Loading summary
Transcript116 lines
- [00:00]
Simon Poole
Hey, Mark, you know I'm really massive techie, right?
- [00:04]
Mark Kermode
No.
- [00:04]
Simon Poole
If you saw me at my local coffee shop in Showbiz North London, you'd probably mistake me for Neo from the Matrix. Without the illegal hacking or sunglasses indoors, obviously.
- [00:14]
Mark Kermode
What are you talking about? You're having some sort of breakdown. Do you actually even own a computer?
- [00:19]
Simon Poole
What I'm talking about, I'm on it now. Talking to you is the transformation my web browsing has been through. Now that I've got NORDVPN on all my devices, I use NORDVPN to keep my online activity safe with encryption, threat protection and dark web alerts to guard against hackers and to secure public WI fi.
- [00:41]
Mark Kermode
Well, welcome to the future, Simon. I've been doing that for ages. And with one click, NORDVPN can change your device's virtual location so you can access all the things you need when you're abroad.
- [00:50]
Simon Poole
Unwrap a huge discount on NORDVPN by heading to nordvpn.com discord take with our link.
- [00:57]
Mark Kermode
You'll get an extra four months free on the two year plan. And it's risk free with Nord's 30 day money back guarantee. Check the link in the description.
- [01:16]
Kermode's Co-host (possibly a producer or another film critic)
That's nice Bass, don't you think? On that, on that little clip,
- [01:21]
Mark Kermode
It's a graphic. I think the team have upped their game all round, haven't they?
- [01:27]
Kermode's Co-host (possibly a producer or another film critic)
So welcome. This is our Oscars Schmoskers special. I'm still in Showbiz North London. Mark is actually in Hollywood at the Plaza Grand Continental. And later when this video is on Patreon, you'll be able to see his incredible suite which really, really does look palatial. How did he swing this upgrade?
- [01:50]
Mark Kermode
Yeah. Okay, so just to be absolutely clear, I am in the Travelodge Covent Garden, but the Travelodge Drury Lane as it happens up on the. Yeah, yeah. Very, very showbiz. Because this is what happens. Because when the Oscars happen, there's some people, Jetta, in fact, you and I, in a past incarnation, we actually did jet over to Los Angeles to, to stay in Peter Bo's palace of Earthly Delights and cover the Oscars from there. Yes, but now, of course, as we've discovered, the very best view of the Oscars is from. From the ninth floor of the Travelodge on Drury Lane. So yeah, that's where, that's. That's where I am now. Broadcasting Glamorous from the glamorous Travelodge using the in house WI Fi. But it comes and goes a little Bit, but yeah, so that's, that's, that's where I am. No glamour at all for me.
- [02:40]
Kermode's Co-host (possibly a producer or another film critic)
All right, okay, so we'll get into the detail in a bit. But just, you're the guy who stayed up and watched it all. What did you think of the show?
- [02:51]
Mark Kermode
Well, generally I thought that most of the, most of the awards fell the way that we thought they were going to. There were one or two surprises and we'll come to them. One or two pleasant surprises. That, that's good. The show itself, I mean, it started UK time, started at 11 o', clock, finished somewhere between 2:30 and 3 o'. Clock. I have to say it felt, it felt like a long show. I mean, this may be to do with age, this may be to do with the fact that it's just, you know, you want things to move on because you would actually like to get a couple of hours sleep before, before talking about it the next morning. I suppose always the big question is whether or not you think the host did, you know, a bang up job. And there is always a, there is always a thing with awards ceremonies which is, you know, have you, have you relaxed into the fact that the host is going to be funny and the host has got all the right gags. The host has got the, and it was Conan o' Brien who obviously he's done it before and a talented broadcaster. I thought that there were so many jokes that just landed like wet fish. Now this may be to do with watching it on the television and whether in the room it was kind of different, but there was an awful lot actually throughout the evening there was an awful lot of kind of very contrived gags that just didn't land. And at one point, well, you know, at one point Billy Crystal came on and, and then whenever Billy Crystal comes on, you think, oh yeah, I remember that Billy Crystal was exactly how you host an Oscar. I mean, it was, it wasn't terrible. Started off the beginning of it, there was a sort of extended gag about weapons in which Conan o' Brien is at the makeup table and he's had his makeup done and he looks like Amy Madigan. And then he runs through a series of scenes from the, from the major contenders. And that's kind of one of those, it must have seemed very, very funny. Old on paper practically. It's just a bit like, yeah, okay, fine, let's just get on with it. And the other thing that is, that's always strange with those things is that there are, there are quite a lot of elaborately set up gags that take quite a lot of time. And then when they get to the winner's speeches, winners get cut off, you know, because the orchestra start playing and play them off almost immediately. So it was, I. It's not the best hosting I've seen and it certainly isn't the funniest. And there was, I certainly got the impression that it wasn't just me who thought that a lot of the gags weren't landing.
- [05:10]
Kermode's Co-host (possibly a producer or another film critic)
But you know, that's interesting because in the, in its clipped up version, which I was picking up with from 5 o', clock, he was, you know, he was funny and I mean, I'm a big fan anyway. But you know the joke about no British actors because. But at least we arrest our pedophiles. You know, all of that seemed to land, seemed to land very well.
- [05:35]
Mark Kermode
I'm sure there were, if you watch it in the clipped up form, individual zingers. I have to tell you that in real time, it didn't feel like that.
- [05:44]
Kermode's Co-host (possibly a producer or another film critic)
Okay, so we'll go through the big moments, the big talking points in just a moment.
