Is SAVAGE HOUSE Richard E. Grant’s most unhinged role yet?

Summary

Podcast Summary: Kermode & Mayo’s Take

Episode: Is SAVAGE HOUSE Richard E. Grant’s most unhinged role yet?
Date: June 4, 2026
Hosts: Mark Kermode & Simon Mayo
Special Guest: Richard E. Grant

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Overview

This lively episode features film reviews, cultural asides, listener correspondence—and most notably, an extended discussion with Richard E. Grant about his new film, Savage House. The show is packed with the duo’s signature wit, playful detours about British fauna and family life, in-depth reviews of current releases, and a memorable exploration of Grant’s "most unhinged" performance yet.

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Main Segments & Highlights

1. Banter, Rats, and Wildlife (03:10–06:49)

• Simon’s House Infestation: The show opens with tales of rats and urban foxes plaguing Simon’s home, likening the experience to a medieval ordeal.
  • "This is feeling a little bit like the plague." – Simon Mayo [04:05]
  • “We might all get the pox as a result of whether this gentleman is going to be successful or not. And the answer is, of course, he's a rat catcher.” – Simon Mayo [03:45]
• Kermode’s Rat Encounter and New Forest Peacock: Mark tells a story about a rat in his own porch and the unsettling sound of a peacock in the New Forest.
  • “A peacock calling. Sounds like a child in distress. It goes, ‘help, help.’ It would echo across the... wild and windy moor.” – Mark Kermode [05:55]

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2. Film Reviews & Box Office Top 10

a. Masters of the Universe (2026) Review [14:39–23:37]

Mark reviews the new live-action adaptation, highlighting its tone, flaws, and surprising cast:

• Cast includes Nicholas Galitzine (He-Man), Idris Elba, Camila Mendes, Alison Brie, Kristen Wiig, and Jared Leto (Skeletor).
• Key Observations:
  • “The tone is essentially playful, colorful, lots of silly costumes, lots of silly characters…a camp pantomime.” – Mark Kermode [18:27]
  • The CGI is “particularly remarkable” for being so shonky despite a vast budget.
  • “At least 90 minutes too long… No film this flimsy needs to be 140 minutes long.” – Mark Kermode [21:40]
• On Jared Leto: Despite playing Skeletor, “it’s perfectly possible to watch Masters of the Universe without ever recognizing that it's Jared Leto.” [17:00]

b. Box Office Rundown [25:03–34:30]

A rapid-fire, often humorous breakdown of the week’s box office, with quotes from listeners and reflections on various titles. Highlights include:

• Passenger: Mark enjoys the nighttime car horror vibe.
• Power Ballad: Listeners discuss the pain of having a hit song story stolen—parallel to film’s themes.
• Obsession: “It is a story about coercion and a story about control and a story about domestic abuse that is told as a fantasy. I thought it was terrific.” – Mark Kermode [30:09]
• Backrooms: Pleased with the creepy efficacy and inventive use of Internet horror lore. (See: [31:49–36:11])

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3. Interview: Richard E. Grant on Savage House [37:03–51:36]

a. Setting the Scene

• Savage House is described as a black comedy/period drama about excess, decline, and aristocratic anxieties in 18th-century England.
• Plot: Chauncey Savage (Grant), a Welsh upstart married into English high society (Claire Foy), faces social and medical disaster amid outbreaks of pox, an impending aristocratic visit, and his own rapidly failing health.

b. Standout Quotes & Moments

• On the role: “It’s an 18th-century rake's progress man who has enormous appetites and pays the price for that... leads an utterly debauched life of enormous excess.” – Richard E. Grant [38:43]

• Physical Comedy: Grant describes playing scenes of gout, leech applications, “limbs… coming off,” and “gangrene sets in after a duel.”

• Parallels to Today: The film’s social turmoil and pestilence tie to modern pandemic anxieties and political division.

  • “It’s basically 18th century version of COVID. Everybody's in lockdown.” – Richard E. Grant [43:58]
  • “Doesn’t really change that much, does it?... Whether this was set in Wall Street in the 1980s or in the 1780s...” – Richard E. Grant [45:17]

• Rehearsal & Performance:

  • “There's no way you can do this part going at it half measure.” – Richard E. Grant [46:08]
  • On costuming: “In that period, men’s clothing was far more peacock-like than anything that the women could come up with.” [45:47]

• Praise for Claire Foy: “The chemistry or connection you have with somebody else in real life... if that translates into a screen partnership, then that’s the real bonus of it.” – Richard E. Grant [43:39]

• Mark’s Hypothesis on Casting Grant:

  • “You have a remarkable instrument in your voice, and it has fitted particularly well to roles, whether it’s Withnail or this...” – Mark Kermode [49:01]
  • Grant humbly admits, “Nobody has ever said that to me. Thank you.” [49:12]

• Personal Anecdote (Swaziland Connection):

  • A touching exchange about Simon’s university roommate, intertwined with the story of Grant’s family and Swaziland’s history.

c. Future Projects:

• Richard E. Grant confirms he’s returning to the stage in the West End for “Hay Fever” with Christine Baranski [51:04].

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4. Savage House Review (Expanded) [52:09–59:31]

Mark’s Appraisal:

• Describes it as “Barry Lyndon with leeches”—a film that is both grandly period in style and grotesquely, hilariously full of rot.
• The marital relationship at the heart (Grant & Foy) is weirdly warm despite chaos.
• "There are yucks, as in comedy yucks, and there are yucks as in that's gangrene and poo.” – Mark Kermode [After 52:09]
• Praises both Grant’s flamboyant turn and Foy’s grounding presence: "If Claire Foy wasn't as good as she is, the thing wouldn't work."
• Draws connections to other period and satire films: The Favourite, Saltburn, The Draftsman’s Contract, Waiting for Godot.

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5. Scary Movie 6 Review [64:37–72:59]

Mark’s Take:

• Describes the franchise’s shift from affectionate parody towards stale, out-of-date gags.
• “The best parodies are generated by people that love the source material... the main problem with the Scary Movie movies [is] they began life as a parody of Scream, which is itself a parody of horror movies.”
• Finds the new film’s best gags to be Wayans’ racial and stereotype humor, but feels the genre jokes don’t land and overall tone is tired.
• “I didn’t laugh. I can see that some people will... I think it’s arguably the best in the series, and it's rubbish.”

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Notable Quotes

• “I think it is the best Jared Leto movie since he got Huey Lewist and the news in American Psycho.” – Mark Kermode [21:59]
• “A fetid film, isn’t it?” – Mark Kermode on Savage House [After 52:09]
• “There's no way that you can do this part... going at it half measure.” – Richard E. Grant [46:08]
• “You can't judge a life as happy until it's over. Oh, thanks.” – Simon Mayo, quoting listener Elton’s Greek fatalism email [11:33]

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Listener Interaction & Memorable Moments

• Banter About Muppet Casting: Multiple emails suggest recasting major films with Muppets, a running in-joke.
• Peacock Impression: Mark does an uncanny peacock call, then compares it to the character’s flamboyance. [13:27–14:16]
• Cultural Mailbag: Multiple intelligent and whimsical listener letters on ancient myths, lost rings, and more.

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Rats, Foxes & Wildlife Banter: 03:10–06:49
• Masters of the Universe Review: 14:39–23:37
• Box Office Top 10: 25:03–34:30
• Backrooms Review and Creepypasta Origin: 31:49–36:11
• Richard E. Grant Interview: 37:03–51:36
• Savage House Review: 52:09–59:31
• Scary Movie 6 Review: 64:37–72:59

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Film of the Week:

Savage House (per Mark Kermode, [75:53])

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Tone & Atmosphere

Witty, intellectual, sometimes irreverent—but always rooted in a deep love of film and the absurdities of life. The interview and review segments are insightful yet light on ego, and the playful dynamic between Mark and Simon brings a warmth and cleverness that makes the analysis memorable, even for listeners with no prior knowledge of the films discussed.

Transcript

[Simon Mayo]

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[Mark Kermode]

Which one was that?

[Simon Mayo]

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[Mark Kermode]

Ah, yes, it's dead simple. Install the Saily app on your device and choose a data plan. There are multiple plans in over 200 destinations, available at some of the best rates online. Then follow the instructions on the app to install the ESIM and it will be activated instantly on arrival.

[Simon Mayo]

So I don't have to buy a new SIM card when I get there?

[Mark Kermode]

Nope. There's no queuing at a dodgy airport kiosk. A Saily ESIM only needs to be installed once, and then you use the same one for each country you visit.

[Simon Mayo]

Great. Does it let me skip all the other queues too?

[Mark Kermode]

Well, funnily enough, with Sali Ultra you can enjoy VIP travel perks like airport lounge access, fast track services, priority support, advanced online security, and much more.

[Simon Mayo]

You'll be telling me we've got a voucher code next.

[Mark Kermode]

Oh yes, and don't forget to apply the code take to at checkout to get a 15% discount.

[Simon Mayo]

Fabio Sementilli. Big heart, big voice, big laugh. A rock star hairstylist who drove a Porsche.

