Tommy Vietor on Why Trump Won the 2024 Election - Full Interview

Summary

KFC Radio: Tommy Vietor on Why Trump Won the 2024 Election - Full Interview

Release Date: February 4, 2025

In this episode of KFC Radio, hosted by Kevin Clancy, John Lovett, and Jack McCarthy, the discussion centers around the surprising victory of Donald Trump in the 2024 election. The conversation delves deep into the dynamics of political engagement, media influence, and the strategies employed by both the Republican and Democratic parties. Below is a comprehensive summary capturing the essence of the episode.

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1. Political Polarization and Voter Engagement

The hosts kick off the discussion by addressing the disconnect in political engagement among voters. John Lovett emphasizes that the biggest gap is between those who are highly attentive to politics and those who are disengaged, not due to intelligence or moral shortcomings, but often because of busy lifestyles.

• John Lovett [00:09]: “The biggest disconnect in politics is people who pay a lot of attention and then people who pay no attention.”

This divide has significant implications for election outcomes, as casual engagement can sway undecided voters through relatable content.

• John Lovett [00:15]: “You see Trump serving McDonald's on TikTok and you're like, oh, that's funny, that's relatable. I like him. And that's how people vote.”

2. Trump’s Relatability and Media Strategy

Donald Trump’s ability to connect with the average voter is highlighted as a pivotal factor in his 2024 victory. His presence on platforms like TikTok showcases a relatable and humorous image that resonates with a broad audience.

• John Lovett [00:25]: “And that's how people vote.”

The discussion points out that Trump's unconventional media strategies, such as engaging directly with audiences through social media antics, have reinforced his appeal as an "everyman" candidate.

3. Challenges Faced by the Democratic Party

The hosts critique the Democratic Party's strategies and their inability to effectively engage with a significant portion of the electorate. John Lovett recounts his experiences working on Obama’s campaigns and how the party struggled to adapt post-Obama.

• John Lovett [06:35]: “We were trying to pitch a show. You guys have gone through this process of when you're in LA and you're trying to pitch shows with people and you do call like the couch and water circuit...”

He suggests that the party's focus on internal issues and establishing progressive media has not translated into broader voter support.

4. The Role of Media and Social Media in Politics

The conversation delves into the impact of media and social media on political polarization. The hosts discuss how platforms like Fox News and social media algorithms exacerbate divisions by promoting partisan content and echo chambers.

• John Lovett [14:13]: “Joe Biden decided that was because that emboldened him. And then he kept going.”

They argue that the media landscape has shifted politics into a realm where attention and popularity overshadow substantive policy discussions.

5. Cancel Culture and Its Impact

Cancel culture is a recurring theme, with the hosts debating its role in political discourse. They acknowledge that while cancel culture is often portrayed as partisan, it affects both sides and stifles open conversation.

• John Lovett [29:06]: “Like, I don't like that either.”

The hosts express frustration over the inability to discuss important issues without falling into extremes of being labeled or censored.

6. Strategies for Democrats to Reach Broader Audiences

John Lovett proposes that the Democratic Party needs to revamp its communication strategies to be more relatable and focused on issues that matter to everyday voters, such as inflation and immigration, rather than solely on cultural battles.

• John Lovett [69:13]: “And I think we have a bench, like someone you guys might really like is Wes Moore...”

He emphasizes the importance of authentic engagement and addressing voters' genuine concerns to build trust and support.

7. Age and Leadership in Politics

A significant portion of the discussion revolves around the age of political leaders and its implications. The hosts critique the aged leadership within the Democratic Party, arguing that younger, more dynamic candidates are needed to appeal to a changing electorate.

• John Lovett [43:42]: “An entire industry digging up dirt on you... it's terrible.”

They advocate for introducing younger leaders who can better relate to contemporary issues and voter sentiments.

8. Executive Orders and Policy Implementations

The hosts examine the use of executive orders by presidents to implement policy changes when legislative support is lacking. They discuss how both Trump and Biden have used executive orders to shape their administrations' agendas, albeit within the constraints of existing laws.

• John Lovett [44:30]: “Like, you are telling the government how to implement laws that exist. You can't like create new laws...”

This segment underscores the limitations and effectiveness of executive orders in the current political environment.

9. Internal Politics and Barstool’s Experience

The conversation shifts to the internal dynamics of Barstool Sports and its interactions with the broader media and political landscape. The hosts recount challenges in maintaining authentic discourse amidst external pressures and internal drama.

• Jack McCarthy [107:16]: “It's always how it works…”

They highlight the difficulty of balancing entertainment with substantive political discussions in a media-driven world.

10. The Future of Political Engagement

Wrapping up, the hosts ponder the future of political engagement in an increasingly polarized and media-saturated society. They express hope for a renewed focus on genuine leadership and policy-driven politics that can bridge the divide and address the nation's pressing issues.

• John Lovett [122:00]: “I think you're. I think you got...”

They advocate for a conscious effort to foster unity and informed voter participation to navigate the complexities of modern politics.

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Notable Quotes

• John Lovett [00:09]: “The biggest disconnect in politics is people who pay a lot of attention and then people who pay no attention.”

• John Lovett [00:15]: “You see Trump serving McDonald's on TikTok and you're like, oh, that's funny, that's relatable. I like him. And that's how people vote.”

• John Lovett [06:35]: “We were trying to pitch a show. You guys have gone through this process of when you're in LA and you're trying to pitch shows with people…”

• John Lovett [14:13]: “Joe Biden decided that was because that emboldened him. And then he kept going.”

• Kevin Clancy [38:02]: “But I guess you want to do the honorable thing and like not play into that or you want to win because you got to get dirty if you want those people to, to, to you know, back you or join you or whatever.”

• John Lovett [69:13]: “And I think we have a bench, like someone you guys might really like is Wes Moore...”

• John Lovett [43:42]: “An entire industry digging up dirt on you... it's terrible.”

---

Conclusion

This episode of KFC Radio provides an insightful exploration into the factors that contributed to Donald Trump's unexpected victory in the 2024 election. Through candid discussions, the hosts shed light on the importance of relatability, the impact of media strategies, and the challenges faced by the Democratic Party in an era of heightened polarization. The conversation underscores the need for authentic engagement and policy-focused leadership to navigate the evolving political landscape.

Listeners gain a nuanced understanding of the interplay between media influence, voter behavior, and party strategies, offering valuable perspectives for those seeking to comprehend the complexities of modern American politics.

Transcript

[Kevin Clancy]

Hey, KFC Radio listeners. You can find every episode of KFC Radio on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or YouTube Prime. Members can listen ad free on Amazon Music.

[John Lovett]

The biggest disconnect in politics is people who pay a lot of attention and then people who pay no attention.

[Kevin Clancy]

Huge gap.

[John Lovett]

And not because they're bad or dumb or like they're busy. And so like, you see Trump serving McDonald's on TikTok and you're like, oh, that's funny, that's relatable. I like him. And that's how people vote.

[Kevin Clancy]

Foreign.

[Jack McCarthy]

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[John Lovett]

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[Kevin Clancy]

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[John Lovett]

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[Kevin Clancy]

Drawings terms jackpocket.com tos/free ticket-promo slash. We were just saying though, how like, it's cold out here. Yes, but there's no chance of hurricanes, earthquakes and fires.

[John Lovett]

Yeah.

[Kevin Clancy]

And it's like people hate the cold so goddamn much that they're willing to live in like guaranteed danger zones. Just because I don't want to be cold.

[Jack McCarthy]

I mean, that's like everywhere else in the world, but. Or in the country except for New England or I guess I'll extend it to the Northeast. The environment's actively trying to kill you.

[Kevin Clancy]

There's no tornadoes, no hurricanes and no earthquakes and there's no fires. But you Will have to put on a jacket. Yeah.

[John Lovett]

People are like, nope, minor.

[Kevin Clancy]

Give me an uninsurable house, please.

[John Lovett]

Yeah, that's going to be a real issue. I mean, the fire stuff was no joke. Like, yeah, it's crazy. If it was just me, I'd be fine. Or just me and my wife. We have two little kids. And like, finally on Wednesday night, like, it started in the Hollywood Hills. It was kind of near us, and we're like, let's get out of here. We just panicked.

[Jack McCarthy]

Was it like. Like when you were leaving, was it. I'm picturing Independence Day. It was like that.

[John Lovett]

It was like apocalyptic. Like 7 o'clock, it's completely dark out. You're driving one way. You get on the five, which is like one of the main freeways. The whole other side is just like emergency vehicles going 100 miles an hour. The other direction, you're kind of sitting there and you're just imagining your death, which is roasting in a car on the freeway.

[Kevin Clancy]

Yeah, well, I mean, everybody abandoned their cars, right? They had to, like, plow through the cars.

[John Lovett]

Yeah.

[Jack McCarthy]

So I was kind of fun. But like, a little part of it's like, this is kind of exciting.

[Kevin Clancy]

It's almost like. Like when. When I remember when Sandy and her Hurricane Sandy came through, there was like, it was like an adult snow day. Like, everyone everyone knew was coming. Get your booze, get your snacks. Like, evacuate and go stay with your friend who's uptown. And you, like, hunker down. Maybe you lose power. It was like, fun. And I remember even, like we were on like, the Upper east side, and I was like, this thing's a bus. Like, didn't even. Not even a problem. Then you find out, you know, like half a queens and broke broken water. You're like, oh, okay, never mind. It's not that fun.

[John Lovett]

You know, there's not a covet. You're doing puzzles. Buddies. Yeah, one of my buddies, Boston guy, lost his house burned to the ground in the Palisades. And it's now starting to get to the point on the group chat where one of our other friends is starting to with him and being like, that's a great.

[Kevin Clancy]

How long do you.

[John Lovett]

We're all just like, how's this going to go?

[Jack McCarthy]

It was so my. My buddy lives out in, I don't know, the hills. He lives somewhere like that. And I texted him like, the next day and I was like, yo, you all good? And he was like, yeah, but it was crazy. Like, from my house, I could watch because I think he said, he watched like, I don't know the number, but let's call it 5,000acres burn or whatever it was. He's like, I was watching a football field catch on fire every three minutes or something.

[John Lovett]

That's about right. Yeah.

[Jack McCarthy]

And I was like, holy, that's crazy.

[John Lovett]

So New York's not so bad.

[Kevin Clancy]

It's like, yo. Yeah, there's like a lot weird people on the subway and it's cold and it's, it's pretty dirty, but it's not actively on fire.

[John Lovett]

It's good time, good stuff.

[Kevin Clancy]

So. Yeah, but so as a, as a Boston guy went. So you, you went out, what you say, seven or eight years ago?

[John Lovett]

Yeah, I got to LA in 2017. I was in DC until 2015.

[Kevin Clancy]

And you became a one.

[John Lovett]

Been so soft my whole life.

[Jack McCarthy]

Yeah, you're in good company. This jacket wasn't earned. This was vintaged stolen Malor.

[John Lovett]

I always hear fights plug and plays. I'm like, oh, what a nice, you know, cultured guy.

[Jack McCarthy]

God, culture.

[Kevin Clancy]

I don't know about that.

[Jack McCarthy]

I don't know.

[Kevin Clancy]

You are, you know, you're jet setting around to Italy now and you're an actor. Maybe you are cultured now.

[Jack McCarthy]

I, I would actually, I would, I would. I'll accept culture. Yeah, I was. I think I'm a culture.

[Kevin Clancy]

You go to Broadway.

[Jack McCarthy]

If you said I was a smart person, I'd correct you. But if cultured, I'll take cultured also.

[Kevin Clancy]

Impl. Like, I don't think most cultured people will like fall asleep with ice cream on their chest.

[Jack McCarthy]

Correct.

[Kevin Clancy]

So like, whatever. You're cultured and that.

[Jack McCarthy]

Yeah.

[Kevin Clancy]

That's what you are.

[John Lovett]

I think your spin is you set the culture. Because I think I remember, I remember dming you in like 2015 and just be. I don't think we knew each other ever met, but I was like, Look, I'm a 40 something guy from Boston, right? Like, I grew up like barstool has been a part of my life forever. And I like knew of you guys and had that weird parasocial thing going on. I was like, do you ever think to yourself, I woke up one day, tweeted, Saturdays are for the boys, and no one has stopped saying it for like three years. And my boss sold like how many million dollars worth of merch off of this one thing I overheard.

[Jack McCarthy]

I would, I would. Honestly, I don't know. I would guess. This is a complete guess. I have no idea. I would guess 10 to 15 million.

[John Lovett]

Yeah.

[Jack McCarthy]

Yeah, dude. Oh, really?

[Kevin Clancy]

I was gonna guess like A hundred?

[Jack McCarthy]

Really?

[Kevin Clancy]

Yeah, bro. Saturday the Boys has been around for a long. I mean, Foreplay has probably made 10 or 15 million dollars off of Saturday for the Boys.

[Jack McCarthy]

That's a bummer.

[Kevin Clancy]

Dave used to always say that like, that. Like, that Saturday for the Boys, like, funded the New York office. Like, that's what. Like. Yeah, I think it's made $10 million.

[Jack McCarthy]

Oh, okay.

[Kevin Clancy]

That was. That was, like, a phenomenon. And it was kind of going on with Viva Stool as well. Like, Saturdays of the Boys kind of, like, took what people was. Yeah, because Viva Stool, we had this thing where people would make signs in.

[John Lovett]

Certain places, like game day or something.

[Kevin Clancy]

Yeah, yeah. But it. It started out, like, at a Red Sox game. Fine. Viva Stool. And then all of a sudden, it was like, oh, there's, like, some troops overseas who did it. Like, that's cool. And then I remember it made it to the Buckingham palace when. I guess it was the wedding.

[Jack McCarthy]

It was Kate's wedding.

[Kevin Clancy]

Yeah, the royal wedding. And it was just like, somebody, like, popped in the corner. Like that little guy on Mortal Kombat. Toasty. He's like, popped it instead. Vivo stool. And I was like, no way. That. And then it made it to the Christ the Redeemer statue in Rio.

[John Lovett]

Nice.

[Kevin Clancy]

And I was like, this. There's something going on here. And then it went crazy then. I mean, there's been a Viva Stool in every major spot, like, in the world, you know? And then Saturday for the Boys was kind of the vocal version of that.

[Jack McCarthy]

Like, that was. It was almost like it was not brand specific. It was. It could just be.

[Kevin Clancy]

That's why.

[Jack McCarthy]

Yeah.

[Kevin Clancy]

Nobody likes. Not nobody, but, like, half the people did not know it was barstool.

[Jack McCarthy]

Right.

[Kevin Clancy]

They just thought, you know. But I remember that started like, you know, maybe some of the patriots say it. It's like, okay, that makes sense. But all of a sudden, like, Bill Clinton saying, really? Adams, I think, Right. He or somebody said, hey, Bill, like, what are Saturdays for the Boys? And he said, like, yeah, you know.

[Jack McCarthy]

There'S a lot of, like, political people who got weird into, like. It was super weird for us.

[Kevin Clancy]

Like a politician, like, trying to, like, be, like, young, hip, and cool by like, adopting some of their. Their. That would never happen. Right?

[John Lovett]

Never happens.

[Jack McCarthy]

I also like how I said I like. It's all I've been thinking about since I said it, how casually I was. Like, it was Kate's wedding. Like, I was invited girl. I think that was when Kate tied the knot.

[Kevin Clancy]

But, yeah, that was. That was. That was probably the first Thing where I was really like, whoa, there's something bigger going on here.

[John Lovett]

Viral.

[Kevin Clancy]

Yeah, stuff.

[Jack McCarthy]

When have you had that with pod save? Like, obviously you have a million different times.

[John Lovett]

But like, it was weird. Like, we were doing it with the ringer. It was a hobby.

[Jack McCarthy]

Like the ringer at first.

[John Lovett]

Yeah, it was called keeping it 1600. It was like John and Dan started this thing. We were trying to pitch a show. You guys have gone through this process of when you're in LA and you're trying to pitch shows with people and you do call like the couch and water circuit where you have meetings when everyone's having a great time and they tell you you should work together and nothing.

[Kevin Clancy]

We were such suckers, dude.

[John Lovett]

I got crushed.

[Kevin Clancy]

We did not know that. That was like, everybody has good meetings, you know, I was like, we. We're going to get like 10 shows. We're going to be on every network, we're going to be in every movie. We're going to like, we crushed it ever again.

[Jack McCarthy]

It's so funny you say like the. I've never heard that before. The couch and water.

[Kevin Clancy]

Exactly what it is, right?

[Jack McCarthy]

Because like, we did it. We only did one day and we probably went to 5, 6, 700 meters. And by the last one, like the first one, I walked in and I was like, so polite and so like, oh, wow, this is crazy. By the time we went to last one, I was like, where's my water?

[John Lovett]

Shine my shoes?

[Jack McCarthy]

Like, it was. It was literally the water. I was like, I have a water bottle at every meeting I've gone to. How is there not a water bottle?

