Is DISCLOSURE DAY the best Spielberg in decades? With EMILY BLUNT & COLMAN DOMINGO

Summary

Kermode & Mayo’s Take – Episode Summary

Is DISCLOSURE DAY the best Spielberg in decades? With EMILY BLUNT & COLMAN DOMINGO
Release Date: June 11, 2026

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Main Theme & Purpose

This episode is dominated by anticipation for and discussion of Steven Spielberg’s much-hyped new film, Disclosure Day, featuring special guests Emily Blunt and Colman Domingo. Mark and Simon deliver a full run-through of recent releases, with in-depth reviews, banter, and a robust interview segment. The podcast also explores themes of empathy in cinema, changing box office trends, film nostalgia, and a spirited reflection on Spielberg’s career.

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Key Discussion Points

1. Podcast Opener & Warm-Up (00:49–06:26)

• Mark and Simon riff on YouTube comments, negative feedback, and their live shows.
• A lighthearted exchange about hedge cutters in North London and 1960s pop music (“Hedgehoppers Anonymous”).
• Discussion of their lunchtime live shows, with production team actors reading out below-the-line YouTube comments for comic effect (03:12).
• Banter about childhood TV shows (Joe 90, Gerry Anderson themes).

2. Overview – What’s On This Week (06:01–07:42)

• Reviews coming up:
  • The Fall of Sir Douglas Weatherford
  • Boogie Nights (reissue)
  • The main event: Disclosure Day (the new Spielberg film)
• Guests: Emily Blunt & Colman Domingo from Disclosure Day

3. Review – The Fall of Sir Douglas Weatherford (12:52–21:25)

Summary:

• A British bittersweet black comedy starring Peter Mullan.
• Blends history and fantasy, with commentary on grief, aging, and cultural memory in a modern world obsessed with spectacle.
• Peter Mullan’s performance and Gazelle Twin’s eerie score stand out.
• Mark’s take: “...you can pretty much guarantee it's not like anything else that's playing on screen.” (18:14)

Notable Quote:

“There is a very well respected tradition of counter-programming, which is that if there is a really, really big movie out... you release something that's completely the other end of the scale.”
— Mark Kermode (12:52)

4. Box Office Top 10 (23:54–37:42)

• Extensive run-through of the UK chart, highlighting current viewing trends.
• Mark notes “classic counter-programming” as indie/arthouse films open against Disclosure Day.
• Listener mail shares insights (e.g., The Backrooms is praised for representing YouTube-born talent; Masters of the Universe stirs nostalgic joy).

Notable Quote:

“What was remarkable was the audience... a reminder that sometimes the magic isn't on screen but in the audience around you.”
— Listener Tom in Doncaster on Scary Movie 6 (34:25)

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Main Feature: Disclosure Day

Special Interview: Emily Blunt & Colman Domingo (39:44–50:10)

Highlights:

• Both guests express awe at being in a Spielberg sci-fi project.
• Emily describes her role: Margaret, a Kansas TV weather anchor with a mysterious, empathy-based gift (“She sort of represents the theme of empathy in the film...” 43:59).
• Colman on his role as Hugo, a philosophical “puppeteer” advocating for information disclosure:

  “Hugo believes in the possibilities of leaning into the other and not being afraid of it... don’t be afraid of the things that you don’t know.” (44:19)

• Mark/Simon explore the film’s central theme: empathy as superpower, a direct response to divisive voices in society (“Imagine... here is a guy who's been doing this fifty years and he is still enchanted with the world. He still believes in compassion, that empathy is a superpower.” 66:12).
• Excellent insight into Spielberg as a director—spontaneous, intimate, and protective of his actors.
• Emily Blunt reflects on Jaws as her favorite Spielberg film:

  “It's not about a shark. It's about fear, and it's about the unknown.” (48:11)

• Both recount seeing Disclosure Day for the first time:

  “I just sat there overwhelmed with emotion... You really believe in our humanity and the possibility of what we can be.”
  — Colman Domingo (49:05) “I forget I'm even in that movie because you're just swept along for the ride. I felt limbless.”
  — Emily Blunt (49:41)

Notable Moments:

• Percy Pigs as pre-interview snack: “Whenever I'm in the UK, gummies are my thing. You guys have the best gummies...” — Colman Domingo (40:31)
• The studio “military operation” for a Spielberg junket: “a military operation, isn't it?” (50:20)

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6. In-Depth Review: Disclosure Day (51:11–71:21)

Plot & Themes:

• Spielberg’s return to alien encounter, inspired by recent Pentagon UFO debates.
• The film weaves action and warmth: Margaret (Emily Blunt) gains uncanny empathetic powers; Hugo (Domingo) orchestrates information races; Colin Firth as a menacing government agent; Josh O’Connor as a mathematical prodigy.
• References abound: Close Encounters, E.T., Contact, Harry Potter, Arrival, Under the Skin.

Kermode’s Critique:

• “No one does grand scale adventure and action like Steven Spielberg.”
• Praises the action (“properly nail-biting... no one does this as well”), performances (Blunt, Firth, Domingo).
• Criticism: The third act “makes no sense at all,” requiring “a whole levitation, lifting system of disbelief” (59:41).
• Ultimately finds the film enjoyable but “so old fashioned — not in a wonderfully nostalgic way, but in a kind of 'I need something better than that at the end.'”
  • Cites digital animal effects as “shonky”
  • Science/religion tension explored but not as profound as Contact or Arrival
  • Lens flare homage to classic Spielberg, but almost self-parodic

Mayo’s Response:

• “I enjoyed it because there was enough Spielbergian magic...”
• Recognises its flaws (old-fashioned plot elements, weak VFX), but values the warmth, empathy, and ‘magic’ the film brings—especially in a divisive world.

  “A film whose headline plot is empathy is a superpower is on the side of things that are good.” (67:32)

Notable Quotes:

“...if you thought at the end of Close Encounters it required a willing suspension of disbelief... honestly, this requires a whole levitation, lifting system of disbelief...”
— Mark Kermode (59:41)

“[Spielberg] is still enchanted with the world. He still believes in compassion, that empathy is a superpower.”
— Simon Mayo (66:12)

Timestamps:

• Emily Blunt & Colman Domingo full interview: 39:44–50:10
• Disclosure Day review/discussion: 51:11–71:21

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7. Additional Segments

Boogie Nights Reissue Review (77:58–88:37)

• Celebration of Paul Thomas Anderson’s breakout 1997 film.
• Mark extols film’s heart, humor, and technical prowess, noting “it is the best thing [Mark Wahlberg] ever did, ever will do.”
• Explores the tension of Wahlberg’s later ‘apology’ for the role.
• Notes ensemble strength: Julianne Moore, Philip Seymour Hoffman, John C. Reilly.

Listener Question on BBFC & AI in Classification (74:22–77:47)

• Raises concerns about the British Board of Film Classification possibly using AI and reducing transparency.
• Mark promises to investigate, drawing on his professional connections.

Community Shoutout (88:37–89:27)

• Northern Irish screening event “Migrant Women Seen and Heard” mentioned by listener Una—highlighting contemporary social context.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• Emily Blunt on empathy (43:59):
  “She sort of represents the theme of empathy in the film. She’s really bestowed the most amplified version of this.”

• Colman Domingo on Spielberg’s influence (44:54):
  “I do feel that I am kind of a surrogate for Steven’s philosophy. He’s got that sparkle, that belief, that hope in humanity...”

• Mark Kermode on Spielberg magic (57:19):
  “It’s a good romping adventure movie... all really good, popcorn, Friday night multiplex. Pleasing.”

• Mark Kermode, critical but fair (66:57):
  “...in a world in which Elon Musk and the rest of it is happening, a film whose headline plot is empathy is a superpower is on the side of things that are good.”

• Simon Mayo, on seeing Disclosure Day with his family (64:13):
  “If the kids were still in the house, I would say, right, let's all go and see this, because there is some magic that is happening here.”

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Timestamps – Important Segments At a Glance

• 12:52 — The Fall of Sir Douglas Weatherford Review
• 23:54 — Box Office Top 10
• 39:44 — Interview: Emily Blunt & Colman Domingo
• 51:11 — Mark & Simon’s Disclosure Day In-depth Review
• 77:58 — Boogie Nights Reissue Review
• 74:22 — Listener email on BBFC & AI

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Tone

• Witty, conversational, self-deprecating, and occasionally “pretentious” (Kermode’s own words).
• Lively banter and contrasting perspectives: Mark, the critical cineaste, and Simon, the humanist, audience-minded host.

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Overall Takeaways

• Disclosure Day is classic Spielberg: visually grand, emotionally resonant, sometimes corny, with empathy as its core theme.
• The episode is at its best in the interview and film review, exploring not just cinematic craft, but also how films reflect and inform the world’s social climate.
• Fans of both cinema art and sheer moviegoing fun will find plenty to enjoy in the episode — and Disclosure Day is recommended, if not as a new Spielberg masterpiece, then as a crowd-pleasing, compassion-centered adventure.
• For those unable to attend a cinema, the re-release of Boogie Nights is firmly recommended for revisiting “the film that broke Paul Thomas Anderson big.”

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Film of the Week:
"Disclosure Day" – for its sense of wonder, warmth, scale, and timely message.

Transcript

[Simon Mayo]

Before we begin, a quick reminder that you can become a Vanguardista and get an extra episode every Thursday, including bonus

[Mark Kermode]

reviews, extra viewing suggestions, viewing recommendations at home and in cinemas, plus your film

[Simon Mayo]

and non film questions answered as best we can in questions.

[Mark Kermode]

You can get all that extra stuff via Apple Podcasts or head to extratakes.com for non fruit related devices.

[Simon Mayo]

There's never been a better time to become a Vanguardista. Free offer now available wherever you get your podcasts. And if you're already a Vanguardista, we salute you.

[Mark Kermode]

Hello? Hello, Simon Mayo, it's Mark Kermode.

[Simon Mayo]

Password? Sorry, State the password.

[Mark Kermode]

What password?

[Simon Mayo]

Exactly what an imposter would say.

[Mark Kermode]

Simon, it's Mark. We host a podcast together.

[Simon Mayo]

Public information.

[Mark Kermode]

No. You've been watching Mission Impossible again, haven't you?

[Simon Mayo]

Maybe.

[Mark Kermode]

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[Simon Mayo]

You'll get an extra four months free on the two year plan. And it's risk free with Nord's 30 day money back guarantee. Check the link in the description. This Father's Day. Do more with dad and spend less with low prices guaranteed at the Home Depot.

[Mark Kermode]

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[Simon Mayo]

grill and accessories like the next Grill 5 burner for just $299. So you can spend more time together while he becomes the grill master he was always meant to be. Or build memories with savings on top brand power tools so you can tackle projects side by side, gift more and do more together. This Father's Day with help from the Home Depot. Exclusions apply to homedepot.com pricematch for details. I say, Mark, that's a jolly good couple of. Was that like a poster and there's an Elvis Presley drawing?

[Mark Kermode]

No, no, that's a. It's. That's a. That's a photograph. But it's an old Elvis Presley poster. It's kind of like a. You know, it's quite a classic Presley image. And then Below it is this fantastic photo of Elvis combing his hair.

[Simon Mayo]

Oh, I thought it was Morrissey.

[Mark Kermode]

Yeah, very good. Because somebody wrote underneath. I went below the line on YouTube. I'm really sorry. I always feel like Ewan McGregor diving down the toilet in Trainspotting.