[Mark Kermode]

He was like a wizard behind the chair.

[Simon Mayo]

But killers came for Fabio in his own backyard. You can't rationalize it, you can't figure it out.

[Mark Kermode]

There was rampant speculation about everything, but

[Simon Mayo]

every wild theory, every was wrong. Because the truth was even more unbelievable.

[Mark Kermode]

What is anyone hearing what I'm hearing?

[Simon Mayo]

And even more heartbreaking, the uncertainty of

[Mark Kermode]

not knowing is a form of agony.

[Simon Mayo]

From Sony Music Entertainment and novel. This is Cut Color Kill. I'm Jonathan Hirsch. Cut Color Kill is available now on the binge. Search for it wherever you get your podcast to start listening today. Subscribers to the binge can listen to all episodes all at once ad free. Before we begin, a quick reminder that you can become a Vanguardista and get an extra episode every Thursday, including bonus

[Mark Kermode]

reviews, extra viewing suggestions, viewing recommendations at home and in cinemas, plus your film

[Simon Mayo]

and non film questions answered as best we can in questions.

[Mark Kermode]

You can get all that extra stuff via Apple Podcasts or head to extratakes.com for non fruit related devices.

[Simon Mayo]

There's never been a better time to become a Vanguardista. Free offer now available wherever you get your podcasts. And if you're already a Vanguard Easter, we salute you. Well for five points. Mark. Yes, welcome to the show. By the way, I'm welcoming you to your own show. But yes, you know, I noticed, contributor and so on. You get five points if you can guess which medieval job is currently being undertaken in my house.

[Mark Kermode]

Medieval job?

[Simon Mayo]

Yeah, I mean, I'm using the term loosely.

[Mark Kermode]

Have you put Child three in the stocks and have you paid someone to throw apples at him?

[Simon Mayo]

No.

[Mark Kermode]

No. Okay, Is it the installation of sewage?

[Simon Mayo]

No, it's not that. Nor is it the installation of our missing Rembrandt, but.

[Mark Kermode]

Okay, is it to do with the pox?

[Simon Mayo]

It could. Well, you're getting closer.

[Mark Kermode]

Okay, someone is. Someone. Someone is having a course of leeches applied because of an outbreak of the pox.

[Simon Mayo]

Well, we might all get the pox as a result of whether this gentleman is going to be successful or not. And the answer is, of course, he's a rat catcher.

[Mark Kermode]

Oh, have you got a rat?

[Richard E. Grant]

We.

[Simon Mayo]

Well, I suspect more than one and I suspect quite a few dead ones because you'll be very glad that you're not staying in our house at the top of the house where the Australian Californians are, because the house stinks of what I suspect is either decaying rat or rat urine or decomposing rat or something. Few flies in the house and, you know, this is feeling a little bit like the plague.

[Mark Kermode]

Yes, we had a.

[Simon Mayo]

We had a rat come round.

[Mark Kermode]

No, we. We had a rat that got its way into the, the little porch above our front door and we were, we were away and. Child two, the house on their own and they heard. Yes, scratching noises. And if, if you've, if, you know, the way that the Exorcist begins is that the child hears and the next thing it's levitation and spinning heads and vomit. Yeah. And then we had, you know, we had to have the whole porch taken apart in order to, to, to find said rat, which was not dead. Was very much not dead.

[Simon Mayo]

Oh, really? Well, I suspect this one is. We've got. And so, so this morning, when I was just going through the script and doing some prep for Richard E. Grant, who's our guest on the show today, we had smell of rats and there were foxes in the garden. I was thinking, this is just London. You've changed. Just horrendous.

[Mark Kermode]

Have you got urban foxes in your garden?

[Simon Mayo]

We had two this morning, yeah.

[Mark Kermode]

Do they howl?

[Simon Mayo]

The worst sound in the world is when they're kind of scared or challenged or something. They sound like a baby is being attacked and they wail and howl at three in the morning and they. There is so much vermin knocking around. These parts, what we need is a cleansing operation. Or the hunt, actually. If there was an Islington hunt, maybe that would sort it all out.

[Mark Kermode]

When we were in the New Forest, there was a. There was a peacock that would go and nest in a tree. Not nest. We're going to sit in a tree and a peacock calling. Sounds like a child in distress. It goes, help. Help. And it would echo across the. It says help. Does it? It does. Honestly, what it sounds like. I'm sure that the top production team could find the sound of a peacock going, help. And it would whistle across the wild and windy moor, like the voice of Kathy come home, wanting to be let in at the window. It was most distressing.

[Simon Mayo]

It was borderline Monty Python. Bring out your dead.

[Mark Kermode]

All of that.

[Simon Mayo]

I'm not dead. Help. Anyway, on the show, assuming I don't pass out from the rat fumes. There is a rat in our kitchen. What am I gonna do? 40 were absolutely right. What are you reviewing later?

[Mark Kermode]

Well, I'm gonna feast on rat. Obviously, later on we're going to be reviewing the new live action Masters of the Universe. Didn't know we needed it, but there it is. There's a new Scary Movie movie.

[Simon Mayo]

Nice.

[Mark Kermode]

It's Scary Movie, AKA Scary Movie six. And also Savage House, which brings us to our particularly special guest.

[Simon Mayo]

Yeah. Richard E Grant. And there's his book on my bookshelf with. I mean, he's done a number of books, but anyway, that was the first one you.

[Mark Kermode]

And you talked to him for that one I did. With nails. Yes, Lots of stories.

[Simon Mayo]

Always with Richard E Grant. And he's always a very fine guest, so we'll talk to him. And in take two, in take two,

[Mark Kermode]

we have a film which, brilliantly, the poster gives you a phonetic description of the title. So it is called Erupsia. And we'll be doing that. And also it literally says on the poster in phonetics, it explains it. And then Bridesmaids is back in Cinemas for its 15th anniversary reissue, once again reminding us just how old we all are.

[Simon Mayo]

You can get Take two with no more of our brilliant ads by heading to our Patreon page. We have getting, getting people saying, I'd like to follow, I'd like to be, you know, patron, I'd like to be Vanguardista, but I still like the ads that you do. Is it possible to have the ads that you do, but not have the ads that. Made by other people? To which the answer is no, I don't believe that facility actually exists. But thank you very much for your Commitment. So last week on the program you had a lost ring discovered ring story.

[Mark Kermode]

Here it is, still here.

[Simon Mayo]

So which is provoked an avalanche of information. Andy Grinnell, Dear Boromir and Frodo, after hearing Mark sad obviously then happy lost ring story. Let me tell you about our story. Eleven years ago, my son's first birthday, my wife lost her engagement ring in the gravel park of Chester Zoo when loading the pram. We didn't notice it till later in the day when I managed to find a lovely group of seven local detectorists, metal detectorists who volunteered their time scouring the area for four and a half. No luck. And then the final twist was that the car park was entirely tarmac'd the next day. Sad times ensued. You would have to say, that's that, would you? Not until the dinosaurs return. So my wife ran a story in the local press just in case it had fallen anywhere else, but nothing. Fast forward 10, 10 years. That's 10 years. 10 years and the Duke of Westminster decides to get married. And a local woman in Chester wondered what type of engagement ring the bride had. So she searched it online and found our historic story. I'm not quite sure why the Duke of Westminster and Chester. Anyway, this is how, after all these years, my wife got a phone call to say, I think I have your engagement ring. She had found it earlier that fateful day at the zoo and quote, knew it was so beautiful it had to have a story behind it, keeping it safe at home, believing one day the owner was destined to find it. Which we did. Tarmac be damned. Destiny and kindness can change the world. Also, to make this missive film related, shouldn't tuner be called Baby Grand Driver?

[Mark Kermode]

Very good.

[Simon Mayo]

Kind of works.

[Mark Kermode]

That's very good.

[Richard E. Grant]

That's very good.

[Simon Mayo]

So someone had found the ring and was keeping it until they found this story.

[Mark Kermode]

Also, while we're here, isn't that a little bit like the Father Ted thing about the money was just resting in my account?

[Simon Mayo]

Yes, that is also true. Elton has been in touch. Dear Polycrates and Amasis. This is Elton from Classics Chancel reporting for duty last week as Mark told the charming story of finding his grandmother's signet ring, grandfather's signet ring, something triggered my classicist antenna, whatever that looks like, when he mentioned the folk tale of a woman throwing her engagement ring into the sea, only to find it later inside a fish. It brought to mind a famous episode from Herodotus. Polycrates, ruler of Samos. As you know, mark in the 530s BC formed an alliance with the Egyptian Pharaoh Amasis II. Concerned by polycrates extraordinary good fortune. Fortune. Amasis urged him to cast away his most treasured possession to avoid divine envy. Polycrates obliged by throwing his signet ring into the sea. Days later, a fisherman presented him with a large fish. And inside it was the ring. On hearing this, Amasis ended their alliance, convinced that such luck foretold a disastrous end. As indeed it did. To be clear, I'm not suggesting any morals for Mark here. This is strictly ancient Greek fatalism at work. You can always rely on the Greeks for a darker worldview. Not, it'll be all right. But rather, you can't judge a life as happy until it's over. Oh, thanks.

