UNCANCELLABLE: Tom MacDonald on Freedom, Fear, and Fame

Summary

Podcast Summary
Keeping It Real: Conversations with Jillian Michaels
Episode: UNCANCELLABLE: Tom MacDonald on Freedom, Fear, and Fame
Date: December 28, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this dynamic interview, Jillian Michaels sits down with Tom MacDonald, the polarizing independent artist often described as “the establishment loves to hate and the people refuse to ignore.” They delve into Tom’s journey from pro wrestling and personal crises to using music as a vehicle for social commentary—unfiltered by label or industry expectations. The discussion explores the meaning of freedom, the trauma and transformation of addiction, the culture wars roiling America and beyond, and what it truly means to be “uncancellable.” The episode is rich in real talk on fear, mental health, the manipulation of media, resilience, and what it means to stand up for one’s truth in a world eager to shut you down.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Tom’s Unlikely Path: From Wrestling to Political Rap

• Pro wrestling was Tom’s first dream—a career cut short by mounting injuries and backstage politics ([02:47]–[03:44]).
  • “It’s extremely political... You wouldn’t know it unless you were in the wrestling business... it just took a toll on my body. So I just kind of...” – Tom MacDonald (03:25)
• Creativity from a young age—poetry, songwriting and inspiration from his grandfather, a “super patriotic Canadian” fascinated with American and world politics ([04:08]–[06:47]).
• Merging art and commentary happened organically after wrestling—he never envisioned becoming a culture-shaping artist or political force ([06:47]–[06:47]).

The Crisis that Changed Everything: Addiction and Mental Health

• Tom describes a devastating mental breakdown after years of partying, addiction, and personal disarray ([14:10]–[24:17]).
  • “My life is divided by that moment. My entire life is pre mental breakdown and post mental breakdown.” – Tom MacDonald (14:11)
• Harrowing details: Panic attack, feeling unrecognizable, being rescued by family, and a broken mental healthcare system ([16:49]–[23:05]).
• On the importance and pitfalls of medication: Used Ativan to bridge the crisis, recognizing both its necessity and its risks ([23:05]–[24:47]).
• Recovery: Total lifestyle overhaul—quitting substance use, improving diet, exercise, therapy, and the role of personal research in rebuilding his life ([25:32]–[27:38]).

Nova, Partnership & Poverty

• Nova Rockefeller, Tom’s partner, was integral to his artistic rebirth. Their early years in LA were marked by extreme poverty and resourcefulness ([27:11]–[30:16]).
  • “We did all of our shopping at the 99 cent store... there was times we couldn’t afford our utilities and groceries at the same time.” – Tom MacDonald (29:16)
• Nova’s support extended from personal to professional—she helped launch Tom’s independent music business ([67:02]–[67:03]).

“Dear Rappers”—The Turning Point

• Sparked by frustration over mainstream rap’s inauthenticity, “Dear Rappers” was written in a single, inspired burst (“It was like God looked down at me that day and was like, you know what, kid? I’m gonna give you a shot.” [35:32]).
• Resourcefulness: Raising $1,100 from family and friends for a single social media campaign—payoff came with 1.2 million views overnight ([37:24]–[38:36]).

Speaking Out: Culture War, Media Manipulation & Being “Uncancellable”

• Tom critiques both mainstream media and pop culture as tools for social engineering and control ([01:20]–[01:32]; [54:31]–[55:49]):
  • “They use the news to control adults and they use pop culture to control kids... There has to be some sort of connection there.” – Tom MacDonald (20:13)
• He positions himself as a voice “for everyone tired of being lectured about race, gender, and politics by a system designed to divide us” ([01:03]).
• Experiences being labeled with every pejorative—racist, transphobic, Zionist, fascist, etc.—by both left and right ([57:24]–[58:11]).

Art, Authenticity, and Responsibility

• Tom reflects on his journey from imitating rappers to using his own voice: moving from writing about “cars and girls” to tackling polarizing issues, always striving to be genuine ([43:34]–[44:45]).
  • “I just wanted to make music about shit that I really cared about.” – Tom MacDonald (44:49)
• He stresses the importance of not perpetuating cycles of self-destruction through his art—and the burden of being misunderstood ([44:49]–[48:41]).

Independence, Entrepreneurship, and Outworking the System

• Tom’s formula for “uncancellability”: Build your own ecosystem, never rely on gatekeepers, reinvest relentlessly, outwork everyone ([65:45]–[70:35]).
  • “Anything the system can offer you, you can do it yourself. It’s a longer road, it’s a harder road. But...if you are not afraid of hard work, you can…be successful.” – Tom MacDonald (69:46)
• On record labels: Describes their limitations and why he currently avoids signing other artists ([70:42]–[74:06]).

Safety, Fear, and Freedom in the Public Arena

• The consequences of being such a polarizing figure: Security threats cast a shadow over touring, and balancing courage with caution is a constant struggle ([80:18]–[85:07]).
  • “There comes a point where we can only do so much... I have to be able to live my life as well.” – Tom MacDonald (82:08)

Passing the Torch: Actionable Wisdom for Listeners

• Tom’s advice for those struggling: There’s no perfect formula, but resilience, hard work, and self-reliance are crucial ([64:32]–[65:19]).
• Community and family—keeping a tight circle helps maintain stability (“I have four dogs, a wonderful girlfriend, and a couple friends... That’s my circle.” [67:03]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On addiction and mental health:
  • “My life is divided by that moment. My entire life is pre mental breakdown and post mental breakdown.” ([14:11])
  • “If you don’t know where the fire started, you will surely burn in it.” ([14:33])
• On mainstream controversy:
  • “I can’t be canceled, there’s no way you can stop me. Fully independent, there’s no label who can drop me.” – Tom MacDonald (Opening performance, [00:08])
  • “There’s not a racist lyric in the entire song. They’re actually the exact opposite.” – Jillian Michaels, on “Dear Rappers” ([50:11])
• On freedom of speech and labels:
  • “So I’ve been called everything... racist, transphobic, homophobic, white supremacist, Nazi, Zionist, fucking Zionist.” – Tom MacDonald ([57:41])
• On dealing with fear:
  • “Fear is a strong vibration…You let a little bit of it in, it multiplies and it grows, and there’s a flood that occurs after it.” – Tom MacDonald ([83:46])
• On independence:
  • “If I want to be successful in this field...how do I create my own ecosystem?” ([65:45])
  • “No sponsor is going to drop us. There’s nobody that’s going to tell us, ‘No, you can’t release that.’ Let’s just do it our way.” ([67:02])
• Music as therapy and action:
  • “I usually can’t have a conversation about those things, but I can decipher enough to write a song about it.” ([92:12])
• On resilience:
  • “Anything that the system can offer you, you can do it yourself. It’s a longer road. It’s a harder road.” ([69:46])

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Opening & Performative Verse – [00:02]–[00:33]
• Childhood & Political Upbringing – [04:08]–[06:47]
• Addiction, Breakdown & Recovery – [14:10]–[27:38]
• Dear Rappers: Inspiration & Launch – [32:34]–[38:36]
• Music, Responsibility, and Outrage Culture – [43:34]–[48:41]
• Media Manipulation & Culture Control – [54:31]–[56:22]
• Being Uncancellable & Culture War Fallout – [57:24]–[62:44]
• Advice for Struggling Youth – [63:54]–[65:19]
• The Business of Independence – [65:45]–[70:35]
• Security & Touring Fears – [80:18]–[85:07]
• Fan Q&A w/ Phoenix – [87:13]–[97:57]

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Phoenix’s Fan Q&A (with Timestamps):

• Favorite song written & why:

  • “Dear Rappers” — the turning point.
  • “Ghost” — a love song for Nova, first pop success.
  • “You Missed” — written after the Trump assassination attempt, capturing raw, current emotion. ([88:21]–[94:24])

• Favorite song of all time:

  • “Going to California” by Led Zeppelin.
  • Meaningful because of lines about chasing dreams and the American journey, reminds Tom of his family and the risks he took. ([94:33]–[96:52])

• Favorite tattoo:

  • The one on his stomach: “If you don’t know where the fire started, you will surely burn in it.” Symbolizes surviving chaos. ([96:53]–[97:37])

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Where to Find Tom MacDonald

• Music: All major streaming platforms for singles. Full albums on CD/USB only at hangovergang.com ([98:43]).
• Tom is fully independent—purchasing directly supports him without intermediaries.

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Tone and Takeaways

The episode is raw, honest, and at times vulnerable—a testament to Jillian Michaels’ interviewing style and Tom’s commitment to authenticity. Their conversation navigates trauma, controversy, and cultural fracturing without losing sight of hope and resilience. Listeners walk away with a deeper understanding of both the danger and the necessity of speaking your truth—especially when the “brand is me.” Tom’s story is a blueprint for carving out independence, facing fear, and defining your own success outside the boundaries set by institutions.

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For more on Tom MacDonald and his message of resilience, independence, and truth-telling, visit hangovergang.com.

“You don't craft a messenger with cotton candy. Anybody who is going to be that voice has to go through hell, or people don't identify.”
– Jillian Michaels ([39:46])

Transcript

[Jillian Michaels]

Today I'm sitting down with the single most controversial independent artist in the music industry.

[Tom McDonald (performer)]

I can't be canceled there's no way that you can stop me Fully independent, there's no label who can drop me Y' all been starting rumors Let me help you with some. Yeah, He's a racist, he's a sexist he's in love with Donald Trump. Y' all can't cancel me My life is scandal free There ain't no sponsors taking losses? Cause the brand is me My hands are clean My family and my fans agree? Y' all can't cancel me for facts.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Because you're mad and weak he's the.

[Jillian Michaels]

Man the establishment loves to hate and the people refuse to ignore. He's topped the charts Without a label, without radio, and despite every attempt to silence him, we discuss how he battled his way out of addiction and extreme poverty to become the voice of a disenfranchised generation.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

This is the first time in my life, like, my Facebook fan page went from like, 900 people to 25,000 people, like, in four days.

[Jillian Michaels]

Standing up for everyone. Tired of being lectured about race, gender, and politics. By a system designed to divide us, we're diving headfirst into the culture war. The corruption rotting our institutions, and the ways media is propagandized against kids and adults.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

They use news to control adults, and they use pop culture to control kids. There has to be some sort of talking between news and pop culture. There has to be some sort of.

[Jillian Michaels]

Connection there and the ultimate rebellion of simply telling the truth. This is my interview with Tom McDonald, keeping it real with Jillian Michaels. Welcome to the show. How are you?

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Thank you for having me. Good, good, good, good, good.

[Jillian Michaels]

You know, you are such a special voice. There are a couple of young men that I think have this innate ability to really wake people up and do it in a way that cuts through the noise but has an exceptional empathy. And I'm gonna say one was Charlie and one is Jeff Dye. I don't know if you know who he is. He's a hilarious, adorable comedian. But, like, you're a musician, Jeff's a comedian. Charlie was a pundit. And you guys all use your own unique art form to call out crazy and shape culture. And I. I want to go back to the beginning. When you're a young kid, did you see yourself being this independent cultural force in not just music, but, honestly, politics?