[Simon Mayo]

Correct.

[Mark Kermode]

In order to retrieve the suppository. And the suppository that I found was someone going, mark Cuomo says he doesn't listen to Morrissey anymore. Why has he got a big picture of him on the wall? It's not Morrissey, it's Elvis Presley, you dimwit.

[Simon Mayo]

You could make your life so much better by not doing that.

[Mark Kermode]

Except we have a whole feature in our special live show which we're doing after this, in which members of the production team act out below the line comments.

[Simon Mayo]

So they do it so you don't have to.

[Mark Kermode]

Yeah. May I just say to anybody, if you're not already, you know, ultra Vanguardista Patreon, if you're not already tuned into this, every other week, Simon and I do a live show after the recorded show. It's a lunchtime to naughty lunchtime treat. And the highlight of it is that members of the production team reenact comments below the line comments from our YouTube channel. And they're basically just versions of I hate Mark because. But they're all left by persons who probably should. Should have just walked away from the screen rather than letting us know what they think. But it is people who should be

[Simon Mayo]

banned by the new government. The government's only looking at banning under 16s. It should also ban all those people who go. Leave messages on. On websites below the line.

[Mark Kermode]

It always reminds me of that brilliant bit from Blazing Saddles when Gene Wilder says, look, these are, you know, these are ordinary people, you know, salt of the earth, morons.

[Simon Mayo]

Now there'll be letters. Can I apologize in advance? Today appears to be hedge cutting day in this particular part of showbiz North London, where all the hedgehutters. Hedge cutters. I'm not sure how many there are.

[Mark Kermode]

How many hedge cutters would a hedge cutter cut if a hedge cutter would cut hedges?

[Simon Mayo]

Yeah, well, they're all here. So if there's a kind of a buzz, then. And you kind of thinking, what's the buzz? Tell me what's happening? When do we ride into Jerusalem? Anyway, that's. It's the hedge cutters of North London. They're all here.

[Mark Kermode]

That does sound like. Like a Billy Bragg song. The hedge cutters of North London.

[Simon Mayo]

Hedgehoppers. Anonymous. They were good. They. They had one hit it's good news week. And then that was it. And then they moved on.

[Mark Kermode]

Sorry, how did that go?

[Simon Mayo]

Head Choppers Anonymous. They had one hit.

[Mark Kermode]

It was Hedgehoppers.

[Simon Mayo]

Hedgehoppers Anonymous. That was what they were called. It's like a piece of 60s bubblegum.

[Mark Kermode]

I don't remember it at all.

[Simon Mayo]

It's good news week. Someone's let off a bomb somewhere contaminating the atmosphere. It's good news week. You know, it was one of those Eve of destruction songs in mid-60s.

[Mark Kermode]

I can't remember anything. I have no memory of that at all.

[Simon Mayo]

Well, you wouldn't have because it was before your time. It's before my time as well. It's just, you know, kind of thing that you inhale over the years. What A bit like asbestos really. You just can't get rid of it. And it's not good for anyone. And I would never play it on the radio. So when we get to discussing movies and things like that, what are you interested in today?

[Mark Kermode]

It's an interesting week. We have the fall of Sir Douglas Weatherford, which is a strange sort of bittersweet black comedy starring Peter Mullen. There is a reissue of Boogie Nights, the Paul Thomas Anderson movie about which I have much to say because I love that film. And you may have noticed that there's a new Steven Spielberg movie. It's called Disclosure Day. And that brings us to our very special guests. Plural.

[Simon Mayo]

Yes. We have Colman Domingo and Emily Blunt, two of the many stars of the. The new Spielberg film. Although Emily Blunt is kind of, I think, you know, she's the one that's getting the rave reviews, I would say, on balance. And Josh o'. Connor. In fact, it's Brits everywhere in that. In that movie with only Colin Firth allowed to do his own accent. But because he's.

[Mark Kermode]

Because he's a baddie.

[Simon Mayo]

That's right. But Josh o' Connor and Emily Blunt are very American and Coleman Domingo is American and playing an American. And you'll hear our conversation. My conversation with them fairly shortly. What else? I've got Strictly Ballroom here, but I

[Mark Kermode]

can't remember why it's in take two. So in take two there is a. There's a reissue of. Of. Of Baz Luhrmann's breakthrough feature. We'll be doing that. I have to say when we come to five question three questions yous Majesty Film Club. We're going to be doing an absolute treat of a film in which I have asked you to prepare by bringing along a book that we co wrote and I hope You've done that. Well done. Although that's the Korean edition.

[Simon Mayo]

It's the one I'm going to be reading from.

[Mark Kermode]

Are you okay? Fine. Well, that will be particularly. That'll be a particular treat. Simon reads his own review of a film in Korean.

[Simon Mayo]

Yeah, or if I pick up the wrong version, it'll be Chinese. But anyway, a reminder, you can get Take two with no, no more of our brilliant ads. Some people really, really like the ads that we do and some people don't. But anyway, on Take two, you can get none of them by heading off to our Patreon page and we're running a 90% off.

[Mark Kermode]

90%.

[Simon Mayo]

I mean, why don't you just give it away? Give it away. Give it away now. Anyway, it's a 90% off promotion until the end of the month. You use the code June90, which is almost like Joe90, but that won't get you anything. June90 gets you 90. 90.

[Mark Kermode]

90% was June90, Joe90's sister, who had her own spin off series.

[Simon Mayo]

Very. That would, I'd watch that. Yeah, I would definitely watch that.

[Mark Kermode]

I loved Joe 90. I so wanted to have the thing when, you know, you get in a revolving ball and then you put a pair of glasses on and, you know, stuff that would just, that would honestly, that would have been so great, wouldn't it? Don't you think?

[Simon Mayo]

That is, that's, that's the kind of AI, that, that's essentially what you're going to be able to do. You're going to have all this knowledge, you're going to put on a special set of glasses and suddenly you'll know exactly how to do open heart surgery.

[Mark Kermode]

But also the other thing about Joe 90 that was brilliant was there was some reason that it was the kid that they could do it to and it was something like, because his brain wasn't already full of rubbish, he had more space to know all this stuff. And it was just like, what, What a strange idea.

[Simon Mayo]

Yes.

[Mark Kermode]

You know, with the child with the super glasses and the super knowledge because his brain has got enough space and it's like the kind of Johnny Mnemonic idea. I loved that show and I loved the theme. I loved all the, all the Gerry Anderson shows. I loved all the Gerry Anderson theme tunes.

[Simon Mayo]

An email from Matt Woodhouse who says, dear it ends on. And a brighter note. Long term listener, second time emailer, first in the egg and spoon race in 2018, aged 44. Already a lot of information.

[Mark Kermode]

Thank you, Matt.

[Simon Mayo]

As if camping wasn't bad enough, great Friends and a bar make it just about bearable. A trip to a campsite near Ross on Wye a few years ago was marred by us being woken in the night. And you'll see how this ties into the show, by the way, very shortly, being woken in the night by a kaleidoscope of blue flashing lights and the sound of many vehicles. We'd chosen this site as it was on the river and you could hire canoes for a day as a way of exploring the waterways, which meant the children might be happy and entertained for a few minutes before the endless moaning resumed. That's a bit jaded, I think. Astonishingly, a lovely time had been had by all. Though the sobering realization of what was now happening changed the atmosphere for all they were clearly searching for a body. Thankfully, after a few hours of our emergency services searching the river and the surrounding area, it turned out that it was just, what do you think?

[Mark Kermode]

A bike?

[Simon Mayo]

An attention seeking horny peacock, which had been heard and reported by another camper shouting help. Not used to the sound of said feathered show off trying to attract a mate. They'd mistaken their scream for that of a child calling for help. Fair play to them for trying to avert a disaster, though. Never mind the thousands wasted conducting the search, lives risked and more importantly, our already terrible night sleep ruined.

[Mark Kermode]

Wow.

[Simon Mayo]

Love the show, Steve, yours grumpily and still sleep deprived Matt Woodhouse, who's still not caught up by the sound of it from that interrupted night. So. So last week. No, it was two weeks ago. You talk about the sign of a peacock sounding like someone crying for help. Then to prove the point, we had the actual.

[Mark Kermode]

No, we did it in the same week. Our production team was so on top that I said in the introduction that a peacock sounds like a child shouting help. And I did an impression of it, which is help.

[Simon Mayo]

Help.

[Mark Kermode]

And you said, that's ridiculous. And I said, I bet you our top production team can get a sound of the peacock. And they did, really swiftly and they played it and it sounded uncannily like my impression of it. And you then went on to a whole riff about how I'm better at impersonating animals than human beings, which seems

[Simon Mayo]

fair enough, I think, but also, that is, that is. You could imagine how, I suppose if you're camping and you hear that sound and you're not used to it, do you ignore it? If you think that sounded like a kid shouting for help. What do I say?

[Mark Kermode]

It's remarkable. It really does sound like that. And you said what? It Actually says, help. And I said, well, when you play it, you listen to it. It is remarkable. In fact, our top production team have it queued right now.

[Simon Mayo]

That's amazing. I don't think I call 999 on the basis of that. But anyway, it's a very good thing. And Matt, thank you very much indeed for pointing that out. So we'll talk Spielberg shortly. But there's another film which is just, I suppose most films are not coming out this week because Spielberg is coming out this week. And so we get some other interesting kind of quirky little films. Would that be right, or is that patronizing?

[Mark Kermode]

No, not patronizing at all. Because there's a. There is a very well respected tradition of counter programming, which is that if there is a really, really big movie out, the thing you don't want to do is to release a moderately big movie against it. What you do is you release something that's completely the other end of the scale. Because it's like not everyone will want to see Disclosure Day. So they may want to see the fall of Sir Douglas Weatherford, which is this new film by Ashton Donne, who is a filmmaker born and raised in Edinburgh, made a splash with British by the Grace of God and Kingdom Come. This is his feature debut. And it is a strange, melancholy, wistful drifting in the third act into something eerily surreal sort of black comedy. So Peter Mullen stars. And if Peter Mullen starring is not a recommendation enough for you, you're listening to the wrong show. Okay, so Peter Mullen stars. He's Kenneth. He is a widowed devotee of the titular sir, whose ghost, incidentally, provides a kind of from beyond the grave narration. And the narration tells us that although this character has been forgotten, Kenneth is his last chance to redeem his name and place in history. What we know of Sir Douglas Weatherford we know from Kenneth, because Kenneth works in this visitor center as a tour guide. And his tours involve him dressing as Sir Douglas Weatherford, who he reveres as an 18th century philosopher from whom he says he is descended. So he's very, very proud of the fact that he's actually connected to this guy. And according to Kenneth, Sir Douglas Weatherford was a great man, not least due to his breakthroughs in medical science, images of which adorn the local pub. Although, as the film plays out, we discover that his version of that character may be somewhat rose tinted, because actually, when we hear from the character, he's very, very dyspeptic. But no one cares much about Kenneth or Weatherford until in the middle of one of his tours explaining the history, a van pulls up containing this kind of Game of Thrones style TV show which is shipped up into the village and is going to take over the village, thereby usurping Kenneth and his love of real history with this whole fictional Game of Thrones style thing. Here's a clip.

[Simon Mayo]

So Douglas Weatherford played a central role in. I am actually a descendant of Sir Douglas. We actually share a birthday. Although I say so myself, I think I'm looking pretty good for a 282 year old. Thus it is the question of the age.

