Are some ANIMAL FARM adaptations more equal than others? With ANDY SERKIS

Summary

Podcast Summary: Kermode & Mayo’s Take

Episode: Are some ANIMAL FARM adaptations more equal than others? With ANDY SERKIS

Date: July 23, 2026
Hosts: Mark Kermode & Simon Mayo
Special Guest: Andy Serkis (director of the new Animal Farm)
Primary Theme: Exploring the new adaptation of George Orwell’s Animal Farm, its themes, modern relevance, and the challenges of adapting the work for film and different audiences. Plus, reviews of current releases and listener correspondence.

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Overview

This episode revolves around the new animated film adaptation of Animal Farm by Andy Serkis. Kermode and Mayo dig into the film’s intentions, the history of adapting Orwell’s allegory, shifting political contexts, and audience suitability. There’s also an in-depth interview with Serkis himself, chart review, discussion of critical backlash, and a notable review of the documentary Ask E. Jean.

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Key Segments & Insights

1. Catch-Up & Banter

Timestamps: 01:50–05:49

• Simon and Mark open with a tongue-in-cheek chat about watching the World Cup, Mark surprisingly engaging with football, and playful barbs about sport and politics.
• Joking about a podcast focused on sports and politics but quickly pivoting to movies.

2. New Releases Reviewed

a. Pinocchio Unstrung

Timestamps: 10:43–16:58

• Part of the “twisted childhood” or “Pooniverse” of public domain horror reimaginings.
• Mark is not a fan but finds the practical puppetry “joyous,” especially in opening and closing credits.
  • Quote (Mark, 14:35):
    “I would quite happily watch a 90-minute making-of documentary but don’t want to be watching the film itself.”
• Simon quips that the best part is “when it’s strong”—the puppet sequence.

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b. Box Office Rundown

Timestamps: 18:27–24:56

• Talking through the top 10 films in UK & US box office.
• Listener stories, including a touching cinema ‘first time’ after a child’s remission.
  • Quote (Mark, 21:44):
    “What an absolutely sublime experience to have gone to see [Minions and Monsters]. I’m sorry, I can’t, actually, I can’t speak.”
• Discussion of the strong response to “The Odyssey”; criticism about “Moana” live-action.

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3. The Odyssey – Listener Correspondence

Timestamps: 24:56–33:02

• Insightful emails from:
  • Yorgos (listener from Ithaca), highlighting Greek production details and nitpicking translation of “lotus flower.”
  • Prof. Elton Barker (Greek literature academic) praising Nolan’s artistic choices in the film’s adaptation of Homer, and the use of empathetic, human moments in the script.
    • Quote:
      “Nolan has achieved something academics try all their lifetimes to achieve: to bring the ancient Greek world to life for everyone.” (28:47)
• Mark and Simon debate IMAX vs. large cinema screens; consensus: biggest/best screen available is recommended.

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4. Interview: Andy Serkis on Animal Farm

Timestamps: 34:29–51:01

Key Discussion Points

• Serkis’s Personal Connection:
  First read Animal Farm as a child on the bus to school; the story’s emotional impact and Boxer’s fate resonated deeply.
  • “It absolutely slayed me… I felt just emotionally sort of so sorry for the characters...” (36:56)
• Genesis of This Adaptation:
  • Rights obtained in 2011 after work on Rise of the Planet of the Apes inspired a performative, animal-centric approach.
  • Decision to animate (not motion-capture) to maintain innocence and accessibility for younger audiences.
    • Sought to create a film for families to watch and discuss together.
• Intended Themes:
  • The repeating cycles of power and oppression; dangers of misinformation, manipulation, and “entertainment” politics.
    • “We’re now living in a world where the truth isn’t really held as a value that we care about ... it’s done through entertainment and corrupting people’s minds...” (41:28)
• Casting Choices:
  • Seth Rogen voices Napoleon for his “entertaining” and approachable exterior masking sinister intent—a modern-style populist villain.
    • “It would have been easy to cast a very obvious villain ... we’re living in an era where villainy is covered over with a smile... a villain who can entertain...” (42:54)
• Major Changes to the Story:
  • Introduced new character Lucky (the piglet) to provide viewers, especially younger ones, a character arc from innocence through corruption.
  • Added a third act to move beyond Orwell’s famously bleak original ending, promoting reflection and hope for agency.
    • “We can’t not do anything about it... you have to keep trying.” (46:56)
• Contemporary References:
  • Tech-mogul farmer Pilkington with Tesla-style cars and drones—a critique of surveillance capitalism.
• Critical Reception:
  • Surprised by U.S. critical hostility. Per Serkis, the film is anti-authoritarian (not partisan), but social media and media echo chambers have fueled polarized readings.
  • Concerned parents have been deterred by online negativity, sometimes without seeing the film.
• Humorous Touches:
  • A joke about the “Notorious Pig” and the use of George McCrae’s “Rock Your Baby” as a disco-era soundtrack nod.
• Serkis Updates:
  • Brief chat about his time in New Zealand working on a new Lord of the Rings film.

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5. Critical Review & Discussion: Animal Farm Adaptation

Timestamps: 51:01–65:07

Kermode & Mayo’s Take

• Context of previous Animal Farm adaptations:
  • The 1950s animated version was CIA-backed as anti-Communist propaganda.
• Noted the new film is distributed by Angel Studios (U.S. distributor of right-leaning, “family values” films), adding to politicized perceptions.
• Animation is bright/Disney-fied, visually for <i>young audiences</i> but thematically dark. Both agree it’s best suited for “top end primary” (ages 9–11).
  • Quote (Simon, 56:58): “I think top end primary ... by the time you get to 9, 10, 11, these things are worth talking to.”
• Thematically, this version focuses on the rise of populism, the abuse of entertainment politics, and the complicity of the masses (“we are the sheep”).
• Seth Rogen’s Napoleon is an explicit Trump parallel in language and behavior (“loser,” “weak”), but the critique is understood as global populism, not just about the U.S.
• Critical Misstep Identified:
  The choice to extend the story with a hopeful third act, departing from Orwell’s famously bleak conclusion (“from pig to man ... impossible to say which was which”), dilutes the allegory’s blunt edge.
  • Quote (Mark, 64:19):
    “The power of Animal Farm is that it’s horrifying at the end ... the terror is that last thing. And I think the third act is a misstep.”
• Overall Verdict:
  • Thought-provoking adaptation, but marred by an ill-judged “uplifting” finale.
  • Puzzlement at the critical backlash; both hosts found the film “pretty good,” with strong voice cast and visuals.
    • “You’ll have a pretty good conversation at the end of it—and there aren’t many films that will do that.” (Simon, 64:30)

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6. Review: Ask E. Jean (Documentary)

Timestamps: 71:46–80:52

• Documentary follows E. Jean Carroll, columnist who brought sexual assault claims against Donald Trump.
• Mixed biographical portrait (career in journalism and TV), and legal chronicle (her #MeToo-era lawsuits and court victories).
• Explores the challenges sexual assault survivors face in seeking justice.
  • Quote (Mark, 75:01): “This is a very important portrait of a woman standing up against a system which is clearly loaded against her... but she does it, and she wins.”
• Emphasized the ongoing struggle for public awareness:
  • “People in this country do not know that Donald Trump has been held liable for sexual assault... if this movie could be seen by people, it might make a difference.” (Carroll, as quoted by Mark, 79:31)
• Cinematic and political crossover: both Animal Farm and Ask E. Jean deal with the danger of charismatic, powerful, and corrupt leadership.

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7. Listener Correspondence, AI Discussion, and Laughter Lift

Timestamps: 65:09–71:46

• Ongoing listener stories about AI’s effect on journalism, creative industries, and even podcast accuracy.
• Jokes about AI “hallucinating” Kermode’s reviews:
  • “Mark Kermode called Executioner his favorite film of the year”—which Mark hotly denies ever having seen.
• Laughter lift: light jokes, including the “Notorious Pig” gag—a favorite from the Animal Farm adaptation.
• Ongoing feature: “AI Don’t Like That”—listeners’ tales of the creeping robot takeover.

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Memorable Quotes

• Mark (on Pinocchio Unstrung, 14:42):
  “Of all the ones that I’ve seen so far, and I haven’t liked any of them, this is the best in as much as I dislike it less than the other ones.”
• Andy Serkis (on modern villainy, 42:54):
  “We’re living in an era where villainy is covered over with a smile... a villain who can entertain and make you feel they’re on your side.”
• Mark (on Animal Farm’s politics, 59:12):
  “Seth Rogen... loser, loser, who’s the person that uses the word loser? ... That is Trump.”
• Simon (on audience age, 56:58):
  “I think top end primary... these things are worth talking to.”
• Mark (on hopeful endings, 64:19):
  “The power of Animal Farm is that it’s horrifying at the end... I think the third act is a misstep.”
• Simon (on Animal Farm’s discussion potential, 64:30):
  “You’ve got a top end primary... an adult and a grandparent... they’ll all laugh at the same time and I think they’ll all be scared at the same time, and you’ll have a pretty good conversation at the end of it.”

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Final Thoughts / Film of the Week

• Ask E. Jean is Mark’s pick of the week—a documentary with urgent contemporary relevance, “because everyone’s forgotten this.”
• Both hosts puzzled by the fierce criticism faced by Serkis’ Animal Farm, defending it as a worthy, if imperfect, adaptation.

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Recommendations & Upcoming

• Special spoiler episode of The Odyssey coming soon.
• Listeners encouraged to catch Animal Farm and Ask E. Jean for their thought-provoking takes on power and justice.
• Next week: Mark’s review of Spider-Man: Brand New Day.