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Yeah, I mean, not really. Like, I started out as a pro wrestler. Like, I did, like, WWF wrestling for, like, a long time. And that's What I thought I was going to do for the rest of my life, as far as I could project when I was a kid, like, that's. That's what I was going to do. That was the path I was going to go. And then just sort of. You wouldn't know it unless you were in the wrestling business, but it's extremely political business. Really super political. And I just mean, like, backstage politics. Guys, like, sort of jockeying for position and burying each other and trying to get ahead and just like. Like entertainment.

[Jillian Michaels]

Yeah, I was gonna say like every other.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Yeah, like everything else.

[Jillian Michaels]

Industry, of course.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

So, yeah, this was like, sort of like mounting backstage politics and accumulated injuries. I blew out my knees and. And hurt my neck a couple times and got a lot of bone chips in my elbows and just. It just took a toll on my body. So I just kind of.

[Jillian Michaels]

So funny. Everyone thinks it's fake. And I remember hearing about the. You destroyed both your knees, and you just literally could not do it anymore.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Yeah. So while I was sitting on the shelf, sort of like, trying to rehab injuries, I was just like. I'd always been, like, a super creative kid, and so I'd been writing, like, a lot of poetry when I was young and short stories. And my grandfather was, like, a really accomplished writer.

[Jillian Michaels]

And he was political, you said super, but into American politics. And you're Canadian.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Yeah, originally he was, like a big Canadian patriot, which was, like. It was very rare in Canada at that time. Like, as somebody that is from Canada, I think up until recently, I think Canadians really, like, struggle with their identity. They're not really sure what it means to. To be Canadian.

[Jillian Michaels]

That's interesting.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

And, I mean, that's how it felt for me when I was growing up. And I think that's. Canada is, like, extremely multicultural. So you have a lot of people from all over the world, all sort of living in Canada, and everybody has, like, total freedom to practice whatever their culture, religion is. And, you know, growing up, you don't see people walking around Canada with a Canadian flag on their shirt, whereas America, like, that flag has become, like, a symbol. It represents something. The Canadian flag doesn't really represent the same stuff.

[Jillian Michaels]

Maple syrup is what I think of.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Yeah.

[Jillian Michaels]

Terrible things say, but the freaking. Yeah.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

So there was. There was a little bit of an identity crisis there, I think. But my grandfather was always just a super patriotic Canadian and just loved Canada and celebrated Canada Canada Day. Like, people celebrate fourth of July here. We had, like, a big dinner and fireworks and. And everything, so. And I used to just, like, sit on the end of his bed, especially towards the end of his life, he was sick, and he spent a lot of time just laying in bed. My dad and I would go out and visit him, like, a couple times a week, and we'd just sit in his room, sit on the bed, and he had a TV in the room, and we just watched the news. And he was super into American politics, as was my dad. They were into global politics. Like, they were just interested in what was going on in the world. So I got to be a fly on the wall for, like, a lot of those convers. And I think through my dad and my grandfather, like, those things became important to me. But, you know, I never thought that I was gonna travel down this road and sort of merge my interest in politics with my art and use it as sort of like a creative outlet. So it was just like the kind of marriage of, like, two things that just sort of really, like, organically happened in my life. And here I am, like, 20 years removed from that small kid sitting on that bed, and they've sort of come together and became this whole other thing.

[Jillian Michaels]

As a small kid watching this stuff on the news, do you remember feeling any sense of alarm or outrage or concern? And what I mean by that is, I don't. I'm older than you, but if I was to go back to 20, 30, 40, right up until 2016, I was kind of like. I don't even think I knew Schwarzenegger was the governor of California, and we called him the. Whatever the hell, the Terminator. I don't even remember. No one cared.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

The governator.

[Jillian Michaels]

The governator. Thank you. Nobody cared. Like, I fought for gay marriage so I could protect my family, and we got that, and it was, like, super duper wonderful. And everybody was getting along. We had a black president. Gays could marry. Things were looking pretty good to me. We were in these forever wars. That was annoying. Everybody wanted that to end. But I don't remember ever being compelled to feel like I needed to jump into a fight because the world was inverted. Did you have those feelings as a young kid? What gripped you at that age?

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Yeah, I didn't. I didn't feel any sense of alarm or that I needed to get in the middle of anything or provide any type of commentary when I was a kid at all. The first time I really felt like that was pretty similar to yourself, I guess, was probably about, like, 2017. When.

[Jillian Michaels]

Is this when you wrote Dear Rappers?

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Yeah.

[Jillian Michaels]

Can you talk about that a little bit? So hold on. So I want to Back up real quick. So you're a poet.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Yeah.

[Jillian Michaels]

And I obviously know a little bit about you, and you talked about writing songs and poetry and kind of tucking it away.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Yeah.

[Jillian Michaels]

And then the wrestling injury happens. Now there's nowhere to go. You start getting into music.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Right. So I'm like, so where are we.

[Jillian Michaels]

From that point to Dear rappers? And like I said, what is dear Rappers for people who don't know?

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

So, like, essentially at that point, like, I'm hurt. I'm trying to figure out how to move forward, what my creative outlet is moving forward because I can't wrestle anymore. And a big part of me didn't want to wrestle anymore. It was a weird duality because I love it so much. I love it to this day. Like, John Cena's last matches tomorrow, and I'm tooting it.

[Jillian Michaels]

Like.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Like, I. Like, I enjoy pro wrestling, but it just got to this point where I was. So. I was so beat up and. And it was so stressful. Jockeying for position and arguing with was difficult. Like, I was like, you know, 16, 17 years old. And when I was watching pro wrestling on tv, like, a lot of people watch it as, like, fans, and they cheer for the good guy and boo the bad guy and get upset when the bad guy wins and cheats and whatever. But I was watching it already, knowing in my mind this what I want to do one day. So I'm, like, studying it and I'm figuring out, how are these guys falling and not getting hurt? And. And. And everything in wrestling is, like, left. You. When you. When you work a guy's left arm, you twist their left arm, you clothesline with your left, you get up and turn to the left, you feed to the left. Everything's left. So I'm watching all of these things, putting the pieces together in my head. So by the time I get into pro wrestling, I'm like a super. I'm like a natural. I get in. I have my first match after, like, 29 days, which is, like, unheard of. Most people train for years. Um, so it put me in this real dicey situation because I'm like 16 or 17 years old, and I'm experiencing something that I'm good at for the first time in my life. Like, I was never really that good at much. Like, I played a little bit of basketball and stuff like that, but I was never, like, a star player. I was just like, you know, I was athletic. I could play, but, you know, wasn't going to. Was never going to be the mvp. So wrestling was like the first thing I ever did that was like, oh, I'm really, really good at this. And it's the first time I'd experienced that. So I was very vocal about that. So I'm like 17 years old, I'm wrestling guys that are 35 and they're saying, hey, I want to do this and this and this tonight. And I'm like, that's a terrible idea. We're going to do this and this and this. So I got this reputation where this kid is really difficult to work with.

[Jillian Michaels]

So, you know, that only happened to women.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Interesting.

[Jillian Michaels]

Yeah, little, little upstart threatened everybody.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Yeah, so. So yeah, it was just a difficult road because everybody was like, this kid's difficult to work with and guys were trying to like intentionally hurt me and it was just like a, you know, it's just a thing.

[Jillian Michaels]

I'm surprised it that usually I do resign that kind of behavior, like that gunslinger behavior for Gen X women of like, there's room in this town for one of us and it's going to be me. Like I, I, I have.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Pro wrestling is a very like ego driven, I mean, it's fake fighting. So like to some degree, like a lot of these guys that are in pro wrestling, they're not actual tough guys. They're guys that pretend to be tough guys in a ring in front of a room full of people. So they really want to be viewed as like the top dog and the best at what they do. So it creates a lot of friction.

[Jillian Michaels]

Okay.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

So the politics and the injuries, I get sidelined because of what was labeled by others as a poor attitude. But really I was just like a kid that was excited about being good at something and I had better ideas than these guys and I said, these are the better ideas and that upset them. So whatever. So I get out of wrestling, I'm sitting around and I. My first sort of love from a musical standpoint and like writing poetry was like, I was writing like rock songs and folk songs and country songs and like jingles for trucks and just like, you know, just whatever fun, like kid stuff. And I pretty much, you know, I was like a kid and I pretty much had discovered about myself at that time that I didn't have like a great like rock and roll voice. I wasn't like a Joe Cocker or like a Robert Plant or an Aussie. I was just a kid that could write but couldn't really sing that well. So I was like, well, I want to make music and I can't sing very well. So like what avenue do I travel here? And I started turning them into rap songs because I didn't have to sing to rap. I could just write and I could speak the words. So I started rapping and did that for years and years and years and moved away from my hometown to bigger cities and was trying to chase this dream down and like, along the way discovered partying and got really wrapped up in. I just, I guess just sort of like making. I was living out, like, the rap lyrics that I was, like, hearing from my, like, favorite rappers. You know, I'd hear them talking about partying and drugs and alcohol and girls and cars and clothes and like, that's what I was like, oh, I'm gonna be the cool, like, rapper guy. That's what I'm gonna do. So that led me down, like a super destructive path. And then I end up. I guess this is like, it's so bizarre because I. I still tell people all the time, like, oh, I had a mental breakdown four years ago, but it was really like eight years ago. But it still feels like it was like yesterday.

[Jillian Michaels]

Why?

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

It just has such a profound impact on me. Like, my whole life is divided by that moment. Like, my entire life is pre mental breakdown and post mental breakdown everything. That's the way I look at it.

[Jillian Michaels]

I, you know, I saw you say, oh, my gosh, you have a tattoo and it says, if you can't find the source of the fire, you're sure to burn in it.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

If you don't know where the fire started, you will surely burn in it.

[Jillian Michaels]

That's it.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Yeah.

[Jillian Michaels]

Where did the fire start?

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

I think for me, I think a lot of people, the fire is what they're trying to bury or put out with drinking or drugs or whatever. But at that point in my life, like, I wasn't trying to, like, run from anything, and I wasn't trying to bury anything. And I wasn't trying to hide. I wasn't trying to.

