Is THE MANDALORIAN AND GROGU a STAR WARS spin off too far? + Leo Woodall

Summary

Kermode & Mayo’s Take — "Is THE MANDALORIAN AND GROGU a STAR WARS spin off too far? + Leo Woodall"

Date: May 21, 2026
Host: Sony Music Entertainment
Presenters: Mark Kermode, Simon Mayo
Special Guest: Leo Woodall

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Overview

This episode of Kermode & Mayo’s Take is a lively mix of essential film reviews, current box office chatter, and an interview with rising star Leo Woodall. The main conversation centers on whether The Mandalorian and Grogu represents a "Star Wars spin-off too far." The hosts also review new releases (Finding Emily, Passenger) and run through the UK/US box office top ten before sitting down with Woodall to talk about his new film Tuna. Mark and Simon's signature banter, meaty analysis, and listener correspondence keep the show fresh and engaging, even for those not steeped in the films under discussion.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Mark’s Cannes Experience

• Mark shares his recent trip to Cannes, where he introduced the director’s cut of The Devils.
• He describes the surreal logistics and odd ceremony of the red carpet experience, culminating in successfully introducing the restored film to a packed audience, which included Peter Jackson.
• Mark’s verdict: “It was really moving. They've done an incredible restoration on it… genuinely commendable.”
  [07:18]

2. Film Review: Finding Emily

• Premise: A Manchester-set rom-com, starring Angourie Rice as Emily, a psychology student, and Spike Fearn as Owen, a working-class lad seeking an Emily he just met.
• Plot Mechanics: Emily uses Owen as a thesis subject to prove that romantic love is a type of self-destructive madness, helping him track down "his" Emily by breaching university data ethics.
• Mark highlights the “scrappy charm” of the film, especially Spike Fearn’s believable, heartfelt performance:

  “Everything about his performance is believable, even when the narrative contrivances are completely unbelievable.”
  [16:41]

• The mechanics of the plot are contrived, including an improbably omnipresent campus TV station, but the film's warmth and Manchester locale win the hosts over.
• Verdict: "Kind of charming and kind of sweet and kind of funny… I do love the Manchester locales. So generally I thought it was fine."
  [18:31]

3. Listener Correspondence: Movie Clichés & True Stories

• Two listeners, Ed and Jimmy, share real-life instances of people (Nicholas Alkemade, Juliana Koepka) surviving falls from great heights—stories that challenge common movie skepticism over such tropes.
• Simon points out that while these are exceptions, it’s “still a good rule: don’t fall from great heights and land in a tree.”
  [11:48]

4. Box Office Top 10 Highlights

(Segment begins [20:07])

• Top Gun Maverick [#12, re-release]: Noted for correcting a typo from the original ‘86 film (“ensure” vs. “insure”).
  [20:13]
• Obsession [#4]: Praised as “genuinely twisted,” with strong performances reminiscent of Mia Goth; highly lauded for its shock value.
• Sheep Detectives [#3]: “A curious mix of Wallace and Gromit meets Poirot style murder mystery… surprisingly good.”
• Devil Wears Prada [#2], Michael [#1]: “Streets ahead of everything else,” showing massive audience draw despite familiar/formulaic plots.
• Brief reviews of Shrek (re-release), Mortal Kombat 2, and Super Mario Galaxy Movie.

5. Interview: Leo Woodall (Tuna)

(Begins [34:16])

• About the Film: Tuna follows Nicky, a virtuosic pianist turned piano tuner (due to severe hyperacusis), apprenticing with Dustin Hoffman’s Harry Horowitz, and eventually stumbling into safe-cracking amidst criminal intrigue.

• On Filming & Preparation:

  • Leo had limited piano skills and learned piano tuning via on-set consultants.
  • “There's a lot more to it than I had anticipated... We had a consultant on the movie, Peter White, who is a piano tuner.”
    [36:41]
  • Discusses his rapport with Dustin Hoffman:

    “He is a very generous actor and when someone is that good, they really pull you into their world.”
    [41:07]

  • Many Dustin Hoffman scenes were heavily improvised, especially in the van:

    “You don't really know where it's going, but because he's masterful at what he does, it always comes back around.”
    [42:17]

  • Johnny Byrne's sound design lauded for “creating a new character in the film” through immersive audio techniques, especially important to conveying the protagonist's sensitivity to noise.
  • Leo also discusses his Brooklyn accent, shucking oysters for another role, and co-star Havana Rose Liu’s piano dedication.

• What’s Next: He’ll appear in an Anthony Bourdain biopic for A24 and head to New Zealand to shoot in “Middle Earth”.

6. Film Review: Passenger

(Begins [48:57])

• Premise: Horror/road movie hybrid about a couple who encounter a mysterious curse after stopping at a crash site.
• Draws comparisons to films like Dead End (2003) and “creepy woods” folklore.
• Praised for “very, very creepy atmosphere”, particularly effective night-time forest scenes, sound design, and performances.
• “I did find myself very gripped by it. ...As it goes on, the more it explains the curse... the less scary it becomes, but it's still entertainingly silly in the finale.”
  [55:41]
• Mark’s film of the week.

7. Main Review: The Mandalorian and Grogu

(Begins [66:28])

• Context: Latest Star Wars film, expands on The Mandalorian series, directed by Jon Favreau.
• Mark admits he's not deeply immersed in the show but delivers a clear review for casual and dedicated fans alike.
• Strengths:
  • Grogu (Baby Yoda) as a puppet is “the best thing about this latest movie… there’s nothing that looks or lasts as well on screen as a puppet.”
  • “If Return of the Jedi was, as they said in Clerks, Muppets in space, then this quite often looks like Michael Benteen’s Potty Time in space – and I say that as someone who liked Michael Benteen’s Potty Time.”
    [71:12]
  • Practical effects, puppetry receive repeated praise; reference to Werner Herzog’s notorious support for the original puppet.
• Weaknesses:
  • Feels like “an expanded TV series episode” due to its episodic structure and plotting.
  • “The plot isn’t very complicated, but there is a bunch of baggy plot exposition that’s basically sort of rolled out like instructions to a video game.”
  • Despite the IMAX spectacle, “two days after I saw it, and I’ve almost already forgotten absolutely everything about it, which seems like an underperformance for a film that costs this much money.”
• Bottom line:

  "All the things that are good about it are small, but it's very, very big. And it felt very baggy… like someone's taken your television and put it on the biggest screen possible and gone, all right, let's call it a movie."
  [75:47]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Finding Emily:

  “I wouldn’t believe any of this for one minute, but [Spike Fearn’s] doing it convincingly enough that I do.” – Mark Kermode [16:41]

• On Passenger:

  “There are some very wince-inducing set pieces involving shins and fingers… The problem with most action movies is they forget that the small things hurt.” – Mark Kermode recalling Ben Wheatley [56:00]

• On Star Wars Puppetry:

  “Herzog famously called the makers of the TV series cowards when they considered replacing the puppet… ‘the puppet was a phenomenal technical achievement… heartbreakingly beautiful…’” [71:19]

• On Mandalorian and Grogu:

  “It does feel like an expanded TV series episode, which is kind of what it is… I was never emotionally invested, and two days later, I’ve almost already forgotten it.” [75:47]

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Segment & Timestamp Guide

• [07:18] Mark describes his Cannes experience
• [13:55] Finding Emily review and clip
• [16:41] Mark/Sylvi discuss believability and charm in Finding Emily
• [20:07] Box Office Countdown begins
• [34:16] Tuna clip and Leo Woodall interview
• [48:57] Passenger review starts
• [66:28] Main review: The Mandalorian and Grogu
• [71:18] Mark compares Mandalorian’s style to Michael Benteen’s Potty Time (puppetry praise)
• [75:47] Mark sums up feelings on Mandalorian and Grogu

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Additional Fun Moments

• “Muppet Game” listener email:
  Recasting famous films with Muppets except for one original actor (e.g., Die Hard with Alan Rickman as the sole human).
• Listener Survival Stories:
  Real-life accounts that counter typical movie logic about falling from heights.
• Laughter Lift Segment:
  (Around [57:30]) Simon and Mark’s joke exchange, self-deprecatingly acknowledged as ranging from “high” to “worse”.

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Summary Table: Major Reviews

| Movie/Show | Main Points | Reviewer Verdict | |---------------------------|-----------------------------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------| | Finding Emily | Charming despite contrivance | “Fine, kind of sweet” | | Passenger | Creepy, atmospheric road horror with effective set pieces | “Properly gripping & thrilling”| | Mandalorian & Grogu | Fun puppetry, but big screen outing feels like a stretched TV episode | “Meh, underwhelming spectacle” | | Tuna (interview only) | Leo Woodall, improvisational work with Dustin Hoffman, sound design | Highly praised interview |

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Conclusion

• Film of the week: Passenger
• Listener Engagement:
  Mark and Simon encourage feedback from hardcore Mandalorian fans and call for more Muppet Game submissions.
• Next time: Reviews of Tuna, Power Ballad, Back Rooms, My Mother's Wedding, Fairyland and more.

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Recommendation:
This is a must-listen for film fans seeking candid, humorous takes on current releases, industry anecdotes, and star interviews—delivered in that inimitable Kermode & Mayo style. Even if you haven’t watched the films, you’ll walk away entertained and informed.

Transcript

[Simon Mayo]

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[Mark Kermode]

Which one was that?

[Simon Mayo]

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[Mark Kermode]

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[Simon Mayo]

So I don't have to buy a new SIM card when I get there?

[Mark Kermode]

Nope. There's no queuing at a dodgy airport kiosk. A Saily ESIM only needs to be installed once and then you use the same one for each country you visit.

[Simon Mayo]

Great. Does it let me skip all the other queues too?

[Mark Kermode]

Well, funnily enough, with Sali Ultra you can enjoy VIP travel perks like airport lounge access, fast track services, priority support, advanced online security and much more.

