← Kennedy Saves the World
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- [00:10]
Kennedy
Welcome to this episode of Kennedy Saves the World. It's the Kennedalia Book Club. Look at this. It's called It's Only Drowning by David Litt. And if you need a summer book to read, get this immediately. And if you don't again, I will find you. David Litt joins me now. You were an Obama speechwriter.
- [00:27]
David Litt
I was you.
- [00:28]
Kennedy
This book is so much fun to read. I didn't want to put it down. I don't say that about everything. But I enjoyed myself and I was laughing out loud because it's such an improbable story. And your writing is so honest because in the beginning of the book, you sound like such a snob.
- [00:44]
David Litt
Thank you. It's nice to meet you.
- [00:47]
Kennedy
I mean, this book is great. So I just set it up a little bit for people.
- [00:50]
David Litt
Yeah.
- [00:50]
Kennedy
So you are having. You are an in your head, Ivy League overthinker, which is fine.
- [00:57]
David Litt
Totally fair.
- [00:58]
Kennedy
Yeah. And these are all assessments that you have made of yourself.
- [01:01]
David Litt
Yes. It's weird to write a book about you changing. Right. This is a book, I think, really about me changing at least a little bit.
- [01:09]
Kennedy
And it's so inspiring. But you can't start out at the peak. You have to start out in the trough.
- [01:17]
David Litt
And so it means that whenever you talk about the book, people are like, so you. You kind of suck a little bit. And I'm like, well, fair enough. Yeah.
- [01:23]
Kennedy
But they have to get past the beginning because you were gripped with this kind of culturally shared anxiety that people went through during the pandemic. And you had such a great description of it. Cause you're like, at first it was really fun. It was like cookouts and wine. And then it turned into this gut wrenching anxiety because the politics had not gone your way, but the world was closed. And, you know, this work from home thing became very, very problematic for people after the short reset that people. Because people only needed a few weeks at home to like, learn how to make pavlova and reorganize their closet.
- [02:02]
David Litt
Okay, this is spooky because my wife did actually learn how to make pavlova and she. She really did get good at it.
- [02:06]
Kennedy
Yeah, Jackie sounds absolutely lovely. And so you were like, I need to do something different. And somehow you decided. And before Matt, your brother in law, enters the picture, although we had read about Matt, you decided that you might try surfing.
- [02:21]
David Litt
Well, it was this moment. And by the way, you said that it was sort of, you know, fun and wine and then anxiety. And that's true, but it was also anxiety and Wine. The wine was still there. Oh, yeah. Which is very different.
- [02:33]
Kennedy
The summer of 2020. Or do we. We really don't. It's a haze.
- [02:37]
David Litt
Well, and for me, also, the other thing I realized, I was, as a writer, working from home before it was cool and also working from home after it was cool. Okay. But what was, I think, so difficult about that moment was it was both the physical lockdown that we're talking about, but it was also the moment where it felt like no matter what your ambitions were in life, someone slammed the brakes on them. I mean, someone also being the virus, too. Right. But, like, we just. I think everyone went through that, and some people handled it better than others. Jackie, my wife, who we agree is great, she handled very well. And I think I'm really so happy that she did, because we couldn't have had two of me. That would have gone very poorly.
- [03:19]
Kennedy
See, I have an introverted child who did very, very well.
- [03:22]
David Litt
Oh, interesting.
- [03:23]
Kennedy
And was, like, reading books and learning languages and teaching herself how to bake things. And then I have an extroverted, very social child who had a very, very difficult time. And I really empathize with people who had a tough time after, you know, the beginning, which was fine. It really. And for kids who missed out on prom and graduation.
- [03:45]
David Litt
Yeah.
- [03:45]
Kennedy
And, you know.
- [03:47]
David Litt
No, I have younger cousins where they spent a year of college, except it wasn't college for them. And that is like, that. And it. And I totally recognize that by most standards, I was really lucky during the pandemic.
- [03:58]
Kennedy
So why did you. Why did you stumble into a surf shop? Is it because Jackie's brother, Matt. So, Matt, you set yourself up as being kind of this judgmental egghead. Right. And Matt sounds like the funnest stoner bro in the world that you would totally want to party with. Like, he's an electrician who surfs and plays electric guitar in the garage. And it's like, Matt just seems like a great guy, not necessarily political. Didn't want to get the vaccine during COVID which was kind of annoying to you. But the way you set the two of you up, it's like, man, I want to party. I want to be Matt, too.
- [04:36]
David Litt
I, like, I just want to point out that your descriptions of me are getting slightly more pejorative, like, slightly more insulting each time, so. Yeah, exactly. By the end of this, you have to button your button. Oh. Oh, no. Yeah. And we don't know each other that well, so I. So, yeah, I started surfing, I think, in part because Matt, my wife's Younger brother surfs. Now, originally, I didn't surf because Matt surfs because he. In my mind, you would ask him.
- [05:00]
Kennedy
About it, and he had horrible explanation.
- [05:03]
David Litt
Yeah, he's a crazy person. And he does crazy person things. He surfs, by the way. So we're talking about New Jersey. It gets cold in the water. It gets even colder. And he surfed all year round, and he would say, like, the best waves are in winter. And then he would tell me about.
- [05:17]
Kennedy
It in terms of size and shape. He's not wrong.
- [05:19]
David Litt
Yes. But in terms of being a human being who doesn't want to be in the ocean when it's colder than the inside of a fridge, I was thinking, this does not sound like, logical to me. And I will say, during the pandemic, there was this moment where I felt like I really started to wilt and he was really thriving.