[Kevin Clancy]

Had some meeting with HBO Showtime, and they were talking about Shameless at the time was like popping. And the bartender was going to wear Saturdays for the boys gear. And somehow the Rock, there was something mentioned of the Rock wearing it.

[Jack McCarthy]

They were going to do for Hobbs and Shaw, right? And I was so comfortable by that point that I was pitching them ideas. I was like, another size of the boys. Let's talk turkey right now. I'll come on the movie. I'll help write the movie for you.

[Kevin Clancy]

Wait, so you were doing that?

[John Lovett]

Well, there's two versions of that. Like me and Jon Favreau, my co host, we wrote a script. We thought it was going to get made because why wouldn't it all work out for us? And you just like slowly die, right? Like your soul just has like a potato peeler just scraping away, right? Six months later, they're like, no. So that happened and then you go into some rooms and you just talk to people like, they're like, what is real politics? Like? And you kind of like give them notes and stuff. But then we went, we wanted to do a TV show and it wasn't working out. So John and Dan did a couple episodes for the Ringer for keeping a 1600. Then we added a second episode. And like, I was doing it from San Francisco at the time. It was just something we were doing for fun. And then the election happens. Hillary loses, Trump wins. We're kind of like crushed by how shocked we were and how wrong we were in everything we predicted in that election. Like everybody and we were like, okay, we feel guilty. The media is up. It was terrible to like try to watch, to get information about the 2016 election. You turn on CNN and there'd be like a panel of like nine idiots telling you nothing interesting. And you'd be like depressed and not informed. And you're like, these people are speaking like a broken language, you know what I mean? It's just like talking points, yelling at each other. So we're like, let's start a thing. And we thought leaving the ringer we would, it would take us like six months to kind of like get back on our feet. But we were just so lucky with the timing. Oh yeah. Of starting in 2017, that it exploded pretty quick and worked out.

[Kevin Clancy]

Yeah, Trump's the best thing to ever happen to you guys.

[John Lovett]

Every once in a while, like an agent meeting that was like a, like a couch and water thing where they'd be like, yeah, but if Trump wins again, it's good for you. I'm like, I don't think you understand. I don't think people are going to be like paying attention this time the way they were the first time. I think people are going to be a little broken.

[Jack McCarthy]

Have you noticed that?

[John Lovett]

I think people are broken right now at least. The Democratic side is kind of like, we're a mess, we're a disaster. What do we do?

[Kevin Clancy]

Yeah, you guys are like the team right now that like, it's probably like the bills in the 90s where they just like couldn't get over the hump and you're just like, well, why do we.

[John Lovett]

It's a rebuild, you know what I mean? Yeah, fire the code.

[Jack McCarthy]

It's a top down rebuild.

[Kevin Clancy]

Yeah, you got it, you got it. You got to fire the concessions, gut.

[John Lovett]

Them, you know, and it's our own fault. Like the Democratic Party elections are a choice and you can't just be anti one guy. You have to give people something and we were like, hey, here's this guy. He is clearly way too old to be elected for four more years, but we're going to try to shove this down your throat and then that debate happens. And like, yes, he eventually dropped out, but it took months and months and it was just a mess. And it was like, did you know it?

[Kevin Clancy]

Like, as soon as he was up.

[John Lovett]

There, you're like, oh, fuck, five minutes in. I was like, it's the worst debate.

[Jack McCarthy]

I, I couldn't even watch because, like, I, I'm, I do not like Donald Trump and I'm voting for whoever is Democrat. And I was like, I just knew. And I was like, I came from, like, I was like, I got to be able to, to earnestly say, I still think he can do it. So in order to do that, I can't watch.

[Kevin Clancy]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, you, if you had even a slight brain, you're just like, no, it's giving. And so do you think, you think it was his, like, his ego and hubris that, like, or like, like, so how, how does that, how does the force out process happen? Like, who, like, led that charge? Somebody has to be like, okay, we go.

[John Lovett]

Yeah. So to like, what happened? I think he ran. He suggested he was going to be a transitional figure, someone else was going to take over. Then the midterm elections happen. Democrats do way better than expected and better than, like, historical norms. Like, usually you lose seats in the midterms. Democrats won seats mostly because, like, Trump convinced people like Herschel Walker to run in Georgia was like, no. Yeah, right.

[Kevin Clancy]

Yeah.

[John Lovett]

Joe Biden decided that was because that emboldened him. And then he kept going. Right. So that was how that part went down. And then the force him out process was like, anyone who watched the debate with eyeballs was like, this is not working.

[Kevin Clancy]

Yeah.

[John Lovett]

And it took members of Congress time. Like, initially they tried to go to the White House and be like, hey, you need to make a change. This is not working. The White House ignored them. Then they got polling back and they finally went to Biden was like, we're gonna get wiped out. It's not just gonna be you, it's gonna be senators in blue states. It's going to be like 60 members of the House. Like, you're going to take down the whole party. And I think like Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer and those kind of leaders were the ones who eventually got him to step aside.

[Kevin Clancy]

Crazy.

[Jack McCarthy]

But at first he was like, I got this, though diverse.

[John Lovett]

They were like, you, I'm staying In.

[Kevin Clancy]

Yeah.

[John Lovett]

Settled issue.

[Jack McCarthy]

I think I saw. I think it was Favreau. I forget. But someone kind of had like, a longer post about, like, there are two sides to John.

[John Lovett]

Love it.

[Jack McCarthy]

Yeah. And I was like, oh, I didn't realize. The other side of, like, an ego. Yeah. Which I'm sure you have to be together. Well, that's. That's a question I have for you. At what point in politics, I'm trying to think how I should become a fucking scumbag. Like. Like, in a sense. Yeah. Like, what point do you think? Because in my head, like, well, why would you get in the line of work if you don't actually want to help people? Like, what I think about myself with podcasting, like, I don't know. I just want to laugh. Like.

[John Lovett]

Right.

[Jack McCarthy]

I. That's what I still want to do.

[Kevin Clancy]

Yeah.

[Jack McCarthy]

At what point is there, like, kind of a jump you have to make to be like. Because I don't genuinely don't think. Maybe it's just the way I choose to view the world. I don't think most politicians are bad people. I think most politicians want to help people.

[John Lovett]

Yeah.

[Jack McCarthy]

But at what point do you have to make a switch where you can. You're a little more selfish or narcissistic or whatever?

[John Lovett]

I mean, like, I think at the end of the day, like, politics, it's human beings who are flawed making imperfect decisions.

[Jack McCarthy]

Right.

[John Lovett]

Know what I mean? And, like, we're all. We all have egos. We all can be petty. We all can be. Right. And so even if you're the most powerful person in the world, you still, like, feel little slight. Like, if you're the. You're the lead singer, the Rolling Stones, or like, you're the bass player in the hottest band in the world. Like, I'm sure you get pissed off. The lead singer is getting all the shine.

[Kevin Clancy]

Right.

[John Lovett]

Like, we all have this petty inside us, I think. Like, I worked for John Edwards in 2004. He was just like a random senator from North Carolina, ran for president, got on the VP Ticket, and then for. For John Kerry, who's his vice presidential nominee. I think he's an interesting example of someone who's like a normal guy, u. S. Senator, good dude, lawyer, got kind of used to the trappings of the office and, like, having a motorcade and security and all this, and got enamored with it. And it led him down a bad path where he ended up cheating on his wife and this. Had this child out of wedlock and this whole scandal came out. Right. And so that's one example I think though, like I worked for Obama for nine years, right. And the thing that was just alien about him, he's just like so secure and confident at all times and it's so annoying, you know what I mean? Like, whenever I see him, I'm like a 24 year old kid who met him for the first time and I remember the fact that I was like sitting on the floor and wearing a ratty T shirt and I didn't have my shoes on and it's like will stick with me forever because I feel like I was a idiot and I think he remembers it. He probably has no memory of this, right? Yeah, he just like doesn't care. Right, right. But like, you're right. Like, I think most of them are in it for the right reasons, but you can get like led astray.

[Jack McCarthy]

Yeah. Okay. Because like when people just say like politicians are scumbags, like, you mean city councilors, like who, where do you start?

[John Lovett]

There certainly are scumbags.

[Jack McCarthy]

Of course.

[Kevin Clancy]

I mean, I feel like, well, nowadays it's so, I mean, I, I can't. The modern version, this modern version of politics is like being a celebrity, basically. You know what I mean? It's all about attention. Yes. It's about attention and money and followers and popularity and all that. Like when it, it's supposed to be a job, that's like the furthest thing from that. It's supposed to be, you know, like civic duty and it's like, no, I'm a rock star.

[John Lovett]

Yeah.

[Kevin Clancy]

And obviously Trump is like the, you know, the king of that. But I don't think you can undo that any like, you know what I mean? Like there, I think you used to probably be, you know, famous, but it was like here in the newspaper, talked about on the nightly news. Now it's like you're an influencer, you know what I mean? So it's, it's like if, if I was brilliant, no way I would ever go into public office. You know what I mean? I'm going to work in the private sector, I'm going to make more money. I'm not going to have all the pressure in the world army. I'm not going to be hated by at least 50% of the country. Like, I'm going to go be a tech guy. I'm going to go like, who would want this job? The job sucks.

[John Lovett]

Yeah. You have to like really care about helping people. You have to have a supreme confidence in yourself. But it's even like beyond what you just said, you also if you run for president, there is an entire industry digging up dirt on you. There's journalists who are doing their job. They're doing the right thing.

[Kevin Clancy]

Right?

[John Lovett]

But there's the opposition side, there's opposition researchers.

[Kevin Clancy]

There's every bear that you killed and buried in the park.

[John Lovett]

Our case stories are the best.

[Jack McCarthy]

I. When that one came out, I pitched the idea. The government has not gotten back to me on it, but that RFK has to be able to run in perpetuity. He's always just potentially not taking campaigning because he just has to be investigated at all times. Not for negative thing. Well, obviously negative Whatever you want to say it. But like, funny negative where it's like he buried a bear.

[John Lovett]

The story was so funny. It was like none of the geography made sense to New Yorkers, right? Like, because he had to go to a.

[Jack McCarthy]

He's doing falconry. He's doing falcon.

[John Lovett]

He's doing falconry. He found a dead bear. Then he went to like a bender dinner in Brooklyn.

[Jack McCarthy]

In Brooklyn, yeah.

[Kevin Clancy]

Then he buried in the park. Like, it's all.

[John Lovett]

But he staged a bike accident in a bike lane with a bear corpse.

[Kevin Clancy]

And then got caught like 30 years later or whatever it was in the 80s or whatever. Right?

[Jack McCarthy]

It's like every level of that story, I was like, that's the most rock star thing I ever heard.

[Kevin Clancy]

It felt like.

[John Lovett]

It felt like bad lips.

[Kevin Clancy]

Honestly, it was like Animal Place vehicle action. And just put it all together.

[John Lovett]

I was having a horrible, like, week at work and when that came out, I was crying, laughing, like dramatic reading for my family. Anyways, the best.

[Kevin Clancy]

So wait, you wrote for Obama?

[John Lovett]

So I.

[Kevin Clancy]

Because I. One of you guys love it.

[John Lovett]

If ever were speechwriters, one of you.

[Kevin Clancy]

Guys used to date my buddy's now wife.

[John Lovett]

Hope it was me.

[Kevin Clancy]

Yeah. So I don't know who it was, but we used to give him so much shit because he was hopelessly in love with this girl. And in the beginning, she just didn't really give him the time of day. And he was like, she's dating Obama's speechwriter man. And we're like sitting in our apartment like drinking like two dollar bottles of wine, like up and like, I don't know. Yeah, you're not gonna get that girl, bro.

[John Lovett]

Like, you're.

[Kevin Clancy]

He ended up getting her.

[John Lovett]

But, well, love. It's gay, so it's probably not him.

[Kevin Clancy]

Did you. Did you ever live in Hawaii?

[John Lovett]

No.

[Kevin Clancy]

Was that. Is that because she lived in Hawaii for a while? Where.

[John Lovett]

Yeah, we'll stick up on that. But no, I Worked. I worked in the press office. I was his press secretary or, like, deputy for a couple years. Then I went to the national security staff at the White House for two years.

[Kevin Clancy]

Yeah, but so, like, why are you in this?

[Jack McCarthy]

Why?

[Kevin Clancy]

Because I feel like I wouldn't want to get in politics in any way. Like, we, we talk here. Like, there, there was a moment where if we just. I always joke, like, we just became 2A guys, we probably would have like, you know, 10x our audience.

[John Lovett]

Yeah.

[Kevin Clancy]

And I was like, I. I mean, I'm just not like a sellout type to do that. But also, I don't want to be in that world where you're fighting like, every, every people are digging up dirt on you and, you know, it's like, I wouldn't even want to be tangentially related to it, but I guess it's just what you love and you're into it, so.

[John Lovett]

Yeah, I mean, look, setting, like, I don't want to portray myself as some, like, noble public servant. Right. Like, just what sucks about politics right now is it feels so shitty. Like, it feels so negative in zero sum and worse than it was when I worked for Obama. I started working for him in 2004 on a Senate campaign. Basically, I worked for Edwards. We lost. I. I found Obama's book. I read it, and then like, literally bugged someone I knew in that campaign every single day until they hired me. I was like, wow, that annoying kid. That douchebag. But it worked out.

[Jack McCarthy]

And I was gonna say, you have to be really talented to be that annoying kid and get the job.

[John Lovett]

Most people go get the away luck and timing.

[Kevin Clancy]

So that's life.

[John Lovett]

I fall into that job backwards, and I get to like, grow up in this orbit. And it was like the opposite experience of what you're saying. Like, he's not a perfect guy, you know, like, he. He can be arrogant. He made mistakes. We screwed a million things up at the White House on policy. I'm happy to unpack any of them, but, like, he was a good guy in it for the right reasons. And they were normal people. Like, I remember I went to their, their condo in Chicago in 2004 to Staff A, like, photo shoot. It was like a one bedroom and their kids slept in a bunk bed, you know? Yeah, they were normal people.

[Kevin Clancy]

Yeah.

[John Lovett]

And I think that is what's missing in politics. Like, people might not like AOC or her politics or think she's too liberal, but I think it's good that she was a bartender like, six years ago.

[Kevin Clancy]

Like a regular Human.

[John Lovett]

Yeah, Human being. She knows what, like, it's paycheck is like.

[Kevin Clancy]

And co workers.

[John Lovett]

Yeah, Ren Keys.

[Kevin Clancy]

Yeah, yeah.

[John Lovett]

That you're in the pocket, like you guys are talking about, like, so I think that's good. And he was an inspiring, hopeful person who made it about, like, a bigger cause and mission. And he made being a Democrat like a party you wanted to be a part of and cool and fun. And that is sorely missing.

[Kevin Clancy]

That is gone, brother. The gone.

[Jack McCarthy]

I read that article the other day in the Atlantic. I think the Antisocial Century. Have you heard of that? Yeah. And like, I was thinking about. I knew we were going to be interviewing you, and I was thinking about that as I was reading it. And like, so basically what the article is about is you. You think by the title, it's more phones. And it is. It hits phones pretty hard. But, like, we've been getting away from being a society for a long time where it's more about negativity and all that stuff where. But the. The article kind of highlighted that. It's been since the car. It's been since the 60s when the suburbs became a big thing.

[Kevin Clancy]

And then like, kind of like isolate yourself out there.

[Jack McCarthy]

Yeah, yeah. But, like, like, like, but. But then obviously phones were heroin for it. Where it went, I think from 03 to 2000 to 2023, I believe it was like social interaction cut in half or something like that. Oh, you know what I was saying? It was. People think it's the pandemic, but the pandemic was just another spike. Bit of heroin.

[John Lovett]

Yeah.

[Jack McCarthy]

And like, it was like, it's just following the trajectory. It's been following, like, since cars were invented. And it was all talking about how. There's one line in it that I loved, I thought was so great. What we lose in that is, is tolerance. Because family teaches love, tribes teach loyalty, village teach tolerance. And because we don't really have villages anymore, everyone's intolerant of everyone, yada, yada, yada. If the Republicans are always. Not always, but in the last 12 years, running kind of more of. On a hate campaign, how do you combat that? Like, if. If what? Everything we're doing, everywhere society is going is towards isolationism, which then breeds hatred and intolerance. How. Like how you have to have an Obama type.

[John Lovett]

I mean, I just think. Well, a lot of it is leaders. And I think, like, what will happen now? Look, I mean, I remember 2004. Bush got reelected. Everyone thought, like, Kerry was going to win. They thought Iraq was going badly. People Might want to change. Bush got reelected and the Democratic Party was like, crushed. And people were having the same conversation as we're having right now. Like, the Democrats are done, they're on the mat. Like, third party time. Burn it down, start over.

[Kevin Clancy]

Right.

[John Lovett]

And no one was thinking like, well, what about this black dude, Barack Hussein Obama?

[Kevin Clancy]

Right, Right.

[Jack McCarthy]

Yeah.

[Kevin Clancy]

This community center leader. Yeah.

