SIR IAN MCKELLEN: Christophers and some unfinished business…

Summary

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Kermode & Mayo’s Take

Episode: SIR IAN MCKELLEN: Christophers and some unfinished business…
Date: May 7, 2026
Hosts: Mark Kermode & Simon Mayo
Special Guest: Sir Ian McKellen

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Episode Overview

This week, Mark and Simon deliver their signature mix of sharp film criticism and witty rapport, with a focus on new releases and exclusive interviews. The highlight is a rich, in-depth conversation with legendary actor Sir Ian McKellen about his role in Steven Soderbergh’s new film The Christophers, creativity, unfinished business, and reflections on his career. The episode also includes reviews of hotly anticipated releases (The Sheep Detectives, Mortal Kombat 2), a box office run-down, TV discussion (Legends), and the usual array of correspondence, recommendations, and jokes.

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Key Segments & Insights

Host Banter & Book Plugs

• [03:00 – 06:15]
  • Simon and Mark playfully debate the value of video vs. audio podcasting.
  • Simon’s “curated bookshelf” is revealed, featuring academic film books—including Mark’s own.
  • Amusing confusion over foreign editions of Mark’s books.
    Quote: “There was some correspondence last week… some people said, 'that’s not a Korean edition, that's a Chinese edition.' No, there were two separate editions.” – Mark Kermode [04:42]

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This Week’s Reviews Preview

• [06:29 – 08:00]
  • Mark teases reviews of Legends (TV), Mortal Kombat 2 (film), and The Sheep Detectives (animated film), among others.
  • Simon highlights the appearance of Sir Ian McKellen as this week’s star guest.

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Event Cinema & Correspondence

The Power of Live Film Scores

• [08:44 – 12:03]
  • An email from director Neil Marshall appreciates live film-with-orchestra showings (e.g., Interstellar at the Royal Albert Hall).
  • Mark suggests attending silent film screenings with improvised live music (e.g., Neil Brand’s performances).
  • Quote: “Just a wonderful experience… to see somebody watching a film and playing along to it completely spontaneously.” – Mark Kermode [11:17]

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Review: The Sheep Detectives

Outlandish Animated Crime Comedy

• [12:43 – 19:33]
  • Written by Craig Mazin (Chernobyl, The Last of Us)—described as “Babe meets Knives Out.”
  • The plot: A flock of sheep tries to solve the murder of their beloved shepherd.
  • High-profile voice cast: Julie Louis Dreyfus, Bryan Cranston, Chris O'Dowd, Patrick Stewart, Bella Ramsey, Ian McKellen, and more.
  • Unexpected blend of comedy, animal horror, cozy crime, and pathos.
  • Mark’s verdict: Deeply charming and likely to be a hit across all ages.
    Quote: “I found it really charming and really funny and really moving… It’s going to be a hit and people are going to really, really enjoy themselves.” – Mark Kermode [18:44]

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Chart Rundown / Box Office Top 10

Audience Buzz & Criticism

• [22:27 – 32:43]
  • Roses of Nevada lauded for its atmosphere (listener: “I could practically smell the licorice rolling papers.”)
  • Lee Cronin's The Mummy: “The Exorcist with bandages.”
  • Drama (Zendaya and “Arpatz”): “Raises a bunch of really thorny questions. Really funny and engaging.” [25:10]
  • Devil Wears Prada 2: Mark: “It's just plot, plot, plot… a bunch of machinations to get everybody in the same room.” Simon: “Freeman levels of fluff.”
  • Mark on escapism: “When times are as they are now, I just want to see a big bit of fluff… That is a magnificent joke, to which I’d just like to add a nod off.” [31:03]

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In-depth Interview: Sir Ian McKellen

Reflections, Craft, and 'The Christophers'

• [35:21 – 51:02]
  • Recorded at McKellen’s pub, The Grapes, in Limehouse.
  • The Christophers: McKellen plays Julian Skla, an elderly, reclusive artist with unfinished masterpieces—caught up in a plot involving his greedy children (James Corden, Jessica Gunning) and Michaela Coel as Laurie.
  • On the character: “He’s not David Hockney… but you feel as if he might be rather grumpy in his old age. Lives by himself. It’s all over, he thinks. And he’s a sad man, lonely. Into his life walks this amazing woman…” – Sir Ian McKellen [37:34]
  • On unfinished business: “As you get older, you decide, am I going to go on or am I going to look back?... He’s static and comes back to life through his meeting with this remarkable young girl.” [38:30]
  • On writing jokes: “I can proudly say that I wrote one of the best jokes in the movie. I’m not going to tell you what it is.”
  • On acting and comedy: “Truth is the heart of comedy. Unless you’re being absolutely real, you won’t be funny… I learned, over a long period, to be at ease with making people laugh.” [41:11]
  • Soderbergh’s directing style: minimal prep, rapid filming, high trust in actors, and near-instant editing. “With Soderbergh, once and you’re off home at 3 o’clock… Unusual. That’s a sign of his confidence and the accuracy of his eye.” [44:53]
  • On returning to Lord of the Rings for Andy Serkis’ new version: “I’ll be there for three months… It’ll be lovely to be back with the old team.” [46:46]
  • On unfinished theatrical roles: Desire to return to Falstaff and King Lear. “These parts…you never get to the bottom of them.” [48:53]
  • On endless curiosity: “How wonderful to still be looking for new stuff and still be improving and still getting great roles.” [48:53]

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TV Review: Legends (Netflix Series)

Undercover Civil Servants & the Dark Comedy of 'Ordinary People'

• [52:00 – 60:41]
  • Steve Coogan stars as Don Clark, head of Customs Operations, charged with recruiting ordinary people for undercover work against heroin smuggling in early 90s UK.
  • Written by Neil Forsyth (The Gold, Bob Servant).
  • The “Legends” are the operatives’ cover identities; danger arises when these personas take over.
  • Features strong wit and tension: “A stone skipping lightly over deep waters” (Coogan’s description). “It’s witty… but also really gripping.” – Mark Kermode [57:28]
  • Praise for Tom Burke, Hayley Squires, and Coogan’s against-type, dramatic performance.
  • Simon: “It’s always trained cops or spies or something… These people really don’t [know what they’re doing]… So therefore you think, that’s me. You empathize with them in a way you never would with a spy or cop.” [59:51]

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Review: Mortal Kombat 2

Smashy Bashy Fun with Added Wit

• [66:20 – 71:43]
  • Direct follow-up to the 2021 reboot. Johnny Cage (Carl Urban) enters the fray alongside established fighters.
  • Noted for CGI-heavy gore, inventive weapons, and “smashy bashy fun.”
  • Mark: “Script is witty… Carl Urban and Lawson playing things for laughs, hit many good home runs. I laughed quite a few times… 10 minutes after, hard to remember much significant, but it was generally smashy bashy fun.” [71:43]
  • Simon's confusion between Carl Urban and country singer Keith Urban leads to a running joke.

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Correspondence Highlights

Flanders & Swann, Douglas Adams, and Vintage British Comedy

• [62:16 – 65:31]
  • Listener Dom from London celebrates references to Flanders and Swann and Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, sharing stories of winning a school talent contest with “The Gas Man Cometh.”
  • Discussion of generational comedy and a recommended classic LP: Hoffnung at the Oxford Union [65:42]
  • Pan Galactic Gargle Blaster: “The effect of which is like having your brain smashed out by a slice of lemon wrapped around a gold brick.” [65:17]

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Memorable Quotes

• Mark Kermode:

  • “The power of cinema… is sharing the experience of a great movie in a way that we don’t seem to in regular cinemas anymore.” [09:15]
  • “My film of the week is The Sheep Detectives and those are not words I ever thought I would say out loud.” [75:07]

• Sir Ian McKellen:

  • “[Julian Skla] is static and comes back to life, I think, through his meeting with this remarkable young girl.” [38:30]
  • “Truth is the heart of comedy. Unless you’re being absolutely real, you won’t be funny.” [41:11]
  • “What else am I going to do with my life?” (on still seeking new creative challenges) [48:58]

• Simon Mayo:

  • “It is a very, very Ian McKellen performance.” [51:17]
  • “It’s wonderful to still be improving and still getting great roles.” [48:53]

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Notable Moments

• Mark reveals the best-looking edition of his own book is the Japanese translation of The Exorcist. [05:28]
• Listener Neil Marshall’s praise for event cinema sparks Mark’s extended paean to live scored silent films. [10:47]
• Mark is baffled but ultimately won over by The Sheep Detectives—the surprise hit of the episode. [19:33]
• Sir Ian McKellen confesses he slipped in the best joke in The Christophers but refuses to reveal it. [40:18]
• Both hosts indulge in affectionate nostalgia for British comedy icons and running gags about audience demographics. [63:55]

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Timestamps of Key Sections

• [03:00] Host banter & bookshelf gags
• [06:29] This week’s review lineup
• [12:43] The Sheep Detectives review (with Ian McKellen clip at [14:13])
• [22:27] Box office rundown & listener reviews
• [35:21] The Christophers: Ian McKellen interview (main section [36:01 – 51:02])
• [52:00] Legends (Netflix TV) review & discussion
• [66:20] Mortal Kombat 2 review
• [62:16] Correspondence: classics of British humor & listener Dom’s anecdotes
• [75:01] Film of the week & wrap-up

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Tone & Style

The episode brims with warmth, intelligence, irreverence, and the hosts’ unmistakable chemistry. McKellen’s interview mixes wisdom, self-deprecating humor, and a moving take on aging, artistry, and unfinished creative journeys. Mark’s reviews blend insight and unexpected delight—particularly for The Sheep Detectives, which emerges as the unexpectedly charming standout.