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Noteworthy Timestamps

• 13:20–14:42: Mark on the joy of practical effects in Pinocchio Unstrung
• 36:56–38:30: Andy Serkis on first reading Animal Farm as a child
• 42:54: Serkis on casting and the new face of authoritarianism
• 46:56: Serkis on the necessity of hope for young audiences
• 51:24–55:49: Mark’s historical context for Animal Farm adaptations and politics
• 56:58–57:51: Audience age suitability for the new Animal Farm
• 64:19: Mark critiques the film’s optimistic final act
• 75:10: Ask E. Jean – E. Jean Carroll on why she sued Trump

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Tone

Friendly, sharp-witted, and warmly combative as always; intellectual but accessible, peppered with jokes, tangents, and occasional passionate calls-to-action. The episode balances cinephile insight with relevant cultural commentary and a sense of communal listener engagement.

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For further discussion or recommendations, check out the show’s Patreon and website (links in the official show notes).

Transcript

[Narrator]

Grainger knows. When you're a procurement manager for an office park, you're not managing one building, you're managing all of them. And to stay ahead, you need to see through walls and around corners. Lights about to fail, filters ready to clog H Vac on its last leg. If you wait until something breaks, you're already behind. Count on Grainger for quality products, easy reordering and 24. 7 support. Call 1-800-GRAINGER click grainger.com or. Or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done. Hey, psst. You didn't hear this from me, but Normal Gossip is back for its ninth season. Join me, Rachel Hampton, as I share the juiciest gossip from the real world with some very special guests. This season, we're bringing back some old friends, a Radiotopia buddy, and for the first time ever, a Nobel laureate. That. That's right, we have Malala on season nine. Normal Gossip is out on all your favorite podcast platforms.

[Simon]

Before we begin, a quick reminder that you can become a Vanguardista and get

[Mark]

an extra episode every Thursday, including bonus reviews, extra viewing suggestions, viewing recommendations at home and in cinemas, plus your film

[Simon]

and non film questions answered as best we can in questions.

[Mark]

You can get all that extra stuff via Apple podcasts or head to extratakes.com for non fruit related devices.

[Simon]

There's never been a better time to become a Vanguardista. Free offer now available wherever you get your podcasts. And if you're already a Vanguard Easter, we salute you. So I'm sitting watching England play Argentina.

[Mark]

Hello, Simon.

[Simon]

Hi. And then, so everyone's gathered around, you know, just because it's the World cup and all that, and it's pretty tense. And then my phone buzzes and I imagine it's somewhat someone saying, you know, this is a tense match, or, you know, what do you think? Or we're doomed or something like that. But no, it's a message from Mark saying, okay, our films for the next week are. I'm thinking, what? What? You're. Do you not. What?

[Andy Serkis]

How.

[Simon]

How is this possible? And this continued, I think you said another one during the World Cup Final as well. Yep. This is what we're working on next films, I think, anyway. I mean, I know you're not up for sport, but I would have thought that you'd have been, you know, aware of what everyone else was doing.

[Mark]

If I can be quite clear. Yes, I sent those messages during the hydration breaks.

[Simon]

Oh, I see.

[Mark]

Okay, so. So firstly, I watched three football matches, right. I watched England, Argentina, when We scored and then went into a defensive crouch.

[Simon]

Hang on. Apparently I feel as though the world is.

[Mark]

No, I know, but I mean, even I. Even I was. It was like, after we scored, why is it that we're no longer going anywhere near their end of the pitch? And anyway, so there was that. Then I watched England, France, which I thought was terrific. It was just like, goal, goal, goal. I mean, it was 4 nil at the end of the first half.

[Simon]

This is. I feel very disturbed now because this is the kind of conversation that I might have with someone else on the team. And you'd be going, what. What is this? What is a goal?

[Mark]

No, no, no. I really, I really enjoyed it. And also what I really liked was the, the good naturedness of it all. I mean, I know obviously, because. Because. Because they hadn't qualified for the final, so therefore. But I thought everyone was giving it their best. And then they were all, you know, hugging us as opposed to. I mean, as opposed to people.

[Simon]

Download this podcast for football chat. Anyway, and I did think I mark to review the World cup final like a movie, but I thought, no, it's too late. And.

[Mark]

Well, here, here's my review of the World Cup Final. Like a movie. Yes, it was interesting to see a game in which one side were playing football and the other side appeared to be playing rollerball. It.

[Simon]

It's.

[Mark]

It was. I don't think I've ever seen so much. Just. I mean, is that. Is that what it's normally like? The ramming into people, the punching at the end, the. I mean, is that. Is that usual?

[Simon]

Well, I think the, the extent to which it happened is unusual, but Argentina do have a reputation for that kind of behavior. And in fact, their rugby team were in a similar scrap against England recently. And there's lots of complaints about what went on there as well.

[Mark]

Right.

[Simon]

But I think a lot. It was essentially most of the world against Argentina precisely for the reasons that you studied, which was shocking gamesmanship, terrible fouling, lenient referees, and the fact that they turned their back on the, on the winning team for the presentation of

[Mark]

the cup was when. When you get.

[Andy Serkis]

Shocking.

[Mark]

Yeah. When you get to the presentation of the cup, the, the course, the thing that everyone's noticed, you know, was that Mango Mussolini could not be got off the stage. And that was. But I did like the booing. I thought that. I enjoyed that.

[Simon]

Yeah, I think, I think Argentina, managed by Joe Pesci, and I think that's probably the reason why any. He showed some of his gangster said,

[Mark]

we're we're going to. Funny how.

[Simon]

Anyway, there was a thing at the end.

[Mark]

Literally there was a film at the end of them and one of the Argent. You would know who this is. I don't. Literally punching another guy after the match had ended.

[Simon]

Yes, yes, that is definitely true.

[Mark]

It actually happened.

[Simon]

Will you stop talking about football, Mark? Football, football, football. It's all you talk about all the time. Heaven's sake. I don't download this podcast here. Two men talking about football. There are lots of others, you know.

[Mark]

Yeah. Stick to politics, Ker.

[Simon]

Yes.

[Mark]

On the subject of which, yeah, there's

[Simon]

plenty to talk about on the show today because Mark is going to be reviewing these films.

[Mark]

Yes. Pinocchio Unstrong, which is the latest film in the Twisted Childhood or Pooniverse Ask E. Jean, which is a documentary about E. Jean Carroll, the great E. Jean Carroll and Animal Farm. Which brings us to our precious guest.

[Simon]

Yes, our precious guest is Andy Serkis, who joins us down the line from New Zealand where he's working on a big movie of some kind. You can get Take two ad free by heading to our Patreon page. Just search Comoda Mo Patreon and you'll find us there. A bonus review this week would be what then?

[Mark]

Well, Animal Farm, Intake one, Intake two, Chicken Run. The Great Escape comes to the farm.

[Simon]

Oh, okay. All right. So a certain theme developing there. You can email us at any time, which is correspondenceodemo.com. i just almost gave out my own email and I've done that before, but this is in general not a good idea. Also giving out my own phone number back on Radio 1 Days.

[Mark]

But anyway.

[Simon]

And did you do that? Yeah, I did. And then. Which was stupid. And then the even more stupid thing was I then said, oh, no, that's my home phone number.

[Mark]

What? Please tell me. Please tell me that everybody called you and asked for requests.

[Simon]

No, Well, I mean, I wasn't there, which was great then.

[Mark]

Oh, it wasn't a mobile. It was your. It was literally your landline.

[Simon]

The landline.

[Mark]

Your landline number.

[Simon]

1986, mate. You know, we didn't have mobiles, I don't think. Did we? I can't remember. Email from Paul here. Dear Ship, shape and Bristol fashion. Firstly, I just wanted to say how excited I am about this year's Christmas special taking place in my hometown of Bristol this year.

[Andy Serkis]

Yay.

[Simon]

I cannot wait. It was so lovely to hear Mark and Ben singing the city's praises.

[Mark]

Is that what you were doing? Yeah, absolutely. Love Bristol. The good lady professor. Her indoors is from Bristol. She's from Annam and, and it's great. The Bristol watershed is fantastic and the whole waterfront area. It's, it's, it's a, it's a wonderful place. Really looking forward to it.

[Simon]

Paul says it's a wonderful, progressive, friendly and creative place to be. Mark mentioned the watershed in Bristol as being a great cinema and art center.

[Mark]

It is.

[Simon]

But I also thought it worth highlighting 20th century flicks which is but a short walk from Bristol Beacon on the Christmas steps. Not only are they the longest running video shop in the world with over 20,000 films to choose from, they also house an eight seater. That's an eight seater Twin Peaks themed cinema room that you can hire to watch any of the films in their catalog. It truly is a special place. I believe Mark has not been there yet. I would strongly recommend a visit on your way to Bristol Beacon in December. You won't regret it.

[Mark]

Mark hasn't been there yet, but Mark did do a program on Radio 4 in which Mark's co presenter went there and presented a report from it and it sounded absolutely fabulous. So I will try and put my head in when we're down there to

[Simon]

do our Christmas show and the Christmas show 7pm on December 6th and we'll be at the Bristol Beacon. The ticket link is in the show notes. Everything's selling fast. I don't know that it is, but I'm assuming that that is the case. Hotcakes indeed. Matt. Matt Grapes, which is a great name. Holder of the school shot put record for precisely two minutes. That's his claim to fame. Dear inpatient and outpatient, the recent correspondence on inappropriate hospital viewing reminded me of some inappropriate and inadvertent hospital listening that I subjected a surgical team to during the pregnancy of. This is. This scene is so perfect it could be a sitcom. Okay, okay. During the pregnancy of Child two, the good lady microbiologist ER indoors had some complications which meant we had to have a scheduled caesarean section. In the run up to the operation, it was suggested we might want to bring some music to have played in the theater, being a long time ago, I dutifully burned a CD of the most soothing songs I could think of that my wife loved. On the day these were playing and as the. On the day these were playing and as the anesthetist carefully altered the mix to alleviate some nausea, he turned to me and said, you must be kidding. And it was at that point that I realized that adding the verbs the drugs don't work to the mixtape was probably not my Finest moment. But all went well. And Child two is well, although she occasionally wants to exit the car via the sunroof.