[Mark Kermode]

Okay.

[Simon Mayo]

I, for one, am looking forward to Nolan's Odyssey. Annoying those who think 300 is a documentary. Down with the Nazis stealing ancient Greek ideas without understanding them. From Elton. From Classicists. Chancel.

[Mark Kermode]

Fantastic. Fantastic.

[Simon Mayo]

Yes. And you know already that we're going to get lots of people writing in after Odyssey saying, can I just say that the swimming technique that they used again, which is inappropriate. And finally, because we're not done with this yet, Neil says. Professors Enoch and Mungo. Mark half recalls a story about a ring returning to the owner. Vira Fish. I think he might be recalling the story of Saint Mungo, the son of Saint Enoch and patron saint of Glasgow. This relates to the fish part of the Glasgow crest and which has a fish and a tree and a bird and a crown and what looks like the pope at the top or some bishop.

[Mark Kermode]

I have a picture of it in front of me.

[Simon Mayo]

Okay. This relates to the fish part of the Glasgow crest and the mantra that every Glaswegian kid is taught. The Bird that Never Flew. Mungo restored life to a pet robin that was accidentally killed by classmates. The tree that never Grew. He rekindled a dead monastery fire using frozen hazel branches instead of wood. The fish that never swam. He found Queen Langareth's lost wedding ring in the belly of a court salmon, proving her innocence to the king. And the bell that never rang. He brought a miraculous bell back from a pilgrimage to Rome. Down with Bowser. And up, up, down. Left, right, left, right, ba. For the rest of us, I'm not sure what the ba bit is there.

[Mark Kermode]

Yeah, no, I was. It was. It sounded like Bernie the bolt before that. Up, down, left a bit. Right a bit. Fire.

[Simon Mayo]

Anyway, we do have a peacock sound.

[Mark Kermode]

Oh, do we? Oh, fantastic.

[Simon Mayo]

Before we hear it, Mark, you do your peacock sound.

[Mark Kermode]

Okay. This is what a peacock sounds like when it's calling the help.

[Simon Mayo]

Okay. And this is a real peacock. Excuse me. Excuse you. That's uncannily close to. So you are now a strutting peacock in our eyes.

[Mark Kermode]

Well, I always have been in many

[Simon Mayo]

ways, but many impressions, actually. Closer to the. You're closer to wildlife than you are humans.

[Mark Kermode]

But it does sound like it's saying help when you said. Does it actually say help? That is the word that you hear. Just play that again, Dom. Play it once more.

[Simon Mayo]

Help.

[Mark Kermode]

It's clearly shouting help.

[Simon Mayo]

It is. And a particularly reedy, weedy voice for such a flamboyant, magnificent bird. Anyway, there'll be more strutting peacocks when we get to Richard E. Grant later in the show. But before we do that, there is a. I mean, I'm not even slightly interested in this film. Unless, of course, you entice me with. With your words. Tell us more.

[Mark Kermode]

Masters of the Universe. No, thanks. Master of the Universe. Thank you. No, thanks. Media franchise from Mattel first came to the script. I think the first time. I should point out at the beginning that what I know, or indeed care about Masters of the Universe is fairly small. So if I get any of these details wrong, forgive me, I'm a 63 year old man. All right. I think the first live action adaptation was the 80s version which had Frank is he Langella or Langella Langella as Skeletor and Dolph Lundgren as He Man. So now we have a reboot which incidentally features a cameo callback in which the torch is passed to the next generation. This time we have Nicholas Galitzine as the central he man starring alongside. And get this for the cast, Idris Elba, Camila Mendes, Alison Bri, James Purefoy, Kristen Wiig, and as Skeletor, Jared Leto. Or as Skeletor, Jared Leto if we're going to do the pronunciation game. The funny thing about this was I got a message from Simon Brew, he of Film Stories. Yeah. Saying that he thought that Masters of the Universe was the first Jared Leto proof movie. Because it is perfectly possible to watch Masters of the Universe without ever recognizing that it's Jared Leto because he doesn't have his face and. And his voice doesn't sound like him. So anyway, that's a good thing. Internet. So the story starts in Eternia, where sensitive Prince Adam is transported to Earth after an attack by the forces of darkness. And he's transported through a wormhole holding onto the Sword of Power, which he loses in the process. Cut forward 15 years. Dorky cheesecake Adam, played by Nicholas Galitzine, is working in human resources in an office whilst still attempting to find his lost sword and at the same time simultaneously workshopping, you know, team building exercises of what he thinks might be the sword. Then turns up in a Forbidden Planet style store. If you've ever been to one of the Forbidden Planet things, you know, comics, figures, characters, all that kind of stuff. And so now, once he's found this sword, he is reconnected with the old world of Eternia and must now join forces with the heroes that he left behind to fight Skeletor Jared Leto, or Skeletor Jared Leto, and to become the he man that his father always wanted him to be. A muscle man in a leather skirt. Here is a clip. Can you come help me with this? Whoa.

[Richard E. Grant]

It is quite heavy.

[Mark Kermode]

So if you could just. Oh, my God, yeah.

[Richard E. Grant]

So how does it feel to be

[Simon Mayo]

the mighty warrior, All things considered?

[Richard E. Grant]

I feel pretty great.

[Simon Mayo]

Not quite sure what happened to my shirt, though. Where are my pants? Do those come back or. I have to buy a new pair every time. You're 62, by the way, not 63.

[Mark Kermode]

Well, I'm about to be 63, but anyway, so look, that's basically the tone of it, you know, so he suddenly turned into he man with the thing and then, oh, where are my trousers? Or pants, as they say. So this film has been a long time coming. There was a sequel was planned to the 1980s film. It was dropped. It was. Then the idea was picked up again sometime in 2009. There were multiple, multiple iterations of what they were going to do. I think various people were going to star in it. The Knee brothers were announcers or the Neighbors. The Knee brothers were announcers, directors and co writers. Then the rights went to like various, I think Netflix and then Amazon and then Travis Knight came on board and then Nicholas Galaxy ended up getting. Anyway, so it's been going on for ages. It's one of those things that just kept turning up in the trade. So now the final film as we have it now, credited as directed by Travis Knight, written by Chris Butler, Aaron Nee, Adam Nee and Dave Callahan from a story by the Knees, Alex Litvak and Michael Finch. So Uncle Tom Cobley and all. The tone is essentially playful, colorful, lots of silly costumes, lots of silly characters brought to life through a mixture of pantomime, dress up and shonky cg. And I should say that the shonkiness of the CG is particularly remarkable considering the massive amount of money that this cost. I mean, it's somewhere between 170 and $200 million and you go, okay. But it is still pretty ropey. The thing is, the whole tone of the film is so unserious. It's so, it's, it's like a kind of camp pantomime that in a way the shonky CG sort of like. Well, of course the shonky CG is rubbish because it's. The whole thing is it's a camp pantomime and nobody really cares whether that weird tiger lion funny creature looks like it's in there in the real world or whether it's just completely CG generated. The primary joke of it all is that the central character is a dork who specializes in group therapy and you know, touchy feely, all that sort of stuff, but then discovers that he needs to specialize in being a big butch he man wearing the leather skirt and smashing things with his, with his sword of power. So he talks like he walks out of a Bill and Ted movie, but he romps around like, you know, Arnold or like Dolph Lundgren. And the gag is the disconnect between the sword and sorcery environment and the dialogue which sounds like it's out of a different film. And you know, some of the set pieces are smashy fun. Some of them are bargain basement sub Star wars dogfights. Many of them remind you how much better films were when people had to build sets and models rather than do things with cg. I mean, it is essentially a load of colorful nonsense. It's closer in tone to kind of Super Mario than it is to a superhero movie. And it's made with little enough commitment to any form of seriousness that it makes those most recent Wonder Woman movies look like now Voyager. On the plus side, I do think that Nicholas Galitzine has got dorky charm. And as I said before, and as Simon Brew pointed out, Jared Leto is unrecognizable. And it is perfectly possible to watch the movie and not realize that you're watching a Jared Leto movie, which is why I think Simon used that phrase. On the downside, it's at least 90 minutes too long. I mean, there's no, no film this flimsy needs to be 140 minutes long. It's just silly. And it's so jam packed with colorful explosions that nothing ever actually packs a punch. That said, I did laugh a few times when we were waiting in the foyer beforehand. They were doing. Because the soundtrack is. It's Daniel Pemberton. It's got contributions from Brian May. And then there's the. There's the Darkness involvement. So, you know, everything is just. It's just. It's just like, let's just throw everything at it. Let's just throw absolutely everything at it and every sort of two or three minutes make a joke about, isn't this ridiculous? I can't find my trousers. That's basically it. It's a lot of money to spend to make that joke. But I think it is the best Jared Leto movie since he got Huey Lewist and the news in American Psycho.

[Simon Mayo]

There's a guy called Ed Hyde. I think this was on Blue Sky.

[Mark Kermode]

Okay, who.

[Simon Mayo]

Who said, I can't wait to hear what Kermit May make of this. And he's. He's photoshopped or he's copied this from X.