- [05:38]
Kennedy
Okay.
- [05:39]
David Litt
And, you know, partly it was his job. Right. Everyone from New York moved to the Jersey. To the Jersey shore. He's an electrician.
- [05:45]
Kennedy
He needed to fix everything.
- [05:47]
David Litt
He needed more work than he'd ever had before. So part of it was professional. Absolutely. But part of it I felt was something else. So I was. I almost like, you know, how did you describe a judgmental egghead? So let's go with that. I felt like judgmental egghead that I was. I still. It forced me to say, wait a second. Matt knows something about the world that I don't. He may not know everything about the world that I don't, but there's something here that I can learn from people.
- [06:13]
Kennedy
And they take their systems apart and they figure out what are they doing. Right.
- [06:17]
David Litt
Yeah. And I think so much of what this book ends up being about, I mean, there's sharks and there's falling off surfboards, and that's important.
- [06:24]
Kennedy
But so much getting pinned down.
- [06:25]
David Litt
Getting pinned down below. Ye.
- [06:27]
Kennedy
Yes.
- [06:28]
David Litt
Which is bad. I mean, you act like in Spain, where it's like, oh, well, at least the food's good. No, if you're stuck under a wave, it does not matter that you're in Spain. It's just miserable. That's true. If you ever emerge, you have a variety of dining options. But, you know, so much of this book is about how you can learn from people even when they're different from you. And I think, like, that shouldn't actually be terribly novel. But in this world that we're living in right now, I actually am like, oh, I had to learn that lesson. And I think many of us, certainly as a society, I think we've forgotten that a little bit.
- [07:03]
Kennedy
Well, we also. It's very easy for us because, you know, you talked about some of the signs that you saw on Matt and on Matt's truck. And it's very easy for people to take one sign as an indicator of someone's entire identity, even if they don't mean it that way. And I think that we've all kind of become conditioned to do that. Like, if you follow certain people on social media, that means, like, you're an alt. Right. Nutjob. And if you. If you have a Bernie Sanders sticker on your Volvo, like, you probably wouldn't be that fun at a barbecue. So we. We have found ways to completely ostracize each other. So all of the signs that you are conditioned to unfollow and other. Matt had a bunch of them.
- [07:52]
David Litt
Yes, I do. I do have to just give a shout out to the people with Bernie Sanders stickers on their Volvos who. I know who are fun at barbecues. But I think that the thing that, in a way, we're actually talking about exactly this. Right. Which is. So I. I live in a bubble. Because we all live in a bubble these days, right? The thing I always say is, like, for Democrats, part of our bubble is self recrimination. Even when things are going well, we're always kind of worried. And that's part of what defines most people like me. And so we worry about the bubble. But. And I was looking at this, there was a study that came out where they looked at census tract data. And even within neighborhoods, most of us now gravitate toward people who think the way that we do, not just about politics, but about everything. And that's true for almost everybody. Not literally everyone, but almost everyone. And so one of the things that happens when you live in a bubble, which 98, 99% of us do these days, is it becomes very easy to think the worst of people.
- [08:52]
Kennedy
That's a great point.
- [08:53]
David Litt
So what you're describing is I saw a sticker on Matt's truck that turned out to not be, but looked a lot like one of the Punisher logos that a lot of militia groups have embraced and people who aren't militia groups.
- [09:06]
Kennedy
Too, which was not the nickname of the good surfer in the Jersey shoreline.
- [09:11]
David Litt
The Predator. Okay. Yeah. Because he had.
- [09:13]
Kennedy
I got those confused. I was like, oh, is the Punisher? And I was like, oh, no, no, no. He was the.
- [09:18]
David Litt
I didn't think about that when I should have not had such similar sounding.
- [09:21]
Kennedy
Oh, no, I loved your. I loved your nicknames. For other surfers. That was fantastic. Tilda Swinton. Like, I'm. I've. I've been in the lineup with Tilda Swinton, and I'm fat. Like, it's fascinating to see the same people every day.
- [09:34]
David Litt
Yes.
- [09:34]
Kennedy
Because you have to construct an architecture of their lives based on the little knowledge you have of the way they serve.
- [09:42]
David Litt
And it's so interesting because you can't construct it using all the details. You were talking about where we often put people into buckets unfairly these days. Right. You can't say, oh, you listen to this podcast. Oh, okay, you know, whatever. You drive this kind of car.
- [09:56]
Kennedy
I would have been the Fed rash guard. But I might start.
- [10:00]
David Litt
I think that would be quite interesting. And I could wear a. I think the Fed is really quite reasonable policy rash guard. And then we could surf together. And everybody else would be like, we think you're boring. And that's what their rash guards would say. We don't want to talk about fiscal policy loss.
- [10:16]
Kennedy
I'm not going to name drop here, but I absolutely am, because I think it brings us to a really important point, because you went on an odyssey, a difficult odyssey, as an adult. And as you point out, most people learn to surf, at least those who surf well, when they're like six, seven, eight years old.
- [10:33]
David Litt
Yeah. Eight is almost too old. Like seven and younger. Yeah.
- [10:36]
Kennedy
Older than 15. You're absolutely opposed. And. And I've been with a lot of surfers who've learned their vows. Like, they. They learn to surf as adults, vulnerable adult learners. Like, it's. It's difficult for them to surf, but they can still like you. It takes so much overcoming to not be good at surfing, to just stand up for the first time. Like, it's really, really rough. But we. I think this book is important because we don't do enough of that. We don't do enough of things that are absolutely humiliating and there. But with so much upside. Like, yes, it's humiliating, it's degrading, it's embarrassing. But then when you actually catch your first wave, it changes your entire soul. The. So Kelly Slater told me in, like, 2002, 2003. And he said this, like, without irony, like, he wasn't kidding, but he was like, if only George Bush and Saddam Hussein would go out and surf together, like, this whole thing would be figured out. And there is absolutely something to that. Like, there is something to the joy and the struggle and all of that. That takes us out of our political boxes, which are like veal pens.
