Happy Hour: Mocktails & Murder with Trey Gowdy

Summary

Podcast Summary

Podcast: Kennedy Saves the World
Episode: Happy Hour: Mocktails & Murder with Trey Gowdy
Date: August 29, 2025
Host: Kennedy
Guest: Trey Gowdy (FOX News host, former federal prosecutor and congressman)

---

Overview

In this lively and introspective "Happy Hour" episode, Kennedy shares a non-alcoholic strawberry mint lemonade with special guest Trey Gowdy to celebrate his debut fiction novel, The Color of Death. Their conversation traverses Gowdy’s transition from courtroom to Congress to author, the realities of prosecutorial life, famed murder cases, and the human cost of a career in criminal justice. With humor and candor, they discuss topics ranging from the Alex Murdaugh trial to the importance of authenticity in Congress.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Mocktail Hour & First Foray Into Fiction (00:00–02:36)

• The Setup: Kennedy and Trey enjoy a strawberry mint lemonade, joking about the need for alcohol when conversing with a federal prosecutor.
• On Writing Fiction: Trey reveals The Color of Death was subconsciously in progress for a decade, but he never acted until Suzanne Scott encouraged him.
  • Notable quote:
    “Never had the guts to put pen to paper until Suzanne Scott said, you should try.” —Trey Gowdy [01:46]
• Collaboration with Christopher Grayson: Gowdy credits his co-author for helping convert courtroom experience into fiction, and hints more stories are brewing.

Law, Lawmen, and the Bonds of Tragedy (02:36–06:17)

• Cops and Prosecutors: Gowdy describes their relationship as collaborative yet independent, highlighting camaraderie forged from mutual exposure to traumatizing scenes.
  • Notable story:
    “I drove to a law school in Charleston and got on my hands and knees and begged the dean to let [a homicide detective] into law school…” —Trey Gowdy [03:47]
• Lasting Impact: He recounts detectives gifting him a tailored suit—a symbol of their rare, enduring bond.

On Alex Murdaugh, Motives, and True Crime (04:54–08:14)

• Prosecutorial Instincts: Upon hearing of the Murdaugh case, Gowdy sensed guilt, citing past acquaintance with the family and extensive experience with familial murders.
  • Quote:
    “I never doubted that he did it.” —Trey Gowdy [05:34]
• Home is (Statistically) Where the Danger Is: Gowdy advises vigilance, noting most violent crimes involve someone known to the victim.
  • Memorable insight:
    “Statistically, you’re more in danger once you get home than you are walking through a parking lot at Walmart.” —Trey Gowdy [05:54]

The Toll of a Prosecutor’s Life—Personal Stories (06:17–08:14)

• Emotional Residue: Gowdy confides that prosecutorial work “ruins your soul,” influencing his own daughter's sleeping habits through childhood, though she now serves as a public defender.
  • Quote:
    “Some people, it makes them go closer to their faith. Some people, it makes them just say, God, how can you possibly let this happen?” —Trey Gowdy [07:28]
• Cases That Haunt: The Susan Smith case is cited as one that remains with him, capturing the emotional cost of seeing the worst in humanity.

Life After Courtrooms & Congress: Addiction and Disillusionment (08:49–11:49)

• Addiction to Justice: Gowdy admits the prosecutorial adrenaline never goes away, warning young attorneys of its grip.
  • Quote:
    “When it gets in your blood, you will not get it out.” —Trey Gowdy [08:59]
• Family Intervention: His wife and mother implored him to leave prosecution for his own well-being, which led—almost reluctantly—to Congress.
• Congressional Disenchantment: Gowdy found legislative life unsatisfying, missing the tangible outcomes of courtroom victories.
  • Quote:
    “There’s no indictment, there’s no arrest warrant, there’s no punishment. It’s just, can you survive being humiliated for five minutes?” —Trey Gowdy [10:52]
• Public Frustration: He explains public misunderstanding about Congress’s inability to “put anybody in prison.”