[Mark Kermode]

Okay.

[Simon Mayo]

Where obviously you and I don't go anymore, but Max from Quebec is on X. And he says, it is with intense sorrow and deep regret that I must report to you that Jared Leto gives his best performance of his career in this movie. Is Max from Quebec correct? Is that right?

[Mark Kermode]

Yeah, I think. I think. I think we're on the same page. As I said. I mean, it really is one of those things in which you could. Because even the voice doesn't sound sort of Jared. I know that we have to say Leto, because I know this has been pointed out, but I'm just not going to start doing that. I literally listening to the voice at one point and thinking, who on earth does that sound like? And I realized that he sounds like Jermaine Clement. So it's almost like you're watching an animated skull with the voice of Jermaine Clement, but it turns out to be Jared Leto. Leto.

[Simon Mayo]

[e-mail] if you want to join in. Still to come after the break, Scary Movie 6, Savage House with our guest Richard E. Grant. Back in in just a moment. Howdy, pardner.

[Mark Kermode]

Hello, Simon Mayo.

[Simon Mayo]

I was just thinking the other day about the good old days.

[Mark Kermode]

What? The good old days in the Wild West. What's that? What's with the howdy partner thing?

[Simon Mayo]

Well, I was just thinking that when we started out in the radio, yeah, we were lucky because we had each other to bounce off. But most people don't have that support from a partner when they're starting out in business and they can get overwhelmed easily.

[Mark Kermode]

Yeah, very true. But they could try Shopify. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world, from household names like Mattel and Heinz to brands just getting started.

[Simon Mayo]

Shopify can help you get more efficient, whether you're uploading new products or trying to improve existing ones.

[Mark Kermode]

And if people haven't heard about your brand, Shopify helps you find your customers with easy to run email and social media campaigns.

[Simon Mayo]

Start your business today with the industry's best business partner, Shopify, and start hearing.

[Mark Kermode]

Sign up for your one pound per month trial today at shopify.co.uk take that's shopify.co.uk take.

[Simon Mayo]

Okay, well, if there are any other wildlife sounds that you want Mark to do impressions of. By the way, having heard his uncle Canny ability to be a peacock, then Mark because he doesn't do Twitter, but he could do tweet of the day, which I think Radio 4 did for a while. Mark could you be a starling? Or Mark could you be a blackbird? All this would be quite fun. Just let us know. Correspondence codemodec. Com box office top 10 beginning confusingly at 10 passenger, which I liked.

[Mark Kermode]

I thought it was a well told sort of folk horror story. And I've got this, I've got a thing about cars at night and woodsy setting, so I enjoyed it.

[Simon Mayo]

Number nine here, number 16 in the States is Power Ballad. I got an email here from Stephen Great Simon Mark, longtime listener here, first time caller, Irishman in Lisbon here.

[Mark Kermode]

Right.

[Simon Mayo]

I've worked years in the music industry. I was listening to your review of Power Ballad and had already seen the trailer. There's something about it that I find troublingly sad.

[Mark Kermode]

Okay, I will keep this brief.

[Simon Mayo]

The film very clearly appears to tell the true story of how an unknown struggling Irish singer songwriter, you don't need to mention his name, met a struggling major pop star. Don't mention his name either. One evening, drinks were had, stories were shared and according to the Irish songwriter's account, he effectively handed over what would become that pop star's biggest ever hit, which I'm not going to mention here. Even mega pop star has laterally acknowledged some truth to this story. Now there are ins and outs to that story and we don't need to get into all of them here, but the result was that the pop star became a superstar from the song, while the songwriter never received a credit on the song but did get a small payment. I believe whether people believe that version of events or not, it is hard to deny that it would have a profound effect on someone's life and psyche. Seeing a song you are had such a big hand in had such a big hand in become such a phenomenon. What strikes me now is that not only does the songwriter, who was very young at the time, feel he has lost recognition of the song itself, but it seems that even his story itself has been taken from him and repurposed. It's like he's been robbed twice. When Mark reviewed Michael, he raised the question of how you can make a film without acknowledging the elephant in the room. For me, a similar issue exists here. Regardless of where you stand on the original dispute, surely some acknowledged acknowledgement by the filmmakers of the songwriters story should exist. Love the show. Stephen and Lisbon.

[Mark Kermode]

Well, I don't know if the filmmakers have ever been asked about that particular story. And I, and I also don't know the Internet. I mean, I've, I've. I've heard a version of the story that you're talking about. I actually think that in the case of the of power ballad, it is, it's. It's a far more general story than that. I mean, I. Clearly there are parallels, but I mean it's like there are parallels with many stories.

[Simon Mayo]

Number eight here, 11 in America is the Super Mario Galaxy movie. Number seven here, 13 in the States is Tuna. Someone called. Looks as though they're called Dumb Cop Crow. Bunch of numbers via our YouTube channel. I quite enjoyed it. Not particularly as tightly constructed as the typical crime drama, but the characters here are flawed. Very compelling to watch. Needed more Dustin Hoffman. If Yuri was more menacing bad guy, there could have been bigger stakes. But even he had some scruples not to destroy his own operation like crime bosses in other movies. Anyway, I enjoyed it more than Dumb Cop Crow.

[Mark Kermode]

Yeah, I think you and I both enjoyed it. I thought the performances were very strong. It was. It was an interesting interview because I thought that Leo Woodle found it quite hard to talk about the film, which is interesting because then having them watch the film. His performance is completely convincing. I mean, he really does convince as that character.

[Simon Mayo]

He does. I think it's a good film. Number six, is the Sheep Detective still there?

[Mark Kermode]

Yeah. Charming, lovely, weird. Shouldn't work. Does work. Can't explain why.

[Simon Mayo]

Strange Old World, Devil wears Prada 2 at number five.

[Mark Kermode]

Yeah. Doesn't work. Isn't weird. Isn't strange. Looks like it was put together on a draft board by a whole bunch of people going, yeah, well there's that character they like and there's that character they like and there's that character. Now give us a narrative that joins them all together. It's not without a certain amount of charm because when you have that much talent on screen, it's impossible for it not to work, but it isn't any good.

[Simon Mayo]

Number four here, two over there. Obsession.

[Mark Kermode]

So there is a long discussion going on at the moment about, you know, are we living in a. In a golden age of horror? And. And certainly there are a lot of very, very interesting horror movies around at the moment. And we'll get to the biggest one of them at number one. The thing I like about Obsession is that it is a story which has a supernatural sort of framework to it, but actually it is about something which is very down to earth. It is a story about coercion and a story about control and a story about domestic abuse that is told as a fantasy. I wish. Be careful what you wish for. Monkey's Paw style horror tale. And I thought it was terrific.

[Simon Mayo]

Michael is still hanging around at number three here. Number four over there, which I thought was not terrific. Yeah. Number two here, three over there is Star wars, the Mandalorian and Grogu. Tim, on an email. The biggest indication that the film was a big episode is that it didn't explain the Mandalorian's stakes. There's no explanation of what he's giving up to Father Grogu, but it is kind of about what he's like in terms of how he makes different choices and takes different risks. I think this was dictated into a voicemail. I saw it early in the West End View and I have to say that of the six of us in the room, one bloke behind me snored audibly through the midsection. As a Star wars film, it had all the themes of the of the saga, but they were briefly explored in action adventure. The middle bit where the healing and the bonding happened was quite different from anything I've seen in Star Wars. So it was a proper Star wars film to me, but visually a lot of fun and plenty of references for the fans. It's not Empire Strikes Back, but it's arguably more accomplished than Solo. Up with the New Republic and Down with the Galactic Empire, says Tim.

[Mark Kermode]

I mean, I would draw listeners attention to the review of Child one, who is a big fan of the series and said quite rightly, I think that there are things in it that are charming if you like the series, most specifically the puppet work, but it does look like half hour episodes bolted together. When you read that email out, you said the cost thing involved to Father Grogu and I thought, Father Grogu is a priest. Oh, no, sorry, Father a verb as opposed to father a noun.

[Simon Mayo]

Yeah, correct. Yes, absolutely right. And number one. So here's the thing Number one here and number one there is backrooms.

[Mark Kermode]

Yes. So this is this huge breakout hit from a feature first timer who, as we said last week, A21's youngest feature director. Either 20 or 21, depending.

[Simon Mayo]

You mean A24.

[Mark Kermode]

What did I say A21. Did I say 21? Yes. A34, which is the road from Cornwall into London. A21 is the one that goes around the way. A24, wow. I can't believe that I said that just because he. Because he is 20 or 21. That's what my. My brain was doing. And I thought it was. I thought it was really well done. And I hadn't seen the viral web series beforehand, but I watched the film and I saw an interview with him and then I went back and saw some of the viral web series and I can. I can see how the two things connect together. But the thing that impressed me the most is if you don't know anything about it because of the way the narrative is constructed, you're led into it by characters who don't know anything about it. And then I also mentioned last week that there's been a lot of. Well, Kane Parsons can't possibly have directed it because that's just not possible because he's 20, 21. And this is a bit like, you know, to quote that line from Clockwork Orange, it was old age having a go at youth. I saw him interviewed and he sounded like he knew exactly what he was doing. And Backrooms has really become a big hit.