[Jillian Michaels]

Trying to find something.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Maybe I was just being a. It started out as being a dumb kid just drinking. And then I was like, hey, I really like this. I went out and drank one night and I was like, I had the best time of my life. And I was like, you know what? I want to have the best time of my life as often as possible. So then all of a sudden you're drinking, like all the time. And I remember, like a couple times I was like, is this spinning out of control right now? Like, am I addicted to drinking? And I'd be like, I'm not drinking Tomorrow. And then I'd wake up and like by 10am I was drinking and I was like, I think I'm. I think it's got his claws in me. And I didn't even realize it. Like at that point in time. I'd been drinking for years and I thought I was just having a good time. And then all of a sudden you realize you're really not having that good a time. You're sitting in this crummy apartment in a basement suite in a bad side of town. I'm still making music and stuff. Like there was nights where I was very functional. I'd like go to work, I'd drink, I'd come home, I'd go out, I'd party, I'd come back, I would record music. I'd wake up the next day and there was times I woke up the next day and pressed spacebar on my computer and I couldn't even understand what I was saying, what I recorded the night before. Like, it was brutal. So I have this big mental breakdown after years and years and years of partying and I'm just like, like the worst night of my life. I was just like laying in bed and it was like after like a long night and all of a sudden my heart starts racing. I'm like laying in bed and I'm like, can't catch my breath. Yeah. What's going on here? And I never had a panic attack before.

[Jillian Michaels]

They're terrifying.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Yeah. I thought I was dying.

[Jillian Michaels]

I've not had one. But I know people, they think they're dying. They call them. They and.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jillian Michaels]

Think you're dying.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Yeah. So I got out of bed and like the room is shifting and I can hear my heart pounding in my ears and I'm like trying to catch my breath and I'm. I start pacing. This is at like 3 in the morning. And I walked from my, my bedroom to my bathroom and I like looked at myself in the mirror and like I, I hear people say this all the time and up until this moment I thought it was just sort of like a wishy washy, abstract way of like, of describing and like a mental state. But. But I looked in the mirror and literally like did not recognize myself. I like looked in the mirror and I was like, is that me? Like, what the. And I'm like touching my face and I'm looking at me and I'm like ghost white and I got bags under my eyes and. And my eyes are having difficulty focusing and I'm just like literally like having this like, existential moment where I'm like. That is actually like my physical being in the mirror and I don't recognize it. This is so strange. So I walked back from the bathroom to my bedroom and I went back and forth like that, bedroom to bathroom, bathroom to bedroom for hours and hours and hours. Like probably till 9 or 10 in the morning. I just walked back and forth in this apartment, pacing, my heart pounding and trying to catch my breath. And it like got to this point where I was like, I think I'm gonna die. So I called my mom and I left like a real scary voicemail on her phone.

[Jillian Michaels]

Yeah, I cannot.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Yeah.

[Jillian Michaels]

As a mom, I'm just like, oh, God. You said you called your mom.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Yeah. And it's probably. Yeah, yeah. So she didn't pick up. I left a real scary voicemail. And then I wrote my name, my parents name, their phone numbers. I wrote up all the pertinent information on this little scrap of paper I found. And I just laid on the bathroom floor and I put the paper on my chest and I had 911 dialed on my phone. And my. My thumb was just hovering over the call button because I was like, if I'm gonna have a jammer, the second I feel like I'm dying, I'm gonna hit call. The ambulance will come. It'll find the information, let my parents know, like, whatever. Like, I was like, pretty sure that was it. And then woke up the next day. And then what happened from my mom called back and my dad was sailing around the world at the point. I'd helped my dad put together the sailboat, and he was out sailing, which was his dream. Like, he'd been talking about it since I was a child. So my mom calls and she said, I told your dad what's going on? He's going to dock the boat. Boat and fly home if you don't come home. And I was like, call dad's satellite phone right now and tell him, do not come back. I'll. I will come home. But I was like, so anxiety ridden and unwell. I couldn't, like, I literally couldn't leave the apartment. Like, I. I would cook one fried egg and I'd be eating like one singular egg, and I'd be like gagging and throwing up, trying to just break down.

[Jillian Michaels]

Just trying.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Yeah.

[Jillian Michaels]

Yeah.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

So my mom had to get a friend of mine to come break into my apartment, pack my bags, and essentially like kidnap me, take me to the airport, put me on a plane, and flew me home. So for nine months, I lived with my mom and I said four words to her every day. She'd wake up in the morning and I'd be sitting on the couch and she'd say, how you doing? And I'd say not good. And then she'd go to work and then she'd come home and she'd say, how you doing? When she came in the door and I'd say not good. And it was like that for nine months. And the healthcare system in Canada is a joke.

[Jillian Michaels]

Yeah.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

So it's free, but you have to wait like extended periods of time to get care. So like I had called because the one thing that I thought might help, they wouldn't give me any, any medicine. They gave me a bunch of wrong medicine. They gave me.

[Jillian Michaels]

Saw. I saw you talk about that because there's. I want to continue. We'll get there. Sorry, I. Don't interrupt.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

It's all good. They give me Ciprolax, which is like a synthetic, like dopamine because they thought I had like. Or sorry, synthetic serotonin because I thought I had low serotonin and that's what was causing this. That was incorrect. So I'd take those pills and I already had regular serotonin levels, so that was jacking my serotonin levels up and it was making me like manic. Like I was talking to a friend of mine one day and I got so excited when I was talking to him that I punched a door frame and like, and like cracked my knuckles. Cuz I was just so, like pent up. So after that they put me on Seroquel, which they use in like high doses for people that have schizophrenia, which I didn't know. And.

[Jillian Michaels]

Right.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

That was.

[Jillian Michaels]

And you didn't have.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Yeah, yeah. So that was not the, the, the right diagnosis either. So that led me down a whole other path that was gnarly. And then sort of my last option was like, I think I need to like go to therapy and like talk to somebody that knows more about this than I know. But I was in the time and the therapist visit, the cl. The soonest one that they could book me was like nine or ten months out.

[Jillian Michaels]

Oh my God.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

And I was like, I don't know if I'm going to last like a month. Like I'm not going to be able to wait 10 months to talk to somebody. So this goes on for a few months. I end up going to the doctor one day and I just told him like straight up. I was like, hey, like I need something to help me like now or I'm gonna kill myself. Like, I will not be back in this office. You'll never see me again. If I walk out of here without something, I'm dead. So this guy, this doctor is like, okay, I'll give you Ativan. Like, I'll give you six Ativans or something really small. And I was like, okay, give them to me. So I went home and took this Ativan and, like, within 30 minutes. And I am not. I do not endorse pharmaceuticals or prescription medication of any kind.

[Jillian Michaels]

But this is important.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Yeah, continue. Yeah, but I just want to be very clear about that. It was not the answer to my problems, but 30 minutes after taking that Ativan, I experienced, like, a calm that I hadn't experienced, like, in nine months.

[Jillian Michaels]

Yeah.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

I finally, like, felt like myself again for, like, two minutes. And I was like, holy shit. Like, I remember, like, what it felt like to, like, to be me. So I used that medication as, like.

[Jillian Michaels]

A tool as you're supposed to.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Yeah.

[Jillian Michaels]

Twice in my life, I took Zoloft. I'm small and sensitive to drugs, so a pediatric dose of Zoloft, I think it was, like, 0.25 or whatever the heck it was. And one was when I was 27 and my whole life fell apart. Always seems to those twenties. And another one was when I separated from my ex. And. And it. You're in a free fall.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Yeah.

[Jillian Michaels]

You need something to put a floor under you at times so you can think.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Yeah.

[Jillian Michaels]

And this is why it's actually so important to say, like, there's nuance to these conversations. It's not good, bad, black, white. This is how you're supposed to use these things.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Yeah, exactly. The problem is they're so addictive that, like. And I did end up having a little. A small bout of, like, dependency on it, or not really dependency, but started using it. Like, I had a headache one time that was a super localized headache in one small spot. And it lasted for, like, 30 days. And it started freaking me out to the point where I was like, I have, like, a brain tumor or something. So I started taking Ativan to, like, so I didn't have to think about it.

[Jillian Michaels]

I get it.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

So it's easy to, like, fall down that. That slope. But so I took the Ativan. It provided me with this, like, sort of, like, serenity enough to be able to. Okay, I need to find, like, the root of this problem. So I started, like, reading books and read a ton of, like, mental health books and, like, researching stuff. And I cut Out. Obviously. I quit drinking the night that I had the mental breakdown, but there was no alcohol, no sex, no fast food, no nicotine, no weed, no caffeine.

[Jillian Michaels]

You write with nicotine, though, don't you, when you write your music?

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

I used to smoke. I don't smoke anymore, thank God. So. But yeah, I have, like. I have nicotine pouches in my pocket.

[Jillian Michaels]

I have the gum in my pocket. I'm right there with you. That's a whole different piece. It's here somewhere. Right here?

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Yeah. There you go. So I cut everything out and did all the research and. And. And everything that I could and started exercising and eating better and just cleaned myself up, like, entirely. And by the. You know, that goes on for probably two months. And, like, I didn't think I was ever gonna make music again. Like, I. Like, when I was living with my mom, she was like, do you want to go to, like, Staples with me? And I'd be like, ugh, I don't know if I can go to Staples. And I, like, go to Staples. And I'd be in Staples for, like, three minutes, and I'd be like, I gotta get the out of here. Like, give me the keys to the car. Or would she take me to a movie? And, like, the previews are playing at the beginning of the movie, and I'm like, I can't sit here. I can't stay. I don't like being here. And I'd have to go home. So I was at this point where I was like, how am I ever gonna make music again if I can barely leave the house? Like, it's gnarly. Anyways, at a van, reading, research, clean myself up. That goes. You know, after, like, a couple weeks of exercising regularly and eating better and feeling like myself, I recorded a couple songs at, like, my mom's place. And I was like, okay. So I'm starting to see that there's, like, a light at the end of the tunnel and that I might actually be able to do this again. And then my lawyer calls and says, your visa is approved. You can go back to America. And I was like, holy. Like, so, like, maybe, like, four days later, I'm like, on a plane.

[Jillian Michaels]

And when did you meet Nova, though? Your girlfriend?

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Nova put me on my very first rap show ever. Really? In Canada? Yeah.

[Jillian Michaels]

How long have you been together?

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

We've been together in a romantic relationship for, like, 10 or 11 years.

[Jillian Michaels]

Oh, my God.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

I've known her for, like, 17 or 18.

[Jillian Michaels]

Okay, got it. So you're coming back to America. She comes with you, doesn't she?

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

No, she's here already. She's signed to Def Jam.

[Jillian Michaels]

Oh yeah.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

She got a record deal. She got a record deal and was signed to Def Jam and was having. I should probably let her talk about that. But like, in my estimation, one of the worst experiences of her life.

[Jillian Michaels]

Got it.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

So.

[Jillian Michaels]

Okay.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

And she's like, come down. You can stay with me. You can live with me. Like, gotcha. I was like, okay, cool. So come down to la. And we're. We're living together in Crenshaw and we're like the only two white kids for 50 miles in every direction. And the house is falling apart. And it's like practically section 8 housing, like really bad. We're like rescuing dogs all the time because there's like a. There's a dog shelter down the street from our house that's close the doors and they put a padlock on the door. But for some reason people keep showing up and leaving boxes full of dogs at the door.

[Jillian Michaels]

So a couple central. Yeah, they have adopted a few from there.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Yeah. So a few times a week north.