[Colman Domingo]

The time's going.

[Mark Kermode]

Keen to capitalize on the show's arrival,

[Simon Mayo]

Ember Fair, all that fantasy, wizard dragons.

[Mark Kermode]

You are standing in history. But no one cares that they're standing in history. All they care about is the Game of Thrones style TV show. So Kenneth is outraged, particularly outraged when the visitor center is effectively taken over by this television show and he's now asked to take part in all this sword and sorcery nonsense. So he sets about mounting his own rival homemade video production to tell the real story of Douglas Weatherford and put his new generation of, you know, fans to shame. Now, according to the to the official description of the film, it says Fall of Douglas Weatherford is a dark comedy exploring the thin line between history and fantasy. I would say that it's also about the intransigency of old age, the burden of grief and loneliness, because a lot of it is about somebody who has lost things and is trying to invest everything they have in something else. It's partly about the anxiety of kids caring for parents who seem to be losing the plot, and also the sort of the cosmic tragedy of feeling that you're the only person who remembers history in a world in which everyone's attention span is about 5 seconds. It's a very odd film. And when I said this thing about counter programming, it is a perfect example of counter programming because believe me, it could not be further from being disclosure day. And on the one hand, if you've got a great big science fiction movie happening over here, this seems like the perfect time saying, that's not what I want. What I want is, is something different. And whether you like this movie or not, and actually I did for the most part, you can pretty much guarantee it's not like anything else that's playing on screen. Clearly, Sean Donnelly wrote and directed. It has got a very singular sense at times. I was reminded of the kind of the pointed scabrousness of Martin McDonagh, for example, but this has got a real kind of. There is a real sense of melancholia under it. And a lot of that comes from the fact. I think Peter Mullen's performance is so great. I mean, whenever you see Peter, you've said this before. You see an actor's name on something, you think, okay, there's going to be something of interest in here because it's that person, you know? You know, it's going to be of value. And what. What he does is he really sort of embodies that on the work. On the one hand, he's cantankerous. On the other hand, he's sad and lonely and on. And it's. And there's. There's a lot of very dark humor and dark comedy in the piece. But you kind of go into the story because of his involvement in it, the way it's shot. The DP is David Gallego reminded me a little bit of you. Remember when we were talking about Savage House last week and saying that it was kind of like Barry Lyndon with leeches?

[Simon Mayo]

That was very much your line.

[Mark Kermode]

It was very much my line, which I'm very proud of, which is why I just brought it out again. But it's that thing about downtrodden majesty. Something that was once grand and is now not so grand. And there is this kind of going on in the film. There's this tension between this apparently grand history and then this thoroughly mundane and quotidian modernity. And the other thing that I really liked about the film is this. The score is by Gazelle Twin. Now, do you know Gazelle Twin's work at all?

[Simon Mayo]

No.

[Mark Kermode]

Okay, so Gazelle Twin is Elizabeth Bernholtz, who is Ivan Novello nominated composer, producer, vocalist, who on her website is described as multidisciplinary artist whose experimental composition and unconventional production style draws on diverse musical musical roots, from sacred choral to early electronic and contemporary dance dance music, and combines the sound of some ancient choral hymn with something altogether more modern, uncertainty. Now, the thing is that I really like Gazelle Twin's work. I had interviewed Gazelle Twin when I was doing the show at Scala, and I promise you, if I still had the Scala show, I would be playing Gazelle Twin's contribution to this film over and over again because it's got this score which is really eerie. It sounds like voices, but there's synths and other things involved in there. And the whole.

[Simon Mayo]

There's a.

[Mark Kermode]

There's a particular track called Tempest Lament. And it's really eerie and really kind of strangely Ethereal and sad and cronky and off kilter. And I know that I am particularly interested in how much music can bring to a film, but I was really conscious watching this and an awful lot of the. Of the strange off kilter atmosphere of it was working because of this terrific score by. By Gazelle to. And it reminded me actually quite a lot of the vocal score from There's a film called Mouthpiece that I on this show a few years ago. And that score gives it a real sense of heart and soul and also sadness. And that combined with Peter Mullen was with were the things that really, really drew me. And as I said, it's an odd film. It is definitely not for everyone. And there's a kind of point about 2/3 of the way through in which it tips over much more sort of heavily into a kind of surreal sensibility. And it is really strange. But I saw it immediately after watching Disclosure Day and it was the perfect kind of counterpoint because it was so much a different sensibility of him. As I said, it does have a very distinct sensibility.

[Simon Mayo]

A while back I wrote down the phrase quotidian modernity. Did you actually say that? I think you did.

[Mark Kermode]

I did. I'm sorry, but I am nothing if not pretentious. Just. Just look below the line on the YouTube channel.

[Simon Mayo]

Yes. Huge corner. There you go.

[Mark Kermode]

I've been in Suedes Corner quite a few times.

[Simon Mayo]

Is it still a feature?

[Mark Kermode]

I don't know. I mean, I. I confess that I haven't. I haven't. I haven't bought Private Eye for a little while. I can't you not had a bath if that's. That is you not. It's a very good callback. Have I not had a bath and a beer in a private eye? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Simon Mayo]

Good.

[Mark Kermode]

Yeah.

[Simon Mayo]

Although that makes it sound definitely slightly dodgy.

[Mark Kermode]

Yeah, it does, it does. But no, I have been in. I've been in suits corner many, many times. And it's a badge I wear with great pride.

[Simon Mayo]

All right. Still to come, box office top 10 Mark talking about Boogie Nights and Disclosure day. Special guests, Emily Blunt Coleman Domingo talking spill Spielberg in just a moment. Hey, Mark. I was. I was online shopping the other day

[Mark Kermode]

and he got me thinking.

[Simon Mayo]

You know how in Jurassic park they bring dinosaurs back to life using cutting edge technology?

[Mark Kermode]

Yes.

[Simon Mayo]

That's how I imagine people build online stores.

[Mark Kermode]

What, by using dinosaur DNA?

[Simon Mayo]

Well, not specifically, but it certainly feels that complicated. And it's a right place pain to remember all of your details.

[Mark Kermode]

And that's why smart businesses use Shopify. There's no need to get your wallet out. Just hit the purple pay button and complete your checkout with one tap. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world, from household names like Heinz and Mattel to brands just getting started.

[Simon Mayo]

It helps find customers with easy to run email and social media campaigns. And if you get stuck, Shopify is always to hand with award winning 24. 7 customer support.

[Mark Kermode]

See fewer carts go abandoned and more sales go with Shopify and their Shop pay button.

[Simon Mayo]

Sign up for your one pound per month trial today at shopify.co.uk take go

[Mark Kermode]

to shopify.co.uk take

[Simon Mayo]

study and play come together on a Windows 11 PC and for a limited time, college students get

[Mark Kermode]

the best of both worlds. Get the unreal college deal, everything you need to study and play with select Windows 11 PCs.

[Simon Mayo]

Eligible students get a year of Microsoft 365 Premium and a year of Xbox

[Colman Domingo]

Game Pass ultimate with a custom color Xbox wireless controller.

[Mark Kermode]

Learn [e-mail] studentoffer while supplies last ends

[Colman Domingo]

June 30th terms at aka mscollegepc.

[Simon Mayo]

Right then we have a box office top 10 at number 13, Savage House,

[Mark Kermode]

which we were just talking about in the previous review of Sir Douglas Weatherford. I mean, I really enjoyed it. I thought that Richard E. Grant was having terrific fun. I thought that Claire Foy was the real heart and soul of the film. And again, I mean, as with Sir Douglas Weatherford, this is out in cinemas at the same time that Disclosure Day is going to be out in cinemas. So it is classic counter programming Void Stuff on Patreon.

[Simon Mayo]

Hello Mr. Stuff or Ms. Stuff? I'm void Stuff, that's who. This is from someone called Void. First name Stuff, second name.

[Mark Kermode]

Okay. Is that a real name do you think?

[Simon Mayo]

I suspect. Well, let's say that it is.

[Mark Kermode]

Okay, great.

[Simon Mayo]

Someone has gone through life. Hello, I'm Void Stuff. I'm glad to see Savage House got film of the week last week as I had a blast watching it on Saturday. While a rather top heavy opening dumps exposition like a Dickensian novel, the characters that populate the film's Bleak House are memorable enough to keep everything zipping along nicely, even with a hour runtime. I'd love to see with nail with Richard E. Grant's character here, Chauncey. Yeah, character here, Chauncey. Go head to head. Somehow I think this is the first character in Grant's repertoire that could give that miserable old accidental holiday maker a run for his money in a battle of pretentiousness and I say that as a major compliment. Stefan on Patreon. The film may have taken inspiration from too many sources. It also seems to want to make sure this does not go unnoticed. What initially is amusing becomes tiring over time. The ending is fundamentally unsatisfactory. Trying too hard to be a moral tale. End a little bit earlier and spare us. What is another example of Peter Glads is the director and writer basically saying, just in case you missed what I was trying to say and do, I wish the film had been more condensed. The acting keeps the film alive. Sadly, the edit does not. Savage House number 13.

[Mark Kermode]

I really enjoyed it.

[Simon Mayo]

You know, Pedi is at number 11.

[Mark Kermode]

Yes. So this is a Telugu language Indian sports action drama. Wasn't press screened. If anybody's seen it, let us know.

[Simon Mayo]

Correspondenceodemare.com Tuner is at number 10, which

[Mark Kermode]

I think both you and I enjoyed. Obviously hasn't set the box office alight, but I do think the performances. The performances are good. And it was a. Last week we had an email from somebody who said that it ought to have been called Baby Grand Driver, which I thought was a joke that I wish that I had made.

[Simon Mayo]

I think Tina will be watched for a long time and I think, you know, it'll have its life and maybe it'll be gone next week, but I think when it turns up on a streaming service, people will think, oh, this is good. I'm enjoying this.

[Mark Kermode]

I also suspect it's one of the films that when Leo Woodall is absolutely everywhere in some blockbuster movie, people will go, did you ever see Tuna? Because that was actually one of his best performances.

[Simon Mayo]

And it's kind of a timeless thriller, really. It's not essentially based in any period, but I do think it's very good. Devil Wears Prada 2 at number nine. It's number ten in America.

[Mark Kermode]

Sixth week of release. Has done very, very well, I don't think. I think it's great. Sorry, you.

[Simon Mayo]

I was just zipping on here. Sheep Detectives are number eight.

[Mark Kermode]

Enjoy it very much. Really liked it. Very odd.

[Simon Mayo]

Michael is at seven here and seven there.

[Mark Kermode]

Didn't enjoy it very much. Really didn't like it. Not odd.

[Simon Mayo]

Number six, Star wars, the Mandalorian and

[Mark Kermode]

Baby Yoda or Michael Benteen's Potty Time in Space. I refer everybody to the finest review of the film which was delivered by your child one, who was a great fan of the series and concluded that the film was basically a bunch of TV episodes strung together every half an hour.

[Simon Mayo]

Yes, he enjoyed it also.

[Mark Kermode]

Yeah, he enjoyed it. It's fun.

[Simon Mayo]

Number five. Number two in America is Obsession.

[Mark Kermode]

Well, Obsession is now. How much money has it taken at the box office? Read that figure, Simon.

[Simon Mayo]

£10,333,516.21.

