Kennedy Saves The '90s

Summary

Kennedy Saves The World – “Kennedy Saves the '90s”

Date: November 12, 2025
Host: Kennedy
Guest: Rob Harvilla, author of 60 Songs That Explain the '90s and host of the podcast by the same name

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Episode Overview

Kennedy embarks on a nostalgic and unfiltered celebration of 1990s music and culture with guest Rob Harvilla, whose book and podcast, 60 Songs That Explain the '90s, dive deep into the era’s iconic soundtracks, personalities, and cultural shifts. Together, they reminisce about the decade’s alternative scene, the enduring power of its pop and rock stars, and how the music of their youth unexpectedly shaped the generations that followed. The conversation weaves personal stories, cultural criticism, and the idiosyncrasies of fame, fandom, and identity.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Kennedy and Rob’s 1990s Beginnings

• Kennedy’s Rescue by Alternative Music: Kennedy opens with how the 90s alternative scene “saved her life.”
  • “I was headed for the gutter. But thank goodness the alternative scene showed up and put me on the right path.” (00:11)
• Rob describes his experience as a college radio DJ and his strong desire to write for Rolling Stone.
  • Humble admissions about his lackluster radio skills add self-deprecating humor: “Was I any good? No. That’s the easiest question to answer.” (01:17)

90s Nostalgia, College Days, and Radio Riot Stories

• Both reminisce about their time at Ohio University and infamous student traditions.
• Rob recounts DJing during the “Time Change Riot” when students protested losing bar time to daylight savings by setting trash cans on fire.
  • “I was playing the Afghan Whigs at the time to an audience of nobody. But that did occur.” (03:58)

Looking Back: Bands, Albums, and Personalities

• Third Eye Blind:
  • Kennedy and Rob poke fun at Stephen Jenkins and the notorious hubris and drama within the band.
  • “Everyone only remembers one song.” – Kennedy (04:44)
  • Rob reflects on Jenkins’s classic “rock star swagger… in the 90s when you weren’t supposed to be like that anymore.” (05:10)
• TikTok & Algorithmic Nostalgia:
  • They discuss how TikTok and pop culture (e.g., Stranger Things) resurface and redefine 90s hits for younger audiences.
  • “Sometimes it’s stuff that was already established and popular and just becomes popular again… and sometimes it’s just completely random stuff.” – Rob (06:54)
• Nirvana T-Shirts and Generational Time Travel:
  • Rob muses: “I do always wonder what younger people think it was like… just based on what T-shirts they buy… what songs get big on TikTok.” (08:19)

The Power and Vulnerability of 90s Lyrics

• Nine Inch Nails, Smashing Pumpkins, Pearl Jam:
  • Kennedy: “I was there for the recording of that album… and I love that song so much. I think it’s perfect.” (09:01 referring to "Closer" by NIN)
  • Rob: “The facts that Trent Reznor, that Billy Corgan, that Eddie Vedder, that Kurt Cobain… I would listen to their lyrics and I would feel like… they were reading them directly out of my diary.” (10:06)
• This leads to a wider discussion about the effectiveness of honest, personal songwriting and its universality.
• Memorable Quote:
  • Rob: “The more personal your writing is, you know, the more universal it feels to the people listening.” (11:47)

90s Women in Music and Media

• Tori Amos, Fiona Apple, Courtney Love, Bjork:
  • Kennedy shares a story about almost getting fired for an on-air joke about Tori Amos—later realizing the gravity of Amos's story.
  • Both discuss how 90s press was often rough and objectifying towards female musicians.
  • Rob: “The whole 'women in rock' thing, in retrospect, it's just so infantilizing almost and just so absurd.” (26:34)
• Courtney Love:
  • Kennedy: “Courtney wore baby doll dresses so short you could see her coos... carried Kurt’s ashes around in... a little Hello Kitty backpack.” (26:34–27:03)

Oasis & 90s Britpop

• Wonderwall’s Enduring Reign:
  • Kennedy and Rob debate which Oasis song best explains the 90s. Rob ultimately chooses “Wonderwall,” but with love for “Don’t Look Back in Anger” and “Slide Away.”
    • “You have a genuine impulse to find some... try and be cool about it. But I do think you just have to bow to the supremacy of Wonderwall.” – Rob (16:13–16:36)
  • Kennedy lampoons Liam Gallagher’s stage persona: “He looked like a dirty Gorton’s fisherman.” (17:34)