[Simon Mayo]

You'll be telling me we've got a voucher code next.

[Mark Kermode]

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[Simon Mayo]

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[Mark Kermode]

Hello, Simon Mayo.

[Simon Mayo]

I was just thinking the other day about the good old days.

[Mark Kermode]

What? The good old days in the Wild West. What's with the howdy partner thing?

[Simon Mayo]

Well, I was just thinking that when we started out in the radio. Yeah, we were lucky because we had each other to bounce off. But most people don't have that support from a partner when they're starting out in business and they can get overwhelmed easily.

[Mark Kermode]

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[Mark Kermode]

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[Simon Mayo]

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[Mark Kermode]

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[Simon Mayo]

Before we begin, a quick reminder that you can become a Vanguardista and get an extra episode every Thursday, including bonus reviews, extra viewing suggestions, viewing recommendations at home and in cinemas, plus your film and non film questions answered as best we can in questions you can get

[Mark Kermode]

all that extra stuff via Apple podcasts or head to extratakes.com for non fruit related devices.

[Simon Mayo]

There's never been a better time to become a Vanguardista. Free offer now available wherever you get your podcasts. And if you're already a Vanguardista, we salute you. So before we go any further, let us just. We salute all the people who put this show together at the end of the show. Yes, but I think at this point, the show, we should salute Josh, our engineer, who for reasons best known to himself, supports Arsenal Football Club, who at the time of recording last night, because of results elsewhere, won the title. Almost all Arsenal fans have either been watching the game or down the pub or rounded a friend. But Josh has just told us that, well, you do the punchline, Mark.

[Mark Kermode]

Well, rather than doing that in. Because it was, I think, maritally expedient.

[Simon Mayo]

Yes.

[Mark Kermode]

He went to Collage Club and he had a. Collage Club. Collage Club no one talks about.

[Simon Mayo]

The great thing about this is not only does it show great sense of, you know, proportion and he puts. He's putting his marriage first, but also it sounds like a sitcom that, you know. On the night that your team win the title for the first time in 22 years, where are you? I was at Collage Club. It's not even an exciting club. It's. With respect, you know. Anyway, so congratulations to our engineer who I think has made a commendable decision.

[Mark Kermode]

I think, honestly, I think that is really genuinely commendable. Do you remember the episode of Whatever Happened to the Likely Lads? When they were trying to avoid hearing the result of a football match? Remember that?

[Simon Mayo]

It was an England match.

[Mark Kermode]

Yeah, it was an England match. And at one point, one of them had seen the beginnings of a headline which was England. And then they couldn't figure out what it was. And he was in the middle of having a haircut and somebody started talking about it, so he rushed out and this went on and on and on and on. And then they finally get to sit down in front of the match and it's actually ballroom dancing because the headline was England rained off.

[Simon Mayo]

Yeah. Something that would never happen before. But anyway, so Josh, although us mentioning this has now made it quite difficult for a bunch of other people who say, I just said on the podcast that Josh, big Arsenal fan, he went to Collage Club, not go to the match. Why can't you be like Josh?

[Mark Kermode]

Exactly. Why can't you be. We should get T shirts, which. What would Josh do?

[Simon Mayo]

Yes. Instead of what would Jesus do? What would Josh do? Josh Would go to Collage Club because his wife wants him to.

[Mark Kermode]

Very good.

[Simon Mayo]

Anyway, how was can. Which is what I was gonna say at the beginning. Something I never thought I'd ever say to you ever again. No, how was can.

[Mark Kermode]

Well, something I. I mean, Cannes itself. I mean. So I arrived.

[Simon Mayo]

I mean, briefly.

[Mark Kermode]

Yeah, very briefly. I arrived Wednesday night because the. The premiere of the director's cut of the Devils was on Thursday and I was introducing it. So I arrived at Wednesday night immediately had a panic attack and got a headache, but. But bumped into a friend and Paul Laverty actually. And so talked to Paul Laverty about this, that and the other. And that was very nice. And then on the day, I sort of did my very best to just keep my head down. And they do this really weird thing because I was introducing it. We had to walk up the red carpet. And so in order to get to the red carpet, they put you in a car that's quite literally 150 yards away from the red carpet. And then you sit in the car for an hour in a like, holding pattern, like an airport. And then they finally let you out and then you bring you up the thing and you all face one way and a whole bunch of photographers take your photograph and no idea who you are. And I don't think those photographs will appear anywhere because it was, you know, me and Lisa Russell and Vicky Russell and, you know, not people who are immediately recognizable to the world. And then you turn around and then you do the other bank. Then you move up a bit more and then you'd face one and then you do turn around, then you do the other and then you get to the top of the stairs and of course I did. What you're not meant to do is I took out my iPhone to take a picture of it and was. The iPhone was wrestled from my hand by the security guards. And anyway, then did the. Went up and did the introduction. It was packed. It was the hot. Weirdly enough, it was the hot ticket that. That evening getting tickets for the Devil's Director's Cut in the Southbourne. Well, Peter Jackson was in the audience. Wow. Peter Jackson. No less than a whole bunch of critics and filmmakers. And it's. The response has been amazing. It's got. I mean, it's got really, really good responses. And. And then the next morning I had breakfast with Alan Jones, the good lady professor. Her indoors had come on the Thursday. So we had breakfast with Alan and Diego and then we got the hell out of Dodge. So for me it was kind of Ideal because I was there in did an event which I love. The film looked amazing. I mean they've done an incredible restoration on it. They've gone back to the camera negative. They've done it to the template of the director's cut that we did with Ken in 2004. And it was really moving, actually. It was really, really moving. So I had a not terrible experience in Cannes.

[Simon Mayo]

Okay, Mark, hey, put that down to experience. Okay. But you'll never go again unless similar circumstances arise.

[Mark Kermode]

I can't imagine another circumstance that would make me want to go back.

[Simon Mayo]

What are you getting excited about in this podcast?

[Mark Kermode]

Well, I'm going to be reviewing and

[Simon Mayo]

not necessarily the same thing.

[Mark Kermode]

Not necessarily the same thing. And perhaps getting excited about Finding Emily, which is a new manager based rom com, which is a road movie horror movie. And Star Wars, Mandalorian and Grogu, which. Well, the title is self explanatory.

[Simon Mayo]

Yeah, that's a film based in the Star wars universe and features Mandalorian and Grogu.

[Mark Kermode]

Exactly.

[Simon Mayo]

Would that be right?

[Mark Kermode]

And our very special guest will be

[Simon Mayo]

is Leo Wardle, who is starring along with Dustin Hoffman. Although Leo Woodall is the star alongside Dustin Hoffman in Tuna, which I think comes out next week. He is certainly a buzzy actor. So we will talk to Leo Woodall. And then in take two, what are you up to?

[Mark Kermode]

There two animations in take two. Charlie the Wonder Dog and Tom and Jerry Forbidden Compass. And one of those two films is one of the worst movies I have ever seen.

[Simon Mayo]

Okay. I'm predicting it's going to be Charlie the Wonder Dog. But we will find out in take two before we get to all those enticing reviews. In response to point four of Theo Dombroski's email about movie cliches last week, how to disguise yourself as a denizen of movieland. And one of them was when you fall from great heights, discover that crashing through a tree will break your fall. Don't like a real person. Find yourself thoroughly dead. These are the things that get you annoyed and unrealistic in movies. That was number four. Well, Ed Freshwater. Yes, Ed Freshwater. That Ed Freshwater says, I agreed so much with fellow church member Theo's letter a couple of weeks ago about people sitting bolt upright after nightmares, because that was the first one. But one point of difference. In 1944, Nicholas Alkemade was a tail gunner in an RAF Lancaster that was shot up over Germany. Unable to reach his parachute and with his aircraft on fire, Alkemade took the terrible decision to jump out of the Plane leaping to his certain death from a height of 18,000ft.

[Mark Kermode]

Wow.

[Simon Mayo]

Except he landed in a tree and survived. His injuries from the fall itself amounted to a sprained knee. His improbable escape led the Germans to think he was a spy until the wreckage was found and he gained some celebrity as an inmate in the notorious stalag Luft3. His captors even made him a certificate to prove his account. A quite remarkable story that deserves repeating. Wow. So it's fair to say that in general if you fall from a great height and land in a tree, it's not good. However, for Nicholas Alkemid, even though he was in tragic circumstances, imagine falling that distance, landing in a tree and spraining your knee.

[Mark Kermode]

Wow. Well Ed, thank you so much for that incredible piece of information.

[Simon Mayo]

And Jimmy says a couple of weeks ago a Lister wrote in about unrealistic movie moments and their real world consequences, including how falling from a great height into a tree is very unlikely to save your life. That immediately caught my attention as I'm currently reading How I Fell from the sky by Juliana Koepka tells the extraordinary true story of Lancer Flight 508 which broke up midair over the Amazon after being struck by lightning. Juliane describes leaving the plane till strapped, still strapped to her seat, seeing the jungle spinning below and crashing into the rainforest. Despite serious injuries, she survived alone for nearly two weeks before being found, helped by survival skills she'd learnt through her parents conservation work in the rainforest. A kind of a setup that if that was in a movie you'd think, no, I don't think I'm going to believe that. The book also mentions a man at the airport whose reservation on the same flight was cancelled at the last minute and who angrily tried to board. Anyway, that man was Werner Herzog who later made the film Wings of Hope about Juliana's story. He also contributes a perfectly Herzogian blurb to the book which is she didn't leave the aeroplane. The aeroplane left her. Apologies if this has already been mentioned on the show. I'm a bit behind anyway, so in general I think that the rule is still a good one, which is don't fall from great heights and land in a tree because it won't do you any good. However, obviously there are exceptions to most rules. [e-mail] let's talk about a brand new film that's out there.