[Simon Mayo]

Someone who appears to be called Gilbert. Toxic Squall. So, Gilber, a lot of people are complaining about the script this. So this is on Backrooms. But that messy writing actually leads to an interesting point. The film ends up connecting with real life in a way that feels even scarier than the movie itself. The backrooms were born on the Internet, which was supposed to be this big utopia where everyone could connect. Yet the ultimate nightmare that came out of it is not nuclear war, aliens, or some giant apocalypse. It is complete isolation in empty corridors that feel like bureaucracy turned into architecture. That says a lot about modern fear. Maybe the scariest thing is not the body dying, but the mind becoming irrelevant. Eternity is not fire and brimstone. It is an office floor with no exit. In that sense, Parsons film feels less like fiction and more like a very honest documentary with a yellow filter. When a building falls apart, demolition solves the issue. But when the ruin is your own life inside an endless cubicle. Cubicle, who exactly do you call to complain about the old Carpet smell. Good luck figuring that out. Okay.

[Mark Kermode]

Very good.

[Simon Mayo]

All right.

[Mark Kermode]

That's a good. I like that email very much And I like the. I like the comparison with. With the onset of the Internet. Very good.

[Simon Mayo]

And Frankie Ward has sent us an email. Well known esports, gaming and entertainment presenter and has an interview with Parsons on her YouTube. YouTube.com frankieward Anyway, hello. No clip. Mark and backrooms lurker Simon. As anyone who works in gaming and got to go. As someone who works in gaming and got to go to a preview screening of Backrooms, I thought it might be useful to give a backstory for backrooms Director Kane Parsons started creating his soon to be viral takes on the backrooms Creepypasta of the teens forum age. Creepypasta, basically an Internet horror folklore catch all term for horror content on the Internet apparently came from 4chan. That's originally where it came from and is a version of Copy Pasta, which is. Which was copy and paste. When you're taking a bunch of text.

[Mark Kermode]

Oh, that's where that comes from. Okay. I did cite the creepypasta origin in my review.

[Simon Mayo]

Right.

[Mark Kermode]

Thank you.

[Simon Mayo]

I was just updating it because. Thank you, Frankie.

[Mark Kermode]

Yeah, yeah.

[Simon Mayo]

Makes reference to the. Parsons made his original shorts using open source design software called Blender and with the 1990s camcorder effect. It's uncanny at the start of the original film. And I think that's also why the film is at its most confident when we're exploring the seemingly limitless backrooms. The film doesn't have enough of a reason for Chiwetel Ejiofor's Clark to be pulled into the backrooms. A flickering light doesn't quite have a feel up the basement and discover a portal through a wall compulsion to it. But once his camcorder is on his cohorts in tower. The film shows the potential of the world Parsons has built. And I hope he gets to see his nine episode limited series he's hoped for fulfilled, says Frankie Ward. Frankie, thank you very much.

[Mark Kermode]

Thank you. Yeah.

[Simon Mayo]

Can I just say nine episodes doesn't feel like a limited series. That feels like a very, very long series. Not limited in any way apart. That's all single figures only. But yes, you can go to 9. Anyway. More discussion on current films in our overflow car park on take 2. Available via Patreon. More in a moment. So I guess this week needs no introduction and then whenever that phrase is used there is then a very long introduction. I'm genuinely not going to do it this time. Okay. Because all you need to know is It's Richard E. Grant. He has a new movie out called Savage House. You'll hear our conversation with Richard after this clip.

[Mark Kermode]

Sir.

[Richard E. Grant]

D. It's a request from the Duke and Duchess of Devonshire. They're to begin their yearly Yorkshire tour and one of their hosts, Lord Vernon, has apparently succumbed to a grizzly bat of the pox.

[Mark Kermode]

What?

[Richard E. Grant]

What? What?

[Mark Kermode]

What is it?

[Richard E. Grant]

They need a place to dine and sleep in 10 days time and are

[Simon Mayo]

curious if we can.

[Richard E. Grant]

A cold.

[Mark Kermode]

No,

[Simon Mayo]

no.

[Mark Kermode]

Yes.

[Simon Mayo]

And that is a clip from Savage House. I'm delighted to say that we've been joined by one of its stars. Well, it's star, really. Richard E. Grant is with us. Hello, Richard. How are you, sir?

[Richard E. Grant]

Very good, thank you, Simon. Thank you, Mark.

[Mark Kermode]

Nice to see you.

[Simon Mayo]

That's a very nice linen shirt you have. Can I just compliment you on that? And whilst we're pointing out things on my. On my bookshelf here with nails, the film diaries of Richard E. Grant, which you sign, I think you signed to everybody back in the day, as you mad Richard E. Grant in the last century.

[Mark Kermode]

Yes, I'm that old.

[Simon Mayo]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's true. Anyway, Richard, very nice to speak to you again. Introduce us to Savage House and also Sir Chancey, your. Your character. So just take, take it away.

[Richard E. Grant]

It's an 18th century race progress man who has enormous appetites and pays the price for that. He marries, you know, he's a Welsh working class upstart who marries into the English aristocracy and leads an utterly debauched life of enormous excess. And as you two boys are old enough to remember Barry Lyndon, it struck me as kind of Barry Lyndon or masculine.

[Mark Kermode]

May I. May I just say, before we go any further, I sent a message to Simon because I had seen the film before him and one of the phrases I used was Barry Lyndon with leeches.

[Simon Mayo]

That's true.

[Richard E. Grant]

A little more speed. There are leeches. Yes, indeed, there are leeches because my character suffers from gout. So I have leeches put onto my infected toes.

[Mark Kermode]

Your character suffers from gout. Your character also suffers from gangrene. And during the course of the movie, you go from a state of poor health to a state of worse health. It is a movie that festers as you watch it does.

[Richard E. Grant]

And you're referring to a scene where just before this dinner that the whole movie is based around the anticipation of Duke and Duchess of Devonshire coming for dinner. I have to have my arm amputated. So it certainly tips into Monty Python like mode when limbs are coming off

[Mark Kermode]

okay, so give us the setup of what's happening with your character who is coming to visit and why have they been thrown into completely ecstatic disarray as a result of a letter that they receive?

[Richard E. Grant]

They receive a letter saying that in the middle of this pox, meltdown, whatever quarantine, that the Duke and Duchess of Devonshire would like to come and stay in their house for a few days. So they don't really have enough money to afford looking after these aristocrats, but they pawn every last jewel that they have in order to pay for it, do the house up, get the best food and chefs they can possibly muster and inevitably you know what's going to happen. The people who say they're going to come may not come. And in the midst of that, this character, Chauncey's alcoholism and gout and the other thing stuff happening on his arm. Gangrene sets in after a duel in which he's wounded, so his arm has to be lopped off on the day that the Devonshire's are about to arrive and have dinner.

[Mark Kermode]

And why is it such a big deal that the Devonshire, who were the Devonshires? Are they really that important?

[Richard E. Grant]

I think in this world of. Chauncey is so enamoured of trying to pass himself off as an aristocrat and be accepted that he thinks that this is his final chance to. I suppose the equivalent would be, I don't know, if Brad Pitt and his wife wanted to come and have dinner with you and you were living in the middle of nowhere or, or the current King and Queen said they'll be coming to visit you and you lived in, you know, the Outer Hebrides or something. Maybe this would get people excited and, and willing to sacrifice everything they have in order to entertain as royally as possible. It's not a documentary, Mr. Cavaud.

[Simon Mayo]

Now we should say, Richard, that you, Chauncey is married to the wonderful Claire Foy, who we've spoken to a number of times on this show. Hello to her dad who always writes in and says how about getting my daugh on your show again? But you, you, you and Claire Foy clearly not only get on very well in the film, but your characters do love each other and you go like hell flether into chaos.

[Richard E. Grant]

Yeah. Against all odds these, these characters fall in love with each other. She's an aristocrat who marries a lowly Welsh upstart and because she didn't want to be, fall into the trap of being an aristocrat's wife and leading a very dull, embroidering away life. So Chauncey is the guy who's full of life and excitement and extreme excess. So that is what attracts her to him. And luckily, because it's not always the case that the chemistry or connection you have with somebody else in real life, if that translates into a screen partnership, then that's the real bonus of it. And frankly, I never thought that at the right age of 67, as I was then three years ago, I would be. I would get a lead in a movie. So it felt like sort of double bonus.

[Mark Kermode]

Yeah.

[Simon Mayo]

And. And can you explain the kind of. The social significance here, Richard? There are a number of references throughout the movie, too. There's an outbreak of something that's going on. There's a Jacobite uprising. And also there's an eclipse, which we're all waiting for. So what's going on outside of the house?

[Richard E. Grant]

Well, it's basically 18th century version of COVID so everybody's in lockdown. And you have to ask Peter Glass, the writer, director, about the significance of the eclipse, I suppose because they were obsessed with science and discovering the. The nature of the new world being discovered at that point. The eclipse was an extraordinary event, as it would be now, but I think even more so then with the invention of telescopes. And what is the third thing you asked me? I'm trying to remember this.