TLC, MTV, and the Opening of the 90s Pop World

• The rise of TLC is highlighted as landmark for MTV and representation of hip-hop and R&B.
  • Rob: “They each had their own lane. It occurs to me that kids K-pop demon hunters... it's a very TLC vibe.” (18:47)
• Kennedy recalls MTV opening up to diverse genres after years of being “so white and... insular and stupid.” (19:21)
• They laugh about Rob’s error mixing up Montel Williams and Montel Jordan. (20:14–20:30)

Fame, Fandom, and the 90s/Today

• Coolio and Steven Jenkins at the MTV Ski House:
  • Kennedy shares stories about hanging out with Coolio (“so much fun”) versus Jenkins (“such a tool”), illustrating the difference in personalities behind-the-scenes. (21:25)
• Fandom through the Years:
  • Rob notes the intimidating passion of Tori Amos fans and contrasts the media treatment and fan base intensity of Tori, Britney Spears, and Taylor Swift.
  • Both lament the exploitation and lack of agency experienced by Britney compared to the control Taylor Swift maintains today.
    • “You wanted Britney Spears to have a fraction of the control over her own career, you know, that it’s clear Taylor Swift had from the beginning. You know, it would have made all the difference.” – Rob (29:48–30:32)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On 90s Lyrics and Connection:
  • Rob: “The more personal your writing is, you know, the more universal it feels to the people listening.” (11:47)
• On TikTok Reshuffling Nostalgia:
  • Rob: “I enjoy the way TikTok distorts our sense of linear time. I’m really into how baffled I am.” (06:54)
• On Wonderwall:
  • Rob: “You have to bow to the supremacy of Wonderwall, you know, from a cultural perspective.” (16:36)
• On Women in Rock Press:
  • Rob: “It looked so sweaty now.” (26:34)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:10–02:00: Kennedy and Rob’s introductions; college DJing stories
• 03:58: Rob’s “Time Change Riot” recollection
• 04:35–06:17: Third Eye Blind analysis and Stephen Jenkins anecdotes
• 06:54–08:19: TikTok, nostalgia, Nirvana T-shirts
• 09:01–11:47: The vulnerable power of 90s lyrics; Nine Inch Nails discussion
• 13:32: Kennedy’s Rocket from the Crypt ankle tattoo story
• 15:20–17:47: Oasis, Wonderwall, Liam Gallagher’s stage persona
• 18:23–19:21: TLC’s MTV breakthrough, expanding cultural representation
• 21:25–22:05: Coolio and Jenkins at the MTV Ski House
• 24:57–28:16: Fiona Apple, Tori Amos, the media's treatment of women artists
• 28:54–31:08: Britney Spears vs. Taylor Swift and agency in pop stardom
• 31:26–31:58: Farewells, book recommendation, closing thoughts

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Conclusion

This episode is a lively, deeply personal, and sharply observed journey through the pop and alternative landscape of the 90s. Kennedy and Rob Harvilla revel in the nostalgia, challenge surface-level trends, and reflect on the emotional and cultural resonance that defined—and continues to define—the decade.
Fans get not just a playlist of memories, but a candid look at the imperfections, influences, and aftershocks of an unforgettable era—served with irreverence and heart.

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Recommended For:
Anyone with a fondness for 90s music, the MTV era, or cultural commentary with a punky, honest edge. Rob Harvilla’s book, 60 Songs That Explain the '90s, gets an enthusiastic endorsement from Kennedy.

Transcript

[Rob Harvilla]

Foreign.

[Kennedy]

Hello, and welcome to this episode of Kennedy Saves the World. There is nothing that has saved music more than music in the 90s. Saved music, saved the world, saved my life. I was headed for the gutter. But thank goodness the alternative scene showed up and put me on the right path. I was no longer on a date with destiny and destruction. So Rob Harvilla has a wonderful podcast, 60 Songs that Explain the 90s. Now he has a book, 60 Songs that Explain the 90S. Oddly enough. Look at that title. Rob Harvilla, you wrote for Spin, Deadspin, Village Voice, all of it. And you are here, Rob. Welcome to Kennedy Saves the World.

[Rob Harvilla]

Thank you for having me. I'm thrilled to be here. It's an honor to meet you. Of course, as another alternative rock kid, this is surreal and delightful for me to be speaking with you.

[Kennedy]

So you were a college DJ in the 90s. Tell me about that. And were you any good?

[Rob Harvilla]

Was I any good? No. That's the easiest question to answer. I laughed immediately because I was a college dj, but we were cable radio. You had to hook up your stereo to your television somehow to even hear our radio station. And nobody did this, including me. So I was literally speaking to myself. And I am so grateful for that. In retrospect, I'm grateful that there aren't really tapes of me as a college radio dj. I'm sure I was terrible, and I'm sure I would not be able to get a job anywhere if those tapes were, like, public. Right? But I. I was indeed a college radio dj, but I. In the sense that I was in a room with a lot of CDs, talking to myself, ostensibly on the radio, but no one else could hear me. And that is a blessing to me and to them.