[John Lovett]

Senator from Illinois. Like, who's this dude? So things emerge and I'm, I'm hopeful that that will happen, but I think it's going to take a concerted effort to find those people.

[Kevin Clancy]

How is there not just a decent can out there right now? Like, like, and, and I don't want to say it in like a. It sounds coming. It sounds ignorant what I'm about to say, but, like, I don't think right now is the time to put a, a minority woman up there. Right. Like, if you're trying to win, like, I know obviously that would be good progress, but like, I think the way the country is right now, if you want to win, you probably need to just like almost, you know, back to a more prototypical politician, which is not, you know, great for progress and all that, but in terms of trying to win the party and there's just nobody that's just like, hey, this is a young guy, like Ivy League brilliant in like the tech field who wants to do civic duty. Like, there just is nobody. Or, or did like something happen? Was there somebody who had promised that like dropped out or there was a scandal or something like that or.

[John Lovett]

Yeah, I mean, look, people again. In 04, people made that same argument. And like, people, that's what they're like, oh, John Edwards, like Southern moderate Democrats out in Obama, the Illinois guy. Right. So you never know. I think there are, there is a bench, like someone you guys might really like is Wes Moore, who's governor from Maryland, just like a cool younger guy, served in the military. There was this awesome clip of him, like, like in full pads. Maybe not full pads, but he's like wearing a football uniform, like going to practice with the Maryland team and they're just like, they're trying to punch out the ball so hard and he's got these guns, but he's like gripping it with all his life, like just a young cool guy. It's crazy.

[Kevin Clancy]

But that, like that, man, it really should not matter.

[John Lovett]

But dude, Donald TRUMP Serving McDonald's, like, was brilliant. Yeah, brilliant.

[Jack McCarthy]

That. So that guy. That makes a difference.

[John Lovett]

I think so.

[Kevin Clancy]

It's so like, like if, if you can't see through that Though, you know what I mean? But the fact that there are people out there being like, he drove a truck that day. He was in McDonald's. I know he's an everyman. It's like he would spit on you and piss on you and, like, you know.

[John Lovett]

But dorks in dc, Myself included, sometimes think of, like, campaigns and candidates as, like, a list of policies. But your average, like the. The biggest disconnect in politics is people who pay a lot of attention and then people who pay no attention.

[Kevin Clancy]

Huge gap.

[Jack McCarthy]

Right.

[John Lovett]

And not because they're bad or dumb or, like, they're busy. Yeah. There's shit going on. And so, like, you see Trump serving McDonald's on tick tock, and you're like, oh, that's funny. That's relatable. I like him. And that's how people vote.

[Kevin Clancy]

Do you think there's.

[Jack McCarthy]

I remember seeing that before the election coming up. The. Or the election that just passed where it was like, we're all getting worked up and this is going to be decided by 3000 people in Michigan who didn't even know until they got to the poll that Biden wasn't running.

[John Lovett]

Right.

[Jack McCarthy]

And it kind of puts things in perspective where you're like, okay, I can exhale. It is really out of my control right now. But the. You said earlier about in 04, that's exactly how I was before this election with MAGA people.

[John Lovett]

Right. Can I ask you guys a question?

[Jack McCarthy]

Yeah.

[John Lovett]

Like, barstool gets pigeonholed as conservative. Right. And I don't totally know why that is. Maybe it's a Dave thing.

[Kevin Clancy]

Yeah, Dave's on Fox News every day.

[John Lovett]

Yeah, that tracks. I'll do it.

[Kevin Clancy]

Stop putting us in a box.

[John Lovett]

But some of it is, like, issues that come up a lot in a comedy space, like, cancel culture. Right. And like, I sometimes I think people, like, think of cancel culture as a partisan thing when really both sides do it. And what they really is, like, Internet pylons are bad. Yeah. Here's what happened.

[Kevin Clancy]

Here's what happened. We were talking about relatively recently, we used to write blogs called the Pussification of America. That was Cancel culture. And woke. We just came up. Dave came up with his own little phrase for it. And that was like, participation trophies. And like, at that point, it was like, you know, we were making gender neutral jokes and things that are like, totally, you can't do anymore. But at that point, it was like, yeah, can you believe that the high school coach is not allowed to, you know, run your kids into the ground anymore? And things like that. And then that kind of became more political. But I remember we would write, we were almost like, people would send us those articles and be like, blog about this because, like, people are being pussies, basically. And then that became like such a thing. Like, I don't, I hate either side of it. Like, like, like I obviously being in comedy in some regard and, and people getting canceled for jokes. I don't like that. But then the other side of complaining about it so much became like, I don't want to do that either. You know what I mean? So I don't want to be like, when people like, yeah, like, make fun of cancel culture, it's like, you're lame. Just as lame too. So the extremes of it just got.

[Jack McCarthy]

You know, cancel culture, I think never was a thing, like, I, I, whatever you're mad about, there is someone making that joke successfully right now. If you're like, we can't say blank anymore. There's a show doing it. There's a stand up doing it. They're just doing it better than the person who got Jesse. There's someone making the joke that you think can't be made. Oh, we can't say that anymore. Yes, you can. There's someone making a lot of money doing it. Yeah, they just do it. Right.

[John Lovett]

I guess why I asked is like, I remember you reached out to me like, several years ago. You're like, hey, come on my show. And I was a wimp and a loser. And I was like, I can't because barstool brand is bad and our audience will not like it. And I think back on that and I really regret it because I think it's stupid for me to suggest that, like, you guys or your audience, like, first of all, share all the views of the place you work. Like, that's not how life works. We don't espouse the views of our corporation. Right. Like, yeah, yeah.

[Kevin Clancy]

I always thought that was funny. It was like, and I get. Because we're just a smaller shop, but it's like, you don't go to like in ESPN and be like, what does Scott Van Pelt most think? The same thing as John Skipper.

[John Lovett]

Right, right.

[Kevin Clancy]

You know, these are just people who work at the same place.

[John Lovett]

Yeah. But also, like, I think from a just a purely like, tactical political perspective, it's so stupid for Democrats not to be talking to the barstool audience and then complain when people vote for Donald Trump. I mean, and that's kind of like what you, you just want to talk.

[Kevin Clancy]

To you guys ever Underestimate how many and how, like, passionate. There are people who are, like, in the Midwest who just, like, love football. And like, I always think of it from like a, like a content point of view.

[John Lovett]

Right.

[Kevin Clancy]

But it kind of applies to politics where it's like those. These guys just want to, like, talk about football and, and, and their life. And like, you know, we're in this bubble over here and don't realize that that is a big, big swath of America. And if you ignore that or not even ignore that, but, like, actively piss them off and belittle them or treat them so they feel that way for a long time, there's is going to be a backlash, you know, but that.

[Jack McCarthy]

Was an active thought for you to be like, you know, it was just.

[John Lovett]

Me being, like, worried about getting beaten down by the Internet.

[Kevin Clancy]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jack McCarthy]

I mean, I get that, like, on the other, you know, put the shoe on the other foot. Like, if I can't even think, I guess Tucker Carlson. If Tucker Carlson wanted to come on the show, I'd be like, no, I don't want to do that. And like, it probably isn't smart. Not even. I'm not talking about numbers or business or anything like that, but, like, you just talk. It's kind of like we're talking about earlier, like, the Village. Like, it's easier to just talk to people. But now I feel like all of us have audiences that we just assume their audience is gonna suck, so they're gonna want to talk about blank, that I don't want to sit down and talk with them. Which, again, is. Is dumb probably for both people.

[John Lovett]

Yeah.

[Kevin Clancy]

Like, I think when. When you go on a show of any kind, whether it's like, I almost feel like 100 of the time, you walk out of, like, an interview being like, oh, that wasn't so bad. That guy was like, pretty cool. Or like, we didn't totally agree on, like, everything, but, like, he's better in person. It's like, the problem is the fan bases, because politics has just become sports. It's like the way you radically root for your team. And I will never give a Yankee fan, like, any credit or any humanity. Like, you know, I just hate them, but it's just silly. It's sports. When you apply that to real life politics, it's a problem. But I do not know how, like, I don't know how to stop that at all. There's no. Because even if there is some humanity amongst candidates, like, you're not going to stop your. Either of your mobs from engaging the way they engage. You know what I mean?

[Jack McCarthy]

Yeah.

[John Lovett]

You can draw lines, but you can't stop. Like, Jack, to your question a couple minutes ago of, like, why do I like politics? There is a piece of it where it's like, you're on a team. It's a shared experience. Like, you share the suck when it's terrible and the, the good times when it's fun and there's a competitive piece of it. And I think, like, I missed that in my life. Like, I wasn't good at sports, but I liked playing sports.

[Jack McCarthy]

Right.

[John Lovett]

I like being on a team and part of, like, a shared goal and mission.

[Kevin Clancy]

And bro, let me tell you, just go play like a men's basketball league.

[John Lovett]

I will dislocate my shoulders so fast.

[Kevin Clancy]

Yeah.

[John Lovett]

The fourth time.

[Kevin Clancy]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jack McCarthy]

I actually.

[Kevin Clancy]

At least safe physically for now. Yeah.

[Jack McCarthy]

Right, right, right. I actually, I, I, I, I don't, I don't. I'm not confused why you get a box. Because I actually, I kind of like politics to an extent. I like, I like me. Well, I don't like talking about him on podcasts because I like, if we're going to have a real conversation like we're doing now, I'm happy to do that, but I just hate being like, is it Trump funny? And I really like, that's, like, how the podcast circuit works. Like, do you see what Trump did say? It's so funny. I'm like, can we, like, you want to talk about, like, an idea?

[Kevin Clancy]

Sure.

[Jack McCarthy]

I love talk about that. But, like, the, I can't do. It's the fan bases. I can't deal with fan bases and stuff like that. 99% of people I interact with, I like. Right.

[Kevin Clancy]

Yeah.

[Jack McCarthy]

I like them and I have fun with them.

[John Lovett]

Yeah.

[Jack McCarthy]

And, but just the one, it's. If you like, wearing it on your sleeve and all that, like, like, if someone came in here, like, again, like, talks on like a MAGA hat, like, I don't want to do this interview. Like, this is so dumb.

[Kevin Clancy]

Yeah. I mean, it became, I hate to be the, you know, nobody likes the. It feels very much like you have to pick a side these days. You know what I mean? And it's like when both sides are pretty radical and everything does kind of suck, it's, it's hard. It's like, I don't know what to do politically. It's like, because I, I don't agree with one side, I don't like the way the other side acts. Like, there's different things. There's different things that are not likable about each sides. You know what I mean?

[John Lovett]

Yeah.

[Kevin Clancy]

And it's. I am very much like, you know, man, without a party where I'm like, I. I don't like any of this, like, at all.

[Jack McCarthy]

Yeah.

[John Lovett]

It feels bleak right now. I mean, I think what's, what's so annoying about politics is like a few thousand votes one way or the other and you win or lose. And if you win, you're a genius and you lose, you're a moron.

[Kevin Clancy]

Yeah. That's just not how it wins.

[John Lovett]

You know what I mean? Like.

[Kevin Clancy]

Right.

[John Lovett]

So I think it's treated as so zero sum. But the truth is right now America's like a 5050 country, you know, and we're all acting like, look, the Republicans have all the control. They will for at least two years. There's going to be some dark times for, you know, libs like me getting triggered left and right.

[Kevin Clancy]

Lib tar.

[John Lovett]

But I think, like, it's a pendulum. It swings, you know, it'll swing bad.

[Jack McCarthy]

This ad is brought to you by game time. You know, here at KFC radio and at barstool sports as a whole, we love getting out to live events, be it a concert, a football game, a comedy show. We always use game time, the official ticketing partner of barstool Sports. You know how much we love game time. Now with their brand new game time pick feature, they're making it even easier to get to a game Game times picks. Game time picks filters out the fluff to show you only incredible deals on great seats so you don't have to waste time searching through thousands of tickets to use game time picks. Just pull up your char chosen event and turn on the GT pick setting at the top of the screen or browse the best local game time picks deals near you on the game time app homepage. What are you waiting for? Go get. Go see. All in. Go see. Man G was just telling me how to play that. Nicole Scherzinger is in that she said was really good. All kinds of games in town. Rangers are active in season, Knicks are active in season. We got tickets for everything. All you gotta do is download the game time app today and use code KFC to easily score great deals with new game time picks. What time is it? Game time. Yeah. Now I have a question there because that's another idea that I had forgotten about that I might want to pitch to you. You said America is kind of like a 5050 country. I think what America needs because we are so divided More divided than we've ever been about. I think we need state tv.

[John Lovett]

Tell me more.

[Kevin Clancy]

Like, like North Korea type.

[Jack McCarthy]

Kinda. Kinda. Maybe a diet version listening where it's like, it's a pretty good place. And like, let's all just accept that it's a good place. What's. We're starting there. It's not the greatest. It's a. It's. It's not perfect, but it's a good spot. It's a pretty good spot we got here. Right? And just, just reminding people every day.

[John Lovett]

Like, hey, it's not so bad.

[Jack McCarthy]

It's not so bad. Yeah, like, you know what I mean?

[Kevin Clancy]

Like, yeah, like, hey girls, like, you can show your ankles if you wanted to. There are some things that are pretty cool around here.

[Jack McCarthy]

There's just, just like I remember reading before the election and you, you, you know, you'll know this better than me, but like, I remember reading that like, post pandemic, we had the best economy in the world or at least in the G7 and I travel a good amount and we're better than the other places and like, I really love them. I love them. I love going. But like, just someone reminded and someone like, well, someone who's not in a party affiliated. Someone like, I don't even know who it would be, but just someone is like, hey, guys, things aren't so bad today. And you're like, okay, now I can talk to other people because it's not DEFCON 5 right now or DEFCON 1, right.

[John Lovett]

I feel like your state TV idea, like that kind of exists like PBS or something like substantive and thoughtful and like, no, no one wants.

[Jack McCarthy]

Can't be that. Okay.

[Kevin Clancy]

He wants, he wants like the Fast and the Furious version.

[John Lovett]

Okay. Okay.

[Jack McCarthy]

Well, Dwayne the Rock Johnson was going to be someone I threw out. Although he' a lot of grace recently.

[John Lovett]

That's not a bad idea.

[Jack McCarthy]

But just someone being like, hey, like, you guys see the football game last night? That was pretty cool. Popeye's still here. Like, like, just, like, just stuff like Brutalist is unbelievable in theaters right now. Just like some good we got going on.

[John Lovett]

Yeah. And instead we have the opposite, which is a bunch of social media sites, like, dividing us and algorithms and making us hate each other.

[Kevin Clancy]

I don't see any end in sight.

[John Lovett]

I don't either.

[Kevin Clancy]

Like, like, like part of me thinks that Trump has been. He's so one of a kind that nobody can take that baton and run with it the same way.

[Jack McCarthy]

That, that's why before this election I was like, Was like, people were in 04. I was like, I was super confident.

[Kevin Clancy]

Yeah.

[Jack McCarthy]

I was like, he.

[Kevin Clancy]

I. I was very. I. I. I just don't think Kamala was a great. Kamal was a great candidate. And I thought it was just crazy how I was like, I feel like it was almost the running joke for, like, three years was like, we're hiding her in the basement. She's doing nothing. And then all of a sudden, it was like, we lied. Actually, she's the greatest candidate ever. And I remember being like, I don't even if you don't like her, this is not the way to run this. You know what I mean? But he had me. I was like, I don't know. John seems pretty confident.

[Jack McCarthy]

I was like, I was sitting back, smoking cigars like, kamal's gonna win a blood.

[Kevin Clancy]

I was like. I was like, I don't think so. But, man, he's like.

[Jack McCarthy]

He's really. Kevin would have, like, a million polls. He'd be like, it doesn't seem that way, but those are wrong.

[John Lovett]

Yeah.

[Jack McCarthy]

Just logic. Like, I'm a logic, logic guy. And logically, I was like, I don't understand how you can lose by 7 million votes, get convicted 34 times, get found, you know, whatever. The. However I'm supposed to legally phrase the.

[Kevin Clancy]

Yeah.

[Jack McCarthy]

E. Carol.

[John Lovett]

Right.

[Jack McCarthy]

I forget her last name.

[John Lovett]

Yeah, the sexual assault.

[Jack McCarthy]

Sexual assault. And. And I was like, I don't. You can't lose by 7 million votes and pick up votes.

[John Lovett]

You would think, but, like, so did.

[Kevin Clancy]

You think that Kamal was a great candidate? And, I mean, put aside, like, all of these people are accomplished and smart and, like, you know, you come from a. A great background as an attorney and all that. I'm not saying she's an idiot, but it's like, in terms of being the.

[John Lovett]

President, listen, I mean, winning is everything, right? So if, you know, if you lose, I don't think you're a great kid. I thought she did. I thought, like, spinning up a campaign, 107 days is next to impossible. I think they did a lot of things right. There are a bunch of things. I feel like that was the thing, though.

[Kevin Clancy]

No, no, because the money. Everyone's like, oh, the money. The money came in the money. Anybody.