- [05:53]
Simon Poole
This episode is brought to you by mubi, the global film company that champions great cinema. From iconic directors to emerging auteurs, there's always something new to discover. With Mubi. Each and every film is hand selected so you can explore the best of cinema.
- [06:09]
Mark Kermode
Yes. And new to MUBI in the UK this March is the brilliant no Other choice from Park Chan Wook. If you're a regular listener of the show, you will have heard me reviewing the film and raving about it. Actually kind of struggling to describe it because it's a black comedy, it's a thriller, it's a social satire, it's about a man whose life starts to fall apart and he takes unreasonable measures to correct things. I was absolutely fascinated by it. I thought it was a terrific film. And as I said, it's coming to MUBI in the UK from March 13th.
- [06:36]
Simon Poole
You can try MUBI free for 30 days at mubi.comkermodinmayo that's m u b I.comkermodomayo for a whole month of great cinema for free.
- [06:48]
Mark Kermode
There really is no other choice.
- [06:57]
Kermode's Co-host (possibly a producer or another film critic)
Okay, so just to be clear. So this podcast has landed, which is why you're listening to it. The Envision, the glory of our Envision version will be on Patreon just a little bit later. Okay, so let's go through some of the big moments from, from last night. Best Picture, that kind of. Yes.
- [07:17]
Mark Kermode
Yeah. Well, do you want to Lead me through what you want me to lead you through.
- [07:22]
Kermode's Co-host (possibly a producer or another film critic)
Okay. So one battle after another is the movie as we thought that would.
- [07:28]
Mark Kermode
Yeah.
- [07:29]
Kermode's Co-host (possibly a producer or another film critic)
Dominate the night. Got six Oscars. Best picture director for Paul Thomas Anderson. Supporting actor Sean Penn Adapted screenplay, editing and the first ever casting Oscar. Paul Thomas Anderson used his speech to apologize to his kids for their housekeeping mess that we've left. That's right. In this world. He was asked backstage about how wombat laughter reflects where we are or where we're going in society.
- [07:57]
Paul Thomas Anderson
I thought we were supposed to be partying. I think that our film obviously. Our film obviously has a certain amount of parallels to what's happening in the news every day. So it obviously reflects what's happening in the world in terms of where it's going. I don't know. But I know that the end of our movie is our hero, Willow, heading off to continue to fight against evil forces. And I think, like I said in my speech, bring at least common sense and decency back into fashion.
- [08:41]
Kermode's Co-host (possibly a producer or another film critic)
Well, what did you think of what Paul Thomas Anderson said and how it was all received, Mark?
- [08:47]
Mark Kermode
Well, obviously he's been receiving awards around the world and doing very, very good acceptance speeches every time. They've been kind of, you know, humble and interesting and, you know, and he said. He said good things, but he said them lightly. And I think that message about, you know, apologizing for the mess that this generation made of the world but saying that the future lies with the next generation was actually really moving. I mean, he does genuinely seem to be. To be thrilled at how well one battle after another is done. And for those of us who are Paul Thomas Anderson fans, we know this is a very, very long wait. Lots and lots of Oscar nominations and then, you know, and then it takes this long for him. For him actually to finally win. I thought it was great. I mean, the fact that he won adapted screenplay and director and then the film won best Picture. That was. That was the full sweep. Also, of course, Sean Penn won best supporting actor. Sean Penn wasn't in the room. And it was funny because Kieran Culkin said e he couldn't be here or because he didn't want to be.
- [09:49]
Kermode's Co-host (possibly a producer or another film critic)
Yeah. And that. Is that his third Oscar?
- [09:52]
Mark Kermode
I think Sean Penn's third Oscar or I have absolute. I have absolutely no idea whether or not that's Sean Penn's third Oscar. It's eight o' clock in the morning and I've had two and a half hours sleep. I can tell you that it was Paul Thomas Anderson's first Second, you know, that was. And after all this time, it was really lovely to finally see that happen. We. We did say in the, in all the, the stuff that we talked about beforehand it was pretty much a deadlock that it was going to win Best Picture. As, you know, obviously, Sinners had the most nominations. Actually, Sinners had a very, very good night, particularly with Michael B. Jordan winning for Best Actor, which we'll talk about in a minute. But one battle after another did exactly what everyone thought it was going to do. And it's. And I think it's. I think it's great. And I'm just really pleased for Paul Thomas Anson, personally. I think it would have been lovely if Johnny Greenwood had won for Best Score. Not because of. Because I don't think that Ludwig Gorison score for Sinners isn't brilliant. It is. It's just a shame that those two scores were out in the same year. Johnny Greenwood wasn't at the Oscars. He wasn't in America, because I think everybody kind of thought it was a deadlock in beforehand.
- [10:56]
Kermode's Co-host (possibly a producer or another film critic)
I mean, it's worth saying. I mean, you could go back and listen to a conversation with Paul Thomas Anderson when the movie came out. This is. This. And also Sinners is not what you would have traditionally said was Oscar bait. You know, this is a. This movie is out there. It starts with, you know, radical left, act of terror, I suppose, whatever you want to call it. You know, this is awkward in many. I mean, it's also hilarious and thrilling and, you know, and wonderful. But this is a Paul Thomas Anderson movie with no compromise.