[Kennedy]

But you have done a phenomenal job documenting that time in the 90s that was so special and so specific. And I'm guessing a lot of that documentation had to do with your life as a music journalist.

[Rob Harvilla]

Yeah, man. I went to high school and College in the 90s. I graduated in 2000. And so I was an alternative rock kid, you know, it was my entire identity all through high school and college. I guess I was an indie rock or college rock kid in college, but I wanted to write for Rolling Stone. That's all I wanted to do. That's what I told everyone I wanted to do all through high school. I applied to one college because it was this college in my state with the best journalism program.

[Kennedy]

What college? Remind people that.

[Rob Harvilla]

I would be happy to remind you it Was Ohio University.

[Kennedy]

Oh, you.

[Rob Harvilla]

That's right. That's right. That's. I'm thrilled that, you know that I. You. Your. Your boisterousness suggests to me that you were in on campus on Halloween at some point. Is that a possibility? We are quite famous.

[Kennedy]

Oh, I know Halloween's famous. I know that because I get videos from Halloween now. And yes, I'm from Ohio University many times, most famously Mom's Weekend last year. Or, you know, it was. It was this year. And, yeah, I'll be going back to Mom's Week in a few months if they'll have me. I have a feeling a few of the bars might have a restraining order against me. But, yes, home of the Bobcats, the. The unsung gem of the Midwest. And, you know, and everyone. If you tell someone Ohio University, they go, oh, the Ohio University. It's like, no, no, no, that's Ohio State. That is a different beast.

[Rob Harvilla]

That's right. Another thing.

[Kennedy]

So you ever.

[Rob Harvilla]

Did you ever attend a Time Change Riot? That's the other thing that OU is famous for. I was a college radio DJ during. I was on the air. No one could hear me again. But I was on the air during the first Time Change riot when the clock sprung forward and everyone lost an hour of bar time and they rioted, quote, unquote. Meaning they lit a few trash cans on fire and it was in the news. Yeah, that's the thing that happened. I was playing the Afghan Waves at the time to an audience of nobody. But that did occur.

[Kennedy]

I'm sure little Greg Dooley appreciated that immensely, though.

[Rob Harvilla]

He better. He better.

[Kennedy]

So there. I think one of my favorite parts of your book was everyone on Stephen Jenkins from Third Eye Blind.

[Rob Harvilla]

Oh, man.

[Kennedy]

And they. They committed, and I. I'm gonna. I'm gonna blame him for this. The colossal mistake of naming their first album after themselves. Like, you never do that, you know, the first album is never Third Eye Blind. But I think he was so impressed with his own voice and. And the songs that, of course, everyone only remembers one song.

[Rob Harvilla]

Right? I went and saw Third Eye Blind. It's like him and a bunch of random younger dudes now. But like, that album, those songs hold up. And there was a huge crowd of people who were younger than me, you know, Like, I think that he has endured, but I think it is genuinely remarkable how many people went on the record dislike that guy on the record, right? And it's like all his former bandmates who he jettisoned, you know, on the path of fame. You know, everyone he's ever toured with like people who you don't think of is talking trash. Right? Like the dude from Smash Mouth, the dude from Jimmy. God rest his soul, you know. God rest his soul. Yes. And it's just, it's just a very unpleasant but in like a classic rock star way. Like he was a classic like rock star swaggering jerk, you know, but in the 90s when you weren't supposed to be like that anymore, like he was a throwback and how unpleasant he was, was as a person. But that made him a perfect rock star. And I. Suspense. That's. I sense that's how he's endured, you know, to this day. Or at least they can tour and they can play songs from that first album.

[Kennedy]

Yes, of course. And it's, it's very interesting because, you know, and, and all it takes is like five seconds of song on Tick Tock and. And then, you know, or that's right. Inclusion in Stranger Things and then everyone knows what it is. At least, you know, my girl's age. Like there's so many artists and songs they know from the 90s because of algorithms. Therefore you page and just, you know, the most random things that I don't think you could orchestrate, but they just. There is a catchiness about it and you know, it, it sticks with people.