- [11:50]
David Litt
Yeah. First of all, I just want to say you started this by saying, I don't want to name drop. And then by the end, you drop the name of not just a famous surfer, but the most legendarily famous surfer of all time. So that is an excellent, an excellent name drop. And I'm jealous that you got to talk to Kelly Slater about anything surf related. I think there is what you're describing, you know, and it's interesting, right, because I'm like, yeah, of course. A, the feeling of humiliation, B, the feeling of transcendence, and C, the feeling of if more people could feel the first two things, the world would be a different and better place. But I also think what's, what's interesting to me about this is as I've talked to surfers about it, they immediately get it, right? No matter when you started, there's something about it that you get. But also, when you write a book, I feel like you're always signing up to hear a certain type of people's stories. And what I hear is everybody who has a friend or a family member they have trouble speaking to now because of politics. But also the thing that was really hard to do do, that you tried and you knew you were never going to get great, but you learned that it was worth trying anyway. And I think so many of us have that. And if you don't, I highly recommend finding it, whether it's surfing or anything else. I mean, you know this, right? Like, I don't really recommend surfing because it's crowded, right. I'm like, we don't need more surfers, you know, let's go take up woodworking. But, like, but I do think that for all of us, and it's really hard as an adult and exactly because of the thing you talked about, which is if you're at a place where you're like, I kind of know who I am. There's so much potential for embarrassment. There's so much of a sense of like, I worked really hard, so I'm not making a fool of myself. I have a sense of who I am in the world. And now I'm gonna go basically just be, be, like almost feel childish again.
- [13:33]
Kennedy
Yes.
- [13:33]
David Litt
And at first I admit I was like, this sucks.
- [13:38]
Kennedy
Yeah.
- [13:38]
David Litt
And I don't know why I keep doing it. And then I, like, looking back, I was like, I'm so glad I stuck with it anyway.
- [13:43]
Kennedy
Yes. But by the end of it, like, you were surfing, like, really, really serious waves. Like, and it takes a lot to get from just getting from beginner to intermediate, like, actual, like, bridging. Because a lot of people like, oh, I'm an intermediate surfer. But if you talk to an honest surf coach, like, no, you're not.
- [13:59]
David Litt
Yeah.
- [13:59]
Kennedy
Because you can't go out by yourself, and your wave selection is horrible. Like, you cannot see the peak, know when to paddle, know which direction. And it takes so long to get from. I'm a really great beginner to. I can actually go out by myself and pick my own waves, like that chasm. But you actually, like, you went to some, like, insane surf spots and actually rode, like, really, really difficult waves. Like, not on flat days.
- [14:28]
David Litt
Yeah. My goal, once I realized I was hooked. Right. This was not going away. This new. Not just a hobby.
- [14:35]
Kennedy
Blue Crush without irony, which I also do whenever I'm in a bad mood.
- [14:38]
David Litt
Yes, right. Exactly. When you start to say, okay, Blue Crush is my story. Right. Like, clearly, obviously, then I said, all right, I want a goal, because I'm a goal kind of person. And originally, I will say I was like, I want to get barreled in a year. And then I was like, it turns out that's not possible, at least not for someone like me, unless I abandoned my, you know, wife and family and job and life. And that wasn't. Wasn't going to happen. But I said, what would be worth trying to do? What would be something that I honestly don't know that I could do? And that really scares the crap out of me. And it was the idea of riding an overhead wave on the North Shore. Right. The North Shore of Hawaii is really Mecca of surfing. And in part, that's because it's consequential. Right. Like, it is legitimately dangerous, and it's more. And it's the open ocean power. And I only found this out once Matt and I got there. But that feeling of a wave that has traveled thousands of miles and it hasn't run into anything until you. That is a lot of ocean behind you.
- [15:36]
Kennedy
That's a lot.
- [15:37]
David Litt
It's really scary. And so I. But, you know, the other thing that I learned from that, I'm really glad that I got to do it. But more than that, I was proud of surfing. You know, what, for me was a big wave, consequential wave. Even more than that, I was proud of the way that I got there and that I would not have gotten there without Matt, who. If you had told me, like, a couple years ago, you know, Matt is going to be the person who helps you achieve this thing that you. Is so important to you and that you can't really imagine yourself doing.
- [16:06]
Kennedy
Yeah.
- [16:07]
David Litt
I'd be like, okay, this is some weird, like, dream. It's not a nightmare. It's not a good dream. It's just like a weird, like, do you have a fever? Right. Like, this is a very strange experience. And that, I think, was. It made the experience so much more special.
- [16:19]
Kennedy
But you, like, even when you talk about putting on a wetsuit for the first time, and you said it's like when a python swallows a goat.
- [16:26]
David Litt
Yeah. You know those YouTube videos and I'm the goat.
- [16:29]
Kennedy
It made me laugh so hard because everyone has also been in that position.
- [16:33]
David Litt
Oh, my gosh.
- [16:33]
Kennedy
Where you haven't put on your wetsuit for a while and you're like this shrunk and it's like. Actually, it didn't.
- [16:38]
David Litt
Can I give you the one surf tip that I actually think almost no one knows?
