able to repeal this?

[B]

Well, we know the activist judges are going to stop him, you know, at every step of the way. Everything they can do to impede this process, they're going to do. But what this really is, is it needs to be a campaign to win the hearts and the minds of the American people and get them to understand that suicidal empathy is exactly that. So, again, you can't vet people from third world countries, for the most part, especially terrorist third world countries. How are you going to vet them? A lot of these people don't know they're on birthdays they don't need. You can't go to the DMV and say, give me the records on this guy. You can't. They don't keep them, they don't have them. And, you know, we need to stop and think, too. If these other countries are willingly sending all of their people over here, I'm guessing it's because they're not the best and the brightest. I'm guessing it's because maybe they're not a net positive for their home country. They would rather saddle us with the burden because why else would they say, yeah, Venezuela, all these people go to the United States of America. When President Trump says they're emptying their prisons and they're emptying their insane asylums, I know that that sounds like such an exaggeration. It's not. They're sending people that are either going to be the foot soldiers for whatever they want to do to this country or people that they quite frankly don't want. And I'm sure that there is a small segment of people that are just legitimately refugees who are seeking safety. But at what point though, do we have to worry about our safety more than the rest of the world? I'd say probably the time is now.

[A]

You know, it's interesting, having worked for the United Nations Refugee agency previously, I worked for them in 2019, 2020, and it all got shut down during COVID And then I guess arguably because I leaned to the right, they never asked me to come back and work with them again. But I learned that we actually had a pretty substantial system in place for vetting refugees, not economic migrants, but refugees. And what's interesting is that the individual who, who killed the female National Guard and shot the other National Guard in D.C. was brought over from Afghanistan and he was Tommy. He was fully vetted.

[C]

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[A]

Turns out he was helping us fight the Taliban. They don't. To this moment, I've yet to find a motive understanding why he took these actions. But the question now becomes, did we do the right thing for bringing him over? Because if we hadn't brought him over and essentially we abandoned these people that helped our country and his entire family would have been slaughtered viciously by the Taliban. But yet you do bring him over and there's still an anti Western mentality. So in an attempt to not be racist or lack empathy and do the right thing, do you think we there is no gray area here and we have to pick a side, or do you think there is a way forward down the road? I feel bad because there are good people that can contribute a ton, but at the same time, everything was actually done right here and this guy still shot two National Guardsmen in D.C. yeah.

[B]

Here's my question though. And this is just looking at it completely, just trying to look at it logically. If you take somebody from a place like Afghanistan and you drop them in the Pacific Northwest, they know nothing of that culture. Why should they? They don't know how to live, to work, to raise a family, to go to school. They don't understand our culture and a lot of them don't want to understand our culture. Because they liked theirs to an extent. So my question, and this was, when we brought in the Syrians and everybody else, when we bring in these refugees, is there not perhaps a country that's maybe more similar to their home country where they could seek refuge that perhaps was a little bit more aligned with their values and their background and their culture? I think so. I think so. Because what they're saying about this guy that murdered the National Guardsman is that he came here, he couldn't find a job that he felt was at his level, he didn't feel he could support his family at the level that he wanted to. He couldn't find a kid community, he couldn't assimilate. This is a country that is completely foreign to him, with ideals and values and traditions that are completely foreign to him. So then it's easy to become radicalized, it's easy to become jaded and disgruntled. It's easy to reconnect with people from your home country that hate America. And it's easy to think, well, you know, this country, it doesn't fit me, so I'm going to destroy it. So my thing is, yeah, there are people that need to seek refuge because they're in a war torn nation and we feel for those people. But is there not somewhere else that perhaps they could call home that would be safer for them rather than the Pacific Northwest of the United States of America where they know and understand nothing of that culture? So I think that there's a gray area, but I just don't think that again, the suicidal empathy of just bring everyone in and hope that they love this country, that's a big gamble.

[A]

Yeah, you're absolutely right. And it's, it's proven to be true. The part you bring up about going to a more like minded country.

[C]

We've all seen what's happened in Palestine though.