[Mark Kermode]

The Jacobite uprising.

[Richard E. Grant]

The Jacobite uprising, I think, is probably what's going on in America at the moment, with Trump dividing the nation and what is happening here on our own island, with people being very divided about the politics, ready to, you know, turn on a hairpin and take to the streets and set things alight. I don't think anything's really changed in that department.

[Mark Kermode]

There was a quote from your writer director who said, I love period films. They allow us to be a step removed, to look in the mirror and see ourselves and hopefully laugh at ourselves without the preconceived baggage of modern life. And what you're saying is that this is an 18th century story, but it's. It's about today?

[Richard E. Grant]

Oh, I would never be so. So portentous as to say that, but

[Mark Kermode]

I think you just did.

[Richard E. Grant]

Doesn't really change that much, does it? You know, weed and social upward mobility, all of those things are rampant. So whether this was set in Wall street in the 1980s or in the 1780s, I don't think anything really changes except for the way that people dress. And I certainly have a wig, wig that is about 15ft tall.

[Mark Kermode]

I love wearing it's at one point, Claire Foy says, we're going to have to have the ceilings raised if your wigs get any larger because of this.

[Richard E. Grant]

In that. In that period, the men's clothing was far more flamboyant and peacock like than anything that the women could come up with. So that was a huge delight to be kitted out in all that stuff.

[Simon Mayo]

Did you arrive on set, Richard, flamboyant and shouty, or did you have to be encouraged to dial it up because you are magnificent throughout the film?

[Richard E. Grant]

Well, thank you very much. That's very generous of you to say so. Simon, there's no way that you can do this part. Going at it half measure. And mercifully we'd had rehearsals in on the first floor of a pub in North London in advance of starting doing the shoot, which you knew that you couldn't sort of go to half measure. And the great advantage of wearing these huge wigs, white makeup, beauty spot, ruffled clothes and high heels and in these actual great historic houses that we filmed in, it sort of gives you the license and the courage to go for it. But when you arrive in your cities at 5 o' clock in the morning every single day, I did think, how the hell am I going to, you know, try and do this? But you have to, you have to take a great leap at it.

[Simon Mayo]

And how different is your character to Saltburn Sir James Catton? How. Because you do seem to do these roles magnificently well. I just think you somehow there's something special with having you playing one of these aristos and I think you're gonna. Are you in Queen of Fashion soon? I think so.

[Richard E. Grant]

It's another one I am in Queen of Fashion.

[Mark Kermode]

So. So what is it? What is it that.

[Simon Mayo]

Do you particularly enjoy them? What is it? Is it your. Is it your voice? Is it your manner? Is it your bearing?

[Richard E. Grant]

What is it that is for somebody else to decide and to analyze or casting director? I have no idea. The best way of my answering is that the first screen role that I ever did 40 years ago this summer with Nana, I played such an extreme character that I think that if I'd begun my screen career playing an uptight butler like in the Remains of the Day, I would have had a completely different career trajectory. But because of that first thing. Thing being so extreme and vituperative, I. I suppose that's inevitably led me in the direction that I. I've played. But it's. I find it very hard to analyze yourself. It's how other people see you so you know, if I'm offered a part like that, I think they're great.

[Mark Kermode]

May I offer a suggestion? I think that one of the things that is key to this is the. The. The quality and the nature of your voice. When I was at Radio 1 in the 1990s, you very kindly recorded a load of interstitials for us for our film review show that we then used for four years. Because you have a particularly strong voice. And it's interesting because of course, you grew up in Swaziland. The voice that you have now is a voice that you have worked on and developed. And like Morgan Freeman or like other. This voice didn't arrive out of nowhere. You have a remarkable instrument in your voice and it has fitted particularly well to roles whether it's withnal or this. And it is an unusually versatile instrument.

[Richard E. Grant]

I think I've never been told that, Mark. And I'm blushing with kind of embarrassment and delight at the same time. Thank you. Nobody has ever said that to me. Thank you.

[Simon Mayo]

And just at the mention of Swarzerland. Before we finish, Richard, I just want to put this on the table again. I have mentioned this to you, but years ago, and this has cropped up in some of your storytelling, Mark mentioned Swaziland. I used to share a room at university with a guy called Becketmba Gamezi, who. Whose father was the last minister of. Who's the first Minister of education in independent Swaziland. And your father was the last minister of education in British run Swaziland. Correct?

[Richard E. Grant]

Yes. Yes.

[Simon Mayo]

And when you tell the story. And when you tell the story of your father's funeral and a priest throws himself into the grave to try and raise your father up from the dead, that's Becky Tembo, Kamezi's brother, who is the priest.

[Mark Kermode]

So this is.

[Simon Mayo]

This is my unique link to your

[Richard E. Grant]

story, Richard, that is absolutely extraordinary and it is totally true. Becky had come back from doing evangelical course in America and he was very young and impressionable, and he misguidedly believed that he could raise my father from the dead, jumped into the grave, undid the casket and try to raise him from the dead. And then he had to be consoled and dragged out of the grave because my father, you know, weighing 69 pounds or, you know, dying of lung cancer, lay inert.

[Simon Mayo]

Yes, he taught me some. Is it saswati? I think the language, I can still say lalagahi magini baba, which I think is goodnight, mother and father. Would that be right?

[Richard E. Grant]

Thank you.

[Mark Kermode]

And might I take this opportunity to say to any Listeners enjoying this, if you haven't seen Wawa do, because that's a really, really interesting evocation of that particular period that Richard is responsible for and is, I think, one of the films that you made that gets overlooked.

[Richard E. Grant]

Thank you very much.

[Mark Kermode]

Thank you.

[Simon Mayo]

And Richard, are you on stage next? Is it Hay Fever in the West End?

[Richard E. Grant]

I am with Christine Baranski. Noel Cowds, Hay Fever. It starts in September.

[Simon Mayo]

When was the last time you were on stage in the West End?

[Richard E. Grant]

I did My Fair lady at the Chicago Opera House in 2017.

[Simon Mayo]

Okay.

[Richard E. Grant]

Playing Henry.

[Simon Mayo]

So if you're going to go and see Hay Fever, an old Cowards Hay Fever, turn your phone off. Otherwise, you know, there'll be an. They'll be held to pay. You know how to behave. Richard E. Grant, always a great pleasure. Savage House is his new movie. Richard, thank you so much for your time this morning.

[Richard E. Grant]

Thank you, Simon. Thank you, Mark.

[Mark Kermode]

Thank you.

[Simon Mayo]

He has a great smile, doesn't he? Not only is he a great actor with a wonderful voice, as he pointed out, but also when he, when he grins, you thinking, okay, a little bit of sunshine in your life.

[Mark Kermode]

Magnificent hair. Magnificent hair.

[Simon Mayo]

That is true. And when you look at the old photographs of him, because I've got one here for the with nails, his hair is kind of exact. I mean, he's got more gray, but it's all there. Look at that.

[Mark Kermode]

That's amazing.

[Simon Mayo]

He looks great. He's always very watchable. Tell us what you think about Savage House.

[Mark Kermode]