[Narrator/Clip Voice]

Hey,

[Simon]

apologies for that last laughter Lift Quality joke. Wasn't that good? Hello, Jason. And we have a few two we've. Haven't we had a few too many Nobi Jones episodes. Now that's true for a while. The last Toby Jones was the Richard Burton film, Mr. Burton. So if Toby wants to come back on, that'd be a lovely thing. Correspondence@kevin mayor.com Tell us about something that's out Pinocchio Unstrung.

[Mark]

This is the latest in the the twisted childhood universe, or pooniverse, just to remind you. Quote a dark reimagining of public domain classic characters from children's literature, which was dreamed up by Reesrek Waterfield. And also Scott Chambers is involved in it. And they did Winnie the Pooh, Blood and Honey and then Winnie the Pooh, but you remember that. Okay, fine. So these things are in the public domain. So they're working way through a bunch of children's things and turning them into. Into horror movies now. So I saw and really disliked the Winnie the Pooh Blood and Honey movies. I don't think I've seen Peter Pan's Neverland Nightmare or Bambi the Reckoning. I have no memory of having seen them. They have apparently been made and come out anyway. So Scott Chambers, who was fantastic in Chicken and I really, really terrific actor and recently in Malpractice, was interviewed about the franchise and he, he said every time you watch one of these, talking about the country, comparing the Pooniverse and the twisted childhood universe to the Conjuring universe, he said every time you watch one of those films, they got the same tone, the same vibe in ours. It's not like that. If you don't like one of them, you might actually like the next. So for example, if you don't like the campiness of the Winnie the Pooh films, you might actually like Pan because it's a lot more grounded, a lot more serious. Then if you don't like that, you might like Pinocchio because he's wearing skin, running around killing people with his nose, which kind of makes it sound fun. So this is Pinocchio Armstrong in this one. Pinocchio is created by the Geppetto character Richard Brake after his son James loses his best friend. So the dad, who is creepy as anything now wants to make a friend for his son that will never die. And the friend that he makes is a hideous looking puppet that he expects his Son to be delighted by. Here is a clip from the trailer.

[Andy Serkis]

It's always hard losing someone you love. I'm sorry I had to experience all that so young.

[Simon]

I wish Zach was still here.

[E. Jean Carroll]

Doesn't feel the same anymore.

[Neil Ramji]

Come down.

[Andy Serkis]

There's someone here I want you to meet. I just thought you could use a friend. This could be good for the both

[Narrator]

of you

[Andy Serkis]

to life.

[Mark]

It's like why boys like me are different from you.

[Simon]

Organs and stuff.

[E. Jean Carroll]

I want to be just like you.

[Mark]

And the way he wants to be just like him is by getting organs and stuff. So James isn't allowed to tell anyone about his new friend, although, because he does. And then he insists that actually it's like an AI controlled puppet. Meanwhile, Pinocchio himself wants to be just like James. And he is told by this demonic sort of Jiminy Cricket character that the way he can become a real boy is to. Is to harvest real organs. So he sort of sets about killing anyone who doesn't, you know, who is James enemy, but also harvesting their body parts and then sticking them inside himself in order to make himself real. And the voice of his unconscionable conscience is your friend of mine, Robert Englund. So you know horror legend. Yes, Freddy Krueger. So as before, there is an awful lot of very kind of rubbery and sort of crass gore going on. That's, you know, that's the sort of the modus operandi of the series. Lots of awful, lots of squishiness, lots of, lots of head cheese. Of all the ones that I've seen so far, and I haven't liked any of them, this is, this is the best in as much as I dislike it less than the other ones.

[Simon]

Okay.

[Mark]

And the. But the reason for it is this. It's largely because of the puppetry. In fact, I would say the very best thing about Pinocchio and Strong is the opening credits, which is done as an old fashioned shadow show with silhouettes moving, you know, with a light behind them, which is really, really well done. And then the end credits and the end credits which begin by declaring proudly that the film was made using practical effects, puppetry, animatronics, that stuff. And then it's just loads and loads of behind the scenes footage of the effects being done. And there is something really joyful about it. There's people lying on their backs with bits of string and wires making the puppet move and, you know, doing the special effects. And you can see it. And it's, it's. If you've ever been on set of a, of a horror movie when the gore stuff is being done, I mean, it's really, really joyous. I've this thing about quite often the nastiest movies are made by the nicest people because the special effects people, I mean it's. Nowadays there's so much stuff is done with cg, but when everything was being done with polymethylcellulose and, and you know, rubber and latex stuff, it was, it was really joyous. And there is something really delightful about the end credits. The practical solutions to the problems and the scenes that you've just seen. Oh, look, that's how they're doing it. He's lying under that bit and then he's got his hand. Then he's got a bit when he's on a trolley and you can't see his legs. You could. That's really, really well done. What's sad is that that sense of joy is completely missing from the bit between the opening credits and the end credits. Because the rest of the film is exactly what the other films in this series have been, which is just sort of stodgy splatter. It is, I think, one of the very few films in which I would quite happily watch a 90 minute making of documentary but don't want to be watching the film itself. So the puppetry and the invention is great and the mechanical effects is good. And everyone on set looks like they're having a really. And really, really enjoying doing all the practical stuff. And then the film itself is. Oh yeah, it's just that thing which is just a bit depressing and grim.

[Simon]

So it's the best bit about Pinocchio unstrung the bit when it's strong.

[Mark]

Yes, I wish I said that. Yes, exactly is exactly right.

[Simon]

It's the unstrung bit.

[Rachel Hampton]

Yeah.

[Mark]

The best bit about Pinocchio Armstrong is the bit that is strong.

[Simon]

What a strange word that sounds when repeated very often. Okay, so still to come after the break, Ask E Gene and Animal Farm will be reviewed. Which brings us to our special guest. I'm doing all your lines, Mark, in case it's the one and only Andrew Clement Circus talking to us live from New Zealand.

[E. Jean Carroll]

We finally got her. Oh my God, he got her.

[Rachel Hampton]

For years, a deranged man in Wichita known as the Poet, stalked Ruth Finley. He sent her letters, gifts and poems. The Wichita police put everything they had into Ruth's case, but got nowhere.

[Andy Serkis]

The Poet was always two steps in front of us and we just didn't know why.

[Rachel Hampton]

And the city was already living in fear under the watch of another monster who called himself btk. And he also had a thing for poetry.

[Neil Ramji]

Could we really have two different people?

[Rachel Hampton]

But no one could have guessed how this would end.

[Mark]

That's one of those Hitchcock endings that

[Andy Serkis]

we did not expect From Sony Music

[Rachel Hampton]

Entertainment and New Metric Media. This is the Poet. I'm Rachel Brown. The Poet is available now on the binge. Search for it wherever you get your podcast. To start listening today, subscribers to the binge can listen to all episodes all at once ad free.

[Simon]

So Andy Serkis. Coming up, UK box office, the very latest chart positions. Okay, number 10 here is Jackass. Best and last.

[Mark]

Well, look, I think both of those words are true. I think it is the last, as I think they're not going to go back and do it again. And I think it is the best in as much as of all of them, it's the one that I had a problem with the least because actually of all of them, the double negatives are tying my head in knots. Now, I do think that there is a thing going on about male friendship. It's just the poo and the vomit that I can't be dealing with.

[Simon]

Number nine. Number ten in the States is Disclosure Day.

[Mark]

It's funny, the further I get away from disclosure day, the less I think about it. And the problem with that is I'm forgetting that I did enjoy it when I watched it, but it does seem very, very old fashioned now. And it's. How long has it been? Six weeks, I think. Six weeks after. I'm really struggling to remember anything significant about it.

[Simon]

I can remember lots of things, but then maybe I did. I enjoy it more. Does that mean I enjoyed it more than you?

[Mark]

Probably. I think we both enjoyed it in the moment, but I think it stuck with you longer than it than it has stuck with me.

[Simon]

Number eight here. Number nine in America is Supergirl.

[Mark]

Very good central performance. Shame about the rest of the movie.

[Simon]

Number seven is Obsession.

[Mark]

Tenth week in the charts. I mean, just a rip roaring runaway success for a horror movie that unlike some other horror fair, really has got smart ideas and brilliantly executed and walks that perfect line between being satirical and terrifying. Just a great film.

[Simon]

Six here and six there. The invite.

[Mark]

I think both you and I like the invite very much. If you haven't heard it, you can go and hear Simon's invite interview, which is very good. It was a couple of podcasts ago. I liked it. It just seemed like the kind of grown up movie that they don't make anymore.

[Simon]

Number Five. It looks as though it says here, Evil Dead Bum. So I'll go with that. Evil Dead Bum at number five.

[Mark]

That's what we're going to call it from now on. And it is very, very appropriate because Evil Dead Bum is a bunch of ass.

[Simon]

All the fours, because four here and four in Canada. Minions and Monsters. And we have an email here from. This is a top email from Martin d'. Souza.

[Mark]

Okay, great.

[Simon]

Simon and Mark, just wanted to share a recent cinema trip with you. In 2023, our nine month old son was diagnosed with acute myeloid leukemia. Then followed a tough eight months of intensive hospital treatment for him. And to be honest, it was the hardest time of our lives last week. And having been in remission for three years, well, I took my son to the cinema for the first time to see Minions and Monsters. Seeing him enjoy the magic of cinema for the first time and laughing non stop at the film was an incredible experience and one we thought we may not have been able to enjoy. Endless gratitude to the NHS who provided life saving treatment every day, and to the Minions who made his first cinema visit so fun. All the best long term listener, Martin d'. Souza. So imagine. So we talked about first movies many, many times. But imagine if you're. The first movie you go and see is Minions and Monsters. That's going to be magic, isn't it?