[Mark Kermode]

So Finding Emily, which is a Manchester set rom com from writer and forgive me if I'm pronouncing this incorrectly, Rachel Hiram I would say, or herons. And director Alicia McDonnell. So Angori Rice, who's been in loads of things we loved, Mayor of Easttown and she was the daughter in Mary of East. So she's Emily, she's on a student visa at Manchester, I think it's the uni. Manchester Uni, where she's finishing a psychology degree and there's a position on offer that would secure her status there. But in order to do, to get that position she has to deliver an absolutely kick ass dissertation as a sort of final part of what she's doing. And so what she's doing on is the proof that romantic love is a form of self destructive madness. It's like an evolutionary hangover. And she finds a perfect if unknowing subject in Owen, who is played by Spike Fern who was the screen international star of Tomorrow a year a couple of years ago. So he's a working class lad, he works at the college and he's desperately searching for an Emily that he met. He met her at the bar where he was working and she was dancing and they kind of really got on. And he knows her name is Emily, but he doesn't know anything else. She gave him her phone number, but looks like she missed out one number from the phone number. So all he knows is Emily, hence finding Emily. So he goes to the university and says, I'm trying to find this girl. Here's a clip.

[Simon Mayo]

Oh, I don't know her last name.

[Mark Kermode]

Well, I can't help you then.

[Simon Mayo]

Don't you have like a directory with all the students names on or. No, it's just I really need your help because. Yeah, I've got something of hers. That's what it is. I've got this. This is hers. Well, it was her dad's and there was this fire and it was really like kind of. Yeah, that's a lie. Do you want the truth? No, I don't. I met her last night and just really got on with her. Her hair's about here and she drinks beer bottles and she's funny, smart. Have you ever met somebody in la? All that you've got going on in your mind just doesn't matter anymore. And like the light at the end of your tunnel, you just, you're just standing in this light and you just like, just like. Oh my God. But then always just like. Please, could you just tell me like what class she's in maybe or. I feel like it might be the most important thing you ever do. You've got two seconds to leave before I call security.

[Mark Kermode]

All right?

[Simon Mayo]

Yeah. Okay.

[Mark Kermode]

All right. So he's convinced that the Emily that he met briefly is the one she. The different Emily, the one that's doing the psychology degree, is convinced that romantic love has basically driven him mad and therefore he's a perfect subject. So she conspires to help him try and find his Emily by getting access to those email addresses of every Emily at the college, which is a breach of data, but also a breach of ethics because he doesn't know that she is writing a thesis on him. So, I mean, obviously the setup is vaguely preposterous, but it's a rom com and the film's largely carried by the scrappy charm of its leads, particularly, I have to say, Spike Fern, who has the sort of gangly, awkward, love struck, lovable Persona to a team. And I think you heard it in that clip. I mean, I think it is a very charming performance by him. Everything about his performances is believable, even when the narrative contrivances are completely unbelievable. So it's like, well, I wouldn't believe in any of this for one minute, but he's doing it convincingly enough that I, that I do. Angori Rice has the harder role because I actually never believe for one minute that in her, in her student status or in her dissertation or in a course or. I mean, it's not her fault. I actually think that it would be hard for anyone to make that role convincing because that role is the contrivance role, that role is the. Okay, you have to believe that here is a person working on this dissertation and blah, blah, blah. And I think, okay, I don't believe in any of that. That is absolutely mechanics. I also didn't believe for one minute in the on campus television station, which seems to be broadcasting 24 hours a day and has big screens out everywhere, so that at any time of day or night people can see things about this, this story on this big tv. I mean, if you, you know, I was at Manchester in the 80s, I know it was a different era, but if you ever did university radio, you'll know that you might as well have just been talking, you know, down, down a toilet roll in, in your, in your own room.

[Simon Mayo]

And unless, unless you were on university radio, in which case you were closed down because we were broadcasting not to the campus, but apparently to the submarine fleet.

[Mark Kermode]

Yes.

[Simon Mayo]

The Ministry of Defense shut down the university radio station because it was broadcasting to submarines.

[Mark Kermode]

Are you serious?

[Simon Mayo]

Yeah, yeah, absolutely serious.

[Mark Kermode]

How. How were you broadcasting the submarines?

[Simon Mayo]

I don't know. It Couldn't reach Tossle Flats, but it could reach the submarine underneath the Atlantic. But anyway, that got sorted and then we were allowed back on.

[Mark Kermode]

Well, that's absolutely perfect.

[Simon Mayo]

Okay.

[Mark Kermode]

Also, I didn't kind of really, there's a whole thing going on about the warring factions among the various Emily's which are supposed to sort of parody, you know, campus politics people, the way in which people respond to the fact that there's this love struck guy who's desperately looking for anyone called Emily. You know, is he cute and lovable or is he actually harassing and stalking and all the rest of it? However, look, it's a rom com and rom com is not a genre in which gritty credibility is the driving force. It's a genre in which it's do you like these people? Do you care about them? And do you actually. Are you sort of anticipating in your mind how the thing's going to play out? So I mean, the whole thing looks like an advert for Manchester thriving nightlife, which frankly, I'm all up for. And there were more than enough chuckles and poignant moments to paper over the frankly gaping cracks in the narrative. I do think that an awful lot of credit is to Spike for him for making any of it believable because, because you believe in him and because you believe in, you know, Owen's sort of completely wide eyed infatuation, you sort of just go along with the rest of it. And like I said, it is, it is contrived and it's got every cliche in the book, but it was kind of charming and kind of sweet and kind of funny and I do love the Manchester locales. So generally I thought it was fine.

[Simon Mayo]

Finding Emily is the Movie. [e-mail] should you see it coming next? I'm not gonna ask Mark because I can tell you that it's. We're talking Star War, Mandalorian and Grogu. That's not three films, that's one passenger. And special guest on the show is Leo Woodall. After this, Make every get together chill this Memorial Day. Get up to an extra thousand dollars off select top brand appliances like LG

[Mark Kermode]

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[Simon Mayo]

This episode is brought to you by State Farm. You know, those friends who support your preference for podcasts over music on road trips. That's the energy State Farm brings to insurance. With over 19,000 local agents, they help you find the coverage that fits your needs so you can spend less time worrying about insurance and more time enjoying the ride. Download the State Farm app or go [e-mail] like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Okay, box office top 10. Here we go. Starting at number 12, top gun Maverick.

[Mark Kermode]

And everybody shouts Top Gun Maverick. Because that's what we do. That's what we do when we say Top Gun Maverick. But obviously we're in a studio.

[Simon Mayo]

This is a reissue. And this from Jonathan Smith, Dear Inshore and ensure. Speaking as someone of a somewhat of a pedant. Okay, has ever so much. Has so much ever been spent on a movie to correct a single typo? See attached. So I'll show you this. It's. He sent us like a split screen thing, right? And at the top it's. So this is like the. The text that comes up at the beginning of Top Gun, right? Top Gun 1986 it says on March 3rd, 1969 the United States Navy established an elite school for the top 1% of its pilots. Its purpose was to teach the lost art of aerial combat and to ensure insure that the handful of men blah Bl they succeeded today the navy calls it fighter weapon school. The flyers call it Top Gun. Right. And then Top Gun Maverick has exactly the same scroll except that lost out of aerial combat. And to ensure E N S u R E that the handful of men. Okay, so the flyers called it Top Gun. So in between Top Gun and Top Gun Maverick they learned to spell basically. Jonathan Smith geography grade B. Thank you very much indeed. Anyway, I think we know we're gonna. There's more Top Gun in a moment. But Anyway at number 10 it's Athiradi

[Mark Kermode]

which is India Malayam language action comedy wasn't press screen so if anyone seen it, drop us an email.

[Simon Mayo]

Shrek is a new entry at number nine.

[Mark Kermode]

It's just re released tastic at the moment, isn't it? So yeah, Shrek. You remember Shrek? It's Shrek. It's back in cinemas.

[Simon Mayo]

Yes, that's. And it's number 11 in America so it's doing very well all over again. Number eight here, six over there. The Super Mario Galaxy Mov.

[Mark Kermode]

This is its seventh week of release and it's still in the top 10. So it's done Terrifically well. Total box office at the moment looks like. Wow. I mean, 37. Yeah, it's taken a huge amount of money and it's just not very good.

[Simon Mayo]

Number seven is the Christophers. This from time Travel Prof. Awards season is earlier and earlier these days, but it won't be this movie that finally gets Ian his Oscar and bafta. The lone lady watching with me on a Friday afternoon struck up a brief conversation immediately afterwards as to what I thought. I thought it was okay, but freely admitted that I didn't quite get it. A fairly linear enough story, but I didn't quite get the last 20 minutes as to why certain things happened. She was hooting at numerous lines that Ian was spouting. She thought that this was his best performance on film. That's some praise for someone who told me they'd seen him in Hamlet at the Cambridge Theater. Okay, well, obviously time Travel Prof. Wasn't that excited. I think awards season will remember the performances and user you bunch of numbers. I Love this. Ian McKellen is an acting God and Michaela Cole plays off him so beautifully. Steven Soderbergh is a phenomenal director. Christopher's at number seven.

[Mark Kermode]

Yeah, I mean, I absolutely loved it. I think you, you said it was almost certainly one of your films of the year. Whether or not it is remembered when awards season comes around nine months from now remains to be seen. But certainly, I mean, I think the performance by Ian McKellen and Michelle Cole are terrific. And Ian McKellen said in that interview that the writer had said that they had written it for those two actors. And he said, well, I'm not sure that I believe it about me, but I certainly believe it about Michaela. I can't imagine anyone other than those two doing it.

[Simon Mayo]

Number six here, number eight over there is Top Gun. It is a 40th anniversary. Now in apparently in the States, they're on the same listing. So the reason that it's probably that it's number eight in the US Is that presumably that's a double bill of Maverick and Top Gun. Maverick.

[Mark Kermode]

So anyway, so when you say they're on the same listing, you mean they're on the same bill. You buy a ticket for both films.

[Simon Mayo]

Yeah, I mean, it just says here they're on the same listing as Maverick in the. In the American chart, which implies that they're together. Yeah, because they're both number eight.