Well, so just to recap, because, I mean, obviously we've just explained it, but just to recap for the purposes of the review. So this is Savage House is a British black comedy period drama from Peter Clancy, the writer director, who previously did longest week in 2014 and went on to be one of the co writers on Captain Brave New World. So the best way to describe this is it kind of comes on like and I know this because I had written this to you because I'd seen the film before you had and you said vaguely, what's it like? I said it's like a cross between the Draftsman's Contract, the Young Poisoner's Handbook, the Favorite, the Crown and Saltburn. And it also, as the thing that I cited, it's a bit Barry Lyndon with leeches, which is a phrase that I, that I used in that entry. But I liked it. So it's set in 18th century England. I think it's 1715, time of Jacobite unrest, outbreaks of the pox, as you said. And Richard E. Grant is the Hideously bewigged and slowly festering, as he said in the interview. He's quite revealing in the interview. Cause he literally told you what happens. Sir Chauncey Savage, who is a chancer who's married. Is he chauncy or chauncy? Chauncey. Chaucer. He's Chauncy Chauncey. He's married now, Lady Savage, thus acquiring her wealth without ever being able to shed his own humble beginnings. And we see sort of flashbacks to him as a boy from very humble beginnings. And he keeps having these visions of pigs everywhere. And he longs to be taken seriously by posh society. But he lives in this mansion that is crumbling and his finances are crumbling and his body is. Everything's like the Fall of the House of Usher. And then this note arrives saying that this couple, who. You said yourself, it's the Duke and Duchess of Devonshire, right? Yes. Why is that such a big deal? Why is that such a big deal? And as Richard E. Grant said in that interview, well, just because he just wants any social uppage that he can get. They say they're going to come and stay. Can they? Can they be accommodated? And so his entire life and the life of the whole household falls into disarray as they attempt to prepare for the staying and the feasting of this couple, who they consider to be so high up the social ladder that they will do anything and in preparing for it. And it's very much like we know from the beginning. It's going to be like Waiting for Godot. They are just ruining their lives even further. Claire Foy's character is having to sell all the jewelry that she's been hanging onto. You also made an interesting point that the funny thing is that the couple at the center of it, the couple played by Claire Foy and Richard E. Grant, both of whom, incidentally, I could watch, read the phone book, but both of whom, I think are having an absolute riot doing this. Weirdly, despite the fact that everything is falling apart and everything is crumbling and everything is rotting from the inside, and they're all fornicating with others, they sort of do love each other in a really kind of bizarre way. There is this relationship at the heart. Claire Foy's character keeps saying, he didn't lead me in and start. I chose him because he was exciting and different and weird. And that's what I wanted. He was my choice. But as I said, everything is falling apart. There is also this weird Barry Lyndon thing going on. So the cinematographer is Adriana Goldman, and there are Certain shots, particularly the dueling scene, in which it's the landscape, the mist, but it's almost like someone has taken the aesthetic of Barry Lyndon, drained all the life color out of it and replaced it with a kind of pestilence, a sort of, you know, pustules and darkness and gray. And there is, as you mentioned, the thing, there is gangrene. There are full chamber pots. There are entire piles of poo. There is an awful lot of handsomely heeled shoes stepping into steaming piles of pooh, and there's lots of inflamed spots. And the interesting thing about it is that all of this kind of matches the dyspepsia of the drama or the comedy. I mean, there are. I wrote this down as we're going. There are yucks, as in comedy yucks, and there are yucks, as in that's gangrene and poo. I mentioned that thing in the interview about the writer director saying, I like period films because it means that you can look at and laugh at yourself without while feeling disconnected. And Richard E. Grant, in that interview, said this thing about, well, you know, these. Very much like when you asked about the Jacobite thing, and he said, well, it's like Trump's America, isn't it? And then when I said to him, so what you're saying is that it's a period film, but it's actually about today. And then he said, well, I wouldn't possibly say that, Richard. I think you did just say that the tagline for the film is polite society has never been so savage, which pretty much lays out the bill of fare, which is these people are. Well, from the very thing about the name that the Savage House. And there is a savagery at the heart of this social consciousness climbing. It's a little bit like Grand Boeuf meets Waiting for Godot. It's the kind of the. Well, in that particular case, he'd be like the bourgeois satire. The thing about these people who are desperately trying to crawl their way up the social ladder, and they will do it, even if it involves cutting off their own arm in order to impress visiting, not even royalty, just visiting poshos who may or may not actually turn up. So the thing that I enjoyed most about it was how much I thought that Richard E. Grant and Claire Foy were having a ball. I know I've had this rule in the past, which is, the more people enjoy themselves on set, the less you enjoy watching it. This isn't the case here. I do think Richard E. Grant has got a tremendous voice and a tremendous screen presence. It was interesting that he himself raised Whithnell in that interview. And there is something of that grandiloquence, that pompous peacocking, you know, that incredible sense of self unearned self esteem. But there is also all the way through this. I mean actually it is true of Withnall and I because they are living a pestilent existence. So that thing when the heating goes off and he covers himself from head to foot in deep heat in order to. In order to warm himself up. So I can see exactly why Richard E. Grant love doing it. I think it's really important to say that if Claire Foy wasn't as good as she is, the thing wouldn't work. Because through her his ridiculousness is kind of mediated. Because the, the thing that the drama has going for it is that in a weird way, despite everything about him that is rancid, she loves him. And because she loves him, you sort of. Sort of, sort of love him too even. You know, but you know, you know, I mean, I don't mean you don't actually love him, but you. But you tolerate the pomposity, the ridiculousness, the weakness, the powder. The powder and the beauty spot that looks like you're literally sticking on a bit of the black death onto the side of your head. I mean it's a fetid film, isn't it?

[Simon Mayo]

Oh yeah, yeah. And if you tolerate this, then obviously your children will be next. You should mention the. We should mention the lower classes led very well by Bell Poley and. And Isabel Powley. I think it's Pauli.

[Mark Kermode]

Is it okay.

[Simon Mayo]

And Jack Farthing. Anyway, I thought, you know, so they're, they're downstairs. Well, Richard and Claire are upstairs just occasionally because Claire's doing her posh voice. I think it's the queen who are married to the queen. And the queen should have more jewelry than this. But anyway, it was good. It was good fun. Always nice to speak to. To Richard E. Grant if you see it. Let us know what you think. Think [e-mail] before we get to Mark's hotly anticipated review of Scary Movie six. Quick reminder. You can get take one and take two ad free plus our bonus take ultra every fortnight. Plus access to the wittertainment community if you go via Patreon. That's the thing you have to remember. And now we step with. How would, how would Richard E. Grant do it wouldn't be gay abandoned, but

[Mark Kermode]

he with triumphant fabulousness, with an era

[Simon Mayo]

fetid, fecund Fetid feck and disgust into the laughter lift.

[Mark Kermode]

Here we go. Yeah, right.

[Simon Mayo]

Hey, Mark, you know I love karaoke.

[Mark Kermode]

I do.

[Simon Mayo]

Can't get enough of it. Well, the unthinkable happened at the weekend I was in Showbiz North London's top karaoke night spot, the Acoustic Ladder on Saturday. And after unsuccessfully attempting the intro to Danger Zone from Top Gun four or five times, they kicked me out. Apparently I'd exceeded the maximum number of logins attempts.

[Mark Kermode]

Hey.

[Simon Mayo]

So to cheer myself up, the next day I went to the pet shop, the companion atelier. Psst, said the owner, do you want to buy a talking Centipede? Well, who doesn't? So I slapped a tenner down on the counter and took the little fella home. A bit later I said, hey, Centipede, do you want to pop to the artisanal pub, the fermentation project for a pint? There's no answer. Oi. Excuse me. I said, you want to come to the pub with me, little fella? Still nothing. So I upped the volume. Mr. Centipede, do you want to come to the pub? Then came from the tiny little box a voice. I heard you the first time. I'm just putting my shoes on. Centipede.

[Mark Kermode]

Yes. Very long walk. Very long walk for a centipede. Incredibly long. Yay.

[Simon Mayo]

Still to car Marks review of Scary Movie six plus any what's on business in just a moment. Now the Muppet Game has really caught fire. Mentioned it a few weeks ago and everybody wants to cast films where you replace everyone with Muppets, but you keep one central character. Yeah, Nicola T. In Bruges with the Muppets. Please. Ray. Colin Farrell. We'll keep him. Ken, Fozzie Bear, Chloe, Miss Piggy, Harry played by Animal, Canadian guy and partner Statler and Waldorf. Animal chasing Ray through the nooks and crannies would be amazing. Mark Pipkin, Dear Statler and Waldorf, Long term listener. Etc. The film that immediately came to mind for the Muppet game was whiplash. J.K. simmons playing the ruthless Terrence Fletcher as the only non Muppet cast member. And Animal playing Miles Teller's character, Andrew Nyman. And the fact that he's already an accomplished drummer means that he can avoid the usual months of preparation for such a role. Whilst there are not many other major characters in the film, Miss Piggy would be excellent as the girlfriend who Andrew discards to concentrate on his music. With Kermit a good fit for his supportive father. The other music students can be played by members of The Electric Mayhem, Dr. Teeth, et al. With Fozzie, Gonzo and other Muppets filling out the numbers for the band scene. There's loads of these. We'll do. We'll do some more.

[Mark Kermode]

Do you want one more?

[Simon Mayo]

No. Should we get. Let's do one more.

[Mark Kermode]

Yeah, go one more.

[Simon Mayo]

Okay, Florian. I couldn't believe how attuned I was with Simon on his second spontaneous reaction. That is to say Wuthering Heights. When I watched it two months ago, very early on in the screening, I thought Margot Robbie's Kathy with all her spoiled brat petulants reminded me so much of Miss Piggy. I simply could not get it out of my head for the. This is going to actually spoil the movie if you go and see it again. Not even the weird fleshy bedroom scene. I was still thinking of the Muppets. Henceforth, all attempts at conveying any sense of tragedy or gothic obsession were undermined and I found the flawed movie simply hilarious. Takeity tongue down with the Nazis. Hello to Jason Isaacs. Muppets do Peter Pan and he's Hook. How about that?

[Mark Kermode]

Laws loyalty.

[Simon Mayo]

Florian Correspondent kevin.com. let's get to the business in hand which says Scary Movie six.

[Mark Kermode]

Although actually Scary Movie. I mean it is the sixth one, but it's called Scary Movie. So back at the Scary Movie franchise has grossed nearly a billion dollars worldwide. The first two Scary Movie movies were directed by Keenan Ivory Wayans, co written by Sean and Marlon Wayans. The first one cost 7, cost 19 million, took 278 million. The second one cost 45, took 191. Then the Wayans is left or ousted from the franchise and Airplane director David Zucker took over for 3 and 4. Scary movie 3 and 4, which were co written by, well, not Jack Thorne because that's the other one.

[Simon Mayo]

Must be. It must be Craig Mason.