[Rob Harvilla]

Yeah. And that works, as you say, Stranger Things. Kate Bush, that works for her. I'm sure that's worth for a Third Eye Blind. But then like Duster got big on TikTok. Like shoegaze from the 90s that wasn't even super popular at the time. Like suddenly that got much more popular via TikTok. Like I was, I was looking, I was reading a lot about Jeff Buckley recently and like a Jeff Buckley song, I think lover, you should have come over was apparently a viral sensation on TikTok. Like sometimes it's stuff that was already established and popular and just becomes popular again, like running up that hill or whatever. And sometimes it's just completely, completely random stuff that's like not obscure but like was not the most popular thing in the 90s, but now everyone sort of thinks that it might have been. Like, I enjoy the way TikTok distorts our sense of linear time. I'm really into how baffled I am.

[Kennedy]

It's like when you go to Japan and the English phrases that are on T shirts, like, they make no sense at all, but people are like, oh yeah, right. It's pretty, it's pretty great phrase, huh? You like that?

[Rob Harvilla]

TikTok is The Japan of the Internet.

[Kennedy]

It is. Yeah. It's like, you know, it's like it's doing an impression of, oh, well, this must be what was liked and consumed in the 90s. And, you know, it's like they're not quite sure which syllable to put the emphasis on.

[Rob Harvilla]

I mean, what I always say is, like, I see Nirvana T shirts in Target now, right? Like, I see, like, teenagers now wearing Nirvana T shirts or whatever. And I'm like, well, that's interesting. Like, and I don't want to do, like, the name three songs thing where, like, you do. You don't know what you're. You. You weren't there. You didn't live it. You know, like, it's. It's rad that it lives on in that way. But I do always wonder what younger people think it was like, you know, based on what T shirts they buy and what T shirts they can buy and, like, what songs get big on Tick Tock or in movies or whatever. Like, just what people think the ninet was like. Now, like, how does that differ from what the 90s was actually like, you know?

[Kennedy]

Yeah, it's. You know, it's hard to explain, and it should be, but it was. You know, I'm sure how we listen to Steve Miller Band and in high school and, you know, we're like, yeah, 70s rock. I want to talk about Nine Inch Nails, closer, because, okay, that was like, I was. I was there for the recording of that album, some of the writing, and I love that song so much. I think. I think it's perfect. I think the video is perfect, and it holds up beautifully. And, you know, for Trent Reznor to be like, you know, I don't want to be known. I didn't want to know anything about Pink Floyd or Supertramp, but he. He is a very narcissistic person.

[Rob Harvilla]

I can imagine that. I was not around for the recording of the Downward Spiral. I was not in the room. I have never, you know, been within, like, 500ft of Trent Reznor.

[Kennedy]

That's the restraining order, really?

[Rob Harvilla]

Concerts. That's right. Yeah, that's. And I understand that. I respect that immensely. I mean, the Downward Spiral was. Was one of the three to five most important albums to me in high school. And it's very funny to me now, like, to think of how many hundreds of times I listened to that album and how I relate to him. Right? It's like, this guy gets me. This guy understands my pain, you know? And my pain is like, I don't have A date to homecoming. Whereas Trent's pain is like, whatever. I. I don't even want to get into it, right? But I just. The facts that Trent Reznor, that Billy Corgan, that Eddie Vedder, that Kirk Cobain, that any of these guys, Greg Dooley, that. Any of these guys, like, I would listen to their lyrics and I would feel like, you know, they were reading them directly out of my diary or something. Like, we had this connection, you know, but we did it actually. Like, I don't know how I ever projected my personal angst onto their actual angst. You know what I mean?

[Kennedy]

Oh, I know. I mean, I know exactly. Because especially the raw emotions that you feel in high school never really leave you. And it's like, you know, longing and lust and abandonment and frustration and anger. Anger at the machine. People telling you no, constantly.

[Rob Harvilla]

The machine, yes.

[Kennedy]

And those. Those things resonate with you. And if you are a good writer, you tap into that and you write honestly about what you're feeling. And I think that's what those guys were really good at. Instead of, you know, writing for an audience and trying to anticipate what they want, it's like, write about what you really know. And that's. That's why so many of these things hold up and they're so effective.

[Rob Harvilla]

That's the magic to me that, like, the more personal your writing is, you know, the more universal it feels to the people listening, you know? Like, I think about, like, Adam Durrett to the Counting Crows, right? Like, he's writing all these. He's right, if you're into him or not. But, like, he's writing about Anna. He's writing about, you know, like, California, you know, and if you don't know these people and you've never been to these places, you wouldn't think that you would emotionally connect with these songs that he's writing. But he means it so much. It clearly means so much to him that it projects onto you, and you can project your own stuff onto it. Like, again, that alchemy of taking something so personal and making it feel like everyone can relate to it, like, that's a really cool thing. Whether it's Nine Inch Nails or Counting.