[Mark]

It's just perfect. I mean, as I said, the first, the first movie I remember seeing was Krakatar east of Java, which is not a very good film, but I just loved it because it was just, it was spectacular. But Minions and Monsters. And thank you so much for sending us that email and terrific to hear that things are going as they are now going. And what, what an absolutely sublime experience to have gone to see that. It's. I'm. Yeah, I'm sorry, I can't. Actually, I can't speak.

[Simon]

I mean, especially if you thought that you weren't ever going to have that experience. To actually. And to have such a masterful film to enjoy.

[Mark]

Just wonderful, Just wonderful.

[Simon]

Okay, number three. Here is Moana. Number two, in America.

[Mark]

I am surprised by just how hostile the response to the live action Moana has been.

[Simon]

It's just not just, it's, it's. It's just nonsense, you know, because there is always, there's always another reason it's not used. You know, if you've gone to see it and there are reasons that you don't like it, then that's absolutely fine and fair enough. But you just suspect as with all, you know, as with the Odyssey, which we'll get to.

[Mark]

All right.

[Simon]

The, you know, the hostile critics are. There's usually another reason for the hostility that's not to do with the film.

[Mark]

Yeah, I mean, I don't, I don't know what it is. As I said, I think that the live action project is, Is pointless and silly. But of all of the live action ones, this is the one that I, That I had least problem with. I did say when I was reviewing it, that's probably because just love Moana and the story and the songs are great. And actually the, The. The live action, well, live action animation hybrid sticks so closely to the original that it is very much like watching. I mean, like, you know, does it add anything? Absolutely not. Does it do any harm? I don't think so, but I'm just surprised by the level of hostility, particularly since some of the previous live actions have actually been received, you know, fairly, fairly generously. I just don't get why this is the one that suddenly got the knives out.

[Simon]

Toy Story 5 is at number two, number three in America.

[Mark]

I mean, we have had emails from people who've been to see it, really

[Simon]

liked it, depending on how old their kids are. Really.

[Mark]

Yeah. And so I'm. I am really glad that that's happening. I think that I've come to the end of the road of my. With my love affair with Toy Story 5. I think you probably have too, because I think we. I think we both thought the trilogy was perfect. And in an ideal world, that's what it would have been. It would have been Toy Story 1, 2 and 3. Four was okay. I did think five was stretching a point.

[Simon]

And number one, and very, very, very, very, very number one is the Odyssey. Same here and same over there. A huge 12.6 million opening weekend. Second biggest of the year so far behind Toy Story 5 and ahead of Super Mario Galaxy Movie. Biggest opening Friday of the year. Fifth biggest opening Friday ever for Universal. Flourished in imax, with the biggest ever IMAX opening in the UK and becoming the fourth biggest IMAX release of the year. After just two days, the go woke, go broke crowd have been noticeably silent, which has been a good thing for everybody. Dear Agamemnon and Odysseus.

[Mark]

Yes, let me just check who this is.

[Simon]

Oh, yes. Okay. This is interesting, I think. Okay, because this is from Yorgos, longtime listener and Ithacan born and raised. Yes, that Ithaca. So probably, I don't know if we have any other listeners who were born in Ithaca. That Ithaca. But this is Yorgos, it can't be

[Mark]

that many because that Ithaca isn't that big, is it?

[Simon]

I can't profess to know, but anyway, I'm just glad that Yorgos is a listener. Yes, and he comes from there. Watching the Odyssey must have been the most suicidal real experience of my life. I grew up studying in school, having a statue of Odysseus in our square, and having walked on what is believed to have been his palace. Now I am seeing the biggest possible film based on the myth, and to my surprise, done respectfully and beautifully. While Odysseus's gray morality was toned down, they made him very empathetic and gave him a new modern arc about regret and guilt. However, that lotus flower bugged me. Well, a lotus, or lotos, as it is in Greek, is a fruit, specifically a khaki. I can't profess to know this, while in the poem it is meant to be a fruit, potentially used as a metaphor for Odysseus's crew doing drugs and losing time. It was certainly not a flower. That probably happened because of a mistranslation or incorrect localization. The translator was potentially thinking that the poem literally meant what English speakers know as the lotus flower. I found it silly. Anyway, love the film and the podcast, but if that's the only thing, this is a small hill to die on. And of all the people who've had a. A problem with the film, you, Yorgos. George Adelopoulos, thank you very much indeed for the email. I hadn't realized that the lotus flower might bug some people, but it did. Yorgos, this is from. Oh, now from Elton Barker, professor of Greek Literature and Culture.

[Rachel Hampton]

Wow.

[Simon]

I believe he's emailed before because his emails are always like 10 pages long.

[Mark]

May I just say very quickly on the subject of Yorgos, the Ionian island has a population of 2,800, so that isn't a very big population. So thank you so much for emailing us. You know, and is it an Ithacan? If you're from Ithaca, are you an Ithican? Yes. Yes. Yeah.

[Simon]

So Elton Barker, professor of Greek Literature and Culture, says Vanguard Easter Classics. Prof. Here, I've been living with the Odyssey most of my life. I mean, this is the most. I mean, the qualifications that we have. So, first of all, someone who comes from Ithaca, and now someone who has been living with the Odyssey most of his life ever since, like Ben, I raced home from school in the mid-1980s to watch the earworm Tastic Yuli E C31. I don't know that one. Or Tony Robinson's Jack and Ori special. Odysseus, the greatest hero of them all.

[Mark]

Wow.

[Simon]

All those years later, I'm literally still working on the poem, still trying to understand it, because it's my job, so I have a vested interest. What to say?

[E. Jean Carroll]

1.

[Simon]

There are awesome set pieces, film gold, as Nolan put it in his terrific interview with Simon. Scenes such as the Sirens, Hades, scylla, cyclops, circe. 2. See it in Imax in the shipwreck scene. The sound alone pulled me up by the hairs on the back of my neck. You could feel the power of the gods.

[Mark]

Yeah, you can. 3.

[Simon]

I don't think that I breathed for the entirety of the culminating palace scene four. But what really struck me was Nolan's daring decision to use an episode that doesn't even appear in the Odyssey. If I'd known this, obviously I would have brought it up with him. Just a fleeting mention in book 8 when Odysseus in disguise asks a bard to perform one of the Troy stories greatest hits, the one about the Trojan Horse. And as Odysseus listened to it, this his greatest trick celebrated in song. He in quotes, quote, melted. Homer tells us, quote and shed warm tears. Just like a woman weeps as she falls to the ground to embrace her dear husband and watches him die, gasping for breath before the spear is brought down heavily on her back and she's carted off into slavery. Blimey, that's a cheerful little episode. Lines 521 to 530 if you want to look it up. Homer shows Odysseus weeping as if he were one of his own victims. This focus on the aftermath of the Trojan Horse trick, the devastating consequences it has for all concerned, including our in quotes hero, is precisely what Nolan homes in on and uses as his connecting thread. It is genius and it's deeply moving when we find out that the goddess Athena appears to Odysseus as she does for a reason. I had tears in my eyes. Nolan's depiction of this relationship is sensitive, is beautiful and profoundly human. Nolan has achieved something that academics like me try our lifetimes to achieve, to bring the ancient Greek world to life for everyone to experience, enjoy and learn from. We owe him. I'll leave the last word to my non academic mum. Who said that? Samantha Morton. She had a bit of menace about her, didn't she?

[Mark]

Well, quite.

[Simon]

And down with those who don't respect Zeus's law. Elton Barker professor of Greek Literature and Culture so what I like about that is here is someone who it's his job, it's his life's work to do this and he hasn't gone and he's being all snarky or everything. He's just as blown away as I was and I know nothing about this.

[Mark]

Very good.

[Simon]

So just to say. Yeah, go on.

[Mark]

Yeah, no, can I. I just want to ask a format question, because both you and I saw the Odyssey in imax. We saw it at the BFI imax, which is probably the best place to see it. A lot of people have got in touch on social media to say, look, it's all very well saying, see it in IMAX. My nearest IMAX cinema is 100 miles away, or there isn't. And this is the number of the IMAX cinemas that there are, and this, that and the other. I had also pointed out that my friend Jack had gone to the premiere where he had seen the 70 mil at the Odeon Leicester Square, whatever that one is now called, and said that he thought that he was absolutely missing something. The good lady professor, her indoors went to see the film at the Southampton Showcase on the big screen in the Southampton Showcase and she was knocked out.

[Simon]

So it's just a standard. It's just the big screen.

[Mark]

Just a bit, as I understand it was just the big screen, or whatever they call it Impact or X, or they call it something, but it's the big screen and. And absolutely loved it. Just thought it was knockout and has talked about very little ever since coming back. So it's. I understand that it must be really annoying to hear somebody who had the great privilege of seeing it in the BFI imax, which is the best possible way of seeing it. But I also understand that, as I said, there are people I know who have seen it in other formats and have really enjoyed it, although I know one person who specifically saw it in another format and then is actually going to the. To the Science Museum screening specifically to see it in imax. Where do you stand on this, Simon?

[Simon]

I mean, I think Nolan is a clever enough filmmaker, so he's obviously famously filmed it for the first time. Everything has been filmed in imax. But if that meant that going to see it on an ordinary big screen was disappointing, he would have failed, because, as you say, most people will not be seeing this in imax. This has to work at the cinema, you know, on the big. Just. Just the biggest screen. So the advice has to be, whatever the biggest screen is to you, you can see conveniently, then do that. And if it's just the local Odeon screen one, then it's going to be, it's still going to be great. But just see it on the biggest screen that you can, you know, don't wait for it to be on the telly.