[Jillian Michaels]

Are like the highest skill shelters.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Yeah. Yeah. So a few times a week we'd walk down to the, to the shelter, take the boxes of dogs, bring them home, re home them, like, you know, and. And that's what we're doing. And we're. The house that we're in is like literally falling apart. Like, I'm fresh off of addiction. I'm fresh off of like a mental breakdown. I'm still very like uneasy and uncomfortable.

[Jillian Michaels]

And like about 27 this time. 26.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Yeah, about that. Yeah.

[Jillian Michaels]

Okay. Because you were dear rappers at 28.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

2017, however old I was then.

[Jillian Michaels]

Okay. Yeah, gotcha.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

So coming out of this like addiction, mental health crisis and then like thrust into poverty is like not ideal for like an addict. But yeah, so we're there when we're rescuing dogs and like this house is like, I've told this story a million times, but we did like all of our shopping at the 99 cent store. We got all of our clothes from the Goodwill and even with that type of strict budget that we were on, like, there was times that we couldn't afford like our, our utilities and the groceries at the same time. So there was like weeks that like the power would be shut off and we'd be like living by flashlight. And I plugged my fridge into an extension cord and like ran it out the window and plugged it into my neighbor's garage so our like, food wouldn't spoil. Like, it was like, it was gnarly.

[Jillian Michaels]

So I don't mean to lie.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Yeah, no, that's.

[Jillian Michaels]

That's very entrepreneurial.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Yeah. Like, looking back at it, I appreciate it. It was crazy. So. So we're in that situation and Nova is like off her record deal and I'm still trying to figure out how to A, get a record deal or B, make something of myself in music so we can get the out of Crenshaw and like get some level of normalcy like in our life. And Nova and I start like making some music together and like. And it was great. It was like some of the. I think it's some of the best stuff we ever made. But there was just no audience at the time. So we were just like in this little crack shack making awesome music that nobody ever heard. And yeah, this one day I was just like, this is like where Dear Rappers comes in. I was, I was like sitting in this house this one day and like, you gotta. There's like mice running around on the floor and there's like. I'd open the cupboards in the morning and cockroaches would like scatter off the plates and I'd have to like clean the plates before I could use them. And like I got like dollar store cheese on top of like tuna on top of bread in the toaster oven. And it was like dairy style slices. So like the cheese didn't even melt. It would like curl at the edges and turn black. And like that's what I'm eating three times a day. Like it's gnarly. And so I'm sitting there this one day and I don't know if I'm listening to like Internet radio or if we had a radio in the house or like what the was going on. But this song comes on and I'm listening. It was like Spotify or something. And it was. It was either like Drake or like G. Eazy. It was one of the big rappers that was like really like cracking at the time. And the song that came on was sort of this like commentary on their life as like a famous act rapper. They're sort of like complaining about it. It was like sort of this like, whoa is me like fame so hard. And like having all of these like relationships is so difficult and like da da da. And not knowing which car to drive. Yeah.

[Jillian Michaels]

Oh my God, the pain.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

And I was just like sitting in this house that was like falling apart, that was full of rodents and bugs. And I was like, just like. I mean, I hate to use the word. But I was, like, offended by it. Like, I was like, why, though?

[Jillian Michaels]

There's an appropriate time to be offended.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Yeah. I mean. Yeah.

[Jillian Michaels]

Which you often point out, from my perspective, for sure, is when it's an inappropriate time.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Exactly.

[Jillian Michaels]

These things should be. These emotions should be used judiciously. And this is an appropriate time to be offended.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Yeah. So I. I was. I was just like, man, like, this guy is, like, running down this, like, picture perfect life that, like, I would give anything to have, especially in, like, my present situation. Like. And I was just. I don't know, it just touched me. And it's like this just weirdest thing. Like, I had, like, half a cigarette left. I. I remember it, like, so vividly. Like, and it almost like it sounds so storybook that, like, it almost sounds, like, illegitimate, but it's like the truth. And I. And I heard this song and I used to only write when I was smoking. So I. Like, I was so pissed off about what I had heard that I was gonna write a song about it. And I opened the cigarette pack and there was half of a cigarette left. And I went out and sat on the front porch and lit the cigarette and started writing. And the first thing I wrote down was Dear rappers. And I started writing this, like, open letter to hip hop criticizing the status quo of the genre and criticizing a lot of the rappers in the genre.

[Tom McDonald (performer)]

Teach me to drink, you teach me to smoke he teach me to think.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Every woman's a hoe I don't want your X bars or your fancy foreign cars Throw your money in my face and try to tell me that it's art no, no, no no no no no, no yeah, just a drug addict.

[Tom McDonald (performer)]

On tv I can't hear another song about abusing medication that I had to take. Just stay alive. There's more important than what you wear and where you live and who you. What you drink and what you spend and what you drive. Rappers full of rappers is the marketing vehicle for the product that the man.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Wants you to buy. There's this really pivotal, like, moment in my life where, like, I'm usually very meticulous, over analytical about what I'm writing. Sometimes I'll write eight lines and I'm like, that's good for today. Like, I'll. I'll come back to this because I thought so hard about how I wanted to phrase those eight lines. But on this particular day, like, I don't remember stopping to think, what rhymes with this? I don't remember pausing to think, where is this going?

[Jillian Michaels]

It was like you channeled it.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

It was like, literally, like, God, like, looked down at me that day and was like, you know what, kid? Like, I'm gonna give you a shot. And it just was like, boom. And it just, like, came out of me into this phone. And by the time, like, that cigarette was done, I had this entire song wrote. And I just sat there on the. On the porch, and I just looked at it, and I was like, what the did I just do? And I ran into the house, and Nova's, like, sitting in the bedroom, and I remember opening her door, and I was like, yo, I just wrote this on. It's gonna change our lives. Like, we need to shoot a music video to this right now. So she's like, you got to record the song. I was like, just set up the shit. I'm gonna record it, like, right now. So, like, while Nova's, like, pulling down this backdrop, we had, like, a paper backdrop, and we had, like, a 20 light from Amazon that she taped, like, a piece of red plastic over. So she sets up our one light and this backdrop, and I record the song on the computer, and we shoot this music video within an hour of, you know, writing the song. And I was like, hey, I. I need to release this now. And she's like, I don't know. I really think this could be, like, a special thing. Like, you know, maybe you should, like, run an ad on Facebook for it or something. And I was like, we don't have no money. Like, like, how the are we gonna run an ad? So I call my younger sister. This is, like, a moment where you really have to, like, swallow some pride to, like, call your baby sister and be like, I need to borrow money. So I tell my sister I need to borrow $200. So she gives me 200 bucks. I call my mom and I say, I just wrote this on. It's going to change our lives. I need to borrow $200. And, like, I've been telling my parents I just wrote the song that's going to change my life for 10 years.

[Jillian Michaels]

I was wondering about that, like, as a mom, like, would I be cool in that moment, or would I be a bitch maybe? Like, I've heard that so many times. Like, you know, you make me think about that.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

But they've always been, like, my number one fan, biggest supporters, both of my parents. Like, like, I've used this analogy a lot, but, like, literally, like, if I told my dad, like, at that point in time, like, I want to make sandcastles for the rest of my life, he'd be like, I'll buy a ticket to Florida and get you a bucket. Like, he was, like, just my biggest supporter. So he tells my mom, like, it's a good lesson. Yeah, actually. Yeah. So my dad tells my mom, like, give him the. Give him the 200 bucks. You know, like, just do it. So get the 200 bucks from my folks. Call my buddy Brandon Hart, who's a. Also a musician from Canada. He gives me 200 bucks. Call these other people, pull it all together, end up with $1,100. The next day, we drop deer wrappers on Facebook. I put this eleven hundred dollars that I'd borrowed from everybody onto this Facebook ad, and the next day, it's got 1.2 million views. And, like, life changes. Yeah.

[Jillian Michaels]

As a businesswoman, if social media ads are, like, the bane of my existence, and we often need to utilize them, whether you're selling a fitness app or a vitamin or. I mean, every single thing now is dtc and it's kind of a hellscape every day. Oh, they change the algorithm. Oh, my God, we gotta turn off this campaign. There's geniuses that are assigned to manage these campaigns.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Yeah.

[Jillian Michaels]

They got how to create the campaign and how to market the fricking campaign and when to who to target. Target for the cow. Oh, you can't target anymore. The computer. Like, it is hell.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

And.

[Jillian Michaels]

And if you'd said, I'm gonna take eleven hundred dollars and. And I'm going to run an ad, I would have been like, oh, honey, this is not gonna work. Yeah, you're gonna lose eleven hundred dollars. Like, now, everything that got us here. Do you. You talk about the moment that you wrote Dear Rappers and that it felt divined, but from the outside, it seems like all of it was 100%.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Yeah.

[Jillian Michaels]

Like, you don't craft a messenger with cotton candy. Anybody who is going to be that voice has to go through hell, I think, or people don't identify.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Yeah, totally. And, like, looking back at it, it's very difficult to know that in the moment. But, like, looking back on, like, addiction and mental breakdown and, like, especially the mental breakdown, always, like, sort of. I thought that was, like, the worst moment of my life, and it was the worst moment of my life, but it was also the best moment of my life. It taught me, like, so much about myself and, like, how resilient I can be when I need to be and, like, how strong I can be when I need to be. And that moment, essentially, is, like, what got me sober. And if I wasn't Sober right now, I'd be dead. So, like, the worst moment of my life ended up turning into, like, the best moment of my life because it birthed everything that came afterward, including deer wrappers and everything else. So, yeah, it was a pretty.

[Jillian Michaels]

I think J.K. rowling says that rock bottom is a fantastic foundation to build the rest of your life.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

On top of 100%.

[Jillian Michaels]

I'm almost sure that was her 100%. And she's got the. You know, I went to a coffee shop, living out of my car, and wrote Harry Potter on a napkin. The idea for. And it's the same. There's another. You know, you talk about how you were writing the kind of music you thought people wanted to hear until the day you wrote what was in your heart. Can you talk a little bit about that? Because I think so much of this, it seems like the universe was almost trying to break you. Like, no, not that. Nope, that's not gonna work. I'm gonna join you.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Yeah.

[Jillian Michaels]

Until we're doing it. There you go. I'm right there with you. I'm double fisting, though, because I got that coffee as well. I find that in my own life in particular, if I'm on the wrong path, I just get my ass kicked until I'm on the right one. I pursued a career in the entertainment industry and just. Oh, my God. To the point that I got blackballed out of that business, much like you did with wrestling. And it forced me back into fitness training, which I hadn't done since I was in my early 20s. Wasted all of this time in the entertainment industry thinking I was going to be, like, a talent agent and a motion picture packaging agent to get myself blackballed out of the industry and forced to have no choice but to get back into being a trainer.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Yeah.