[Kennedy]

Crows or Tori Amos. Like, she, you know, or Tori Amos, as you point. I gotten so. I almost got fired for. For saying something awful about Tori Amos on a voiceover in the middle of the night on mtv. And my boss called me into his office, and he screamed at me so loud and with such ferocity, I thought he was going to have A stroke because his. His neck veins were bulging to a point where I was like, you know, he's going to drop dead. I'm going to get sued. I was just joking. You know, apparently, like, jokes aren't allowed in the middle of the night. And I didn't realize that she was the victim of rape. And, you know, and when I realized that, I got very mad at the guys in Rocket from the Crypt who gave me the nickname that I used about her and. But they were amused that I love that band. That's my favorite band in the world and ever. Is Rocket from the Crypt. Not. Not.

[Rob Harvilla]

That's a great pick for favorite band ever.

[Kennedy]

That's the only band where I have their logo tattooed on my ankle.

[Rob Harvilla]

Oh, and that means you get any shows for free, right?

[Kennedy]

Exactly right.

[Rob Harvilla]

With them. Okay.

[Kennedy]

I don't know if it's still.

[Rob Harvilla]

Anyway, I'm sorry that they did that to you.

[Kennedy]

No, that was like.

[Rob Harvilla]

I would hope that it would be a lifetime thing.

[Kennedy]

Yeah, I. I would like to think so. But, you know, the last few shows I paid for. I don't care. Like, I'd much rather support those guys because in my mind, they're still support the scene. Amazing and incredible. Absolutely. I want to go to. And I thought this was very funny. The things. The dumbest mistakes I've made on the show so far. And, you know, this was. You put this in the beginning of the book, which I thought was great.

[Rob Harvilla]

And I did.

[Kennedy]

You know, you talked about this one a little later. Oh, no. This is the things that you were embarrassed to say. The Liam Gallagher Rolling Stone quote that included the phrase, but I've just. In their gob. And Rolling Stone had to parenthetically define.

[Rob Harvilla]

Gob as parentheses mouth. Yes.

[Kennedy]

Close parentheses.

[Rob Harvilla]

So it's one maybe. Yes. Parentheses mouth is one of the most incredible single words and punctuation situations I've ever encountered in Rolling Stone. I was really, really incredible, and I was glad I got to say that out loud on a podcast. My mom was thrilled as well, of course.

[Kennedy]

Don't go anywhere. More Kennedy Saves the World right after this.

[Rob Harvilla]

It's Will Kane Country Watch it live at noon Eastern Monday through [e-mail] or on the Fox News YouTube channel. And don't miss the show. Listen and follow the podcast five days a week at foxnewspodcasts.com or wherever you download your favorite podcasts.

[Kennedy]

So if you had to. If you had to, you know, distill a song that explained the 90s from Oasis, which one would it Be Wonderwall.

[Rob Harvilla]

Oh, man. You know, I, I did an episode on Wonderwall. Wonderwall seems like the obvious choice. Whenever I go back and listen to what's the Story Morning Glory, I am more drawn to Don't Look Back in Anger. I think it's a better song. I enjoy it more. I do understand why Wonderwall has endured as, like, the obvious hit. And I'm really kicking myself for not going to any of these reunion shows.

[Kennedy]

You didn't go, apparently.

[Rob Harvilla]

We're just, like, rapturous. I did. They didn't. I'm in Ohio, man. They didn't get closer to me than Chicago or maybe Toronto.

[Kennedy]

Yeah.

[Rob Harvilla]

I was waiting for them to come to Columbus, Ohio, which was never, ever going to happen. But, yeah, I really should have gone to one of.

[Kennedy]

They could have played the shoe.

[Rob Harvilla]

Wonder. They could. They could have played the shoe. They should have played the shoe. That would have been incredible. I, I. You gotta pick Wonderwall. It seems like the obvious choice. You have a genuine impulse, you know, to find some, you know, say, acquiesce or something, like, try and be cool about it. But I do think you just have to. You just have to bow to the supremacy of Wonderwall, you know, from a cultural perspective.

[Kennedy]

I love Morning Glory, the song.

[Rob Harvilla]

Yes, that's a great one. I love Slide Away from the first record. That's probably my favorite Oasis song, you know? And I also think it's very funny that Oasis had, like, three or four albums after the first two or three that they don't really even acknowledge anymore. Like, I think it's really rad the way they're like, why don't we forget everything that we did after 1997, you know, and everyone's like, that's cool. We can do that.