Congressional Authenticity & The Justin Amash Discussion (11:49–15:39)

• Advice to Justin Amash: Kennedy and Gowdy debate whether Congress is the best platform for authentic voices, praising Amash’s unwavering principles despite party friction.
  • Quotes:
    “I used to tell him, we need to hear your voice. It doesn’t mean we need to listen to it, but we need to hear it…” —Trey Gowdy [12:32]
    “He is a Ron Paul libertarian. Maybe even more than Rand Paul is...” —Trey Gowdy [13:32]
• Authenticity in Politics: Gowdy stresses the rarity and necessity of sincerity in government, wondering if there are better platforms than Congress for independent minds.

Closing Praise & Encouragement (15:05–15:41)

• Endorsements: Kennedy enthusiastically touts Gowdy’s book, calling it a great gift and lauding his post-Congressional career.
  • Fun moment:
    “Cheers to you and all of your success.” —Kennedy [15:36]

---

Notable Quotes & Moments

• “Never had the guts to put pen to paper until Suzanne Scott said, you should try.” —Trey Gowdy [01:46]
• “I never doubted that he did it.” —Trey Gowdy, on Alex Murdaugh [05:34]
• “Statistically, you’re more in danger once you get home than... in the parking lot at Walmart.” —Trey Gowdy [05:54]
• “When it gets in your blood, you will not get it out.” —Trey Gowdy [08:59]
• “There’s no indictment, there’s no arrest warrant, there’s no punishment. It’s just, can you survive being humiliated for five minutes?” —Trey Gowdy [10:52]
• “I used to tell him, we need to hear your voice. It doesn’t mean we need to listen to it, but we need to hear it...” —Trey Gowdy, on Justin Amash [12:32]
• “He is a Ron Paul libertarian. Maybe even more than Rand Paul is...” —Trey Gowdy [13:32]

---

Key Timestamps

• 00:00–01:53: Mocktail intro, writing origins of The Color of Death
• 02:11–03:34: Collaborating with Christopher Grayson, criminal justice realism
• 03:34–04:54: Deep dive on cop-prosecutor dynamics, moving personal stories
• 05:08–06:39: Analysis of Murdaugh case, danger from within
• 06:39–08:14: How criminal justice careers affect families and faith
• 08:59–10:16: The addictive nature of prosecutorial work, decision to leave for Congress
• 10:16–11:49: Disillusionment with Congress, frustration with limits of legislative power
• 11:49–15:39: Authenticity in politics, discussion about Justin Amash’s career and influence

---

Tone & Style

The episode blends Kennedy’s trademark wit with Gowdy’s frank, sometimes poignant storytelling. The conversation is equal parts reflective, insightful, and conversational, offering listeners an unusual glimpse into both the psychological cost of criminal prosecution and the messy, often unfulfilling realities of legislative life.

---

Summary Takeaway

This episode delivers a behind-the-scenes look at the lives and careers of those who navigate the dark corners of justice and government. With vivid anecdotes and sharp honesty, Trey Gowdy and Kennedy discuss what it really means to fight for justice, how it shapes a person, and what happens when you try to write—in fiction or in Congress—a different kind of ending.

Transcript

[A]

Foreign hello and welcome to this episode of Kennedy Saves the World. It's happy hour. It is a non alcoholic cocktail that is strawberry mint lemonade in honor of South Carolina's proudest son. Trey Gowdy is here. FOX News host, former federal prosecutor for former member of Congress. He's very happily out of Congress. And now at fox. Cheers to you.

[B]

Cheers to you. And if you're gonna talk to me, you may wish there were alcohol in that thing.

[A]

Well, that's really good.

[B]

That is delicious.

[A]

Yeah. So that's strawberry mint lemonade with fresh muddled mint and lemon juice and strawberries to boot.

[B]

It is fantastic. Whoever did it, it is fantastic.

[A]

That's me, baby.

[B]

Okay, well, then you are fantastic. That is really good.

[A]

So if anyone wants to add something to this, I would say gin. A delightful spirit. But not for Trey Gowdy because he needs to keep his wits about him for the tv. And now for books. This is your first work of fiction, correct?

[B]

Yes, ma'.

