← Kennedy Saves the World
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Foreign.
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Hello, and welcome to this episode of Kennedy Saves the World. So I can tell you, as someone who has been in media over the last 34 years, oh, my God, it's been such a long time. I have seen the evolution of different famous people in different realms. Music, film, tv, politics, sports. And it's very interesting because I would say music and sports are the two areas that draw the biggest, most attentive fans, the fans who most identify with the person that they usually adore. But sometimes the adoration crosses the line and into stalkerdom. And we live in a time where celebrities have never been more accessible. Whitney Cummings said that social media is like giving everyone in the world your phone number because if they want to talk to you, if they want to talk about you, if they want to make a cutting remark, they know how to do it, they know where to find you. And it has made celebrities more accessible than ever. And the accessibility and the exchange between fan and superstar feels like a very level playing field because of social media. So much is known about everybody, and it doesn't matter who you are, how long you've been famous, how well known you are, how big your fan base is. The point really of all of this for many people is. Is to build a brand, to create an architecture around yourself, a scaffolding that people can climb so they get to know the real you, or at least they feel like that. And it has changed how people think about, look up, to engage with, try and connect with famous people. So how has this changed? Why has it changed? And has it changed for the better? Joining me now is Barstool Sports host Kelly Keegan. And, Kelly, welcome to Kennedy Saves the World.
- [02:26]
A
Thank you so much for having me. First of all, what you just said, I thought was very insightful, and I love something you said about celebrities feeling the need to build a scaffolding around themselves to kind of make them a little less accessible, but accessible to the fans that matter. And I do think that that's a. That's a really serious thing.
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B
And accessible in a way that they want to be accessed.
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A
Yes. Their own boundaries. They set their own boundaries. Yeah.
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B
Do you think Taylor Swift is the best example of that? Because it's very interesting. Because no matter what she does, and it doesn't matter if she is hand in hand walking into a restaurant with her fiance or having a girl's weekend by a pool, everything is curated, but everything is also meant to feel spontaneous and real and acknowledgement. She knows how famous she is. She also knows the kind of person she is. And somehow she is able to send that out into the world.
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A
Absolutely. And I think that there. There's definitely been a shift in her content. You know, I would say the last. Probably since 2018 or so, where she used to be a lot more open about what she was posting. She would post on Instagram the same as any celebrity would post on Instagram. A couple of photos of their vacation, maybe their boyfriend, maybe their siblings, parents, whatever. And now I feel like her. Her star has risen so far that her Instagram page at this point is kind of promo for her own stuff, you know, like, it's become promo for her albums, for her tours, for whatever. But it's rare that we get an insight into her personal life. And I think that that is a little bit of a reflection of how needy and greedy people are for the information on her personal life. And I know that I'm, you know, not a celebrity, but if somebody. Somebody were digging into my life constantly like that, it would make me feel uncomfortable and it would make me not want to share it as often. And I think that she is finally getting to a point, or seeming. Seems to be finally getting to a point where she's more comfortable sharing bits and pieces of her real personality and her life again with the fans. And. And as a fan, I just want all the other fans to, like, be cool about it, you know, like, don't go overboard. Don't be a freak about it. Don't, you know, monitor all the movements and. And kind of do things that. That a fan doesn't do. And it kind of leans more into the, you know, the parasocial on the bad side, you know, which does happen.
- [04:51]
B
That is such an interesting term that I only read about when I was doing a story about Timothee Chalamet for Love for Daily Mail. But he has this, like, older lady crazy fan who follows him everywhere and she posts and she's like, no, I know him. It's not a parasocial relationship.
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A
Is this. Is this Club Chalamet we talked about? Of course. Of course I know Club Chalamet, but. Right. She so funny that you're. That you're bringing up.
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She's like, I am not parasocial. This is not a picture.
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I will say the term. There is. Yeah, there's totally a difference.
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B
And.