[John Lovett]

Look, it was not perfect. And I think they should have taken more swings. And, like, too many. Too much has been written or discussed. Like, should she do Rogan or not? Like, of course you do Rogan.

[Jack McCarthy]

Yeah. Do everything crazy.

[Kevin Clancy]

Yeah.

[John Lovett]

But, yeah, I think you need to loosen up and let rip a little bit. But you Know, like, what did I think going in? I thought odds are he was going to win because everyone, all incumbents were losing. But by the end, I let myself kind of get believed into her winning. Believe. I wanted to believe. Believe.

[Jack McCarthy]

So I thought it was, I thought from the debate, I was like, what's the same thing as the other one? It's one person who's qual, like who can speak and one person. They only did the one. And I was like, it.

[Kevin Clancy]

When, when the assassination attempt happened, that's.

[John Lovett]

When I thought it was over.

[Kevin Clancy]

Okay. Yeah. Because I remember thinking that was another one. I was like, I was like, it's a rap. And I remember him being like it. We're pretty far out from the election. Like that, that might like fade in time. I was like, oh, that's a good point. But I do think things like that really matter. That imagery and the. Yeah, you know, it just rallies. It's, it's, you know. That was crazy, by the way. That was crazy. Imagine if his head just got blown up on tv. That would have been, I mean, his head would have exploded on television.

[John Lovett]

Would have been really bad. I think it would have descended the country into horrific violence.

[Kevin Clancy]

Yeah, yeah. That would have been nuts.

[John Lovett]

But yeah, I mean, so he's got four more years. He's a lame duck, really. It's two years until the midterms and then Democrats, if they win, can block what he wants to do. But like it's a two year window for the party to get a together and figure out what they want to be for or fumble the bag, you know what, what is.

[Jack McCarthy]

You said something there where you talking about blocking what he wants to do. I was thinking about that yesterday when he signed. I forget, executive orders. Yeah. And I think at least a good deal of them or some of them were designed to undo what Biden did.

[John Lovett]

Yeah.

[Kevin Clancy]

Has that.

[Jack McCarthy]

Is that how it's always been? That the next guy just undoes everything? The last guy? Because you can't really get anything going at that point.

[John Lovett]

Right. I mean, so. Yes and no. Like an executive order is kind of a glorified press release. Like you are telling the government how to implement laws that exist. You can't like create new laws, you can't amend laws, you can't appropriate money for things. You can move money around a little bit. So it's like EOs are real in some instances. Like you can sanction a country or you can like make immigration policy, but you can't do big things. Like you can't pass Obamacare. Or whatever. Like, that has to be through Congress. You can't put money towards something. So he undid a bunch of things Biden did through executive order yesterday. Like, that's not that surprising to me. But what will get harder for him is passing things through Congress.

[Jack McCarthy]

But did Biden do the same thing when he got out? Like, did he.

[John Lovett]

Some shit like, you know, undid the Muslim ban or, like, got back into the Paris climate accords that Trump just got us out of?

[Kevin Clancy]

Yeah.

[Jack McCarthy]

So that, like, at some point don't. Like, we have to. It's almost like a co. Like a team changing coach every two years. You're like, you can't get anything going. Yeah. If we just. Every four years, we're just undoing what the last guy did.

[John Lovett]

That's right. And so this. All this about, like, I'm gonna do this on day one, and that ends up being all these executive orders that are, like, kind of. They're not as mean.

[Kevin Clancy]

It's almost like pr. Right. It's like you're announcing. This is what I believe or what I think. Right.

[John Lovett]

Like, he put past an EO yesterday that will prevent the government from blocking freedom of speech. Did you guys notice a big difference today?

[Kevin Clancy]

Well, but almost like.

[Jack McCarthy]

Free speech is one we get a little too worked up about. I'm an anti free speech guy. I think free speech should be treated like, oh, no. It should be treated like I'm on the show. Like a baby crying, where you're like, no one, stop it. But I'm not loving it.

[John Lovett]

You know what I mean? That's fair.

[Jack McCarthy]

Yeah. Like, we shouldn't be, like, proud of it. It's like, yeah, this has to. No one. No one's ever been, like, a free thinker or a free speech guy, and you're like, get a lot of this guy.

[John Lovett]

Yeah.

[Jack McCarthy]

Turn him up.

[Kevin Clancy]

Yeah. Well, the people who exercise free speech are the worst.

[John Lovett]

Yeah.

[Jack McCarthy]

That's what I'm saying. That's the problem.

[John Lovett]

Yeah.

[Kevin Clancy]

I believe. I believe that there's, like, a thousand people who should get to vote. Like, I really. Here. Here are my two big hot takes. Like, one, I think people are just dreadfully uninformed, myself being one of them. Like, I don't know enough about any of this, like, to really. To really, you know, voice my opinion. And two, we need to, like, we got to break up the country into, like, five different countries. I legitimate. Like, there's just no way that, like, people from the Northeast are going to align with, you know, people from, like, Mississippi. It's like, it's different countries. It's so big.

[John Lovett]

Like an AP poll and then conferences.

[Kevin Clancy]

No, I. I think there should be, like. Like the Northeast used to be a country. The Southeast used to be a country.

[John Lovett]

The California.

[Kevin Clancy]

California probably just be its own country.

[John Lovett]

Yeah, we got it.

[Kevin Clancy]

And then, like, from, like, the, like, Washington State through, like, the Midwest can just be like them. And then, like, Texas, we'll call that.

[Jack McCarthy]

Like, the Bush or something.

[Kevin Clancy]

But, like, how in the world. Why in the world would I ever think, feel, and be under the same rules, laws, lifestyle, from, like, someone from Mississippi, Alabama? It's just like, we're not. You know, when you look like, when Europe, it's. It's like so tight together, and they're all these, like, little itty bitty places. We have this massive country with such diverse economics and thoughts and all that. Like, why would it be under one rule? That's insane.

[John Lovett]

Yeah, but then there's the. There's the federalist approach, where, you know, you have a bunch of states that can make their own laws, you know, so there's flexibility.

[Kevin Clancy]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I get it, but it's just. It's. It's. It just feels like you're going like, we. I feel like we ultimately started as a people who are similar. Right. And then it's like you grow out in different economies, different styles, and then naturally you just keep going, you know, separate from each other. And it's like, I probably would relate more to, like, you know, certain European countries than I would to some guy, you know, in Texas who's, like, farming and loves his guns and all that. It's like we are from different planets.

[John Lovett]

Right? Well, and this is the problem with the country, right? It evolves over time. There's immigration, people are having kids. Like, industries evolve and change, and it looks different and it feels different, and we kind of have to grow into that. And we look to leaders to either bring us together or pull us apart as those things happen. And I think, like, Trump is trying to pull us apart and make us hate each other. And I think that's the scary piece.

[Kevin Clancy]

So what happens? Like, what if Trump just, like, kills it?

[John Lovett]

What if he's great?

[Kevin Clancy]

Yeah. Well, like, what would. Like, you know, I. I know there. There are times where it's like, like, what's good? Like, what was his name on the soccer team who didn't make the national team, like, 10 years ago? Landon Donovan. Remember he got left off the team?

[John Lovett]

Yeah.

[Kevin Clancy]

And I was like, that guy's sitting at home rooting against America for sure. You know, he just is. He just is. And I feel like there's a lot of that. That goes on where it's like, I think there are people right now who would rather the country perform poorly and things go bad. So they can be like, right now, the world is stuck in being right. They want to be right. Whether you're arguing about sports or, like, literal, like, life, it's like, I would rather be right than happy, prosperous, good. You know what I mean?

[John Lovett]

No doubt. People get dug in. They get dogged and ridiculous about their views, and they hate the other guy more than they like their own team. Yeah, that happens all the time. It's like.

[Jack McCarthy]

It's force.

[Kevin Clancy]

Yeah. But again, that's. You shouldn't do that with your life stuff.

[John Lovett]

But it's definitely bad. Look, from just from my personal perspective, like. Like Trump, there was just a ceasefire in Gaza.

[Kevin Clancy]

Yeah.

[John Lovett]

Biden people worked on this deal for, like, 13 months. Trump got it over the finish line. He told his envoy to go over there and basically get it done. And, like, when he named this dude, it was like, his golf buddy. He's like real estate guy, Steve Wycoff. I made fun of it. I was like, who's this clown? He's the Middle east peace envoy. And then the guy sealed the deal and got a ceasefire to happen, at least temporarily. And I give Trump tons of credit for that. That, and if he can cut a deal with the Russians and Ukrainians, that leads to peace there. That isn't just like, Ukraine getting gutted and losing all its territory and not being able to defend itself going forward. The guy should get the Nobel Peace Prize. You know what I mean?

[Jack McCarthy]

Yeah.

[John Lovett]

Yeah. Go, President Trump. I cheer for you. But you're right. Like, I remember I was in the White House when we killed Osama bin Laden, and there were Republicans who even that week, like, wouldn't. Wouldn't praise Obama.

[Jack McCarthy]

Right.

[John Lovett]

I was like, ah, okay.

[Kevin Clancy]

Yeah.

[John Lovett]

You're really.

[Kevin Clancy]

Yeah.

[John Lovett]

It's like you're doing, like, the super bowl interview the morning after, after. Still drunk and, like, he couldn't get any love from anybody. Like, Lindsey Graham. Like, I see how this works.

[Kevin Clancy]

Right.

[John Lovett]

I get the game here. You know how.

[Jack McCarthy]

How much of it is a game? Because I remember seeing. I think it was at Jimmy Carter's funeral. There's the video of, like, it was Trump and Obama.

[Kevin Clancy]

Real quick, did you see that stat about Jimmy Carter that he. That he was alive for 490 of Babe Ruth's home runs?

[Jack McCarthy]

That's crazy.

[Kevin Clancy]

And 490 of Giancarlo Stanton's home run. He saw the same amount of home runs. Babe Ruth and Mike Stan. That guy was alive for a thousand years.

[Jack McCarthy]

But when it was, it was, I'm sure you've seen it, the Trump and Obama, like, kind of laughing with each other, which, like, as someone who likes Obama doesn't like Trump. I was like, kind of like at.

[John Lovett]

First I was like, people didn't love.

[Jack McCarthy]

It well, but at the same time, like, I was like, well, that's what I would do. I'm gonna funeral. Some guy I hate hits me, I laugh about. I'm like, I, I play nice. And you know, we're, again, we're at a goddamn presidential funeral. But like, aside from that video, how much of politics is that of people like, who hate each other publicly just being like, yo, what's up, bro?

[John Lovett]

Yeah, yeah.

[Kevin Clancy]

It's like we're playing everybody like a fiddle, huh? We're all getting rich in power and all that. Yeah.

[John Lovett]

Well, I, I've been told, like, my buddy was Jeb's communications guy and he said Trump, Trump was like the number one guy there. Like, he, like commercial break would happen at a debate, like, how you doing? How's your family? What's going on? Like, and you can see that in Trump. He's a, he's.

[Kevin Clancy]

I think he's a Clinton esque in that regard.

[John Lovett]

Baby wants to be loved, right? So there is some bullshit to it. Like these guys, especially back in the day, they were all like elite members of the same social circles, same schools, same money.

[Jack McCarthy]

Yeah, Right.

[John Lovett]

So they were buddies. And I think it kept it a little more cordial. And these days it's just a bit more cutthroat.

[Kevin Clancy]

Did you see the clip of this is Girl I follow on Instagram who. Who is a lip reader. And at the inauguration, she. Obama leaned over to. He walks in.

[Jack McCarthy]

Bush.

[Kevin Clancy]

Yeah, Bush.

[Jack McCarthy]

Yeah.

[Kevin Clancy]

And he was like, how could we stop what's happening?

[John Lovett]

That's good. Good question, sir. Bush always around, dude. Bush like, crack jokes, slap, bum in the stomach.

[Kevin Clancy]

Does he have like a PR team or is it just like, I mean, like one of the worst war criminals ever? 20 years ago now he's like this funny, goofy guy.

[John Lovett]

That's weird.

[Kevin Clancy]

Is that, Is that like a. Was that like a conscious thing or that just happened? Because he's one of those guys who naturally is kind of like, liked as well. Even though I think that's just his vibe. Yeah.

[John Lovett]

He just is a goofball.

[Kevin Clancy]

Yeah. It's weird, you know, like Destined to be MLB commissioner, forced to be a war criminal. Like, he. He just wanted to like all the Rangers, and he should have stuck in that. No, but you know what's crazy? Like, I mean, you know, what the.

[Jack McCarthy]

Wait, sorry, I'm gonna interrupt because it's important. I want one more idea I wanted to pitch to you. Saying war criminal reminded me. It's actually not my idea. It's PFTs. And I. When he saw. I saw him say it once, I was like, that's the most brilliant idea ever. What if after your president, you have.

[Kevin Clancy]

To go to jail?

[John Lovett]

For how long?

[Jack McCarthy]

Forever. Oh, that's it. As president, like, you probably committed some war crimes, right? Like every. Like, if you're American president, you go to jail after. I think that's a great idea.

[John Lovett]

I don't know about that one.

[Jack McCarthy]

I don't think I'd be signing up now. We're getting people who are committed to the calling.

[John Lovett]

You were really down your eye killers.

[Jack McCarthy]

You, like, had God spoke to you. You know, this is a calling because, you know, if you're signing up, you're going to jail.

[John Lovett]

What kind of jail? Like, real federal.

[Jack McCarthy]

It'd be a nice jail.

[Kevin Clancy]

Like one of those, like, Sweden. Swedish prisons.

[John Lovett]

Like a fence this high.

[Jack McCarthy]

It's where that horrible terrorist in Sweden went. Or Norway. What was the guy's name?

[John Lovett]

RAC or something like that. The guy who shot, like, 77 people? Yeah.

[Jack McCarthy]

He's like.

[Kevin Clancy]

I remember seeing. They're like, please don't go outside that fence. And they're like, okay, yeah. Wait.

[John Lovett]

Ra. City. Brevic. I don't know. I'm glad. I don't know the name of this.

[Jack McCarthy]

But I saw his prison cell toured once, and I was like, not bad.

[John Lovett]

Are you doing?

[Jack McCarthy]

No, no, no, no, no. It was on video, but it was like. Like, he had access to, like, guitars. He had a music room. So the president could have all. They can have what he had.

[John Lovett]

Okay, we'll.

[Kevin Clancy]

We'll.

[John Lovett]

We'll take this one up the chain.

[Jack McCarthy]

Okay.

[Kevin Clancy]

At the risk of, you know, dying by suicide in a couple. A couple days, the. The Clintons in the party, I feel like it would be best to. To move on.

[John Lovett]

Yeah.

[Kevin Clancy]

And get rid of them.

[John Lovett]

I mean, I think this is the other thing. The Democratic Party really fucked up the last couple of cycles. Like, Obama ran against Washington and against his own political party. We ran against the Clintons. And, like, the message was he was anti the Iraq war and anti establishment. And then in 2016, we were like, like, here is Hillary Clinton someone you've known for 30 years in many cases. Like a lot of you have very strong feelings against her negatively. Right. And then we ran Joe Biden who pulled it off the first time, but still was like a fixture of Washington. And I think being for the establishment, being for the status quo, like senators that have been around for decades that can't. That's not the future. Like we have a gerontocracy problem. We gotta get there. Really.

[Kevin Clancy]

It's got to be a limit, like a. I agree. I mean it's crazy.

[John Lovett]

Limits, age limits, whatever.

[Kevin Clancy]

Crazy, crazy. Like what would you cap it at.

[John Lovett]

If it was an age 65, 75?

[Kevin Clancy]

I think even, even like because you, you know, you probably. I know playing 70 year olds who are fine, but it's like it's the same reason. I also know like a 30 year old that could probably be smart enough, but it's just too young and then you're just too old. Like it's, it is insane that these guys are literally ancient corpses. And I also think there has to be something done about like, like Nancy Pelosi's money. I don't know what goes on there, but it's weird and it's a problem. It's just, I know it's enough of an issue where it's just like, like there's this is broken. You know what I mean?

[John Lovett]

Like the fact that you can buy and sell individual stocks as a member of Congress is insane and it should be banned.

[Kevin Clancy]

How is there if there's any sort of insider trading rules that exist? How is that allowed?

[John Lovett]

It's outrageous and it should not happen. And it drives me crazy.

[Kevin Clancy]

I guess as long as.

[John Lovett]

Do you follow unusual ways rule is.

[Kevin Clancy]

Like, it's like Belichick. It's like fix the rule then.

[Jack McCarthy]

Yeah, yeah.

[Kevin Clancy]

I'm not gonna not get rich if I can Belichick now I have to.

[Jack McCarthy]

I'm like, you're. He's like my Brahma.

[John Lovett]

You're right.

[Jack McCarthy]

Bill would do, Bill would take the wind. I know he would.

[John Lovett]

Yeah.