[Jillian Michaels]

And the moment you called your sister is like the moment that I had to put, like, an ice pack on some kid who was an assistant. Well, I was an agent at a talent agency. And I always say, worst day for your ego, best day for your soul.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Absolutely.

[Jillian Michaels]

And it does seem like there is a divine hand, a serendipitous element that has moved you to here. So can you elaborate a bit more on how we went from, like, okay, I should be rapping about cars and girls to race wars and LG Transing kids and, you know, going after Gavin Newsom leading that charge. How do we go from Lamborghinis to California gubernatorial candidates? What in the name of God? This whole time you're going through this, you're following this or what's going on?

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

No, not really. I'm just. It's, you know, I make music for the wrong reasons. I. When I was writing my poetry and I was writing, like, my rock songs and stuff, like, those things, like, came from, like, the heart. They came from, like, the soul. And when I was like, oh, I can't sing, I gotta rap, it was like, what the do I rap about? Because I'm a kid, I don't even really have a story at that point in time to tell. I don't have a story of my own. So I start looking at stories of, like, other rappers of. Right. Eminem and 50 Cent and whoever was cracking at the time. And I start imitating, like, what they're doing in my music, which eventually imitating their songs as my own songs and then imitating my own songs in real life led to the drinking, the partying, and the. And the. And having the breakdown, everything else. So I was, like, just making music that I thought people wanted to hear for the longest time. And then when I sort of had, like, the mental break breakdown, the first song that I wrote, my mom just showed it to me on her phone the other day. She said, look what came up in my Facebook memories. This happened eight years ago today or something.

[Jillian Michaels]

Oh, gosh. Wow.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Forget what the song was called, but, like, it was an immediate recount of, like, everything that I just experienced for, like, the last nine months. It was about mental health and about suicide and about surviving and about grit and recapturing something that you thought was gone forever. So, you know, in the time that I had, like, recovered from this mental breakdown, you know, and then I made this song right prior to making that song, I was like, what do I want to make music about? Because the music that I was making before was an imitation of something else. And imitating that ended up my life up. So do I want to continue making music that other people are gonna imitate and their lives up? Because I know what I just went through for the last nine months is not something there's a lot of mother out there I don't like. And I would have never wished what I went through for those nine months on anybody ever. So I was like, I don't want anybody to experience, like, what I went through. People will, but I don't want them to go through that because of something they heard me singing about in. In. In. In my songs. So I was like, okay, what do I, like, really want to make music about? Like, what do I give a shit about? Like, what's important to me and the things that were important to me were the things that I'd speak about privately with my family and privately with my friends, and the things. The conversations that take place in living rooms, that don't take place on the sidewalk, that don't take place up on stage, that don't take place on podcasts. Like, I wanted to make music about those things. So that was, to me, like mental health, suicide, potentially politics. I just. I didn't know what those things were at the time. I just knew. I just wanted to make music about shit that I really cared about. So I made a couple of the mental health songs. Then Dear Rappers happened, and then essentially I started discovering what was important to me after Dear Rappers. Because what happened was, Dear Rappers came out, and then a bunch of people were like, because I was criticizing hip hop as a genre, and because I was criticizing the status quo of hip hop, people started saying, this guy's a racist. He's this, he's that. Because he's criticizing black rappers and a black genre. And my whole thing was like, I don't feel like I'm being critical of any particular color of rapper. I feel like I'm being critical of the content of rappers. And those rappers come in all colors. Black, white, Asian, Indian, whatever. So I felt like I was being critical of the content. Not the. Not the skin color, the culture, whatever, the. But because it caused, like, such a shitstorm. This is the first time in my life, like, my Facebook fan page went from like, 900 people to 25, 000 people, like, in four days. And, like, I sat on my couch in Crenshaw and every single person that commented on a post that liked a post that followed the page. I personally messaged probably 30,000 people over the course of, like, a month and just said, like, hey, thanks. I saw that you liked my page. Dah dah dah. Like, I didn't know. I didn't know how to handle it. I was just like. All I know is, like, this is the first time any of this shit's happened. Like, how the. Do I stabilize this, like, chaos? So I start talking to people, and because I'm talking to people, I'm tuned in to what the chatter is online. I'm tuned in to the narrative that the Internet is spinning. So I see that people are calling me a racist and that they're very upset that I've. That I've been critical of hip hop.

[Jillian Michaels]

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[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Yeah.

[Jillian Michaels]

And you know, I, that's what's so crazy is that they're the exact opposite. And you talk about, listen, I think black lives matter, but white lives matter too. Oh, my God. It's like no one's saying that they're, you know, what foundational black Americans have. No one saying what foundational black Americans have gone through is not horrible. That's not the point. That's. That's not what you're saying. And so I, I pulled. I want to. Now is my moment to bring my computer forward. I want to. For anybody who's not familiar, we're going to start at the top. And this one's fake. Woke my son personally pulled this one. So you go, I think it's crazy. I'm the one they labeled as controversial and cardi b is the role model for 12 year old girls. You know, as a mom, do you know how I feel about that? I don't think I paid attention. You know, you're like, oh yeah. Like, do you, girl? Like, is modern day feminism sleeping with all these dudes? Like, okay. You know, as a classic liberal, I don't know, you don't really care. Doesn't. You're not paying attention. Like, if that's what you want to do, all of a sudden you become a mom. And I don't know if you've seen Whitney Cummings talk about this at all. She's a comedian and she's like, you. You start paying real close attention to like that and it's like, oh, and hoes and acting like a hoe. And I did this and I ended like, the most disgusting. Like, it'll get. I can't even. I can't even say it. Yeah, it'll get the episode, like the most disgusting. Like, Triple X lyrics wild. And that's all good. Like, those guys are going to sing, you know, for the president as some sort of fundraiser. But Tom McDonald.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Oh, man, that's the problem.

[Jillian Michaels]

That is the problem. What. What do you think's going on there? I mean, obviously neither of us can know, but what, what in the world is going on there where we hold up people who are singing like, Triple X porn lyrics? I mean, and it's like. And they're. They're telling you to vote for president.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Yeah, Well, I think that there's probably a lot of answers to that because like, when I was like, you know, 16, 17 years old, I remember specifically, like, people were like, oh, man, like, let gay people get married. Like, gay people got to get married. And I was like, yeah, yeah, like, let gay people get married, dude. Like, who gives a? Like, who loves who? That's not any my business. Let them get married. Who gives a. And like, that was like a gateway drug.

[Jillian Michaels]

I know.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

And there was all of these small things that were like, hey, man, just like, let these 5,000 people from this war torn country just like, come here and live here because they're dying over there. And you're like, yeah, what the. Yeah, let those guys come over here and live here. And there was all these like little tiny, like, gates that all of a sudden start swinging open. And all of a sudden all of this, all of these other ideologies and all of this other shit that we didn't see behind these small issues flooded in and rushing behind them. And it just caused this like, massive, like, cultural shift. So I think there's like a lot of like extremely complicated and like, nuanced answers to that. But like, at the same time, like, I also feel like, you know, I'm a tinfoil hat guy and like, I don't have any proof, but I just feel like I think they use the mainstream media to control adults with Misinformation and false narratives and.

[Jillian Michaels]

Well, that's true.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Yeah. I feel like, I mean, you could.

[Jillian Michaels]

You could, you could posit a guess as to why and maybe that's tinfoil.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Yeah.

[Jillian Michaels]

But that's true. I just did an episode with Dr. Drew where CNN talked about, you know, what a catastrophe it is.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Yeah.

[Jillian Michaels]

To take away the hepatitis B vaccine from babies. And it's like, actually, yeah, yeah, that's not true. You know that what you're saying is the truth.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

So I feel like they use the news and like that to infiltrate the minds of adults and weaken adults and make adults easier to control and steer and direct them into doing what they want adults to do. Kids don't watch the news. They don't give a, they're not gonna sit down at 6pm and watch some old man with white hair talk about. So they use pop culture. Hollywood is largely evil, like, in my opinion. So like, that's another reason for it is like, how can we up these kids? So they're as dependent on us, on the system as their folks are. So they use shit like whatever it is, Cardi B or Sam Smith and people, a guy dressed as a woman that's standing up on stage at the Grammys or lyrics and songs and narratives and movies and weird subliminal messaging and children's shows and children's books and da da, da, da. Because that's the media that they're consuming. We're consuming the evening news, they're consuming pop culture. So it's all been molested and distorted to weaken people and make people confused and make people think they need help. And then the system swoops in and says, perfect, I'm here to help you.

[Jillian Michaels]

I, I, I don't disagree with you. I don't, I don't really think that's tin hat at all. You know, I had had a debate with Matt Walsh about gay marriage. And listen, he's also, there's also the religious component as well. But they did absolutely utilize the door that gay marriage opened and was like, ah, what do we do now with these organizations that take in all this money and like all these NGOS and whatever we gotta, I, oh, trans kids, that's what we should do. And it's also a farmer.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Oh, for sure.

[Jillian Michaels]

It's like a multi gazillion dollar business. It's this kind of myriad of things. And for me personally, that's when I was like, wait, wait a minute here. Or, you know, men in the Olympics punching women in the face.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Yeah.

[Jillian Michaels]

And you're Going, no, wait, hold off. It's the same as feminism though. Like, all right, you want Title IX so women can have access to sports, and that's awesome. And you get Serena Williams, like all these great athletes and little girl. And then all of a sudden it's like, but hold on. Yeah, true feminism is when a guy who thinks he's a woman punches a woman in the face at the Olympics. Huh. And you're like, no. And I find that so much of this is a U shaped curve of like, how do we kind of find this equilibrium? Like, of course people of all colors should have equal access to everything. But then it's like, and now all white people are racist.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

And.

[Jillian Michaels]

If for some reason just calling that out, it hits you with every pejorative. Like, can you tell me all the things that you've been called?

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

I mean, I think you said we only have like an hour here, right?

[Jillian Michaels]

I have the time and I know.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Yeah, like, I mean, I've been called everything, like from racist, transphobic, homophobic, white supremacist, Nazi, like Zionist, fucking Zionist.

[Jillian Michaels]

That's the new one. By the way, I myself am a genocidal Zionist. I'm 70% Arab and have an Arabic tattoo. But I am a. Yeah, because, yeah, because I can see both sides of the issue. I am taking $7,000 from Israel now. I can't tell you how many millions I've turned down from food and pharma.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Yeah.

[Jillian Michaels]

But I jumped on that $7,000 missile. Like that dude.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Like, that was like, you know, it was like so funny because I did this song with, with Ben Shapiro like years ago at this point, like two.

[Jillian Michaels]

Years ago, I remember it.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

And it started out as like, it was like a joke. Like I was just like on the show, they wanted me on the show. I was there. And then Ben made like an offhand comment like at the very end of the interview, like, oh, if you ever need somebody to drop a verse on a song, like, let me know. And I was, I laughed it off. I was like, haha, sounds good, thanks for having me by. And then I hung up the phone and I sat there and then Nova was like standing in the room and I was like, you think I could get Ben Shapiro on a song? And she's like, I don't know, maybe.