- [16:41]
Kennedy
Yes.
- [16:41]
David Litt
Dog poop bags.
- [16:43]
Kennedy
Yes. You put them on your feet.
- [16:44]
David Litt
Yeah, yeah. And they go right out. I bought, like, an expensive $20 dog poop bag originally and then lost it immediately because that's who I am. But then I realized, because we got a dog, that if you just use a dog poop bag and a wetsuit.
- [16:56]
Kennedy
Because they fit around your leg better than the bags used to get limes at the grocery store and. Yeah. And they have more integrity if you surf the day before and it's a little wet.
- [17:06]
David Litt
Yeah. I kind of wish you'd pretended you didn't know that just to make me feel good, but I'm glad that you did.
- [17:10]
Kennedy
That's a great tip.
- [17:11]
David Litt
Yeah. Well, you know, whatever. I've learned it myself.
- [17:14]
Kennedy
No, this is. So where is your relationship with Matt now? Are you dating? Is that weird?
- [17:21]
David Litt
I was. Well, it's weird because I'm married to his sister. I was told by him that his girlfriend, when she saw the first copy of the book. Sam.
- [17:30]
Kennedy
That's right.
- [17:31]
David Litt
Yeah. She read certain passages in, like, a sexy voice just to tease him. Because it is. It's about two guys becoming friends. And it does feel a little like a rom com in that sense. Right. Yes. Like, and I. And I will say when I was working on the book, and it's, you know, it's interesting writing a memoir because it's a true story, but it's still a story. You have to think about what the beats are, where it goes.
- [17:52]
Kennedy
It has to have a narrative. And that's what was so joyous about reading it, is there were surprises, there were right turns, there were quick shifts, but you had somewhere in mind and I was like, oh, my God, I have to know what happens next.
- [18:08]
David Litt
Well, and that, to me, is right. Surfing is hard. Writing is hard. Doing both, it's hard. But it's so worth it because I'm always like, that's the stuff I like to read, you know?
- [18:17]
Kennedy
Yes.
- [18:18]
David Litt
And so when I was working on this, honestly, at the end, I was like, I better go back and, like, watch some rom coms just to see where the beats go. Yeah. Even though, you know, like, guy. I mean, guys becoming friends, it turns out we talked about how hard surfing is. I sometimes say that the only thing harder than learning to surf in my 30s was making a new friend as a guy in his 30s.
- [18:38]
Kennedy
And even your wife asking, oh, are you and Matt friends now?
- [18:41]
David Litt
Yeah. She was very confused.
- [18:42]
Kennedy
Why would you say that?
- [18:43]
David Litt
It's so weird.
- [18:44]
Kennedy
No, we just surf. He's like, your brother.
- [18:47]
David Litt
God. You want to hear something weird? The first time I said to Matt that we were friends, right. Which, like, again, it feels like it defined the relationship, even though it's obviously, like, guys hanging out. But it is. It's hard as a guy. And it was actually nice to write a book because I called him at one point, and it was almost. The book was almost done, and I said, you know, this is, like, just so you know, I'm gonna include, like, some of the conflict between us or some of the times when we, like, didn't really get along so much.
- [19:13]
Kennedy
It was, like, conflict. And it's like, yeah, you were a. In Santa Cruz. Okay.
- [19:18]
David Litt
Yeah.
- [19:18]
Kennedy
And you got me sick.
- [19:19]
David Litt
Right? Well. And he was. He was like, are you gonna talk about the frozen pizza incident? And I was like, I am gonna talk about the fro pizza incident. But I was also like, but really, it's a book about us becoming friends. And that was nice because it gave me a, like, we're still like, straight dudes way of being like, we're friends. Right. And he was like, okay, great. I was like, cool, we're friends. But it was interesting. Like, I never would have used, like, the F word around another guy otherwise. So it was actually really. I think so. Am I just particularly repressed? I don't know.
- [19:46]
Kennedy
You're talking. I was. As a parent, I was relieved when I could start swearing in front of my children, so.
- [19:51]
David Litt
Oh, I meant the friends word. Oh, no, no. I was like, can we swear on your podcast a little bit?
- [19:56]
Kennedy
Okay.
- [19:57]
David Litt
Yeah. I would say. Right. Like, that's not. Although Matt doesn't swear a lot. I just realized that.
- [20:01]
Kennedy
So. So that's the Thing like, Matt likes to ride his motorcycle 100 miles per hour. Like, he, he doesn't care about sharks. He thinks sharks are pretty cool. Like, he, he wanted to surf in the zone where there were a bunch of seals and seals. Like, especially if you're close to the mouth of a river in Northern California. Sharks like, yes, please. That's our hometown buffet. We love it. And Matt's like, yeah, let's go there.
- [20:24]
David Litt
Right?
- [20:25]
Kennedy
So all of those things would make it seem like he's a stoner or he's a drunk. And when you guys are on the road, you're like, I really want a beer. And he's like, nah, man, I gotta, gotta maintain the temple. And he gets up at 4:30 in the morning and does calisthenics on the beach.
- [20:39]
David Litt
Yeah, it was fascinating to me. So first of all, I think Matt definitely had like a Rebel Without a Cause phase. But it kind of ended around the time I met him. I met him in 2012, so about a little more than 10 years ago. And so I don't know as much about that. Sometimes he'll tell me a story and I'm like, oh, okay, this explains a lot, right? Like, like at one point he was telling me about like the fights he got into in high school. Okay. But I think one of the. He really, like, is a super responsible person. I feel like you were like, he's fun. And I'm like, no, he's responsible. Like, actually kind of both, right. Like, he. But he's very disciplined. And I actually think it was an interesting moment where, where that kind of cultural shift in men was becoming coded, right? Like the idea of being sober. They eat weights and eat protein, right?