[Kennedy]

Yeah. No, let's just, let's just sing the hits. And that's. That's what the.

[Rob Harvilla]

None of that ever happened.

[Kennedy]

Yeah. The concert was just people.

[Rob Harvilla]

That's what.

[Kennedy]

Standing around, just, Just singing along. That's all they wanted was, you know, they were going to play 500 bucks a ticket to sing along with the band on stage. Not doing much. Liam. Not terribly charismatic, very smug.

[Rob Harvilla]

No. But it works for them.

[Kennedy]

But that's what you wanted. Exactly.

[Rob Harvilla]

Right. Did he do that? Did he. Did he have the hands behind his back and he's saying, like, he sort of puts his hands about his back and sings upward. He's got the. The parka.

[Kennedy]

Yep. He looked like a dirty Gorton's fisherman. Yep.

[Rob Harvilla]

That'S right. Just ready to go fishing at a Moment's notice. It's beautiful. I'm very angry. I did not go.

[Kennedy]

What about, what about tlc? I remember tlc, their first performance at mtv and they were in their like giant white painter pants with like crop tops. And they were all little and beautiful and perfect and each one of them inhabited like their own specific, slightly quirky beauty lane. And I was just looking at them like, you guys are awesome. And they weren't famous yet, but I don't want no Scrubs. You don't want no Scrubs? You, you write about not wanting no Scrubs.

[Rob Harvilla]

That's right. I, I love them because every album is like a distinct era. Right. Like they ain't too proud at bag era as you're saying, like from the beginning, you know, and then crazy sexy cool, like just the ubiquity of Waterfalls on MTV is what I remember most. Right. Like no Scrubs I think has sort of emerged as everybody's favorite TLC song. Those first three.

[Kennedy]

I mean, that's the one you sing at karaoke for sure.

[Rob Harvilla]

And so distinct. Yeah, exactly, exactly. Like, I have a five year old daughter who's huge into K Pop Demon Hunters right now. And I, as you say, like they each had their own lane. Like, it occurs to me that kids K Pop Demon Hunters, like, it's a trio. Huntricks, right, like that's the band, that's the group in that movie. And it's a very TLC vibe where they're so distinct as individuals, but they come together and make something more than the whole of their parts. Like it's, it's a beautiful thing, you know, and it's apparently a universal thing. But now TLC were the best and TLC defined MTV for me as much as anybody else.

[Kennedy]

Yeah, absolutely. And that was a time where I, I finished reading Tom Preston's book and you know, we were able to sit down for a nice long interview. He was the CEO of MTV Networks and later CEO of Viacom. And we were, we were talking about that because in his book he talks about how MTV was so white and you know, and it was like insular and stupid and they realized it. And when I got there in 92, like they were, they were really ready to open up the scene for everyone to enjoy hip hop and R and B in a way that they never had before, where these genres had succeeded some of the more kind of predictable, wider genres. And you know, TLC was part of that. Montel Williams.

[Rob Harvilla]

Dr. Dre, you know, Dr. Dre, Snoop. I'm joking about Montel. Williams, though, because that was one of.

[Kennedy]

The things that you got wrong in your.

[Rob Harvilla]

That's right. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. The Montel Williams. Montel Jordan. Mistakes were made.

[Kennedy]

It's so great. We know it's Montel Jordan. Calm down.

[Rob Harvilla]

We do.

[Kennedy]

But, yes. And. And seeing all of that, like, the fact that there was room for that for everyone, like, you know, it wasn't like, well, I. I just want to see the new Alice in Chains video, but I. I don't want any of that rap music and intruding because it was like you wanted all of it. Like, you wanted to be invited to the party. And it's like every white kid who listened to NWA and later Dre and Ice Cube was like, they. If they rode by in the hoopty, they would totally invite me to get in.

[Rob Harvilla]

Like, totally.

[Kennedy]

Yeah.

[Rob Harvilla]

Yeah. Coolio. Coolio being a major rest in peace, of course. And, yeah, that's a fantastic voyage video. Very important to me and to everyone, really.

[Kennedy]

So Coolio and Steven Jenkins were both at the same MTV ski house. And I spent the whole day hanging out with Coolio because he was so much fun. And Steven Jenkins, like, invited himself to dinner one night. And I'm like, this guy is such a tool. You know, it's like, he's the kind of guy, like, I should. Like, I should look and be like, oh, my God, he's so sexy. I want to flirt with him. And it was just like, you're so douchey and weird and like, you were the guy, like, who wanted to be a jock, but you weren't fast. And so, you know, it's like you were secretly in choir, and now you can sit there. It's annoying.