[Jillian Michaels]

Number one, wasn't it?

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Yeah, yeah. So I, I, I hit up his, his manager and I was like, tell Ben that I want him on this song. So I made the song that day, got Ben on it, did the whole thing. And like now Two years removed from that. There's all of these new political scenarios with Israel. Right. Oh, and so people are like, Tom McDonald is a Zionist. He's a puppet from Assad, like, da, da, da. And I'm like, holy. Like, this is wild.

[Jillian Michaels]

I know. So I'm starting to think that's not real. And what I mean by that is it's exceptionally convenient that the right is just self destructing.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

It's bad right now.

[Jillian Michaels]

I. It is. You know, I. I was messaging Benny Johnson last night because I don't know if you saw he got like, pulled into, but there's some. Some gay guy who I've never even heard of, by the way. This guy, Milo Yiannopoulos, who I guess just showed up on Talk, like, I'd never even heard of this guy. Apparently this guy tried to justify something having to do with minors that, you know, I won't mention because it'll be an issue on YouTube. But nevertheless, I'm like, benny, don't bother. Because he's like, I have to sue this guy. I'm like, this is a trick. It's a time suck. It's a waste of money and it's a waste of time. And I can't help but think it's on purpose. I've been in these kinds of litigations. You lose days, months of your life to this. Yeah, like this. Who is this? Who cares? Keep it.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

You kind of just got to tune it out.

[Jillian Michaels]

I have to think, though, like, how do we derail Tom? How do we derail Benny? We took out Charlie. There's a part of me. You want to put on a tin hat? There's definitely a part of me that wonders about that, for sure. You know, I just. And you were telling me, you know, without giving too much away, that you all of a sudden got attacked by a group of lunatics who thought you weren't conservative enough, but the group of lunatics who attacked you aren't conservative all at all. They're lunatics.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Right.

[Jillian Michaels]

You know, and so I have to wonder, like, what's going on with all of this?

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

A lot of it seems like, honestly, it's upsetting. I was talking to somebody about it yesterday on the phone. It was a news anchor that you probably know. And it seems like the conservative side of, like, the spectrum has, like, really become fractured, like in the last.

[Jillian Michaels]

I know.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

You know. Yeah, Four months especially. And it was just. It's like, so unfortunate because, like, I was at the inauguration and, like.

[Jillian Michaels]

Yeah.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

And I went out to the rallies and met Trump and, like, did the whole thing, and it was such a blast. Like, that campaign was, like, literally, like, one of the funnest times of my life. Like, it was so fun, and every. And, you know, Trump's in the McDonald's, and he's driving a garbage truck, and we're all riding around in the streets with American flags hanging out the car. And, like, it was so fun, and everybody was so, so happy.

[Jillian Michaels]

And you got Rogan involved and Theo Vaughn involved, and, like, all of a sudden, you know, you get this big tent, and to me, I'm like, wait a second, hold on. This is where, like, you know, there's black guys, Jewish guys, gay guys, and everybody's getting along because they have one common goal. Common sense.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Yes. Yeah.

[Jillian Michaels]

Like, 80, 20 issues. We're all here to fight for this stuff.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Yeah.

[Jillian Michaels]

And the, you know, the. The Wokesters, on the other hand, are purging people. And, like, you want to talk about being fascistic?

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Yeah.

[Jillian Michaels]

You don't agree with how we think.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

That's another thing I've been called. Fascist.

[Jillian Michaels]

Fascist.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

That's a good one.

[Jillian Michaels]

Yes, of course. I. I wanted to look at a few more of these. These. These lyrics you have.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Sure.

[Jillian Michaels]

Okay. So it's backwards. It's getting exponentially dumb. It's more difficult to get a job than purchase a gun. Eminem used to gay bash and murder his mom, and now he doesn't want fans if they voted for Trump. There's two things there that speak to me in particular if I'm a young guy.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Yeah.

[Jillian Michaels]

Number one, you're struggling financially and you can't get ahead. System feels rigged. I think that's driving people to extremes.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

On both sides, 100%.

[Jillian Michaels]

What I love so much about you is that you lean into your art and your truth, and now you've got a really nice car sitting outside. That's not what you rap about, but, you know, the universe has definitely conspired on your behalf. But what do you say to these young kids that are living in that apartment in Crenshaw? My brother's living in an apartment in Crenshaw. He's much younger, 35, with his, hopefully, future wife. And he's going through everything you're going through.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Yeah, I get sort of, like, asked similar things, like, quite often, because a large part of my fan base is, like, also, like, struggling and, like, because I feel like, even though, you know, I'm not a political scientist, I'm not, like, a pundit. I'm not, like, an expert at, like, any of this. Just Like a regular dude. So when I'm giving commentary on a lot of these issues, it's coming from just, like, a regular person's perspective, which is why I think it speaks to, like, a lot of regular people.

[Jillian Michaels]

Yeah.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

And a lot of regular people are going through a lot of regular life problems, like, I went through, or, like, what your younger brother's going through. And I wish that there was, like, the perfect equation or formula or perfect words to just give to somebody and say, like, hey, this is how you get out of it. But, like, I still look back at me getting out of it, and I'm like, how the. Did I do that?

[Jillian Michaels]

Yeah.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

So, I mean, I think, like, the best advice that I can give people, I mean, is a. Like, I am a former alcoholic, a former drug addict, a former. I mean, I still have days where my mental health is questionable at best.

[Jillian Michaels]

Sure.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

So, like, you're. You're looking at somebody that's, like, struggled with addiction and struggled with mental health crisis and struggled with poverty and made a ton of really poor decisions along the way and made a lot of mistakes. And. And I. And I did it, like. And it was about resilience.

[Jillian Michaels]

So, like, you also did it outside the system, though.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

A big. A big part of it.

[Jillian Michaels]

You're independent.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

A big part of it is creating.

[Jillian Michaels]

Like, talk about how successful you are. Can you please. For people who don't know, don't you have, like, 50 number ones on billboard or something? In the 60. 60.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Yeah.

[Jillian Michaels]

Okay. So, yeah. You've been exceptionally successful outside of the system.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Right.

[Jillian Michaels]

Which makes you an even bigger threat because no one can control you.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Correct.

[Jillian Michaels]

I have to wonder if that's not part of it, is that you weren't sitting there waiting for a lifeboat.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Well, that's. That. That was, like, the. That was a big piece of. It was. I recognized, like, super early. Like, I'm never gonna be, like, accepted, like, into that. That club. Like, I'm not gonna be accepted into a lot of gatekeepers and shit in. In the entertainment industry. And I was like, they're never. With the music that I want to make and the things that I want to talk about. A lot of the things I want to talk about is talking shit about these people that are in that club and that are part of Hollywood like that. So I knew that I was, like, never going to be able to be a part of that. So, you know, nor do I. I want. I don't hang out with, like, celebrities. I don't have famous friends. Like, I just see you with your.

[Jillian Michaels]

Dog and your girlfriend a lot?

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Yeah, yeah, that's it. That's literally it. I have four dogs, I have a wonderful girlfriend, and I have a couple friends. Like my childhood best friend. This was just staying at my house with me for two weeks. I've known him since I was like 13. So, like, those are my friends. My family is like my, my folks, my sister, my brother in law. Like, that's my circle. I don't, I don't associate with any weird Hollywood bullshit. So, like, a big part of it was like, okay, if I want to be successful in this field, I'm not allowed over here, and I don't want to be over here. So how do I create my own ecosystem over here? So that was a big part of. It was like this, being an entrepreneur. Like, okay, cool, we got a million views on this song. Like, how do we not squander that? And then Nova's like, hey, like, you got to get your on Spotify. And I'm like, what the Spotify? And she's like, it's like where everybody listens to music. You got to do it. And I'm like, no, no, that. And she's like, no, you got to do it. So Nova goes ahead, creates an online store that sells Tom McDonald T shirts, and gets my music uploaded onto all these streaming platforms. And. And I'm thinking, she's wasting her time. I'm. I'm making the next song, I'm getting ready to feed this new fan base, and then all of a sudden, a check comes in the mail for $11,000. And I'm like, what the. Like, and it's from Spotify, and I'd never seen $11,000. And then next month it's 20 grand, and the next month it's 40, and then it's 60, and then it's 80, and it's just like, okay, so let's buy all the lights we need to buy. Let's get all the fucking cameras we need to get. Let's get professional quality recording software, and let's create our own ecosystem where we're in charge of homeostasis, where we're in charge of everything. And there's no sponsor that's gonna drop us. There's no endorsement deal that's gonna fall out. There's nobody that's gonna tell us, no, you can't release that. Let's just do it our way. Let's look at what these guys have done and let's scale it to a manageable place and let's just do it Ourselves. So that's what we did. So I guess a big part of it for other people, whether you're a construction worker, a painter, an actor, a lawyer, doctor, teacher, whatever the f. Like a big part of it is anything that the system can offer you, you can do it yourself. It's a longer road, it's a harder road. And there's always going to be people that are a better rapper than you, better teacher than you, better producer than you, better carpenter than you. But like, God given, talent and skill will only take you so far if you have. If you are not afraid of hard work, you can. You may not be better at your task than these other people, but you can work harder than them. And like, when they're sleeping, you gotta be working. When they're eating, you gotta be working. When they're playing, you gotta be working. When they're working, you gotta be working twice as hard. And if you can do that, if you can find the resolve to just outwork everybody and continually reinvest in yourself, get the cameras, buy your own tools, rent a garage, set up a workbench, if you. If you can figure out a way to. To do things on your own with as little involvement from other people as possible, I mean, you can be successful. You. You can. We all have access to the Internet.

[Jillian Michaels]

See yourself starting a label.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Eventually. One day. At this point in my life, one of the major problems that I have with record labels, besides them just being retarded. Sorry, but beyond that is that, like, when. Sorry, but we're with you.

[Jillian Michaels]

We're with you.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Yeah. I just literally the words are failing to find me. And like, that's the one that's best. Most descriptive I understand. Yeah, accurate. I understand. But like, one of the. My big problems with them is like, you know, I mean, Bad Bunny's in the news right now. Who else in the. Taylor Swift. A lot. There's a lot of big artists. Anyways, these big artists, they're signed to Universal. Okay. And you may know like a dozen artists from Universal maybe, But Universal has 40,000 artists on their label.

[Jillian Michaels]

Do they really?

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Well, 10,000, 20,000.

[Jillian Michaels]

It's crazy.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

A lot. A lot. I did not know that more than the dozen that, you know. But the thing is, is, like, there's only so much manpower and so many resources and so many people that give a. And like, you know, in these big labels, like, one person believing in you doesn't mean all that guy has to go convince the guy above him why he should believe in him. And that guy's Got to run upstairs and tell that guy why he needs to believe in him. And you have to have a perfect chain of the right people all saying, this is the guy, this is the guy, this is the guy. Boom. Make it happen. So then all the resources, manpower and energy get spent on Bad Bunny, whoever it is, while all these other guys are just sort of floating around like shelved, and they're not doing anything with their music. So like at this point in my life, it's like if I opened a label and signed five people, I'm working 18 hours a day on my own shit.