[A]

And you don't see Egypt jumping in to take Palestinians, you don't see Jordan jumping in to take Palestinians. And when I speak to experts in the region, the kind of hush, hush down low quiet part no one wants to say out loud is that they're worried about assimilation, they're worried about their economy, they're worried about importing extremists. And it created it creating problems for their culture. And they are more like minded culturally from a religious perspective ideologically. And it's like if they think it could be risky, imagine how dramatic of a shock it would be, as you just mentioned, for somebody who's from Afghanistan to go to the Pacific Northwest. You make an incredible point. I want to bring this up, though. The, the racism piece is so exhausting on the right. It's absolutely exhausting, and it's constant. They hate gays, they hate Jews, they hate blacks, they hate immigrants. You're a white nationalist if you want to close the border. But I would like to point out that as a gay woman with a black kid, in large part having had the pleasure of engaging with conservatives like yourself and other conservatives across the board that happen to be black or gay or Jewish. Brandon Tatum, Ben Shapiro, Dave Rubin. So it seems to me that the issue here on the right is not whether you're brown, black, Jewish, or gay. In large part, there's, of course, the alt right, you know, element of this, but that's not the vast majority of conservatives. I would argue it's not conservative at all, but I'll let you speak to that. I would argue it's about being an American. And that's the bigger issue, that the right is taking umbrage with that. When you're chanting death to America and you're speaking in a different language to your constituents in Minneapolis and you're sending money that's stolen not even to the American economy, but into Muslim countries in the hands of terror groups, that. That would be kind of the big issue for people on the right.

[B]

Yeah, you'd think. I'd also say that there, there are parts of. Of fundamentalist Islam. They're just incompatible with American values, traditions, and culture. I would say Sharia law kind of fits that bill. So, you know, again, when you have entire swaths of this country being taken over by Muslim populations from other countries, the logical next step, they've. They don't want to assimilate at all. Right. They don't want to eat what we eat. They don't want to do what we do. They don't want to wear what we wear. They don't want to have the values of the United States whatsoever. It's not that they can't. It's that they don't. They don't want to. They don't want that. So then the logical next step, too, is that, well, they had Sharia in their country, and they think that's acceptable. They think that child brides are acceptable. They think stoning women, women to death is acceptable. So that's going to be the logical next step here. Is it going to be, well, this is our culture and we're the majority here, so you don't really need to have a crystal ball. You just look at Europe you look at Europe, and they've decided that suicidal empathy is going to be their, you know, their continental model. And so they've decided, yeah, you want to have Sharia here, you want to have honor killings, you want to have child brides, you want to have your women and children being kidnapped and raped. Yeah, but that's their culture.

[A]

And.

[B]

And that's what they say, too. Well, the cultural differences, it's okay in their country, so we have to give them just a slap on the wrist. It's already happening in certain places in this country.

[A]

By the way, there are Sharia courts in Texas. I didn't even realize that. Carl Higby told me that. I was completely flabbergasted. And the other great irony of this, that nobody is wanting to say out loud is that we can't go buy land in these other countries, Dubai. But pretty much outside of that, you can't go buy land in Saudi Arabia. You're as a foreigner. You can't do that. You can't become a citizen over there. You don't get to run for office in Qatar. Like, as a. As a Westerner, it's not allowed. Forget about being gay. We all know where that goes. Arguably life in prison or death in the vast majority of Muslim countries. But the things that we do here in the west are absolutely forbidden in the vast majority of the world, and nobody wants to address that piece. There's. There's a. What do you think about this, though? I want to show you a video of a young girl who's Somalian, but she's born in America. And I. I mean, I got it, Tommy. I'm just trying to be fair, right? I'm trying to just look at this from every angle. Take a look at this video and tell me what you think.

[D]

Hi. So I just really want to make this video from, like, a human space. This is something I've been really meaning to say, and I'm so glad that I can finally articulate it to you guys. So I'm Somali. I grew up in Minnetonka. I've been raised here my entire life. I am born here, and I've lived here. I've studied here.

[A]

I'm a pre med.

[D]

I do research, and that's usually the type of stuff I talk about on my page. But right now I feel like it's really important for me to say this. What I'm going to say is that I have been getting so many messages telling me to go back to your country, go back to your country. But the Reality of the situation is the United States is the only country I've ever known my entire life. And the thing is, the great irony of it all is I'm not the ambassador of Somalia. I don't speak for Somali people. I'm not a spokesperson for this community. I'm just one young person trying to study, navigate life and live like any other 20 something year old living here in this state. And so something that I feel like is going on is that there's a lot of immigrant people and first gen, second gen kids with like me, with this weight on our shoulders, trying to explain everything going on in our communities, trying to defend our communities. But I'm really no different from any other 20 something year old trying to make it here in this state, in this country, in this world.

[A]

Do you think that we're, we're lacking empathy and understanding for this young girl and girls like her or young people like her? Or do you think there's no room for it right now?