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And people kind of clown Club Chalamet for her coverage of Timothee Chalamet. And I guess it could be likened to those of us who cover Taylor Swift in a similar way, but there are the lines, there are the Lines between their work and their personal lives and parents. Parasocial is honestly a term I also learned a few years ago when it was kind of being thrown at me as I am this fan of Taylor, and people are saying you had this parasocial relationship, and they say that to fans. And I think it. It carries a lot more weight than. Than it should be thrown around. You know what I mean? Like, it shouldn't be thrown around so lightly, I guess, is what I'm saying, because I do think that the term means that you don't understand, that you don't actually know this person. And I think that a lot of people and fans get lost in it, where they will listen to Taylor Swift songs and read her lyrics, and that's really where she speaks to her fans. And I think where most of her fans really identify with her, and they feel like, well, she understands that feeling and so do I, so we have that in common. And then it gets to a point where they think that they know her and can predict how. What she'll say and how she'll act, because they have felt similar feelings before. And I think in that part, that's where things start to go south, where it's like, you don't actually know this woman. We're lucky enough that she is a performer, is a celebrity in her. You know, she gives us what she wants to, and she has her own boundaries. And I think that some people, you know, they get a little greedy. And she has a song called I Can do it with a Broken Heart. Love that song. But in the song, she has a. She has a. Yeah, yeah. And in the song, she has a lyric where she talks about the crowd is chanting more. And I think it can be seen in two ways. One, of course, the crowd wants more, but it can also be seen as greedy and this, like, hunger for more from someone who is already giving her all.
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B
You know, doing whatever she can professionally, but hurting on the inside. I think that is a fascinating song because no matter what she was going.
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A
Through, and that it's upbeat, is kind of a funny juxtaposition. And I actually think this album that's coming out on Friday, the Life of a Showgirl, I think it's going to be almost an extended version of that mentality where it's getting through something as big as the Eras tour while also healing and changing yourself as a person. And Taylor Swift is. She's about to be 36 and I'm about to be 35, so I kind of feel like we're, you Know, I've grown up at the same time, sort of. So when I see these things and I see someone who is basically my age struggling behind the scenes but then putting on a show, it's relatable in its own way. So you. But relatable in the way that you kind of, you feel for her. Not like, oh, she's just like me. It's more of like a. I have sympathy now for this pop star and I'm going to accept whatever it is that we as fans are given. And you have to just remember she's a person.
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B
That's so interesting that you say that because, you know, there are things that you're embracing and that there are things that you're fighting, like to be a celebrity at that level. There's kind of an immortality to it. Like you truly are immortal. You truly are a superhero in so many ways. You know, part of it is you have enough money to insulate yourself, of course, and you can have.
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It's not even a teams of people.
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With, you know, shields walking you through Arrowhead Stadium.
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A
Fake cleaning carts. Yes.
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B
Yeah. And publicists who will fight the good fight on your behalf 24 hours a day. But then also you have your biology. Like as a 35, 36 year old woman, like all of the existential crises that go through the head of everyone in their 30s like you, you still can't fight that. Which, you know.
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A
Right. It doesn't matter who you are, it doesn't matter what you're doing. We all go through stages and phases of life and she just happens to be doing it on the biggest stage possible. And that's.
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B
I was an MTV MJ in the 90s. So like you and Taylor Swift, people who. Gen Xers who were my age when I started at MTV, I started at 20. Like there's a part of you that you know, like an 18 year old who was listening to 19 year old Taylor Swift, like there's a part of you who will always be 18, no matter what.
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A
Totally.
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And that's what is so beautiful about the human condition is like, that's why we, we love movies about high school.
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Like, because the high school nostalgia, nostalgia is, you know, it's powerful part of.
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Us like that will live forever. So when I post things about like dropping a child off at college, it's heartbreaking for people who grew up with me on mtv because they're like, oh my God, I am old.