[Mark Kermode]

And it cost very, very little. And it is. It is now sort of part of this discussion that everyone's having about, ooh, has the world changed so profoundly that it's now possible for these movies to do this well? And the answer seems to be, well, it hasn't happened suddenly. I mean, it has been happening for a while, but, yeah, I mean, I thought Obsession was terrific, but I think it's great that it's done as well as it had. But we still have the number four ahead of it, which is.

[Simon Mayo]

Which is Backrooms, which, in its second

[Mark Kermode]

week of release, has taken. How much?

[Simon Mayo]

It has taken 8,000,600. No, 8,000. Oh, 8,651,800. £881 and 3p.

[Mark Kermode]

It's. I'd just like to add to everybody, Simon, is. Is adding the. The pence numbers as a joke. It could be true. It could be true, but it isn't true. But that is. I mean, just look at that. Number five and number four, those two films, which, between them wouldn't fill the catering budget of the biggest movies that are being released at the moment, have, between them taken 18 million. It's astonishing.

[Simon Mayo]

So backrooms at 4. Number three in America, the backrooms, says Charlotte, age 38, in London, which is how she signs her email. The backrooms left me feeling completely discombobulated. It was deeply unsettling and genuinely frightening, and it made me feel scared in a way I don't think I've ever experienced before. What a remarkable achievement for a film. More than that, though, it gave me a real surge of excitement about the potential of YouTube as a platform for discovering diverse hidden talent. It offers young artists and filmmakers opportunities to showcase their work in ways might once have been impossible, opening doors for people who may otherwise have been overlooked or never had access to the film industry. So Backrooms is at number four. There's more on back rooms in the overflow car park. Sign up for Extra takes on patreon.com and you use June 90 until the end of the month for 90% off. This is going to be repeated until you're fed up with the fact and you actually just go, oh, okay, I'll just sign up, then.

[Mark Kermode]

All right.

[Simon Mayo]

Number three is. Masters of the Universe is a new entry. Nathan Pavey on Patreon says Masters of the Universe was silly fun, lots of throwbacks to the original cartoon toy line. It's not going to win any awards, especially not in cgi, but sometimes you need a bit of nostalgic, ridiculous fun, eddie says. What I can't quite pin down is why I liked it so much. Perhaps it was the mood, or simply a strong hit of nostalgia, not just for he man, but for the broader 80s fantasy style it channels unashamedly camp, unbothered by seriousness. Rundown as I may be, I was swept up in it and even got chills when Adam finally got the power. It made me feel like a kid again, something I haven't experienced in a cinema for quite a while. And Eamonn says for one listener, the real magic of this Masters of the Universe film isn't just nostalgia, it it's that it captures the spirit of the original filmation cartoon, where action always came with a moral core. Director Travis Knight leans into that tone, delivering something that's big, strange and joyfully sincere, with W characters, bombastic synth heavy scoring and a cast that's fully committed, particularly a standout skeletor. The result is a film that feels like a less like a cynical reboot and more like a heartfelt continuation, one that lands especially well for those who grew up with it but still has enough energy and imagination to pull in new audiences. Finally, Dr. Smith on this I thought the soundtrack was phenomenal. Brian May's guitarists were epic, the lush rock lines pushed the film along, the needle drops were spot on, the music pushed the heroism through the whole story. The soundtrack needs some critical acclaim. Love the movie as a whole, but let's show some love for the music. So that is for Masters of the Universe. And number three, well, we did show

[Mark Kermode]

some love for the music when reviewing the film and I agree. I think it's colorful, fun, entertaining, throwaway stuff. It is half an hour too long, but it's, you know, it's jolly. And it is Jared Leto's best performance. Again, to repeat. You can't see his face and his voice doesn't sound like him, but it is his best performance. I thought it was perfectly fine. I don't feel strongly about it either way, but it's very nice to hear that people have had such positive reactions to it. Because if you are a devotee of Masters of the Universe and you have an emotional investment in it, then it's great that it seems to have to have paid that back. So good. I'm really pleased.

[Simon Mayo]

Number two is the amazing Digital Circus Colon the last act and it looks as though it's taken like 200 quid more than Masters of the Universe.

[Mark Kermode]

Yes. So basically this is the final installment of this animated web series, Australian animated web series of which I knew nothing at all until it turned up in cinemas, partly inspired apparently by the writings of Harlan Ellison. It's going to come to streaming on the 19th. So just last night I just just dipped into a little bit of the previous series which seemed very strange and I will then I'll review this when it comes, when it comes to it. But it was basically because it's the last installment, they put it into cinemas and it's done astonishingly big business. So once again everything is in flux. The rules do seem to have changed quite profoundly. Funnily enough, I bumped into a friend of mine who works in distribution just in Oxford Street. Great. Just yesterday. And I said, how's it going? And they were saying, well, a particular film had opened and completely tanked and they'd been surprised because they thought the film would do quite well and it really hadn't at all, hadn't touched the sides of the box office. And he said, but in the meantime, Amazing Digital Circus is cleaned up. And I said, because I'm me, what's Amazing Digital Circus? And that was the first I heard about it.

[Simon Mayo]

DAVID ON Patreon the Amazing Digital Circus was, unfortunately for me, a letdown ending to a very good and promising TV series. I have to admit though, that because I came to the series very late, literally like two days before the film came out, I wasn't as emotionally invested in the characters as many people are. The show deals with a lot of issues such as anxiety and badmin, abandonment and so on, all things that I'm lucky enough not to have in my life. So I'm very much aware that I'm not the target audience for the show. And whilst I enjoyed the series, the finale didn't quite deliver on the potential darkness that had been teased before.

[Mark Kermode]

The the description of it is follows a group of humans trapped inside a circus themed virtual reality simulation where they're overseen by an erratic artificial intelligence while coping with personal traumas and psychological tendencies. And from, from, from the brief bit that I've seen, it looks quite interesting.

[Simon Mayo]

And number one is Scary Movie six. This from Tom in Doncaster. Dear Mark and Simon, since COVID it's been rare for me to be in a truly full screening. Dune Part two, Oppenheimer Barbie, Wicked. So it was a real surprise booking Scary Movie and finding the screen nearly sold out. Critics haven't been kind. So expectations were low. And yes, the film itself is only okay. There are a few laughs, especially the get out parody, but nothing remarkable. What was remarkable was the audience. It's been a long time since I've watched a comedy with a full house and the film clearly landed big laughs. People sharing moments, quoting lines as they left. I walked out with a spring in my step. Not because the film was great, but because of the shared joy in the room. A reminder that sometimes the magic isn't on screen but in the audience around you. Colin Scott says this latest installment is the most miserable experience I've ever had in a cinema. So on the one hand, literally zero laughs. I could make a funnier parody in my own front room. And I am not a funny person. So I disagree with Mark's assertion that this is probably the best in the series. It really isn't. Please never let awareness anywhere near this sort of word processor or camera ever again. So more discussion on current films in the overflow car park. But that's Scary Movie six at number one.

[Mark Kermode]

Well, interestingly enough, a critic friend of mine, just as I was going into the screening of Disclosure Day, said to me, you know, you were very kind to Scary Movie 6. And I said, well, I don't know that I was because what I was saying was I do think it's probably the best of the series. I know that obviously one of the listeners doesn't agree with that, but because I could see that there were jokes in it that would be crowd pleasing Friday night fare. And from that first email and I'm again just nothing but delighted that you had such a great experience. And I love the fact that you've described it as being the magic isn't on the screen, the magic is in the room. Because there are jokes in it that I could see would land well with an audience. And I, and I, I called it right when I said, you know, I don't like it at all, but I can see that it may, may well have a big opening weekend. My suspicion is, and I remain to we meant to see how this plays out, that next week it'll be virtually gone. Like it will have dropped three or four places and then that'll be it that it was, it was absolutely the Friday that it opened weekend. But again, I'll say the key issue for me is that all the things in it that are funny hark back to the old Wayans brothers back catalog, back to things like Hollywood Shuffle, I'm gonna get you sucker, that kind of stuff. And they have nothing to do with horror movies. They it it's just a shame that it this has to be strapped around a horror movie spoof because that is the one thing that the scary movie series has never understood is scary movies

[Simon Mayo]

and box office fans. Don't forget that. Take Ultra, which is available exclusively to Patreon Ultras. We have a feature called Grossly Remarkable which is a monthly box office feature where you you get to sound like a right clever clogs when you go down the pub because you'll have lots of facts and figures. And of course Mark, don't forget you can use your June 90 not June 90. You use your June 90 to get 90 off until the end of the month.

[Mark Kermode]

I can't believe 90% off 90.

[Simon Mayo]

I mean not just 85. Anyway, that's enough corporate nonsense. We talk with Emily Blunt and Coleman Domingo. It's Spielberg. It's Disclosure day and everything is next.

[Mark Kermode]

Ray Ban Meta glasses Take the friction out of travel. Move through the world with your hands free and your head up. Hey Meta, where's the nearest metro station?

[Simon Mayo]

Closest metro to you is Union Square, about three blocks away.

[Mark Kermode]

Hey Meta, text mom. I'm getting on the train now.

[Emily Blunt]

Sending message.

[Mark Kermode]

Juggle your itinerary.

[Simon Mayo]

Take calls and listen to music with open ear audio. No digging for your phone, no stopping for a map. Just you and your glasses. Ray Ban meta iconic style meets Meta AI Available at Walmart and other authorized retailers.

[Emily Blunt]

This episode is brought to you by Prime.

[Simon Mayo]

What if you had one more chance with the one that got away? Sam, you Came home. Based on the best selling novel from Carly Fortune. Every Year after follows childhood friends Sam and Percy as they reunite in the dreamy nostalgic lakeside town of Barry's Bay. Love can be hard to find. So if you're lucky enough to find

[Mark Kermode]

that person, never let go.

[Simon Mayo]

A second chance at first love. Every Year after. Now streaming only. Only on Prime. So I guess this week are two of the stars of the new Steven Spielberg film Disclosure Day. Emily Blunt and Colman Domingo. Do we need to go? So Sicario, of course. Young Victoria. Devil Wears Prada, Looper. Mary Poppins returns Into the woods, a quiet place, Oppenheimer and so on. Colman Domingo, two time Tony winner. Fear of the Walking Dead. Ma Rainey's Black Bottom, Color Purple. Rustin Sing Singer Emmy for Euphoria. Oscar Noms for Rustin and for Sing Sing. So these are two top class performers and they are about to perform for you after this clip from Disclosure day.

[Mark Kermode]

If this is all their plan, you Go.

[Simon Mayo]

You can be sure it's in their interests, not ours.

[Colman Domingo]

That's a very lonely way to look at the world.

[Simon Mayo]

Oh, don't condescend to me.

[Colman Domingo]

I'm listening to you, Noah. Something I've learned quite a bit about from your friends. Yes. They regard empathy as an evolutionary advantage, as the foremost evolutionary advantage, in fact, the core of animate existence. Our rejection of this understanding is leading us to our extinction.

[Simon Mayo]

That is a clip from Disclosure Today. I'm delighted to say that common Domingo, Emily Blunt have joined us. Welcome to the show.

[Mark Kermode]

Hello.

[Colman Domingo]

Thank you.

[Mark Kermode]

Hello.

[Simon Mayo]

What are you eating?

[Emily Blunt]

Be honest.

[Colman Domingo]

I was eating a Percy pig before this.

[Emily Blunt]

What were you eating before you started huffing?