- [11:32]
Mark Kermode
Yes. And it is brilliant that. That's the thing he is one for. Because there is, there's the, you know, there's the Martin Scorsese factor, which is that Martin Scorsese doesn't win, doesn't win, doesn't win, and then finally wins for the Departed, which, although the Departed is a good film, is not Martin Scorsese's best film. It's kind of the point at which the Oscars think we really should have given him this Oscar before. So here it is. In the case of Paul Thomas Anderson, I think you could make a legitimate argument that one battle after another is his best film. I mean, I still personally have a, you know, great fondness for Punch Drunk Love and Phantom Thread, but I think you could easily argue that one battle after Another is his biggest, his most ambitious, his best, best film, certainly the film in which the most financial risk was taken. And so I think it's great that he won for This, I think it was the right win. And I, you know, I think hooray. Because I've been a huge fan of his work for ages. And as you were saying in that conversation that you had with him, when you were talking about the film, when you describe it, you wouldn't say absolutely no, that is not Oscar bait. It's not Driving Miss Daisy, it's not Crash, not that one. It's not a film that, to use that phrase, you know, the film that wins Best Picture is the film that's on the side of the angels. I mean, in fact, you could, you could easily have imagined the world in which Hamnet would have been a more likely Best Picture winner, because that's a much more traditional best picture winner than something like one battle after another.
- [12:55]
Kermode's Co-host (possibly a producer or another film critic)
So you've mentioned Michael B. Jordan and Sinners. Four Oscars, Best Actor, Michael B. Jordan, Best Original Screenplay, Original score and cinematography. And Michael Jordan becomes the sixth black best actor winner. He gave tribute to past winners. I stand here, he said, because of the people who came before me. Cinematographer Autumn Gerald Alcapore became the first female and first winner of. Of the category. Ryan Coogler, screenwriter, becomes the only. The second black winner of Best Original Screenplay. Michael was asked backstage was what the award meant to him and others coming up.
- [13:32]
Michael B. Jordan
It feels timely. You know, I feel like, like I said before, I'm. I'm here because of the people that came before me. You know, Sidney and Denzel and, you know, Halle Berry and Forrest and, you know, all those actors who graced the stage and not looking for awards and not looking for acknowledgement. They're artists. They want to do the work, you know, and that's something I've always focused on, was trying to do the work. My father always told me, don't expect anything to be handed to you. You know, you do the work, you know, and everything else is going to figure itself out. And, you know, there is a, There is a selfishness in understanding that in your craft, in your industry, this is a pinnacle. And this is, this is what, you know, our industry standard. This is what we put value on in a big way. That, that competitiveness, you do want that, you know, but at the same time, there's a, you know, what's for you is for you, and you can't take anybody's blessings away from anybody else. So I'm just, like, walking my path, man, and just trying to be locked in. So I would encourage other actors and other, you know, artists, no matter what their, you know, their, Their medium is, is to try to keep that in mind and be honest and truthful and just, you know, do. Do, you know, dream big, man.
- [14:51]
Kermode's Co-host (possibly a producer or another film critic)
They were good words. And everyone will be cheering, I think, because Sinners was such a sort of a glorious film.
- [14:58]
Mark Kermode
It was. And also. So the interesting thing about Michael B. Jordan winning best Actor to two things. Firstly, the award was presented by Adrien Brody because this is the way that Oscar things work. Now, you remember last year, Adrien Brody did the longest, most rambling, most incredibly insufferable acceptance speech. There was the whole thing about taking out the gun and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So the gag this time is that he comes on to present best actor and he makes a joke about the fact that his speech before, you know, chewing gum. And they start as. As he's rambling, they start. The orchestra starts to play and they start to think they might run down. So there's a gag at the beginning accepting the fact that Adrien Brody did the most boring Oscar acceptance speech that anyone has ever seen. Then, of course, the way in which all the bookies had fallen for pretty much throughout the major awards season was that this was Timothee Chalamet's Oscar. And in fact, as far as the. The Oscar odds were concerned, it wasn't until very close to the ceremony that Michael B. Jordan tipped into the lead. When I was on the train up from. From Cornwall yesterday, coming up to London, I sent you and Simon Poole a message saying, I'm looking at the odds. And actually it looks like Michael B. Jordan has nudged into the lead. And of course, actually, the way that it is, if you are interested in this stuff, the way in which the odds checkers tend to be increasingly accurate is really interesting. It was still something of a surprise when it actually happened because the certainty of Timothee Chalamet being the winner had been. He'd been bookie's favorite for such a long time. They cut very, very quickly to Michael B. Jordan. I think Timothee Chalamet looked like he smiled. And I think that was, you know, because. Because it was such a popular win. Michael B. Jordan was such a popular win. Now, exactly how the tipping went from Timothy Shalam to Michael B. Jordan is anybody's guess because there's stuff about when the voting closes and, you know, there were. There were several jokes about Timothy Chalamet and ballet and opera and. Because obviously he.
- [17:07]
Kermode's Co-host (possibly a producer or another film critic)
That was funny. That was funny.
- [17:08]
Mark Kermode
Yeah, there was. So there was. There was a lot of that going on. But honestly, I don't think there was anybody in the room who thought it was the wrong choice. It was a really, really popular win. And it was great as well, because one battle after another and sinners going head to head. And as you said, neither of them look like what you consider to be Oscar bait. The fact that they both came away with really significant awards is terrific. They, you know, I think they both came out of it as. As very, very successful and, you know, so, yeah, that was. It was the one surprise of the evening in inverted commas. Although it had been predicted, as I said, in the very last run up he had taken. As I said, I did text you in advance and said, I'm just checking this, and this is actually what it looks like now. But even I, when it actually happened, went, oh, okay, great.