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A
Yeah, like I said, right? Totally. It's like a reflection of, of. Oh, I, I've thought about People dropping their kids off at school. I never thought that I would be of the age where that would be possible for me as well.
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B
In college.
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A
Yeah. Yeah, right. No, completely. Like, like I said, I'm, I'm 34, turning 35, and I don't, I think about this often. Like, what age do I really feel? And I do kind of feel like I, I've always felt old for my age, and then now I think I'm finally settling, settling into it. But I worry in, like, the next five years, am I still going to be doing the same things I was doing when I was 35. And, you know, those are things to take into consideration. And I also have good friends, hopefully. Yeah. And I know that Taylor Swift has said something similar. Taylor, my close personal friend, has said something similar about, about feeling stuck at a certain age, you know, whether when you became famous or, or just, you know, when your life kind of takes off in a way that feels almost out of your control. And I think that, that, that's just something to, to grapple with as you get older. And again, it happens to her, it happens to us, happens to everybody.
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B
But also the intensity of fame, it's not something that we talk about a lot of because, you know, people want to look at celebrities and go, oh, I don't feel bad for you at all. Like, oh, you were traumatized by fame. I know.
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I hate people do that.
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But there, there really is something to. When everyone in your life treats you differently, don't go anywhere more Kennedy saves the world right after this.
- [11:23]
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This week on the Fox True Crime podcast, I'm joined by retired FBI Special agent Stacey Perkins as she discusses the bureau's Innocent Images initiative and the many child predators she has helped to bring down.
- [11:34]
C
Listen and follow now@FoxTrueCrime.com I'm Dana Perino.
- [11:39]
B
This week on Perino on Politics, I am joined by executive Vice President at Targeted victory, Matt Gorman.
- [11:45]
C
Listen and follow now@foxnewspodcast.com or wherever you.
- [11:50]
B
Get your favorite podcasts. Imagine how that affects you, like, totally. It's hard to know who you can trust. It's hard to know who's selling stories and who, who's judging you and who you can really be yourself with and who you really are. Because if everyone is treating you differently, it's like, you know, should I feel different completely?
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A
And you, you need to make sure that you have those people on your team or in your life that keep you grounded. And I think her parents do that for her. She's kind of said before in interviews. She's very close with both of her parents and her brother is. Is involved in her marketing for her music and stuff. So it really is like a family business. But I know, I know personally, it's like I'd want to keep all my best friends. Like, I have my best friends from high school, my best friends from college, and they keep me humble in every way as I should be. And I think that that is something that you want people to treat you like you are not like the famous pop star that you are. And I think that that's like Fergie.
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B
Said, I still go to Taco Bell. Drive thru. Raw as hell.
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A
Yeah.
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B
And like, those are the friends. And that's a queen deal.
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A
Yeah, exactly. And I think that that's. Yeah, it's just a. It's an interesting concept to think about. And if you sit and think about it long enough, I do think that those people who are like, oh, they're a celebrity, who cares? They. They're rich, they have everything, blah, blah, blah. But think about it from. Sit. Put yourself in those shoes, literally. And it's like, yeah, okay, I'll cry my piles of money, but also, I'm still crying. So what's. You know, that doesn't necessarily make it any better. It's just a different setting. And so I don't know. I. I feel bad when. When people say they don't want to feel bad for. For celebrities.
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B
No, but there is. There is something to it. Yes. They live charmed lives.
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Of course. Of course.
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You know, they. They have ways of insulating themselves that, you know, 99 of the people on this earth will. Will never have access to. But having said that, there's a reason that there is a high suicide rate for performers is, you know, because so much is demanded of you and when you feel like you're not living up to that. And one of the scariest things.
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Yeah.
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For someone who has been famous and I look at reality stars and I say, this is. Oh, my God, that fame going away, like, having been through that crucible, having been changed and then having to go back to a normal life.