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For Further Listening

• Next week: Full review of The Christophers.
• Last week: Steve Coogan on Legends (recommended context for this week’s TV review).
• Take Two (for subscribers): Additional content on Michael and broader debates in cinema.

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Film of the Week: The Sheep Detectives
Correspondent of the Week: Dom from London (Flanders and Swann & Hitchhiker’s Guide nostalgia)

Contact: [e-mail]
Patreon & Extra Episodes: extratakes.com

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This summary captures all notable discussion points and the best moments with attributions and timestamps—ideal for anyone looking to catch up quickly on the episode’s substance and spirit without missing the flavor of the conversation.

Transcript

[Simon Mayo]

Now, Mark, you were telling me the other day about this Saily Esim app.

[Mark Kermode]

Which one was that?

[Simon Mayo]

Well, the one I just install on my phone before I go abroad so that I can save loads of money on roaming and data charges when I'm there.

[Mark Kermode]

Ah, yes, it's dead simple. Install the Saily app on your device and choose a data plan. There are multiple plans in over 200 destinations available at some of the best rates online. Then follow the instructions on the app to install the ESIM and it will be activated instantly on arrival.

[Simon Mayo]

So I don't have to buy a new SIM card when I get there?

[Mark Kermode]

Nope. There's no queuing at a dodgy airport kiosk. A Saily ESIM only needs to be installed once and then you use the same one for each country you visit.

[Simon Mayo]

Great. Does it let me skip all the other queues too?

[Mark Kermode]

Well, funnily enough, with Sali Ultra you can enjoy VIP travel perks like airport lounge access, fast track services, priority support, advanced online security and much more.

[Simon Mayo]

You'll be telling me we've got a voucher code next.

[Mark Kermode]

Oh yes, and don't forget to apply the code. Take to T A K E at checkout to get a 15% discount.

[Simon Mayo]

Howdy, partner.

[Mark Kermode]

Hello, Simon Mayo.

[Simon Mayo]

I was just thinking the other day about the good old days.

[Mark Kermode]

What? The good old days in the Wild West. What's with the howdy partner thing?

[Simon Mayo]

Well, I was just thinking that when we started out in the radio. Yeah, we were lucky because we had each other to bounce off. But most people don't have that support from a partner when they're starting out in business and they can get overwhelmed easily.

[Mark Kermode]

Yeah, very true. But they could try Shopify. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world, from household names like Mattel and Heinz to brands just getting started.

[Simon Mayo]

Shopify can help you get more efficient, whether you're uploading new products or trying to improve existing ones.

[Mark Kermode]

And if people haven't heard about your brand, Shopify helps you find your customers with easy to run email and social media campaigns.

[Simon Mayo]

Start your business today with the industry's best business partner, Shopify, and start hearing.

[Mark Kermode]

Sign up for your one pound per month trial today at shopify.co.uk take that's shopify.co.uk take.

[Simon Mayo]

Before we begin, a quick reminder that you can become a Vanguardista and get an extra episode every Thursday, including bonus

[Mark Kermode]

reviews, extra viewing suggestions, viewing recommendations at home and in cinemas, plus your film

[Simon Mayo]

and non film questions answered as best we can in questions you can get

[Mark Kermode]

all that extra stuff via Apple podcasts or head to extratakes.com for non fruit related devices.

[Simon Mayo]

There's never been a better time to become a Vanguardista. Free offer now available wherever you get your podcasts. And if you're already a Vanguard Easter, we salute you. I don't believe in. In adding pictures to audio. That's my opening statement to you, Mark. I know.

[Mark Kermode]

Have we begun? Yeah, have we begun?

[Simon Mayo]

And I know lots of people like to watch us on. On YouTube. I'm just suggesting that too much attention is paid to what we look like.

[Mark Kermode]

Well, the hilarious thing is. So you're in, you're in your house in showbiz North London. I'm in Ali's attic where I have literally got everything balanced upon, you know, books and bits of wire and string. Until about two seconds ago. In between us was the beheadphoned figure of Simon Poole, who only just remembered to turn his camera off.

[Simon Mayo]

Oh, really? That's a shock. First thing in the morning.

[Mark Kermode]

How are you doing?

[Simon Mayo]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, very good. I have. But you know. So for example, the first thing that I did this morning was arrange my bookshelf.

[Mark Kermode]

Yes.

[Simon Mayo]

I had a bet with Josh that you'd spot this before we go anywhere, but the astute listener will have noticed this. And also this.

[Mark Kermode]

You've suddenly gone into soft definition. So what are you pointing at?

[Simon Mayo]

I'm pointing at two books on my bookshelf. Can you not.

[Mark Kermode]

Yeah, I know I can see that. But what are the books that you're pointing at?

[Simon Mayo]

Okay, I'm going to remove them slowly.

[Mark Kermode]

Okay, fine.

[Simon Mayo]

This is why I don't believe in pictures. Okay, what is this one?

[Mark Kermode]

Oh, that's Steven Spielberg's children by. By Dr. Linda Ruth Williams. Professor Linda Ruth Williams. The definitive guide to children in the films of Steven Spielberg. And that is Surround Sound by Jenny Nelson and some bloke that she used to produce.

[Simon Mayo]

Just saying, just saying. Curated shelf.

[Mark Kermode]

Well done.

[Simon Mayo]

Thank you.

[Mark Kermode]

Nicely curated. It's looking. Looking fine. Looking very much to contribute to the

[Simon Mayo]

show, really, other than I have a curated bookshelf. There was your book's prominent.

[Mark Kermode]

There was some correspondence apparently last week when we were talking about the Korean edition of Movie Doctors and some people said, that's not a Korean edition, that's a Chinese edition. No, no, there were two separate editions. The Korean edition, which is the one that. Do you have it there? Yeah, which is the one with the doctor with laser beams coming out of their eyes, for which I am told that the title does not translate as the movie Doctors. It translates as something like, movies need to go to the surgery.

[Simon Mayo]

And version.

[Mark Kermode]

There we go. I don't think I've got a copy of that version.

[Simon Mayo]

This is still wrapped.

[Mark Kermode]

Did you get it from the publishers?

[Sir Ian McKellen]

Yeah.

[Mark Kermode]

Wow. I must get onto them and see whether. See whether I've got one.

[Simon Mayo]

It says the movie Doctors in English and then everything.

[Mark Kermode]

But you. But you don't know what it's like inside because the Korean one inside is fantastic. I mean, the design is absolutely brilliant. The very best edition of any book of mine that I have is the Japanese edition of. Of the BFI Modern Classics on the Exorcist, because the design of it is just astonishingly good.

[Simon Mayo]

I've got an open one here and.

[Mark Kermode]

All right, fine.

[Simon Mayo]

And it looks pretty much the same as the uk.

[Mark Kermode]

So. Hang on, you've got two copies of it? I have.

[Simon Mayo]

I have two Chinese copies.

[Mark Kermode]

Does it not occur to you that one of them may be mine?

[Simon Mayo]

I would imagine the publisher would send you your copies and me my copies.

[Mark Kermode]

That's why I haven't got any copies of it.

[Simon Mayo]

I'll sell you. I could sell you this for the price of a Linda Ruth Williams academic book.

[Mark Kermode]

Yeah, that'll do fine. So that's 142 quid, is it?

[Simon Mayo]

Exactly. Plus 50p. Anyway, enough bookshelf and visual banter. It's time that we unveiled what was on the show this week. So, Mark, what are you up to?

[Mark Kermode]

Well, coming up on the show this week, we have a review of Legends, which is the TV series that you spoke to Steve Coogan about last week.

[Simon Mayo]

Yes, we both did.

[Mark Kermode]

Really? We both did. Well, I talked to him about Saipan because at that point I hadn't seen Legends, but obviously now I have, or at least I've seen the four episodes that they sent me. Mortal Kombat 2, obviously the sequel to Mortal Kombat and the Sheep Detectives.

[Simon Mayo]

Fantastic. I'm really looking forward to this.

[Mark Kermode]

It's the Sheep Detectives, what can I tell you?

[Simon Mayo]

Written by Craig Mason and written by Amazing Craig Mason.

[Mark Kermode]

Yeah. Yes.

[Simon Mayo]

And the original title was apparently Three Bags Full, but no one. No one thought that that was. Anyone would know what it was about. But I suppose the Shitty Detectives at least says what it's about.

[Mark Kermode]

Yeah. Three Bags Full is the title of the book on which it is based. We'll get to all this when we get to the review. Yes, it originally Three Bags Full and in take two, Reflection in A Dead diamond, which is a small but really, really interesting kind of horror adventure action, super spy thriller. Release and Billie Eilish Hit me hard and Soft. The Tour Live in 3D, directed by James Titanic Cameron.

[Simon Mayo]

Okay, excellent. I should mention, of course, that Ian McKellen is our special guest in this show.

[Mark Kermode]

Oh, sorry, yes.

[Simon Mayo]

I'm not quite sure how. How we forgot that That's Sir Ian McKellen.

[Mark Kermode]

Sir Ian McKellen, talking about his new film the Christophers, which we will review next week when it comes out, although we have both seen it, which is

[Simon Mayo]

the new Steven Soderbergh film. Yeah. Vanguard Easters get not only Take one ad free, but also our weekly show Take two ad free. And if you sign up on our Patreon as an Ultra, you get all that plus our fortnightly extra show, Take Ultra. Take Ultra. It was a very fine edition last week it was even more the good stuff. Yeah. And so if you head over, if you'd like to join the club. And I wonder whose patron is better, ours or Bob Dylan's? Why Bob thinks he needs a Patreon, I'm not at all sure, but does

[Mark Kermode]

Bob Dylan have a Patreon page?

[Simon Mayo]

Yeah, I mean, essentially Patreon, you would. If you're a global superstar, you know, one of the prime movers and shakers in the world's music, you don't need the support of Patreon, do you? I don't know.