- [17:56]
Kermode's Co-host (possibly a producer or another film critic)
I wonder if he wanted it too much.
- [17:59]
Mark Kermode
Timothy Chalamet.
- [18:00]
Kermode's Co-host (possibly a producer or another film critic)
Yeah, I just. I saw a comment this morning that the more voters saw off Timothy. This sounds very harsh. The more voters saw, as in, you know, the Oscar voters sort of Timothy Chalamet, the less they wanted him to win it.
- [18:15]
Mark Kermode
Well, look, firstly, let's. Let's establish once again, as we always do, all awards are nonsense and all awards are capricious, and all awards are voted for by people making decisions for reasons which. Which. Which are multifarious and may not make any sense at all. So one cannot take them too seriously. I don't know whether anything that Timothee Chalamet did counted against him. And also, of course, in the case of Michael B. Jordan, it might just be that Michael B. Jordan was the person they liked better. You know, it might just be that they thought his performance was better than Timothee Chalamet. Again, it's like apples and oranges. You never really can compare these things. I don't know. I thought he conducted himself fine. I mean, the thing about the ballet and the opera thing, it had blown up so much and there were jokes about it in.
- [19:08]
Kermode's Co-host (possibly a producer or another film critic)
It's the kind of thing that nobody's going to forget. If you make a ridiculous attack on opera and ballet, then they're going to come and get you. In fact, I saw. I saw a ballet company who were offering discounted tickets. If you use the code Chalamet NE. But you got like 50% off your tickets. So he's gonna regret that for a long time.
- [19:29]
Mark Kermode
He is. Although. Although, it's hard to imagine that the opera and ballet wedge was the thing that shifted the Oscar decision.
- [19:39]
Kermode's Co-host (possibly a producer or another film critic)
It's a very gentle community. So let's talk about Jessie Buckley. As we've said for weeks and weeks, and weeks, the most obvious winner winning best actress for Hamnet, the first Irish winner in this category. She dedicated her award to quotes the beautiful chaos of. Of a mother's heart. And here's a little clip from an Irish radio interview just talking about how special the whole day was.
- [20:02]
Jessie Buckley
It feels like some kind of crazy alchemy that all of these things are colliding on a day like today. My daughter got her first tooth this week. I woke up with her lying on my chest snuggling me. And I feel like, what a gift to get to, you know, explore motherhood through this incredible mother that Agnes is and was, and then to become one myself and then to receive this recognition of the incredible role mothers play in our world on this day is something I will never, ever forget.
- [20:43]
Kermode's Co-host (possibly a producer or another film critic)
So, you know, by popular acclaim, a brilliant actor who can, you know, who, if she's in anything, you're going to go, oh, okay, I'm going to make sure I watch it. It was a great performance, and everyone would have just assumed that she. That she was going to win, but it's still great to hear her speak.
- [21:00]
Mark Kermode
It is. I did an on stage with her a couple of months ago now, and she was talking about the role. Talking about very enthusiastically. I've interviewed her on stage a few times and she's, you know, she's a great interview and her performance in Hamlet is terrific. And as we all said, it had been the favorite for quite a long time. At the end of the Q and A, I said, you know, questions from the audience, and the first question was somebody put their hand up and said, have you written your Oscar speech? But the thing is, there is always that weird thing about you. Oh, are we jinxing things now? Because it's so obvious that this is going to win? That maybe. But no, she did. She won. It was a very, very popular win. As you said. She did that thing about the. The beautiful chaos of her mother's heart, which I thought was. Was really lovely. She, she. She did seem genuinely overwhelmed, which is quite nice because it's always quite good to see people, you know, being absolutely properly thrilled. And it is right that that is the thing that Hamnet won for, because I do think that she is the strongest part of that film. I mean, I have reservations about the film itself. Although, as we were saying before, and as you had noted before, Hamnet is a much more obvious Oscar contender film than Sinners or One Battle.
- [22:16]
Kermode's Co-host (possibly a producer or another film critic)
I'm not sure Weapons is an obvious Oscar winner either. And I did, I didn't. I Mean, it's a great performance. I didn't have Aunt Gladys down that
- [22:24]
Mark Kermode
was, has a winner.
- [22:25]
Kermode's Co-host (possibly a producer or another film critic)
But Amy Madigan won best supporting actress for Weapons. Forty years after her last nomination, which is a record gap. No one's had to wait longer. And the first time in years a sole nominee from their film wins in this category. So. And it's a, it's a terrifying old, in a way, old fashioned baddie without redemption, stealing the lives of children, you know, sucking out their life source. And she is a hideous monster.
- [22:55]
Mark Kermode
Well, that was great because it happened very, very early on. As I said, the way that the thing started was there was this extended Conan o' Brien sketch with Conan o' Brien effectively dressed as that character running through the different films. And then Conan o' Brien came on stage and then did some stuff. And then there was a weird thing about him. You know, what would happen if he won an award and then him getting crowned king or pope and then a mountain set and then ending up with a song which didn't work. And the whole thing was really kind of like, oh yeah, of course, this is, this is what Oscars is like, isn't it? Just some incredibly contrived gag and then it doesn't work. And then Amy Madigan won and it was like, wow, this is great. And she, she got on stage and it was really fabulous and she had an absolutely sort of brilliant laugh. And as you know, she was that, I mean, that was actually one of the highlights of the evening for me because I think Weapons is one of the best films of the year. I thought it was really, really remarkable. I've thought about it so much since we've seen it. We've had so much correspondence about it, people interpreting what it's about, what, you know, what, what the film means, what's going on in it. And her performance is terrific. So that was, that was definitely one of the highlights was her winning. And that category was always going to be the hardest category to call. Best supporting Actress was the one that everyone said it's all over the shop. If you were looking at it in terms of the odds, there was absolutely no certainty at all. So I think you were genuinely in a situation there in which all the nominees might have thought it might have been them. And that's actually quite exciting. Cause that doesn't happen very often in Oscar awards.