[Kevin Clancy]

But like that, that is, you know, it's like that also just gives something, it just gives ammo to, to the other side and, or, or, or makes people tractors or whatever faces. Yeah, it's just like. Because I, I, I probably get a little more conspiratorial than, than the average person. But I also, and I know like some.

[Jack McCarthy]

I don't think you do.

[Kevin Clancy]

I think I actually. Yeah.

[Jack McCarthy]

As conspiratorial as. Yeah. Average person.

[Kevin Clancy]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think I used, I probably used to be a little more.

[John Lovett]

Right. Yeah.

[Kevin Clancy]

But I, I also do like a lot of that as more of just like, you know, for fun, just thinking outside the box, whatever. I don't like believe a lot of it, but I do believe like there is that there's just so much mistrust, there's so distrust that just was like I. And I. I don't know if it's got to be like a new party system or like a new, like what would it take for there to be like, like a change in, in the election process. The. How many parties are involved? How many? Right. Like.

[John Lovett]

Yeah, like.

[Kevin Clancy]

Well, I mean there's so entrenched in this that how, how do you stop it?

[John Lovett]

Yeah, I mean, I think we'd have to. Well, a third party candidate could run and do really well like a Ross Perot in 92 and steal a bunch of votes from one side.

[Kevin Clancy]

They never have a real shot, right?

[John Lovett]

Never a real shot. But like you've never seen someone that was really good and determined. And part of that is because it's super hard to get on the ballot and it's expensive and there's all these roadblocks set up to keep third party candidates off ballots. And I've been a person who's. I'm not like work to do that, but have criticized them because I thought, you know, such and such like the Green Party or something will steal votes from Democrats while helping Trump. Right?

[Kevin Clancy]

Yeah, totally out.

[John Lovett]

But you know, in Europe there's parliamentary systems or proportional representation where you have multiple parties that have more.

[Kevin Clancy]

Did that evolve though? Or were they always, you know what I mean? Like.

[John Lovett]

Yeah, I mean those are just their system. Like just how it works in like the UK or in Israel. You can evolve over time. Like you can raise or lower the threshold of vote. You need to get into parliament and get a seat. But like we, you know, we're kind of stuck with the two party system right now. I feel like stuck forever.

[Kevin Clancy]

How's that gonna change?

[John Lovett]

I think it has to change from the inside. Like I think people have to give a. And get involved and try to fix the things that exist. That's my personal. Yeah, people can disagree. People can say that. Burn it down. This sucks. I'm. I'm not voting.

[Jack McCarthy]

But you know who steps in there? American State tv.

[John Lovett]

Right?

[Jack McCarthy]

Burn it down, guys.

[Kevin Clancy]

Tv.

[Jack McCarthy]

Everyone easy with the lighters and torches. Just fucking put them down for a second. They used to always particularly like, like Trump's first term when people like Washington needs a shake up. I don't think it does.

[Kevin Clancy]

Well, you know what? Unfortunately, like, like Trump has. Is such an extreme of it. But, but I think there was a real appeal to people who hate the 90,000-year-old Mitch McConnells and the old people. It's like, and, and we liked that it was a normal quote, unquote, even though he's the furthest thing from normal. But not a career politician is really what it was. And if there was somebody who was a little more like, less polarizing, the Mark Cuban. Yeah, yeah. But I, but I also think that once you get there, like, I think Mark Cuban would be just as bad in the other direction because you fall into the role and it's like, oh, I can't just like, play it down the middle. You got to pick sides. You gotta. If there's too much money and like, your life's in danger if you don't. You know what I mean? It's like, it's easy to say these things, but it's much harder when you get there to actually do it.

[John Lovett]

It's tough. And look, I worked for Obama and like, he ran, he got to the Senate. Fox News recognized him as a threat. And then one morning I'm watching TV and they're doing a report on how he was raised at a radical madrasa in Indonesia. And they're suggesting he's like, a terrorist. And it's like, like the beginning of this decade long birther process. So the media plays a role in this, like, opposition research types and partisan hacks, and it can take on a life of its own and it can, like, take the political debate in this stupid, shitty, negative place that has nothing to do with the things that, like, you're actually voting on or trying to do in Washington. That makes the whole thing harder. And like, social media is making that way worse.

[Jack McCarthy]

It's weirdly made like, like the age of technology and the age of information or whatever it is technically that we're living in, has oddly become like the age of faith. Because no matter what you believe, you can find statistics.

[John Lovett]

Absolutely.

[Kevin Clancy]

To say 100% confirmation bias is a whole industry. I know.

[Jack McCarthy]

Yeah.

[John Lovett]

No one's comfortable saying, I don't know, like, did the COVID come from the wet market or the lab? I don't know.

[Jack McCarthy]

Right.

[John Lovett]

I really wish I knew. It pisses me off that I don't know, I believe I could believe both. I don't know.

[Jack McCarthy]

Right. Yeah. People have shown me things that say both, both. Both seem pretty credible. I, I'm just gonna have to go with what I think it's like they.

[Kevin Clancy]

Show me pictures that the Earl the world is round.

[John Lovett]

Do you see that dude who went to the South Pole recently?

[Jack McCarthy]

That was great.

[Kevin Clancy]

And he was like, I was wrong.

[Jack McCarthy]

I was wrong. Hand up.

[Kevin Clancy]

Well, that guy was getting so much love in the comments of being like, we need more of this in the world where you're willing to admit you're wrong. And I was like, correct. That is true. We don't need to give this guy, this guy does not deserve it.

[Jack McCarthy]

An ounce of anything.

[Kevin Clancy]

Hand it to him.

[Jack McCarthy]

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[Kevin Clancy]

You know, this is probably a conflict of interest to ask this question as a political podcaster, but what do you think about the political podcasting realm? Because. Or no, I shouldn't say that, because political podcasts, I actually think the ones that are out there are good. But it's the non political podcast talking about politics that I think is insufferable. And there are some of it. They're all my favorite people. They're all like my favorite comics. I think they're all very funny. I listen to their shows about all the other topics I love and I'm like, I just don't think you should be involved in this at all.

[John Lovett]

I mean, I think like, that's one of the things Trump did really well was he went on those shows and he engaged with those people. Like, he, he like went on and talked to Theo Vaughn and Theo Vaughn asked him about doing cocaine. I was like, man, that's like, like compelling content.

[Kevin Clancy]

Yeah, but, but, but. So there's a difference between, like, compelling content and like, I wish people could watch that and like, not have that sway what they think about the election or what they're going to vote for. It's. Yeah, it's cool that he, like entertained a conversation about cocaine. I don't know if that necessarily means you should vote for him or not.

[John Lovett]

Yeah, Like, I'm trying to, like, give the, like the. I'm trying to be open minded. Like, I wish Democrats did more of these shows and they went on Theo Von show and tried convince him rather than like, scold him for talking to Trump. You definitely have step one, right?

[Kevin Clancy]

Yeah, yeah.

[John Lovett]

Like, do I wish, you know, when I watched Rogan's interview with Trump that he was like, a little more informed and pushed back on stuff and told Trump when he was wrong? Yeah, but like, I feel like that's. I could be complaining for the rest of my life if that's what I want.

[Jack McCarthy]

As someone like, who in these situations, I assume you're, you're pretty informed. Are you like, screaming at the tv?

[John Lovett]

Like, I mean, sometimes. Yeah, I don't know. I'm just used to it. Like, they just liked him. They like, here's the thing.

[Kevin Clancy]

You know what it is? Like, he, the fact that he would sit down for three hours and just talk to someone is the thing. That's what matters. It's like, there's probably a whole bunch of lies and, and phony and didn't push back all that. But it's also like these other robots just wouldn't even be able to like, physically do that. Right.

[John Lovett]

You know, there's like the, there's whether someone, your friends, it's like, you know, they're not a good guy, but they're nice to you.

[Jack McCarthy]

Yeah.

[John Lovett]

Like, that just kind of means everything. Like, he clearly was cool to Rogan. They, they built that relationship over a long time. Like, he clearly is made friends with like Taylor Luan and the Boston of the boys guys.

[Jack McCarthy]

Right.

[John Lovett]

Like, you build relationships and you get to know someone and then you see all these criticisms of him or like policy ideas he has and you're like, yeah, he's not gonna do that. He's not a bad dude. And you know, do I wish people brought a little bit of more critical eye to that conversation? Absolutely. But I also don't really think it's their job. I think it's the Democratic Party's job to go to those places and make their case and, like, do that pushing back.

[Kevin Clancy]

Do you think that they have, like, the Democrats have to stop focusing on hating Trump and being anti. Yeah. Republican. Right. To me, it's like, it's like complaining about, like, again, sports analogy. It's like complaining about the Patriots of the Yankees when your team sucks. It's like being a Jets fan. It's like, like get your own in order before you.

[John Lovett]

But I think we gotta. We gotta watch what he does, not what he says. You can't be outraged all the time. You can't go down every rabbit hole. But it's like, all right, buddy, you said you are going to bring down inflation on day one. Where's the results? You said you're gonna end the war in Ukraine on day one. Have you done it yet? Right, like, hold his feet to the fire on that. When these mass deportations happen and families are getting ripped apart from their, you know, kids from parents. Highlight those stories and the harm that's getting done.

[Kevin Clancy]

But even that, I mean, that's different. You do have to shine a light on if that conscious. Happens.

[Jack McCarthy]

Happening.

[Kevin Clancy]

But even, like, worrying about holding his feet to the fire rather than like, get your in order for the next election. You know what I mean?

[John Lovett]

But, like, the. The next election is changing anything. The next election is the midterms.

[Kevin Clancy]

Yeah, right.

[John Lovett]

He's not running again. Right. Like, he's a lame duck, but it's about just. It's a different world view and, like, proving that his is not gonna work for. Look, he said he was gonna.

[Kevin Clancy]

But isn't that. Isn't that what we just said? Like, that you shouldn't do that.

[John Lovett]

You got to do both. You got to tell people who you are, what you're for. Like, I want the Democratic Party to be the party for working people. I want us to be anti war. I want us to be anti establishment, and not just for, like, broken systems. I want to get money out of politics. Those are things I want the Democratic Party to be for. Right. But I also want voters who think that, like, Trump is this populist who's working for the working people to realize that all the Naga voters who went to the DC Inaugural stuff got left outside while, like, the tech oligarchs sat on stage. What does that tell you about. He's got his ear, you know, but.

[Kevin Clancy]

That'S where I'm, like, trying to get good information. You can't. Like, you're not going to change their minds. There's nothing you can do to convince people who love Donald Trump that, like, they're not. They're never going to see the lights. Why even waste your time, love?

[John Lovett]

No, like, there's like, MAGA diehard loyalists. If you're wearing a Trump hat, you're going to rallies, you're probably with him for life. But there are, and vice versa, by the way, 10% of swing voters that decide every single election.

[Jack McCarthy]

Yeah.

[John Lovett]

And like, Democrats convince themselves that all we have to do is turn out our people, and what we really need to do is persuade people. And this is what Obama was really good at.

[Kevin Clancy]

Right.

[John Lovett]

Like, there was this story Obama would tell. One of our organizers in, like, Virginia or something knocked on a door and it was this old lady, and she's like, hey, you know, I'm so and so from the Obama campaign. I was just wondering who you're voting for and who your husband's voting for. Like, that's what you do in field work. Right. And she's like, honey, who are you voting for? And the guy yells back, I'm voting for the racial slur. And like, that's a horrible story. No, this is. An organizer told him this. Okay, that's a horrible story that someone would talk that way. But I think it also spoke to an ability he had to connect with someone who was, like, openly racist.

[Kevin Clancy]

Yeah. Yeah.

[John Lovett]

Because that person thought, that's crazy. He, you know, cared about them economically or on all these other issues. Like, there's more to the story that I'm forgetting.

[Kevin Clancy]

But it was just interesting.

[John Lovett]

Obama would, like, he just tried to talk to people. He tried to convince them. He tried to make his case and, like, not make you feel stupid if you disagree.

[Kevin Clancy]

That's, I mean, the, the, the, the, the feeling, like the condescension, I think, is a big problem.

[John Lovett]

Yeah. There is a real feel, whether it's.

[Kevin Clancy]

Real perceived, whatever that is the issue, you know? Yeah. It's like people feel like they've been talked to, like they're idiots, and then they can kind of stick it to you by, like, I think that got people out to vote that ordinarily wouldn't, you know, because it's like, I want to prove this person wrong because, again, it's about the other guy losing more than your guy winning half.

[John Lovett]

For sure.

[Kevin Clancy]

You know, for sure.

[John Lovett]

And part of Trump was a backlash to Obama and all the things he did and what he stood for, etc. And I think there is this pendulum.

[Jack McCarthy]

That just swings when you say. You say we. Well, Democratic Party line is that. Do you say that as a Democrat or do you. Are you involved in the dnc?

[John Lovett]

I'm not involved at all. Just as a Democrat. Just as shorthand.

[Kevin Clancy]

I mean, it's like I say we were the Mets, man. I'm telling you, it's all just like irrational fandom.

[John Lovett]

What's your billionaire insider trader guy's name?

[Jack McCarthy]

You mean, you walk your tone in this house, but the. You. You were saying earlier, you said you. We. The Democratic Party is in kind of like a dejected fate phase. I actually think we. I'm a registered Democrat, should stay in that. Because I do. I think like, what we're saying with, like, if we go back to how like, like, I actually think over the last four years, I think the. The game flipped and personally, I believe that conservatives became the whiners. And yeah, I think traditionally, historically, the Democratic Party is the whining party. And I think that changed where it was just like, we won. We won and all.

[John Lovett]

Right.

[Jack McCarthy]

You know, like all the J6, all that stuff. I think we. I think Democrats need to stay not whining. And I actually think that's an argument for getting really electoral college because once he won the popular. I was like, he won. Like, what do you want me to do? Guy 1 yeah, there's really nothing you can get worked up about.

[Kevin Clancy]

Yeah, I mean, the electoral college at this point, though, like, there is. I mean, you need that just out of representation, right? Out of like, like population issue. Like, there's.

[John Lovett]

Yeah. I just think it's like almost impossible to change and get rid of. I hear you. Look, I, I don't want to be the party miners. This is the thing that always. It surprised me about like, this intense kind of bro affection for Trump because he just all the time. And it would drive me crazy. Like, if you played pickup hoops with someone who complained that much, you would hate them in five minutes.

[Kevin Clancy]

And.

[Jack McCarthy]

And what I found as someone who did play sports, it was. I always saw as people who like, still trying to chase like a sport. Sports locker room. And it was often people who didn't play sports. I was like, no, this isn't what it's like. Like this bro.

[Kevin Clancy]

It's like you read a Wikipedia page on how to be a locker room and that. Yeah. You're not actually it. You know, but that's again, where I think it comes from. Like a. It's just. He's just really good at rallying people. Right. Like, it's just a popularity PR contest that he's always, that doesn't surprise me because he's always been good at that in that regard, you know.

[John Lovett]

Yeah.

[Kevin Clancy]

And it's, it's just point out what sucks about the other side. Come up with these. You know, we're going to call it the Gulf of America. I'm going to invent the External Revenue Service. I'm going to buy Greenland. I'm going to, you know, these are just dumb things.

[John Lovett]

But people go like, yeah, and he wants, like, Democrats to freak out and we need to not freak out about silly and focus on things that matter. And that's kind of like what I'm getting at with the feet to the fire thing. It's like, find the things that matter, matter to people, like inflation, like cost of living, ending wars, for real. Focus on that. But like, when I say we, it's like, I'm a Democrat, but basically, long story short, like, I thought Joe Biden was too old to run in 2020, and we kind of were critical of him. That White House hated us for like four years. I got some friends of mine worked in there and they were cool, they were helpful, but, like, we never got an interview with him or anything. Not that we deserved one. I'm not saying that because you were.

[Kevin Clancy]

Just critical, because we were critical and.

[John Lovett]

They held grudges and they were like, screw those.

[Jack McCarthy]

But that's, I say probably you might not think you deserved it. I would venture to guess you guys deserved.

[John Lovett]

I think it would be smart of them to like, try build progressive media the way Trump is always on.

[Kevin Clancy]

I don't know if you notice about your face on that. It's like that, that is, they're just dumb about. It's just like you just, it feels like you're all like, living in the past and you gotta, like, get with the times and realize that maybe it shouldn't be this way with some of the. But it is. So get with it.

[John Lovett]

You know, I just want to, like, my, what I want to do going forward is just be as honest as we were the night after that debate. Just be like, yeah, that's like the guy on my team. But that was terrible. And voter. It's insulting to tell voters to vote for that.

[Kevin Clancy]

I, I, I can't understand though. Like, it's got to be infuriating where it's like, you know, if, like I was watching Trump dance to the YMCA with his sword in his hand, cutting that, that cake, and it's like, I don't know, somebody else, like, Obama wore the Tan suit, it was the end of the world. But, like, he can dance and pretend the microphone's a dick and say dumb. And it just doesn't matter how many times throughout the la, through both of his, you know, the eight last eight years, whatever were you like, this is it.

[John Lovett]

He's done a million times.