[Colman Domingo]

I actually have a Percy pig in my hand as well. Just you walk down the corner outside

[Simon Mayo]

with a big bag of Percy pigs.

[Colman Domingo]

Listen, whenever I'm in the uk, gummies are my thing. You guys are gonna be the best gummies. She's very worried about my energy today. Insane.

[Simon Mayo]

So on the subject of the film, is there anything in your career that is as buzzy and as exciting as a new Spielberg film? With the hint of science fiction and aliens? I mean, it's just extraordinary.

[Emily Blunt]

I mean, come on. Steven Spielberg defined this genre. This is his genre. And so we screamed with excitement when we got the call to meet him. Then when we read the script, when you say we. Me and Colman. Yeah, because Colman and I are together.

[Colman Domingo]

We're joined at the arm.

[Simon Mayo]

Congratulations.

[Emily Blunt]

Jon and Broll are fine with it.

[Colman Domingo]

Absolutely.

[Simon Mayo]

They're absolutely fine with it.

[Emily Blunt]

Yeah, we were just. Just, weren't we?

[Colman Domingo]

Just, like, truly delighted, really.

[Emily Blunt]

Kind of blown backwards by the idea.

[Mark Kermode]

Yes, truly.

[Colman Domingo]

Because the idea, I mean, it's such a huge film. I mean, it's typical Spielberg. He takes you to the wildest parts of your imagination, that innocent child in you. But also he takes you to worlds that you. That are unknown. That. The anticipation that he has in his movies. And now we're actually in it. So it's kind of cool.

[Simon Mayo]

Coleman, tell us about Hugo.

[Mark Kermode]

Tell us about your character.

[Colman Domingo]

Hugo is someone who knows way more than everyone else. He's sort of puppeteering, and really there's a. The whole film is basically a race for information, whether or not we want to expose information or withhold it. And he's on the side of. He believes he has reasons why it should be out there in the world, and so you'll find that out in the movie. But he's someone who's a bit more. I think he's the philosopher and the heart in that way of like this whole idea. And I think there's other sides who are looking at more, you know, commercializing things and a bit more rigid about rules.

[Simon Mayo]

Emily, tell us about Margaret. So you present the weather on the. On the local. So we're in Kansas. So it's a thriller, it's the present day, it's Kansas. You're on the telly.

[Emily Blunt]

She is the weather girl at a TV station in Kansas, Kansas City. And I think she's a restless, quite scatty, tangential person trying to find her sense of belonging, sense of self. Can't quite grasp purchase of what she wants in life. And I think she's just looking for really what she was made for. And I don't think she ever anticipated she was made for the kind of journey that she goes on on disclosure day. But I think she's a very classic Spielberg character. Those people who are in a situation where they're way over their heads. I think Steven loves outsiders. He loves people who are sort of white knuckling their way through something extraordinary.

[Simon Mayo]

What can you say about the gifts that your character has? Cause very early on in the film, we see you turning up at the TV station. You start to speak and then you start making noises. You've spoken about this, but. But what can you tell us about that gift and what on earth you're doing?

[Emily Blunt]

Well, it's sort of what to say. So I don't give too much away, you know, as I talk to you. But she has def. A gift has been bestowed upon her. Something has been triggered from an experience she had in her childhood that she has a foggy, blurry recollection of and everything is suddenly exposed on national television. And really at the core of the. She sort of represents the theme of empathy in the film. She has really bestowed the most amplified version of this.

[Simon Mayo]

The film is kind of about empathy, really. And your character, Colin, seems to be also one of the most empathetic characters out there. I know Stephen Spielberg has talked about empathy being a superpower, which kind of means that Elon Musk is not gonna like this film, but who cares?

[Mark Kermode]

But you are. You are both.

[Simon Mayo]

You represent very powerful examples, empathetic people.

[Colman Domingo]

Hugo believes in the possibilities of leaning into the other and not being afraid of it. Because I think there's always some thoughts about, like, oh, that the things that are outside of ourselves are going to harm us in some way, but that's actually not the reality. We have to actually lean into it and get to understand and know. And so I think we can parcel that out. Whether it's about like non human life form UAPs or it could be your neighbor, you know what I mean? To lean into the thing and to like, don't be afraid of the things that you don't know. Lean into it.

[Simon Mayo]

Is there any extent to which, Coleman, you are sort of representing Steven Spielberg?

[Colman Domingo]

That's a great question.

[Simon Mayo]

Are you Steven Spielberg in this film? Because it felt to me as though you were the director of this thing, this is your show.

[Emily Blunt]

He's like the puppeteer.

[Colman Domingo]

He is the puppeteer in many ways. I don't know what Stephen would say to that, but I do feel that I am kind of a surrogate for Steven's philosophy. I feel like that's him. He's got that, that sparkle, that belief,

[Emily Blunt]

that and that hope in humanity, really.

[Colman Domingo]

That hope in humanity, truly. So I feel like possibly a surrogate. I'd like to believe. So when Stephen would direct me in certain scenes, I would see that sparkle in his eye and that hope and belief and I literally would just zone in on that and say, I'm gonna play a little bit of that.

[Simon Mayo]

Can I ask you both what it's like to be on the set and being directed by one of the all time greats? He just walked out, walked down the corridor. The thrill and excitement of people just for sure as they see him. But when you're being directed, when you're in the set, whether it be an intimate close up scene or whether it be an action scene, what is that like?

[Emily Blunt]

I just feel he maintains the intimacy and he protects you very much. He sort of shields you from the iconography that comes with him. You know, he sort of wants you to be blind to that. And it's just in his incredibly humanistic tendencies, you know, he just is able to be a friend to you, be emboldening to you. And he's obsessed with actors. He's very curious about them, about what you might bring. There's great spontaneity to his sets. You don't feel straight jacketed by him. Nothing seems overwhelming. Even though some of those sets were absolutely ginormous and extraordinary. But it's his, it's his nature that protects you from the ripple effect that you just felt as he walks down the corridor. He wants to be one of you. I did find his spontaneity so exciting. You know, you would come in every day and you'd kind of walk through it and stagger through it and he'd watch what you wanted to do in the scene and then he'd walk away for a bit and he goes, okay, this is what we're gonna do. And he knows exactly the shots and how to convey.

[Simon Mayo]

Just wondering how you can be spontaneous in a movie like this. Cause from the outside, we'd imagine that it's all rigid. You say this, you say this.

[Colman Domingo]

Well, he's so prepped, of course. I'm sure he's For a year for this film. He made a lot of decisions with his department heads, et cetera. But in the day as well, he's sort of looking for that special, that magic, that thing that you can only get when the divine resides on set. You're like, oh, this is. Now I'm in the room with all these people with Emily and Coleman and Josh and Colin and Eve. And this is what's now sparking his.

[Emily Blunt]

And he's sort of always looking for an inn. And like, what's the thing that has surprised him that he hadn't anticipated? And he's just learned over the years that that is his superpower is just to spot something. And you see, he just drops in on it.

[Colman Domingo]

Yes, I'm gonna focus on this. I'm gonna rack focus to that. And that wasn't set up. A lot of it was set up. But he's like, oh, no, now I see you're giving me other ideas of what the story is.

[Mark Kermode]

Yeah.

[Simon Mayo]

At what stage did you say, Emily, that Jaws is your favorite film?

[Emily Blunt]

I mean, I think probably from about the age of like, my early 20s was actually when I came back to it. Cause I remember being absolutely traumatized by it when my dad brought it home when I was bit A. About 8, I think. Cause he wanted to watch it because he'd seen it many times. He loves that movie. I was horrified, terrified by it. I was definitely a victim of Spielberg when it came to the ocean.

[Mark Kermode]

And I'm still.

[Emily Blunt]

I'm still really uncomfortable in the ocean.

[Mark Kermode]

I'm like.

[Emily Blunt]

But then I started watching it in my early 20s. And then John and I, my husband and I became completely obsessed with watching it. And we've watched every behind the scenes you could imagine on. And I think what I love about it is it's not about a shark. It's about fear. And it's about. And it's about the unknown. And I think it's about. Not only is there this360. You feel it visually, their isolation at sea, but it's their own emotional isolation and how they deal with fear. That's. It became a performance piece for me more than anything.

[Simon Mayo]

Finally, there's so many things that we. We could pick up on. But when you got to see this picture with everything added in, with the effects and John Williams score, Coleman, what did you did.

[Emily Blunt]

Did you watch it alone for yourself?

[Colman Domingo]

I watched it alone. I watched it alone in the Steven Spielberg Theater at Universal.

[Simon Mayo]

Did you have Percy Piggs with you?

[Colman Domingo]

I didn't have any Percy Pigs. So I was wildly out of. I was too nervous, but I really was nervous and I really. I was jumping out of my seat and I was filled with. It's as if I didn't read the script. I knew what was gonna happen, but there was so much things that I didn't know. And then by the time I got to the end, I just sat there and I sat there overwhelmed with emotion. And I was trying to figure out why was I sobbing like this. And I called Stephen immediately and I said, thank you so much. You really believe in our humanity and the possibility of what we can be. And I thought that was. That's the most beautiful thing that I felt.

[Simon Mayo]

And Emily, when you saw it all

[Emily Blunt]

put together, I saw it with Josh, and the two of us sat there gripping each other and yelling and laughing. And I think we forgot that. It's a real gift where as an actor you can go, oh, I forget I'm even in that movie. Cause you're just swept along for the ride. I felt limbless. I couldn't even walk. I was so thrilled.

[Simon Mayo]

It's a fantastic ride. I can't wait to go and see it again.

[Emily Blunt]

Oh, good.

[Mark Kermode]

Thank you.

[Simon Mayo]

Emily Coleman, thank you so much for talking to us.

[Emily Blunt]

Thanks so much.

[Colman Domingo]

Thank you so much.

[Emily Blunt]

Get your pussy pigs out.

[Colman Domingo]

Done.

[Simon Mayo]

A Spielberg junket is just astonishing. The numbers of people that were around there were incredible. Absolutely incredible. You're used to them. And then you see a movie like

[Mark Kermode]

this and you realize, a military operation, isn't it?

[Simon Mayo]

Oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. And I said to. As I was sort of taking a long time gathering my stuff together, I said to Emily, just by saying Jules is not about a shark, you do realize that you've just lit a problem again. Which we had sorted and put to bed because Stephen did tell Mark and I that it is about a shark. Of course it's about a shark. And then she. Then you come on and then you say that, and you just spoilt it for everybody. Anyway, so we had a laugh. And clearly, I know that they're very good at what they're doing, but it. There was a great atmosphere in the room. Coleman was Terrific. I hadn't met him before, but they just. Just seemed to be like a very good bunch of people who clearly enjoyed being part of one of the movies of the year, you know.

[Mark Kermode]

Yeah, yeah. Okay. So I'd like to take a chunk of time for us to discuss this, if that's okay, because obviously it is the big movie of the week and you've seen it and we've just done that interview, so this won't be brief. Okay, so Disclosure Day. Alien Encounter, a sci fi adventure from Steven Spielberg, of course, whose back catalog includes the genre defining ET Close Encounters, more recently. AI in that I said more recently, but more recently than those films. So apparently Spielberg was inspired to return to the alien visitation theme after reading an article in the New York Times called Glowing Auras and Black, the Pentagon's Mysterious UFO Program, which had rekindled his interest in the subject. And there's been a lot of stuff about Spielberg saying, you know, I do believe in alien visitation. On the case of this, he originated the story as he did on things like, you know, Poltergeist and Goonies. But the script is by David Kep. David Kep's writing credits. He has some great writing credits, but they include Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, which co wrote the Dan Brown adaptations Angels and Demons and Inferno, which, as you know, I'm not a fan of, and most recently, Jurassic Park Rebirth, which, as I said when we read the film, is one of the worst written films I've ever seen. Apparently for Disclosure day, he did 42 drafts of the screenplay.