[Mark Kermode]

I mean, I don't know, maybe he's not. Maybe he's not getting quite the royalties

[Simon Mayo]

from his permanent touring. An email here from Neil Marshall. What?

[Mark Kermode]

That Neil Marshall?

[Simon Mayo]

Dear Thunderbolt and Lightfoot, it's Neil Marshall. Yes, that Neil Marshall. The same Neil Marshall you thought might be that Neil Marshall. Last time it was.

[Mark Kermode]

Hello, Neil Marshall.

[Simon Mayo]

So many thanks for reading out my email. Hellboy, Dog Soldiers and the Descent. That was him, wasn't it?

[Mark Kermode]

Yeah, yeah, that Neil Marshall.

[Simon Mayo]

Yeah. So many thanks for reading out my email. Perhaps lightning will strike twice. And it appears to have done. Recently, I was fortunate enough to see a special screening of Interstellar at the Royal Albert hall in London, accompanied by a live orchestra and and thunderous church organ. The place was packed out and the audience were truly engaged and respectful of each other and the movie, not a mobile phone inside. At several of the truly intense climactic moments, the entire place burst into spontaneous applause and it reminded me of what it feels like to share the experience of a great movie in a way that we don't seem to in regular cinemas anymore. I've been to a few of these events now and each one leaves me with the same buzz. Clearly It's a trend that is catching on as the Albert hall now has a yearly program of movies with live scores. And I see the O2 arena has a few on its roster. Perhaps this is one possible future of cinema regaining its status as a true event. Sure, it's more expensive than a regular cinema, but for a cinephile, it's absolutely worth it. If you haven't attended one of these screenings, I highly recommend it. Of course, it doesn't work for just any movie. Tarantino's films, for example, are mainly filled with needle drops, so they wouldn't work in this context. But anything with a classic score by William Zimmer, Goldsmith Morricone and their ilk play like gangbusters. I quite fancy the Great Escape or the Magnificent Seven this way sometime. That would be amazing. Anyway, keep up the good work. Down with AI and long live the power of cinema. Says that Neil Marshall. You know that one.

[Mark Kermode]

Well, that Neil Marshall is right, that this is a booming industry. The live scores performed to the film is becoming a really, really big deal. Can I just say that if you're enjoying that, certainly carry on enjoying that, but also have a go at seeing a score performed to a silent film. Perhaps a score performed in an improvised fashion by skiffle band accompanying Neil Brand. Maybe a movie like Beggars of Life or. Or City Girl, which. We're going back to Bavaria. We're going back to Bavaria because we did City Girl before. We're going to go and do Beggars of Life quite soon.

[Simon Mayo]

But it's all about you. That's.

[Mark Kermode]

Well, it's. No, it's not all about me. It's all about live film music. And this is, as you will know, Simon, if I get a bee in my bonnet about something, I do tend to stick with it. And I have been going on about live film music for, you know, many, many decades now. And it is rather wonderful that it is. The, you know, the hopes and predictions for it are coming true. And if you ever get a chance to see Neil Brand on his own, I mean, with or without the Dodge brothers, just to see Neil Brand playing along, particularly to a series of, you know, early silent comedy shorts, and do. Because it's just a wonderful experience just to see somebody watching a film and playing along to it completely spontaneously, I would have.

[Simon Mayo]

Neil's in. He's. He's. I'm now annoyed having read Neil's email, because Interstellar with the orchestra, plus the organ, because we talked about this before. That organ is so incredible. It sounds so amazing on that on that soundtrack, that that would have been unmissable. Although, sadly, I did in fact miss it. Also, Amadeus was also unmissable, and I missed that as well. So the word unmissable is utterly pointless. But that's event cinema, that's what that is. Neil, thank you very much indeed for getting in touch. Okay, [e-mail] let's talk the Sheep Detectives. I've only seen the trailer, but I laughed about three times.

[Mark Kermode]

Okay, the Sheep Detectives, which is the latest unexpected career swerve from writer Craig Mason, as you said, who first rose to prominence with writing credits on Scary Movie and Hangover franchises, both of which were terrible, then stunned everyone with Chernobyl, for which he won a Primetime and Broadcasting Press Guild Award. And he then moved on to the Last of Us, which I think earned him a Peabody. Well, what's next? Well, naturally, when you've done all that, you're going to do an adaptation of Leonie Swans 2005, family friendly German language oddity, Glen Kill Ein Schaffskri, which became an international bestseller, known in English language translations as, as you mentioned earlier, Three Bags Full, A Sheep detective story. And funnily enough, my friends, Alan, Diego was staying over the weekend and Diego is Argentinian, and Three bags full means absolutely nothing. And we're going, you know, three bags full, sir, yes, sir, no, sir. Three bags full, sir, no, Absolutely nothing. Hence, a Sheep detective story. Best way of describing it is Babe meets Knives Out. So it's directed by Carl Balder, whose directorial credits include Minions, Despicable Me, Three Minions, the Rise of Gru. So, a big name in animation. The story follows an attempt by a flock of sheep to find out who had the knives out for their beloved shepherd, George, a shepherd who loved them like his own family. Here's a clip.

[Simon Mayo]

When my chores are finished and the sun starts to sink low in the sky, I choose a book to read out loud to them. Detective novels, mysteries, whodunits, all my favourites.

[Sir Ian McKellen]

I know when Rodney Hollingshead was murdered and I know who the real killer was.

[Simon Mayo]

I like to pretend that they follow along with the story, but I know

[Sir Ian McKellen]

in my heart that as special as

[Simon Mayo]

they are, they're still cheap. No, no more. Go on.

[Sir Ian McKellen]

A lot of you.

[Simon Mayo]

I'll read the ending tomorrow.

[Sir Ian McKellen]

Why would he stop there?

[Simon Mayo]

He was just about to say who the killer was. This is torture. It was the mate, right?

[Mark Kermode]

The unmistakable voice before we heard the sheep talking. Because, of course they understand everything of Mr. Huge Action there.

[Simon Mayo]

Yes, yes, absolutely.

[Mark Kermode]

The sheep voice cast includes Julie Louis Dreyfus, Bryan Cranston, Chris o', Dowd, Regina Hall, Patrick Stewart, Bella Ramsey, Last of Us Reece Darby and a dual role for Brett Goldstein. The Human being cast includes Emma Thompson as Lydia Harbottle, George, George's lawyer who turns up to do the reading of the will. Molly Gordon as Rebecca Hampstead, the daughter George's friends didn't know about, but who turned up in his locale shortly before the knives out thing happened. Nicholas Galitzin as Elliot Matthews, the reporter who thinks there's a story there. Nicholas Braun as the foolish policeman Tim Derry who is clearly in way over his head. And Huge action. Now, I didn't know anything like you until I saw the poster in this case in which Huge Action gets a front and center starring role. But since he is the person at the center of this murder mystery, he is necessarily absent for a lot of the drama. For if he was not, there would not be a mystery. As I said, I knew nothing about any of this when I went in. I knew the film was called the Sheep Detectives and had huge action in it. And consequently I was pretty surprised by what happened with Mr. Huge Action in the opening overs, you know, the biting, the turf. Fairly honest, but to be honest with you, I was pretty baffled by the whole thing, at least at first. Okay. Because I had no idea, despite the title, a it was going to be a murder mystery, B, that it was going to combine funny CG talking animals with some Watership down style scary animal horror. I mean, there's a bit when the sheep, our sheep, meet the sheep from the adjoining field in the middle of the night that honestly have me thinking about George Romero horror movies. There is a touch of the Murder She Wrote cozy crime sleuthing going on. I mean, cozy crime is, is the big genre if you. You're writing your next book, Simon Cozy Crime. Apparently that's the thing.

[Simon Mayo]

No, it definitely will not be anything like that. Thank you.

[Mark Kermode]

Okay, there is some post Chicken run Soylent Green pro vegetarian terror about what the other shepherds who don't love their sheep much as George does or did, what those sheep are actually being grown for. There is a bit of genuinely weird family tragedy pathos and then some sort of sheepy Shakespearean sacrifice for the greater good. And there is a whole lot of utterly bonkers plot twists, including, including a late in the day revelation about the mixing of blue and yellow to make green that had even me going, sorry, just do that again. What's more surprising than any of it? So you said you watched the trailer and you laughed three times, right? I did, yeah. I. When it started, it was like, what on earth is going on? And I thought, there's no way that any of this can work. And the weird thing is it really, really does. And I found it really charming and really funny and really moving. I mean, the high caliber pedigree of everyone on screen as taking into account the fact that some bits do work better than other bits. Much more of it works than doesn't work. And I came out thinking, that was really cute. That was really charming. As I walked out of the screening, one of the PR people was there and they said, what do you think? I said, I thought it was really cute. And then I caught some. I can't believe I just said that was really cute. I mean, the whole thing, the fact that the whole thing pivots on a much loved character biting the turf early on in the drama, you know, ruthless poisoning. And then much of the rest of the film being spent trying to figure out just how horrible human beings can be. And yet still somehow it manages to be charming. I mean, I had no idea about it going in and I came out thinking, that's it, it's going to be a hit. It's going to be a hit and people are going to really, really enjoy themselves and it's going to work across a range of ages. Despite all that weird stuff, it's PG for mild violence, brief threat and language. And that doesn't come anywhere close to describing how WTF Stranger is. But I really enjoyed it. I thought it was really, really cute.

[Simon Mayo]

Maybe that's what you make when. Because you just mentioned all the, you know, the big things that Craig Mason has done. Maybe he would, you know, he wouldn't have been able to make it like that if he hadn't done the Last of Us. If he hadn't done Chernobyl, you know, if he'd gone just straight comedy, it wouldn't been quite so strange.