[Mark]

I'm looking at the showcase website and the screen that she saw it on was the X plus screen which says feel every moment in X features a super sized screen, Dolby Atmos sound and ultra HD prediction projection. So that's what she saw it in. And, and she, sorry, she's the cat's mother and the good lady professor her indoors gave it a huge thumbs up and absolutely loved it.

[Simon]

Yeah. So, so yes, point taken. And I think this comes up a bit later as well. Some people have been talking about being able to get to IMAX cinemas but the biggest screen that is available to you and that will. And the best sound system, you know, and that will do. And we are doing an odyssey spoiler special on Take Ultra in a couple of weeks time. Emails to the usual address, Please [e-mail] Andy Serkis is on the way after this. Now I guess this week is Andy Serkis. Actor, director, pioneer of performance capture technology. Acting credits obviously. Gollum in Lord of the Rings trilogy, Planet of the Apes Caesar, King Kong in Peter Jackson's King Kong, Ulysses Claw in Black Panther, Supreme Leader Snoke in Star wars the Forces Awaken, Star Wars Last Jedi, Alfred Pennyworth in the Batman, Luther Mowgli, Legend of the Jungle. Directing credits include Breathe Mowgli, Legend of the Jungle, Venom, Let There Be Carnage and the upcoming the Lord of the Rings the Hunt for Gollum. You'll get an update on that movie kind of just very briefly in a moment. And now Animal farm. And in 2020 he received Bafta's outstanding British contribution to Cinema award. You know him? Anyway way you'll hear my conversation with Andy Serkis after this clip from Animal Farm.

[Narrator/Clip Voice]

Today we are here to celebrate power. And not just the electric power being generated by our state of the art incredible hydroelectric dam. No, I'm talking about the other kind of power. They say that kind of power corrupts and that absolute power corrupts absolutely. And I say whoever said that is a big whiny loser. I was born to be bacon, but am I a big whiny loser? Pilkington was a little girl with zero personality, no friends. But is she a big whiny loser? No is right my friends. So if you, if you want to be a pig like me, you gotta remember one oinking thing. All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others.

[Simon]

And that's a clip from Animal Farm. I'm delighted to say that the man responsible for this, the director, is Andy Serkis and he's on the line. Andy, hello. How are you, sir?

[Andy Serkis]

Hello, Simon. Very, very well. How you doing? You're right. Nice to see you.

[Simon]

Where are you?

[Andy Serkis]

I'm actually down in New Zealand at the moment, making a little movie.

[Simon]

Yeah, yeah, I've heard about that. It looks as though. It looks as though you're dressed for winter, I have to say.

[Andy Serkis]

I know. I'm very jealous that, you know, of all of you over there having such a great summer. I know it's been roasting hot, but it is actually the middle of winter down here in New Zealand, so I can't sympathize too much.

[Neil Ramji]

Yeah.

[Simon]

My only question about what you're doing down there is this one. How's it going?

[Andy Serkis]

It's. It's actually really exciting. I'm having a ball and it's so lovely to be back with a crew that I once worked with 26 years ago. And, you know, and now there are generations of those filmmakers who are. Who are still. Still coming back for more and their kids, you know, it's just a real sort of family. Family affair and it's quite. Quite wonderful.

[Mark]

So.

[Simon]

So you're talking about 26 years ago. Let's go back even further to when you're on. On the bus going to school and you're reading Animal Farm. So how old are you? What is the bus that you're on and how do you remember its impact on you?

[Andy Serkis]

So I was on the 273 bus to Ealing, where I was going to school from Ruislip, where I live. And. And I remember there are a number of books I read on that, on that bus journey. But. But Animal Farm absolutely slayed me because it was the first book I think I was reading as a young adult that, you know, or sort of an older child, really, that made me. I felt just emotionally sort of so sorry for the characters who had started off with such great intentions to create a. To create this wonderful harmony and this sense of freedom and it all to go horribly. And it really. It really stuck with me and it impacted me hugely. And of course, the journey of the character of Boxer, and particularly the sadness of that character and the way he comes to a bad end, you know, and then just the disloyalty and just as a young, sort of a young mind knowing that I didn't. Obviously, I wasn't fully aware of the political side of the story. And I eventually came to, obviously, as we all did know, about the fact that it was written as an allegory of Stalinism and totalitarian Russia and oppression and the failure of the communist revolution, but that it affected me on a more personal level sort of immediately. And then I went back and reread it when I was older and it's stuck with me ever since and become one of my favorite books.

[Simon]

So as I understand it, you got the rights to this in 2011, which is a long, which is a long, long time ago. How, I mean, obviously there are reasons for that, but I'm intrigued as to know this final film that you have. Is that what you imagined you were going to make in 2011? Is that what you wanted to do? How has your idea changed just in that period?

[Andy Serkis]

Well, two things really. When I first started thinking about it, it was on the back of having just worked on the first Apes movie, Rise of the Planet of the Apes, and the character that I was playing, Caesar, leads. Leads a group of apes that have been trapped inside a facility where they've been experimented on to freedom. A disparate group of apes to freedom. And, and it made me think there has not been a version of Animal Farm that in recent times that would hopefully connect with a new audience. So, so I started immediately thinking about a performance capture driven version of the story. But as myself and my business partner and producing partner, Jonathan Cavendish, talked about it more and more and you know, worked with the Orwell estate, we, we felt it would be more relevant to try and keep its innocence. It would have, it would have necessarily been a darker film because of a lot. If you make a live action film with motion captured animals, it's gonna, you know, it's gonna feel very connected to, to the world that we know in a, in a very real way. Whereas an animated movie, we felt, would sort of free you of that, retain the innocence of the storytelling and let you connect, connect in very, in a very relevant way to a modern, you know, a modern sense of what the themes were, but for primarily for a younger audience because we really wanted to make Jonathan Cavendish, my producing partner, we wanted to make a film for a young audience that could sit down and watch this film with their parents and grandparents and sort of have a discussion, have a debate and talk about, about the themes. And so, so therefore we wanted to make it, you know, applicable to all ages, as I suppose.

[Simon]

Okay, let's just take that analogy that you've used. If, if we have a family sitting down, teenager, parent and grandparent, They've watched your movie. What would you like them to be arguing about or discussing?

[Andy Serkis]

Well, I mean, I think we, I think we assume that children can't take responsibility. I think we assume that they don't think about, you know, serious themes and that we should shield them from them in some way. But the fact of the matter is, as we sort of know, history repeats itself. And really what I, what I was after and what Jonathan was after was this sense of, well, next time round and, you know, we will be passing on the baton to the next generation. How do we make things better to stop history from repeating itself? And you know, inevitably power corrupts. We've, we're now living in a world where we don't really know what's true anymore. The truth isn't really held as a value that we care about. It's sort of, it's almost like we, we don't know what is true and what is not. And so, and that really, for me, those are the, the, the themes about power and the, the abuse of power and oppression, of course, but, but actually how it's done in the modern era, which is not through, well, it is also done through fascism and, and brutality and oppression, but, but it's also done in much subtler ways and, and more. You know, it's done through entertainment and corrupting people's minds and through it, through, through mistruths and, and misinformation and creating an, you know, there's an entertainment about, about the way that certain leaders control,

[Simon]

I guess, and it is the, just on the entertainment side of things is that, is that mindset. The reason that you cast Seth Rogen to be the voice of Napoleon? Because to start with, he's very entertaining. It's the Seth Rogen that we know and there's jokes about farts and all that kind of stuff, but then he gets sinister and is it that entertainment that you wanted from him? Is that why you put in there?

[Andy Serkis]

Absolutely. I mean, it would have been very easy to cast, you know, a very obvious villain as Napoleon, as Orwell wrote, but that's sort of a little bit old fashioned. You know, we're living in an era where, where villainy is, is as I say, it's sort of covered over with, you know, it's a villain with smiles and it's a villain who can entertain and make you feel like they're on your side, but actually they're working completely in the opposite direction and they', interests, but they're pretending to and they make you feel happy to follow Them the

[Simon]

two specific things that you changed. One, you created a new character, Lucky, who we follow through the story and you've given it a third act. So there is the line, look, from man to pig and pig to man, and couldn't tell the difference that is there. And then we move on to a final bit of the story. Can you just explain why you decided that we needed Loki and you needed a third act?

[Andy Serkis]

It was very important to us to. I mean, it's quite objective. Animal Farm as a book, the animals receive information and as I say, disinformation. The rules that they set about trying to live by are completely turned on their head and they're changed and they can't even remember what was true anymore. That is in the book. But. But the corruption happens because of the pigs. They start to see themselves very early on actually, in the book as an elite society. And so instead of sort of just being on the receiving end of the information, which doesn't really allow you to get into the bunker, as it were, we wanted to create a character that would allow us into the world of the pigs and see their decision making. And not only that, we wanted a young character who could become completely bowled over by the power of the avuncular and funny leader, and yet. And then. And follow. And begin to kind of unwittingly follow him. So that we take our kid, you know, the kids who are watching this, we take them through a journey of being. Having the wool pulled over them, pulled over their eyes, if you'll excuse the phrase. And. And then. And then sort of realizing how. How manipulated they've been. And so it's. It was, you know, we wanted to go. I mean, in a film, obviously you have to have a protagonist, but. But we wanted that innocent piglet who never sees himself as any other than. Than the rest of the animals suddenly, suddenly becoming corrupted without, you know, knowing it and then realizing the mistakes that. That he's made. So. So we felt that was a legitimate. I mean, there are. At the end of the book, actually, there's a. There's a. There's the images of young, the next generation of pigs now that they've completely taken over and they are the elite and they expect to be treated as the elite, you know, but we thought, well, what if you took a piglet and actually put him at the beginning of the story and followed that journey into. Into the corrupt world of the pigs and, and allowed. Allowed us to allow watchers to have that moral maze and then the end was. Was really about, you Know, going back to, to that question which we wanted to ask the audience, which is, which is the world is a very bleak place and we could all just give up. And yes, things have gone wrong in so many places and there's oppression all around the world in various different guises, but we can't not do anything about it. We can't not do anything about it. We have to, we have to think. We have to think smart and think cleverly and find a way forward. And nobody is saying that there's an answer. The chances are that things will always, because of humanity being the way it is, go wrong again. But you have to, you have to keep trying.