[Simon Mayo]

Yeah, it's incredible.

[Mark Kermode]

Which leaves one wondering what the 43rd one would have been like. So, as you said brilliantly in that interview, it's an action movie about empathy in which aliens, as we heard in that clip. So this isn't a plot. Spoiler. Consider empathy as the strongest evolutionary power. So Emily Blunt is Kansas City TV weather anchor Margaret Fairchild. When I hear Margaret Fairchild, I hear Morgan Le Fay. I don't know whether that's just me, but it seems to me to, you know, the. The sort of enchantress from the King Arthur, you know, the Arthurian legend. Anyway, she has an encounter with an exotic bird. This bird flies in through the window and looks at her. And after this, she suddenly finds herself the human equivalent of the Babel fish from Hitchhiker's Guide. She can speak and understand any language. More importantly, she appears to be able to almost read people's minds and know exactly what they're thinking and how they're feeling. And what they need. So she becomes the most profoundly empathetic person in the room. Empathy is a superpower. Josh o', Connor, meanwhile, is this nerdy cyber specialist Dan, who seems to be. At the beginning, we meet him at a wrestling match. He's on the run from the authorities, having somehow purloined something of great value to them, which is to do with the disclosure or enclosure of information about alien landings. Then we have Colman Domingo, who is Hugo, who is the disclosure advocate, who is. He described the story as being a race for information story. And Emily Blunt's character calls him in the film the man who knows everything. So basically, you know, the most, the ultimate Basil Exposition. Domingo himself described the character as a puppeteer and you described him as being the Steven Spielberg on screen. He's basically.

[Simon Mayo]

He's the author there.

[Mark Kermode]

He's the author, he's the director, he's the guy who is there to explain everything. Then you have Colin Firth at his most sinister with a sinister beard as Noah Scanlon, who is this spook who is on Josh oconnors trail, clearly has hidden issues of his own and is deeply, deeply beardy and weird. And then you have Josh o' Connor's partner Jane, who's got a secret of her own about her own past. And her past directly links to one of the things that disclosure day does, which is a discussion about if we discovered that there are aliens, would it cause all religion on earth to basically have an existential meltdown? Which incidentally is a subject which is addressed quite profoundly in Contact, which is a film that you and I both love. There is the very clear thing set up about Jodie Foster the scientist and Matthew McConaughey, the kind of the evangelical character. And can science and religion coexist? So first things first, this is a Spielberg movie. No one does grand scale adventure and action like Steven Spielberg. There is a scene in this film involving two cars and a train that is properly nail biting in a kind of dual meets the French Connection kind of way. I mean, it was really, really gripping. And it's, it's, you know, no one does this stuff as well as Spielberg. There are tense chases, there are equally tense standoffs. There is mystery and intrigue aplenty. There is even a moment in which it effectively does the invisibility cloak from Harry Potter. And incidentally, the thing, the alien artifact that is being passed around is clearly a Harry Potter wand, isn't it? I mean, they hold it like a wand, it glows like a wand.

[Simon Mayo]

Yes. Let's get Ralph Fiennes in to explain

[Mark Kermode]

it one more time to explain that. What is it? Was it the Elder Wand? What was it called? The thing that he had clearly never heard of when you asked him where it was. Came from. So it's kind of. I mean, yes, it's space aliens, but it's also Harry Potter. Now, all this, and I want to be absolutely clear about this from the. From the outset, okay? This is all really good, you know, popcorn, Friday night multiplex. Pleasing. And I don't mean any of this as a negative. You go along to see a Spielberg movie with action and adventure and stuff, and you are going to get it because he delivers. And big screen.

[Simon Mayo]

Get the biggest screen and the best sound system you can find. Find, yeah.

[Mark Kermode]

And get it, you know, get a. Get there early. You know, stock up. And the performances are terrific. I. I have always absolutely loved Emily Blunt, but I think that. I think Colin Firth is really terrific in this. I think he's. I think he is doing Sinister Beatty really, really well.

[Simon Mayo]

So.

[Mark Kermode]

So the first thing to say is it's a good romping adventure movie. Now we get into the. The more problematic area. For me, the story clearly had. There's echoes of Close Encounters inasmuch as you have central characters who, due to an earlier engagement with aliens, find themselves possessed of some mysterious knowledge that is driving them nuts until they discover what the purpose of that knowledge is. Now, that is basically the plot of Close Encounters. Okay? But in Close Encounters, the knowledge that is given to Richard Dreyfus character is. It's the. He has the image of Devil's Tower, but he doesn't know what it is. He's just got this shape in his head. It's got this. You know, it's this distinctively shaped landmark thing in. I think it's north Wyoming. And this image obsesses him so much that his life falls apart. The character's life falls apart. He starts making it out of mashed potato, then he starts making it out of mud. Everything falls apart. The family completely collapsed because he's been driven nuts. And it's a really, really haunting idea with a kind of somewhat bleak ending. I think spoiling cl. Close Encounters is perfectly fine, which is that in the end, the character leaves his family and goes off in the spaceship because it's the only way he can be happy is having this knowledge explained to him finally. Now, in this case, you have this. The weird thing, which is that Josh o' Connors knowledge is. He's an incredible. He can speak the language of maths. And Emily Blunt's ability is that she's this incredible empath who can, can understand everybody in any language and what they need. And somehow these two things are the kind of key element to explaining what is going on with the plot. Somehow these two disparate elements will figure out how the mystery is going to unravel itself. So my problems are these. Firstly, I think that in the third act, the action of the third act makes no sense at all. I mean, I think it's perfectly fine. I'm not bothered by, and I don't want to give anything away about what happens in the third act, but I think it's like it's an action adventure romp. And you go, no, hang on, hang on. That does not make sense.

[Simon Mayo]

Were you surprised when Jesus I was

[Mark Kermode]

surprised when Jesus turned up and it was played by Jared Leto, which is a shock, wasn't it? Which is just, I mean, you know, obvious bit of casting, but well done. The fact that he was speaking fluent Aramaic and Emily Blunt's character understood him, I thought was a good callback joke, you know, well done for that. But if you thought that at the end of Close Encounters it required a willing suspension of disbelief to believe that the authorities would allow the Richard Dreyfus character to wander onto the spaceship, honestly, this requires a whole levitation, lifting system of disbelief to believe that this is how the end thing. But it doesn't matter. That's okay. I can kind of, you know, clock your logic at the door and let your emotions do the talking. And for a film which has got this kind of empathy thing going on, I can just abandon out do that. The bigger problem is this, that when we finally get to the denim on the explanations, it did feel to me an awful lot like a very, very old fashioned kind of series of revelations. You remember in Close Encounters, there's the thing when the airmen come back from if they disappeared in the Bermuda Triangle or something. There's like a really weird thing with all these airmen have suddenly turned up from nowhere and it's like, wow. Wow, that's amazing. The point is, we now live in an age in which in 2006, Anton Deck made a Roswell movie called Alien Autopsy. And we live in a world in which in 2002, M. Night Shyamalan made a crop circles movie signs. And I think that when we think of Spielberg and Spielberg imagining alien encounters, what we think is, you know, give me something amazing, give me something that I hadn't imagined. Give me something 2001. And you don't get that what you get is a late entry in Spielberg's filmography. I mean, he's a filmmaker in his late 70s. And honestly, the sensibility of Disclosure Day is it's a film that could be from the late 70s. It, it's, it's very old fashioned and its ideas are very old fashioned. Outside of that centralized, you know, that central thing about what happens if we disclose this information. He's the film shot by Janusz Kaminsky. He's shot, you know, worked with many times before.35mil. There is a lot of lens flare. Now it's interesting that the lens flare particularly happens in a particular circumstance, in a particular set that has, because of its nature in the plot, a nostalgic thing. But it is almost at times like JJ Abrams doing a parody of Steven Spielberg, which is, you know, Steven Spielberg likes lens flare. Let's do a ton of lens flare. And I, I also think that in an age in which Arrival talked about the way in which we'd have to redefine language to communicate with aliens, or under the Skin talked about the way in which you'd have to rethink the concept of humanity to talk about aliens, it's just not satisfying profoundly to have something which is so old fashioned in its revelations. And finally, and I throw this open to the audience when you see it, the music at the beginning of the end credits literally sounded to me like a quote from the X Files. And I thought, oh, okay, that's the thing. That's what it's doing. It's almost throwing back, and this is from the guy who kind of invented this genre of filmmaking. It's almost throwing back to a TV series from a previous century. So the key thing is I enjoyed it. I thought it was fine. I thought the performances were terrific and there were some nice ideas in it. But it's ultimately such an old fashioned movie, not in a, a wonderfully nostalgic way, but in a kind of. Okay, I think I need something better than that at the end of this because I think we've moved too far. And what I really need is the heartbreak of Richard Dreyfus character getting into the spaceship and turning his back on humanity because of what's happened as a result of this encounter rather than what we get. Here. I throw this to you now. What do you feel? Because I know you loved it.

[Simon Mayo]

I mean, I agree with most of what you're saying it was old fashioned, but I think it was old fashioned in a way that would. If the kids were still in the house, I Would say, right, let's all go and see this, because there is some magic that is happening here. I think what I would say is I enjoyed it because there was enough Spielbergian magic to make this film happen. You are absolutely correct. I was disappointed about Roswell and crop circles, which we know are fake. We've done with that. We have moved on from that.

[Mark Kermode]

Even Ant and Deck note, they're fake.

[Simon Mayo]

It's not a. It's not. This is not a genre defining film in the way Close Encounters was. And you're absolutely right to mention Arrival, which is a masterpiece and did make you think, wow, I have never seen this before. This is, this is wonderful. And every time I watch it, I kind of forgotten about the twists and have forgotten quite how. How brilliant it is. Also, the digital animals were not. Yeah, now quite good enough.

[Mark Kermode]

Can I, can.

[Simon Mayo]

I'm just embarrassed to, to say when you.

[Mark Kermode]

No, no. Can I just. Okay, so can I just raise this very quickly? Yeah. So the, the shonky digital animals, which I said, I can't believe you can spend this much money on a movie and get shonky digital. Like, how hard is it to do a fox? I mean, you know, Lars von Trier did a talking fox in Antichrist. It's not that hard. And somebody said to me, ah, it's on purpose because as the plot reveals, they're not what you think they are.

[Simon Mayo]

All right.

[Mark Kermode]

Yeah. And I went, yeah, no, they're shonky digital labels.

[Simon Mayo]

But I left, but I left the, I left the screening with a smile while. Because. Because I think you can. And there's a reason that I apologize for this in case it drives people mad. But there is a reason I mentioned Elon Musk in that interview, because he has said that empathy is a weakness. The fact that it is this film at this time.

[Mark Kermode]

Yes.