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A
Well, reality star have it the worst because they. They get all of the fame and notoriety. They get all the hate. They get all, you know, some love if they're lucky. But then at the end of the day, it's like, oh, they were on a. They were on the Bachelor 10 seasons ago, and they're not rich and famous anymore, and nobody really cares what's going on. And that's when you know you were thrust into this light, you accepted the negativity, hopefully you got some positivity, and then you're just kind of thrown in the dumpster afterwards. It's like, all right, bye. Thanks for your time. And. And so if you are a celebrity, I would assume, obviously everyone wants to be famous forever once they become famous, but I would say that the opposite of fleeting fame would almost be harder.
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Yeah.
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Because it's like, well, you kind of got a taste of it. You didn't really reap the benefits, and now you're stuck.
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B
The one thing I will tell anyone who is trying to be famous, like, first of all, don't try to be famous. Second of all, use a stage name. So, yeah, so people don't. Because when you do become famous, like, I see that with people here, you know, it's like they become famous with their real names, and then it's. And then it's like, once your information is on the Internet, it's very personal after that. The parasocial stance. Tell me about Eminem's new documentary.
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Eminem, the. The rapper?
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Yes.
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Oh, so, you know, I haven't seen it yet, but I. I want to see. But it looks very interesting. I watched his. He did a, like a breakdown music video where it was kind of like him talking to himself. The younger version of himself was like AI or something. And it was kind of his older self confronting his younger self about some of the things he said or did or jokes he made at the time that weren't really okay. And he did it in a light and funny way. And I'm a big fan of Eminem. I think that he was, you know, he was the most famous guy at the time, and he was cool and. And yeah, he made some jokes. And I do feel like there. Some of it had, like, a little bit of a sexist tone at times. But now as a grown man with a fully grown daughter and. And a life, you know, he. He looks back and he's like, all right, yeah, maybe. Maybe I shouldn't have said that. Maybe I shouldn't have done that. But I think it takes a really a big person to admit that sometimes stuff you did in the early 2000s isn't a great look. And I assume the documentary has a lot to do with that.
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Grow and evolve and change. But we also have to extend grace to someone. So. Because, yeah, we all say and do stupid things when we're young. Very few of us have it documented in Grammy Award.
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A
Winning. Right. Grammy award winning. But even not even just that, like, I am so thankful all the time that I. I went through high school without social media. I. I didn't. Twitter came around right as I was graduating high school. Instagram didn't pop up until the end of college for me, so I really didn't have the pressure of phones in my face all the time. And I think I'd be a really different person if, like, in a bad way. If they were. I think I'd be very paranoid, very anxious, and I think that a lot of the kids growing up now have to deal with that, and it's. That in itself is a whole nother monster.
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B
I mean, it's sad that that kind of mental illness is built into adolescence.
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A
Completely and having to accept that that's the way things are. Like, I wish that weren't the case, but I know they're trying to, you know, change things.
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B
Parents of younger children have seen that, and they've seen an entire generation of kids grow up like that. And they're the ones who are clamping down on social media access to screens which ultimately will be good. Like, there are always course corrections.
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A
Yes. And I do believe that that's really important, especially now, because, you know, I can't put myself in the shoes of the kids that grew up like that and are now stuck like that and have that paranoia and have that feeling of, like, oh, my God, I don't want to. I don't want to look. Cringe online or something. Or even the parents that are my age that grow up constantly filming their kids and putting it online and whatever, and that's a whole nother conversation. But I do think that foresight is important, and a lot of people don't seem to have it, and I hope that they're learning.
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B
They go, well, everyone else has it. So.
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Right. That's. And that is ultimately what it is. It's Keeping up with the Joneses. It's. I'm posting. They posted their kid. I need to post my kid. Like, it just doesn't. You know, it's strange to wrap your head around when you think about it, but ultimately, yeah, what if. You know, what if one day your kid becomes famous, is lucky enough to have a talent, and they, you know, they become a superstar? But then someone goes back, right? Someone goes back, and you're 12 years old with your friends in a basement, and it's like, nobody. You know, those videos were never meant to see the light of day, and every video now sees the light of day. And so it's scary for sure.