[Mark Kermode]

Well, I mean, it's a heck of a double bill. Yeah.

[Simon Mayo]

Number five is Mortal Kombat 2, which

[Mark Kermode]

I enjoyed and I, you know, I thought it was. If it was good fun, I think it was an interesting adaptation of a video. I'm actually. The Mortal Kombat series over the years has generally had a kind of sort of, you know, a slightly raised. It's slightly better than some of the really, really terrible computer game adaptation. But no, I thought it was good fun.

[Simon Mayo]

Obsession is at number four, number three in America. Nick in Leeds says, dear Honey and Bunny, I just came out of Obsession having experienced the curious sensation of feeling a tightness in my chest and a stinging in my eyes during most of its runtime. Seems I'd forgotten how to blink and breathe. This is my new favorite horror of 2026, sorry hokum, and this year's Talk to Me. The cast are great, especially Indy Navarette, who really goes there. By the way, the wiki says it's Indy Navaretti, but I would have thought it's Indy Neverette. Anyway, it really goes there in a manner reminiscent of Mia Goth at her most fantastically deranged. And it has one of the greatest shock scares I think I've ever seen. Also reminiscent of an infamous scene in the debut movie by the Philippe brothers that you can see coming a mile away. Just makes it all the worse when it happens.

[Mark Kermode]

Yeah.

[Simon Mayo]

And Peter says it's an insane, deliriously over the top and incredibly noisy little number.

[Mark Kermode]

For sure.

[Simon Mayo]

For sure. Which you find yourself laughing at one minute and then choking on your popcorn in horror the next, and then somewhere in between not being sure how to react at all. That's Obsession number three in America, Number four in the uk.

[Mark Kermode]

I really liked it. It is genuinely twisted. It works because it's a. It's a horror movie with an outlandish conceit. You know, it's the monkey's paw thing. It's the. It's to be careful what you wish for. But it's also a story about coercion and control and the horror of coercion and control. And it's absolutely. I mean, in my review, I made specific reference to the Philippe brothers, because there is that. I mean, when it turns nasty, it turns genuinely nasty. And I came out of it, and then Boyd Hilton. I saw Boyd afterwards and he went, you know, wow, that was really wasn't. It was really.

[Simon Mayo]

Boyd Hilton is another one who we won't be seeing for weeks after the Arsenal victory.

[Mark Kermode]

Is he an Arsenal supporter?

[Simon Mayo]

He's an Arsenal supporter, yeah.

[Mark Kermode]

Okay, so he's. They call that a Gooner.

[Simon Mayo]

They're Gooners. They're. And they're everywhere. It's like an infestation, basically. But anyway, Boyd will be very happy. Hello, Boyd. The Sheep Detectives is at number three. Number five over there. Matt and Deb in Mac say the audience in our screening were an interesting mix of young families and retired couples. And the film proved to be suitable for both as it was a curious mix of Wallace and Gromit meets Poirot style murder mystery, with the focus squarely being on. Suitable for Sheep were clearly the stars of the show, with a range of recognizable voice actors lending their tones to a diverse cast of ovine characters who were far smarter than the humans. It was a very enjoyable way to spend an afternoon surrounded by an audience clearly enjoying themselves while outside it was raining. Oh, and Emma Thompson was clearly enjoying herself immensely, which was delightful. Sheep Detectives number three.

[Mark Kermode]

Yeah, well, I. I really enjoyed it and I was kind of baffled by how much I did, because I did go in thinking, I have no idea what this is, but it does look like Babe meets Knives out. And it is that. But it's also some other lovely things. We had a couple of emails last week from people talking about how it's also about, you know, poignancy and loss and grief. It's. It's really surprisingly good.

[Simon Mayo]

And the top two are the very top two, because in total box office, they are streets ahead of everything else put together. Devil Wears Prada is at number two.

[Mark Kermode]

You know, it's a series of set pieces strung together by a completely mechanical plot in order to get the people in the room so they can do the things that you like doing to enormous success. Yeah.

[Simon Mayo]

Speaking of which, number one is Michael.

[Mark Kermode]

And it's not just number one. Once again, it's very number one. This is now its fourth week and it's. Yeah, I mean, it's. It's just absolutely coining it. And I'm. I can understand, as I said, I had this conversation with Robbie Collins that it is, as far as a nuts and bolts biopic is concerned, it's solidly made and the performances are, you know, pretty decent, but it's also horrifyingly skirting around. It's not, you know, it is the elephant in the room.

[Simon Mayo]

It's.

[Mark Kermode]

It's. You can't tell that story well. You can't. You shouldn't tell that story without acknowledging the other story. But this has done. And it's doing incredibly well as a result of it.

[Simon Mayo]

Yeah. So the total box office, the figures I've got here, that roughly 40 million devil wears Prada to 27 million and then sheep detect is 5, and then everything else is just miles behind. So they're going to be two of the biggest films of the year.

[Mark Kermode]

Yeah, I mean, I, I have to say, I. I thought Sheep Detectives would do well. I mean, actually better. Better than that, I suppose. I mean, Sheep Detects only in its second week, but. But yeah, you're quite right. The difference between it and then Devil Wears Prada and Michael, it's just they're not even in the same ballpark.

[Simon Mayo]

More discussion on current films in the overflow car park in take two, which is available via Patreon. Moments away from my conversation with Leo Woodall. You thought this was your Run Club era.

[Leo Woodall]

Turns out it was more of a

[Simon Mayo]

thinking about Run Club era.

[Leo Woodall]

The good news, someone's marathon training is about to start.

[Simon Mayo]

Sell your workout gear on Depop.

[Leo Woodall]

Just snap a few photos and we'll take care of the rest. They get their race day fit and

[Simon Mayo]

you get a payout for trying.

[Leo Woodall]

Someone on Depop wants what you've got. Start selling now, Depop.

[Simon Mayo]

Where taste recognizes taste.

[Mark Kermode]

The road to the NBA Finals ends

[Simon Mayo]

here, with star guard setting the tone.

[Mark Kermode]

The Cavs eye another upset, while the Knicks carry the dreams of all of New York. The eastern conference finals continue on espn and abc.

[Simon Mayo]

Okay, Leo Woodhall in just a moment. It's Navaretti. We have just been. Yeah.

[Mark Kermode]

Apparently we found a video of her saying her own name and it is Navaretti. We stand completely correct.

[Simon Mayo]

Just because she says it that way doesn't mean it's correct. But it also means that is the way we will be saying it.

[Mark Kermode]

Yes, along with Scarlett Johansson, who that's, you know, with it. With. With the hard J. And of course, Mark Kermode.

[Simon Mayo]

Yes, that's why we're straight.

[Mark Kermode]

Although that is actually correct.

[Simon Mayo]

So also you pronounce it Leo Woodall, which is a very, very straightforward way to pronounce it. But before we get there, just a quick reminder that you can get Take One and Take Two ad free, plus our bonus Take Ultra every fortnight, plus the ability to vote on items in the show, contribute to the Laughter, lift and a bunch more of stuff by heading to our Patreon, which is officially better than Bob Dylan's Patreon. And also you get this. So this extra show, Take Ultra, ends with a feature called One Last Thing, where the idea is that Mark and I recommend something from our broad hinterland of other experiences, which is a feature that Mark is struggling with it.

[Mark Kermode]

No, no, I'm not struggling. Last last week, I gave you a great Recommendation.

[Simon Mayo]

Yeah. For something that you'd already talked about, which is kind of not the point. But anyway, when I was talking about Patrick Radham Keefe's book London Falling, in my kind of rambly way, I said at the end, it will make you very angry about the Russian oligarchs and their money. Which is true. What I didn't mention was it will also make you angry about, let's just say, the authorities, who clearly have allowed a bunch of stuff to happen, whether that be successive governments, the Metropolitan Police or whoever. But it's a fantastic read and he's a great storyteller. That's what I meant to say, and only realized after you disappeared to Cannes that that's what I should have mentioned.

[Mark Kermode]

Mentioned.

[Simon Mayo]

It was also picked up again in the Sunday Times at the weekend. So it is a story that's. That's continuing. So Leo Woodall is our top guest shot to prominence for a lot of people as seductive Wide Boy Jack in season two of the White Lotus, alongside Tom Hollander. One day playing Dexter Mayhew, the very popular Netflix series based on the David Nichols book Nuremberg, most recently, of course, which I think you really like, Mark.

[Mark Kermode]

I did, yeah. Yeah. No, I did like you weren't expecting it to.

[Simon Mayo]

Leo plays a young American soldier assigned as a German translator who monitors captured Nazi leaders. And also on the posters, Bridget Jones, Mad about the Boy. He was the Boy, the romantic lead opposite Rennie Zellweger. Anyway, he's a man of the moment. He's also the star of a new movie called Tuna T U N T. You'll hear my conversation with him after this clip. Harry Horowitz is kind of Tune and Repair. This is Nikki.

[Mark Kermode]

He is my apprentice.

[Simon Mayo]

He has a hearing condition, but, believe

[Mark Kermode]

it or not, is it virtuoso? Virtuoso, huh? Maybe you can inspire.

[Leo Woodall]

Okay, thank you, Harry.

[Mark Kermode]

Close your eyes. What's this?

[Leo Woodall]

C, F sharp, E7, flat 9, F sharp, G A, A sharp, B over D sharp.

[Simon Mayo]

You never take those out?

[Leo Woodall]

No, I get hyper cusis. I'm allergic to loud noises. Hello. You know how long you're going to be? It's loud.

[Simon Mayo]

As long as it takes, unless you can open the safe. And that's a clip from Tuna. It stars Leo Woodall, who joins us. Hello, Leo. Welcome to the show.

[Leo Woodall]

Hi, Simon. Thank you for having me.

[Simon Mayo]

It's very nice to see you. Congratulations on Tuna, which is hugely enjoyable. I loved every minute. Introduce us to the film and introduce us to your character, Nikki White.