[Jillian Michaels]

I know what you mean.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

So it's just like me. My entire label is me, my girlfriend, my sister and my brother in law.

[Jillian Michaels]

It's four of us building. You're still building your own brand.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

And I don't think that that building process, like, ever really stops. Until I stop. Until one day I'm like, you know what? I'm good. Yeah, I'm done now. So I feel like if I signed people right now, they'd be like, oh my God, this is great. I just signed to Tom McDonald's record label. He's this big independent artist. He can help me do this independently. I'm an to be the next him, whatever. And then they're going to be sitting around waiting for a phone call for three weeks and I'm going to be like, sorry, I'm working, I'm working.

[Jillian Michaels]

Yep, I get it.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

And I become the guy that I hate over here to these guys.

[Jillian Michaels]

I understand.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

So if it feels like a little selfish, but like, I mean, I've had like, I, I give free advice. You'd ask anybody that. I, I mean, Jelly Roll used to call me and be like, hey, this is what's going on. What can I do with this? And I'd tell him, this is what you need to do. And I saw him implement it in real time. Not that I had anything to do. No, I know what you mean with what Jelly's doing, but. But not just him, but like anybody around me in my orbit, Brandon, anyone that's come to me and said, I have an issue or I'm trying to reach this next spot and I'm not sure how to get there. I've always given people all of the advice and I've written, made calendars for people. This is how you should release your music.

[Jillian Michaels]

You don't owe anyone anything. I just wondered if there wasn't a day, you know, where the legacy is creating something different. But I know exactly what you mean. You're you're in it. I get it. I want to do a few more, if you'll permit me here. Yeah, we just went through this, so I just want a Thanksgiving day with food and my family without being accused of celebrating native casualties.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Happy Thanksgiving.

[Jillian Michaels]

I just went through this on Piers Morgan. And, you know, it's funny, the reason I read these lyrics is because I got a 13 year old boy and I'm a 50 year old mom, and yet the two of us find something in the music. I was just on Piers Morgan talking about Thanksgiving, and the. You know who made that a national holiday was Lincoln. You know, the guy that wanted to free the slaves. And the whole idea was, how do we bring people together? The whole idea behind Thanksgiving was that the Native Americans and the Pilgrims came together. How about more of that? But instead it's like, no, all racist. You took everything. And I think so many people want that tomorrow. So many people are like, for the love of God, can we just have turkey and play cards, you know, like with family and maybe go see a movie later and. But everything has become so political and you give people these gifts of, like, it's okay to want to feel that way, and you get attacked for it. We got so divided. It's black and white and political. Republicans are bigots and libtards. If you're liberal, like, we don't even see each other as human anymore. Yeah, but you're not calling out one side. You'll even say, like, hey, you know, I'm. I'm not tribal. I'm going to call out what I'm going to call out. Just so happens, kind of like me, you're seeing a little bit more crazy on the right, but you just alluded to crazy on the left. That's upsetting you. And that's, you know, a separate, separate podcast, I'm sure, but there's this one I love. There's riots in our streets, and it's just getting worse. Y' all are screaming, defund the police. You're genius. For sure. They're underfunded already. They're way too busy to work. Order food and call the cops. See what reaches you first. Who was I talking to? I was just talking to Tommy Lahren about this. She's like, you know, one of the number one things women want. Yes, I understand that, the abortion issue and all of that, but they want safety. It's one of the top issues. And they constantly. She was saying women on the left constantly attack conservative women. Like, why do you vote against your own you know, your own benefits. She's like, is this not top of your list?

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Yeah.

[Jillian Michaels]

You're defunding the police, you're letting out repeat offenders and you're seeing it. You're seeing it in real time. You're seeing a girl that was killed on a bus by a guy that was arrested 14 times and was mentally ill. Yeah. Why are you the only one saying this, though, at least in music? Why you. You said you get calls from people who are like, hey, man. Yeah, like, love it. I'm with you. But never have the balls to come out and stand alongside you and say the same thing.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Yeah, well, one, I think that there, I think that there is other people saying it, just not on a bigger stage as I.

[Jillian Michaels]

Okay.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

As I've got. But speaking of sort of like my level and other artists that are at this place that I'm at, why aren't they speaking about it? A lot of them are signed. A lot of artists that are like, at my size or influence or whatever, exceptionally successful.

[Jillian Michaels]

You would think that would be permission. Permission. You know, like, look at, look at what I did. Well, look, look, I, I am able.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

The. The only people that I can give permission to speak for themselves by watching me. The only, the only people that are observing me that can actually take that permission and then speak are people that aren't beholden to somebody. And like, most of the people that are at my level are signed to record labels and it doesn't matter if I get. Give permission to them through what I'm doing or not. They're not allowed.

[Jillian Michaels]

They're not allowed.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Their. Their creativity is sort of, you know, stifled by.

[Jillian Michaels]

How about this one? America's fallen woke became a disease. They made trillions off of mandatory lethal vaccines. Why not allowed? We already, I mean, we already know now that there's some, Some issues. I mean, there's. There's talk about adding a black box warning to the COVID shot for kids. Like, I have to wonder, you know, some of these, some of these labels, like, are they owned?

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

I mean, I think I, I think they're all. I, I, like I said, like, when, when they use news to control adults and they use pop culture to control kids, there has to be some sort of talking between news and pop culture. There has to be some sort of connection there.

[Jillian Michaels]

Right?

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

They can't just, you know, drive kids in one direction and drive adults in the other direction. They. Everybody has to be going the same way. So there's some sort of co. Coordination going on here and like a big Reason why you can't talk about this is because of social media. Social media is in bed with.

[Jillian Michaels]

Oh yeah.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

With the record labels and, and the mainstream media. And the mainstream media is in bed with the record labels and the record labels and everybody's in bed with whoever's above them. I don't want to go too deep into that.

[Jillian Michaels]

I get it. I, I, I agree with you.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

It's a concerted effort for sure.

[Jillian Michaels]

Right. Do you ever see yourself being able to do a concert?

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Oh, yeah, I don't give a really.

[Jillian Michaels]

I, I worry about it.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

So my girlfriend.

[Jillian Michaels]

Yeah. My son's like, ask him if he's going to. When, you know, when I'm like, well, honey, they'll, they'll try to kill him.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Yeah. Unfortunate.

[Jillian Michaels]

You think you'll do one?

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Yeah.

[Jillian Michaels]

Tom, Indoors, high security.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Does matter.

[Jillian Michaels]

It does matter though. It matters. And I, you know, I want to stress this actually, because they like, we.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Cannot let these people scare us. It's true.

[Jillian Michaels]

It's not true, though. There are certain, you know, all, they have. All the same to me, you know, and the reality is when they start shooting at your house.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

I just saw what just happened the other day with Tim.

[Jillian Michaels]

Exactly. Yeah, exactly what just happened with Tim. And you know, the wife is inside, the kids are inside. Like the, and the reality is, you know, Benny's like, I won't be stopped. I'm like, oh, you're, they'll stop you though. They will. You will be stopped. If somebody wants to stop you, sure, they'll stop you. Are there. Not like Charlie. Like, we could have been inside. We could have been inside, you know, his.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Would that have stopped it?

[Jillian Michaels]

Yes. His own security guy knew that, that, that freaking building was a problem. He knew it and he said, that's a problem. Do you guys have it? He did. On Sean Ryan, Charlie's own security guy knew that building was a problem.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Yeah.

[Jillian Michaels]

And they said we got it and they didn't have it.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

We've also seen political violence take place indoors. Like it's if, if somebody wants it bad. Sure. I'm not saying that we're not gonna vet it aggressively, very aggressively. Of course, indoors it has to heavy security.

[Jillian Michaels]

I would be reluctant to let my son go because I'd be worried.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Sure. But there, like, there comes a point where we can only do so much and like what, what the am I gonna do? Walk around in a plexiglass box, bulletproof box, for the rest of my life? Put machine gun turrets on my fucking.

[Jillian Michaels]

Take some of those precautions?

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Well, I have Taken precautions. Not as extreme as I'm putting machine gun turrets on my house or walking around in a plexiglass box. I showed up here today with no security. I drove myself here.

[Jillian Michaels]

Like, I have proof windows on the car. No, I think you should.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Yeah, I probably should. But I have to be able to, like, live my life as well.

[Jillian Michaels]

A modicum of, you know, putting some bulletproof windows on the car.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Yeah. I mean, it's. Trust me, the house is taken care of. Like, things are locked down. I'm just saying that, like, I'm not going to, like, write off ever doing a concert again.

[Jillian Michaels]

I understand. I just want to hear you. I just want to hear you.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

And, like, the way that I have it figured right now is in the present climate, I can't just jump on a tour bus with my face painted on the side and drive down the highway and do 50 shows across America. That's just out of the question right now. That's not a thing. So, like, the way that I have it figured, the best way that I could, that I've looked at it and thought about it and spoke with about it with my girlfriend, because she is. Obviously there's a reason that there's a.

[Jillian Michaels]

Yin and a yang with women and men. You guys all say the same. I'm not gonna live in fear. I'm like, how about a little. Maybe just a little, you know, like, there's a. There's a reason that these two things. Let me tell you, I don't know how I didn't fall into this kind of natural balance of things. I just didn't. But I can surely appreciate it, you know, you guys need a little bit of that.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Sure. But fear is like a very, like, strong vibration. And you. I mean, you let a little bit of it in. It's like the floodgates that we talked about earlier. Sure, yeah. Gay marriage. Come on. All of a sudden, pedophiles have their own flag.

[Jillian Michaels]

That's not right. Obviously.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

That's where people. I'm just saying if you. If you open that gate and you let fear in, it multiplies and it grows, and there's a fucking flood that occurs after it. So the way that I got it figured is instead of. Instead of instead. Instead of driving down the highway in a bus with my face painted on the side and performing at random venues that I have no control over, I don't know who owns the venue. I don't know who their security is. I don't know any. And I've had weird things happen at shows before. Way like years ago, before the climate was what it is now.

[Jillian Michaels]

Yeah.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

So the best way that I haven't figured is we do like six to eight festivals and we do two on the west coast, we do two in the middle of the country, we do two on the east coast, we do two in the south. We control the venue, we control the security, we control like, you know, where they're at, when they're at, who comes in. We control everything.

[Jillian Michaels]

But that's.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

And instead of driving to.

[Jillian Michaels]

Sounds good.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Yeah. Instead of driving to other people's venues, you come to our venue, you come to us.

[Jillian Michaels]

Yeah.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

That is the most controlled environment that.