- [24:34]
Kermode's Co-host (possibly a producer or another film critic)
Does that mean that it's been a good Oscars year for horror? If sinners get four, Frankenstein got three, Weapons gets one. That's pretty good.
- [24:46]
Mark Kermode
Yeah, there's been a Lot of discussion about this. There's a kind of old canard which is that Oscars don't go to horror films. And when they do, they go to horror films that don't look like horror films. So famous, obviously. Silence of the Lambs winning Best Picture. And there's a. Oh, is that the first time a horror film has won Best Picture? Well, it's not a horror film. It's a psychological thriller. As I said, there used to be a column in the back of Fangoria magazine called It's Not a Horror Film, which was specifically to do with repositioning horror films as something else. Exorcist, of course, back in 19, was nominated 73, but the Oscars were in 74, got 10 nominations, of which it only ended up winning two. And there's a, there's a lot that can be said about what happened with that, but it is, it's not. I mean, I, I saw a couple of people talking about, you know, why it was horror now being taken seriously. And they said people said a few foolish things like, well, horror movies now are deep and horror movies are now intelligent. And, you know, now we've got elevated horror. And it was just like, shut up. Horror movies have always been all of those things. It's the.
- [25:52]
Kermode's Co-host (possibly a producer or another film critic)
Really, that's.
- [25:53]
Mark Kermode
Let's not have that discussion. It is interesting that in the case of Sinners, in the case of Frankenstein, those, those movies are, that they, they are gothic and they have horror elements. And certainly as somebody who is a horror fan, like they. Because it kind of bothers me when people pretend that horror films aren't horror films, but they are, they are definitely films that are leaning into a slightly different genre of horror. The thing with weapons is that weapons is a horror film. It is a full on horror film and it was just great to see Amy Madigan win there. But I don't know. It is definitely the case that over the years horror has not been well served by the Oscars. And it is also the case that there have been Oscar contenders before that have been horror films that have been very deep. It just bothered me because there was a couple of comments I saw online about, yeah, now we're in the age of elevated horror and now they can all win Oscars. We, you know, I'm sorry, the Exorcist was nominated for 10 Oscars, 10 Oscars in 1973. I don't think elevated horror is more intelligent than that.
- [27:02]
Kermode's Co-host (possibly a producer or another film critic)
On the documentary. Yes, the first documentary, Mr. Nobody Against Putin. Mr. Putin.
- [27:07]
Simon Poole
Yeah.
- [27:08]
Kermode's Co-host (possibly a producer or another film critic)
David Borenstein, when he is It Borenstein or Borenstein?
- [27:11]
Mark Kermode
I'm not Bornstein. I think.
- [27:12]
Kermode's Co-host (possibly a producer or another film critic)
I think, yeah, Mr. Nobody against Mr. Putin. It was the light he had in his very political speech, obviously, because it's very political film. But he had a phrase, countless acts of complicity, which must have hit home big time because as you look at what's happening in America, the stuff that he was saying was a big warning.
- [27:38]
Mark Kermode
Yeah, well, let me tell you exactly what he said, because this was interesting. There's always the question about how much politics there is ever going to be in an award ceremony and how much is appropriate. Okay, so there was a lot of kind of underlying politics going on throughout the ceremony. I mean, not people sort of making declarative statements, but there was stuff going on. In the case of the best documentary category that was presented by Jimmy Kimmel. Now, obviously, Jimmy Kimmel has become something of a thorn in mango, Mussolini side, as have a number of late night talk show hosts against whom he spends an inordinate amount of his time railing. So Kimmel came on to present the best documentary and he said, you know, there are documentaries in which people risk their lives to, to lay bare the truth. And there are also documentaries in people which people walk around the White House trying on shoes, which was the, the first point, because this is a reference to the Melania dog. He also said, as you know, there are some countries where leaders don't support free speech that I'm not at liberty to say, which, let's just say North Korea and cbs. So that was kind of the sort of the setup for the documentary. And if this is going to happen anywhere, it's going to happen in documentary, of course, although it was Javier Bardem who went presenting the thing, said, you know, no to war and free Palestine. So then Misinobi against Putin wins. And as you quite rightly said, the speech was very pointed. What he said was this. He said, the film is about how you lose your country. You lose it through countless small little acts of complicity, when we act complicit, when a government murders people on the streets of our major cities, when we don't say anything, when oligarchs take over the media and control how we can produce it and consume it. Now, what's interesting about that speech is obviously the documentary is about Russia. It's about Putin. And every single thing that he says in that could be referring to Putin. The reason it's a smart speech is that we all hear what it's also referring to, which as I said, you know, Jimmy Kimmel had kind of flagged up beforehand. And it is absolutely the case that at the moment America is in the middle of a crisis, it's in the middle of a war, and it is being run by a president who is trying to clamp down on the media and control the media in a way that no other president has done. It is impossible to imagine a precursor to, to what's happening at the moment. So of course people are going to make reference to it. But I actually thought that particular speech was, was, as you said, very, very pointed because you can't hear somebody saying that without hearing exactly what it is they're saying.