[B]

It's not that there's no room for it. And we of course always have empathy for individual people and what they're going through in their plight and their struggles. And even if they are from Somalia, I wouldn't want to be in Somalia. I wouldn't want to grow up in Somalia.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I feel for people that were dealt that card in life because it's not a great place to be. And we know that. But for me, I guess I look at it and again, there are, there is a gray area here, fully understand that. But when you look at it logically, and I was actually just talking to John Rich about that, can you imagine if they would take 200,000 people from Texas? And we're not talking the Texas that's been overrun by illegals and the Muslim community, we're talking Texas. Texas, like, let's talk like cowboys. And you took 200,000 of them and you plopped them in Saudi Arabia. Do you think that the Saudi community would be like, how can we bend and mold ourselves to accommodate these Texans? They wouldn't, to your earlier point, but we're expected to. And we're expected to be like, well, you know, oh, well, this person, I get it. We have empathy. We are a nation of immigrants. And if you come into this country and you want to better it and you want to assimilate and you still want to have your culture, but you want to be an American and you love this country, then I think if you can contribute that, we welcome you here. But this whole process that these people were brought in by was just like, let's just drop hundreds of thousands of people into Minnesota. Could there be anything more, more opposite of Minnesota than Somalia? But they were just expected to absorb it. You remember during the campaign when we were talking about the Haitians, you can't dump 100,000 Haitians in Ohio either and just expect everyone to be like, I'm empathetic. Why are we expected to take on that burden?

[A]

You know, there's actually video of a black woman talking about how her kids aren't learning math in school because the teacher is too busy trying to explain in English the math problem to the kids that don't speak English, who've come in from other countries. And you know, when I had this conversation with Winsomer L. Sears, who was Jamaican, she spoke about how her father had to prove they could contribute, he could support his family, they could speak English. Because it then begins to suck resources away from Americans who are already struggling and is going to naturally breed a resentment there that would not otherwise be there. And I, I referenced the fact that she's black because just black, these are other black people, so it can't be a skin color problem. Like we, we got, at some point we gotta be able to pull away the racism card when it's a black American talking about a black Haitian or a black Somalian. And one other thing I want to point out to you is, Tommy, all week long all I've seen are headlines about people from different countries who are here illegally committing crimes and being released. There was a guy who committed a hit and run on a kid. He'd been deported four times previously. Did you see the video of this guy? Mohammed Dawood Al Aqzay, 30 years old, Afghanistan national living in Fort Worth. And he was charged with sending an interstate threat and vowing violence and bomb threats. You saw this, like, I could get, I could literally keep reading to you. I mean, I, I have got one more just to prove a point, but we could keep going. On December 3rd, ICE agents arrested Jean Shah Safi, a 26 year old Afghan national living in Virginia, on federal charges of providing material support to isis. Not only, by the way, are these people flowing in in large part without proper vetting, but they're being caught and released, deported, coming back and released in sanctuary cities. And one would think that this would ignite a complete revolution in Los Angeles, in San Francisco, in Nashville, when you see a person who's been deported four times kill a child and get released. But it's, it's not what do you think it takes to communicate with people on the other side of the aisle that this is not about racism them, it's about protecting Americans and protecting American values. Like how are we messaging this wrong that your race in Tennessee was so fricking close?

[B]

Well, I'll tell you this too. In order for Democrats to understand the gravity of the situation, it has to impact them personally. And until it does, they don't care. And I think case in point, when Governor Abbott and Governor DeSantis started busing the illegals to these sanctuary cities and states, that's when you started to see a shift. Now again, they were still busing into the cities in the states and they were still mostly impacting already marginalized and under resourced communities. So we're talking the inner cities which were most gravely impacted by the mass importation of people. But the thing about it is all these Democrats who are contributing money to Democrat campaigns and electing people like Gavin Newsom and Karen Bass and Eric Swalwell and Chuck Schumer and all the rest, they are largely white educated liberals who have money who are not touched by any of this. Their kids are not going to school where they are, you know, having resources siphoned away by non English speaking students. They don't necessarily have to worry as much about their safety and security because a lot of them live in gated communities where all the people they've imported could not penetrate. So it doesn't impact them until it impacts them. And I think about this all the time in California with the Palisades fire, you see the outrage by a lot of white affluent liberals about what happened in the Palisades and they're finally, finally looking at their leadership differently. But what did it take? It took their home being burnt to the ground for them to understand the leadership sucks. But when it didn't impact them, a lot of those people were the white affluent liberals that were just happy to welcome in the third world. They were happy to vote for all Democrats down the ticket. They were happy to have the gas tax and, and the Prop 47 and all these things until it touched them. And that's kind of a narcissistic way to live, isn't it?