[Leo Woodall]

So Tuna follows the story of Nicky White, a young man who is a virtuoso pianist, except that he has hyperacusis condition where you are basically allergic to loud noises. So he can no longer play piano, but he tunes them with his boss slash uncle, played by Dustin Hoffman. And Nikki finds himself in a little bit of hot water with some questionable men where he learns to crack safe.

[Simon Mayo]

Okay, so a couple of things to sort out. First of all, hyperacusis just. I know you said it's allergic to loud sound, but just tell us. So every time we see you, you've got earbuds in with. With cabling and sometimes you put over ear headphones in as well. Just tell us more about hyperacusis and why it's so important to the story.

[Leo Woodall]

It's a condition that. That makes you hyper. Hypersensitive to sound. So much so that, you know, a dog barking or anything loud can cause extreme pain, sometimes even seizures. And it's a very crippling condition that doesn't really allow you to live a normal life. So whenever Nikki has to go outside, he wears those big ear muffs, which are still not necessarily appropriate for the sound of life.

[Simon Mayo]

So you're a piano tuner. What I loved about the film is that I can't remember seeing a movie where piano tuning is at the heart of it. And you've mentioned that he's ended up as a piano tuner because he can't be a fantastic pianist, but he still has an incredible ear. How did you, or to what extent did you learn the art of piano tuning?

[Leo Woodall]

I did it as much as I could. I did it as much as I could. It's a. It's. There's a lot more to it than I had anticipated. And what you would maybe think is involved because it's a really complicated and intricate instrument. And we had a consultant on the movie, Peter White, who. That's his job. He's a piano tuner. And he walked me and there were. There were. There are a couple, actually, another man called Dwayne. And we. We just would always be sort of looking at what the sound would sound like if it's out of tune. And to put it in very basic terms, if you hit a key and makes a sort of sound, you know it's out of tune. You want the. The key to make one long, drawn out sound and that's how you know it's in tune. But there are three strings to every key on the piano, and if one of them is slightly out of tune, then. Then you gotta fix it.

[Simon Mayo]

So you went to piano tuning school, basically?

[Leo Woodall]

Essentially, yeah.

[Mark Kermode]

Yeah.

[Simon Mayo]

Which I imagine is one thing, learning to play the piano is another thing. I mean, you have to have a few basics there. What did you know before you started this movie about playing the piano?

[Leo Woodall]

Not a whole lot, Simon.

[Simon Mayo]

I,

[Leo Woodall]

I was always drawn to the instrument, but, you know, to even play a piece two handed was, Was not in my wheelhouse. So it was great to kind of develop any limited skill that I had on the, on the instrument. And we had a lot of really good coaches and teachers and we did months and months of training.

[Simon Mayo]

And I imagine when you're being shot for a movie, a lot of it is because obviously stuff can be created, you know, afterwards. But the way you sit, the position of your hands, your, your whole posture is the thing that makes us believe that Nikki is playing the piano.

[Leo Woodall]

Like you say, even, even where you sit on the stool where you're, you know, how your hand is supposed to be positioned over the keys were very intricate but really essential details.

[Simon Mayo]

So you're working with Dustin Hoffman? Extraordinarily, so. Dustin plays Harry Horowitz. It's his piano tuning business. And Nicky is like his, you know, his apprentice. But the key thing is you are doing all these scenes, particularly in the first half of the film, with one of the great movie stars of all time. Was it always Dustin? Did you know when you signed on for the movie that it would be Dustin Hoffman?

[Leo Woodall]

I did, yeah. I think it, I wasn't sure if it was official, but I did know that the part was, was written for him. Okay.

[Simon Mayo]

And you've, you've played with some very big stars. Is it more scary to act with Dustin or with Russell Crowe?

[Leo Woodall]

Good question. I think. Let me get back to you on the onus because it's, they're scary in different ways.

[Simon Mayo]

Yes. Russell's.

[Leo Woodall]

Russell's. I love him. He's. He's become a friend and. But he's, he's an imposing figure, so that was, that was intimidating. And he's also, you know, he's Russell Crowe. Dustin. Dustin's, you know, very sort of gentle, sweet, funny man. But I didn't know, I didn't really know that going in. I just was desperate for him to, to like me, to think that I was good at. Good at what I do. So that first date with him was, was pretty intimidating. But he's such a generous, He's a very generous actor. And when someone is that good, they really pull you into their world.

[Simon Mayo]

I got, I got the impression that he was in charge of every scene. And that he also could have gone off and got. In fact, maybe he did go off on tangents and you just had to follow the tangent. So when you're doing scenes like in the van or in his house, are you on your metal all the time? Does he improv? How do those scenes go?

[Leo Woodall]

Oh, yeah, we. Most of what you see of us in that film is improvised. He has a thousand stories to tell and he would tell them and we would have these short scenes of dialogue that would be up to half an hour takes because we're just riffing. And particularly in that van was where we were able to sort of build our dynamic a lot and our relationship. He just, he just goes off on one and you don't really know where it's going. But because he's a. He's masterful at what he does, it always comes back around in a very buttoned up, sort of perfect way.

[Simon Mayo]

Yeah. I wonder if the. So the director is Daniel Rower. It is Oscar winning because he was the man behind Navalny. But this is his first story which he's telling and I wonder if actually a background in documentary making was ideal for those kind of scenes where he just keeps rolling. You know, it's. There's no script, he's filming a documentary. So maybe that's how he felt when he was doing those scenes.

[Leo Woodall]

Yeah, I think the two went hand in hand. I think it was really freeing as a performer to feel. Feel like, you know, the person who's capturing you is. Is. Is just wanting you to. To behave like a human and not, you know, you're not sort of shackled by, by anything. And I think ultimately, you know, Daniel also just loves movies, so he was able to marry the two incredibly well.

[Simon Mayo]

The other behind the scenes guy to mention, I think, I mean, being an audio person and a radio person, I've always like it when a movie sounds fantastic and the sound design is Johnny Byrne zone of interest. That was him. But particularly Sound of Metal. So the way we hear what you are experiencing, that there's jazz music and there's classical music and then there is incredible noise which leads to great distress. Johnny Byrne has done a fantastic job.

[Leo Woodall]

He's done an exceptional job. I think he elevates this film with his work. You know, for a story like this, in a film like this, I think his ability to really get inside Nikki's head, which when you experience in a. In a cinema is. It's incredibly immersive and really elevates the story. So yeah, his Work kind of created a new character, you know, in the film.

[Simon Mayo]

Yeah. Which I think people will admire very much. So your character, Nicky comes from where. What is the accent that you have to master for this?

[Leo Woodall]

Brooklyn.

[Simon Mayo]

Okay. How difficult is that? What's the most difficult accent you've had to do?

[Leo Woodall]

I've recently did a sort of Kansas accent, and that was pretty difficult because it's not, it's not actually South. It's not really Southern American, even though you think it is. Brits think it is, but apparently it's not. I think, I think there are little details that, that we incorporated into. Into Brooklyn for Nikki. One of them being sort of Harry instead of Harry. Harry. And I have obviously have to say his name quite a lot.

[Simon Mayo]

So in this movie we, we watch you as a piano tuner and as a pianist. What is the most difficult skill in inverted commas you've had to acquire in a movie? And I'm not talking about being Tom Hollander's nephew, not that skill, but any, any. Any other skill that you've had to sort of acquire as an actor.

[Leo Woodall]

Learning, I mean, the piano was, was the most difficult by far. I would say German. Learning German, okay, for Nuremberg was, Was difficult, but I recently had to learn how to shuck oysters for a part. And it was difficult at first, but one of those skills that, you know, you can now carry into the rest of your life.

[Simon Mayo]

Yeah, that's a practical skill. And just speaking of piano, we cannot finish the interview without mentioning the actor who plays Ruthie, who is the pianist and the person who your character falls for, played by Havana Rosalieu. Now, she is either an astonishing pianist and a great actor, or she has really learned all those art skills that

[Mark Kermode]

you've told us about earlier.

[Simon Mayo]

Because she looks amazing.

[Leo Woodall]

Yeah, she. She really hit it out of the park. It was so much work to get to that place and she, she put everything into it. She really loved that character and wanted to do her justice and she put so much work into. Into the piano side of it and everything else.

[Simon Mayo]

Yeah, well, it's very impressive and I love the film. Hugely enjoyable. What do we see you in next, Leo?

[Leo Woodall]

A film about Anthony Bourdain, an A24 film, is coming out in August, so I'm looking forward to people seeing that. And I'm about to go to New Zealand to do some Middle Earth work for, of course, for Gollum, and that I'm incredibly excited about.

[Simon Mayo]

Well, very good to speak to you, Leah. Thank you very much, Dave, for coming on the show and, and Good luck with all the oyster shucking.

[Leo Woodall]

Thank you, Simon. Thank you for having me on.

[Simon Mayo]

Just after doing that interview, I then interviewed Anthony Horowitz, the. The writer and screenwriter, and he said, have you seen that tuna film? I said, well, I've just interviewed Leo. He said, I just saw. It was like the secret film at the lff. And we thought it was amazing, thought it was fantastic. You must tell everybody about it. I said, well, that's exactly what we're going to do. So Mark hasn't seen it. Will you review it next week?

[Mark Kermode]

Yes, absolutely. So it's national press screening on Tuesday. I've actually packed that on Tuesday. And then we will review it on next week's show. So it opens next week. But I have to say I'm already excited about it. Not least because you mentioned Johnny Byrne, who I think is a really terrific sound designer. And the last time I was on stage with Johnny Byrne, he, in the certain point in his. In the interview, he reached into his bag and whipped out his Oscar, which is really fantastic.

[Simon Mayo]

If you've got one, you are going to carry it around.

[Mark Kermode]

I'm sorry, that's exactly what I would do. And I thought there was something so refreshing about somebody actually not being abashed about it, about somebody being really proud of the Oscar because he's an amazing sound designer.