[A]

Am. The Color of Death. And I'll just read one page. I'm sorry to cut this short, but it's imperative I take this call. It's about Rachel's case. Thank you again. Give my best to Dom. I stride out of the office, lifting my phone to my ear. This is calm. No, that's not great. You understand me. Understand what? Irene asks. I wave at Amanda and head into the hall. Once I'm out of earshot, I respond. Meet me in my office. We have a lot of work to do. The Color of Death. Have you always wanted to be a fiction writer?

[B]

I have had this book in my head for a decade.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Never had the guts to put pen to paper until Suzanne Scott said, you should try.

[A]

Really?

[B]

She's the reason I wrote it.

[A]

Interesting. And what was the process like?

[B]

Well, every time there was a boring speech or my attention would wane, I would kind of write this book in my head. But I'd always written nonfiction, and it is a big jump. So I needed a collaborator who was familiar with fiction.

[A]

Christopher Grayson.

[B]

Christopher Grayson is a phenomenal fiction writer. The only thing I can add is the reality of the courtroom because I spent so much time in it and the interaction between cops and prosecutors and victims and prosecutors. So it was a collaboration. It was a labor of love, as you can kind of tell from the way things were left hanging. I have other books in my head.

[A]

Oh, great. So you're like the next John Grisham.

[B]

I don't know about that. He's one of a kind. But I for sure have you met him? Have I met. No. I had a chance to do it at a speaking engagement, and I was not able to make the speaking engagement. But I'd love to. I'd love to meet him. I think we're on different political sides, but the great thing about lawyers is you're gonna sit there and talk until you find something in common, and you're not gonna argue with each other. And I would love to meet him. He's fabulously talented.

[A]

So you talk about the relationship between cops and prosecutors. Is it. Are they at loggerheads often? Do they. Do they have a natural tension because of their respective professions?

[B]

I would say we work with each other, but not for one another. And the reason I want, you know, one of the characters in this book is kind of an amalgamation of the three homicide detectives I work the most closely with.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And you become like brothers because you have seen some of the crime scenes. Kennedy, you cannot get out of your head. It doesn't matter how long, how much time passes, you cannot get it out of your head. So you're fellow like travelers in this awful world of malice and depravity. And it creates a bond. I actually the lead homicide prosecutor I worked the most with, I drove to a law school in Charleston and got on my hands and knees and begged the dean to let him into law school. And he did. And he is now one of the more prominent lawyers in my hometown.

[A]

Interesting.

[B]

Now, he did not have great grades and he did not have a great LSAT score, but I knew he could do it. He went when he was 50 years old old, he went back to law school, and now he is one of the most sought after lawyers in my hometown.

[A]

And. And so he's in private practice.

[B]

He's in private practice. And I don't really practice a ton of law anymore, but I remember these homicide cops got together and said, we want to meet you. They had had a suit. They don't make a ton of money. Yeah, they make next to nothing. They had gone to a tailor and they pitched in their money and had a suit made for me. And that was their gift to me for being what they thought was a good prosecutor for them. It is a very, very special bond.

[A]

Between prosecutors and cops and South Carolina, obviously, an interesting state. And so the Alex Murtaugh case, when you first saw that, what did the prosecutor inside of you say?

[B]

Well, I knew his father. His father was the district attorney when I was the district attorney. So we would see each other multiple times a year. Never met Alex Murdoch A lot of people, you know, human nature is, you would never kill a child, of course, but. But prosecutors know it happens all the time. So my question was, can you prove it? I never doubted that he did it.

[A]

Did you think he did it from the get go?

[B]

From the get go. Wow.

[A]

And was it about the case that.

[B]

Made you realize that motive? Drug abuse, financial problems, and you are exponentially likely to be killed by somebody you know and claims to love you than you are by a stranger? Stranger? Crime is what scares us. I mean, I used to tell women who were afraid to walk through the parking lot at Walmart, statistically, you're more in danger once you get home than you are walking through a parking lot at Walmart. I want you to be vigilant no matter where you are. But just understand, the man that is waiting on you at home is more likely to kill you than any stranger you walk past in the parking lot.