[Kevin Clancy]

Like, like little things like, oh, he. You know, he. He says bigly, right. All the way up to, like, felonies, but it doesn't stick. And I don't know if that's a testament to him or just the world we're in right now, because it's like, if. If there's nothing that would. That they would bail on him for nothing. And that's, like, great for them. Maybe not great for the world or the political system or whatever, but it's like, that is. That's what you need, that type of.

[Jack McCarthy]

Undying, unwavering, the most timeless tweet of all time is the. The one where it's like, I'd like to see old Donald Trump wiggle himself out of this one. And then a parenthetical says Trump wiggles himself out easily. Ah, well, nevertheless.

[Kevin Clancy]

Nevertheless.

[John Lovett]

I love that.

[Kevin Clancy]

I mean, like, nothing sticks.

[John Lovett]

You point out. Like, he went into. He was not a politician at a time when people hated politicians. He's one of the most famous people in the world. The Apprentice branded him as a billionaire genius, right? So he had all these. He had this identity that was so fully formed and people liked it. And like, Shane Gillis has a bit on this where you watch the first debate and he started going in on, like, Rand Paul and telling him his hair sucked or whatever, and he was like, I don't know, we could do this.

[Jack McCarthy]

Yeah, we can do this, right?

[John Lovett]

And I remember, like. Like, I remember canceling plans with friends that I hadn't seen in a long time because I wanted to watch a debate because they were thrilling to watch in 2015. Now, I thought he was going to lose in the general election, but there's a piece of that Democrats have to find. It's like, how are we catching people's attention and keeping it and, like, driving the conversation? And Trump is a master at that. And Democrats have not figured it out. And part of it is, like, the media infrastructure, like, Fox News. Like, I don't want to be the whiners, but, like, Fox was a pain in my ass for. For 10 years because they would just manufacture the tan suit, the madrasa thing.

[Jack McCarthy]

I think there's a gray Poupon one I liked a lot.

[John Lovett]

Yeah, use Grapes, mustard.

[Jack McCarthy]

That one. That one doesn't get a lot of. That one's, you know, craziest dude.

[Kevin Clancy]

Yellow mustards.

[Jack McCarthy]

And like, that's crazy where this press.

[John Lovett]

Guys, we'd be like, sure, there's a controversy you might get asked about, about, you know, Gray Poupon. Like, I was staffing the interview where he wasn't wearing a flag pin one time, and they were like, why not? And they glued up into a thing. So there's this, like, infrastructure challenge. I think the reason I was pissed at the Biden people for not talking to us is we were. We are trying to build, like, progressive media infrastructure.

[Kevin Clancy]

Yeah.

[John Lovett]

On the left. It's like, they should be backing you.

[Kevin Clancy]

Like, you know, instead of.

[John Lovett]

They were not.

[Kevin Clancy]

They are not. But that's. That's like, that's a problem.

[John Lovett]

But we need more of us. And we also need, like, culture shows. Like, seeing Stavros come out and talk about politics the way he did. Like, that's the platform.

[Kevin Clancy]

There was that one clip that went. Went viral.

[John Lovett]

Super viral.

[Kevin Clancy]

And, you know, Stavi is a very. He is a very smart guy and very well spoken. But I remember that clip being like some pretty normal, totally normal basic thought. And people were like, this is incredible.

[John Lovett]

It was in the middle of this dumb conversation of like, we need a Joe Rogan for the left. And it's like, no, we just need people with big voices on the left to talk about this stuff in an interesting way.

[Kevin Clancy]

Yeah.

[John Lovett]

And Savvy came out and said, I don't know him. Starros came out and said those things. And I was like, I wonder if these people know he was on a show called Cometown. I bet they don't. And I bet they wouldn't, like, show if they listen.

[Kevin Clancy]

So. So it is really interesting to watch how, like, right now there's always some crazy internal drama at Barstool. Right. And do you know Kirk, man? Do you know?

[John Lovett]

I. I listen. I catch a lot of, like, I catch your show. I catch all the clips you guys do. Like, but. But this was a great explode on people.

[Kevin Clancy]

Yeah.

[Jack McCarthy]

So he's.

[John Lovett]

He's.

[Kevin Clancy]

He's an absolute lunatic. But he. He went off and he was fighting Dave while Dave was dealing with this drama with this. With this girl at her company, Brianna, and. And there's a lot of gossip about her.

[John Lovett]

And when he dated this.

[Kevin Clancy]

Yes, yes, yes. But the point being, long story long, like, all of a sudden, Kirk had this female tick tock fan group that found him, and they were like, we love this guy because they Just found one clip of him saying what they wanted to hear about Dave. About Dave, Brianna, whatever it was. And it was like if you girls watched any of his other, you would be like, he's a monster. But, but the world this, these days, if you find somebody that confirms your bias and you like, they just, you just latch on and that's it. And like, you know, I, I guess maybe you want to do the honorable thing and like not play into that or you want to win because it's like you got to get dirty if you want those people to, to, to you know, back you or join you or whatever. And it's just a. The Internet's an ugly, ugly, ugly world.

[John Lovett]

I don't know how you guys deal with the like internal drama, barstool stuff. Like it's a hype house with the like team whatever on the outside going after you stuff. They would make me insane.

[Jack McCarthy]

I just carry my head in the sand.

[John Lovett]

Just ignore it.

[Jack McCarthy]

Yeah, it gets to me too. I find the Internet to be very illogical and just illogical bothers me where like it's just people being like you that sucks. I'm like, you did. I posted it a minute ago. You haven't had time to watch it yet. Like, why are you saying that?

[John Lovett]

For no reason.

[Jack McCarthy]

Like, it does, like, it just does. Like the, the, the steps you would, that would. It would take to say that. I don't, I don't just mean to me. I mean to anybody. Because it happens to everybody.

[John Lovett]

Yeah.

[Jack McCarthy]

Like I just, I can't put my plate. I put myself into that kind of mind and that makes me uncomfortable. So I don't to it.

[Kevin Clancy]

I mean, we're still so at the infancy of all of it, you know what I mean? The Internet as a whole and then specifically social media and the like, we are not meant to be this connected. You know what I mean? And so I don't know how like the long lasting effects are going to be insane because I mean the, the amount of just bad, depressing, awful that goes on here and you're just exposed to it all the time.

[John Lovett]

Yeah, it's going to get worse too. I mean, yeah, I turn on Twitter and it's like there's just snuff videos everywhere. Yeah, you tweet something.

[Jack McCarthy]

Twitter's become unusable.

[John Lovett]

Hardcore porn. Every reply.

[Jack McCarthy]

Honestly, I think maybe something that might happen, like a path. Like he's got a dumb idea. You know, actually that's when you know it's going.

[Kevin Clancy]

Now let me. This is gonna be, this is gonna Be. There's gonna be an Elon Musk take.

[Jack McCarthy]

No, no, this. This isn't. It actually isn't Lynn idea. It's just. It might happen. Like, I. I think that we as a society killed the Internet faster than we killed the planet. Like, I think the Internet's unusable. I find it.

[John Lovett]

Yeah.

[Jack McCarthy]

I find social be awesome.

[John Lovett]

It was so fun for a while.

[Jack McCarthy]

Like, social media, it makes is unusable. I think. I think even worse than social media is, like, webs are websites, you know, website. It's unusable.

[John Lovett]

The ad tech breaks my computer. I have a brand new computer. I go to like the Reuters.com. it just crashes my computer. How is this how we're running back in railroad.

[Jack McCarthy]

So I think maybe we're gonna kill the Internet and then we got off the Internet.

[John Lovett]

This is an interesting point. Lovett was making this case last night that, like, throughout history, things become status symbols and they get built up and then over time that gets like, in the 1800s in Europe, like, you wanted to be fat and pale.

[Jack McCarthy]

Yes.

[John Lovett]

Right. Because it meant you didn't work in the fields. And then all of a sudden, tans were a status symbol and made you hot. Thought the iPhone was a status symbol. And now there. He thinks there will be people who like, make a show of getting rid of their phones as a status symbol and get us off them. I would like that to be the case.

[Kevin Clancy]

Yeah, he's made that point before that, like, young kids, you know, when you're young, you. You hate what, like, your parents. Like, so if your parents are on the phone all the time, you're like. But I think there's something inherent about, like, the connect. Like having access to everything, you know?

[Jack McCarthy]

Yeah. It's so intuitive and addicting that. But, like, like, I. I vividly remember, like, as a kid, always seeing my dad read the paper, and I'm like, that's what losers do. So I still never read a paper to this day.

[Kevin Clancy]

But you know what? Like, I think it's more like you watched your dad watch TV all the time and you were not gonna put down that tv. You know what I mean? You were not gonna not watch tv.

[Jack McCarthy]

Yeah.

[Kevin Clancy]

You know what I mean?

[John Lovett]

Yeah.

[Kevin Clancy]

That's because it's just like, well, I want to look at porn, man.

[John Lovett]

For me, that was cigarettes. Like, both my parents smoked, and I would watch my dad, like, crush a soft pack of Camel unfiltered. Like, ball it up and try to chuck it and make a basket in the little corner thing and miss it every Time. And I was like, I'm not doing that. I smell, I don't want.

[Jack McCarthy]

But at some point you do. You see what the older, the older generation is inherently lame if it's what they're doing.

[John Lovett]

Except for millennials rebel against it.

[Jack McCarthy]

It's just the way society has worked forever. Again, we haven't dealt with something as addicting as the phone. But like at some. There is. Even is like the status symbol too. Not being online.

[John Lovett]

Yeah.

[Jack McCarthy]

It already exists.

[John Lovett]

It's a new thing. You're right.

[Jack McCarthy]

Mega celebrities like, you know, we talk about Clooney. Clooney's not tweeting. Seinfeld's not tweeting.

[Kevin Clancy]

Even, even those pictures which now become their own corny thing. But when you post, post a picture of from the past and everyone goes, not a phone in sight. Everyone just enjoying the moment. It's cliche and corny, but they are praising that behavior.

[Jack McCarthy]

Yeah.

[Kevin Clancy]

They're not like, look at these losers who didn't have phones. They're like, that's awesome. Awesome that that was that way.

[John Lovett]

But even like getting here today, I'm like, oh, thank God I got this thing.

[Kevin Clancy]

Yeah. I mean it's like you become so stupid and dumb without it.

[Jack McCarthy]

It's in that, that article I read the the Antisocial Century. They had a study, I think it was Mark Empley Epley, maybe at the University of Chicago and he's a sociologist. And the study was people had to just take public transportation to work. And some parts of the study had to talk to people. Other parts could just sit there quietly. And the part of society, the part of the group that got to. To talk to people, unwilling people, just like they had to, they had to strike up, strike up a conversation like reported like 50 more happiness or something like some insane number.

[Kevin Clancy]

Well, remember the one you talked about a couple weeks ago was that was cra. It was, it was like a study that was you could either sit here and do nothing or push this button and it will intentionally shock you. People did that rather than do nothing.

[John Lovett]

It's a good ass time to shock yourself, dude.

[Jack McCarthy]

One guy went 190 times.

[Kevin Clancy]

I, I read something. This is where I go off on my conspiratorial like tin tinfoil hat or just crazy thoughts. I can't remember exactly what it was, but it was some sort of discovery of technology, like ancient whatever society that had technology that like we never thought they had. And it basically broke the mold of the idea that technology is always linear and always getting better. And the idea that it was. It was cyclical. Like, these people had this and then lost it. And then like, the. The knowledge of the information was lost forever. And. And you know, they didn't get it back until several hundred years later in a different, different region or whatever, which would, I mean, that would just like, break the entire, like, way we view the world. You know what I mean? Like, the thought that maybe something happens catastrophic with the, you know, the climate or whatever, this all burns down, and then people are like, oh, these guys used to have like, iPhones. We didn't know that. We thought that, you know what I mean, it would just change the way you view the entire.

[John Lovett]

I think, like, the history, technology. It's like, I'm here, I'm glad we're moving away from the Silicon Valley of like, we're connecting people, we're making a closer meta is where you see your.

[Kevin Clancy]

Like, I'm here to make a billion dollars.

[John Lovett]

The printing press happens. People talk about it as this thing that, like, made the world better, but I think for like 100 years it was like people printing pamphlets about burning witches. It was like creating bad stuff and that we're in the supercharged version of that now. Hopefully we course correct and figure it out. God knows what, like, AI will will do. Or Zuckerberg like, getting rid of all the rules.

[Kevin Clancy]

How about that weasel just flipping.

[John Lovett]

What? Like, I love Mark being like, I don't know what happened to the cultured Facebook.

[Jack McCarthy]

You.

[Kevin Clancy]

You made it. Yeah, did you see that? That one. It was like, at the very end of the interview, I think Rogan said something basically being like, yeah, but like, it's a bunch of people just like, saying that they've changed when, like, they really haven't. And he, like, kind of looked at him like, like, you. Yeah. And Zuck was like, quiet. And I. I can't remember exactly how he worded it, but I was like, oh, that was a direct shot at you for being blatantly phony right now. And it went right over your head. I mean, that. That is the. Was insane to just be like, oh, yeah, no, no. We just happen to like, change. Change modes now. Like, right after this election, we now decided that we're gonna undo everything we just did. Like, off, man.

[John Lovett]

Do you think that super villain drives me crazy?

[Jack McCarthy]

Do you think that might be. And these are all just things I've convinced myself. But do you think that might be a silver lining of a second term of trauma is the proximity to billionaires and maybe people realizing, like, we have too much a Lot of these, like yeah, like there's I, I was thinking that like back. I don't know, let's call it. I feel like last March maybe I read that inflation dip below 25 and I read that that's what Reagan ran on that like in like his morning. It's morning in America was like inflation was down to 24 war or whatever it was. And I was like how is Biden getting killed for at the time it was right around the same for something that Ronald Reagan, Reagan ran on and won like everybody. And I was obviously corporate greed, right? Not obviously, but that was what I thought where I was like well they're just. And I, I understand it in a business sense where like if you get someone to pay money like X amount of dollars is you're not going to bring it down. You've realized that they're going to pay it. Why would you ever take it down now? So like is there, is, is this, are this many billionaires being this front facing. Do you think that could have the populace go why the are all these guys in charge?

[John Lovett]

Yeah, I mean I think it could like kind of unravel the populism as being phony. Like a lot of often there's populism is used as a means to like do favors for oligarchs and cut taxes for rich people. And I think on the inflation point it's like we all, all, we all compare ourselves to the next thing and like that's the worst thing we can do, right? Compare and despair is like one of the AA steps I think. And it's like of course, yeah, it's like if it's, prices still feel higher because they are in absolute terms but inflation is down, you're like who cares? You know, my life isn't better. I think like what's, what's sort of, what's not. Not frustrating. What, what is hopeful And I guess about what we're talking about is like these big problems are things government could address if we wanted to. Like, like you could have a national service program for all 18 year olds where you do like city year or the Peace Corps. You don't have to go in the military, like, but a way to bring kids together and build community and like get us off our phones. We could do that if we wanted to. Kids might hate it, but we could do it. Like we could, we could tax billionaires and strip back some of that money and put it into other things. We just have to have political will and like those are things a good political Party would talk about and fight for.

[Jack McCarthy]

Is there a reason the Democrat, like the Democratic Party, I feel like they've obviously people, the, the, the left as a whole has always been very pro let's tax billionaires. I don't feel like I've heard that much. At least I'm sure people have said it, but it hasn't been a driving point. I don't think from left, left owned White Houses.

[John Lovett]

Like I don't think it was a drive. You know, I can't remember how much Biden talked about. I mean like, like income inequality has been a huge conversation. Like Elizabeth Warren was talking about like a billionaires tax. Just kind of a question of how you do it. And I think there are Democrats who, you know, like have hedge fund guys who are their big donors.

[Jack McCarthy]

And that's what I mean, hard.

[Kevin Clancy]

Like when you have the Clintons, you have the Nancy Pelosi stories, it's like all you are just lining your pockets. You know, it's, it's so, it's like all of it, you know, feels like.

[Jack McCarthy]

But is that, is that because of, of donors and stuff like that that people refrain from criticizing?

[John Lovett]

Like, it's just, it's sort of who you listen to. Like, I do think, you know, there was a time when like Al Gore would talk about this stuff all the time and it was called like economic warfare. I can't remember the terms they use. So let me think of a better example than that. Obama in the financial crisis criticized the Wall street dudes who all got their bonuses after the bailout and called them fat cats and they lost their mind.

[Jack McCarthy]

Yes, I remember that.

[John Lovett]

Right. And they freaked out. And I think we overcorrected to that and like used less direct language when I think more direct language would have been good in that moment. Because the reality was the US government was the only thing preventing dudes with pitchforks from going to their houses in the Hamptons.

[Jack McCarthy]

Right, right, right.

[John Lovett]

You know, so it's like how you, I think you could be a little more direct in the language.

[Jack McCarthy]

Yeah. Like, you pay a big tax. We don't let people come kill you. You've seen movies, right?