[Mark Kermode]

He has had the most remarkable career. I mean, it is. It is absolutely unbelievable when you read, you know, Scary Movie three, Scary Movie four, Hangover Part two, Hangover Part three, the Huntsman, Charlie's Angels, Dune Part two. That's Uncred, Charlie's Angels, Dune Part two, uncredited rewrites and then Sheep Detectives and then on television, Chernobyl, the Last of. I mean, yeah, two of the best.

[Simon Mayo]

I mean, he was a guest on the show last year, but, you know, two of the. Yeah, you know, I remember when Chernobyl came out, just jaw on the floor. And I remember interviewing Anthony Horowitz, who said, it's probably the greatest television show I have ever seen. And, you know. Oh, okay, right. Well, you've written quite a lot, so you know what you're talking about. And it is just. And it's been on television again recently. So.

[Mark Kermode]

Yeah. Just astonishing. Just astonishing. Instantly on the subject of the scary movie movies. Yes. You know, there's a new one on the way.

[Simon Mayo]

Great. What's it going to be called?

[Mark Kermode]

Scary Movie 6, I think.

[Simon Mayo]

Okay. Still to come, I mean, Sheep Detectives. There's a very good, positive start to the show. Page Six. Mark, what's to come after the break?

[Mark Kermode]

After the break, we're going to be doing the chart rundown and we're going to be speaking to our very special guest.

[Simon Mayo]

Okay, that's you.

[Mark Kermode]

Is that. I am not on page six. I'm just making it up.

[Simon Mayo]

No, that's. That's obviously okay.

[Mark Kermode]

Read what it says that I meant

[Simon Mayo]

to say Steve Coogan in crime thriller Legends about a team of undercover civil servants aiming to infiltrate heroin smuggling rings in the 1990s. Mortal Kombat 2, in which the fan favorite champions, now joined by Johnny Cage himself, are pitted against one another in the ultimate battle to defeat the dark rule of Shao Kahn that threatens the very existence of the Earthrealm and its defenders, as it doesn't have Serene McKellen in it, but we do. Yes. Our guest is Siri McKellen, who'll be talking about his new film, the Christophers.

[Mark Kermode]

Was I meant to read all that

[Simon Mayo]

out, apart from the last line? Yes.

[Mark Kermode]

I'm not the presenter. That's your job.

[Simon Mayo]

It's. It's on Page six. Anyway, all of that in a minute. It's time to bring on the blooms at the Home Depot with Spring Garden deals. Find savings on hanging baskets and flowers to brighten your backyard or any space that needs instant color. Then get everything you need to plant and protect them with low prices guaranteed on soil and mulch. Dig into Spring garden deals for four days at the Home Depot. Now through May 10th exclusion supply. See homedepot.com pricematch for details.

[Mark Kermode]

Don't sexy Lotharios often behave abominably towards women? Yes, but they don't always behead them or split from the Catholic Church.

[Simon Mayo]

History's greatest fails is the show where we we find out why losers make history. Hosted by me, Dan Jones, and me, Elizabeth Day. We're old friends and fellow history graduates, and in this podcast, we're going to dig into failures of historical proportions. Listen to history's greatest fails on the this Is History podcast feed or watch on YouTube. And next we have the box office top 10, starting at number 10, which is 10 in this country as opposed to over there, Rose of Nevada set number 10, Jordan says. What a refreshing breath of analog air Mark Jenkins is in oppressively digital. In an oppressively digital world, his format and style could easily become tiresome and forcefully retro. But it doesn't even feel anachronistic. In fact, it's so natural and evocative I could practically smell the licorice rolling papers and Jordan Jonathan says the M and S I finally got a chance to see Rose and Nevada after missing out on tickets for it at the London Film Festival last year, had been keenly waiting for it to be released in cinemas. It was definitely worth the wait. What some other directors might have portrayed as a cozy, nostalgic fisherman's fable was instead presented as an unsettling, misty mystery that felt like a confusing dream where causality and characters have become twisted and interchanged. It was atmospheric and beautiful to watch to the best accolade I can give it is that after seeing it with the other half last Sunday, we then went to see a different film yesterday, before which there was a trailer for Rose of Nevada. During the trailer, two of the characters had a short conversation that perhaps gave a clue to the puzzle which made us both independently realize we had to watch Rose of Nevada again soon. The only negative aspect was that seeing the early 90s being portrayed as the irretrievably distant past made me feel very old. All the best from Jonathan. So that's Rose of Nevada at number 10.

[Mark Kermode]

Well, I'm just, I'm thrilled that it's, you know, it's had two weeks in the top 10 because that is amazing for a film shot on wind up clockwork camera. And it's, I think it's Mark Jenkins best and most accessible work.

[Simon Mayo]

Number nine is Lee Cronin's the Mummy.

[Mark Kermode]

The best review of it was the one that I saw before I saw the film, which said it's the Exorcist with bandages. And that's exactly what it is. But if you're going to have Exorcist ripoffs, this is better than the official Exorcist rip offs like Exorcist Believer.

[Simon Mayo]

Number eight here. Number nine in Canada is the drama.

[Mark Kermode]

One of my favorite films of the year, I think. Really provocative. I'm really interested to hear what people think after seeing it because I think it raises a bunch of really thorny questions. But it's also really funny and really engaging. It's got a fantastic central performance by Zendaya and by Arpatz and yeah, no, I loved it.

[Simon Mayo]

Number seven is the Magic Faraway Tree.

[Mark Kermode]

Again, look at that. So Sheep Detectives, which is sure to be top three next week, and Magic Faraway Tree, which is a terrific, likable, family friendly movie that I think adults and children alike will enjoy.

[Simon Mayo]

At number six is Patriots.

[Mark Kermode]

Yeah, I haven't seen Patriots. If you have seen it, send us

[Simon Mayo]

a review [e-mail] Project Hail Mary is at number four in America. Yes, amaze number four here. Number five over there is Hokum. Kaza says, what a roller coaster of a film. I was a little uncomfortable with all the awful men at the start, but Ohm's redemption arc, that's Bauman's character played by Adam Scott, was subtle enough. I didn't notice it happening. After some clever redirection, the halftime twist was pleasantly unexpected and tension racked up steadily. The creepy rabbits hark back to McCarthy's other tails. That's director Damian McCarthy. Peter says McCarthy is excellent at sustaining dread and using jump scares sparingly, which makes them hit hard when they land. There's also a vein of dry humor, largely by the central character. The setting does a lot of the heavy lifting. A remote time forgotten hotel, odd locals, and the strong sense that nobody's sane should be staying here. And naturally there's a forbidden honeymoon suite, allegedly haun with a locked room no one will go near. You can guess how well that rule holds. There is a rare recent horror. This is the rare recent horror that actually got under my skin. Worth your time if you like your scares quiet, ominous and confident, says Peter. So that is Hokum at number four.

[Mark Kermode]

Yeah, well, I really enjoyed Hokum. Can I just say that I just checked the that film at number five is not called Patriots Number six. Pardon me? It's not Patriots, it's Patriot. Singular. Not to be confused. I haven't seen that either. Yeah, no, because it wasn't press screen. But I was one I was looking at thinking why? Why haven't I seen it? But it's because it wasn't press screen, that's why.

[Simon Mayo]

Number three here, Number three there. The Super Mario Galaxy movie Number two here, Number two there. Michael,

[Mark Kermode]

is there any correspondence?

[Sir Ian McKellen]

No. No.

[Mark Kermode]

Fine. Well, in that case, a totally passable nuts and bolts hagiography that leaves out so much of the story as to be laughable and pretends that its central figure is in fact a latter day Saint sent down to earth to free us all from the bonds of oppression and hardship. With some great tunes.

[Simon Mayo]

There is some. There is some conversation about it in the overall, in the overfill car park. Okay, great intake too. So there are some broader issues related to that which we will discuss. But actually the box office top three, which is the same here as it is over there are all, you know, big hitters just, just measured in terms of people going to see these things. Number one is the Devil Wears Prada 2. Mark Woodruff. I went to my beautiful art deco cinema in downtown Los Gatos, California and quickly noted that this is the oasis reunion of movies. The audience were mainly, like me in their 60s looking to relive 20 years ago when everything was, you know, better. This being America. The mark says, I'm English. People dressed up in stilettos and designer outfits. And that was just the men.

[Mark Kermode]

Hey.

[Simon Mayo]

And then he puts in brackets Boomtish here all week.

[Mark Kermode]

So he's been listening to this show.

[Simon Mayo]

We were served up Freeman levels of fluff. One for the kids in this forgettable cheese fest. I can only imagine that the cast were paid obscene amounts of money to blot their copy books with this mess. But there were interesting strands which were never pursued. The sweatshops that make the garments, the. The ruination of lives in the pursuit of profit. The ageism that exists in creative industries like a cheap piece of clothing. These themes just fell apart. However, because we are so invested in these characters, we went along with this self indulgence slop with inane smiles on our faces. The film only confirmed the golden rule. If the actors seem to be enjoying themselves too much, then the audience won't. That's Mark Woodruff. I mean, I just think it is. I haven't seen it. You have. Your review is on last week's program. People are flocking to see these films and they will be keeping cinemas going. So well done for them.

[Mark Kermode]

Yeah, I'm pleased that this has knocked Michael off the top spot. Which means that Michael was only at the top spot for one week. Although in that one week it took so much money that that is the equivalent of staying at the top spot for several weeks. Devil Wears Prada 2. As I said when I was reviewing it, it's just plot, plot, plot, plot, plot and a bunch of machinations to get everybody in the same room so that they can do the thing that we like them doing. And it makes no sense and it has none of the kind of classic arc of the first film. But when you've got Meryl Streep and Emily Blunt and Anne Hathaway and those characters, of course there's going to be a certain amount of fun. I actually thought that that review that you just read out was completely spot on. I mean, absolutely got to it. And I also think that there is something about when times are as they are now. That idea of, oh, I just want to see a big bit of. What was the phrase? It was Freeman levels of fluff.