[A]

That is scary.

[B]

It is, but it's also true.

[A]

Yeah. And are those the sort of axioms that cops and prosecutors take with themselves? Even though, you know, people choose to be naive, like, we choose to kind of operate with a bubble around ourselves because it would be much harder to go through life knowing what actually lurks beneath the surface of the worst among us.

[B]

It ruins your soul, to be honest with you. Our daughter used to drag her pillow and her blanket and sleep beside my side of the bed. Not because I discussed cases at home, but she overheard enough to know that there were awful things in the world. And she knew that her mom would tell her to go get back in her bed, but she knew her dad would not. So for, I'd say, two years, that child slept on the floor beside her father. Because of what I chose to do for a living, she now happens to be in the criminal justice system herself.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yeah. She turned out great. She is a public defender.

[A]

That's incredible. In South Carolina.

[B]

In South Carolina, in the same courthouse, although they redid it, that her old man used to work in. So it. You know, both my kids went to law school. One gravitated towards criminal, and the other has no interest in criminal or practicing law. He does real estate, but it extracts a toll. Not unlike Colm Truesdale. I mean, some people, it makes them go closer to their faith. Some people, it makes them just say, God, how can you possibly let this happen? And there are no answers. Meet Susan Smith. That case will haunt me for the rest of my life. And it didn't even happen in my jurisdiction. It doesn't matter how often you See it, Kennedy. You never get used to. To kids being killed. You just never get used to it.

[A]

No. It is the greatest injustice that we see as human beings.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And it's hard to reconcile. It's hard to let go of. And for a lot of people, that's why they can't engage with the criminal justice system professionally like you have. Don't go anywhere. More Kennedy Saves the World right after this.

[C]

This is Jason Chaffetz from the Jason in the House podcast. Join me every Monday to dive deeper into the latest political headlines and chat with remarkable guests. Listen and follow [e-mail] or wherever you download podcasts.

[A]

Do you find the work that you're doing now satisfying, or do you miss that side of it? Is there an element of it that's almost addictive that you find you miss?

[B]

It is addictive, and I warn kids in law school now, when it gets in your blood, you will not get it out. I did not run for Congress. I ran to get out of the courtroom. I was looking for an honorable way out because there was a Mother's Day 2009, where my wife and my mom, who are the two biggest influences in my life, both sat me down and said, you have got to go do something else.

[A]

Were they worried for your safety?

[B]

Another word for my soul. I had become hopelessly cynical. I mean, they're both devoutly spiritual, and I don't mean, like fake. I mean, it is the epicenter of their lives. And I was becoming just increasingly cynical because I just don't understand how an omnipotent God can allow that to happen. So, you know, my wife kind of sat there more quietly because moms have a way of talking to their sons that nobody else can do. And they just said, you need to go do something else. So it's either run for AG I had a friend who wanted to be the ag and I value friendship, so I'm not going to do that. I had no interest in being in Congress. It was just the path of least resistance.

[A]

Yeah. And what did you find when you got there?

[B]

That I was underwhelmed and I missed home, and I couldn't wait to get back.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I didn't enjoy it, and I don't think I was good at it. I think I was pretty good in the courtroom. I certainly tried to be.

[A]

I thought you were a great congressman. Like, you were one of those people. Like, I love the prosecutorial side of you. I love that when you would question people and back them into a corner where, you know, they abandoned the truth long ago. But you know that that gives those of us who put faith and are members of Congress a sense of justice because, you know, justice is so lacking nowadays.

[B]

And then I had nothing to show for it. So I would cross examine them for five minutes. There's no indictment, there's no arrest warrant, there's no punishment. It's just, can you survive being humiliated for five minutes? And all the emails I would get that night would be, why is this person not in jail? Well, I can't put them in jail. I'm a member of Congress. That was my old job. So the public is frustrated because you just made a case for why this person should be in trouble and yet they're not in trouble. And it goes back to civics. I mean, members of Congress can't put anybody in prison. And John Radcliffe, another former federal prosecutor, ran into the same thing. I mean, Jim Jordan's a lawyer, he doesn't want people to know that. But he's now been outed. He went to law school. We ran into this. Okay, all these people did these awful things where the consequences, Members of Congress can't put anybody anywhere. We can't do anything to them.