[Jillian Michaels]

I just want to know you're thinking about it and who you are. Of course that's, you know, because I just think I see these voices, I see these young men and you know, it's so interesting because honest to God, like, who would know, like the face tattoos and whatever. And here you are like, you love your girlfriend, you worry about your dog, you rescue dogs, you know, you probably, and I say this with love, one of the most sensitive souls. I mean I've listened to a lot of your music. To write this kind of music and to feel as deeply as you do and to care as deeply as you care. It says a lot about who you are. And there's a reason you're resonating. But, but, but a voice like that, for obvious reasons does need to be protected just to make sure you're. No, for sure you're thinking of that.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

And, and, and every man that's ever confronted with that question, like, aren't you scared of like potentially might what happened? What could potentially happen to you? Like just like as a man you're like immediately like deny that. Like, no, I'm not afraid. I'll do what the I want. I'll do a show in the middle of the street right now if I want to. And like that has to be the, that has to be the attitude. That's what, that's okay, but then let the wife. Exactly.

[Jillian Michaels]

That's what I'm.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

That'S where I'm going. That attitude is the reason why I was able to create the music that I've created and continue to create. And it's important to have other people around you, like my girlfriend, like my sister, like my mom, like my dad, like my brother in law. That can help you navigate when you're so headstrong. It. I'm not afraid. They're not going to scare me. I'm going to do what The I want. You need somebody. You need the people that love you to be around you and say, hey, I get it. I know you want to do what you want to do, but maybe we think about doing it this way instead.

[Jillian Michaels]

All right?

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

And that's important.

[Jillian Michaels]

Do you mind if one of your biggest fans asks you just a couple of questions?

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Let's go.

[Jillian Michaels]

All right, you, you had the pleasure, of course, of meeting before we started the interview, but for everybody watching, this is my son, Phoenix. And Phoenix, as I mentioned, is one of your biggest fans. Cool. And Phoenix skipped school today. Tom. I, I have interviewed everyone. Can I just say, I, I, I, I, I have interviewed at least. I have interviewed athletes, I've interviewed actors, I've interviewed politicians, I've interviewed friggin. Never once have we skipped school.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

So I've skipped school for way worse reasons than this.

[Jillian Michaels]

So we had a. We had a raging case of diarrhea last night and we skipped school. So I promised three questions. There were quite a few. I integrated them into my interview. All right, Are you ready? Okay. Okay. How should I start? Just ask.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

We're already started.

[Jillian Michaels]

Yeah, you have started. Okay. What's your favorite song you wrote and why?

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

I have three favorite songs, all for different reasons. So dear rappers, that was the event horizon where everything good in my life occurred because of that song, essentially. So dear rappers, for sure, I did a song called Ghost for my girlfriend nova. I've seen 100 grand in cash I've took the trip to hell and back I've been around Never saw nothing like you and I've seen lights up in the sky and I've seen ghosts alone at night I seen some things but they were nothing like Till I walk through all Till I walk through all I want to be with you and that was like my first pop song that I'd ever made. And I'd sort of been, you know, outcasted and blackballed from hip hop because of many of the songs that you've heard. And I wanted to just try something new and do something different and, and do something that I thought would be more difficult than rap and that was sort of penetrate the pop world because the pop world is notorious for being difficult to make a name for yourself or have a big song or whatever. So I wrote the song for Nova, Ghost. And that went number one on Billboard in pop, which is really cool. And it went on the radio. It was in high rotation for like two weeks. And then somebody called the radio station and said, do you know who the. This Tom McDonald guy? Is and then showed them my Instagram, and they took it off the radio.

[Jillian Michaels]

Oh, my God.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Which is fine, because, I mean, I have no aspirations in being a pop star. I just thought would be funny. I felt like we had infiltrated. We got into a room where we weren't supposed to be in, and it took them two weeks to figure out we weren't supposed to be in that room. And that was enough for me. That was really fun. So dear rappers and Ghost. And then. You missed which was your favorite. Yeah. Which was the song that I wrote after the attempted assassination on Donald Trump. Because I had just never. I mean, I'm sure you haven't either. Like, I had never experienced anything like that before in my life. I was sitting in the studio, and my girlfriend rushed into the room, and she had her phone to her head, and she was talking to my sister, and she said, they just shot Trump. And I stood up out of my chair, and I was like, is he dead? And she's like, I don't know. So I went on online and saw the video, and like we discussed earlier, it was such, like, a fun time for everybody and such a fun campaign, and everybody was just rallying together, and it was just this really unifying, awesome time. And then to have it all come, almost, no pun intended, to a dead stop was, like, infuriating to me.

[Tom McDonald (performer)]

Burning the country down with their progressiveness. It started with changing what gender is, then graduated to your racist. If you think that your life matters and your skin don't have melanin. They don't want peace. They want skeletons. They want men to pretend that they're feminine. They don't want an election. They got so offended by freedom that they just. By killing the president. I used to think that the woke were misguided, but now I can see that they're evil. Twitter is angry that Trump isn't dead. You know who got shot? Innocent people. Thought y' all were tolerant, thought we were equals. I thought you valued how everyone feels. Then why are y' all celebrating an attempted assassination like you're part of antifa. Thank God the left can't aim. Thank God the right don't riot. Welcome to the home of the brave. Freedom and afraid of violence. You wish you was dying, you miss.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

So I wrote the song literally after moments after being giving that information, shot the video that night, and then dropped it the next day. And then was fortunate enough to meet Trump in Coachella and give him a number one billboard plaque for the song. And he signed my billboard plaque, and it's hanging in the house. And it was really just like, I'd made a lot of political songs over the course of my career, but I'd never really write about, like, current events. The. The only two real current events that I've written about were the attempted Trump assassination and the Charlie Kirk assassination. And typically, I'm not really into writing about current events in an immediate fashion like that. I usually, like, let things breathe and sit back and listen to the varying narratives that come in and see kind of where I fall. But I feel like there's certain moments in life that are, like, so poignant and important and historical, like, those moments are going to go down in history. And I don't always know what to say when something terrible happens in my life with my girlfriend or my dog or my parents or myself. I don't always know how to sit down and have a conversation about those things, but I usually am able to decipher how I'm feeling enough to write a song about it. And I saw everybody online talking about Trump, and I saw everybody online talking about Charlie when those things happened. And I wanted to go online and talk about those things, but I could not figure out, for the life of me how the. To say how I was, what I was feeling. I just could not find the words. And in those moments, I felt like I need to do the only thing that I know how to do, and that's write a song. So the Charlie song was very important as well. But the Trump song you missed was the first time that I'd ever current event just happened. Wrote the song, released the video the next day, and because it was the first time that happened, I'd say that that was my third favorite. So I got three. They're all important for different reasons.

[Jillian Michaels]

Thank you.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Yeah.

[Jillian Michaels]

And then what's your just favorite song of all time? Oh, jeez.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

I had no idea. Yeah, I didn't know your mom was gonna be the easy interview. Favorite song of all time. Maybe going to california by led zeppelin. Why? There's a couple lines in that song that just really, really spoke to me, and that was, oh, man, I'm gonna cry if I have to say them out loud because they. Because they mean so much to me. But Robert Plant wrote a line that said, I'm standing on a hill in my mountain of dreams. I can't even do it. I can't even do it. I'm standing on a hill in my mountain of dreams, telling myself it's not as hard as it seems. And then that other line in that song that really spoke to me was. It sounds so dumb because, like, I don't think they feel as profound to most people, but it's. Took my chances on a big jet plane. Never let them tell you that they're all the same.

[Jillian Michaels]

I don't think it sounds dumb at all.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

It's just because it. Like, when I moved to America, like, my dad took me to the airport and gave me, like, my grandfather's wallet, and there was, like, $700 in the wallet, and he said, the American dream's still alive and well. He just got to work for it. And he said, you got one job in America. Live up to your potential. And for whatever reason, man, those. Those lines in that song just remind me of the journey that it took to get here. I'm just so grateful for being able to be here with you and your mom and do cool stuff like this and take care of my family, and it's just been such a blessing. So for those. Those two lines, that's. That's my favorite song.

[Jillian Michaels]

Last question.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Yeah.

[Jillian Michaels]

What's your favorite tattoo you have?

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Oh, definitely the one on my stomach. It's like the. Your mom. I talked about it earlier. It's like this smoke and fire, and there's, like, this skeleton, and he's, like, reaching up out of the. Out of the fire, and it says, if you don't know where the fire started, you will surely burn in it. And it was just like. That was, like, me, like, reaching out out of this chaos and fire and tumultuous life that I'd accidentally built for myself and just, like, grasping it, like, something, like, trying to get out, and lo and behold, managed to do it. So that's probably. That's the one. What's your favorite tattoo?

[Jillian Michaels]

Don't have any.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

You're gonna have to start working on it, dude. Sorry, Mom.

[Jillian Michaels]

I have a couple. I have a couple. All right, now, this is the part where you thank Tom for his time. Thank you. And you ask him where everybody can find his music and how they can support him and his message. Where can everybody find your music and support you?

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

So all my music is thanks to Nova in 2017. All my music is on DSP, Spotify, Apple Music, all that stuff. I shouldn't say all my music.

[Jillian Michaels]

All my new albums are. We. I just purchased. It's. It's gonna win. It's going in your stocking little stick in this little envelope.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Yeah. Oh, you got the USB stick.

[Jillian Michaels]

Far out.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Far out. I should have brought you guys some stuff.

[Jillian Michaels]

No, honey, I, I, we buy it just under a different. We have an alias at an address.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Gotcha. Gotcha. Me too. But shit, I wish I would have known. I wish I would have known you were here. I would have brought you some stuff.

[Jillian Michaels]

I wouldn't have even. I wouldn't have even told you we bought it. You were out of this one mug with the gun hanger.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Okay. I have one of those mugs. It's my personal mug that's at my house. I'll come by here, I'll drop off.

[Jillian Michaels]

You do not absolutely do that.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Okay.

[Jillian Michaels]

Where can we support you?

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Okay, tell everybody. Hangovergang.com. that's where. Like, like I said, it's totally independent. I'm sort of outside of the music industry, so you can find my singles that have associated music videos on DSPs, but, like, my albums are like 30 songs long and those songs are only available on CD or USB stick, and the only place on earth those are available is hangovergang.com.

[Jillian Michaels]

Thank you.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

You're very welcome. You crushed it.

[Jillian Michaels]

Anything. You did great.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Your mom didn't even make me cry. You made me cry.

[Jillian Michaels]

I was gonna say. Anything you wanna say to Tom about how much his music means to you? A lot, for sure.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Thanks, man. I'm glad.

[Jillian Michaels]

Thank you, babe. You're really just so special. Thank you so much.

[Tom McDonald (interviewee)]

Thank you.

[Jillian Michaels]

Thank you so much for watching. If you enjoyed the podcast, please, like, comment, subscribe and share. And make sure to let me know what guests you wanna see on in the future.