[Simon]

On the subject of relevance, Andy, almost all the cars in your film look like Teslas.

[Andy Serkis]

Well, one of them does. One of them does. Owned by, owned by the farmer Pilkington, who people will remember from the book, but who in our version is a tech farm, high tech farm that is completely exploitative but also, you know, uses all the latest gadgets including a Tesla like car and drones and so on and so forth to surveil and.

[Simon]

Yeah, you know, we get, I think, I think, I think we get, we get that, we get that point. The reviews in America have been, haven't been particularly kind and you said, you've said that, you know, it's, it was going to be a polarizing film. I, I'm surprised about the tone of the, the reviews because I thought your, I think this is terrifying and I think even with your slightly more optimistic ending, because it is about totalitarianism and authoritarianism and how it's sold and how we trade our freedoms and how we're prepared to look the other way and how we're prepared to lose our dignity if we just buy the right things. I thought that that central theme remains and is as terrifying in your film as it is in the, in the other versions and in the original book.

[Andy Serkis]

Well, I appreciate you saying that. I mean, because quite frankly it has been, I mean it was quite shocking really, the response in the States. I mean, we knew it, we, we knew it was, it was going to be, it would open up a huge discussion. But, but I think it's been very interesting how people have taken Orwell and wanted to interpret it in their own ways. And he is, you know, he is, what he is, is an anti authoritarian is what George Orwell is. So it's, I don't mind the criticisms because he doesn't mind criticism. He would, he's, he was critic criticized for writing Camel Farm hugely. And it's so it doesn't surprise me. And I'm, I'm not you know what, what does annoy me is that people didn't see the film or haven't seen the film because they've listened to all the thousands and thousands or millions of attacks on it rather than making their own mind up. And that's, that's a shame. That's a shame when parents can't take their kids to see something because they been, they've actually been our minds have been polluted and told it's a particular thing. And that, that for me is the bit, the biggest, we're really the biggest shame about it.

[Simon]

And, and two other thumbs up. One, your use of George McCray's Rock your Baby, one of the earliest disco songs and seminal record, which I absolutely loved. And you're. And I, I hope this doesn't spoil the moment when people see the film, but the joke about the Notorious Pig I thought was, was, was one wonderful.

[Andy Serkis]

Glad you appreciate it.

[Simon]

How long are you gone for? I mean, because this feels, must feel like a long time ago and you know, in a place far, far away. Now there you are in New Zealand working on Lord of the Rings material and you're gone for how long? Andy?

[Andy Serkis]

Well, I've been, I've been here since we've been working on the film for about two and a half years. I've been in New Zealand since last September and the film is released in December 20, you know, 27. So I'm here for a reasonable chunk of into next year doing post production where we're three weeks into the shoot and it's. Yeah, I mean it's, it's great. I'm really loving it and it's such a wonderful, as I say, a wonderful crew and team and being reunited with lots of lovely people. But, but it's a long time. These films are big, big movies and

[Simon]

it's always a pleasure to speak to you. Thank you very much indeed for your time and all the best.

[Mark]

You sir.

[Andy Serkis]

Oh, thanks, Simon. Thank you and thank you for appreciating the movie. It means a lot lot.

[Simon]

Andy Circus talking to the end of the day in New Zealand, obviously, but he's determined to sell his film but he really did, you know, big coat, battered by the winds. But if you choose to film in New Zealand in the middle of winter, then that's what you're going to get. So we look forward to whatever he's going to come up, come up with, with the latest Lord of the Rings movie. But Animal Farm is out in cinemas. What did you think?

[Mark]

Well, let's leap right in with the, the point that you started with, that you just finished finished with there, which was, was the, the very, very negative response from the critics. And you said in America there has been a certain amount of negativity here as well. So here's the thing with Animal Farm and adaptations of Animal Farm. Orwell himself and I think one of the, the earliest versions of Animal Farm, it's Animal Farm a fairy tale. And Orwell himself had described Animal Farm as being a satirical tale against Starling in. And said that it was the first book in which I tried, with full consciousness of what I was doing, to fuse political purpose and artistic purpose into one whole. The question of exactly what that purpose is is always at the heart of any discussion of Animal Farm. And I thought it was, it was really interesting hearing Andy Serkis talking about how he first encountered it. And actually the thing that really struck him was the, was the pathos of the animal characters. And that says a lot when you look at the films that he's worked on. It was interesting that he said he came to after just having played Caesar in the Apes saga. And, you know, so that's, that's all connecting. So for people of our age, we will remember that Animal Farm was taught certainly in school. And there's a. There's a 1950s animated animal farm that. I didn't know this until fairly recently. I don't know why I didn't know this. That version was covertly funded in part by the CIA under the guise of the Office of Policy Coordination, who was a sort of branch of the CIA. Covertly, that was used to, quote, combat Communism. And they had covertly backed that animation on the grounds that they thought it was, you know, it was. It's an anti communist tale. And therefore wouldn't it be good for this to get out? And what happened was that movie opened, didn't do well at all, but then became a sort of set text in school. I say this because I remember being shown it at school. And of course, if you're a Clash fan, you know that there's images from it which are used on the front cover of English Civil War. There was also a version in the 90s which I didn't, I don't think I saw, which I think is listed as being live. I don't have any memory of it. And then with this version, there's this interesting thing that this version is distributed in the US anyway by Angel Studios. Now Angel Studios, you'll know the name because they were the studio that, that distributed Sound of Freedom, that lunatic, you know, movie about, I mean, just that crazy Jim Caviezel movie. And they have this sort of thing about doing Christian family values movies which have often ended up being aligned with a certain form of right wing politics. And so there is a certain thing about angel, but anything with angel on it that makes people suspicious. Although I should say they also distributed things like Sketch, that film, which I really, really like that the, the, you knew, you kn. The lead animated producer for it. It's a very fine film. So it's really not a, it's not a simple matter. So in the case of this, the, the interesting thing, the first interesting thing is, and you got right to the heart of this, what story is it trying to tell? And I thought it was really interesting that what Andy Serkis said was the things that he wanted to do was firstly to make something that could play to a young audience. And therefore, because I remember when, when I first talked to him about this, many, many had, he was talking about doing motion capture and then they said, well, we're not going to do that. We'll do it as animation. I learned this from your interview because motion capture will be a darker tale that you won't be able to watch for a younger audience. But if you do it in this kind of. And it's a fairly bright animated style, you know, it's, it is, it, it is, it's computer graphics, but it's, it's, it's. There's a slight Disney about it, about the way in which the characters look and the way in which the characters. It is something which looks like it's aimed at a younger audience. Now, you and I, I think, might feel differently about how young that audience might be because the story itself remains very dark. But obviously the animation style is saying, look, this is for a very young audience. And again, I speak as somebody who was shown Animal Farm at a fairly young age because it was a school text. So my first question to you is, how young do you think this play

[Simon]

days when we finish recording the interview, just as we were waiting for and his files to kind of upload to us. That's what he asked me.

[Mark]

All right, okay.

[Simon]

So he said, what age do you think? And I, I think that. And I remember we've had these conversations about various movies over the years. Everything depends on the, the kid. But I would say it's top end primary. That's what I said to Andy. And he said, I think it's slightly younger than that. They're ob. Aiming for slightly younger than that. But I think it's, it has, as I said in the interview, I think it's a terrifying film. I do, I do think there is that that hint of authoritarianism could come and we are complicit in allowing it to come. Element which I think would be lost on a kid of 6, 7, 8. But I think by the time you get to 9, 10, 11, you the, these things are worth talking to. My guess is that Andy was reading that bus on the, on the, reading that book on the bus when he was about that age. So I think, I think top end primary.

[Mark]

Okay, so we're in exactly the same ballpark here because that is also when I first came across it. And I think that's exactly the right age. So now the second question is what is it actually about? And as we know from, for a long time there was. Well, it's anti communist. Well, it's very specifically, it's anti, it's, it's about Stalin, Stalinism and it's about authoritarianism. And then when Andy was talking about what his version is about, he's saying it's also about the fact, obviously that the power corrupts, but it's about the fact that truth is no longer a value that we retain. We don't know what truth is and we don't value it in the way we used to. And then he said this thing which is, he said, you know, we're living in an era in which a villain can entertain you and make you feel, feel that they're on your side. Now here's the thing you could look at. Oh, it's a version of Animal Farm, therefore anti communist, distributed in America by Angel Studios, who have this reputation of generally being a right leaning thing. But the way I read it was the story in this version is entirely about the rise of popularism and authoritarianism. Now you said there's a car in it that is clearly a Tesla. I mean, it is clearly a Tesla. It's not vaguely a Tesla. It is absolutely clearly a Tesla. And the great big villainous presence behind it is a high tech mogul who is just corrupt and evil. Fine. The second thing, and you are absolutely right about this, is Seth Rogen playing that central role in that clip that you played at the beginning of the interview. What do we hear? Seth Rogen's Seth Rogen with that laugh that everyone know Seth Rogen. You know, he's funny, he's bigger than life. What does he say? He says these big, whiny loser. Loser. Who's the person that uses the word loser? Who's the person for whom losing is the greatest, the worst thing that can possibly have so bad that you absolutely cannot accept that you have ever lost anything? And then Andy Serkis went on to say, you know, nowadays, this corruption happens. It's not just through fascism and bureaucracy, but through entertainment. Entertainment. And I'm. That is Trump. And I read it very specifically as that. And I think that that's intentional. It's about the rise of popularism. It's about authoritarianism through entertainment, through the. Oh, look at him doing his funny dance. Look at, you know, the whole thing about, you know, if you want to be a pig like me. Am I just imagining this, or did you see this as well?