[A]

So what should people do? Because I was talking to Justin Amash recently and he was talking about potentially running for Congress again. You know, in his district. He was popular in Michigan. Very libertarian, Republican and a friend. Yeah, he's. I have, I have a tremendous amount of respect for him. Also a lawyer by trade, but he was disillusioned by Congress and then he got out, ran for Senate. He didn't get the Republican nomination for Senate in his state. And so he's talking about going back. Do you think that someone needs to have an intervention with him or do you think it would be different someone second time around?

[B]

You know, I would sit down. I always had a good relationship with Justin. Even when we didn't vote alike, we didn't see eye to eye. I used to tell him, we need to hear your voice. It doesn't mean we need to listen to it, but we need to hear it because the party is big enough for that libertarian strain. And Justin, whether people like him or not, he was authentic. It was not invented with Justin. He really, really believed it. And he was the same all fear as he was in committee. Also liked him because he would give me his time. He also knew that he was not the best cross examiner in the world. So he would give me his time and I would give him my time. If he were better on something. I would say, Justin, honestly, what's changed? I mean, is it better or worse than when we were there? I mean, Justin was on social media explaining his votes way before anybody else was. Yes, way before anybody else was. But if you're not with one liners or talking about fake eyelashes or body types, Justin, that's not you. That was never him.

[A]

Yeah. And he shouldn't try to be something.

[B]

That he can't be that.

[A]

Yeah, he.

[B]

Look, he is an authentic libertarian. He is a Ron Paul libertarian. Maybe even more than Rand Paul is a Ron Paul libertarian. So I would say, Justin, I mean, what committee assignments do you want? You gotta sign up with one jersey or the other or you're not gonna get on good committees. I think I tried to help him get on Judiciary, actually. I know I tried to help him get on Judiciary even though I knew he wouldn't vote with us. I thought he had earned it. And under the heading, you can get along with people even when you don't vote the same way. I really thought we need to hear what you have to say. Even if we don't follow it, we need to hear it.

[A]

Yeah. It's valuable to have those voices in your caucus because they do tend to keep parties honest.

[B]

Yes. FISA privacy. He was. You can say what you want. I know he and the President had differences. Justin was authentic. And that's what I'm looking for, is authenticity in a body that is not known for authenticity. But I would say I probably still have his number. I would probably see. Justin is actually worse than it was when we were there. So is there not a better way for you to use your talents? Is there not a better platform than to be 1of435?

[A]

Yes, I think there's probably a better way. Although he was talking about being speaker of the House.

[B]

You gotta get 218 votes, Justin. I mean, honestly, how? I mean, where's it coming from, brother?

[A]

I love his optimism. I share his orthodox faith. I think he's a great person. I think you're a tremendous person. I'm so glad you are here at Fox. Selfishly, the Color of Death is Trey Gowdy's book. He is a New York Times number one bestselling author. And you need to buy this immediately. This makes a wonderful back to school gift not only for college students, but also their parents who have a little more time on their hands. Yeah, I'm one of them. So, Trey Gowdy, thank you so much for being here.

[B]

Thank you, Kennedy, for having me.

[A]

Cheers to you and all of your success.

[B]

Yes, ma'.

[A]

Am. And the next work of fiction.

[B]

Likewise. Thank you.

[A]

This has been Kennedy Saves the World along with Trey Gowdy. I'm Kennedy. This is ad free with a Fox News Podcast plus subscription on Apple Podcasts and Amazon Prime. Members can listen to this show ad free on the Amazon Music app. Oh, go ahead and leave me a review while you're there. I'd love to hear what you have to say. You've been listening to Kennedy Saves the World on the Fox News Podcast Network.

[C]

It's Will Tane Country. Watch it live at noon Eastern Monday through [e-mail] or on the Fox News YouTube channel. And don't miss the show. Listen and follow the podcast five days a week at foxnewspodcasts.com or wherever you download your favorite podcasts.