- [21:25]
Kennedy
Like, oh, they're alt, right. They're Nazis.
- [21:28]
David Litt
Well, and I think it was a moment of like, that was changing. And it was interesting doing this in the backdrop because I was like, this is. And this is not a political book, right. I do think some people will read it and be like, this is about a heroic electrician and his annoying brother in law. And some people, you know, my friends with the Bernie stickers and the Volvos might read it and say, this is about a heroic former speechwriter and his, you know, and his crazy brother in law. But I think it was. I found myself in the middle of this and like, you're saying, right. Found myself saying, it's not that I agree with Matt about everything. It's not that I'm like, kumbaya about this stuff. I don't think I agree with Kelly Slater that If like George W. Bush and Saddam had just gone surfing, he was coming, it all would have been fine.
- [22:08]
Kennedy
It was so sweet. I so appreciated the impassion and deep belief that he has and the thing he loves most in the world and the ability, because it has given him so much, the ability for that to somehow transcend geopolitics and bring people together who are on the opposite sides of a military conflict. Don't go anywhere. More Kennedy Saves the World right after this.
- [22:35]
David Litt
Listen to the all new Bret Baer podcast featuring common ground in depth talks with lawmakers from opposite sides of the aisle, along with all your Bret Bear favorites like his all star panel and much more. Available now@foxnewspodcasts.com or wherever you get your podcasts. And I think the, like, I would say, you know, I'm not a foreign policy guy, but as a matter of foreign policy, you know, you might want to workshop that one.
- [22:58]
Kennedy
Yeah.
- [22:58]
David Litt
As. But as a surfer, I'm like, no, I totally get that. Like, actually they should, they should totally gone surfing together. And I think the. What I learned about some of those divides. Right. Even as I saw how real they are and how meaningful they are in ways that I think are, you know, honestly, like shaping our country right now, but also learning that they don't have to mean everything. And I think those two holding both of those at the same time. Right. Being honest about, you know, I mean, we've got different rash guards when it comes to the Federal Reserve. But that doesn't, that doesn't mean everything.
- [23:26]
Kennedy
Would get more high fives in the lineup.
- [23:28]
David Litt
Definitely you.
- [23:29]
Kennedy
Yeah, I think so.
- [23:30]
David Litt
I think for a variety of reasons. But I think you're rash guard, which was an interesting thing for me. Right. Like, you know, I don't know what the normal equivalent of a the Fed is smart monetary policy rashguard is in the rest of life. But I would say I spend most of my time with people who feel that way. And it was interesting to be in a space that was at the very least, you know, like very diverse in terms of what people think. And going back to Tilda Swinton, the nickname, not actual Tilda Swinton, might have been her. Maybe could have been.
- [23:58]
Kennedy
No makeup looks different.
- [23:59]
David Litt
That's a very good point. Can you imagine if I wrote a memoir and I'd been surfing with Tilda Swinton and I barely mentioned it just.
- [24:04]
Kennedy
Because I didn't know your book signing on the show was like. Yeah, actually, David, I have to tell you.
- [24:09]
David Litt
Yeah. The one I'm really worried about is I haven't seen the Predator since the book came out.
- [24:14]
Kennedy
Oh, no.
- [24:15]
David Litt
And I'm worried he's gonna be a little mad, but we'll see.
- [24:18]
Kennedy
Have you seen Sam the Hammer?
- [24:20]
David Litt
Sam Hammer?
- [24:21]
Kennedy
Sam Hammer is even better than Sam the Hammer.
- [24:24]
David Litt
I haven't seen Sam Hammer.
- [24:26]
Kennedy
What about Katie?
- [24:28]
David Litt
So she works at Glide, which is down the street. So in the book I will also.
- [24:32]
Kennedy
Say, is she still there?
- [24:32]
David Litt
Yeah, she's still there. It's not her real name, but I was pretty good. Sam Hammer is his real name. Because I figured, gotta be.
- [24:39]
Kennedy
Yeah, he's like Sam Champion.
- [24:41]
David Litt
Right. Also, like, if your name is Sam Hammer, and I've never met Sam Hammer, this is like, a local surf star in New Jersey, right? Because you're like, California surf stars are almost always, like, national or international. If you're out there in New Jersey, we have, like, local heroes. So if you talk to surfers, they might know Sam Hammer, Right. Crazy Michael, who runs a surf shop in Belmont.
- [25:00]
Kennedy
I loved his advice to you, because it wasn't advice at all.
- [25:03]
David Litt
Well, it was. Right. That's the crazy thing about surfing. So much terrible advice turns out to be good advice. Where he was like, you know, his advice to me was, go out and get your ass kicked.
- [25:13]
Kennedy
Yeah, it sucks. And you have to pay your dues.
- [25:15]
David Litt
La, la, la. And it gets back to the. What we were talking about, about the sort of diversity of views in the lineup, where it generally tends to be a group of people who have to accept. Then it's like, I don't know, we're just gonna figure it out. And so I think it does tend to attract people or force you to become someone who's a little bit more. How to put this. Comfortable with the fact the world is a very uncertain place. And I think that's something. No matter what else you believe about life, all of us feel that uncertainty right now. And I do think that's something surfing really helped me with.