[A]

I gotta be honest, I think I, I think I've been a little bit guilty of that though, Tommy, because it does. You're not really awake. And what I mean by that is you think the world exists only as you view it because that's the media that you're taking in. That's what you're seeing on social media. That's who you're surrounded by. You're seeing the video of this young Somali American girl, and you're thinking, how could you turn your back on this young child? She's this beautiful young woman. She's pre med. She just wants to contribute. Like, that's all you're seeing. You're not seeing the death to America chance in Dearborn. You're not. You're not seeing it. You're not seeing the headlines of the criminals that are killing innocent Americans and being released like Lake and Riley. You're not actually seeing it. So then, like, we'll take Anna Kasparian, for example, who was attacked by homeless people. And when she was vocal about it, the left turned on her and called her a racist, despite the fact that the people who were attacked her were white people.

[B]

People.

[A]

And then all of a sudden, she. She woke up. You know, I started to see it with woke ideologies regarding health. And I started to see it when the fight for gays to have equal rights, meaning I pay my taxes. I would like to have the same protections for my family financially and in a host of different ways, turned into, we're transing gender dysphoric kids. And you're just like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. But I think it does kind of have to touch you to wake you up. And what's scary is that if and when it does, it never goes well. It never goes well. And I'll give you one more example. And this isn't actually about immigration. It's about crime in general. So my family, obviously, we're from California. My brother is very far on the left. My mom is also very far on the left. And my brother now is worried because he's arguably about to be engaged. I think it's coming any day. He wants to start a family, and he's afraid about crime where they live because he's had people pull guns on him and rob them. And the long story short is that in these blue cities, they keep releasing criminals. The guy that just lit the girl on fire in the subway, the. The guy that stabbed Irina Zarutska on the. The train across the board. These are. These are not even immigrants. These are criminals that blue cities are releasing. Last thought on this. Are the Democrats sacrificing women at the altar of wokeism?

[B]

But who is voting for the Democrats? It's women. It's women. You know, they talk all the time. What I love is when liberal women lecture conservative women about how we're voting against our interests. When you don't have public safety. The people that are most vulnerable to that policy or to that lifestyle are women and children. But women are the ones that are going to bear the brunt of it. You just saw the poor little girl trying to go to NYU that was punched and had her hair pulled by somebody again, who was released how many times. Who keeps doing it, by the way? He's a predator. He's hit people. He's done all these awful things. And they, they get him. They release him. They get him. They release him. They get him, Release him. But it's women that are paying the price for all these public safety threats. Whether they're American or they're illegal alien or their anchor babies, it doesn't really matter what color they are, where they're from. It's women who pay the price for a lot of this, but it's also women who keep voting for exactly what I said earlier, which is the suicidal empathy. It's, well, you know, I love everybody. Tolerance, peace, coexist. Excuse me, you can't coexist with people who hate you and want to kill you. So, again, yeah, they are sacrificing women. They're sacrificing women's sports. They don't care about that anymore. Right. They want to erase women's and women's categories, but it just goes so far beyond that. But it's the people that are sitting there pulling the strings and it, but it's the people that are voting for it are the people that are going to be most impacted by it. But the white liberal women, they just, they can't see past it. And I don't get it. Has a lot to do with the university system, I think, but it's going to take a lot to get to change their minds.

[A]

I could talk to you about this forever. And I know you need to head off to Fox, but where can people find you to get more from you? You're so eloquent and educated and articulate on these matters. We need, we need more Tomi Lahren in the world. Where can they find you?

[B]

I have my show here on Outkick. Tomi Lahren is fearless on YouTube, of course, all social media. And I co host the big weekend show on Fox News every Saturday and Sunday from 5 to 8pm Eastern. So we hope that you'll watch. And Jillian, it's always my pleasure to talk to you. I appreciate it when you're on my show and I'm so happy to come on yours. You've been just a common sense voice that a lot of people have heard and listened to and have opened their eyes, ears and minds. So we always appreciate when you speak up for common sense conservative values. It's a big asset to the movement.

[A]

Thank you team. I really appreciate you and I look forward to when we talk again.

[B]

Thanks so much Jillian. Looking forward to it.

[C]

Thank you so much for watching. If you enjoyed the podcast, please like comment, subscribe and share.

[A]

And make sure to let me know.

[C]

What guests you want to see on in the future.