- [30:23]
Kermode's Co-host (possibly a producer or another film critic)
Yes, because complicity is a word that's been used a lot recently. And when he. I mean, it was just impeccable.
- [30:29]
Mark Kermode
Was it?
- [30:30]
Kermode's Co-host (possibly a producer or another film critic)
What an amazing was. I think, I think people will remember that because obviously it's not the most glamorous, it's not the most glitzy. But in terms of a speech made clearly about his film, but also clearly to the audience, I thought was quite exceptional also on the films from abroad. Norway winning its first ever international feature, Joachim Trier's Sentimental Value. So it did win something.
- [30:56]
Mark Kermode
It did. And it wasn't just something. I mean, that is a big, that is a big win and that was a very, very strong category. And again, it was a. It was a very popular way and it was lovely to see because, I mean, Sentimental Value is a brilliant film. I think it's, I think it's, it's a really, really great movie and it's, it's great that that happened. And of course, in his acceptance speech, Joachim tried James Baldwin. All adults, all adults are responsible for all children and rest, not politicians who don't take this into account. Once again, what you're seeing there is an example of, of somebody making actually I think a point that lands quite well because of the way in which it's, in which it's, it's framed. You know, it's a, it's, it's a thoughtful way of saying something. It doesn't sound like, it doesn't sound like anyone's being hectoring or anything. It is just a really thoughtful thing to say because it relates to the film, but it also relates to the wider political situation.
- [31:55]
Kermode's Co-host (possibly a producer or another film critic)
K Pop Demon Hunters wins best yes Wins Animated feature and original song golden becomes the first K pop song to win an Oscar. Co director Maggie Kang dedicating the award to Korea and Koreans everywhere. And I think. Did I get this right? She also made an apology that it had taken so long to have A movie featuring people that look like them.
- [32:17]
Mark Kermode
Yeah. And it was kind of moving because obviously the funny thing with K Pop Demon Hunters is that it is literally like inhaling bubblegum. I mean, it is. We reviewed it on the show. It is indeed. Those earworm songs, they're like absolute weapons. Great. Played, memorable tunes that you can't get out of your head. But it was also really interesting to see that acceptance speech going. No, this. Also, there's this other thing going on, which is it's to do with representation and it's to do with recognition. And I honestly, I hadn't really thought about that element of it because when I saw K Pop Demon Hunters, it was like I'd stuck my head in the candy floss machine and everything was purple and everything was pink and everything was. Everything was going to rattle around in my head for the whole of the rest of the day. So, yeah, no, that was good. And of course, K Pop Demon Hunters and Sinners both had musical numbers performed at the Oscars. Just those two. Two biggies. And they were both really good. Both really, really well done musical numbers.
- [33:15]
Kermode's Co-host (possibly a producer or another film critic)
I thought on the craft side, we mentioned Frankenstein, which got three for production design, costume and makeup, Avatar Fire and Ash. Visual effects formula. One for F, one for sound. Yeah. And a rare tie in the life. In short, only the seventh in Oscar history. And I think the guy, I can't remember who was presenting it but said, no, no, this is. This is for real. You know, it's not. This isn't a mistake. It's a genuine tie.
- [33:40]
Mark Kermode
Well, the interesting thing was it was presented by Kimonjiani. And when he said, you know, it's a tie, and we all know that there have been very few before, didn't have the figure to hand. But then he made the joke about. So that means that this short film award is going to last twice as long as all the other awards.
- [33:59]
Kermode's Co-host (possibly a producer or another film critic)
Which is.
- [33:59]
Mark Kermode
That is the sort of standard joke, is that the short film awards actually tend to last longer because the short film people end up making very, very long speeches. But there were two. So I. I think it's the first time that I've been watching the Oscars that there was a tie. But, no, there was the. There was the actress. But then that was a. That was way, way back anyway. Yes. So, yes, it was remarkable. And put on Angioni. It was funny. And I. When he. When he opened the envelope, I think he was genuinely surprised, as we all were, because we all think when people open envelopes at Oscars, things you all Think back to Warren Beatty and, you know, and the whole La La Land debacle. But yet, no, it was a tie in that category.
- [34:38]
Kermode's Co-host (possibly a producer or another film critic)
So from a studio point of view, a massive night for Warner Brothers. Eleven total wins, first best picture since Argyo in 2013. And this as that sense that everything is about to change and, you know, the major merger happening and who knows what's gonna be happening in the future, but, you know, they're going out on a high.
- [35:02]
Mark Kermode
Well, so I've said that I didn't think Conan o' Brien's stuff landed particularly well. One of the recurrent jokes that Conan o' Brien was making was about streaming services and about the way in which, you know, all this. This stuff is happening. So he said, for example, oh, yeah, Ted Sarandos is here tonight. It's the first time he's been in a theater.
- [35:23]
Kermode's Co-host (possibly a producer or another film critic)
That was good, you know.
- [35:24]
Mark Kermode
Yeah, that was good. That was. That was a. That was a good time.
- [35:28]
Kermode's Co-host (possibly a producer or another film critic)
Pretending to laugh heartily, pretending to yuck it up.