[Rob Harvilla]

I thought you were going to tell me that Coolio and Steven Jenkins got on really well, but I'm almost.

[Kennedy]

Coolio was nice to everyone. Like, Julio would not have been unkind to him. Yeah. But Stephen Jenkins was just such a door and that. I don't know if that was the same. So all of the MTV ski houses are sort of lumped together. And then. And I told this story on my podcast recently, Oasis showed up to perform on the top of the mountain in Colorado. And Liam showed up doing this and, you know, with a little shovel. And I was like, I don't know what that means. And he was asking me where he could buy cocaine, and I don't know if he found it. But the next day they went to perform, and Noel sang all the songs. Liam just sat there, just smug, with his hands in his Body like, I can't sing. I can't do it. It's my instrument is not here today. I don't know why. Maybe someone put a little something in my gob mouth. I don't know.

[Rob Harvilla]

It'd be great if every time he said gob in America, he had to say mouth.

[Kennedy]

That's right.

[Rob Harvilla]

Did anyone ski during at the MTV Ski Chalet?

[Kennedy]

Yeah, we did have. We did have some people snowboard. And you know who showed up and who stayed in my room platonically who did not snowboard or who did snowboard. Snowboard the whole time was not on air at all.

[Rob Harvilla]

Okay.

[Kennedy]

Share his son.

[Rob Harvilla]

Really?

[Kennedy]

Yes. And he was great. He was Elijah Blue Almond. He was such a nice guy. Love snowboarding. Love talking about snowboarding. He's like, Jamie Lynn's amazing. That guy can shred the. Terry A. Hawkinson does the sickest butters I've ever seen. I saw Terry a dude, 30 butters in a row, man. And yeah, no one's interested in having him on air. And then he formed Dead Z and they had some success, and now he's having a tough time, which is sad because the Elijah Blue Almond I knew that I hosted the same week that Scott Ian from Anthrax stayed in my room. Also platonic.

[Rob Harvilla]

Okay.

[Kennedy]

He was lovely. And we were just. We were just down for. For the shredding.

[Rob Harvilla]

Yeah, I bet. I. It's guy you can snowboard. Absolutely.

[Kennedy]

Oh, yeah. He's like. He's. He's a short guy, and it's like he's. He's jumping around all the time. And so he's got strong legs. He's like, basically doing, like, you know, plyometric squats on stage all the time. So he was. He was a phenomenal snowboarder, along with Dominic, who was the man on the street guy for Headbangers Ball. The three of us drove to the Burton factory and we got free snowboards because of Scott. So thank you for your service. Scott Ian.

[Rob Harvilla]

Nice guy.

[Kennedy]

Fiona Apple. Fiona Apple was a teenage entre new who said that when she was photographed, she was treated like a hotel room. What did she mean?

[Rob Harvilla]

Man, that Spin. I love Spin magazine dearly, but that Spin magazine cover story, which I believe was shot by Terry Richardson. Oh, whatever that may mean to you, where she's in, she's on, like, a couch. Like, she's trying. She's got a couch cushion over herself or whatever. That's some rough going. Like, going back and reading Fiona Apple's 90s press. I would say the same About Tori Amos. Honestly, like, that's. That's a rough time. You know, people.

[Kennedy]

People try to, in a headline, like, make fun of rape. It's like, Tori Amos sings about rape and she's sexy. How does she do it?

[Rob Harvilla]

That's right. Yeah. It's. Why in, like, People magazine, dude, like, it's. It's wild. It's genuinely wild. And so. So, yeah, I. And of course, Fiona Apple and mtv, like, yeah, there was so much going on there at the very beginning. I could sense, even as a college kid, like, a nothing college kid. But it's just to go back now and, like, read the headlines, you know, the way these people. And the same for Bjork, the same for PJ Harvey, you know, the same for Courtney Love, of course. Like, the whole women in rock thing, in retrospect, it's just so infantilizing almost and, like, just so absurd, you know, as kind, you know, as it was trying to be, you know, it just. It looked so sweaty now.

[Kennedy]

I mean, but Courtney wore baby doll dresses so short you could see her coos. And then would carry Kurt's ashes around in, like, a little hello Kitty backpack. So I think she kind of invited that dichotomy that. That comparison. Like, I think anything that she was like the 90s alt rock version of Jasmine Crockett.

[Rob Harvilla]

Hmm. Interesting. I didn't know about the hello Kitty backpack. That's. That's a really. That's a vivid image right there. I'm gonna have to think about that for a while. But, yeah, I just remember how terrified I was by her and by hole.