[Kevin Clancy]

Like, you know, I mean, honestly, I like, as we're talking through all of this, it's like you just need some Batman. Burn Gotham to the ground.

[John Lovett]

Some good leaders.

[Kevin Clancy]

There's no. But there's, you know, it's just like even those good leaders probably get in, in place and they're like, oh, I can't actually change anything here. The system's rigged. There's like, this is why lobbyists and.

[John Lovett]

Like this is the only place that I like. I really, I, I want if anyone like people might listen to this and think I'm. This guy's full of. He's just some hat black political guy. But like I do think who we elect matters. You don't have to be in the right party. You have to be a good person and like you can make changes that impact things like Obama, the Affordable Care act gave like 20 some odd million people health care. It's not a perfect program. There's lots of flaws. It's up but like you can do big good things. You just have to care.

[Jack McCarthy]

See that the caring that that's my political party. It's like just leave people on be nice to, to him. But the like when you said piece.

[Kevin Clancy]

Of peanut the squirrel, bro, we got in a heated debate about peanut squirrel.

[John Lovett]

That was weird. John.

[Kevin Clancy]

I'll just get all your. Let all your pets get killed.

[Jack McCarthy]

I, I just. The logic made sense the lot like. But the.

[John Lovett]

Libertarians.

[Jack McCarthy]

Yeah, what was it?

[Kevin Clancy]

Not caring. You said caring and.

[Jack McCarthy]

Yeah, but that was a dumb thing I said before the important thing.

[Kevin Clancy]

Sorry, I shouldn't have interrupted you.

[Jack McCarthy]

I don't remember.

[Kevin Clancy]

No, yeah, you're saying just let Carol. Yeah, that's why I said but there.

[Jack McCarthy]

No, but I was saying again. I wish I didn't say that because it was so dumb, but I, I, There was like that we keep saying the one thing as soon as I said I went that was lame. But like, I honestly forget what I was saying.

[John Lovett]

That's okay. I do like, I think it's easy. Oh, wait.

[Jack McCarthy]

Sorry.

[John Lovett]

Sorry.

[Jack McCarthy]

The. It's always how it works. Like with, with like the Obamacare aca.

[Kevin Clancy]

Yeah.

[Jack McCarthy]

Like people who. I guess. So where did it start being called Obamacare? With Obama.

[John Lovett]

I think Republicans called it Obamacare almost.

[Kevin Clancy]

In a negative way. Right.

[Jack McCarthy]

So then when people are like losing their aca Affordable Care act aren't like, don't you feel bad if you've, if you branded Obamacare and they're like. And like, yeah, we're gonna trick those idiots. Oh.

[John Lovett]

The lowest Trump's poll ratings have ever been was when they were trying to repeal Obamacare. Like these things do matter. I think people like some shit breaks through real policy stuff that impacts you. It does matter and it can change things. It's like it's always going to be in a range. He's always gonna have like 40 of the country loves him no matter what. But like he'll dip down to like 42, 43, 41. When he does things that are bad, like the 2017 tax cut was a tax cut for the richest people on the planet. So broke people got, got nothing like 50 bucks of a tax cut. Right. And they're going to try to extend those and it's going to cost $5 trillion or whatever. While Elon Musk says he's going to cut 2 trillion. Well, the only way you can do that is cut into Social Security or Medicare or the defense budget. And they say they're not going to do those things. So they're going to just like, I don't know. I don't know where they're going to find this money.

[Kevin Clancy]

Yeah, they just find it.

[Jack McCarthy]

They just.

[Kevin Clancy]

Yeah.

[John Lovett]

So this is where like the rubber meets the road and you got to kind of like lift up the things they're trying to do, right?

[Jack McCarthy]

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[Kevin Clancy]

By volume do you, do you feel like there's a. Like I would be worried about sounding like an asshole right now if I was in the party, but I'd be like, I think we have to prioritize some things. Like I, I think spending as much time and effort as the Democratic Party did, talking about gender, bathrooms and, and pronouns and like that, that, like, those are progressive things and we're talking about important things that, you know, do matter to the party. So I don't want to sound like, you know, we're not talking about that anymore, but let's shut the up about that for a little bit and worry about what's going to get us back in power. You know what I mean?

[John Lovett]

I think it's hard because, like, Republicans really wanted to focus on trans people in sports and the bathroom stuff.

[Kevin Clancy]

Yeah. Yeah.

[John Lovett]

I think, like, you just have to find you just talked about these things like a human being. You know what I mean? I, I want people to live their life how they want to live their life. I think people should figure out if you're a kid in concert with your parents. I think we got to be honest that like, like there are reasonable issues to talk about a fairness in sports. If you're talking about someone who transitioned and is going from like a women's team to a men's team and calling someone like a transphobic for saying that is, is wrong and unfair to them. You know what I mean?

[Kevin Clancy]

Just like beyond this, it's a common sense thing. I said that we need a director of common sense. Yeah, they're Gonna dominate the sport. We can't do this.

[Jack McCarthy]

Like, but there's also like on the other side of the common sense, you'd be like, well, I, I, I, I saw the other day there are 500,000 D1 athletes under 10 are trans.

[Kevin Clancy]

So it's like, it's not even an issue.

[Jack McCarthy]

What are we talking?

[John Lovett]

Ben Shapiro doesn't care about like Ivy League swimming on a normal day. He wants to talk about this because he's trying to create a political.

[Kevin Clancy]

Nobody cares about Ivy League swimming, but all of a sudden they want to.

[John Lovett]

See like talk about this. The facts and reality in the human way. But also like kind of lift up the game that everyone's playing. But then also like things people really care about. Inflation talk about that. Like immigration. Democrats were, were on the wrong side of a lot of things in immigration. People were genuinely worried about the border. It wasn't like a made up issue. So we got to figure out how to address that and talk about it.

[Kevin Clancy]

Right.

[John Lovett]

So yeah, it's like there is like a prioritization that's got to happen.

[Jack McCarthy]

Those sound fair. The like the, I remember thinking about the trans bathroom stuff or the gender neutral bathroom stuff when that was all really like the, the hot topic and I was like, I grew up, I've lived my entire life basically, basically in Massachusetts, Rhode island and New York. It doesn't get much more blue than that.

[Kevin Clancy]

Yeah.

[Jack McCarthy]

Never had an issue in the bathroom. I genuinely don't even understand.

[John Lovett]

It's terrible.

[Jack McCarthy]

Like what, I don't even know what we're talking. I genuinely don't know.

[Kevin Clancy]

Like, was there, was there an incident that happened?

[John Lovett]

Like what, what suggestion? The suggestion is like, what underpins this? Is this. What they're trying to say is like gay people or trans people, they're going to go after your kids.

[Kevin Clancy]

Yeah.

[John Lovett]

And I think that's the, where you have to push back.

[Kevin Clancy]

Yeah.

[John Lovett]

Like, right. That's just manufactured.

[Kevin Clancy]

Yes. And fear mongering. Weird. Yeah. Yeah.

[John Lovett]

Also, why are you and like AOC is really good about this. She's like, okay, so you're not going to let kids who've transitioned to play on like youth sports teams, who's going to do the checking? Is the coach going to like do a spot check on the field? Might lift up the, the shorts and like take a peek, see what are we talking about? The is wrong with you if you want to do that. Yeah.

[Kevin Clancy]

So you like aoc?

[John Lovett]

I do. I mean I think she's a normal person. Person who talks like if you watch her Instagram lives. She talks like a normal person. She lays it out, she speaks honestly. I think she could sit in this chair and talk to you guys.

[Kevin Clancy]

Yeah, I, I do think that too, but I also think she's very divisive.

[John Lovett]

And yeah, they lifted her up and polarized her and made her thing.

[Kevin Clancy]

That's, I think, what my ultimate. Like, no matter who you pick next, the other sides and for both sides are gonna hate that person, dig up on them, tear them down. And so it's like, can you even really get somebody's best effort or honest effort or whatever? Because it's, it's just inherently such a dirty game.

[John Lovett]

What sucks? I mean, maybe Trump has changed that. Like, it shouldn't be that you have to be a nerd boy scout from age 10 until.

[Kevin Clancy]

Yeah.

[John Lovett]

You know, when you run for office to, like, get through this process. I don't want anyone like that. I want someone that's not normal.

[Kevin Clancy]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jack McCarthy]

An Onion article ages ago, probably 12, 14 years ago, where it was like, I think the headline was something like, like, every presidential candidate is no longer viable due to Facebook. And I was like, oh, that's funny. Yeah, it's true. Time I was like, I, I, I remember I was hungover in bed on the Blackout tour reading that article, and I was like, that's true. I'm off the list.

[Kevin Clancy]

Yeah, like, like, like, there, there will be. Well, I guess I can tie this into to my next question. Like, will you vote for Portnoy when he runs for president? Because, because we're going to have a, we'll have a president soon where we've seen their sex tape. It'll happen. Federal crime.

[John Lovett]

But Trump, I think, I wonder if he's kind of changed, Changed the whole game on, like, vetting of candidates and things. Like, you.

[Jack McCarthy]

Yeah, I would imagine.

[Kevin Clancy]

Well, the. At least for a little while. You can't be like, wait, you're gonna disqualify me from. For this. Because did you see who not only won, but, like, was the most popular guy in the world?

[John Lovett]

Right.

[Kevin Clancy]

So that, that definitely changes things.

[John Lovett]

I think Obama changed this. I mean, like, Bill Clinton was like, I did not inhale guy. Obama talked about doing drugs, right?

[Kevin Clancy]

Yeah, yeah.

[John Lovett]

Pain and things. Like.

[Jack McCarthy]

So it evolves so crazy to think about that, like, like, just how much the world has changed in 15 years?

[Kevin Clancy]

10.

[Jack McCarthy]

Like, yeah, I forgot Obama, like, Obama smoked like a little weed, Right. In Hawaii maybe, or something like that.

[John Lovett]

He smoked a lot of weed. But then, yeah, you know, they don't.

[Jack McCarthy]

No, I'm saying what a Cop, too.

[John Lovett]

He talked about smoking weed, but then his book, he was like, coke, if you could afford it. Oh, that's a new thing. Come on. We think George Bush wasn't.

[Kevin Clancy]

Oh, man.

[Jack McCarthy]

Didn't Bush, like, crash his car at Yale?

[John Lovett]

They get a dynamic or something?

[Kevin Clancy]

If George Bush wasn't a war criminal, he'd be awesome.

[John Lovett]

It'd probably be fun to, like, sit in a box with that first pitch.

[Kevin Clancy]

When he threw that strike at the World series after 9, 11.

[John Lovett]

That was pretty cool, man. Yeah. Like, we did, like, normal people that can make it through this process without having their families ripped apart and inspire people, but also convince people that don't agree with them or at least make those people feel respected.

[Jack McCarthy]

I almost feel like you got to.

[Kevin Clancy]

Be, like, single, which I know you like. That doesn't. Doesn't, like, fly, right? Everyone, like, you know, you need. But, like, to me, I would not put my family through what you got to go through. It's like, if I want to do it, fine, but you're gonna, like, dig up on, like, my daughter's going to school or, like, you know, my. My wife now has to worry about everything. It's like, I want someone who's just solely focused on this, you know?

[John Lovett]

Yeah.

[Kevin Clancy]

Because. Or I guess, you know, the whole. Your whole family just has to be down to ride and deal with all the.

[John Lovett]

But they gotta be down ride. It's a lot.

[Kevin Clancy]

Yeah. So who. So I guess is. Do you even have, like a. I guess. You said Wes Moore was the guy.

[John Lovett]

He's just, like, a cool guy.

[Kevin Clancy]

Is there somebody waiting in the wing zone? It's like, all right, next election, it's him.

[John Lovett]

I don't think so. I think they got to. People got to step up. They got to do stuff, give speeches, like, lift up issues. Go.

[Kevin Clancy]

Telling you someone's going to convince him at some point, he doesn't want to do it. Huh?

[Jack McCarthy]

Why? No, he would.

[Kevin Clancy]

No, he would never. He would never. But I. But I honestly, like, he's a trust Trump figure where it's like, I'm only half joking. I think a lot of people would. What he did with the. The barstool fund and things like that, like, resonate with people. He would never do it just because of all the things we've talked about, how much it sucks. But, like, you know, you almost do need to find someone like that where it's like, all right, he had real life, had a business, like, makes right decisions, you know?

[John Lovett]

Well, Cubans will be the person people talk about in that kind of vein.

[Jack McCarthy]

Yeah.

[Kevin Clancy]

Yeah.

[John Lovett]

Like, there's all. There's always, like, oh, we need a business guy in government. Like, it's always a little bit of, like, not how it works.

[Jack McCarthy]

It's politics. I always think of it as, like, it's just not. It's not just. It's obviously much. Much more than that, but, like, very largely, the position is just our representative to the world and kind of the leader of the world, in a sense. And I think that's. That's kind of. That's why I don't like Trump, as I just. I'm like, he doesn't represent anybody. I don't think. Like. Like, his. His actual upbringing, his personality are just, like, things that, when I was brought up, like, we taught not to be right. All of them, top to bottom. And I, like, Like, I. I think it's so silly to have, like, the. Would you have a beer with this guy? But, like, maybe it was real.

[Kevin Clancy]

I don't know. Like, yeah, there's definitely. That's a real. Whether right or wrong, it's a thing that, like, will affect.

[John Lovett]

For sure. It's like, do you want this person on your TV for four years? You live with them. Innocence. Yeah. You know, they have to wear well with you. And, like, that's a real thing. It's not just a beer, but, like, they're part of your life, I think. I wonder if Trump. The Trump coin thing was a real error, in my view.

[Kevin Clancy]

You think so?

[John Lovett]

It was just such a naked grift. Maybe people won't care. I don't know. But you saw, like, even the crypto guys were like, yo, this is up.

[Kevin Clancy]

Yeah.

[John Lovett]

What are you doing?

[Jack McCarthy]

Oh, really?

[John Lovett]

Yeah.

[Jack McCarthy]

But he's like, at this point, he's done 10,000 of them. Right. Like, you had the Bibles and the. Yeah.

[John Lovett]

The day before your inauguration. I don't know. He's just gonna. He's trying to make so much money. That's a thing that. I wonder if people who voted for him will start to notice and it will bother them. Probably not.

[Kevin Clancy]

Spoiler alert.

[John Lovett]

I don't know.

[Kevin Clancy]

They bought it. They bought it, and they're loving.

[John Lovett]

They got the rug pulled.

[Kevin Clancy]

They just. They will spin anything, and everybody will. Everybody will spin. You know, if everyone was. Was down to spin for Kamala to say she was a great candidate, they'll spin for anything, too.

[John Lovett]

What do you guys think? Like, say someone cool and normal is a Democratic nominee. Like, how do they reach the barstool audience? What do they do? Faking it. You're Not.

[Jack McCarthy]

I was gonna say. I. I think it's such a lame.

[John Lovett]

We're just young men to say.

[Jack McCarthy]

But, like, I. I. I can only speak for myself. I. Authentic. As long as you're authentic, I like you. And, like, there's like, I. I loved walls at first.

[John Lovett]

I thought.

[Jack McCarthy]

Well, I thought walls was great until they switched. I thought, like, really onto something with, like, that. They're just weird. And then I feel like halfway through, he became, like, the football guy. Yeah.

[John Lovett]

They kind of buttoned him up.

[Jack McCarthy]

And then I thought that kind of got, like. I thought that got a little, like, inauthentic when it. Was it his debate when, like, didn't, like, his team show up in jerseys.

[John Lovett]

Yeah. The convention or something. Right?

[Jack McCarthy]

Maybe it was the convention, but it was.

[John Lovett]

Yeah.

[Kevin Clancy]

You know what you almost need is, like.

[Jack McCarthy]

Like.

[Kevin Clancy]

Like, I remember, like, Fauci wanted to talk to. Pardon my take.

[John Lovett]

He went on.

[Kevin Clancy]

Yeah, he went on. Right.

[Jack McCarthy]

Oh, did he? Oh, yeah.

[John Lovett]

Really early on in the pandemic. I remember.

[Jack McCarthy]

Really?

[Kevin Clancy]

But I. I remember thinking, like, this is like, you're. You guys. You know, somebody in Fauci's camp, like, was like, get on the phone and find me, like, the biggest podcast that can reach these guys, and we're gonna go do it, as opposed to, like, this is who I am. And I wanted. You know what I mean? Like, it's almost like Trump kind of fits Rogan in a way.

[John Lovett]

That's. That's right.

[Kevin Clancy]

And. And. And whereas Kamala, it would be like, I'm doing this because I have to, versus, like, I'm doing this because I.

[Jack McCarthy]

No, please.

[Kevin Clancy]

Yeah, like, that, like, it fits, you know? So, like, if there was a. A candidate to reach Barstool, I would be like, you would do it by coming on our shows and talking to us and stuff, but not because you're doing it to win the election, because you just are. Yeah. Like sports.

[John Lovett]

You.