- [35:32]
Mark Kermode
And then he went, yeah, he said he did the thing about, oh, wow, this is. It's all these people sitting in the same room having a good time. And that there was also a sort of running theme that he did a joke about. Next year the Oscars are going to be on YouTube, he said, because it was not going to make any difference. And then they cut to an advert, and then it came back to him, and then he went, yeah, anyway, as I was saying, it's not going to make a difference. And then they cut to an advert. So there were. There were points during. During his stuff that were recurrent points that were to do with the way in which all this stuff is changing, the way in which streaming services are taking over. So that was a subject in the room. Whether or not we are at some kind of terminal tipping point remains to be seen. But I think that when you have movies like I'm sorry to keep. I feel like I'm repeating myself. But, like, one battle after another, like sinners, like sentimental value, doing. Doing as well as they did. It does make you think that. I mean, you and I both said this. One battle after another was a. Was a film to see in the cinema, wasn't it? It was a film. You needed to see it on the big screen and enjoy it as a full cinematic experience. And I think the same is. Is true of sinners. And I think that there was a celebration of being in theaters, definitely.
- [36:49]
Kermode's Co-host (possibly a producer or another film critic)
The tributes are always interesting. We had Billy Crystal. I mean, I am Always absolutely in awe of Billy Crystal. I mean, he came on the show a while back and to talk, you know, he was. He had a serious role to talk about. I love talking to him. But he must have been. He must have been nervous, he must have been tense because he and Rob Reiner were such close friends. But he gave a heartfelt tribute, which I thought was amazing. Rachel McAdams remembered Katherine O' Hara and Diane Keaton and then Barbra Streisand. I didn't see any of this. What happened with her Robert Redford tribute. Okay, so.
- [37:31]
Mark Kermode
Well, just to repeat what you've just said about Billy Crystal and Rob Reiner and Michelle Singer Reiner tribute was incredibly moving. And he ended up saying, you know, what fun we had storming the castle and got a standing ovation. And again, let us remember that the passing of Rob Reiner is significant as well, because Mango Mussolini made such a disgusting comment about it, an absolutely disgraceful comment that no person in a position of authority should ever be able to make and then carry on holding up their head in public. I mean, an obscene. An obscene comment. So it was lovely to see the whole audience, you know, embracing the enormous talent of Rob Reiner and everyone saying what a great guy he was, what a solid, decent. To use that word again, that Paul Thomas Anderson used, the decency. You know, I always think of the, you know, the famous political heckle. Have you no decency? Have you no shame? And anyway, so that was great. And then, yes, as you said, I mean, Diane Keaton stuff is always gonna. Because, you know, I grew up watching Diane Keaton films. Then we get to Barbra Streisand talking about Robert Redford, and she does this sort of long. Well, it's Barbara Streisand. She can talk for as long as she wants. This thing about the fact that Robert Redford, you always referred to her as Babs, okay? And she said, I'm not a Babs. Look at me. Do I look like a Babs? Which is funny because, of course, if you're a Barbra Streisand fan, we refer to her as Babs. So she talks about that. And then she talked about Redford having real decency and backbone. And she talked about Sundance, and she talked about the fact that when they were first talking about the way we were, he was talking about the role and the moral character, or lack of it, of the person he was playing. You and I had the privilege of interviewing Robert Redford on stage. I mean, he was a mensch. I'd interviewed him A couple of times before talking about his films as a director. I mean, he was a really, really decent person. And then at the end, as she's standing on stage, she starts singing the Way We Were. Now, there are very few people who could get away with doing this, honestly. Barbra Streisand is one of them. And it was this really strange thing because it was a very, very, very moving. When she was talking about him and she said that, that they had been, they had sent messages to each other and the last messages that they had sent to each other was he had said, you know, I love you, Babs. And she had said, yeah, I love you too. And she said, and I signed my, signed the letter Babs. And then she starts singing, you know, the Way We Were. And it was like, wow.
- [40:32]
Kermode's Co-host (possibly a producer or another film critic)
Yes.
- [40:32]
Mark Kermode
And so, so, yeah, once again, I think the thing to take away from this is that sense that these artists being celebrated are being celebrated for being decent people, for having some form of moral clarity. And I know it's very easy to, to, you know, to mock and sneer when we're talking about, you know, actors and stars and Hollywood and all that kind of thing, but it is kind of remarkable that at the moment in America you could legitimately look at the people in that room and go, they have more moral authority than some of the monsters who are currently in power. And I, I, yeah, that kind of struck me a little bit, particularly because I tend to be kind of quite cynical about that sort of thing. But I, I did think there was a kind of parade of decent people.
- [41:33]
Kermode's Co-host (possibly a producer or another film critic)
Yeah. Just mentioning before we close, there are always films the kit left out. There are always actors that are, you know, as you mentioned, Timothy Chalamet always appear to have not won again.
- [41:47]
Mark Kermode
But Phil, he's young, he's five years old, you know, he'll, he'll win when he, when he gets into double figures.
- [41:53]
Kermode's Co-host (possibly a producer or another film critic)
Begonia Train Dreams it was just an accident, the Secret Agent. I mean, it's, There are always losers, but they're all much acclaimed films which will live on for a long time. And, and it probably doesn't. I don't know. Do you take anything away from that? Who's the most offended, do you think, out of all of those.