[Simon Mayo]

Anyway, there's another movie out which Mark has seen and can talk about right now.

[Mark Kermode]

Passenger, which is the tagline for passenger is 130 million people take road trips every year. 15,400 of them are never seen again, which is encouraging.

[Simon Mayo]

So this is a Give that stat again.

[Mark Kermode]

Yeah. So the poster says 130 million people take road trips every year. 15,400 of them are never seen again.

[Simon Mayo]

Why? What happens to them?

[Mark Kermode]

Well, Simon, is it aliens? Well, okay, so this is a road movie horror movie hybrid from Andre Ovradol. Incidentally, I was just looking at the. Because we're doing the pronunciation things about Indy Navarretti. Yes. And I noticed that Alicia McDonald's Insta thing says. Not Alicia. Alicia. I think, in that case, anyway, from Andre Oeuvredol, which I think is correct, which is he's the Norwegian director behind Troll Hunter and the Autopsy of Jane Doe. You'll remember the Autopsy of Jane Doe because Brian Cox was in it. And Brian really, really liked working on that film. And it's a really good movie. Very, very little scene, but terrific. So Passenger is written by T.W. burgess and Zachary Donahue. Story is young couple give up their Brooklyn apartment, put their life into this van that they've bought and head off out onto the road like modern nomads, okay? This is their. Their new life, their new adventure. One night when out on the road in the dark, in the woods, a car overtakes them. And then the next thing is, they come across the car has crashed and they stop. Obviously, they stop to help. And it's. It's a grisly death scene. And on that car there is a distinctive three line scratch, like a, you know, something with three claws has scratched the side of the car. And after stopping to help, that same mark appears on the side of their van. Have they picked up some form of supernatural passenger? Here's a clip.

[Simon Mayo]

I saw these on the car last night. Three scratches just like that. You didn't stop, did you? It's something unholy.

[Mark Kermode]

Something's following us.

[Simon Mayo]

Save Christopher. Take me to death. Oh, my child. Give us your warning sign.

[Mark Kermode]

If danger is near, death is near.

[Simon Mayo]

No one outruns a passenger. Wow.

[Mark Kermode]

So that voice that you heard there, no one outruns a passenger. It was. That's Diane, played rather terrifically by Melissa Leo, who's very much an and Melissa Leo performance. So they meet her at a birding van event where, you know, where people who were driving with nomadic people in vans gather together. And she tells them, you're not for this life. This life isn't for you. There's a great line which she says, you don't take the trip, the trip takes you. She also very creepily informs them, in a very gremlin style, of the three rules of the road, which are, stick to the main roads, don't drive at night and don't ever stop. And that don't ever stop also features on one of the posters. So you heard from that clip the sort of. The generally creepy tone. The film's got a very, very creepy atmosphere to it. All the woodsy stuff at night is very atmospheric. I was reminded a little of. Remember I talked about Babakanvari's film Hallow Road, which is just the mum and dad out in the car looking for their daughter who's got into trouble on the road in the woods. So there's some really nice use of, you know, it's nighttime, it's dark, everything is just illuminated by the. The red lights on a parked car, the lights which are quite often flashing. So you see things and then you don't. You do and you don't. I was also. There was a. There was a film from 2003, little similar kind of horror, Road movie thing by Jean Baptiste, Andrea and Fabrice which was called Dead End. And in that film there's a family, it's, it's, I think it's Christmas Eve and they take, they take a wrong turn and they end up on a road to nowhere in, in a forest, in a car in the middle of the night and everything goes really, really badly wrong. So Andre Oeuvredol makes really good use of the kind of the intimate and flashing light thing. I mean it just works really well. You're in the dark, you're in the forest and the lights in the car are flashing so on, off, on off, leaving you, you kind of peering into the D and you know, you know that it's gonna go on, off, on, off and the next time it comes on there's going to be a scare. And it's in a way it's a kind of upmarket sort of visual version of quiet, quiet bang. I mean you do get the bang, but also what you get is the dark, dark red, you know, or dark, dark face. And it's, I mean it's really effective because the way in which it works is you have to really look at the screen. You know, you'll be somebody, you'll see somebody peering into the. Was that a figure in the woods? Was that, what was it? You know, and you do, you do the same thing and then it gives you a jump. There are also some very wince inducing set pieces involving shins and fingers. Which reminded me, if you remember, Ben Wheatley said that thing, I quoted it when we were talking about the, the Bob Odenkirk film that said the problem with most action movies is they forget that the small things hurt. You know, getting your, getting your fingers caught in something really hurts or something just banging on the top of your head really hurts. And Andre Ovidol remembers that also. Two great leads, Jake. Now Scipio or Scipio. This has definitely become the, the show of, I'm not sure how you pronounce anyone's name. And Lou Lobel, they, they really, really good as this young couple who you totally believe in is this wide eyed young couple, they've got this dream, they're going to go on the road, they're going to live the free spirited life. You know, they're going to be, it's going to be all nomadic. And I found it properly gripping and thrilling. Now admittedly, as it goes on, the more it explains the curse. Like you said that thing about is it space aliens? At the very beginning I thought is it space aliens? Because, of course, that's one of the first things you think as it goes on and the explanation is sort of revealed, it becomes less scary because it's at its scariest when you haven't got any idea what's going on. But that said, the final act, when it is sort of revealed and there has to be a denouement, to return to a word which we've used many times on this show, is entertainingly silly. I mean, it is silly, but entertainingly so. So some very good needle drops adding to a very good score by Christopher Young, Very good central performances and atmosphere to spare. And I. I did find myself very gripped by it. I mean, admittedly, I have got a thing about creepy woods late at night, but I think most people do, because I think that's what most fairy tales are based on. You know, you go off into the woods, you can't quite see what's going on, but you know, it's not good.

[Simon Mayo]

And there's a man with an ax, almost certainly.

[Mark Kermode]

Well, the interesting thing is in this particular case, it's not a man with an ax. And that's. That's one of the things that makes it interesting is you're. For quite a long time, you're going, what is it you. Because you genuinely have no idea.

[Simon Mayo]

There was. I can't remember which comedy show it was, but it was a spoof of the Waltons.

[Mark Kermode]

Oh, yeah.

[Simon Mayo]

And you remember at the. At the end of the Waltons, it was always a good night, mom, night, Good night, dad. Good night, Jim Bob. Yeah, and then there's a pause and then someone says, good night, man with an ax. Which.

[Mark Kermode]

That was very good.

[Simon Mayo]

If anyone can remember which show that was, do let us know. Anyway, but Passenger sounds rather impressive then.

[Mark Kermode]

Yeah, I mean, it worked for me. And as I said with those with the wincy bits, it's. It's not that they're. That they're gratuitous or anything, it's that they are. They are genuinely wincy in. In a good way. I mean, there was one moment when I actually hid my eyes behind my hands, like, okay, it's gonna be too strong for me then.

[Simon Mayo]

So high time then to lighten the load and to wait as the laughter lift draws up. So as soon as the doors open and we'll step in and enjoy ourselves.

[Mark Kermode]

Excellent.

[Simon Mayo]

That sounded weird. And here it is. Hey, Mark. Bad news, I'm afraid. Did you know my friend Gavin?

[Mark Kermode]

No.

[Simon Mayo]

Well, sadly passed away last week from a heartburn medicine overdose.

[Mark Kermode]

Right.

[Simon Mayo]

I can't believe Gav is gone.

[Leo Woodall]

Okay.

[Simon Mayo]

More bad news, Mark.

[Mark Kermode]

Worse than that.

[Simon Mayo]

We got burgled this week. Someone stole my camouflage jacket and my flip flops. Whoever you are, you can hide, but you can't run.

[Mark Kermode]

Ah, that's better. That's better.

[Simon Mayo]

Thanks. Oh, by the way, Mark, I'm sure not sure. Yeah, not sure if you. You'll know anyone, but I urgently need to rehome a dog.

[Mark Kermode]

Right.

[Simon Mayo]

It's a really feisty little Jack Russell. Barks from 6am through to 3am the following day. Full of character. If anyone's interested, send me an email and I'll even hop over the neighbor's fence and get it for you and we'll sort that out.

[Leo Woodall]

Very good.

[Mark Kermode]

Very good.

[Simon Mayo]

Good. Well, that was. I mean, that was quite a poor.

[Mark Kermode]

That was quite a poor, poor. Who wrote those ones?

[Simon Mayo]

Daw. Are you saying?

[Mark Kermode]

No, no, no. But who wrote the gags this week?

[Simon Mayo]

They're spontaneous jokes. They just came to me as the same.

[Mark Kermode]

The music started. So did you write them?

[Simon Mayo]

No, of course I did.

[Mark Kermode]

CHILD 3 Write them?

[Simon Mayo]

No.

[Mark Kermode]

Did Simon Paul write them?

[Simon Mayo]

I expect so.

[Mark Kermode]

He's not here this week, is he?

[Simon Mayo]

Simon Paul's main work is to celebrate Arsenal being champions. That's the only. Frankly, it's the only.

[Mark Kermode]

Do you think. Do you think he wrote those jokes while celebrating? Because it sounds to me like he did.

[Simon Mayo]

I like. I like Gaviscon being. Being a punch.

[Mark Kermode]

Yeah, Gaviscorn. That was fine. You started high. I mean, that was the high bar. If I'd known at the beginning that one wasn't going to. No, but. Because I thought it's going to get better, but it actually got worse. If you go back and do that gag again now, I'll laugh at it because in comparison with the other gags, it was funny.