- [25:49]
Kennedy
But I think that's what's forced our politics, is the need to control that and the need to control our world. And somehow, if we have enough confirmation bias and, you know, we feel that we have more arrows in our quiver. Like, we win and we win by being in control of everything. And that is not necessarily the case. And I. You're absolutely right. Like, it is so much healthier to give that up for a moment and give over to something that otherwise we are paralyzed by fear. And that's not just politics. Like, that's everything. That's, like caring about someone so much that you don't want anything bad to happen to them and that that fear, when that is the overriding thing, then it's so much healthier to have something like surfing, which allows you to overcome that in one aspect, because so much of your book, it transcends the actual surfing. And then it goes into your waking civilian life and allows you to make different choices about what you might do with your future that otherwise you might not have.
- [26:49]
David Litt
Yeah. And I will also say, I think it helped me understand some of the bigger issues in our country that you were just talking about a little bit better. Right. For example, I do think that it's really important that if you believe in good government. Right. That you make the case not that government is going to control your life, but that government's going to allow you to take control of your own life if it's done right now, that's a big if. We got different rash guards, that's okay. But I think that that's. It helps me understand where people might come who have a different view. Again, we're talking about how easy it is to think the worst of people. And so often these days if someone disagrees with you, you say, oh, the reason you disagree with me is because. And then the worst possible explanation, right, because we're often hearing about each other from people who like, not directly. And it's one of, you know, it's one of the things, right. Like as an example, I think generally most of the news I get or most of the information I get about Republicans comes from Democrats or, you know, at least Democrats are people who are not Republicans. And most of the news that most Republicans get about Democrats comes from Republicans or people who are not Democrats. And so it's not really surprising that we tend to think the worst of each other so often. But I think it's important to do our best, even if we're not like, controlling it, but to do our best to break free from that. And it's also more interesting and more.
- [28:11]
Kennedy
Fun, but also find, like, again, going back to this, like, there's so much more that we have in common. I truly believe that. And, and being a parent helped me see that and experience that. Like, that is, that is like being a mom and worrying about your kids and trying to do the right thing. Like that is cross cultural. It doesn't matter how much money you have or where you were born or where your family's from. Like, that is the most universal thing that I have found. And I think there are more universals out there which Actually, it makes it safer and more fun to make fun of people who have a slightly different worldview, because you realize that we all want the same thing, essentially. So therefore, most people are not a threat, too.
- [28:58]
David Litt
Yeah, I think that's. You know, it's so true. Where there's so much energy that goes into trying to convince us that we. Not just that we have nothing in common, but that that means that we're, like, on different teams. And I think that's the part where it's like, I am really. I thought when I started serving with Matt that I'd be like, oh, we're totally similar. Right? We're the same. No, we're not. We still have nothing in common.
- [29:22]
Kennedy
That's great.
- [29:22]
David Litt
And I like. Matt and I have talked about this all the time, but we talk about it. And also it's interesting. And you were talking about fun. And I think one of the things that I learned that I think is really, like, infused in the book. It's not just that at the end, but throughout the book is that, like, it's not just a matter of, are you a better person if you live this way? Whatever, Whatever. Just it's. Life is more fun. Right. Life is short. You might as well live it the best possible way.
- [29:44]
Kennedy
Absolutely.
- [29:45]
David Litt
And I feel like one of the things that this book is about is how I learn to live in a way that just makes me happier as well as makes me, you know, a better person in the world or whatever. Put that stuff aside. I'm having more fun, which I think is important for you.
- [29:58]
Kennedy
Yes. That's amazing. And that will. That will lend itself to other aspects of your life.
- [30:04]
David Litt
I hope so.
- [30:04]
Kennedy
Did you run for office?
- [30:06]
David Litt
I did not.
- [30:07]
Kennedy
Are you still thinking about it?
- [30:09]
David Litt
I feel like the thing people say when anyone asks if you run for office is like, no, who would ever do that? And I think I might one day. But I didn't. I was thinking about it very briefly. I don't know. Yeah. And I ended up not doing it. Although I was very proud that Matt said he would vote for me if I ran. But I. You know, to me, I feel like I've been. You know, I got into politics because I was inspired by President Obama because I believe in public service. And now I do other stuff. For the most part, I'm still kind of politics adjacent sometimes, but I think it is really. These are important moments. So the way I would put it is I have a lot of friends who have run for office or are in office, and I really admire that. I Think that if you are. If you do it for the right reasons, which is not a given, but if you do it for the right reasons, I think that's a really noble thing to do. And frankly, part of the problem that I think everyone in America can agree on, except for people who are, like, currently politicians, is that we could use more people running for office for the right reasons, which is one reason I didn't end up doing it. This one, what I write about in the book, because when I really stopped and thought about the question myself, I was like, I don't think if I did this now, it would be for the right reasons. I think it would be kind of ambition monster stuff. And that doesn't feel right. And I wouldn't have realized that.
- [31:26]
Kennedy
Does that sound like the David whose voice now lives in my head? After reading this book, will you ever admit you're a good surfer?
- [31:33]
David Litt
I am. No, because I'm not. I'm not really. Like, I am a really good Val. Right? You used that phrase earlier. Vulnerable, adult learner. Like, I am a really. Like. If you put a bunch of Vals in the water, I can out valve many of them.
- [31:49]
Kennedy
I love the Vals. I love surfing with the Vals. There's no shame in my game.
- [31:53]
David Litt
But I, you know, I have not yet got. The closest I came to getting barreled was this winter. Matt and I were out. It was like February, I think, in Jersey. In Jersey, it was like. Yeah, it was like 45 degree water or something.
- [32:06]
Kennedy
Do you have the little lobster mitts when you're.