[Simon]

I think it's broader than that. I don't think it is just for. For the American audience, because I think there are echoes of this happening in a lot of countries.

[Mark]

Yeah, Popularism around the world, certainly, that.

[Andy Serkis]

That.

[Simon]

That specific clip was. Was very Trumpy. And Napoleon, as portrayed by Seth Rogen in this movie, is scared of looking weak and stupid and losing, as indeed. Yes, the weak and stupid thing is common to all dictators, but the. The losing thing is the giveaway line. Yeah, I think so. Clearly, it. It certainly has that agenda, but it's. I would say it's also broader than that.

[Mark]

No, so I. I agree that it's not just about that. I agree that it is a broader thing, but I think the broader agenda is broadly about popularism. It is about the rise of popularism and the way in which you can be corrupted by somebody who looks like an entertainer, who literally, in the particular case of Trump, was an entertainer, was a TV entertainer, and has now filled his cabinet.

[Simon]

And we are complicit in it. That's the point. We are the sheep. We are complicit. We allow our freedoms to be. And our dignity to be taken away.

[Mark]

Fine. And this brings me to my second question, which is what happens at the end? Now, as. And this isn't a plot. Spoiler. And honestly, anyone going to complain about spoiling the end of Animal Farm, get a life. Okay. Animal Farm ends with. Famously, the creatures outside looked from pig to man, from man to pig, and from pig to man again, but already it was impossible to say which was which. And that is the most chilling ending. Yes. The idea that you're now looking into and you cannot tell the difference anymore, that they have literally become the very thing that they strove to overthrow. And I think that that ending is chilling and brilliant. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. And films of Animal Farm have consist consistently not gone with that. They've felt the need to put a third act. And so in the, in the, in the version from the 50s, they. They then rise up and overthrow the new dictatorship. And in this version there is a whole third act. And you asked Andy Serkis what is that about? What is that third act about? And he said, we have to think smart, we have to find a way forward, you have to keep trying. I actually don't agree with that. I think that the power, the power of Animal Think Farm is that it's horrifying at the end. It's not that it then offers you a solution. As Andy said, he's not offering a solution. It's not that it's okay, we can all get together and rise up and overthrow the horror is that last thing. And I think the third act is a misstep. But what I don't think is that the first and second act are missteps. And I am baffled by the hostility that animal. That this version of Animal Farm has provoked in some areas because with the exception of the third act, which doesn't work for me at all, I actually thought that the bulk of the film was something that would play solidly to a top end primary audience and raise exactly the questions that Andy Serkis was asking, which is corruption, authoritarianism, the way in which you can be bamboozled by apparent entertainment and the way in which. Which somebody can say they're doing one thing and do completely the opposite. That they can say, I'm with you, I'm on your side, we're all together, we're all equal, but some are more equal than others. And I actually thought that it did capture that. Tell me what you thought.

[Simon]

Yeah, yeah. The last third is. Is problematic, I can see.

[Mark]

I think it doesn't work. I think it's more than problematic. I think it doesn't work.

[Simon]

Yeah. Because the bleakness is the point. Point. Yeah. Really despair is the point. And it's such a fantastic final line that it's. And. But I can see what he's trying to do because if you're playing to top end primary, they don't want a film that just goes, oh well, thanks a lot. They want to think that they have some kind of room for maneuver, that they have some, you know, there is the possibility that they can do something about it. And if you just Have a good kind of. That kind of dead hand at the end. That might not test well, to use that terrible phrase. So I can understand why they've done it. It's just that it does, you know, it is a bit messy, I think, at the end. Which is not to say that if we take that and that idea that Andy Serkis had in the interview, you have a. A family sitting down and watching it. You got a, you know, top end primary or teenager, an adult and a grandparent.

[Mark]

They will all enjoy it.

[Simon]

They will all laugh at the same time and I think they'll all be scared at the same time. And you'll have a pretty good conversation at the end of it. And there aren't many films that will do that. So, yeah, thumbs up for that is what.

[Mark]

Okay, good, good. I think we're broadly on the same page and I. And I. Aren't you slightly confused by just how negative the response has been?

[Simon]

Yeah, it kind of makes no sense to me. I mean, I knew that before I watched it and I was thinking, thinking, have I missed something? You know what? I think this is pretty good. Fantastic voice cast. It looks amazing.

[Mark]

Very good voice.

[Simon]

The story is very strong. It's very upsetting. And then it got all a little bit messy at the end. But anyway, so, yeah, clearly he's baffled by the extent of the ferocity. But then we're used to that kind of story.

[Mark]

In Strange Times.

[Simon]

You can sign up on Patreon to hear Mark pick his top films in which Andy Serkis is featured in our feature. That gives. Gives you some suggestions for thematic extended viewing, if that's really what you want. That's one frame back and that'll be happening a bit later on anyway, in case you need. I mean, there are jokes in Animal. Animal Farm.

[Mark]

There are.

[Simon]

I don't think there are any jokes in the original, but there are good gags in this one. Notorious Pig Being.

[Mark]

That's your favorite film joke of the year, isn't it?

[Simon]

Well, it's the one that I remembered at the end of it, certainly. But it does lead us on splendidly. Into the laughter lift. Here we go. Well, I mean. Hey, Mark, did you hear about. Did you hear about Elton John?

[Mark]

No.

[Simon]

He's bought a miniature treadmill for his dwarf rabbit. Okay, it's now a little. A little fit money now a little fit.

[Mark]

Oh, I see. Okay, fine.

[Andy Serkis]

Got it.

[Mark]

Fine. Yes. Sorry.

[Simon]

It's a little bit funny.

[Mark]

It's a little. The idea of. Just didn't get it because you sort of slightly swallowed It.

[Simon]

It was the delivery. Yeah, you just drew attention to that.

[Neil Ramji]

Thanks.

[Simon]

But anyway, some bad news now. I happen to stumble on the good lady ceramicist Herndor's dating profile on one of those apps. It's outrageous. I'm absolutely livid about the lies. It's the deception. I can't bear it, Mark. She's not easygoing and fun to be around. Also, Mark, how many Trump supporters does it take to change a light bulb? The answer is none. Trump said he did it and they clap in the dark. Which leads us nicely into Mark's last review. Mark, what is still to come? Ask EAN in just a moment. So the correspondence around the evil or otherwise of AI is growing week by week. So we've bundled a couple together. Can you bundle a couple? I mean, I think you just. If there's just a couple, then you can't bundle them, can you?

[Mark]

Yes, it's. It's a. Isn't it a brace? Is it brace, too?

[Simon]

Well, we braced a couple together.

[Mark]

Braced a couple together. Yeah. Fine.

[Simon]

For a feature that we're calling. A. I don't like that. Okay, Right. I thought that was underwhelming.

[Mark]

Simon Paul had a lot of time on his hands recently.

[Simon]

I think he's taking a lot of drugs. For sure. Ed Harrison says while listening to this with this week's POD and Mark's comments that AI thinks that he was in the Panic Brothers. I was. I was pleased to do a quick check and found that some AI in this case Gemini, has at least learned or is maybe just listening to the pod. There's a terrifying thought.

[Mark]

Yeah.

[Simon]

As per the attached screenshot, it now tells me that, quote, mark Kermode was never a member of the Panic Brothers. Moreover, it chastises it its AI ilk with quote. While artificial intelligence search engines have sometimes hallucinated that the famous British film critic was part of the band, the group was actually a two man acoustic comedy and folk duo. The actual history and connection between the broadcaster and the musical act involves mutual admiration and early career overlaps in the UK entertainment scene. End of quote. Very good. I find that more scary the fact

[Mark]

that it's correcting itself. Can I. Can I throw something in here very quickly, which is that I had an email forwarded to. To me from somebody who said, I've been trying to find your review of Executioner because according to AI, you absolutely loved it. And they sent me these three things from AI Mark Kermode famously called the British indie thriller Executioner my favorite film of the year. So Far Kermode praised the film for being unique indie achievement, highlighting its dark subterranean settings, blah blah blah blah blah. Then another one in his review on Kermode and Mayo's dad Take, film critic Mark Kermode highly praised the British indie thriller Executioner, calling it my favorite film of the year so far. Nope, I haven't seen it. I have never said that. It's completely not true. Review highlights Kermode lauded the project as unique indie. Yeah, no, I haven't. I mean, I've got nothing against the film. I haven't seen it. I've never reviewed it. So. Okay, yeah, so stick that in your AI pipe and smoke it.

[Simon]

Yes. Anyway, Ed Harrison, thank you for your email. Anyway, to which we say, hey, I don't like that Dear Hal and Gertie is a name Redacted email. I feel compelled to add my $0.02 on AI because it has already had a significant impact on me and people I know. I am a I am a copywriter. Until recently, AI felt like a distant, inevitable challenge. Then my design team was restructured, several colleagues were made redundant, and the new model was built around AI specialists and AI led creative work. Ironically, one of the leaders behind the change regularly shared AI generated images internally as examples of its potential. Designers and writers laughed at them because they were so poor. We mistook AI's limitations for job security. I don't think AI is inherently bad. The problem is how it's being adopted. Too often the people making decisions mistake cheap, fast and passable for good. Where creatives see mediocrity, executives see efficiency. My fear is that thoughtful and valuable work may struggle to compete with work that is merely inexpensive. Name redacted to which the only response can be a I don't like that. That's quite annoying. And to reference Simon Brew of Film Stories email a few weeks back in which he described how AI was stealing traffic from his excellent website, which is very much worth a visit. Or even better, an annual subscription, apparently. We say again, hey, I don't like that. I think we have to drop that. But send in your ever more frequently occurring instances of the robot takeover, good or bad, to correspondencevanovayer.com we may need now this says we may need an AOT meduk. I like that for any good, positive uses of AI. Am I Is there a reason that I'm supposed to Now a duck is East Midlands Nottingham specifically to say they so I'm I don't. I don't know what that's all about. Do you know what that's about.