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B
So Stan, like the, the term which I thought was for stalker fan. I didn't realize it was from Eminem.
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A
It's from Eminem. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was wondering why we're talking about Eminem. Makes total sense, Stan. Yeah. So the song Stan is about a fan of Eminem's who stalks him and eventually kills him, I think in the song. And it's a scary song and it's. It's almost like a. It's more like poetry, honestly. The song, I feel he sings a little bit, but it's more of a. Like an out loud reading of a letter from a fan to Eminem, basically.
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B
Talking like instead of a rap performance, it's more like spoken word.
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A
Yes. Thank you. And so. But I do think that now there's this term Stan culture, which I know is. Is really prevalent on Twitter. X. And the. I think the idea behind it is that these fans want to prove that they are the biggest fans and they know the most and they, they're tapped in and they understand. And that's where those lines between parasoci relationships and. And just being a fan start to get hazy. But I think that when you, when you start talking about Stan culture, it doesn't necessarily have a positive connotation. I think that it does seem a little intense sometimes. I think that you can be a fan, you can be a super fan, you can have fun with it, but once you cross over into that stand territory and if you are directly referencing Eminem's song, it's scary and it's stalkerish and it's strange. And I think that some people don't think that that's strange. They don't think it's weird to stand outside Taylor Swift's house and wait for her to come out, you know, because they know she's in there. Like that's crazy. You know, I mean, like that's crazy.
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B
Think Swifties are the most intense.
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Like they're very proud.
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B
They defend her.
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Yeah.
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And if anyone tries to bring her down, like they will, they'll attack.
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The stands will attack. That's like, that's not something I'm doing. I'm not sitting online and replying in comments and people are being mean, like, I don't have time for that. But there are people that do do that and they think that it's helping and whatever. I don't necess think it always is. I think that sometimes they take it too far and they say things that eventually give Swifties a bad name. We start to look crazy. And they, you know, marginalize us and it sucks. But ultimately, every big celebrity has a huge fan group that is just as rabid as the Swifties, I would say. Ariana Grande's fans are huge. Nick Minaj, they're the Arianators. I love them.
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B
I didn't know that.
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A
I love. I'm a big Ari, Stan, so I love her. Then they've got the Barbs. Nicki Minaj's fan base. They're. They're wild. The directioner is One Direction. The BTS Army. Oh, yeah, bts. So it really just depends on. On where you're looking for the fandom and their varying levels of. Of activity, I guess you would say.
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B
Yeah. Well, Kelly Keegan, thank you so much for being here.
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A
Thank you so much for having me. I feel like I could talk.
- [21:00]
B
I know. I want you to come back so.
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A
We can talk about more and more and more anytime.
- [21:03]
B
You're amazing.
- [21:03]
A
Thank you.
- [21:04]
B
People can find you at Barstool Sports.
- [21:06]
A
Yes. Where we at Barstool Sports. My usernames everywhere are Kelly Keegs and we have a podcast at Barstool called Taylor Watch and that is our Taylor Swift podcast with my co host, Gia.
- [21:16]
B
Well done, Kelly.
- [21:18]
A
Thank you so much.
- [21:18]
B
Thank you so much. This has been Kennedy Saves the World along with Kelly Keegan. I'm Kennedy. Listen ad free with a Fox News podcast plus subscription on Apple Podcasts and Amazon Prime. Members can listen to this show ad free on the Amazon music app. Oh, go ahead and leave me a review while you're there. I'd love to hear what you have to say.
- [21:46]
C
It's Will Tain Country. Watch it live at noon Eastern Monday through Thursday at foxnews. Com or on the Fox News YouTube channel. And don't miss the show. Listen and follow the podcast five days a week at foxnewspodcasts. Com or wherever you download your favorite podcasts.