[Simon Mayo]

Freeman levels of fluff, yes. That is translate around the world.

[Mark Kermode]

But that is a magnificent joke to which I would just like to. To add and not off. Yeah.

[Simon Mayo]

Okay, well, so that's Super Mario, Michael Jackson and the Devil Wears. Would it be just based on what you said last week? I was thinking about your review. Is it more, is Prada too more about journalism than fashion?

[Mark Kermode]

No, no. I mean, it's funny because I was talking to somebody about this and I said, well, you know, the plot stuff is all just fluff. And they said, well, what about the fact that, you know, it's about the decline of print journalism and the rise of the interweb and journalists losing their job? It's not about that, is it? It's not about any of those things. It's not about any of the things that the plot appears to be about in the first film. It is about it. It is about a wide eyed innocent coming into a world that they believe will be one thing being scared of and eventually overcoming their fear of a dragon lady who is at the center of that world. That's an arc. In the case of this, the plot is nothing other than a bus system. It is like a. It's like a tube map to get character a into a room or a Cluedo thing. You know, we got to get Reverend Green in the room with the hammer and the bit of piping. That's all it is. So it's not actually about any of those things. Although it does lip service to the idea that, oh, it's about journalism. It isn't. It isn't about anything. It's not about journalism. It's not about fashion, it's not about sweatshops. It's not about any of those things. It's about getting those characters that you liked before in a drama that had a story back into a series of rooms so they can do some things that you like watching them do. That's it.

[Simon Mayo]

Okay. And it's at number one correspondence, codemair.com and you are just moments away from a conversation with living legend Sir Ian McKellen. Is the gossip show. That's smart. We talk about Tyra Banks and bringing down Top Model. We talk about Jenna Jameson and how she dominated the 90s.

[Mark Kermode]

You know, she's horny and she's in charge.

[Simon Mayo]

She just was very smart about marketing herself. We talk about celebrities who maybe shouldn't be celebrities, like the Beckham guy.

[Mark Kermode]

Brooklyn is their first kid.

[Simon Mayo]

He's had a little bit of the Nepo baby curse. We investigate orgasm cults.

[Mark Kermode]

A woman's erotic power can unlock many other powers in her life.

[Simon Mayo]

And of course, we discuss people who have gotten into lots of trouble. My name is. My name is Molly McLaughlin. I am one of Jen Shaw's many victims. She was defrauding the elderly and her tagline was, the only thing I'm guilty

[Mark Kermode]

of is being sha mazing.

[Simon Mayo]

Listen to Infamous, the gossip show. That's smart. The show's called Infamous. Fabio Sementille. Big heart, big voice, big laugh. A rock star hairstyle stylist who drove a Porsche.

[Mark Kermode]

He was like a wizard behind the chair.

[Simon Mayo]

The killers came for Fabio in his own backyard. You can't rationalize it. You can't figure it out.

[Mark Kermode]

There was rampant speculation about everything, but

[Simon Mayo]

every wild theory was wrong because the truth was even more unbelievable.

[Mark Kermode]

What?

[Simon Mayo]

Is anyone hearing what I'm hearing? And even more heartbreaking, the uncertainty of

[Mark Kermode]

not knowing is a form of agony.

[Simon Mayo]

From Sony Music Entertainment and novel. This is Cut Color Kill. I'm Jonathan Hirsch. Cut Color Kill is available now on the binge. Search for it wherever you get your podcast to start listening today, subscribers to the binge can listen to all episodes all at once ad free. Well, our guest this week is one of Britain's most distinguished stage and screen actors. Stand by for a conversation with Sir Ian McKellen. He's going to be with us very shortly. His latest role is in Steven Soderbergh's new film. The Christophers Is a clip from the film, and then we talk to seeing.

[Sir Ian McKellen]

All right, and while you're out, shall I rustle us up something? A little omelette?

[Simon Mayo]

You're gonna make me an omelette?

[Sir Ian McKellen]

Don't sound so surprised.

[Simon Mayo]

All right, then I'll have a cheese omelette.

[Sir Ian McKellen]

Cheese omelette. That's an omelette with cheese. Actually. How do you introduce the cheese into the omelette?

[Simon Mayo]

And I'm just going to pick something up for us.

[Sir Ian McKellen]

Yeah, yeah. Excellent. Team Mary.

[Simon Mayo]

And that is a clip from the Christophers. I'm delighted to say I've been joined by Sir Ian McKellen. Sir Ian, how are you?

[Sir Ian McKellen]

I'm very well, thank you.

[Simon Mayo]

I was going to say, welcome to the podcast. You're always welcome. But you've welcomed us into your pub.

[Sir Ian McKellen]

You're in the Grapes in Limehouse. Yes, yes.

[Simon Mayo]

And I don't think I've ever done an interview in a pub before and

[Sir Ian McKellen]

you don't even have a drink. But maybe later on.

[Simon Mayo]

Maybe later on.

[Sir Ian McKellen]

And.

[Simon Mayo]

And the poster of the Christophers with Michaela Cole sitting in front of a wonderful oil painting.

[Sir Ian McKellen]

Yes.

[Simon Mayo]

I hope you've got the original.

[Sir Ian McKellen]

No, I haven't got. I haven't even seen it. But I've only seen the poster.

[Simon Mayo]

Well, you absolutely need to have that.

[Sir Ian McKellen]

So it sums it up, really sums up the film.

[Mark Kermode]

It's very good.

[Simon Mayo]

But on a podcast we need to use some words as well. So what are you. The Christophers.

[Sir Ian McKellen]

The Christophers are a series of paintings which my character painted some time ago and abandoned. And they're up in his attic somewhere in his ramshackle house and not quite sure where it is, in the middle of London somewhere. And his two greedy children are eager to rescue these they hope are masterpieces so that they can sell them when he dies. The trouble is, they are not masterpieces because they're not finished. They're paintings that he began and didn't complete.

[Mark Kermode]

Right.

[Sir Ian McKellen]

More than that, you needn't know.

[Simon Mayo]

And you play Julian Skla, so how would you. How would you describe. He's an artist, but there's a lot going on there.

[Sir Ian McKellen]

Well, he's not David Hockney and he's not Francis Bacon who used to live next door, incidentally. And he's not any painter who lives. But you feel as if he might be rather grumpy in his old age. Lives by himself. It's all over, he thinks. And he's a sad man, lonely. And into his life walks this amazing woman who he spars with and I think eventually, in a way, falls in love with.

[Simon Mayo]

Yes. Would you say he's calcified? I mean, he feels as though. Julian feels as though he's.

[Mark Kermode]

He's.

[Simon Mayo]

He's a very famous painter. He has been a very famous painter. Well, what happened to him? Did he get cancelled or. What was it that has happened to him, which is kind of frozen him from, you know, 20, 30 years.

[Sir Ian McKellen]

A lover walked out on him and it devastated him. Calcified? No, I think he's still quite juicy. But the juice is wasted. It runs away into the gutter. It's not put into his work. He hasn't really hasn't painted anything for a long time. Is that believable? Yes, I think so. I think as you get older, you decide, am I going to go on or am I going to look back all the time? And he's in. He's static and comes back to life, I think, through his meeting with this remarkable young girl.

[Simon Mayo]

And the remarkable woman is Michaela Cole, who plays Laurie. She's been sent by your ghastly children, played by James Corden and Jessica Gunning, and explain what. Because it becomes something else. But she's on a mission. She's basically trying to swindle you, isn't she?

[Sir Ian McKellen]

Well, it's a bit of a thriller, so we can't give too much away.

[Simon Mayo]

All right.

[Sir Ian McKellen]

But, yes, she's an agent of the two dreadful children and she comes to try and rescue these unfinished paintings, the Christophers that are upstairs, so that she can do something with them. We shouldn't say what. But the plot gets nicely complicated and the old boy is trying to work out what she's doing here in his house. And although he welcomes her, he resents her at the same time,

[Simon Mayo]

the atmosphere between the two of you is fantastic. You spark off each other. Wonderfully written by Ed Solomon. I think everyone who watches it will think, this must have been written for you, Ian, that this is. This is a fantastic role for you.

[Sir Ian McKellen]

Well, directors and writers do often pay you that compliment, and I never quite believe it, but in this case, as they say, they wrote it for the two of us. Yes, it was absolutely written for her. So I'm happy to accept that it was written for me. But I can proudly say that I wrote one of the best jokes in the movie. I'm not going to tell you what it is.

[Simon Mayo]

Okay. If people can hear a whining noise, I imagine something in the pub has turned on, like the air conditioning or something.

[Sir Ian McKellen]

Yes, don't worry about that.

[Simon Mayo]

We can carry on. So when you say you wrote one

[Mark Kermode]

of the best jokes.

[Simon Mayo]

See, the movie to. It is a funny. It is a funny film. It is darkly comic. I saw an interview with you in where you. You said you have learned to be funny, which kind of implied that you weren't funny. Is that something that you.

[Sir Ian McKellen]

Well, I've learned not during the course of this film, during the course of a career. And when I started out, you used to get the script of a play that had been done previously, the West End, and you'd be doing some poultry revival for two weeks in Coventry, and the script would be marked with asterisks. And if there was one asterisk by a line, it meant that you were expected to get a laugh from the audience. Two asterisks, a bigger laugh. Three, a really big laugh. Four applause. Okay, well, that's very daunting because the last line might be hello, and you. You're baffled as to how on earth that could be funny. Well, the truth of it is that truth is the heart of comedy. Unless you're being absolutely real, you won't be funny. And although there are techniques of comedy like a double take, you have to think a double take, you can't just do it, otherwise it's not funny. So I learned over a long period to be at ease with making people laugh. And now I think that's almost the most enjoyable thing about acting, particularly in the theater.