[Kennedy]

Oh, yeah.

[Rob Harvilla]

In real time, right? Just hearing even doll parts, you know, just the silences in the middle of the song. Like, I just. That's one of the most chilling and the most terrifying songs of the 90s for me. And I'd say the same for, like, Rid of Me, you know, by PJ Harvey. You know, I spent a lot of the 90s just sort of cowering in fear, you know, even Tori Amos, you know, in her way, was just bone chilling to me. You know, when I was 17, she.

[Kennedy]

Was very intimidating, and she was. I just. I remember she recorded it like an acapella version of Smells Like Teen Spirit, and Nirvana used to walk out to it doing ballet, which was amazing.

[Rob Harvilla]

That does sound amazing. Her version of Smells Like Teen Spirit really is amazing.

[Kennedy]

She had a hauntingly beautiful voice. Like, truly tremendously.

[Rob Harvilla]

She did.

[Kennedy]

Talented.

[Rob Harvilla]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. That's. Of all the shows that I wish I'd seen in the 90s. Like, she's way up there just because of the intensity of her fans and like, apparently the intensity of just that environment, like the dead silence, like, the reverence that people have for her on stage and the power that she had on stage. Like, that's a show that I really wish that I had seen in real time. Because that sounds like just a universe unto itself, you know, a Tori Amos concert.

[Kennedy]

So how would you. How would you compare Tori Amos's fans with Britney Spears and Taylor Swift's?

[Rob Harvilla]

It's wild, right? Like, the sort of narrative now is that, you know, in the early 90s, you have riot Girl, you have Tori Amos, you have all of that, and then the Spice Girls show up and sort of blow it all up, you know, like, the Riot Girl movement becomes girl power and it becomes commercialized and becomes all popping. You know, Britney speaks over. And it's a completely different thing. But obviously the way we talk about Britney Spears now is, you know, to go back and read Britney Spears's late 90s press, like the Rolling Stone cover everyone talks about, like, that's the worst thing in the world.

[Kennedy]

They were, you know, like, they were. They were. They were sexualizing her and tearing her down and, you know, shaming her and judging her. And it's like, you know, I remember producers at mtv, I had already left, but they were like, she's just a kid. Like, why are they doing this to her?

[Rob Harvilla]

She is. It's gross. It's really, truly gross. And so to see Taylor Swift now is like, unequivocally, you know, the biggest pop star of our time and possibly ever, you know, and just the power that she has, you know, and the narrative, you know, the control of her narrative that she has usually, like, that's just what you, you know, to read Britney Spears memoir, you know, to watch any of the apology documentaries that we've done about her, you know, since the conservatorship. Like, you just. You wanted Britney Spears to have a fraction of the control over her own career, you know, that it's clear Taylor Swift had from the beginning. You know, it would have made all the difference. You know, it's just heartbreaking to watch.

[Kennedy]

How it actually, yeah, Taylor Swift has $1 billion and Britney Spears has pretty much 30 million. And, you know, obviously Taylor Swift has authored everything and, you know, she has a supportive family unit and an incredible team around her. And, you know, it feels like everyone who was from Britney's camp, they're just a bunch of Louisiana vultures. Like, ah, here we go. Go play. Nothing Gonna stick her in a crate and we'll poke her with a stick when we want her to perform. And she gonna go ahead and pay all the legal fees. Bada ding, ding, ding.

[Rob Harvilla]

Her dad. Her dad seems like a tough hang. You know, I'm. I. I don't believe I'm gonna read Kevin Federline's book if that's. If that's all right.

[Kennedy]

You thought you knew for not to.

[Rob Harvilla]

You thought you knew That's a title. That's a book title for you. I'm gonna. I'm gonna pass on that one.

[Kennedy]

Well, Rob, we must part. I want everyone to read your book. It is such a fun read. The way you differentiate all the eras and all the songs and how they go together and your admissions and your love and passion for the 90s, it just. It is dominating, and I absolutely adore it. So thank you so much. Hopefully, at some point, I will see you in the great state of Ohio so you can sign my book, 60 Songs that Explain the 90s.

[Rob Harvilla]

Thanks so much for having me.

[Kennedy]

Always and forever, this has been Kennedy Saves the World, where we adore the 90s. Along with Rob Harvilla, I'm Kennedy. Listen ad free With a Fox News podcast plus subscription on Apple Podcasts and Amazon Prime. Members can listen to this show ad free on the Amazon music app. Oh, go ahead and leave me a review while you're there. I'd love to hear what you have to say. You've been listening to Kennedy Saves the World on the Fox News podcast Network.