[Kevin Clancy]

Like, you know, like, Like, I mean, there probably will be at some point we. We've, you know, been around long enough that you will reach a point where someone's of age and maybe in politics, and it's like, I grew up on Barstool, and. Or I know of it, and I like it, and that's why I'm on the show. And then. And then you reach them because you're just a fan of it, and then. But, like, I think it's that when you're doing it out as a PR move, I think people see through people are as dumb as they are. They're now savvy. With this, where it's like, oh, that's fake. That's manufactured. That's. You know, and that was real. That's not.

[Jack McCarthy]

It's very much like. Like, I. I kind of. What I can relate to is our show. And we did a lot of interviews for a long time, and at first they were fun because we became friendly with the people and they were coming on a lot, and it was great. And then it kind of got to a point where it was just, like, it was just celebrities promoting their show, and they didn't care about our show and they didn't care about doing, like.

[John Lovett]

A car wash. Yeah.

[Kevin Clancy]

And it was just like, same stories, same joke jokes.

[Jack McCarthy]

And then we kind of. We were kind of sitting here, and it's like, dude, I. I don't want to talk to you, man. I know you're here. I get you have a job to do. I get you have to promote something. And I. I completely understand the world you're in. But, like, I. I would say, like, podcasting kind of. For a while, there became, like, late night shows which were already dead, that we became like, come on, sit on the couch. And then you sit there. Wait me for. Wait for me to ask you the question that prompts your story. Not that we ever did that, but.

[John Lovett]

But that was what they were.

[Jack McCarthy]

That was kind of the feeling for them. And I feel like even had Kamala done Rogan, I think it would have felt like that rather than Trump felt like that show he would go on.

[Kevin Clancy]

Yeah. Like, he would have done that when he was on the Apprentice.

[John Lovett]

Yeah.

[Kevin Clancy]

You know, whether it's the president or not.

[John Lovett]

I heard Rogan talking about the interview with his boys, like, on the episode after. And he was like, Trump came in, he didn't pee. He sat down. He talked for three hours. He didn't pee. He left. He's a superpower forever. And like, yeah, I don't know the comic.

[Jack McCarthy]

I don't need to do anything human bodily. I am getting attention.

[John Lovett]

I'm recycling my.

[Jack McCarthy]

As we see, I have one need in this world. It's attention, and it's working.

[Kevin Clancy]

Even the way you, you know, you were saying, like, you wouldn't go on barstool, and now you would. Now you did. I think it's, you know, like, a step in the right direction for, like, the whole party's got to do, like, that.

[John Lovett]

I wrote these. I wrote the Cape Adam memos. Like, like, here are things walls should do. And I, like, had a bunch of barstool shows on there. I was like, do a live stream with Dave if you want to make some news.

[Kevin Clancy]

And like, dude, Dave has 100,000 people watching him. Just watch the inauguration yesterday.

[John Lovett]

That's crazy. I told. I knew. Pardon my take wouldn't have them, but obviously it said that. But I was like, talk to chaps veteran. Like, he's a super progressive guy, super smart, thoughtful, good dude. Talk to him. Make a thing of like, that you're reaching out to that audience. Talk about football, talk about being a coach. Like, none of it happened.

[Jack McCarthy]

But I think, I think Dave is from, you know, I barely know Dave anymore. But the. Not that he's changed, but we just don't talk a lot. And I do think he's ripe for the picking. Like, I. As much as he seems to be a conservative guy, I don't think he is.

[Kevin Clancy]

No, he's really not. We joke around that. He always says, like, I don't know why people think I'm conservative. It's like you're on Fox News like every other day. But he always says, I would. This is a. Actually a great point because it's probably what you're talking about with your. Your party. He's like, I will go on any show, cnn, and then don't ever invite him. Fox News invites him every day to talk about his beast things. And like, he. He would, I think, go chop it up with the Anderson Cooper or whoever, you know, but they just don't do it. And I think that was a misstep. I think, you know, he has a.

[Jack McCarthy]

Very funny clip where he's on the Adam Freeland show and Freeland. Freeland's pitching him on socialism and he agrees every step of the way until it costs him money. So, I mean, Dave and I think.

[Kevin Clancy]

The majority of barstool people are the. The prototypical. I'm financially conservative and socially liberal and like that. As cliche as it is, there's a ton of that out there.

[John Lovett]

Yeah. I mean, so he did a great video on, like, abortion rights and abortion access.

[Kevin Clancy]

Yeah, yeah, right.

[John Lovett]

Like real common sense.

[Jack McCarthy]

It's a lot of common sense.

[John Lovett]

It's common sense.

[Kevin Clancy]

Like.

[John Lovett]

But, you know, but people got to show up to the places and have those conversations and talk about it. Democrats do. So.

[Jack McCarthy]

Yeah, that's hard to find.

[John Lovett]

I just think we like that we just were bad at it.

[Kevin Clancy]

I think it takes time, too. It's like, you know, because you were right with Waltz, but it would have been a, like a forced thing. Like, it's. It takes a long time for the next couple elections. Or whoever. Eventually there will be a guy or girl that's like, like I said, he just is a part of this world. Not I'm trying to be a part of this world. Yeah, that's the difference.

[John Lovett]

Obama, authentically.

[Jack McCarthy]

Yeah.

[John Lovett]

He would have been like hoops and went home and watched Sports Center.

[Kevin Clancy]

New Rapid, like, you know, with.

[John Lovett]

What's the name? Andy? Cat.

[Jack McCarthy]

Cat.

[Kevin Clancy]

Yeah.

[John Lovett]

We did the bracket, right?

[Kevin Clancy]

That was just real.

[John Lovett]

Real thing.

[Kevin Clancy]

Yes, yes.

[John Lovett]

But like, yeah, he was a good.

[Kevin Clancy]

Blend of like, very, you know, statesman and characters. Well, and. Yeah, yeah. And age. Yeah, age matters too.

[John Lovett]

Like, he knows. He, he said to one of us a couple years ago, he's like, like, I'm barely in touch with the culture anymore. Like, I'm like on the other end of the.

[Kevin Clancy]

Well, how old was he when he, when he got like that?

[John Lovett]

Oh, my God. God, he was what, 47, 43. That hurts. I don't know how. I'm 44. That's painful if that's true. I don't even know.

[Kevin Clancy]

I mean, just, you know, like, we're talking 30, 30 years younger than the people, you know, we're talking a lifetime in between him and, and these candidates these days.

[John Lovett]

Biden was like older than Everybody at that.

[Kevin Clancy]

47.

[Jack McCarthy]

He's 47. Oh, I thought he was younger than that.

[Kevin Clancy]

Yeah, I thought he was like 43, 44. I mean, Biden was comically old. Turning to dust before our eyes.

[Jack McCarthy]

Biden was so old that like, again, probably what it affected me that, you know, I like him. Like, I genuinely was. Like, I don't think we can joke about this. Like, you know what I mean? Like, he was too old. Where I was like, stop.

[Kevin Clancy]

He's got diapers.

[Jack McCarthy]

You know what I mean? Like, it's funny to say, like, the 60 year old is old. I'm like, he's kind of dying. Stop being mean.

[John Lovett]

I know. Well, it was weird because, like, I thought he wasn't gonna run. And then he gave that State of the union everyone said was great. And then he went to Ukraine and I was like, I don't know, maybe I'm wrong. You know, I don't see the guy up close. I haven't spoken to him in years. Like, maybe he is fine and then.

[Kevin Clancy]

And then. No, but I mean, for your average, you know, 100 year old, like, I look at my parents who are like, you know, getting old and struggling to move around, but I'm like, but you're not running for president. Right?

[Jack McCarthy]

That's.

[John Lovett]

That job kills you. Yeah.

[Kevin Clancy]

When you're young. It kills you, but you age. All right, well, I think. I think you're. You guys are. I think you got. Yeah, I had to hit rock bottom in a way, fortunately. Yeah, I think. I think you might have been there, and it was like. Yeah. Do you.

[Jack McCarthy]

Do you, like, hate watch, or you, like. Are you in a disassociated?

[John Lovett]

I'm trying to be a little more just measured about it all. Like, I watched a bunch of yesterday. I'm not gonna watch everything he does.

[Kevin Clancy]

If Trump wanted to come on your show, would you do it? Have you. Have you done anything with him?

[John Lovett]

I've never done anything with him. Yeah, in a heartbeat. But would you be, like, should be tough on him. Yeah, but he doesn't want that. Like, he doesn't want a real interview. He wants. But, like, you know, I've been thinking about, should I talk to someone like Steve Bannon, like, one of his, like, top strategy guys? And, like, the question is, to what end? What am I trying to get out of that? But I want to engage with people that disagree with me, and there's so little of that dude, I know. And do it in good faith and have a conversation about it. Like, I don't want to debate.

[Jack McCarthy]

Debate.

[John Lovett]

Like, I hate that.

[Jack McCarthy]

Yeah, right.

[Kevin Clancy]

Yeah. But I do like that there's a little. Like, when there's a little tension, like, there's tension. Everything is what he described. It's, like, set up with the right people in your little bubble, and there's nothing where, like, it even used to be. Like, you. You go to town, you have to go to, like, the radio station that's popular, and there might be some disagreement there, but you have to go to, like, this station because that's all now. It's like, you just pick the one in your lane and that's it. And I think a little bit of disagreement is actually just entertaining, first of all, for sure. And also good for, you know, to.

[John Lovett]

A little tension.

[Jack McCarthy]

It's also good to just experience.

[Kevin Clancy]

You talked about.

[Jack McCarthy]

Well, it didn't kill me. So, like, you're just scared of it. And then, like, anything. Like a kid getting his tooth pulled. Like. Yeah, just watch. It's not that bad. Oh, okay.

[Kevin Clancy]

For sure. Yeah.

[John Lovett]

I'm supposed to do Jesse Waters tomorrow. I don't know if they'll cancel it because they just announced they got a Trump interview, but, you know, it'll be fun.

[Kevin Clancy]

Yeah.

[John Lovett]

Yeah. Slap me around a little bit.

[Jack McCarthy]

But I think that's great. Like. Yeah, because. But then, honestly, like, then you'll probably go. And you'll be like, like Trump and Obama. You're like, ah, Jesse's not a bad guy.

[Kevin Clancy]

But I also think that's what people should, like, feel about you guys. I'm sure there are. There's people who are, you know, call you libcock, blah, blah, blah.

[John Lovett]

Oh, yeah.

[Kevin Clancy]

But if they were to, like, you know, if you were to just talk about, like, like the Larry Bird Celtics, he'd be like, I don't know. He's a regular dude, you know?

[John Lovett]

Yeah.

[Kevin Clancy]

Show more of that, I think, side of your. Of you guys. And that goes a long way.

[John Lovett]

Normal.

[Jack McCarthy]

I think.

[Kevin Clancy]

Normal, bro. That's the model.

[Jack McCarthy]

Social media, obviously, all that stuff's badly. I think podcasting has, like, a lot to do with that because you just like, I like my guys with my topic. And it's like, dude, just listen to another thing today.

[Kevin Clancy]

And if they. And if you like strafing that topic, they stop listening.

[Jack McCarthy]

Yeah.

[Kevin Clancy]

So the audience and everything, the algorithm, audience capture. Yeah, it's. It's not. It's not even about subscribers anymore. It's just like, pick this topic, find this audience and hammer it and. Might be good for business, but it's bad for, like, everything else because it's like someone like. Like, we made our career. You go to barstool. We wrote about sports, lifestyle jokes. And you would get a little of everything on the website. If you try to do that now, like, I'm trying to. I do that with, like, on social media with. With like, one minute, man. It's like a little bit of everything. If you try to do that on, like, YouTube or something. Does not work.

[John Lovett]

How do you pick? I mean, you know, I met your brother at this.

[Kevin Clancy]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[John Lovett]

We were talking about how do I pick topics. Yeah, I.

[Kevin Clancy]

That's what I mean. Like, I do it the same way. I used to write blogs. It was. If it strikes me, I do it. But if you want to build, like, a YouTube channel, it's like. Well, I liked when he was talking about Game of Thrones yesterday, but I don't like him talking about Caitlin Clark today. So it's like, just talk about one thing. I don't want to do that.

[John Lovett]

No, that's so true. We noticed that, like, if you do a. A YouTube about, like, Marjorie Taylor Green, a million hits. If you do, like, some really smart, thoughtful thing, strategy with like, a really smart person, nobody cares.

[Jack McCarthy]

Dead. But then.

[Kevin Clancy]

And then it encourages you to do the dumb. And then it's a vicious cycle.

[Jack McCarthy]

Sucks. My. We kind of saw this the other day, I, I cannot stress enough how, like, firmly I believe I'm anti analytics in the sense, like in, in a kind of the sports sense too. But like, we were talking about early days bar and how I don't even think any of us, including Dave, had.

[John Lovett]

Access to the back end.

[Jack McCarthy]

To the back end to like, like.

[Kevin Clancy]

How many pages to know what numbers.

[Jack McCarthy]

Did I, I. Dave obviously could have found if he wanted to. He did not check it regularly. And I think had we done that, had we gotten invested in like, well, the, the clicks go up when we do this. It's a completely different. This, this whole thing never happens. We become a guess that ass carousel.

[Kevin Clancy]

Right?

[Jack McCarthy]

Right. And nothing.

[Kevin Clancy]

Never talk about anything.

[Jack McCarthy]

So like, or at least in like early stages of stuff, I, I, you can't look at the numbers and like to do what you like.

[John Lovett]

Facebook jerked all those companies around, right? Like they changed the algorithm.

[Kevin Clancy]

You get like, the algorithm is, is the worst thing that's ever happened to, like, the world, period. Because there used to be like, just some meritocracy of, like, people would go to Barstoolsports.com and hit enter and go there because they liked it, because we talked about whatever we wanted. And now it's like, I with you that you shouldn't. But it's like, if you don't play by the rules, you ain't going anywhere. You are not building, you know, any sort of, of company, any sort of channel. And so it's like, I don't want to give into this, but you almost have to. So it's like, you know, it's almost. You need to be like, financially secure or do a Patreon or something where it's just like, I know that I'm set. My audience appreciates me. I'm gonna do it.

[John Lovett]

This is my business.

[Kevin Clancy]

If you have to play with, with Zuck and Tik Tok and all that, boy, what a, what a move that was by Trump, huh?

[John Lovett]

Which one?

[Kevin Clancy]

Just getting Tik Tok unbanned in like 45 seconds. Starting it however many years ago. And then that, that, that notification saying, due to the efforts of President Donald Trump, I was like this.

[Jack McCarthy]

They just dip your cap.

[John Lovett]

They kind of, they manufactured a crisis. They cut off their own service. Tik Tok. Did they. They gave him the setup. He knocked it down. Stockton, Malone.

[Kevin Clancy]

God, crazy.

[John Lovett]

Yeah.

[Kevin Clancy]

It's all a game, man. Well, I think you guys are. It was, It's a good first step to recognize, you know, what a lot of people. I think it's just about acknowledging what other people think and feel and like, trying to appeal to that, you know, how.

[Jack McCarthy]

How much doom is there? Like, because, I mean, at the end, it was a shocking election. And, you know, now that I don't even know if shocking is the right word, but it went further. Right. Than I think most people expected.

[John Lovett]

It was a. Yeah. A thorough ass whooping.

[Kevin Clancy]

Yeah.

[Jack McCarthy]

Now, completely agreed. Still, it was more or less 50. 50. Right.

[John Lovett]

Popular. About 50.

[Jack McCarthy]

So you gotta, like, you gotta get down, but you can't get that down.

[Kevin Clancy]

Yeah. It's like we still had 80 million people who are on our side.

[John Lovett]

You want to throw the baby out with the bath water. Right? Like, and this is an important thing. Like. Like you're not a genius when you win. You're not an idiot when you lose. Like, you got to change some things, but you have to be introspective and honest about your up, you know? Like, that's all I want the Democratic Party to do. Just, like, talk honestly about why we. Where we sucked. Yeah, we'll see.

[Kevin Clancy]

And you think we'll do it?

[John Lovett]

I think we're trying. I mean, like, we're trying to have people on our show talk about, like.

[Kevin Clancy]

Yeah, I think it's just a time thing. It's like, there's so many. It's too fresh. You got egos.

[John Lovett]

Yeah.

[Kevin Clancy]

Too much power, too much money. But you give it a year, a couple years, maybe an election, two elections where people go like, oh, we were. We were. We were gonna. Went down the wrong path, then course correct. And then. Or hopefully you just get a candidate.

[John Lovett]

You know, someone to inspire you.

[Kevin Clancy]

Yeah, yeah, we'll see.

[John Lovett]

We'll see.

[Kevin Clancy]

Thanks, brother.

[John Lovett]

Thanks for having me.

[Kevin Clancy]

Yeah, man.

[Jack McCarthy]

Thank you very much, man. This is a blast.

[Kevin Clancy]

I appreciate you giving. It's a pretty long one. I appreciate the time. Sa.

[Jack McCarthy]

Sa.

[Kevin Clancy]

Sa.