[Simon Mayo]

Means that the. I mean, imagine. So we're here, we live in, in the uk. That's great. Imagine if you live in the country that has this source, our corrupted, cruel White House running things. You can say, that's not how we were. That's not. They are not the values that we have. These, this here is. Here is a guy who's been doing this for 50 years and he has, he is still enchanted with the world. He still believes in compassion, that empathy is a superpower. And this. So this, so this film at this time works. And I would like to take the family to go and see it with all of, with all of the reservations that you have quite correctly analyzed. I left feeling that the world was a better place for this film.

[Mark Kermode]

And I would say that actually, that is, you and I have done this version of this show together for several decades, and I've always felt privileged to work with you on it. And I think that at its best, it's this. It's that I can go as a critic. I think all these things are true. And you can say what you just said, because you're absolutely right. Because in a world in which Elon Musk and the rest of it is happening, a film whose headline plot is empathy is a superpower is on the side of things that are good.

[Simon Mayo]

So in the same way that War of the Worlds, the Spielberg version, has to be seen in the context of 9 11, it didn't just appear out of nowhere. This film didn't just appear out of nowhere. And you will never get. Get these. These, you know, Spielberg or any of these actors to talk about this because that's not what they do. But when I mentioned Elon Musk, Coleman particularly, you know, smiled and nodded. I think that's fair enough to say. Yeah, you know, because. Because they know. Because this is their world where empathy is under attack and people, you know, that it's seen as a weakness by a lot of very noisy and wealthy people. So for a film to come out and say, you know what? Actually, it's the thing that makes us human. Human is, you know, is quite a gift, I think.

[Mark Kermode]

And. And may I just say, having just said that impassionedly about. And I do. I honestly do feel that about working with you, Simon, it is a privilege for exactly this reason. One of our top production team on the nerdier side of the thing have just put a message which says, chaos reigns. If, you know, you know.

[Simon Mayo]

So I just. And one final point, which I don't think is. And I think I've got the name of this person. Right.

[Mark Kermode]

Okay.

[Simon Mayo]

There is one person sort of overlooked, but it is difficult to talk about because this is literally in the last 10 minutes of the film.

[Mark Kermode]

Okay.

[Simon Mayo]

There is an actor who I think is called Courtney Grace, who plays the NBC News anchor.

[Mark Kermode]

Right.

[Simon Mayo]

Who is covering all the stuff that Mark's just explained. All of that is happening and being explained in the last 10 minutes. Yes, because that's the role of the denouement. And she is the anchor who is interrupting coverage of what appears to be literally like almost nuclear war imminent.

[Mark Kermode]

Okay, careful.

[Simon Mayo]

Bad stuff happening abroad. She has to break away from that to bring you this story. And she's. And she's the anchor thinking, what what are we watching? And then she has to react to the film that that comes up. And I thought she was fantastic. I thought she met. That is. You know, first of all, this is the story that news anchor would dream of getting. We move away from this huge story to bring you this.

[Mark Kermode]

What.

[Simon Mayo]

What is this we're watching? And I just, I thought, thought, I thought she got it absolutely right.

[Mark Kermode]

And, and I should say once again that you, you do know that because as we've spoken about before, you were on air live when 911 happened. And the instruction that you were given was just describe what you're seeing.

[Simon Mayo]

Yeah, well, and that had been told me, you know, when we started the whole thing. But to be able to react. I mean, obviously she's an actor and it's a script.

[Mark Kermode]

Oh, no, I know, I understand.

[Simon Mayo]

But it's easy to get that wrong and go all bombastic or whatever. But I thought she had the right balance of humanity and general. I can't believe quite what we're seeing.

[Mark Kermode]

Yes. And I would say, and I would say that if you think that, then that means that that is a job well done, because you actually know what that's like.

[Simon Mayo]

Yeah. Okay, that's, that's, well, that's very kind. I mean, the, but to do it whilst being envisioned is, is something else altogether. So I, I, I think we've done a job. Good job. Because I think I want people to go and see it because it's amazing and there's so much. And Emily Blunt is, can do anything.

[Mark Kermode]

She's, she walks on water.

[Simon Mayo]

She's like, you know, earlier, we're talking about actors who, who, who, if they're in a movie, you're going to go, okay, well, there's going to be something interesting in there. Yeah, she is definitely one. Like Florence Pugh is another one.

[Mark Kermode]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Simon Mayo]

She was, I was talking to Matt Haig, the author, who's wrote a book called the Midnight Library. Huge international hit. And it's going to be a movie, and Florence Pugh is going to be at the heart of it. You go, okay, well, that's going to be good then, isn't it? Because it's got Florence Pugh in it, and Emily Blunt is definitely one of those people who, you know, you could do Sicario and you can do this. So this is.

[Mark Kermode]

Yeah, give something.

[Simon Mayo]

Something to see. Well, it may be. It's movie of the week. I, you know, I dread to, I dread to think. I dread to think what you're going to say when we get to the end but anyway, obviously, once you've seen disclosures, I'm sure there'll be a lot of correspondence on that. Correspondence at kevin and mayo.com. do we have time? Should we do the laughter lift?

[Mark Kermode]

Yeah, go ahead.

[Simon Mayo]

Do you have a sense of gay abandon? At the moment I do.

[Mark Kermode]

I feel. I feel both of those things.

[Simon Mayo]

Okay, so here we go then. Let's step in and play the music. Now, I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to say this properly, because this is like a written joke probably, but. Hey, Mark, what fruit did Romeo and Juliet. Juliet eat?

[Mark Kermode]

I don't know. What fruit did Romeo and Juliet eat?

[Simon Mayo]

Cantaloupe. Cantaloupe. See, it does.

[Mark Kermode]

It doesn't really work.

[Simon Mayo]

It doesn't. Because actually, the fruit that they talk about is pomegranate. So that's the correct answer. It's just not funny. It's a cantaloupe. It's not.

[Mark Kermode]

Not gay.

[Simon Mayo]

Mark, did you know that Mortal Kombat was actually based on a Scandinavian church song?

[Mark Kermode]

I did, yeah. It was a.

[Simon Mayo]

Finish him.

[Mark Kermode]

Hey.

[Simon Mayo]

And with all this talk about Warwick Student Radio reminds me of my japes during those years. I once went to a. Once went to a fancy dress party with a girl on my back. Who are you supposed to be? Said the host. I'm a turtle, said I. Well, who's that on your back, then? Oh, I said, that's Michelle.

[Emily Blunt]

Good.

[Simon Mayo]

What's still to come? This is where Mark says my review of Boogie Nights.

[Mark Kermode]

Plus, I was gonna do that. I knew. I knew that's what it was.

[Simon Mayo]

Okay, what's to come? Mark?

[Mark Kermode]

It's a reissue of Boogie Nights.

[Simon Mayo]

Oh, excellent. On the way,

[Emily Blunt]

You have one new message

[Simon Mayo]

translating. Disney and Pixar's Hoppers is now available on Disney Plus. You could see. Say that again.

[Emily Blunt]

Critics are calling it Pixar's funniest movie

[Simon Mayo]

ever and a wildly entertaining ride.

[Mark Kermode]

Blizzard Potato. It's certified fresh and verified hot.

[Simon Mayo]

Now we party. This is incredible.

[Mark Kermode]

Wow.

[Simon Mayo]

I am clearing the rest of the day. Disney and Pixar's Hoppers, now available on Disney.

[Mark Kermode]

Rated pg.

[Simon Mayo]

This episode is brought to you by Redfin. You're listening to a podcast, which means you're probably multitasking, maybe even scrolling home listings on Redfin, saving homes without expecting to get them. But Redfin isn't just built for endless browsing. It's built to help you find and

[Emily Blunt]

own a home with agents who close

[Simon Mayo]

twice as many deals. When you find the one, you've got

[Mark Kermode]

a real shot at getting it get

[Simon Mayo]

[e-mail], own the dream. Okay, so we've got some Boogie Night stuff to come, but first of all, an email from a name withheld person.

[Mark Kermode]

Okay, that this is.

[Simon Mayo]

There's quite a long version of this, but this is the shortened version. But it raises some interesting points which I think you might be interested. Okay, it says I am Name withheld. A film graduate with a particular interest in censorship history. So this is very much your strong okay topic. I'm writing because I'm concerned about what feels like a quiet but significant shift at the BBFC in recent years, specifically a move away from transparency under Natasha Kaplinski's presidency. Publicly, the BBFC continues to promote its classifications as quote, trusted, particularly across streaming platforms. However, there's growing evidence of increased reliance on AI assisted tools which appear to prioritize isolated flagged moments over a full viewing of context and tone. This can lead to odd inconsistencies such as material previously rated 18 being downgraded without clear or detailed justification, and raises questions about how much of the process is now automated. At the same time, it's become much harder to understand how decisions are actually made. Content warnings can emit key thematic elements, especially when they're subtextual, while inquiries to the BBFC tend to yield brief generic responses that don't fully address the question. Resources that were once invaluable to researchers and enthusiasts, such as as quotes, recently rated listings, detailed case studies and access to archival material, have also been quietly reduced or removed. For those of us interested in film history and classification, this feels like a notable step backwards from an organization that once highlighted its processes openly to one where key aspects are now increasingly opaque. Given your long standing engagement with the BBFC and your work on its history, I wondered if this is something that you might consider exploring or raising publicly. Says name withheld person but film graduate with an interest in this sort of thing.

[Mark Kermode]

Okay, well I confess that I have not heard of this before. I have been a great admirer of the BBFC since the the kind of the the turn of the century rejig and I think that they have done terrific work. I know nothing about what you seem to be talking about is AI being used to. To flag specific moments which is a. Which were it a thing would be a return to a previous more box ticky age. And also the stuff that you're saying about access to online information and archive stuff. Now I am not aware of any of this happening. What I do know is that I still have some contacts with the bbfc. When Natasha Kaplinski took over, I thought she was a very good appointment. I did a launch event with them, so I will pass this on to them for comment and I'll also, I'll speak to a couple of people that I know who, who know something about the, the workings of the bbfc. So I. So genuinely, I don't know anything about this and I am not aware of it happening, but I will make some inquiries and see what I can find out and see if we can maybe get a, get a reply from the bbfc. Because you, you know, this is clearly something which is a matter of concern. Thank you for sending me the email, but I stress again, this is the first time I'm hearing this, so I'll, I'll look into it more.

[Simon Mayo]

I'm sure there'll be more on this story in future weeks and your [e-mail] so there is something that's back out which I suspect you're going to enjoy talking about.

[Mark Kermode]

Well, so Boogie Nights is, is being reissued. It is a 4K restoration. This is happening sort of more and more at the moment, sort of 4K restorations of films back into cinemas and doing very well, as you know. I was talking recently about the fact that we are very soon going to have a 4K restoration of Ken Russell's the Devils in cinemas in the full director's cut. And Also in take two, there's a 4k restoration of strictly Ballroom. So it. Honestly, I'm always delighted when older movies make reappearances in cinema, particularly when it's Boogie Nights. So Boogie Nights is kind of the film that broke Paul Thomasante. Not broke him as in broke him in half, but kind of broke him big because he'd made. Which sounds weird in the film that broke him because he'd made hard eight, which was 96, which was the year before. And then Boogie Nights came out and I remember really clearly being in Cannes the year before Boogie Nights came out and people were talking about it, there was a lot of buzz about this film. So if you haven't seen it, it is a sprawling, goodfellas inflected drama set in the San Fernando Valley, following the rise of a young hustler who makes his name in the adult film industry. First in the nostalgic celluloid driven days of the 1970s, which was the kind of the days of porno chic that was the days of, you know, when Deep Throat and all that stuff kind of, you know, became the subject of Time magazine articles and then in the 80s, as that gives way to the rise of video driven imperatives. And the world. This is a world in which, as one of the characters says, we just keep shooting. And performative sex gives way to drugs, violence, nastiness. So the film starts with our anti hero, who's played by Mark Wahlberg. And this was a breakthrough role for Mark Wahlberg, doing dishes before being spotted as a potential talent by adult filmmaker Jack Horner. Hero. Here is a clip.