[Simon Mayo]

It's a Steven Soderbergh film. What is it like to make a film with Steven Soderbergh? But you know, when you're on set, I mean, most of the set is in a house, so it feels like a chamber piece, really, like a two handed.

[Sir Ian McKellen]

Well, you feel like you're a guest in his house and his film, even inside his head, and you're at his service. And that's a very happy position to be in as an actor because he's very confident at what he wants and he lets you know if he's got it or if he hasn't. That said, he's not eager to do much preparation with the actors in advance. The script is there and you're expected to have prepared it somehow on your own and just arrive and be ready to film. That's not how I've worked in the past. And I said, I do need a bit of preparation, a bit of rehearsal. So he lent me the Solomon, the. The screenplay writer and Mikayla, and he came around to my house next door and we sat around the table for a week talking about the script and reading it and amending it, adding bits and removing bits. And at the end of the day, this work was sent over to the director for his approval, which invariably we got. And so that's how we prepared. But the actual filming was down to work straight away. And if he got what he needed, and he knew because he was holding the camera, moving it around with the actors, there was no need to repeat it a second time. And it's usual when you're making a film to do it at least once or twice or three or four times. I remember on Lord of the Rings with Peter Jackson, Christopher Lee, saying to me, good Lord, he said, I had to do that scene 10 times. I said, that's nothing. I did a scene yesterday 28 times. But with Soderbergh, no, once. And you're off home at three o'clock in the afternoon. And he goes back and edits literally the. The day's work. Cuts it in his mind and in fact, so that by the end of the film he has completed basically his work on it, which is extremely unusual. So that's a sign of his confidence and the accuracy of his eye, which is beautifully seen in the film. He is a character in the film, really. He's an observer.

[Simon Mayo]

Is he fulsome in his praise? Fulsome? Is he fulsome in his praise? Does he praise you a lot or does he just expect you to get on with it?

[Sir Ian McKellen]

I don't think he ever told me I was good. But I was warned about this. If he walked out of the room, that was high praise because it meant we were on to the next thing.

[Simon Mayo]

You mentioned. You mentioned Lord of the rings and 28 takes or whatever. If I've got your diary right, you've done Avengers and you're going to do Gandalf. So the robes beckon again. It must be wonderful to be here in your pub, to be doing a film which I think is going to win all over the place and be in your own bed in your own pub.

[Mark Kermode]

Wonderful.

[Sir Ian McKellen]

And unfortunately you can't just see. But just around the corner is Gandalf's staff to keep the hobbits and the imbibers in order. Yes. So even more at home.

[Simon Mayo]

Yes.

[Sir Ian McKellen]

Well, as I'm offering the summer, although it'll be in New Zealand's winter, to do Andy Serkis's latest version of Lord of the Rings.

[Simon Mayo]

And are you excited about that?

[Sir Ian McKellen]

Less than I would be if we were doing it in their summer when New Zealand looks magnificent. It's windy and it's cold and it's wet. But I guess we'll be indoors most of the time, perhaps not on location as much as in the past. It'll be lovely to be back with the old team. But not many of the previous actors. Some, but not many.

[Simon Mayo]

And how long does that shoot take?

[Sir Ian McKellen]

I'll be there for three months. I think

[Simon Mayo]

the heart of the Christophers is sort of unfinished work. That's one of the things that it's about these paintings that are upstairs which, you know, which we do get to see. And I wondered, do you have unfinished work that you would like to go back to? You know, that you started or you would think I would like to finish that.

[Sir Ian McKellen]

I suppose I do, really. Working mainly as I do in the theater. Of course, you have many chances to improve. And sometimes you might play a part, a big of part part like King Lear, a hundred times. And being me, I am better on the hundredth performance than I was on the first night. Well, there are some parts that you feel, even after you've closed in the long run, that there was still more work to be done. I felt that very much when I fell off the stage as Falstaff in Player Kings, Rob Icke's version of Henry IV by Shakespeare, that I was robbed of the last month of the run when I could have perhaps nailed Falstaff.

[Simon Mayo]

You want to go back?

[Sir Ian McKellen]

I do and I don't. Hamlet, which I played when I was 29, a good age to play Hamlet, I felt was unfinished business. And I came around to do it again when I was 82, on film and on stage. And I think King Lear, although I've done it twice, I may return to. I think that may be my next job in the theatre, trying to see what I didn't quite mind. These parts, you know, I'm talking about Shakespeare, Chekhov, they are. You never get to the bottom of them. So if you go back thinking you've already played it well, you'll find new stuff to do.

[Simon Mayo]

How wonderful to still be looking for new stuff and still be improving and still getting great roles.

[Sir Ian McKellen]

What else am I going to do with my life?

[Simon Mayo]

Well, you could stand behind the bar.

[Sir Ian McKellen]

I used to run the quiz in the Monday night quiz here, and I took a day each week to think up the questions. And I was behind the bar and I loved doing it. But my partners, who had the license to the pub sacked me. They didn't think my performance was good enough. So I now come as an audience. But I had Derek Jacoby behind here doing the asking the questions with me. Pat Stewart was here.

[Simon Mayo]

Fantastic. Fantastic. Well, if I may be so bold, I would suggest that BAFTAs and Oscars might be on the cards. I know it's probably bad luck to talk about that kind of stuff, but this movie and your role in it just feels like it's got hit.

[Sir Ian McKellen]

Well, I'm very happy to hear that. Very happy, of course, but. And I have read the reviews because they send them to me, and I've never been in the show, which has had such universally words of approval a lot in America. I think that's because Soderbergh is such a fascinating director that the critics, experts on film, respond positively. We'll see if the public does, and they have done in America. It's been very good, but it's in English. It's written by an American, directed by an American. It's a London movie.

[Simon Mayo]

It is very much so.

[Sir Ian McKellen]

It couldn't be anywhere else. Julian is very English man. And the, the glimpses you see of London physically and, and, and the characters you feel. Yeah, this, this could not be set in Chicago or San Francisco or Sydney. It's, it's, it's a London movie as much as Manhattan is a movie about New York.

[Simon Mayo]

And it's a great film. Ian McKellen, thank you very much for talking to us.

[Sir Ian McKellen]

Thank you, Simon.

[Simon Mayo]

The always entertaining Sir Ian McKellen, talking about his new movie, the Christophers. It's going to be reviewed next week. We've both seen it, and I thought, I think you could tell from that conversation I really, really enjoyed it. It is a very, very Ian McKellen performance.

[Mark Kermode]

Yes. And without, without sort of blowing the surprise of the review next week. I think it is the most McKellen I've seen. And, and, and it's not giving a whole bunch away to say I, too, very much enjoyed it.

[Simon Mayo]

Yeah, he's just. It's just. It is. It is him.

[Mark Kermode]

It is impossible to think it's anyone else. How Much more Ian McKellen could it be? None. None. More Ian McKellen.

[Simon Mayo]

Okay, full review of the Christophers coming on next week's program. So let's talk about Legends then, because we. You've heard from Stephen Coogan. He was on last week's show. Because of all the various, you know, restrictions and embargoes, we. Mark wasn't allowed to review it, but he can now.

[Mark Kermode]

Yes. So this is the new Netflix series from Neil Forsyth, the author and screenwriter and creator of British television shows such as the Gold Guilt and Bob seven Independent. This is on Netflix, and you and I, I think, have both seen. Well, I've seen four episodes. How many did you see?

[Simon Mayo]

I think the same.

[Mark Kermode]

Yes. And at the point that we're recording this show, I am really desperate for more episodes to drop. So if you heard the Steve Coogan interview last week, you'll know some of this. If you didn't hear it, do go back and listen to it, because it's a great interview. So Legends is loosely based on a true story. Steve Coogan plays head of customs operations Don Clark in the early 90s in what Coogan in that interview referred to as the last hurrah of the Thatcher era, a period in which she needed a crisis she could solve. That crisis was seen to be the infamous war on drugs, specifically in the case of this heroin. So what we see is the government tasking Customs with stemming or stopping the flow of drugs into the uk, which is a very, very hard task and involves recruiting customs officers for special undercover assignment, despite the fact that these customs officers have no training in that area. So as Steve Coogan was saying, effectively, it's like taking people who are baggage handlers and saying to them, well, we'd like you to be undercover cops. Here is a clip in which Tom Hodges, high ranking civil servant, basically explains the mission.

[Simon Mayo]

For anyone who doesn't know me, I am Angus Blake, Director of investigations for Her Majesty's Customs. This is my head of operations, Don Clark.

[Sir Ian McKellen]

Right.

[Simon Mayo]

We're holding a three week top secret training program for new recruits and are looking throughout the agency for those who we think might offer us what we need to attempt something we've never done before. What's the investigation?

[Sir Ian McKellen]

Did you miss the secret bit?

[Simon Mayo]

For security reasons, only those who complete the three weeks will learn what the investigation entails. Would this be a promotion? For some it would technically be a demotion.

[Mark Kermode]

Where's the training?

[Simon Mayo]

It's a residential program. Is that overtime then?

[Mark Kermode]

No.

[Simon Mayo]

Well, if it's residential training, it has to be overtime.

[Sir Ian McKellen]

We can't take you if you're deaf, mate.

[Simon Mayo]

Would we get a per diem? A per what?

[Mark Kermode]

Lunch money.

[Sir Ian McKellen]

Lunch money. Why you 12?

[Simon Mayo]

If you've asked a question, then please leave the room.