- [32:08]
David Litt
I do, yeah, I have the lobster mitts or the full mittens. And you know, the full. Like, it's like an astronaut costume. And the only problem with that is it's surprisingly warm. Then the moment you fall, and if you're me, you do a lot of falling, the water immediately gets through whatever tiny gap is in the wetsuit, and you discover just how cold 45 degree water is. And then you get the worst ice cream headache of your entire life. Except you don't even get ice cream. Like, that is. So I'm gonna use my second curse word, allotted. That's so unfair. To have an ice cream. To have an ice cream headache with no ice cream. I feel like that's gotta be a metaphor for something. Yeah, but we were out, and so the closest I've gotten to getting barreled was I got into the barrel and then I was like, oh, I'm doing it. And then the. The wave just kind of curled up and I was. I'm really glad that I have enough instincts at this point that I covered my face without thinking about it, because the board hit me straight in the forearms, which would have been straight in, but I was still like, you know. And Matt, afterward, I was like, did you see that? He's like, yeah, you got. I mean, you got technically barreled, like, for all of half a second.
- [33:12]
Kennedy
You didn't get out for that. Most times people don't see it.
- [33:15]
David Litt
No, it's really nice. Like, something that I have always appreciated is, like, he's always. And I don't know, like, if he listens to this, he's gonna, like, nah, I don't know what you're talking about. But he's always been, like, proud of.
- [33:25]
Kennedy
Me when I. I bet he's a subscriber.
- [33:27]
David Litt
I mean, I'll. I'll send him anything, even if he's not. But it, you know, it's like that feeling that. It's like that he's, like, proud of those. Those little achievements I have when I've been surfing. Or sometimes just like a little surprised, like, the way you.
- [33:41]
Kennedy
That's the great thing about it. It's like every milestone you had, you were so stoked.
- [33:47]
David Litt
Yeah.
- [33:47]
Kennedy
Like, truly. That's the best. How many boards do you have now?
- [33:52]
David Litt
I have. You know what? I can give you a number. But while I think of the number, the real way you measure boards is I have enough boards that Jackie has told me if I buy a new board I have, it's one in, one out. I have to sell a board. If I. That's the number of boards. Think it's seven, but. But it's. It's the one in, one out being imposed by one spouse. That is the true number, I think. You know, as a surfer, how many boards do you have?
- [34:15]
Kennedy
Well, I had to leave several behind in California because of the fire, which was heartbreaking. But I did bring my favorites out, and so that's four.
- [34:26]
David Litt
Okay.
- [34:27]
Kennedy
But one of those has a foam top, so I'm gonna have to throw that away too. It's sad.
- [34:31]
David Litt
Yeah.
- [34:32]
Kennedy
But my favorite board, I went into a surf shop on PCH in 2021, and I met a person at the surf shop who was great. And, you know, it's like. Because you can go in and people can be snobs and judgmental and, you know, not judgmental eggheads, but judgmental like, you're not even worth my time because I can tell looking at you that you suck at surfing. And I like the wonderful thing about being in your 50s is you do not care what people think of you or you're surfing at all whatsoever. And so I went, I was like, I want a mom board. Like, I like a shorter, responsive board, but I hate that I have to paddle so much on a short board, so please give me something. And it's like, it's got, it's, it's kind of channeled and thick and wide, but still pointy.
- [35:17]
David Litt
Yeah.
- [35:17]
Kennedy
And it is still responsive. And that's my favorite.
- [35:19]
David Litt
That's cool. No, I do feel like one downside of surfing is then all you want to do is like talk boards and anyone else in your life is like, when does this stop?
- [35:28]
Kennedy
That's why you have to hang out with more people.
- [35:30]
David Litt
Exactly. Then you're like, well, you, the problem is you. Right. Like, if you don't want to talk about boards non stop, you know, I don't think I'm the problem here. But no, I think, did the, did the boards, did they survive the fire? Like, are you going to get them back?
- [35:42]
Kennedy
They did, but they're cracked. So they had enough crackage that lead and you don't want your face near lead.
- [35:49]
David Litt
Yeah, that was very sad. I don't think I knew that, but I think I knew that. Yeah, no, it's. But you were talking about judgmental surf shop owners. And I will say, like the ones it's nice in Jersey, it's a little weirdly, it's more chill than California. Even though it's not a chill place.
- [36:04]
Kennedy
Yeah, it's, it's not. And especially like, for example, I love this so much. One of my best friends, she was dating her now husband in 2001 and so we were out surfing and she was like, I don't know if I can be with him. And I was like, why? And I was like, he seems like such a great guy. Like, he's so nice and attentive and you know, he's got a good job and he's really cool and he wants to learn so much about the world. And she goes, he surfs like an inlander. And I was like, she's a really good surfer. No matter what she says, she's such a great surfer.
- [36:38]
David Litt
That's pretty funny.
- [36:39]
Kennedy
And from that moment on I'm like, I know, I totally surf like an inlander.
- [36:43]
David Litt
Yeah, I just had the same thought. I was like, yep, inlander. Well, but to me, my theory is that Californians tend to be more chill in their lives and so surfing is an outlet for all of aggression.
- [36:53]
Kennedy
Yeah. Because they can't Pretend. They have to pretend all the time that, like, everything's great. Man, this is the best. Have the best day ever. Blessings. And really inside, like, I want to hurt you and eat your children.