[Simon Mayo]

Yeah, I can't be bothered. We'll move on after this. This episode is brought to you by Redfin. You're listening to a podcast, which means you're probably multitasking, maybe even scrolling home listings on Redfin, saving homes without expecting to get them. But Redfin isn't just built for endless browsing. It's built to help you find and own a home with agents who close twice as many deals. When you find the one, you've got a real shot at getting it. Get [e-mail]. own the dream. Did you know if your windows are bare, indoor temperatures can go up 20 degrees, turn the temperature down with blinds.com and get up to 50% off custom window treatments like solar roller shades and more during the Memorial Day Mega Sale. Whether you want to DIY it or have a pro handle everything, we've got you free samples, real design experts, and zero pressure. Just help when you need it. Shop up to 50% off site wide and huge savings on door busters. Right now, during the Memorial Day mega [e-mail] rules and restrictions apply. While you were having a great time in Cannes, by the way, I was heading to Copenhagen for a family christening, which all went very well and it was lovely. However, I, along with 20,000 other people, lost their suitcases because of various things he threw. So. And I still haven't got it. So I. I know I dress like a teenager, but I do dress up for a, you know, a family event. And so we went the christening in the Anglican Church in Copenhagen. Everyone's looking fantastic and I'm wearing jeans and trainers because all of everything else is in a bag in Heathrow. And because he's got an airtag, I can tell you where it is now. It's in Slough. It's in a cargo center in Slough. And it's not moving. Well, it's been there since Friday.

[Mark Kermode]

Can I tell you what happened to me coming back from Cannes?

[Simon Mayo]

Did you lose your baggage?

[Mark Kermode]

Well, yes and no. So we flew back from Nice, the good lady professor, her indoors, and I en route to a wedding in Manchester of my very good friend Al. Al the washball player. Not Al the washball player in the Dodge Brothers, but Al the washball player in the Railtown box.

[Simon Mayo]

You can call him Al.

[Mark Kermode]

I could call both of them. And she. It's her. She's Alison. And two washball players in my life, both called out. Anyway, so we got off the plane at Gatwick in order to drive from Gatwick to Manchester, where the wedding's happening, right? And we go to the baggage hall and it says, coming in on, you know, baggage counter nine. And we wait and we wait and we wait and we wait and we wait. Then an announcement comes over. Due to a technical problem, we can't unload the following planes. And they read, eight planes, of which we are the last one. So they say, what you need to do is to go home and report your bag lost, right? It's not lost. We know where it is. We can actually see the plane that it's not lost on. But we. That's what you have to do. So eight plane loads of people who can all see where their bags are have to go home and report them lost. And then rather than driving from Gatwick to Manchester, which would have been quite easy. We had to drive from Gatwick to the New Forest to pick up something to make up for whatever clothes we would have been wearing at the wedding, which were now on the tarmac at Gatwick, and then drove to Manchester, which, rather than taking three hours, took seven and a half. And our bag came back on Monday. I haven't.

[Simon Mayo]

I still haven't got my.

[Mark Kermode]

That's the airtag thing. What is that? So you can track your bag?

[Simon Mayo]

Yes, I can tell you precisely where it is. So when I landed on Sunday, I said, can I go and get it? Cause look, it's there. It's about 100 meters away. I can go and I can literally get it. He said, no, it has to go through the system.

[Mark Kermode]

You see, that's what. But that was what was happening at Gatwick. And in fact, there was a woman at Gatwick who was in tears because her car keys were in the suitcase.

[Simon Mayo]

Well, here's the thing. Here's the thing which I learned, which is the official advice, anyway, if you have medicines, make sure you carry them with you. Do not leave them in the suitcase. All my asthma stuff.

[Mark Kermode]

Right.

[Simon Mayo]

Was in the suitcase.

[Mark Kermode]

Yeah.

[Simon Mayo]

So, anyway, that's that. Anyway, that's enough griping. An email here from. Because it was quite gripey, Richie, Good day to your big bad selves. I was chatting amongst my friends, non church members, unfortunately, but I don't impose my following on others. I just suggest it very heavily. When we. We started playing what is known as the Muppet Game. So imagine a remake of any movie where the majority of the cast are played by Muppets, all except for one, who can be the original or your own choice. The best we came up with was Die Hard with Muppets. Kermit is John McClane, Miss Piggy as his wife, Fozzie Bear as the cop outside, Gonzo as the journalist who gets punched, Beaker and Dr. Bunsen as two of the terrorists, keeping Alan Rick as the main villain. How would the good doctors and opening up suggestions to the public recast the film? Will Mark recast the Exorcist, or will he give a curveball in Recast Transformers because it can't actually get any worse. P.S. on the Richie is a science teacher and he says on the project Hail Mary inaccuracies. I can forgive all of them, the centrifuge and so on. However, the one I can't get over is the fact that a teacher is allowed to leave school without setting cover. Leadership at their school would literally be saying, yes, yes, you need to breed the astrophage to save the. But what are you setting for your year 8? Anyway, so if we're going to recast films as playing the Muppet Game, that's very good. I've come up with two options.

[Mark Kermode]

Okay, go on. I wish I'd known about this in advance. We'd have to pick this up again next week. So I've got a chance to think about it. But you go ahead.

[Simon Mayo]

It was in the script that was sent to you. But anyway, never mind Barbie. I'm going to have a Muppet. Ryan Gosling, Emma Mackey.

[Leo Woodall]

Okay.

[Simon Mayo]

Dua Lipa. But I'm going to keep Margot Robbie. Obviously, she's. So. She's in there as the star. But maybe more interestingly, also Margot Wuthering Heights. So I'm going to have a Muppet, Margot. A Muppet, Jacob Elordi. But I'm gonna have a real character, which is Martin Clunes. So I'm going to keep him. And all the others are Muppets.

[Mark Kermode]

All right. Well, off the top of my head, if you were going to do the Exorcist, you'd have to have Miss Piggy as the mother, as the Ellen Burstyn role.

[Simon Mayo]

Okay.

[Mark Kermode]

You'd probably have Gonzo as Pazuzu because it's the right voice. You know, like, Gonzo voice is kind of a Pazuzu voice. Anyway. You'd have either Waldorf or Statler as Father Merrin.

[Simon Mayo]

Okay.

[Mark Kermode]

And then in the. In the role that we're gonna keep, I mean, probably Linda Blair. We'll keep Linda Blair because she's lovely, and that's great. So we'll keep Linda Blair, but we'll recast it like that. That.

[Simon Mayo]

Okay. So I don't know if anyone else wants to play the Muppet game. [e-mail] Anyway, Star wars time. Let's go.

[Mark Kermode]

You sound very enthusiastic about this, Simon.

[Simon Mayo]

Well, I've watched Mandalorian on. On Disney plus, and I like it. Well, the first series was great. Seconds are not quite so good, but I've been, you know, I've enjoyed it.

[Mark Kermode]

Okay, well, so Star Wars, Mandalorian and Grogu. So this is the latest Star wars franchise outing, a continuous continuation of the Mandalorian TV series, with which I'm not very familiar. I' seen a couple of episodes, I think, as you said. You've seen. How many series have there been?

[Simon Mayo]

I think there's just a couple.

[Mark Kermode]

But anyway, so the. So this is directed by Jon Favreau. Who's co creator of the series along with. And the script is written by. Co written by him and Dave Filoni and Noah Claw. So I'm going to read you just the official synopsis because there's always this thing with these things about you're going to say anything that you're not meant to say. And there was a thing at the beginning when Ali Plum got up and told us all to not give away plot spoilers. And the problem is because in the Star wars universe, I don't know what constitutes a plot spoiler anymore. So I'm going to read you the official thing. Okay. Just so I know I'm not spoiling anything.

[Simon Mayo]

Okay.

[Mark Kermode]

Following the fall of the Galactic Empire, during a period where remaining Imperial warlords threatened the galaxy, the New Republic enlists the Mandalorian and his apprentice Grogu to rescue Rota the Hutt in exchange for information from the Hutt clan on a New Republic target. So Pedro Pascal is the Mandalorian Din Djarin, is that correct? Am I pronouncing that correctly? Din Djarin.

[Simon Mayo]

This is the way.

[Mark Kermode]

This is the way. Okay, fine. Although since the character is helmeted, for most of the time, there's actually no knowing whether it's. Whether it's him. And of course, apparently there are other people play the Mandalorian. Brendan Wayne, Latif Crowder, and I imagine in the TV series there's so many. So it's the old Judge Dredd thing because for most of the time, the Mandalorian is wearing a helmet. And there's a whole thing about the Mandalorian taking his helmet off, which is absolutely not done. Although in obviously in the Sylvester Stallone Judge Dredd movie, they just took the helmet off. Jeremy Allen White is in inverted commas. Rota the Hutt, who is son of Jabba the Hutt. Whenever I say that, I always think of the Mel Brooks Spaceballs joke. Pizza the Hutt, who Favreau has compared Rota the Hutt to Adonis Creed, a fighter living in the shadow of his father. And then, of course, Grogu, who is a puppet. A decision that I have to say pays infinite dividends because there is nothing that looks or lasts as well on screen as a puppet. Here is a clip. I have to warn you, it's an audio clip. It's a mainly visual thing, but there you go. It's Star Wars.

[Simon Mayo]

I need you to go to the control panel.

[Mark Kermode]

Remember the buttons I told you never to touch? I'm gonna need you to touch Them look for the ignition relay cutoff. It's next to the fuel differential readout, which is between the pump compression gauge

[Simon Mayo]

and the primary reserve. No, don't touch the missile battery switch. That's why there's a safety guard on it. Do you see the fuel readout display?

[Mark Kermode]

Remember I showed you that one?