[Mark Kermode]

Craig Mazin. Okay, it's. It's becoming ridiculous, isn't it? It's. I think he wrote my phone book. Anyway, so the new film, Scary Movie 6 is the first time the Wayans have been back there since Scary Movie 2. And it is described as, quote, the spiritual sequel to the first two films. The spiritual sequel to the first two scary movies. Meaning practically that there are entire generations of Wayans involved in the credits. And the action also includes a lot of jokes about the Wayans being pushed out of the franchise and then some of the actors in the franchise continuing to work in the franchise despite the fact that they should have jumped ship because the weigh ins weren't there. And there's Also a very, very unfunny long running joke which I'm setting up because it's in the clip about a character being called Tuesday as opposed to Wednesday for contractual reasons. Here's a clue.

[Simon Mayo]

Clip the bag. There's a serial killer on the loose. Hello, Tuesday. I had been preparing for this for years.

[Mark Kermode]

Hello, mother. You look like Susie.

[Simon Mayo]

Should we hug? I really want to, but I'm a Republican now, so I'm supposed to be racist. Oh, girl, I think all white people are racist anyway. Come here. Okay.

[Mark Kermode]

Oh, okay. So this, I suppose, reboot is what it is. It's directed by Michael. I think it's Tiddies. T I D D E S written by Marlon Wayans, Sean Wayans, Keenan Ivory Wayans, Craig Wayans and Rick Alvarez. Marlon, Sean, Other returning actors, Anna Faris, Regina Hall. A whole bunch of people, essentially. Group of friends are real friends and frenemies reunited because the masked killer from way back, Ghostface, is back again. So the film opens with a cameo from Tyana Taylor, making a one battle after another joke about pussy don't pop, which is a joke that refers back to a film that was fairly recent, but all that stuff has already been and gone because we did a whole bunch of stuff about it and then it won, you know, best film and blah blah, blah and things. So. But because obviously it's been the nature of films, if you're making a joke about a film that's that recent, it's going to immediately be out of date. So it opens with a joke that's out of date about a film that is nothing to do with horror. That was the talk of the town last year. It ends with a joke in the credit sequence about a little handed killer, which kind of combines a previous callback character with what I think is a joke about long legs, but I wasn't entirely convinced. And then in between, we get all the stuff we had before. So the jokes about the rules of horror movie, because the whole thing is, you know, Scream. And then the scary movie was the parody of Scream. So about the rules of horror movies are stupid. And the jokes about how formulaic the nature of sequels and reboots is and the jokes about how stupid the whole thing is. Oh, and also, incidentally, a joke about white chicks. White chicks, the film, okay, which wasn't funny the first time around. We also get the jokes about the character who's gay but says he isn't gay. We get a character who's trans. We get a character who's got a small Mr. Happy we get a lot of humorless stuff about Wokeism, which feels out of date. We get a bunch of stuff about ice, which bizarrely feels out of date. We get some stuff about horror movies not winning Oscars, which is like. Just feels like. Yeah. And here's the essential problem. The main problem with the scary movie movies is this. They began life as a parody of Scream, which is itself a parody of horror movies. It is a smart. Scream is a smart, cine literate parody of horror movies from a director who knows the genre inside out. Now there's a program that I DO on Radio 4 with Ellen E. Jones and we did an episode not so long ago about parodies. And Ellen interviewed Keenan Ivory Wayans and he said he didn't like horror movies at all, wasn't particularly interested in horror movies. And that is the problem, because the best parodies are generated by people that love the source material. You think about Mel Brooks doing Young Frankenstein or doing westerns in Blazing Saddles or doing Hitchcocky and Chillers in High Anxiety, or. Or you think about the Zucker brothers doing Airplane, which actually began life as a serious film because Airplane is technically a remake of. I think it's called Zero Hour. And they took the script of Zero Hour and then put jokes into it. And then weirdly, when David Zucker then took over the Scary movie movies, they weren't good because I don't think he likes horror movies either. As far as the way and stuff is concerned, if you go back to things like Hollywood Shuffle and I'm gonna get you sucker, all the best gags in the new Scary Movie, which incidentally I think you could argue is the best film in the series. Although that's not a recommendation. All the best gags in it are from that previous era when they would. When you had things like I'm gonna get you sucker in which they were jokes about, you know, racism and stereotypes and white liberalism. And that joke that we heard in the bit from the trailer. Oh, yeah, it's okay, I don't mind, you're Republican. I think all white people are racist. That stuff stuff is the funniest stuff in the film. The problem is that that stuff is completely unconnected to the horror stuff. Although one could argue that the very beginning of Scary Movie there was the Scary Movie series. There was the joke about what happens to black people in. In horror movies is that they're always the first victims. But that isn't true. And it particularly isn't true if you're making a film which has got jokes about get out and has got jokes about notes. Those jokes aren't. They're not landing anymore because they're not landing anymore because the thing that they're laughing at is not true. So I didn't laugh. I could see how several of the broader gags could play perfectly decently to a Friday night audience, but they're nothing to do with being gags about horror movies. And that is a problem for an ongoing horror spoof series. Wes Craven said, and I interviewed Wes many times, that when he saw the first Scary Movie, his response was, wow, this town moves fast. I think that this sixth installment in the Scary Movie series proves that it just doesn't move fast enough. And incidentally, the Scream sequels let Scream down really badly. So it's not like there's a moral high ground here. It's not like the Scream series is up here in the Scary Movie series down here right now. They're all just sort of swilling around in the same slop. Particularly when you're in a box office top 10 in which you've got things like backrooms, in which you've got things like Obsession. This just all feels like it's very, very tired and old and there are some crowd pleasing gags that are in there that are Wayans Brothers gags and they're nothing to do with horror. And it's just having to bolt them around. The horror references is just tedious. It's a comedy. I didn't laugh. I can see that. Some people will. As I said, I think it's probably arguably the best in the series and it's rubbish.

[Simon Mayo]

Will it be number one?

[Mark Kermode]

Well, it'll have to dislodge backrooms and that's an interesting, that's an interesting scenario, but I think it'll open strongly because they. Because it's, you know, it's crowd pleasing stuff in the lowest possible common denominator way.

[Simon Mayo]

Correspondencevidomair.com if you see it and you would like to pass on some information, which is also where you can send your voice notes and videos to tell us anything that is on around you or you're responsible for which is cinematic or cinema adjacent. For example, Sam from the Sherbourne Festival. Hello, Mark. Hello, Simon. On Sunday 7 June at 6 o', clock, the Sherborne Cinema in Gloucester, local bastion of independent film culture, is hosting a very special evening of short documentaries with the Stroud Film festival continuing its 10 year anniversary celebrations. Expect vivid, humane, properly cinematic storytelling exploring

[Mark Kermode]

community time and resilience from reimagined folk

[Simon Mayo]

traditions to immersive family portraits and seven years of social change captured on 60 millimeter. Thoughtful, big hearted filmmaking with a Q and A.

[Richard E. Grant]

Tickets available via the Sherborne web website.

[Simon Mayo]

Sam. Thank you, Sherborne Festival News. And also before we're done, here's Derek. Greetings. My name is Derek Anthony Williams. I run Join the Night Shift Goth events. I'm running a two day festival here

[Mark Kermode]

in Doncaster at the unitarian Church on the 20th and 21st of June. We are hoping to raise lots of money also by doing it for trans

[Simon Mayo]

rights as I feel feel very much recently, trans people have become very much

[Mark Kermode]

the focus of a lot of negative attention.

[Simon Mayo]

We have a heck of a lot

[Mark Kermode]

of music over two days here.

[Simon Mayo]

50% of all donations go to the

[Mark Kermode]

Mermaids charity no matter what.

[Simon Mayo]

Okay. So Derek, thank you very much indeed. So. Jointhenightshift.co.uk. i imagine that must be for more information and yeah, and we would like to see your videos and we'd like to hear your audio. If there's something that you'd like to tell us about, send it to correspondenceodomayo.com that's it for this week. This has been a Sony Music Entertainment production and this week's team, Jen, Eric, Josh and Scarlett. The producer was Dom and the redactor was Simon Poole who was briefly back in the country. How nice of him to grace us with his presence. Take two. We're heading from big screen eruptions in Bridesmaids via a hotly contested five question film club on the Goonies and even more topical movie discussion in the overflow car park. Plus questions will be tackling whether YouTuber movies have finally shaken off their bad reputation. And a question on BBFC ratings. Why 12A and 15 and could those classifications actually change in the future? Come and join us on Patreon because it's a lot of good fun. Mark, what is your film of the week?

[Mark Kermode]

Savage House.

[Simon Mayo]

Back next week with reviews of Solo, the fall of Sir Douglas Weatherford and Disclosure Day with our special guests Emily Blunt and Colman Domingo from the new Spielberg movie. Thank you very much indeed for listening. I will bestow a year's ultra membership to our correspondent of the week, which why don't we give it to Elton in the classics chancel who told us about Greek fatalism because it was something I didn't know about. So very good, Elton. Thank you very much indeed. We'll be back with you in a few days time. And Take two has landed alongside Denver. This one.