[Mark Kermode]

I was laughing all the way through that and I could see you were too old. I know. Also the dour sound of Steve Cook going, which part of secret did you not understand so exactly. Ordinary people in extraordinary circumstances. And those ordinary people are played by such top notch talent as Tom Burke and Hayley Squires, both fabulously. As far as Don is concerned, which the character played by Steve Coogan, he's in charge of this operation. He has a sort of jaded, world weary view of life. And we learn over the episodes that I've seen so far that he has experience himself in having gone undercover. And we learned that in his own experience of going undercover, he found out what a toll that can take. So it's his job to help select and train the operatives to teach them to become legends. And the title, Legends, that refers to the identities that they have to assume as their alter egos. And the whole point is that in order for the alter ego thing to work, you have to believe in it. So you have to create a character that will stand up under scrutiny. And during the episodes you see that scrutiny being quite perilous. But it also means that you have to create a character that has the danger of taking over your life. You have to commit to it. I think the phrase that you use was that they have, they have to lean into it. And as I said, Steve Coogan's character already has experience how that can take over your life. And he knows that when he's recruiting these people who are effectively rookies in this area, that they're not all going to be able to walk away from it with ease. In fact, if they do their job properly, they're going to become immersed in a world that they have never encountered before and they're not just going to be able to leave it behind and go home. So there is a whole thing going on in this which is there is a commitment being made by these people who at the beginning don't know what it is. You know, what's the mission? Which part of secret didn't you understand? We'll only tell you what the mission is if you get through the training. But in doing that, in getting through the training and kind of becoming hooked on the mission, they are already committing to something that might have life changing consequences. So the story plays out between London, Liverpool, Turkey, which is where the drugs are coming from. You heard from that clip that a lot of the dialogue is kind of witty and satirical. I think the phrase that Steve Coogan used, he said, it's light. There is a lightness of touch. He had a brilliant phrase which was a stone skipping lightly over deep waters. Remember that?

[Simon Mayo]

Yeah, yeah, no, it's very. That, that works very well.

[Mark Kermode]

But I also think what he didn't quite flag up was how edge of the seat gripping some of it is. Which leads me to my complaint about episode four. Because when I saw that I'd been given four episodes, I thought the whole thing was four episodes long. So I binge watched the four episodes and was then really, really disappointed to find it that. No, not at the end. In fact, at the, at the end of episode four, it's like now, okay, I need to know what happens next.

[Simon Mayo]

You can't leave Bulldog Basil.

[Mark Kermode]

You can't leave Bulldog.

[Simon Mayo]

Preposterous.

[Mark Kermode]

Wow. So so far we've done a Fluff Freeman joke and a Basil Brush joke.

[Simon Mayo]

Yes, yes.

[Mark Kermode]

And last week we did Flanders and Swan and the Goon show.

[Simon Mayo]

More on that in take two.

[Mark Kermode]

Heaven's sake. In that interview that you did with Steve Gunn. I was in it, but I wasn't talking about the TV stuff. He was saying that, you know, that obviously, as far as the character is concerned, it's fairly close to home, certainly in terms of accent, although he did say that he sort of northerned it up a little bit. And he also used a fabulous phrase, which was that he said that there is a. There is this maxim in my profession, which is ready, fire, aim, which I absolutely love. But it also says something. It's not just about the technique of acting, but it's also something about the situation that these characters find themselves in. Ready, fire, aim. Is they sort of train for this thing and get approved, and then they're told what it is, and they're only really aiming at the point that they're on the job. So I was swept up in it. I was really swept up in it. I mean, yes, it's witty. Yes, it's. You know, and saying, as I said, listening to that clip, then there were a couple of really good laughs in it. But it's also really gripping. Tom Burke is amazing, but he's amazing in everything. Hayley Spies is amazing in everything. And I think for. For Coogan, this is a really interesting role because although there are comedic elements to the drum, it's a straight role. And he was saying in his interview with you that that later life has brought him more interesting roles. And I think that's true. I think he's got to the point now when he is getting these kind of naughty, slightly gnarly characters, and he's doing it really well. I mean, he has a resting, dour face. That's exactly right. But I don't want to underpay just the how. I know whether you agree with this, but I found there were several sequences in it which I thought were really properly edge of your seat tension.

[Simon Mayo]

Yes. And because, again, we mentioned it in the interview, undercover is something that we've seen done many, many times.

[Sir Ian McKellen]

Yeah.

[Simon Mayo]

But it's always trained cops or spies or something, so they know what they're doing. These people really don't. I mean, they're pretty. They're good. But they've had, you know, a couple of minutes of training, and then all of a sudden they're on a stakeout. And so you. And you. So therefore you thinking that that's me. You know, you empathize with them in a way that you would never do with a spy or a cop, I think.

[Mark Kermode]

Yeah, absolutely. And. And that whole thing about. By the time they know what it is that they're being required to do. They are already doing it. So although yes, there is the there is the whole thing about you have to volunteer for this. They don't know what they're volunteering for. And at the point that they are, that they're agreeing, they're already in it. And no, I'm I, I really enjoyed it and I really want the rest of the episodes to drop now, please.

[Simon Mayo]

Legends is new on Netflix. Let us know what you think. Correspondence.com well, let's tread lightly then. Mark has been entertaining us and making us chortle all the way through the show, but now it's the real hardcore stuff we step with Gay abandoned into the much loved laughter Lift Foreign. Hey, Mark.

[Mark Kermode]

Hey, son.

[Simon Mayo]

What do you call a bovine French philosopher? You're right, Albert Camus. I jumped in because you'd have probably worked that out very, very quickly.

[Sir Ian McKellen]

Okay, good.

[Simon Mayo]

I went to the doctors this week for a digestion issue and she asked me for a stool sample. I'm way ahead of you, Doctor, I said. And I pulled out a Ziploc bag full of tiny seats without back support or armrests and she threw me out. I still have no idea why I'm pooping out tiny items of furniture. Time to change doctors, I think. But Mark, did you hear about the bloke who collapsed trying to climb Mount Everest?

[Mark Kermode]

I didn't.

[Simon Mayo]

Authorities just found Himalayan there.

[Mark Kermode]

That's quite good.

[Simon Mayo]

It's all right. That's as good as it gets anyway. What, still? What's still to come? Page 12 Mortal Kombat with a K2 starring Carl Urban. Is it that one?

[Mark Kermode]

Sorry, Carl with a K. Urban on the way.

[Simon Mayo]

So, Morton Combat with a K in just a moment. Dom from London first of all, dear Slaty Bartfast and the Hippopotamus, Long term listener, second time email. I think we promoted this from Take two. I've always enjoyed the references to Flanders and Swan and Douglas Adams on the podcast, and the evident affection you hold for these giants of British comedy. Usually I'm content to chuckle along, but last week's show prompted me to write not only for the rare double sighting of Flanders and Swan and Hitchhiker's Guide, but for Mark's claim that Simon's Canother Camus gag only applies to quote very, very old listeners, While I'm not trying to while I'm not going to cancel my subscription in offense, I want you to know you have at least one listener in his early 30s who's caught every allusion to the gnu, the Hippopotamus, Deep Thought and slaty Bartfast. Thanks to tapes and CDs played relentlessly by my parents, I've been devoted to both Flanders and Swan and hitchhikers since childhood. Two examples illustrate this. At 11, I entered my school talent contest not with violin or yo yo tricks, but an unaccompanied from memory performance of the Gas Man Cometh to a baffled hall of children. The applause was fitful, but I somehow won first prize. Still a point of pride. And the Gas Man Cometh is a famous Flanas and Swan song. I think it was even like a hit. Like it was on a. It was a 45. And during a pshe lesson on the Life Education Bus. I didn't know there was such a thing as a. Did you have a Life Education Bus in your day, Mark?

[Mark Kermode]

I've never heard of such a thing, no.

[Simon Mayo]

Anyway, Dom from London has traveled on the Life Education Bus. I was asked what alcohol was, and I replied via the Encyclopedia Galactica. A colorless volatile liquid intoxicating to certain carbon based life forms. Which is Doug Sam's. An awkward silence followed the teacher staring at me with an apparent combination of bemusement and fear. Eventually she gathered herself and I wasn't called on to answer any more questions for the remainder of the class. So keep up the good work. At least one millennial knows exactly what you're on about. Up with mud. Glorious mud and down with Vogue on poetry. All the best, Don from London. Okay, well, very good. Let's. Let's assume that our gags from the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s are all understood by everybody.

[Mark Kermode]

Can I. What's the name of the. What's the name of the cocktail in Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy? The effect of which is like having your brain smashed out by a slice of lemon wrapped around a gold brick.

[Simon Mayo]

Yes, you'll have to look it up.

[Mark Kermode]

It's called. I can't remember what it Is. It's a regular feature. I used to be able to do the whole of the. You know. Oh, thy micturations are to me like Goebbels lurgy bludges on a slurgy. Be froop, I implore thee, and hooptiously drangle me with. Remember that. There's the Vogon poetry.

[Simon Mayo]

And then at the end. What's the cocktail?

[Mark Kermode]

Shall I look it up?

[Simon Mayo]

I'm looking it up.

[Mark Kermode]

Okay.

[Simon Mayo]

Pan Galactic Gargle Blaster.

[Mark Kermode]

Pan Galactic Gargle Blaster. The Pan Galactic Gargle Blaster. The effect of which is like having your brain smashed out with a slice of lemon wrapped around a gold brick. Perfect, incidentally, avoided very quickly.

[Simon Mayo]

Yes.

[Mark Kermode]

If you are a fan of the Flanders and Swan, and if you are a fan of, you know, the stuff that we've been talking about, there is a. An LP which I think you could probably download called Hoffnung at the Oxford Union.