[Simon Mayo]

It's on the other side of the manual control surface calibration. I don't think he knows what he's

[Mark Kermode]

doing, which of course, he doesn't. So in. In that clip, which if you were listening and you're not seeing, essentially Grogu is getting to the control panel, lifting up all the things he shouldn't lift, and firing missiles rather than making the. Making the other thing work. So also in the cast, you have Sigourney Weaver, and he's very much an. And Sigourney Weaver role as the colonel of the New Republic, who basically sends the Mandalorian off on this mission to go and get Road to the Hutt. There is also a character who is played or voiced or however you want to put it, by Martin Scorsese. And so it's, you know, and it's a. It's. It's a very Martin Scorsese part. And there are a couple of on screen cameos. There is one. There was one on screen cameo that people in the know laughed at. And I didn't know who it was. And I said to a colleague afterwards, who was that? And they said, oh, that is Dave Filoni, who I didn't recognize because I'm not as deeply immersed in this as some are. So the first thing to say is, obviously, I am not as deeply immersed in this as some people are. You've been watching the series and I haven't. So that, of course, it's important. What I can tell you is this. If Return of the Jedi was, as they said in Clerks, Muppets in space, then this quite often looks like Michael Benteen's potty time in space. And I say that as somebody who liked Michael Benteen's potty time.

[Simon Mayo]

So that's a compliment.

[Mark Kermode]

Yes. It sounds like it isn't, but actually it is. Because you remember Michael Benteen's potty time, right? Yes. And for those not old enough to remember, essentially, Michael Benteen would have these kind of these little worlds made out, and then stuff would happen. It was almost like a kind of upmarket fleece circus, and things would blow up and things would explode and things would run around. It was very sort of slapstick physical humor. And I'VE got a real affection for that, and I've got a real affection for that kind of filmmaking over complex cg. I mean, you were talking about Herzog earlier on. Herzog famously called the makers of the TV series Cowards when they considered replacing the puppet in Inverted Baby Yoda with cg because he said the puppet was a phenomenal technical achievement. Heartbreakingly beautiful. It made you cry when you saw it. And it now become this whole thing about, you know, know, about Herzog's immense attachment to the puppet and the puppet. Grogu is definitely the best thing about this latest movie. Alongside, as I said, there's. There's. There's a sort of team of miniature mechanics who are brought in to upgrade a spaceship when the Mandalorian needs to be moving faster. And they are very, very much like something that came out of Michael Benteen's Potty Time, which again, sounds like a criticism, but isn't. As for the rest of it, there are a lot of CG monster fights, sometimes in performance rings, sometimes in watery pits, always without much regard for the laws of physics. There are some X Wing dogfights which are somehow far zippier than the originals and yet honestly less impressive than the original movies. There's a bunch of. I mean, the plot isn't very complicated, but there is a bunch of baggy plot exposition that's basically sort of rolled out like instructions to a video game. You know, go to this place and do this. Go to this other place and do this other thing in each individual segment. It's, you know, here is the goal, here is the aim, here is the thing you have to get and then bring this other thing back. I saw it in IMAX on Monday night because the. That's when they did the press screening at the BFI iMax, which is the biggest screen in. I think it's the biggest screen in Europe. So I saw it in the biggest format possible and some of it looked impressive. Notably the. The big walky machine things. If they sort of fall over and crash in slow motion, you get a sense of huge, big things crashing. Although honestly, I always got that from. From Thunderbirds, which I always thought did big machines falling over really, really well. It's. There's a sort of post Transformers vibe to that stuff. Although of course with the. With the added bonus of not being intercut with like upskirt shirts of mega shots of Megan Fox, which was always the thing that made Transformers so intolerable, was it was essentially this kids movie with this really leering sensibility. You haven't got any of that here. What you have got is a sort of innocence. So, look, it's far better than Transformers, although that, of course, is setting the bar very low. But honestly, it does feel. And this is. Even to somebody who's not been watching the series, it feels like an expanded TV series episode, which is kind of what it is, because apparently Favreau and Filoni were working on a new series, and then that didn't happen because production was delayed by stuff in Hollywood. And then they kind of re evaluated it and thought, oh, well, actually, what we'll do is we'll turn it into a Mandalorian film. I think it was a fourth season. I think there might be three seasons. So I'm not. Yeah, it could be, but I'm not sure. But the point is, even though I'm not invested in the series in that way, this still felt like, okay, this is basically the biggest TV episode or a couple of TV episodes, you know, locked together. There was a UFO film which was. I think it was the pilot and then an episode strapped on the end of it. And it kind of felt a bit like that. I mean, I was never emotionally invested, which I have been in some of the sequels. It's not that I've got a complete emotional investment blank on Star Wars. I haven't. Some of the sequels I have been emotionally invested in. So I didn't mind it. I didn't hate it. I liked bits of it, particularly the puppet. And it's two days after I saw it, and I've almost already forgotten absolutely everything about it, which seems like an underperformance for a film that costs this much money. It is honestly the very definition of me, so. So it's just strange to see a movie that big. All the things that are good about it are small. I think that's the weird thing. All the things that are good about it are small, but it's very, very big. And it felt very baggy. And it did feel like somebody's taken your television and put it on the biggest screen possible and gone. All right, let's call it a movie.

[Simon Mayo]

Child 1 has a Mandalorian helmet tattoo. So.

[Mark Kermode]

Wow. Yeah. I thought you were gonna say Child 1 has a Mandalorian helmet.

[Simon Mayo]

No, we might. He may well have one, but he's certainly got a Mandalorian helmet tattoo.

[Mark Kermode]

Okay, well, maybe. Would you ask Child one to go see the film and let me know what he thinks for next week?

[Simon Mayo]

He might have childcare issues on that one, but I will definitely suggest that he goes and we'll, I'll get his

[Mark Kermode]

review for us because as I, I can't stress this enough, it is obviously different. If you're a fan who is invested in this particular world, then that will make a difference. And I want to be really clear, I am not that. But even as somebody who isn't that, it did feel like a big TV episode.

[Simon Mayo]

Correspondenceoben.com if you are a fan and you do actually go and see it. So let's do a what's on section here. You can send your videos. This is kind of movie related, movie adjacent. You know how it goes. Correspondenceodemo.com first of all, we have Lucy Harvey, who was the director of of Alien on Stage, the documentary that Mark

[Mark Kermode]

reviewed, which I loved, absolutely loved that film. Dave Mitchell gave everything to Alien on Stage. He is the glue that held it all together.

[Simon Mayo]

Let's support him now and give him what he needs because since March he's been hospitalized with Guillain Barr syndrome, he's in a wheelchair and he's in constant pain. His partner Lydia says that creating this fundraiser means more to them than we know. So the timing is crucial as his sick pay runs out in August and the recovery, recovery process is slow.

[Mark Kermode]

So please donate today, share this everywhere

[Simon Mayo]

and let's show Dave that we love him. Okay, we've thank you very much for that, Lucy. We put a donation link in the show notes if you want to have more information on that. Here is Dr. Gavin Lee, artistic director of Secret Shakespeare.

[Leo Woodall]

Secret Shakespeare is Secret Actors in Secret Spaces this June at Reading Abbey ruins

[Simon Mayo]

from the 3rd to the 20th.

[Leo Woodall]

The actors who are dressed just like the audience could be anyone at any time from anywhere.

[Simon Mayo]

Tickets are [e-mail] thank you, Dr. Gavin. Sounds intriguing.

[Mark Kermode]

Yeah.

[Simon Mayo]

And we'll put a link to all of these in our show notes. Send in your videos please to correspondence.com, that's it for this week. This has been a Sony Music Entertainment production. This week's team, Jen, Eric, Josh, Heather and Dom the redactor Summer Paul. Not that he's interested this week because he's in the pub. And if you're not following the pod already, please do so. Wherever you get your podcast, come and join us on Patreon. Mark, what is your film of the week?

[Mark Kermode]

Well, take a wild guess from the ones that I've reviewed what you think it might be. Passenger, I would say absolutely on the money.

[Simon Mayo]

We'll be back next week with lots of fabulous stuff. I can't remember. I'm going to bestow. I'm sure it'd be good, you know, I just have faith. A year's Ultra membership to our correspondent of the Week. I'll give it to Richie, the science teacher guy who had the Muppet game. So Richie will be in touch. You are an ultra for a year, whether you like it or not. And if you'd like a little bit more, after take one, head over to take two.

[Mark Kermode]

Would you like me to. Would you like me to tell you what we're reviewing on next week's show? Because I've actually got it written down.

[Simon Mayo]

Okay, go ahead.

[Mark Kermode]

Tuna power ballad, Back Rooms, My Mother's Wedding, and Fairyland.

[Simon Mayo]

That's all to come next week. Some more current stuff on take two. Thank you very much indeed for listening. Ear Mark, don't you find public WI fi a waste of time when you're traveling?

[Mark Kermode]

Is that why I never hear from you when you're off on your scandi jollies?

[Simon Mayo]

Well, I'm certainly not shelling out for a roaming data package just to call you. I've got Danish pastries to be buying.

[Mark Kermode]

Well, I wouldn't be bothering with public WI fi. Haven't you downloaded the Saily ESIM app I keep telling you about? All you have to do is get the app and choose one of Saily's affordable ESIM plans in over 200 destinations. Install the ESIM. It'll be activated instantly on arrival. It significantly reduces and even eliminates roaming fees. No more queuing at dodgy airport kiosks for a local SIM card.

[Simon Mayo]

Well, that all sounds very easy, but surely I'll still have issues with privacy.

[Mark Kermode]

Well, actually, because Saily is brought to you by the creators of NordVPN, who know about this sort of thing, you can activate Saily's security features and browse more confidently, change your virtual location, block malicious ads, and stay safer with web protection.

[Simon Mayo]

Okay, all right, I'm sold, provided I can conveniently get 15% off.

[Mark Kermode]

Well, you can conveniently get an exclusive 15% discount on saily data plans. Use the code take at checkout, download the Saily app or go to saily.com

[Simon Mayo]

show QR code on screen.

[Mark Kermode]

During Memorial Day at Lowe's Shop Household

[Simon Mayo]

must haves for less.

[Mark Kermode]

Save $80 on a Char Broil Performance Series 4 burner grill to chef up something special. Plus get up to 45% off some select major appliances to keep things fresh. Our best lineup is here at Lowe's. Lowe's. We help you save valid through 527 while supplies last. Selection varies by location. See lowe's.com for details. Visit your nearby Lowe's.