[Colman Domingo]

Hey.

[Emily Blunt]

Hey.

[Colman Domingo]

You been working here long?

[Simon Mayo]

A month.

[Colman Domingo]

Maurice give you the job?

[Mark Kermode]

Yeah.

[Colman Domingo]

You from around here? I mean, Canoga Lucida? No. You know where Torres is? Yeah. How do you get it? Take the bus. So what do you want to be?

[Emily Blunt]

Excuse me?

[Colman Domingo]

Well, I mean, you take the bus from Torrance to come here to Reseda to do this job. Can't you get a job like this at Torrance?

[Mark Kermode]

Yeah, but I don't want to.

[Simon Mayo]

Okay. My name is Jack.

[Mark Kermode]

Eddie. Eddie Adams.

[Colman Domingo]

Eddie Adams from Torrance.

[Mark Kermode]

Yep.

[Colman Domingo]

Jack Warner, filmmaker.

[Emily Blunt]

Really?

[Colman Domingo]

Yeah. I make you adult films. Exactly. Want to come back to the table and, you know, have a drink?

[Mark Kermode]

He makes adult films, exotic pictures. So the character at that point that Wahlberg is playing is called Eddie, but not for long, because he is going to transform himself as Dirk Diggler. Now, the roots of Boogie Nights are in a. A short that Paul Thomas Anderson made in the 1980s called the Dirk Diggler Story. And you can find it on YouTube. YouTube. It's not very long. It's like, you know, half an hour, 40 minutes or something. And it's really worth seeing if you're a Boogie Nights enthusiast. I'm sure it'll be on the. I'm sure it's on the DVDs. That's probably how it's. How it's on YouTube. The story also draws on the real life stories of people like John Holmes and on the Wonderland murders, which themselves were the. The subject of a James Cox film with Val kilmer in from 2003 called Wonderland. Boogie Nights was a career defining film for Mark Wahlberg. The role you discussed this with Paul Thomas Anderson when you were talking about one battle after another was originally offered two. Can you remember?

[Simon Mayo]

Oh, no, you got me there.

[Mark Kermode]

Yeah, go on. You were talking to him about one battle after another and you said you finally got to work with Leonardo DiCaprio because he was originally going to be the role. And you said it positive because what happened was he turned it down in order to go and do a movie about a boat that sinks. Right. So instead it falls to Mark Wahlberg, and then in the end, Paul Thomas Anderson and Leonardo DiCaprio, make one battle after another, which goes on to win Best Picture. So as for Wahlberg, he gets, I think, his greatest role as Dirk Diggler, incidentally, a role for which he has subsequently apologized. He has literally apologized for making Boogie Nights, saying, I just always hope that God is a movie fan. And also, forgive me because I've made some poor choices in my past. Boogie Nights is up there at the top of that list.

[Simon Mayo]

Really?

[Mark Kermode]

Nope.

[Simon Mayo]

I didn't know that.

[Mark Kermode]

No. Top of that list. In the bad movie choices, Mark, is your roles in Transformers, the Last Knight or the Happening, or the Truth About Charlie or the Daddy's Home Movies, or most recently, Flight Risk, which you'll remember is the movie in which he's actually got a bald head, but he plays bald so badly that it looks like he's wearing a bald wig. I mean, how about, Mark, you apologize for that? Those films first, before you start apologizing for the best film you ever made and will ever make. The weird thing is, what did he say?

[Simon Mayo]

What was he worried about? Was it a moral thing?

[Mark Kermode]

It was a moral thing, yeah. It was the fact that he'd made a movie about. In which he played Dirk Diggler, this porn star who rises up through the industry in the 1970s and in the 80s. And he thought, well, that was. You know, it was a terrible career choice. It isn't a terrible career choice.

[Simon Mayo]

And I.

[Mark Kermode]

We'll get also to why it isn't in terms of the. The morality of the film in a little bit.

[Simon Mayo]

Bit.

[Mark Kermode]

But I interviewed Mark Wahlberg for Radio 1 When Boogie Nights came out, and he was. He was lovely. I mean, back then, he said he was using Boogie Nights as a way of apologizing for his role in Marky Mark and the Funky Bunch and those Is it Calvin Klein underwear that he was advertising. He said, yeah, no, finally, this is great, because, you know, I put a lot of stuff behind me. And I said, what sort of stuff? He said, well, like running around in your underpants. I mean, that's not something to be proud of. Proud of. So I think, firstly, Mark Wahlberg needs to get his priorities straight and sort out what he should be proud of and what he shouldn't be proud of. Frankly, Funky Bunch, you know, they're okay. My own feeling is that, like Orson Welles, Mark Wahlberg has kind of lived his career backwards and started out with his best work and then slowly reversing into this kind of ever more depressing catalog of flatulent Ring kissing nonsense. The thing is, Boogie Nights is brilliant because it is a brilliant role and he is far from the best thing in the movie. He's terrific in it, but he's far from the best thing because there are so many great things. I mean, the other cast members include, get this right, Philip Seymour Hoffman, John C. Reilly, William H. Macy, and Oscar nominated Julianne Moore. That core group, incidentally, then went on to be the core team with Paul Thomas Anderson in Magnolia, which follows very hot on the heels of Boogie Nights and which I know you're a huge fan of Magnolia.

[Simon Mayo]

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

[Mark Kermode]

I mean, it's, you know, as ensemble cast go, it's amazing. The other nominations that got along for with Julianne Moore was it got a nomination for best original screenplay and best supporting Actor for Burt Reynolds, who in another one of these sort of weird twists of fate, swithered about doing the role for ages, didn't want to do it, didn't think it was a good idea, and then ends up getting that all important Oscar nomination. Now, in terms of that thing about, you know, I want to apologize because it was a bad choice. It would be easy to think that a film about the porn industry would be, you know, somehow scuzzy and downbeat and, you know, and immoral and all those, all those things that Wahlberg appears to be worrying about. If you ever listen to the commentary track of Boogie Nights on dvd, there is a moment in it in which Heather Graham, who plays Roller Girl in the film, is terrific in it again, one of her best roles as well, says that despite the fact that the film is set in the porn industry, it has a very kind of sweet family drama subtext. And she says, and you know, the interesting thing is that that is highlighted in a really good review of the film that was written in Sight and Sound magazine, you know, the British Film Institute, Sight and Sound magazine. Well, guess who wrote that review.

[Simon Mayo]

I can't possibly

[Mark Kermode]

take a punt.

[Simon Mayo]

Was it James Boy King?

[Mark Kermode]

No,

[Simon Mayo]

he's the only one I can think of.

[Mark Kermode]

Go on, who do you think. Who do you think wrote that review?

[Simon Mayo]

Pete Bradshaw.

[Mark Kermode]

No, go on. Just stop doing the funny answers. No, obviously, no. Oh, the good lady professor, her indoors wrote it.

[Simon Mayo]

Oh, okay. Well, I wouldn't have thought that that was exactly you.

[Mark Kermode]

But the point is she's right. I mean, both Heather Graham and, well, the good lady professor, her indoors is always right. Of course, Heather Graham in this particular case is right because what she's doing is highlighting, which is absolutely central to the film is that at the heart of it. It does have this real sweetness. And there is a morality which is a human thing. It's about people together in circumstances that are, you know, that are changing in strange and sometimes terrible ways. There is a scene in the later of the part of the film in which they visit the home of this character played by Alfred Molina, which is one of the scariest things I've ever seen. Because as this scene is playing out, there is a character wandering around randomly throwing cherry bombs onto the wall, making these banging noises that are absolutely terrifying. I mean, it is an astonishingly accomplished film. People talk about the, you know, the Steadicam work at the beginning and the kind of very goodfellas thing about coming into the house, the pool, all that sort of stuff. Fine. Okay. Yes, stylistically we know that Paul Thomas Anderson is an amazing visual stylist. I mean, look at one battle after another. Look at the river of Hills sequence. He always has been. But Boogie Nights has got heart, it's got soul, it's got humor, it's. The period detail is astonishing. And it is the work of a master craftsman filmmaker spreading his wings. And from here, as I said, to Magnolia and from Magnolia to Punch Drunk Love. And just what a. What a joy that it's back in. It's back. I love. I love Boogie Nights. I think it's just a wonderful movie and I'm. And Marky Mark is absolutely brilliant in it. It is the best thing he ever did, he ever will do. And it remains one of my favorite Paul Thomas Anderson movies. And how thrilling that it's back in cinemas.

[Simon Mayo]

Correspondence at kevin and mayor.com before we go, we have a little what's on here from Una from View Digital Community Meeting Media in Belfast. On Thursday 18th June at 7pm we'll be at the indie bookstore the Bookshelf in Newry, County Down. Along with our friends at Newry Ie, we'll be hosting a screening of a short documentary spotlighting the voices of migrant women in Northern Ireland. Migrant Women Seen and Heard was co created with migrant women themselves. It has highlights the hidden cultural barriers that they face every day. It marks both Refugee Week and Indie

[Colman Domingo]

News Week in Northern Ireland.

[Simon Mayo]

Tickets are free and available on the viewdigital.org website.

[Mark Kermode]

Well, fantastic.

[Simon Mayo]

When Una sent us that, she couldn't possibly have known what be unfolding in Northern Ireland in the last few days. So if ever there was a time to go and support this particular particular film, I think it's. It's now is the time to do that. Una. Thank you very much indeed. As she says. Tickets are free and available on the viewdigital.org website. A very timely suggestion from Una. That's it for this week. This has been a Sony Music Entertainment production. This week's team, Jen, Eric, Josh and Heather producer was Dom redacted Simon Poole, who is briefly back in the country, but he'll be gone soon. In take two. We're directing you to the overflow car park for more chat about current film releases. More on the more on Tuna. More the Baby Yoda film, you know, whatever it's called. More Rich D. Grant, Swaziland or As. As. As Watini, I think you have to call it now chat Existential horror. And in questions schmestions will be asked with all the different versions of the Odyssey coming up. Are we all in fact watching the same film? And Mark will be definitely answering whether Alan Delon ever lived in Hume Crescents in Manchester with a girl, apart from the fact we might not get there because that might just fall off the end of the show. Come and join us on Patreon for all the exclusive good stuff. Mark, what is your film of the week?

[Mark Kermode]

Well, I think as we have discovered between us, Disclosure day.

[Simon Mayo]

We'll be back next week. Mark's review of Toy Story 5 will be included. Have you seen it yet?

[Mark Kermode]

No. Seeing it on Monday.

[Simon Mayo]

Okay. All right. Very, very exciting. I will bestow a year's Ultra membership on that first email. There we go. Matt Woodhouse, who was the guard who told us about the. The strutting peacock that wasn't a child calling for help. So Matt Woodhouse gets a year's Ultra membership. What a joy that is. He is Correspondent of the week. Thank you very much indeed for listening. There will be another take which has landed very close to this one.