- [42:13]
Mark Kermode
Well, look, of those ones that you've mentioned, for example, I mean, it was just an accident. I had tagged a while ago as being, you know, being a, I thought, you know, a big awards contender. Yes. In the case of Train Dreams, I think it was always the feeling that it was, it was the fact that it was in the Running was the Celebration. Because it's a small movie and it's a very well made small movie. As I said when I reviewed it, it kind of reminded you of the sort of films Terrence Malick made before Terrence Malick went completely off the boil. I think as far as the Chalamet thing is concerned, I'm not saying this entirely flippantly. He's got plenty of time ahead of him to, you know, and when he does win an Oscar, which he almost certainly will do at some point, people would go, do you remember when he didn't quite win for Marty supreme, for the ping pong thing? I mean, the other, just the other few things that we should mention, there was the Bridesmaids reunion. And that was kind of nice. You know, it was nice to see them all together because, you know, absolutely love Bridesmaids. There was in the. Again, to the Conan o' Brien thing, whereas a lot of the jokes did fall flat, a thing about let's create a new Leonardo DiCaprio meme, which was just. That didn't work at all. The most. Okay, see whether you've. I don't know whether. Did you watch the Conan o' Brien monologue? Have you seen it?
- [43:41]
Kermode's Co-host (possibly a producer or another film critic)
I've seen everything all clipped up. So I've seen the Ted Sarandos. I've seen the, you know, the English actors.
- [43:47]
Mark Kermode
Okay. So there was one joke he made. I couldn't figure out whether it landed or not. And it was this. He said, you know, here we are at the Hazard. Has a small penis. Yeah, the Hazard Small Penis Theater. Let's see him put his name in front of that. And that.
- [44:03]
Kermode's Co-host (possibly a producer or another film critic)
I thought that was good.
- [44:04]
Mark Kermode
That was a good joke. And it was a good joke because. Because again, it is kind of that, that indication of, you know, the best things are the things when. When everyone knows what you're saying, but you may not necessarily be saying it. But then there was another diversion about going over to the announcer and making a joke about Basil Rathbone that didn't work at all. So I thought as far as the presentation was concerned, there was a. There was a lot of. There was a lot of stuff that didn't hit, although there was some that did. I did think Billy Crystal was just great. And as he said, when he walked on stage and you and I have had this discussion before, Billy Crystal hosting the Oscars was something else, wasn't it?
- [44:45]
Kermode's Co-host (possibly a producer or another film critic)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
- [44:47]
Mark Kermode
Very few people. Very few people have been that good.
- [44:51]
Kermode's Co-host (possibly a producer or another film critic)
And those song and dance numbers that he did were Just not pre recorded.
- [44:55]
Mark Kermode
Recorded.
- [44:55]
Kermode's Co-host (possibly a producer or another film critic)
They were absolutely live and part of the show.
- [44:58]
Mark Kermode
The horse.
- [44:58]
Kermode's Co-host (possibly a producer or another film critic)
Okay.
- [44:59]
Mark Kermode
You know, the.
- [45:01]
Kermode's Co-host (possibly a producer or another film critic)
Well, I. I think you're probably gonna have. I think you're being chucked out of your Hollywood Plaza at Grand Continental Suite sometime soon, Simon.
- [45:09]
Mark Kermode
I'm going to a day of screenings,
- [45:10]
Kermode's Co-host (possibly a producer or another film critic)
a day of screens.
- [45:11]
Mark Kermode
I'm literally going from here to a day of screens. My first one is at 10 o' clock and I can't remember the title of it, but it's at Universal. Yeah, I'm literally. I'm going from here to the very first screening. Here we go. What am I seeing first? First thing I'm seeing this morning is. Oh, yeah, mid. Mid winter. Midwinter Bread. Is it Midwinter Bread or Midwinter Bread? Anyway, he's got the word midwinter in it. Yeah, I'm going there first.
- [45:36]
Kermode's Co-host (possibly a producer or another film critic)
My favorite part of this conversation in the last 30 seconds has been the total surprise appearance of Basil Rathbone. Mr.
- [45:46]
Mark Kermode
Basil. You can't leave Mr. Basil there.
- [45:50]
Kermode's Co-host (possibly a producer or another film critic)
Correct.
- [45:51]
Mark Kermode
Good.
- [45:51]
Kermode's Co-host (possibly a producer or another film critic)
Basil Brush. Basil Rathbone. A fine place to. This is the only Oscar conversation which features Basil Brush and Basil Rathbone. Takes will be along in their normal place. There'll be a cinematic version of this on Patreon. Thank you very much indeed for listening and Mark, thank you for staying awake.
- [46:10]
Mark Kermode
You're welcome.
- [46:21]
Corinne
I want to tell you guys about a podcast that is near and dear to my heart and I cannot believe it already came out a year ago. And you can all go listen to it ad free by subscribing to the binge podcast channel.
- [46:32]
Jessie Buckley
What podcast, Corinne? Tell us.
- [46:34]
Corinne
Oh, it's called Blink Jig Handle Story. I created it about a man named Jake who I met who is the only survivor of a terminal brain injury illness brought on by heroin use. But there is a lot of mystery and medical malpractice and true crime elements that are very shocking and surprising and even some supernatural elements.
- [46:56]
Jessie Buckley
So this is definitely an amazing story
- [46:58]
Corinne
and it's very unique.
- [47:00]
Jessie Buckley
Did such an incredible job telling the story and sharing it with the world. So if you have not listened to it yet, my goodness, where have you been? Because Blink is so freaking good.
- [47:09]
Corinne
Thank you. Search for Blink wherever you listen and subscribers to the binge will get the entire season ad free. Plus you'll get exclusive access to the over 60 other true crime stories on the binge podcast channel. Hit subscribe on Apple podcasts or head to getthebinge.com.