[Mark]

I don't. I don't know what that's all about.

[Simon]

Anyway, so if. But positives for AI? Absolutely, yes. Please tell us the Robot Takeover. Good, the Bad and the ugly. Correspondence at Kevin A. Man.com Movie Review. Tell us something that will cheer us up.

[Mark]

It's a documentary, so whether it'll cheer you up or not, and I think this will do. So this is Ask E. Jean. This is a documentary directed and and produced by Ivy mirrorpole and takes its title from the advice column formally written by Eugene Carroll, of whom I first became aware, and I presume you did, too, during her legal battles against Donald Trump. So the film. Because I don't, you know, I'm not American, and I wasn't aware of her work before that. So the film covers her early life from, you know, which she won awards for being a cheerleader to becoming a gonzo journalist. Befriended and, you know, perhaps mentored by Hunter Thompson. Her style was, in your face, confrontational. Found her feet when she became a magazine advice columnist, as we agony aunts, we call them here, had wit and style. Ended up with a TV show, which I'd never seen clips of before, but in which there are plenty of clips of it in this documentary in which she's a, you know, she's a real TV presence. She was, as she describes herself, a kind of, you know, a sort of a firecracker presence, you know, shooting from the hip, living life to the full until there is a sexual assault in the mid-90s. So she told people closest to her at the time about it, but she didn't say anything publicly until 2019, in the wake of the MeToo movement. What we hear in the documentary is that she said that when the MeToo movement happened, she felt like she had to come forward. And her accusation was that in the mid-90s, Donald Trump had sexually assaulted her. 1995, 1996, the date was uncertain in a changing room in the Bergdorf Goodman store in New York. And she made the accusation in an article for New York magazine and in a book. The article, I think, was called Hideous Men, and the book was called what Do We Need Men For? And Trump did what he always does. He denied the charge. He said, it's all fake news. It's all fake news. I've never met E. Jing. I don't know who this woman is. She's completely motivated by politics and money. I know that, even though I. You don't know who she is. He also said famously, and you'll know a lot of this because it's been in the news that of course he didn't do it. He didn't sexually assault her because she wasn't his type. Despite the fact that during one of the depositions, he's shown a photograph of her and mistakes her for his former wife, who obviously was his type. So, as E. Jean Carroll says in the documentary, she had never intended to sue for the. But when he called her a liar, she had no choice but to sue for defamation. Here is a clip.

[E. Jean Carroll]

There's no such thing as destiny. Dear listener, we ourselves make our lives all the time. I'm writing, writing, writing, and then I write this little quiz, and Esquire buys it. I got one taste of New York and I thought, wow, I was as happy a being as ever existed. All my dreams were about becoming an advice columnist. And then Roger Ailes gave me my own TV show.

[Mark]

You don't really care who comments on anything, because, I mean, you comment on everything.

[E. Jean Carroll]

If you were concerned about being dragged through the mud, why would you choose to sue Donald Trump? Because he called me a liar, and I called, couldn't let it stand.

[Mark]

And that is really the center of the documentary, is that she sued for defamation. So the doc contains footage from the depositions, including Eugene Carroll being examined by Helena Haber, which is just fairly grotesque. You know, she says, as a woman, I understand that some of these questions are going to be difficult, and then asks exactly the kind of questions that prevent survivors of sexual assault coming forward, forward, because they understand that this is what's going to happen. In that first case, the jury reached a decision. In 2023, after deliberating for less than three hours, the jury in that first case concluded that Carol did prove that Trump was responsible for sexual abuse, also concluded that he defamed her with false statements made with actual malice in October 2022 on his truth Social posts. And they awarded demanded her $5 million in damages. Trump, of course, being Trump, refused to pay, continued to slander Carol, did some more, demanded that the verdict be overturned. That he never. He said, I never raped anyone. Then the verdict proved that. Because the verdict said it was liable for sexual assault. And after hearing the appeal against it, Judge Kaplan, and I'm reading this verbatim because it's important, Judge Kaplan ruled that the finding that Ms. Carroll failed to prove that she was raped within the meaning of the New York penal law does not mean that she failed to prove that Mr. Trump raped her, as many people commonly understand the word rape. Indeed, as. As the evidence at the trial makes Clear. The jury found that Mr. Trump in fact did exactly that. He continued to defame her. She continued to fight. She sued him again in 2024. The jury deliberated for three hours, awarded her $7.3 million in emotional damage damages, 11 million in reputational damages, and 65 million in punitive damages totaling $83 million. The jury found that Trump had committed sexual abuse and forcible touching, two of the three elements of the battery case. And at the end of the doc, it is explained that so far she hasn't received any of the money. Now, actually, in the very recent past, like just in the last few weeks, there has been a news story that says that she has has received the 5.6 that was put into whatever you call it when you're appealing a jury. So as far as I understand, some money has now finally changed hands. But here's what's important. The documentary is terrific because firstly, I knew very little about Eugene Carroll other than the Trump case, which is this awful thing that somehow the Trump case just. That was all I knew. And then you watch the documentary and she's so, she's exciting and funny and witty and very kind of self questioning and, you know, it's a, it's good to spend time in a company to find out about what she did. The second thing is it is a very important portrait of a woman standing up against a system which is clearly loaded against her and in which the, the it looks like you don't do this because you won't win. Because this is what happens if anybody ever claims that they were sexually assaulted. There is so much going against them. There's a reason why the percentage of cases that actually are successfully prosecuted is so small. Small. But she does and she wins. And she not only wins, she wins twice and she wins big. Despite which the person who was found to be liable for this assault is currently for the second time, the President of the United States. And when the movie was finally released in 2025, Eugene Carroll said this. The reason we made this movie is because people in this country do not know that Donald Trump has been held liable for sexual assault. My next door neighbor has no idea that what Donald Trump did because their Facebook feed is different. So if this movie could be seen by people, it might make a difference. That's why we're working night and day to get this movie out. And it was very hard to get it out. In fact, some of the backers of it asked for their names to be removed from it because they were terrified of the repercussions of what would happen. Because as we know, Trump is merrily going around going after all his enemies, going after journalists who write completely correct stories about the corruption in his government. So I think the reason this documentary is important is that it was made to publicize the fact that people forget that this actually happened. This case happened, and it was prosecuted and he was found liable. It's a civil case, but he was found liable. And I think it's really interesting to watch this and go, oh, yeah, we should all be reminded that that is who is currently sitting on the throne in the United States.

[Simon]

Is that a cinema release for Ask Eugene?

[Mark]

It is, but I imagine that its primary life later on will be. It will be on streaming, but it is being. I mean, it's a document, it's a small documentary release, but I would, I would really encourage people to seek it out. And also, I think it's interesting that it's out in the same week as Andy Serkis Animal Farm, because I think that some of the things that, that the films are addressing that are completely different films, that idea about the way in which you can just be boldly lied to by a big, noisy, rich entertainer, I think there is a crossover there. Oh, and incidentally, just before anybody does, don't bother to send me an email saying, stick to cinema. You know, you're not a politician. I don't read those.

[Simon]

Yeah, also, you're reviewing a film.

[Mark]

So about politics.

[Simon]

Just before we go, there's time for a quick what's up? On message from Neil, who's from Cinema Rediscovered.

[Neil Ramji]

Hello, it's Neil Ramji from Watershed in Bristol inviting you to the 10th anniversary of Cinema Rediscovered. Happening this weekend. Across five days, we're showcasing beautifully restored classics, forgotten gems and films rarely seen on the big screen. Among the highlights, a stunning new 4K print of Tarkovsky's Sacrifice and the UK premiere of Elaine May's Michael and Nicky. If you're looking for something a bit more playful, catch Josie and the Pussycats on the Bristol mega screen with a pre show drag cabaret. And we're also celebrating 50 years of Aardman with special screenings and events.

[Simon]

All right, interesting.

[Mark]

50 years of Aardman's Fantastic, isn't it, Neil?

[Simon]

Thank you very much indeed. And that's it for this week. This has been a Sony Music Entertainment production. This week's team, Jen, Eric, Josh and Heather. Producer was Dom the redactor Simon Paul in take two. We're directing you to the overflow car park for more conversation about current film releases. If you've enjoyed what you've heard so far, there is plenty more waiting over in take two including five Question Film Club three Questions, you, Majesty and Questions. Don't forget People of Bristol will be at the Bristol Beacon on December 6th. Tickets are available via the link in our show notes. You can get take to ad free along with full full back catalog and I thought it was a fullback, but it's a full back catalog and the chance to vote on future episodes by signing up to our Patreon. Just search for Kerm a patron and join the church. Mark, what is your film of the week?

[Mark]

Well, because I think there is a really good point which is that this needs to be seen because everyone's forgotten this. Ask E Gene we're back next week

[Simon]

with Mark's review of Spider Man. Brand New Day. I think I will bestow a year's ultra membership to our Correspondent of the Week. Let's do Yorgos from Ithaca because we can't have many Ithacans listening to the show. And Yorgos, who started the whole thing off today, you are our Correspondent of the Week. Thank you very much indeed for listening. More on take two.

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