[Sir Ian McKellen]

Oh yeah.

[Mark Kermode]

Which is Gerard Hoffnung at the Oxford Union in 1958, which is one of the funniest things I have ever heard. And that's. That's got amazing stuff on it that if you love Flanders and Swan, you will love Hoffnung, the Oxford Union. Which begins with him coming on stage and saying, I am Gerard Hoffnung. Gerard after my father and Hoffnung after Gerard.

[Simon Mayo]

There you go. And this is not. This is classic kind of 1950s comedy which actually still holds up.

[Mark Kermode]

It really does. Really, Really.

[Simon Mayo]

A century later. Okay, so Mortal Kombat with a K. Off we go.

[Mark Kermode]

Yeah. So the Mortal Kombat video game series came to the cinema first in the mid-90s during that wave of very, very terrible mid-90s video game adaptations which included the Bob Hoskins Super Mario Brothers and Street Fighter. And I remember reviewing it when it came out because I think we must have been at Radio 1 together. I said that by comparison with those other movies, the original Mortal Kombat, which was. It was Paul W.S. anderson and Chris Lambert, it wasn't bad. I mean, it wasn't great, but it wasn't terrible. And then there was the sequel which was a flop and that kind of killed off the franchise. And then in 2021, when we were now in sort of the current way that we do the show, there was a new Mortal Kombat movie Directed by Simon McQuoid and it was co produced by James Wan Sore and Insidious, co written by Greg Russo. And it sort of. It kind of breathed new life into the franchise. He had Lewis Tan as Cole Young, who's a cage fighter who finds himself drawn into this world that is explained to him by Jessica McNamee's Sonya Blade. And so that was quite good. And it was like, okay, fine, this is getting closer to the ethos of the video game. So now Sonya Blade is back in Mortal Kombat 2, which is written by Jeremy Slater, as is Cole, as is Josh Lawson's impressively obnoxious Kano, who's the loud mouthed Australian. There is any other kind of Australian who got all the best lines in the first film. So the first film, if I remember correctly, it ended with Cole going off in search of Johnny Cage. Now the reason I remember something about this was there was a whole bunch of stuff around the first film about why Johnny Cage wasn't in it. And we were told that the reason Johnny Cage wasn't in it was because he was a giant personality in inverted commas that would throw the film out of balance. Well, here that giant personality is played by Carl with a K. Urban, whose Johnny Cage we meet as a washed up B movie actor failing to sell his old movies at fan conventions. He was once a great black belt fighter, then he became a movie star who fought battles while wearing black sunglasses looking like a, you know, like, like Tom Cruise in Risky Business. Now he's a nobody. Except apparently to the gods of fate who decide that he is the person who is needed to join the champions of EarthRealm, which is in danger of falling into the hands of evil Shao Kahn. Here is a clip from the movie. Now, I should say this clip actually comes from very near the end of the movie, but it's not a plot spoiler, it's just an indication of the general tone.

[Simon Mayo]

You want to know what makes a hero? That's not destiny, it's not something you're born with. It's searching for greatness.

[Sir Ian McKellen]

Johnny Cage, you have been chosen for

[Simon Mayo]

Mortal Kombat, then realizing you've had it in you this entire time.

[Mark Kermode]

There we go. And then there are some gags. So the cast now also includes Tati Gabriel and Adeline Rudolph as Jade and Kitana respectively, which fulfills the fact the director had said from the previous film, if I do another one, I'm going to go deeper into the mythology and also I'm going to have more female characters, which this does. So as with the 2021 reboot, this is impressively blood splattered. There's lots of kind of squishy violence, there's lots of gratuitous, I mean, albeit CGI gratuitous gore, or at least as much of it as you can get away with in a 15 certificate film. I mean the age of the video nast is this would have been prosecuted under the Obscene Publications Act. Now it is 15 for strong bloody violence, infrequent very strong language. So it's got the. The same thing that the first one had. I mean the script is witty, I have to say. I think Karl Urban is great, but Urban and Lawson in playing things for laughs, they hit many good home runs. I laughed quite a few times. As for the action, there's lots of that thing that you do in the video games in which people jump or fall completely unconvincingly from one level to another. But in a way that's kind of okay because it sort of makes sense in terms of the origin story. There's an array of entertaining weaponry, including robot arms, laser eyes, smashy hammers, fighty sticks, and most remarkably, bitey hats. The production design is sort of like the. The Mad Max movie meets Warcraft the movie. And under two hours, the whole thing doesn't outstay its welcome. Now, I saw this in an. In a multimedia screening. They had a national press show, which was one that was just for critics, but because. Because of the way that the day worked out yesterday, I saw it in a multimedia, which means there's a whole bunch of people, and when you go in, they sort of give you like a bucket of popcorn. Like literally a bucket of popcorn which has got the collectible bucket. And. And it seemed to play really well with the audience. And despite the fact that it was later in the evening, which is always a pain for me because then I've got to get the train back. Afterwards, I found the time skipped by and I enjoyed it. I laughed quite a few times. I thought that the squishy gore was fun. I mean, 10 minutes afterwards, it was hard to remember much significant about it. So I made my notes immediately. But I thought it was generally smashy bashy fun.

[Simon Mayo]

When you started talking about. I did think you were talking about Keith Urban, not Carl Urban.

[Mark Kermode]

Oh, Keith Urban.

[Sir Ian McKellen]

Yeah.

[Simon Mayo]

That's a very different country singer. Married to Nicole Kidman for 20 years.

[Mark Kermode]

Him. Yes.

[Simon Mayo]

So it's not him.

[Mark Kermode]

Not him. Not him. Carl Urban. Carl Urban.

[Simon Mayo]

Is there any country in western music in this at all?

[Mark Kermode]

No. At least, no. Not off the top of my head. No, I don't believe so. No.

[Simon Mayo]

I interviewed him once many years ago back at. I think it was Radio 2 and.

[Mark Kermode]

Keith or Cole?

[Simon Mayo]

Keith, definitely Keith Urban. And the plugger, the record promotions guy who was with him kept on saying to me, you can't call him a country artist. You mustn't mention country because he's crossover. You know, he's. He's a pop star. You can't mention his country. So I went, okay, fine, whatever. So, you know, play a song. Keith Urban, not Carl Urban. Welcome to the show. You know, how would you describe your record? And he says, well, it's a country record, really. Okay, there you go. See, it's absolutely fine. He was absolutely, perfectly fine. With reference to country. And it was just the promotions. They were trying to make him as a crossover artist.

[Mark Kermode]

Anyway, when I interviewed Angelina Jolie for the Culture show, I was told, you cannot mention hackers and you cannot mention her relationship with. Oh, heaven's sake. Him. From hackers? No, no, no. From train spotting. You know, squeeze. Pardon me, Glenn Tilbrook.

[Simon Mayo]

Christian.

[Mark Kermode]

No, not Glenn Tilbrook. Sorry. I'm literally having a senior moment. People listening to this will hear Mark having a senior moment. Is going to look up. What's the name of the guy? Johnny Lee Miller. Okay. He said, you can't mention hackers and you can't mention Johnny Lee Miller. And literally, to whom? You know, Angelina. I think she was married to him and Angelina Jolie, almost. The first thing she said was, I hear you're a fan of hackers. I love that film. I met my first husband on that film.

[Simon Mayo]

There you go. Exactly right. What a good film that is. And I mean, it was because they've got the playout track on the soundtrack.

[Sir Ian McKellen]

They have.

[Mark Kermode]

Absolutely. That's right. Yes, yes. He was married to Angelina Jolie 1996-2000. And she brought it up and she was very delighted to talk about it. And I said, I love that film. She's great. So do I.

[Simon Mayo]

Before we're done, let's do a quick what's on then. Thank you very much indeed for the audio and video stuff that's coming in. We have one here from Alex Garrett. Hello. Mark and Simon, love the podcast. Hope you can do a shout out for our play at Brighton Fringe this year. Sherlock Holmes versus Arsen Lupin, A drag crime caper. It's a new comedy pitting England's most famous consulting detective against France's most infamous gentleman burglar. And it's running from the 16th to the 21st of May at Brighton Fringe. We hope we can see you there. Thank you so much. Well, thank you very much. Sherlock Holmes versus Arsene Lupin. A drag crime caper. Brighton Fringe, 16th to 21st May. Okay, so that is it for this week. This has been a Sony Music Entertainment production. This week's team was Jen, Eric, Josh, Heather and Dom. Before we go, thanks to Jeff Bartrup for letting us know about an old engineering colleague, Ian Deeley, who passed away recently. He will be missed, but thanks very much for telling us about that. The redactor to the show was, as ever, Simon Poole, who was here this week.

[Mark Kermode]

Week.

[Simon Mayo]

And if you're not following the pod already, please do so wherever you get your podcast, come and join us on Patreon for all the good stuff there. Mark, what is your film of the week?

[Mark Kermode]

My film of the week is the Sheep Detectives and that those are not words I ever thought I would say out loud.

[Simon Mayo]

So say. Say that sentence again.

[Mark Kermode]

My film of the week, Simon, is the Sheep Detectives.

[Simon Mayo]

Excellent correspondence, Kevin. Mayor.com is where you take part in the show. Also on Patreon, I will bestow a year's ultra membership to our Correspondent of the week, who I think has to be Dom from London. The Douglas Adams and Flanders and Swan references. Go, go. Thank you very much indeed for listening. There is another take which has landed alongside this one. When Mother's Day means celebrating your mom, your wife, maybe even your daughter as a new mom. Trust 1-800-FLOWERS to help you celebrate. Celebrate every important woman in your life with double blooms from 1-800-Flowers. Order one dozen roses and get another dozen for free.

[Mark Kermode]

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[Simon Mayo]

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