- [37:04]
David Litt
So I'll go surfing. And then New Jersey is the opposite where, like, if you drive around New Jersey and you ever do anything wrong, you will get politely, but not so politely honked at. And then in the water, it's really chill. So I think it's almost like the mirror image. And so I've had good. Like, my. The surf shop owners in my life have been really nice to me. But I will say it was really interesting that, you know, I would say in most of my life, just if you look at my resume or me on paper, Right. Like, in this world where it's like, the establishment and people who are not in the establishment, I'm definitely, at least compared to Matt, you would be like, oh, David's in the establishment. Whatever that. Whatever that means.
- [37:40]
Kennedy
Yeah, you want to make it bigger.
- [37:42]
David Litt
So in my world, I'd say better, but. But the other. But then, you know, when I. In surfing, it's the opposite. Right. But there is an establishment. Yeah, but I'm. I. But it was. I'm definitely not part of it. And so it was interesting where I will say some of my, like, feelings about the sort of surf world lean much more libertarian because I'm like, all right, you guys are all trying to control everything, you know, And I get that. In a way, even though it hasn't really changed my policy views necessarily, I have a deeper understanding we'll still be.
- [38:18]
Kennedy
Here when they do.
- [38:18]
David Litt
Okay. And vice versa. And that, I think, is the important. The important thing with all of this. Right. Is like. But I do think it's like, you know, to be able to have things in. In common that are not political makes it easier to just be able to, like, have normal conversations.
- [38:34]
Kennedy
Yes.
- [38:35]
David Litt
And normal conversations can include disagreement, and they can include stuff where it's like, this matters.
- [38:40]
Kennedy
Absolutely. So I. I was just at Freedom Fest, and one of the things that I said to everybody there was like, we are going to have massive policy disagreements, and we have to stop acting like we're homogenous because we don't have to be. Like, we want personal freedom in our own lives. That doesn't mean, like, that is groupthink. That is the opposite of individual liberty is thinking or saying what someone else tells you to say by virtue of them saying it. Like, that runs counter to what libertarianism is supposed to be. And it's Fine. To have policy disagreements on things like abortion and immigration and all of that stuff. And it doesn't make the other person who holds the opposite view a bad person.
- [39:22]
David Litt
Yeah. I think we're more than our viewpoints, and I think that's. That's important. And again, it's like, that shouldn't really be worthy of a podcast episode, let alone a book. But these days, it kind of is. I think, at least I hope people are. At the end of the podcast episode, they were like, yeah, that was worthwhile. Otherwise, why did you listen to the whole thing?
- [39:37]
Kennedy
Even Kat Timf has a wonderful book called I Used to like youe Until. And it's all about the people who have tried to ostracize her or get mad at her because, you know, of her politics or where she works. Like, sure, you know, I work at Fox News, but my daughter goes to a public high school. And it's really funny because when I go in there, like, there are some people there who really don't like where I work, and therefore, they really don't like me. And I'm like, calm down. Like, our kids all have to take the Spanish Regents, you know, it's like, yeah, well.
- [40:08]
David Litt
And I think there was probably a time, right. Like when I started surfing around that time before I was serving that I don't think I would have gone on a Fox News podcast because I would have been like, that seems I would just be wary of it. Right. It's like. And, you know, and now I'm so sad that I did, is my point. That was. That's where I wanted to get to with this. I was like, this was all a huge mistake.
- [40:31]
Kennedy
You're taking back your boat.
- [40:32]
David Litt
Yeah, that's right.
- [40:34]
Kennedy
Well, continued success. At some point, I want to hear from Matt.
- [40:38]
David Litt
Yeah.
- [40:39]
Kennedy
I want to hear his perspective on the book and his politics, which I think are really fast, and if he's developed them or if he considers himself to be completely apolitical and just a guy who wants to do his own thing, who listens to Joe Rogan. And best of luck with you and your wife and your political aspirations.
- [40:56]
David Litt
Well, thank you.
- [40:57]
Kennedy
And if you lean more libertarian and you go and shoot guns and stuff in New Jersey, I will vote for you.
- [41:04]
David Litt
Okay.
- [41:05]
Kennedy
I have New Jersey, but I'll find a way.
- [41:08]
David Litt
Okay. No, I don't. I don't own a gun anymore, but I bought one when I was 22 to try to hunt squirrels. Went terribly. Yeah.
- [41:13]
Kennedy
Yeah. They're the little wily bastards.
- [41:15]
David Litt
Yeah, I got Lyme disease. That's the only. No squirrels.
- [41:18]
Kennedy
Oh, from ticks?
- [41:19]
David Litt
Yeah, not from a squirrel. The squirrel got to me. I mean, maybe the tick came from a squirrel. Anyway, that's a different story.
- [41:25]
Kennedy
All right, well, David Lett, this is it's only drowning. There's praise from Judd Apatow and Laird Hamilton, who was awesome, and the book is fantastic. So again, if you need an amazing summer read that might accidentally inspire you to surf, I would get this book immediately. Thank you for being a part of the podcast.
- [41:44]
David Litt
Thank you for having me. This was so much fun.
- [41:45]
Kennedy
Toes on the nose, bros.
- [41:46]
David Litt
Absolutely.
- [41:47]
Kennedy
Whale tails. Ms. Aspen Kennedy saves the World. Along with David Litt, I'm Kennedy. Listen ad free with a Fox News podcast plus subscription on Apple Podcast and Amazon prime, members can listen to this show ad free on the Amazon music app. Oh, go ahead and leave me a review while you're there. I'd love to hear what you have to say. You've been listening to Kennedy Saves the World on the Fox News Podcast Network.
- [42:16]
David Litt
I'm Janice Dean. Join me every Sunday as I focus on stories of hope and people who are truly rays of sunshine in their community and across the world. Listen and follow now@foxnewspodcast.com.